Shane and Marty welcome PING Brand Ambassador Andrew Rice to the pod to discuss his mission to help people play better golf so they enjoy it more. They talk about the tools and technology that have changed his approach to teaching, common equipment mistakes that high-handicap players make, the importance of knowing your carry numbers, and the best ways to practice.
The guys from ping they’ve kind of shown me how much the equipment matters I just love that I can hit any shot I kind of want we’re going to be able to tell some fun stories about what goes on here to help golfers play better golf welcome
Back to the Ping Proving Grounds podcast I’m Shane BAC and that is Marty Json Marty we’re going to tackle a topic that I’m assuming people that listen to this podcast are going to be excited about today I mean who better to to chat about high handicap golf than us with Andrew
Rice absolutely Andrew’s been a uh Ambassador for us for a number of years now and I think um Shane what what comes back to me when I think of Andrew is when we were in The Archives with Rob Griffin our historian and he said that carsten solheim’s mission was to help
The average golfer well I think that really you know I think embodies Andrew and what he’s what he’s trying to do on the teaching and coaching side I couldn’t be more excited to talk to him about it guys thanks so much Andrew when you uh when you dive into the world of
High handicap golf I mean as somebody that is awful at instruction and really doesn’t have any idea of how to help any golfer in the world I try to help my buddies and it doesn’t go so well where do you start like what’s the first step
To someone that is struggling to break a 100 or struggling to break 90 I think for me you know I I regard the foundation of golf as the hitting of the golf ball I often say to people it’s not that the short game and putting doesn’t
Matter but if we’re getting the bll up and down and we’re hauling these 20 foot pods for uh doubles and triples it doesn’t make a whole big of a difference and so um it’s really ultimately about the hitting of the golf ball I like to look at the ball flat what’s the golf
Ball doing how far is it going how high is it flying uh how much is it curving and then back things up from there and say okay let’s talk I like to interview my students talk to them and say tell me what’s ailing what’s happening what’s
Going wrong and and uh how can I help you to start to have more joy out on the golf course that’s really what it’s got to be all about I think Andrew it’s going to be one of my first questions to you is what what brings you uh what kind
Of motivates you to teach golfers every day what brings you the most Joy or excitement when you wake up I mean I’ve never seen you lack excitement in enthusiasm when you’re interacting with other teachers and then your students what is that motivating factor for you party people are coming to me because
There’s invariably something wrong and they’re looking to um leisure time we all greatly value our Leisure Time and for most of us golf is a big part of that Leisure Time and we want to be able to go out there and take advantage of that opportunity we’ve got uh to be out
Enjoying the game and the better we play uh the more fun we have and so I really want to help people just like I said earlier um enjoy themselves have more joy when they’re out on the golf course and you guys both know it if you playing
Well it’s a lot more fun out there yeah I mean it’s just when I you know I think about when I’m struggling with my golf game like I’m currently in a bit of a funk with my golf game right now and you feel very lost like nothing really makes
A lot of sense and of course the scary part is then your brain gets in the way right now you’re thinking is it golf swing is it my alignment uh you know I mean am I hitting the right Club you start to question everything when you have people approach you for a first
Time I’m assuming that all of those characteristics are coming with them it’s like a lot of baggage right I mean they’ve got two or three bags they’re checking on the flight how do you a focus on bag number one which either is golf swing brain whatever the case may
Be and then what is a win from a first lesson or a first experience with somebody that comes your way is it just CL clearing the clouds like what is a victory for you off the bat one of the questions I ask all of my students when
I meet them for the first time Shane is what would you be happy with walking off this lesson te today and so they’re going to tell me straight away okay that gives me insight as to what’s ailing what they’re looking to achieve and I’ve learned over the years give them that do
Everything I can do to give them that and so um what would they like to achieve uh and then spend our time together working towards that if we’ve got extra time and we can get that done very quickly then we’re going to look at some other things that might add to this
Uh cherry on the top so to speak uh but I really want to help them achieve their objective it’s often times bull flight uh they want to hit it longer they want to hit it higher they want to hit it straighter they want to strike it better
And I’m GNA get them there and then do do what I can to provide them with the tools necessary so they can start to revisit that space more often Andrew how has um golf instruction changed since you first got into it I think you you
Kind of um I admired uh before we got to know each other uh seeing how you were an early adopter of trackman using it to do research projects quite frankly when it first came out it was a a fancy tool and the golf instruction they kind of out crowdsourced the uh you know
Research projects to golf instructors you latched onto that early uh and did some research with it how has uh Tools in technology trackman for example maybe some more contemporary tools changed your approach to teaching what has that kind of Journey or evolution been like for you Mary a lot of teachers will say
Well so and so Butch Harman was my mentor David lead better was my mentor and I certainly started teaching uh working for David lead better I would have to say that golf technology uh most importantly trackman was my mentor in that it taught me what causes the ball
To fly a certain way and what numbers to look for uh and I know this might sound a little technical but it really isn’t I I look at trackman as a a great feel machine a great piece of feel generating technology and so I used trackman early on to gain some insight
As to what causes the ball to make that great sound uh fly that beautiful little tight draw um what are the numbers that are affiliated with that and if I’ve got a student and they’re a long ways away from that we’re almost always trying to neutralize what they’re doing and work
Them back to a straighter bull flight a more appropriate trajectory uh and we don’t want anything too extreme and so trackman that teaching technology has been really integral for me as a teacher to teach me what really matters it’s not so much the look of the golf swing uh
It’s far more about the function of the golf swing and I I I I think of Jim furick and aan Darcy and some of those classic unique golf swings Kelvin Pete uh and those players could really make the ball sound great fly straight down towards their target uh and that’s
Ultimately what what we’re looking for it shouldn’t NE necessarily be about trying to get every go for to look like Adam Scott I want everyone’s different everybody’s unique you guys are both fantastic players I was thinking if there ever is a podcast open where they invite two players from each podcast I I
Know where I’m going to put my money you guys would be a pretty strong Squad there um but just to give people some insights as to how can you take your golf swing and start to use what you do to hit better shots it doesn’t have to
Be this revamp Vamp you don’t have to build this beautiful Adam Scott looking golf swing um it can be with what you have just perhaps a little change at address some bull position maybe even some equipment upgrades um to get that bull starting to obey what you’re trying
To get it to do yeah Andrew it’s a great point because the idea of an overhaul to the golf swing for an adult golfer you know somebody that’s got a job and they’ve got a day a weekly game they play and they’ve got kids they’ve got a
Family the idea of a complete overall which maybe some golfers need is very intimidated and quite frankly something most people are not going to be that interested in so you have to almost push that to the side and focus on very very small tweaks to help a golfer out and
That is not a very easy thing to do one thing I do find so interesting and Marty already mentioned it is attitude is such an important part of instruction I mean if you show up to the first te and you’re in a bad mood or you’re not
Having a great day or you don’t seem like you want to be there then the player’s not going to get adequate advice or at least what they feel like they’re paying to get and you seem like someone that brings the positivity you know brings kind of an upbeat
Personality to that first te and at the same time understands that not everybody showing up is down to change their entire golf swing like tiger did five times correct correct what you know tiger what tiger is we all know this amazing and uh he is is and the outlier
He is the outlier exactly right exactly right and and so people would love to have the ability to do what tiger has done on multiple occasions uh but that thing called life gets in the way and it’s family and it’s work and it’s I’ve only got so much time that I can
Dedicate towards golf um give me what you can so that I can fit that into my little window my little golf window I can go out and practice maybe even hit 15 balls before I go out to play what can I feel and think and maybe do
Something at home in front of the mirror to start to help me hit some better shots and it’s got it’s taking a long time but I I think I finally realized why you look at all those Golf Digest and golf.com top teacher lists and there’s not a lot of 25 year old
Teachers on the list uh and I realize why because it just takes a long time to be able to interpret and understand people not so much golf swings but just people and I’m gonna talk and I’m gonna ask my students questions um and hopefully that’s going to give me some
Insight as to who they are and what’s going to help them and how I can best help them Marty I was thinking about this in terms of paying and a lot of the technology that we’ve talked about on this podcast because something you’ve done such a great job with you know so
Many of the tools and Ai and things like that is to try to get people to feel comfortable making a change without having to go to the golf course and change it on the Range or on the golf course or spend those months maybe even introducing new equipment you know the
The the popularity of the seven wood or the Crossovers booming popularity over the last few years the technology that you’ve worked so hard on has made this easier for golfers to feel more comfortable just putting a new golf club in their bag yeah I mean I think that’s
A magical thing Shane when you can go out and let’s say a golfer’s never hit a seven wood they hear about it on the podcast they see tour players using it they go get one they can make their same swing uh with those characteristics and trades to it and start hitting good
Shots immediately I think that’s our own way of kind of bringing some immediate joy in into this game um Andrew on the topic of equipment what are some because you you see a lot of folks come through uh through your your your clinics and your schools that you do and you have
Seen we you’ve one of your biggest roles W with us as a brand ambassadors to represent the people and what are you seeing out there in terms of what does their bag look like what are some equipment mistakes they are making and then you know we can design into those
Gaps or better message those gaps fit those gaps what are some big mistakes you see common mistakes you see in the high handicapper everyday golfers golf bags right now Marty I must say over the last few years I think you guys have done an excellent job in getting longer
Irons out of golfer’s bags that’s a great thing uh they’ve been replaced with some nice hybrids that can help the bull get up in the air but I must say I I still still see three Woods I still see in my opinion too many three woods and the average uh golfer certainly male
Golfer out there female lady golfers most often do not need a three-wood uh but the average male almost feels like they need to be a man and they need to I need a three-wood you know give me a driver and a three-wood I’ll have some other things beyond that uh but far too
Many golfers still have three Woods in their bag and that’s a low Line Drive type bull fly um and I just see Gulf is getting so much more out of you mentioned the seven out of the five perhaps um something they can get up in the air and I still
See far too many golfers with that traditional 15 degree three wood that they’re trying to hit off the deck and really not having much joy with Shane um we have some very interesting data on that so Andrew brings up the three-wood we mined our Arcos data uh and found
That golfers who hit the ball they hit the their driver 250 yards hit the three-wood off the te 50% of the time and off the ground 50% of the time but Andrew if you hit your driver 200 yards you’re hitting your three-wood or your lowest lofted fairywood 80% of the
Time off the ground 20% off the te but if you drive it 300 you hit it 80% of the time off the te and 20% of the time off the ground so I think you know we we use that in fitting because if you’re a fast club and speed player you want to
Focus on your 3-wood more as a t-shot club you’re saying you’re seeing the everyday golfer hit you know one needing to play a three-wood and we know the data shows they need that thing getting off the ground very easily 80% of the time right yeah yeah I would uh if you
Can perhaps work some magic Marty and please uh build this amazing Fairway Wood Club you can even put a big giant three on the bottom so everyone feels good but just give it like a five or a seven wood L to shoot that thing up in
The air that would be awesome yeah I mean just the approach shots I mean you know you’re hitting shots into par fours and I mean you’re hitting these you know in theory hitting a fairway wood on a lot of par 3es I mean why not make that easier on yourself versus having to
Absolutely make the perfect swing with the three-wood for sure yeah and I think our sft Andrew is a a great option there you know by a standard law 16 degrees you can obviously tweak it up with the sleeve turns over a little bit easier uh but yeah we’ve been doing some things to
Make our fairwoods get up in the air a lot easier moving the center gravity lower Etc but I’m so glad you highlighted that um that three-wood is an area as we’ve seen recently last five years probably is a trend more folks being comfortable getting those long
Irons out of their back yeah and and I I really do think I think golfers are starting to be okay with particularly the men golfers that I I teach and they’re starting to be okay with something with more Loft as their primary Fairway W yeah uh but there’s
Still so many people out there who believe they’ve got to get a driver and a three-wood uh and that really isn’t the case Andrew you mentioned equipment and a big mistake that that High handicappers make in terms of their equipment what would you say is the number one thing you feel like high
Handicappers struggle with that is almost consistent throughout people that come to see you what’s the is it is it alignment is it not understanding their own distances what what do you feel like is the number one thing you almost see every single time you have a higher handicap come your way the universal
Thing I’m glad you asked this question Shane I think it’s a goodie uh the universal thing is how far do I hit the golf ball and I love you know I I’ll have someone on track man and they’ve hit five or six seven irons and I’ll go
So how far do you normally hit a seven iron and I’m looking at the real data and they go uh 165 and I know that I swing you know 10 to 15 miles hour faster than them and my carry with a seven R is like 164 and yet they hit it
165 and I’m going oh that’s weird because I I’ve just seen you carry your best one carried 138 uh and I think there’s it’s twofold uh number one is golfers uh seem to have latched onto how far they hit a 79 in a total capacity
What the what the land plus role is um and total is dependent on course conditions the golfer is responsible for the carry the golf course is responsible for the total and I’d love for golfers to start to get a better idea as to what the actual carry number is uh it might
Be a hard pill to swallow I know that uh but you will play better Golf and ultimately you’re listening to this because you might want to pick up a nugget or two to help you play better golf um find out what your carry numbers are first and then second let’s let’s
Get rid of the ego um let’s we know that back in 1991 you used to hit a seven iron a lot further uh but today is the day and we’re happy to be playing golf um if you can have an A a carry number that is accurate you cannot help but
Play better Golf and we all know this if if if golfers can start to hit more greens they simply have to score lower they have to have more fun out there oh Andrew I absolutely love that and that’s what the you know I think we he and when
I’ve played in tour events it’s all about that carry number like it you know where do you want that ball to pitch that’s absolutely what you can control I love that I think a couple tools out there for the listener that they can use one you can measure your your your
Actual Tendencies on course with a tool like Aros number one and that’s been really fun to Showcase Andrew we’ve seen some all the day data I’m sure you’ve seen it from your individual students or on the The Big Data of what percentage of the time golfers come up short on the
Golf course right and it with their irons it is a Marty do you have a number on it I mean do you have an idea of what the number is well it’s just kind of a heat map and I guess for The Listener out there may maybe picture the shape of
Like a peir you know where the pin is at the top and the rest of the heat map is is down there underneath that’s kind of what it looks like for everybody you know so um that’s a fun one and then number two shame with our gapping app
And co-pilot are folks who come in and get fit they this is kind of an unintended consequence of that tool is we give you a projected carry distance of all your clubs and and we have our folks can can come get fit and use that co-pilot and they get their carry
Distances and then you can go play golf and double check them but Andrew that’s a way we can really help that golfer without them having to go because it takes a long time to go do a full gapping and hit all your clubs and enough good shots we can kind of
Calculate that estimate that form has been super duper helpful that is massive and to me Marty that’s like the lwh hanging fruit you know that that makes my job as an instructor easier I’m helping my students save Strokes Without Really changing their golf swing at all it’s just let’s get a better
Understanding let’s get some good accurate information and you can straight away go out for the next round you play you can start to hit more greens save some Strokes yeah Andrew this is one of my biggest complaints about golfers in general is is you spend
So much of your life focused on the game of golf whether it be you know wanting to travel with your buddies and play golf trips or you’re grinding to get that handicap down yet you don’t really understand anything about your own golf game and this goes through a couple
Things we’ve talked about a equipment understanding what best is for you and I I it’s maddening running into people that aren’t getting fit routinely for golf equipment because again you’re investing so much your life I mean imagine a country club membership you know I mean what do you you’re you’re
These days you’re laying down at minimum $20,000 at maximum I don’t even know how much a million dollars for Country Club membership yet yet you’re you’re not you don’t totally understand what your bag is about and then your point about the actual carry numbers is not having a
Total grasp of how far you hit every single Club is just doing yourself a disservice right it’s like driving a car and the speedometer being off right you’re like I think I’m going 55 officer I don’t know you know like it doesn’t make a lot of sense it really does and
It’s easy stuff it it’s the problem is it’s not sexy it’s not appealing it’s not like oh I saw you know John Rams downswing and I want to get mine to look like that well John Ram’s done a lot of stuff to know how far his clubs go to
Get himself fitted to get himself in the right equipment um and then he gets up and hits the ball let’s start there um and we can really have a good head start on playing better golf Andre let’s go back to trackman a little bit and and The Listener of the Ping Proving Grounds
Podcast there there’s some techies out there so it’s okay to talk a little techie here what are some of the uh maybe uh Key Club delivery Andor ball metrics you really hone into you could pick maybe a seven iron Andrew or a driver you know are you looking at path
Face um you know horizontal swing plane and how how do you kind of manipulate those things what what uh you know how what numbers are you kind of using as your guideline for for those metrics you’re looking at Marty firstly I don’t really um I’m not overly concerned with
The shape of somebody’s shot as long as it’s appropriate as long as it’s not too much it’s not extreme uh if Fades work just as well as draws and I’m sorry to let everybody know that but that’s a fact um you don’t necessarily have to
Hit a draw in order to play good goal Fades can work just as well um I’m looking for something Club pathwise um three degrees out to in degrees into out uh when we’re hitting shots off the ground I’m looking for a mild downward strike anywhere between 1.5 and 5.0 is
Uh if we’re talking irons being struck off the ground um I’m going to an interesting thing is uh the dynamic Loft what is dynamic Loft it’s the loft of the face um at impact what does the golf ball experience the dynamic Loft and um a lot of uh golf coaches and golfers
Don’t really get and understand the role that those two need to play uh the two being Club speed and dynamic Loft and I I do believe we’ve got to match those up um the higher the speed the lower the dynamic LOF needs to be um I know that
Marty if you hit a Sr that launches at uh 20 degrees and I hit a 7R and that launches at 20° your Bull’s going to go significantly higher than mine because your Club speed ball speed is higher and ultimately if you launch a seven at 20°
Um that’s not a good thing for you because your ball’s going to go too high and it’s going to be out of control you know that um better than everybody really uh but for the golfer with that slower Club speed they need to launch the ball at 20 and so that’s something
That I’m going to look for um yeah club path attack angle Club speed but I really want to tie that club speed to an appropriate Dynamic L because that’s going to be that trajectory Factor um so many golfers that I teach uh will typically hit the ball too low um and if
I run into somebody who’s hitting it too high it’s just weak and ineffective well then we’re going to try to bring the LOF down uh but we are going to I I’m certainly going to try to marry their Club speed with that club to an appropriate Dynamic Loft because that
Gets the ball to a playable hype where it’s not overly high and gets out of control um and it gets up enough to where it can land and stop on a green Andrew I wanted to ask you about practice especially for high handicap golfers I mean so much of the time we
Hear just focus on 100 yards and in focus on pitching and chipping and putting what do you tell uh people that come your way about practice if they have an hour to practice how do you break that down for high handicap players Shane firstly I’m Overjoyed if
They have an hour that they can practice that’s a good start okay if you want to get better you simply have to practice you cannot listen to a podcast or watch an instructional video don’t tell them that Andrew yes they can they might unsubscribe this is where they’re
Getting the gold though they’ve got to get out there and go and practice uh firstly um I would say this I I I think um driver practice is under represented love that I’d like to see golfers hit a lot more drivers I’d like to see golfers um actually practice generating more
Speed um how do you do that I think at the end of your practice session Reserve anywhere from a dozen to 20 golf balls and you’re loose you’re ready to go and ideally if you’ve got some kind of feedback device helping you with Club speed or ball speed you’re going to get
Up there and try to rip those golf balls as hard as you can just to see what you can do there’s also another great teaching Aid that uh Marty might know about called the stack that’s fantastic um this is not meant to be a plug for
The stack by the way um I think it’s a fantastic tool and it’s invaluable in helping golfers um hit their golf ball closer to the green if you think about what golf is it’s what are we trying to do on irons we’re trying to get the right distance
So we can have our ball finish closer to the hole when we’re chipping pitching closer to the hole when we’re putting in the Hole uh the same goes for t-shots let’s practice our driver um so that a we can make it go a long way and B we
Can work towards keeping it in play I’d love to see goas spend more time practicing with their driver uh and then I don’t think um that block practice has received much of a good WP over the last few years and it is my opinion that every golfer needs to do some degree
Some amount of block practice uh and then work from block and what is block practice it’s a seven iron you’re working on your swing and you’re just hitting a bunch of seven irons all to the same Target you’re trying to get a feel for that motion that strike that
New change that you might be working on spend some time doing that but then I would love for you to go okay I need to take this and change this work this over into the golf course uh because so often golfers will say Andrew I’m good on the
Range I’m horrible on the course I know if you’re listening there’s a lot of people nodding their heads right now uh Marty and I are nodding our how can we possibly make well make it better we can never recreate the golf course on the Range but we can get closer and instead
Of just hitting 57 irons and going I think I got this today’s going to be a great day and you step on the first D and that thing’s in the water of the first tea um that’s because the manner in which he practiced had very little to
Do with what is required on the golf course and so spend a portion of your practice time hitting golf course style shots pick out a Target rotate clubs frequently try to hit to the sides of targets use your pre-shot routine uh and then I think now you’re practicing now
You’re preparing to go out and play ultimately better golf some block practice some random practice where you’re trying to mirror uh imitate what you’re doing out on the golf course and throw in a couple of speed shots at the end I think you’re in good shape I love
That Andrew I think that was um one of my biggest regrets in hindsight looking back on my own golf career is over practicing the 50 yard shot and under practicing my driver so I I love that idea Marty I mean the the saying we heard for years was drive for show and
Putt for dough and I always said well if you don’t drive it in play you’re putting for no dough right I mean you know you got to at least get it in play and I mean obviously we’ve seen how important the driver is in modern Golf
And the way modern equipment is made it is the most important Golf Club in your bag I’d say even over the putter for a lot of players especially players that struggle to get it off the tea because I I I was playing golf with a friend of
Mine in the media a few a few weeks ago and he he’s hitting his driver a lot better than I’d seen it a few months ago and he goes Shane I realize that if I can hit it 2:30 off the tea and play I can be a guest anywhere in the world you
Know I mean as if I can hit at 230 off the te and relatively straight I can be invited to any golf course in the world and not be embarrassed and it’s so true right like that that lends itself to positivity you feel better about yourself you’re getting the ball in play
You’re in the hole if you’re playing a match I mean the driver is so much more important than I think we used to give a credit for yeah I say this to a lot of my students um over the last 20 years Strokes gained the best statistical
Potter on the PGA tour has been a player by the name of Denny McCarthy and I I say this I think Denny would trade some of his putting dough for some of Rory’s driving D um you know Rory Rory’s got a lot of driving D in his bank account and uh
That’s I mean that’s a big reason why Rory is Rory not that Denny’s bad Denny’s Denny’s done a lovely job and he’s a fantastic putter but the old dry for show putt for D is not 100% True by any means Andrew so far we’ve talked a lot about ball striking which I think
You framed very well that’s kind of the foundation of golf but you have done a lot of tremendous work on short game short game technique helping us uh with our wedge designs evaluating our grinds uh friction spin generation you know using trackman is a is a kind of a
Research engine for short game I know um when you first did your wedge video was it called The Wedge project Andrew the wedge project yeah the wedge project almost 10 years ago 10 years ago we had a bunch of we got a lot of golf junkies Engineers around the office I remember
There right when it first came out they all bought it downloaded it they’re watching at their desks and still geeking out over it tell us a little bit about the wedge project what you uh kind of learned in that video and and what would you do over differently what what
Knowledge or Insight do you have about short game technique now that if you if you refilm that or re-edit it would you would you put in there Marty firstly the whole idea came to fruition because I wanted to understand why when we’re pitching especially when we start out
Pitching we can hit that let let’s let’s call it a 50 yard shot okay 40 to 50 yard shot why is it that sometimes we hit that shot and that bull comes out nice and low and it feels great on the face and it’s got tons of check on it
And then on the next swing we can strike it and it feels quite similar but the ball seems to fly twice as high it launches up it seems to plummet out of the sky hit and roll um and I wanted to better understand that and trackman being what it is uh was tremendously
Helpful in being able to gain some insights as have a lot of uh your friends the engineers at ping uh being tremendously helpful in helping me understand the as to like what makes it work why does that friction between the ball and the face works sometimes and
Not others and really ultimately it’s we get matter trapped between the face and the golf ball be it moisture be it grass that th those green dots on the face whenever you hit a pit shot or a chipshot and you look down and you see
That Green Dot on the face I promise you that golf ball flew higher than you intended it had less spin than you intended and most often it is not your fault you didn’t do anything wrong it’s just that matter got trapped between the face and the golf ball and um the moral
Of the story is this is clean your club uh play a nice fresh wedge uh and a urethane covered golf ball spend the little bit of extra money that you need to spend to get a quality golf ball keep the club clean play a nice fresh wedge
You’re going to hit more of those low Spinners uh but understand if you’re playing early in the morning and it’s dewy out and the ground is wet you’re going to launch the ball much higher than anticipated it’s going to spin significantly less than anticipated um that is unless you’re using a hydrob
Hydrophobic uh ping wedge which really does um once again not a plug it just happens to be uh it makes a tremendous difference in spin rate anytime um that coating that ping wedges have uh really displaces the water and the spin rates are actually quite amazingly consistent from wet conditions to dry conditions
Yeah yep go ahead gohe go ahead go ahead Marty I think that’s the big thing we’re trying to solve is just that that we want to provide the predictability to the golfer right in in that and that low launch High spin pit shot is quite fun
To hit but you nailed a lot of the uh the key ingredients and that’s where you have been super helpful um of of given this push and pull to us hey guys I’m seeing this why does this happen I’m seeing golf my golfers do this I’m seeing this in testing why does it
Happen that’s helped push us to answer those questions innovate on better Groove designs better finishes and things to help you in the ultimately the everyday golfer and golf Ball’s a big part of that no doubt about it I’m glad you brought that up um and being able to
Pull on all those levers to create create spin yeah uh play your best we we’re both on the same train helping golfers play their best Andrew I’m glad you mentioned the cleaning the face part of the wedge experience because uh when I was when I saw that on trackman one
Time you know what a wedge what how a wedge reacts when it’s totally clean versus even a couple of shots in yeah I mean it is it is mindblowing and I don’t think golfers quite understand how much they’re giving up when they don’t clean their clubs every single swing this goes
Back to put putting the time in right clean your clubs have new grips I mean these are things you can do at home to help yourself out we did uh I’ll never forget we did a a fairly significant wedge test a couple of years ago and we
Had players hit four shots with a wedge I’d hand them another wedge and they’d had another four shots and they they didn’t really ever clean the club between the four shots and at the end this was not the objective of the test but it just happened to be some
Information that we could pull out and I said let’s take a look at spin rates from shot one where they had a clean club uh to shot four and there was a 19% lowering of spin rate from shot one to shot four so you hit three shots your
Spin rate on average is going to be 20% less and that’s not a really dirty Club face by any means um I know people who haven’t cleaned their clubs in four months never mind four shots one of my favorite little uh little golf tools is H that little
Retractable I clip it on my belt lube now when I go when I go chip I’m pretty diligent now it takes a little bit of work but you got to go in there and and scrub that club face clean when you’re chipping because it’s not only spin
Andrew but you know as as uh as we know when the spin goes down the launch pops straight up with it yes yes and and we like that low launch because it’s almost like throwing darts you know we want that more direct approach because when
We can when we get the the face to grip the cover of the golf ball the ball launches lower it spins more and both of those factors provide us with the ability to have more control we can regulate where that ball lands and we can really stop that ball that much more
Precisely when we’ve got low launch lower launch higher spin Marty I have a question for you uh and dealing with kind of something you guys were chatting about a moment ago we’ve talked a lot about this on the podcast as well but I don’t think I’ve ever asked you this
Question you reach out to ambassadors at ping for information and for you know I mean feedback right from their players or you know anybody really that’s in your umbrella right how does the engineer team reach out to the ambassadors how does that conversation Go I mean are you
Sending out new clubs to Andrew new wedges to Andrew and saying let me know what you think like how does the back and forth work because it feels like such an an open dialogue at ping amongst everybody involved and I don’t think I’ve ever kind of got the answer on how
You might get something from Andrew vice versa yeah great question Shane I think we what’s fun about our ambassador team is they’re so diverse so we can go to Sasha McKenzie and he could run a academic boxed in highly stringent uh PhD level study in his biomechanics lab
Right and then we can go to Andrew we’ve done this with Andrew and we’ll send him a couple different wedges with different grinds on them he’ll run a test with high handicappers or ladies you know lady golfers Andrew we’ve done some work on you know different uh weights uh
Shaft weights total weights designed and that’s more of uh you know with the with the real visceral performance uh type of hat on so we’ve done some very detailed formal player tests basically that Andrew has conducted for us right Andrew yeah which has been super fun we have Stan Utley on
Our team he T he might be working with um you know Elite or average golfers on short game specifically short game specifically putting how does the golfer respond to it so what’s been fun about our team uh Shane to answer your questions they’re all so diverse they all have unique strengths and uh
Andrew’s been a major part of doing some fun research with us when we’ve reached out on on Wedge studies and some ladies uh uh projects and Andrew I think one thing I want to talk to you about here as a followup to that would be kind of
Teach Ing and coaching both ladies and juniors and how that varies from you know your everyday High handicap male golfer Marty I’m gonna start with Juniors I I I think the there’s there’s one young guy 13 years old he’s quite a small guy that I teach that comes to mind and all he
Wants to do is hit it longer and he wants to get long and he’s like and every week we I created this thing where we have a six bow speed Challenge and so we measure we track his ball speed from week to week when he comes out and it’s keeping him
Patient and he’s he’s only growing at this speed and I’m like don’t worry trust me in three years time you’re going to be driving it over 300 and it’s hard for him to buy into it he wants to get good he wants to get long now and
The Big Challenge I try to paint uh the big picture I try to paint for my juniors is we’ve got time let’s look at the future this is where we would like to be uh in three years in six years in 10 years and oftentimes it’s a case of
Do you want to be the best 13-year-old golfer in the world or the best 23-year-old golfer in the world because have you ever seen a picture of those really big checks those big checks you don’t get those 1y old that’s right that’s right that’s right you make a lot
More money at 23 exactly you’d much rather be the best 23-year-old golfer so let’s be patient let’s stay the course let’s keep working uh we’re going to work on a lot of good things over the years we’re going to have some good days and some bad days uh but it’s just
Really keeping their mindset patient and not getting too up or down based on how the last round went um for lady golfers I I I teach a lot of ladies thankfully um and oftentimes the ladies that I encounter are fairly new to the game they haven’t played a lot of golf and
They would like to feel comfortable yeah uh they don’t want to be overwhelmed with uh five wedges in their bag and the 3579 Woods that uh oftentimes their husbands have put in their golf bag um and they want to know okay off the off
The tea this is how high I te it and I got to swing hard okay for my second shot this is going to be my club of choice and I go okay these are the two I want you to work between um one is a seven wood and one is five hybrid you
Can fall in love with either one but I want you to fall in love with one of them and that’s often times going to be your second shot club and then from there we’re GNA go okay eight iron nine iron wedge and a sand wedge you’re gonna
Pick one of those and we’re going to play those next to get the ball on the Green Let’s get good at that shot let’s pitch the ball to the middle of the green and then two putts and and go from there and really start to have some fun
Um I try to downplay the importance of score score card comp eating let’s go out have a good have a good time try to hit some shots that get up in the air and uh and just enjoy it first because once a junior can learn to love the game
Once any beginner can learn to love the game they’ll come back to learn it later um let’s get early to the game golfers let’s get them to love it first and get them to have a great time and hit some fun shots uh my goal in every beginner
Lesson is I want at the end of the lesson we’ve got this bull t up really high they’ve got driver in hand and they’re swinging hard and I want them to hit a shot that makes them go wow that was amazing I can’t wait to do that
Again Andrew can you tell us a little bit about Coach Camp how it how it got off the ground uh thanks for asking coach Camp is something uh my wife and I have put together we’ve been doing it for uh coming up on coming up on eight
Years now uh I actually got invited to be a presenter at a fellow golf coaches event where he was doing a day and he brought some other coach is in and I said to him I said this is fantastic i’ I’d love to with your permission have
The ability to be able to recreate this just on a little bigger scale and uh that’s where I got the idea and GE it’s it’s really been uh so much fun over the year Shane and we’ve had just about every coach uh certainly in the top 20
Has presented at at coach Camp we’ve had some great stories some great experiences um ranging from Gigi flinging hats off the stage to anyone who was willing to catch one um we to to Joe mayo pontificating and holding court at night and uh Sean Foley presenting on
Bruce Lee and uh just some things that come to mind but um it’s been a um a very fun event but also tremendously educational I know I’ve learned a tremendous amount and um the coaches that I invite are typically the ones that I would like to learn from and I
Feel I’ve like I’ve got a lot to learn but uh um it’s getting harder and harder to find fresh new coaches I would always I’d love to find uh somebody who’s a coach but outside of the sport of golf I think there’s a tremendous amount we can
Learn there um in so many different ways uh be it the mental side or the physical side or just the coaching of young people um so many different avenues that we can look at but uh it’s been a great journey so far Andrew I’ve I’ve love
Going to coach Camp a couple times I’ve been and our team’s been going there I just love everything you’ve done to help in the golf coaching Community all wants to help each other right everyone can have their own identity their own expertise their own philosophies but I just love that you’ve brought everyone
Together with Coach Kamp to share share those ideas I know certainly we come away from there uh often with more questions unanswered then answered and that is a beautiful thing kind of keeps us going on on this journey to to to try to investigate uh all the little mysteries
Of of this of this game whether it’s design coaching fitting performance golf science you name it and Marty certainly thank you to you and uh and everybody at ping you guys have been a big supporter of coach gamp and certainly been a big reason why it’s continued to happen each
And every year so so thank you for your support and Paul and Eric and Chris and yourself and uh everyone comes out and and shares some amazing information it’s very cool to see actually over the last few years how uh Paul and Eric uh Paul Dr Paul wood Dr Eric Henrickson who are
Engineers here at ping and how their information has really improved and they’ve gotten to the point now where I know um certain people who come to coach camp they’re not really interested in listening to the coaches they want to listen to the phds and and learn some
New nuggets what those guys are going to be sharing so it’s great to see as long as somebody’s learning right uh Andrew listen we could talk to you for another hour and a half I think and we were definitely going to have you on again because I think this is just scratching
The surface on all that you do for golf and all that you do for Ping so we appreciate the time thanks so much for the insight and uh let’s schedule another uh POD at some point because we’d love to get you back on let’s do it thanks jent I appreciate the opportunity
Cheers that’s Andrew rice this is the Ping Proving Grounds podcast
