We kick off this week’s show talking turkey with Stacy Skaggs of Linwood Taxidermy.
Then Seth Herbst from the Michigan DNR has details on the new commercial guiding license.
Hour two features Lance Valentine from Teachin Fishin. This time the conversation centers on the technique for jigging river walleye.
Justin Tomei of MUCC is up next. Justin has more info on that commercial guiding license. He also talks about their annual convention.
Deer management is the topic in Hour 3 this week as I talk with retired Michigan DNR wildlife biologist John Ozoga. John says the UP deer herd is in trouble and there’s no short term solution to the problem.
The show wraps up with Chef Dixie Dave Minar. There’s no recipe this week because we talks about the upcoming Wednesday Night Live at the LumberJack Restaurant where Dave will be our guest chef.
Time now for Michigan’s number one outdoor radio show Mike Avery’s outdoor magazine Mike Avery has covered the outdoors in Michigan for more than four decades and that tradition continues today outdoor magazine is brought to you by J Sporting Goods the Ider Insurance Group angler Quest pontoons the forward Corporation Primal outdoors security
Credit union offshore tackle Garber Chevrolet Rapid River Knife Works and by Michigan brand meets now here’s Mike Avery well thank you Ken Hunter for that introduction and welcome to another edition of the outdoor magazine radio show right here on the outdoor magazine radio network on more than 30 radio
Stations across the great state of Michigan and so glad to have you along with us how was your week did you get a chance to get out and do anything fun anything in the outdoors why the weather roller coaster continues doesn’t it I mean you know we
Always expect that this time of year but it’s been an interesting winter season I was talking to a guy the other day about and you know obviously I I I agree with this I think any anybody’s going to have to agree with this this year that the folks who rely on
Wintertime for their business or at least a significant part of their business they’re hurting this year there just wasn’t much of a winter if you needed snow if you needed ice it was a disappointing year so My my heart goes out to those folks because at
This point you know it’s it’s just not going to happen oh so what have I been up to you know this last week for me has been pretty much consumed with our Trinity monitor Wild game dinner in auction which was last weekend at this point and it was
Another wonderful event you know this is something our our church does as a fundraiser for the church in school this is the seventh year we’ve been doing it now and it just continues to grow I’m I’m I’m I’m absolutely convinced the event is has been blessed by
God and we just have a great time and once again this year uh um it was just wonderful you know so many of my friends the people that I work with and the people who are my friends stepped up to support this event I’m not even going to
Go through the list right now because I’ll leave somebody out but not only did they support in in donating services and product but also in bidding on items you know I every year I have people who who bid on my fishing trips who would who would be able to fish with me
For free and yet they bid a bunch of money to go fishing just to help out the cost so it’s that type of an event uh I just want to thank everybody who is involved the all the volunteers at Trinity who put this thing on um you the
People who showed up the people who supported us we do appreciate it so very very much thank you now because I’ve been uh pretty much consumed with the Trinity event our our next event is kind of snuck up on me and here’s what it is another Wednesday Night Live at the
Lumberjack restaurant in West Branch coming up Wednesday the 20th if you’d like to join us love to have you there call for reservations 989 343 892 989 343 892 if nobody answers let the phone ring until it picks up leave a message give them your name how many in your party
And a phone number so they can call you back now this event is free we don’t charge anything for this um but I would expect you know you you’d you know buy a dinner or something from The Lumberjack restaurant while you’re there would appreciate that very
Much I’m not sure exactly who’s going to be joining us at this event I put out um um invitations to uh several people several of my advertising partners and and we’ll see uh who’ll be joining us but I’d love to have you there that’s uh Wednesday night March 20th at The
Lumberjack restaurant the forward Corporation Lumberjack restaurant in westbranch 989 343 0892 for for a reservation our live event starts at 7:00 as all of the Wednesday night lives do I would encourage you to get there about 5 5:30 so you have a chance to eat and get
Settled in before the fun starts uh speaking of fun in West Branch this is a a ways off but I want you to put this in your calendar if you are interested the first annual Avery Outdoors uh golf outing will be at the West Branch Country Club
Monday July 29th now it is too early to start signing up for this if you want to be involved as a sponsor a whole sponsor or something you can send me an email Mike atmik a outdoors.com Mike atmik a outdoors.com again too early to sign up for that
Event but I’m just asking you to put it on your radar to put it on your calendar if you’re interested Monday July 29th at the uh West Branch Country Club obviously in West Branch I was talking about the the weather roller coaster you know the one day last week when it was so
Warm my neighbor an unnamed neighbor fired up his lawnmower I thought okay that’s just that’s too much that’s just going over the top okay we don’t need to run lawnmowers in early March uh speaking of this time of year it is time to get your new fishing
License now your current license is good through the end of the month but you can buy your new license now if you want uh what is it 26 bucks for an all species resident fishing license and yet people gripe about the price what can
You do for 20 I could get mine for 11 if I wanted as a senior I’m not a big fan of senior prices I I don’t think just because somebody has reached a certain age that they should be gifted a discounted price on something over other
Hardworking people I I don’t I don’t buy into that concept I don’t I don’t like senior discounts I don’t like senior con senior breaks on prices if a service or a good is worth x amount of money to a 50-year-old or a 30 year old why is it
Not worth the same amount to a 65 or 70y old it should be anyway $26 for an all species fishing license for the entire year what can you do for a year and have that much fun for that much money there’s nothing you can’t now I realize
If you buy uh you know three four five baits stick baits you’re going to spend more than 26 bucks so yeah the amount of money you have in your fishing is a lot more than that $26 license so don’t gripe about the price of the $26 license fish any species any water all
Year for $26 speaking of licenses there is a new license in effect here in Michigan for hunting and fishing guides this just went into effect it is $150 for a three-year license a lot of people don’t like this they think it’s another money grab by
The DNR now coming up here later in the hour we’re going to talk about this a couple of times first with Seth herps of the DNR and then later with Justin to of muc mucc was one of the groups that was pushing for this uh if you are a
Licensed Charter Captain you are exempt from this because you’re already licensed and already paying um the hunting and fishing guy license is not nearly as involved as a coast guard Charter captain’s license or a captain’s license I don’t know I think that it’s not ridiculous to expect that if somebody is
Taking people out hunting or fishing for money that they would have a certain amount of proficiency and uh accountability and for the people who want to do that and have those qualifications you know 50 bucks a year if you’re doing it professionally I I don’t think
That’s I don’t think that’s too much I don’t think that’s going over the top if you’re going to take take people out hunting or fishing on Inland lakes and rivers I think it’s kind of cool that you would want to be licensed to set yourself apart from the others who are
Just doing it for fun but that’s just me did you see the fredbear celebrations online they had a big uh fredbear birthday celebration last week in gring uh I posted in honor of Fred’s birthday I found some of my old pictures and I posted them it’s always always nice to
See those picture of me and Fred a picture of a young darkhaired thick head of hair Avery sitting next to Fred Bear and a bunch of pictures I took while I was with him it was very very cool as I as I look at my career the highlights of my 50-year
Career now almost 50 now 45 years um if that wasn’t number one it was certainly top three to get a chance to to meet Fred Bear and sit next to him and talk with him and interview him boy that was that was right at the top
Certainly right at the top okay I did see something pretty disturbing this week maybe you saw it as well this is a letter to the editor in the Detroit Free Press the headline says Michigan coyote hunts are gruesome killing contests now this is not a news article
This is a letter to the editor but I I want to read an excerpt from it just to remind you of what we’re dealing with a lady named Lauren wrote to the Free Press and they published this Michigan’s coyotes are already being ruthlessly hounded baited snared trapped lured by electronic devices that mimic
Sounds of pups in distress and gunned down in gruesome killing contest throughout much of the year now this is in reference to the the plan to U stop our year round coyote hunting season take it back to what eight or nine months or something like this I read you this just to remind
You that there’s a certain and significant percentage of our population who looks at what we’re doing in a different light from how you and I look at it so as a result we need to continue continue to portray ourselves as the positive and responsible stewards of the resource that we
Are a lot of people look at us and think we’re bloodthirsty Killers we are not we are stewards of wildlife but we need to continue to portray ourselves that way in person online on social media just remember everything you post out there can come back to hurt us coming up on
This week’s outdoor magazine radio show after the break Stacy Skaggs A guy I met at our Trinity dinner talking about getting ready for the turkey season then Seth Herpst actually I’m moving up the ask Avery segment this week I thought I’m not locked into that second hour so
I’m putting it in the first hour ask Avery with Seth herps of the DNR regarding that new fishing and hunting guide license at our second hour Lance Valentine Justin to and at our third hour and in our third hour John aoga on deer management in Michigan all that
Plus Dixie Dave coming up this week right here on outdoor magazine You can hear the outdoor magazine show in Alpena on wzk 105.7 FM you can hear us in St Joe on wsjm 94.9 FM and you can hear us north of the bridge in Newberry on wnby for 1450 a.m. this segment of outdoor magazine is brought to you by Premier
Maritime training if you’ve ever wanted to get your captain’s license I think this is your best bet Captain John Littlefield taught my Captain’s class and he can help you become a licensed Captain as well check out the website PMT captain.com for more info that’s PMT captain.com John has classes across the
State so I’m sure you can find one in your time frame and in your geographic area some something that will work for you and your schedule again that’s PMT captain.com I told you about our big Trinity monitor Wild game dinner in auction last weekend and it was a wonderful success I really
Uh just it’s just a great event and and one of the things I love about the event is getting to meet oh you know a lot of my friends people I haven’t seen for a while you know for example like Johnny bowler the bear whisperer came down from
Up north from the e and it was nice but also also meeting new people Stacy skags is a guy who I I never met before but he came up to me and we started talking and I was like wow this guy he really really knows his stuff now he happens to be uh
Working with Scott kezman over at Lynwood tax atormy Lynwood tax.com but his his background is very Broad and very impressive and I thought this guy would be a great guest for the radio show and he says yeah yeah yeah I can join you so here is Stacy Skaggs on the
Outdoor magazine phone line Stacy welcome to the show how are you I’m doing fantastic Mike good morning how are you I’m doing great thanks it was nice to see you at the Trinity event thank you for coming out and supporting us you’ve got quite a background there
Stacy yeah hey I’m a legend in my own mind aren’t we all we all are no but tell me I mean you boy you you’ve done all kinds of things you work in a tax roomy now but you’ve guided turkeys across the country you’re intimately involved in white tail deer I mean
Pretty cool well thank you um I’ve been very fortunate and I’ve been very blessed to have the opportunities uh and the stuff that I’ve done it’s just been a roller coaster ride it’s up and down you know from having a TV show like yourself uh getting involved with the farming of
Deer raising deer from Little fawns all the way up to watching them breed and selling them and guiding hunts and getting hooked up with Outfitters all across the world from Africa to New Zealand to Alaska uh being able to chase animals and help people get on animals
For the first time but if I couldn’t do all that all I would do is turkey hunt I absolutely physically am ate up with turkeys that is that is my thing I think we talked on Saturday night and I think you kind of got the feeling that turkeys were pretty big in my
World yes and and they’re they’re like my number two right I mean bear my number one turkey’s number two certainly uh but I haven’t had the chance to travel the country guiding for him like you have what what was that like what’s that been like uh it’s a long 10-week process we
Start in Florida on March 10th for OAS and the thing about OAS is if you want to shoot a true Oola that’s going to be recorded into the Grand Slam books it has to be south of Jacksonville Florida anything up in the Panhandle is classified as an Eastern so we started
Down in Florida on the 10th 15th then we’d run up into Georgia Kentucky Tennessee we’d head to Texas Oklahoma Nebraska South Dakota Wyoming then we would swing back East uh hit Indiana sometimes Missouri and then finish up here in Michigan and you would think by
The time I got back to my home here in Michigan I did not want to hear a gobble I do not want to see another bird die but the day I get home the next morning I’m finding out who has a tag okay I’m still on this turkey roll who’s got a
Tag who wants it filled let’s let’s go find some birds um it’s a it’s a it’s a awesome awesome experience but boy it takes a lot of time and it’s a lot of waking up at 4 in the mornings is is hunting across the country hunting these different species
Is it basically the same as hunting turkeys here in Michigan or is it a whole different deal every every place is different uh Florida is very tough the OAS are a very tough bird to haunt they’re not very vocal at times they’ll tree Roost two three times you can get a
Good location where they are well then when they hit the ground hardly ever will they talk um a good good good buddy of mine from Louisiana he’s been on many turkey Huns with me in Florida to this day he’s shot four or five with me and
Not one of his turkeys has come in Goblin literally has just came in silent and I think the biggest mistake a lot of turkey hunters make when they’re turkey hunting is they don’t give it enough time they get a bird to gobble they get a quick response they give it 15 20
Minutes the bird shuts up well okay he lost C let’s get out of here let’s go set up on another spot the problem is if it’s an older bird a three four 5-year-old bird one of the birds that I’m looking for he’s been called to he’s probably been shot at he’s been around
The block he’s coming in quiet you never if I got a bird going we sit there for at least 45 minutes even if if he’s 200 50 yards whatever we give him time to come in because most people they he stops Goblin he’s run a series of calls
Okay he lost interest NOP he didn’t he’s just smarter and he’s just taking his time because you have to understand something that a lot of people I don’t think realiz this in the turkey Woods is opposite of the deer Woods the toms strut gobble carry on act all big and
Bad because they’re bringing the hens to them so when he’s out there gobling and he’s strutting and he’s putting on a show technically I’m supposed to come to him so it’s a standoff who’s going to win the standoff and again if he’s a smarter bird he’s going to come in quiet
And for example in Texas Texas has more turkeys than I think they do people you know you go out I mean there might be 15 16 gobblers in a roost and the whole area just lights up with these birds and they hit the ground and they just come
Running you know them are your Rios you go up to Kansas Oklahoma again you’re getting your Rio some of your some parts you’re going to get your Easterns and then you go to Wyoming totally different and then you come back home to Michigan totally different so every place that I
Hunt and guide and take people hunting it’s a little bit different but I will say the hardest Birds to kill are definitely the AAS in Florida hands down really H they’re the most challenging I is is it too early here in Michigan to start scouting because you know these
Birds where we see them right now may not be in the same place in a few weeks when the season starts well I no it is not too early uh I went for a ride again this morning just to find out where the birds are um
We really haven’t had a winter here so the birds aren’t doing their normal thing um where they are right now there’s a pretty good chance they’re going to be there come turkey season um I have cameras out I have cell phone cameras out right now running to catch
Birds traveling to and from and again I’m very fortunate I do a lot of driving a lot of scouting I know where a lot of birds just typically naturally hang out through the past you know 10 15 20 years generally speaking there’s going to be
Birds in this area are you going to get a bird toh you every morning probably not but there’s birds there and you can’t kill a turkey in the woods if there’s no turkeys so it’s just like anything else you got to put a lot of windshield time in find them knocking on
Doors looking at your hunt Onyx Maps finding out whose property is where and once you find it you know stick with it because if there’s birds there now there’s probably going to be Birds there in April and you you said something that is so simple and so basic but I’ve never
Even thought of it before I you know we got trail cameras out for deer hunting and I see birds on my trail cameras quite often but I’ve never thought of actually moving some of those cameras over to my turkey hunting property and setting them out to use them to scalp
For for turkeys I I I never thought of that before Stacy that’s stupid but I never thought of it well it’s you know through these years of trial and error I’ve learned and made a lot of mistakes and I try to take people out and I try to show them
Where I’ve made the mistakes and don’t do what I’ve done let’s do it like this because I’ve learned through the years of what to and what not to do but Trail cameras let’s face it Mike they’ve changed the game of everything from deer hunting to bear hunting to elk hunting I
Mean there’s trail cameras in New Zealand there’s trail cameras in Africa I they they got cameras everywhere I mean I’m paying monthly for all these cameras well why not set them up let’s just see what we get now I don’t get turkeys every day some places I do get
Turkeys every day and that’s good but at least I have an idea there’s birds there yeah yeah yeah trail cameras very very very hand be a little tool yeah I’m and I’m sitting here mulling this through as we’re talking to maybe the reason I haven’t done that is I can do that
Windshield time you were talking about I got a couple of farms I can just drive by and if I you know I can see birds out there so okay I know they’re around so maybe I don’t need to to go to that level of detail but I’m I’m so geeked
About this upcoming turkey hunting season let me ask you this Daisy are you one of those guys who will go out and Roost go after roosting birds or do you wait until midm morning and go out well as I get older I get smarter and I really really like to sleep in and
I like breakfast so no I very seldom ever ever ever Rost hunt and the reason for that is there’s two or three reasonings but you can sit on a road on a piece of property and watch floor long beard go up to roost you do not see a
Hen for a half mile and you’re like this going to be a slam dunk we’re going to come in here in the morning they’re going to pitch down we’re going to kill them you go in there at 4:30 in the morning you wait and all a sudden you hear that
And you’re just you look at each go where’d that hen come from and then I’ll sudden there’s two hens then there’s four hens and I don’t care I don’t care how good your decoy is you’re not going to pull that time from live from live
Hens so I just wasted all that time so I get up in the morning I and I even tell my gu my clients this I say just ch ch ch ch relax let’s have some breakfast have some coffee we’ll you know we’ll go out we’ll start driving around when we
Start seeing lone gobblers in fields 9 9:30 it’s game time because for two reasons number one he’s pulled off of him has his hands number two there’s a lot less people out in the woods because everybody gets up there just hell me to get out there first thing in the morning
I’ve been there I’ve done it and the hunt gets blown they go back home well that’s when I take people out let’s go most of my birds are shot between 10 o’clock and two o’clock we strike a bird at that time we’re going to kill that bird I I I
I think most of my birds have been later in the morning too you know I will routinely go out there but I hunt differently right I I I bow hunt uh over decoys usually but I set up in one of my Primal wraith 270 blinds and I just kind
Of wait them out I’m I’m pretty patient when it comes to turkey hunting I’ll go out there early and if I’m lucky I’ll get a bird first thing but more more than often than not like you say Stacy it’ll be a midm morning thing if I just
Sit there drink some coffee maybe take a little nap mid morning those birds will start to wander and then they become really good targets hang tight Stacy talking to Stacy Skaggs Stacy’s a hardcore turkey hunter a turkey guide he’s also a taxidermist he’s working at a Lynwood Beach Marina right I’m sorry
Lynwood Taxidermy right now lywood taxidermy.com got to take a break here in the outdoor magazine show more questions when we come back about this Springtime season coming up that I just love so very Much You can hear the outdoor magazine showing Battle Creek on wbck that’s 95.3 FM you can hear us in the thumb in sanduski on wmic 660 a.m. 95.3 FM and you can hear us north of the bridge in the Sue on uh wkw 14400 a.m this segment of outdoor
Magazine is brought to you by Rapid River knives oh I got to get it you know this sound right here that’s the sound of the Rapid River knife being opened as I pulled it out of my pocket I carry this thing with me every day all day I
Just think a knife is a great tool and I don’t think there’s a better knife you can get here in our great state of Michigan than a handmade maybe even a customade knife from the folks at Rapid River if you get a chance stop by their
Showroom just east of Rapid River on us too it’s a very very impressive place you can beautiful um Outdoor Experience a lot of mounts great selection you can watch your knife being made you can get it engraved while you’re there Rapid River knives are guaranteed for life if
You can’t make it to the showroom go to the website Rapid River knifeworks.com knifeworks.com To think about getting ready for this season coming up well I I think don’t overthink it like I said before you want to be patient um you just the biggest thing that I can tell you is setup setup setup setup I mean there’s a lot of different
V variables decoys no decoys two callers one call you know two people but one thing that a lot of people do and they do it and I get it and I’ve done it if they set up on the edge of a field they put their decoys out in the field and
Why do people sit on the edge of a field for visibility they want to be able to see almost 360 Degrees around him well you put your hand decoy out there you got a bird going he pops out at 100 yards and he’s strutting he’s all big
And bad and he’s given the show but don’t forget technically he’s out there to get that hen to come to him and after 10 minutes that hen doesn’t move and he kind of loses interest and he backs off of it and everyone’s like oh man I don’t
Know he’s been called to no what you needed to do if you have a bird going is set up in the woods it’s kind of like a game of hide and seek okay you’re hiding you want him to seek you so don’t put your hand where she’s so visible that he
Can pop out at 100 200 yards and just be crazy calling and you’re all oh yeah there we go no no no no be back in the bush get yourself in September make him make him come to you because she’s supposed to come to him and if it’s a
Two-year-old bird it’s he’s probably going to come running in but once you get to those older more mature birds that have been around the block they’re going to be a little bit smarter they’re going to know well we played this game before I watched Joey get shot the other
Week doing this so I’m G to stand back here and just see what happens um a lot of different setups you can definitely definitely over call a bird don’t I call maybe every five minutes if I got a bird going what I do Mike is I
Like to call take their temperature if I hit a series of calls two three seconds go by he pounds me he’s lukewarm I run a series of calls as soon as I stop he hammers me he’s hot I run a series of calls he cuts me off he
Just that bird is boiling hot that Bird’s fired up that Bird’s yours that’s the bird that bird is the one I want and a lot of times when I’m with somebody they’ll they’ll want to jump right down on a tree and get set up I’m like whoa
Whoa whoa bump the brakes we need to see what way he’s coming in just stand right here with this tree let’s get him going you know and when you call you just sometimes you got to hammer him just and just get him fired up get him excited don’t
Just no no no you got to get that bird fired get his head as red as a Coca-Cola can coming at you once I get a direction where the bird’s coming I’ll put the hunter down I’ll jump 20 yards behind me behind the hunter now again I don’t have
Any decoys out because I want this bird to find me so I keep going I keep going if that bird hangs up 40 yards from me he’s 20 yards from the hunter Chip Shot slam dunk dead bird so again when you’re setting up think about it that bird just
Because you can see a great big distance that’s good but so can the Tom so you want to make it the thicker the bush the better get in there and try to set up on top of a knob on top of a hill make that
Bird come up the hill to you to find you because if he’s if you’re set up on the bottom he can be up on the hill looking down at you so make sure you get up on top of that hill and draw that bird up the hill have your guys sitting there
Have you sitting there when he Peaks his Hut over the hill like hello I’m here y whack him right in the face so you just want to make sure Stacy I tell you what you you you have you have succeeded in in getting me even more geeked than I already was for
This upcoming season so I listen I got to let you go but I’d love to have you back on the show here again also I think we need to talk about some trout fishing sometime too right oh boy there we go trout and turkey now you’re right in my wheel
House all right we will be sure to that do that Stacy skags uh again it was nice to meet you thanks for your support of our Trinity dinner appreciate you joining us on the show this week and we’ll talk again well anytime Mike just give me a
Call all right I will do that by the way Stacy works at Lynwood tax aty Lynwood tax Ator me.com we’ll take a break when we come back this week’s ask Avery segment a little bit out of order but I thought you know what there’s no reason
That I have to put it in a specific time of each week’s show so it’s coming up after the break right here on outdoor magazine You can hear the outdoor magazine show in Koo on W Kyo 1360 a.m. and WL 92.1 FM you can hear us in Lancing on WS 1320 a.m. and you can hear us north of the bridge in Marquette w dmj 1320 a.m. as well the ask Avery segment
Brought to you each week by the good Folks at Security Credit Union Security Credit Union loves to work with Outdoors men and women and they can help you with your next Outdoor Adventure check them out online at securitycu.org securitycu.org this week’s question comes from my buddy Craig Plowman he
Says Mike I heard you talking about the new rules for guides but what are the rules to be a first mate and are they the same if you’re on the great lakes or an in Inland lake or river well so let’s talk about that and more with Seth
Herpst of the DNR Seth was uh involved in uh in kind of getting this program together Seth appreciate your time welcome back how are you I’m doing well Mike how are you this morning I’m doing great so let’s let’s talk about this this new license uh who does it apply to
Who does it pertain to yeah so the new license is part of the new Inland sport fishing guide program it’s a program that stems from some State uh legislation that was passed last fall and it will apply to anybody who’s taking clients out for hire on any of our Inland waters for uh
Guided fishing trips not Coast Guard licensed chedder captains they’re already they’re in right they they are in y so as part of the the conversation one of the things that we wanted to make sure that we were being cognizant of was overall costs and the financial burden and we recognize
That uh going through the US Coast Guard to get your Merchant Mariner credentials is a little bit more expensive or quite a bit more expensive than just getting an inland pilot’s license so there is a fee waiver for the individuals that have their captain’s license issued to the US
Coast Guard but I will point out that they still will be required to have a sport fishing guide license to operate on Inland Waters it’ll just come with a a fe waiver Inland Waters does that include connecting Rivers so the St Mary’s River the Detroit River those will all be
Classified under the the Great Lakes Charter B program so if somebody was fishing the Sagar River and taking out clients they need a guides license because that’s not a that’s not a connecting water right that is correct yep okay I wasn’t aware of that so I appreciate that so what about Craig’s
Question about first mates are they somehow included in this at all Seth so the first mates themselves are not required to have a guiding license unless they don’t have the actual captain that would be operating as the guide with them so one of the things that um really sparked this legislation
Was an interest in having increased credibility um Among The Guiding Community it was legislation that uh was supported and pushed by Michigan United conservation clubs and several other guiding clubs throughout the state wanting to really make sure that uh there was increased requirements to ensure their clients
Were having a high quality experience as well as a a safe experience so some of the requirements here include uh making sure that sport fishing guides have first aid in CPR training just in case something does come up and in a health issue arises as they have clients out on
The boat but then the other aspect is they wanted to make sure that uh sport fishing guides and really hunting guides have uh a clean record in terms of following hunting and fishing regulations and thank you you let you you you beat me to my next question this
Does apply to hunting guides as well correct it does yeah so you know I’m in Fisheries Division and focusing on the sport fishing aspect of this program but last fall there was additional legislation that was passed for hunting guides as well and if I remember right
If I I think this is 150 bucks for three years how does somebody get this Seth yep so you can go online we have our website or just Google um sport fishing guides in Michigan and there’s an initial questionnaire that the sport fish fishing guides will need to complete that’ll then alert the
Department that uh they’re interested in acquiring that license we’ll just make sure that the requirements are met and then will allow that individual to purchase their license using our e-licensing platform or our new DNR huntfish app and this went into effect March 1 March 1 yeah so March 1 was the
Statutory deadline for making sure that the licensing program was up and running um and as of today I think we have roughly 250 individuals that have already applied for their sport fishing guiding license and real quick before I let you go then will there be a sticker on the
Boat or the vehicle or is just just a card that somebody will carry in their wallet this would just be something that uh the sport fishing guides would need to show to our conservation officers if they interact with them in the field so nothing that would need to be displayed
On the boat um just you know very similar to your standard recreational fishing license gotcha thank you Seth I appreciate that Seth Herpst of the Michigan DNR michigan.gov DNR we will be talking more about this in our second hour with Justin to of mucc as Seth said
Uh mucc was one of the groups pushing this and again a big thank you to the folks at Security Credit Union for making each week’s ask every segment possible check them out online at securitycu.org securitycu.org and thank you Craig Plowman for this week’s question I think
Um yeah I think that I like the ability to be able to move this segment around in the show so we’ll see It’ll usually be at the end of the second hour but I will I will keep the option open of moving it around I can’t move the hours
Around though this is the end of hour one coming up after the break at the top of the hour hour two of this week time now for Michigan’s number one outdoor radio show Mike Avery’s outdoor magazine Mike Avery has covered the outdoors in Michigan for more than four decades and that tradition continues
Today outdoor magazine is brought to you by J Sporting Goods the Ider Insurance Group angler Quest pontoons the forward Corporation Primal outdoors security credit union offshore TX Garber Chevrolet Rapid River knif Works and by Michigan bran meets now here’s Mike Avery indeed this is the big guy Mike
Avery thank you Ken Hunter for that introduction and welcome to hour number two of this week’s outdoor magazine radio show right here on the outdoor magazine radio network on more than 30 radio stations across the great state of Michigan and I do think the best way to
Listen to this show if you can is on your local radio station your local am or FM station that you’re used to listening to anyway where you get your local news and your local weather and your local sports and your local talk shows your local people well you know
Those local stations are sharing part of their weekend schedule with me and I appreciate it and I would encourage you to listen to the show if you can on your local radio station if you can’t if your local station doesn’t carry all three hours of the show or if you live in some
Part of our state not covered by the broadcast signal it’s nice to know there’s a podcast version of the show available you can hear the podcast version of the show well anywhere you listen to your podcast I do put it on my website Mike ay outdoors.com it’s also
On the Facebook page every week it’s on Amazon music audible Twitter now called x x LinkedIn Apple music what is Apple music called I think still Apple music Google play iHeart Radio SoundCloud Spotify TuneIn Stitcher player FM dieser Odyssey among others and on YouTube even
I put a version of the radio show up on YouTube every month so if you can’t hear the radio show please check out the podcast I know podcast is getting absolutely huge I love podcast myself I’ve been doing it for many many years um in fact when we’re done here in the
Studio Charlie are you going to stick around for that podcast you are okay when we’re done recording the radio show this week we’re going to record this month’s offshore tackle podcast this time featuring Ed retherford of trout Scout Charters uh on Northern Lake hiron Ed is one of the longest running Charter
Captains on the Great Lakes so we’re going to talk to him about that we’re going to talk to him about the fishery and of course his relationship with offshore tackle another guy who has a relationship with offshore a good friend of mine uh Lance Valentine Lance is one
Of my favorite guests I have learned more about fishing and fishing electronics and the subtleties and nuances and trying to think outside the box in the world of fishing from my buddy Lance Valentine than probably anybody else you can follow him online at teach and fishing.com teaching fishing.com and all over social media
You can find him this weekend at the big uh outdoor show in Grand Rapids as well as we are talking with him now midweek he’s just setting up for the show but he’s decided to sit down for a few minutes and talk with me and Lance Valentine I appreciate it buddy how are
You I’m doing great Mikey how are you I’m doing good I think I’m going to come over and visit you guys this weekend uh you know we were driving over and I was talking to my wife I told I had to do the interview and she said he this might
Going to be there this weekend so I I’ll I’ll tell her you’re gonna stop by and say hi I think I am gonna do that yeah that show I mean that show holds a special place in my heart because 50 years ago I used to go there with my dad
So to be able to come back my dad’s gone out be able to come back to the show I just it’s a pretty special show to me yeah you know it’s it’s it’s a great show for us because it’s a whole different customer base for us it’s it’s
All you know all our Westside friends and um you know we get a chance to come over here and talk about some Eastside stuff and you know teach him a little about fishing in the Detroit River and you know we’ve got uh you our custom line of tackle that always does well
Over here and just a you know it’s a nice break we don’t get a chance to see our Westside friends too often during the year so being here at the show is something that we always look forward to too that’s an interesting point uh Lance
I hadn’t really thought of this a lot of the um a lot of the fishing that you do is is on the East Side Saga Bay Saga River Detroit River Lake Eerie so those wests side Anglers um boy I bet you they’re I I bet you they’re really um
Anxious to get that East Side walleye info yeah you know we’re we’re able to come over here and there’s a lot of good fisherman over here and you know anytime you can you can share what you do every day with if uh a good fisherman doesn’t
Get a chance to do it every day obviously there’s a lot of things to learn and you know we’ve learned a lot of things over here too coming over here we’ve been coming over here for 20 some years now and you you get to know these
Guys over here on the West Side they fish a little bit different over here fishing’s a little tougher they sure don’t have the population of fish we’re lucky to have on the east side so they got to be a little more detail oriented if you will they got to pay attention to
Details and you get a chance to talk to them and you know you always pick up something anytime you talk to a good angler you should have your ears open and understand that you can learn something from everybody so we yeah we always look forward to it’s always a
Good four days for us over here well and the cool thing about that downtown Grand Rapids venue as you can look out the window and see the Grand River and see people steel Head fishing there right next to the show yeah I don’t know if that’s good or bad distracting is
It sometimes it can be distracting we luckily we’re we’re right in the middle of the show floor so we can’t see enough of it but uh you know Lance Keen I know you’ve talked to Lance a couple times but you know I met Lance um long time AG
Go worked with his dad Dave at uh Berkeley pure fishing and we’d come to the Grand Rapid show and you know Lance wouldn’t show up till 11:30 12 o’clock every day at the show booth because he was out steel heading every morning so um yeah it’s a really cool place to to
Come get to you know every day we we drive in every morning and drive uh past the Grand River and we get to see people fishing so yeah it’s kind of nice you know we’d like a little a little bad weather for show week you know it kind
Of helps you know people aren’t fishing they’re probably going to come to the show but uh it is it is a cool right here on the river so what is involved for you Lance in in setting up for a show like this I mean I I can tell right
Now honestly I know you well enough I can tell you’re a little distracted what’s going on right now uh so we just got here um and fortunately and unfortunately our booth is kind of right in the middle uh and a lot of folks set up on Tuesday so we’re trying to get the
Whole got my wife in the truck right now on load and we’re trying to get the whole truck unloaded so we can get out of here before we get trapped in here with the truck um um so but uh yeah you know it is look it it is what it is it’s
Setup day of show week it’s always uh always chaos it’s always a long day it’s always a little bit of work but uh we’ve got good helpers I got my wife Carl with me this weekend and she’s getting ready to yell and scream at a chair she can’t
Get out of the back of the truck but um yeah we you know teamwork and we just kind of all work together and we just kind of take our time and get it done so yeah look at it’s part of the thing man well you know part of doing what we
Do given the fact that you’re tied up right now I it makes me even know it makes me even appreciate our time here on the radio show even more Lance so thank you I do appreciate that hey a little bit off topic but it’s a it it it
Ties into a conversation I had at the end of the first hour of this week’s radio show um are well I didn’t realize that I knew there was this new Inland Michigan fishing guide license that was out there I I didn’t realize that you know if you were also licensed Charter Captain you
Also had to get that River guide license like you Lance that would apply apply to you too wouldn’t it yeah you know I I don’t know all the details um I know we could apply uh March 1st was the first day to apply some application in I
Honestly don’t even really know what it is well let me help you out here are do you run any trips on the Sagar River uh I don’t traditionally but that’s becoming much more of an option as you know the Winters change um know our season extends further into the
Winter opens up earlier so I probably will be so obviously I’m going to have to have it for that for that you will actually as I think about it now for the Detroit River you will not for the St Clair River you will not so you’re good
To go there unless you go up in the Sagar somewhere else I haven’t seen you before you should be good good to go buddy yeah but you know it’s one of those things look at I’m I’m a full-time Charter Captain um so I’m not going
To not get an extra whatever I have to have permit wise you know to to limit me on where I can fish so like I said the application day was March 1st and we sent our application in that first day so oh you did okay should have it here
Pretty quick yeah got got you yeah so as soon as you this what I do right well it is so what so what you’re going to do seminars this weekend at the show too aren’t you I’m sure we have uh two seminars every day we’ll be on Lake
Ultimate talking about uh Detroit River jigging it’s kind of uh one of the most popular seminars that we do with the show F gang uh and we’ll be on Lake ultimate uh twice daily starting tomorrow and uh you know it’s always good it’s always good to get up there be
On the boat talk about fishing the tra River it’s easy to show when you’re in the boat kind of the you know one of the most important things about jig fishing is your rod angle you know your Rod tip needs to be down uh specific way of
Holding the rod so you get a lot more sensitivity when you’re jigging and it’s a lot easier to do in a boat than it is to do in the classroom so being on the boat on Lake ultimate is really cool um get to drive the boat around there’s
Some trout there that Thursday are pretty easy to catch Friday a little easy not quite as easy by the time Saturday rolls around they’re a little sanky and by Sunday they don’t want to bite anything so Thursday’s always a fun day because we usually catch a catch a
Few rainbow trout around there speaking of jigan I was on the sagona river last week with our mutual friend Captain Mark panac of real fishing yep and it made me realize it made me remember that I don’t jig fish enough anymore to really have a
Sense for it I mean I used to spend a lot of time jig fishing and I felt I was okay but Mark was up there in the front just just beating a snot out of me you know multiple fish when I’m trying to catch one and it reminded me that
Jigging is not hard but there is there is a rhythm and a finesse to it isn’t there Jing’s not hard but it is complicated thank you that’s the line I was looking for yes I know you were I I I I could I could hear your hear your
Wheels spinning I’m like I know where he’s going with this uh yeah you know it is and it’s it’s the subtlety of jigging it’s uh you know usually once you get that first or second bite um you’re you’re kind of dialed in you know but it’s that that first couple
Initial bites first time especially if you haven’t done it for a while um there’s definitely an art to it there’s an art to you know keeping your line tight there’s an art to understanding the Rhythm you know jig should be on the bottom well let’s talk more about that I
Hate to interrupt you here we we got to take a break so let’s follow up on this after the break you got four minutes off here now to get a bunch of work done after the break let’s come back and talk more about this finesse of jigging uh
For Walle we’re talking with Lance Valentine of teaching fishing teaching fishing.com teaching fishing.com he is at the big Grand Rapid show this weekend stop by and uh say hi we’ll take a break lots more coming up after the break right here with Lance Valentine on outdoor Magazine You can hear the outdoor magazine show in Shaban on Big Country Gold wcby 12:40 a.m. 100.7 FM you can hear us in Flint on Sports extra 1330 wtrx and you can hear us north of the bridge in Escanaba the Riviera of the north on W CHT 600 am
93.5 FM this segment of outdoor magazine brought to you by killer food plots michigan-based familyowned killer foodplot killer foodplot decom I had invited Rich croan of killer food plots to join us at our Wednesday Night Live at the Lumberjack restaurant on the 20th but he’s tied up uh he was on the show
Last week but he will join us for future Wednesday night lives I know you’re not putting in food plots yet but it’s not going to be long now is it so I would encourage you to check out that website killer foodplot dcom killer foodplot dcom to see what’s out there get in
Touch with Rich if you need some help um because that season is just around the corner and I will have him here on the radio show a couple of more times here over the next few weeks again killer foodplot tocom while you are online please check out my website Mikey re
Outdoors.com and then jump on over to teaching fishing.com teaching fishing.com is the website of Lance Valentine from there you can get to all of his social media Outlets all of his live streams uh he’s with us now on the phone line he’s checking in getting ready for the big Grand Rapid show as
You are hearing the radio show he is doing seminars there and he has a booth there at the show in downtown Grand Rapids uh Lance Let’s go back to this H finesse of jigging jigging is a great way to Target fish in the rivers in the springtime isn’t it yeah it absolutely
Is you know most fish uh especially as the water’s cold they’re going to be you know close to the bottom staying out of the heavy current you usually hidden next to or beside something where there’s a little bit of slack wire a little bit of a current brake and you
Know you’re dealing with heavy current uh Detroit River St Clair River specifically you’re dealing with heavy current best way to keep it you know jig down to the or lure down to the bottom uh is vertical jigging you’re just moving your boat same speed as the current keeping your line vertical
Straight up and down and just slowly moving that jig up and down as you fly down current and it looks natural to a fish it looks like natural food coming to them and it’s a pretty easy way to once you get dialed into the boat control and a little bit of finesse uh
With the rod it’s uh it’s fairly easy Once you kind of understand it and it’s extremely extremely effective I know the size of the jig the weight of the jig is a factor but is the shape of The Jig also a factor as well yeah sh shape is
Huge right um you know you want a jig that cuts through the current um you know round ball jigs are are not as efficient as know some of the newer designs um that have come out and you know we worked really hard I don’t know
15 years ago to design a jig that you know has a pointed nose so it turns into the current faces into the current doesn’t wobble back and forth and then we put a lot of the weight of the jig on the back of the jig and the bottom The
Jig we call them cheeks what that does is the water hits that nose it splits it goes over hits those cheeks and actually forces The Jig down so our our 3/4 ounce jig fish is like a 1 ooun our 1 oz fish is like an ounce and a quarter just
Because of the way on the hits them but whatever jig you’re going to buy you know round ball jigs uh no matter what technique you’re doing look I don’t care if you’re casting trolling I don’t care if you’re fishing for bluegills I don’t care if you’re bobber fishing for crappies I
Don’t care if you’re vertical jigging for wal I don’t care if you’re kissing you know weed edges for bass uh a round ball jig should never ever be your first choice there are much better jigs for every situation so buy the jigs that are designed specifically for whatever
You’re doing with a jig you’ll catch a lot more fish because you’ll be a lot more efficient so so are you are you putting plastic on those jigs are you putting live bait what are you tipping them with what do you what do you what
Are you using yeah so so I’m a plastic guy I used to be a minnow guy uh I Haven B A mnow I think now we’re going on year 13 or 14 um so it’s just Plastics but you know the shape of your plastic is a
Big deal um we fish five basic shapes and the reason we do that is each one of those shapes represents a different style of bait fish type of bait fish and more importantly each plastic has two characteristics what we call fall rate how fast it falls back to the bottom and
Then what we call fall angle uh does it fall straight to the bottom or does it kind of slide back down current a little bit so as you adjust your shape the longer skinnier and thinner the body is faster it’s going to fall and the more
Straight down it’s going to fall as you get a fatter bulkier wider body what’s going to happen is it’s going to fall a little bit slower and it’s going to fall a little bit down current so that shape is much more important every day than
The color is so if you get the shape right you can miss the color if you get the color right and miss the shape you’re not going to catch any fish do you put any scent on it at all uh I’m a big scent guy uh below
About 55 degrees uh I use Pro here trophy Walley garlic night color are my two favorites but I do use uh the GOI every once in a while but yeah I’m a big believer that scent does make a difference um especially in cold re water now look at a scent product isn’t
Going to get fish you know to swim over to your you know jigs from 30 ft away but does give them that little last trigger when they get close to that jig it smells right and definitely when they Chomp down on it now they’ve got something that just kind of tastes right
Gives you that LE just split second for them to hang on to your jig and you get a chance to set the hook what about a stinger hook Stinger hooks all the time never without a stinger hook you know the key to a stinger Hook is uh you know
Tie it on good heavy abrasion resistant mono floral carbon sinks braid is too soft you want a you know 14 16 pound brasion resistant mono that hangs stiff and the big key of the Stinger is don’t hook the Stinger into your body or your bait let your stinger hang if you hook
It into your bait or your plastic the fish still has to move all of that bulk of The Jig in the plastic to get in his mouth if you let the Stinger hang they can actually suck in that Stinger hug without having to move uh your
Presentation so you got to catch a lot more fish if you just let that Stinger hook just kind of hang off the back of your body I saw that for the first time fishing with Mark panac last week I had always put my Stingers in the plastic or
The Minnow um um so this is the first time I’d ever seen it but the concept does make a lot of sense just leave it free hanging there yeah because now that’s the lightest part of the whole presentation the fish can actually move that Stinger without having to move the
Jig uh the body that whole big presentation okay now we’re going we’re going to get a little technical here are you okay are are you bouncing that bait off the bottom are you slowly dropping it walk me through your your the Finesse part of the technique so my my typical
Every today let’s just go jig fishing um is down to the bottom tap the bottom a slow lift up about 68 inches and then a tight line drop to the bottom tick the bottom and lift it back up um so it’s it’s a constant Cadence you you know
Boom there’s the bottom boom there’s the bottom boom there’s the bottom boom there’s the bottom anything that changes that Cadence jig gets heavier jig gets lighter doesn’t get to the bottom on time uh set the hook because that that’s what that’s what fish are doing remember when you’re vertical jigging your line
Your lure is not going to the water horizontally when your line goes through the water horizontally fish grabs it he pulls tight Your Rod you know jumps up down hey I got one that doesn’t happen when you’re jigging you’re lifting and dropping that jig and all Walley is
Going to do is suck it in and stop it from falling or when it hits the bottom he’s going to get on top of it and pin it to the bottom so all you’re going to do is f your jig a little heavier a little bit lighter or not get to the
Bottom on time that’s bite that’s fish need to set the hook so keeping a tight line is key I see too many guys snap and their jig goes down on a slack line you do that Walley can literally suck your jig in and spit it out before you even
Know you got a bite so it’s tight line up about 68 inches tight line down to the bottom tight line up tight line down always keeping that line tight so anything that happens to that jig any movement at all you feel it through you know again braided line no stretch line
And then I like short stiff rods so you feel that that really subtle bite a lot better than you do with a soft long a longer softer action Rod you talk about a fish being able to suck that bait in and spit it back out um I I I can’t put
My hands on this video anymore but at one time years ago I had some video of a Walleye sucking in a jig and I broke it down frame by frame and it literally took a tenth of a second for that fish to suck that thing in boy that’s you got
To react pretty quick it’s faster than you snap your snap your finger you know and the one I remember back to uh Ricky Ken was on a uh in a swimming pool Glenn La was filming and Ricky Ken one the best bass fisherman that ever lived
Supps a crankbait the length of a pool cranks it in and before it gets back to him at the pool four bass sucked in that crankbait and spit it out and he never fell a single one of them so these fish especially when they’re below the jig
Like they are in River fishing or if they come behind it like they do sometimes when you’re trolling they can grab a b a f a bait suck it in spit it out and how does that happen because look at everybody here that’s listening has dropped a crankbait on the carpet
And all six hooks are in the carpet how can a fish suck it in how can a fish suck in a bait and and not get hooked but but dang it they do it they do it every day when when I hear you talk about your jigging Technique it really
Uh reiterates or brings home the fact that you want a little bit heavier jig so you can keep that constant contact with your bait yeah so so the way I teach it is a bite is your jig just feels different and then I say the
Easier it is to feel your jig the easier it is to feel something different on your jig if you’re fishing a lighter jig and you’re constantly going is that the bottom is that the bottom some of those are bites and you don’t know it bottom should be instant The Jig should you
Should always be able to feel the jig that’s what that heavy jig does and now a 1 oce jig now weighs an ounce and an eight that’s a fish 1 oce jig now weighs 78 of an ounce that’s a fish if you’re fish in a 38 or a half ounce jig you
Really don’t get that difference in F because it’s not as big of a deal as it is with a bigger jig so you’ve got to be able to feel bottom you gotta be able to stay vertical you got to be able to feel your jig I don’t care how big the jig is
Some of the guides are even going to one and a half and two ounce jigs for some of their customers in the back of the boat and they’re still catching fish so um I think a heavy jig is definitely the way to go no matter where you’re fishing
And that’s so interesting to me because early on I remember fishing you know Sagal River with Gary roach years and years ago and he’s he’s using an e oun jig you’re talking about finesse and I’m thinking I can’t even feel the bottom Gary how are you talking about
Finesse exactly and that’s the thing if you can’t feel your jig and can’t feel bottom you can’t catch a fish Jiggy now you can’t like you can catch them on lighter jigs but here here’s been the theory the theory has been the ler The Jig the easier it is for the fish to
Suck it in I go the other way think about it if you lift a 1 o jig and you you start to let it fall to the bottom it wants to go to the bottom so as a fish is trying to suck that jig in inertia is actually putting that jig in
That fish’s mouth you’ve got a light jig that fish tries to suck it in that light jig is taking its time to fall a heavier jig is actually falling into the fish towards the fish a lot faster with a lot more inertia than a light Jig Is I think
You get a lot more subtle bites and a lot more non-aggressive bites for the heavy jig than you ever do river fishing with light jig real quick before I let you go early in the conversation you talked about the angle of the rod tell me more about that yeah so you can’t jig
Sitting down I I’ll make I’ll make that simple and you want to make sure that your Rod tip is down your Rod CHP should be down at about a 45 degree angle hold the Reel at your side Rod tip should be down only about four or six inches off
The surface and here’s the big thing rule in my boat you never get your Rod tip higher than the rod butt so you don’t lift the rod tip to jig you set that angle about a 45 degree angle with the rod tip down and you just lift your
Arm so now that whole 45 degree angle just lifts if you start lifting Your Rod tip up up and snap with your wrist if you get a fish at the top of your stroke you have nowhere to go to get any leverage to set the hook so just set
That angle about a 45 degree angle R to about four six inches off the surface and just lift your arm you’re just lifting that 45 degree angle now you’ve got all the Arc of the rock the hook if you get a bite at the top of the stroke Lynch you are the
Man that’s what I do man have a good show buddy I appreciate your time if I get over there I’ll stop by and say hi yeah please do looking forward to as always I I really appreciate having us on Mike well I appreciate you joining us Lance Valentine of teaching fishing teaching
Fishing.com teing fishing.com the guy can say more in one 10-minute radio conversation than I can come up with them on my own in a year of fishing on the water teaching fishing.com teaching fishing.com Justin to of muc after the break right here on outdoor magazine you can hear the outdoor magazine show
In Holton Lake on two stations the Twister 92.1 wtws and 98.5 wups you can hear us in Holland on whtc that’s 1450 a.m. 99.7 FM and you can hear us north of the bridge in Iron Mountain in fact on wmq 1450 a.m this segment of outdoor
Magazine is brought to you by Matt Smith Outdoors realtor Matt a longtime friend of mine a great guy he’s an expert at finding recreational properties and vacation homes and he can help your family turn a dream into a reality learn more online at Matt Smith Outdoors he’s
On Facebook and Instagram again is Matt Smith Outdoors and by the way if you’re looking for a new home as your primary residence Matt can help you out there as well that’s Matt Smith Outdoors on Facebook and Instagram and Matt by the way was at our big Trinity monitor Wild
Game dinner and auction last week and I thank you Matt for that okay I was talking earlier in the show about this new uh commercial guiding license with Seth Herpst of the DNR and he mentioned that muc was one of the groups that was pushing this uh Justin toay is with muc
You’ve heard Justin here on the show before uh Justin welcome back buddy how you doing I’m doing well Mike how are you I’m doing good doing good so a lot of things to talk about I think this time around um let’s start with this commercial guiding license you guys at
Mucc did indeed push this what was the thinking behind it yeah so this started actually as a member resolution back in 1997 um and the the simplest way to boil it down was to prevent Bad actors and poachers from posing as legitimate guides it it was something that had
Happened um in the past in the state and so the idea was you set a very uh kind of moderate threshold of requirements to become a commercial guide it helps lend some legitimacy to the industry and it keeps those Bad actors from posing as legitimate guides and when I say very
Moderate package when this first was drafted there were like Insurance Riders and some very stringent regulations and heavy fees and now $150 for three years um can’t be a poacher can’t be a felon and when I say poacher I mean like big violation like possession of a protected
Species um and you doing it on public land or public Waters and and that’s kind of the the basic threshold of what what it takes to be a guy now well yeah we don’t want people who are intentionally poachers but you know I mean in theory almost anybody and any
Well-intentioned angler could find themselves with a fish that’s a little bit short or maybe you’re out there on sag a bay whing the snot out of walleye and you didn’t count real well and you got an extra fish I mean could that keep you from being a guide
The the limitations are drawn out in statute and and I don’t have every line of it in front of me but the idea behind it is it is the most stringent and strict and severe penalty so severely going over bag limits that could be a problem possession of a protected species nigh hunting
It’s it’s the big stuff a lot of those things are actually misdemeanors and and they don’t necessarily rise but the actual things that will prohibit you from being gu are listed out specifically in the bill and Seth was telling us that if you’re a licensed uh captain from the Coast Guard
If you if you’re going to be on an inland lake or river you would still need this but the fee is waved is that how it works correct yeah the that that exemption was made because the requirements placed on um those that operate in Great Lakes and protect or
And connecting Waters under the Coast Guard’s Authority have already have a more stringent um set of rules applied to them so we didn’t think the fee was the added fee was necessary for those people already participating in those acts and this applies for hunting too not just fishing
Right yep this also will apply to guides um and hunting guides on public land um there are a number of other car vs as well um but yes hunting guides on public land those those exchanging services for some consideration of value okay so if you’re going to take somebody out hunting or if
You’re going to take somebody out fishing um to me I think it makes sense that there would be some level of accountability here so no Fisher game violations what else what else do you have to have to get this license you got to be first a CPR certified um you know
Which which probably cost you $100 for two-e two-year certification on those um you got to have a base license if you’re hunting fishing license if you’re fishing um valid a valid driver’s license um there is some added fees for non-resident guides um and and really
That’s about it but but some of the car outs that are important to note is let’s say you wanted to take me out on your boat and I threw you some money for gas voluntary sharing of expenses doesn’t constitute a consideration of value so buying your buddy lunch cuz he takes you
Out fishing or giving him some gas money you or that doesn’t do it taking somebody out on your private land doesn’t require you to be a guide um and and nonprofits like if we do an R3 event to try and get new Hunters you know that
We don’t need to be guides to do that either you know I I’ve heard some people say well this is just another way for the DNR to get more money but there there’s not going to be that much money generated by it and to me the benefits
Far outweigh the downside of it it’s my personal uh opinion we we would agree with you I I we don’t know how many guides operate so it’s hard to to say how much money they will actually be bringing in um my best guess is it probably won’t even cover the cost to to
To do the program but something that the DNR is going to get that I’d argue is more valuable than the money is there are some reporting requirements on these guides and so the DNR is going to collect a lot of important biological data that they’re not currently getting
That data is all protected from Foya there can be no individual um information or anything like that given out in Foya so they’re not going to give up your secret fishing spot but they are going to collect a lot on harvest effort you know Harvest per catch unit how many
Fish are catching where they’re catching them um and it’s going to help with our fish and hunting management a lot Hang Tight Justin we got to take a break here in the outdoor magazine show talking talking with Justin toay of muc mcc.org more after the break right here on outdoor Magazine You can hear the outdoor magazine show in lington on news 9798 98.7 wldn you can hear us in Port here on wphm 1380 a.m. and you can hear us let’s see let’s go to let’s go north of the bridge let’s go to Mana wtq 1490 a.m. 95.3 FM this segment of outdoor magazine
Is brought to you by the Lynnwood Beach Marina and Campground Lynwood Beach can be your year- round sagona Bay fishing destination and your Mid Michigan tracker headquarters check them out online at Lynwood Beach marina.com that’s lywood Beach marina.com boats are heading out of Lynwood Beach right now they’re fishing
For walleye on sagona Bay as you get ready to kick off the season if you need to get your boat ready for the season or if you’re looking for a new boat or if you’re just looking for information Lynwood Beach Marina a great place again the website lywood Beach
Marina.com we’re talking now with Justin to of mucc mc.org Justin I find it interesting uh that you know earlier we were talking about this uh commercial fishing and guiding license you say that was a product of the process that you have at muc for letting your members dictate the
Dire you want to go mandate the direction you want to go now that commercial fishing and guiding was probably brought up at a convention years ago well you’re leading you’re coming into a convention again very soon right yeah we’re leaving uh some of our staff’s leaving for the Sue tomorrow and
The rest of us will be headed up Friday for our weekend convention any big issues on the uh agenda this time around Justin tons of them we have quite the smattering um we will be taking up aprs for the I don’t know several of time um we have a boat registration fee increase
Resolution on the agenda um we’ve got some coyote hunting stuff and we also have you know smaller more local or Regional issues like uh changing of changing some designations of certain parts of the asabo river so we we span the whole Gambit this year uh some things that come to my mind
The special mentored hunting bill yeah yeah so that was a product of last year’s convention um and what that is basically is we had some members that have a special needs son and they were explaining there’s a problem with current Michigan law where some kids can perform the physical tasks of hunting
Well adults too not just kids and but they’re not necessarily able to process the written hunter safety test so we have a bill dropping hopefully next week that would extend the mentored hunting license indefinitely for those special needs needs individuals um meaning that they would have to hunt within Arms
Reach under the direct control of a mentor um so that they can have they they’re able to hunt even Beyond um what the mentored license allows for them to hunt currently what about commercial fishing is there anything good at all on the commercial fishing front actually yeah um I I do have a
Little bit of good news on that so House Bill 518 dropped last fall that was terrible would have allowed for game fish to be caught in commercial Nets um conservationist across the state stepped up through our call to action sent 85,000 emails to the capital and basically killed that bill in its tracks
Um the good news is that we had been working with um uh representative Amos O’Neal he’s in he’s in Dem leadership over in Sagen um on a good commercial fishing Bill and that commercial fishing Bill modernizes the industry kind of updates a lot of the regulations uh the
Way the industry works but it keeps game fish out of those commercial Nets um that bill also hopefully dro next week um probably before they go in spring break for sure though is is our goal 85,000 emails that’s pretty impressive it uh it shut down some
Offices for a couple of days like I got yelled at by a couple legislators because they were unable to do some of the other function of their office as a result of conservationists across the state stepping in and saying that this bill is not acceptable I I love to hear that though
Because in today’s world so often we think that we as individual Outdoors men and women there’s nothing we can do it’s a big machine we’re working with you know DNR NRC legislature even muc all big you know organizations they in Lancing but to know that we actually do have an
Impact or we can that’s pretty cool it’s it’s very powerful and it’s it’s you absolutely can do it do not be afraid to act because you think that you will not your voice will not be heard as a result of this I heard from individuals across the state that they got FaceTime like
Face Toof face one-on-one time with their legislator as a result of them participating in our call to action so um you it is never too late to get involved you can always do something wow very cool Hey listen and something coming up this summer I mean it’s a ways
Off yet but I’m I’m I’m encouraging people to put it on their calendars Monday July 29th we’re having a golf outing at the West Branch Country Club and the cool thing about this is any proceeds we make are going to go to mu’s youth camp how cool is
That that sounds awesome to me the camp is a is a great place I think we’ve put through 60,000 kids over the years um they get Hunter Safety learn to shoot guns and bows and you know a lot of our board member actually my eye doctor is
Randomly an mucc Camp alumni so it is it is great we’re excited um that you’re going to do this for us we’re excited to be a part of it I like golf Alex smok and cigars so I’m going to be there excellent I look forward to that Monday
July 29th at the West Branch Country Club details to follow have a good convention let me know what comes out of it will you thanks Mike I will do all right Justin to of muc mcc.org that’s mcc.org we will uh take a break for the top of the hour when we come
Back I I’m going to talk with um one of the most well-known Wildlife biologists when it comes to Deer especially in the country John aoga is a retired DNR biologist but he’s still very much involved in Deer manag from a different perspective now I always enjoy those conversations and
Then we’ll wrap it all up with Wild game Chef extraordinaire Dixie Dave Miner that’s coming up in hour three of this week’s outdoor magazine time now for Michigan’s number one outdoor radio show Mike Avery’s outdoor magazine Mike Avery has covered the outdoors in Michigan for more than four decades and that tradition
Continues today outdoor magazine is brought to you by J Sporting Goods the Ider Insurance Group angler Quest pontoons the forward Corporation Primal outdoors security credit union offshore tackle Garber Chevrolet Rapid River knifeworks and by Michigan bran me now here’s Mike Avery well thank you Ken Hunter for that
Introduction and welcome to hour number three of this week’s outdoor magazine radio show here on the outdoor magazine radio network on more than 30 radio stations across the great state of Michigan and so glad to have you along with us you know it wasn’t always uh
Radio um how I made my living you know I used to be in TV news years ago and then had my own outdoor TV show and it was the it was the TV news experiences in that outdoor TV show that really I had a
Chance to to do a lot of cool things go a lot of very interesting places meet a lot of really interesting people but it was back in those days that I met Our Guest this hour his name is JN aoga and at the time he was working at the keno research station
Near shingleton in Michigan’s Upper Peninsula and it was my mentor Pete Jonas Pete knew everybody honestly Pete knew everybody in the outdoor industry in Michigan because Pete used to work uh with Morton F and he was a member of the Michigan outdoor writers association I mean Pete
Was just plugged in and dialed in and Pete introduced me to so many interesting and cool people including Fred Bear including Mort nef including JN aoga and I’m I’m thinking about deer hunting in Michigan and how it’s changed over the years and how like I personally have
Really lost my passion for deer hunting I’ve lost a lot of interest in deer hunting because I I just don’t care about all the junk that surrounds it these days the the the politics and the infighting and it’s just I don’t know it’s and if I was a up Deer Hunter the
Lack of deer would probably dissuade me from wanting to hunt as well but I thought you know with this deer management initiative thing that’s out there and we’ll talk about that in a minute and and deer hunting has be has become a year round deal here in
Michigan I thought it was time to check in with John um and see what his thoughts are because he has a very interesting perspective on White Tail management that the rest of us will never be able to to experience that firsthand so I called John up and I said hey can you
Give me a few minutes and he graciously agreed and he’s with us now on the outdoor magazine phone line John welcome back how are you I’m fine thank you thank you not getting any younger but I’m I’m doing okay none of us are John none of us are well don’t don’t for
Don’t forget I I spent 32 years with the uh DNR uh doing uh dear research then I spent another 30 years uh popular izing it and the the scientific material so it’s uh been a long ha and you and you’re still out there I mean you’re still I was thinking that you’re the
Beautiful books that you did you know white tail summer and spring and Autumn uh but I saw you’ve done a book since then John a hard cover book since then uh they’ve recopied some of the material uh oh they I I what happened is I I became Associated closely with deer and deer
Hunning and I well that was like I say 30 years ago and they they put they did put together a book on some of my articles okay it’s it’s been a number of years now but yeah that’s probably the one year referring to of course the
First one I wrote was white tail country which kind of ignited the the entire writing process you know uh for me but really it’s a long it’s a long story but in in a way it’s kind of kind of short uh back in the 1980s uh we the DNR or
The state went through some financial crisis and uh Keno Wildlife Research station that I was working at since 1964 was right on the top of the list to be eliminated to save money for the state and I came home one day and I told
My wife I said hey I don’t like this but we’re we’re GNA have to plan on on selling this place here and uh leaving we’re both born in Crystal Falls we’re both real strong you ersus so I said well we’re going to have to think about
Moving and she say I says we’re you know we’re we’re we’re suffering financial problems and she said you know what your problem is she says all you researchers do is talk to yourselves what she was referring to it just comes out in science in the science uh uh journals
That the public doesn’t know anything about and at da I mean she says the public doesn’t know the first thing about what you are doing so that initiated my my writing in a popular style and I was one of you know one of the very few biologists that did
Such a thing in those days and it would became very very popular and suddenly the DNR liked it so much they they took us off the list for for getting rid of but that’s how it happened you know isn’t it funny how wives have the ability to see through all that other
Junk and cut right to the source of things sometimes it is it is y they have Vision that’s a little different than uh on the male side I agree hey John let’s let’s talk about Keno I mean it’s it’s was was in my mind it was the Premier
White tail research station in the country am I overstating that I don’t think so I I don’t think you are it it started in 1952 actually I think they had about five biologists working there in the early days I came in 1964 but then it wasn’t very long before
The only biologists there were ver and I so uh from then on until verm retired then I retired that was it we only had two research biologists but we had we had nearly a I would say very close to a 100 technical research articles published uh from our our research there so we
Were we were contributing a lot of the early understanding of white tail beer from a scientific perspective but then then I when I like I say uh when I when I retired then I turned around I put it in popular form so I wound up publishing I don’t know four
Five seven six or seven hard covered books and a couple of soft ones but uh that was a now it’s kind of popular everybody seems to be writing a deer a book on deer but at the time that was it didn’t happen you know yeah but these
People writing books on deer these days John they didn’t have I this facility you had just for people who don’t know it was basically an enclosure so you had a cap captive population right yeah that the enclosure was my part of the study ver verm studies were mostly P confined here very very
Controlled I tried to in my enclosure a square mile I uh I worked out a program where I could every winter I could trap every deer that was in there and hold them in confinement and mark them visually with uh ear tags that I could reach uh read then release them
So I knew the history of these individual deer I know who they were when they were you know what year they were born who their offspring were and that type of thing so that gave me a a great deal of opportunity to change things uh uh as I wanted them to when
Because we trapped them every year so I could change that population how I wanted to we let it build to over I don’t know 140 per square mile or something to see what density did so we saw the density effects there because we were supplementally feeding them in
Addition to Natural feed but then we started playing with the population itself uh I eliminated uh all young males going into the population in the spring and only only mature males were in there so I could see breeding behavior and that type of thing and then
In subsequent years I took all the adult males out some Springs and put only yearling bucks back in there then I could look at the the result from that because each de each door that we trapped in the spring we would x-ray to see how many uh young They Carried because we were
Doing this in March so the fetuses were pretty good size then I developed techniques where I could make a very good estimate of when that D was bred and when she had her Offspring so you know we we we did things like that that no one else really had the popular you
Know the opportunity to do but meanwhile these Deer functioned uh rather normal in in their own habitat they did their own things they achieved their own territories uh they aggressed for food they aggressed for uh habitat occupation they they wondrous things you know and the things that you must have
Learned I I got to take a break here John so we’ll answer this after the break but I I think about the the the the insight and the knowledge you must have gained over the years how fascinating is that we’re talking with jogga retired DNR uh while wildlife
Biologist one of the best known white tail researchers in the country okay you hear about all these guys these days they’ve got TV shows and they write for all the magazines and stuff and that’s fine that’s well and good but do they have the same background as JN aoga I’ll
Tell you right now no they don’t they don’t uh we’ll take a break when we come back I want to talk with John and know we’ve established okay he is the man but I want to talk with them now after the break about where we are on wh tail
Management in Michigan today this new DMI this deer management initiative will this do any good are we on the right track or are we on the wrong track and what does deer hunting look like in Michigan in the future at least in the up we’ll find out that from Joga after
The break right here on outdoor Magazine you can hear the outdoor magazine show in manast on W mlq 97.7 FM let’s go down the coastline to mosan W kbz 1090 a.m. and you can hear us on the other side of the state in tals wios 1480 am 106.9 FM this segment of outdoor
Magazine is brought to you by Versa skins why buy a bunch of different sets of hunting clothes when you can buy one good quality set that is wind resistant water resistant and all you have to do if you want a different camo pattern is just snap on and zip on an outer shell
It takes I don’t know about a minute literally I timed it once it’s about a minute so the slogan is just change your skin for the season you’re in and it makes a lot of sense in fact when I was out on the River fishing the other day
And it was cold I had my Versa skins on there so it’s not just for hunting uh check them out online at versus skins.com that’s versus skins.com if you’re looking for big sizes I’m talking four five 6X versus skins if your s is your Source if you’re a saddle
Hunter uh versus skins makes settle hunting jackets as well the website versus skins.com that’s versus skins.com it is a michigan-based family-owned company and you know I love that we’re talking right now with JN aoga John knows more about white tailed deer than you or I do he knows more
About white tail deer than just about anybody John with that in mind as you look at white tail management specifically in the up here these days what do you see are we going the right direction or are we going the wrong direction there is no management no it’s it’s I don’t know I
Guess it’s all turned all political but you know you you got to look at our our deer population you know back back around the turn of the century here in the upper peninsula we had deer there were no deer in the restur of the country if you wanted to hunt deer in
1900 you had to come to the Upper Peninsula of Michigan well that of course has changed uh obviously we have deer widespread now but I think uh throughout I think numbers are going down of course they’re definitely going you know going down here we had uh as best estimated
Our population in the upper peninsula grew up to about 800,000 in uh the early 90s s then and since then it’s been disastrous we’ve had winners that we lost a lot of deer but I I think Bob deer hits it on hits it right on the head he says you know
Our population fluctuates up and down according to Winter weathers winter weather Winter s uh severity and the the quality of the Cedar and Hemlock stands determine deer welfare there’s no no out about it but our po our habitat our winter habitat is so bad so bad up here
Now and there is no management of it in fact uh forestry has Li through through through the years forestry has limited eliminated 97% of the hemlock in in hardwood St because Hemlock has very little uh uh value and if it’s if it’s taken out there you get a sugar maple
Or hard maple back in or so of something of real value look at look at look at the at monomon County the vast areas of Cedar that have been clearcut with no concern for Vi future re uh reproduction of a Cedar Swamp it’s it’s the areas are so large that they’re
Going to regenerate to tag Alder and Marsh Grass there isn’t going to be no deer yard there so and and the quality of what we’ve got left is just deteriorating with with with no organizized management you know what whatsoever so uh our our in fact our our deer numbers under my
Estimation before the white man even came here the best data I can find is that we had about 250,000 deer in Michigan’s Upper Peninsula uh and like I say by early 90s that that went up to about 8 at least 800,000 well since then it’s gone up and
Down up and down but the highs are getting uh lower and so are the lows so the overall the population going right down and I doubt very much today if we have very many deer than we did before the white man came uh up here so we’ve managed deer for over a hundred
Years we be managing deer in in the 30s and we have fewer deer now than when we started Ed so you know obviously we’ve got we’ve got some very serious problems uh I’m I’m I’m very pessimistic now every if every winter was like this winter our
Deer H would do fine we’re going to have we’re going to have a little blip next fall we’re going to have a few more deer it’s not you know although the Sportsman don’t blame wolves it’s they’re just a small factor uh following following a winner you can you can lose 70% of your
Fonds due to D malnutrition uh and uh it’s you know it’s it’s quality of the habitat the nutritional status of the of the do that’s going to govern our population and uh we can’t control the weather of course so we’re going to have up and downs but the quality of the deer habab
At that is going down steadily there there’s there’s just no doubt about it and I’m extremely pessimistic so you don’t think John that wolves are that big of a factor no no they take advantage of a situation I think they’re I think they’re they’re quite selective they’re like most predators are going to
Select the weak and the vulnerable the weak deer are the ones that are malnourished and the the vulnerable ones are the ones that don’t have adequate winter habitat it’s got you got to have the right cover and you got have adjacent food and with something like a
Like a like a wolf you have to have large areas now back in the 80s before we had before we had uh wolves we had 13 winners out of 15 that were mild that’s why that population built to extremely high in the early 90s but all those but they were there
Were deer yarding all over the place little patches of them and a could could buy with that but then once you had severe weather severe Winns all those little yarding populations disappeared and you went right back to your main yards and they’re not being managed not for de certainly well and
And listen I’m no expert but I even I can see that if you’re talking of a a habitat situation that’s something that can’t be corrected in the next five years you’re talking a longterm problem right you’re talking a very long long-term program you’re talking about a very uh thought out
Program and a dedicated program exactly uh you know Cedar can grow for 3 400 years it’s it’s a it’s a longterm longterm thing but it takes time to go uh now as as an example as an example when I came in 1964 we had uh relatively low deer
Populations in the up but but I had the petrol grade deer yard is my my my field study to begin with and it was an extremely severe winter it started in December and it ended the end of April I I run some surveys in that yard
And I figure I had 110 dead deer in one square mile wow and there were no wolves in those days the coyotes were eating them but they didn’t have to eat kill and he they had enough that were just dying and they they were feeding off the off off the
Carry in there but that that population then went under management a a strict management cutting program every year up until ah shortly after I retired late 90s and we had deer yarding in there the pro the program then ceased that was a forestry Wild life decision they no
Longer did the cutting in there there are no deer in there today there are no deer in that yard there today so when you say it’s a long-term proposition it is it’s something that you just don’t do overnight uh you’re you have to set up an extremely long program and stay with
It so I don’t I don’t think it’s possible I don’t think we’ll do it John I’m curious this this deer management initiative group that is designed to be I don’t know to at least give put into how we’re going to manage deer did you apply for that at all did I no no
No because I think because I think your input would have been very valuable in that no I I I did not I that just wasn’t my thing I I love I loved my research I had a lot of freedom uh but I did retire early I did
Retired at 55 but I could see the uh oh I could see the political thing coming the control and uh I I just I just didn’t agree with what with what I foresaw so it it has changed a great deal there is no there is no deer research in the
State now when I started you had the Kino station you had the hon Lake Station and you had the Rose Lake Station all there doing some deer research there’s there’s no field research of deer now well and that’s interesting because you know deer hunting has always been a big deal here
In Michigan but lately this past I mean with the it’s become almost a religion or has it always been that way John I think it’s always been that way but we’re we’re losing Hunters like mad here in the upper peninsula I think at our Peak when we had for 800,000 deer I
Think we had something like a 130 140,000 deer hunters we only have a about half that many now of course our deer population is is low and uh you it’s pretty how can you recruit new Hunters if they got to go sit out there sit on a stump for for two
Weeks and not even see a deer you know it’s not going to happen our younger Generations aren’t going to take to this kind of a kind of a thing uh it’s I I don’t see it I don’t see us replacing North Hunter and I don’t see the interest there in fact what what
About all the anti-gun legislation that’s going on I I don’t see anything that’s very optimistic for deer hunting I don’t see very anything very optimistic for hunting in general can I got to take another break can you stick around a few more minutes John I’d like to follow up on this I’m
Not going Anywhere Joga I love talking with John so we’ll take a break here at the outdoor m magazine show when we come back we’ll give Joga the coveted third segment look at when I get a chance to talk with somebody of the status of a Jon ooga and he’s got the time believe
Me I’m going to take advantage of it uh and then of course after that we will uh check in with my good friend Wild game Chef extraordinaire Dixie Dave Miner Dave was at our Trinity monitor Wild game dinner in auction last weekend he was our guest of honor and it was a
Pleasure to have him there and it’s a pleasure to have him on the radio show as well my name is Mike Avery this show is called magazine my website Mike a outdoors.com Mike outdoors.com my email address Mike Mike a outdoors.com don’t hesitate to reach out I’d love to hear
From you more from John aoga after the break right here on outdoor Magazine you can hear the outdoor magazine Show in Traverse City on wtcm 580 a.m. and you can hear us in Sagen on wsgw AM 790 and FM 100.5 I’m in the studios of wsgw right now I’m here with Charlie Roode Charlie doing a wonderful job as always and couple Vehicles out there Charlie
Charlie H they know they know that the uh Charlie Roode they know Charlie rud as a broadcasting Legend as do I this segment of outdoor magazine brought to you by reader Landscaping reader can take care of your lawn and property because it’s your nature and our nurture
Let reader create an outdoor getaway in your backyard as they have for me in fact the guys from reader were at my house just last week they were doing some winter season dormant pruning I got these trees at the corner of the house that just want to grow like crazy the
Guys from reader keep coming back and cutting them down well this not cutting them down cutting them back well they came back this winter season and they cut them back nice and they look great and the guys were there all day long two of them working hard as they always do
I’m telling you the reader Crews do a great job I would encourage you oh also listen to this the morning of our Trinity dinner I got a text from Paul Reader he said Mike I heard about your dinner can I offer up some gift certificates for the event yes Paul
Thank you very much that’s the type of people you’re dealing with when you’re dealing with reader Landscaping check them out online at reader landscaping.com that’s reader landscaping.com we’re wrapping up our conversation right now with j zoga j retired DNR wildlife biologist who for many years was in the in charge of the
Keno research station a facility that uh this country’s probably never seen anything like it so over that period of time John learned more about white tail deer maybe than anybody ever so John when I asked you what the future in your opinion what the future of deer hunting looks like in
Michigan what’s your answer well you’ll see a blipping deer herd you’ll have highs you’ll have lows but the lows are getting lower and so are the highs so we’re on a downward Trend there’s and it’s all controlled by uh winter habitat and winter weather you got to realize that during a severe
Winter and you get D malnourishment even if they don’t die they’re pregnant and they have fonds you’re going to lose 70% of those FS at Birth or soon after a malnourish d won’t even protect her fawns she’ll abandon them and those fawns will weigh like maybe 2 three PBS
They should weigh 7 8 pounds that’s what controls our deer her we have we have Mar starvation losses is in the winter of deer too and we have predation too but that loss of newborn fogs is far more significant than any other mortality factor I I I would think in the short
Term there’s good news this year though because the winter hasn’t been that rough right am I oh excellent yeah if every if every winter was like this our dear situation would be extremely different believe me I’ve never seen one like this uh here in here in Munising it’s uh rather
Unbelievable you know and this is this is one of those Winns where those deer are going to be all over the place uh not confined to uh traditional yarding cover but they’re going to have a lot of freedom uh so uh you’re going to see a
You’re going to see a blit but our population is is so low now that it’s not going to be a real obvious one next winter you know so are are next year of season is is is the Heyday of deer hunting in the up are those days gone for the foreseeable future
Absolutely they are gone yes they are in fact you know it’s coincidental but deer populations across the United States in general are slowly declining they have declined rather sharply here in the up they’ve declined sharply in northern Wisconsin they declined sharply in northern Minnesota and it’s multiple factors
Obviously but in those declines it’s strictly winter weather and winter habitat now why I suppose in other areas uh disease factors and other things are taking place but uh here here in in northern Michigan uh it’s it’s winter habitat quality and malnourishment of deer John always a pleasure to talk with you
I I love your Insight I respect your opinions I respect your experience and thanks for all that you’ve done over the years well thank you I wish Hunter is a lot of luck but I’m I’m like I say I’m not very optimistic well and when when you speak
Jonaz zoga about deer the world listens or at least we should listen yeah well I hope so but I’m rather doubtful like I said I I’ve written seven books and 600 magazine articles and uh and what do my local neighbors tell me it’s Wolves it’s all wolves that are the
Problem they don’t understand deer they just don’t understand there I don’t know if they want to maybe not I don’t know well I do find it interesting John when you talk about the Wolves because down state that’s what I hear from people it’s the Wolves it’s the Wolves it’s the
Wolves so to get your perspective that’s a visible thing why don’t they talk about the the malnourish thousands hundreds of thousands of fonts that might die dur following a tough winner they don’t see them that’s why you know yeah John always a pleasure you and I could talk
For two hours but I’m out of time I got to let you go take care of yourself and I’ll look forward to talking to you again appreciate talking to you so take care all righty John ooga here on the outdoor magazine show you will not talk
With a man well let me rephrase I have not talk with a man and do not anticipate ever talking with a man who knows as much about white tailed deer as JN ooga we’ll take a break when we come back we’ll wrap it all up with Wild game Chef extraordinaire Dixie Dave Miner
Right here on outdoor Magazine welcome back to outdoor magazine sure appreciate you being along with us this week wouldn’t be able to do this without you and I do enjoy it you know that I have been U blessed to work with Wild game Chef extraordinaire Dixie Dave miners for so many years I was also very
Fortunate and blessed to be able to see Dave and his wife Terry at our big Trinity monitor Wild game dinner in auction uh last week Dave was our guest of honor he’s with us now of course on the outdoor magazine phone line because he helps us wrap up each week’s show
David welcome back how are you pretty good Michael and yourself I’m doing real good it was so nice to see you guys there Dave it was uh it was really nice you’re looking good the uh your back uh feeling a little better surgery worked out pretty good yep yep yep yep the
Surgery helped out quite a bit and uh I’m feeling a lot better good good good now you good and and you will be are you going to join us on the 20th for our Wednesday Night Live at the Lumberjack restaurant in West Branch yep yep we got a
Reservation right away as soon as we heard about it I think we have eight people coming well okay so you’ve got a group of people there let me ask you this um how would you feel about doing some cooking that night I could you’d be they let me use their kitchen well
Here’s the deal I just um I just got a text from Amel Russo um of The Lumberjack restaurant and he posed this question to me he said do you think Dave would be interested in being a guest Chef that night oh boy yeah I could go up and talk to him and
Meet him and see what kind of food they got there and what we could come up with I think that is a great idea now I don’t know what amel’s got in mind I I you know but but he threw out the option that if you want to be a part of that
Event uh not just a not just a guest but but you know cooking that night he’d love to work with you oh boy that would be wonderful I think I would enjoy that a lot oh that would be outstanding oh this is great so people can join us Wednesday night the 20th at
The Lumberjack restaurant for our usual deal but also once again get a chance to taste some Dixie Dave cooking at The Lumberjack I think this is a win-win I think so too I’d have a good time at it oh that’s outstanding so uh so you
And am will talk and you let me know what you come up with and whatever you guys come up with I’m in okay that sounds great thanks a lot for the offer oh that’s from Amel I mean I support it 100% but he came up with the idea and I
Think it’s a great idea me too thank you for well that is so cool so listen um yeah so we’ll plan on this so just to promote the event again it is Wednesday night July 20th at The Lumberjack no sorry March 20th yeah here we go March 20th Charle looked at
Me like July 20th what are you talking about it’s Wednesday March 20th at The Lumberjack restaurant in westbranch the forward Corporation Lumberjack restaurant in West Branch reservations are required call 989 343 0892 9893 430892 for reservations there’s no cost for the reservation but of course you’ve
Got to buy your own dinner and we just find out found out that in addition to the wonderful Lumberjack meals Wild game Chef extraordinaire Dixie Dave Miner is also going to be part of the event cooking for us once again and David honestly I could not be more excited
About this me too it’s been a while since I’ve been in the kitchen you up to it can you handle it oh I’m sure I can can you remember how to do it oh absolutely I have to call find out what uh what he’s got in mind
Yeah yeah and I don’t know what the details are but just to know that you’re going to be there with us and uh and and and Amil used the term guest chef and I I I just I couldn’t be more excited about it oh that’s great thank you
Michael I Didn’t Do It Amel did it okay I’ll call him I’ll give him a holler today all right that sounds good oh I’m looking forward to this Dave Wednesday March 20th at The Lumberjack in westbranch again the number 989 3430 892 for reservations if nobody picks up
Uh keep keep calling let it ring and ring and ring because eventually it’ll get picked up if nobody’s there uh so Dave you’re going to be there with us also I’ve got Brad D Mr angler Quest is going to join us uh I’m working on some other advertising Partners well I don’t
As well I don’t know exactly who’s going to be there possibly Paul Phillips extreme long range shooter extraordinaire will join us as well and Dave you’ve been at these before they’re a lot of fun oh yeah I had a ball somebody at our table they won stuff too
There the last time so this is great we had listen the Trinity dinner by the way I I I I want to talk about this a little bit the Trinity dinner this year was a little different because you weren’t our main chef but you were a guest of honor
And I still I thought the event was wonderful Dave and I appreciate the fact that you guys could join us it was just a it’s just a well-run machine the folks at Trinity our volunteers do a wonderful job and I’m so glad you could join us
For that they do though it’s just a pleasure to watch how things go in such an orderly fashion well I’m glad they look that way because I can tell you they don’t always feel like it but as long as it comes across that way that’s all that
Matters okay all right David listen I’m so excited about this I look forward to seeing you Wednesday March 20th at The Lumberjack as our guest Chef we’ll talk more about it next week thank you thank you David again the number to call 989 343 892 989 34389 two four reservations you just
Heard Wild game Chef extraordinaire Dixie Dave Miner is Going to Be Our Guest Chef that night again what that involves I don’t know this just came up literally uh 10 minutes ago I just found out about the opportunity I said amble do you mind if I pose this to Dave on
The A and he said go for it and I think Dave liked the idea 9893 430892 for reservations to join us for Wednesday Night Live at the Lumberjack restaurant in West Branch my name is Mike Avery this is outoor magazine my email address Mike at Mike ay
Outdoors.com I’d love to hear from you have a great week my friends
