Why The Cleveland RTZ Wedges are Game-Changers

Why does Legendary Club Designer Roger Cleveland think the new Cleveland RTZ Wedges are Game-Changers? Roger Cleveland, who helped revolutionize the design behind modern wedges with the iconic Cleveland Golf 588 Wedge, has returned to the company he founded, Cleveland Golf, after nearly 30 years as a consultant and joined the 2nd Swing Thoughts podcast to discuss Cleveland Golf’s newest wedge, the Cleveland RTZ, and how it’s design, and the new Z-Alloy material it’s made from has made these game-changers when it comes to golf wedges.

00:00 Introduction
00:30 Z-Alloy Material
03:00 Cleveland RTZ Wedge Grooves
04:15 Effects of Wedge Grooves
05:30 Cleveland RTZ Adapt Grind
07:55 Getting Fit For Wedges

The 2nd Swing Thoughts podcast, presented by 2nd Swing Golf, covers anything and everything in golf equipment and club fitting. The 2nd Swing Thoughts will feature experts in the golf industry sharing insights and latest trends in golf clubs and club fittings. 2nd Swing Thoughts will also cover the latest in professional golf.

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[Music] the Cleveland RTZ wedges. Um, you mentioned them a little bit earlier, how you’re really excited about them, new in 2025 now. So, um, I the first thing I wanted to ask about is the new material that you alluded to. So, there’s a lot of your similar, you know, the the design concepts, shaping, etc. that have made, you know, Cleveland wedges so successful over the years are still there, but there’s a new material. So, kind of give us the rundown on this new material we’re talking about. Well, I had nothing to do with this new material. Um, there’s a young man, a metallurgist at at Cleveland, uh, I’ll just say his first name is Boeing, like aerospace Boeing. and uh terrific young man and he kept so everybody uses a material called 8620. It’s a castable material that that uh uh the end result is it’s like a forging. It has a it’s a steel that will rust. Um, and it’s kind of a it’s not easy to cast, but it it turns out pretty well and and you can reproduce it in in quantity. So, and so most manufacturers and I started with that at Cleveland and others uh use that same material and they use it today. The the in its raw state, it rusts. It’s just like a forging. But uh Cleveland invented this this new material Z material and it’s in the family of this uh uh of this steel but it doesn’t rust in its raw raw state. And what that means is that it um when you cut a edge of a radius of a of a groove um if it’s raw, it it’ll rust eventually. And uh when that when it rusts, it actually will take that edge off and you think rust will enhance spin, but it actually doesn’t. It degrades the edge and it uh it won’t last as long. So, but this material doesn’t rust. So, there’s no degra degragation of that groove or it lasts longer. There is after a while you’ll wear it out, but uh it lasts a lot longer. So you you get the benefit of spin and your trajectory that you want launch angle and based upon the the extra spin that you get with a fresher groove. So it and it feels wonderful. It’s a very soft feel. So a lot of benefits. So yeah. So, it sounds like, you know, the these RTZ wedges, um, I’ve had the chance to hit them, and I obviously I completely agree with your thoughts on the the feel elements, but can we just maybe I kind of want to emphasize the importance of having fresh grooves and, you know, now that this new Zalloy material will keep the grooves fresher for longer, right? Because they’re going to resist that rust u tendency. So, can you maybe just speak and maybe it won’t last forever. Well, yeah. That’s a that maybe in the future that’ll be something that we can find, right? I was just talking to Kepka Brooks and and and these guys, they they know when their the trajectory, their launch angle changes when they practice. And this hasn’t changed. She says this has gone twice as long as he normally goes with a wedge, which is which is terrific for the tour for him because they don’t have to change. You get really comfortable with a certain wedge. Although the grinds, I mean, we don’t have to modify grinds for a lot of these guys. It just comes right off the that’s the way it comes and and they love it. So, but uh yeah, I think that the amateur would would benefit a lot by having fresh this groove last longer for sure. Yeah. So, and you were you were mentioning a little bit about what Brooks was seeing in his wedges when they started to wear. So, is there specific things that will change like is the launch angle, you know, increasing or decreasing? you know, well, he I mean, they’re they’re really uh specific when they hit hit shots. They want to hit a certain shot and they’re used to it. They know when they do that uh because they’re so proficient. And if they see a a launch angle that doesn’t make sense or a ball not stop, they’ll that’s when to change. and and they do it and they now he doesn’t know how long this is going to last but it’s at least double what the other wedge the other material was. So it could be even triple. So that that’s that’s great and it’s great for the amateur. My goodness. Oh yeah. Yeah. Again, longerl lasting wedges is only a benefit to the amateur player trying to, you know, obviously keep equipment in their bagel for a long time and and spend money on wedges a little less frequently. RTZ wedge will help you do that for We love to turn those wedges over, but there’s a lot of amateurs out there. Right. Right. Yeah. Exactly. Um, one thing I wanted to ask about too is on as a feature available on these RTZ wedges is the new grind. My so my understanding uh the adapt grind that is now available on the RTZ wedges uh there’s it’s kind of a a unique little addition to the lineup. I know uh Cleveland over the years has done a really great job of offering a ton of different bounce and grind options just available to order. Uh so can you talk to me now about this addition of the adapt grind and what is unique about it and what you’ve maybe seen in in testing it with uh either tour players or amateurs and what uh it the benefits really are of the adapt grind. Well, it’s a it’s a very unique uh sole geometry. it uh I think it’s it’s really uh good for uh people to have really good technique in firm conditions because it doesn’t there’s like two different bounce pads. There’s one initially that is like a chamfer and uh it’s it’s up there but it’s very very narrow. So it could be 17 18 degrees but it’s very narrow and that acts as a skid so you don’t dig. Then you have a pretty shallow uh second pad. I mean, not shallow, lower bounce second pad. And so it wants to skid. So it’s it’s uh in firm conditions, it’s incredible, especially when you want to open it up and do uh some fancy stuff around the green. It’s pretty cool. That’s uh you’re speaking my language there. And maybe to a fault sometimes. I like to really open that club face, get really fancy, and again, sometimes to a detriment uh to myself, but um I am that player that you’re talking to. Yeah, it’s fun to do that. It’s fun to, you know, challenge yourself and and pull that shot off when you when you can. It’s a kick. So, I I as we’re I mean, Roger, this has been awesome. First of all, um it’s been great to to speak with you, get your insights on, you know, obviously talking about the history of Cleveland. Um talking about, you know, the you know, what Bounce and Grind are and why it’s important and then obviously the new RTZ wedges. It’s been a lot of fun. I do want to just, you know, as we start to start to conclude here, I got a couple last things I wanted to ask you. The first one being for watchers and listeners here that, you know, I think you you we’ve alluded to it already, the players that um are are looking to improve their short game. They’re really trying to put some work in and improve their short game because that’s the one area where, you know, you might not be able to hit it as far as Brooks Kepka, but you can hit your wedges as far as Brooks Kepka can, right? You can hit those short shots, those low pitch shots, those putts and to refine that. So, what what what is the importance of getting fit for your wedges? How is that going to help players with their short game? There there’s different factors I think that need to be analyzed when you when you and it’s hard to do it yourself. So, you want to go to a pro like like yourselves and and that fit and do a lot of work like that. So, they have experience and and and uh they can fit you fairly quickly in in gapping and also based upon your technique, they can see that. So, it’s it’s it’s really critical to to take the time to do that. You do it with your set of irons, but even more critical in a set of wedges in my opinion to get the gapping correctly and get so you have confidence and take some lessons. Go practice and take a uh you know, get some get some thoughts of how to do it. It doesn’t it’s not like hitting a 300 yard drive. This is hitting a 30 yard shot. There’s there’s little keys that you could do and uh that you know a little practice with some information goes a long way and I think your your place is one of them to to get that. So I think it’s important. Yeah, it’s uh we we that’s that’s our number one um goal, right? Is to anybody that, you know, walks in the store or even connects with us, you know, on our website is not just getting them some golf clubs, but getting them fit golf clubs that will work for their swing. So, Heat. Heat. [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music]