On this week’s episode of Fully Equipped, GOLF’s Johnny Wunder and Fairway Jockey’s Wadeh Maroun talk gear updates from the Truist Championship, if mini drivers are taking over the PGA Tour and Johnny’s recent trip to Houston to create some content with Jimmy Walker. The episode then concludes with GOLF’s Kris McCormack and Miura’s Blake Smith sitting down with Pajamas Golf’s Julian Williams for an exclusive interview on the art of club stamping.
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We’re gonna get into a giveaway that we have partnered with Meera and with Pajamas and I mean we’re gonna do just that. We’re gonna we’re going to give you few wedge heads and just let you get creative with them. Yeah, we’re going to give them away. We’ll we’ll get into that a little bit later. You got to you got to hang around for the whole episode. We’ll get into it. Okay. Fully equipped episode in espanol do oo quattro. Translate that for the folks. Uh Wade, what is that in English? Episode 284 for you layman’s like me. Espan. Espanol. Uh where how are you on this Wednesday? What’s going on with you? Tell me about yourself. I’m good, man. I’m just living someone’s dream, homie. Just living someone’s dream. Uh living life. Kids are good. It’s It’s school year is almost over. So Andre and I have been planning out their summer vacation [ __ ] which is wild nowadays. I remember back in my day it was we’re on summer vacation. Just don’t kill yourself. Now it’s like everyone has to go on camp and all that crap. But otherwise, I’m good, man. What about you? Uh I just got back from San Antonio. We’ve did some filming with Jimmy Walker PJ Champion who has a uh sim he’s got a simulator in his house and he can play. They call it Georgia Golf Club, but it’s Augusta National, make no mistake. And uh he tested some mini drivers for us. He tested some golf balls and then he spent about an hour, hour and a half uh number 16 at Augusta just rope hooking seven irons in there trying to make a hole in one. And uh it was quite the sight to behold. Uh he almost did about 35 times, but uh I think I posted one on IG of him almost making it and I got really passionate about it and I said a bad word. But did you get did you get I did uh I took a few swings. So he was he was real poking seven irons in there and I was trying to hit really really hard six like 185 yard shot. Yeah. So I was hitting six irons in there and he was hitting these little flingy seven irons in there and I came close a couple of times. I hit like five or six. Nice. Um, I I I represented. I wasn’t I didn’t do what he did, but I I showed up. I didn’t embarrass myself. Um, have you have you received those Mizunos yet? No, I have not. I get him next week in Charlotte. Thanks for asking while I sit there and watch you have so much fun. But due to the nice thing, the coolest feature, the coolest feature about your Mazunos, make no mistake, is the fancy grips that you have on there, which are the Align Max, which is the newest addition to Golf Pride’s raised ridge technology, which features, get this, Wade, a higher, longer and firmer ridge that runs the full length of the grip for increased hand placement and shot making versatility. 25% higher ridge than the original Align maximum ridge maximum consistency. Uh the revolutionary Rage Ridge ridge fits into the hands natural contours. II helps you control the face just like Ben Hogan did 50 years ago with coat hangers guiding fingers to find their ideal grip for more consistent hand placement and a more repeatable swing. Visit golfpride.com to learn more. If that ad people didn’t know that this was a golf show, they would think we’re talking about something completely different. Uh, I digress. Uh, so we have a this is just a this is a short show for you and I, Wayade, because we have uh coming out of coming out of the woodwork is is it pajamas Golf or Golf Pajamas? I think it’s Pajamas Golf. Pajamas Golf. Interesting interesting story. And I found out I heard a rumor that the guy’s out of Seattle, but I guess by way of Texas, but uh he’s, you know, just an like an artisan club stamper guy. a lot of passion for what he’s doing. And I guess he he did the the unholy, which is stamping some muras, and he posted them online. And I guess he took sort of a face bashing from all the club club people that you can’t you can’t stamp muras. And uh I guess Meera stepped in and said, “Oh, yes, you can.” And they listen, you can you can dance if you want to. You can leave your friends behind because if your friends don’t dance, they’re no friends of mine. You can do anything. You can do whatever you want to your golf clubs. Do you do you do you stamp your your clubs? Wait, are you that guy? No, I used to stamp my wedges. I haven’t stamped wedges for a little while now, but I used to stamp them. The only clubs I truly stamp are probably my putters just because I know they’re not going anywhere. Um, and but and I want to hand them down to my kids. I can’t It’s hard to hand wedges down to your kids when they grow up. But no, I’ve never been a stamp guy. I don’t know why. I like to personalize a lot of things. My golf clubs aren’t one of them. See, we got into that. Um, like I don’t mind a stamp wedge. Like working at Callaway for four years. It was just what you did. Like you got a set of wedges in Toronto stamps them up. I mean, it’s like that was that was one of the perks of getting new wedges. So, uh, you know, a lot of the stuff that he stamped in my wedges, I could never post online for fear of uh fear of cancellation. But uh I don’t mind a stamp wedge like what Titus did. Actually pretty cool with this uh this tour toe that they did. Um I actually love that idea. I think it’s really really cool if you if you know your wedges well enough and you know the loft and the bounce and everything on your wedges to be able to just put LSG is quite the flex because that’s old school. I totally agree with that. Um so the pajamas golf stuff is really cool man. like obvious he he was here at at my office like kind of doing a tour and all of that kind of stuff and um super cool down to earth dude. Uh I think Chris did an interview with him um which I think we’re going to at some point of this show but but honestly what he does and I don’t know if you guys have if anyone’s watching the show has never heard of him before go to pajamasgolf.com um you can Jillian Williams I believe is is his name Jillian Williams. Yeah, you can go to his website or go to his Instagram account. It’s it’s it’s art what he’s doing. It’s pretty amazing. It’s very precise. Uh what he did on the mural side of things that he posted was pretty incredible. Yeah, it’s pretty amazing. Like it it to be honest like what he does with the mural irons if you’re going to spend that much money on a set of irons especially murals because that’s like a it’s like a that’s like an event purchase, right? It’s like getting it’d be like getting a Chanel bag for a girl or you know it’s like it’s like that. It’s like that level of purchase. And I think what he does just makes it even more special. I mean, to be able to stamp them up and and uh make them look the way he does, especially in the way he does it because he’s definitely very very good at it. Um very very impressive. He’s got a little on one, which is pretty insane that you can do a koiish that small on something with a stamping aid. It’s It’s wild. Yeah. Who doesn’t love a good koiish? Um, so I guess it was KMAC and um and uh Mr. Pajamas Golf and then uh somebody from Mirror I think is on that interview as well. I was not there. I was traveling at the time. So um but that’s going to be the bulk of the show. It’s going to be a shirt. You’re only going to get Wade and I for about another 10 minutes and then we’re going to take our Yeah. You’re welcome. Yeah. And we’ll take our ugly mugs off here. But there’s a couple of topics I do want to cover. Yeah. Wade. First one is, you know, we got the the Philly tournament there, the truest, which is a new event um this week over there in Philadelphia, right in Jackie Boy’s backyard. Um y so some of the cool things that and he’s out there, which actually makes me very proud because he got he got Rory he asked Rory a couple questions in the presser today and um I’m loving it cuz like when I when I started here, I was like, “Okay, Jack, you’re going to be my tour guy. you’re gonna be my daytoday like you’re gonna be that guy. You’re gonna chase everybody around and this is gonna be amazing. He’s doing such a good job um out there taking pics. He’s getting to know all the caddies and stuff and to me that’s like I did it for six years and now I’m like okay I I like doing it but I don’t have the time to do it anymore. Uh so he’s doing a great job. But he did pick up on a couple of interesting things out there. Um so you’re a big mini driver connoisseur. Yep. [Music] Talk to me about the mini driver that you’re in. I’m gonna I’m gonna ask you my question after the fact. I just want to get your your input on something. So, tell tell me what mini driver you have going. Right now, I still have the burner the burner mini from last from last year. Um I did just get my R seven quad. Uh but I haven’t like I’ve still got to test it out and see what it’s going to play out and all of that kind of stuff because it does have a bit of a deeper face than the burner. Um, so, so right now I’m in the burner with the weight at the front in a in a Ventus TR red 6X tipped an inch. What do you But is is that a tea club for you or is that an off the ground club for you or is it an everywhere club for you? Both. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So, the thing the thing that I’m I’m realizing and I was talking to some of the reps about these mini drives because they’re they’re starting to creep into quite a bit of bags like a lot of guys. I mean, Eric Van Ruin’s got one now obviously Fleetwood has one. I don’t know if he’s ever going to put it in play but he has one. Grazerman, Davis Riley, Sew Kim. Um, and there is a there is a definite separation between the guys that use it as a 3-wood and use it as a second T option, right? See Kim uses it as like a he hits it everywhere. He hit it out of the rough. He’ll hit it out of a bunker. Like he’s just but he’s he’s an insane person. Then you get somebody like Tommy Fleetwood that primarily plays it off the tea. Max Grazerman primarily off the tea. Mini off the tea. Um do you think, and I get this question a lot, my opinion is that they’re actually not as easy to hit off the deck as three woods are, but I have some people that will argue with me against that. Like they they think they’re just as easy to hit off of the deck. Your experience? Yeah. Yeah. Do you think they’re they’re the practical hitting him off the deck? Yeah, honestly, I find it easier to hit than a 3-wood, but that’s I think a lot of it’s a confidence thing, man. Like, I’ve got so much more confidence in that mini driver, wherever I’m hitting it from that it’s going to be successful no matter what. Where I always worry with a 3-wood or even with a hybrid, is this gonna is this going to hook left too much for me? Um, I find with the mini driver, the reason why I like it so much is the miss is a uh like a power fade more than anything. So if you do cut it, hit it left. So if it does start going left, it’s a baby draw. Um, so yeah, I would say I use it probably 80% off te 20% off the deck because you’re only going to use it on par fives. Um, but to me the big beauty of the of it is it’s a true second serve. It is such a true second. Yeah, that’s how I look at it, too. Yeah. Um, but no, I I I don’t have a wood in my bag. I’ve got a mini driver and then I go to the UW. Um, so I I don’t have a fairway in my bag. So, you go driver, mini, and then UW. Yep. Okay. Yeah. So, I I I’m you and I are aligned. Like I I’ve had enough time with a bunch of them now. I’ve hit the, you know, I had six months with the Callaway one, which I really really liked. Yeah, the tailor made one, even the R seven is easier to hit off than off the ground than the Callaway ones. And I I literally think it comes down to the leading edge. One leading edge on the Tailormaid’s slightly sharper slightly versus the the Elite one. That’s the only difference other than that. Like off the tea, to me, they’re apples. The apples are the same thing. And if I hit if I catch the Elite one off the ground and I catch the R seven, they literally fly the same. It’s just shot for shot the R seven’s a little easier because of the leading edge. So, if anybody’s out there uh testing mini drivers, the things to look out for obviously is how you hit it off the tea first and foremost. Like, it’s got to work off the tea or it doesn’t make sense. Um, and then obviously find one that you can get up get up in the air off the ground. Um, and then how how much the only thing I’d say, sorry, just to really quickly say, the only way the way I kind of rank them is like off the tea box, like yes, off the tea, they’re all probably pretty much the same. I would say the tailor made one sits in the middle where you can hit it off the deck a lot easier. I would say that the Titalist 280 is better off the deck where the other two are probably better off the T- box. I think they go a bit further and straighter because the the 280 plays more like two wood. But yeah, it’s a true it’s a true two. Yeah. Right. If you’re looking for off the deck or a lot more, the 280 is probably going to be better for you. But if you’re looking for like that all in the middle, I think it’s the Tailor Made. But if you’re looking for off the tea box, I’d go between the Callaway and the Tablemate. Okay. Interesting. Interesting to know. Um because they’re they’re actually really really hard to for people to wrap their heads around because the idea is cool. I’ll say this. The idea of the mini driver is cool. Everybody’s got curiosity. Everybody wants at this point it’s like it’s kind of like zero torque putters. Everybody wants to try and make them work because it’s the thing, right? It’s like showing up with a mini driver or and what I learned for myself was that it’s definitely has a definite practicality for me because I’m a good three-wood player, but I’m a better mini driver player. Meaning like I’m getting four or five m miles an hour faster ball speed off of the tea with a mini driver and I don’t hit par I don’t hit threewoods into par fives that often unless there’s unless there’s nothing in front of the green. I can either run it up there. There’s you know it’s kind of a wide open target. Other than that I’m laying up. I’m 48. I’m not trying to be a hero. So, for anybody out there that’s looking for a mini driver, you have to be specific and you have to make sure it actually performs. So, a lot of people I think are going out there and buying them because they’re cool or they they might make sense, but it’s one of those clubs like a zero torque putter. You got to get fit for it. It’s got to work and it’s got to make sense. Um, and that’s the same way it’s going on tour. Like when we launched those things on tour with Callaway, everybody wanted one. And of the say if we gave a hundred away, 15 of them actually went into play, right? because the cool part of it wore off and like okay I don’t really need this. Yeah. And there’s a level of dis there was a level of disappointment to it too. I was like really kind of I want to make this work but I just can’t do it. Um okay topic two and then we’re going to wrap this up and get into uh pajamas golf. Golf pajamas. Pajamas golf. Pajamas golf. PJ pajamas golf. Um okay. So we did an interesting experiment with Walker in San Antonio. Okay. walk me through it, chat. So, we’re we’re in his bay. We’re in his in his in his garage and I was like, I want to We had a bunch of different golf balls there. We had Prov1X, we had Prov1, we had Chrome Tour, we had Bridgestone XS, we had we had them all. And something interesting kind of happened. And in the video, he hit Bridgestone XS, Chrome Tour X, and Prov1X. They all kind because they’re all kind of similar. They’re the spinniest of the retail balls of those OEMs. some interesting things happened. So he kind of like if if he hit a hundred shots with every club, I mean with each ball. Yeah. Say with seven with seven iron and with like a four iron, I swear to God one mile an hour and like a 100 RPMs of spin separates those three golf balls. Okay. And the ones that he really got with a titalist that he really caught, they were like 2 miles an hour faster. like it was very very very small separation between the golf balls. And he got to the point where we’re kind of looking at each other. He’s like I don’t he’s like I like I’m used to I’m used to Tylus and this he’s like granted we’re indoors and it’s not it’s not apples to apples cuz we’re inside. But I’ve never seen a guy hit that many golf balls and net out results that were so tight close because usually the more balls you hit everything starts to separate because he either gets really warm with it. You know I guess it’s a little bit different with golf clubs because you kind of warm up to a golf club. Golf balls are golf balls, right? And I I did it in a way where he was not necessarily fresh. So he would hit one after the other. So he wouldn’t hit like five proby ones in a row. He’d hit one one, take a break, one one. Yeah. And literally, dude, like it kind of blew my hair back. I was like, there is not a big difference between these golf balls, right? And and I knew that a little bit, but not to that extent. And I was like, wow, these are actually all really close. So I kind of left there dumbfounded more or less just like how do you separate what ball to play like at what? So him and I started talking about it and he goes honestly he’s like I would have to take these golf balls out. He’s like off the driver they’re all fast. They all spin. They all do what they’re supposed to do. He’s like iron play. They might separate themselves a little bit with irons. is like I’d have to take him out on the golf course from like 135 yards and hit like dead-handed wedge shots. Yeah. Like off speed shots and see what one stays in the air the longest to know. That’s kind of the only way I could tell you what what isn’t that your point that you’re kind of like always trying to get across to people, which is when you’re building your bag, you should be building towards your ball, but you should be building from the green back, not from the not from the T box forward. Do you know what I mean? Right. And this just kind of proves that point even harder. Right. Well, it got me it got me thinking because the golf balls themselves and I I got to say I got to pat myself on the back. When I was at Callaway, I did a pretty good job of ensuring like we’re going to talk about these golf balls from the green back because usually golf ball marketing is like 5 miles an hour faster off the te and spins more around the greens where you kind of need to, you know, you got to hit putts first to make sure they sound good. If you don’t like if you you have to Yeah. They have to feel good. Then he hit some pitch shots and he hit some chip shots and then he bunkers and you keep working your way back. So could the could these balls separate themselves there? Yeah. And like people will always ask like if I have all these golf balls out by a green, how can I tell what one’s better for me? Like what one ends up closer to the hole? I’m like no. The best way to tell is if you are hitting 10 shots with a ProB1X and 10 shots with a Chrome 2X, for example. What you’re looking for is how many times at the same strike does the ball look the same? So, like if you’re sitting there hitting 10 chip shots and you hit eight of them and they look exactly the same and two of them you may have mish hit a little bit but they still look pretty close to the other the good ones that’s a probably a pretty good golf ball. If you’re chipping them and you’re hitting them all good but the you know balls I don’t want to say it’s moving left to right but it’s going some a little higher, some a little lower, some roll out is like that that’s that’s a marker that either it’s not good for you or the golf ball’s not as awesome around the greens as the other one is. Right. Um, so on tour, what they’re talking about with consistency is obviously spin. If they hit a shot a certain way, they expect it to do a certain thing. The other thing is how many times if I hit the shot a 100 times, I needed to look a c look in the air a certain way 100 times perfectly. Yeah. And if it doesn’t, it’s a ball thing. It’s not a me thing. It’s a ball thing, right? Um, I don’t know what point I was trying to prove, but that was what I was thinking about last night after we did this test. I think what I’m taking from this what I’m taking from this conversation I’m hoping that the people listening are taking from it is like you should really be building around the golf ball that you’re using and kind of similar to the conversation we’ve been having is that you know there’s not like the OEMs are getting closer and closer and closer with driver irons all of that kind of stuff like you’ve got to find what’s right for you for your game same thing goes for golf ball you know what I mean like Marty Json who you know you know he’s one of the guys that developed Bamic right Bname is a great great tool for ball fitting online, but he he’s he’s someone that kind of gets a little bit neurotic with his golf balls where he’ll be like, I’ve got three or four different golf balls in my bag because I know this one is better in the wind. So, if I’m playing a hole that is with a headwind, I want to play this ball. Um, everything for him is about the ball. So, you know, I’ve I think what I would try to take away from what you’re putting forward if I’m a listener is do you actually know what golf ball is right for you? Just because this goes further for you off the T- box doesn’t mean it’s going to actually shave scores off your score your scorecard because you might be losing a lot of lot of lot of shots around the green because it’s not checking up properly or the the dispersion is not quite right to your point from 120 yards in. Um or the feeling off the putter face just feels horrible for you. Um, sometimes sorry to interrupt you, but sometimes it’s down to like how does it perform when you’re not hitting it properly? Like, and that’s something that that Roco and I have talked a lot about. He’s like, “Sometimes I’m hitting it thin.” Like, sometimes I just hit it thin. Like, I’m I’m I’m living out of the bottom groove, right? And he’s like, “There are certain golf balls that are better for that.” Like, and typically you want one that spins a lot. Like, if you’re out of the bottom groove, you actually want one that spins more because you can control it more. doesn’t you know say for example if I hit it thin and he’s like some of these holes will play you know you might be downwind but if you don’t get it up in the air it’s the wind’s going to you know if it doesn’t get up into the jetroom it’s going to come straight down he’s like if you have a ball that kind of launches high with some spin on days like that that really helps you it’s going to stay up in the air and he’s like you have to consider all that stuff because those are the ones that like you hit sixiron you hit a little thin and it should have got there because it’s downwind but it doesn’t all a sudden you’re in the water because instead of your six iron going 170 won 150. He’s like, “That stuff matters.” And he goes, “A lot of that comes down to the golf ball.” And I was like, “That’s interesting.” Um, so anyway, these are the things that keep me awake at night as you as you all know. Um, how do you think how do you think customers or or general people like that don’t have access to golf balls like we do, right? How do you think they should go out and test that in regards to which golf ball to use? Is it is it go buy three or four different sleeves of golf balls that you’ve got interesting and then go to a local a like a local joint where you can just stand out out on a whole 120 yards out, hit a couple and just play around with a couple of golf balls and see what happens. Yeah. I mean, I think I think the the the best way and this is something I learned from um actually the first golf professional that I ever worked for which was at Rainineer in Seattle. This is how he used to do it. So he was always in between like Tyler Turblatada and Maxwell HD 100. And what he used to do before every season started is he would take out two sleeves of each and would go around the green. That’s why I got the whole hit putts with it first, hit chip shots with it first, hit hit um you know hit shots with it first. But that’s what he used to do. And he would end up after two days and go I’m going to play the tour blot this year and for these reasons. And he didn’t have launch monitors back. This is the mid 90s. But that’s how we used to test golf balls. And he goes, he’s like, I he would hit slices, he would hit hooks, he would hit uh, you know, long bunker shots, short bunker shots, and he was using it all with his eyes. And he said, you know, this tour blotter for example, he’s like, when I hit a shot and it came off the club face, this ball matched what I thought I should see the most times. So if I hit a shot and I was expecting it to do certain thing, this one did it the most. Yeah. And he’s like, but that’s just where I am. That’s how I’m hitting shots. this going into this season matches up with this ball. So he would retest golf balls every year. Interesting. To try and find just to either confirm that the ball he played last year was the right one or to see if there was a better one for him. And at that time it was Yeah. Was there any Chinese? Yeah. So he had he he had a year where he went he was primarily a a Max HT 100 guy and then he would you know would swap into there was a year that he swapped into the Titus ball for that very reason. He was playing a little bit more golf. He was getting faster. he was hitting the ball better and then all of a sudden the tour blat just worked better for him and um yes and but that still holds true today because it’s exactly how they test balls on tour now same exact way the same way that Keith Williams So there you go guys go out there grab a couple sleeves of golf balls you’re interested in go see what they yeah go give it a go see what happens and you never know maybe maybe the the the Nike mojo that you’re playing is not right for you never know you may No, he uh the best thing to do honestly if I was going to give anybody advice and it’s going to cost you a h 100red bucks sorry is buy if you know if you go to a fitting right first and foremost you go to a fitting because you can kind of test golf balls there and if your sitter if your fitter is is pretty savvy they’ll start to look at your numbers and introduce you to golf balls that fit in your genre right if you’re if you’re a high spin player they’ll start throwing prov1 and chrome tour at you like try these try these try these and if that’s the ball that you find that is performing the best before you go out and spend five grand on that set of clubs. You can actually go home and go, these seem to be the balls that I was testing the best with. And then you take those balls and you kind of figure out what the ball is going to be first. Once you decide on your ball, then you make your order for your clubs because now you’re sort of building, you know, you’re ensuring that the ball that you’re using is at least in the ballpark. And then you can either go back to your fitter or you can go back to your fitter. You can do the testing beforehand with a golf ball and say, “This is the golf ball I want to use. I’ve tested it with my old sticks. This is the one I want to use. I want to build a bag around this ball. There you go. Go from there. Makes sense. Can I ask you a quick Can I ask you a quick non-golf question before we jump to the pajamas golf uh interview? Sure. Okay. If if the Warriors win the championship this year, does Yes, he’s goat goat conversation. That’s what I’m saying. Does he leaprog become top three? Goat conversation. So, let’s be clear here. When it comes to the GOAT debate in basketball, and I feel like I have enough experience and expertise to say this, there’s not even Yep. Michael Jordan is 1 A, 1 A, 1 B, and 1 C. 100%. All these other guys are 2 A, 2 B, and 2 C. There’s there’s no argument. Like, and anybody that’s trying to manufacture an argument to make it so, it’s a stupid argument. You can’t touch the guy. And the record speak for itself. The statistics speak for itself. The time he played like like ’90s NBA basketball was peak Apex Mountain NBA basketball. It’s the best it’s ever going to be, it’s best it’s ever going to. But what you’re asking is if Steph Curry if he wins if by some act of God and if they get if they get past Minnesota y somehow then any all bets are off because once you get into the to the Western Conference Finals and the NBA finals it comes down to coaching 100%. It’s 70% coaching and 30% you know because every team’s beat down by that point. Yep. Right. They’re all beaten up and they’re all good and they’re all good. So now it’s figuring out and they have to look at each other seven games in a row. So like for example going like Steph’s not going to play in the next game, right? So everybody’s like, “Well, Jimmy’s going to have to step up.” Well, Jimmy’s not going to be able to step up the way that Jimmy wants to step up because Jimmy’s going to get double and triple teamed all night. So now it’s down to Pause and um Buddy and Draymond and all these other guys are going to have to do some crazy [ __ ] to for them to win, right? They’re going to have to step up and and hopefully Jimmy can, you know, figure out a way to score 20 or 25, but that’s the only way they’re going to win this game. It’s going to be the Kaminga game. Watch it. It’s going to be the Kaminga game. I bet you it could be. Somebody’s going to Two of those guys are going to have to come out of the woodwork and score 20 plus. Y and they’re going to have to do it fast. They come out of the gate scoring 20. And I’ve always said that that that that Pause kid like if he inserted himself as a true one, as a true point guard. Yeah. And like owned that role, he’d be nasty. He just plays a little too tentative. So to answer your question, if Steph wins this, he is 100% 2A. Jordan’s 1 A, 1 B, 1 C all the way down to 1 Z, then Steph Curry is a legitimate 2A because it’s hard it’s hard to match. He changed the game the way he played. So that’s he’s got that going for him. He’ll have five championships. He’ll have one unanimous MVP, which is unheard of. Yep. Um and he’s done it doing it at an older age. and he’s done it with three or four different squads. So, I agree. Um, yes, I just want to make sure agreements there. If you give a [ __ ] about talking about right now, comment down below whether you think that Steph is like if they win the championship, what’s going to happen there because I’d love to get people’s thoughts on this because I think this is very I think golf is interesting, but I think these conversations are very interesting as well. Anyway, we got to jump to Pajamas Golf. Enjoy the interview. Thank you for watching this episode, Johnny. See you next week. It’s PJ Championship week. We’ll be on site at PJ Championship. So, mahalo from Wade and Wonder. Enjoy golf. Pajamas. Pajamas. Golf. Hey everyone. Welcome back to Fully Equipped. Chris McCormack joined by Blake Smith from Eurolf and we are with Julian Williams and today Julian, you’re coming with us on this journey that is Pajamas Golf. Now, we have an absolute loyalist following of gear heads and just sickos for all things cool when it comes to golf stuff. And we have landed you in the right spot because I’m looking at this table looking at your golf bag. I’ve been scouring pictures and videos and things that you have posted on your social media and dude, you have got some really cool stuff. Really cool stuff. about that. So to have you sitting in front of us here, I mean for those of us out there that may not know Pajamas and may not know your story, give us a little background. How did you get into what it is that you’re doing? Yeah. So for a little bit of background, um most people are familiar with in the tour world of people having wedges stamped, right? You know, it’s pretty common. You might see some initials on things or you know what used to be in the past people stamping um details on that custom build. So what lofts you know what kind of grind that they put that was a way of tracking historically in the past and what it’s kind of molded into these days is people bringing their personality into the clubs um that you see you see that on tour and then as as we kind of progress you know people in you know the more realistic golf world that we all live in you know all want the stuff that the tour players have. So, you start to get into stamping in that world. Um, where I kind of come in is being able to provide that level of stamp work, but also to kind of take it to the extreme. You know, the the people that you see doing stamp work, uh, you know, for tour players, they have to handle the volume of of stuff that’s coming in. you know, uh, you talk to, um, you know, people like Aaron Dill at Titalist where he had he can only spend like five minutes, 10 minutes total on the stamp work on a club before he has to pass it off. And, um, so to do something a little bit different, I kind of like to dive into the the the detail, per se. So, to be able to um, uh, you know, really bring any kind of idea to light and give it the attention that it needs to to get it there. So, I’m kind of trying to take what was built in the tour world to take that to, well, what could you do if time was not a limitation to that? Love that. And you have a really interesting background and almost kind of a this golf persona is like an alter ego. What is it that you do? You have a day job. Sure. You have a you have a normal job or I mean normal job for you. For us, I’m going h way above my pay grade mentally, physically, capability wise. What else is it that you do to occupy your time? Yeah, so my daily I am an aerodynamic test engineer for the Boeing company. Um I do wind tunnel development um for all sorts of different types of vehicles and specialize in um uh advanced test technique uh wind tunnel characterization methods. So, uh, my daily life, uh, you know, my professional life at work is, you know, hardened thought of, you know, crunching numbers and, you know, really trying to pay attention and like dive deep. And it’s it’s actually really nice to be able to like get home and then when I switch brains to the golf side, it’s like an entirely different thing that um is almost like therapeutic for me because I’m able to like hyperfocus on it because I’m working with stuff very small, very stamp work, uh painting with tiny little brushes and stuff. So, it’s actually just like a release from the monotony of like uh daily professional life and just hyperfocus on something that, you know, I really enjoy doing. And you’ve built it into a business. Yeah. And I mean in conversations that we had off camera and you are doing a lot of business. Sure. Yeah. Which is awesome. Now Blake and I, we are very similar in our parallels where we know a lot about a little. Sure. And it’s uh we we know a lot about golf clubs. We know a lot about fitting. We know a lot about design and just what goes into making a player better with their gear. And now you take what it is that we do to the next level. Add an extra element of customization. And I mean, looking at your bag, it not only does that intimidate the hell out of me playing the the Mura MB 101, I’m looking at that going, uh, a skill level here, not a thing. But I mean, it is just beautiful to look at. And the amount of time that went into that bag, I can’t even imagine. I mean, Right. Crazy. Yeah. And it’s it’s really cool that you’ve got both sides of your brain that you’re exercising, right? I mean, all day you’re, like you said, crunching numbers. You’re you’re really hyperfocused on science on on on like wind tunnel. That’s cool that you do the wind tunnel stuff. It’s interesting. I mean, you got the you got the Cobra driver and they’re all about that kind of stuff right now. So, um, but as far as like Mera goes, um, like what brought you to Meera? Like I know I know that like our ideals uh align with yours as far as craftsmanship and and really making you know the best of the best like what what made you gravitate toward Mera? Sure. um just kind of walk it back and you know starting this journey of stamp work um you know trying to build a customer base and find my niche right um usually what I was running into was uh most of my customers you know wanted something with uh you know a sports logo or you know something that you know identifies well with them but didn’t necessarily give me the the leeway for like an artistic outlet that I wanted and you know as I progressed through this journey you build you more techniques into it and you’re able to just do a lot more with it that um you know you eventually start to find what what makes sense. And when I did my first set of muras, um I I really, as you see with with hand stamp work and whatever, I I really love anything that’s like handcrafted that shows that there’s been hand work put into it, that somebody has like sweat over what you’re getting. And you know, seeing uh you know, things about Meera and all the lore behind it, you know, coming up in the community, that’s like something that you would covet is like such incredible like pieces of equipment. And as I was starting to grow things, uh, you know, then kind of came up with the idea of, well, let me buy a set for myself. Let me try to stamp it and like maybe this could be something. And, um, so, you know, bought my first set and this would have been, I don’t know, five, six years ago. Um, you know, stamp it up and I’m, you know, thinking this is going to be great. and I, you know, go post it to social media. And to my surprise, I actually got a lot of hate, uh, at first, uh, because, you know, people that are, you know, hating, how dare you touch those, you know, perfection, why would you do this and this and that. And so it was like kind of a shock to my system. Um, but lo and behold, uh, people that actually own mirrors and had them were reaching out because they now saw that I did stamp work to them. um you can damage a club very easily like that. But I then started to build the trust with people that actually own them and were like, “Hey, um like let me let me send stuff to you to do.” So there there was an amount of hate that I got there, but then there were still like the customers coming in that, you know, would ignore that and do things. And as we kind of progressed along, um I really like to play into the artistic styling of things. Um and and I like the boldness of the color. And so as I started to progress and do more and more and then eventually kind of get connected with the Mera team that um once they posted something on the official Mirror account, the floodgates opened. Now the official the official approval came out and people are like, “Well, now we can’t hate anymore.” So now I have the blessing. Now it’s legit. And so then from when that kind of went out, it just kind of allowed me to like open the door and as I get to like talk to more customers and the things that they’re into and look at what like the overall like mirror like ethos is is um you know and like Japanese culture and um Sakura cherry blossoms and uh you know scenery Mount Fuji that’s just kind of like opened the door to really play into um what I found that really resonates with not only the Mura community but it really like hits the artistic side of me that like wants to push me forward and do this. And you know, in the more recent stuff, things have just been progressing and getting much more complicated these days. Like you see this wedge that’s kind of like depicting um uh like a Japanese scenery of like a train crossing a bridge and like uh with cherry blossoms and Mount Fuji and stuff. And I find myself doing these projects and I’ll be in the middle of it and all this intricate stamp work and I’m like, how did I end up in this place? like I’ve gotten way too comfortable doing these what would have been monumental stamp jobs when I first started and I’m like how did I end up that I’m like able to do this and it’s able to like work for me. Um and it really has been like just like the mura community and being able to like play into that artistic style that people are now sending me stuff where they don’t even have requests anymore. They’re just like have fun. I want something special. Just do what you do. do do what you do and I want it to be special. And that’s like the biggest honor that you could possibly receive. And so that’s some of my favorite work to do is when people are like, I just don’t care. Just make something special for me. Here’s the kind of things that I like. And that’s what I like to do. Don’t tell the artist how to paint, right? Just just give him the canvas. Yeah. Like Angelo, you get in there and you paint a ceiling. That’s it. Just just paint the ceiling. Right. That’s it. Yeah. And that’s we’re going to get into a giveaway that we have partnered with Meera and with Pajamas and I mean we’re going to do just that. We’re going to we’re going to give you few wedge heads and just let you get creative with them. Yeah. We’re going to give them away. We’ll we’ll get into that a little bit later. You got to you got to hang around for the whole episode. We’ll get into it. But hey, how long have you been doing this now? Um like six or seven years. Okay. And when did it really start to kind of get to that aha moment where it’s like I’m good enough. I can monetize this. Yeah. Um so how it all like started uh one of my buddies um gone through and uh you know became like a PGA professional and was you know working at uh you know local club in Dallas. he got on staff with Callaway and you know he’s starting to like tell us about you know all of his cool fitting process and things and we were like that’s so cool you know not knowing somebody going through that that’s like amazing and he kind of brought it up that he’s like well the one thing I can’t do is like get any of the wedge work by like Anthony Toronto and he’s like at the time I always like to like try things I was forging knives at the time and so you know working with hammers and things and he just kind of like approached me and was like could you do the stamp work and I was like I don’t know. Maybe maybe um and then so you know went to Harbor Freight, bought $10 stamps and a cheap hammer and you know just started there doing it myself and then to try to do it for my buddies and um you know I was like well maybe there’s some interest here but can’t be much right you know you might do a couple things maybe pay for a couple rounds of golf a month like that would be cool. Um and um she started reaching out and like trying to see well how do you find people? Uh social media turns out to be the the method that you would go through and it um seemed to happen pretty quick that I found myself uh you know uh getting a lot of orders and like I mentioned a lot of it sports teams things like that because I didn’t really have um you know a name built a persona. Why would they come to me other than I can just do something? Um, but why would they trust, you know, what I have to say regardless of what what they’re into? And it happened just within probably like less than 6 months that it got to the point that was much stronger than I would have ever thought it would have been. Um, and a lot of that effort was playing the social media game, trying to find followers, talking to all these people. the conversions on that wasn’t nowhere like it is today. You know, it might have been a 10 or 20% conversion on what people would reach out versus like actually like sending clubs in to have the work done. And but in like a six-month window, I went from uh thinking, you know, a little bit of something to like fund my golf game to then now all of a sudden bringing in money and now I don’t have time to play golf. Um and that’s a a fine line that you you walk. Um, and you know, played that for a while, not really understanding where I wanted it to go other than I was really enjoying the golf community. And like, um, you know, finally starting to like meet others that do this kind of thing. Like being in this world is, I don’t know, more fun than anything. Like I mentioned, I got a day job, but I like to put my time into this because of, you know, everybody that you get to meet. And um, so then just kind of continued on with it. And over a couple years of doing it at that level of, you know, uh, maintaining my time and doing a lot more normal things, you start to build a name, you start to meet the right people, and then my, uh, personality into my stamp work starts to like come in and that persona, um, kind of changed. So it it really happened in like less than 6 months that I was like this could be a business and like go like actually turn it into a business and file an LLC and you know set up bank accounts and like an act like try to get trademarks on your name and logo and it was never supposed to be that. It was supposed to just be like let’s do this for my buddies and maybe a couple other people I know. Fun little pet project. Yeah. the the first set of wedges I sold um I was living in Nashville at the time and I had done some Tennessee Vol wedges just I was like this would probably do well in the area maybe I sell it on Craigslist or marketplace and the the first person I showed it to at my work down there as a Vol fan uh he immediately was like how much and not understanding value or anything like that I gave a number that was way too low and he said immediately I’ll take it and I was like damn it like one of those I set the wrong price and uh should have been 5,000 and yeah and so you just uh it it was funny at first that you know who would be interested in this kind of thing like maybe I might be able to sell a couple and then it just seemed like almost anybody that I showed was immediately like yeah that’s mine. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, that yeah that’s mine. Thanks. Yeah, and I I can tell you that the the mirror community has fully embraced you. Um I mean I was there on the beginning of seeing your stuff, right? So it was way back in the day. It was actually before I started working for Mera and then we saw some of your stuff and we’re like, “Wow, that is incredible.” And it aligns like right along with what what we like out of, you know, if somebody’s going to do something to a um rather than just like stamping their their initials into it. It’s got to be like artwork like that. So, justice to the club itself, right? Yeah. Yeah. And it’s and so we don’t like it when it takes away from the mirror beauty, right? just looking at 101’s when you just look at them in the bag like all right that’s like fine jewelry right so if it doesn’t enhance it then we’re like nah cuz we’ve seen plenty of things we’re like okay that doesn’t enhance it this for sure enhances it the whole motif the cherry blossoms like you said uh Mount Fuji um all the stuff that has to do with Japanese culture were all into that kind of stuff so I’m looking at 101’s and these these are your gamers yep um I kind of want to get into that like how did you come to that like I know that you got fit and all that kind of stuff. Kind of kind of take us through the the decision on the 101’s. Yeah, absolutely. So, I got to go uh do a you know a proper true spec fitting um in Dallas uh December and got to have you know fantastic time with it. It would have been my first time. Uh, you know, it’s funny that, you know, I live this like scientific world. Like I spend all of my effort pulling all these like crazy data sets and trying to pull this data, but when it comes to the golf world, I was like, how good could it be? Like I we we answer that question every day, Blake. How good could it be? Buckle up. We’re going to show you. And so, you know, starting to build this relationship a little bit more and, you know, working with True Spec and Merror, I was like, well, like, let me do it right. like let’s let’s go, you know, dive uh, you know, both feet in, like let’s let’s really get uh get it going. And so, you know, got to go through the proper fitting process. And before that, I’ve uh I’ve had a few sets of like mirror tournament blades is is what I played in the past. And um, you know, loved them, loved the feel. Um, and but, you know, if I’m going to go in and do this fitting, I wanted to go in, you know, eyes wide open, like, let’s see what we could do. and um so you know stuff that I had interest in just because of the nature of my work and stamp work blades are pretty um um a pretty obvious direction to take but a good canvas to work with. Didn’t want that to necessarily limit me. Uh but you know seeing you know the work of like the KM700s have gotten like extremely popular. I do more KM700s than anything else uh right now. Yeah. Fantastic. and you know so that that piques my interest that I wanted to look at that um um you know the TC201 and now the TC202 I just swung some earlier today and it’s like it’s you know also a fantastic club and then you know the MC502 so we kind of just went like eyes wide open and just started to work through the different clubs and hone in on you know the appropriate shafts which was a very different direction than I went um and uh I was uh as we were like honing in. We had ruled out the KM700 pretty early on. Uh ruled out the 2011 as well. And um we had narrowed down pretty close to like the MC502 versus the uh the MB 101’s. Okay. And um it was really interesting to to find that that difference. But um once we found and honed in on the right shaft, everything changed and the groupings all narrowed in and the difference between the two clubs uh was not so different. The groupings were very similar, you know, um a little bit distance-wise. I think I had like a three yard difference on the MC502. Um but it’s usually what we see. Yeah. And um but it, you know, grouping directionalitywise was just like fantastic with both of them. And then you know as it comes to a you know business decision there’s more room to work with on bigger canvas to work with. So you know you do have to play into that a bit that it’s like yes uh it does need to be good enough for me but if one is marginally uh better but doesn’t provide enough room for me to really do what I do then you know that kind of plays into MB 101. And also if you can hit a blade why wouldn’t you hit a blade right? It’s just saying so that’s why I’m not playing blades right now. I got that 202. I need some I need some help. So uh yeah. So that’s how I kind of ended up into it and we got to go through this whole process uh you know with the fitting and you know um also was talking that was really cool. In the past, I’ve built all my own clubs myself. You know, experimented with shafts and built them, and I’ve never actually gotten to have the experience that many of my customers have of getting to open a box of, right, essentially jewelry, like you say, and something to get really excited about. And, you know, I always stamp stuff myself and I’ve, you know, you find when you do things for yourself, you cut corners, you know, it just happens. I just don’t need to spend that level of detail on it. And so when we like started to like come together on this build, I wanted to do like what is a like no hold build look like? What is like the top end that you could do? And so like my wedges, I did all like uh you know scenery builds where you’re like multiple hours of just stamp work before you get into the paint. And it’s like just what could you do with it? And so I wanted to take the time to really do justice to the clubs that I was getting. And then as well as being able to send them off. They were built by TrueSpec and then was able to get them back and open that box and that was pretty magical moment for me. I’ve never had that experience, you know, an experience that I provide for so many others. Getting them to have that myself was like really enjoyable because I got to spend time away from the clubs and they come up and they’re like brand new and they’re fresh and then to go take those to the course. I got to also break them in. The very first round with them was at Chambers Bay just to like That’s real good. just to put like justice in uh for for background, I’m in Seattle. Um and so why not go play Chambers? Why you can’t? And um you know, I got to have a great round with them and it’s just like so everything about it is just to like kind of play into like the aura of the overall club that it plays and you wanted to do it justice, right? So So you got the raw heads, did all the stamp work and then sent the heads back to True Spec. Yep. They did the builds, put the custom fererals in there, and put everything together. You get the box back, open it up. And I mean, that experience taking something that you’ve put I mean, if you had to guess Yeah. the amount of time spent on the iron heads and the wedges just in the stamping and the paintwork, what would you guess you have invested in your gamer set? A lot of manh hours there. Yeah. Yeah. And then I have a follow-up question that you can think about. If you had to put a monetary value on this set, right all in, where where are we at here? Um, I’m curious. Let’s see. So, probably probably on the order of 20 25 hours into the irons and the wedges just in stamp work and paint. Okay. A bit ludicrous, but again, trying to do it for myself. I don’t care. Um, and what what would you put the value on that? Um, so starting over here with Mera. Yeah. If you’re looking at Yeah. If you’re looking at this set, which he is, I mean, obviously a a purist. There’s not a fairway wood in that bag. He has he has an MB 101 two. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Two with That’s ball striker right there. A Fuji Ventus 10X. Uhhuh. I mean, that to me, that’s very emasculating for me, by the way. the fact that he’s sitting here with a twoiron MB 101 with Aventus 10X in it and I’m over here going we also just picked this up today and got to have the first swing on it on the the true spec sim and you know not to toad it but it was 247 rightway. So um yeah I mean I’m looking at it I was like I saw that and I even kind of I gave you a little bit of [ __ ] with it. I was like, “Hey, um, so you just like walk up to the first te and throw down a ball and just stripe one right off the deck and then he gets up there and hits a 250.” And I’m like, “Oh, yeah. I think he actually does that.” He turns around and looks at you and go, “Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was a good fitting.” Is that what we’re doing? We’re still betting the g the game still on. Uh, yeah, I guess so. But yeah, it’s uh and and then I’m looking in the bag, too. I’m I’m sorry I jumped in front of your you’re answering the the manhour question and all that kind of stuff, but I I wanted to from your perspective retailish on the set that he has and then Okay, him adding his time and money into two through pitching wedge, right? So, you’re looking at $3200ish right in there. Okay. Um and then the build and the shafts and everything. I mean, I’d say probably in the area of high threes, maybe low fours. I was going to say, is it 4 grand to 4500? Yeah. Let’s say let’s let’s say four grand. Like just just that’s just a nice round number. And now and then you got your 25 25 hours of stamping and paint. If somebody were to buy this set from you after you’ve put all the time into it, what I mean, what’s the number look like? Yeah. Um, and don’t don’t lowball like the first guy. Yeah. Don’t lowball it. Well, these things are beautiful, by the way. And they’re not for sale. No, no, no. This is the gamer side. This is mine. Um, yeah. I mean, you’re probably talking, you know, on top of that, uh, you know, another 2500 to three grand to do it like at this level of detail. Um, and I still low, honestly. I think it’s $10,000 at a golf club. I can see that. It’s a one. I appreciate that valuation, but yeah. Um, I mean, just the way they look and I mean, it’s absolutely stunning. Yeah. I’ll I’ll post some pictures and and put it on our social channels cuz I mean they are fantastic to look at and it’s it’s a conversation piece. They look like pieces of art in the bag. Oh yeah, the ferals are perfect compliments. You got to match. You’ve got the koiish, you’ve got the cherry blossoms, you got every little intricate detail. And I mean to your point, you have built an artistic design around the Mirror logo, enhancing what it is that Mirror already does really well. Yeah. Super cool, man. And that’s that’s what we’re into. Now, I’m looking at it, too, and I see the K Grind. Yeah. Now, um sometimes when people see the K Grind, they’re like, I don’t know about that, but we know some things on our side and how amazing those are. Like, how did you come to that conclusion? Yeah. So, the K grind is um I’ve had a few different um sets of w a bunch of sets of wedges. Um I’m bad at selling stuff. I like to build things for myself and keep going, but so I’ve had a couple sets of uh you know the the K Grand 1.0’s and got to really have a good feel of those. I um um and I uh really like them, especially out of bunkers, especially like the 56 degree to be able to open that up and like the level of for lack of better words, bounce on like the back of the face and really opening up that through that like so for like sand wedge, I I push a K grind all the time. Uh love it. And then um you know like the current lineup, I really like the lower bounce of of the K grind these days compared to the uh um the forged uh wedges. Yeah. Yeah. I mean that that K grind out of the bunker and long rough is like a it’s like a cheat code. Oh yeah. My uh I really especially love uh the the grind for uh like my 52 degree that I use. Uh being able to like pick it clean as well. like it’s it just it feels like hitting a blade but has like more of the waiting characteristics to really generate that spin underneath that you’re looking for uh to control. Love them. Yeah. They’re also big conversation starters as well because nobody’s ever seen them like what is that? What did you do that? Yeah. If you don’t if if you’re not a gear head and I mean we are a very small demographic of the golfing population. somebody that just really dives into gear and is like, “Oh, I recognize that golf club.” You know, that was a prototype from And then, oh, okay, now I recognize this whole bag. I mean, percentage- wise of the golfing population, somebody that is has a true appreciation of gear, what would you say? 5% maybe. If that, if that, yeah, I’d say maybe two. Yeah, that’s fair. Two or three. Yeah. But yeah, I mean conversation piece. The whole thing is a conversation piece. You see that on like you walk up and you put your bag on the first tea. People are going like, “What? I’m not going to play him for money.” No. No. Not with a two iron. Especially if he throws it down on the first tea with no tea or just does like the Lauren Davies or the the the what’s uh what’s her name? Davies. Uh Laura Davies. Yeah. A little natural tea. A little little tap of the turf. Yeah. Tease it up. Wham. Right down the middle. 250. 30 foot apex height screamer down there. No big deal. Now I We didn’t answer this yet and and I apologize that’s doing you an injustice. Pajamas. Where did that come from? Um cool fun logo. You’ve got the custom belt buckle. Nice flex there. Yeah, that’s cool. Stamped as well. Yeah, as it should be. Why wouldn’t it be? Yeah. And then I saw the uh the cool one of one handstitch leather head cover on the on the driver. We don’t have that with us, but that thing’s super cool. Really cool. Um, where did that come from? Well, like we mentioned, this was never supposed to be a business, right? Um, and um, so date all the way back where the name comes from. Uh, you know, growing up, I’m a ’90s kid. Um, and, uh, you know, Nickelodeon, there was a show, uh, on Nickelodeon called All That was like a, you know, youth SNL. And um you know there are some skits on there and there’s one particular skit that was not done a lot but I don’t know it somehow resonated with me where Drake Bell was a ruthless mob boss named Tony Pajamas and as a kid I was like I forgot about that name. Uh I was like just the hilarity of that like as a kid I was like you know the ruthless nature of you know pajamas and so I had like adopted that as like my gamer tag um for like ever and was like you know pajamas and this and that and you know as we grow up and like you know start to get into my professional career that like has kind of like disappeared for many years and you know something in the back of the mind and when I started stamping it was pretty quick end when I was like I might be able to do something here. Um, and uh, at the time, um, uh, Wedge Wizard was everywhere. And I thought what was like the coolest thing that he had done was brand himself. You know, the wizard hat was like incredible to to do. It was everywhere. It was so distinct like you could recognize it from across the way. And it’s not to say like, you know, he tried to copy that, but it was like I think it’s important to like try to brand yourself as an artist. And you know, so I’m sitting down with some friends and trying to like come up of like what cool like idea could I come up with? And I was like, I’m thinking too hard on it. Like go back to what has worked in the past and like let me see if I can come up with a fun idea. Like uh I never intended it for it to be big. I was like don’t take myself too serious. Let me have a pair of polka dot pajama pants in like this world of golf. And did the logo and it kind of stuck. And I I was doing these French, you know, small, you know, levels of stamp work. And once it started to like grow, I was like, “Oh, no.” Like I’ve I’ve associated myself with this like, you know, very odd uh, you know, brand name and, you know, design. But I just love it. It’s uh, it’s fun. It’s me. I don’t take myself too serious. I’m not in this for like this isn’t an industry that that I’m not in it for the money. I’m just here to have a good time. And uh, you’re pure. That’s the purity of it. That’s really cool. And so yeah, I like to have a logo that tells me that or tells people that I’m not very serious like um so um yeah, so it was something again this if I would think about it in the past of like knowing what I know now, how would I try to start a business again? It could be 10 million different ways. But I’m very happy with where it’s gotten to uh and the organic way that it actually came about. And you’re happy with how it has turned out. You’re happy with where it is. You’re happy with the scaling and you’ve started to take on some partnership now, right? Absolutely. And you’re you’re doing more. It’s not just stamp work now. I mean, looking at this table, we’ve got some putters to talk about. We’ve got some different accessories and things like that. You have a you’ve got a partnership that you’re working with with Sugar Skull. Yep. And I mean, that’s cool company in itself. I’m a headcover nerd and collector and everybody that watches and listens to our podcast knows that that I’m a a sucker for all things cool when it comes to accessories. Yeah, your bag is cool, man. Yeah. Well, anything to distract lack of play. He just showed me his man cave earlier and I mean it’s incredible. I’m a big color guy and you know to look at that and everything on the wall is like it’s amazing. Yeah. The post I’ve been in. Yeah. But yeah, whenever we go play golf, his bag is people like stop and they’re like, “Whoa.” And he’s like, “Don’t touch. No, touchy. Don’t even look at it. Keep moving. Get.” But I So you guys do your own putters? Yeah. Yeah. That’s these these putters are Yeah. They’re cool, right? Yeah. I mean, they’re super cool. Walk us through this. the the mill work, the face design, the overall shape of the heads, and uh no welds. Yeah, no welds. Um so, walk it back a little bit. Uh again, the kind of running theme here is I never expected any of this to happen. I’d never expected to be in like manufacturing of putters and things like that. And um you know, it all comes down to meeting, you know, cool people in the world. And uh you know one of uh my buddies um shout out to Steve had you know reached out to me. This was years ago. They’d seen my work on Instagram and we kind of started talking and um you know he reached out about well hey I’m you know looking to start a putter company and um you know would like to um uh you know employ your work. You know it’ be really cool to like you know contract in some of the design work to you know try to elevate what he was trying to build. And um he uh like many of us was a big gear nerd. He had uh bought a lot of putters from a lot of the different uh you know companies out there that are making high-end you know unique one-off pieces and he had this large collection in his man cave and had realized I don’t actually like how these play. Um, and so he had kind of like set out to trying to put together the right people to mill something to the highest end in spec that you could have something that’s designed well, have something that has the right finishes to like a high-end level uh, you know, putter, but then be able to actually play and something that you would put it in the bag and you could have real players that would want to play it and not just have it on your wall in your man cave. And so he was kind of starting this journey and I got involved pretty early on um you know to do stamp work and like I said I’m an engineer um and I kind of don’t stop and hyperfocus in on things. So started asking all these questions and kind of diving in a bit further and you know he then kind of comes back and he’s like whoa whoa whoa it’s like all right let’s let’s be partners let’s let’s start something. Um and um so it’s kind of taken off from there. Um, and so some of the key things about this is, you know, geometries that you can play. But, uh, the freedom that I have to have a entirely blank canvas without a brand that you can just do whatever you want with is, I mean, it’s an incredible feeling to do. And, uh, you know, taking it beyond that, I’m able to stamp these clubs in a way that you don’t usually see because of the level of detail. It’s really hard to stamp putters. It’s not a flat surface that you could just put on and stamp. special jigs to hold that very specific putter shape to allow me to get to all these different facets on all these edges and be able to do the detail of stamp work um to have. So, it’s been a really cool process and uh was never supposed to be a thing. And then yeah, so we started then making putters for Sugar Skull Golf and um which has been really fun in its own right because of you know the head cover world. We’re now able to make these oneofone putters that match a oneofone head cover. Um, and you know, collectors really enjoy that kind of thing. Um, which we do. So, uh, yeah, the moment you take something into limited production and then to a oneofone, that that kind of changes the game. Yeah. When you when you put things like proto Yeah. or sample or collector or just one of one. Yeah. Yeah. Or just or just one of one. Yeah. And I’m looking, sorry to interrupt you, man, but I’m looking at this wraparound stamp. Yeah. Never seen that before, right? No. Super cool. It’s totally badass. And I like the fact that all of your designs tell a story. Yeah. I mean, you got to look at the stamp job, dude. On the toe. That is super cool. Yep. Yeah. And I was fortunate enough to roll these. Um, and I He was trying to take one of my games. Fell in love with one of them. There’s a carbon one is awesome. But you have different milling on the face, right? Um, now a lot of people, you know, sometimes they don’t necessarily know like what milling does and that kind of stuff. And I was feeling the differences, right? So, kind of dive into a little bit of like what you know and and your process with all that. Yeah. So, face milling does a few things. Um, you know, first off about everybody sees is the visual appeal, right? They want something that, you know, they like. But um what most people don’t know is the way that you mill a face changes the way that the energy is transferred through the ball um and through the club. And so most people would hear it as like a different sound in noise. Uh it all comes down to energy transfer. Um and so the deeper mill that you have um the more that the actual face, if you think about it, it’s vibrating slightly. Um and so that is a dampening of the sound. instead of it just being uh you know a solid block that transmits all the way through you get a little bit of dampened vibration and so the deeper mill that you have and the more milling marks that you have that are deeper that all adds into that. So think about the actual impact of the ball. It’s not a flat surface. You now have very small ridges that are impacting. So by um you know really playing into the different levels of um of mill you can really change the entire feel. Uh, I think we do somewhere around like nine or 10 different face mills and nine different face and it really does change the feel. I mean, I can ton it totally does. You’re all in on these shafts, too, right? So, like there are different I mean, putter shafts have come a long way, right? It’s not just a steel shaft thrown in there and then nobody thinks about it anymore. Um, with your background as an engineer, like kind of kind of dive into the differences in the shafts and stuff that you know. Yeah. Um, the shafts has been a wild journey. Uh, as I kind of mentioned early on with my fitting process, even being an engineer, I’ve always kind of been skeptical in the golf world. Well, how well can it work on something that is not it’s not a robot. You’re not that repeatable. So, you know, human nature, like how much better can something make you as a as a human? And um so it’s been a really interesting journey to be, you know, working on these putters and have them all like in the shop and trying all of these different shafts that able to like feel firsthand and be like this is way different than I would have ever guessed. And uh so then allows you to like really focus in on it. And so we went from um you know using like uh you know nice like seaper uh you know shafts were able to get like PVD coatings on it and be able to add like that level of customization to then you know start working with the graphite shafts and you know skeptical on those as well. You know you can spend a fortune on a on a graphite shaft but is it worth it? And um it absolutely can be and we’re kind of having a discussion uh earlier on about like what do I like about this shaft in my gamer I play an LGP shaft uh but in a few of my other builds and uh what we put is our stock shaft in most of the sugar skull builds is a KBS GPS. talking about the difference of what I feel uh in that. And um the big thing that I like about uh the graphite shafts is I feel like the level of stability over longer putts on being able to stay true to line is like huge. Um and I really got to test that to the extreme. Um you know, not not to brag, but I was at St. Andrews last week. Um and that’s that’s a good brag. You can go ahead. Yeah, that’s pretty solid, man. and um and so got to play with uh um you know some members and stuff that I’ve met along the way and got to have a good time but really got to put it to the test when you’re talking greens that are like 150 foot wide. Right. Right. Um like what do you do in that case? Yeah. Those are auto three putts for most people. Exactly. And um you know I was kind of reeling thinking back on it of uh yeah you know we have you know putter company. I built these players doesn’t mean I can putt. But uh in that environment, that was where I was able to really put it to the test of using these things that I know that I like stability from long distance and long distance in like the states is what like 40 ft 50 ft, you know, get like 70 foot putt. But, you know, there when you’re actually like taking like a half swing putter, uh, that it feels uh, and you know, still being able to like be true to your line and stuff like that was like really kind of mind-blowing that the things that you feel when you exaggerate that still plays into it. So, I find that with the graphite shafts that I respond really well to like the long distance stability. Um, you know, we’re talking about face milling changing like the softness of uh or like what the feel is from it. shaft changes a lot of the feel as well. And you find I think what some people will see is like the graphite shaft uh has like a dampening effect of the vibration that you come up um uh you know your feedback and feel from the face. So it really depends on what you’re into. Um and uh you know you were talking about you really liking a lot of feedback and face and that’s why you responded really well to the no mill carbon uh face with a steel shaft. Um and um so you can really kind of tune it for what you’re looking at. Um, but it has been a really fun journey to to go through that. And then also like the varying price range of like a KBS GPS versus like an LGP shaft is they’re just graphite. So what’s the difference? But would you say that about a driver shaft? No. Um, nope. Wouldn’t even question it. Nope. Wouldn’t question. It’s the same on uh on putters. And so it’s just been a fun journey and it really comes down to uh you know what are you into, right? And you’re I mean you’re using your putter 25 to 37 times. I hope it’s not a 37, but but you know I mean sometimes 40 point 40 I don’t know. I mean and you’re hit you’re hitting your driver 14 at the most. So it’s like you better get this thing dialed in. So it’s interesting like you could have a different graphite shaft with a different milling and and start to really dial in what you really want out of the feel. So it’s like the the the graphite shaft could take take some of the feel away, but you could put a little bit more back in there and really kind of find the right combination. Oh yeah, for sure. It’s kind of like the Goldilocks idea, right? Yeah. So it allows you if you as a player, if you’re able to like tune into everything you like from that perspective, yeah, you can dive in and go deep and like really build the ultimate club. But something else I kind of like to highlight from like a performance uh u perspective of for like average everyday golfers that might not be able to notice all those things, but they know what they respond well to. They know what they like to hear or like to see visually. And that’s where a lot of people make decisions. And I actually like to think of it with like the club stamping as well. Um puts a smile on your face. You want to go hit your wedges. uh you know, especially if you’ve like had input into that design and it’s something meaningful to you like that’ll absolutely golf is such a mental game. If you’re like so excited about you’re getting think about every time you get a new driver and you go play at the first round, it’s the best club you’ve ever this morning in your six. Now think if it’s personalized just to you to something that responds well to you. Um, and so that’s why I think about the stamp work and it’s the same with like, you know, building the putters is, you know, for the average everyday golfer, maybe you don’t need to dive that deep into the performance side of it, but if you can find something that you respond really well to, I really like this soft feel. I like this sound that it makes. I like this color to look at. I like, you know, X, Y, and Z. The confidence in the mental game, I think, is actually pretty big beyond just saying, I’m a tour player and I can feel a quarter gram in the in the head. Um, you know, you can do a lot more with it versus or instead of just saying like the raw outright performance, I can tune or you can tune something to like fit what you respond well to. Yeah. Look good, feel good, play good. Absolutely. Dress for success. I mean, there’s a thing. There’s a thing there. I’m looking at these uh these ball markers and divot repair tool. I mean, you don’t only do putters. I mean, you you’ve got you’re getting into you’re getting into that kind of stuff. They’re they’re really cool. Everybody’s pocket game has has been leveling up through the years and um yeah, I mean I’m no different. I like that. Yeah. And our buddy uh Doug Smith out of PGA Tour Live has gotten into this. He’s he’s created this little stick that he does with what’s in them pockets. Yeah. And he will That’s a cool thing though. He’ll stop tour players like middle of a practice round or on the driving range. Shake them down. What do you got in your pockets? Yep. And I mean some of the stuff that guys carry super cool though you saying pocket game like shout out Douggee Fresh. Yeah. It’s for sure so cool seeing these every everybody’s picky with like what they what I and I personally I have a different repair tool one coin or something I’m marking my ball with and three T’s and I try not to go past three T’s. Yeah. My my reasoning behind that is cuz when I reach in I don’t want to stick my cuz I had a te insert. That is the worst. That’s the worst. So, it’s like I’m I’m pretty picky about that. Like, and then at the end like you can you can show it to your friends and stuff and like the I mean the price is wrong, [ __ ] That’s that’s sick. Yeah, that’s super cool. Little Spongebob nod there. This We were talking before we jumped on air and I I know we’re going a little long on time, so let’s hit on that. I want to talk about this putter. Sure. So, this divot tool, Damascus Titanium. Yeah, dude. So cool. That Yeah, that is awesome. I’ve never seen anything like it. I mean, yeah. Um, so yeah, there’s there’s a few people out there that use it and, you know, you see it in some putters and things like that. It’s a really cool material to work with. Um, and uh, so essentially for for those of you, Damascus is a layered uh, version of, you know, steel is typically what you would see it at. You see it in like samurai swords and things that you can have uh, you know, sandwiching of material and then when etched, you can get different layers out of it to see. But titanium, you can use different grades of titanium layered and when uh you heat it up, you titanium self anodizes. If you think about like a high-end exotic car exhaust turning blue and stuff like that, titanium exhaust, so changes color, but by having the different grades of titanium, when you bring it up to an equilibrium temperature, they anodize at different levels, so you can get different color shades out of it. So, it allows you to have like some really vibrant things. Now, the problem that comes into working with it is titanium uh tends to overheat when you uh try to use power tools on it. So, if you use like a belt grinder or things like that, it can overheat and like burn the edges or uh it’s just really hard to control. Why would you? So, something in this uh engineer, you know, this is me making golf nerds, not us. So this is something me making a tool for myself and like setting out to do it and learning all these things that don’t work and like the way I I mentioned I used to forge knives so you know working with belt grinders and things is is common thing that I would do and I just couldn’t work with this and so I had to resort to files and sandpaper to make this to achieve this idea that I had in my mind uh which again when you’re talking hours you start putting like you know 15 plus hours into a divot tool is uh right you know a different perspective Um, and you know, the the complication of it as well is to bring the finish up to like 2,000 grit to really get that nice like uh, you know, shine to it. Uh, before anodizing, I had to do that before stamping. So, when you’re talking about a stamp that can bounce, it can have a little skip and like leave a mark. I did that all after 15 hours of hand work into getting it there. And so, talk about the pressure of uh, trying to stamp it was uh, was good fun. And you have to work yourself up to that. Prepares you for golf pressure, right? So you’re kind of like looking at it, you kind of go to a place, right? Yeah. The back to this putter. Yeah. Oh, it’s beautiful. The pressures of stamping. Oh, yeah. Now you the the stamp work on the bottom of this sick. It’s ridiculous. Really badass. Yeah. The face smelling awesome. It’s amazing. And you look over here on the heel. Mhm. And uh I mean I I can’t help but notice this is for an event in what is supposed to be Tucson. And there’s there’s a little little typo. There’s a little little error there. Little little typo in the in the the spelling of tuxen. And uh I kind of refer to this as like this if if this was me, I would embrace this and call it my Bob Ross putter. It’s just a happy little accent. It’s a happy little accent. And exactly right. Look at this. It’s It’s kind of spelled the way you’d think Tucson would be spelled phonetically. I was so confident in that spelling as well that I didn’t even know that it was a mistake. For reference, it says T U S O N. Um, and this is a putter that we’re going to be giving away at this event with all these collectors this weekend. And um I uh posted yesterday in the group chat with like 90 collectors uh the teaser photo of this. Yep. and immediately got roasted um uh about spellch check and I hadn’t even noticed it myself and uh but we fixed it. Yep. Right. I put some arrows on it so you can see that the letters are supposed to be flipped. Um but um yeah. So uh there’s no mistakes. Just a happy little handone. Yeah. Hashtag handmade. You know handmade. It’s not done by a machine and this is the proof. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I mean, we’re I mean, we’re sensitive to that. Like, there there are just slight imperfections once in a while, and you know, that’s it. It it doesn’t affect performance. So, you know, there’s there’s there’s something to be said about and tells you that somebody put the handwork in to to do it regardless of it being right or wrong. Um, and so for me, I would tell every single person that I played with about that putter and then point it out and go, “Dude, look at this. This is so cool. I got a story for you.” Yeah. It’s a story. It’s a conversation and I would much prefer to have something like that than I would something that is pristine and perfect because it’s it’s cool to look at but it doesn’t have that story. I was absolutely mortified when I learned way and uh it was it was really bad and immediately messaging all the people on the side and being like, “Oh my god, like I can’t believe this.” And then it just kind of came into, you know, then everybody, you know, popping in the chat and uh, you know, playing into it and, you know, misspelling all of their cities that they’re coming from as everybody’s traveling for this event and, uh, and it’s just now become a thing and so play into it. But, uh, you know, it’s just a reminder. It doesn’t matter how many clubs you do, stuff happens. Um, so, uh, you know, is it’s just a good reminder to like think about it and maybe spellch check. Well, it’s I mean I think it’s a great uh you can make a connection with your golf game. Hey, [ __ ] happens. [ __ ] happens. Absolutely. Moving on. [ __ ] happens. Right. Yeah. That that doubles behind me. Before we wrap this up, let’s let’s get back to this giveaway. Sure. Yeah. Okay. So, we have four wedges. Yeah. That you’re going to do. We’re not We’re not putting handcuffs on. We’re just going to let you go nuts. You do you. And Mhm. in order for you to get one of these oneofone pajama golf mirror wedges. They’re going to have to do some liking. So, we got to like fully equipped. Got to like mirror golf. Yep. Got to like pajamas golf. And then uh you know, if you if you tag a couple of friends along the way, then uh wouldn’t two or three. Two or three. I mean, you already have three likes in there. So, I think I think two. If you tag two people, two people like three pages, we can get you a one of one wedge from Jillian and Pajamas Golf. There you go. I think that’s a hell of a deal. Now, do we want them to be fully finished or do we want anybody of the winners to have a say in what they have? Oo, that’s the question. I I would almost defer to you. Yeah. What would you think? Do you want some influence or do you just want to go nuts and have a blank canvas? I mean, it’s It’s your world, brother. We’re just living in it. That’s right. I like the blank canvas side, but I don’t know if there’s interest in uh being able to say that this is mine. Or um you know, um maybe they get a maybe they get a say in color. Sure. Maybe you do the maybe you do the design, we figure out the winner, and then uh then we connect you guys and uh and do a little do a little custom color action. Sure. What about that? Yeah, I like that. Maybe add a little bit of personalization, maybe some initials or something like that. But yeah, unless they have something really important that they want, right? They can I guess they got they can have a trump card. Sure. Sure. Sure. Yeah. So, there we go. If they’re up to me, I’d be like, you go. You do your thing. Sure. Let him cook. Just do put some blue in there. A big blue guy. So, we’re gonna likefully equipped mirror golf pajamas golf. Tag two of your buddies. chance to win one of one sounds like a collaboration. Yeah. With pajamas. Yep. That’s super cool. So, make sure give us a like, subscribe. We’ll see you next time. [Music]
6 Comments
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Cool🎉
I’m happy to have been your mane golf supporter 🎉
great episode!
Great Episode as always. Already follow on IG will tgere be a specific post to enter the giveaway as I"m a bit confused as to how to enter ATM. Looking forward to next weeks episode!!!