Co-hosts Kathy Bissell and Gary Van Sickle interview Kenneth Duncan, CEO of Renegade Golf about why he and his partners decided to start a golf ball company when there is such strong competition from two or three industry leaders. Duncan explains the name of the MBU ball explaining MBU means First of Its Kind in Nigerian, and that is why it was selected as the name for their debut golf ball. The MBU has performance characteristics that are similar to those of the leading brands but at a lower price. Renegade Golf is located in Atlanta. website: http://renegade.golf
[Applause] hi my name is Kathy Bissell welcome to the Golf Show 2.0 one of the ladies on Shark Tank I think it was Barbara corkran said that this is the very best time for anybody to start a new business and our guest today has done just that Gary why don’t
You introduce him yeah in that same because of her I’ve now started my own slide Ru company so we’ll see how that works out uh today we’ve got Kenneth Duncan CEO of renegade Golf and you know what could be easier than trying to be a the little guy
Breaking into the golf ball business which is ruled by the Behemoth like tyus and Callaway and Taylor Made Kenneth is based in GE in Atlanta he’s a University of Georgia grad and I think the obvious question is golf balls Kenneth you look at all those big companies is like how are you gonna
David and Goliath how how do you do this yeah thank thank you all for having me that’s a that’s a million or maybe billion dollar question depending on how big you think these companies really are I mean the the question I always get is what would make you think to go against
Titleist I mean it’s not even golf ball companies it’s Titleist I mean we’re talking golf we’re talking prov1 and ABX and for the longest time I Shi away from any type of comparison you know what is your golf ball compared to uh bridgstone B series or I I avoided that t- word
Like the absolute play cuz I didn’t want that Target on our back but I think we’ve we’ve embraced it now we’ve embraced the fact that there’s a lot of room in the space um the golf ball space for a new brand there’s a lot of room in
Golf for a grow um you know our kind of goal is to grow the game make the game more affordable and accessible and I think while doing that there’s a lot of opportunity to find new players and players that don’t have extensive brand loyalty who might find a name a company
Like Renegade to be the worthy alternative to those giants well go back to the very birth of renegade how did you and your friends uh get started I know it was started with golf bags but tell us tell us just what was the first step yeah I mean
We thought we were going to be having 10 different companies that all made passive streams of income and golf bags was just one idea we were going to actually sell golf bags on Amazon um whale say we want to undercut the the golf bag competition Market because golf bags have gotten relatively expensive
That’s one of the first purchases that you get when you’re playing the game you know you’ll buy clubs in a bag so you know how would we make this game more affordable with golf bags is the answer um but as that name Renegade started to grow and as we started to really think
About what it meant to be Renegade what it means to defy the status quo the brand itself took off larger than just a an Amazon company or just a company that you can move golf bags on Sor to have a true following people who really identified what we wanted to do in the
Space um and we realized that we couldn’t fulfill that with golf bags because it’s not really a repeat buy it’s people will buy it they’ll they’ll see you often but they’ll kind of forget about it and your impact can be kind of stopped right there I got I still got
Golf bags older than you yeah I I believe it and and you have no real incentive to get new ones if you start playing less you know you you’re playing less than you were before then that golf bag stays good for a long time you might
Lose 10 balls when you play but you don’t lose your bag um guy let’s not let’s not get into that yeah not that was a bad day yeah well I’ve had two stolen from me in Atlanta in the last about three and a half years so out of
My trunk so the bags do go by oh yeah us us a lost my whole set coming home from Augusta one year oh man they made it to Charlotte and then they magically disappeared like Lucky Charms somebody I had a set lost in in the San Francisco
Airport and I just kept calling and calling and calling and finally they turned up but all of the golf balls were gone I’ve heard people talk about that happening with TSA now but yeah they they’ll go in there they’ll find a thing or two so yeah so anyways B we
Interrupted you to have fun bags are not a repeat customer business so they’re not but but balls balls are so know I think a lot of golf companies seem to be birthed by Titleist I know how that happens no Snell and and US similarly we had an individual from Titleist who came
Along and said hey you know I understand this golf ball process if you guys consider looking at balls as as one of your next products and he really took us through the entire process that Consulting on the design on the inside the composition on the manufacturing process quality control all the things
That really make those big Brands stand out and it allowed us to did you meet him at the show last year where how did you run into him no he actually had one of our golf bags he just happened to be a longtime customer and and sort of said
Hey like I love what you all are trying to do in the space through bags that you can do it just as well through balls and we had been looking at balls for about a year before then but you can’t start a golf ball Company by going on Alibaba or
Finding some Chinese supplier you you gotta really find there there are a handful of quality suppliers in the in the industry that make no especially if you want a thermoplastic urethane ball that can make the quality you want to really stand out for that we stand for
And we got lucky and found that and now it’s been a race ever since the manufacturers in Taiwan that you’re using right now and and I’m I’m neglect I’m uh neglected to mention the big the big one is you are the first holy owned uh blackowned company to have a ball
Approved for competition by the USGA so that’s that’s really a big deal that tells you a the balls are quality and uh be you know what you’re doing so congrats on that thank you for that I mean we we didn’t talk about that for a
Long time time we when we we’re like you know do we want to be a black company or a blackowned company what does that mean but I’ve embraced it so much recently because know I started off in the first te program when you go back to people
And they look at what what life looks like in golf no of course there’s the Tiger Woods being a professional but just the ability to inspire SM hey you can become a CEO and you can create a golf ball maybe there’s a new a golf club that comes out in 10 years maybe
It’s the next foot Joy company but just opening up the horizons for what’s possible for a lot of like Inner City Youth and golfers who are imagining what jobs look like starting a golf ball company probably wasn’t on the radar of anybody you know three four five years
Ago it might have been crazy to do so but now when I speak I can pour back into a lot of people who are saying you know there’s room to to dream and innovate and imagine yourself alongside the brands we play every day so I’ve embraced the first black own concept we
All love we all love Underdog stories and we all want to help under dog stories and I think you got that going for you we had a an expert on golf ball composition oh yeah John what was his name Gary anyway he had worked for the big ball companies and he had
Recently switched and was working for Encore okay we started talking about all the inside stuff of the golf ball and he was explaining to us how depending on you know you can vary the stuff that’s inside to give the golf ball certain characteristics so I think you know
Whoever it is that you spoke to you your ball must be designed to do a certain thing so you know what primarily were you going for were you going for like distance or were you going for feel or yeah describe describe your uh you got a couple miles of golf balls why
Don’t you to run through them Kenneth so our our primary focus is feel across all our golf balls so when you design a golf ball the characteristics change based on the player performance but at the end of the day every player wants the ball to
Feel good to them so a lot of people say is your golf ball soft well naturally when you have a three-piece TPU golf ball it’s going to be soft feeling for somebody um you know if you’re if you’re swinging at a lower swing speed and you’re playing a very high compression
Golf ball you don’t really have the ability to compress enough so it feels super soft inversely if a PGA Tour player took a ladyes Model golf ball and hit it it feel like a Nerf ball to them so you know there’s a varying levels of core compression in a golf ball which
Really drive that feel to a player and we want all of our golf balls to feel great to somebody so our first golf ball the U that this a series of golf balls all of the U line and that word means first of its kind in Nigerian Evo tribe
Our goal was to make that ball kind of for everybody it wasn’t too stiff where it would be a ball that that you know elite players would would would play only but it wasn’t too soft where you’re going to have kind of people saying wow this is super super spinny um that ball
Was a great one-size fits-all option but you know when you start looking at Junior golfers and and know maybe older golfers who don’t have that swing speed that ball still felt a little bit firm to them even though it’s soft to a lot of people so coming out with a softer
Compression of 75 core compression was our uo black that gave people the opportunity to experience our products in a whole new light people who weren’t swinging really fast could then see oh wait this is the same cover the same design on the golf ball but softer and
Now this feels better to me this is a ball it feels good it launches higher with it’s still same the same performance um and then after we did that you know we have the ball for recreational players our newest release is really designed to bring us into the
Market of the elite player they typically want a ball that’s lower spin um so you see the balls there so we started off with the red the red packaging that was the one siiz fits-all then everybody like hey I want a little bit softer we went black and now our
Newest golfball the Trey is actually an option that’s really designed kind of for your high-end player looking for low launch off the te but High um High spin when they desire it um and that’s really what the the the best players in the world are looking for now so I have our
U Trey here I and Trey is spelled TR instead of so that’s upside down I mean that ball really is an OP really is an opportunity for us to expose again to more culture um in African-American Greek life a lot of times the Trey is a
Third person of a line um so you have your your Ace or your deuce and your Trey so we have our third ball of our line it kind of celebrates and pays homage to a lot of our cultural ties but also you know tr3 is kind of catchy so
Um they’re all they’re all soft for somebody great feel um but that’s a really good question because a lot of people don’t really understand how core compression dictates how you feel how you perceive a ball to be um the difference between a cast urethane and a thermoplastic urethane there’s a lot of
Um a lot of time we spend kind of educating on that did so when so when people do ask you the dreaded titlist question you know what what’s your ball most like what what answer do you give them is it is it the veloc not the
Velocity or what yeah what do you tell them I tell them I hate that comparison first I I say say it’s tough comparison I mean there there are about five balls in the market that are that are C orane balls and we acknowledge that cassane is a different material not it’s a better
Material it’s a different material um the prob1 line the tp5 line I believe there’s maybe a Wilson ball and one other one but there’s very very few balls that are C urethane they do have a distinctly different feel coming off your Club face than a thermoplastic
Urethane ball does but a lot of the highest quality balls ever made or TPU um so people that switch star ball from the our Inu our regular ball they switch from prov1 they say it has similar performance characteristics we test against prov1 so we see that the performance is similar um you’re getting
The similar performance the field just may be slightly different on the two of them um our Inu black I like the chrom soft is probably one of the most well-known golf balls ever created the U black is very similar to what you would imagine a chrom soft being um you know a
Lot of people ask about Kirkland I think those balls tend to have a little bit of a higher spin profile I’m not really made for a better or Elite player but I think our U black is more similar to a chrom soft the U is sort of their their
Prob1 comparison and we released the U tray coming out in two months we’re hoping that it can fill that void that is left by the prov1x or tp5x or those kind of X balls um but I tell them I hate the comparison I think the C in
Thermoplastic they stand alone but um I embrace it now you know if you want toy compare performance um you’ll find the performance be very similar I think everybody knows that the Kirkland brand is Costco but in case they don’t it is you’re now informed good on Costco they
Are you know in the race to be first best and cheapest they’re the cheapest that’s why they sell out at Costco so fast because half the guys who play golf don’t care what they play with because you’re going to lose it after four holes anyways yeah why spend a lot of money on
A muffler that you’re going to lose after four holes yeah Kenneth what how much golf did you play after you went to the first te and I assume learned how to play golf were you on a a golf team any place or so I actually did play high
School golf I went to high school in Milwaukee Wisconsin same high school with skip Kendall um played High School golf I’m actually was looking to play college golf I was looking at West Point Military Academy it was my number one school option for a long time but
Somebody didn’t tell me you have to actually be in the military after that for for quite a while I was like wow this is this a pretty good commitment like you know the golf part and West Point is amazing it’s such a one of the most beautiful campus I’ve ever set foot
On but as far as committing at 17 to be in the military for eight years four years of school plus four years after I chickened out a little bit so I ended up going to University of Georgia um which I don’t even call that a college golf
Team it’s basically like a little mini tour of its own um so I I emailed coach hack and asked about you know walk- on positions with that golf team but that doesn’t really exist at a school like Georgia um I think I was I think I was going there at
The time I don’t know if it was a years where it was Harris English and Hudson Swafford um both there at the same time but I’m pretty sure in about foure stretch while I was there they probably brought out about five PJ tour players okay so it just kind of tells the level
Of competition that was going on at Georgia that time and now those guys are all on tour you know you have the Chris Kirks and the Hudson sord and and in sep straa was right around the time I was there so all these guys were just they’re all tour cards that was a
Competition so I didn’t play in college um but really got a chance to play more after I graduated I’m playing more recreationally I played about a six handicap so the goal is to maybe do a little bit competitive golf now that I’m a a full-time golf industry person I
Just gotta get out and and just hit around just soon as soon as you get a job in the golf industry there goes all your rounds of golf you lose it’s crazy I played three rounds of golf in the last four months and I and I thought I’d
Be playing more than ever I’m at golf a lot and around golf but it’s just you know even a PGA show last year I I left a little early like a lot of people do you just okay maybe know that second day I’ll go play around Third Day play
Around well this year I was at a booth know during the whole time where everybody’s playing golf so it’s a different Dynamic but I enjoy it and you and Friday morning you had to make an appearance on Golf Channel as I recall on Golf Channel it was it was a really
Nice this is our second year row on Golf Channel um last year we were at Steve Browski um and this year we had a really awesome interview um this one was cool because really know just being at the PGA show um for a company like ours is is an accomplishment you know sometimes
We want to look ahead to where we want to go and where we want to see ourselves um but there’s not a lot of companies that that even have the opportunity to be in the equipment section now we weren’t close close to to tit list and
Those people we were in the same area just to be in the same room to have the same conversations it it was a honor and no Golf Channel highlighted that we actually were featured um with Damon hack and enan Lynch a couple weeks later on Golf Channel on Waste Management coverage those those
Nice guys we they had a four or five minute special on Renegade then and then obviously um some golf um some Sports Illustrated coverage too was neat so we’ve had a good couple of weeks um just really continuing to kind of ride that high of the PGA show and some of the
Stuff we’re trying to do in the space and now you’re you’ve hit rock by you’re here with us and now I’ve hit I’ve won D Golf Show capital D my mom lives in Columbus Ohio um so when they say the the they mean the Ohio State Ohio State
University I lived in Columbus for seven years and I had gone to the University of Illinois so I always prayed for somebody to beat Ohio State and I didn’t care who it was it wasn’t gonna be you wasn’t gonna be you huh when she said University of Illinois of course she
Actually meant Illinois high school as the incredible there was a house uh two two or three blocks from where I lived and I mean those Ohio State people are really serious about Ohio State and about their football this thing had a blockco painted on the garage door like
With a little Buck Eye Design at the top of it wow and my neighbor had uh a guest room with like Ohio State wallpaper and it was is completely amazing they’re over the top there they’re serious about it tell you that house was in that house was in an Arbor Michigan it wouldn’t
Last 15 minutes serious fire burnone Buckeye house so that so that’s what’s funny with my mom being there so my mom and dad both went to University of Michigan so my mom a huge Michigan fan so she waves her Michigan flag prow while in Columbus area and then of course now I
Grew up in Wisconsin so I was in Buckeye or in Wisconsin Badger territory so got the big 10 kind of surrounded but I was I was actually GNA go after West Point Wisconsin Madison was my Top Choice um but I visited there in like late November and that’s just a terrible
Place to be in November It’s Cold Lake Mendoza is blowing off of the coast so I had to get somewhere warm so so Georgia was a better option I think and I probably would wouldn’t have this golf company today if I attended Wisconsin honestly well the bright about November
In madis is that January and February are way worse they’re worse right it’s getting we learned at the show that yeah Kenneth went to nickol nicolay high school in Glen Glendale Wisconsin the northern suburb that was where I had bought my first house when I was working
At the sports department at the mil Milwaukee Journal I was a Glendale resident so wow we almost would have crossed pass if it if I’d been 30 years later we keep getting we keep getting all these guests and then I find out they’re all from Wisconsin and I think
That Gary’s got some kind of a plan some kind of a super Happ accident under and one of the and the first guy I ran into on demo day was skip Kendall skip Kendall yeah kendel who I covered on the PJ tour years ago so I’ve never met him ever haven’t met
Him but I’ve heard multiple people had been in industry for a long time say like Nicol a like that’s where skip went I’m like why don’t we know Skip although fun story my college roommate um his name was John Beck his dad was Chip Beck
So I was I knew a lot about college golf so I actually was at University of Georgia um my freshman year rooming with um chip Beck’s son so well his his father is just the nicest man he really nice I hope chip sees this I’m gonna
Make sure chip gets this podcast but you know 59 don’t you yeah Mr 59 right there he’s a guy um you know University of Georgia guy as well so you know that a little bit before my time but um you know it’s it’s neat to to really have
That connection um I still he we all used to Marvel at his positivity and I remember Paul asinger who was buddies with chip just going on he’s so positive you know he could be out there his dog could get run over by a truck and he’d
Go and he’d be going yeah I got run over by a truck but look how good he looks lying there in the street he looks straight line you know he’s just he was Mr positive and he was you know one of everybody’s favorites interviews because he is is a nice man
He’s amazing to the the ren right renate so what’s your master plan are you just going to sell this online to Consumers is is it going to be in stores yes what’s the next part of the business plan we are working through the master plan I mean it’s we started off thinking
We were going to be the next bit you know we’re going to D to see it up and we’re going to be online only but we’ve found a lot of success with a lot of customers who want to see that ball at their local shops um so our second phase
Of growth was moving into local Pro Shops know we’re probably about 15 to 20 Pro Shops all across the country from DC to Florida to Texas Ohio Michigan we’re kind of scattered around the place but the ultimate goal really was to have that that validation of the big box
Retail um so having the conversations with your PJ tour Superstores um starting those conversations with your Dick Sporting Goods and not necessarily because you know retail is the holy GP I mean I think there’s pros and cons of retail versus D Toc but I think in this space where credential isation is so
Important it just means a lot to be there next to those other brands know when when people see that they have those options they have an affordable option they have an option of a brand that has a story that they can connect to it’s just powerful to be there next
To them um we’re currently in golf um um Carl’s Golf Land and I think we’ve had a lot of success there you know we’ve sold out of that store multiple times over um and that’s given us some of that affirmation and that you know we’re in the right path um golfballs.com has also
Been very very successful for us um obviously they specialize in customize golf ball so as we start to do more tournaments and we start to grow our footprint across the country there’ll be more demand of that there um but those are two big golf players but obviously there’s still some bigger players we’d
Love to see ourselves in coming soon well you know the PGA Superstore is headquartered in Atlanta Roswell Georgia so before my nickola days I actually went to high school in Georgia for two years in Centennial High School in Roswell so I was probably 5 minutes away from their headquarter building um my parents
Still have a house in Roswell Georgia about 5 minutes away from their headquarter buildings um so so I’m very familiar there I’m connect closely with their team so doesn’t get you a a meeting with Jill Spiegel the head of PGA Tour Superstores you your parents live there you’re from there come
On it’s the I’m from everywhere apparent I’m from Wisconsin I’m from Michigan I’m from but you know my my parents live literally five minutes away from their flagship store in Roswell so I’m familiar and I see a lot of that team at know events and stuff across the AA so
It’s a matter of time I’m I’m super excited we’re GNA be in P I’m gonna speak it into existence we’ll be in pj2 or superstore the next couple of months and then from there we want to do successful there I think getting there used to be the goal now that we’ve had
So much success over the past year or two getting to destinations isn’t our goal you know we want to exceed customer expectations we want to build you know Connections in the community and really give them a brand they can root for us no Gary kind of said like be that
People’s brand and kind of be the Underdog Story so well I we we talked at the show and I love the fact that you know you know some of Charlie sifford’s family and if you got some likeness rights that goes along with that uh there’s nobody who doesn’t like Charlie
Seford in my in my knowledge uh you can’t go wrong with any kind of affiliation with him on a brand Here We Go There It Is guy right there so this this is my favorite box here for a lot of reasons first off you know we
Speak about the pronunciation of U so a lot of people you know is it the mbu U but really they paying that homage to the Nigerian tribe and also giving information about it and also know celebrating Charlie no if you try hard enough anything can happen now that was
One of his quotes but that’s kind of the mentality we take when looking at growing this golfball in an industry that I hate the m word but in a lot of ways it’s monopolized by a couple big brands there’s two or three brands that that run maybe 80 plus% market share um
So I mean if you try hard enough Anything Can Happen um and what was special for us is that in that sleeve of golf balls um for that Inu black you know we do have instead of having the number one we have the number 61 on all the first leades and that’s to
Commemorate the year when Charlie cfer got his PJ tour card so so no 61 two three four the player num so Charlie cfer Jr texted me just yesterday we were talking about him golfing in Florida he’s at the PGA show and um we’re in a golf course that his it’s his home Golf
Course up in Ohio so we’ll go up there and play together we played together a few times and those types of relationships really make all this stuff really come full circle um the family ties and know the line moving through um history um because honestly two years
Ago I wasn’t familiar with the name Charlie cfer I was a 28- year old 28y old golfer in the industry and when they asked me who are your role models of course it was Tiger Woods and you know Steph Curry played golf and Cameron Champ but to learn the names you know
Charlie cord John shippen Lee Elder Calvin Pete and really understand conceptualize what they meant to golf history not just African-American golf history was powerful so I love the connection to cord I love the fact that we can really continue his legacy on we give a portion of proceeds from every
Sale of that golf ball back to his scholarship and his name’s sake so all of that really is a part of what we do and kind of how we build bigger Community you know as a consumer if I’m walking through the store whatever it is and I see that picture of Charlie cord
On the front of the box I’m stopping to look at that yeah you know I I’m probably not going to see the bottom of the Box until I I buy it but if it’s on the front that would be an attention getter and that 61 numbering thing is
That that is that is cool yeah no yeah we enjoy it but the front is interesting it is it does make you stop so one thing we had on the front you know it’s the it’s the Atlanta Skyline so we we our one of our slogans is for the culture um
We’re unapologetically about know promoting the fact that we’re from Atlanta Atlanta has a lot of influences obviously East Side Golf is from Atlant and a lot of those cultural influences do permeate into golf so while the the front of the boxes is Caff is the back I
Think when you you’re like huh what is this kind of like this isn’t a regular golf box here it’s different like what are these guys talk about so maybe maybe you flip around in the back and say oh okay so and that’s kind of our goal with
Our packaging and our design you know we want to kind of build and design something makes the customer kind of stop for a second and then maybe turn that box over well if you see a new product you definitely stop and look at I mean everybody who is in golf or plays
Golf or knows golf if they go into one of the the stores or their local golf shop whatever it is if you see something that’s a new brand you’re gonna at least stop and look at it and if there’s something on the front or the back of
The box you go who are these people where did they come from and oh okay heard of yeah I got a friend golf junk I got a friend who such a golf junk that if there’s three PGA Tour stores in Atlanta say during the week if he’s there for tournament or whatever he’s
Going to go to each one just to see what they it might be might be one item somewhere that’s different you know so yeah we’re we’re all curious and that’s and that’s what we want I mean we want curi curiosity and then we have the reviews to back it up
You know most of our stuff is online so if you do research Renegade golf you’ll see you know hundreds of reviews from thousand thousands and thousands of customers who are all saying you know this is a good ball you know it’s not a fluke um and we have to just continue
That momentum of Dev validation because ultimately the customer drives a lot of success you know we can Market as much as we want to but if if you play the ball and you enjoy it you’re likely to tell somebody else or give some away and
Try it again if you hit it the first time you know we’re gonna have a hard time catching anybody nevertheless Titleist if your first time playing you don’t enjoy that experience um so that’s why we focus on education too if you play our U golf ball you should playing
The U black and your first time hitting it you don’t have that rich experience ases this ball feels good to me we want to make sure we get you in the right ball the first time so we don’t have any customers lost on playing the the quote
Unquote wrong ball so what we focus I tried it out in 42 degree weather here in Pittsburgh uh and since I couldn’t even feel my hands I couldn’t really I didn’t really feel nothing feels yeah there will be further experimenting done but uh I’ve already lost I’ve already
Contributed you know you want to leave little Easter eggs AB they look in the weeds and they go oh Renegade you know it’s a it’s a gorilla form of advertising you know what it’s time for Gary oh it’s sign for the Shameless plug yes well we’re busy doing a Shameless
Plug for Renegade golf we do it for the Golf Show 2.0 subscribe it’s free click on like and even if you don’t like us click on like just help us out that’s all with no reason reason just nothing will happen to you just do it so Gary
Where where can my where can all of our fans find the Golf Show 2.0 if I I want to it’s on YouTube We’re on YouTube click the Golf Show 2.0 Kathy’s also got a website the Golf Show the holf show.com okay uh not a lot of you know brand new content on there
But there are a few of my ravings on there and some of her stories so you can do that after get done with everything else then I get it uploaded to yeah that’s not a priority but uh but YouTube people want to find the Renegade golf Renegade Golf and the M pronounce
The the ball again for us the embo okay two syllables U I knew I was doing it about to do it wrong where can they give them the website where can they find the ball Kenneth so come check us out at www. renegade.com nope Renegade know I don’t know where that’ll
Take you exactly um and also on social media we’re at renegade.row if you look at this this R that’s pretty cool it’s a pretty cool R they’ve got some hoodies and if I was younger I would I would be wearing I don’t think I’m not a hoodie guy at my age
But and he still got some golf bags that are reasonably priced so abolutely go for the balls stay for the hoodies or vice versa I don’t know that’s our thought process y thank you so much it was such a pleasure to meet you and to hear your story yeah thank you all defy
What defy what’s this what’s the slogan defy the status quo defy the status quo I was gonna say join the Rebellion that’s not right join the Rebellion def the status quo that is one we talked about though we got a couple more coming on the pipel hung up on all the
Marketing stuff so we have a dream the fun part well yeah I I pay people for that now so unfortunately I don’t get as much of the creativ they tell me I’m not that creative but you got a lot of good content Gary you had a lot of good stuff
I appreciate you all both having some time to chat um every time I talk to Gary I get something new from it I’m okay like I got a new idea something didn’t say they’re all great ideas no good ideas ex we got some good stuff we
Got some stuff we’ll use stuff we won’t it’s just great to have those conversations and that’s really what we need to continue to grow the game it’s just different schools of thought um that we can all be here from all different parts of the country chatting
About Golf and and expanding the game is is what we’re here for so hopefully you guys got as much as I got from it but I appreciate [Applause] it
