One-on-One: Matt Jones

In the first episode of a new series of discussions with various figures from the world of Evertonia, Lyndon chats with Matt from The Blue Room Podcast and the Liverpool Echo about Euro 2024, the current state of Everton, the transfer dilemmas surrounding the likes of Branthwaite and Calvert-Lewin, and that dreaded and looming day when the Blues play their last ever game at Goodison Park.

[Music] [Applause] the walls St in the ceiling again I guess that’s why night [Music] dreaming hello Blues welcome to the first toffee web one-onone podcast a series where it’s just one guest from the world of eatonia chatting about everything and anything from their life as a blue their feelings about the state of the club right now and the immediate future and your opinions on the wider game as a whole for the very first episode I’m honored to have on Matt Jones who I’m sure needs no introduction but for anyone who does he’s co-owner and host over at arguably the biggest fan run Everton podcast to Blue Room and journalist writing about the tofes at the Liverpool Echo Matt welcome welcome finally to the tofy web podcast and thanks so much for greens and come on it’s amazing to be on yeah a lot of pressure to be the first person you think doing one of these podcasts as well like I I toally hate doing stuff like this as well but I couldn’t turn you down Lyndon could turn you down but it’s lovely to be here I’m honored and as I say it’s well overdue um I suppose in the beginning I wasn’t sure how much legs you know the tough podcast as a as a thing would have you know and I don’t think I honestly don’t think I felt worthy in the beginning plus I was very conscious about you know not stepping on new Lads toes over at the Blue Room and added to to all that I mean you’re a very busy man you know you’re churning out content you’re doing guest spots on National radio and TV and raising a little one at home yeah I’ve got a dog as well who needs a lot of attention a lot of walking um but yeah I love the fact that like the obviously I don’t listen to like every other fan podcast of every other football club but I do listen to to you guys I do listen to you know toffey TV obviously we’ve got the echo one in work as well and I think it’s I think everyone sort of brings their own little diverse different slant on things don’t they um so it doesn’t really get I mean at times I’m sure everybody listens to this no it can’t get a bit heavy with Everton can’t it but but certainly when things are going well I towards the back end of L you know I couldn’t get enough of listening to stuff about the Derby reading stuff about the Derby you know the way we finish that campaign so it’s um it’s good to have a lot of different uh Outlets to tap into and certainly toofy web’s podcast and like I said I’m glad it’s uh it’s really kicked on it’s always a great listen Cheers Cheers yeah actually the flip side’s also true I find that when we’re doing really really badly that sometimes just that catharsis and I think I think toffee we we’re a bit too measured but sometimes I go on the other ones where they’re just where you have people having a bit of a rant and you’re like yes yeah you know you kind of feel like people are getting it out but um yeah I was going to I was actually going to um get into this later on the show but seeing as you mentioned it and we we’ve always provided this sort of directory of links um to the various fan media tofe web and I’ve always been amazed at just the array of Everton related websites forums podcasts and now you know YouTube channel and what’s that about evertonians who haven’t had the benefit of you know years of success like some of these other clubs you know to to and and no sort of big Global audience like you know you know the Reds do you know how why are so many people dedicated to providing content to to Everton and and and consume it it’s really difficult to say isn’t it I mean I can I can only speak probably from from your own experience but yeah I just I just it sounds quite cliche but I just think something about the football club grip you doesn’t it I think certainly when you know when when I was younger it was that um going to the match with your mates going to all the away games with your mates talking about it um with your mates and and I think just just finding an outlet for that and finding like the people enjoy listening to that was was a bit of a thrill to begin with um and I think as I’ve sort of got older and gone to more matches and perspects have changed a little bit I think what’s what’s kind of hooked me about about doing it more is that um it’s sort of become more of a social thing you know as as you grow up and as as your life changes and as your your commitments become real commitments I suppose yeah like I’ve found that I’m sure you know you’re the same other people listen to this that you know the opportunities to to socialize with your friends and stuff and and do that kind of stuff is is shrinks a little bit you know if I if I said to my wife say Everton didn’t exist if I said to my wife every two weeks I’m going to go out on the ale for six hours in a day just with mates normally get on you know because there’s 90 minutes in amongst all that of 22 Lads on a football pitch kicking a football around it’s you know it’s fine it’s it’s part it’s part of your life and yeah I think that having that as kind of that that anchor to to your mates and to your family and to your social life I think is has made me cherish it more and I think that’s maybe want to do the stuff that we do more like you know the the podcasting the pub after the game you know doing that St it in the ground I’ll do sometimes you know for anyone who’s not listen to our instant reactions like I’ll always when we win anyway we get a good results I always try to do like a couple of minutes in the ground to start off with to try and give off that vicarious experience and it’s for people who who may not get to experience it so I think I think that’s that that’s that’s what I like about it really and that’s why I like to do it I think it’s it’s getting getting across that sort of the joy and the Despair and and those emotions we all kind of go through together um and and don’t you know some people don’t get to go through it as much so so yeah just just sort of cherishing the moment and I think underscoring all this obviously I’m sure we’ll get into it later is the fact that it is an emotional time for us all isn’t it because we leing goodon we’re going into a new ground and and just sort of documenting that in a way and sort of going through it with with people who you’ve known for for years and years and you cared about very much yeah I mean that’s kind of why I had the idea for this just a few months ago and obvious actually when I thought about it we things were a lot l a lot more Bleak and I felt you know there was I almost felt this this need to kind kind of reach out because obviously being I’m being located so far from Mery side and unable to sort of you know just meet friends down the pub you know people that I’ve met on the online toffee Community I just felt it’ be nice to chat informally about you know what’s going on with the club and as I say almost by way of catharus um I mean for for various reasons couldn’t do it till now but uh for the summer while we’re waiting for the new season to start felt like a good uh distraction in between games of the Euros uh speaking of which we’re recording between the France Belgium and the Portugal Slovenia around a 16 game games and obviously not even 24 hours after England saved themselves from Slaughter at the hands of the media with about a minute or so to go against Slovakia I mean let me ask you what is the problem with England it makes absolutely no sense to me that that it’s just like watching Everton down the years you know stubborn managerial team selections game management sideways backwards passing sitting back trying to defend Splender leads you know because this this England team is obviously stuffed with with players from the so-called big six that usually operate on a different level to us so you I’ve seen people make reference to this this ethos that kind of runs through St James through St George’s Park and it’s not just Southgate but this kind of wider entrenched mindset thing but what do you put it down to oh my God I feel like I need to steal myself to do Earnest England chat it’s it’s you know the the amount of times I’ve heard in the last week is oh we just need to play Bellingham deeper and foden as as the number 10 on on every every Outlet going um but I think that it’s just it’s just one of those situations is where there’s clearly players there being asked to play in a way they’re not used to at the clubs by a manager who is not as good as as the manager the club level um you know watch watching them has been really painful and you know I’m I’m not somebody at all who who cares about England in the slightest you know I like to see Jordan pford do well obviously I wanted to see Jared bro do well when he was in the squad um not too long ago as well and and that’s that’s kind of it but I’ve just found watching them so painful um and certainly yesterday like without want to get too deep on it but it just felt like the the front six Lads on the pitch just wanted to all be in the same little bit of of grass you know they all wanted to be in that kind of number 10 attack Midfield position you know mayum and rice go forward and from the deeper positions for their clubs you know foden and and Saka come off the flanks for their clubs Kane drops in for his Club Bellingham plays in that position it’s like everyone just kind of there and when you’ve got that like it can be fine youve technical players you can play in tight spaces and move the ball quickly and then just ping it out wide to the fullbacks but tripier whatever he gets it has got to cut inside and Walker has looked like a shadow himself hasn’t he at this tournament so yeah it feels like there’s loads of things but um they’ve got such a a great draw hav they you know Switzerland look like a good side but in the same breath you would have taken that before the tournament starts the Netherlands could be or austri could be the toughest team they play in this side of the draw so so yeah it s feels like one of them where when they come up against a really good side that they will get beat and the floors will get get ruthlessly exposed um but they might just clamber through to the final but it’s weird isn’t it International football because you look at it now and I think s’s going to go regardless I I couldn’t tell you in a million years who the next England manager is going to be like whether there’ll be someone really good or there’ll be some like seen Lee Carley’s name mentioned obviously he’s doing the under 21s at the moment isn’t he so very very strange situation they find themselves in now um but I sort to think they’ll win on Saturday and I S to think they’ll just clamber through the semi-final and somehow get to the final as well which will be be a little bit mad yeah um who is your pre- tournament pick to win it and has your opinion changed based on the game so far I think I said France on our on our our Blue Room one and certainly certainly not um we were just talking before wen’t we and sort of saying that you know France have been poor but you know they can just find the way to finals whereas England have been poor and they’re not quite quite there um you know that that team is packed full of of players that have that have done it before they’ve got a manager that that’s not going to panic you know watching bit to that game there Belgium had had a little flurry here and there but never felt like France were kind of out control of it and and theyve probably got the the best player in the world haven’t they as well he’s not really hit a stride yet in in mbapp you could say so um I still I still look at France and as much as i’ I’ve love watching Spain and been you know the Wingers are so joyous aren’t they to to to to um to see play it just feels like France could do what they’ve done tonight against Belgium against a team like that and just sit in and just just spring forward and get a goal from somewhere be it through mbappe be it through through someone like Griezmann um producing a bit of magic so I still think France will just have an edge um but it feels like their toughest games might be coming up in the next the next two matches as opposed to the final where they might meet England or or Netherlands or or Austria yeah it’s a that’s a tasty side of the draw isn’t it it should be so yeah 100% who did you go for I wasn’t really sure I mean you can’t really look Beyond France um you know I think probably if I’d sort of gone to my head I would have picked them but I if you look at Spain just the way that they play they’re just so they got so much talent in in those attacking areas and I mean I just watching England I thought how England how would England cope with with Spain I know niik Williams and and you know the other the other teenage um fella it’s yeah him yeah it’s so I was yeah I think I I agree with you that France just have that knowhow uh it’s a shame that actually it wouldn’t end up being a France Spain final cuz that would that would actually be really really fun but uh yeah I guess we’re waiting to see I’ve enjoyed it though I always enjoyed the EUR you know the euros and the World Cup I I never watched anything before because you know I don’t honestly don’t have enough time but the qualification games they bore me rigid but once it gets to the you know to the to the meat and drink of it it’s good there’s something special about a game like turkey vers Georgia at 2 o00 in the afternoon afternoon over here or really early in the morning for you over there um like you said like if that if that game was on on sky during the international break in normal circumstances you would you would just not you would not watch it you would not tune in at all but because it’s because it’s the tournament um because it’s the middle of the day it’s there’s something something really good I’ve quite enjoyed watching you know enjoy watching turkey when when they’ve been in it and they’ve got some good players you know Georgia were they going to do something extraord last night didn’t they for a little bit Spain Spain took over they they’ve been great to watch as well you know Austria have really shown what they’re about hav they and surprised a few people so it’s nice to get all these these little stories isn’t it as much as you know if someone had said someone said to me that the final was going to be Austria versus George you’d be you’d feel a little bit flat and you s have want these jugging all teams in a lot of stages brilliant final having seen them to today you know that would be brilliant maybe would you not be a little bit gutted though like if that was the final I suppose so but it would be I mean yeah they go at it though I feel like it’ be like an acceptable quarterfinal and then yeah I think you want the you kind of want the big stars don’t you a little bit and then might be sound a bit Jim rler for you um but you kind of you kind of want the big names and the big teams don’t you in the in the the final I’ll say as much as as much as those teams have been bundles of fun it would be a laugh though obviously Roger Armstrong did something very similar to this with his blue half podcast during the co lockdown I’m not going to rehash your your it’s an origin story but um suffice to say you were born into a very red family uh it’s really just just you and your dad that are Blues in your immediate family right yeah that’s right and now obviously we’ve got a I’ve got a daughter who I don’t know I might let her make her own decision to be honest I feel like inflicting ever on on somebody is you know I’ll never forget my dad for it know um so so yeah um my dad is is an aonian um my mom is red and my sister is a red and my dad’s family um all live in South Africa now a lot of them and they are all reds and M side all live in mer side and the vast majority of them are Reds as well um so yeah it’s do you know what like it’s it’s one of them where um like me Granddad doesn’t go anymore but he went he went to Liverpool for 60 years I think before he gave up his season tickets he gave his season tickets up just before um well when Co hit really just decided it was it was enough for him he’s in his 80s now like he went with my uncle and my cousin um so the Reds who who go the match a lot and they’ve been going for years so they proper it’s not quite as yeah it’s not quite as insufferable as you know some of the people sometimes you you get you get stuck into and you’re like you didn’t even know they were a Liverpool supporter um but they can all be dead bitter still H you know used to watch games with them all the time when I was growing up and um there’s many spots and many many things that you disagree with them about but um as much as those rivalries there it’s you know it’s it’s cliche about about this part of the world isn’t it but it is it is friendly in in the end and I think there is a lot more that that unites us than divides us but um yeah certainly growing up um just think about to some of the the mo me dard about Liverpool um yeah ABS I think I think M dad’s probably the most bitter um of the law in my family um obviously full on everon and used to go and watch us in the 80s when we won stuff and um you know whenever Liverpool beat us or something I think it uh I think it’s stung him quite a lot and he’s never quite Let It Go um but no it’s um like I said it’s just just whatever I inflict the the next generation of of Joneses now with with with all this um but I kind of said when when my daughter was born I was going to take a step back and and let her make her own decisions from from when it comes to football but I also wanted to take us to Goodson before right we moved right so on the the last so the day after the um sheff United game this season I’m sure people saw it everon did like a a stadium tour with the chance to go on the pitch afterwards as well so me m dad and Al um all all went to did the tour and then afterwards like went out on the pitch it was obviously the day after the Sheffield United game um there’s chunks of grass still up from the day before you know the grass was was green yeah yeah I’m sure anyone listens to this who who’s played a goodon in the past it’s usually it’s like two or three weeks after The Season’s finished the grass is like a bit cut up it’s to B Brown clearly not being treated as it would be during the season but the grass was like lovely and Lush um you could s of like still s of smell the essence of the game there like my dad was there I was there and we had my daughter there and like a little Everton kit I sort of thought yeah I’m going to end up I’m going to end up pushing this on a little bit I I just I just can’t resist it so but that was love but um but yeah um when she gets older she might decide she she doesn’t like football or she likes another team and and honestly you could play her if she did yeah I mean obviously I don’t live there um it might have be very different with my kids I haven’t been able to get them into it really I mean you know they would they would say they’re Everton fans but they they’re not fust at all really but uh i’ love it if she like Cricket like just I’d love to be like one of those dads who just sits out outside the Crick Clubhouse in the sun just just watching this leisurely lazy sport as opposed to going to watch football with high intensity parents on the sidelines are trying to get involved themselves um Cricket seems like a much more sedate way of life which I reckon in about 10 years which he’s old enough to be playing I’ll be I’ll be well more into it yeah yeah I mean just finally on on that Liverpool rivalry I was just from my perspective I it’s been so long now we’ve been so bad in Derbies for so long that I’ve kind of become a bit numb to it and now obviously with us having in the last few few years won anfield and now finally won at gison I almost feel like that edge is going to come back and the derby games are almost going to be we’re going to start dreading them more I think yeah like that’s they go a bit flat in there for a while um like I like I always used to pH me Grandad like the Liverpool supporter like after every Derby growing up like just to just to talk about it because as much as we didn’t win one they were largely quite competitive weren’t they you know even when we went to anfield and lost it would always be like a n or or 21 or you know they got 32 in there wasn’t there um and the teams for a bit would there’s not much between them so they always felt like quite interesting games to sort of chat about and and debrief really whereas like got to a point didn’t it where we had like five two two years in a row we had the four one at good it just sort of felt nothing um yeah I think even even the most recent one like we won a Goodson like I remember being out before around and talking to people and because we’d beaten forest and because they were going for the title and you know we were effectively saved by that point and and they were going for everything like the mood was so relaxed and um you know go going into that it so like so like disassociated from it because we haven’t beaten the MC Goodson for was it 14 years by that point yeah 14 years um and when it came about it was just almost like such a shock but but yeah it feels like there’s going to be Ed over the next few years doesn’t it obviously last one at Goodson first one at brownley Moore first one for their new manager Goodson and browny Moore as well you know there are there are story lines aren’t there going into it but um like you see you see hatred come out to people sometimes you on them don’t you like I’ve I’ve never been quite like that um I’ve always been a believer that sometimes you’ve got to you’ve got to take your medicon and eventually Karma will repay you like I always remember going to the anfield derby when Jordan pford that is a little meltdown and a Ry score and they agreed to meet me Grandad and me uncle and me C and were all reds at the game in in one of the pubs outside anfield afterwards yeah um and part of me was just like I’m just going to go over here but I thought no I’m going to go in I’m going to wait for them and um they just showed that goal on a loop for about half an hour and every time it bounced off the ball Bary were cheering um singing about little arms and all that and it just sort of thought just get through this just gone home take your medicine and one day one day might get um you might get some kind of some karmic revenge and it took five years to come we got there in the end yeah oh God yeah it’s been rough but hopefully I’m kind of hoping they have a bit of a um a bit of a downturn you know yeah you you want it like as much as you you kind of protect yourself around those games and you know say it doesn’t matter as much and you don’t care as much because the Gap is so big you know you want to feel nervous don’t you you want to feel tense in the ground you want to you know if we’re not if we’re not in this to win games like that and feel nervous about that against our our Rivals then you know what’s what’s it all about you know that that that pford goal was was the the goal from the pford mistake was so devastating because we were actually quite good in that game and probably deserve to to get something and and as much as walking away from it was was awful and seeing them all sing about if he for years afterwards was awful you’d rather that than a 4N or 52 loss your way you don’t you don’t feel anything um so yeah I think it’s it’s good that we’re we’re a bit more competitive in it certainly but um yeah long way too before we settled the scores haven’t we and you know God who knows what the last one of goodon is going to be like that could be a bit of a wild one yeah it could actually it could yeah when when you look back on your early years of fandom do you remember how you felt about our prospects of getting back to where we belong if if someone had sent to you round about the time you got your first season tickets say which I think was what round about 2006 you know yeah yeah that if we still wouldn’t have had a won hadn’t won another trophy getting on 20 years would you believe them maybe yeah like I don’t know it’s weird like looking back at that that Moy time now isn’t it because because I think when when he left in 2012 or 2013 20 2013 wasn’t it um when you left in 2013 I I was ready for it and was kind of embracing it and I think that the year the year before he actually left I remember you know speaking to people about it saying that maybe the time was right for for a change for us um and now you look back at it and you think my God we didn’t know how good we had it you know look at the the team we had and some of the players we had yeah um and and that that that team probably should have won something you know that team was good enough to win a League Cup you know I don’t regret the 2009 I think Cup Final too much because that Chelsea team was amazing when you look at the Players like the Midfield of you know balak scen um Lampard wasn’t it um absolutely incredible um but that that team was good enough to win a League Cup that team was good enough to win more Derby matches than it did um but I think when I first got my season TI because it was quite optimistic about it it felt like we were building steadily um I was always someone who was um maybe a bit suspicious of Bill KR and felt like the time was right from to move on um or be obviously never happen but it didn’t really seem to hinder us that much on the pitch maybe it felt like at the time it was hind was more than than it actually was um because we had a strong e for we had a really good manager um but he just couldn’t quite get that that final piece cie um you know if David Moes had Lukaku in his team I think Everton would have finished in the top four position and won something um but he just could never quite join up the dots fully um but I certainly want to thought we’ be in the position we’re in now where we’re getting points deductions we’re breaking Financial rules yeah you know maybe it’s not been as bad this summer as we thought but you know a few weeks ago I think we were all feeling like we’re going have to sell players to make ends meet and we potentially bring anyone in um that’s kind of been the saddest thing about it all to see you think back to God near 20 years ago now and and the solid foundations that that Moy have built that were in place um that’s kind of been completely eroded now hasn’t it Sheamus call side yeah um it’s it’s a shame but listen you know positive as if someone had said to me all that time ago Evon are going to have a new ground on the river Mery and it’s going to be fantastic then I want to believe them either like that that feels that felt at the time after you know what went on with the Kings dock what went on with Kirby the Everton playing football on the docks was was just never going to happen and we and we missed that opportunity so that is the one huge positive and the one huge surprise that that’s probably come about I’d say definitely yeah yeah I was I was going to ask you later on about you know where where your head and your heart are now with Everton because it I mean it’s changed just in the last few weeks as you said I mean as I said earlier just the amount of despondency that I had just in in in the spring and when the 777 thing was was going on and there was people talking about Administration and as as you said the potential to have to sell some of you know our really good players I it’s as low as I’ve felt about our prospects so where are you kind of at now does it feel like we’ve got a chance to reset now if this fredkin group thing goes through yeah it feels like we’ve got away of it doesn’t it with Triple 7 yeah like the more you hear about them and what’s going what’s going on now with the airline in Australia um that feels like it would not have been good for the football club and at the time it s felt like we were maybe had a bit of tunn of vision in the sense that it felt like and I don’t know if this was was the case but it was them or Administration like he said it felt like if they weren’t going to fund the Run of this football club then then nobody else would and may maybe that’s just me speaking from a naive position as someone who doesn’t know too much about the financial side of football and and all that kind of thing but that’s that’s kind of like the way we were headed and you look at the money they were they were putting into the football club and you know ever since to low them it was it was a little bit concerning um I think I think the lowest point for me actually was that do you know we got hit with the second charge yeah um because it just felt like we were never going to get out from under all this like it felt like we’ obviously got the first one which was awful and it was 10 points wasn’t it to begin with and we’d obviously put our appeal in and we waiting for the result of that and then before the even got the results of that appeal it was right there’s another one and it’s like this this isn’t just like a a one bad this is just one bad year where we’ve really messed up with our our accounts and player trading and and you know Co and the war in Ukraine has really impacted us this is this is a recurrent theme now and this is going to be something that we’re going to have to deal with and get acquainted with and know about for the next three four years and by all accounts next year is going to be tough for them as well and you still got that other case haven’t they with the Premier League which they’ve not settled on yet about the interest rates and all that so I think for me someone who who doesn’t find that side of football interesting at all and it’s just about the players and the match and what happens on the pitch the idea that oh my God I’m GNA have to talk about this on podcasts I’m GNA have to for this I’m GNA have to I’m gonna have to read you know you know we have we have um we have Patrick Ridge on our podcast sometimes he’s so good at that sort of stuff and like get the mind you tie of it and reads all the reports and I just don’t know how he don’t know how he does it like reading one page of those reports just is enough to to send me to sleep and I just don’t I just don’t like football for that and and going back to that second second charge was like ah this is going to be in out for a long time and it’s awful and it’s and from my point of view it’s not why I like all this and it’s not why I got into football so that that was the low point for me but I think I think it feels like we’re just maybe we’ve had a n now and hopefully are just starting to crawl our way out of it and the manager I think deserves loads of credit for that as well like I think after that Chelsea six0 game I would have said let’s shake hands at the end of the season and go our separate ways to be to be brutally honest I think it was I think that was that was a real low Point certainly with masiri looking on his stands and just thinking what was going on here um but the way in which he pulled it around was was fantastic um I think he’s been a great spokesperson for the football club a great leader he’s fronted up a times when nobody else has um so I think he deserves a lot of credit for for all that um and he’s sort of held it all together hasn’t he and I think by virtue of him holding of him holding it all together we are a Premier League team um people feel good about the team people quite like some of these players now as well which is not always easy when it comes to Everton I think it’s at times we we turn on them quite quickly don’t they but I think there’s there I think he’s been here long enough now to know who the good characters are and and and sort of focus on them and and if you’re not what did what did um was the phrase toosi said he said after the um the Chelsea game it was fit in or or get lost effectively yeah yeah it might have been a bit more expletive than that I don’t know but but he’s PR long enough to sort of implement that now and I think he deserves a lot of credit but I’m feeling I’m feeling better about things you know I was a little bit nervous on Sunday that we might get a rapport from somewhere being that Everton have agreed you know 50 million fee with United for br we and you sort of feeling like we’re we’re back in that that spiral again but seems like they’ve done smart business with dobin and godfre and and irab him and and hopefully we’re we’re on the upward trajectory um admittedly I think we were saying the same thing last year as well at times so you just never quite know Everton but it feels like there’s there’s a bit more of a a reality in the way in which they’re doing business now and and they know that if they do mess these things up then they’re going to get hit hard with punishment so you like to think the the lessons have been learned and and we’re gradually um starting to pull ourselves away from it all it it feels almost like a normal summer you know apart obviously apart from the apart from the branway thing that’s kind of been hanging around and we’ve had you know we’ve had players like Lukaku big stable assets that we’ve not wanted to lose but you know we probably would if the right offer came in but it I mean it’s to credit to the to the to the interim people in charge that is actually things seem to be kind of ticking along quite normally I we’ve got a fair amount of business done um but if United came in with 70 million for a br weight well should we do we take that or do we hold on just before answer that very quickly I think it’s it’s mad what what you said there about the the interim people who are in charge because I think ever got three people on the board at the moment haven’t they one of is Intero one’s mascher and the other L’s name up to it’s Jack Steepleton or something like that like he’s not even got a picture on the club website I know um so like like that the fact that that’s all board is is crazy after you know getting on towards a year now since it’s longer than a year isn’t it since those changes were made um BR weight I think I think 70 million I think I’d say that’s hard to turn down it’s not that I think he’s he’s a brilliant footballer um and and he weren’t going to do great things but I think that’s that’s a remarkable amount of money for for a player who’s had one really good season in the Premier League who was still got development to do um and I know this this there’s probably a lot of people of the mindset and you know this is absolutely Fair mind to have that you keep your best players no matter what but it feels like for everon um that would give us a great chance to to rebuild other areas of the squad and I think I think with dce in particular I think he’ll always should be able to find a way with semic capable Defenders to make us solid defensively whereas I think if you you you take some of that money you get 70 million pounds and you bring in somebody for for 20 who can who can be a good partner for tar kosi fit into a a sort of low block Tian pack system and you go and really improve the wide areas you get another midfielder you get another forward I think we we probably become a better team and again that that’s no slight on on BR we because I we’ve we’ve been here before with young center backs haven’t we you know we obviously had Stones who was amazing yeah um and has gone on to be one of one of England’s probably best ever although he’s not looked at the Euros as he but he is we looking at what he’s run um but we were here with Godfrey not too long ago we were here with hogate not too long ago where they had great years not to the same level as brownway admittedly but they tailed off quite quite Qui quickly after that so um I think you’ve got a sort of know when to sell and I think if 70 million came in and that that’ probably be like the The Benchmark for me I don’t think I’d sell for for less than that certain I think sort of the magic number for me then then I would be tempted to take it um but I’ve love watching him play and love the the way in which he’s developed um you know he’s he’s I think you see young players and I think this is the case of stones certainly when he came through you know he was so interested and looking good on the ball and playing out from the back and and doing all that kind of stuff that he never really quite got the the physical side of it until maybe a couple of years later whereas branway seems to have both doesn’t he you know he loves the battle sticking his head in but he can also get it down and play and I think to to have both of those facets to be the the ball playing Center back and be the non nonsense Center back or mesed into one is is very very rare so um he’s a wonderful player I’d love him to stay um but I think we still need to be realistic a little bit as well which is very boring I know about our situation and improving the squad and and finances because you know what would 70 million do for our accounts as well and and improving our our PSR position so so yeah reluctantly sell I might get load a grief for that but sorry no I don’t I mean I don’t think so I think I made the point on on on this podcast actually that you know it happens less and less these days but players are really one you know bad tackle away from an injury that could either end their careers as which as I said hardly happens anymore but could you know compromise them some players just never come back the same player and I think when you get up to 70 million as you said for a club in our position that that could you could do an awful lot with that with that amount of money so if you look at look at Godfrey like after his first season did anyone have any doubts that L lad was going to be brilliant for us for for years and years and then yeah has a b of of Co and he’s never he’s never recorded from it has he you know I think God he’s he’s still the the player on the header on the blueo website I think because we all loved him so much and we’ve not changed it since like he was so adored and everyone was was so convinced that you know he’s the he’s an Everton Center back he flies into tackles he wins the ball and and look look how it’s gone for him so I I don’t think I don’t think Brown will go that way adly I think he has got more about him um but yeah like he said I think clubs like Everton have got to be realistic and know that ultimately you are going to have to sell your best players at some point because teams at the top of the league are very alluring um it’s just how you you you replace them and and that’s what we’ve been pretty poor at isn’t it really is certainly the same question really about calv Leen I know you have you’ve obviously been a big fan of his for a long time yeah but the longer this this situation goes on where he’s not committing and he hasn’t signed a new contract I asked this question of of our fellows on the last podcast is he important enough to the way that we play that you risk losing him for free next year um it’s really difficult last it I I I I find it really hard to quite know where to to sit with dom like that that that sounds like I’m sitting on the fence but it’s it’s not it’s just like I I find it really hard to think like what value would you put on him just just just in general like right now in the situation because so many things I think you can factor into it’s like like the usual the usual like um what’s the word I’m looking for the usual like attributes that you you’d use to define a player value you will be like how good they are obviously is one are they injury prone how long have they got left on the contract how important are they to the team and their age and like all of them like just complicate car Le so much CU you can you said like he is really important to the way he play so that would say give him a great value but he’s already played football really over the last three years he’s been injury PR that brings it down again and he got his contract situation which which brings it down again but then you look at the end of last season and now well he’s playing which kind of brings it up again and so it’s like where where do you you settle um I think that was it 40 million Everton apparently wanted for him apparently so so if if if you get off of that I think again being realistic about our situation and having one year left on his contract um you do you do probably have to take that um and I think I think from what you can read between the lines he he probably wants to go as well um it seems like he’s he’s quite Keen to make the move happen although again you see reports saying he turned down an offer from Newcastle so it’s a weird one but but I I do think he would be hard to replace in in this window and and that might sound mad about a player who had was a 24 game go drought last season something along those lines um but I think that if you look at you’re going to build the if you’re going to build the perfect strike as a play up front for for shaan D what what do you want from them you want someone who’s who’s good in the air you want someone who can hold the ball up you want someone who can win free kicks and you want someone who can run the Channels cuz a lot of the time you are going to get it launched at your head at your chest yeah you’ve got to fight two or three Defenders off to to you know that’s that’s the reality we’re living in isn’t it you know you’re going to have to do all the all those dirty things and I think I think car Leen is quite good at all of them you know listen can he improve his finishing yeah should he score more goals yeah but I think it’s an outlet and someone who just helps relieve pressure there’s there’s probably not many other options out there in the Premier League certainly that they could do it as well as him you know we we could probably sign a better Striker who who would who was F are more skillful and would could maybe score more goals but would they be able to offer all those things which you think are dead important for the way in which they plays and and the answer is probably no so I think I think I think we’ve got to make sure that we get a good offer if we’re going to sell him if we get a reasonable offer I think we would sell him but in the same breath like you said like I I would be terrified going into the new season with Betto and chimti as our options 100% you you’d have to replace Cal was somebody else and I think the other thing as well is the if you look at Kevin falwell’s record of signing attacking players so you’d say mcneel’s been good to average to good as a sign him with 15 million rising to 20 he’s you know he’s fine isn’t he he’s just he’s just all right quite a lot yeah um but every other one I think has been a bit of a failure if being being honest you know mope one goal thanu one goal in the Premier League last season Betto did he get two or I he got two didn’t he or three yeah um chimi is obviously young and a little bit different but he still spend 13 million on him um so his his track record of bringing an attack and players is really bad and and needs to to improve and the idea of car Le going at the end of the window and then having to replace him is is a little bit scary um so yeah this is proba around Long longest way of me saying that I think I will be tempted to risk it for for another year with him um in an ideal world but as everything with ever what’s under what underscores all this is our finances a reporting still and we probably would wouldn’t be able to take that risk if if we got a reasonable offer you know from from from what the reports we’ve seeing it would indicate that Everton are probably quite willing to sell and it maybe it’s fallen down because he’s not a great personal terms with Newcastle um so maybe it’s one that’ll be Revisited later in the window but but I’ve Loved I’ve Loved Dom for us I think I think he’s been a brilliant Striker for us um I think he’s been a great example of of what happens when you do recruitment right I think he’s sort of made himself into a you know two or three different versions of a center forward down the years so if he was to go maybe there will be some ill will from some but but certainly not for me I think he’s been a really good player for us um and yeah I’d still hope he signs a new contract but I feel like he might go yeah I agree it almost feels like we we would need him a bit more than he would need us at this stage of his career given that he is 27 and I think he is sort of looking elsewhere all those things that that you said that would be involved with still playing for Everton you know the chasing the running the having you know balls fired at your your head and your chest uh I said on on the last The Last tofe Word podcast you know if you’re looking at your career at this point for Calon is that what you still want to keep doing because I actually think that I think actually I think Newcastle would have been a good move for him because I think as he showed under angelotti if you stick him in the right areas if you just keep him in those in that in in the between the post he will score goals I think he’s a he’s a better finisher uh than at times he shows because he always has to do the hard work I mean he’s he’s always been terrible one-on-one but those instinctive finishes Inside the Box he’s always been really good at that kind of thing and I just think um yeah he would be hard to replace but I think asking 40 million was kind of an indication that we wanted to keep him but if we got 25 I mean I think you’d seriously have to think about it yeah I think he’s he’s a good finisher when he doesn’t have to finish if that makes sense and does have to think about it yeah yeah like but not not even that like all like I that that season under angelotti like if like all his goals were like him just horizontal on the floor like sliding in yes like you know and it wasn’t like he was finishing it was like the he just was just putting himself in a position for the ball di like he’s really good at that CU he’s got a good turn of pace he’s obviously strong and he’s he’s gangly and his physique we can just get in front of Defenders and and you’re right when he had that service all the time he was just getting in front of the post or he was getting you know in the six-yard box and just just lying down effectively and letting the ball hit him and go in like it’s the same with his head as sometimes as well he just you know be there to to died in um whereas like when he’s actually got to kick the ball he’s he’s not as good a finisher if that makes sense yeah but but I think if listen I’m sure every Striker would say the same wouldn’t they you know if I’ve got if I’ve got the service of what do we have at that point we had Rodriguez richardis and dius sson yeah um you know that’s that’s that’s that’s a high class supply line um and I’m sure a lot of strikes to score a lot of goals but I think I think Dom was he did kind of find that sweet spot for a little bit of just being that that penalty box poacher I feel like we’ve had like four or five different versions of carv Le since he’s been at Everton he’s like he’s been like the the wi forward hasn’t he’s been the the right wing he’s been he’s been the poacher and now he’s now he’s sort of gone back to like now he’s like playing like he did under Sila when he was playing really well but not scoring loads of goals but like being a great outlet for us um so I think he’s adapted this game quite a lot down the years and I think he that’s probably something that’s gone a little bit under been a little bit overlooked and his a little bit underrated the B yeah well there’s loads more I could ask you loads more we could chat about but I know we need to get off so my final question goodison Park that last game are you prepared prepared for it how how you think you’re going to feel on that day no I’m I’m definitely not ready for it um I’m really scared about moving like I think we have said this before and I think it’s so if someone if someone said to me now you can stay at gooderson I think I probably would and I know we need I know we need to move yeah um and I know all the financial reasons and you the ground looks great and whenever I get the training past there I always have a a little look and seeing it seeing it develop is is wonderful but I think as just as a person in general like I’m I’m quite cautious like like sometimes like my wife will say like why don’t we move the Telly into that corner and move the sofa around here and I’m just like no just leave it it’s fine it’s fine as it is like let’s let’s just stay settled or you know and I think that’s kind of where I am with gooderson like I’m just I’m just a bit worried that like I I might walk into Bramley Moore on the first game we’ve got there and think like oh my God this is incredible like I I love it but I’m also worried I might walk in and just think this isn’t the same and it’s never it’s never going to be the same again like because goodon G like night that Derby you know the Crystal Palace game where you know saw saw you guys afterwards um and like obviously Knights which haven’t been relegation riddles you know I think I think back to like you know Fiorentina and and Duncan against United and Lukaku against Chelsea you know just there’s there’s nothing like it it’s so special and yeah and so marvelous and it’s it’s such a a great thing to have as a shared experience you know with with me Dad next to me and like all the people have got to know sit around me for so many years like there’s just something intangible I’m wonderful about that and that’s not that’s not going to be there at Ram anymore like it might be better but it’s not going to be goodon so I I am a little bit apprehensive about it um I’m sure it’ll be fine I’m sure like everything you hear about the stadium everything you see about the stadium looks great sounds great but I’m just like I said I’m I’m just very I think I’m quite cautious by nature and I think if if something’s good and going well like I would I would never actively go about myself to to change it yeah um so to have this this thing that’s kind of been in you know every evertonian life for for the for the whole life just just not there anymore it’s going to be it’s going to be weird it’s going to be it’s going to be going to be unsettling and I think one one of the things I’m not I’m not just using this as a plug by the way just I think it’s relevant to the the conversation one of the things I’m doing on the blue room over the next few weeks is speaking to supporters who have moved grounds in the last few years and trying to get a gauge on what it was like for them in their last season what it was like moving um into the new ground how did they find it etc etc just to kind of probably mentally prepare myself more than anything yeah for it um so yeah like I know we have to move but I don’t know I don’t know if I would but I think that just says more about me and my personality I’d rather just you know keep things calm keep things close to mest instead of potentially plunge into this great unknown which could be amazing but it it might not be be quite as good if if that makes sense yeah I don’t think you’re alone I’ve seen people say that oh it’s just a building it’s not just a building you know there’s this I mean there’s so much history just it’s just dripping in in Nostalgia and as you say it’s generations and generations and generations of evertonians have have known this place and visited this place and you know quite apart from the fact that some of the greatest players that’ve ever played the game have played there and it’s yeah it’s going to be hard hard to give up yeah it’s G to be it’s going to be really difficult like um it’s just stff like this season like everything’s going to be like a last something isn’t it yeah so we’re going to have like the last first game we’re going to have like the last derby we have the last Christmas game have the last game on the lights you know all all these these things that to back off and that’s that that’s going to be weird it’s I think um I think someone when the fixes came out said that we not gonna have a boxing day game of good ever again because because we’re away City year done that one’s already gone yeah stuff like that just just just wild and you know like said I think obviously people listening to this will know what goodon means and maybe people the everon bubble will will do that reductive it’s just a building and Bricks you know get over it um but it’s it’s going to be weird and like the last couple years I’ve tried to like look more at like the ground like I remember like on the last day of the of the Season against cheffield United like just thinking like this you know this could be the one of the last was Ultimate game wasn’t it but like obviously it’s the last game good of that season so that’s another sort of thing I remember thinking like like try and try and take some more of it in and like I looked up like above where I sit for the first time and like noticed what the was like like above me and the lower gladus and like like that that might sound like really boring like like so what so so what does it matter what the ceiling looks like but it’s just it’s just trying to like take all those little things in I think for for when we’re not there like I’m going to try and be conscious of doing that next season like so me and some of the ls who are go to the match we were going to try and go to Every Pub we’ve not been to around the ground before the game next season just to try and just to try and again just just soak as much of it in as as we possibly can before we move on um as you can tell I’m not I’m not coping well it ready another 10 months away yeah and I’m still still threaten about it but um but yeah I’m sure I’m sure we’ll move into the ground and it’ll all be all be great and it’ll it’ll Propel us into a a great New Era um but yeah it’s going to be it’s going to be weird the whole thing is going to be very very weird not seeing those same faces not not walking those same roads um but we’ve got to do it maybe just need to gr up you know I’m 34 years old time to grow up I don’t know I don’t think you can never grow out of nostalgia you know and wanting and sort of wanting to preserve things that that you know and love but uh I think even if it’s not immediate I think the new stadium will eventually become home it just it’s just a question of how long it takes I suppose yeah yeah but there’s like even like the little things like it’s like a goodon like when you so Bas is in the lower glass street but when you see like the the bottom corner of like towards the B like people stand up like you know you’re going to be stood up in a few minutes that’s your trigger to sorry in a few seconds that’s your trigger to get up and stand up like when you hear like chants like there’s people who I sit by and when you hear them singing or starting a chant because of who it is you know that it’s going to carry on and you can start doing it yourselves whereas if there somebody who’s new and it’s like a voice you don’t recognize like people might not start up the chance you s a hold back like all all those little things and those little Traditions that you don’t even realize are going to take a while to to build up again AR like like what so me and one of our mates like taking in turns of going down for a pain on like 42 minutes um each week so you know one of us go down wait for the other one like what what what minutes are we going to have to go down for for a p for like are we GNA have to like all these little things that are just like just baked into your match the experience now which you just take for granted and just there are going to be ripped up and going have to start again um and again like for some people they might just so what it’s fine you probably get a pain in in two minutes with the the space in the new ground but it’s just going to be it’s going to be weird sort of rearn and what it’s like to to go to the game again yeah what it’s all about those all those little things all those little rituals but uh 100% yeah all right well let’s let’s wrap it up there really enjoyed it Matt thanks again for doing this and being what I hope what I hope is the first of many uh oneto one chats um yeah absolutely thank thanks for having me on I’m looking forward to listening to to all the the follow-ups which will show be much more coherent than myself but U but no I really enjoyed it m thanks for asking yeah no no problem at all I’m sure most of our listeners again are familiar with the blue room but if you’re not a regular listener or Blu room extra subscriber you should give them a listen as I think there’s a lot of common ground with the way that we at toffey web and Matt and Dave approach uh covering Everton which is why we started a sort of loose partnership a few years back uh you can find them at the BL EFC on Twitter the BL fc. co.uk and Matt as always is a good follow at mattj football as for us at tofe web normal service shall no doubt resume in the next few days so stay tuned for the next installment from myself Paul Andy and Adam in the meantime all the best blues and up the tough for dreaming for dreaming night for dreaming night for dreaming [Applause]