Sportswriter Rick Reilly | How Golf Explains President Trump

Sportswriter Rick Reilly | How Golf Explains President Trump

welcome everybody to tonight’s program at the 
Commonwealth Club this woman is terrifying with   the time thing I know she looks terrifying she’s 
gonna have those little numbers the club can be   found I’m gonna try to keep him in line all 
night so this is the club can be found on the   Internet at Commonwealth Club work that’s your 
lead that’s my lead my name is John Ryan so you   just so you know who you’re talking to you guys 
you go I’m an author formerly a sports columnist   with the San Francisco Chronicle and now I’m a 
media consultant I’m in my 13th season at the   San Francisco Giants just came oh thank you 
thank you how many books now I’m working on   my fifth fifth one comes out next year so I’ll 
be back on this stage right George yeah thanks   can I interview her yes even exactly I’m happy to 
be your moderator for this program on irrelevant   but ultimate kind of depressing topic no we’re 
gonna have Rick is gonna make it fun somewhere   the other night he goes there was a guy sitting 
right in front and he’s like I I didn’t really   want to come here because I get so depressed 
and I think I’m gonna if I leave don’t take it   personally I’m like no we’re gonna have fun only 
a few chances where we could really feel better   about what an idiot this guy yeah and he’s like 
okay and it’s not gonna matter because it’s not   political it’s just idiocy he’s like okay and 
then he stayed the whole time oh good all right   so joining us as you can tell is rick reilly 
like many of you I have followed Rick’s career   for a long time and we were at many events 
yes we were together your Sports Illustrated   to ESPN member of the national sports writers and 
sports casters Hall of Fame voted national sports   writer of the year 11 times anybody have more 
than that Jim Murray how many 13 13 Jim Murray   never be broke remember Jim Murray oh the best LA 
Times LA everything and when we all came into the   business we all mimic Tim for his own good until 
we figured out who we know maybe we can’t do that   and Dan Jenkins oh yeah I never tried that one 
I tried it it’s too hard so USA Today called   Rick the closest thing sportswriting ever had to 
a rock star and he’s written about everything from   ice skater cat you yeah this is a range here Rick 
okay everything from ice skater cat during of it   behind the Iron Curtain to actor Jack Nicholson in 
the front row of the Lakers games from wrestling   priest in Mexico City I missed that one yes two 
mushers at the Iditarod from playing golf with   President Clinton to playing golf with OJ Simpson 
yeah and back again that was after the incident   though oh wait what we called it the incident 
the incident okay I remember he was like so uh   I found him out there at Rancho Park playing with 
another guy just two he had no one to play with   it was just a stranger he’s playing with I said 
could I play the back nine with you and he goes   yeah but no questions about the incident because 
he he got off if you remember I do remember and   I’m like no no questions about the incident he 
was only golf questions and I’m like absolutely   I’m a sports writer and he goes okay and so 
my first question was now as your backswing   changed since you killed those people are so to 
continue he loves sports writing four years ago after publishing what you figured to be 2 million 
words on sports yes I’ve counted them up one day   when you have to write you’ll just do anything 
other than write you know oh I got to clean the   gutters maybe I should count how many words I 
publish oh maybe I should train the gerbil the   hook you know jump over it whatever and and I 
figured out with all the words I’ve published   books screenplays this that and you know for a 
while there you were also with ESPN they make   you do so much stuff so I decide it was 2 million 
words Wow and of those 2 million about 400 were   any good I know stop but he’s the author of 13 
books including his latest commander and cheat   how golf explains Trump so welcome Rick to the 
club and to San Francisco but I just want to say   it’s you know I’ve been on a book tour for three 
months I’m so sick of myself so one time and I   remember the worst moment I ever had on a book 
tour was in Minneapolis at the Mall of America it   was snowing it was like a Christmas book to her 
something and they had they had behind me like   here was my podium and they had 500 cookies like 
I’m in a mountain right lined up like a mountain   and two giant things of lemonade and then they 
had five hundred books over here and then they   had a serpentine tape that would go from where I 
was gonna sign all through the bookstore winding   in and out and then it came time to start and it 
was a one-guy and what do you do you still got to   go through with it right right so I did my little 
twenty minutes spiel at the end he goes like this   make sure you don’t you don’t have to raise your 
hand and he kept his hand up I’m like alright   what’s your question tweet them cookies he only 
came for the cookies oh and didn’t buy a book by   one bug he felt so bad he had a lot of cookies 
okay see got it he got his money’s worth I know   and everybody thinks this is so glamorous because 
they don’t see all of those those moments you   know when you’re doing your book tour but anyway 
nobody’s complaining about you know no one more   though tell whatever you want remember Bob Ryan of 
course Boston sports right oh yeah so uh my Booker   calls him up hey would you like to do a podcast 
with rick reilly he goes sure so we called him   like last week Friday 12 o’clock bob rick reilly 
i’m gonna do a podcast with you he says great how   you been we shoot the breeze throughout 30 seconds 
he goes well I’m ready when you are I’m like I’m   ready when you are and there was three minutes of 
excruciating silence and I’m like what’s what’s   he waiting for I’m sitting here well maybe he’s 
getting the equipment ready and then after three   minutes he goes what the hell’s going on and I’m 
like I’m waiting for your question Bob he was   I’m waiting for your question he thought I said 
I’m on your podcast he goes I’m on your podcast   neither of us had a podcast stupid and I said you 
can’t tell anybody this story not told anybody so   my first question so you obviously you had a 
history with Trump so I’m interested to know   when you first met him and if he did the handshake 
I’m fascinated by the Trump handshake um you know   we knew him for so long in the USFL remember 
he signed Doug Flutie and then he sued the   other owners cuz they didn’t pay his salary Flutie 
salary like what yeah you’re the other team yeah   he sued them yeah and then we luma fights and then 
I remember one time he we were used to come to   pebble by the way I can beat anybody anybody that 
plays with me they have a hard time beating me of   any age yeah well I played pebble you played seven 
times never made the cut and his pro made the cut   four of the seven so maybe Donald you’re the wait 
yeah three times rent Tahoe celebrity I played   with him once during that and he never finished 
in the top half one year he was like third from   the last these are celebrities there’s not all 
athletes and you get strokes but then that was the   year he slept with both a porn star to play babe 
so he was tired he tired yeah he has that anyway   he comes up to me at Pebble and he’s like Rick 
Reilly great a sports writer in America this is   back when he liked me I’m like I don’t thinks I’m 
looking around for Jim Murray no yeah and Marla’s   like he’s not kidding he loves you looking she 
opens her purse and he’s got one of my columns my   goalie that’s what is this I want you to write a 
back page call him about me and like I don’t think   so but when I did who’s your caddy my book about 
caddying for famous people I called him up and he   said yeah I could do it but when I got there he 
had nobody to play with so I had to play with him   but it’s just crazy when you’re with Trump because 
all of a sudden he’s if he likes to introduce you   around I like to show off right this is Rick Riley 
managing editor of Sports Illustrated and then the   next guy I was this is rick reilly publisher of 
sports that and he’s like he goes it sounds better   and then he’s like he brings luigi luigi come 
here Luigi was voted best lasagna maker in the   world luigi is like and then my buddy had dinner 
with him and Milania in 2016 during the campaign   and they’re all having dinner and the one wife 
says to Milania where are you from and she says   I am from Slovenia and Trump goes say Austria 
it sounds better she started telling people she   was from Austria and then the Slovenian press 
got all mad and she got thrown under the Trump   wagon the pile of people there so the first time 
you played golf with him the RIC did you see what   you eventually came to see on how he plays not 
until the first hole was it not the first hole I   think it was two Mulligan’s off the first tee it 
was something funny he did it Ireland the other   day he goes out there he puts one ball down on the 
tees you see this last week so he tees up his shot   first hole then he has another ball next to the 
first one then he hits the first one he likes it   picks up the ball puts it on the ground picks it 
the hall puts in his pocket no Mulligan’s today   nobody gets a mulligan oh except for the Mulligan 
you had ready to go and maybe three more in your   pocket because the caddies tell me he’s always 
got three or four balls in his pocket the old   drop pocket you know move anyway I’ve lost track 
of what we were talking about so the first time   that first round of golf you played with him oh 
did you you know you just get a mulligan there   you talked no I didn’t that bird flew too low and 
one time he made a six give me a four I’m like we   are playing a metal bet that’s strokes right like 
it’s for twenty bucks like like I can’t give you a   four I’m we’re playing for money I always take one 
for newspaper for he called it then one time I’m   in like this for par on a par five right I’m in 
like this for par so I’ve he’s gonna give me this   little putt for five he’s laying way off the green 
in five already he picks it up because I guess   that makes this good like what do you mean is that 
it did you just take a gimme chip in and by then   he’s got this he always has these golf carts with 
this he has the caddies rigged the governor so it   goes really fast which is why we’ve paid over 
500 grand now for golf carts because the Secret   Service needs golf carts that they can rig to keep 
up if he didn’t do that we could use his carts at   Bedminster mar-a-lago Washington no problem but so 
when he plays mar-a-lago they got a truck carts in   from Miami Jerry rigged him and keep up but anyway 
did you just take a gimme chip it and by the time   you ask he’s in the super cart with the super 
caddy and they’re off 100 yards out of you and   that’s how he deals all his cheating he’s always 
a 150 yards ahead kicking it puzzling that fudging   it foot wedge in it it’s the caddies calling 
Pele so much Bailey thank you you’re welcome so how many times do you think you’ve played 
around to go off with him no no it’s just the once   that’s all that was just like okay so it wasn’t 
okay gimme chip in and this and that and so Trump   everything about Trey he’s kind of like Mike 
Tyson like in terms of style like everything’s   gold toilets and white pianos with gold trim 
and so at his golf course is he always puts in   a hundred foot waterfall now 100 foot waterfall 
is ridiculous so at this course we played in   Westchester the waterfalls just pound and honest 
and the him splashing on the green and you’re like   you’re away what you’re away I can’t yeah it’s a 
nice day what it’s so stupid so I asked Tom Fazio   who builds his courses and are used to now I can’t 
you really can’t handle them anymore and I’m like   how do you let him put in those completely ugly 
waterfalls that ruin every course and he goes   because he pays but then you find out there’s 
a chapter he doesn’t pay he doesn’t pay people   this poor painter at Doral painted this whole 
Golf Resort got ship shafted 300 grand and he   went through mr. Trump you did not pay me my three 
hundred thousand I’ve paid you enough Carlos name   was Carlos Enriquez so this little painter and his 
brother sued the standing I don’t know why this   was never reported suit the standing president 
United States and one 300 grand and fees yay so   why wouldn’t that get I don’t warded you know this 
thing with Muller like always terribly conflicted   well the problem was Muller put in 50 grand to 
join Trump Washington which isn’t in Washington   sin Virginia because when Trump bought it he 
okay fifty thousand okay so Trump Muller puts   in his fifty grand Bennie’s decides it’s too far 
out there he doesn’t want to so he says okay I’m   resigning and in his contract everybody’s contract 
when you signed up you get the money back when you   quit if there’s another person to take your place 
like most country clubs Trump goes I’m not paying   you and more like you owe me the fifty thousand 
I’m not paying until Muller let it go but then   Trump used it like this guy’s conflicted angry 
Republican or whatever he said but it’s a lot of   the crap he’s into starts with this wise and 
cheating he started in golf Trump Jupiter he   got sued by 50 guys at Trump Jupiter when he was 
president again for seven million dollars because   he didn’t give him back their money and it’s 
right in the contract so he lost that too then   he’d repealed and lost that and again I didn’t see 
anybody reporting it but a lot of the trouble he   gets into starts with his stupid moves and golf 
yeah well and all like you said all the lying and   it was interesting somewhere in your book you talk 
about how the lying became contagious among other   people and I thought will that explain strong 
spice or is Sarah Sanders right well exactly   so this guy for three years this crew from Golf 
Channel followed him around the country the world   for this thing called Trump’s fabulous world 
of golf and so this Golf Channel and he goes   I said what was it like well he was fine except 
that he’d always say we were from sixty minutes and he’s something one time we were walking 
through mar-a-lago filming him and trouble   goes this is the crew from sixty minutes and 
he said it’s a group of Japanese businessman   got up and bowed there from Golf Channel like 
why isn’t a crew from Golf Channel good enough   I don’t know and then those guys started to say 
they were starting to say like yeah we’re from   sixty like it so the guy that ran is Cruz one 
day my wife came to me and says you know you’ve   been lying so much why do you lie so much and 
he realized it’s from hanging around Trump yeah   I honestly don’t think he remembers his lies 
for instance he goes to open Trump Turnberry   right in Scotland which is a great course his 
only great course and but it was a great course   before he got it but whatever and he gets there 
the day after the brexit vote and he says good   for you Scotland taking your country back and 
Scotland’s like we voted 63 percent against we   didn’t want to do this but anyway he didn’t hear 
any of that so he’s like blah blah blah and some   guide through Nazi golf balls at him on if you saw 
this it was crazy bagpipers nuts every day is nuts   with Trump but then he gets home he starts own I 
predicted Briggs and I was there the day before   and I said you’re gonna take your country back and 
they like no here’s you on the newspaper the day   after and he just now he has said it three times 
since yeah so there’s something warped up there   like yeah what’s going on here like the other day 
he said my father was born in Germany twice know   it we have born in Queens where does that where 
does that live even get him and I something I’ve   really wonder with him like does he kind of is 
he losing his mind but his mother was born in   Scotland right yeah and he said oh my mother was 
on vacation in Scotland in America from Scotland   where she met my my dad no she followed her 
sister’s to New York to become a maid it’s   called chain migration look it up that’s what your 
mother did right she was one of Seven Sisters and   then he you know very affectionately and as the 
devoted son went and visited the home that she   grew up in when he was back in Scotland correct 
well okay so three years this mother his mother   was she still spoke Scottish Gaelic it’s kind of 
a broke they had him up there she would every year   and she would always take one of the daughters 
but Donald wouldn’t go never go doesn’t care but   then he bought this land in Aberdeen and he needed 
approval from the Scottish Parliament so all of a   sudden he wanted to rediscover his Scottish roots 
he goes I’m scotch I wish they don’t say they’re   oh he lands in Scotland it goes oh we just left 
the UK it’s good to be in Scotland you just ask   Baron Hill google it in ten seconds what is 
the anyway so he goes to visit his mother’s   childhood home by now she’s gone and the cousins 
there and they haven’t seen him since he was two   and he goes in there for ninety six seconds and 
here I got well good to see it hey okay it comes   back out and holds a two-hour press conference 
yeah a lot of familial affection there but the   best thing about Scotland was the signs cuz I was 
there with him follow him around Scott well really   the signs were so great the Scottish you think 
we hate him get a load of these Scots and he’s   from Scotland he’s half Scottish they would love 
anybody except this guy but they hate blowhards   and he is a blower deluxe so the signs were great 
and so in the book we do a little Scottish the   Scottish and then the English translation like 
Trump is a muckle gape it means I know nothing   and you’re clueless numpty I don’t know what that 
means it o’clock wanker your orange bar bag King   Splatt was like oh I really need a translator 
this is great I think we should do those I like   I like that it was really fun so one thing that I 
mean there are a lot of things I don’t understand   but one of the things I really don’t understand 
is that you know you went did your reporting and   there’s story after story you could have filled 
probably ten volumes well exactly you know half   the stories you get to the end of them and it be 
right-wingers Republican friends of mine okay you   couldn’t believe what this guy did and blah blah 
blah and then I’m like this is great thank you so   much oh you can’t use it yeah I mean I can’t use 
it this is fantastic and you said you hate how   he cheats and you pisses you off yeah I don’t 
wanna lose my passport yeah I don’t want to be   audited exactly so people run scared of this guy 
which maybe I should be too but you still got to   speak up don’t you even if it’s even if it’s just 
golf it’s just golf it’s none it really doesn’t   matter but because it matters so little it matters 
the most because it’s the easiest thing to cheat   at because it’s there’s no refs in golf right 
Warriors game we’re gonna have UMP s– baseball   refs I mean were easy we’re F some golf there’s we 
call our own fouls it’s since Golf is older than   the piano Golf has always been a sport of calling 
of you don’t cheat your friends because it’s so   easy if you’re a hundred yards over there and I’m 
a hundred I trust you’re not gonna kick it and   you trust I’m not gonna throw it but this guy is 
happy to cheat his friends one friend of mine said   he saw him do this he he thinks we’re all he’s he 
says he thought we were Oliver on this side of the   fairway but I’m behind him and I can see what he’s 
doing but he can and he’s near the green behind a   hill and he hits this but he’s got the ball in his 
right hand fake chip runs up I hold it pulls the   ball out of the hole yes one guy caught him doing 
the old lick your marker put it on the bottom of   the putter go down to pretend you’re marking your 
ball but you pull the you slide the marker off the   four feet ahead so there’s nothing now here balls 
in your pocket but the markers now four feet ahead   for an 8-foot putt four feet that’s why he’s my 
pick to win at Pebble Beach because he’s won he’s   won tournaments where he didn’t even play them I 
know yes so why do people put up with it why would   anybody want to play golf with this guy well I 
asked a lot of people that and a lot of people say   Donald screw you you can’t cheat we’re playing for 
money and he goes ah say either like oh my friends   do it all the time and and say if you don’t cheat 
you’re not gonna be able to keep up with him and I   honestly think that’s a really good metaphor for 
his whole life he thinks he’s gonna you’re gonna   cheat him right before he cheats you know his dad 
didn’t play he learned the game at this really   rough kinda needs a shave and a new shirt course 
in Philly called Cobbs Creek huh and it was it’s   a famous place where like Titanic Thomson play 
and there’s there’s a group of guys there that   that try to con you like you’d be looking for your 
ball and you find out it’s under his foot you know   and all kinds of stuff and tricks like bet you 
$100 I can make this putt and the night before   they’re late a hose out on the green and the 
water the hose and there’s that little imprint   that no one can see except a guy that hits it so 
there’s all kinds of tricksters at this course and   somehow he got the idea I can cheat you because 
you’re gonna cheat me because I think he’s sick   in the head and he’s got to win at all things 
and so golf is the perfect sort of thing for   that because he can beat you on the first don’t go 
I kicked your ass in the second hole and the third   hole so that’s what he said does sometimes then 
sometimes a guy who go trump without you owe me   he played my buddies you owe me $27 and my buddy 
goes I’m not paying you cheated on every fricking   hole and he goes it’s okay I got a hot girlfriend 
and a white rolls-royce and he walks off you know   Sam farmer the NFL writer he took ten bucks off 
him which is rare and Trump gets out to ten and   it just takes forever any give it it sounds like 
okay he can’t get the ten out because I thought   the ten was gonna rip he just can’t stand to lose 
and it doesn’t matter I talked to the psychiatrist   he said you don’t understand narcissists don’t 
feel shame mmm they just have to win he said   he said for him losing or not being number one 
not just losing being number one is like a bath   to the Wicked Witch of the West hmm like it’s 
gonna kill him mmm and so you got to keep that   in mind when you hear him say crazy he’s got to 
be all that that bucket of self-esteem is just   constantly leaking and it’s got to be filled up 
like I guess I should take as a compliment even   when it’s not because he needs that over and over 
and I don’t know how that started and how does it   not catch up with him like I’m sure when you read 
that he was gonna run for president I mean what   was your reaction when he declared his candidacy 
well this is why I had to give up retirement and   I didn’t want to I’m living in Italy I’m retired 
I’m living in there three months a year or at the   beach screwing around reading all those books I 
said I read and I never really read and californee   and learn to play piano and speak Italian it was 
great and I just was so happy but then I kept   seeing on my phone hey I’m Donald Trump and I’m a 
winner because I’ve won a teen club championship   against the best players in the club that’s that’s 
the young guys and that’s with no strokes and like   you liar you already told me how you did it which 
is that whatever he buys a new course he was so   proud of this by the way whenever I buy a new 
course I play the first round by myself with   Melania and you know I’m gonna win that and so 
that’s the club championship and he puts me puts   his name on the wall so I started looking into 
it liked it so I started calling people at clubs   I knew like oh yeah one time he came in and he 
saw who would won while he was gone he’s like   oh I beat that guy all the time make me the 
champion so poor Joe schmo’s name comes off   and they put Donald Trump’s name up and then golf 
dot-com reported that he was in the filling up or   with kim jeong-hoon and they were holding the club 
championship in mar-a-lago and he couldn’t make it   and a guy named Ted virtue who was the money 
guy behind the movie green a green book okay   when’s it and so fine month goes by Trump comes 
back he sees Ted Ted congratulations you won the   club championship yeah thanks mr. president you 
know when you’re with this president playing golf   there’s 30 golf carts there’s one cart that’s 
got the missile there’s the thing that’s got the   poor – bomb shelter and it looks like a portal 
app but it’s on its side and they throw the   president in there if he if they have to yeah and 
there’s a cart with the files of and there’s the   nuclear bomb and there’s this guy and the chief 
of protocol and that goes from hole to hole hole   to hole no matter where he plays correct that’s 
why we spent so much freaking money on his golf   plus the Air Force wanted all that so anyway he 
sees virtue from two three holes over come on and   all thirty golf carts and Secret Service and ooze 
ease and swats and Marines and they all come up   on Ted virtue and go and Trump goes but you didn’t 
really win it because I didn’t play in it she says   like huh yeah it’s funny mr. president no we’re 
gonna play with the last six holes he’s like what   we’re gonna play the last six holes for the real 
championship what crazy world is this and Ted’s   like well I can’t I have my son here with me oh he 
can play and so they go off to play the last six   holes they go to this par 3 with water in front 
Trump hits it in the water they see the ripples   splash ripping the two virtues hit it on the green 
Super Mario Kart is way ahead by the time they get   there Trump in his caddie are lining up the kids 
ball kids like hey that’s my ball mr. president Oh   caddies like now this is the president’s ball you 
went in the water and they’re like no I didn’t and   Ted goes don’t worry about it and that was a new 
ball we’ll get you a new ball and then Trump makes   the putt and then he wins the championship and now 
yeah so this is true so West was not even my story   this was golf calm unbelievable was there so did 
you think you were gonna write a book right when   he declared his candidacy or was there a tipping 
point and we just said okay I have no choice now   I got to write this book well first of all I’m 
starting to get blisters typing emails to people   I’m so mad about this because I’m from a golfy 
family we didn’t cheat my dad taught us to play   but play it where it lies that’s what he always 
said by the way that’s how the bushes play they   play in two and a half hours and they shoot 105 
and they don’t care they never touch the ball you   played with them no but uh Ben Crenshaw is a good 
friend of mine Obama yeah you know Mike we’ll bond   and Qo’noS oh yeah with a very strict to the rules 
this guy completely opposite was right you played   with Clinton I will tell you that story okay but 
anyway that’s a different kind of cheating but my   family we never cheated like we just played the 
Reilly round up my family tournament and nobody   called in said hey I won the tournament from 
Philly or from for the Singapore we play up as it   lies that’s how we were taught to play this really 
bothered me and because we hold this tournament   my dad’s honor and as he was all about doesn’t 
matter what you scored just don’t cheat your   family or friends and then this guy was getting 
away with telling people he’s a 2.8 handicap when   he’s really a 10 I mean Jack freaking Nicklaus 
is 3.5 yeah you think I’m gonna bet you over   Jack Nicklaus because he’s lying you look on his 
handicap page it takes twenty scores to get your   handicap right he’s taken eight years to get the 
twenty scores when we know he played 66 times 2018   so you cherry picker he’s just cherry picking 
his best scores he’s messing with the slopes   and handicaps so it comes out even lower and he’s 
just so full of crap you he’s just as I say he’s   still full of hot air you can float him in the 
Macy’s parade don’t really bother me so that’s   when I started looking at so I thought well okay 
maybe I’ll write this for hires athletic right but   then I started thinking the world has to know what 
I don’t know anything about all this other stuff   but I definitely think they should know this guy 
is a cheater mmm-hmm because we just don’t cheat   in golf I mean I can remember Arnold Palmer saying 
I never one time we were playing Arnold Palmer and   I were gonna play and he goes on another guy’s 
gonna join us okay who is it this guy I’m gonna   do business deal with I’m not sure about him and 
I always play golf with a guy before I sign a deal   I’m like why he said because you can’t hide who 
you are in four hours golf will bring out the   worst in you and if you’re gonna cheat me out here 
I know you’re gonna cheat me in golf and if you’re   gonna lose your temper out here you’re gonna lose 
your temper in a business meeting and I don’t want   any part of you and that is so true you know it’s 
if you’re gonna cheat and golf you’re probably   gonna cheat on your taxes you’re gonna cheat on 
your wife you might cheat to win an election you   might cheat to screw up an investigation you might 
lie about how you got money you might lie how your   bank you might lie about a lot of stuff you know 
I always say golf is like bicycle shorts reveals   a lot about it and it reveals a lot about him 
that he cheats at golf because it’s so easy   it’s like going into a baby cradle and just taking 
everything you can do it but what’s it say about   you mm-hmm well and you suggest in the book that 
because I wanted to ask you how do you see that in   his in his governance but you suggest in the book 
that he could be making decisions about that that   are in favor of where he has golf courses like 
the countries he banned early on no those were   the countries that didn’t have his golf courses 
but UAE and Saudi Arabia number the Muslim ban   seven countries well UAE wasn’t in it and the 
largest population of Muslims and who had the   most terrorists as Indonesia and they weren’t in 
it huh that’s interesting because Trump has two   courses in the UAE UAE and two in Indonesia Puerto 
Rico turns his back on Puerto Rico people don’t   know that he had a course he was running a course 
in Puerto Rico that he agreed to come in and save   and I’m gonna bring my friends all my celebrity 
friends down here and I’m gonna come down a lot   and Ivanka it’s gonna be great and they’re like 
well we don’t we think we’ve tried it now for   a year mr. Trump we give up no take out a loan 
from the government so this golf course takes out   thirty two million dollar loan from the Puerto 
Rican Bureau of tourism and then in the middle   of the night Trump and his boys pick up stakes 
and leave and just leave him holding a thirty   two million dollar bag so no one seemed to care 
about that but I mean I’m not saying that’s why   he turned his back on Tuerto Rico I’m just saying 
that’s twice he’s turned his back on Puerto Rico   and then criticized them well Florida you know 
was able to pull itself up but you know Puerto   Rico’s bankrupt yeah they didn’t take care of 
themselves yeah and he’s got courses in Florida   and none in Puerto Rico exactly okay I’m gonna 
ask a couple of these questions I’ve already two   questions well I’m sprinkling them oh I see their 
questions are better than mine Rick so um how   do you feel about Tiger Woods’s friendship with 
Trump and how do you feel about Tiger Woods this   is another half hour I know well good question I 
love the game I don’t like the man he doesn’t tip   he’s not good with fans he’s really really dirty 
so I’m a fill guy cuz Phil always tips hundreds   no matter who it is Tiger I don’t think Tigers 
seen the inside of his wallet for like ten years   really yeah but anyway so how do I feel about 
tiger and Trump’s friendship okay so this came   out during the campaign that Trump said Tigers a 
really really good friend of mine Tigers people   said we can’t stress enough that they are not in 
business together and there is no relationship   tiger though is building a course designing a 
course in the United Arab Emirates that Trump   will run and Trump so he’s building the course for 
me which he probably is Trump probably lined him   up for it and put through the Trump Tiger people 
wanted nothing to do with him so then Tiger goes   on Stephen Colbert this is like I don’t know three 
months ago hey tell us about all the presidents   you play golf with and Tigers like ah Bush 41 
43 Clinton Obama and he stops and they’re like   and Colbert’s like or what about Trump and Tiger 
goes you said presidents gets a big laugh from   the crowd in other words this guy’s no president 
and he has his right eating grin on his face and   so he clearly doesn’t respect Trump as a president 
and then Trump has said three times publicly golf   should be an aspirational sport in other words 
if you’ve made enough money you and can join a   country club then you should be able to play golf 
can you frickin believe that 89 percent of golf   played in this country is played on public horses 
it’s a great game for hours 31 five bucks with   your pals beers it’s fantastic you don’t need to 
join a country club but see the hypocrisy of then   giving a Fred Presidential Medal of Freedom Oh to 
award to a guy who would have never played golf   or had the chance to play golf if the president 
was running things Tiger Woods was the son of an   army vet he played we played military courses Lee 
Trevino hmm he never played up country club until   he was 25 years old savvy Arnold Palmer was the 
son of a pro who wasn’t allowed in the clubhouse   so get the F out of here saying that only rich 
people so how does Tiger accept that award when   he’s got to go back to the Tiger Woods Foundation 
where the whole point is hey let’s teach at-risk   kids golf and the joys of golf and the etiquette 
of golf and we’ll also get them an education   what’s he say to those kids what’s he say to first 
tee kids but no one ever brings up golfing and the   white around the White House like that’s that’s a 
big double standard but is it the elitism of golf   that Trump is so captivated by this why is he so 
captivated by this sport yes elitist loves being   better than you and that’s why better than you 
just in a hierarchal on every level he’s better   than you in every way well I know that I know me 
but this is what he loved about golf and I was   talking to his old business partner okay he got 
as soon as he realized he could play golf hey I   want to join a country club that’s where all the 
money is and I’m gonna show up and you can’t get   in the gates and then when they started like 
that like Wingfoot he can’t get a game anymore   joined Wingfoot can’t get a game because he cheats 
and no one’s gonna bet him he cheats so he left   Wingfoot and started his own Club and that’s why 
he started building his own clubs because I know   he couldn’t there’s two or three clubs he tried 
to get in in Los Angeles the wouldn’t let him   in well we wanted him around he tried he hinted 
about Augusta couldn’t get in there hey if you’re   not gonna let me in I’ll build my own courses and 
then he’s like do you realize this guy Trump Los   Angeles in the down by palos verdes right it’s a 
terrible course beautiful views but every hole is   awful and it’s a plate of sausages as we say where 
every hole goes like this he says it’s better than   Pebble Beach like what he said that a dozen times 
better than Pebble Beach he’s like Pebble Beach is   a toy compared to trump Los Angeles well no and 
absolutely effing no no way Trump Pebble Beach   is always 1 2 or 3 it’s my favorite course in the 
world meanwhile Trump Los Angeles isn’t even in   the top hundred courses in California but Trump 
doesn’t care he just lies and lies and lies and   in fact if you go down there and wearing a Pebble 
Beach shirt the staff is instructed to make you   take off the short and put on a Trump Los Angeles 
shirt it cannot play golf in a Pebble Beach shirt   like what are we living in crazy times yeah we 
are we sure are like who are you kidding yes yes   he is the king the Emperor he’s the king of crap 
he’s king crap twaddle okay yeah let’s go that   okay wondering this person’s wondering if this 
one is true I heard that Trump wanted to build   a seawall for a course in Scotland and wrote in 
the application that he needed the wall because   of global warming it’s in the book it is in the 
book it’s in the book so I’ve been saying Trump   does says one thing to the rest of us but when 
it comes to his real life and his golf courses   he lies his song for instance he said pulling 
us out of climate change it’s a Chinese hoax no   it isn’t but okay you’re pulling us out but it’s 
course he just left in Ireland he’s petitioning   to build the 2,000 foot seawall well it’s ten feet 
high because as it says in the application climate   change quote-unquote is causing rising sea levels 
quote-unquote that’s ruining our fairways and we   have the right to defend our fairways like well 
which is it Donald you know he remember when he   was running for president said I’m worth nine 
billion dollars or whatever he said well how’s   that he listed every one of his golf courses 
as being worth fifty million dollars now that’s   insane like I think only Pebble Beach I think I 
don’t know if anything any other course besides   Pebble Beach is worth maybe Cyprus fifty million 
dollars he says that like for instance he said   Trump Westchester is worth fifty million dollars 
right now he’s suing the Tax Board they’re saying   it’s only worth one point four yeah and the 
tax board’s assessing it at about worth about   twelve million so that’s a forty eight point six 
million dollar lie if you’re keeping track at home   unbeliev I mean just I know so what you know this 
is a good question it’s just golf imagine all the   other lies Joan exactly well we see it in the 
paper every day I think most people know he’s   a con artist why do they still like him what am 
i Jake Tapper I don’t know I don’t know why do   people tell me people friends of mine play golf 
with him I’m like why do you play golf with him   you saw me like the other day in LA or not the 
other day before I ran he hits it into the lake   on a course splash splash we all see the splat 
I don’t see the splash they didn’t my buddies   remembered a Super Mario Kart by the time they 
get there it’s on the fairway what the hell Donald   we’re playing a money game he’s like I don’t know 
it must have been the tide must have been the time   must have been the tide but I mean this is a guy 
that thinks windmills give you cancer right that’s   true I’m like if standing in front of blowing air 
gave you cancer no one would stand in front of you   yeah well you do have this story about Mike Tirico 
you know and he just any cheated Mike Tirico will   you tell the story and he paid up the bit it’s 
like why do people do that Mike Tirico one of   the nicest guys in the history of the world it’s 
announcer for NBC he’s playing this is before   Trump was president Trump and Jon Gruden Raiders 
coach o Las Vegas Raiders Raiders coach and then   tarik oh and another guy and Super Mario Kart 
Tirico hits this fantastic shot 230 yards up to   a blind green on a par 5 so Tirico is gonna have 
a putt for Eagle now I don’t know if Mike Tirico   has ever made a putt for Eagle it’s gonna be the 
greatest thing that’s ever happened to him no but   he’s so excited and he and the caddie just can’t 
wait to get up there but there’s only one guy in   a cart and that’s Trump and it’s gay time they get 
up there no ball they checked the hole no not in   there whether they find it in the bunker 40 yards 
left and they’re like did it hit a drone and they   checked the mark and it’s – Rico’s ball and they 
can’t believe it he leaves that one in there chop   sit out three putts makes a double bogey pays 
Trump 220 bucks of course Trump buys lunch he’s   very charming get back to the parking lot and the 
caddie says Trump kicked your ball into the bunker   I watched him do it so there’s a certain circle 
of hell reserved for people who not only I mean   I played with cheaters before not like this guy 
but okay you’re cheating but I’ve never heard of   someone making your score worse for twenty bucks 
against the nicest guy ever if I said what did you   say he’s like what can you say you know he’s the 
president and I mean he’s if he didn’t say that   it’s his course he’s buying he’s gonna buy you 
lunch he’s the kind of fun it kind of fun he’s   kind of fun in why ask James Patterson you know 
James Patterson there he’s played with him twice   now I said what’s it like why do you put up with 
it he’s like well you’re with the President and   you’re playing in three hours and you’re blowing 
through people and nobody’s putting out and you   have no idea what’s going on and they’re Secret 
Service and the missile and the Porta bomb and   it and you’re like resident and there’s chief and 
it’s over in three hours and he goes I don’t know   what it was it wasn’t golf and then here’s this 
is what I found out so a trump Washington he   plays Trump watched a lot but this is how it is in 
every course he finishes the round in three hours   there’s no putting out he says he won he takes 
the 20 bucks he brags about it then he sits at   a big round table in the grill and there was a 
Secret Service guy in every corner of the men’s   grill and there’s one Secret Service guy with the 
cook and one circuits the Secret Service guy with   the waiter any orders always 10 cheeseburgers 
10 orders of fries 10 cokes ice cream and then   anybody can come sit at this round table not just 
the guys who play with him okay and it’s so great   if you’re like a Chinese spy because all you got 
to do is be in there that day and you can and   you got your little thumb drive or whatever it 
is and and that’s where he got caught at Marea   Bedminster saying White House is an effing dump 
he had said it’s all right yeah and and so some   of the stuff I got was from stuff he said sitting 
around the table blabbering crazily but he is a   good host well those Burgers and Fries we see what 
he does for those teams who go and visit oh yeah   you know as many cold hamburgers yeah yeah wait 
a minute I blew out my knee and you’re giving me   cold Wendy’s yeah exactly okay another question if 
I was playing around with him how could I possibly   get under his skin oh let’s see you putt that 
one Donald no one ever says that to him his you   know you know the circle of friendship when you’re 
playing golf circle of friendship is like if it’s   inside like a two-foot radius we all go that 
next one’s good and just add once it’s called   a gimme right that next one’s a gimme pick it up 
and you just add one to your score well a circle   of friendship for himself is like the size of a 
Winnebago he doesn’t break in left or right but   I was talking to Mike Eruzione and like Mikey what 
was it like well he goes uh I play with him like   for 14 holes and I’m like mr. president you’re 
pretty good at taking him but you’re not too good   at giving him everyone else has to pot him but 
no I make that and he got caught on MSNBC once   did you see this he’s putting with Ernie Elle’s 
playing with and he misses a putt and it power   lips out have you ever seen a power lip and it’s 
like a for three-foot putt that goes six feet and   they’re playing the hole and he reeks it picks it 
up God knows did you see the thing that happened   at Ireland this week he’s on the 18th hole and 
usually and in America they keep anybody out with   a camera no one can film him but this somehow some 
locals got in he’s got he’s just the worst chipper   in the world he cannot chip he’s got a pretty good 
swing he hits it pretty far kind of long and wrong   irons aren’t bad terrible chipper we don’t know 
how he putts but he can’t chip and he’s terrible   out of bunkers cuz his caddies always kicking 
out a bunker he’s terrible out of any long lie   cuz they kick it out Pele you know so anyway he’s 
got this 20 yard chip up over a bunker chip gets   halfway there comes back to his feet chips back 
to his feet finally gets it on the crowd goes   good for you mister and he says he’s won 20 Club 
championships get the eff out he can’t chip you   ain’t winning anything if you follow basketball 
who do you think think carefully on this who do   you think is gonna win the championship and why 
you’re asking me with two games to go oh yeah whoa   think about your answer careful well yes exactly 
well I have this charity called nothing but nets   and we put Nets above kids in Africa because 
if they get bit by a mosquito before they’re   6 years old they’re probably gonna die and so 
I came up with this idea like sports fans we   love nets right you know cutting down s jump over 
nets New Jersey Nets your leaders and fish nets I   don’t know net we’re crazy about nets so is I if 
you’ve ever loved Nets send me 10 bucks that’s all   you needed to hang in net well we’re just past 65 
million dollar Oh Mike it’s unbelievable ten years   twelve years now it’s called nothing but nets dot 
net well one year Steph Curry came and hung nets   with us and unlike Steph I’m so glad you’re here 
it’s just so great he goes oh thanks I’m glad to   do it no because you’re tall and it’s there’s 
Steph Curry and I remember who yeah we played   this game against this it’s always a refugee camps 
so the refugee camp will have a little team and he   and I played against him and Steph was trying not 
to get hurt a hundred million dollar athlete and   it was very odd because they I don’t think they 
knew who he was yet yeah and he dunked in jeans   and no one said anything and I’m like you just 
freakin dunked you’re no taller than me and he   goes I know they have no idea how hard that was 
so I’m a huge Steph fan he’s done so much for us   even he came up with a shoe and donated all the 
profits to nothing but nets of course I think   I hope they win it’s gonna be hard though it is 
gonna be hard I mean this huge emotional letdown   after what they did in Game five I mean it’s good 
to hopefully then get up again but then I don’t   know and get behind cadiz but just win it for kids 
was that the most just sports can be so heartless   am i right Joan it is here’s a guy battles back 
wants to play he’s dancing into the hallway he’s   he’s hot as can be he’s like I’m back baby makes 
his first four shots twelve points in 11 minutes   snap and now not only not only is he out for 
the end of this titles games which he wanted   so desperately to play he’s not gonna be back next 
year that’s just so sad because it takes at least   a year for this that’s June of next year I know I 
know he’s such a great kid and well you know and   I was thinking about this you and I didn’t put it 
in my notes but there’s this great quote from you   that I think you included in your last column of 
life the life of Riley that you talked about why   Sports matters and I wanted to just in general 
ask you about that I mean you you know you wrote   two million words about sports you know since 
you were twenty this is all you wrote about him   why does it matter and why did it matter to you 
know your career writing about sports you know I   was raised I had a drunk dad he was a drunk he was 
never there and I was a wild kid and I remember I   got a job I was still in college I was 8 19 years 
old and I’ve never had any discipline at all and   I remember writing this kind of nasty thing in 
the local newspaper and I had a 40 hour week job   and this coach took me inside it was about I was 
covering the ladies basketball team this guy took   me the coach Sox walseth was his name and he took 
me in he said you you can’t just burn people like   that you got a long life these are real people 
with families and you’ve heard this man today and   as you should feel ashamed you you can’t go around 
doing this you’re gonna have a very short career   and I remember crying cry and this guy held me 
and now you’re started thinking about it as I got   older like I was kind of raised by these men I was 
raised by good men Dan Reeves Denver Broncos John   Wooden really helped me god I mean I can remember 
John Wooden we were gonna do a book remember John   Wooden his wife died and I would always go to his 
house for his birthday and I noticed one year that   he had this he still had all these love letters 
to his wife he wrote a love letter every month   and tied him up in a little bundle and he put him 
on the side of the bed he didn’t sleep on he was   still in love with no and it had been 15 years 
and so I said coach let’s write a book about how   to make love last and we’ll use these love letters 
and we’ll donate the money okay that’s great let’s   do that Rick and so come back when I’m back in 
one month and and I’ll and we’ll start talking   about it so I come back in one month and I rang 
the doorbell and his condo in Encino right and   no answer no answer and he always answered so I 
jumped the fence knocked on the door and he never   was late he never missed an appointment knock 
knock knock and I’m not gonna it’s been 15 minutes   finally he opened the door and he was crying 
he’s just crying like this coach wouldn’t and   he said it’s too soon because Rick it’s too soon 
I can’t do it and there it’s guys like that that   taught me about everything you know and and so why 
does them I’ll never forget in 911 when that when   that flight left Boston and was headed to here 
right four guys realize the plane they everybody   realized the plane was going to be of a suicide 
plane four men who’d been trained in sports came   up with a plan it was that rugby player who turned 
out to be gay it was a baseball player who played   college ball a college basketball player and 
a track star and they made a plan in deepest   of pressure and they executed this plan and they 
knew they were gonna die and those were the guys   that busted through with a with the drink cart 
and that plane was headed for the Pentagon all   right was headed for the Capitol building Capitol 
Billy my niece was working that day in the pen in   the Capitol building for senator lane of Illinois 
and those guys saved I think they probably saved   my niece’s life I don’t know but sports teaches 
just about teamwork you know and and and I don’t   forget there was this cross-country runner named 
Ben Coleman South Carolina and his teammates would   finish the three miles in 17 minutes and he would 
finish in 53 minutes and the problem was he had   cerebral palsy so his right side it couldn’t keep 
up with his left and in certain in cross-country   you got to run over hills and straight and he 
would fall and he’d cut up his face and his   whole right side was scarred and his mom begged 
him to quit and his coach begged him to quit and   Ben Coleman said I can’t quit and they said why he 
says I can’t quit on my team but he never figured   in a match so the teammates got tired of waiting 
for him so they go out and run the last mile and   a half they’d run a mile and a half out again 
and run it back with him but you can’t touch   a guy in cross country that’s against the rules 
so they would run at this incredibly slow pace   he’d fall they’d wait he’d get up run again fall 
and they did then the girls team started running   with him then the cheerleaders started running 
with him and his last meet of the year with six   teams in the meet all six teams ran with Ben 
Coleman while the parents waited in just tears   is this group of 200 kids didn’t matter who what 
mmm was about just being there for each other you   know and I mean it chokes me up remembering this 
story so I get this email from Kevin Costner the   actor I want you to know that was the I cried 
about that column and Ben Coleman’s my new hero   and I want you to know and tell him that I will 
pay for his education no matter how far he goes   he was in high school at the time and I’m like 
okay and Ben Coleman is now a doctor so like   we just stuck it to Kevin Costner’s Wow Wow did 
you write up that follow up yeah oh my so so you   know okay people say what does it matter like I go 
to these things and there’s always somebody in a   red hat what does it matter okay he cheats well 
it matters to me you know my dad as much as he   sobered up his last 25 years of life and every 
day he wore a yellow shirt and the reason wore   a yellow shirt was because Jack Nicklaus wore a 
yellow shirt in 86 when he won the Masters you   remember he came from out of nowhere I remember 
he hadn’t won in four years he could hardly see   the ball land and this incredible underdog if 
you can call Jack Nicholson underdog wins the   Masters the reason he wore a yellow shirt that day 
was because a kid who was dying of leukemia sent   him a note the week before mr. Nicholas you’re 
my hero would you wear a yellow shirt on Sunday   so I know you got this letter so he wore a yellow 
shirt he wins the Masters he’s my dad’s favorite   her and my dad knows the story so for the rest of 
his days from 86 until 2000 when he died he wore a   yellow shirt every day we had to keep buying him 
new shirts through their threadbare so we buried   him in the yellow shirt and we pad and two days 
ago we had the yellow sheet we all wear yellow   shirts so it matters to me it matters it mattered 
to my dad you don’t get to just screw up my sport   you don’t get to drive on greens you don’t get to 
just lie to people about no one says they won the   Riley round up when they were somewhere else you 
don’t get you don’t get to cheat at my sport go   ahead other reporters will take care of the taxes 
and the all this other line he’s doing but this   really pisses me off and that’s why I wrote the 
book because I mean I practically got blisters   I just had to write this book and I don’t know I 
think it’s I don’t know if it mattered to people   or not I hope it did but it’s a new way of looking 
at him it’s a it’s a Rorschach test for who he is   it’s so easy to cheat at this you just don’t and 
that I have no respect for him purely on the golf   thing warship test for America – I mean if you 
know all of this about him and you can still   pull that when we don’t pull levers anymore in the 
public but if you can still vote for him and you   know all of this so I mean you’re around the golf 
courses in the country clubs and you know I mean   obviously you don’t know who voted for him and who 
didn’t did do you have an insight after doing all   this reporting and talking to so many people who 
know he did all this and still play with him and   still are friends with him did it give you any 
kind of insight into the people you know why   America actually did put him in the White House 
I think they got sold a story and they needed to   know him before that I was wish I was could tell 
people but he’s full of it he’s not a billionaire   he’s not a good businessman he’s not a good golfer 
he’s not a good husband he’s if this is all bone   they think he’s some kind of remember when you 
were six years old and the guys scrooge mcduck   and he had his name on buildings and hundred 
dollars coming out of his socks and he was a   fella dove into a swimming pool full of gold coins 
and somehow I think Americans thought this is what   we were gonna have and we were all gonna be diving 
into swimming pools full of gold coins well it’s   it’s bull it’s bull and so I’ve had people say you 
know I voted for him and and I can put up with a   lot of things and I like his policies but I cannot 
stand a cheater and a lot of people say the same   thing my mom can’t stand him she voted for him but 
now she’s finding out what a cheater he is a golf   because the reason this rings true with people 
is because there’s no abortion attached to it   there’s not an immigration attached to it there’s 
not how much he cheated on his taxes or whatever   it’s just golf but it matters because how you do 
one thing mm-hmm is how you do everything and if   you can cheat at golf and cheat your friends and 
I keep thinking of Arnold Palmer he wouldn’t do   business with this guy hmm and I I I wouldn’t 
do business with him either and I hope people   don’t vote for me and it would it’s gonna kill 
my sales if he doesn’t win don’t give a damn oh   you know oh yeah I mean I want my peace of mind 
back yeah is there anything you like about this   guy you know that day when we play golf and he’s 
great copy and it was crazy and I couldn’t believe   what the hell it was just happened and it’s like 
you know he’s the tornado and you’re the trailer   it’s just and all of a sudden I was being spit 
out on the out of the limo on Fifth Avenue and   he rolls down the window there’s a lot of fun okay 
and I said so Don you want to do it again tomorrow   and he goes you know for most people one day of 
me isn’t if you’re listening Donald one term of   you is enough yeah thank you are we how’d we 
do are you okay you still have a couple more   minutes oh okay Oh Clinton okay Clinton all right 
so so the difference between Clinton sheets wait   Clinton sheets and the way Trump sheets is the 
difference between the guy that comes into the   bank and steals the pen versus the vault because 
Trump really wants to just win he doesn’t really   love golf he just wants to beat you Clinton loved 
golf and he never got to play so I play with him   as president and he was so into it and but he 
was cheating but in it he didn’t realize like   he had 24 clubs in his bag and the limits 14 
and he had this 75 year old caddy who was like   listing like this and so he hits the he swings 
like this he and he’s fun and he’s like off his   toes and the ball would go way right and so he’d 
play ostensibly he played the first ball and the   Secret Service would go to that ball but then he’d 
hit all these what we call billig ins this is not   a mulligan it’s the bill again and he’s not gonna 
play it but it is cheating because it’s two shots   per time you do that because it’s practice and 
so though and all these Secret Service guys and   Marines are with us and the card and the chief 
of protocol and SWAT guys are like what’s a SWAT   guy gonna do it yeah wrestle down a squirrel or 
something and so he’s hitting all these shots way   right and the poor cat he’s having to get these 
and come back and then get these and come back   and on the 8th hole the Caddy just got sick of it 
he goes stay off your toes ain’t no damn ballerina   I like the Secret Service better and this chief 
of protocol is like like even the squirrels are   like I might only crabs we were in if we were 
in Iran right now this caddies tongue would be   cut out right and then we’d go find his kids and 
cut those times out and then we’d wait for the   kids to have kids and their tongues to be cut out 
right like what’s gonna happen we’re all looking   the Clinton needles sorry my bad I’ll work on it 
the big difference well huge thank you to Riley   thank you and a reminder that that they’re gonna 
be copies of Rick’s book here that are you gonna   stick around and sign them five bucks five bucks 
to sign them I’m Joan Ryan and now this meeting   of the Commonwealth Club the place where you’re 
in the know is a jerk oh wow where’d you get that

For decades, a range of authors have tried to explain who Donald Trump is, what makes him tick, and, since he has become president, what drives his political decision-making. Legendary sportswriter Rick Reilly thinks one of the best ways to understand who the 45th president of the United States really is as a person is to study how he golfs, a sport Reilly reveres.

In his new book, Commander in Cheat: How Golf Explains Trump, Reilly takes readers on an on-the-ground and behind-the-scenes look at Trump’s ethics deficit on and off the course. Reilly has been with Trump on the fairway, the green and in the weeds and has seen firsthand how the president plays—and it’s not pretty. Based on his personal experiences and interviews with dozens of golf pros, amateurs, developers, partners, opponents and even caddies who have firsthand experience with Trump on the course, Reilly takes a deep and often hilarious look at how Trump shamelessly cheats at golf, lies about it, sues over it, bullies with it and profits off of it.

Reilly, in conversation with beloved Bay Area sportswriter Joan Ryan, will outline a new and amusing way to think about the current president, his administration and one of the country’s most popular sports.