Play Faster! – Charley Hoffman’s Pace of Play Letter to the PGA Tour | The First Cut Podcast

The First Cut discusses Charley Hoffman’s letter and the latest pace of play plea from a PGA Tour player.

#Golf #PGATour #GolfPodcast #firstcutpodcast #paceofplay #charleyhoffman

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The First Cut brings you everything you need to know in the world of professional golf. Nearly every day Rick Gehman, Mark Immelman, Greg DuCharme, and Patrick McDonald bring you the best analysis in the game. From DFS to betting previews, interviews and recaps… everything golf is on the table when you listen to The First Cut.

pace of play this is something that we cannot Escape it’s on the internet the players are thinking about it everybody’s being asked about it Mark you are out there yeah you don’t have the luxury of getting you know cut to a golfer as they’ve gone through much of their routine you’ve got to watch the whole thing pace of play is now being brought up by Charlie Hoffman he said and I quote as play ERS we still need to make a concerted effort to speed up pace of play has been a challenge my entire 20 years on tour and it was an issue 20 years before that golf is a tough game we need to take responsibility to be ready when it’s our turn to play and having the awareness to realize that we are out of position and speed up even before rules officials show up so let me ask you this Mark it’s been an issue for the last 20 years and the 20 years before that do you see any end Insight okay lots of thoughts um Let me let me back up first last week Pebble Beach we had a Wednesday afternoon meeting with some of the um the uh executive from the PGA Tour including jonan and in the meeting sitting right next door to me was Gary Young a chief rules official from the PGA tour now I’ll Preamble this by saying every year over the West Coast pce of play becomes a thing on social media because we always off in threes of two sides because of narrow TV windows and because the sun set so early there and as soon as you have threes and then you got folks where there’s the number of people making the cut then you’re going to run into issues so you have two T’s like we had over there at the American Express where one side turned into the other and had to wait for like two groups to tea off on their opening Hall and they had American Express the guys going off 10 suddenly got to 11 was a reachable five water on the left you have a few guys go for it few guys rinse golf balls and all of a sudden the traffic jam commences and so Twitter gets crazy X gets nuts right and then it carried on some Tory Pines was I yeah I haven’t been on the show for a while Tory Pines was just hard and and when there’s a hard golf course it’s gonna slow down I don’t care who you are and then a hard Golf Course um when guys are contending for a bunch of money you get more of that yes let me let me jump in here mark because this is not just Twitter and not just X this is Charlie pepper calling it out on the broadcast at T P yeah yeah so so so I’m getting there as I said lots of thoughts humor me for a second yes we’re humoring so Dy has something to say we’re on number 12 because 12 is brutal then 13’s a five we’re guys having a tough time and everything was kind of hitting the skids because we’re just so hard and the pive player was pedestrian and there were people um waiting but again it was two T’s and three if you one te and two SS I don’t think that happens um so Dy goes sees it and then her and I go back to the hotel after work and I open social media and I’m like Dy you g viral and she goes no I’m like for I’m like no for real because everyone’s going after it then Golf Digest or someone picked up the thing and they clipped her call now it’s out there um then okay so then last week the pace of play was fast actually we finished if you watch the two days on the weekend we were done a good 20 minutes before TV out before we were supposed to be done and so now CBS is like come on guys you know rules officials and they’re like it just went faster because the golf course was playing smoothly and there weren’t hold holdups so I guess long-winded to say certain golf courses this time of the year you’re liable to get it unless they’re short in the fields so now in the air Port Sunday night I’m flying back from San Francisco into the lounge and loone behold there’s gar young who I’ve just seen on the golf course earlier in the day and I say hey Gary check this and Steven Cox another rules official was with him and it’s the uh the Charlie Hoffman letter and he goes wow how about that he goes funly enough we were faster on average because they have what they call an average shot time which on the tour is actually 38 seconds um the of all the stuff they they they measured and he goes and you know what I’ll tell you why it was faster this week Mark and I’m like let me guess slower greens he goes yep even with all that bad weather when you the greens slow down and there’s not that fright factor and you whipping a ball four five feet past the H because it’s lipped out the guys are just going to tap in and they move on so with all the rough weather Saturday the play was still faster because the greens weren’t as fast so he looks at me and he goes you know what maybe we should just slow down the and then he goes well can you imagine then what the social media would have to say because they W hard CU because he has the thing yes we do want to see hard and fast everyone goes all Gaga as soon as conditions get firm and quick yes I do as well because then these guys can show off who they are but with a green slow in Pebble last week because of the forast wins the pace of play picked up the average round time was a good 25 minutes faster than what they had scheduled now does it need to speed up yes it does essentially it’s on the players but the tour are making overtures that they are going to stop treating the players with kid gloves they’re going to be like one warning and then they’ll be um there’ll be ramifications now don’t quote me on that because this is something that’s being tested right now I think but yeah the Torah into it the players are realizing um and it’s on the players unless the tour just start handing down Mammoth fines because the players don’t care they got so much money anyway so so there’s got to be big big fines or instant stroking no warnings and then the guys will play ball but if the players have to play ball right away if they decide to if they listen to Charlie which who was absolutely point he’s been around forever just play faster when it’s your turn be ready I don’t think range finders will make amount to a hill beans they make cut five six second off but when the caddies are unsure they’ll laser then they’ll go and pay something off anyway so so I think in the end it’s it’s on the players shorten Fields they can make it less players but then the players will moan so it’s on the players now get your ball make your decision play quicker that’s it’s as simple as that I I I don’t believe that asking players simply asking players to play faster will make them play faster and and Greg I think to Mark’s Point uh fines don’t matter especially because I think the current system you don’t even get to Big fines until like your 10th warning of the your 10th bad time of the year I think the only thing that matters is Strokes like immediate Strokes I think that is the only thing that will instantly make these guys play faster and correct me if I’m wrong because I think Mark brings up a good point about the green speeds barring a few instances that go viral the vast majority of the time I imagine is is taken on and around the putting surfaces yes and and they’ve done uh some studies on this Rick of course there are a couple of outliers there are a couple of guys that you see on the T and in the Fairway um you know taking a lot longer than they need to um then so that does happen but ultimately this is the reason in my opinion marks right on rangefinders range finders won’t speed up anything unless you clear the drain which happens on the Green and in some cases uh the greens for a guy to hit a puck can take two minutes you know and the USGA has a guideline that states you know 40 seconds is the amount of time it should take average stroke time on the PGA tour is 38 seconds but it takes significantly longer than that on the greens um and that’s ultimately where you have to solve this problem not an easy thing to do uh I know there’s a lot of push back against the shot clock an idea that I’m a big proponent of um and you know I’ll tell you why the the reason is when you’re going to stop treating the players with kid gloves I think that’s an important aspect but in the spirit of fairness you have to let them know where they’re at right and it’s one thing to keep up with the group in front of you um and and that’s something that clearly just doesn’t really work because people slow down all the time and well I’m going to rush to wait I’m going to wait in another hole anyway cuz there’s that part r five up there and we’ll catch right up and that happens but you have to if you’re going to stroke players which I think you do you need to have really clear um Border Lines really clear reasons the players have to know how much time they’re taking how much time they have left and so do the rules officials you know one thing when I first came out as a a PGA professional one of the first things they told you is when when you’re giving a ruling you don’t go penalize a player you say the the rulebook says you show them the rule book and you tell you they tell they tell you what happened you tell them what the rule book says they assess the penalty on themselves if if there’s no um clear amount of time the there’s a lot of gray area when does the clock start when is it my turn um it’s not me in the group it’s you know so and so playing with us who’s slow well I know I was slow on that shot but he was slow on the last shot right these things become very complicated and it’s really hard for a rules official and it’s really hard for a player to accept a rule in when it’s kind of arbitrary they’re already timing the players we know that because they have average stroke time if you did a shot clock simply on the greens you don’t even do it in the Fairway or on the te behind every Green on the grand stand you have a simple one minute shot clock I think you would shave 30 minutes off of tea times in every tournament would be like Pebble Beach um also I’m not opposed to slowing down the green speeds by the way it doesn’t mean they have to be soft but you know if you go from 12 and a half to 11 and a half does that make a big difference on TV um you know if it speeds up pace of play I think it makes a big on TV in a positive way I couldn’t agree more just one thing I want to add to you because here her as I feel where certain folks get a bit of a bad rap because remember I’m out I’m out there with them and I’m watching like you say Rick the entire routine so we have ludic oberg who has the ball Airborne like a Bill H before the other guy’s balls landed kind of thing and he doesn’t spend much time over the golf ball then you have someone else who uses their entire time which they’re entitled to and the first guy to play gets 40 seconds and then it’s becomes commensurately less so if I’m entitled to 30 seconds and I’m in between clubs because it means a lot I’m going to take my 30 seconds so then because of some guys like that like a cantlay of argument sex everyone’s like he’s killing the game but the truth is I’ve called him a bunch and I’ve never seen a rules official timing a l group and I know a lot of folks going to be like you’re crazy this is real because sometimes you know if you see some guy in the lead okay it’s likely a live group that you’re seeing on TV and if there’s a live group they’ll our producer will sit on them a little bit because you’ll see more action if you seeing quick shots like some of my groups those are recorded So you get there the guy’s over it couple Waggles and off the ball goes so people I don’t think are understanding how much time is actually taken but these guys are going to use their time let’s be if if you were playing or any one of the fans were playing and there was a few million dollars on a line and a trophy and you’ve got a second shot let’s call it Tory pin because we’re about to have more grief about Tori the design again you you in 18 Fairway there like I had Sam Stevens a couple weeks ago the guy’s making a fantastic run he’s freaking bludgeoned one down the Fairway and 18 there and he gets there and the ball’s on a hanging downhill lie like this wind over his shoulder front hall location water short now he’s between six and seven and he’s vacillating like this I mean I would as well because this shot could change his career he goes with seven hits a great one lands on the bank comes back in the water doesn’t make four he doesn’t win because this is on the line and that’s what these guys are going for so it’s such a tough road I feel like for everybody to Ho but I guess the good news if there is through all of this is if you got like guys like Charlie Hoffman coming out then the players are aware and maybe some of the older Statesmen will start to go come on boys it is on us let let’s let’s let’s do something about about this and just play with a little undue delay let’s call it when it’s over when it’s your shot by all means but once the other guys hit then don’t start taking your 40 seconds be in your routine already uh last word goes to you Patrick so we are clear we’ve got a problem everybody agrees heard a couple of solutions that have been you know maybe pushed back on a little bit there’s shot clock that’s an option uh stroking guys immediately sure sorry shot clock is on the table and I heard that out of the commissioner’s mouth that he said everything’s on the table when we on the meeting with him okay that’s uh kind of drawn back to that video he posted at the end everything is on the table everything is on the table he said it twice Patrick so you know he’s serious so we’ve got Solutions potential Solutions I I actually say this and I want to get your thoughts on this whole thing but I actually say this not I’m not even kidding and I don’t know if it would help or not would a shotgun start help seriously Thursday and Friday shotgun start no I’m getting I’m getting hold on well let’s let’s get Patrick invol the conversation I want Mark I want Mark to he’s biting his tongue over there mark how how much would you like the shotgun start I wouldn’t at all and I’ll tell you why let’s say look we already have some of it when you have two t starts right like some guy on the other side of the golf course makes a run and all of a sudden we scrambling cameras over there to get him for the last three shots right not this is not a c this is not a broadcast this is not a broadcast problem this is a pace of play would it make would a shotgun start make broadcast problem because who’s complaining folks watching the show it’s not people at the events am I wrong so Thursday and Friday do a shotgun start think I don’t think at the point where we need a shotgun start and start your featured groups on one and 10 they manipulate times in groups all the time why not uh it’s too much like look come really that’s why that’s why it almost slipped out Mar almost slipped out of Mark’s mouth no Rick when you got when because golf is so variable and there’s so many factors that play I don’t feel like like we saw it happen at Pebble last week where as we came on the air on Saturday I’m with melroy who is just missed the green on seven with a nineiron it’s 105 yards downhill he could probably toss it on the green there would lob Wich then eight we straight he’s straight down when it’s like driver a wedge to about 5 feet ma birdie then on nine mroy hits four iron in there on 10 he comes to me in the Fairway after he smashed one and he’s got four IR into that hole and he goes this is nuts this is a hole that he normally hit like driver in a wedge on and while he’s going through there there guys on the other side of the course that are on the easier holes and they’re taking advantage so that when they get to those holes there it’s a different deal I I just not that I don’t like the open but that’s the one thing because of weather changing and conditions changing let’s not change the order of the holes they play on because we play in an outdoor game where the weather has the biggest say so so no let’s let’s not change the te’s uh Patrick you are now the Zar of all things golf whatever you say goes what what is the Patrick McDonald the Patrick p of play Problem Solver the ppps I I uh I would actually just follow what Maverick mcney said this past fall where he said 120 guys in the field one t start three sums you have 20 in the morning 20 in the afternoon I I agree with Mark I think the golf course should be played one through 18 I’m not a huge fan of split T’s I understand why they do it uh but that is the ppps cool graphic bro so just just uh smaller Fields everybody off one two waves have at it yep yeah that’s that’s how I would roll simple throwing a shot clock and I think things might just uh pick up but then that happens and then the membership are like man I’m a PGA Tour player and I have to go and play in the corn fery tour with love this yeah you can have you can have like other full field events I guess and it go slow yeah # play better is what I’ve always been told