On this week’s episode of Fully Equipped, GOLF’s Jonathan Wall and Ryan Barath are joined by Gene Parente of Golf Laboratories and Kris McCormack of True Spec Golf to reveal what they learned from breaking down the grip builds of top Tour players and talk the incredible run TaylorMade is on to kick off the 2024 season. The episode then concludes with an exclusive interview featuring Scotty Cameron’s Senior Director of Putter Research and Development, Austie Rollinson.
—
Thanks to our official sponsor Golf Pride and their new Reverse Taper putter grip.
It’s the most crucial split-second in golf. You can’t worry about if the ball is going in the hole or not – if you haven’t worried about what’s happening at impact. That’s what led Golf Pride to design a grip to ensure you’re set up to succeed in that split-second. The very moment where the putt is decided. With REVERSE TAPER technology to ensure you have a more consistently square face at impact. A grip that’s most impactful, during the most impactful split-second in golf.
These new grips are now available. Visit https://Golfpride.com to learn more.
—
🎯 Subscribe: https://www.youtube.com/@FullyEquippedGolf
🛒 Shop Fairway Jockey: https://bit.ly/3StB45F
Together with Tour Validated, Fully Equipped is now home the home for all GOLF’s gear insights and new releases. Hit #Subscribe & #HitTheBell so you don’t miss out on any new videos!
Instagram ► https://instagram.com/fullyequippedgolf
Twitter ► https://https://twitter.com/Fully_Equipped
Facebook ► https://www.facebook.com/tourvalidated
TikTok ► https://www.tiktok.com/@tourvalidated
[Music]
and welcome back to fully equipped jwall
Sero killer RB you know I would tell you
that Uncle Jean is here but
unfortunately as we record this podcast
he noticed that there is an uh epic
Sunset I believe was what he said and he
has now disappeared literally
disappeared I’m wondering if he’s going
to come back in with pants on oh he’s
back he’s back no wine cheese I got my
pants on I got my pants on did you guys
without
me
[ __ ] oh you got to look at your phones
oh my God we have to share this with our
uh look at that thing come on look at
your phones right now it was it was well
worth it Jean you’re the you’re duck
from the what was it the movie up where
he’s like the dog the dog that has the
talking collar and he’s like my name is
Doug
squirrel he just giving something shiny
in another Direction pretty it is a
pretty good Sunset I I got it Adit all
right well I’ll show it let’s uh see if
you can see it there we go come on
that’s a pretty
D and you know what if you’re listening
to us on Spotify or apple or or any of
your podcast mediums sucks to be you
should be on YouTube it doesn’t it
doesn’t suck to be you just go over to
the Floy C YouTube page Floy C golf on
YouTube and uh and watch us and you can
actually catch the picture that I showed
from my phone of the sunset there’s
there’s my way to get get you to watch
us on YouTube over the Pacific cu the
sunsets are pretty epic this time of
year yeah as i’ to say they got to be
pretty good um all right got a lot to
talk about this week just all want to
check in with everybody how we
doing doing all right I I’m just waiting
for golf season this is unbelievable I
cannot believe how long I saw you out
there RB taking some wax yeah it was
like I don’t know well I’m trying to do
the conversion here I want to say like
18 to 20 M hour winds in the face on a
driving range so you’re just eating dirt
the whole time which is kind of fun um
but I think I swear I swear that it’s
supposed to get better this weekend
we’ll see what happens RB uh in inform
me what is this thing you call Golf
season I I I’m I’m unfamiliar with it
please uh in got to be very triggering
for like it’s usually between the
Masters and the uh November let’s call
it early November you can get some nice
days in November but I mean they sunsets
at 4:30 but it’s nice days um so that
that would be what we would
traditionally in the Northeast call A A
golf season Jean um okay so yeah golf
well there’s there’s there’s non-golfing
days those are days that rains other
than that it’s pretty much game on the
rest of the time so just just being an
[ __ ] over here with yeah we’re we’re
already mid 90s and in uh in Arizona I
here in Scottsdale and Phoenix area
mid90s sun and uh we are gearing up for
summer in April no big
deal yeah you want to know who else is
hot right now Scotty shuffler Nelly
Corda my gosh I mean seriously the the
golf that those two are playing and
somebody brought up a really incredible
idea so this week is the Zurich which
has become a team event what and what
the PJ tour should have done and credit
to those I I just saw it in passing on
social media Scotty should have been a
late entrant and they should have paired
him with Nelly to see if they could win
it that could have been one hell of an
idea you want to generate some real
interest there go that’ been amazing you
know but they’re they’re playing they’re
playing on another planet right now from
everybody else in the golf world I I I
read something interesting that Norman
said that you know sheffer’s winning
because all the live golfers and I went
back and looked at this last week’s
tournament and his 19 under would have
won four no I all five year previous
years so you know ult golf’s a weird
game where it’s you I mean you know you
take weather out of the equation so for
five years you kind of normalize that
but you got to shoot a number you know
and he shot 19
under the point being we’re seeing
something exceptional here regardless of
the competition and he didn’t Wilt at
the Masters when he had the best in the
world coming after him so he’s just he’s
shooting numbers and beating everybody
else and it’s it’s really amaz the
amount of chip-ins this guy has is just
otherworldly I mean it’s just it’s
anytime he has a Club in his hand he’s
dangerous you know I mean it’s like
you’re going to see something
potentially amazing happen it’s it’s
wild to watch I think one of the most
interesting elements of like the whole
thing and it’s actually the same with
with Nelly as well because if you I mean
it is like there there are a lot of
parallels they both play ta made gear
I’m sure they’re ecstatic over there in
Carl’s Bad somewhere um but it’s the
fact
that they’re both have had these win
streaks on I know Scotty didn’t win came
second but extremely different golf
courses Nelly won a match play event U
they’ve they’ve played in Wind they’ve
played in the desert they’ve played
everywhere you know to go from the
Masters wide open blasted anywhere not
anywhere but like you know it’s it’s a
it’s a comfortable driving golf course
in general um and then go to go to
Harbortown which I saw last year for the
first time and it is
like you always hear it like TV doesn’t
do it justice TV literally doesn’t do it
justice it is insane like the the how
tight it is and he still just went there
and won and it’s like this guy’s kind of
winning everywhere like ball striking
and short game is going to win you a lot
of tournaments and like he’s just
demonstrating that same with Nelly I
think the stat I saw was when she hits
the Fairway she hits the green 87% of
the time that is a freaking big number
folks that is a big big big number big
number okay like it’s it’s it’s just
like it’s unreal golf it’s it’s pretty
cool to see like you know I think couple
times earlier this year it’s like what
are we going to talk like what is what
is going to happen like what is who is
going to take off on the men’s tour like
the women’s tour like where is like
where is this parody and because I mean
we saw some not like less than
well-known winners early in the season
and Scotty sheffer’s like look out boys
and it’s great to see it’s really cool
to see yeah it it is really fun to see
because we haven’t seen a player
dominate like this since
tiger and you know Scotty Sheffer is not
Tiger Woods to be clear he doesn’t have
he doesn’t have the global the global
reach um he you know Scotty didn’t have
his hello world moment but it is still
really cool to see a guy just go out
there and just lap the field and then
when he gets even when he when he shot
63 during the during the third round and
everybody else just goes oh God not
again it’s that it’s that feeling it’s
it’s deflating like I’m sure if you were
out there in your tour pro like all the
all the energy goes goes out the window
because you’re like okay we’re gonna
we’re all playing for a second and
that’s exactly what would happen when
tiger would do that is everybody else is
like man I I don’t have that and he’s
just he’s so good I mean I was seeing
stats on on Scotty and not to take
anything away from Nelly because what
what she’s done to win five in a row on
the LPGA tour with with that quality out
there is absolutely insane but again
there’s I mean we’re we’re biased
because we spend a lot more time
focusing on the PJ tour but I did see
that I think he’s like a stroke and a
half better off the te than Zander
schafle who’s number two I mean a stroke
and a half off the T on the PGA tour
that’s massive and he it’s it’s um I was
talking to Adrien Reed felt when I did
the story on Scotty’s driver testing get
into Taylor Made Qi 10 and he said and
this is something that that still sticks
with me from from our interview he said
what makes Scotty so dangerous is that
he’s not only accurate off the tea he’s
long and he said that trying to keep up
with that combination over the course of
18 holes is so difficult that a lot of
guys just they fall apart at some point
and and I believe that he’s just he’s so
good he doesn’t make any mistakes takes
off the te when he hits it that I mean
what are you going to do if a guy if I
mean Tiger Woods at least like to to
Tiger’s credit he was an incredible
escape artist that guy that guy could
get yeah up and down from anywhere
Scotty doesn’t have to worry about that
because he’s so freaking accurate off
the T from that point forward he’s so
good with his irons you’re just like I
man what like what am I gonna have to do
I’m have to throw up a 63 today and hope
that Scotty misses some putts but oh by
the way he doesn’t have a a misbehaving
putter anymore he’s got putter that
actually makes putt so yeah he’s he’s
about as close to unbeatable and this is
going to sound crazy and I’m sure the
people out there listening they are
going to be like you’re you’re nuts I
really think he has a chance to do the
Grand Slam this year who else who else
is in who else is in the same who else
is in the same realm as Scotty Sheffer
right now I don’t think anybody is I
think he’s so good I think he I think
he’s going to go to the PGA a golf
course that Valhalla is not a scary golf
course I think he’s going to go to
Valhalla and I think he’s going to lap
the field and then I think he’s going to
go to Pinehurst and again he’s so good
off the te and he doesn’t make a lot of
mistakes Jee pointed it out so good up
and down around the green I think he’s
going to win at Pinehurst and I think
he’s going to go to the open CH
Championship with three of the four I’m
calling it here now Scotty sheffler will
win the first three he will go to the
open with a chance for the Grand Slam
not the tiger slam but the legit Grand
Slam there’s there’s one variable here
that we have not accounted for
that Meredith Sheffer pushing out a baby
yep and New Perspective kicking in um
like you know that is a that is
something that is you know going to
happen I mean they seem very as very
grounded as a couple um I don’t I don’t
know anything about them so very much
just what you see from the outside um
but you know they seem like they know
they support each other very well and
you know Scotty’s got himself I don’t
know nearly 20 million bucks this year
so I’m sure there’s a few ways you could
you know find some help and find a few
find your time I’m sure I’m sure they
can find some help yeah I’m sure they’ll
be okay but it is it is just one of
those like interesting things right like
he talks so much about um like his faith
to his family and all those all of those
things and so to to see what that will
do to his golf game and you know I don’t
I don’t think I mean I I’m a dad of two
girls and like it didn’t change my golf
game it’s the same not that it was great
or bad before but it’s kind of the same
so I don’t really expect a man that just
really focuses on fundamentals and and
takes things pretty simple is going to
is going to have his golf game really
change that much I I I remember a quote
I can’t remember the Tour player but I
remember the quote it was like tiger his
peak one of the guys who was competing
against him said The only things that
are going to slow this guy down are a
bad marriage or a bad back and he nailed
both
yeah it’s it’s it’s uh it’s it’s it’s
kind of life but I you know I I go back
to after he won his first Masters I
remember the week after we were talking
about it we’re like where’s Scott where
where’s Sheffer gonna be at the end of
the year and we’re like he’s probably a
oneandone you know for Majors type thing
he just
didn’t he’s so unassuming in his game at
that
point you this game is so incredibly
difficult and to operate on that high
level and to do so for that long without
slipping without you know it it it it
we’re watching something historical
without a doubt and it it really is it’s
really fascinating to watch and to JW’s
point I I I wouldn’t bet against him
he’s going to be the Hands-On favorite
in the remaining three
tournaments and it’s kind of you know
the interest part is how bad does he
want it does he want it tiger
wise or does he want it or does he want
it Rory wise you know he’s Uber
competitive he’s Uber competitive I he
wants it way more than people realize
yeah he he he my only criticism of
sheffler and this is totally selfish
from the game of golf he’s too
unassuming he’s too um he just he’s he’s
so kind of genuine and humble that’s his
upbringing you can’t change that no I
know no it’s it’s I’m not criticizing
him as a man I’m saying from a there’s a
reason that uh I think viewership was
down he’s your Classic Country Club golf
pro kind of guy not you know in this you
know in this in this age where we’re
looking for an edge and everything like
that I’m say you need a mix of like
Bryson and Brooks kka If Scot Scotty was
the mix of Bryson and Brooks yes yes
he’d be he’d be just he’d be off the
charts and and I I I think hopefully
what I’m hoping is that it’s just raw
talent and winning will eventually you
know win people over and um that and and
it’s it’s no criticism against him as a
man or a golfer it’s just simply the
media age that we live in you know
you’ve got to have an edge one way or
another to to get people to tune in
basically
one one way that he definitely has had
an edge recently is on the greens and
you know for the our listeners out there
another way that they can find an
advantage on the greens is uh is by
giving one of these new reverse taper
grips from Golf Pride to try oh I got
you there um because the thing is the
the moment before impact is the most
critical part of putting because it
controls face angle and face angle has
such an important impact on where the
ball is going and with reverse taper
what it does is it completely literally
flips the design of a grip upside down
and puts the smaller portion in your top
hand and the larger portion in your
bottom hand that’s why as the name says
it is a reverse taper grip this grip
comes in three different shapes and two
different sizes it has a round grip
which is universally popular for a lot
of different putting techniques a pistol
style grip which has a much larger
pistol pistol handle in the top hand
which is a little bit flatter so it kind
of really fits in into your palm for for
players who are traditional um we’ll
say backhand low or not um you know if
you’re right-handed it’s right-and low
okay look we talking right-handed
golfers here um and then there’s a flat
which is great which has a more oval
upper style which works for a lot of
golfers who prefer more of a parallel
Style putting grip so if you’re kind of
more pal to pom or you’re just kind of
offset by a slight amount the the flat
offers a really good option for players
who in that style and again they come in
medium and a large style that’s a whole
like Seinfeld thing we could get on that
in a minute but we we’ll just stick to
that um they are available now in stores
kind of anywhere you can find them and
you can find them at golf pride.com big
again Scotty doesn’t use one of the
things he uses one of the pro style cord
grips but he’s one of the best players
in the world if you are struggling with
your putting and you are looking for
something that is going to offer you
more control and test better versus a
standard uh parallel style putter grip
at impact give the verse taper a try go
out to golf pride.com to learn more and
you can order them
now there we go uh before we keep going
uh shout out to Jay who is our Masters
winner he won the the Cobra season
opener driver you know some people ask
like why don’t you why don’t you shout
out the or like tag the people who won
like a lot of them don’t want to be
tagged
like they they just would prefer to win
these these
giveaways in peace and not getting
bombarded by other people not have
people blow him up and trying to get it
yeah yeah Pro probably that but Jay
actually uh won a cobra season opener
driver from us and went to the Masters
in the same week not bad oh dope nice
yeah yeah Prett pretty good week for Jay
so anyway congrats to him on winning on
winning that driver um all right so I
want to still keep it in the in the the
Scotty realm because I have a question
and and I want to get specifically I
want to get Chris’s take
here so I would say if we’re if we’re
looking we’re we’re now almost four full
months into the tour
season and I would say and you guys can
disagree with me if you want but I would
say that that nobody has had a better
start to the season than Taylor
man and I I don’t really know if it’s
close now a Titleist I will point this
out because not a lot of of press has
been made um on this with the exception
of titles you know banging the drum but
titles has won 16 of the first
18 events on the PGA tour this season
that’s a really really good clip it’s
yeah golf thank you golf ball Ti golf
ball I I think that’s that’s really good
now
Titleist it’s used it’s been used by
like 70% of the field to start the year
golf ball so you know they odds of of
doing anything from week to week is is
considerably higher than other
manufacturers who have golf balls out on
on the PJ tour but Taylor Made my
goodness so they have Nelly Corda they
have Scotty Sheffer and then also last
week they announced that they were
signing 15-year-old miles Russell to an
nil deal and Miles Russell goes out and
makes the cut on the corn fairy tour
becomes the youngest ever to ever do it
at 15 years and five months
um and it just makes we say really
quickly I know we’re gonna get Taylor me
in a second but listen if you’re a
grinding kft Tour player and no offense
I know you are a fantastic golfer you’re
a professional golfer at a level that I
will never reach but if you are out
there and some 15-year-old kid comes out
there and kicks your butt you should be
banned from playing for like two months
be like listen guys You Had Your Shot
this 15-year-old kid who’s like 55 and
140 pounds just came out here and
whooped your tushes all right you know
what you got to wait till till June till
you get to teed up again all right we’re
going to let some new crop come in here
and see what happens because
honestly like you are full ass grown men
who just got your butt kicked and you
are Pros he is competing against 13 and
16 year olds week to week and yes he’s a
great player and golf is one of those
sports that you are not playing against
other people you are playing against the
golf course and the elements which is a
really cool component of the whole bit
but still you know he’d kick my butt I’m
just telling you I know that’s a fact
I’m not going to stand here and be like
oh no he’s not going to kick my butt no
he he would smoke me all right and if
you are a a touring professional who is
trying to make it to the PJ tour and
some 15-year-old comes out and kicks
your butt how do you go home to your
partner and be like well sorry to make
the cut this week but uh the kid from
the high school just top 20 sorry like
how do you explain that know it’s just
like anyways sorry yes Taylor mate has
been on a rooll and this little kid this
not little kid sorry miles um this this
Young Junior player gets to play this
week too because he finished in the top
20 that’s pretty sick yeah it’s it’s
it’s pretty amazing and and all all
credit to miles for the incredible week
but it it makes me wonder and this is
this you know I think a lot of it is
Maybe recency by because last week I I
did a story for golf.com I I chatted
with David AES who’s the CEO president
CEO for Taylor mid and it was more along
the lines of like what’s a what’s a
master’s win worth to Taylor Made and he
mentioned that there is there’s a
multiplier that happens and they get
more interest and more conversions more
conversions meaning sales when a guy
like Scotty wins more interest in the
Putter and and the golf clubs in his bag
but Chris it makes me wonder like what
what is what is this run that Taylor
made’s been on what is that having is
that having any sort of an effect on on
like true spec sales are you getting
more interest because I feel like like
like true Spec’s probably a really good
barometer for like people out there
wondering like do people really care
about this do do they do they really
care that Deli and Scotty are are
winning so much and specifically with
like qi1 does that translate to more
sales or interest at true spec in in the
fitting base so I mean interest
absolutely and you get people coming in
and specifically asking for product by
name they want to test it they want to
see it they want to hit it see what it
does for them does it translate
necessarily into more sales not
necessarily I mean since we have a
fitting approach that is brand agnostic
we fit the player not the product we
don’t care who makes it or what it is um
I I don’t know if it necessarily
correlates directly to more sales
because I mean we’re going to put the
tailor made qi1 lineup in play you know
in the majority of driver Fairway hybrid
type of fitting scenarios and if that’s
the one that performs best for the
player that’s the recommendation we’re
making I mean regardless if it’s
performing well on any tour or not if it
performs for my player that’s where the
recommendations going I mean I will say
this crop of drivers like we’ve talked
about
previously is fantastic and they are
performing and they do show up in that
fitting environment and I mean we are
moving quite a few parts uh in that
fitting environment and we’re seeing
quite a few parts move out the door uh
from from Fairway jockey as well our
online retailer so it’s there’s
definitely a buzz people are asking
questions people want to test it so yeah
it’s uh success on tours plural multiple
tours uh means more people inquiring and
at least being curious if it’s right for
their game or
not you mentioned something interesting
there Chris and I think it’s it’s it’s
really important is like there’s a
difference between like the custom
fitting environment and the way people
purchase um but you know if people are
looking to purchase online a great place
they can do it which you did mention is
Fairway jockey.com it offers the world’s
most extensive collection of aftermarket
shafts and custom equipment built to
tour level specifications and they offer
the lowest prices on custombuilt clubs
up to 20% less than the average Club
fitting quote And for those fully
equipped listeners you can use code
fully equipped for 10% off and that gets
you you know up to 30% off against the
leading Club fitting company when we’re
talking about ordering clubs custom
clubs custom built to your specs and the
other thing you know Jonathan you
mentioned the Masters driver when
golfers are looking for these limited
edition drops from all kinds of
companies Fairway jockey does have them
they do and did have the master I don’t
if they still have them right now this
is all you know it’s dated whenever
you’re listening to this um but they do
carry a lot of these small batch and
limited releases so again you go to
Fairway jockey.com use code fully
equipped take an 10% off uh your next
purchase and check out all kinds of cool
gear there as well look at that snuck
that one in there but it is true you I
this is not part of the read anymore but
I will say from my experience working in
like just like the big box retail or
like online when people would just like
purchase things and you’d see kind of
the fluctuations right Malon sold a
whole bunch of golf clothing when Jason
day was at the Masters seen a lot of
like it this it hit up in search Guy um
Colin landforce on Instagram great
follow for all kinds of golf stuff and
just general like cool stuff in general
talking about product and whatever U
looked at their search like search
Trends and all those things and like
those things matter like they do matter
to Consumers who are curious about
product and are going to purchase
because they have seen them or they’ve
heard about them or any of those things
and I think that is where I’ve seen
players win on you know it’s the old
saying I’m sure Je I think Jean’s
probably said it before talking about
like golf like when um you know his
experience in the industry as well is
like what wins on Sunday sells on Monday
like that is true that is true
especially when not just for drivers but
I think a lot of times we saw it with
Putters especially with Scotty I know
Jonathan you wrote about that as well
you covered that you talked about uh
with uh with David there it is it is
like especially with the putter two like
driver is very unique because it is like
a fitting thing it’s a performance thing
like feel and alignment and all of these
like elements like you don’t have to
like hit it 300 yards to feel really
excited about a new Putter and I think
that’s where players are coming in
they’re like oh I want one of those cuz
it’s like 300 bucks instead of $800
right so um there is value to winning
there is 100% value to winning um but in
the fitting Bay when performance matters
it comes down to that individual every
single time but I still think it leads
to Trends because I’m sure you’ve seen
it as well Chris whether it be shafts or
not necessarily grips but like shafts
like new stuff comes out or certain
fairywood or like a loft is available in
a certain Club that’s not available in
other clubs you see runs from Fitters
where they will do a lot of them more
often and it doesn’t and like it’s
because they’re working and they have a
run of players who come in that are
fitting a certain demographic whether it
be high swing speed players or lower
swing speed players like they filter
into these products that just do very
well in the fitting Bay and an example
like the Q10 Max like it it’s freaking
stable like it is it is a crazy good
stable driver and credit tailor made for
that like slow motion commercial that
they do like it’s a good example of like
showing that kind of thing that like
most companies wouldn’t really
show I I I I I I’m going to offer a
counterargument here especially in
relation to Sheffer I I think that uh
when you have mega success you have
tiger at his Peak effect in that there
you know tiger didn’t move the needle on
a lot of Nike equipment during his Peak
and I heard this comment so many times
that guy could win with anything like
he’s so hot he’s so good he could win
with anything and I I I think that I
mean I I agree with what everyone’s
saying yes brand awareness absolutely
and everything but I think you can
actually become too successful to matter
that you are so successful that people
look at you as otherworldly and you know
one of the one of the points of golf
equipment
is especially with the tour is
aspirational that we’re all looking up
the pyramid but when that when that
aspirational point is literally a North
star you’re like oh I’m not like that I
mean that’s just crazy what he’s doing
and that was kind of tiger at his Peak
and there simply wasn’t enough credit
given to his equipment and I know
because I was testing a lot of it and
working with it man those Nike Engineers
were putting in a lot of long hours to
make sure that he had the best equipment
the best balls Etc but it wasn’t
translating just because he was so
incredibly successful there was a
Detachment from this uh otherwise what
I’ll call delusional state that you know
we think that by following the tour
that’s going to you know affect our game
and make us a better player and so it’s
just interesting if he wins the Grand
Slam I I I I I see almost an inverse
effect like a dulling because the guy is
otherworldly at that point and so nobody
at that point nobody really cares what
he has in his hands and what he’s
hitting just because he’s doing things
that even other tour players simply
can’t
do you know I I go go ahead Chris
because your point is probably more than
mine better than
mine well I was I was just kind of
piggybacking off a jean got my my wheels
turning a little bit and I think about
like okay number one players in the
world how much do they move the needle
are they a good barometer and I started
thinking about specifically like Justin
Rose Justin Rose the 2018 2019 number
one player in the world and you look
at okay he’s number one player in the
world and he was tailor made staffer and
I mean essentially once you get to that
point there’s only one direction you can
go from there and it begs the question
like okay so how much stock do you put
in this player now that they’ve
essentially peaked how long do they stay
there before they start to Trend and now
you get that point of diminishing
returns and you know do the viewers look
at that as something that is hey he’s
playing this well because of equipment
or is this a hot streak that inevitably
is going to fade and they fall by the
wayside as I mean it wasn’t long after
Rosy’s number one world ranking that
Taylor Made was like Hey only place
you’re gonna go now is uh down and we
saw him jump ship and go to hanma so
it’s like uh and how well did he play
with hanma and how long did he hang on
to that number one there’s a lot more to
that story that I wish we he won with
Hana though he won at Tory Pines I will
always say that like you know they get
they will they will always be like he
wanted Tory Pines because the because of
the putter in his bag
yeah oh did he only play with did he
only play with a sputter just a sputter
that
was yeah where were you on that one jean
no
see show with the with the with the when
Tori goes down would watch that 14
Putters he missed it you missed it was
during Coachella you were uh don’t don’t
worry about it it was Coachella week too
much red wine sunsets and yeah don’t
worry about it the real the people yeah
people always give Hana like crap or
like they give Justin Rose crap and they
say like they killed Hana whatever um
you know that’s me editorializing
obviously it’s my what I hear hear
people say all the time um but the re
the real brand killer we we never really
talk about was Nick price Nick price
would join a brand and that would die
within a year like you go back and look
at the the the brands that Nick price
was sponsored by post being like world
number one it was like Nick price is our
new sigy the company’s gone in a year
like you you could it happened like
three or four times you could it
literally happened like three or four
times so you know and then he ended up
which is like going back to the tiger
comment which I think is is is very
interesting is like towards the end of
his career he was still playing very
well um it was kind of the transition to
the prov1 so like he was kind of caught
in that like era there but and I’ll
always remember this from like a what’s
in the bag article was he was using uh
blades designed by impact Technologies
which for those who don’t know was Tom
ste’s company out of Fort which became
Nike golf which is now art well not that
it is Artisan golf like they started
something completely new but now Artis
is something that is completely
different and it’s the same people that
made the clubs for Tiger Woods and all
the other Nike athletes and not not just
Tiger Woods so let’s like be clear about
that but they’ve found this very
interesting niche because of like the
the story behind that versus the Nike
branding towards golf clubs which I
think is very different from the way
that they as genan has said multiple
times before like they are kind of
considered like a fashion company very
high-end athletic like athletic fashion
company if you want to call it that but
it didn’t really that marketing never
worked with with golf clubs but the same
people are behind them that they are at
artisan and like you know they’re
creating great great product like
wonderful product so to say like you
know to your point like what moves the
needle like is Artis ever going to be ta
like a tailor made no but they don’t
want to be like they want to be like
their they want to be their thing where
they make the best product not TL
doesn’t make great product but like they
want to be like what they are because
they are a custom shop so it is it is
kind of one of those weird like things
where it’s like you know it’s it’s like
if if a car company died and then the
engineers in that car company started
making like small batch supercars
everyone’s like these supercars are sick
what happened to this other companies
well they didn’t they didn’t Market them
right guys like that was the problem
like the people behind the car were
still great smart people so um there’s
there’s always that weird like thing
especially when it comes to equipment
and gear nerds and you know all kinds of
stuff so yeah it is I do think it’s an
interesting question but I have to say
I’m I am not surprised from Chris’s
response um I’m also not surprised by
the success of the qi1 product I know
that that con morea was switched
recently from a SIM into to qi1 and we
we saw it I mean I still remember Jean
and I sitting down for dinner at his Pad
pouring over the
numbers and we were both kind of
chuckling because it’s like these
numbers right is this driver really that
good off the toe like zero zero distance
loss and then it’s like this one
actually gained distance like two and a
half yards so we started to see some
very very interesting Trends some
positive Trends with the tailor made
drivers after you know stealth didn’t do
all that b but the stealth two product
in my opinion that it it did fall off
from from the rest of the pack when I
say the rest of the pack I mean the rest
of the oems yeah and you really saw them
come back with vengeance in uh in year
three for carbon so credit to them but
yeah I I would I would agree with Chris
though I think especially in today’s age
where fitting is such a an important
component of the purchase you know for
$600 driver and we’re not even talking
we’re not even throwing in the custom
shafts at that point so even more than
that you you don’t want to go in blind
and buy a driver so I I do I do see the
benefits and again true Spec’s great
because they they don’t really care
they’re they’re you know they’re brand
agnostic so um anyway I I do think that
it was a fun chat there on Scotty and
and whether he has any poll on you know
selling golf clubs but let’s let’s get
into one more topic before we do our
interview and this is going straight off
of something that this is like the most
gear nerd thing that RB has ever done
since he’s been here and I love it so he
started asking around for all the grip
specs for the top players in the world
from from the different brands and he’s
been posting them on golf.com ARB you’ve
done ping so far in and titlist correct
me if I’m wrong yeah yeah and I have I
have spec from my friend Mr Johnny
Wonder at Callaway which will be going
out and then uh he’s gonna be bringing
him out yeah yeah we’re just waiting for
um we’re just waiting for Taylor Made
yeah you guys we’ve had the conversation
I know they’re working on it I know it’s
just kind of one of those things they
want to get all the players including um
Nelly Corda as well it’s kind of like
one of players you’ve asked for uh same
with Brooks um we don’t spend a lot we
don’t spend enough time talking about
grips and I do think it’s it’s a uh it’s
one of this was not by the way this was
not because it was like weird sponsored
by golf prde I was just like digging
into this because I was like I started
getting real curious because I see all
this every time I walk into a tour van
they have this like little library of
like all these players specs and it’s
like this is kind of interesting and
Shipley too which I thought was
fascinating ping and posted about it he
did his own damn grips at the Masters in
the Ping truck so that’s like that’s
pretty cool like some guys do that they
like to have that control I’m kind of
one of those weirdos that likes to do it
so I that’s why I started digging in
because I know there’s some there’s some
interesting ones out there so why don’t
we get into the interesting ones and
maybe some some interesting maybe some I
don’t I guess yeah Trends some things
that you picked up on why while looking
at the grip builds of the best players
in the world I would say that one thing
that is um golfers and golfers tend to
uh default to what they have on their
clubs but there was more midsize than I
expected now I know that we could make
the argument for golfers are athletes
and bigger athletes have been attracted
to golf like leig and Windham although
Windam is not like a huge guy but I’m
pretty sure he’s using them I got to go
back and look at it but I’m pretty sure
he was using midsize as well um and so
it’s it goes to show that like players
are looking for different ways that
their Club feel I think Tom Kim uses
different grips on his his irons versus
his wedges so he’s like me I like a rib
grip on my irons I don’t necessarily
always use them on my wedges I
definitely don’t use them on my woods so
there’s always this like give take of
like what’s what’s working for certain
players you got players like guys at
ping who are just like you know Bubba’s
always the ridiculous one example like
he’s just using baseball basb fenale is
another one they’re enormous 13 and 12
13 wraps underneath the lower and 12
underneath the upper the one thing that
I used I really liked seeing and I was I
tried to I explain it so like every
article it’s not there’s a template oh
there is a template now but uh what I
was trying to explain to people is like
trying to explain core size is so
difficult because this is the thing that
golfers don’t realize when they’re
ordering certain shafts and we used to
see this with like the Matrix some of
the matrix product like back in the day
would be like um 6 so we’re talking
shaft outside diameter see we’re down
the wormhole in nerdiness now folks
shaft outside diameter at the butt end
of like a Matrix tp6 HD which was like
the very very highend shaft that they
offered it was like the first like,
Shaft blah blah blah um
it was like 650 so you put a standard
600 grip on a 650 well it feels like it
has five wraps of tape on it so you
someone pick up their driver and they go
why is this grip like funky it’s like
well first of all I can stretch it for
you so it’s going to look different but
it’s going to be a different size but
it’s going to feel a different firmness
will zorus as well as another couple of
players are playing 580 core grips on
what are mostly cons mostly 600 chaffs
so now you’ve got a grip that feels like
it has two wraps of tape on it
underneath it it it feels a little
thinner so it gets a little firmer and
then if you put an extra wrap of tape
under it now you’ve got a firmer grip
that’s actually feels like three wraps
so it’s only got two wraps or one wrap
so there’s all of these different
elements that come together but the
midsize thing to me is the biggest one
because I think the way that players are
less risty now and the technique that’s
that’s um trained into the modern golf
swing that players have gone to a larger
size versus seeing players go to smaller
sizes and
and I it’s it’s totally it’s not it’s
not dependent on hand size this is one
of the biggest things that I think
people don’t think about you’re someone
who and I know we are an audio medium
but if you’re watching this on YouTube
I’ll do I’m also going to be showing
this on you are someone who grips in
your fingers and more along the the kind
of the the top end between like your
fingers and the top of your palm you’re
most likely going to use be using a
smaller grip because of where it’s
situated but as that grip moves from the
kind of insertion point where it would
touch your hand and it goes more towards
the like the the base or like the the
kind of really palmy meaty part of your
hand at the whatever you would call that
underneath your your pinky finger like
someone like Bryson who gets that thing
right across his his hand rather than
into his fingers and you’re someone
who’s using less hand action well you
can use basically any grip size you want
like use something that’s like
comfortable versus trying to like that’s
that’s where the grip size thing is so
dependent on how a player grips and
these f fter players stronger players
are going to these bigger grips and I
think that to me is one of those things
where that seems to be the trend it’s
very there’s I mean not there’s very few
players who are just using one R there
are there are a number of them but most
players are using some sort of there’s a
lot more midsize than I thought
basically is what I thought
and talking about players who are not
like big dudes like fow or Bubba like
just guys who like that style grip
because because they’re just gripping it
and ripping it and that’s what works for
them well so I’ve got a physics theory
behind this and stick with me audience
because this is going to get a little
geeky but we’re already in grip so if
you’re still listening hey you’re into
it yep I’ve got input
too so uh Club head speed is measured in
miles per hour and it’s basically two
points usually the that’s measured to
determine how fast you’re swinging the
one thing that most golfers don’t think
about is you swing on an arc and what I
mean by that is your Club face starts
open ideally it’s square at impact and
then it closes as it comes through that
is defined as closure so even a putter
you pull a putter back because you’re
swinging about yourself you have closure
on a
putter it can be very slight or it can
actually be decent Tiger’s got a decent
amount of closure on his Putter and so
the the club faces closing and it you’re
you’re kind of working the ball the
reason I bring all this up uh Callaway
highlighted this to me years ago and I
think it sums it up for anybody that
follows Golf and follows
swings closure is measured in degre
degrees per
second and they told me this about 10 12
years ago or so they measured Jim furick
and Jim furick had a closure rate of a
th degrees per second which is really
low so it’s now what let’s back up a
second here the best way to hit a golf
ball if you could would be on a pendulum
with zero closure because if you have
zero closure it guarantees the ball’s
going to go dead straight so as that
club face is closing it comes was down
to timing so furick had a closure rate
of a th000 degrees per second Phil
Mickelson a closure rate of 2,000
degrees per second Phil Mickelson had to
be twice as accurate as Jim furick to
hit the same shot now what’s interesting
and I’ve talked to SAS saso McKenzie
about this is he sees no difference in
accuracy between a, and 2000 and my
theory is at 2,000 you have to have the
ability hand eye coordination to to
square that club so you’re only swinging
that way if you can square it due to
your hand eye uh coordination the reason
I bring all this up grips are the one
way to mitigate closure the bigger the
grip size the less you’re going to
rotate it so if you have fast hands or
you’re a tour player and you fear the
snap hook a bigger grip is going to
minimize that and and your Miss is going
to be a block right but it’s less likely
to be a snap hook because it’s less
likely that you’re going to turn that
club over as quickly as a small grip so
there there there is a physics component
to this um that if you look at these
swings RB like you were you know
describing with players and things like
that I think you will see and I talked
to Bryson about this Bryson plays these
big old jumbo grips why Theon up the
snap hook is what he lives in fear of
and so he wants his minimal and he is
well acquainted with closure and
understands it and he understands I mean
think about it think about trying to
close a telephone pole versus a read
right it’s it’s kind of the same thing
the bigger the object is in your hands
the harder it is to rotate it close and
by having more resistance you’re less
likely to snap hook so there’s a
definition
um there’s whether or not the players
truly understand it there’s there’s a
definite cause and effect as far as grip
size and the ability to rotate that
club Chris I know you had a point that
you wanted to to
make uh to again to piggy back off a gan
uh there’s been a lot of studies done
with grips and fitting and fitting and
grips and size and density and texture
and in a 3D environment when you start
measuring the the one thing that can’t
be accounted for is the human element
and it’s
been it’s been said that the
uncontrolled variable of human element
being introduced is where is’s a really
big gray area the the physics component
is very linear as far as the size of the
grip and limiting the rate of rotation
but then you introduce that unknown
variable of human and you have different
people that have different
interpretations of size density and
textures and dependent upon whom the
individual is that is swinging the club
the swing weight of the club the length
of the club how the club feels in their
hand they will take a large grip a small
grip a tacky grip a uh relatively firm
grip and squeeze and release and flip
differently dependent upon the
individual so as we start to get into
grip fitting the very Elementary
approach that we have is if it feels
comfortable in your hand the way that
you swing it then it’s the right answer
because you’ll have players that have
very fast release patterns that you put
a large grip in their hand and then they
subconsciously feel like they can’t
Square the face and you see the rate of
rotation and their release pattern
actually speed up and they start to
introduce more Dynamic Loft and they
start to essentially accelerate how fast
it is that they intentionally release
the club through impact and then you’ll
have people on the other end of the
spectrum so the human element being
introduced into this physiological world
of size density and texture is always an
unknown variable so at the end of the
day like I always default to does it
feel good in your hand yes that’s the
grip you need
I Al I find this so f i find this so
fascinating like just just this whole
conversation about uh like rate of
rotation and like one of the things that
and I know Gene wants to say something
too but that that I always look at
especially now that RB has been
releasing this Treasure Trove of of grip
specs you know I when I was talking to
Tony fow he mentioned you know he could
he could have gone to an oversized
script he plays a midsize Lampkin but he
really likes stretching out that rubber
to give it a very firm feel which is why
he has so many wraps of tape kind of
similar to Bubba Watson they just like a
firmer feel and that’s there there are
two different ways to go about it you
can play a midsize grip and maybe have
fewer wraps but it’s going to feel a bit
squishier at times in your hands
depending on what grip it is or you
could play a standard and try and build
it up to a midsize with the tape wraps
underneath it’s going to stretch out
that rubber and it’s going to make it
feel very firm some guys like that so
again going back to Chris’s point about
like feel being a very important part of
that like that that’s one of the things
that I was looking at is how many guys
are using a standard to building it up
to maybe make it feel like a midsize
versus the guys that are just playing a
straight up midsize with fewer wraps so
because I I me speaking like as a as
just a a hack golfer I like a midsize
grip but I build it up with more wraps
underneath my lower hand to give it a
bit of a firmer feel
so kind of from the fow Camp anyway I
know Jee wanted to say something well I
I was just gonna piggyback on what Chris
said because we’re piggybacking on each
other uh Michael verad Callaway said
something interesting years ago and he’s
he’s subsequently you know kind of
doubled down on it that you know with
shaft testing they see the same thing
that a high laun shaft in some players
will be low launching and a low launch
shaft will be high launching and you
know and and and and I I I uh I had my
own kind of interesting moment at the
PGA show this year so I brought the
robot out with foresight and we were
doing all these demonstrations for their
new GC quad Max and I had all these long
drive guys next to me they were coming
in you know they were averaging 195 to
you know on the highend 220 on ball
speed I mean it was just Bonkers and
they were all playing like weak RS and
you know and Lady ladies Flex shafts and
things like that and you know and I was
sitting there and I was I was joking
with them I’m like you guys have screwed
up the shaft game so badly you know as
far as the the stiffer the the more
consistent and the longer and they’ve
proven with timing it you know you can
actually go more flexible to to hit the
ball further so it it’s uh it
is my world
is uh somewhat contained in that I’m
able to conduct these experiments and
see results but to Chris’s point the
human element what’s so fascinating
about the golf swing is when you’re
handed something subconsciously you do
something else that’s what’s so wild
about it is you you know you’re you’re
being told that this club does this and
so your brain tries to auto correct for
that or or does something and and
there’s there’s no way to discern why
that is happening it’s it’s more trying
to fit to that player’s reaction to that
club and understanding that and that’s
why I think fitting is so important but
it’s it it’s wild because without a
doubt a bigger heavier object is harder
to rotate and yet some people do it and
that’s what’s that’s what’s really
interesting about it and um in that same
uh meeting that I had with Callaway
where they were showing that they said
that there’s no necessarily correlation
between closure rate and Club head speed
so you could have guys that have 2200
degrees of closure and are swinging 78
miles an hour and guys that have 900
Degrees of closure and are swinging 125
miles an hour so you you usually you
think the faster you’re swinging the
more something’s closing no a guy can be
blocking it as they come through with a
really high weight rate of Club head
speed or a guy could be falling back on
his heels and just flipping his hands
over and barely generating any club head
speed so the human element is really
wild to to look at and see you know uh
how players generate their delivery
conditions and then how we in the golf
world try to kind of analyze that and
figure out how to make the game more
enjoyable for them the reason the reason
this this came to be and I was thinking
about this was because when I was at
golf prde earlier or end of last year
for the reverse they were showing us the
reverse taper is they had this picture
where they had and they’re they golf
golf PR headquarters in Piner they have
this great opportunity to talk to
regular golfers all the time like all
the time it is it is a really cool place
to be from a testing perspective because
they where what they’re doing so they
had this picture it was this like look
like a checkerboard picture and it’s
golfers holding their grip up with their
putter in front of their face so they’re
holding the putter head up to the sky
and they’re holding it up and to Chris
exactly to Chris’s point it’s like there
was they literally documented hundreds
of ways that people grip their putter
hundreds of ways and they tried to
categorize it and that’s where like to
get to the point where they developed
the reverse taper as the example like
it’s over like it’s well over a year
like almost two years like in
development because of trying to figure
out like what works and styles and all
this stuff and that’s where the golf
even just like for golfers like it is
this fascinating element of like how
golfers grip their Club there are
standard way script their Club what
feels very different and then you get to
the putter I know we’re going to touch
on this very shortly with the the
interview with with aie from Titleist
and Scotty Cameron is they have a new
grip on the Phantom series that was
developed and it was like it’s so much
about texture it’s not just about the
size cuz it is a different shape it’s a
slightly different size but it’s the
texture that how it feels in your hands
and that is not something that they just
like let’s try it right like that was by
the way I just want to make note like
for those who are like I was a fart
sound effect that was not actually like
I say what was that that was a fart that
was a fart sound effect they didn’t just
pull it out of thin air right like this
was something that like they they put so
much time in because everyone’s
perception is so different and that’s
why I do find like I seriously find why
I want to dig into this so much because
I there are grips that I put on clubs
and I’m like this is this isn’t even
going to last a range session like if
someone say something I’m G to try like
this is not going to work this isn’t
good so golfers when they go through
this process and they’re looking at
stuff it’s just fascinating to see how
all these different preferences and
sizes and textures and wraps and tapers
that people build into grips because we
I’ve done them broken it down into
tapers even with amount of tape it’s
just fascinating and that’s why I think
it is such an interesting topic one last
thing that I did want to point out
really quick going through this list and
again this is not Golf Pride is a
sponsor of this podcast but this this
grip segment is not sponsored by them
but I do need to point out Golf Pride
dominated this list there were three
guys so far on on the the two stories
that RB released on grip specs for pay
and Titleist three guys Jordan spe Tony
feno and Bubba Watson those are the the
three on Golf Pride guys everybody else
is a Golf Pride grip and and I know
they’re they’re basically like the
Titleist prov1 equivalent in the in the
grip space I mean they have a major
strangle hold at the tour level but my
goodness it’s like you see you see it as
you’re going down the list and it’s like
yeah Golf Pride is is it when it comes
to grips on tour and that’ll do it for
episode 238 of fully equipped as always
if you’re watching us on our YouTube
YouTube channel thank you make sure you
like And subscribe we have more fun
content coming but as always we do have
the weekly fully equipped podcast coming
your way on the YouTube channel and
wherever you consume consume your
podcast if you want more social goodness
from us you can check us out on
Instagram we are also at F equip Golf
and on Twitter we are _ equipped and
thank you listeners for listening into
this week’s episode we’ll see you next
week
oh
2 Comments
Best golf podcast there is.
Scottie Too Hotty is going to have Dad Strength now. Will he hit his drives 350yrds? Time will tell