Brian Manzella – Everything you wanted to know about the Top 50/100 Coaches List | GOLF 360 Podcast

Episode #126
Brian Manzella – Everything you wanted to know about the Golf Digest and GOLF Magazine Top 50 Coaching List – It’s history, how to get on the list, how to move up, who votes, etc.
Brian Manzella (T: @brianmanzella, IG: @brianmanzella, FB: @brianmanzellagolf) is the Director of Instruction for Brian Manzella Golf as well as Jacobs 3D. He has been amongst the best coaches in the country for many years and has been on Golf Digest’s Top 50 for 6 years running as well as Golf Magazines list of 100. He has helped numerous coaches learn more about the coaching and instruction business with some going on to win Section teaching awards as well as becoming Top 100 and Top 50 coaches themselves. He has taught everyone from beginner to world-class tour professionals. Over the years he has written numerous articles, produced countless videos and continues to delve deep into science as a part of the Jacobs 3D Initiative.

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And there it is there we are we are live rocking and rolling with uh very very exceptional coach teacher top 50 been doing a long time Brian manzela second second visit to the golf 360 so thank you for coming on we’re have a lot of fun three I think I think three yeah

You’re right I’m must have been a forgetable episode um before we get into the main topic which is the the new the Golf Digest Golf Magazine top 100 uh you you you’ve been doing some traveling some and some teaching and coaching I know in your career you’ve been is it 39

Countries around the world I think I’ve talked at 19 so I’ve G crossed over I’ve probably been to 30 um I like traveling it it breaks up the it breaks up the the the dayto day and uh and you know if your goal is to be and this kind of dovetails into what

What what this you know uh our little episode is today if if you want to be the best teacher in the world that’s always been my goal I mean I’m running out of time here but you know hopefully the man upstairs will give me some more more years here um you you’re pretty

Much gonna have to travel around the world you you’re not going to be able to do it from your Batcave as much as I’d like to be able to do it from this Batcave right here uh it’s just a little more interesting to travel and and it’s very interesting when you travel

How different the golf pros and the golf business is I think the golf pros are more different from country to country than most people would think as as like little groups of people and the business is very similar right it’s still an old school business uh that’s changing but

It’s a lot of fun and uh uh you know especially when I get to talk you know to groups like uh I went to Korea a few months ago and me and Michael Jacobs are going back uh end of February uh he’s never been but it’s it’s one of those things

Where you accumulate all this information youd like to make some money with it some Fame you know get on lists and but at the end of the day you know and help golfers play better but at the end of the day you don’t want to die with this information you want to share

It to other people and and uh you know you don’t want people like uh doing like trying to figure out what you thought about something like they do you know my whole life was like people figuring out what Homer Kelly who wrote the golfer machine thought about something or what

Ben Hogan right who said if he really wrote an instruction book it would be this thck actually thought about something well you know I I got a big mouth I’ll I’ll I’ll tell you what I think while I’m on this planet so you don’t have to make it up uh later on

You’ll probably get it wrong you know what I find interesting is uh whenever somebody wins whether it’s uh ludvig or Rory Rah but fill in the blank that all the different disciplines of coaching that all the different theories will start posting pictures and videos of

Their swing and say look see how he does this in our system isn’t this it can’t they can’t all be can’t all be right and and and uh and you can always tell kind of what’s popular in teaching at least on on on the internet because odberg

Swing is not it’s very similar to what I mean matter of fact I had another top 50 teacher I try to keep people’s names out of things Tell Me That alberg Swing reminded him of pay Chen Chen Michael jacobs’s up andc coming student that plays for St John because there a lot of

Stuff but if you’re teaching hold the club to top and doing all this stuff and bending right side bending it which is very popular auber’s not doing any of that you’re not going oh auberg won because you’re pulling for your little deal yeah and hey it’s it’s it’s human

Nature you know I’m gonna go to a football game on Sunday and jump up and down for the Saints so all right well let’s get into the main topic because you and I had a very good discussion on this a couple weeks ago um before you you went uh flying

Around the globe and and I got to sit here in South Carolina not too cold but cold enough that couldn’t do a whole lot but uh nonetheless we had a very good discussion and and you have been in and around the top 50 or top 100 list

Whichever one there is for very long basically since the beginning you you you have won you’re one who is I’ve been I’ve been I’ve been following it since the beginning but have that I guess I’m about 12 years well if you add the end of wherever this runs to right wherever

These list run to it’ll be uh 12 or 13 on golf magazine top 100 and 10 or 11 on digz top 50 so I was on the other list like maybe once or twice before I got on the uh but I’ve been following it since day one because like

I tell people Pete uh uh we don’t have tournaments we don’t have teach offs much as I’d like to have them so this is it you’ve got you can get asked to talk at big things which are less and less important uh Once Upon a Time you know the PGA

Teaching and coaching Summit was the was the Pinnacle now now it’s it’s something but it’s not the Pinnacle because there’s an internet and you can do shows like this and and and and talk to people about the swing by just traveling around the world like we were talking about earlier

But everybody says they don’t really care about the list until they get on them and then you see they they just oh I’m so humbled and I’m you know whatever but at the point is everybody cares because we don’t have anything else and these two lists

Uh are as good as we’ve got I I would like to see to be very honest a third list that everybody that was somebody like a teacher like me would pay that cared would pay somewhere between two three $400 a year and they would do the

Lists around the world and local and and you would with golfers and without you know with teachers and just because it it’s market research at the end of the day all the criticism about the list their free market research that would cost you a lot of money to do maybe not

A lot of money collectively but individually it would it would um it it would it would cost you a lot of money to do so you you just need to know and that’s what I wanted to talk about like how they’re done how they’re voted on

What what what what what how do people move up and down how how the list have changed you know kind of some of the things they’ve done over the years and and the first thing is is that the first list was the magazine list so Lauren Anderson who now runs proponent group

His great guy Sher chery’s his his his wife had great little daughter they he he created the list I don’t know if George pepper had anything to do with it me and George pepper never saw eye to eye I’d love to meet with that guy again

And bury that hatch I don’t think he I don’t think he knows who I am you know but I mean I ran into he he gave me a couple of like basically like backhand slaps at the uh at the PGA show in my youth and

Uh I uh I like to like to walk up there with the big 13 on my uh Jersey and say hey hey George but anyway so Lauren I don’t really I haven’t talked to him about how he did it but more or less it it probably didn’t spend the time or

Have the resources that that they do now right so that list that original list was probably like I tell people okay the only way you’re going to find out who the best 100 teachers or best 50 teachers or who’s one two three four is you’re gonna have to go upstairs and

Talk to somebody a lot more knowledgeable about how this whole world Works than us to and uh uh if you had a couple of questions at the Pearly Gates that probably wouldn’t be one of them but if it was you have the real list like who who really is the best teachers

In in order according to the man upstairs and then you have the lists that we’re going to talk about and that first list was probably further from correct than any list that’s been done since and you can’t really fault the guy was a writer he’s not a teacher he

Didn’t know everybody those those National Summits had just really kind of started you know like the PGA show was a PGA show now when you if you go this year like we were talking about you going this year the whole front of the of the building I mean it’s two million

Square feet right but the whole front of the building like sort of revolving around the trackman booth which is in a perfect spot plus it’s a it’s a big deal in the industry trackman got my number four over there um it’s it’s like a teachers convention right and you’ve got

The the the seminars everybody’s got a seminar me and Mike are doing one at the gears booth on Wednesday we talked about that but open Forum right so it’s it’s it’s almost become a now you get to you can see a whole lot of people in one

Place so that first list was probably the most flawed and then it got better over the years and and I’ll just stay on on the magazine list at some point when pepper and the magazine maybe got sold or changed hands or whatever and Lauren you know went to do something else it

Fell on sort of like U I want to say disrepair but it was like the magazine was like we don’t have anybody to do it and uh that’s when they hired David denunzio and and either right before they hired denunzio who now the editor and a good a good friend good lucky for

Me I’m friends with all these guys uh even though they’re they’re bitter rifles you know two magazines but um uh uh Mike Adams TJ tasew just passed rest his rest his soul nice man uh I think Jim suy Ed iuin those guys sort of like rescued the

List for Dave and said hey look at we’ll we’ll we’ll be this committee and we’ll help you with this we have this current list and we’ll try to do and they they sort of rescued it and then over the years that’s the way that list is is has come up with in other

Words you have a committee different people on the committee o over the years uh have been in and out um they vote on the list the magazine obviously has the hammer right and that’s the list okay so that’s a so at some point not that far into that list being in existence G

Digest did a list Matt Rudy has run the list the the whole time and it’s been a vote so over the years they’ve got more and more people voting this time they have 3,000 people voting and there’s different ways they’ve done it but we’ll we’ll get into the how they do it now

You know how the actual you know when you go to your your little voting window how how what are you doing and uh and they’ve added more and more people because they asked the people on the list well like who should be you know is there anybody that you know that doesn’t

Get a ballot you think ought to get a ballot and so you know now that that that that’s 3,000 people that’s pretty good I think a lot of these presidential surveys you see on TV they don’t have 3,000 people so it’s it’s pretty good and it’s a vote it’s

It’s a vote and then the magazine has you know those guys you know have a vote you know because they they if their less so you know at the end of the day if you don’t know that’s how it’s being done it’s it’s very different to impress a small group of knowledgeable golf

Pros Titans of the industry right CU you not you’re not gonna if you’re the editor of Golf Magazine like David denunzio you’re not gonna put a committee together to do the top 100 that’s a a bunch of schops so you got you got big time guys on on on the

Committee impressing that group of people is very different than impress ing 3,000 people who aren’t going to just decide whether Pete is one of the top 50 or not but they’re gonna at the end of the day rank them so let’s get to that so on the digest list okay I’m Joe

Teacher I just moved here from uh Korea you know like one of my buddies I’m going back and I decided damn it I’m teaching in America I come over here and I get I get on the ballot list and I get sent to ballot and there it is it opens

Up on my computer and uh it’s about 160 or so names with a little box you can click and and three or four little write in things I think Pete papovich click right right you can vote for up to 50 and I think there are way more than a half of

The people who vote vote who don’t realize they don’t have to vote they don’t have to click on 50 it’s just up to 50 but you but you have if you want to vote for then the next thing is you vote for your top 10

Of the people you clicked on so if you want to vote for 10 you’re gonna have to click on 10 or write in you know certain amount and then you rank them Bri Manzel one Michael Jacobs 2 you know Sean Webb 3 Rick over four you know whatever you

Know whatever your deal is right Cameron mccormic F so that’s how it’s done and then obviously you get a whole lot more value for a top 10 vote or a number one vote than you do for a click and because I’m not you know Mr you know

Hold my cards close to me because I don’t really think that’s how you want to win a a ball game or or or contest I’ve never in the last four or five have ever clicked clicked on 50 because it’s one of those things when I get to a

Certain number okay I’m clicking on the people then it’s like you know like when you’re inviting people to your wedding I’ll never forget when me and Lisa got married 20 years ago like I got to the point where okay the the the boys that play at Norman playground I played in the

Football like you know league for uh mostly African-American for about 30 years of my life until I just got old and broken down and those some of those people are the dearest friends I have in the whole world and uh got choked up just thinking about them anyway you can’t invite

One you see if I click on Ronald Winfrey then IR no’s got to go Leo Bailey’s gota all the and we were we had so many people so I couldn’t have some of those guys come because I would have had to have six or seven of them come so I’m voting on on

This list and I’m you know pass the first couple of rows here of my people that you know I think you know I need to vote for because they they deserve it then I get to oh shoot if I vote for him I got to vote for all of these people

That I consider to be somewhat on so I I I tend to vote for way less than 50 and then I really think about my top 10 and and that’s how they do it so I don’t think a whole lot of people know the basics but that’s it the

Committee is is impressing that group of people impressing 3,000 people obviously they’re pretty damn different now you got better odds on the on the 100 because there’s a hundred people okay now one one extra thing before I’m sure you got a million questions but let me get to this while I in my

Notes so let’s start with Golf Magazine not only is there a top 100 but there let’s start from the top of the of the non-top 100 list there’s a Hall of Fame I was the inducted um my mentor Ben Doyle two years ago at the top 100 that

I just got back from in December so when one one year ago one year ago 22 yeah you did the speech I remember so Ben obviously isn’t taking anybody spot right now because he passed okay but Butch Harmon is in the Hall of Fame so he’s not taking anybody’s that’s a spot

Open because Butch Harmon and Jim mlan and and David LED that as you could imagine if you have a Hall of Fame those guys Bob tasy they were in the Hall of Fame so then there’s a another uh piece that if you’ve been on the list for 20

Straight years you’re sort of like a baritus you’re you’re like you know lifetime even if you maybe don’t get to that next Hall of Fame level so that’s probably current 40 people 35 people something like that so so it’s the top 100 not including those 35 or 40 people all

Right so this year and it seems have one to be one of the few things I’ve read uh around the internet that people were like oh they busted out 15 current and five non-current all all living Legends of teaching like buge and Jim mlan and Chuck Cook and Hank

Hany and now they’re on their own SE Mike heon they’re on their own little Legends of Golf uh p and Lynn I think right yep uh they they they they’re on their the legend list and that opened up 15 spots right because we were talking yesterday you know what time to get

Together how else are you going to listen the man upstairs decides when you’re going to leave this planet right he’s running his rap game and my mom is still on this planet and she’s 93 I’m going to hope to go see her on Monday that place is full of 90 year old

People man that retirement place so these people that are on this list buch Harmon was going to be in an assisted living place and still getting voted number one yeah you got to make room for the people who are coming up so so that’s so that so there you go that was

A good idea that they had so there there’s there’s the list that’s that’s that’s you know we can obviously we got a million things to talk about like how how do somebody get on the list but that’s the bones of it so I think the first thing you got to know like because

There always been I was very lucky to start teaching at the place I taught where it was somewhere between 15 and 20 other people who wanted you to die not really die but in the business die enough where you go sell you know weed eaters Home Depot and I realized that if those

People were voting not that there was any list back then 41 years ago they weren’t voting for me they vote for me off the island I’d be the first guy voted off the island the young guy with the video camera but then what the public thought right

So I knew and then what I I I I you know you have to be able to self-evaluate you’re never going to get good at anything you have to know no matter how many times they patted Michael Jordan on the back he probably went yeah but I got

To work on my jumper right so I knew very early on okay you want to be the best great but there’s the best the actual best the man upstairs and you know and then the acknowledge best I I don’t really know well really know is the right I think the best term

Butch okay I I know I know his brother better um dick and I I knew dick and I know um Billy Billy yeah Billy I know the best thank you and uh dick dick passed and he was a great man let me tell you I had a great had a great lunch

With him one time but he had some stories man so anyway I don’t know Butch that good have run him to an airports when I was out there with David and stuff you know 10 years ago and um uh but the odds are he’s probably not the best golf

Teacher across the board golf teacher on the planet I’m not saying that disparagingly it’s just there’s 50,000 people doing this business and he’s he you know he can’t even Michael Jordan’s not the best basketball player in the world anymore so um but he’s never going to finish on any vote less than number

One so obviously they’re are two separate things and people need to kind of wrap their heads around that you want to you want to move up the list realize that that’s different than actual right this is the acknowledgment of either this committee or the 3,000 people vote what

Is the the 3,000 people because I got they sent me a a voting packet and I I I guess uh thankfully enough that the podcast has grown big enough I had enough top coaches on and you’re a golf and you’re a golf teacher I’m a golf

Coach yeah so I I don’t know what criteria maybe it was both that that they said hey he he he knows enough about what he’s way more than enough way more than enough and he has not because I’m just here on your show but you know

Yeah but we talked about that you know I know enough about the swing I mean I’ve done it for not to say that if you do something for three or four decades that you know I mean my dad used to say you could do it wrong for four decades wrong

Um but uh and then you know I have a lot of you on and and we talk detail I get you hour and a half two hours you really get to get dig into depth and that’s why I did long form but I’m curious to to the committee because you said you know

You really got impressed him how many are on that and then how do do you know who uh the selection criteria is or or what you have to be to get on there not that I’m finding to be on there I’m just curious who who who would

Be on there making these told I’ve told enough people this that I don’t think Dave denunzio would get mad at me for saying it I think one day he wanted to just to show you people think that these things are slopped together the amount of time that denunzio when he was doing

It and Rudy that still does it spend on this thing is giant it’s hundreds of hours it’s like it’s like their magazines uh swimsuit issue the top 100 list comes out exactly so once upon a time he I think he just wanted to check the work of the committee so I

Got a bunch of resumes and a giant box and go ahead and he didn’t tell me what to do he just said rank them come up with some little you know a list b list whatever you know so what I did was I had 650 resumés um still have them and um not

Surprised I’m a packrat so uh I I had nine people that I thought I think these nine people should be on the list already nine people on the committee no no no no on the okay of the so they had the list right so that that you know I

Didn’t get then I had 650 resumés of people that were nominated nominated themselves whatever how it worked then because you can nominate yourself now which is good because sometimes you know you’re you’re a man on an island of the nine people that I said these people should be in list eight of

Those people are currently on the top 100 list and I’ll tell you the person who’s not Kevin Shields who’s a dear friend of mine and somebody have helped with his golf game for about 15 years and is a great player his son’s going to be Pittsburgh his son’s going

To be a first round pick in the Major League draft next year and be the youngest person drafted in the first round pitcher leftand pitcher I played with Kevin on the 2001 the DP tour for a and he he’s been around so some kind of

Way he he’s not you know he’s the guy that slips through the cracks of my little list that I got over here how how people might know who you are to vote for you right he just he’s at a nice club at Nicholas course he plays in a lot of

Tournaments but for whatever reason he doesn’t post he posts a decent amount on social about stuff but not necessarily about the swing and maybe if I would have kept my Forum going a little longer because he was one of the guys you know but the other eight guys have done been on that

List so I did okay now it’s not that hard right to figure it out really to be honest with you and then I had about I think it was 39 people that were like one notch lower and uh a lot of those people are

In top 100 now so I think he was just doing that to go like you know Manzel’s kind of plugged in all of this let’s how is the committee doing well obviously the committee must do pretty good because I came up with nine people and a

Few years ago eight of those people were already on the list so um I I know names that have been on the list over the years and I said for the original committee uh I think that’s the right for I don’t think saying their names or whatever I don’t know who

Exactly to put them out yeah yeah yeah but but but but it’s it’s somewhere between four and six people or something like that and uh I know a guy who’s a friend of mine that was on last time not not this current one and and not on this

Time right you know actually on the committee and uh so I think you know they they individually look at everything and then they probably get together on a zoom or maybe even in person and they go so Pete uh what about uh Kevin Shields well let’s see Kevin

Shields yeah I got I got him over here let’s see yeah Pittsburgh right yeah I played in a tournament with him in you know 2001 yeah what’s what’s what who has he helped right so they they start looking at like have you talked at seminars have you who do you teach right

You know like okay yeah uh he’s got a bunch of good local players bunch of college players he’s a good player um everybody that I’ve asked thinks he’s very knowledgeable okay okay let’s put him over here now who who you got who who you got over here we got Bobby

Kesman from New Orleans okay he’d been teaching a long time blah blah blah good player you know was a Henry Griffith’s guy early on you know with studyed under Noel manzela you know he’s got some good he’s still teaching you know like you know okay we got one spot um man

Kushman’s a good guy Kevin I’m sure that’s how it’s done right I mean like at some point you get to some level that um you got to make a call you got to make a call and the room probably it it does it and and that’s what that’s

How I got on you know we’ll talk about that later at some point two of the guys in the room who had you know more swing or bigger miles or both basically said no he’s on but you know some people didn’t want me you got to realize that you’re

Dealing with people and the differences in the committee I I’ll never forget I I I brought up um I went to a PGA thing uh uh you know one of the twice a year things you know the sections get together when I was in Kentucky and uh

Cute little story I’m looking at the clock I’m not going to waste a whole lot of time with it but anyway we were in some holiday in you know and and and it’s it’s it’s after lunch and I’m walking in and they got a couple of these guys from probably Western

Kentucky um with their like wedding suit on you know except they they weigh about 230 and they probably weighed 165 you know and the suit one they couldn’t button the button and the ties tied to here and they looked like you know they look like wimpies give me a hamburger

Today I’ll pay you on Tuesday and and I thought this is this it’s you know whatever year it was like 2001 or two or whatever so I you know knew any new business so I raised my hand and they roll their eyes you know here’s manzella and I said it’s it’s the

New Millennium let’s what about business casual you know everybody’s got nice golf clothes we’re in the business throw on a nice board coat and you look like Ben Hogan picking up the trophy right that’s that was Hogan’s thing you go col hair put the sport coat on and everybody

You could just hear the room go yeah yeah okay let’s can we get it can I get somebody to you know bring it to to the floor for a vote you know somebody did da da da and we were about to vote and it was going to win like Secretariat who would vote

Against having to wear a tie to impress a bunch of guy golf Bros and a couple lady golf Bros nobody but I like clothes more than anybody yeah I lose 20 more pounds I I’ll dress like Elvis but right before the vote the guys in the green coats up the front the the

PGA uh you know elected officers in the section they started wielding their little influence and when it voted 113 to3 it lost wow so you get a bunch of people in a room or a little group of people in a room and somebody can sway the influence or

Whatever if you’re voting like you voted right and you’re standing there and you’re going I think this guy is one of the best 50 teachers click you don’t give a rat’s rear end what I think you’re voting you gotta vote but in a room of people people

That myob rule yep you you know as you bring up uh people to put on the list and you and I have talked about him before and everybody says in in in his specialty putting that that he knows by far more than anybody on the planet and

He he has never made any list is Jeff Mangum now I I think that Jeff is I I I would consider myself Pro maybe a friend of his I don’t know if if if he would consider I would say I’m probably a friend of Jeff I spent a fair amount of time I

Consider myself a friend of Jeff yeah and I think I think his stuff slept in the same room a few times you know but I I I think in the way that Jeff has responded to the industry I think he has done himself a disservice and I I I I

Told him that once and I don’t think he liked it but I wasn’t T him to to be to begrudge him or knock him down saying Jeff you’re so good I think it’s your presentation that is keeping you and he said well I don’t care about

Accolades I just want to help people do I mean he’ll give somebody a putting lesson and say you don’t know me anything or give me 10 bucks and that’s just the person he is but not not to get off track but I I wrote him in it’s 100%

It’s 100% On Track in other words like when I again I’ve told the story so many times what the hell when I was finally you know the two guys in the room and and denunzio went yeah I think yeah we’re gonna do this Manzel there were people saying that denunzio

Was going to have to hire a full-time attorney because the magazine was going to get sued once a week because I’m so this Brian Manzel’s controversial lie I’m opinionated I Won’t Back Down from my opinion but if I was classless I’d have been tossed off of these lists a long

Time ago I know how to act everybody can’t be everybody’s that look there’s a guy in the business I’m looking at his name right now and I’ve got the top 13 up here by the way so he’s in the top 13 It’s All I’m gonna give you so you know

When I you can you can narrow this down it ain’t me and it ain’t Jacob’s so there’s only 11 other people so he’s a very he’s the opposite of Jeff Mangum right he’s the opposite of Jeff bangum and somebody told him somebody with with a clue because he’s got enough money to

Buy the right people to tell him you know what to vanilla so now he’s got new social media you know instructionals and he’s like trying to do me I’m not you know like he’s trying to come at the camera like you think that laying the club Down’s a

Good idea well I’m GNA show you why it might not be a good idea for you like whoa that’s new for this I’ve known I’ve known him for 20 years never seen him do that before so you can go too far one way somebody thought he needed to be a

Little bit more aggressive and Jeff I’m I’m pretty aggressive but Jeff is further out there and um to me and nobody’s asking me but maybe one day I’ll be in position to you know do a list or something you got to get the short game people and put them in their

Own I’d have a top 20 short game people yeah that would make sense it’s really not fair to Mike Granado to not make the top 100 or the top 50 one day he’s moving up right uh I think he was 14 or 15 in Florida and a lot of teachers in

Florida um it’s not fair to Mike for him being a sort of teach anything uh teacher more more swing than anything else but obviously but but to get knocked off of that because a putting teacher right but um it shouldn’t have anything to do with it whether or not

You’re liked or not liked or whatever but obviously you know or or or you’re supposedly too colorful I don’t know way I came up with that one I to go with too colorful I like that better than controversial because I may be too colorful but I’m not controversial so the point is that

Somebody like him uh falls into this like last little category I got right here which is people think oh it’s all politics really it’s politics Michael Jacobs and politics he doesn’t go to seminars to kiss babies and Shake Hands which I do he doesn’t care really that much

About impressing that person or that person he’d he’d like everybody to like something he puts out right he knows there are people that you know they’re on the other side of things from him number eight voted yeah he he he put his information on social media is very

Interesting things he’s he’s not putting things out there just for clicks and likes it’s like this is information if you if you care to follow it right and and I and we can individually go through some of these but since he’s my best friend in the business here you go ankle

Jacobs number eight okay so just think about this now so and I’m not just saying this because he’s a friend of mine and and and and we’re basically a team in a lot of ways but I’m saying this also as as a guy who’s trying to be the number one

Guy I got this guy you know in my dang back pocket he knows so much more about how the body and the golf swing works then whoever number two is it is embarrassing for whoever number two is I ain’t ever gonna catch him so like

I gotta like if I sat down which I haven’t done yet one of my New Year’s resolutions to sit down and say you you need a plan here bro you know you got 12 more spot to go um and I’d like to make some more money while I do it so how do

I do those two things right and and it’s things like books I’ve never done I want to do so when you I I’m not gonna ever go find a guy like Tom Myers even though I know he’s the guy you know the world famous anatomist I’m not going to

Dissections Mike’s been the two dozen I’m not gonna cut up a worm I’m gonna I’m gonna throw up when he goes to dissections the first week I have to talk him down he’s so upset you can just tell like these dead people he’s holding in his hands you

Know going hm yeah everybody thinks that shoulder goes this way and it moves this thing but it really doesn’t it’s attached to the you know what I mean so you got to really know you got to really want to know that and having the the two versions of our software the

Club program which just runs a club and then the body program runs everything club and body that he uses with know every serious student he’s using and every swing that he gets that’s loaded in the gears that he didn’t capture there’s no way you you would I would have to have

The software I’d have to want to look look at dead people I I have to do it a different way I have to go he’s running up this road I gotta jump off the Long Island Expressway here at Exit 30 and I gotta go up the the you know the the

Frog’s Neck Bridge you know because I mean if we’re trying to get to the West Coast I ain’t catching him he’s younger than me there’s no catching him so the people that have spent enough time with him to not think what I just said is like hyperbole it’s not by the way

Anybody want to put him on stage with somebody else won’t be very good for the other person when you have figured out that he knows that much because you’ve gone to a seminar or something like that when you’re voting for them you’re clicking on them when you get to the top 10

He might get a number one vote number two vote if you’re a Jacobs 3D Ambassador there’s another thing about the list there’s a a certain amount of vote for your team why wouldn’t there be um so stack and tilt is co closely aligned with Gulf Tech very closely nck clear waters

Director of instruction for for Gulf Tech I’m looking looking here in Ni Clearwater number 17 was number 22 he’s getting a lot of Golf Tech votes there’s a lot of Gulf tech people in that 3,000 people there’s a lot of stacking tilters in those 3,000 people why wouldn’t they vote for

Them not not because it’s it’s nepotism they they’re in that system because they think it’s right yeah right they believe in it they believe in it so obviously they’re gonna vote Andy plumber uh Mike Bennett Nick Clearwater so if you’re a Jacobs 3D Ambassador and you sat in the

Room with the guy with Stephen nbut you could ask him any question you want you realize how much stuff he knows and you’re going out and teaching it you’re charging $100 an hour more than you were charging 18 months ago because you’re teaching so much better he’s probably

Getting a one two or three vote for you and you get enough of those and there he is right now ju ju to end the thing on Michael but he’s a good one to talk about this next thing so he was 30 on the previous list there were 17

People who have gone to the Legends list that were ahead of him so if he would have just held serve 13 people let’s see I’m 13 and I was 25 to 11 yeah there might have been 13 or 14 people but let’s just say there

Were 14 people so four 13 13 people 30 is 17 right so he’s 17 if everybody holds serve and and everybody’s not going to hold Serve by the way and I’ll explain that in a second now he’s just got to move up five places right at the end of the day just

Like there were 11 people ahead of me and I basically moved up one place so that’s something else that people have to kind of throw in their calculator now here’s an interesting thing right here there’s a ton of people on this list who got on who’ve been on before I

I’ll rattle off some names for you James lights um who’s a friend of mine about an hour that way um I don’t know if Mulligan’s ever been on the list Gary gilchris has been on the list before Johnson Clair has never been on the list but there’s there’s

Somebody else right um mcettrick was on the list of bunch back in the day uh Mike leov was on the list of bunch back in the day they’ll back on the list how the hell did that happen well I explain it to you folks so you got 3,000 people

Voting all right so you’re you’re you’re Rank and file you’re not knowledgeable like Pete you’re not obsessed with all this stuff like me you’re just a good teacher maybe a head pro someplace you’ve been voting the last 10 years five times right it’s every two years and you’ve been

Voting these 50 people you know maybe different every time and now you’re voting your top 10 and you know who you’ve been voting for your top 10 Butch one lead better two Haney three right you’ve been voting the the allstar team yeah you’ve been voting the Dream Team the troubleshooters right guess what

Can’t vote any of those guys no more so now you’re the guy who’s not on The Cutting Edge you don’t know what Jacob’s 3D is you don’t know uh how many semar stand not Le’s talked that in the last three years a lot okay and he’s been

Around forever but he’s so but you do know I got 10 votes H now you’re voting name recognition name recognition yeah so James lights who doesn’t know who James is who who who’s never heard of Johnson Clair who who never heard of Mike leov or Gary Gilchrist their name recognition is in the

80s the 80 perents so it that’s why so you know like somebody like Jacob saying well he’s just moved up five places yeah but he had to feed all of those guys too the guys who are now getting votes because they have name recognition so the number one thing obviously if

You’re you know one of the things I want to make sure we get to here is hey you’re not on the list and you want to get on the list I’ve been that guy right and and and I said I was going to start with this but I

Didn’t um uh bzel you’re full of it because you used to criticize the list more than any that’s right because I knew I was supposed to be on it I called my shot didn’t I so all you people out there that say I didn’t I called my shot

George pepper told you right and and without look without a lot of help right David’s been off the regular tour for a while it’s not like I got a a current player that’s playing the tour it’s not like um some some company like you know I don’t want to mention any the ones

That have but let’s just say Callaway you know I used to be a Callaway Stafford not anymore but they were nice to me they didn’t put me on a pedestal and parade me around the world I didn’t have any help I did this on my own right uh

So you want to get on the list here’s the number one most important thing name recognition how is somebody like Pete papait right here this nice looking man with the slightly gray slightly Gray beard salt and pepper salt and pepper how is he try to vote a click for you

Much less a top 10 if he doesn’t even know who you are and you don’t have to say well if he’s a v he it’s his job to yeah it’s probably you should probably spend five 10 minutes a few days in a row kind of looking at list and trying to figure out

Oh I see some omissions I think I’m going to vote for those guys if I see him in the 163 and if I don’t like you did with Jeff Mangum you’re GNA you’re going to write him in okay so if so you have to then think about how do I get

Name recognition without doing something like you know ridiculous like streaking through the middle of the PGA show right well the easiest way to do it is with a guy who plays good on TV and they mention your name a bunch Yep this is a and I know he just they

Just split up Joe mayo and and and Victor havin and let me tell you which was surprising that was very surprising you know he’s a he’s a he likes he’s he’s cycled through a few teachers but here’s a they had a great year okay let’s let let’s be honest here

Um this is strictly me off the top of my head I don’t like watching golf on TV I watch all the majors I’ll watch some of the tournaments I don’t even watch the local tournament on TV because I think the coverage is awful terrible the PE

The things that they talk about on there if that was a podcast it’d be the lowest ranked podcast in the history of podcast okay so let’s let’s no argument here right no okay so Joe Mayo’s name this is Brian Manel who doesn’t like watching TV

Golf and the most TV golf I watch is to one day every two weeks I’m at English turn because I’m mostly here in the studio teaching and they don’t even have the sound on on I heard his name 50 times this year so that’s a lot if

You’re some voter you might have not known who he was it seems to be impossible to not know who he was but point is he he finished 20th or whatever you know I got my list right here where was Joe at here he was uh 21st there you go okay so

There’s not ranked they went from no rank yeah so and and another guy that’s been critical a little less over the years but hey you get voted on you get voted on so student that’s the easiest way to do it now is it easy to go find a

Player and we could talk about tour teaching for four episodes I’m gonna not get sidetracked there okay second thing you don’t have a player you’re a good teacher you think you know I think I’m one of the top 100 teachers content that people can get to I know people were talking about the

Gulf swing on the dam internet I remember running into one of these forums and I was searching about the golfing machine you know back in the day you know golfing machine teacher former and I’m looking and I’m going these people are talking about golf let’s see oh how to fix your slice I’m

Really good at that let’s see what no no no no did y’all ever consider the club face just asking for a friend you know I mean I got thrown off I’m just curious I got thrown off a couple forums basically for arguing something now that you would

Get thrown off a forum for arguing the other way so I had a piece of that um that should be on my resume Ryan Manzel made it an industry standard to say fix the club face first on a slicer and it doesn’t matter if I was the first one Columbus wasn’t the first

Guy to America but the day goes we we like to we like to claim things for ourselves okay so so I started my own web forum and I took over the damn internet for a couple of years so so every teacher pretty much who’s on that

Top 50 list that I got on this thing and the top 100 I got on this computer 90% of them were on the Forum they might have had a name that looked like you know p pop and they might have been like uh uh uh salt and pepper he

Didn’t know who he was right screen name so like those guys on on Golf Works I like having fun on Golf Works and from time to time and then I get frustrated but they they’re all madeup names now who are those people you don’t know it

Might be somebody you know might be the guy lives next door I have no idea but all right so content right I had an opinion on everything I did articles people went well you know could you do a video on it then I started doing videos

And I started selling the videos so you got to get content out there then once I got on the first list the duno found that I was good at content and and and I did Bunches of Articles and videos for them so then Michael jacobs’s favorite

Line This is saying a lot now this guy’s been doing this for almost 30 years his favorite line in golf teaching was uttered to me he wasn’t there by Rick Martino who was formerly the director of instruction for the entire PGA of America and I walked up

I walked up to him and I went there needs to be some kind of way like you like have a qualifying system if you’re some relatively unknown person who might be good at presenting in in a national teaching Summit if you’re any good I’ll ask you to speak at the section level

Had this monotone I can’t I can’t do it Michael doesn’t better from listening to me imitate Rick um you you have to start seminar you I just went and did uh Illinois because uh uh Jim mccan hurt his foot and me and Jason Bale went so there were people who probably never

Heard me talk they know who I am you know now my name recognition is probably n 90% Jason Bale’s name recognition in in of those 3,000 people is probably less than 50% he’s a very good coach with a good resume and a bunch of good players on tour stuff like that well

Guess what there were 150 people in that room they all know who Jason Bale is now so if you don’t think if they liked his talk he had has potential to grab a couple three four five 6 7 8 nine 10 20 extra clicks because he talked at the

Illinois PGA section teaching Summit then you you don’t know anything right so he he’s gonna grow very fast especially if he continue I I I agree with him about how coaches are compensated his uh cause I’ll call it uh he I think he’s nailed that what’s his

Take there I don’t maybe I didn’t hear it that the co when when uh courses hire a coach if you’re going to go work at a 36 hole facility wherever you’re going to work the the the old the model not even old it’s always been the model is

Well you’re going to uh we we we’re not going to pay a salary we’ll pay a very very small salary and you you can eat what you hunt and what you kill yeah and Jason was uh he was pushing strongly against that he said because if the golf

Experience is the number almost the number one thing or could be number one thing that people are at that club for why is the GM paid a salary why is the chef paid a salary why is the director of golf paid a salary and then the director of instruction or and the

Superintendent the only one in that on that management team that’s not is the director of instruction and and and I’m surprised he didn’t tell you all about it that that that part of the industry is whack I mean when he came on the show that that

Was the focus of our discussion I agree with him I don’t know exactly how I would do it if you made me Zar of the world but I I can tell you it wouldn’t be the way it is right now um and I’m looking at my content thing books

Articles posts videos right posts just go go on Twitter and have a comment on everything you know live lessons look at every chance if you think the best thing about me I think I know a lot about the golf swing I don’t think there’s five more

People um you total stuff I be right up there with McLean or somebody I’ve read every book and I got access to all the stuff that he doesn’t have so the stuff that he doesn’t know because he was friends with this guy I taught that guy

I know because of Steve and Mike right so but live lessons are my thing that’s why I was always I want to teach off National teaching exhibition because I ain’t I ain’t losing like look Michael Jordan in his prom might have not won the one-on-one basketball tournament he might have not

Won he wasn’t going to look like a scrub no he was gonna scare the hell out of whoever won on the way to that guy winning and that’s the same thing I feel like would happen with me so every chance that I had have had whether it’s

And I I’ve said this I think people were kidding I gave free lessons with Whiffle balls into one of those you know Nets that do this the net return net in the produce section at Kroger on Shelbyville Road in Louisville because they asked me to do it and I went

Absolutely so if you’re I’m you know been playing drums my whole life if you think you’re good all you want is can I sit in here can I I used to go you know years after I played with bands and every time I went to see a live band I

Would ask to sit in and I remember when I just was getting too far away from it like I struggled to keep up you know like with I said need to stop doing this you know but you know there was a point where you know it it it was

Impressive and so you know if you think you can teach every chance you have to do something live um that’s what that’s that’s what you’re gonna do now the next thing is right all right the next reason somebody might vote for you they first

They got to hear of you and it’s of they who who did he ever teach or you know whatever he’s supposed to be so good why does he make such a crappy swing out of it right like you know uh Mark evered who’s been a a big teacher in uh golfer

Machine guy from um Canada he he he goes on the internet for a while he gets frustrated when everybody gets away and nice back on and he was asking that question I think yesterday day before do you think it matters that a teacher can demonstrate absolutely if you think that

If I told David Toms I remember you’re gonna have to feel like you’re hitting a high cut you I was trying to get he was starting to kind of like round off his shoulders too much we were in streetport this is 100 years ago at least 20 and

It’s been 35 years since the first time I gave him a lesson and there was a tree at the at the at the at the range we were at and he goes like you’re hitting it over that tree I said go ahead and try to hit it over the tree that’ll work

You know and he couldn’t get it halfway up the tree he went you you H it over that tree I hit it 15 ft over that tree said he looked at me he says I guess you do know something it matters now you can say it doesn’t matter bull it matters a

Lot of Swag there’s a lot of teachers on that list that never make swings in front of people that’s the reason for that I’m not saying I swing at it like Carlos Franco with his prom but you can look at it goes he probably know and he does what he said he does

What he teaches Ah that’s another thing right so um you know who’s very good at that is Derek deminsky golf better toon yeah I know the name the short game stuff that and he hits the shots and I gets nothing he hits the shots yes there you go very impressive like I I’ve

Always been a good bunker player like I you know I remember there was a a seminar in Kentucky and uh uh Mark Stan bar who was who used to be on these lists and and he’s a good guy and he he did it with dear friend of mine Ed I’ve

Arguing and and I went you know he says yeah let me do this and he’s hitting bunker shots and uh I wentw you know you got to be able to get that one closer than that now come on come on I’m just like kind of Goen him you know and he

Goes you think you got something I took the money clip out and flipped it I’ve done that a couple times famously at sem once that’s another story for another day so okay now you’re what’s another reason besides Student Success they know your name okay I know who Pete

Papovich is he teaches Joe pcpis is play one two times on the by.com tour and I like his I like the book he wrote you know you know putting like a genius right okay so mentorship so if what you know how to do in teaching is worth a flip then you can

Duplicate it if the idea of McDonald’s was good they could have another store and another store and right get the rest of History so you got a Bend Doyle the bendoy tree is impressive you could say whatever you want about Ben whatever the bendoy tree is impressive I almost busted brandle

Shamble about that but I’m not gonna waste any time with brandle shamble today but another day okay so Pete papovich oh yeah Joe pascas and and and and Pete Nunes they those two guys are his proteges they’re good teachers dang it click okay so you you’re your mentorship right and then at

The end of the day I used to hate this when I was younger but now that I got a lot of gray hair up there history Oh’s been doing it forever yeah if you’re any good not only will they ask you to speak at the section level but if you’re any

Good you’ll sustain it for some length of time so now you know somebody sitting in there voting on the that that that’s going to get you clicks and top tens on list you know why Brand X with the committee is different different one of the things I’ve said

Consistently Pete over the years about how do you get on the list you have to get on by the preponderance of the evidence you have to be so good that the committee goes that’s what happened with me there was people in room didn’t want me on

That damn list but the guys who said no no no it’s just time probably should have been 10 years ago we put him in time out it’s time right put me in time out I cried when I one of those lists came out because I knew I had a great

Year David had a great year and I’m looking I’m going how can I not be on this stupid list so it got to be I was just just getting too big I had the bully pulpit of that Forum right this is before social right web forums were big I was gonna start

Roasting the list like peanuts one name at a time and I would have done good dude and I didn’t care if I was ever gonna get on I was gonna take everybody out with me you were going one way or the other and you know what they

Went you know this crazy guy going to put him on on right no but I mean at the end of the day I had done enough that you know the anti- summit one you know that was like oh shoot he’s bringing scientists into the game okay

So that’s how you get on you you you you you have these categories which are self-evident and you have to have not just enough to really be better than the guy who’s 100 but they don’t rank the other list right it’s just a 100 people alphabetical order no particular right

You don’t have to just be the 99th guy you pretty much if you if you’ve been like you know doing this for 10 15 years and you haven’t made a list and you think you should and you have a resume really that you should be on you’re gonna have to like three

Double triple your efforts and just make it where well sh we got to put Pete on he’s he’s the man right that’s that’s it and they criticize it all they want it’s it’s how it’s done right and it’s two separate ways and I like the I like the

Ranking I I wish the other one was ranked it would be a lot more work but but but I like the ranking I like to know okay you know I’m I’m moving up you know I’m moving up because if I went the other way I would go what did I do the

Last two year I really because about I didn’t do you know I haven’t done my taxes yet this year kind of worry about every time you know I’m going to go if I really make more money or did I fly around the world not make more money but

I am I what am what am I doing you know to is my career or you know still remember there was a teacher one day on a certain trajectory yeah it’s on a certain that guy that says I don’t understand why you did what you did you

Know one of these things that happened he says your career was on this certain trajectory hey buddy if you watch this there’s certain trajectory still going this way by the way a friend a friend of mine by the way certain trajectory yeah right here take some of this you know

But I mean it’s a true story but the point is if it matters to you you have to look at what like I’ve scribbled some stuff down know of things that I need to do better in the next couple years it’s it’s going to take some work

Now look at these people ahead of me right they they they all have two two things in common they either world famous taught a world famous person that had a national TV show of some sort and Michael Jacobs most of them and and I’m not

Saying this in B but they’re younger u i I don’t think I don’t think that I think that just obviously you you took the people out I don’t think the younger I don’t think that has that much it has something to do with the tour there’s no

Doubt about that we could have a separate whole thing on tour instruction which just I don’t want to get started it gives me heartburn but the but I think there’s some skew younger on tour but when you’re voting Butch was gonna get n Mark Blackburn 4426 votes right well I mean younger

Because they have gonna get 10,000 yeah I mean they have the energy to if if they have if you both had five things on your list that you need to do to get oh yeah energy yeah those guys have the energy to put an extra maybe another hour a day

Eny we we might put it in for a week and it’s like boy I need to kind of sleep in the next couple days just ju just look at this top 10 Mark black okay so Mark Blackburn’s teaching two of the best 15 players in the world right TPI

For 99 years you know third wheel on TPI Chris KO taught Tiger Woods right he’s got a couple players now Jason day them matter he taught Tiger Woods okay he had National TV shows um uh Sean Foley taught Tiger Woods doesn’t matter what he’s doing taught Tiger Woods right cam

McCormick he taught Jordan Speed second most popular person in golf right had a national TV show Claude Harman I third give me a break that’s a pretty good name to have James sikman okay so I thought I really didn’t see it coming right I love James to death I I

Think that says something about the short game list I mean James teaches full swing too but I mean I think you know short game has become so much more important because there more people out there with the Chip And Yips now than any time in 600 years they’ve been

Playing golf they keep cutting those Fairways around the greens like about this right uh Martin Chuck okay well he’s an exception but who’s going to beat Martin Chuck on content so he’s coming up with these training AIDS or he’s repurposing other people’s ideas very good at that

He’s a super likable guy and he’s everywhere right so I mean you you you you name recognition how many people in the 3,000 never heard of Martin Chuck who maybe right I’ve known him since I was 16 and he was 19 Michael Jacobs talked about it already Dana D Hey

Listen if you’re gonna have name recognition it helps to have a name to remember that’s a good name now the day that his mom and dad went theist let’s see Joe delist Pete delist Dana let me tell you I got him some votes because it was a I remembered that name from the

Old Forum he was on my old Forum like of most of these guys it’s stuck in my head now he’s done plenty since then his resume speaks for itself Stan Utley short game short game is Big Dave Phillips TPI is like the second or third or fourth biggest hammer to have in your

Hand in the world he got 7,000 people that are TPI certified the little Italian boy from shet manzela Andy plumber like we said you got stack and tilt Network he’s going to get first and second place votes you got the Golf Tech Network I mean come on and he’s a great

Teacher with a great resume Boyd summer Hayes everybody in the family can play right I mean right yeah and he’s got Tony Tony’s his his horse absolutely um David or has that short game thing again see more of a putting guy than a pitching guy but right and and a regular

Teacher but more known for Nick Clearwater biggest company in the whole wide world that gives golf instructions George G is uh you know uh ubiquitous but interestingly 11 to 18 so you got to look at you know like it’s a when you when you have a quick rise out of

Nowhere then it’s easy to have a little bit quicker uh you know fall and he’s he’s re sort of Reinventing himself a lot more Juniors and stuff like that now Scott Hamilton’s given five billion lessons on tour I think most people vote and know that everybody knows James lights and Joe Mayo Bill

Harmon he’s a Harmon and he’s you know he’s Mike Bennett C Andy plumber Andrew rice content content content ping ping saves a couple careers I’m not saying saved his career but the Ping thing they decided to go all in like we’re gonna we’re gonna go all in on this teaching

And stuff you know these other companies are scared of it ain’t that interesting and had heard ping sales these other compan you know ought to look at that and go hey we can have a little team of uh those guys have and I’ve had three of them I’ve had Marty on at Eric

Hendrickson and Paul wood and we talked about an engineering company in the creative side of it they actually schedule creative meetings and I I think those guys are doing it’s like they’re Trend setting again again all you 100% but all these other companies have the

Ability to do this and they I know they think the marketing departments think remember now this is a familyowned business ping they can do whatever that they want these people that are on that you know the stock exchanges they get a little worried like oh yeah you’re going

To we’re gonna you know get these teachers involved and we’re going to screw everything up um Titus has done it a little bit with TPI and who they brought in you know they but not that many not that many people have gotten like you know like they they put up on a

Pedestal you know and and and make a headliner out of them like like uh not saying Blackburn wasn’t a headliner before they gave him the chance to I’m just saying I can’t if you put a gun to my head and said come with the fourth person I don’t know who that is Bernie

Nar okay everybody knows who Bernie is who’s anybody in the business now that might only be 70% of the voting but of those 70 65% that know who Bernie is he probably got a bunch of top 10 with these other guys not being able to be

Voted for top 10 Cheryl Anderson had had a great couple years good teacher good the the the fact that she put it in a tournament and made the cut in the ladies open everybody goes see that that back to the mark evered thing so as you

Go down the list the people who think the lists are you don’t sea Webb 34 my buddy what the hell am AMG everywhere so yeah you know it’s not Jamie Mulligan he runs the teaching Summit the biggest non-national teaching Summit he’s the Grand Puba of the SE of

The section teaching Summit in in uh Southern California I got to talk you know so you look there’s not anybody that you go man this don’t make any sense it all makes sense so the people who are saying you know the list are full of it they just they need to watch

This podcast twice it is somebody who who wasn’t afraid to speak their mind and I I think that you you know as you told that story earlier about the the the ideas uh that come about as things evolve golf game and and coaching and everything else and

And the vote to where it was going to be hey let’s let’s have business casual with a sport coat instead of the tie and everything else and that that small group um nicked it and you I I have said many times that the one of the best

Things about golf is it it’s uh history and its connection to tradition but also the thing that holds golf back is its history and its connection to tradition um so I I think you as someone who voiced their opinion in an industry that tended not to want to do that wanted to

Be more stoic and things like that so by the way by the way I want to go on record of saying this the people that talk about people with opinions that shouldn’t that they shouldn’t have opinions they’re slicing everybody up behind closed doors like it’s going out of style not

Saying all but so many of them it’s like it you know politically correct per per perfectly determines what you say and what you don’t say yeah you you you could be on one end of it and just whatever comes out of your your coconut like Jeff Mangum you you could be

Somebody who everybody thinks there’s a couple people that everybody think that on this list that everybody think like are holier than thou and they are the biggest crybabies behind closed doors you wouldn’t believe them if I told you and then there’s I think to me I’m somewhere in the middle because I can’t

Spit everything that’s in my head out you I get arrested so you you you there’s a balance there and and the industry is changing when it comes to that because it has to the internet you’re gonna you you you got people who who didn’t make

The list this time who big deals on the internet and you’re going to wind up with a situation like gankers you’re going to have a guy was cadan and then 10 years later is on the cover of a magazine because golf diers thought it was a good idea to put them on the

Cover the point of the matter is that you can’t avoid the the the the vastness of the internet and all of this the the way it used to be stuff no the world has changed uh there’s no doubt about it completely with with the YouTube and Instagram and Facebook and Twitter and

Everything your ability to self promote you you don’t need to go through traditional channels or those green coats as you referred to them earlier you you you don’t get asked to like you know famously I’ve never spoken 19 countries been been the headliner in a bunch of them never spoken at a PGA

Teaching and coaching Summit National and obviously if you think about it for a second that doesn’t even make any sense there’s committees they get in the room all you need one guy they go right so and you don’t want to argue with that guy so it shouldn’t be that

Way but if I have a problem with it and believe me I’ll kiss the stage the day I finally talk about one of those things you can start your own damn thing the open Forum was my idea what a dummy right I gave it to those guys right away I wanted to attend

It there’ll be 600 people in the room here in three weeks you can have your own seminar ain’t nobody taking that mic from Mikes nobody’s taking that mic from that son of gun right who was going to ask him to talk in a national Summit

He’s got the mic in his damn hand he could talk as long as he wants to he’s part owner of the damn thing so the the opportunity if you don’t like the opportunities that out there you can create your own damn opportunity like I did with my web

For would would you consider yourself within the coaching or and or the golf industry a disruptor I tried like hell I think it’s stunk uh my best friends in the business let’s say the eight or nine males and about I’m about to give a lesson here in seven minutes to a female

Who should be on the top 100 and probably will’ll get on it eventually she I don’t want to I don’t want to throw the names off but she’s got a less than six and a half minutes with me um so tell me what we’re just talking about

I’m I’m sorry I I if you’re a disruptor did yeah yeah so so the point so the point of the matter is is that you if you don’t like the way things are what are you going to do it’s the the the the industry is oh but friends so if

You took my top 10 friends in the business they all think this is the stupidest business in the world these are successful people now none of those 10 people are not successful and they all think it’s total garbage and I’m going to tell you the number one reason it’s total

Garbage who’s covering it there’s no coverage of it you you you got a guy you know it’s news the whole you know Joe Joe and uh Victor havin thing it’s news I knew about it 10 days ago a regular reporter famous you know he broke the story shouldn’t there be somebody covering dolphin

Instruction yeah I think uh L is doing is doing a decent job of he’s just not I think he he he he could be the one to Champion that cause he obviously could do it he’s not doing he’s not covering golf instruction he’s he’s talking a lot about the golf

Swing almost looks to me like he thinks maybe you know next career might be teaching maybe he’d be good at it who knows but the point is it the number one thing would be cover it like every other damn cover it like they cover college golf football coaching cover the damn

Thing first and the second thing is there needs to be more emphasis on showing live lessons to the massive audience that is the 50 million people who play golf if you if every one of those people on the top 50 list had to post up a lesson from last year or the

Next year you have a whole year you’re teaching every day I’m starting in four minutes if that lesson’s good I can put that one up I don’t have to pick one that’s a dud gas yeah I think of all the things gas did putting his live lessons on YouTube was a very

Very I think if you those two things if somebody covered it and everybody says oh there’s no nobody’s interested yeah yeah yeah ask that guy Ryan French about things that people are interested in right Monday Q nobody was covering that either but it turns out a lot of people

Were interested so the industry really doesn’t know like like Michael Jacob said greatest line ever the powers that be are trying to save their job this month they’re not trying to save golf somebody could do a lot for the teaching industry to do those two things make it

A point like you should be like a requirement of a PGA member post up a lesson every year that would that would change the world but oh who’s this guy oh Pete poic where’s he at Carolina okay I wanna I’ve watch this podcast I’m gonna watch this lesson now it’s a

Handpicked lesson but so what you go I kind of like you know what I think I might take a lesson from him or they watch your lesson and they go man this guy that I’m working with he doesn’t have the bedside man this papovich guy

Has I gotta find me a teacher you see what I’m saying so those two things those two things could could would would do a lot for for um the industry that I I love and can’t wait to be in the mix here in a couple of weeks at the PGA

Show but uh the main thing that I want to leave everybody with on this one is somebody had to do this somebody with knowledge I don’t think very many people who are not like directly connected to these lists know as much as I do or care

To know and I just think that if I helped anybody at least understand it or help them figure out what they need to do if they think they deserve to be on it or want to be on it one day then you know it was but I talked to you anytime

Buddy you know just for the hell of it hey I don’t I I know you’re I don’t want you to be late for your lesson even know going to be it’s always a pleasure to have you on you always bring great info and you’re very informative and help

People the way you do when you’re Co coaching and teaching 62 years old I got energy baby great talking buy I’ll see you in a couple weeks at PJ sh absolutely all right if you got a run