Get a Grip on Your Game with Alex Trujillo

Alex Trujillo is the Director of Sales and Fitting for JumboMax Grips. Formerly a PGA TOUR representative for FlightScope Golf, Alex is one of the top golf data analysts and advisors in the game, and he has leveraged his extensive knowledge of ballistics, and golf club performance to the world of grips and their impact on golf club performance.

Alex joins #OntheMark to introduce JumboMax grips and describe the advantages of using a weighted, oversized grip as it pertains to increased clubhead speed and better clubface control.

He explains to the influence and effects of the grips as follows:
* How shot patterns can be tightened and straightened with different weighting of the grip.
* Counter-balanced grips have been, and are used but some of the great ball-strikers like Jack Nicklaus, Bryson DeChambeau and Sergio Garcia.
* The weight and swing-weight of a golf club and how a grip and its mass can influence those.
* The size effect of a grip and how it promotes a better hold on the club, more control of shot patterns by affecting clubface rates of closure, and how it can reduce hand and wrist injury and pain.
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[Music] longtime friend of mine who looks like he’s on the west coast of California on 17mi drive. Alex Trillo, how are you, bro? What’s going on, Mark? Nice to see you. It was great to see you here just a few weeks ago where you you rock my world, man. And I mean you normally when you were with Flight Scope, you do the same thing whenever we visited, but now that you with Jumbo Max Grips, you know, I was I was fascinated when you caught me at the Ryder Cup at Beth Page Black and you’re like, I need to come and see you. I was like, all right, cuz when you when you talk, I listen. And um over lunch you described to me how you were going to get rid of my late wide right miss that I had by changing the weight of my grips. And I was like, “Yeah, it makes sense, but this guy’s a nutcase.” And the proof is in the pudding. So I need you to explain to folks how this came about. How with a grip handle, a grip, you can change just about everything in the golf swing, please. Yeah, we what we basically did is we we counterbalanced your grip. So, we went with a what we call a tour series Jumbo Max. Now, these these we have these grips in all different sizes. People think Jumbo Max is just a big grip. We go from a standard grip all the way to an extra large, which is what Bryson plays. This is actually Bryson’s grip right here. All right. Um, so what we did is we we put a grip in your hand that weighs about 90 g. And so essentially we’ve moved the balance point up the shaft which allows you um to basically stop the handle faster which in essence whips the club head. And so you’ll see you know players will see more launch um a little more speed and sometimes even a little more right to left uh draw bias for a right-handed golfer. It’s incredible. And you describe the physics of it. Now, I want to go through the physics because people look, our fans are educated, they’re open-minded, and a lot of folks, in fact, after a social media post have reached out to me already. And stand by at the end of this conversation, we’re going to share a promo code so you can get your Jumbo Max grips. Um, but I I need you to go through the physics of it all because you just said essentially you can stop, and we use the term loosely, or slow the grip down, which propels the club around you faster for more speed. for me squaring up the face a little easier. Help help us understand that please. Yeah. So, we’ve we’ve done a ton of research uh you know with different technologies, Gears Golf, all the all the launch monitors and what what we found is that as you start to add weight in the handle, um you see that the player actually can in transition once they get into impact they can slow the handle faster. But that in essence creates that whipping effect. And and this is actually not new. Um you know, arguably the best player of all time, Jack Nicholas, would backweight his clubs. Um so he would add weight into the handle. U there’s other players um that do it. Sergio Garcia uh back weights his clubs. Bryson back weights his clubs. Bryson’s grip weighs 123 gram. So in essence, for context, what would a regular grip the skinny grip as you guys call it? What would a skinny grip weigh-ish? To put this into context for the listener and the viewer, roughly anywhere between 50 to the lightest are about 50 to 70 grams depending on the type of grip you purchase or the the texture of the grip. So Bryson’s is more than twice the weight of a regular grip. Yeah. So 123 g. So the extra weight slows it down which then force has to go somewhere and it goes out to the club head and kind of like you were telling me this. I’m like this makes sense. It’s kind of like the water skier behind the speedboat and the speedboat slows down and the water skier gets slung around. It’s the same principle of physics here. Yeah. Or I, you know, think of a figure skater when they’re spinning and they want to go really fast, they bring their arms and hands in and they can spin like a top really fast. The moment they want to slow down, they start to expand the arms. And so it that’s in essence what you’re doing is you have more mass closer to your your source of centrifugal force. It’s closer to your body, what’s creating the motion. And so therefore the the implement which is a club head starts to get thrown out or or starts to whip and u and that’s what we were doing with the counterbalance. Mhm. So you gave me essentially a counterbalanced heavier grip handle than I was used to and it helped me eliminate the drastic right miss. But for the folks who miss left, you can change weights in the grip also to help them straighten out that shot. So, I mean, you’re basically using weighting of club and the overall mass of the thing versus the swing weight to help people tighten up their misses. Absolutely. So, here is um this is the ultra light grip in Bryson’s size, this bottom grip. And sorry for the I got my background effects on, but this is the lightweight grip. So, it’s the same size, same circumference, same everything. But Bryson’s grip, the heavy grip weighs 123 g. In the lightweight version of his grip, it weighs 50 grams. Okay? So, for those that don’t want that want the bigger size, but don’t want the extra weight, um, they can go on the ultral light. Now, the ultral light, what we find with the lighter grip handle is that typically that lowers your launch uh, and promotes more of a little bit of a of a fade bias. For a right-handed golfer, it would be more of a left to right uh, trajectory. And so or for for the people that maybe don’t want to go uh to a lighter swing weight um because the heavier swing weight, the heavier grip is going to lighten your swing weight. So um we we are of the belief that swing weight is important as far as it goes, keeping everything consistent. Um but we don’t believe that a lighter swing weight um uh is detrimental to better players. I mean Bryson is anywhere between C3 to C5. Um, you know, I’ve worked with other players that are that are C7 to C9. Uh, I believe Ratif Gusen is anywhere between the C9 to D0 range. He plays our extra small um tour series grip, which is 90 g. So, um, what I tell people is it’s not just about the size, it’s about the weight. And we have over 36 different combinations from a standard size grip all the way to an extra large and all the weights in between. Crazy. Uh but but just again I’m I’m on the the shot straightening trend train here where so if you get a lighter grip because it’s lighter you can move your hands about you faster and so the club head trails a bit more. So you’re going to then as a result promote a more open club face which will lend itself to more of a fade. So, so just by adjusting not just size but weight of grip changes the dynamics of how the club feels to you and how you can control the handle. And as the old the little pro Eddie Merren once once said, swing the handle and if you swing the handle properly, the head can only do what you’re doing. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. So, um, yeah, that’s what we’re doing. I mean, we’re in the business of, you know, grip fitting and our our little slogan is grip fitting changes everything because it truly does. I mean, we’re in an industry where we we fit for everything, Mark. Yeah. Except the grip. You know, you go get fit and they’ll say, “Hey, well, what color or what texture do you want?” And that’s just kind of about it, right? And you know, our It’s funny, John Masanobyl, who’s the president of Jumbo, I’ve known him for many years, uh, he’s been working with Bryson. I mean, Bryson’s been playing our grip since he was 15 years old. Okay. And John always would tell me, he’s like, you know, 500 years ago, somebody wrapped leather around a hickory stick and that became the standard size of our grips. We We all have different size hands. We all move our bodies differently. We move our hands differently. Our wrist angles are different. Why are we all playing the same size grip? And so, you know, we’ve gone on this journey of fitting for an actual grip. And you experienced it firsthand. Yeah, the fitting is pretty intense. Um, okay. Quickly, let’s put you into context. Uh, Alex, one of the bright minds in the game in my opinion. I’ve known you for a long time. You were uh uh you’re still a ball flight data specialist because of your work with Flight Scope. What promoted the change to grip handles, which is crazy, but the more I listen to you guys, the more you’re on the forefront front of technology. Why? Why the change? Yeah. I mean, I just uh I was at a, you know, point in my career where I was uh needed to make a change and, you know, I I like I said, I have a good relationship with John Mazanoval and he’s like, “Hey, man. I I think we we got to go down this road of of understanding how to fit grips and how to get people in the right weights because we were we were seeing and I mean I’ I’ve been playing I’ve been with Jumbo Max for a year and a half, but I’ve been playing the grip for seven years. Okay. So, I believe in because you’ve known Bryson for the flat scope relationship, correct? So, I know I’ve known Bryce since uh since he was an amateur at Bay Hill. Uh and I worked with him for about six or seven years uh doing all of his Flight Scope data and um yeah, and so I I believed in the product and I was like I you know, I told John when I had a conversation with him, I said, you know, I think that you know, you guys are on the right track on on making an impact in the game with with grip fitting and you know, I I think I want to be part of that. And so that’s that’s kind of what what happened. And it’s been a year and a half later. It’s been a whirlwind. I mean, it’s um we’re fitting some top top players. We’re seeing a lot of great results. Um I I got to tell you this quick story. I had a I had a player call me who had just lost his car, lost his lost his cornfairy status, and was kind of struggling. longtime player that that that we’ve uh me and John have known personally, good buddy of ours, and he’s like, “Hey, man. You mind coming out and just seeing what we can do?” He’s like, “I’m not too big on the big grip thing, but I’m I’m willing to give anything a try.” So, all right. So, I head over I head over to uh Texas and I go see him and he’s um playing a skinny grip. We we made some adjustments to his clubs because his lie angles were a little wacky. But long story short, um shorter statued player, kind of small hands. Um so he was looking for two things. He was looking for consistency and he was looking to see if he can get a little bit of speed, especially with a driver, right? And so we put we went through two days of basically trying everything. And we ended up in an extra small tour series grip, which is a 90 grip. And we took his swing weight from D5 to C, I think it was right around C8C9. Mhm. And after he the first three balls he hit with a counterbalance grip, he said, “I haven’t been able to hit a ball like that in years.” And he said, “It feels effortless.” And so this is a player who was struggling, you know, trying to find it. Long story short, he goes to stage one in Arizona, shoots even par the first two days, shoots 11 under on the third day and shoots six under on the last day. And he gets through stage one. And he, you know, I spoke to him and he’s like, it feels effortless. He’s like, I know where the ball’s going. I got speed. I got launch. And so, uh, it was cool to see, you know, to help a guy that’s played at at the I mean, he’s been on the PGA Tour. Um, and now he’s struggling. And it was really cool to to just help him. We we made some changes with the grip. We did tweak the equipment a little bit, but we made a drastic change in the grips from a standard grip to now a bigger grip and heavy grip. And, you know, he’s like, “Wow, I I I feel like I got my game back.” So, uh, it’s impactful. Let’s do this. Um, I first want to want you to explain to folks swing weight because it’s one of those things that every golf has heard, but a lot of golfers don’t understand. And with this show, I’m a big one for not just information, but the understanding of it, too. So, I want to talk swing weight versus um overall weight of the club. But then I do want to go to that thing because like or or or the sensory the tactile um impact of it all because when you’re used to feeling a certain size grip and then suddenly you pick up the big one, you’re like whoa. And then after you’ve had the big one in your hand for a little while, you go back to the skinny one, you’re like, whoa. So, so it’s a crazy thing I want to talk about, but first help us with swing weight, what the numbers and stuff mean, how it feels to the golfer, and then what the overall weight uh has to do with the golf club and performance of the uh shots. Yeah. So, the easiest way to explain swing weight is if you had a um what do you call that in the kids playground where two kids sit on it? Yeah. Seesaw. A tea. Seesaw. Seesaw. Okay. So, let’s think of a seessaw. So, um, if the seesaw was perfectly even, we we would let’s just call that zero, right? Or squared. Now, depending on how much weight you add to one end would depend on how the the scale is shifting. So, in golf, general rule of thumb, um, most players are going to be in the in the D range. D, let’s call it D2 to D4. Uh, some of your faster, stronger players might even be a little higher than that. uh D5 and D6, but some players like to to and and in the D ranges, you’re going to feel the players say that they can feel the club head. They they feel the weight of the club head. That was me. Yeah. Okay. Right. As soon as you start to move that seessaw towards the handle, you would start getting towards like C range, B range, A range. If you went super super heavy on the on the handle side, let’s say you would get to the A range, right? But that’s very very extreme. So what we’ve essentially what we do is when we go counterbalanced is we’re adding weight to the handle which starts to shift the seessaw towards the grip handle. So you’re that’s why we say we’re moving the balance point up the shaft. And so industry standard like I said is D2 to D4. And um some players have been you know some players will tell you I play D3 all my life that’s what I play. Okay fine. What we’re here to say is that there’s benefits for some players, not all. Some some players obviously fit in the light stuff, and there’s a lot of benefits to the light stuff, but for players that are looking for speed, are looking for launch, are looking for maybe be a little more draw biased, shifting that seesaw towards the handle and adding weight to your handle, there’s great benefits to it. And again, the greatest player of all time, arguably back weighted his clubs. Um, and so in essence, he was shifting the seessaw towards the handle. Um, or so, you know, that’s that’s swing weight in essence is that’s what you’re doing is you’re just moving the the seessaw up or down towards the head or towards the handle. Okay. Here’s the anecdote behind it. Cuz I want to get to um overall weight too people because you all understand overall weight. Like if you give your kiddo a baseball bat that’s too heavy, a little boy can’t get it around in time and might connect the ball but you can’t swing it fast so you going to leak power. So the lighter this baseball bat you the faster you can hit the thing. Right. But first to the overall weight I was of the school and as after I got together with you which is pretty common place because I learned something. Um I was always like want to feel the head. I so want to feel the head and everything from the putter through the driver. It felt like and my clubs were around D4 thinking that if the club head was heavier I was going to place a heavier hit on the golf ball. But the problem was for me that because the club head was heavier in my downswing because I was never really fast, the club would just fall to the ground and my entire career I fought a club that was behind me half the time. And this is where the right miss come from, which what what you said to me over lunch. And I looked at you, I’m like, I’m pissed off that I’ve been doing this for so long. I’m I’m believing you, but I’m struggling to believe you. Because all the while I’m thinking, but swing weight, swing weight, swing weight. And then it occurred to me that hold on, you’re not changing the overall weight of the club. You just change you’re changing the way it feels in a player’s hands. Am I correct when it comes to overall weight now? Yes. It you as you start to add weight in the handle, in essence, you are adding a little bit of weight to the club. Um, but you’re putting it in the handle. So that’s how you’re getting the effect of moving the balance point. So like for example, Bryson, I would venture to say that I’m 99.9% correct on this. Probably plays the heaviest club, the heaviest irons maybe in the entire professional game. They feel so light when I pick them up, bro. But it’s because the the grip weighs 123 g. Yeah. So let’s just do quick math. If the head weight’s 270 and his shafts weigh 130, so we’re at 400 gram. And now the grip weighs 123 gram. So he’s at five 523 grams roughly. If you put a standard grip on that and it weighs 70 gram, it’s much lighter. So yeah, his caddies uh his caddy actually probably carries the heaviest bag on tour. Okay. So So so so that’s so that’s overall weight, people. and how if you’re moving weight around in the golf club, you can affect change. Now, this is me. I knew just enough to be dangerous, right? So, I would um struggle with this right miss that turned into a hook when I got a little frisky and flippy down through the bottom. Right? So, incidentally, folks, if you if your coach is telling you you flip, you might want to try the grips that I’ve tried. Okay? Anyway, um, so then I’d be like, because I knew enough from some club building back in the day when I was an assistant in a shop where back, you know, remember we used to have lead tape and you’d stick it all over your golf clubs, right? Yes. I’d have like all the lead tape in the world stuck on the inside of the golf club around the heel and stuff like that to help that to slam shut. But still, and that makes sense, but still what I was missing was in the down swing as your body’s going this way, gravity’s always acting on your golf club and pulling it down to the ground. And no matter what I tried to try and slow the heel down, the club was still coming from massively inside out. So that’s why once in a while a block would turn into a hook. So, I was well-meaning, but I actually was doing myself another disservice by putting weight in around the head to slow the toe versus putting in the handle of the golf club. Yeah, absolutely. And and um you know, I I would love to walk um your viewers through kind of what a a fitting Please. Yeah, absolutely. And and how quickly we do it. But well, before you do that, help us with the feel of it all because when you came out to the fitting with me, and it was very easy, folks. Um, Alex will tell you in a minute, just took a picture of my hand with his phone on the Jumbo Max app. The app told us what size grip to use, right? And then it was just experimenting with the feel. And it it was like try this, then try this, and it was like a very simple process. Um, but I still want to get to like the feel change of it all because when you first pick up the grip, it just doesn’t feel right. Right. And then after you’ve hit like 10 shots or whatever, it almost feels normal. And like I was asking you, sorry, my dog’s going crazy in the background. What I was asking you was like the the because of the sense of it and because of the swinging of the golf club, um, I was like, “This doesn’t jive.” But then all of a sudden it’s like the penny drops and then everything’s okay. And then when I go back to my regular size grip, I was like, gosh, this is not right. And I talking to you at the top of the show going, when I’m swinging now, I almost feel in a way like I’m letting go of the golf club because of the size of the grip. Yeah. You’re not having to hold on so tight. Exactly. Right. So So talk to us more circumference. Talk to us about feel and and that aspect of it, please. Yeah. And it basically comes with u you know the right circumference. So finding the right size for you. Obviously the weight which we talked about the size the size is a big is a big thing. Um but once you you know like I said I I’ve been playing the grips for seven years. I hold a skinny grip now. I don’t think I mean it just feels so awkward and it just feels weird like I feel like I have no control. One, you know, one thing I tell people all the time about feel is just think about if you if you had a little steering wheel, right, and you shifted it. Let’s say you moved it from 1:00 to 12:00 and attached to that steering wheel there was a shaft and a and a club face. Mhm. You made a little fine movement on that steering wheel, it’s going to have a great effect on the on the face. That’s skinny grip in your hands. If I gave you a big steering wheel now, tractor trailer steering wheel, and you moved there from 1:00 to 12:00, that face isn’t going to move as much. Um, and so that’s where the circumference comes in of the of the grip size and how it fits in your hand and how it gives you more control, but it also, you know, we see it all the time. It lightens people’s players uh grip pressure because they don’t have to squeeze as tight to hold on to it, especially when you’re trying to swing it fast. I mean, it’s probably one of the reasons why a lot of the long drivers use our grips because they’re swinging this club so fast that with a skinny grip, they kind of tend to lose control, especially on offc center hits. When you hit it in the center, kind of everything works, right? But if you hit a little dimple off here and there and you start getting the twisting effect or the torque, um, that’s when having a bigger circumference helps you, you know, get through that impact interval. I’ve got to say this now as you’re describing that phenomenon about the uh steering wheel size, I have noticed that on like basic green side chip and pitch shots, it all of a sudden became like super easy and and and I know that sort of sounds trit, but it really did. I was hitting greenside pitch shots, just basic, you know, club head below the hands, nothing big hingy or anything like that, but it just felt like my hands were quieter. It it felt like that electricity of like, oh, I got to hit it. that that stuff kind of went away a little bit. Yeah. And it’s um uh some of the players that we have, you know, playing our grips, they say that they feel like they can hit the kind of like the dead hand chip shots or dead hand chip. It’s just turning the body um you know, back and through and and the hands are staying very quiet and and the face doesn’t have a lot of rotation. I mean, if you look at Bryson, you know, he’s got a super weak grip. Obviously, he’s got a lot of owner deviation. kind of stands a shaft up and he’s trying to swing it on close to on one plane. Um, but he the grip is so big for it just holds it well he’ll tell you that he’s he holds it pretty tight, pretty taut. Um, but it’s the circumference is there. So, all he has to do is just take it up the plane back down the plane and the face is, you know, it’s going to stay pretty square. So, it simplifies things. And I’m I’m not here to say that these grips are going to solve everything, right? It’s not uh we all know golf is extremely difficult. Um but there’s definitely benefits to the counterbalance just like there’s benefits to the light stuff and and really helps. It’s the last frontier of fitting. And I’ll say this too and folks who’ve listened or watched the show for a long time have heard this before and I’m preaching this all the time. I’m like when I was a college golf coach, I was very interested in how a player played when he didn’t have his best stuff. You know, cuz that’s golf. Think about how often you’ve got all your game working. It’s few and far between. So, it’s like you’re cobbling together something. And what I’ve found with the grip size change and the grip weight change, I think more importantly even, is that my big miss has gotten less disastrous. And for most golfers, if they can avoid that big miss, then they’re on the way to lower scores. Yeah, we we did some test. Uh we’ve done a bunch of tests. I mean, I I we did um a trial with cool clubs in Arizona with 28 players. All 28 players uh switched to a to a bigger grip. Um and that was just purely data. No, there was no interaction as far as us trying to pitch them anything. It was all based on grouping. So, they hit their club and then they hit uh their club with our grips on that. You know, we went through the fitting and found the right grip and the right size and then a grouping with that. And 28 out of 28 players converted to a different grip than what they were playing. So, and that was just based on grouping. So, no, no, you know, there’s no uh um interaction from us trying to sell them anything. So, yeah. Well, the thing sells itself. Okay, that’s the perfect segue. You are a pro at moving this to what a typical fitting would for for everyone watching this would uh entail. So, please walk us through that. Yeah. So, um, what we typically do is we have an app on the app store. Um, if you have an iPhone, it’s called JumboMax. You just go on the app store, download it. Jumboax script fitting. And, um, on that app, um, it’ll ask you to scan your hand. So, you got to give it camera access. You’ll put your hand on the screen, and it measures over 200 points, but the main measurements are from the tip of your thumb to the tip of your pinky, and then from your palm to your middle finger. All right? Um, and so then it’s going to it’s going to ask you a series of questions. Um, the first question will be, what’s your typical ball flight? Do you hit it fairly straight? Uh, do you work it both ways? Do you hit a draw, a hook, a fade, or a slice? Mhm. And depending on what you answer, we’ll go to the next question. The next question will ask you about grip pressure. On a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being white knuckle firm, how do you how much do you grip it? So let’s say you select five and then the last question is do you have any hand injuries or difficulty holding the club and the three answers would be I always have difficulty holding the club. I sometimes have difficulty holding the club or I don’t have any hand issues. And then it’ll recommend a size. So it’ll say um mark your size as the um extra small. All right. So in a fitting we’re going to have you hit your eight iron. We’re going to get some data on that eight iron and then we’re going to hand you an extra small tour series 8 iron. You’ll hit, you know, five to seven shots with that. We’ll have you then hit a small. We go one size up. We’ll have you hit a small five to seven shots. And then we’ll go two sizes down to the standard jumbo. Um, out of those three, we’ll we’ll figure out, okay, which size felt the best? Um, which one did you feel you hit the best? And then we’ll say, “Okay, now that we have the size, let’s compare weight.” So, let’s say it we we ended up on the extra small. Then I would give you the extra small light. And we would do a comparison between the extra small heavy, the extra small light, and then your eight iron as well. Mhm. Um, and we’ll typically find uh the correct the correct grip doing that. Um, takes anywhere between 30 to 45 minutes. And again, it’s all it’s all database. We have a launch monitor. Uh, we’re looking at we’re looking at ball speed, we’re looking at launch, we’re looking at spin, we’re looking at trajectory, and we’re looking at the grouping as well. Just for the record, folks, I was looking more at my swing path, and I did notice my swing path straightened out when Alex put the correct weight grip on my golf club. Yeah, cuz you went from being kind of like stuck behind you to kind of out in front of you. So, it it it there’s drastic changes that that can happen. And uh yeah, that’s basically what happens is we, you know, uh we do that and then you’re fit. Now, some players um will tinker with um like on the wedges, they might go a little uh smaller or sometimes even bigger. And I do have a lot of players that actually go bigger on the driver because they’re trying to control the face more. Okay? Especially players that maybe tend to hook it a little bit. They might go bigger than what um the fitting came out as for the irons. Now, I need to say this. I need to say this real fast, forgive me, Alex, that maybe not at your level, at your club golf people, but at the elite level, like Scotty Sheffller, for argument sakes, if you listen to our show with Adrien Ritfeld from um Tailor Made, you know, he’s got different amounts of wrapping underneath the grip of the golf club to make the bottom hand feel thicker or to have less taper in the grip. So players at the highest level, they’ve modifying and fiddling on grip sizes anyway and then they’re stretching these skinny rubber grips over there where Jumbo Max comes at you and goes, “Yeah, there’s an array of stuff.” And they’re surprisingly durable, too. I mean, they don’t wear out as quickly at all, I’ve noticed. Yeah. I mean, we we have to ask Bryson to change his grips up a lot of the times just because, you know, they and he hits a lot of balls. Yeah, man. Yeah. We we’ve realized from YouTube. um he’s always playing golf. Um so there’s it’s kind of like a one-stop shop and then they don’t necessarily need to see you. I mean they can they could book your time but they could after they’ve measured themselves on the app then you guys they place the order and Jumbo Max then sends them a heavy and a light grip in their size and you can go and put it on your your own club and experiment and see which one works the best and you then you go from there, right? Yeah. It’s a two trial grip on the website. You can you can go and select, okay, I want to try the extra small heavy and the extra small light. They send you the two grips. You can try them on. We recommend putting them on a seven iron or a driver. And then if you decide, I want to go heavy. Once you go order your full set, you’ll get a credit back for the two grip trial. And let me tell you something, folks, it’s a whole lot more cost effective than buying new golf clubs. And it’s like it’s and the crazy thing is and that’s that’s what look I had new golf clubs I’d gotten from Tailor Made but I kept on looking at this going it’s like I’ve gotten a golf club overall like if I’d put these on my old irons. In fact I want to I want to get a set of these clubs and put them on the old irons and see how they perform cuz I have a sense that because the old irons are more forgiving. They would be even better now that I got the correct weighted grip on the bottom of the shaft there. Absolutely. And and by the way, just to touch on the the non-tapered that you were talking about with Scotty, we actually make a non-tapered grip. It’s called the Straight Tech ST8 tech. That grip comes in three sizes, extra small, medium, and extra large. And we have it in the three weights. We and textures. We have it in the heavy, the light, and in the in the comfort wrap. And that grip is perfectly um um there’s no taper. It’s uh perfectly even. And uh it’s really good for players with for a right-handed player with a overly active right hand. For lefty overly active left hand. So that’s been yeah that’s been the old man’s golf tip for the longest time. The wise old pro one day said if you’re a hooker of the golf ball, you know, get thicker grips. If you’re a fader, get thinner. And and then I always believe that the thinner the grip was or the closer you were to the shaft, the more feel there was. And the truth is now I’ve got some thick grips on my wedges and I’ve always been able to chip. I was like gosh it the it’s it’s taken away those sort of I don’t want to say fine movements because that would be the wrong word but that odd reaction sort of electricity thing it’s gone away around the greens even off tight eyes and stuff. Yeah. Now, I’ve said it’s gone away, but I’m going to I’m going to jinx myself. But really, I I can feel the difference in the performance of the head of the club because my hands and wrists are more stable. You know what I’d love to do? I’d love to connect you guys with the folks from Hack Motion who have got that rinse wrist sensor that measures your wrist. Now, it’s moving in space throughout the golf swing. I I guarantee you’d see a different performance in wrists and stuff as opposed from people just trying to, you know, manipulate wrist um looks on their of their own accord. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I got a question one more about the grip because we’ve talked about um the the feel of it. You’ve talked about folks who’ve alleviated injury in the hands. Um that’s a big deal. I have noticed cuz people with extreme grips like big lead hand over the top, big trail hand underneath and vice versa. I find it because of the size of the grip almost really too hard to twist my left hand too far over the club. Have you seen that a lot with people? Because it sort of makes sense. Yeah, it’s it just we because we call it finger palm technology. So, because you’re still gripping it in the fingers, but you have more surface contact with the palm, the hands just fit under more naturally. So, I typically have a very strong grip. If I get a skinny grip, my right hand is like on the side, like at the 3:00 position. And with the bigger grips, I I still would have maybe a little bit of a strong grip, but it’s not as much. It’s more at like the one:00 position. And so even if I if I tried to go really strong because I have bigger circumference in my hand, it I’m not going to have the huge effect of shutting that face so much. So it you’re you’re basically you’re controlling the rate of closure. It’s what’s happening because it’s a bigger circumference. You’re controlling that rate of closure on the face. Yeah, rate of closure is one of those internet buzz phrases right now. Um one more thing, these are not just golf club grips. You guys make putter grips. you do it all. Talk us quickly through the uh because you can basically get it from driver through putter and you can redo your entire set of clubs. Yeah, our putter line is pretty nice. We have I mean we have over a 100 SKs of grips. So we have um we have the pistol grips which we have in three different sizes, pro, mid, and extra large. We have the straits, the 1.2s and the 1.3s. Um we have a palmird grip for those that either want to putt with like a prayer grip or for those that want to use like a claw. That grip is really, really cool. It’s called the Palm Bird. Um, we have a 13-in flat jumbo. We have a 17-in flat jumbo. That’s the one Bryson uses uh braced up against his forearm. Um, we have a 15-in counterbalance 1.2. And so, and we have all kinds of different um colors. We have two-piece grip and then we have a 21in grip uh skinny 21in um grip for those that like the longer the longer uh putters. So, we have we have a whole lineup. I mean, it’s all on our website. It’s um a lot of good stuff. Yeah. Okay. Parting shot here, Alex, cuz you’ve seen the comingings and the goings and you spent excessive time around Bryson Dashambo. And when you heard um Alex talk about Bryson, that’s who we’re talking about. He is a pretty tough taskmaster, the Bryson I know. And he’s gotten gears at times before from people cuz you’ll get out in the media and actually criticize a golf club maker because the club wasn’t performing. And I used to look at this going, you know, maybe that’s a little out of bounds, but I do know this for certain that you guys are jumbo max. You are getting the there are no half measures with Bryson and Dambo. So talk about the Brassen effect on what you’re doing, please. I mean, the Bryson effect is is amazing. I mean, not only is he he’s going to keep you at the top of your game, uh your your stuff has to perform. I mean, there there’s no question about that. even in my prior career when I was with Fly Scope and I was working with him. Uh it’s got to perform or he’s going to call you out. So, um you know, and that that goes to our quality. I mean, he’s been using the grip since he was 15 years old. So, um long time coming. By the way, I’ll give you a quick story on this. When his junior coach, Mike Shai, found John Masanobyl, he found him at the PGA show in Las Vegas. This is probably Well, Bryson was 15. Okay. and he takes some grips back and he gets a call a few weeks later. John gets a call a few weeks later from Mike and he’s like, “Yeah, th this kid shot two 58s and a 59.” John was like, “Wait a second. No, nobody shoots that.” Like, he’s like, Mike’s like, “No, no, I mean, he was playing from the Ford Ts. Mike kind of has his players play from the Ford Ts to learn how to shoot low scores.” And he’s like, “Yeah, I shot two 58s and a 15.” Whoa. And then all of a sudden, you know, then he’s he goes to college. He wins the US the USM he wins the NCAA’s and the rest is history. So you know he’s put these things these things have been under pressure. Um he’s actually he’s actually played the light and the heavy when he was chasing the speed. He went to the light grip thinking that it would actually help him gain more speed. He did win one US Open with it. So we can’t you know it it’s very good grip but he did go back to the heavy. He’s he’s in the heavy now and he did win the last US Open uh in the heavy grip. So, anyways, just wanted to give you that little bit of uh uh history on Bryson and the grips. But, yeah, it’s it’s top quality stuff and he he’s going to hold you your feet to the fire. It’s got to perform. Yeah, no doubt. Okay, now you’ve you didn’t have to sell it because it’s sold itself, but now people are interested. So, please tell them you’ve said it’s jumboax.com and you download the app in the app store. If folks had let’s say just they wanted to reach out to Alex here, how do they get you? they can just reach uh our info box. They can email [email protected]. Um and then and I would say that I would give them my personal email, but as you know, I’m on the road all the time. So, email [email protected]. Our customer service team will get to me. Um just like if anyone has a club that they want us to come to and um you guys want us to do a fitting day, reach out and we’ll, you know, we’ll set up a date and we’ll we’ll come out and and get it done for you guys. He uh um Alex pulled the Jumbo Max van into my club, Green Island, and there were a lot of questions that were asked of me the next few days after that. It was a cool experience. Um Alex, I’m happy to announce that I am now a Jumbo Max ambassador. I believe that much. Um my promo code is on the mark, folks. So now you can go and get your fitting, get your grips, and then you use the on the mark code to get a little discount on affairs, too. So I’m I’m very excited. You’ve said it’s the new frontier and the more you said so the more I was like Jesus you’re right. I mean there’s only so far you can go with golf club head technology and I like Bridgestone because they’ve got the bit the right ball for you. But you know what? Your hands are the tip of the spear. They are your only communication with a golf club. There you go. Get the right freaking handle in your hands. Huh? What do you say? That’s right. That’s right. I mean you got you got to get grip fit. Yeah, thanks for your time, buddy. You’re the best. Thank you, Mark. [Music] [Music]