LIV GOLF just lost a Major Winner…so what’s next?

LIV Golf was very close to signing another Major winner, when suddenly the breakthrough deal simply “fell apart,” leaving many wondering where do we go from here?

In this week’s podcast we’ll break down what happened, and talk about what this means for the future of LIV Golf, the PGA TOUR, and Jon Rahm’s new LIV team.

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Okay this is a story we’ve been following very closely all week because it appeared that we were on the cusp of yet another 2023 major winner making the jump over to live but just as of this morning just a couple of hours ago we’ve got confirmation that that deal has

Quote fallen through but this leaves us wondering a lot of things first of all what does that mean for lives ability to poach those big names you know just like they got off the back of John Rah what does that mean for PGA Tour and its retention and what does this mean for

John ROM who’s trying to build a team with just a few weeks left before the season kicks off because Windam was supposed to be the big name who was headed to John ROM’s team there is a lot for us to unpack here like and we’re

Going to talk in a few minutes like we want to talk about this first but we’re also going to get into John ROM’s team and and there’s another big story on the back end of this and it has to do with some really big upand cominging names as

Well not just the established names right right like we saw with wendam Clark but let’s kind of like kind of fall go back a little bit and talk about like where this all started and uh where we were like I said kind of patiently waiting and just kind of waiting to see

How this plays out was there are a couple of accounts that have kind of been at the Forefront of breaking a lot of the Liv news flushing it was one of them there’s a couple others and and largely what these accounts are is they’re run by ex tour players or people

Who are very close to the tour speaking to these guys directly and we have to now give them that that credibility because like I said they’re the ones who spoke out about the the romal they nailed it on the ROM deal way before the

Rest of us right so when we start to see that we got to say okay we can’t just let this run by as another rumor so the rumor was that John Ram building out his team was reaching for wendam Clark who was the 2023 us Open winner and no

Denying that would have been a huge grab huge grab I thought it was a lock to be honest with you you know like for for a guy like Clark whose stock was hot you know like this is the time to go to live for him it certainly seemed like a lock

And we’re going to talk about why we’re kind of surprised that it wasn’t right because of the fact that it seemed like only upside for Windam if he was to go but keep this one thing in mind and and this is we talk about like where live

Just seems to be a as we we get no updates on this merger and them coming together it just seems like Liv is just trying to you know put its foot down like on the back of the PGA Tour and just like pin them in a position where

They have more leverage and doing that through these huge signings if get it’s kind of crazy if you think about it on paper if they had pulled in Windam Clark and this is why this was such big news this week they would have had three out of the four current major winners that’s

Wild you got Brooks keco PGA Championship winner John ROM master Champion winham Clark US Open winner so there’s no denying that that would have changed things yeah no definitely it would have been huge news and and great news for Liv and it makes you also think the other major winner was Brian Harman

He had a similar year than um Clark you know they made the Ridder cup together his stock is hot I’m sure he got an offer too but his name’s been silent in all this so I’m wondering why the Clark kind of came out why did his name come

Up was he that close to going how close was he right you know and I got to think based on the reports there was a lot of similar words that were used to the John ROM deal I look for words like deal imminent was being said so it’s it’s it’s hard because it’s

All done in behind closed doors it’s not public negotiations so it’s hard to understand why it fell through but keeping that in mind like I I got to look to like what was the motivation for Windom what was the motivation for Li right and to me it just makes sense that

If Liv is going to throw some big money around it’s going to be to go after major winners sure because smart play and and what’s their still their hugest Achilles heel is still official world golf rankings now again we could do a whole separate note on this and break

This down but we’re seeing Liv is creeping closer and closer to opportunities for their players to get official world golf rankings we saw that in the DP World Tour a lot of live guys playing towards the end of last year in DP World Tour events and getting those

Rankings but take just wam for an example and he’s just the current US Open winner you can definitely go back a year or two and still have this at play so something to understand and think of US Open winner that gives you a 10-year exemption to into the US Open so for a

Decade Windam is in the field and he’s 30 by the way so that would take him to I don’t want to call it the end of his career but in golf pretty close largely the end of his effective career right you also get a 5-year exemption um into

The m Master the Open Championship and the PGA Championship every major till he’s 35 right okay so 5 years worth of Majors Exempted to me I’m thinking those are the guys those are the lwh hanging fruit to go to live because the guys who might be on the fence are your non- major

Winners the guys who are wanting to still be in that in those Majors each each year right guy like this he’s exempt he could just go he could play you know it’s 20 events over over those years think about it four four majors a year times five if he wins one of them

It restarts the clock right it’s crazy and unless they change that rule which could be something else that’s something that nothing I guess is guaranteed there’s there’s always the ability and they’ve left the door open the majors could change what they’re considering their their status to get in but I don’t

See you know it’s not trending that way it hasn’t happen yet it didn’t happen at the height of the conflict between these two makes me think it’s probably not going to happen necessarily now but um it it’s just it’s a it’s a very interesting thing to think like where

Where they’re setting their sights but like again why did something like this fall through so the reason we found out and the way we found out that it had fallen through was that Windam Clark uh he announced that he was committing to the American Express you know therefore

Staying on the PGA tour and the same accounts that were talking about the uh the deal and the potential for the deal happened um came out and said that the negotiation had fallen through but there was no expansion on it beyond that there was no reason specifically that was said

So let’s just kind of surmise what this deal might have looked like yeah right MH knowing the money that Rah got and and Rah is is a huge needle mover you know he’s a guy who’s he it’s not a oneandone type of major winner and I’m

Not trying to imply that Windham is a oneandone kind of major winner no but let’s but I think when you sign Ram you also sign the fans of Spain you know I feel like you know Windham is not really a big big enough name here right well internationally no doubt we’ve talked

About how they’re going after that International schedule but the reality is Windham Clark has not had the kind of you know years in previous years that that John Rob had he’s just not in the same position as John Rob that being said still being a major winner a

Current major winner and what that could do for turning continuing to turn the tide for Liv’s favor and you guys weighing in the comments if you have an idea of what you think that deal might have looked like M but I got a guess and

Tell me if I’m wrong here minimum of a $50 million signing yeah I’d say 50 minimum you know and I would put it somewhere in the in the range of50 to100 million that he was probably offered yeah right right I mean but but I mean we don’t know how these deals are

Structured I mean if it was 50 maybe it’s 50 over the next like six years maybe there’s like a thing about it maybe it’s not all upfront and then maybe that’s the reason I’m trying to still you know scratch my head of why he did not take this deal right well could

He make more in the PGA Tour that’s just the thing could you have made more but the one thing I will say is that the live money is still the only in this space guaranteed money now you could argue that there are some going to be

PGA Tour no cut events with big purses that are effectively in a way guaranteed money but there’s still a variability if you come in last place it’s nothing like first place and you still got to qualify into those events live if it’s a signing B it’s a signing bonus you know the to

Me that that that’s just the the the icing on top you know that’s guaranteed money but you know being on live the structure of it the team play basically makes everybody Rich it does you know all the way down we saw that the chase kka model chase kka the joking that

Happened early on with Pat Perez getting so rich off of it and not you know playing particularly well in that moment so there’s a lot with that so it leads me to think like okay so why why otherwise turn down this deal right and there’s one other thing that’s been

Constant was the the stigma attached right so there was plenty of guys um whether you agree with them or not who were concerned with what this would do for their career there was guys who were worried about would this put their Hall of Fame potential in Jeopardy would this

You know Sully their name in some way well I got to say that I think that that’s another thing that’s been largely put on the Shelf since the ROM signing genuinely across the board Chang the reic we rhetoric we were hearing from from everyone right so now all of a

Sudden you had guys like Rory mroy really coming out in a large way like in maybe in defense is a stretch but like saying words like you know godess see ROM at the at the Ridder cup and and just saying like I understand and respect his decision and then Phil

Mickelson we did a whole show about this talking about how Phil came that kind of bat for him so there’s one thing we can say undeniably is this’s there’s nowhere near the stigma that there was not too long ago no things just seem like we

Said to calm down a little bit after rah rah went Rah was the uh I think the final piece that I think we all needed to say okay maybe this thing is legit and maybe these two t these two sides will come together they’re still talking

That deal has not been reached yet so that’s still hanging over one’s head maybe that’s the reason why Windham turned this down but I don’t know man I mean I I think I think there’s there’s a lot of backing behind live right now and clearly man this thing is only getting

Stronger and stronger and I think these guys see it right but that being said there is a way you can read this as as being a pretty significant loss on the Liv side as well you know Liv is getting stronger uh Liv you know we’re seeing it

Like I said in the news and the way we saw recently with Phil Mickelson talking about some of their revenue model changing talked about but we we heard for the first time on the Pat McAfee show which we hadn’t really heard elsewhere that Liv is now getting paid

Uh by the the travel bureaus of some of these countries that want to bring it in and bring in tourism yeah so there’s that but there is the side of it where we’re now looking at John ROMs coming closer and closer to that first event at

Myoba and where he could have this could have been a huge Marquee signing and for whatever reason it did not happen it felt through so it to me means that just having a blank checkbook is not enough on Liv side and they’ve got to do something else and now maybe it’s that

These guys have have a little bit of a grievance with the structure um we just saw again this week it just kind of hit the news with with uh John ROM is potentially getting his way in some ways in that John Ron wanted to see a bigger field and we’re seeing that possible

Expansion this this time you know this week yeah um John also though wanted a fourth round putting put in haven’t seen him move the needle on that just yet right so maybe there could be a certain degree of that that was potentially the gripe of um on the on the side of

Windham Clark but to me I think one of the biggest thing that you got to look into and I think this is part of what weighs into that and and we kind of hinted at this in a previous episode we kind of guessed that this is where it

Was going as part of if if I’m a current major winner I’ve got a huge live offer on my desk I got I’m a current PGA Tour member and I’m exempt into the you know I’ve got punched my ticket to the Signature Events and I’m looking at both

And I’m like where do I go yes there’s a lot of guaranteed money on on the side of of Liv but the reality is there’s a lot of money everywhere right now exactly right I’m looking at this PGA Tour schedule over the next what is it

Two two and a half months yeah you have almost five events all with a purse of o of 20 million or more the reality is there’s probably never been a better time to be a top 25 player than right now because the reality is no matter where you are you’re making generational

Wealth yeah no doubt there’s no doubt about it there’s a lot of money flying around and I was I was so blown away by the uh where’ Windam finish uh he finished t29 at the century and made 140 Grand I mean some of these like non-cut events these these private events and

Hawaii these guaranteed money events with no cut there’s a lot of money to be made on the tour and he wins once in a regular elev I should call it regular in an elevated event a designated event right it’s a ton of money and you know

This was done in response to live like we saw the purses jump up from the biggest purses being 9 million to 20 million seemingly overnight yeah and this was why it was done it was done to level the playing field it was done where there wasn’t as big of a disparity

Where a guy like and again we’re we’re guessing at this $50 million number a guy like Windom might be saying okay I got I make 50 here and it was no longer like this huge tipping of the scales where 50 million or maybe two or three million over here right it’s more like

Getting closer now with the PGA Tour and if you really want to dig deeper into that if you start to think about what sponsors might you lose by going to live and I’m not even talking about for the stigma anymore now as live moves to a new model where they’re going

To have team apparel sponsors and things like that who knows what do those sponsored deals look like and what is the negotiations going behind the scenes like you may lose this here all I’m saying is it’s starting to look a little bit more like this for these guys who

Are top tier top Echelon guys yeah they’re now making money no matter where they go I know right they’re making that money and and again he’s his exemptions from that major win guarantee that he’ll be in the opportunity to make that money so I mean they’re going to ask him I’m

Sure this week at the American Express I’m sure there someone in that press room is going to say we heard you were taking a deal why didn’t you take it he’s got to answer it there’s there’s no we’re going to hear his reason but I worry that what you’re going to get from

That reasoning is some sort of just very blank statement agent written statement right the reality is and I think if if any of these guys were to speak bluntly it might be something more to the effect of you know you now look at both schedules the live schedule although is

Not as commitment of number events you have to be there weal Phil Mickelson talked about the policy of saying for sponsors and for and for fans they’re guaranteeing the guys are going to be there you’re traveling all over the world that is a very Global league on

The PGA tour side you may look at it and say there’s certain events that suit me and I know I can play well there I know I can win there you may want to stick around for that um but the concern that will continue to come back to for me and

Then this is something that we’ve talked about here and I’m going to beat this drum until you know somebody like kind of like whether something happens one way or the other my concern is we are now reaching this point where the arms race of money between these two tours is

Going to create some very very very rich golfers yes that’s true what does it do for the longterm sustainability of the of the game we just saw it last week the uh Wells Fargo and Farmers Insurance both dropping out as as sponsors because there we’re getting to a point where

There’s only a like a very select amount of companies that are going to be able to pay that big elevated signature event purse right yeah it’s crazy I mean just to think about where this is all going to go I mean obviously like I said before once this deal gets like

Announced I think we’re going to have more clarity but I mean even these these PGA Tour events my biggest gripe with them is you know there’s still Cuts they’re still not guaranteed money yes there’s 25 20 whatever it is million on the line but if I’m like Joe Schmo and I

Can barely make cuts it’s it’s hard man it’s I totally get that the guys who are fighting on that cut line but then I’m I’m I’m more concerned so I guess where I’m going with that is I’m concerned about what’s the future for those guys

Are they ever going to have a chance or is like the farm system of golf like dying you’re there’s no denying that we could see like a kind of like a a separation there and and we even saw like some gripes recently the guys talking about like not getting into the

Signature Events and that’s where the money is and and Justin Thomas kind of saying like well play better you know it’s like it’s really go what we’re really doing is we’re taking like the pool of guys who are making the money it seems to be getting a little bit smaller

And smaller um but again I just worry about where that money is going to come from to support that and I think that’s really honestly one of the biggest things that’s holding up this whole deal from happening is that now we’re as as this arms race continued of money the

Tour the PJ tour you know live obviously you know they’ve got that back in the PF which seems like an unlimited supply of money but on the PGA tour side the pressure is on to make that deal with those key core investors and that’s where they’re looking to you know this

Boston Sports Group and others because they’re going to rely on them because you’re going to run out of sponsors like the old model of having a uh an event sponsor who can put up that purse is just dropping off so quickly so the other big thing though that we have to

Dig in to though is like okay so on the live side where does this leave everything with John ROM and his team does he even have a team with a few weeks to go so same type of sources are reporting who might go but I think there’s one really big indication in

There that could really show like you talked about these upand cominging golfers they’re in a lot of ways the future of golf we know who the big names are right now but where’s the future and where’s the future going to play exactly and I think this John ROM this other

John ROM signing that we have to talk about is going to be one of those things that’s going to indicate that and it goes into a much bigger picture of the the way Sports has been going in general with the amount of money floating around so we’re going to take a quick break

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T30s the good news is they they all just kind of work together yeah you know and they look they the similar look it’s you know it’s not like being able to like where you have two different types of clubs in your hand and why that matters

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Titleist.com check them out and make sure you know do yourself a favor and schedule yourself a fitting this summer okay so getting right into it talking about John ROM’s team the other big signing that’s being talked about now and and this is again coming from a lot

Of those same type of sources so is there a possibility it won’t happen absolutely but we look at these things and we kind of look at indications for how viable they are and this one looks like it’s it’s it’s very possible so um for John ROM’s team uh Caleb Sarat right

What’s interesting about him is that he is the first guy I think since Justin Thomas to win uh the SEC Championship as a freshman now he’s he’s a kid he’s a young guy 19 right 19 years old played in the 2023 Walker cup um freshman University of Tennessee but perhaps most

Importantly he’s the 10th ranked amateure in the world right now and it’s looking like he’s going to be the next person announced on John ROM’s team wouldn’t you at that age in a lot of ways yesan come on and I think this is something that that’s so although the

Name may not be a name you’re familiar with although it may not be a a household name but no one was in the beginning right correct yeah and he’s certainly not the publicity draw that Windham Clark would have been MH but if you listen to the words that coming out

Of the mouths of the guys from Liv you starts to make more and more sense why you’d see something like this yeah again I got to go back to because the first real time we’ve seen him speak candidly uh in long form in quite a while was

Phil Mickelson Pat MCA show he talked about a lot of these teams are are thinking themselves long especially the team owners right so remember John Ron part of his deal is his team ownership the value of his deal goes up as the value of his team goes up sure as an

Owner it makes sense sense for him to bring in and develop players they see with a lot of potential Phil Mickelson talked about where at least his team and he didn’t want to speak for other teams but he said like this is kind of the model they’re going to be developing

Their own training facilities no different than you see like in the NFL where the Jets have their training facility Giants have their train right having that training facilities where they can come in and develop players because they ALS the player benefits but they also benefit because remember it’s

A team environment team winnings things like that to have a guy like Caleb come in see the potential in him and think I can develop this guy and even possibly in know John ROM or a guy who’s John ROM’s not old but in an older case I’m

10 years I’m out of the league but I’m still an owner right this guy hits his prime I’m making money off of him exactly type of thing but I guess where the debate then leads is and it’s something like Taylor’s oldest time was should generally across all Sports

Should you stay in college or should you make the jump right right 19 years old one year of college leaves college and goes and plays you know on live and on live tour I would imagine he’s not getting a huge signing bonus he may be getting something I would imagine still

Pulling names the guys who don’t just qualify in to live from that qualifying event you know they might be they may throw quarter million dollars at them you know something to get them started M but which is a lot more than PGA Tour rookies great and it it still comes down

To live money even if it’s not a a signing bones it’s in a lot of ways all but guaranteed so what I mean by that is again go back look at Chase Kea um look at James Patt you know what I mean these are guys who made themselves 10 to $25

Million in a season or two in the team environment where when the team wins you take home something right and if I’m in a lot of ways like if I put myself in the shoes if I’m Caleb’s parents and helping him guide him through this decision I gotta say that I would I

Think and I I’m not in that situation so I’m not 100% sure but I think my decision would be to push him towards going pro going into to live yeah I mean it’s the golden egg it’s the Golden Goose it’s what all golfers want they want to play pro tour and make money

Right so this carrot is being dangled in front of you which seems like an easy grab at 19 years old right you know I mean think about all these guys who come out of college and they’re grinding and they’re still paying tournament fees and they’re on the road and they’re missing

Cuts it’s a tough life yeah if this carrots dangling in front of you I mean I don’t see why you would turn that down and look to play John with with the with sports in general being so unpredictable as they are anybody could get injured end a career things like that could

Happen to me I’m kind of the indication if money is there in your face like take the money especially for a kid like this take the money and then you could always go back to college in the future if you want to finish your degree you can do

Those types of things you can learn while you’re playing live right you you know you can you there’s a lot of online courses no you get what I’m saying like you if you if he takes whereas we made the argument earlier in the show of how

For the top tier guys who are getting the big offers who are also in the Signature Events and all that stuff the playing field is getting more and more level it’s the opposite is true with the brand new guys like this a top 10 amateur where if the live opportunity is

There the scales are still tipped in the live side because even if he was to make his way onto the PGA Tour there’s a as we know there’s a lot of competition there there’s a lot of grinding a lot of the guys who are in the similar position

And amateur status who are trying to make it and beyond that now you’re fighting with all the tour guys to make it your way into the Signature Events where the big money is yeah so a guy like Caleb might make his way on he might play in some nons Signature Events

Here and there maybe win a million bucks here or there yeah he could go to live he could make a million dollars in a weekend and not even necessarily play well his team just wins exactly and what better opportunity you have to win than playing on John ROM’s team I know I mean

All the pieces are there for Success so that’s why it seems like a no-brainer for this kid and and for other kids you know of his um you know position which I think we’re going to see more and more of I mean it’s part of their business

Model I’m sure live go after the major winners go after upper comom College top amateurs it seems like that should that’s like the plan of live right now if I’m look from the outside looking in it might be there’s two places go after the top tier guys shot in the dark if if

They if you know offer them a big pay check the lightning and the bottle guys Y and you get them and then there it’s a huge conversation point it’s publicity it’s pressure on the PGA tour you get one of those guys or vice versa on the other side you don’t have to spend

Necessarily as much money up front but you take again lightning in a bottle maybe one of these guys is the next whoever right you know maybe Caleb is the next Justin Thomas and he’s playing on your tour mhm right and ever be that that’s a great question but but can yeah

Like that’s great but no one’s going to become the next anybody at live that like that’s what people are probably saying like yeah go ahead take the money but you’re never going to become the next Rory mroy because no one’s going to know about you no one’s going to be able

To watch you I mean it depends like he wins 50 million CB Sarat on Liv this year where yes I get what you’re saying but like as Liv grows it’s you know in you know it’s fan base and whatever and it enters that conversation and we talked about before

Like being more and more validated by Voices like Rory if a person was over there and they were just winning like crazy you know all of a sudden hey who’s this you know look think about Taylor about Taylor gu but still still I mean he’s still not top of

The world biggest name i i i he won 40 something million having a great life I can’t disagree with you there was going to be that conversation if a guy’s winning like crazy over there it’s still not necessar going to be like the next

Whoever on the PGA tour in a lot of ways a lot of people will say that but like Phil Mickelson said in his in his I’ll go back to his interview again he said don’t forget we’re a startup we still have a long way to go who knows what the

Visibility of live might be and the quote unquote credibility of live might be in two to three years where I can say though the Counterpoint there’s always a Counterpoint to and the Counterpoint here is a guy like a guy like Caleb goes into live and is not making official

World golf rankings and is not getting into major Fields yeah and is therefore not winning Majors M there it becomes a tougher conversation to a guy like again we’re just using this loose comparison Justin Thomas who’s win has won a major you know what I mean there you you got a

Certain extent like if you are a guy like Caleb and you take that guaranteed money you better play well you better play well over there and you better kind of at least in your mind reserve the the possibility that you’re not playing in Majors yes or or anywhere else right

Yeah now so so there’s certain guys like that they’re are taking a more significant gamble that the tours are going to come together in some way because I think the the winning scenario for somebody like Caleb would be he gets on John ROM’s team makes himself some

Good money over 2 three years he’s got his foot in the door the the tours merge and now he’s just playing professionally on whatever that new circuit is right but without that there is something still to consider yeah there really is so look as we always say weigh in the

Comments let us know what you think if you were in this position where where would you go or where would you advise if it was your kid who was on 19 years old and kind of torn between the two what’s the upside in either Direction no matter what it’s an interesting

Conversation it’s a dynamic that feels like it’s changing constantly yeah so we’ll be here to continue covering it you know constantly so make sure you subscribe wherever you get your podcast this was certainly some big news this is certainly a big one to kind of digest so

Let us know what you think in the comments and we’ll see you in the next show