Will this Premier League rule transform Newcastle United? with Chris Waugh

Charlotte is joined by Chris Waugh and Jon Lane to discuss Profit and Sustainability rules, how they all might change, how that might affect Newcastle, and what our summer might look like in light of all of that. Many thanks to Chris from The Athletic for offering us his insight on this one.

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aspas newcastle.ok it’s your true Faith
Newcastle United podcast and it’s a PSR
special it’s what you’re all calling out
for we are going to talk about profit
and sustainability rules but we’re going
to do it with Chris WF of the athletic
so it’ll be really interesting and
informed no doubt no pressure Chris of
course I’m Charlotte I’m also joined by
John Lane to chat through propos changes
to PSR rules uh what’s lightly what’s
not likely and um and how will it impact
ncasa United and then let’s um let’s
apply that to the summer and what we
think might happen or might not happen
let’s get into it then Chris I can tell
that you are very excited about talking
about PSR because yeah well ju just like
you started following football for PSR
the reason I got into sports journalism
is because I wanted to cover PSR so I
just feel privileged to be on thank you
I know it was a tossup for you at
University between um accountancy and
journalism so it’s a real Boon that you
can combine those two interests oh
exactly yeah exactly so let’s uh let’s
talk about it um event which is we do
doing this podcast in the wake of
Everton just being docked a couple of
more points um obviously 10 reduced to
six earlier on in the season then a
couple more and then possibly more to
come even from that and of course this
is because they breached PSR profit and
sustainability rules which sort of falls
under the umbrella of ffp and has
replaced ffp in our lexicon um but
there’s a lot of talk about what might
change and uh that Premier League clubs
are not particularly happy with the way
that it’s being applied with the way
that it’s working and the fact that it
is making us potentially a less
attractive option to um top talent Etc
so let’s talk through kind of what the
proposed changes might be which may even
happen in June am I right well I think
they could be voted through in June I
think the likelihood is that the there
wouldn’t come in for next season I think
it would probably be for The Following
Season or maybe the season after that
but the likelihood is that the current
regulations will still be in place going
into 2024 25s it’ll be but basically I
mean the the current rules are that in
theory over the course of a three-year
ruling period if you have an injection
of cash covered by the ownership you can
lose up to 105 million pounds now that
is not just just to get even more
complicated that doesn’t just replicate
for example in the in the most recent
account of Newcastle had the loss there
the full amount of that that loss does
not necessarily go towards that because
you get exemptions for things at the
Academy for the women’s team for
infrastructure spending for various
different other elements but largely if
you spend more than you actually bring
in then you could be uh in breach of
these regulations over a certain period
of time a lot of clubs by they being in
breach as we’ve seen everon notam Forest
uh allegedly Manchester City could be
allegedly Chelsea could be at some stage
um and various other clubs uh are very
very close or have been very very close
and and there is talk that this summer
before June the 30th that that’s almost
its own transfer deadline day for clubs
to try because that’s when the
accounting year ends so that’s when
clubs will try and get some business
done to make sure they comply but then
there’s going to be the second transfer
deadline day of the summer which is
which is the usual one and that’s a
bizarre scramble that there may be but
that’s the position everyone is in
because really we’ve seen over the
course of the last six months that
actually PSR does have teeth and the
Premier League will actually apply and
come down hard on it whereas as I was
featured on the previous podcast here I
remember Alex coming back at me when I
said that I think Newcastle and a lot of
other clubs were surprised when Everton
were initially docked points in November
but I think they was surprised by how
severe that was even though subsequently
that has been reduced to a certain
degrees so sorry to ramble on but the
the the proposed changes are to fall in
line with the rules that have come in
for UEFA which at their at UEFA level
it’s called the financial sustainability
regulations and essentially the way that
that works rather than uh the way that
the PSR works at the moment is that it
it’s basically a ratio of your Revenue
which would then cover transfer feas
player wages and the like that you can
spend on So eventually Europe on Europe
at European level over a sort of tapered
level it would be 70% of your Revenue
you’re allowed to spend annually on a
combined transfer fees player wages and
the likes it whereas the Premier League
it seems are looking at a sort of
85% Revenue cap but but you have to
remember that within that those clubs
who actually qualify for European
competition will have to actually meet
the 70% ratio because there will be also
be European uh rules which Newcastle
have had to be this season but there’
been 90% I think this season so
Newcastle all right on that front sorry
to Ramble On and Aras that was very
boring and convoluted but this is quite
convoluted so yeah no not boring at all
John did you want to jump
in yeah um I think it’s a really
interesting one the um because there’s
been also reports recently hasn’t neis
that they’re looking at um obviously the
luxury tax is the one that’s kind of
popped out at everyone and um I spoke to
Kier McGuire a couple of weeks ago on um
Northeast divide podcast and what i’
said to him was kind of what would you
put in place to keep it competitive
because I think the issue with PSR at
the minute is it’s it’s about it’s
talking about being you know about
keeping clubs sustainable but really
it’s about kind of protecting an elite
few clubs who already have that revenue
and he suggested a luxury tax um but is
there not going to be an issue there
because then it has to comply with you
if for a you qualify for Europe as well
like I can’t see how the two can kind of
marry in the middle yeah that’s part of
the issue which I think yeah hasn’t
necessarily been considered as much that
in theory you could have that lux luxury
tax and then Newcastle could spend well
Newcastle for example or another club
could spend over their present means pay
what is essentially a fine for doing
that knowing that that they will
hopefully get some sort of sporting
Advantage from it but then if they do
qualify for European competition then
they have to comply with the with the
revenue anyway so really that wouldn’t
necessarily work in practice and would
probably actually be more applicable for
a club lure down the Premier League who
probably wouldn’t you wouldn’t suspect
would have the funds that necessarily
others did unless they were really
desperate to avoid relegation and so may
sort of do a Splurge in a January window
or whatever um the the luxury tax is an
interesting one because it’s obviously
got a lot of coverage over the last
couple of weeks and it is something that
is being considered but my understanding
and this comes from both conversations
I’ve had but also people uh high up at
that athletic BAC at the athletic sorry
who basically cover these things on a
day-to-day basis that this is just very
much something that has been proposed by
some clubs probably by those who may
actually potentially continue to be in
breach of PSR going forward and that
they see that as a potential way out of
it and something they would like and and
all of these are very much ideas that
are being discussed at the moment what
was interesting from the last Premier
League meeting was when they’ve
confirmed that they are looking to
change the sort of PSR going forward
there is no confirmation as to exactly
what that’s going to be because the
clubs are split there are different
camps who want different things and you
can imagine it doesn’t take a genius to
work out who may be in those different
camps I mean we already know that
Manchester City are potentially
threatening legal action over some of
the other rules that the Premier League
have brought in to do with related party
transactions but other clubs who may
potentially be in breach or fear be in
breach will will probably be Keener for
the rules to be relaxed or changed than
those who see themselves as being
compliant so all of this is very much up
in the air there’s a lot of
self-interest there and we have to
remember that although a lot of clubs
are Shackled by these PSR rules now at
the end of the year the Premier League
is actually a 20 Club member
organization and they decide on the
rules now obviously three of those
members change on an annual basis and
also ownership changes for example when
these rules came in it was obviously
under Mike Ashley rather than the
present ownership but there was at least
some agreement when these rules first
came in and and to to change that is
going to I don’t think we’re at the
stage yet where there is actually a
consensus as to what’s going to happen
going forward I think the changes that
there really is a a massive amount of
possibilities uh with regards to the
changes and still keeping it competitive
because obviously the Premier League I
think there’s an I think you underplay
how much self-interest there is here
like sh it’s a 20 it’s a 20 member
organization but it’s very much an every
man for himself organization you want to
stay in that organization every season
and you want to get to the top of that
organization and then you’re allowed in
another organization and you can go and
play in that one and it’s all it’s all
very much to me every man for himself
kind of thing um and then and and and
there’s all these kind of uh potential
changes coming in now the luxury tax is
only one of them there are there are
other things there the UFA kind of model
that people there’s talks about caps on
on wages caps on um on on on their
coaching staff and things like that or
not taking that into consideration where
it is at the moment and I think one of
the things that interests me so much is
like there’s a lot of um parallels drawn
to um to the US and NBA and things like
that and and NFL and caps on wages and
caps and things like that and maybe we
could do something like that um and I
think I think it’s much easier to apply
those kinds of rules in America to those
Sports because those Sports basically
own exist in America and so you’re not
hindering a national league so much
because because because players aren’t
going to go to the Bundesliga equivalent
or um Liga equivalent but but in in this
case they will so the premier league has
to it has to protect itself and its
competitiveness and its attractiveness
to both players and sponsors but also
not get out of hand and I just think I
don’t know what what you think to this
Chris but I just think it’s almost like
it’s almost a a sopan task like you
can’t necessarily do that it’s almost
one or the other yeah I think one of the
models you referring to which they’re
considering is I think it’s referred to
as an anchoring model which is something
they do have in in some us Sports where
basically it would be the whatever the
television Revenue PID to the bottom
placed Club on an annual basis that
Revenue Times by a certain figure and
the suggestion is it might 4.5 for
example is the maximum that you could
spend yourself on salaries for example
now th those sorts of things I think
something like that may come in but I
agree with you that the problem then is
how do you eventually longer term
because the Premier League is so far
ahead of other leagues financially I
think it wouldn’t be an issue in the
short to medium term but longer term you
potentially do harm your competitive
nature there so but I think if you want
some sort of spending restrictions and
if you want some sort of quote unquote
Level Playing Field and I and I do very
much say that quote unquote because it’s
never going to be that then I do see the
logic behind this and I do I I think
that the idea that the Premier League is
really going to struggle because of uh
because of a lack of funds or
restricting itself I think is I think is
unrealistic really in the short ter I
just think they’re so far ahead of other
leagues that yes very much long term it
could be an issue but in the next few
years in some ways you the Premier
League as as much of a it was
interesting I was chatting to an agent a
few months ago and he referred to the
Premier League as like a golden cage and
what he was saying there was if you had
a certain Club if you join the Premier
League club and you reach a certain
level and have a certain wage packet and
and basically were bought for a certain
fee there are very few clubs you can
actually go to even if you become a very
very good player you could be a
mid-table Premier League club and unless
you go to a Premier League club higher
no clubs even at the very top level of
European football Beyond sort of Real
Madrid or PSG can actually afford you
and so the Premier League is in such a
strong position relative to it that I
don’t think it’s really going to damage
it in the in the short to medium term so
there and I think in some ways to to
continue the competitiveness that makes
the Premier League that the sort of
global brand that it is I do think that
that eventually they’re GNA have to come
up with some model I don’t know what
that is and I don’t know which of these
proposals will actually be be um voted
through but I do see the logic behind
actually trying to bring some of them
rather than the current system which
seems to be broken really agreed um so
on that note what like let’s s of let’s
start rowing it back over to Newcastle
what kind of thing do you think is
likely bearing in mind that 14 clubs
have to tick the box and say yes we
agree with that this this measure um and
we think this is the right way what do
you like a personal opinion and it’s
okay if you if it doesn’t happen and
it’s okay to be wrong um something I’m
learning in life it’s okay to be wrong
it hasn’t happened to me yet but it you
know it’s it’s okay um what do you
think’s likly to happen like do you
think they’re going to do a seismic kind
of change or do you think it’s going to
be more of a like like small tweaks and
see how it plays out the the flip side
to that is small tweaks are all well and
good but it’s not going to actually come
into play until the season after the war
after next so it’s it feels to me like
they should just do something big but
maybe I’m just being impulsive
yeah I mean there is still a chance that
they try and voted through for soona but
the suggestion is that that because it
won’t be agreed upon if it is even is
agreed upon until June which would
basically be the when the new member
clubs come in the league that it would
be too short a period to bring it in but
I think that that it will almost
certainly basically mirror if not
exactly equal what is it UF a level and
I think because because it it doesn’t
make that much sense to do something
which is so Divergent from that because
clubs will coming in in and out of it it
may be that the revenue to is actually
that the actual ratio is higher and that
is the suggestion I think it will be
because 70% certainly if you’re a club
like Bournemouth for example getting a
70% ratio of of all of your spending
relative to to revenue is very very
difficult because you obviously have a
tiny ground compared to others and basly
all of their money comes from or a
massive proportion of their money comes
from TV Revenue so I think it’ll be
something like that I think the luxury
tax is unlikely for the reasons that
we’ve already said and I do think that
going forward regardless of what ever
the sort of changes are to PSR I do
think that some sort of sporting
sanction will remain a lot of clubs are
adamant that has to be because the
problem you have if you only have a
luxury ta taxes that essentially a club
could could decide to just pay over the
odds whatever they want and if that ends
up relegating somebody else because
you’ve decided to pay massively because
you can afford to do so you haven’t had
that sort of sport and sanction that
that they were sort of complying within
the rules to do so I do think there
needs to be that element and there seems
to be a significant proportion at least
from what I hear of Premier League clubs
who want that as well so I realize I’ve
dodged the question there to a certain
degree but uh I I I generally don’t know
expertly done no and and nobody knows I
just I I’m just interested you know
you’re you’re close to it you speak to
people I wonder if you have a sense of
what what is likely to happen and I
think it’s really worthwhile pointing
out that the sporting sanction is is
most likely like to remain some kind of
sporting sanction otherwise the sort of
nature of the competition is kind of
erased in a lot of ways I think like
we’re owned by Saudi yes the money that
our owners have doesn’t necessarily
equate to the money that we’ve got to
spend but would they just pay 50 million
if it got us out of a
pretty unpleasant hole in in terms of
these finances Maybe
um John how do you think and Chris I’ll
come to you with this question after
John how do you think potential changes
might impact Newcastle do you think
it’ll give us a bit more freedom I know
you were um talking before about the the
transfer window and and the impact it
had not only on Newcastle United but on
the Premier League
itself yeah I think um I think the one
obstacle uh and we’ve already touched on
it is the Premier League is absolutely
uh rid it’s
it’s plagued with self-interest that
that’s that’s what governs it um and
that’s what’s governed the rules up to
now um the PSR rules work really well
for some clubs and not well for others
um Brighton as an example um they’re
massively in favor of PSR but part of
the reason for that is you know if
they’ve sold kaiso and whoever else for
the kind of fees that they have then
they’re in a massively strong position
so if the rules all of a sudden change
and they’ve got to almost change their
model then that’s kind of why they’re
against it but I think the impression
that the media are given at the minute
is that the the Premier League itself
are really fractured about what they
think the Right Way Forward is and they
need to come up with something that’s
going to work and I think January I feel
like January was almost like a bit of a
the clubs sh in and saying right well if
you’re going to give us points
deductions we’re not going to do
anything because it’s not good for the
brand it’s you know this January
transfer window is probably you know was
almost as interesting as watching paint
dry it was there was nothing going on
really I think Spurs did a couple of
things early um apart from that no one
really did anything um and I think it
was almost a Waring shot by the clubs to
say look if we don’t do something
different it’s going to have a massive
impact overall on the brand so the
Premier League will be Keen to do it but
it’s how they do that and they manage to
still fall in with UEFA and just to kind
of uh touch on Chris’s Point earlier
around the r ratio and whether that rule
would go in at the minute what they’re
proposing is anyone that doesn’t qualify
for Europe would be able to spend up to
85% as players spend which is Wages
amortization and agent fees so you could
have a team like Chelsea finished 10th
but then the following season they could
really spend to jump them back up to
that top four top six position so uh
again those rules would still really
massively benefit um the the greedy six
whoever you want to call
them it’s the greedy six but it’s also
like any article you read about it now
talks about Newcastle United because
we’re talking about money and we’re
talking about clubs with money behind
them Newcastle United gets sort of like
lumped in it’s now a seven right Chris
yeah and and actually are at least some
people at Newcastle who’ve been very
much pushing to to try and join those
sorts of clubs in terms of have that
sort of because they realize the swear
that they hold and they want to be part
of that conversation in whatever
Direction the league is heading they
might not hold the same views as as the
sort of greedy 6 for one of a better
term but they they also want realize
that they basically are to a degree the
power Brokers and terms of trying to
make things happen and Newcastle in that
sense given that it’s a you need a 14
vote uh it’s 14 votes in some ways
Newcastle have become a bit of a king
maker in that sense although not
obviously with all of the the rules that
Newcastle have have been introduced to
to sort of restrict Newcastle and that
that’s interesting in itself that even
within the sort of greedy six or now the
big seven whatever you want to call it
that there are sort of as we’ve talked
about self-interest there there are
different I mean man city in New Castle
obviously don’t want the related party
transaction deals to be to be as as
aggressively looked over as they are now
whereas other clubs within that or
Liverpool for example in others are more
pushing for that sort of thing so that
that that’s that’s interesting itself
but in terms of how these rules could
and would affect Newcastle United if if
it is to be something which is similar
to uefa’s model in some ways that
benefits Newcastle because Newcastle
realized that if they the goal for
Newcastle is to be in European
competition every single season so
they’re going to have to comply with
uefa’s rules and they already had to
last season and that it was interest
because they had a it’s quite
complicated because at the moment and I
don’t know if this is changing but the
Prem the uefa’s at least some of uefa’s
financial rules are on an annual basis
so they actually work from like January
the 1 to December 31st whereas obviously
the Premier League’s uh Financial
financials basically work from uh July
the 1st to June the 30th so they had
they had have very complicated sort of
structures of working out which one that
you stay within and without and and I
mean for accountants that isn’t
complicated but for us trying to
understand this that adds just another
layer of complexity to it yes there’s
layer people like
go um but the the longer term I mean in
the in the short term in theory the idea
is certainly at a premier league level
Newcastle would still to a degree be
entrenched in the position that they’re
in relative to the clubs with huge
Revenue because it’s still the more
Revenue you have still the greater
amount of money you can spend but longer
term
if Newcastle try and replicate the Man
City model or another model and and and
really try and increase their commercial
revenues and other revenues as they have
been doing it but they still need to do
to a large degree if they can get there
eventually in the medium to long term
Newcastle should be in a fairly strong
position from that it’s just they have
to make sure that they maximize that so
in the short to medium term whatever the
rules are I don’t think there’s going to
be a quick fix where suddenly Newcastle
are going to be able to access the the
theed wealth of majority owners because
that’s just not going to be theu they’re
not going to be the rules that are going
to be brought in but this outline of of
what’s being suggested or what looks
most likely I think longer term
Newcastle can get into a decent position
whereby they can try and really
challenge that that established Elite
and make sure they become part of it
potentially promising then I think we’ll
leave it there for part one part two of
the show and I think we need to kind of
hone back in on Newcastle United and um
and talk talk about kind of what these
rules mean for us but for us in the
immediate term so for us in the summer
so there is a lot of media talk today
Joe Linton looks like he’s Incredibly
Close to signing a deal if he hasn’t
already they haven’t announced it at
time of recording um and the
understanding I had certainly was that
those uh contract chats were getting
difficult because of the amount of money
that he wanted so my assumtion is that
he’s getting quite an a substantial
amount of money per week if he has
indeed signed a new contract um we’ve
already touched on in part one that uh
we any changes that get voted through in
June by the new members of the Premier
League will not necessarily come into
into Force immediately and they almost
certainly won’t come into Force by the
end of the transfer window on the 31st
of August so um Chris I’m kind of
interested in uh what your take on on
how we’ll approach the transfer window
will be in light of these things uh that
we all have to consider now all these
spreadsheets that we have to think about
um is Bruno going to go is like how how
are we going to approach this a lot
there’s loads to talk about I I’ll sort
of I’ll open up the questioning
there well Newcastle are very much
approaching this for now as the rules
are the same because the assumption is
that they are going to be so they are
looking at in that and then and then if
they have to change accordingly then
then they will do so
but obviously they Newcastle could not
find a way to actually make it work in
January where they could actually spend
money the manager clearly wanted players
ideally a midfielder they looked at
trying to offload players most notably
Miguel alron H who who was offered
around and they looked at trying to get
him away to Saudi Arabia if they could
and eventually that deal didn’t happen
but it was clear Newcastle had to sell
in order to buy they rejected bids for
Kieran trippier because they didn’t want
to lose him and and they made the call
that they’d rather keep Kieran trippier
than bring in a midfielder that that was
that was the priority at that stage now
going into the summer the PSR situation
eases to a degree
because fresh Revenue comes in on the
books for Newcastle one of which will be
the the the sort of Adidas deal which
comes in from from next year in in a
financial capacity there you would also
have obviously the Champions League
revenue from this year and so over the
three-year rolling period against
complicated as to which year each of
these come in in but equally they’re
going to have and they are going to
announce further commercial deals and
that that will help in terms of what
Newcastle can actually spend the same
time they are still in a in a I wouldn’t
use the term difficult PSR situation but
they they have it very much in mind that
they may have to sell before June the
30th there may be someone that they look
to offload before then although at the
same time it’s also seen as an
opportunity that pre-june 30th window
because clubs are desperate to sell and
can you actually pick up a bit of a
bargain if you can offload someone
yourself so Newcastle are very actively
looking at that and hoping that maybe
they can actually bring someone in
before that that window themselves if
they can sort out their own PSR
situation when it comes to selling
players the the likelihood is they are
going to still have to sell someone
whether that has to be one of the key
players for which you would I would have
included as of three months ago Sven
botman but obviously he’s injured he
isn’t going to be going anywhere um so
the ones you the two you’d mainly be
looking at now would be Alexander isach
and also Bruno gayes you would have
brought Joel Linton into that bracket if
he doesn’t sign this new contract but we
are let’s go on the assumption that he
is going to because talks are certainly
progressing in that direction even
though he hasn’t quite signed just yet
so isach Newcastle have absolutely no
intention of selling him although in my
view he’s probably the more salable
asset in terms of other clubs looking at
it and thinking he’s proven himself in
the Premier League he’s a adaptable
across the front line he’s still only 24
I think he is someone who has a very
high value but Newcastle very much want
to build a side round him going forward
they they don’t want to lose him because
they took a gamble bringing him in for
60 million pounds at the time and
because other clubs had looked at him
and hadn’t spent that sort of money
didn’t think it was worth the risk at
that stage Newcastle took that risk and
it’s paid off but there’s no guarantee
that another deal of that capacity would
pay off in the same way so they don’t
want to lose him the same applies to
Bruno gash the slight subtle difference
there is that there is maybe more of an
acceptance that potentially Bruno gimash
are two years older uh if someone like
Paris sgain does come into come in for
him and make a huge offer certainly if
Newcastle don’t get into Europe they’ve
still got a very good chance of doing
that at this stage but if they don’t get
into Europe there is a more of a
begrudging acceptance that maybe he
could go not that he will go I realized
I wrote this people got very irate and
said that I said he was going to go that
wasn’t what I said um but I think this I
think there’s more of record right yes I
think there’s there’s more of an
acceptance though that that it’s not
it’s not beyond the Realms of
possibility and that it wouldn’t come as
a surprise necessarily even if people at
the very top of the club are going to do
all they can to try and keep him if that
is the case then Newcastle are gonna
have to try and find Revenue elsewhere
and as I’m sure will come on do I’m not
sure there is that much revenue
certainly from the players who people
would potentially be willing to let go
Chris just on um kind of the the January
transfer window and obviously there were
lots of rumors about um migy about and
trippier and Callum Wilson is is that a
massive coincidence going into this
window cuz I mean I think if I was and
you know I’m not a director at the club
obviously but like you know I think if I
was choosing a level of player to to
sell to then be able to build further it
would probably be someone of that kind
of level rather than as you say one of
the big hitters um as as we’ kind of
talked
about yeah I don’t think I don’t think
there wasn’t surprise certainly not from
from a Callum Wilson point of view
because Newcastle need a striker this
summer there’s absolutely no doubt about
that and given Wilson’s age given that
he’s going at the final year of his
contract it sort of feels like that may
be a natural Junction for him to move
and I think that although Newcastle
didn’t want to lose in midseason
subsequently been injured obviously but
they didn’t want to lose in mid-season
eddh how didn’t want the count and do
him at that point people in around
Callum Wilson will understand be
thinking about his own future and right
is it time to actually try and get him
out of the club then if if he’s going to
be moved on this summer is there a more
attractive option in January Kieran
trippier will be an interesting summer
see exactly what happens with him I
think from an ideal point of view
Newcastle would like to keep him but
again when you look at age when you look
at length of his contract remaining if
and for C trippy himself maybe he thinks
that that that if he can get one last
payday for for one of a better term H
that he may go but I think for Miguel
alron
was almost the when we try to we up when
you when you Castle were trying to we up
who who should we sell and who can we
sort of replace but not in an ideal will
I mean if you if you gave them an ideal
blank set I’m sure they would keep
Miguel alron as a squad player and cover
across the front three would would
provide excellent backup from uh Off the
Bench and as you actually saw when he
had competition last season can actually
step up to that next level he hasn’t had
that competition this season but I think
it was trying to work out who actually
had value but they could countenance
letting go and I think that’s why Miguel
alron came out as the one who they tried
to to move on for for that very reason
it wasn’t that they definitely wanted
rid of him it was just that he sort of
of fit in that balance because you then
go throughout the rest of the squad and
this is not to denigrate the rest of the
squad but if you go how much are you
going to realistically get for Jacob
Murphy is it going to be worth selling
Jacob Murphy for what you can get in
terms of a PSR boost for what it brings
in again this is getting very
complicated in terms of amortization and
how much someone’s worth but it’s also
let’s just come down to the fee you’re
not going to get a huge fee for Jacob
Murphy you’re not going to get fees for
for Matt Richie for Paul dummit and
others so people can talk about moving
them on and that would help wages wise
but actually if you want to bring money
in you’re going to have to sell someone
who you probably in an Ideal World
wouldn’t have done in that position and
that’s why Armon in January was the one
who you looked at at that stage again
this Summer that might again be the
similar situation but there are other
another couple of players who maybe come
into that bracket as
well that if you sell one of your
Academy graduates then you it goes down
as pure profit which is a ridiculous
sort of scenario really because it
almost encourages you to sell you on
players but basically that what that
means is all of the money you sell them
for because you haven’t paid for them
initially there is no Book value that
you just gain all of that in pure profit
so someone like Shan longstaff or the
like that’s not beyond the Realms of
possibility if you really look at look
at it in that stage I’m not saying
that’s going to sell any of these
players specifically but that’s these
are all the conversations Newcastle are
having to have and because of the
situation they now have with the defense
and the two very serious knee injuries
they’ve suffered to Sven Bartman and
Jamal asels that has only complicated
further what was already a very very
complicated window because Newcastle
were looking to sign a center back
anyway but now how many players can they
actually sustain in defense and by that
I mean how many do you actually need to
make sure the fit because Newcastle have
said six to nine months for them but
realistically most ACL injuries are nine
months plus for someone to come back
fully fit so you talking the end of the
year so that’s basically the first half
of next season so you’re gonna need
you’re gonna need Defenders for the
first half of next season but at the
same time you are also paying the wages
for jamala Cel and Fen botman in a PSR
world how do you sustain that so this is
this is a very very complicated summer
that Newcastle have that unfortunately
over the course of the last fortnite has
only become even more complicated can I
ask you a question on wages um and you
might not know the answer and this I
might have the wrong information but I
was reading recently that some of the
massive numbers that you see aren’t
necessarily the base wage that they’re
getting that they are comprised of
appearance fees and things like that is
there any wiggle room there is there any
scope that like Jamal theels or Sven
Batman’s wages have been significant
ific L decreased by the um ACL injury or
am I really really clutching at straws
here no well some players are some
players their wages are L largely
determined by appearances or the like
and and Jo Linton is one of them and I
think that that came out in his court
case for when when he was uh done for
for for drink driving that that was that
came out that that that that he wasn’t
actually on the base level that people
necessarily thought he was so so some
players yes you you will gain a little
bit by that but it’s not it’s not it’s
it’s not big but I I do think wages
aren’t spoken enough about PSR people
always talk about transfer fees but if
you look at leester in the situation
leester have got themselves into they’ve
been charged uh the situation there has
largely come about by wages wages are
the constant that you have every single
year if you give someone a five or six
year contract it you just look at this
Jeff hendrik situation you casto’s still
paying Jeff hendrik and that still
contrib the PS well exactly that is that
is I mean he eventually comes off the
boooks this summer but that is that
contributes to the PSR situation Isaac
Hayden still has another year or two
left on his contract that this is It’s
the sort of unseen thing that people
don’t talk about but actually that’s a
big one and Newcastle part of the reason
why Newcastle maybe can’t compete for
the very very very top level of player
speaking to someone in involved
recruitment they were saying that if at
Newcastle they want to go for the they
want to go for the same players as Man
City Liverpool Arsenal but they then get
there a they probably in a PSR World
they probably can’t spend the the same
transfer fee but also wise they are not
competing in the same territory so then
they go for the level of player below
which they may in terms of what is
actually proven from that player what
they have actually done be paying
slightly over the odds but equally they
have to take a bit more of a risk on
them than those clubs at the very top D
because they can’t afford to compete for
those proven players in every single
capacity and that’s why newcastle’s wage
structure is still massively below all
of those biggest clubs I mean you look
at Arsenal for example and and Newcastle
are being heavily linked with with with
Aaron Ram and they do they do like him
he’s someone obviously Eddie how knows
very well from his Bournemouth days but
his wages would put him among the very
very top earners at Newcastle United if
he came in that that and he’s a reserve
goalkeeper at Arsenal at the moment
that’s that’s the the difference and
that’s the the constant that carries
every year but Newcastle have been Keen
to to keep the weird structure within
Lane for what they can for now for
partly for or largely for PSR reasons
now Joe Linton giving him a big new
contract that will affect those terms as
well and maybe when you look at the
likes of Jeff hendrik coming off the
wage bill this summer maybe part of the
wages that were then earmarked to go on
new signings this summer maybe more of a
proportion of that than ideally would
have been liked are going to be going
towards Joe Linton now and that adds
into the Melting Pot of the difficulty
of Newcastle and getting the balance of
the figures right for this summer as
well yeah super interesting I find W I
think wages are really interesting in
the way that it’s all structured and and
all of that stuff but uh we don’t have
to go into into what I find interesting
I’m terribly terribly boring um
I think it would be remiss of us not to
also talk about and and John kind of
touched on the Brighton model which was
uh you know buying these young players
sending them off to Europe uh to get um
game time and get experience and and
then with the hope of um obviously some
of our Academy but but you know buying
in these young players in particular and
and one sticks out and we will be doing
a full Patron podcast on him next week
um when we have a lull in games and we
really want to do some deep diving into
um yanuba M who is um just doing so well
at fire Nord and a lot of people are
saying online like I can’t wait for this
kid to come back in the summer and Slot
straight in at at right wi like that’s
that’s exactly what’s going to happen
I’m a little bit more skeptical about it
than that I personally I think that the
league he’s in is a very the Dutch
league is a very different League to the
Premier League obviously he’s doing
really well and he’s clearly got an
amazing Talent some of the goals that
he’s scoring and assists that he’s
providing are really beautiful to watch
if you um want to go to YouTube and
watch them please do um but was he
bought like do you know Chris any inside
Intel or just any kind of feeling was he
bought as uh let’s get him some game
time and then slot him into the team or
was he bought as a let’s increase his
value and then sell him because I have a
cynical view that it’s the
latter I don’t think the two necessarily
mutually exclusive exclusive in the
sense that I I think it was an either or
I think it’s that that um I mean my my
colleague actually Jacob Whitehead’s
just been across in the Netherlands and
watched MTA he he’s there for MTA
scoring twice and assisting in the six0
victory over a at the weekend and so
he’s spoken to a lot of people about M
and there is a lot of excitement around
him now he wasn’t an Edie how signing
per se just like gu garan koal wasn’t an
EDH house signing pery they were very
much sort of Dan Ashworth Steve Nixon
LED in terms of players who Newcastle
have looked at and and tried to identify
in the way that Chelsea do in the way
that Manchester City do the basically
all of the the big clubs do and and
Brighton do to a certain extent as well
as as John’s made the point on that that
you sign these players and then you you
send them out Al loan and see how they
do develop and that then either they
become part of your own first team
because you haven’t spent the same sort
of fee that you would have to if they
were established in Europe or in the
Premier League certainly or if not then
hopefully they improve to at least a
degree that you do get some PSR money
back now the thing with Yan Kuba Mena is
that Newcastle paid quite a lot of money
for him it was about eight or nine
million so they would need a good fee
for him now they probably could could
get that this summer if they wanted him
so but at the moment my understanding is
that that all possibilities remain open
when it comes to M and Addy how wants to
actually take a look at him in preseason
that he wasn’t the play necessar saying
but equally if he’s got so much other
business to do this summer if Mina can
come in and certainly if Newcastle see
are in the Europa conference League next
season if you could play Minter on a
Thursday night there and as someone who
you can rotate your squad and hopefully
get him greater game time then see how
he does that could be an option so Eddie
how wants to look at it and see whether
he can work and whether he is far enough
in his development for that the the the
the most likely option still at this
stage I think is that he would go out
and Loan again potentially back to final
but potentially somewhere elsewhere if
Newcastle want to challenge him and see
if he can deal in a different league but
then the third option is that if if a
club comes in with an in ping offer and
Newcastle actually need the money PSR
wise they wouldn’t be completely against
necessarily moving on yanba Min now
that’s not me seeing they are going to
sell them I’m just saying that that that
this but I think you could look up just
about any s any player who Newcastle is
in around the fringes at Newcastle at
the moment and there are decisions to be
made on them and it much very much
depends on what marketed out there and
what offers they get and also what other
business they can conduct if they end up
send signing a right winger and a
forward in the summer and Minter isn’t
going to get any sort of game
then both the loan option out and the
PSR option in terms of selling him
increase but if Newcastle can’t get a
right winger then if you already have
Mina and he comes into preseason you
think actually he’s not too far off he
could probably play in the Europa
conference League then we see later in
the season then he becomes an option
there so I realize that’s me sitting on
the fence but there there isn’t actually
a decision my understanding is there
isn’t a decision actually made there yet
and that all possibilities remain open
and it isn’t it isn’t beyond the Realms
of possibility that yanuba Mena could be
in IND Newcastle shirt in sort of
Thursday night European competition next
season realistically Newcastle are not
going to solve every single problem that
that that they have within their squad
it’s not Eddie how said the other week
that it would basically be impossible in
a PSR world to do a full Squad overhaul
now I think he was trying to dampen
expectations to a degree there because
Newcastle intend to do significant
business and I’m sure there will be
significant ins and outs but it isn’t
going to be that every single player who
I suppos a significant proportion of
Newcastle fans may think is not quite at
the level required to get Newcastle to
to the to take the next step is going to
be moved on and that suddenly every
single position is going to be bolstered
to the degree that everyone would like
because that the castle don’t have the
capacity to do that it’s going to be as
I said it was already a complicated
window the defensive situation makes it
more difficult and if you just think
about whatever the budget may be see if
it is and this is just me plucking
figures out thin air but see if it is
somewhere between sort of 100 and 150
million if you want to sign a good
Striker you’re talking at least a
quarter but probably a third if not more
of that budget is already going to go on
that one position so then you’ve got to
work out what you can do with everything
else and so it is going to be a
difficult summer there are going to be
some I believe that Newcastle will make
some exciting signings but it isn’t
going to be that going into next season
you’re going to look at every single
position and think yeah that’s the squad
totally sword
now well fingers crossed they change all
the rules in June and we can really take
advantage of of that and uh and go on a
crazy spending spree that’s what I’d
like to see happen um we have to end it
there unfortunately thank you so much to
Chris I feel like we could actually chat
about it and and particularly the summer
and particularly our players for hours
more but we have to let Chris have a
life and um and John of course I don’t
have one of those um thank you so much
Chris for joining us thank you John for
joining us thank you everybody for
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