The Saucony Endorphin series has had a big impact on running shoes since its inception in 2020. Both the history of the series and the possible future of it are very interesting topics. Let’s unpack both.
0:00 Intro
1:05 The Saucony Kinvara series
4:55 The Vaporldy effect on running shoes
6:28 The Endorphin series launches
9:55 Key Endorphin technologies
14:12 Endorphin series 1 (2020)
15:23 Endorphin series 2 (2021)
16:57 Endorphin Pro+ (2021)
18:23 Endorphin series 3 (2022)
20:41 Endorphin Elite & Kinvara Pro (2023)
24:05 Endorphin series 4 (2024)
25:10 The iffy future for the Endorphin series
29:44 Final thoughts
30:19 Outro
Super Trainers – How did we get here and what are they? https://youtu.be/gpJspTW6iFY
Disclosures: No one is paying me to make this video and no one has any editorial control over the contents of this video. Additionally, I have no connection into Saucony’s design or marketing process. Everything I cover in this video is my own opinion and experience.
Product Images courtesy of Saucony, Arkema, Adidas, Nike, Hoka, Skechers, New Balance and Brooks.
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Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sagasurunning/
Strava: https://www.strava.com/athletes/14151706
Subscriber count at time of upload: 5,718
Intro & outro music from Epidemic Sound:
Liquid Life – Chill Cole
https://www.epidemicsound.com/artists/chill-cole/
🤙🏻
28 Comments
I'll try to re-write this as Youtube didn't post my first essay (thanks Youtube). As always, love the video, thanks for all your work Chris. One point to add on the financials, is that Wolverine also recently sold the Chinese rights to Saucony to Xtep, so it'll be interesting to see how the two Saucony's evolve alongside each other. I think that we're seeing one eventual outcome of democratized innovation (which even as recently as last year on the Doctors of Running podcast they're still using the phrase). Almost every other company has more of an identity where you can look at their product lines and figure things out and find the niche that corresponds with what you want from the products. For example, you kind of know where Nike, Adidas, Asics, etc, are going and what their releases might look at (barring new foams or one of shoes like the Superblast). Saucony is the exception. They made one of the more iconic speed shoes with the Speed 1/2, and then democratized it so everyone could run in it in the 3, and have tried to split the difference in the 4. It's not a bad shoe, but I don't think it has much of it's own identity anymore. This extends to their lines as you noted with the Kinvara Pro (or even the Sinnister), but it's going to be even worse next month when the Triumph 22 comes out with PWRRUNPB as the midsole foam. I think one of the dangers of democratized innovation as Saucony is finding out is losing customers to other brands who have picked a direction for their products. How many folks looking for racing shoes (that might train in Rides or Triumphs) end up leaving the brand to get a shoe from Nike, Asics or Adidas because they offer something more? Likewise, how many folks left the Endorphin line when the 3 turned more into a less aggressive ride and more towards the daily trainer compared to something like the Magic Speed or Takumi? Folks like shoes with an identity, where you can tell it's designed for a specific thing, and with Saucony I don't think you get that, you get a more watered down version of something someone has already done for a more specific design goal. I hope they turn it around, but like you pointed out time is not on their side due to the financial aspect of everything
I work kinda closely with Saucony in terms of retailing them and product management. Currently I think they try to fit on all parties.. the Guide17 is basically a Hoka Gaviota, the Hurrican that comes in June is basically a Hoka Bondi7 (not the garbage Bondi 8).
The Kinvara series is exactly the perfect example what you said… grinded into the ground and yes, they are not bad, but its not a Kinvara anymore – it has no real purpose of their other shoes, except a really shitty durability lol.
And then there is the Endorphine series. The Shift got already canceled because it was not that popular and you couldnt make it more "special". The Speed 4 got back to its roots but is still kinda "I try to be on everyones Party".
Endorphin Elite: No new model, just a color update… And there a manager from Saucony said it perfectly in a meeting: "We try to distance the Endorphin Elite more to Endorphin Pro, so the Pro4 is more for mid to end pack of a Marathon, or for the elite runners who want to train in so called supershoe".
As I tried to get the topic to the Kinvara Pro, I got cutted off by both the higher Manager and our rep (he has half Germany over, so not a littleone), they didnt want to get into the Kinvara Pro, just said – its definitely not a trainer.
To Wolverine: I know that want to get Xtep aswell in their portfolio. But Xtep is like "on hold" to them.
I'm glad you like the Pro and Speed, from your Strava I already worried you dont like them 🥺
🐢
cant wait to hear your review on ESP4 and comparison to other brand in the same category.
On your Instagram you said that you had some "confrontation environment" with this brand. Can we get to know more, lol.😅
Finally a more detailed Saucony review on the internet!
I wish Saucony had driven versions 1 and 2 of the Speed into the ground and kept producing the same shoe. For an average runner like me, those versions of the Speed lived up to their name. Felt like I could fly in those shoes. I bought version 3 and was disappointed with the tamed down feel. Just bought version 4, and it feels only slightly better than version 3. Just another "daily trainer" in my opinion. Nowhere near as unique as versions 1 and 2.
29:55 Saucony just closed all of their retail stores in the US. At least that’s what the clerk told me… Hope this would work for them, since they are one of the few companies to have a complete running shoe lineup with most products tested and loved by a lot of runners.
I forgot to say (my apologies) WHAT A VIDEO!!! Absolute credit for the imaging, quality and analysis. This is a ridiculous level of insight. If I were a Saucony rep… I’d feel naked right now…. “Saucony are not an innovative company but are great at copying and refining others ideas”.
Very interesting to think about Saucony from the business standpoint. Thank you for that perspective. Gonna really be interesting to see if they decide to push as elite performance shoes or hammer home their everyman qualities for greater sales.
Surprised you didn't explore the parallelism between the speed and the nike tempo shoe as the kinda birth of the 'super' (cringe!) trainer. I still pull out my speed 2's as an all-rounder holiday shoe and adore them whenever I do.
Great analysis again. Curious to know which you prefer, B12 or ES4? Or do they even serve the same use case for you? Perhaps a comparison video?
Genuine question, but is the future of Saucony all that unique? I know there's been news leaking out for Nike and Adidas that significant budget cuts are on the horizon. They're obviously larger companies, but I just wonder what that says about performance running lines in general.
I really hope Saucony doesn’t move toward being a lifestyle brand. I enjoy the Endorphin Pro 3s and will be getting the Endorphin Pro 4s closer for my winter marathon.
What a great review, I would never switch into different brands before validating your Research. You are awesome ! Muchas Gracias !
Great video thanks. I like Saucony a lot, if I’m not in Nike (essentially for zoom x, streakfly/invincible/alphafly/vaporfly) then I use them (triumph, speeds, trail shoes). You must have been the only person in the whole world who didn’t like the original speed! I have only ever, in 16 years of running, bought two pairs full price, vaporfly and speed1. Because they were like nothing else that was available at the time. And I still use both pairs, your point about the durability of pwrnPb is a good one, my original mutants are still going 600 miles in. I also got a second pair, but I hardly used them. Or got another pair of speeds. Because the use case was long runs or tempos (I don’t like intervals in plated shoes) and I’ve got better (old nikes/Adios pro2) plated shoes for that. And I don’t want to use a plate for daily miles. So where do they fit? Your point around lack of originality and innovation is a good one, although you missed a good example. I came to Saucony through their boost tpu copy Everun, and in the the freedom and triumph lines I’ve put a LOT of miles into. Actually, the current version, pwrn+, is excellent, much lighter yet still with all the advantages of tpu, and I’m not aware of anything else like it on the market. Their trail shoes have also been very good (peregrine) and they have innovated with the endorphin edge, probably the best plated trail shoe. Very interesting what you’re saying about ownership, hope that move doesn’t lose key personal, I’ll be very sad if the brand goes downhill.
Have had both EP and ES since the first.
EP3 is prob one of my fav running shoes, wish I could still get them in my size.
my 4's are on the way.
Everytime im about to go back and try Saucony again i get a promo code and buy another Adizero shoe that lasts forever though.
I tried the Kinvara (some version) at the strong recommendation of my local running store and really did not like it. I have the Speed 2 a go and did enjoy that quite a bit but I developed a knee pain issue in conjunction with it which put me off. The outsole also seemed questionable.
The Kinvara Pro seems to be the same premise as the Salomon s/lab Spectur: a super shoe tuned for mid-pack runners. The claim this is better than the elite super shoe for people who are not running elite or sub-elite marathon paces. (Personally I do not buy it if only because these things are quite heavy in my size.)
I was not really cognizant of the corporate situation of Saucony which seems more than a little tenuous.
In 2022/3, I thought Saucony had the best top to bottom line of any brand. Tempus for neutral-stable, Triumph for long, Endorphins for tempo and race, Xodus Ultras for trail. In 2023/4 I now think it's ASICS. Noosa or Novablast for daily, Superblast for everything, Sky/Edge for race, Magic Speed for tempo, Kayano for stability, Trabuco Max for trail. Too bad, as Saucony was really my favourite for a minute.
Great knowledge and very interesting content 👌. I had the Speed 1 at launch in the UK – cost £155. I thought at the time it was incredible (after using several ultraboost and glideride). On reflection both fit and grip on the ES1 was mediocre. I much prefer the Speed 3, it’s a much better fit particularly toe box, improved grip, and wider / stable. A very popular shoe here and unable to buy it for a while. I’m not rushing to buy the Speed 4 at £180 retail in either white or bright orange c/w. 😂.
Thanks to you I finally understand what « Speedroll » means… and discovered the Wolverine situation and the parenthood with Merrell. With Merrell trying to become a bigger player in trail shoes, now with some Matryx uppers, it will be interesting to see if Saucony focuses more on road and invests less on the trail side, where they have a reasonably broad line-up that does not excite me much. Indeed their innovation track record is average at best. On the trail side no one beats Salomon in my view for innovation.
Very interesting, thank you. Nice to get content that isn't purely a running shoe opinion. In some ways, Saucony's approach, and both heir successes and failures, reminds me of Apple (for failure, a recent example is their 'car division'). The difference is Apple is the parent company, and Saucony being a brand within Wolverine is a concern, especially with the 'consolidation'. I still have the Speed 2, and it's a fine shoe, but too unstable for me to use regularly, I much prefer the Tempus for navigating the jungle of Bangkok's streets. In this respect, the move to the Speed 3 and Pro 3 was commercially astute, appealing to a much broader audience, and giving each of these shoes their own space.
With the Tempus losing a little of its magic after 400 miles, I've spent many hours researching for replacement shoes, and it's a jungle. Every manufacturer has a large variety, seemingly trying to find their own niches, and watching reviews one has to try to relate one's own level and preferences to that of the reviewer; so I tend to place less weight on the views of runners who run at paces 2-3mins/mile faster than me! That said, with a recent sale offering 50% off many of last year's models I've taken the plunge and bought a variety of shoes from Asics (Novablast 4 and Superblast), Saucony (Triumph 21) and Hoka (Mach 5) 'to review' myself. Hopefully, this will help me understand what I really want/need. Somehow I am drawn to Saucony, the Speed line in particular is appealing as the 3 and now 4 can cover a variety of workouts, though I don't like the trend of increasing the weight. Looking forward to your Speed 4 review!
Top Class 👌. I used to run in the mirage 3/4’s for my marathons back in the day.
Such a great vid! I’ve been doing a lot of research on a new Tempo Shoe and have been looking at either the Magic Speed 3 or the Endorphin Speed 3 especially with a lot the speed 3s at discounted cost. Been having issues picking between the two. Would love your opinion.
Also open to other brands. Even the Rebel V3 or V4 caught my eye too
Very insightful video – you should do more of these ! I Kinda liked the Speed 2 (perhaps a bit too unstable in the heel) and to some extent Speed 3/Pro 3 – surely Saucony are able to produce quite comfortable shoes , fairly well built – however as of 2024 I'm still conviced (at least my running data shows me) flagship models from Nike/Asics/Adidas are ahead of the game.
great content! 👏👏🏃🏻🏃🏻
how this channel doesn't have 1M subscribers is beyond me
Kinvara 14 is an amazing shoe, even with a bit of pinching at the bottom of the lace chain until broken in. I'll go so far as to say they're better than the Endorphin 1 and 2. So, I dunno, can I even take this seriously?
ES1 & EP3 are legendary shoes
As always, you are nailing history reviews… if you would ever decide to publish such historic reviews of running technologies — let us know, I will purchase immediately!
Hi Chris, new to this channel but loving the content and discourse! would you happen to have a vid covering the so-called evolution of shoes used in major marathons prior to the supershoe phase? new to running as a sport too and my memory is only up to the vaporflys.