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Welcome to Project Footballer, where we dive deep into how to make your child into a footballer and navigate the world of youth football with our special guests.
In this episode, we speak to Chelsea legend Frank Lampard, one of the Premier League’s most legendary midfielders. From early childhood training under his father’s watchful eye to becoming a football icon, Lampard shares personal anecdotes and insights that shaped his career. Discover the intense and unique training methods that set him apart from an early age, the motivations and expectations placed upon him before he was even born, and how these experiences influenced his approach to football and life. Lampard also reflects on the evolution of football training, the challenges of youth development, and his philosophy on coaching and parenting in the modern era.
Whether you’re a die-hard football fan or just love inspiring stories of determination and success, this episode offers valuable lessons and a behind-the-scenes look at the making of a football legend.
Could you develop your child into a footballer if you followed the ‘perfect’ formula? Sean Conlon, the founder of We Make Footballers and a Scout with Chelsea believes some people can. Follow our journey to discovering what it really takes to become a footballer.
How much is down to luck, genetics or being born into a football family.
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Chapters:
00:00:00 – Podcast Trailer
00:01:22 – Youth Football and Talent Spotting
00:07:20 – Project Footballer Intro
00:07:38 – Project Lampard
00:11:05 – Pleasing Everybody, including my Dad
00:15:55 – Early Years in Football
00:20:43 – The Importance of Giving Visuals in Football
00:25:24 – Scanning and awareness in sports
00:31:09 – Hard work and dedication in becoming a top athlete
00:36:00 – Developing Shooting Techniques
00:40:54 – The Hard Work of Becoming a Footballer
00:45:38 – Developing Technical Skills
00:50:54 – Scouting Frank Lampard
00:55:52 – Players Desperate to Get to the Next Level
01:00:48 – The Frustrations of a Midfield Player
01:05:38 – Attacking from the Edge of the Box
01:10:48 – Balancing Push and Rest
01:15:31 – Recognizing talent and providing confidence
01:20:21 – The Challenges and Choices of Young Players
01:31:08 – Resilience and Handling Criticism
01:36:17 – The Importance of Following Your Child’s Passion
01:41:19 – Coaching in Academy Football and the Importance of Communication
01:46:37 – The Importance of a Parent as Coach
01:51:56 – The Benefits of Changing Positions
01:57:01 – The Evolution of Football Positions
02:02:09 – Balancing Education and Football
02:07:21 – The Influence of Environment and Social Skills in Youth Development
02:12:36 – Becoming a Technician in Football
02:17:42 – Mastering the Strike Technique
02:22:30 – Improving Skills through Practice and Repetition
02:32:47 – Developing Players for Professional Football
———————————
Frank do you know what the term project
mbappe means young players I guess in
the modern day that you’re trying to
make into the next mbae with your father
are you the result of his very own
project
Lampard well yeah I am Frank Lampard one
of the greatest midfielders to ever play
in the Premier League I don’t know if
we’ll ever have a midfielder that get
those types of numbers again it’s just
phenomenal what he’s
done what age did you start playing
football I played my first game over the
park four or five my dad took me over
there and just pushed me in there going
son your dad he was quite strong with
you do you think that kids are resilient
enough to be able to handle that
nowadays now I think you do have to be a
bit more careful how you deliver the
message my my dad was putting a black
bag on me and running me two like 2
miles around the block with him when I
was 8 years old that wasn’t probably not
normal as such at the time what age did
your dad get you to start using spikes
really young I probably said probably
about 10 years of age do you think even
before you were born he wanted you to be
a footballer
yeah i’ I’d say so what were you like as
a little kid a bit shy I would say Okay
um you weren’t shy
that taking it back for when you were
like five six years old do you think
Scouts now would Scout a Frank
Lampard
um hello and welcome back to project
footballer the voice of Youth Football
we had an amazing reaction from the last
episode that we did with Jamie Paul and
Harry rnap the feedback that we got was
incredible we’re excited for this
episode today key thing that came back
from the episode was that people really
really liked that you guys talked about
the journeys of your children who are in
Grassroots and Academy football so um
before we bring in the guest yeah we
thought we’d you know be interesting to
hear a little bit about you know how how
how the week has gone for the boys yeah
good Freddy I went and watched Freddy
the other uh last Sunday against uh
Southampton and uh Charon yeah so it was
good you know I enjoy watching I think
the games are the bonus I think that
believe I think the training is the more
important thing I think the Tuesday
Thursday Saturday he trains at Chelsea
and I think the icing on the cake comes
Sunday but I I think the main thing for
me is is the training in my opinion yeah
I know what you mean I mean my my I got
three boys so Charlie’s 19 he plays
rugby in Arizona he’s in University
there Bo’s 15 um he’s been at brenford
which is starting their academy uh
hopefully next year and he’s enjoying
that doing well I’m seeing a real
progression in him at the moment he’s
starting to get a bit bigger stronger
and enjoying his football and you know
getting confident which is a really
important thing I think that’s one thing
that I’m sure a lot of parents will get
from this is how you find a way of
getting your kids confident Rafa two his
left foot’s coming on we’re getting him
you know he we’re getting him out there
hitting you know hitting the target as
much as possible he does doesn’t want to
play with that outside of the foot like
you yet but no it’s been great you know
and I’ve watched a lot of football I
went to watch fulham’s youth team a
couple of times they got some fantastic
young players you know really I love the
way they coach that’s a really good
Academy I think they do it so well there
one of my good friends um his his boy
Reggie Walsh is in the England of the
16s so the is it the O the 08s I think
they are yeah 2008 boys yeah so I went
over to to watch them in Spain Alicante
and they played against Saudi
um the game that I watched and a couple
of other games and some talent coming
through wow I saw a few boys there’s a a
young boy up to Arsenal pool Max Dalman
I don’t know if you’ve heard of him but
one of the best young players I’ve seen
in a long time yeah beautiful footballer
just as such a e it’s effortless for him
and he’s he’s a year younger as well and
what position so he he can play number
10 number eight he could look put him
anywhere on the pitch he’s a special
talent and and he’s got looks like he’s
got a really good family around him very
grounded um yeah super impr don’t to put
too much pressure on Young play quite
old is hej so he’ll be 14 at the moment
but he was playing sort of against 16
year olds wow super talent and yeah
Reggie was was really good as well and
there’s a lot of good players you know I
watched Josh King play a young boy at
Fulham yeah know him super Talent
midfielder he’s been playing through
England throughout all the levels as
well so yeah it’s been I’ve enjoyed it
watched a lot of games I’m enjoying I
actually I’m enjoying love watching the
Premier League and I think Paul
mentioned it this week about we’re can
have one of the best title races in
years but I I always take it back and it
always reminds me a little bit my
granddad he watched so much football
growing up we know heed to go watch all
the youth team games and under 14s under
15s in in the park in East London and I
I love I love that I love trying to spot
a talent you know and thinking cool and
someone tells you he can play you go I’m
not sure about him I like him he’s the
one you’re a bit like yeah no I did I
see that at Chelsea the other week when
and watched a couple of kids and the one
the kid that I looked at was like he
played at number six I don’t I didn’t
catch his name I think I was talking
someone the other day and I was like my
God he’s good and everybody was like oh
really I went oh my God yeah he’s the
best player on the pitch you know he
done everything right he played as a six
he he just it reminded me like of a
young Rod re you I mean he just done the
simple things very well he was
disciplined you know didn’t get involved
with like what he wasn’t good at and he
kept it simple yeah I love love watching
kids you know some people go oh my God
he’s going to be the best I’ve ever seen
and I’m like not sure about that one
yeah you know what I mean and there’s
other players that don’t so yeah but it
football changes week in week out do it
I mean absolutely we there’s another
young remember John rgen the runner John
Ren he was 110 meter hurdles 400 meter
hurdles I think his son Seth he’s he
played for England as well he was a
super talent and the best three players
were actually the boys I from my opinion
were the younger ones so uh yeah that
was good and what about so we got good
guest today have you got your uh your
shirt on number eight no I haven’t as it
go to be fair I did buy a thing an
auction a while back for Freddy the
C his armband signed by him really now
I’m wishing why’ I buy that I might I
just brought one in myself and got it
sign today when you think about our
guest today uh sh what what’s your
what’s your memories when you think of
Frank legend yeah like absolute Legend
and goal scorer um yeah really sort of
like inspirational person and yeah one
of the best players ever’s played in the
Premier League yeah I don’t know if
we’ll ever have a a midfielder that gets
that those those types of numbers again
it’s just phenomenal what he’s done no
absolutely not no I think yeah
unbelievable and played in an era where
there was a lot of good players in that
position you know you talk about Gerard
you talk about skulls you know you talk
about the guests we’re going to have
like you’re talking like worldclass
players do you know what I mean and he
he was one of them I mean yeah that will
never be done again what he’s done I I
don’t personally think so I think what
was it five six seven years on the truck
20 goal yeah and a lot of never got the
credit for the assists as well yeah get
him in let’s get him in let’s let’s
let’s let’s get project lamp
[Music]
even as he comes in it’s a late
running just arriving late all behind
you and the BS in the back of the where
did that what happened
there Frank do you know what the term
project mbappe
means um no okay I can guess go what’s
your guess your guess I’ve seen I’ve
seen it I’ve seen it used
um no I guess is it
um uh a young young players I guess in
the modern day that you’re trying to
make into the next mbappe parents maybe
or coaches or whatever I don’t know yeah
I mean yeah mbappe is a superstar so
it’s yeah can you make your child into a
footballer not easy that so so my first
question to you well this is actually
what we’re trying to figure out between
us sha is is a a top youth coach
obviously M myself have been lucky
enough to do it and having a guest like
you we’re trying to get what is the
magic recipe to make a footballer you
know I think that’s really what we’re
trying to get that’s it that’s it and
with your father like are you the result
of his very own project
Lampard well yeah I am okay I guess to a
degree I think it’s a long debate um I
suppose we’re talking nature versus
nurtur yeah um so I think I was
definitely a project okay and Jamie will
have understanding on that obviously I
know that from a close hand but um yeah
I I think you know you look back on your
career and fate and your early parts of
it and you can think of all the things
that are in your favor or against you or
whatever and everyone’s got challenges
to try and make his a footballer because
it’s such a low percentage due yeah but
one of the big things I had in my favor
was I had a you know a close call was a
dad that was made me a project maybe he
was a a frustrated ex left back so I was
never going to be a left back like get
yourself high up the pitch cuz you
probably watched the brookens and the
deers players in front of him some great
players at West Ham in his day um that
probably got more headlines than him so
I know that used to sort of say stuff
like that to me so I was probably
naturally a Midfield player anyway but
my I had I had the the the benefit of of
a great knowledge so a as a young kid
and I think it’s different now everyone
lots of parents for good and for bad I’m
sure we’ll talk about it have a have an
idea about what they think is project
and B and what you need to do my dad had
a great understanding of it in in that
day so I got uh I was helped by that
without a doubt m
so what were you like as a little kid as
a player or as a lad um lad uh probably
um quite a bit shy I would say Okay um
you weren’t shy and I APPA
no I actually
[Laughter]
wasn’t that’s a different episode you
learn from the best I learned from my
dad about football I learned from Jamie
about AAA but um so no I think um no I
was I wanted to please I was bit like
that at school so you know I the benefit
of being sort of I would say probably
middle class maybe maybe a touch better
than that my dad’s football career
didn’t pay like it does these days but I
go to went to a private school yeah um
so I was very attentive at at school I
was probably a good student not like
Ultra top of the class but I wasn’t
middle-ish and always pushed myself
probably because of the main thing I
wanted to please my my teacher I had
that kind of nature about me so in the
same way I wanted to please my parents
so my mom would always have been the um
the sensitive figure in my life you know
the one that would be a bit softer and
more maybe more definitely more emotion
to her and my dad more of a hard task
master so I kind of wanted to please
everybody I would say as a kid um and
that probably followed through and you
do you do drop those like JY jokes there
about at 17 you a bit different at 22
and I moved to Chelsea different again
27 playing for your country and that
better you know more confident more
trusting myself but as a youngster I
think there probably a lot of youngsters
they they will show in different ways
yeah but I that was my way and you had
two sisters as well so you that were
both older than you so you didn’t really
have like a brother to go and play
football in the in the garden with I
guess to a certain extent and in those
days we we joke about there’s more kids
that seem to have gone to private
schools that are coming through but in
your you were known as a private school
I think Grand the so and yourself were
probably the only two that came from
that background you know and it was
quite unique to have a kid that came
from that whereas I do think there’s a
bit of a change with kids from private
schools but no I get that that you that
you were shy but you also had from a
very early age an unbelievable work
effort you listen to people you took on
information really well yeah and I’m not
sure because it goes too far back to
know whether that was sort of an inate
thing in me on the nature side or I just
had that from the environment I grew up
in because you know my my dad was sort
of famed in a West Ham sense he training
ethic and that he you know worked so
hard as a young boy to become a player
and and and again it comes down to
circumstances and my dad probably came
from a much tougher upbringing he
certainly came from a tougher upbringing
than me yeah you know he lost his dad
when he was two years of age he grew up
in Canon Town very workingclass
environment so my dad’s options were
probably not great options or become a
football player so that was probably
what his motivations were mine were
obviously different I had a better
upbringing so he probably passed on
those um sort of motivations to me even
though I was in a much more settled
environment do you think even before you
were born he wanted you to be a
footballer yeah I’d say so really I’d
say so yeah I think so and uh maybe he
saw it in simple terms um because of how
his life have been as I just explained
it was that hang around on maybe the
wrong crowd be a footballer okay I think
my options were more than that so I
think I could have probably gone down
different routes because of what I had
and I think even more in a modern day
I’ve got you know my four children now
my young son yeah particularly loves
boting a ball around now he’s just
turning three um and he will have lot
more lots more options I see it already
cuz my option was to kick the ball
against the the wall at the front of the
house his option is to sit on the iPad
for longer or watch any episode of
anything any momentan we never had that
like if you miss gra Hill you’re not
watching it later
on and that was it a guy and kick the
ball around you know yeah well like kids
now I mean like you’ve seen it Paul
Jamie like kids are starting football
from literally like four years old now
um what age did you start playing
football yeah probably as long as I can
remember all right I played my first
game over the park near where where I
grew up it was walking distance and I
went over there 4 five my dad took me
over there and threw me just pushed me
in there go on son and I would I would
have been nervous to I remember scoring
an own goal got got my ends mixed up and
I’ve
scor and I cele celebrate was looking at
me and I never I never forget the moment
of fear and like and it sort of I I
didn’t want to be there anyway I love my
football but it was like going get in
there and and I got a lot of that in my
career like I remember lots of things in
my dad I start you said I started young
but my dad was always I don’t know you
both went through this cuz my dad was so
vocal it was always like short Corners
he want me to go over and get it short
and I didn’t really want it I was eight
or nine years of age and we playing like
go on get it in the Box there’s a chance
to get in the Box old school you know
and he go go get it short and I used to
like pretend not to hear him get it
short go give it away in the corner like
it wasn’t I wasn’t immersed I wouldn’t
kind of manipulate and kind of go I’ll
find something from there I was a bit
different so but my point point is I
suppose he was always very pushy like
that and to to to to the point where I
didn’t always like it so my my memories
are growing up of loving football all I
ever loved but also feeling the pressure
which was obviously a good thing for me
at the end in the end because it was
part of the what made me a player I
guess what Frank what when from a young
age what did you always think you’re
going to be a Midfield player um did you
always think right this is how I’m going
to play I want to play this or was you
playing left back right back Center
forward or was it just one position yeah
probably always a Midfield player I
think again that was probably conformed
by my dad a bit who probably saw me as
that I think it did suit my attributes I
remember I remember wanting to play up
front a little bit I never would have
had probably that pace or that little
bit of injection up top and I think that
was quite clear even though my my time I
probably I thought that’s the way you
score more more goals you know natural
thing and I remember in my school I
jumped into the to the first uh first 11
or whatever they called it in the
private school I was a third year so I
was playing like three or four years up
and they put me at left back um and I
didn’t love it but I actually really
appreciated it afterwards and probably
dur in it a bit just recognizing a
different position make working those
things out but other than that it was
probably always a Midfield player but I
I definitely had things that I needed to
to improve to become the modern day
Midfield player even as what it was then
you know people I probably would have
looked up who would have been the ones
at that age maybe a bit young with Brian
Robson box to box looked up to him as a
player and I was probably athlet
athletically bit chubby couldn’t really
get up and down so my my dad probably
was Project Lampard was get more stamina
you got to be up and down getting get
yourself in the Box don’t be content
just to be on the halfway line all that
stuff and and what about this
environment with you guys playing
football in the garden Jamie well I
think it’s something I was I was
actually going to ask Frank there
because we’re trying to figure out what
it takes with parents because the the
questions that we always get asked is
what’s the best way to deal with a young
Talent now I when I think back to to
your dad he was quite strong with you
you know in in certain games he’d be
vocal on the sidelines do you think that
parents can be that way now tiar Omri
was alluding to it in an interview about
his dad he was very similar do you think
that kids are are resilient enough to be
able to handle that nowadays yeah uh
probably not I would say maybe that’s a
bit of a generalization there might be
occasional I I heard the omry um
interview I was interested I didn’t know
that at all about TI I found it really
interesting because you look at a play
like TI you just imagine everything went
for him didn’t look at that Talent it’s
always going to happen and then he
speaks emotionally about those things
and you realize it sometimes there thing
more important than football because as
much as he’ll and he does the interview
I heard he praises the fact that it
helped him get where you can give you
different issues down the line as well
in your relationship with people so I
think it depends on the parent as well
where do you want to be cuz I certainly
didn’t like my dad at times for being so
hard on me now I respect it because it
gave me a career um that’s my story I
think in the modern day now I think you
do have to be a a bit more careful how
you um deliver the message uh I
certainly would be different from the
experience of of being with my dad but I
don’t think he should take away some of
the basics that get drilled and enforced
into you because I think some of those
have to be quite firm of the softy softy
approach for me um we just I think have
to be a bit more aware how we deliver
the message I would say I would probably
that’s that’s probably how I would want
to be as a parent with if any of my
children if they started to get to
position I actually think now they do
have the talent here but they do need to
learn this side of the game I would
deliver it softer than my dad whoever
that’s right or wrong I think that’s a
personal issue but I do feel the benefit
of being in the football as a career I
have an understanding I do get
frustrated with parents I see that don’t
have an understanding of the game that
are being very false and passing the
wrong message on to to to children in a
false for way and even the other
children aren’t even their kid yeah so
if we were taking project Freddy Lampard
now yeah how are you going to bring him
up how are you going to make him
understand what it takes the hard work
and the dedication like you had um if he
wants to be a football at days yeah true
yeah if he does I’ll probably gauge it
as I go because at a minute um I’m
learning as a as a dad because my
daughters have never shown interested
they had different interests but my my
my boy Freddy he does love it at first
glance but I’m learning because I’m
trying to probably ask too much of him
at a minute CU he he literally wants to
kick a ball now he just wants to kick it
and I’m trying to put it on his left
foot trying to get
dribbling time that run hold Shir hold
letting him go so he like bringing in a
kid to play like you got Mele Ro someone
there get play dates at 3 you just come
in but I swear your dad I I swear you
talked about how you had a really really
like bad game at one point when you 11
years old and like you just wanted to go
home but your dad was like no look you
got the pen and paper out and he said
you weren’t tracking your Runners and
you actually spoke about how that
benefited you and it gave you a massive
Advantage I remember that to this day
cuz I got done on a one to right I got
went in for that one and they around me
and I didn’t that it was really simple
he did the diagram and I suppose like
I’m probably going against me own
argument cuz that sticks in my head to
this day and you know it became a part
of my my game to not try and get done
got done occasionally but you you learn
the idea so with project Freddy I would
probably G I’ve already learned that I
can’t ask him to too much like if he is
the the beauty for him now is just the
fact that he loves kicking the ball I’m
in it for that I’ll kick the ball with
him all day there’ll be a step he’s
three years old yeah he’s turning three
next week okay yeah so he he does that
but then again he’ll go off on his iPad
I we want to play football he be like
know for minutes there are loads of
different things that I’m coming to
terms with that that were not my growing
up you know so it’s different we’re
quite relaxed about it though as long as
they both play for England we’re all
right but it’s funny because we speak it
you know every now and again we talk
about the boys and rappers too he’s a
little bit younger and and it’s like how
he getting on you know it’s great you
know got the balance because Freddy’s
right footed RAF is left footed you know
we can see that Midfield and we love it
don’t we it’s never going to change
but sometimes I’m you know because of
that we the amazing thing I find and
it’s the same with Paul with your Freddy
and Rafa and you’re Freddy that that we
know how hard it is we know it’s almost
impossible to become a professional
footballer but we are still going to do
everything in our power to try and make
it or enable it and well so much you can
do but we love it so much but we also
know how difficult it is yeah it is and
and I’m I’m interested in the project
it’s the first time hopefully with
Freddy if he does show the intention
that he wants to of how it will look
because I’ve only lived my journey and
I’ve got opinions on it through my
journey but it might be a bit different
for him how much he wants it how much he
wants to be driven what life looks like
for him now I would love him to be a
footb and I never felt that emotion
until I’ve had him and I’m sensing it
now to a lot of my friends and parents
um and they they’re so invested in it
and I used to look at him all right I’d
had daughters who weren’t that
interested in it and now at the minute
he is so I can see all the emotions that
you’ve had before and now obviously with
raer again it’s exciting though I like
that you come for a time in your life
where it’s actually a good Focus for me
now to have something like that I’ve
never had that so so Freddy turn he’s N9
years of age someone plays a onew on him
are you getting the diagram out yeah I
am yeah so for as much as I that my dad
used to get on my nerves I’ll get the
diagram out I might use different
language at different times how my dad
was but that’s just how he was that was
part of his his makeup as a person I’m
definitely a bit different to him in my
way but I will get a d cuz I do I mean
I’m fortunate to app play and now I’ve
coached for good few years so you do
learn I sometimes do quite and I think
this is actually just parenting as a
whole you know like how you parent is
how you manage it’s just a grown-up
version of of managing sometimes you got
to try and you know inspire people or
what’s the best way to so a visual is
always a good way the diagram sticks in
my head gives you a picture doesn’t it
ites absolutely gives you a picture like
analysis now we never had that as
players who really like it came in but
you’d probably watch now it’s been
broken down for you by the coach and all
these things and Young acad me players I
found it at Derby actually when I
managed and it was my first job so I I
was learning all the time but older
players didn’t want to watch themselves
back didn’t want too much analysis it
was almost like how I would have been it
was you know it wasn’t our thing whereas
the younger players who have been
through the academy was like go and tell
me can you they come to you in your
office can you show me the things that
you’re not happy with and all that so
everything’s changed in that sense so I
think you can start to be much more you
can you can get those Visual and give
the information but that’s where a
danger can come because a parent well
there’s two things that we’ve just taken
from this first 10 minutes
youen bvw withad there that’s what I’m
going to do I’m going to shout on my kid
I’m going to get the best at him you
don’t know if that’s going to work and
then secondly what Frank’s going to do
is because he’s got unbelievable
knowledge he’s played 600 games or
whatever he knows what it takes to trap
back and do the right things whereas a
parent might start telling their kid but
they’re telling them the completely the
wrong thing because they don’t know
really that what it takes or how you
know you play and you think you know it
but sometimes until you’ve actually done
it or been out on the pitch it isn’t
that easy m is it it isn’t I mean I
always say I think pitchers you know I’m
the same with Freddy I do it with Freddy
exactly what Frank Senor done with Frank
is I show him stuff just to show on on
The Bard like to go right when the
ball’s here you know you want to be
thinking about being here or there and
just giving pictures pictures are so
important on a football pitch I mean
brain beats anything in my opinion brain
beat you know that’s not luck what Frank
does when he erases a like when he
arrives late in the box and scores goals
that’s not luck that’s brain that’s and
that’s why I always say it’s all about
the brain you know football brain wins a
you know a puncher will beat a boxer one
out of 10 times that’s all the boxer
will batter the the puncher always
because he’ll out he’ll outthink him and
that’s why I always try and give Freddy
pictures it’s all about what to see on a
football pitch what you should be
looking for you know and where to be and
and that’s why you know you know Freddy
ain’t going to beat six players and
score a goal not no way he ain’t going
to do that them days are long gone so
can I just s that you you reminded me
was saying pictures there cuz that was
my dad saying to me and it was have
pictures of the game in your head and
now nowadays we call it scanning and I I
was a Relentless scanner didn’t even
know it really it became such a natural
thing for me um I know that that was
definitely pushed by my dad it was have
a picture of The Game and Watch around
was behind you so I just naturally did
it all the time was looking around to
see what was there so all all this stuff
can be learned I mean FR Paul’s boy is
doing so well at Chelsea in the under NS
and one of the things that people talk
about Freddy is his intelligence and his
awareness and I think cuz I’ve coached
him since he’s been like six so I’ve
seen his journey and I literally think
Paul I think you’ve had a massive
influence on it with all the
conversations that you’re having I even
think with Freddy in the car Journeys
and like listening to you on the phone
I’m sure he’s at soaking up information
but here watch players you know if we go
we go and watch Chelsea a lot so you
I’ll say watch watch him or watch him
you know Freddy’s always looking around
you know always you know if you when I
ever played football that’s all I ever
done if there was a throw on I’d I’d be
looking around like that I’d be scanning
where everything is you know you you
next time you watch next time you’re
sitting indoors on a cricket game’s on
watch a cricketer come in a good
cricketer who bats from 1 to five 1 to
six every ball will look around see
where they are you know and they they
won’t get caught on the boundary but a
number 11 com in he just goes oh give me
middle and then he smashes it gets
caught and he goes I didn’t know it what
was he doing there yeah and that’s you
know even it’s scanning I always every
time there was a FR i’ be this is this
is I knew what I was going to do before
I got the ball I think Frank when he
scores goals you know and jam when he’s
passing the ball you know Frank will see
the buildup he’ll see where people are
you know where am I going to make in a
run it’s not luck it’s a brain and
people underestimate a football brain
and that that’s why I think you know
people just think oh Frank arrived in
the box that was lucky you know Gary Lin
was the best you know used to hit the
post come back he was three yards out he
tap it in people go I could have scored
that well you couldn’t have cuz no one
else was standing there me this has
become this has become a really I would
say a new word scanning I hear a lot of
parents talk about it and you got to
scan two SEC the ball comes into someone
and they get caught and they go you got
to scan now a good player has figured
out 10 15 20 seconds ago two passes
before where it’s going next if it comes
to them so the scanning if you’re
scanning at the last second that’s too
late you’ve got to have a visualization
of where everybody is on the pitch and
when you’re playing well that is so
natural and don’t get me wrong there was
plenty of times when I felt like I had
blinkers on and you just can’t see where
where a player is on the pitch because
your confidence is low and you can’t
quite see it but this this thing about
scanning you’ve got to tell your kids to
know where the ball is going to come two
passes before it’s even come to you and
if you know that you half the chge would
you agree Frank I I completely agree and
I think the the the thing for me in
terms of giving the information whether
you be a parent or a coach it’s like why
why are you scanning like you it’s easy
it’s easy for a a parent or a coach to
say you have to scan and look around
what what you looking for what space are
you looking for where’s the pressure
coming from all those things so I think
again in terms of information giving the
right information these Buzz words you
can flick I flick sometimes on social
media and I have coaches telling me all
these things you know and you kind of
think but practically why what what what
is that session for and what is it doing
sure there’s a lot of great coaches out
there but if it was my boy be like so
here’s why you’re scanning for because
you cuz if you got someone you might
have to BP it off one touch and then you
got to move again and then you got to
see what’s on the other side of the
pitch so yeah and and a lot of that SN
you say that Freddy Mercy’s Freddy is is
benefited from mer course he has but
he’s also benefi from his DNA because
he’s he’s probably got a bit where he’s
going like I’ve got the abilities I
think that again We Come Back To Nature
and nurture he definitely you got to
have I think you can scan but if you
haven’t got the the the presence of the
touch or the feel of it then I think you
can scam it’s not it doesn’t matter so I
think it’s it’s always both my opinion
we had so Frank and I growing up just so
if people don’t realize our moms were
sisters cuz people probably think your
talent come we’re first cousins but the
Talent come from the dads obviously it
came from my mom’s and and papa Bill
who’s a carpenter who had no ability did
he whatsoever but he could make a bird
cage um and so so Frank so we would
sometimes nepotism would get leveled at
us um which obviously was Pro completely
unfounded in the end but do you think
that if you hadn’t had the back the
background and your dad Etc do you think
you would have still made a footballer I
wouldn’t be sure no I wouldn’t be sure
because I don’t think my natural Talent
was that stand out I was never probably
the first the best kid at school or in
my team at Heath park or whatever as I
went up the ranks in in West Ham you
team ask so you wasn’t even the best
team in your in your grassroot sorry you
wasn’t even the best player on your
Grassroots team no I mean I I would say
it’ be a close call but I had Michael
Black was in my team come through
Arsenal brother Tommy black was bit
younger came through after me Michael
Black was the one that we were all
talking about and then in the West Ham
youth team I had Lee Hodges and and
Manny me I can’t pronounce his second
made money but they were in the England
under 15s and 16s and I wasn’t so and I
was I was jealous of them do you know
what I mean so I as part of it was
probably that innate thing inside me I
wanted to be I always had an ability to
an obsession to train to try and make up
gaps um but I don’t think without the
the absolute false of pressure around me
uh that I necessarily would have made it
because I don’t think my my talent was
that stand out my biggest talent was my
work ethic and my drive and my push in
my opinion do you think in this day and
age now do you think that goes under the
carpet the work rate do you know the
importance people think oh you know
other things but the M the main thing
you got I always say I said it on the
last show there’s one thing you got to
have to be a professional footballer and
if you haven’t got that you’ll never be
one is hard work yeah is hard work I
think that gets brushed under the carpet
a lot I think people go oh talent talent
but if you haven’t got that work work
effort you know you got to work hard I
do I agree with and you know what I I
find slightly frustrating is there are
so many now we’ll we’ll have so much
video thrown in our faces and and I say
thrown is the wrong word good stuff you
know you you see Kobe Bryon will come up
and talk about his path career and it’ll
be I was up at 4 in the morning bang
bang bang LeBron all of them all the the
stories of top athletes generally and a
lot of the young players will be
influenced by it I’m a big fan of his
but then they missed a point you
actually you got to do it do you know
what I mean like you can talk about it a
lot and these because these Elite
Sportsmen can talk about it and it’s
part of their story but what does that
look like for you so what does that mean
if you’re a Winger because I’ve had
conversations with a coach about
arriving at the back post like like
Rahim Sterling did for City like most
Salah does all the Best Wingers now they
got to score 15 goals plus this season
or they’re not worth their assult really
and you can see the nodding sometimes
you know yeah of course you have and you
go okay so what does that need it needs
a stamina because you got to be able to
arrive there it means understanding that
when the ball’s on that side you’re
already inside and wanted to do it and
take all those things and a lot of it is
hard work and and dedication and
application on repeating the same thing
again and again to be be that good at it
so it becomes like a something you don’t
even think about would you say that you
were such a hardworking player because
of your
dad
um that’s the one I can’t answer cuz it
was so young I’ve only known my life as
this I’ve only known my life as a dad
that was pushing me so if he wasn’t
there to push me in that was your Go For
Those runs that you used to go for
possibly not possibly not because I was
sort of my my dad was putting a black
bag on me and running me two like two
miles around the block room when I was 8
years old that wasn’t probably not
normal as such at the time I did my
mates Wen doing it for sure so I don’t
know whether that became that became me
so I don’t know the answer to that I’d
guess maybe not okay can you remember
your inner voice
like as as a young player coming up can
you remember the type of things that
would be going on in your mind um yes or
no I mean like it’s I probably grew up
with where where it was quite a straight
um my upbringing in terms of like it
wasn’t like I never had the do this son
and you’ll become a professional it was
like if you don’t do it you won’t become
a professional it more almost more of a
fear element of what how much how easy
it is to foul so I probably was a bit
more stressed than like um seeing the
posit I I need to make it as a
footballer so I put pressure on myself I
need to do all these things that I’m
being told I need to do extra this extra
that be fitter be this be better with my
left foot be better at this so the inner
the inner voice was one probably of
always um wanting to be better which is
quite a stressful thing as a kid because
you’re actually always feeling that but
you know I don’t want to make it sound
too St my life growing up was uh
probably from about 12 years of AG was
training at Arsenal one night a week
training at Tottenham one night a week
training at West Ham one night a week
playing for my school team Wednesday and
Saturdays and planing for Heath par my
club team on Sunday so I so I was so
much engulfed in all this sort of
training um that it was all there it was
all it was there for me and I just had
to work through it all and at the same
time I was picking up different things
from all these different great coaches
Johnny Martin back at Tottenham back in
the day was an amazing coach for young
players Tottenham were doing stepovers
and things at West Ham was a bit more
old school Arsenal was a great Academy
that was C at that time so I was I was
fortunate that I was picking up so many
different things and I had the home the
football family I think that helped us
as well cuz five years between Frank and
I and I used to get a lot of
satisfaction talking to you talking to
you sometimes and I think you know we’
work in the summer holidays Frank would
come down with his mom and dad and we’d
go out in the garden for hours and just
practice and play and try to learn off
each other and I think that was also so
important yeah so many things are just
practical things that’s why hard work
and training is is the answer because
when I went down to Jam’s house we used
to hit a bird cage I was probably
focused on a lot of other things I was
never probably at that point like a
where Jamie was different would probably
be more of a Midfield player that F
passes I was more of a get up and down
of trying to arrive in the box so when I
see that and I watched Jamie Clipper
ball with a different technique to what
so I sucked that up I saw him doing he
was hitting it much more than me and
hitting it and bending it and then
fizzing it and all these things and I
remember taking that ball without that
would I have you know I mean moved on
another little step so I was all the
good bits that were there for me the
luck of the football environment at the
time was that it was there and probably
the good good things I can probably take
a bit of credit myself was that I took
them all on board and fortunate to be
able to look up to someone like you
because you were that five years ahead
of me Jamie was in the Liverpool first
team when I was still a kid and I was
like I want to be that how do I get
there it’s got to be work should
practice you hold the record in the
Premier League for the most goals
Outside the Box 41 goals outside the
box how did how does that happen like
yeah um going same answer is it it’s
practice it’s um I probably you know I
had I had a decent technique is for as
long as I can remember like I could
shoot but so can many a kid but I would
just recreate sessions as I got older um
and as I got more confident I would
recreate them even more CU When You’re
Young I think you feel a bit embarrassed
I did at the time to go and do your own
stuff to much you can be ridiculed a bit
when I was in West Ham academy I look at
him like goody two shoes going out doing
more more training but I always used to
recreate and if I missed shots um at the
weekend or in a game I would recreate
that in the week and I’d work um about
moving the ball quickly and getting out
my feet and hitting all different sorts
of shots and developing and then then
come the weekend you can you know you
can get a hold of them or you can you
can miss hit one that might go in it’s
it’s just it’s just like you know you
make yourself lucky at the weekend by
what you do for the week so as a kid did
you have an amazing shot a good shot
yeah the night you had a lovely strike
yeah I had a good shot it was a good
strike yeah I was a good shot I’ll tell
you what I didn’t have I didn’t have a
left foot strike and um as I got to sort
of the academy sorry like the youth team
age um I started working on my left foot
lows and it got much better to the point
where cuz I actually felt like I need I
needed something because I wasn’t a
trickster I needed to at least have the
idea I could go both ways on someone and
so as if someone knows you’re always
going to shift it on to your right and
you’re not that quick you haven’t got
that much I didn’t I didn’t really have
that sort of a step over body so of get
away from someone always um once I could
take it on my left and get shots away
and I scored a fair few goals with my
left foot in the end a bit by and
actually just you know that you can have
some the fear that you can go that way
which can get you back on your right
foot anyway there’s lots of stories
Frank and Dad obviously spoke about when
he was your manager at West Ham that you
always go and do your extra work you
have your spikes and you go do finishing
always on your own how much of that is
true and how much should people
understand that’s what made you the
player you are yeah it is true it is
true and um again it’s I feel like I’m
saying similar stuff but it was uh it
was my I was clearly not like the
fastest player my dad’s I think my dad
had lived the same life he he’ born
spikes as a kid and as a player actually
through his career I think so he he of
used to push me to wear spikes running
spikes in the garden do Sprints and then
I used to take them to West Ham and hide
them go out and do him in the afternoon
obviously got clocked a bit doing it
took him to Chelsea when I first got
there which the players couldn’t believe
like you know cuz they were it was
almost a bit more of a snobby Squad
because they were like World Cup winners
there West Ham hadn’t been there and
they were always like you going just
sign for 11 million quid and you got to
go and do spikes over the back it was
like a little bit I felt I felt funny
about it probably did it for about a
year at Chelsea and then and then bummed
it out but I I did all that stuff A lot
of it was that what made you needed that
though and made you made you tip almost
yeah yeah I wouldn’t say I loved it no
no one loves going over in a cold um
afternoon and doing extra you know
spikes and all those things it’s not
necessarily something you love but I
definitely love the idea of what it
would give me what age did your dad get
you to start using spikes really young
i’ probably say probably about 10 years
of age 10 years of age yeah nine 10
years of age can you buy spikes on
Amazon for twoyear olds you know going
order some for rapper quickly get
sers sketches sketches sket he’s got it
in Paul you you were looking to get
Freddy to do some Athletics work weren’t
you yeah yeah I yeah I just think you
get brainwashed like you’re watching
watching training everybody’s quick
everybody’s strong and you know Freddy’s
different kind of player and I think
right I need to get him to getting
quicker and all that and it’s like it’s
such a hard one it’s the heads or tails
do you know what I mean cuz at the same
time he’s a different kind of player you
know
yeah I is a hard one I I think that is
so in you what Frank’s doing I so
underestimated I know his dad but you
know you to be that mentally strong to
go for 11 million pound go to Chelsea
one of the big clubs and still go you
know what I’m going to go and run you
know that that’s just ex unique it’s
extreme not extreme but I mean that
that’s just one in a million do you know
what I mean we could sit here and
interview another I mean 10,000
footballers and they wouldn’t even have
that thought in their head I wouldn’t I
didn’t I don’t think Jamie did you know
I’m going to put I did Why didn’t it
work then no I did I had that work ethic
I used to do I used to do it and I think
Frank’s dad was the same my dad was the
same my dad did it from a point of view
I don’t think cuz he did it as much
whereas Frank senior did it so he’s
probably saying I know what it what it
takes and I know you got to do the extra
work so that I think that’s see if you
see players now you know they get a big
massive 5year contract and it’s like huh
yeah switch off you know you see we’ve
seen it a million times but to go and
get to a club and go you know what this
is what got me here I’m going to keep on
doing the same things that got me here
when other people get a new contract and
they go well I’ve done what I need to do
now you know it’s it’s honestly it’s so
underestimated like you know I’m Blown
Away listening to it cuz you know to say
that you know to go to Chelsea and then
still do it for another year is it’s
just but it was a m i so I when I signed
for Liverpool as a 17y old and not to
the you know when Frank was 11 million
but there there was certain pressures
and i’ I’d had an environment with my
dad at Bournemouth where after training
we’d all stay behind me and a couple of
the other Lads and we practice our
shooting passing so we got to Liverpool
and in those days you used to get on on
a bus and and from anfield to Melwood
and then you come back in the same kit
and then everyone would just go home and
I was like and I wasn’t in the first
team I was like this isn’t working for
me I need to do more I want to just keep
practicing my shooting so remember sat
at the coaches there was a guy called
Ronnie Manan who was a fantastic coach
lovely guy tough as they come and I said
look Ronnie can I go uh back and and do
some training what do you mean son he
said you you you’ve done enough I went
no I need to do I want to do my bits and
he was like well not no one really does
it and I was like well can I take a bag
of balls so I said get my bag of balls
and I go back to the training ground and
like Frank said I used to get a load of
stick off the other Lads they used to
look at me and go look it in the ey ask
liquor who you know what you what you
trying to get I said no listen you do
you and I do me and all of a sudden then
someone else would come then you get two
then you get three people doing it and
then all a sudden then you create an
environment and of a culture of success
and that’s sometimes What It Takes and I
think that’s a really amazing thing what
Frank says because if you don’t look
listen to this as a young player and
hopefully there’s young players Academy
players that are in in their car with
their dad that are 14 15 that want to be
a footballer think they want to be a
footballer but they think they want a
footb that’s the difference how much do
you want to bit how much do you want to
do it how much do you want to sacrifice
how much you want to be like a Frank
Lampard that’s going to go for runs and
do the other bits that make the
difference and not worry about what
anyone else thinks of you and that’s
what it takes well you when he towards
the end of my career when I was at
England David Beckham got into the team
and he was playing we used to wait for
him we used to get on the coach to go
back to the hotel and he’d be doing free
kicks for 30 minutes you know people
think oh he’s a good free kick taker
he’s a good free kick taker cuz he just
kept on practicing and practice and
everybody’s on the coach waiting and he
just bang bang bang you
know that and it’s hard work hard work
gets you every gives you every chance
this why I always say to people don’t
let it be that it was you didn’t work
hard enough don’t get to that even when
I was manager at w I used to play don’t
get to the stage where you finish and
you think could have done more you know
question M and this is something that I
get asked Frank and you’re going to get
it with Freddy so you’re going to stand
on the sidelines when you get as you get
older and every parent going to be like
is Frank Lampard there I’m going to ask
him the question what does it take to
make a footballer and the truth is I
can’t come up with a better answer than
work hard exactly practice do you not
agree I I do and I’ve been cting that a
lot as well and you feel like you’ve
almost like not given them enough when
you say they want to go go no there’s
another magic potion not as hard you
know what I mean but it it is and also
like now you you balance it because how
old you know your boy or your daughter
they go what they five you know what
hard work but enjoy enjoy the game you
know the hard work will come as you as
you go through it but the reality is if
the big question is I want them to be a
player it is hard work it’s the same
things we’re talking about practice and
rep and and work smart because also you
got to get the right idea of what you do
need like if it is agility like you’re
talking about which was my thing you
then focus on that you know what I mean
and that’s when I think you got to get
the balance of what your coaches are
going to give you as opposed to what
your parents will because sometimes you
listen to the coach because they’re
trained to give you that advice and they
might see something in your game that
app parent doesn’t quite see because
they’re just comparing you to another
kid who they think’s getting in front of
you or something might not be the same
can I ask m a question because I
listened back to a our last podcast and
you said something that for the last for
the next couple of days I thought about
it a lot and you spoke about Freddy and
you were like Freddy’s only going to be
this player he’s only going to get it
and he’s only going to give it and that
actually bothered me because I think
that if you if you believe that that’s
all you’re ever going to be like Frank
was um he I think he’s a good example
Frank was you know good good young
player but he turned himself into the
best goal scoring Midfield player we’ve
ever seen I don’t care there will never
be anyone that gets his numers so why
why do you not think that it’s important
for Freddy to have different facets to
his game
uh in that way when I say get and give
you know man city are the the greatest
team in the world yeah the greatest team
there’s one player that has to play on
that team and if he doesn’t play that
team ain’t clicking and that’s rodri
do you know what I mean he gives and
goes Paul skull’s give and go you know
he could pass the ball but it was give
and go you know Freddy plays you know
he’s got to play a certain way I was
that kind you know I run with a ball but
I I could find a pass you know certain
players knit together you know and I
think Freddy’s Freddy’s not going to get
the ball and beat four players I mean
there’s kids at Chelsea I mean they go
past people like they got feet like
Freddy’s go one they can’t oh yeah no
short dribbles yeah I’m not talking
about course you have to go past people
you have to go past field but what I’m
saying is give and go make sure you’re
quick make sure you’re sharp he’s got to
be quick up here quick up here do you
know what I mean where he gets aborn he
goes bang and he and he moves it quickly
that’s what I see him that’s the kind of
player I see him as you know that kind
of player where you maybe like be point
PR but like a PO skulls in a way not
like you know that kind of player where
he’s not electric but you can’t get near
him do you know what I mean he’s always
going to be one step ahead where they
flick it around the corner and they go
again and they get it back you you know
he ain’t going to get I don’t want you
know I hate this thing of where I hear
coaches go right your thing now is to
stay on the ball no why why what just to
keep on losing the ball but you’re
staying on it what what that’s just
killing the kid that’s killing the kid
you know certain players you go right
bang you stay the playing play the what
you’re good at and this what I asked
Frank about position wise you know was
he always a Midfield player cuz Freddy
played up front last week Freddy ain’t
going to be a center it was just a waste
of 20 minutes in his life you know it
was like he stayed up front never played
up there so if you’re not a center
forward what you going to learn in 20
minutes of football yeah but he is 9
years old or eight I don’t care if he’s
9 10 or 27 you learn the game now in my
opinion I think I think we get this
thing of like oh they’re only
nine just wait till they’re 15 16 you
don’t get to 1516 if you don’t put in
the work now you don’t get to 1516 you
know you got to you know there’s
millions of kids there’s not like just
16 kids at Chelsea or 12 or 15 at
Arsenal they’re all over the country you
have to you have to start now cuz what
will happen if you’re not doing it now
Chelsea will just go and get someone
from Brighton at 12 or Southampton if
they’re better than you so you got you
got to start now and I got I got to work
on things with Freddy that he’s good at
you know and then when he’s mastered
that and he’s really good at that and
then we’ll go right now we we go and
move on to that I think at the moment in
football I find Academy football it’s
like you got to be brilliant at 15
things or not brilliant at 15 all right
at 15 they’re not going to get you
anywhere being all right won’t get you
anywhere won’t get you anywhere you know
you’re all right I’ve played with you
you’re all
right what not a footballer are you do
you know what I mean you’re all right
and that’s what I mean you got so what I
say to Freddy right get it give it pass
it move then then we’ll move on to
something else no sorry can I just say
when when you said stay on the ball
there before are you talking about at
Freddy’s age that that now the coaches
are trying to say just stay on it yeah
they say to kids they say to kids like
just stay on it just stay on it as long
as like we’re seeing now in in the
Premier League and in top level football
where Center ARS are put their foot on
the ball you talk about oh no no I mean
dribble
dribble dribble with the ball the
concept is that children learn through
touches of the ball so yeah the idea is
yeah just get learning through through
touching it but rather than move it
quickly as such yeah it’s a they have a
thing they have a thing in football that
it’s
like go and do what you want dribble
stay on the ball as long as you want and
at 12 we’ll learn you how to pass the
ball got which I’m like Blown Away with
I’m blown away because I don’t see how
you’re getting
pictures you know you’re getting
pictures from a young age in my opinion
like your dad did with you and he’s
going right don’t get beat on that or
football’s all about pitures you know
you watch every Premier League game but
they say to you like stay on the ball
and I’m seeing kids stay on the ball cuz
that’s what their performance thing is
and they’re losing it and I’m thinking
what are you
learning yeah I it’s just my op I seeing
I mean it’s just opinions it’s like like
so I Fred is not sorry but Fred is not a
dribbler right and I I what Jamie said
the other week when we was on and it’s
true if he was a dribbler be going just
keep on just keep on roasting him you
know what I mean but the problem is and
people don’t understand is it’s all
right now because you’re going past
people that have got no interest in in
defending when you get you know and I
know CU we played the game is when I get
to 17 18 19 I’m coming up against people
who just want to defend they don’t care
about anything else they just want to
defend they work out what you’re good at
what you’re bad at then that’s when you
got to move the ball quickly I’m just
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training facility in your area taking it
back for when you were like five six
years old do you think Scouts now would
Scout a Frank
Lampard um yeah I would say so I I would
reckon I would have shown enough in
terms of my sort of talent or whatever
it was level of that age and my football
awareness I would like I’d like to think
so I think it’s quite hard to compare
though like what would that have looked
like would your shot have been shining
yeah as Jamie said I probably could
always catch hold of it and could always
have a good shot I think I would have
been a decent awareness as a Midfield
player to move the ball yeah probably
would look at me and I know this I’ve
spoken even when I wasit older where
people go can he get around the pitch
enough would have been a which probably
to be fair now with how athletic I see
the acm’s now would have been more of a
problem I think the game’s moving
further in that direction in terms of
athleticism I don’t know whether that’s
now we’re coaching young kids better
they’re getting that sort of agility
work that maybe wasn’t so well known in
our day because I remember when I moved
to Chelsea and actually and Sven said it
to me once with England um cuz I
probably in my early England days let my
lacks a bit of the agility that I
probably worked on and got better at but
he was what you do it training and I
actually said I do Sprints you know wear
spikes or do this I love doing practical
stuff with a ball turn quickly get a
shot away he went do you do much quick
feet stuff and I was like no not really
I don’t really do that and as I then
started to be effective by other coaches
and get another idea I started to do
more quick feet stuff which maybe give
me another Edge now I see videos of my
my mates boys that are seven years old
doing quick feet with individual coaches
ories so so it’s moved on a long way so
probably I would have been it’s like
saying you know would a tennis player
from 70 years ago be out to play against
you know federal or would they have got
better rackets they’re better trained
but the talent levels are always with
there it’s just you know it’s just ch
it’s just changed regarding what they’ve
got around them to get the most out of
it so my my answer probably be I think I
would get SC yeah people people say
about Fitness and they say all a game
you know the one thing I hear because
you play now the fitness and all that
Fitness has not changed that much in a
way where Sebastian Co and Steve over
are still some of the quickest 850 meter
runners in the world of Athletics and
that was 30 years ago do you know what I
mean it’s like when Frank just said that
if it’s moved on that quick I never see
I never see anybody going to do what
Frank’s done again getting 20 goals from
Midfield going the way he played so I
don’t I don’t is it the fitness CH or
just the tactics of the game’s changed
and we’ve become more you know we
sitting with a holding Midfield player
now and sometimes maybe two holding
Midfield players where years ago would
that have been a case where if you’re
making runs forward it don’t matter if
you lose your man cuz you’ve still got
the number six waiting to pick you up do
you what I mean so you know I I don’t
know I I right what Jamie said the other
week is The Game’s changing you don’t
know what the game’s going to look like
in another 15 years time but at the
moment I find and
I I
find the first tick the box now is an
athlete and then we’ll go from from
there you know one of the best players I
ever played with was Teddy sheram I
thought I mean if you’re talking about
pitches in your head and brain wise
you’d be sitting here now G would he
play
today I don’t know I don’t know and and
that’s the thing I just I look it I
think now it’s like if you could if
you’re quick and you’re strong and
you’re an athlete bang and then we’ll go
from there and we’ll try and make you
pass the ball and we’ll try and make you
do this instead of before it was like
you had to be able to pass the ball or
do something and then we’ll teach you
how to be quick well you you were the
first Chelsea manager to really give
young players a chance Frank in that
Academy 100% um when you look at the
Academy system for what it is and and
and your time as management what do you
like about it and what do you dislike
about it the Chelsea Academy anymy um I
I know that yeah I supp I know that
Chelsea Academy most because I think
Neil barford and and Jim FR and what
they’ve done there you know the academy
obviously well um is they’ve they’ve
brought through what I see cuz I’ve
worked with a few you say good kids
generally of a good idea so they’ve
given them a good well-rounded idea on
life and the game and good players so
most of those ones that have come
through I was lucky enough to work with
because they I did give them a chance
but I we had the transfer band so it was
kind of like was timing work for me but
they also then had to get ahead of
players in front of them we were still
there Mak to get in front of Ross barley
Tammy ahead of jiru or whatever so
credit to themselves but I think the
academy has produced really good kids
and it that that’s a work those a lot of
those boys have been there since they
was eight years of age so they had a
great tactical understanding they had a
great feeling for the club and so when
you have a young player come through
like that it’s like it’s just a win-win
all over the place they breathe energy
into the squad the fans absolutely
relate to them straight away and the
players are desperate to get that step
into the first G because they’re already
feeling the club doesn’t matter whether
they were a Tottenham fan when they were
kid they’re now Chelsea they’ve been
there since they’re eight so I I I can’t
speak hardly enough of the work that was
done there the thing that broke down
that was a problem I think before terms
of kids not getting a chance was either
the manager had no interest because they
they got to keep their job and they
don’t want to they don’t want to try a
kid out because it’s it takes too long
it’s too dangerous for them um and then
the communication of some of the
managers that whether they’re going to
use them or not we’re not that bothered
about it now I probably a bit different
my staff are all from the Academy I
understood the academy so our eyes are
already there to speak who who the good
ones bring them over we need them over
what can they do and I don’t think all
managers have done that so it was a bit
of a timing thing for me as well but I
think the academy had produced great
kids I think they were ahead of the game
I think now there’s a lot more teams
that there’s a lot more challengeing
them in terms ofies in terms of picking
the best kids out um so that sort of
leveled out a little bit and maybe not
an issue for Chelsea but you know they
probably had a good run of it where they
could really get those players and get
them in and do their work with them and
now those kids could be going elsewhere
and do you do you think Frank it all
depends how the first team are doing by
players choices do you I mean even eight
years of age or nine if you say you’re a
kid now and you’re seven or eight and
you’re just going to get signed by
Chelsea for like to move
on do you think it’s important do you
think parents are looking again Arsenal
are doing well Chelsea are not doing
that well do you think that makes a
difference in yeah I’m sure I’m I I
think right now if you’re living in in a
Northwest you’re looking at Liverpool
going look at the young players coming
through there I’ll put my kid there Mak
a big when Frank a manager and all those
players were coming through I’m sure
that yeah had a massive effect on but
now would you be sitting there if you as
a kid was eight are you going to Chelsea
or Arsenal cuz Arsenal are flying but
your kid still your kid still at least
10 years away from playing in the first
I think that’s where you got smart well
one question that came up last last time
we did the podcast and it was something
that I certainly felt and watching a lot
of youth kids is when baring one or two
that are just like Geniuses at eight or
nine you would be great example of
someone that you if you would have
judged you at 134 and said right this
this young man is going to go on and
become the greatest goal scoring
Midfield player this country’s ever
produced you probably wouldn’t have
believed it I hope you take that the
right way so do you think you need to
really you know sometimes have a
long-term view on players absolutely um
and there were too many examples of that
of players that Dean rice now Arsenal
was it Chelsea um and say didn’t make
the grade there for whatever reason in
that period of his um growing up um
moved on and now is for His Own Credit
having an amazing career but yeah I I do
I do think that it’s I’ve done it myself
as a coach um you can judge a young
player um by either watching them in a
youth Team game or bringing him over to
train with you in two three sessions and
you can probably go no I’m not not sure
about him but it might be uh how he
trains what he looks like on the pitch
his talent what his shows or even the
kid and I’ve I’ve sometimes and the
mistake I made in my early days of
coaching was probably judging the person
and the player in different examples and
going I’m sure about them and then you
realize it come back round actually know
they were a good kid a bit shy or
whatever you know they need they need to
develop a little bit they got this issue
going on at home he’s from this
background and also the talent I’ve had
some players I go I’m not sure about
them and then one or two three years
later they prove you wrong you know and
I think that’s a learning curve for me
cuz my I’ve not really had a I went
through an academy it was a long time
ago now a coach went straight into sort
of first team football I don’t do the
day-to-day work so I would definitely
rely much more on a word of someone
who’s worked in the academy to go no no
this kid Rees James is a good example I
think I I didn’t live this but ree when
he was at a certain age wasn’t you know
developed didn’t look physically maybe
like he was going to be what he is now
which I think when he’s fit one of the
best right backs in the world but at
that point I think there were a time
when they we struggling a little bit and
we weren’t sure about him and this one
was ahead of him now the one that’s
ahead of him is nowh to be saying and
REE James is that player so I think
you’ll be very careful to judge give
give you got look at it as a big picture
thing and and as M said that’s not easy
because the minute you have a badge ear
someone else comes in you put by the way
side so I think that’s when you have
real real goodies and real good you know
management of it and your mindset I want
to take you back Frank this famous video
when Dad talks about you and he says
about you will go right to the very top
I I often look at that video it pops up
on my social media and I can see your
face and you don’t want to be there it’s
a you put in a horrible position but in
your inner voice as Shan says were you
thinking to yourself absolutely I’m
going right to the top no no I wasn’t no
I wasn’t I I was embarrassed um I hadn’t
been I was at fans for and I hadn’t been
asked the question all night no one
cared about me it was like Peter story
was getting it was the sporting director
whatever would have been director time
was getting hammered for whatever you
know recruitment ticket prices I sat on
the end of not a word and then this Flo
um wants to have a pop at me and I
didn’t no I didn’t I wasn’t I wasn’t
that type Jam I was
again I probably goes back to having a
fear of not making it um all from I’m
being told how hard it is to make it and
I’m sitting there sort of getting a step
into the first team I didn’t feel madly
comfortable when I got in the first team
I wasn’t I wasn’t a Wayne Rooney or just
go yeah here I am it was like a baby
step played all right but realized that
the level was quite big so I wasn’t
sitting again no problem I’m going to
prove him wrong the opposite I’d say
when was when how old was you Frank when
you sort of worked out and you went to
make it I need to be a box to boox score
goals um and not someone no disrespect
but be a Jamie who’s going to stand
there and spray balls around all over
the pitch and have that Vision you what
I mean yeah probably about six 15 16 I
would say just as I got into the West
Ham youth team and then and then the
stakes Rose from you know Sunday League
football whatever it had been and left
score and go into there and you realize
that this is now professional job and
what do I want what do I want to do and
what do I need to do to do it and um
that’s when I really realized it I
didn’t want to be an average Midfield
player and that’s not to say James
average you were very good at doing
things that were much more from the
middle of apart find those part it
wasn’t naturally my game I think I got
better at that but at the same time the
thing I I did feel like I could do
better was to arrive and I had periods
where I probably did get a bit cozy in
the middle of the park and just sort of
sit there and that’s when I was lucky
that i’ have probably my dad G me the
wait got to get running the get in the
Box on it’s not know it’s not good
enough I can you know it’s funny as you
say that I can visual get in the Box he
just sh didn’t he yeah get in the Box
he’s like you know what it’s money it’s
it’s money yeah I say that I say that to
the kids the young players coached at
Chelsea and Everton and it’s still a
frustration of mine Drew Bellingham now
does it we had a conversation about the
other day didn’t you I’m watching Drew
Bellingham now arriving and getting in
the Box Conor Gallagher does it a bit
for Chelsea he constantly aring and your
ratio means that you arrive 10 15 times
you get one or two chances and people
say you’re lucky it’s a frustration of
mine I think and I don’t know whether
we’re still there but modern Midfield
players became much more about you know
being involved in build and short passes
and that and I’m a bit like if you’ve
got the capacity to get in there and the
want and the drive get get in there and
get yourself on a selfish note it’s the
money do you know what I mean I don’t
mean the money it’s the one that will
make you an ego I want to be known as
the that if that’s what I’m good at and
I can do it I was there any a coach
sorry was there any a coach that used to
say well wait there a minute don’t keep
one going Frank yeah don’t keep one
going I know where you going all the
time it wasn’t your dad it would be it
would be uh well towards back end of M
Chelsea Career would be um Rafa Bonz it
a
shock we didn’t get on great now he he
it was the system at the time he came in
vsb us a bit um where we started to play
with two and I was one of the two sixes
they were starting to bring in the the
matters de bruyne was there a short
period of time but we had a lot of
number 10 Hazard came in and played
their occasionally in my latter years so
they did them but to be fair by that
time I was probably ready to go play
there and I can time a run now again if
it’s a game where we’re at home and
we’re confident I know I can arrive a
lot more if we go play Bayern Munich in
the Champions League final was me and
Obie spent 120 Minutes just doing that
just trying to cover space so you you
balanced it out but no in my in my
younger Capello with England Capello
we’re in a two we had that rigid 442
yeah and it was you can’t really go and
how did you feel that cuz like you’re
sitting there you must think well I’m
one of the best in the world at this
this at doing what I do and then I’m
getting asked to like sit back now and
and you’re sort of you’re taking a lot
of your game or what you know a lot you
game of course you are you know as you
say we’re sitting I’m not saying it
because you’re sitting no one’s ever
going to do what you do again well you I
say to you know it’s like saying to me
right right you’re playing don’t try and
hit that pass don’t try and hit that
pass I just want you to play safe now
yeah but the thing is so Bo’s 15 and he
wants to be a Midfield player so when
I’m trying to find the analogy to him of
like just don’t just stay in there and
play and pass you got to get forward get
in the Box I said and I always say like
Frank La not cuz he’s my cousin just say
that it’s it’s hard to think of anybody
else just try and think of anybody I
can’t think of anybody so when I say
about just get and he s of say like you
know and I said watch videos him he said
yeah he said just had a you know Great
Neck and I said what what what’s what is
the secret and I’m like you just got to
gamble sometimes you know what and if
you don’t run in there you you won’t
score because every now and again one
will Bobble to you and you know a few
Ricochet or clean strikes just get onto
that edge of the box I always think and
I don’t know if when I when I I’ve got
Vis I visualize your goals it’s that one
and the penalty spot always felt like an
area for you to attack that was like it
it was your your moment like and I was
trying to play against you a couple of
times I think you scored um we scored a
few goals when I played against
certainly one at Chelsea when I I was
marking you and all game I thought i’
done it right i’ done it right and then
I’m starting to get a bit tired you know
getting older and then you just went in
I thought I’ll let you go one this last
time and you just got behind me and just
side footed it in but that was your
domain in that area yeah yeah it was but
I I I sort of you know S I was I was
fortunate in a way that I played in a
system up until those latter years at
Chelsea where we were 433 a lot so I did
have the protective six and I was
probably the up and down eight and the
other eight was a bit of a balance to me
but I do think I I learned the
Simplicity of of of um of an idea and I
think most things in football things are
simple things done well and repeated and
and even the idea and as a left-sided
eight which I generally was my Mantra
was when we when we’re building low on
near the halfway line I like to come out
I like to be a bit deeper now we talk
about false fallback I wasn’t quite that
but and luckily I had Ashley Cole just
going getting on his bike and muda was
coming off the line so that’s where I
want to be as we moved up the pitch if
the ball was on my side of the pitch on
that left side I would stay connected to
that if the ball was on the other side
of pitch I’m ready to go and that was
basic my basic Mantra of it like I knew
that if the ball switched out to that
side I’m going to be in and around close
enough to the box to get in there and
then the last point of that which I
think is good for young Midfield players
is that once you make that run that
action might not be the one that gets
you the goal be the next one or the next
one so don’t just standing there you got
to make then you got to move and then
you got to come back out but to go back
in there again and then you’re then
you’re up there and that’s when your
numbers start coming up because you’re
actually phys there you’ve got to expect
like with you though you went in to
expect a score yeah you know I I I’m a
big fan of Conor gallager I like Conor
but at the cut final the other week he
was I felt like he was just getting in
the the box cuz I’m told to get in the
Box you know the one when he hits the
post I don’t think he I think he just
turns up in the Box he doesn’t go in the
box and go you know this is going to
come to me and I’m I’m putting it was
like oh and he sort of dragged his shot
and he hit the post the thing with with
Frank was Frank went in expecting to
score you know you went in expecting to
score I think a lot of people go in cuz
they’re told to go in and it’s like I
made that run he’s done all that work in
the background so like he got that shot
like you know in your mind that you’re
getting in that position and you’re
going to get that finish and like it’s
all the hours and hours and hours like
I’m so interested in the root of why
things happen and there was a
conversation that we Happ earlier and I
didn’t want to interrupt it but I’m
thinking to myself all right we’re
talking about the result here but it’s
the practice hours that are creating the
result what has created that much
practice and then I’m going well his dad
and that relationship they had and the
inner voice and that is something that’s
driving you to practice that March so
then we then take it into that amount of
goals and it’s 303 goals in a th000
games roughly um 211 goals for Chelsea
um but yeah like for parents to
understand well all right and maybe
they’re not going to replicate that but
yeah how can they create that type of
mindset for their child and that
environment you don’t think it’s
possible Paul oh of course is possible
but you got to have you got to want it
you know Frank senior is not telling
Frank when he goes to Chelsea for 11
million pound to go around the back and
keep on doing sprints do you know what I
mean you have you know the parent will
give you so much and they will they’ll
give you so much and they’re in bed and
I think at an early age but when you get
to a certain age and I find it with kids
now I find do they really want to play
football or is it their parent who wants
them to play yeah when they get to a
certain age it’s going to be the player
himself and that’s when it like I you
can put everything into him but you want
to have to want it yourself you have to
want it your parent can only take you so
far of course they can they give you so
much but when you get to a certain age
at 14 15 16 when you can make the right
decisions and you know all these hurdles
of of whatever it might be get your
mates going out and things like people
go oh my God look at the dream you
liveed I never got to marer and all them
places I never went I be
I mean I you know for our like I I was
so disciplined when I was a kid real
goody goody weren you I was until I made
it and then it went a bit scoo but I got
the right what I did I made sure I got
to where I I worked hard to get where I
got people think oh luxury player my God
I worked harder than anybody when I was
a kid worked harder than so it’s
interesting when you talk about because
I I always you know when I think about
Bo so Bo’s now 15 and this is the first
time and it’s hard you I certainly put
any pressure on him I’m I’m starting to
look and I’m talking these weeks right
so we might have a conversation another
year and it might have changed well I’m
looking thinking you’re actually
starting to get this a little bit I’m
now seeing like work rate I’m and I’m
seeing somebody that really cares and
after games we’re talking about it what
do you think about this Dad whereas when
I was 8 nine 10 and I’d take him to like
Chelsea Academy and had a long day at
school and I to look at him and think
this ain’t for you today little man is
it and I’d still take him and I’d watch
him and he he didn’t Maybe train as well
and he’d walk around a little bit and I
used to be like afterwards oh you got to
do better you got to work harder and I
and IED to think I I didn’t like myself
for the way I was with him you know even
now I feel uncomfortable talking about
that because it wasn’t in the right
place you know and now he’s starting to
get it and I’m thinking well is that
because I I I drilled him that much when
he was young or is it because he’s now
just doing it because he wants to do it
you know it’s it’s such a fine line as
you know the youth coach as a dad
judging how to push your kids and when
is it actually too much and when
sometimes when you’re going to take him
and I don’t care if it’s an academy at
Liverpool or Chelsea and you look at
them and they’re tired and you know
they’re not going to get hardly anything
out of that session when you just go you
know what mate let’s go home it’s not
this ain’t you know you’re tired today
maybe let’s go back and and and we’ll do
something else or maybe we’ll just know
watch a film together or let’s go and
have a little bit of fish and chips or
something cuz some parents might go oh
you’ve got to take your kid you got to
take you got to push them but the truth
is that one session isn’t going to make
a lot of difference in a bigger scheme
of things because I’m seeing like as I
say we’re B that and I’ve said to Frank
a lot of times and spoken I’ve even got
Frank to speak to him on the phone and I
could s like Frank just have a chat with
about how how ‘s working and I’m
listening to Frank and I’m I want to go
out in the garden and play but B’s
looking and going yeah all right you
know I’ll take it if I wanted but
there’s only so much you can do with
your kids and you’ve got to judge it
each time do you get that Frank what I’m
trying to say I completely get it and
you’re unique in that response in that
respect yeah and that’s was so hungry to
go back to Mercy Point as a kid as a
player I was so hungry to score goals
and so hungry to do well because that’s
what you know I knew would be my sort of
big selling point if you want to call it
that that I would always be so obsessed
with it and I would create create U
practices of finishing in the box so as
you say I’m ready for when it drops on
my left fo and know bang you what we
talking about there all well from
probably my teens in in a different way
it was agility and stamina and arriving
to finish all the way all the way
through my career and I know what you’re
saying you’re coming back a bit younger
than that now down to and I agree with
that I do think we’re in a different
culture I’ve got even my daughters are
older now I and I’m not FR I’m under the
bus here I think the what the
environment is around them I do think we
have to get back to work ethic and what
you have to do and and you can only
succeed by absolute application and that
now how you do that is one thing I agree
with you like not 365 days a year is
just going to you’re going to flog them
and you might have to flug your
relationship a little bit I guess but I
think sometimes now I do think that
people see everything on their phone see
all of these people talking about how
they’ve been successful but don’t
realize what the what the root of it is
and the work and then it can be a bit of
entitlement will just come to me
whatever it doesn’t come to you unless
you go and grab it slightly different to
your point of bow I think because it’s
that younger thing and you’re talking
about personal relationship but the
thing is is with with with my son is
that it it didn’t matter what I’d have
done with him you know it’s the same
with Charlie Charlie’s a rugby player I
I us to get him out in the garden I go
get one I pay for one V one session
and I’d be looking he fo it over the
ball and I think what’s the point of
this but he’s a Di and but you know what
when he got come the rugby he get the
ball and he go past the cut but that was
his that was his thing so you can’t I
couldn’t you know nature nurture I
couldn’t have turned Frank uh sorry I
couldn’t have turned Charlie into a
footballer but I remember coaching the
boys in the garden when they were like
six um I think I started working maybe
with Charlie doing some sessions when he
was maybe seven and then he had a good
strike but it looked to me that he’d
spent a lot of time just practicing
striking whereas like I was dealing with
a lot of players and we kind of touched
on it earlier where they’re expected to
have a lot you know skills and like good
movement and all that kind of thing and
and Charlie wasn’t quite that but I he
didn’t want to do it Sean you know it
was just like but now I look
back
bullying I’m making him I’m paying for
an hour and he’s out there me going to
do this but Bo I don’t know if you
remember him but like I think maybe when
he was like three years old or four like
he would move through the the hurdles
and like the lad you had in a garden and
he would move so nicely such natural
coordination and that he definitely had
so much ability um from a young age I’m
think and I’m working with like so many
of these type of kids that go on to then
get signed toies the way that he would
touch the ball like was very graceful
very nice
um Lo ability yeah but you have to let
them get there in in their own time is I
think what I’m trying to say you know
and everybody will reach that point if
they’re going to be good enough and
that’s why I asked the question to Frank
when is it do you think you can actually
tell because I try I’m trying to think
back to to to Frank and watching him
play and we used to do analysis when you
first got into the West Ham side and
we’d speak match of the day was on and I
said look let’s have a chat later on
we’d always talk after the match of the
day I was say 22 something like that
Frank was 17 18 and it would be so
beneficial to do that but Frank before
that you know would have been like one
of those where you weren’t quite sure
but then once he found his strength once
he got his Fitness started to get that
confidence that yes I can actually play
and you going to challenge yourself
against good Academy players that’s when
you actually start to realize being the
best under eight is a complete waste of
time no Co it is it’s nonsense being the
best under eight no who wants to be the
best under the best under eight if you
don’t end up fulfilling you poti I’ve
seen so many I’ve remember England
school boys I didn’t get I got picked
for one game for England school boys and
all the Midfield players were like they
had hairy arms and hairy arm pits hairs
on their legs I was like God they’re
going to be un this is England’s future
Midfield I never saw him again two years
later Frank was the same you know you
you didn’t play England score boys did
you no I got didn’t didn’t get into
lisaw school of exence I tried to get in
there and was most of those players
would be nowhere now as well but it was
the same physically that they were ahead
of me you talk about physical if they
you’re J birthday as well which is not
always easy as well yeah no but they
were they just it was just the pecking
order at the time like you said there
was no point in being the best unless
your J you keep working to become the
best when it really really matters you
we play We to play two different sports
at the moment though Play Seven aside at
the moment you know play small pitches
someone get ball they could beat four
players and score a goal you know when
the pitches turn into 11v 11 it’s a
completely different sport a completely
different sport and you know and it’s
all it’s it’s about getting to that
stage you’ve got to get to 11 or 12 when
it does open up to playing football
really because it ain’t football at the
moment it’s seven aside small goals do
you know what I mean tight pitches you
but yeah I mean the the players that you
brought through at Chelsea those youth
players the majority of them had all
been at the club since they’ve been like
seven years old yeah so Mason uh Ru FICO
Tammy yeah Billy came ler Billy came
from Rangers Billy Gilmore orando do
they play though Frank if you’re not
there
um uh say Show’s the manager yeah no I
don’t think they would have done I
remember when we got we got beaten 40 my
first game at man united we played right
for bit period of the game and they done
us counter
was on sky and J G me a bit of jip and
it was a bit like you know these young
boys are not going to um you know not
they’re not ready type conversation so I
don’t know I think Jose’s smart I think
someone like Mason M I don’t think I
what I did with Mason particularly
because i’ had him at Darby as well I
gave I gave him the full feeling from
the start of the Season that he was my
man and I and now I recognized that cuz
I had a couple of managers particularly
Jose with me that gave me a real
confidence of like you’re my man I’m
with you and that made me grow and I
think Mason particularly I gave that to
and as I say Mason would have been
against Ross Bartley kovic because K
always plays when he’s fit yeah um
georgin was probably the sixth generally
and so it was against two two top
players really way and I gave mace
because I started him in the first game
started him in Leicester at home in the
early games so he had that feeling Tammy
and giru would right but I also give
Tammy the number nine sh I’m not say I
did this but when you give people young
players a confidence that you’re going
to go with them and I don’t think they
necessarily would got that elsewhere and
some of that was be my connection having
a real good understanding of them and
the transfer band definitely but I gave
them that so yeah for Kyo tomorrow he
wouldn’t have done what about someone
like you know like Mak them out like as
you say like through the youth team it’d
have been amazing I talked to Tim Sher
he said used to watch the youth team
play and he was like he was the go-to
man he was like he dragged Chelsea
through then he gets into the first team
you’re like give him all that confidence
do you think him going to man united has
a couple of bag games the manager ain’t
really putting his arm around him I
don’t think so I’m not sure do you think
he finds it hard then do you think
players then think well wait there a
minute I had someone like like you who
puts my my arm around and probably a lot
of the Chelsea coaches through his time
because he was a top player then he goes
to man united and the manager’s not that
warm yeah that’s a challenge him now
because I I did all the youth team
coaches would have spoken highly all his
loans were great Thomas T played him
regularly and load of faith in him uh
and now he’s gone and he’s got a
challenge I think some of it is probably
a tactical challenge of Bruno Fernandez
and him ever being in the same team
anyway I think that was probably a
question mark over the situation
especially if Casmir is playing as the
older well it’s it’s going to be tough
that one but I do think Mason knowing
him well he’s got a bit of grit and
something about him that’ll go I’m going
to show you you know and he probably
needs to get fully fit and may maybe
might be next season now go pre season
whether whatever change happens in the
summer but I agree it’ll be it’ll be a
big challenge of him but he’s still a
young young
I’m a big fan so here’s a question for
you Frank for young say parents have got
good young players 15 16 years of age
and they’re getting offered big money by
a a Premier League club to
sign but knowing that in their heart of
hearts the the pathway isn’t there do
you take the money and go to a club
where you you’re going to take the risk
or do you maybe go there’s a a smaller
Club but there is a pathway for me to
get into that first team as soon as
possible H what do you think um I think
uh as a parent you’d have to look at
what the big picture is so those those
basic
details the big money move what Academy
is that for Big Money move I’m guessing
is one of the topies in the country what
sort of coaching am I going to get there
uh what will be the pathway in the in
that sort of period where I might not
get into the first team like you say
because you’ve got you’re blocked by top
players is it alone what is that um and
and then you w up against the the maybe
the Lesser club which the is the what
the coaching l so it comes down to
people a little bit so if I’m sitting in
front of Neil b i you can tell I got a
lot of respect for what is he going to
say to you to give you the answers you
want and then you have to weigh both of
those up I probably if it was my boy now
if it was Freddy and whatever 12 13
years time whatever more um a little bit
having played old I would probably air
on a bit of go and get plan as soon soon
as you can um but I don’t think it’s as
simple to that and I’ve got to say I’ve
had a few conversations with parents
when I’ve been managing at Chelsea and
Everton
um and sometimes the parents are getting
it wrong they’re asking all these
questions about Pathways and what will
he be what will he be next year is’s in
the I want him to play in the 20 he mate
plays in the 21s and he’s there and you
know what and my answer is I don’t you
got to be careful because you’re trying
to get these kids to sign normally I
want to go don’t worry about that worry
about your boy playing training doing
all the work he’s got to do because his
pathway will become itself it might be
alone it might be Jared B when I’m not
talking about Jared he went on loan and
before that he needed the loan he’s come
back now he’s you know looking like he’s
going to probably going to go on ever
tomor or get a move but the parents sit
there and go tell us the pathway as if I
should be selling to them the pathway
their boy has to perform so whe I think
wherever he goes to that lesser club and
hopefully the pathway Str it’ll only
depend on whether that boy trains
because that won’t be easy either and if
he goes to the to the better Academy as
you’re saying you get your bit of do at
that point well he better be ready to go
out maybe online and apply himself every
day and do all the right things to play
so it’s a hard question the
responsibility will be on that back one
CU I remember talking um when Jud
Bellingham was coming through you know
and you and I had a conversation about
him said was a great kid this boy were
trying to get him to Chelsey I think he
was 17 at the time he said we’ve had a
conversation with him trying to we’ve
sold the club to him he said but it’s
going to be hard because his parents are
so bright they know where they want him
to go and I just don’t think that he he
can come to a club like Chelsea or man
united because he won’t be getting in
the first te whereas Dortmund could go
right you’re going to be in our first te
at 17 no matter what you know that was
that’s the case in point as well you
tried to sell him you tried to get him
to Chelsea to the training ground and we
sat in the meeting room we had a nice
video Chelsea had followed him for years
Jim fras had scouted him since he was a
really young kid and um we did the
biggest selling point and I I was in
quite a good position at the time
because I could go well look at Mason
and look at Tammy they’re playing like
this that what happened for you but they
were quite very smart um didn’t say too
much some parents didn’t can talk you
know a lot they were just like listening
and listening but I just got the feeling
that he’s going to go places this boy um
CU he had a real that the parents really
strong we’ already sens and smell a
little bit that he might take the
dortman option anyway and talk to Manu
Man City or whatever it was um and it
was a right absolutely the right path
for him but again if he had to come to
Chelsea he still become a top player
because he’s he’s doing all the right
things do you know what I mean it just
would have looked a little bit different
but I think it was the smart Journey for
them but for me again it comes back to
the kid who goes you going to apply
yourself you’re going to show that
you’re going to make it cuz Drew bellan
would have got in that Chelsea first him
in the next year or two you know what I
mean he would he would have done because
of the ability of the boy maybe not
everyone’s got Jude bellingham’s ability
I think he’s an absolute you know world
class Talent isn’t he so I think um it’s
not an easy one but again I do come back
to those experiences I had at Everton
particularly where I and the academy
staff were asked what are you going to
give our son and it’s like that’s not
really the point the point is what is
this boy going to do to really make
himself and then he’ll then he’ll make
his path or own it make the path yeah
but just showed from the age of eight up
all the way up to then and you talk
about Brave all comes down to hard work
M even like when when you’ve got a big
contract and You’ got to go on loan to
earn your stripes and playing in sort of
a man’s League playing in League one and
League two you’ve got to work hard if
you don’t work hard you’ll come back and
you won’t be any nearer the first team
on this subject around choosing your
Club I mean you said earlier you’re with
West Ham Arsenal Spurs how did you
choose to sign for West Ham um I was I
was a West Ham fan right um so that
helped uh I Live 5 10 minutes from the
training ground that sort of helped and
obviously my dad played there for so
long so probably you know that probably
an easy one in the sense of me and and
actually um where Harry was the manager
at the time Chelsea’s uh Academy hadn’t
produced since the Great era of the the
World Cup boys you know it was known as
an academy there um and it had gone dant
for a long time and Harry was now come
back in not just to say in front of
Jamie evident because history tells you
that um they were making a big push on
the you giving attent it was the days
before money it wasn’t that we’re going
to give you underground or give you a
family of this it was almost like you
know your deal might be around there
which was standard what it was I signed
a yts contract 30 quid a week or
whatever so that was going to be same
but you had a feeling that West Ham
would um help you get an opportunity to
get in the first team and then it came
true and then that become a great
conveyor belt because then Harry could
spit it and talk to Jermaine def’s
parents and say we look at what Frank
and Mario doing Michael carrick’s Glenn
Johnson’s Joe so just just the clarify
so up until the age of under 16 you were
able to train with multiple clubs yeah
yeah before that I think it was uh yeah
as I left scho was was the point of
having to make decision then the gcsc so
be 15 16 and my dad had not committed
because he knew the system you didn’t
have to commit like you do now he was
like don’t commit to anyone just get the
benefit of training everywhere see
that’s nut so like now we obviously have
to parents have to make decisions under
eights so you’ve both been through
it the full te so I signed for Tottenham
when I was 14 I signed for yeah I was at
Watford at 12 and then at 14 I went to
AR sorry I meant for your boys though of
my boys yeah yeah like you you both took
them to Chelsea yeah yeah I yeah I yeah
it was out of Chelsea in fham it was it
was heads or taals I’m not going to lie
it was heads or taals but
I I don’t mind making that I don’t I
don’t mean make that decision but now
I’d rather just be at one club and not
getting wired everybody’s different
there’s so much I think the one thing
when you talk about how the game’s
changed and you know how quick they are
and how fit they are and now the one
thing that’s changed more than anything
is the coaching I think the coaching’s
gone to an absolute another level I see
it with the under eights and nines you
know we did the training I had when I
was playing but you know it was just it
was basic run-of-the-mill stuff if if my
kid was getting that now I’d go well
wait there a minute I think that’s the
thing I think the coaching now is is is
such Advanced at every level at every
level in my opinion agree even though
you get sometimes frustrated that Freddy
plays up front yeah I mean that’s just
because there there just too many kids
and whatever and you know it ain’t just
about Freddy but yeah I mean sometimes I
do sit there and I think that’s lazy you
know I might be wrong I might think but
you know you think well he’s he either
plays at the back or he plays in
Midfield you know I I don’t know what
you’re going to learn in 20 minutes do
you know if someone said to me now go
and do a math lesson for 20 minutes well
I’m really going to learn much am I you
know what mean I need to keep on doing
that for a long period of time I can’t
go college for like 20 minutes do you
know what I mean go college for 20
minutes and learn how to be a plumber no
chance you know what I mean I’ve got to
go for years and that’s why I always say
keep on playing in that position you
know like I I asked Frank Midfield you
know keeps on playing that position get
pictures when to know he ain’t running
for the sake of running you know you
can’t just keep on running
down like make a run and the center
half’s waiting there doing his nails
waiting for Frank he’s got to keep on
waiting and waiting when he falls asleep
or goes ball watching and his player
starts falling asleep bang I go you know
it just you keep on going in the end
that man who’s marking you there’s
nothing worse than chasing someone who
hasn’t got the ball it’s the worst
feeling in the world and you know it was
the best at doing that no one wanted to
keep on chasing Frank so Freddy your
Freddy is playing he’s not running in
the Box he’s not doing what he should be
doing what sort of dad are you GNA be
um this is by the way this is a such a
hypothetical question because I I know
myself I’m never going to be that Dad
and I’ve shouted a few times yeah yeah
no I will I will shout a few times but I
um I definitely will as I say I would
definitely try to be a bit more well
rounded than than the old school that I
grew up in and maybe try and
do the visuals take a breath you know
talk after the game like what are you
seeing what you know why why you not
running and all that stuff rather than
just the impulsive shout from the
sidelines once I’ve gone through that
process he can get the shout you I mean
but I will try and um be a bit more
well-rounded about because again I do
think you do live and learn I think
we’re all learning Mercy we’re talking
about different coaching different
Academy I’ve I’ve certainly learned lot
in my career and lot in my management
career actually in dealing with people
cuz I think the harsh voice especially
to a young player is not always the not
the best voice it’s like explain why and
then then then if I felt I think if I
felt to back to Mercy Point a little bit
if I felt it was a laziness that was
stopping it I’d get the a with that yeah
I would if why you not running I can’t
be bothered to type feeling i’ be like
well no like you know why for why you’re
not doing it that’s different if he’s
not understanding of it if it’s not his
strength I wouldn’t force the issue
that’s why this is this is that’s such a
great point because coaches now I see
Academy football and I see a kid making
a mistake once twice three times nobody
says a word you can’t say anything to
them now you can’t shout at them my
answer to that is if they’re lucky
enough to one they make a footballer and
they’re playing at anfield Stanford
bridge and they’re giving the ball away
in front of 40 50,000 people do you not
think they’re going to shout at them
yeah you’ve got to be resilient you’ve
got to be a to handle every single
situation and that’s really what built
Frank when I listening to these
conversations and it’s I love hearing it
there’s a resilience that made Frank
perhaps when people maybe doubted him at
15 16
getting into the first te at West Ham
but then he needed the confidence of
someone like Mourinho to tell him you’re
my man that’s what’s rounded and made
Frank the player that he is so there’s a
little bit of everything that you need
and you have to sometimes have honesty
with your kids even if you even if they
don’t want to hear it they’ve got to
because if they don’t one day there’s
there phonin there’s Instagram there’s
Twitter there’s TV people analyzing
every single mistake if you can’t handle
that you have not got a chance of making
a footballer
What’s um Fred’s mom like in terms of
like strictness good left
foot no in terms Christin got him doing
a bit yeah she does does yeah yeah she
does yeah what are you talking about in
terms of in terms of the balance like so
so what I got from the Steven bartler
interview was that your dad was a
certain way and obviously so how he was
but then you know your mom was a gave
you that balance so have you had that
discussion with FR Fred’s mom no no it’s
really it’s really natural for us um
that we just are sort of who we are we
we see it from the same angle really I’m
not I’m not as hard as my dad would have
been I’m Different to that so I I don’t
think you need a good cop bad cop we
don’t need that at all um and in fact
circumstances of Freddy’s uh where he’s
just nearly three I spent a year in In
chesh Living in chesa managing Everton
and managing Chelsea for a period like
there have been a lot of times where
I’ve been away so in those periods you
become as a big mommy boy like you come
back from Everton and like I want to be
with Mommy all the time now I’ve had
some period of time with him he wants to
be with me all the time we just strike
that balance really with and we we do
see things a lot in the same way so we
both try and be you know not not being
it’s really hard but not being your
child’s attack you can’t be best friends
with your other you’ve got to tell him
you know what I mean it’s almost like
being a manager you got to tell someone
about making a mistake you got to tell
him that he’s got to eat his dinner
because at the minute he won’t he won’t
eat a thing and I’ll just give him
chicken nuggets every day at some stage
you got to say no you got to eat some
vegetables you if you don’t eat that
you’re not having your dinner tonight
you know what I mean in a minute he
cries his eyes out but in in the last
part of this episode um we’ve actually
invited in a parent who’s got a kid
who’s in Chelsea Academy and he’s
literally doing so so well um yeah
incredible um and he’s got so so much
talent this boy and I have a lot of
conversations with his dad Perry and
it’s very very interesting how he’s
developing him and condition his mindset
um but it’s things like how he makes his
bed how he does like before he go to
sleep like you know the no fizzy drinks
like a lot of like discipline but I
think that comes across then in
performances because then I feel like if
that is the the way the kid is
performing at home on a football pitch
they’re going to be hardworking they’re
going to be disciplined like do you guys
see that
connection yeah yeah I mean yeah Fred
Freddy I’m still picking up his pajamas
every morning I mean yeah I mean I do
that but yeah everybody’s everybody’s
everybody’s different in a way I like
that I I I think the kid I I think the
kid’s special I think I do think he’s
special I think his his parent is clued
in and he does he he works him hard he
has a work he has a hard work EIC as
they go it don’t matter if you make your
bed you do this you do that and do burp
you have to work hard and he has got a
work effort he has got a work effort
that is the main thing and all the extra
stuff you know if he’s soon as Freddy
turns around on me and goes nah not
today not today I I won’t bother going
anymore it won’t you know it’s not my I
was very fortunate I had my career you
know I’m not it’s not I’m not doing it
through my eyes you know I’m not the one
who wants to be the footballer now it’s
up to Freddy if he wants to be the foot
but this this kid that’s almost but I I
know what you’re saying so if he turned
around to you now and all those times
when I didn’t I took bow and I perhaps
shouldn’t because he wasn’t that
interested whereas now I see that he is
interested so if I say anymore what what
would have happened then i’ have that
would have been a pointless exercise
doing where I where I’ve got to today so
he did get touches on the ball in those
training sessions when you pushed him he
developed so now he’s 15 and he wants it
he’s got ability I know what I’m trying
to say is that you’ve got to be you have
to treat each case individually you
can’t be Paul meren like we’re trying to
explain what’s made Frank the player
that he is but that’s a unique situation
so everybody that’s listening to this
will hopefully just take one or two
things from it and not saying that’s the
answer
because he was unique he was absolutely
unique I had a unique upbringing with my
dad Paul had situations or circumstances
that made him the player but every
parent you can’t you know that for you
if you when you say that if a parent
took that so my kid doesn’t want to go a
date and he’s at I’m not taking him I
don’t mean like today but if it got to a
stage where it’s like 20 times over a
year absolutely not even if he’s got
abtin you go okay but he can always come
back to it though exactly he can always
come back to it that’s what I’m saying
it don’t matter where you are you know
and every kid parents listen it don’t
matter if you’re an C A Cate category
like your Chelsea your arsenals your
Liverpool’s your man united or you’re
down at cat 3 there’s a saying if you’re
good enough you will get found it don’t
matter where you are you’ve got to be
good enough you know people get into
this thing arm in a cat a cat it don’t
don’t matter where you are you I mean
you’ve got to be but if Freddy don’t I’m
not going to make someone do something
they don’t want to do do you know what I
mean I I don’t I don’t want I I won’t do
that but like Jamie said like Jamie
bought Bo out now he’s got that love B
he’s got that love B he’ll get found
again 100% I know he will I know cuz he
can play and he’s a talent the thing it
doesn’t matter what there’s one thing
you can all bottle up as a football it’s
confidence yeah I went to watch him play
Got Confidence no you can’t play so I
watched the game he was must have been
11 and he played and I looked at him and
I was like you’re not enjoying this mate
I said listen I tell what we’re going to
do we’re going to come out of this
because it’s it’s a fierce environment
Academy football it’s like as tough as
it comes and I went I do do mate we’re
going to go let’s go play’s go and play
Grassroots let’s go back to en en
enjoying like football again because not
just for your sanity but also for mine
because I’m watching you and I’m seeing
that you’re fighing this really
difficult you’re not like portraying the
true footballer that you are because
you’re a nice footballer let’s go and
let’s go and do something let’s go try a
different route and he was like yeah and
do you know what we had tears I’m
sitting in the car and I’m looking at
him I’m thinking oh my God I’m the worst
dad in the world but I’m genuinely
trying to do it for him but he knew as
well and it was only a little bit of
time then he went and played Grass Roots
his first game he got hattick he started
to do well enjoy his football then he
got back into another Academy and now
he’s like loving football again so
there’s sometimes you have to take a
Brea from football be fair though J from
that seven to 11 he’s got Foundation do
you know what I mean like yeah so where
he’s gone away he’s got such an
advantage on the other kids who he’s
playing against which is great and
that’s what I mean I don’t think it’s
people say to me like Bo had to have
that 7 to 11 at the Academy in my
opinion to get that that like to put
down the foundation you can’t you can’t
build I don’t
agree Mera you’re saying that there’s
not kids that have have gone on maybe 71
7 to 11 they weren’t inmy and then
they’ve gone and had a career there be
load of kids and Grassroots that have
been picked up oh yeah no I’m not saying
that I’m I’m I’m saying that it’s
important I think you know you you think
it’s four days a week Tuesday Thursday
Saturday play Sunday four days a week to
a Grassroots player who’s probably
training just an hour a week and playing
on a Sunday a standard where they might
be winning the ones who will come
through out of the Grassroots will be
developed they’ll have airs they’ll be
bigger taller kids it’ll be very rare
you’re going to get a kid come out of
Grassroots football who has never been
to an academy at 7 up to 12 who comes
out and you go oh my God where’s he been
look at his feet he’s going past people
like they’ve never existed it won’t
it’ll be the bigger taller stronger kids
that going to be more physical it’s
getting a lot rarer I mean the under 21s
that just won the Euros it’s around like
87% of that started at theirm when they
were like under 10 and Below yeah there
still 133% that didn’t yeah so like for
every parent there’s there there are
kids playing I see it I see some kids
playing Grassroots and just thinking
they just need a chance someone to come
and watch them they’ve got the ability
they just haven’t perhaps been given
that opportunity and I also think in a
way sometimes acmis can coach like
individuality out of kids I see it all
the time you know and and when you’re
play in a really good Academy the alpha
male kids will get the ball and they’ll
run and dribble pass that little kid
that perhaps doesn’t touch the ball as
much but if he’s playing Grassroots
football he’s on the ball all the time
he’s touching it he’s moving it he’s the
man that makes things happen and I’m not
saying Grassroots but this is not trying
to say it that’s the way but you’ve got
to make sure that your kids in the right
environment to learn and touch the ball
otherwise you’re never going to get any
better I played I I made it as a
footballer from playing Sunday morning
football that’s what I played played
Grassroots football up to I was 12 13 14
you know I always used the thing I don’t
think we’ll see another Joe Cole I
always say that I don’t think you know
when Joe Cole was coming through at West
Dam I I haven’t seen a talent since that
since if I’m being honest someone who
had that would go past people do skills
try stuff flick it around the you know
do back heels you know I watch it now
and I watch Crick I watch football now
and it’s it’s like Chris Tav you know
it’s safe it’s safe it’s like every you
know I watch Academy players now get the
ball pass it get the ball you know it’s
we won’t see another joke C but that’s
the way the game’s going I went up you
know that’s what I don’t understand now
in Academy football is at seven and
eight at Freddy Academy at Chelsea all
it was was 1 V one 1 V one like for 2
hours 1 V one One V one then I go and
watch the 15s and 16 plays and I I don’t
see anybody beat a player anymore so why
are we doing the 1 V one to start with
yeah because they’re learning to touch
the ball they’re learning attacking and
defending
okay there’s a ton of One V one Jews
that are always
happening where like in moments
throughout the whole game let’s have
some questions Sean go on okay um last
time we was on FR we got got some
parents of ofies to send some questions
in and and you know because everyone
wants to know how Jama make a footballer
yeah you know what it takes so we got a
few questions here that we’re all going
to we’re all going to answer okay so the
perfect coach does not exist Jamie and
Paul but in your opinion what are the
most important qualities a coach should
possess in Academy football and that’s
from keep it on the
deck Frank um
communication being a big one I think
you got to be able to communicate your
message or whatever it is you want to
get across to the kid I think I a good
example now even my young boy Freddy
again who’s just turned three as sort of
um different coaches and things does one
at his Nursery another one at his
playball another one his football and I
see already and this is a really young
age Freddy loves the one at playball
because he’s just interactive with him
oh I like Spider-Man too Freddy like
come on let’s do this you mean Freddy’s
like can’t wait to go there another day
the other one doesn’t communicate matter
what the content is I think
communication is a big one for
me it’s hard the coaching CU you know at
Chelsea they got two coaches for 16 kids
I find that I find that impossible we
don’t say bad things about Chelsea on
this podcast by the way I’m not saying
bad things I’m just saying I think
that’s I think that’s everywhere I think
to have two coaches for 16 kids I don’t
know how you can teach the kids in a way
I don’t think you could teach every kid
and that’s a problem I think I think
with with the money Chelsea have got and
cat a cat category
aemy for me 16 kids I think you at least
need four coaches in my opinion I think
you need but come on there buying P for
100 million ain’t going to work to bring
in a coach I think you’ve got to have I
I just find it hard I do in my opinion I
find it hard to be a to coach every kid
in a session in a session and that’s
just my opinion I mean that’s just what
I see you know I I think it needs more
individuality coaching inter I so sorry
just on that point I sorry I know you
can answer that but when we went to New
York was the first time I encountered
him first team football was having an
individual coach amongst the staff so
you Patrick VI was there as a coach he’s
number two so the structured sessions
would be obviously as we’d all expect
and then now and again as you get when
you got big enough scores now there’s
always time you can take out the two
Center forwards two fullbacks take them
out and they will go and do specific
stuff just inating that into what you’re
saying even more important when you’re
developing skills and individual skills
where there is the room for the extra
coach cuz I get that there’s two of you
16th it’s a lot like you say is there is
there room for one or two more whatever
that you go right we plan this session
right pull out the fullbacks let’s let’s
get them doing that receiving the ball
playing plan or whatever it is you know
those specific things yeah absolutely I
think nowadays as well I think not just
in you know youth football but also in
the first teams You’ got to be almost
like a psychologist with people you got
to read you know what’s going on in
their lives you know maybe young kids’s
got a tough upbringing his single parent
his mom’s taking the football what’s
going on at home and you’ve got to read
read these kids and you got to talk to
them and you got
to almost be their their best mates to a
certain extent they feel that they can
talk you about every single thing and it
isn’t always just sometimes about
football it’s about what’s making
someone be the best version of himself
on the pitch and I think that’s what a
lot of managers are now that’s why a lot
of managers sort of coming out the game
or coming into the game maybe didn’t
play but they’re good psychologist they
understand what makes someone tick
Mourinho did that with Frank to a
certain extent he got into your brain
knew what you needed to make you go from
being a top player into a a great player
you know and that’s where sometimes
youve got to you’ve got to be that kind
of Coach well that links into the next
question that’s come from coach James 95
being a dad and a coach of two young
boys when would be the best time to stop
being their coach and just be their
parent no I don’t think never
I I I don’t I think they know him if if
if long as I think he’s doing the stuff
I I when I’m telling Freddy stuff it’s
only that I’m seeing at Chelsea do you
know what I mean it’s only I don’t go
watch him at Chelsea for three days a
week and play on a Sunday and then the F
don’t do that you know I just get him to
try and do the the things that he’s
getting learned at Chelsea to do him
better you know cuz as I say they
haven’t got all the time in the world
just to look after Freddy so I need to
do that stuff
so they the parent is the best coach in
a if they know what they’re talking
about and I say that cuz when they’re
watching a game they’re only watching
their kid they’re not watching any other
kid you I watch Freddy playing I’m like
oh my God you give the ball away again
oh my God I could have done that better
and I’ll find myself going when the
other kid gets loses the ball oh that
was unlucky yeah said that was unlucky
unlucky there that was unlucky was it
and I’m thinking if that’s my boy I’m
getting you know what I mean and and and
I’m the best coach because I’ve watched
every Touch of Freddy’s every touch so
yeah I I think no I I think long as he’s
not going against what the coaches are
saying because I don’t think that’s
right if they’re asking to do something
you’re saying don’t do that then I think
that’s terrible advice but he’s he’s
going to be their best coach the the
parent because he’s watching him every
every single minute of a of the game I
don’t really think it works having your
dad as a manager or your uncle as a
coach do it’s never worked in the class
you know we did all right but no I I
think it’s um it’s a tough one that
because when you
have I could think of some examples
where it’s so difficult because the most
important thing is can your kid play
because if you’re picking your kid and
he’s not that good and his other kids
that you play anymore he plays more
minutes than anyone else it puts a lot
of stress not just on you but on the kid
and the parents and everyone’s going he
his boy stays in all the time you’ve got
to try and find the balance of being
fair but for a lot of parents they’re
thinking well I’m I’m out here I’m
giving up all my time why why shouldn’t
my kid play so it there is a fine line
with that one and I think that’s why
when you coach the kids it was good cuz
you’re you haven’t really got you know
an ulterior motive you’re not thinking
well he wants to play more than him you
just played the kids you know deserving
of time and tried to give everyone a
fair crack at it but being the parent
isn’t always that easy you just got you
just got to let them
go should we bring Perry in yeah I’m
just going to interrupt the podcast for
30 seconds to tell you about we make
footballers we make footballers are the
largest football coaching provider to
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operating across 200 facilities we focus
on developing the individual working on
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currently playing in the Premier League
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visit our website we make.com to see if
we have a training facility in your area
Perry welcome
welcome back um so yeah this is a really
cool concept that Jam’s idea in terms of
putting it out there to a parent who’s
given a great question who’s um got a
kid who’s playing either Grassroots
Academy come in get involved and be able
to get the opportunity to just yeah ask
questions to the panel so um Perry yeah
over to you what’s your first question
well thanks for having
me my queries were more about I think
times have changed a lot since you lot’s
Pro program or however it was back then
with development so I was curious of
what development looked like when you
were
younger well ours was I guess unique we
had you know our dads had play which
which certainly helps um Academy
football wasn’t really any anything like
it is now because we it it was only
really 14 where you could sign school
boy forms okay then you sign from 14 and
and then you could say you could sign a
pro as well but up until then you could
play Grassroots you go training with
teams but they they had to be you know
certainly in the area a little bit like
what you do now at Chelsea but it it it
was a to a certain extent a totally
different training outlook on how you
know you were trying to develop players
if there was a lot more it was a lot
more game related and you know you play
five asides and matches it wouldn’t be
as much technical work I’d say as what
they do now Paul when you see it yeah I
mean when I when I I was playing Sunday
morning football up to 1200 and then I
went to Watford and then you were
training twice a week at Watford and
then play us playing for your Sunday
team on a Sunday but then when I went to
Arsenal it was twice a week then play
for Chelsea on a
Sunday the one thing we was talking
about from 12 yeah from 12 but when we
was the one thing I was talking about
earlier that I think’s changed more than
anything cuz people go I’ll Fitness this
and is the coaching the coaching’s gone
to another level in my opinion I think
the coaching I think that’s the only
thing that’s changed when you look back
on when I played you know is is the
coaching I think the coaching now is
extraordinary the one thing when I was
growing up and playing you know when you
just said about pigeo you had one
position you have one position I I still
a great believer in that in my opinion I
think you might be talented where you
might have two I think three and four
you have to be to play at that level and
you you know with khil you want him to
play at that level where you’re talking
about playing for Chelsea you know and
going on and maybe who knows playing for
like a real Madrid you have to be
exceptional in one position okay you
know you have to be the best of the best
I keep on going back to if me and you
went to UNI now for four years and you
done Woodwork and plumbing and I done
woodwork I bet my life I’m going to be a
better woodworker than you are cuz
you’ve just done half on plumber and I
think that’s where I don’t I used to sit
there and used to think how does this
work right you’re at Chelsea you’re at
one of the bestm in the world of
football and I’ll go the world of
football why are you buying someone from
Southampton at 14 years of age or
Brighton at 12 but I know now cu the kid
at Brighton and Southampton has been
playing in the same position for the
last four years and has learned that
position so he’s going to be better than
the kid who’s playing there half the
time and the other time he’s playing
Center forward left back right back I
mean the only place you don’t play is
goalkeeper in it but me and you were
talking about this yesterday weren’t we
because we were talking about changing
positions and I told the guys by the way
like how good khil is um so it’ be
interesting to hear more about like your
training program for him but yeah you
were saying that he does really benefit
from changing positions yeah I think he
does because he can do a bit of
everything so my thing’s always been
with them wherever they put you you
still won’t be the best on the pitch so
because there a like in to get through
now I think what we’ve seen is like
small example like w masak at Palace
everyone said he was a Winger but when
they come they needed a fullback but he
could do it so it’s like you kind of
have to be ready for I think you got to
be ready for whatever opportunity comes
now the way first team fo is Trent was a
camid he’s end up playing right back so
it’s like I don’t think you can be
pigeon hold nowadays yeah but how Pidgey
old cuz you just said Juan basaka Juan
basaka you say it was a wing and now
he’s a right back but he wouldn’t have
been a center forward okay he could only
play in them two positions you what I
mean seven seven years old he might have
had opportunity playing in those
positions that you were talking I’m
going to ask you is you said it started
at 14 what age did would you like say in
your craft you started doubling down M
but M was from from about seven okay
from Seven I played center forward the
whole of my care the whole from seven
till I was till till we in right coming
at Arsenal till we in right coming I
played center forward I’m add a little
bit of time to digest your first
question and and think about what does
training look how does it look compared
to what it does now and it’s for me it’s
actually quite simple now I thought
about it growing up all we used to do as
kids was go in the garden or when Frank
came down to visit or I go to Frank was
was play football nonstop in the garden
that’s where you learn and it will be
keeping the ball up it’ll be shooting
it’ll be having one V ones 2 V2s little
games with your mates and you go to the
park and you find 10 kids and all of a
sudden a game would come out and it
became raw real football yeah now is
that are you getting coached or are you
just like playing against bigger kids
and the i i my brother was three years
older than me and we used to go and do
One V ones he kick lumps out of me but I
tell you what that they’re the little
things that made me a footballer and it
was not going on your phones it wasn’t
going on your iPads it was actually just
thinking I’m going to go and make it
like raw my granddad would take me to
the park it clip balls to me and I try
and keep it up with every single part of
my body and that was really what
footballer was to me and and that was I
think to a certain extent what it was to
you whether that’s better than what what
the kids do now when they’re training
all day you know every day and two hours
at night but that’s all I did and that’s
I’m sure that’s what you did as a kid
Frank yeah I think I we got lots of
hours of work I I trained at Tottenham
Arsenal and West Ham from uh from about
the age of 10 or 11 up until I had to
decide on West Ham because I could
didn’t have to commit to a club at that
point so I had good good sort of um
spectrum of training and it was quite
simple when I look at what Young coaches
are doing now academy coaches are doing
now Tottenham and Arsenal a bit more
technical West Ham was old school in the
academy in my time and I remember a lot
of physical work being a thing I was
lucky that w at West Ham had a great
Academy um youth team manager Tony Carr
who was a really good communicator and
and I really enjoyed my time with him so
I sort of related to him and then I
started to bridge the gap up to the
first team but I do I do think it’s um
it it when when you mentioned the
question of doubling down you talking
about when you actually become up now
I’m really going to push really work on
this is my speciality well I probably
did that from a very very young age
because we were talking a lot at the
start of the podcast about you know
myself and Jamie having a football
family so it was almost like we were
given a lot of pressure from our parents
about what you need to do and how hard
it is to make it and all those things I
think it was always doubling down the
big difference I find now to being
probably what your boy is getting is
that my my memory of coaching there was
much more or games when it was like West
Ham UT against Tottenham or whatever FR
Academy would have been my one-on-one
battle with a midfielder I was against
quite simple as that sort of stuff I
need to be better than him and run past
him he’ll try and run past me and then
some other simple things nowadays when
I’m seeing the structure about the teams
are looking inmy I haven’t I haven’t
watched loow I’m not going to lie in
terms of Academy but when I when I was
at chelse I watched some of the Academy
games on Sundays they were doing things
that we would never have thought about
playing at from the back even in the
first te football I watch my games from
early Chelsea or west H if you actually
watch a game you go oh I’ve look
different to what it looks like now
miles different a midfielder didn’t have
to drop down and get on your your box
much goalkeeper just smash pet CH Smash
Up the drug B and now we’ll play up
there so I’ve got respect for where the
game’s gone so I think you’re asking a
lot more of your boy when he drops back
into the six you were saying just before
we came on about how he want I think
it’s a good for him to understand what
that role is yeah but how many you don’t
want too many roles do you don’t you I
mean that’s I was saying it’s fny saying
that cuz there was a stage where I was
looking at him and it’s almost like he
started to have no identity yeah so it’s
like you put him in the six he could
look like kante you put him at the back
he could spray the ball around like
Trent you put him further forward he
might look like a Suarez or take him on
tour they say he’s an English Neymar so
it’s like I was getting a bit like what
do we do like at some stage I think I’ve
got to make a decision cuz I think what
you expect from the academy is kind of
for them to go you know what we think
he’s this but they kind of don’t do that
I feel like if the parent pushes
something that’s what they’ll be so I
feel like it’s in my it’s like it’s a
decision for me to make you know you’re
right but I I thought what I found and I
and not just Academy football but I even
think at top level people are scared of
making decisions I think people are
scared to go you know what that’s your
position I think we work on law of
averages like as you say with aan B I
think we get a load of Wingers if they
don’t work at Winger we’ll go at
fullback if they don’t go fullback
they’ll go Wing back you know when you
say like a Neymar or like a number 10 or
someone like or Messi or
whatever people don’t want to make that
decision they think oh no when I think
they should go and this is what I say
about playing in a position learn that
position and learn it and learn it aax
do it ax do it where you learn a
position and when you’ve conquered that
position and when people like bur camp
and people like that who up high people
like that up Ajax then they move on to
another position yeah can I make a point
there just a couple of quick ones one
one is I think you got you don’t want to
as well come away from the expertise of
the academy coaches who have maybe Seen
It All Before a version of your boy
another boy they might go he was a great
number six when he was a kid but now
he’s a center half so we didn’t want to
commit to him being a six he might have
to learn and my experience of living
that was Rio Ferdinand at West Ham in
the youth team who played as a number 10
in the youth Cup Final and was a great
number 10 I think I saw that game and
then a year and a year later Harry moved
him back I think as he was sort of
adapting into the first team and went
but boy so it then he went back to being
a center half so he had those attributes
of a number 10 which is why he was
probably the only or the up and coming
ball player Cent half coming through the
country at a time but then he had to
learn the other part of the game which
was heading and defending and people
running behind but luckily he had all
the attributes and wanted to learn so I
don’t think this is clear cut I I agree
to a degree a big degree with what
you’re saying in terms of the the
repeating of a position you get better
and better because you just know it and
you learn it all the time but I think
there might be some other situations
where maybe the coach is looking and go
hang on let’s just see it let’s test him
with that can he deal with that can he
deal with that and then but at some
point like Rio at some point go right
I’m a center but that’s what that’s
where you and I agree with most things
you say even on skyp but this is where I
can’t I I can’t add what you’re saying
but but I reason why give me just one
second reason is because you’ve got I
think it’s so important to learn and
feel like I’m not saying that you’re
going to become you know if you’re a
left left Winger you’re all of a sudden
going to start playing right back but
I’m just talking about learn different
facets of the game like you got to learn
how to just be playing if you can learn
the number 10 role learn how to get it
off the backf cuz you don’t know how
you’re going to your boy is going to end
up I know you think you do no yeah okay
but I’m what I mean when I say this year
I don’t know what position for going to
play Freddy might go and spout and go
6’3 and be a center forward who like
pins people I don’t know how big he’s
going to be but what I’m saying is like
you’re at Chelsea you get there at 7even
and at 14 they’re buying someone from
Brighton and they’re buying someone from
Southampton now why are they buying that
player from Brighton and
Southampton and the reason is because
they keep on planning in the same
position so I went and watched the fa
youth cup the other week they played
Palace they got about five players from
other clubs well that that that is
really common I mean in the caribo cup
recently Liverpool’s Academy got a lot
of Praise but when they delve deep into
it the majority got bought when they
were 16 yeah exactly yeah can I can I
because I’ve obviously seen a lot of
your boys incredible Talent can I ask a
question what’s uh what would a normal
week look like for him for Khalil now
yeah he’s homeschooled now so he gets a
lot of hours how old is he per he’s
11 um
year six so on a Monday what we just
talking about football yeah just yeah
just everything schooling so he’s so
he’s actually homeschooled okay I didn’t
realize that so he he will how much of
that will be on his education how much
on his football it’s pretty even um so
it’s football hours I’m my thing with
him was always because now we’ve got a
culture of a lot of onetoone sessions a
lot of group sessions but if you’re not
going to go and do an hour yourself
there’s no point so he’ll get up in the
morning he’ll do his own little bits in
the garden even recently he’s come to me
he’s going dad oh I want to do um like
can I do like 45 minutes bare footwork
he said he saw read something and Neymar
said it helps build leg strength like
yeah crack on but if he for me if he
hasn’t got that in him then all the onet
to ones and all driving around the world
don’t it’s not going to help no exactly
so he kind of does his morning bits and
then for example on a Monday you go to
his boxing he goes boxing at 11: um
after that he studies for like 2
hours I think in Monday then he’s got an
evening training session then he chills
off in the evening he’ll go to his
mom’s um Tuesday what he doing on a
Tuesday he goes he’s got an art class in
the morning goes B Club I’ll get him
from there he goes Chelsea in the
evening um
Wednesday Wednesday is a morning session
with one of his Grassroots coaches that
he still sees um so he do that then he
goes to study
then he’s
got then he’s got um Spanish online then
he actually does a bit of coaching with
me I got a little Sela Real Madrid yeah
I know I like your thinking I know what
you’re saying so he does little coaching
with me on a Wednesday evening with the
young ones cuz he likes he actually
likes would you have homeschooled him if
he wasn’t talented at football or is
this like something you want the
homeschooling happened because of
lockdown so lockdown he was home for 2
years or so he was getting sent home a
lot of work for actually like a year it
dawned me he was going s home work he
was doing it sending back to teacher I
was just literally checking to see how
it was marked but they didn’t need no
help with
anything you know in my head I think
it’s a bit strange you go school he just
does it all himself so I start thinking
it’s not really that deep and then he
got signed at
Chelsea in that period so he was under
nine you was actually there at the time
frame
um so off sorry so after that I thought
it might as well keep him home
because learning wise he was doing very
well in school as well and then they
were saying to I was going parents even
and they’re saying he’s got to sit by
himself so know that copy his work and
so I’m think he’s being isolated anyway
and then know what I’m thinking so when
he’s ready to move on you still got to
sit and wait for the rest whether it’s
that week or however long they’ve got so
I thought he can his education get
pushed further if we focus on that
separately and then there’s little
things so for example even with football
he’s been from he was under six Palace
had him with the eights at pre-academy
so he’s always been a bit ahead of his
age group and then he falls in a weird
space because he misses the a by like 5
days so in Europe he’s considered a year
above anyway and it’s almost
like within the like within your group
at football or school if you’re ahead
for me everyone else is getting from you
you’re not really getting much from the
others so I had to find a way to I think
if you’re going if you can be special
you can’t do what everyone else does so
you got to find some sort of program
that’s for you the homeschooling like I
definitely was seeing on your stories
you posted on Instagram during that time
in Co when you started doing it and he
was getting a lot of practice I remember
him doing kick UPS of a tennis ball like
you were spending a good amount of time
doing football during that time well
there’s nothing else to
do lock down literally if you got a kid
that’s playing football and he was what
under seven they stopped the season I
think it was just before Christmas and
we’ve been been working for maybe 2
years or however many years everything
stopped we couldn’t just stop so I can’t
think oh he’s never going to get signed
in two years we still had to keep things
going so whether we were doing sessions
and police were coming and stopping them
or we had to keep we have to keep going
sort of thing and then I was thinking
about habits and I’m thinking we don’t
know how long this is going to go on for
so I think I said before if he starts
getting up at we all start getting up at
11:00 midday and you get into that habit
for two it’s going to be very hard to
get out that so I had to it was like a
camp I was up with him we’re up he would
even go park do Hill runs so we kind of
just kept kept active and and that’s
what it had to be done really and truly
is he reminding you of your
dad uh yeah that you’re you’re more
militant I think no it’s the same it’s
the same idea I mean I I I went to
school and and it’s a different era like
I think that you’ve got more information
I think your your information and how
you put that together is is founded on
you know you being you know very
articulate you speaking about it as well
looking at it and what that means and
what that will be for him you know that
schedule that you put for mine was much
more kind of structured of school and
all my training and an extra bit from
Dad and a bit of hard nose kind of like
this is what you need to do so the idea
is the same and that’s really well
structured and I I get your thought
processes obviously uh it’s funny how
fate sometimes just plays a part and the
timing of covid there which is a
terrible thing for a lot of the world
you make good use of it in a sense you
could focus on what you wanted to I say
to Sean before Co you could probably do
about five kick UPS come out of covid he
can do kick offs every part of his foot
off the wall and so got to use the time
well and even when we talk about hours
think I said to Sean as well I think
some people think oh if you’re going to
do all them hours it’s all going to be
intense and up air and you can spend an
hour kicking a ball against the wall or
doing kick UPS or you know what I mean
it’s just enjoying the ball as I’m as
I’m as I’m sitting there listening to
I’m go hey you can’t homeschool your kid
and I think well that’s pretty much my
what my dad did with me I didn’t used to
go to school that often like you had a
lovely education you at a private school
my dad would take me and say listen
don’t go to school today come with me
and I’d go to training and I’d just be
in around the environment of football
and you know and that absolutely no
doubt had an impact on on making me a
footballer because I was just watching
tactics I was watching training I’d go
pick up the balls and is like the
certain little things that you talk
about the details that you have and what
your life sort of froze at you and I and
and I I actually I can actually see it
because as up there I had to almost
check myself I’m like w that was pretty
much what I did but in a in a different
way and like it’s like a project you
know my dad was like that with me
considering send him to secondary school
and cuz he’s doing well you kind of had
a lot of private schools that would take
him and what have you I thought about it
we were really close and I thought at
the end I kind of said no because I was
going to ask you like distractions even
I’m even thinking about that from now
and I feel like
time goes on I feel like there’s more
now they might be different like you got
phones you got the internet has he got a
phone yet he’s got a phone cuz he’s with
me so he’s got to be in contact with Mom
and his his little team he doesn’t go
school so I’m not going to have not let
him be in contact with like the other
Chelsea boys and what have you what have
you what have you so he’s got his phone
but it’s monitored um and he’s right now
he’s a sort of kid where you leave him
to his own devices he’s got a
PlayStation you’ll find him reading or
drawing or doing Lego but even now I’m
thinking it’s easy when a kid is easy to
say yeah come go and train all day when
he hits 14 15s and he’s got other
choices that might be more appealing
that’s when you’re really going to see
if he’s wear his heads that’s your
challenge yeah that’s theall that’s your
challenge because right now in place
yeah right now you’re like jocking for
position you you’ve got your boy into a
great position you know he’s a fantastic
player the challenge would almost come
when he’s out of your control yeah when
he’s f te 15 and then he’s getting more
information like Frank says from from
the club and you can’t affect his
judgment because he can turn around you
and go Dad I don’t want to do that I
want to do this that’s when it becomes a
little bit more difficult right now you
just got to try to make him the most
well-rounded young man he can possibly
be and that sounds exactly what you’re
doing but the you know I’m not just
keeping it real that’s exactly that is
the challenge isn’t it Frank yeah so how
do you worry about like cuz he’s
homeschooled and he’s he’s only seeing
kids at Chelsea his social
skills um everyone kind of said that to
me at first but then socially even at
Chelsea for example he trains with the
13s as well um do you find him talking
to the players and getting involved yeah
the feedback I’ve got from them is he’s
very sociable he’s one of the easiest
going to a group and what have you so
even he’s good so even part of the coach
and he’s good with younger ones um and
he’s got cousins and what have you that
he’s in contact with and what have you
so I don’t think it’s that bad I think
depending on your setup whether that
could affect them but I think it’s I
think he’s all right yeah if I could
just intervene with a question because I
I don’t want to steal your questions and
your time but just for the project and
Bae parents who take a lot of notes and
really study what we’re saying there was
something you guys touched on there
where you’re talking about the
environment and I know you’ve spoken
about it before Frank where you said
like Jim’s influence on you like as a
young when you’re a young kid um I think
that environment is so so important that
children have in terms of like the other
kids that they mix with so if Jamie like
you were setting a good example to Frank
like you were clipping the balls to the
bird cage Frank was copying it um you
were showing him skills and then that
set good good standards for you um is
that something that you’re deliberate
about Perry about who you put khil like
next to and like with I used to worry
about a bit more because cuz he was a
sort of kid that when he was young he
got to play with a lot of older boys so
even at Lamberth he’d be with boys that
were two three four years older than him
so for him he was very much of a kid he
see something and would try it but I’ve
always said it’s easy you can show a kid
Neymar and he’ll look at his Neymar but
if you show him another kid like a year
older than him do like something he’s
more likely to believe I could do that
so when we went into the academy that’s
why the age thing I found I was
constantly that who is there for in the
group to inspire him and it got to a
stage where I’ve seen him train two
years
up so it’s I’m not really going to don’t
matter you’re not going to find it so
he’s got to find it himself so that’s
how I’ve had to change slightly him cuz
you can’t always wait for someone else
I’ll say to him for
example part of working even on his
performance in my head it was like if
you can get yourself to like your seven
out of 10 and still be the best on the
pitch you you can kind of carry yourself
so even now he could be the best on the
pitch but I might be
like that could have been a bit better
remember like sometimes it don’t matter
about being the best on this pitch there
could be another kill in Spain or Brazil
or so You’ got to challenge or you got
to be your own competition yeah so at
some stage I feel like you can’t always
be looking for something someone else to
inspire you can ask you a question not
not about your but it’s actually about
you and you learning how to do the best
that you can so you’ve got your like the
projects mbappe is so I think about say
oldwoods with tiger Richard Williams
with his girls just did an unbelievable
job to turn them into the greatest how
how how are you learning how to do that
because it feels like that’s what the
trajectory you’re on with yourself and
your and your boy well I watched those
documentaries I read a lot and I even
said to Sean so for football Me growing
up I was quite good I was a left footed
player I had good attributes I was quick
over a short space good burst what have
you I didn’t have much guidance I didn’t
really understand the process so for
even training I like to play games so
same as when you was growing up we’d
play football the time school first
break you go play football lunch time
you go play football before school
you’re playing football so you kind of
find your own way whereas with him I
thought if he can have the guidance cuz
I feel like I had attributes that if I
had guidance I could have got further if
I could give him the right guidance and
do the right re resarch and what have
you then he’s got a chance really
yesterday when we were talking you were
even saying it come through in the way
that you played in terms of you’d have
you might do something well have a
success but it’s almost like you didn’t
know how you did it so you couldn’t
repeat it so even with Rec that how I
met you he was training learning
technique and what have you what have
you he scored a goal I think at under
nine which was like a slice of a hold
I’ve seen about the footage Chelsea sent
some footage out I’ve seen it I’ve
watched I’m thinking he doesn’t know
what he’s done so I used to be able to
do things off the cuff sometimes but
it’s like you know you score a goal in
the game you might go and try and redo
that after the game no matter what you
try and do you can’t redo what you done
yeah I wanted him to understand exactly
what he’s doing so that’s been like a
two-year process now he’s at a stage
where we’ll score a goal be like yeah
Dad I used a slice or I drilled it or BL
like he can explain everything he can
watch he can watch a game now and tell
you exactly what technique that person
used to score or so that’s kind of where
I wanted him to get to so he actually
understands what he’s doing so
everything’s got a purpose nothing’s
luck cuz you get a lot of kids that
might hit a ball and they might slice it
it fades away from the keeper but they
don’t have a clue what they’ve just done
it was just lucky timing at the moment
in that moment or whatever so that’s
what I’ve been trying to work with him
to so basically what I’ve seen if you
can be a technician cuz he’s his
attributes of being aggressive and quick
I think can carry you to a extent um but
if you could be a technician as well I
think you got a chance yeah yeah let’s
do it Sean your idea we haven’t done it
yet with Frank about striking a ball I
wasn’t sure how it was going to work but
I know you bought a ball here
today one of our the the greatest
Midfield goal scorer when you’re looking
at your striking of a ball frank for
obviously for parents or someone that’s
trying to learn different ways to I know
you’re looking at me I’m but how when
you when you to like outside the box how
what were you thinking when you were
trying to score a goal or get on getting
the right here we go it’s like getting
salt and pepper it’s spikes I wanted to
trigger
you tight those I think they uh go on
ask me a question what you say so if I
was outside the box yeah when you were
striking a ball how what was your
Technique when you were when you were
thinking about and what part of the ball
were you trying to connect with well I I
think probably I became more of a um a
probabilities man around the goal so
outside of the box when I used to train
and I used to try and bend it in the top
corner I found I found that was the
least probability and I imagine i’ be B
different to mer you I can pitch you now
like bending and feeding shots in and
bending them around and all I didn’t
think that was my strong point so quite
quickly if I was shooting from outside
the box it would definitely be an in
inep like a non not a Bend not just
striking through the midd the can you
show us on the you had a thing though FR
where it would dip in front that came
later so I would literally hit simple
straight through inad like like a normal
strike from the outside of the box so
the thing that I learned and it was a
bit by mistake really was that when I
used it was about how I planted my foot
so in Midfield when you’re trying to
move the ball outside the box you got to
move it quickly and there’s not much
time to get your shot away a lot of
times I would sort of shift it and where
I couldn’t shift it fire to get the sh
my foot would be closer to the ball my
body would be more over it so I ended up
kind of doing this thing where I would
sort of it looks like a weird a weird
shape to the strike but where you’re
over it to get it to come to to get it
up as F You’ end up almost leaning back
a little bit but you’re still over the
top of the ball and so so as I started
to do it it was random cuz you get
movement but it wasn’t just like a clean
strike so I kind of clocked that and I
was a bit like I want to practice doing
that more like what does my body look
like and and how does it how do I strike
it so I used to end up getting that and
so I move it and I wouldn’t shift it too
far away from my body I’d shift it
closer and my whole body would be a bit
tighter and then I would hit and I would
kind of get my body up right a bit and
then you get this movement through the
air like a wobble yeah that the wobble
which was great cuz then when did came
to Chelsea did used to do it with his
InStep so did go with his inep bang and
he’d get the up up and down wobble you
never did that I couldn’t do it that was
hard we to stand outside and you know it
was almost weird how he would open up
his insteps so much that he would David
Lise could do it David Lise came and did
it but but again I think work working
smart I knew I couldn’t do that so I
would never do and I knew I wasn’t I’ve
scored a few goals I kind of would have
bent it towards the top Corner if you
look at a majority of my goals and the
ones you’re talking about the 40 OD
outside the box a lot of them would be I
would just strike it at the kear I was
never finding I was never find it from
swing away from people told me that
people have told me that Clive Allen I
was at qbr once and he was doing a coach
said he said when you’re one-on-one with
a go just smash it a goalie nine times
out of 10 you’re not eting a goalie
you’re not eating him he’ll either dive
or you’re not going to with it I mean
and and that was the thing and the thing
I was going to ask Frank was when did
you work out with and I I still don’t
see it today you know the the free kick
from out wide you you always made sure
you bent it so if everybody missed it it
had a chance again in the far Corner
yeah do you know what I mean that that
that was probably training with UHA I
went to Chelsea for the year when J
Franco used to train and he scored a
couple of goals in that year and he’
done it before where he would we’ stay
out and practice fre kicks and again he
had a natural talent for the up and down
sort of side foot or inep he kind of
wanted to go up and down and it never
really worked for me but from a wide era
I could do it couldn’t get the fast up
and down so well um so I just practiced
that uh and and and it was an obvious
thing we had we had big we had big lamps
as well we were ready to run and attack
everything so if you get the perfect
curve on it either they’re going to get
something on it or if they don’t you
score a couple like that so that was
that was and then and then the most
important one for me was obviously
finishing Inside the Box because that’s
where majority of the goals like 85% of
goals whatever come within the within
the post out towards the penalty spot
and it was realizing that a massive
percentage of those are going to be
first time they’re going to be one or
two touch would you train with that so
would you train finish would you
constantly work on your finishing like
even with an empty goal like I find
Freddy in the garden just smashing balls
in the net just smashing balls in the
net as a kid I would have done because
you you ain’t got a keeper to work with
you I mean I had two older sisters they
W coming out but what kind of finishing
would you do with a goalkeeper um all
sorts how I would do from receiving like
I talked about my position being a left
eight generally and go back to your
point of consistency of plan I knew
that’s where I played so I would always
work on receiving from like an iron
Robin but my coach be be and Robin Fizz
it into me and then I would open out and
go bang like just 12 15 times got to be
careful cuz you’re going to end up like
this is when I’m playing regularly as
well like you got to make sure your
load’s not heavy so I’ll do a day of
that earlier in the week s of on a
Wednesday say when I now got recovery to
a Saturday and then get walls game day
Thursday Friday Fridays those training
days are lighter anyway so then I get in
and around the box and just work with
another get someone with me sometimes do
one-on-one stuff quick shifts and you
can gra you you quickly get a great
rapport with a keeper whoever it is at
least one or two of the three or four
keepers are going to be I want to be
there with you and you have a bit band
with them and you say what you think of
that take penalties all the time all
those things it’s it’s repetition
absolutely I think that’s something that
when I when I think about Frank score
it’s interesting he talks about the ball
but I’ve I’ve got a picture in my head
of Frank and his chest would always
cover the ball yeah so that’s something
for kids to talk about so if you’re
listening to this and you all your
parents go on YouTube and watch Frank’s
goals youve got 4 one of them it’s not
hard to find you’ll see one of them
outside the
bo the one thing that Frank did is he
talks about so that was obviously
something he did to to um subconsciously
with his feet I got to do that but this
the chest position of covering the ball
and it you were yeah I could visualize
it now and then then you get your strike
and you’d make it move but body body
position because as soon as like Frank
he might try to move back but he was
still covering it because if he don’t
ball goes up in the air so so much of it
is about that and you and it’s a lack
you don’t follow through as much as well
but those are all things to play with
it’s almost like if you ask you know a
great chef had you cook that that
amazing meal they go I can tell you the
basic I can’t quite give you the magic
do you know what I mean like and with
that I kind of play with it and don’t
get me wrong I’ll hit Rose head plenty
of times yeah you know I me it’s not a
problem in training as well you know
what I mean it’s not so so do you
remember an age you were when you
suddenly just got a feeling and you’re
like oh yes I can replicate that yeah
yeah probably like if you’re talking
like top level probably be about second
season or third season at Chelsea also
not even like your teenage years
not a ball and um I know I knew I could
strike a ball and i’ would have been
relatively I would have been a goal
scoring midfielder all the time to a
degree but not not crazy numbers but
good numbers but sorry I’m thinking much
more around the practice though cuz like
practice Yeah that’s what I’m saying
like you know if we all spent so many
hours and hours and hours like even just
an amateur player you you you’re
practicing and practicing practicing
doing hours and then you can feel
certain moments when you get Improvement
and you’re like oh okay all right let me
look that in let me now try and like
experiment with that I mean are you
thinking about like KH session just
before you come because that you made me
think about when you said there about
your boy train training with players
that not name off someone a year above
him but in being inspired by people
relates to an 11-year-old or cuz I was a
17y old 16 17 18 at West Ham with Ian
Wright coming to the club and righty was
so charismatic and would get every like
L she come in for a bit of training I
was like see I’m right and he would go
what about that finish how’d you do that
like why’ you do that this is what I do
would do that and those in that
inspiration to me as much as I talk
about your dad or Harry that players
that you’re with that you can touch and
watch the Cano used to do the can used
to do things and then so and I probably
became that player in my own right later
on at Chelsea because by then I could
find the bottom corner up all like a lot
in training I would have a high ratio
it’s only because I trained so much cuz
I saw and right do it and if here right
does it at West Ham when he’s 34 I’m
going to do it you know sorry that’s all
right we no got I was just going to
sorry going to talk about that’s an
interesting thing because I remember
even growing up play a lot of more
players were right was were one footed
Merc was one footed I I was onef footed
and but I remember Paul lce coming to
Liverpool and he come from Inter Milan
and in he was a good player you know
great technique everything he did very
aggressive and he we so when you do like
finishing after training knock it to the
you know whoever say you’d shoot and
then you’d be the one that sets it iny
would always do left foot left foot so
we had a bit of a culture at the time I
don’t know if it was a same at West down
where if you went your left foot and you
messed up you get a little bit of stick
so people were a bit shy to do it but
Paul Lin was like no left foot everyone
everyone’s got to use your left foot so
then we started to hit it with your left
foot and it wasn’t that like an
embarrassment culture it was like okay
unlucky great try and that’s what you
need because some you know even the
senior players I can visualize it now
they’re playing for their country they
still afraid to make mistakes in front
of their peers so that’s sometimes where
you got to practice and not care what
anybody thinks about you and that goes
back to Frank with his spikes going out
there and not worry about what anyone
else thinks of you I’ve seen even though
he’s still a kid but K’s done that
himself so his original Chelsea group if
you watch them a lot of them they might
get a free kick they’ll attempt to take
it on their weak foot he will take a
corner he takes Corners both feet he Tak
three kicks both feet so I feel like
that is a key part of development the
players that you are around they talk
about some young boys if he was at such
such Club those first you talk about
United have been in a bad way some of
the young ones you go if they were
around better Pros they might have
pushed on I think it’s a big it is a big
Cog in in development yeah what I wanted
to ask you lot was did you play a lot of
footall it wasn’t a thing when I was a
kid I wasn’t a thing I I i’ never I’ve
never seen it but I’ve seen it on the
Telly on Euros sport but no I’ve never
played it never played it I think I I
was always do you think it’s good I do
I’ve been doing a bit of research i’
starting a bit of a footall thing now
myself he’s always played but then even
like when I was doing the research it
shows you the amount more repetition
you’ll get like in a 40 minute game
receiving passing everything’s quicker
so you learn to read the game a lot
quicker and then I think a lot of the
South Americans done a lot of
footall in like you generation as well
so no I love it I I’m all for I think
it’s well you use your different parts
of your your feet you you got to use
your soul CU obviously the ball doesn’t
bounce very high so no I think it’s a
great thing but you know growing up we
used to just like I I you remember the
Hacky Sacks rank so I had a hackey sack
and I just take it everywhere of me just
keep it up and just practicing you know
using different parts of your feet and
that is a little bit relatively a little
bit like you know when you play foot SEL
and just trying to use different parts
of your feet all the time and just
trying to whatever makes you better at
your honing your skills really what you
have to try and do how do how so with
with khil how does he get what’s his off
switch what’s his off buttom how do you
find that balance what do you mean off
button well that in terms of say doesn’t
want to yeah that that you’ve told me
yourself well don’t remember when you
first saw just telling them off because
he’s playing there was that some
McDonald’s thing it’s just look good
kick about I think he was there as well
I was there yeah that the first time I
ever see
him I was like w and even I was playing
to short he needs to just play chill out
what’s wrong with him thing but in his
downtime if that’s what you mean yeah he
draws and he or when he does hit the
PlayStation you had him talking with
each other he’s he’s he get hits kid
mode he’s a k kid I’m I like it when you
like when you said play does Legos as
well I like sometimes we we the kids we
let them grow up too quick do you what I
mean and they’re kids do you what I mean
does anyone have a final kind of like
what what we’ve learned from this this
episode like would anyone like to come
through and say look this is one of the
big takeaways that I’ve got from
listening to Frank which I I think has
been incredible and I think parents are
going to benefit so so much from hearing
you talk this way because so much of
your interviews are often about you know
what’s happening in the first team but
there’s not very much where people are
talking like this level like you know
what made the player um would anyone
like to keep on working working on
working on it just keep on work not just
on work rate of getting up and down but
working on stuff like Frank working
finishing finishing finishing you know
everybody needs to work on everything I
mean look at me I didn’t have a left
foot at all never had a left foot I mean
at all but I could kick it with the
outside of my right which I learned how
to do but it is just keep on the one
thing I always say and Frank
Prim if you don’t work hard you won’t
make it I’m telling you that now you can
have all and I I’ve seen khil I’ve seen
him he has all the talent in the world
but the one thing he will still have to
have is hard work he will have to have
that work ethic that work ethic and that
is the one thing you know that’s the
same in anything in life what you want
to do I I think if you want to be a
brain surgeon or whatever you got to put
the the shift in got put the [ __ ] you’ll
be born with a talent and I think khil
is one of them who’s been born with a
talent but he’ll have to keep on working
and working in my opinion and that’s the
same with every with Freddy with anyone
the day they stop working hard the day
they’ll be watching football and they
won’t be playing it at that level yeah I
think the truth there’s no magic formula
no and that’s what we’re going to find
every time we do an episode everyone’s
going to have their different Journeys
and that’s the beauty of football and
the truth is it’s such a hard journey
but if you can get there it’s the most
rewarding most fantastic life you could
ever possibly have but anyone thinks
that you don’t have to sacrifice and you
don’t have to do all the things that
perhaps you don’t want to do if you
don’t believe that’s going to happen you
might as well give up now I I I will say
I think it’s harder for players like
khil who are that talented do you know
what I mean you know like like I don’t
know you hav seen his boy play but he’s
so talented sometimes it becomes harder
because you don’t really know what to do
with him yeah you and you don’t feel
that you have to work hard do you know
what I mean you think I it just come
naturally and it does to a certain stage
but then you have to work hard and it’s
hard sometimes to work hard when you got
that much talent if you’re know and I
don’t mean it in a I I just I slightly
disagree because I think I don’t think
he was born with a talent I think his
superpower is he takes information
really well yeah that’s and he’s really
disciplined well that’s another thing
everybody should do is listen I think
that’s why he is kind of where he was
cuz even in his group when they were
like under six there was it was a strong
group they all had different attributes
he was very aggressive hard to beat and
very quick you had boys that were more
technical you had boys that better
finishers but I had I kind of looked at
everyone oh he needs that that and that
as well so it’s like that’s hard work
he’s worked at it so I think his
discipline and work rate is is
superpower yeah that’s so my thing as
well some people are you going to put
but I just think whatever you going to
do with a young child young
boy um for example you want to be a
footballer I can only show him what it
like this is what it takes so even if
you don’t make it in football you’ve got
the fundamentals whatever you’re going
to do you’ve got to put that kind of
you’ve got to put everything in you got
to
yeah Will um you you be up for coming in
again and speaking of us in the future
Perry
sh nice one it feels like we need
another like part three of of hearing
about K’s
journey I just last I think it’ be so
beneficial for parents to listen to this
and listen to Frank and all the all the
the attributes and the the things and
the sacrifices that he’s made because it
just shows it’s a long long road you
know and it doesn’t mean that it’s
always going to go perfectly well at 15
but you can make it if you want it
enough you know and I think that’s why
it’s been so good to have you on so
thank you Frank thank you so much than
mece speak toone
cheers we make footballers we make
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12 in the UK operating across 200
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32 Comments
Amazing. I always wondered if the modern system would ever allow a Frank Lampard to get through, he is the product of hard work but was a slow player, the speed he got to was through hard work that results didnt show till much later on. they are cutting players way too quickly if they dont have speed I think this will effect any future Lampards, Fabregas even Pirlos perhaps their roles will no longer exist
Great listen this is. There is one big point for us as parent's watching this for our kids, listen to the sentence franks says between 44:17 too 44:32,so simple but so true👍
There's at least 10 major take aways from this episode that I will implement straight away in my sons footballing journey. You will not find a video with so much footballing pedigree sharing their insights and wisdom for all to learn from. Thank you!
Oi music's a bit overdramatic
The best football podcast I actually listen to start to finish love it guys ❤ keep the content coming 👍⚽️💯
Jamie Redknapp is a talented host. Class act
The key message in here is what is the role of the parent. Most parents don’t know the game well enough and can actually get in the way of the kids success. Better for parents to be supporters than do the coaches job.
Great show. Please can you guys do an episode about Joe Cole. I love to hear stories from pro's about his next level talent. Stories about the stuff he'd do in training as a junior etc. And of course the amazing career he enjoyed. And perhaps, how we as a nation historically fail to build teams around our great talents
Fantastic pod.. Fascinating insightful journey. Its interesting that Dads (Merce) thinks their Son needs to play “Position Specific”, but his Coach Plays him in Different positions (Different positions offer experiences and knowledge of the game.. )ie even strikers now need to learn how to defend /Defend space).. All about experience & development of a player/Child. For 30 years i have rotated positions to develop the player
Scanning is topical, but detailed knowledge / understanding of it as a subject is limited and difficult for many to teach. Childrens understanding of formations, tactics, technical decision making and technical experience of playing the game is so important. One of the big issues i now see, is that children do not have the patience to watch a full game to see the pictures & the game of football (therefore: Limiting experience). Social media can provide highlights, providing role models to copy is so important for a footballers development
Good morning project football I'm a Dad from South Africa trying to get my son to the next level in football training everyday he is in Espanyol academy in Johannesburg if you guys have time could you please checkout a few of he's videos and give me your honest opinion of how you thinks he plays this is he's youtube account @Tylersingh-qf6cf please and advice will be appreciated 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
Parents; Between the age of 5-12 years, i think all children occasionally need a push and encouragement to be told they need to do something if they have made a commitment to a club or team(exceptions are Sickness and injury). But, it is so important to play sports that children enjoy and to build good habits not just for sports, but lessons for life…
Merc, i agree about Joe Cole. I watched him a few times when he was young and was amazed he was not schooled as an England Centre midfielder. This is in stark contrast to Barcelona and Spain nursing and schooling Andres Aniesta for Spain and Barcelona.m to become a World Class Midfielder. It is noted in his Biography that he was not immediately a CM and struggled, he had to learn and develop positional specific skills to play CM
After 25 years of Coaching, i coached both my Sons. It was the hardest thing i did in Coaching. At about the age of 10-12 years you must let them go, and have dif experiences and become a parent. (You can still offer advice, but calmly and timing is critical). Be calm before and after games, but learn to be a parent, it takes completely different skills. Your child needs and normally will develop independent personality at about 9-12 years and if you do not disconnect your relationship will suffer. Become the parent (or Guardian) and support, help and encourage your child to be their best.
Fundamentals skills are so important and i think any player that became a Pro, you need a “Super Skill”.. ie frank “Shooting and Scoring” Redknapp “ Keeping the ball and exceptional passing” its very clear from their career, they mastered a “Super Skill”…💪👍🏻 This “unappossed practice as a kid, along with mistakes then became a habit that was practiced until they became World Class through repetition of a Super Skill …
Stunning ! Love you Super Frank. Here’s a thing … can we all agree it’s okay to not be a great footballer and as a kid being a part of team is worth its weight in gold ❤
Jamie’s becoming so much like his Dad. Merson steals the show. Lampard was good at West Ham, but ultimately the Zola, Poyet culture made him evolve with diet etc, which was away from his Dad. It’s an attitude thing too on Frank, as his Dad can only push so much. The drive is from him. Otherwise, more ex players’ sons would make it as players.
this is awesome content thank you
Yeah it’s called being the Son 😂
Great episode. Frank is very articulate and Jamie also helps to tease things out and get the full background
Great interviews and content. Inspiring me as a coach and Dad. It's not hard work if you enjoy it!
Jamie makes an amazing point at 1h11mins. Such a fine line of knowing how much to push them and how much to let them want to do it themselves. This has been amazing so far, looking forward to watching the rest tomorrow 🙌
That was tremendous guys YNWA 👌
Mers does come out with some waffle at times 😂
There’s a few players at Sutton United as well that are top players ⚽️
Brilliant episode
Wow, really enjoying this one. I can’t agree with taking that boy out of school though.
What about social skills with the opposite sex? Or is he expected to marry a girl who plays for the Chelsea women’s team? What if he breaks his leg tomorrow?
I feel like that’s what Merson was alluding to. Quite worrying all the same.
Interesting Merson doesn't agree that a 8-9 shouldnt learn to play other positions. I always thought it's good for a players to be exposed to all positions to make them comfortable quick
Merse didnt mention his gambling 😮
That was fantastic to listen to
Merse really knows his stuff!
I bet the worst thing about being an academy coach are the parents. I never think it’s ok to shout at your children in front of everyone. It’s humiliating and you’re suppose to be the adult. I don’t think it’s the way to build resilience. Jamie says it prepares them for playing I front of big crowds…but they’re children.. those things will come (if they’re good enough). It sounds like these boys think you have to sacrifice your father, son relationship to some degree to help your son succeed as a footballer..