Kevin Chappell breaks down his decision to retire from the PGA Tour

On this week’s episode of GOLF’s Subpar, Colt Knost and Drew Stoltz are joined by PGA Tour winner Kevin Chappell for an exclusive, in-studio interview. The 2008 team and individual National Champion explains why he decided to step away from the PGA Tour, if Signature Events have been good or bad for the game and how the path has changed for the NCAA’s best to compete at the next level.
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All right, welcome back to another episode of Subpar with Colt Nost and Drew Staltz. And as always, this episode is brought to you by Fanatics. And this fall, every shot you take with Fanatic Sportsbook is putting points on the board. When you bet with Fanatics, you earn up to 10% fan cash back on your bets, win or lose. So, even if your bet misses, you’re still scoring fan cash, which you can use on tickets, exclusive Fanatic events, and merch on fanatics.com. And now, through the end of the year, be sure to check out our weekly picks in the Fanatic Sportsbook app. Make the switch and get more ways to win. Fanatic Sportsbook. Winning hits different here. Must be 21 years or older. Gambling Problem, call 1800 Gambler. Connecticut, call 888-789777. Massachusetts, call 800 327-50. New York, call 8778NY. Maryland. Visit mdgamblinghelp.org. Not available in all states. Terms apply. C Fanatic sportsbook app. All right, sle. PJ tour is back in action this week. The worldwide technologies championship down in Cabo. Shot the grass off the place once again. 29 under. New record for Ben Griffin who also picked up his third PGA Tour win of the season. Unbelievable. This guy, it was kind of like, hey, is this a flash in the pan? Is this the real deal? I’m starting to think it’s the real deal. Three guys won three times on the PJ tour this season. Yeah, this is what we had at the beginning back in January. Like, let me tell you whose year it’s going to be. Scotty, Rory, and also Ben Griffin. What a what I mean, dude. What an unbelievable year. Especially like as a guy that exited the game to come back and do not just find his way back on the PGA tour, but just like destroying it. Like look at the names that we just mentioned that he’s in there with. Shoots 29 under like you mentioned. I mean, I watched almost all of Sunday and it was like it it looked easy almost shoots 29 under out there. I’m not saying it’s the world’s best field, but I’m saying put them all out there. 29 under is going to be tough to beat for anyone. I mean, he’s just turned into I I I don’t you know, it was easy to think it was a flash in the pan, but I’m it’s clearly not. Like, how long can you like we I want to see what he does next year, too, cuz now he’s set the bar incredibly high for himself. Like, he will always be judged against this year. He’s a top 10 player in the world now. Uh he’ll be making his first appearance at the Masters, which is crazy to think for a top 10 player. Uh he picked up so he’s picked up 10 yards over the since last season. Smashes it. He’s one of the best putters in the game. And by the way, put a new putter in the bag this week and goes out there and and wins with it. I know the field wasn’t really strong or anything like that, but hey, you can only beat who tees it up. And he was uh he was co- tournament favorite with JJ Spawn, and there was a reason for it. JJ also played really well. 11th or something. He was he was up there. But man, it’s just it’s very impressive. Happy for Ben Griffin. He’s you and you he’s always been a guy that’s been extremely confident. Everyone around him will will tell you that. But now his game’s really backing it up. And he has a reason to be confident. Yeah. I mean, I say if you win three times in a year, it’s hard not to be. I think he’s done the hard part already is like coming off of, you know, stepping away from the game, coming back, getting on the BJ tour. Now what he’s done this year, I mean, and like one of the wins he, you know, Scotty was there. Yeah. At Colonial, you know, so it’s been a unbelievable year. He’s not a name that was on anyone’s radar in January. Now at the end of the season, he’s in there with the two best players in the world. Yeah. And speaking of confidence, is anybody more confident than Tommy Fleetwood right now? DP World Tour over in Abu Dhabi. He lost in the playoff to Aaron Ry. But Tommy Fleetwood is turning into like Scotty Sheffller. He just doesn’t play bad anymore. The question is, is Tommy Fleetwood the second best player in the world right now? Yes. As of today, right now, it’s hard not to say that he’s not. Wouldn’t you think? I mean, I thought he was at Beth Paige. I thought he was the best player there. I know like he was I I got to walk with him a couple times. It’s just like there’s no bad shots being hit and every hole was like dead pin high. It either goes in or it looks like it’s going in. I mean, how long has it been since he played like a bad round, much less a bad event? I mean, he’s been all world and I mean, we thought, you know, he was a guy after his close calls at the US Open like, hey, major championships, major, but coming into this year, this will be the highest expectations he’s ever faced. And it it’s a hard it feels easy when you’re doing it week in week out like he’s doing, but it’s hard to maintain. I told producer Mark before you got here, I was looking for the odds for the Butterfield Bermuda Championship and they also right below that on Fanatics was the uh the Masters odds for 2026 and Tommy was like the eighth betting favorite at like 25 to1. I was like uh I don’t hate that right now. Eighth feels not right. I I know I know April’s a long ways away, but still I’m like this guy’s playing really good golf and he’s he’s like and he’s rolling too. Like he’s going to play this week over in Dubai. He’s playing the Skins game in November, which I know is not the same, but he’s he’s competing. He’s going to It seems like he’s going to stay sharp and then just roll it right into January, which I think is important when you get it going the way he’s got it right now, best golf career. Like the last thing you want to do is like set him down for seven weeks and not even play or not play in anything. You know what I mean? It’s hard to maintain that and it’s damn near impossible if you’re not playing tournament golf um in that stretch. But he probably wishes it was February right now the way he’s going. Like there just not many people that can beat him. No, but congrats to Aaron Ry. Huge win for him. Just took eight weeks off. First week back, goes out there and wins. Uh Roy Moy shot final round 62, missed the playoff by a shot. Um some exciting golf over there. Both both uh scores on both tournaments were just insanely low. I mean it’s just it’s kind of turning into that, isn’t it? Don’t make pars almost every week. Like now it’s just like is it going to be less than 20? It’s It’s wild. Uh can I tell you something I did this weekend that was rather enjoyable. I would love to hear it. Yes. Um it was the great Mike Commodore’s birthday. It was Yeah. Uh we had a little celebration, little surprise for him. Um got a little party bus. Went down to the Honda rodeo Saturday night. I mean this is this is big time rodeo. These are real cowboys and cowg girls getting after down there. They got everything. Bull riding, calf roping, um team roping. They they do it all. And I think I might have found something I’m pretty good at. SE at the rodeo fanatics. Well, dude, you’re pilot point. You grew up with animals to put some barrel racing odds on the app. You’re a barrel racer. Back toback years I’ve picked the winner. I know my stuff. How are you picking it? Based on name freaking name, just like horse racing. Uh last year we actually had a program that had all the names. Yeah. And so we did it by that. This year somehow we couldn’t get a program to our little box that we bought. Uh, so we just all picked a random number and mine won again. But I feel like I have a gift. You grew up in the rodeo game, you know what I mean? Did you see any of the ropers down there? Boys, let me tell you. Let me give you a couple pieces of advice. Watch the whole thing. It was Dude, I love it. It’s so much fun. U the calf roping obviously. I grew up around that stuff. The bull riding is the bull riding is just insanity. I don’t know what those dudes get paid, how much money you can make as a bull rider, but it but it ain’t enough. Like what the dude that won? So the Hondo’s three nights and and they add up your finishes for the whole year. But if you win the round, so like Saturday night if you’re the winner of each event got 12 grand and you might get your head your crushed by a 4,000lb. Yeah. And then there’s a bonus if you like if you win the allaround for the for the week. But it’s Yeah. The money I mean the big ones Hondao is is a very big rodeo. And so I mean if you win it all I think and then you get a $50,000 bonus. So, you can make like 80 grand for the week if you have a have a really good week. Uh, the NFR up in Vegas, I would say, is a much bigger prize pool. U, but man, it’s so fun. The Hondao does an unbelievable job. Friday night, Nickelback played. Um, Saturday night, John, they’re back cool again. Yes. John Party, who I love country music, puts on a show. He opened up for Kid Rock. Yeah. They’re spending money at that thing, by the way. Fellow Bounty Club member. Mhm. Still got it. He did the Birds Nest a couple years ago. I don’t know if you were there for that. I was like, “God damn.” I mean, he the place went nuts. They still got it. They spent a lot of money at that deal, but 12 grand for winning the bull riding. Might as well just play a jick. You’re not going to die. Not get bucked off. You’re not going to die. I’ve only been to a few when I was in TCU in Fort Worth and the big one that was down there got down close once like right by the fence or whatever. It that’s one of those things like seeing it in person and seeing it on TV like maybe the biggest difference in in watching kind of like hockey. You don’t have an appreciation for how f how big those dude it’s like my hands are sweating just talking about it and these guys volunteer to get up there and do it. It’s so fun man. They’re nuts. Tommy and I get weird. Tommy be a good cowboy. Yeah, he would be. He would be a great Calgary Stampede. Maybe a rodeo clown start. The concert I mean Sunday night they fought the third night was Jason Aldine and Riley Green. I mean it’s it’s a spectacle man down there at Chase Field. Place is sold out. It’s packed. It was fun, dude. I look forward to that every year. Real deal Holyfield. And also happy what? 36th for Kami. How old is Kami? I think 46, bud. 46 I meant. What did I say? 36. Yeah, I go. He doesn’t look a day over 36. By the way, happy birthday to Ki. Happy birthday. We’ll get him back in here soon just for a little state of the union. All right, since I can’t bet barrel racing, I’ll I’ll go with some football and some golf this week. Make sure you download the Fanatic Sports Book app and follow along with us. Um, in the golf world, we’re at the Butterfield Bermuda Championship. Just two events left. Getting that top 100. getting a little stressful here. Um, Rico Hoey is your favorite. Probably the I would say the weakest field of the fall, but a lot on the line for these guys. And for my bet of the week in the golf world, this guy just made three pars in his final round down at Cabo and shot 63. He didn’t make he he made nine billion birdies and a few bogeies to shoot nine under par. Um, the guy who’s just turned into a hell of a player. You can get him top 10 at plus 250. Nico Eavaria very streaky. When he gets going, he really really goes. I’m going to need to look at my phone and get a butter. I thought you said they weren’t out yet. Oh, they’re out now. Okay, sorry. They’re updated. Fat doesn’t mess around. Let’s see if my golf thing works. I might have to look at yours. So, while we’re doing this, we’ll talk about But Nico, his final round sleeves, he uh on the back nine, he made six birdies and three bogeies. Nice. The old no parine. Yeah. And I think he made like six birdies and three pars on the front. So, uh, three pars, three bogeies, a million birdies. Okay, I like that. That’s well done. I’m going to go, as I peruse here, I’m going to go a guy that everyone is so high on going in. He’s apparently one of the greatest drivers of the golf ball in the world. We haven’t got to see a ton of him yet. He’s still a young kid, but Pearson Cudy has got a lot of hype and a lot of hype from guys that are seeing it week in week out. So, I don’t know if he’s ready to like bust through yet and and win, but like you mentioned, field not the strongest in the world. I’ll take him at plus 280 for a top 10. Are we sure it’s top 10? Not top five. Correct. Top 10. Confirmed. Plus 280. Proud of you. By the way, he’s a guy, it’s interesting because he’s got really nothing to lose. A guy that’s, you know, outside bonus ball. Yeah. Yeah. Basically, all he’s playing for is if he gets in that top 100, he gets in the players championship because he’s already locked up his card on the cornfairy tour to be out on the PJ tour. Obviously, his priority number would be much better if he gets in that top 100, but he’s kind of can freewheel it. Like, he knows no matter what, he’s going back to the PJ tour in 26. And a lot of these guys are the exact reverse of that. Like, I got to have this week. It’s so much so much more freedom. Like, he can basically just go, I’m going to go try to win a golf tour. If I shoot 80 every day, who cares? Like, I’m This is all gravy. Like I said, you know, for him getting to play in these things, whereas a lot of these guys like I got two more weeks and I got to play great golf or else I’m looking for a job. Like, that’s a totally different place to be playing from. And he’s young and excited to be out there. Some of these guys are, you know, dragging at this point in the season. Absolutely. Uh, all right. College football, my favorite bet of the week. Uh, game day will be up at pit. How about it? Pat McAfee fired up already tweeting about it. So, he’s going to be at the casino. He said if hopefully it goes okay or else he won’t be able to give as much away in the kicking contest. Yeah, we’ll know quickly. All right. For $10,000 for 10 bucks. Uh, but Pit, it’s going to be rowdy up there. Notre Dame coming to town. Your dad’s Notre Dame fighting Irish. Only die hard. Pit’s catching 11 at home. Give me Pit, baby. Larry Fitzgerald, come on. Larry Fitz. Interesting for Larry Fitz as his son is committed to play at Notre Dame next year. Yeah, but he’s not there yet. How about that? So, right now, he’s rooting for Pit. All right. You’re going with You’re going with the Panthers plus 11. I hope that loses, but I want you to win for the for the pod. You know what I mean? So, I’m a little conflicted. Why can’t Notre Dame just win by a touchdown? They could. That’s what I’m saying. That’s perfectly fine. Yeah. Okay. Um, I’ll go with I took a little gander at a lot of these games. I’m gonna go with Alabama at home. Thumping right now. Ty Simpson one of the betting favorites uh for the Heisman this year against OU, but given less than a touchdown at home. At home kind of sways it for me. Also, U I feel like they’re kind of hit or miss. Offense doesn’t look great at times, but I think Bama’s really going right now. And anytime they’re at home, uh, less than a tub, I just don’t think there’s many teams that can keep up. Give me Bama minus 6 and a half. Okay. All right, Bama. Roll tide. Let’s get it. All right. Our NFL parlay this week, we hit two out of three once again this past week. The freaking Thanks, Panthers. Yeah, the New Orleans Saints. Really, guys? Oh my god. That was the one I was least concerned about. Yeah, same. Indie snuck it out late for us. Some Survivor Pools taking a hit this year. Yeah, the Ravens cruised. Deal. All right, here we go. Um, our three team NFL moneyline parlay. We’re taking the Bills over the Bucks. Bills coming off a horrible loss to worst I’ve ever seen them look. I don’t know what happened. They were like they never got off the plane. Um we’re going to So Bills over the Bucks. The Chicago Bears have won six out of seven and I know they’re they’ve been kind of greasy wins here and there, but they’re winning. So give me them on the money line against the Minnesota Vikings who are also kind of like hit or miss. Don’t really know what’s going to happen with JJ McCarthy. I’m not super enthused if I was a Vikings fan on the on the offensive side of the ball up there. And then Bears are going. Yeah. And then our last one, Jacksonville Jaguars at home. The LA Chargers long road trip. They looked horrendous last night. I mean, that game them Pittsburgh was just so boring to watch. The over. Yeah, I’m aware. Five to zero with like Yeah. or three to two, sorry, five points uh total like through a quarter and a half. I was like, well, probably not going to hit. That was a miserable game to watch. Yeah, it was boring. Uh, but this week, Trevor Lawrence going to take care of business against the Chargers. So, we’re going Bills, Bears, Jags, our three team NFL moneyline parlay. Go over, get the Fanatic Sports Book app, and follow along with us. Might as well win them all. Yeah. All right. Our guest this week. This is This is cool, man. We’ve had him on before. Been a friend of ours for a very long time. But Kevin Chapel just wrapped up a 17-year professional golf career. winner on the PGA Tour, President’s Cup member, uh won the NCAA’s at UCLA, but has decided to step away from the game and he shares his story with us on Subpar. All right, we are happy to have one of our good friends joining us this week. Just wrapped up a very successful golf career, both amateur and professional level. 17 years as a pro. Went on the Cornferry Tour, the PJ tour, and a member of the 2017 President’s Cup. Kevin Chapel back in the house. It’s good to have you. Thanks for having me. Oh yeah. Last time we had you, you made us dress up in costumes. Yeah. Forot. Thank you for not doing that this time. It was hotter than [ __ ] I remember. My wife asked me what I was going to wear and I said my dragon costume. She’s like, “Ah, let’s grow up a little bit.” Yeah. We We could have done it like a week or two ago for Halloween. What was the I was thinking that too. What was the reason we did that? You remember? Why not? Was it Halloween? Oh, just cause. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Good point. Basically, he said like when we do stuff, my kids, they always want to dress up and since y’all are making me do this, y’all are going to dress up. Seems fair to me. My kids are in the dress up phase right now, too. And the heat index was 175 inside that bear costume. That’s a good way to cut weight. That’s how they do it. That’s how they do it. Well, thanks for coming back, dude. Appreciate you. Yeah, let’s get into it here. I mean, 310 starts, obviously, a very long successful career. Uh, what made you come up to decide to step away? Uh, I guess it’s been it been a rough like five years. I had a back surgery in 18, then missed all of 19. Um and then that led right into co and so there was basically you know a year and a half where I didn’t play a lot of competitive golf and I really struggled to like find any form after that. Um and in that time like started to grow as a person, started to grow as a father and priorities started to change and you know the I noticed my work ethic was going down. Um and my results were going down and kind of I guess last in April I got into New Orleans as an alternate play with Tom Hogi. we get paired with Rory and Shane Lowry and I’m, you know, I wasn’t really prepared, but was excited to be in the event and I’m watching Shane and Rory play and I’m just like, man, that’s, you know, I might not have been ever been Rory, but I certainly was a top 30 player in the world and I’m like, man, the amount of work it’s going to take to get back there and the things I’m going to miss out on, I don’t know that this is worth it to me. And uh so I kind of sat on that thought for um you know the spring and into summer and um took the family over to Europe and played two European tour events or DP World Tour events and uh just was like I think this this is it. That’s amaz. So seeing them like obviously you’ve played with all the best players in the world throughout your career, but seeing them recently and just comparing yourself to them at this moment is kind of really what pushed you to be like, you know what, I don’t know if I’m ready. I don’t know if I’m willing to commit to try to get back to that level. Exactly. I just I think my priorities have changed and to watch the level that they’re were playing at and the level that I had and where like I’ve just never played the game just to get a tea time. it’s always been to compete and win and and have chances to win and it was just going to take a lot of work and I was going to miss out on a lot of things that I didn’t want to miss out on. When you have the injury like you had, you got to sit for a while, then you get co which was a weird time and all that. So, you go a long time without playing competitively. Is there any sort of part of you that but you’re you’re good like your life’s good, you know what I mean? Like does any part of you get comfortable not playing? Cuz it’s the first time you’ve really had a stretch like that since you picked up clubs, I would assume. Uh yeah, and I certainly would do it differently than I did it if I got that opportunity again. Like what do you mean by that? I would prepare differently. I would have probably been more stringent on myself with how I rehabbed when I rehabed and tried to tried to mirror almost the tour schedule. So, you’re like ramping up for a week of practice and then and that would you maybe you do three weeks in a row of of that and then you get a week off like you would um with your schedule because I think I when I tried to go back into playing it was like oh wow this is really overwhelming like where I got to go play a bunch of golf in a row and or where am I and I’ve just been on airplane for a week and you know I haven’t traveled at all. So, um, you know, using hindsight, I definitely would have done it differently, but there was no preparing for COVID. And then I had never had an injury. Um, so, you know, sitting on the couch for 9 months was, uh, was kind of eye opening for me. Did you shoot 59? Like one of your first weeks back. The second round back, I shot 59. Yeah. Sounds like you did all right coming back. Well, I don’t think I broke part of the rest of that tournament. So, yeah, we shot 59. You got You’re in the books, though. You’re in the books. Coming to this decision, like it sounds like you’ve been dwelling on this for a while. But like how difficult was that for you? Be like golf’s life. Like I said, from the time you picked up a club, like that’s pretty much all we do. Yeah. Um when I told my wife, she’s like, “You’ve said this before, but I actually believe you this time.” And actually to have her say that um was kind of like, “Oh yeah, like this is a different I’m projecting a different message right here.” um you know there wasn’t any emotion behind it other than like here’s the facts and this is these are the reasons I’m not going to I don’t want to continue to do this as before it would be you shoot 78 and you’re like I don’t know if I can do this anymore and you know that’s very emotional very you’re stuck in a the situation that just happened and this was a kind of a culmination of a lot of evidence and and presented it in a way that hey like this is more of a life decision than a career decision. It’s it’s interesting because like I’ll just for myself for an example like when I lost my card at PJ tour starts like I had the option to go into the cornfairy tour and I knew at 35 years old like my attitude was going to be [ __ ] going down to the corn ferry tour where all these young kids that are up and coming they’re hungry they’re excited to be there. Did that have anything to do with your decision at all? Just you know where the game’s headed and how I mean we’re not we’re just not young anymore. A little bit. I played a handful of corn fair events the last couple years and uh enjoyed the competing. Um, you know, I was I went to the Bahamas this year uh on the cornfair tour and where everyone’s stuck in this small airport getting out of there and I’m like, how many people made money in these two two weeks, you know, and started thinking about it as a business and I’m like, this is just a bad business decision to be here right now. And I made both cuts and, you know, maybe finished in the middle of the pack, but it’s like I don’t know like that this doesn’t make sense to me in my brain that where everyone in this room is making this as a as a business decision for the caliber of golf that’s played on that tour. Like the reward financially for it is like crazy though. Yeah, you’re right. It’s got then you could scale that back to like Canada or the Americas and stuff like that. Like they’re not that much different, you know? But it’s basically like can you survive? And that’s what it is. It’s can you make it to when you make it and then see if you can make some money and and can you get through the the tough years and there’s not a lot of options as far as mini tours. I mean remember when we came up I played a handful of mini tour events here uh in the valley and you could make a decent living in the wintertime. Um and that doesn’t exist anymore and it barely exists on the um below the cornfair tour. Um I think that’s would have to change. Um, I think there’s less people trying. There’s less reasons to try. Um, the carrot’s gotten bigger, but it’s moved away from everyone. Um, unless you’re a top 30 player in the world. Yeah. And that’s one thing I don’t think people realize. Like, yeah, you’re a professional golfer. It’s it’s an awesome life, but it’s hard. It’s not always successful. I mean, when the Midam stuff was going on and people complaining about the pros, like I I said, give me some resumes of the guys that made it. And like, one guy played two years on the Cornfair Tour and made $55,000 and they think he should be a professional for the rest of his life. I was like, you know, this guy has to live, right? Like that’s before taxes, that’s before expenses. That’s two years. He’s losing his ass. Yeah. He earned 55,000. That doesn’t mean he made any negative way you Yeah. But speaking of like where the game is headed and everything. I mean, a lot of talk with the PJ tour. I’d say a lot of criticism as well about somewhat becoming a close shop. I mean, all these signature events, the like you said, the rewards for the top players are great, but the playing opportunities seem like they’re getting less and less for the guys up and coming. Yeah, I agree with what you’re saying. I, uh, I don’t know what the future holds for the tour. Um it’s just seems like it’s turning much into a tennis model where you’re going to have, you know, 8 to 12 events a year that really matter and the rest of it there will be a tour that exists, but as if you’re not a regular fan, you’re not going to really know what’s going on. And there’s an opportunity for guys to make a living in those events, but as far as being relevant, like it’s going to be harder and harder um to have that long um career that you’ve seen in the past. you know, you’re going to have your generational talents that are going to do it, but I think careers get shorter, guys make more money, they move on and go do something else, and somehow they need to get the turnover uh rate that matches the exit rate, and it it could be sustainable. I don’t love it. Um, but if that’s what the business model says that they need to be doing to grow the game of golf, then like that’s what they got to do. How about for rookies coming out? I mean, it was already incredibly hard that first year on tour. Like, if you can just keep your card, play your way on, then you get to pick your schedule, all the stuff. Now, for the rookies coming on, it’s like, uh, by the way, you’re not getting any of the signature events. So, those are you’re already way behind all those guys. They’re shrinking the number of events. They’re shrinking the number of cards. Like, for a rookie coming on right now, I mean, how how brutal is how are you going to keep these kids that are obviously good enough to get there, but they don’t even really have it’s not a fair shot to stay on almost. It is brutal. I guess the only thing that they have going for them is the way that they earn their way back to or onto the tour. You have a lot of confidence, you know, so they’re full of filled up with piss and vinegar and and ready to go and think like, “Oh man, I just had this great year on the cornfield tour. I can beat anyone.” And they have that going for them, but it is an uphill battle and everything in life’s an uphill battle, you know, like you you got to go earn it. And uh I guess if they have success, like they really did earn it. Yeah, I’m with you. like nothing should be given to you. But with these signature events, like if you finish in the top 50, you’re good for the entire year. I mean, we saw this year only one guy that was in the top 50 last year finished outside the top 100 that wasn’t injured, and that was Matthew Pavon, who just had a had a really bad year. Like, you really got to mess up to lose your card. And it’s really hard not to honestly finish in the top 70 and guarantee yourself in the playoffs. But with the signature events, like where are you on those? Because him and I talk all the time like the juice for Thursday and Friday is gone with 70 people, no cut. as a player who’s obviously played in a number of these events, where where do you stand on that? Would you rather see more people in the field with a cut? Yeah, I think you like that’s an integral part of the game like making a cut. There’s a good feeling there. There’s a sense of accomplishment and that needs to happen in the game. Um, you know, I wouldn’t maybe they don’t want to do full fields, but let’s everyone that kept their card the year before on the PJ tour is exempt plus, you know, 10 um guys that can earn and let’s do 110 man field and let’s let’s have a cut. And um you it opens up opportunity. It creates less of a divide amongst the on the money list and and the points list and uh you know it allows people to earn their way into the event a little bit easier. What do you think about like I would have less issue with the the new structure of it and just how difficult it is like I said for the rookies and stuff if everybody if you’re a full card carrying member of the PJ tour if everyone got access to the same events and you got the same schedule then it’s really like we’re all starting at zero here you know these guys don’t have a huge leg up playing in the signature events I’d have way less of an issue with it if it’s kind of like you’re all on the level playing field starting off I agree like let’s make it everyone start to the same starting line like and plays the same events with the same points and stuff if it’s a season long race like let everybody race. You’re not letting everybody run. Was it what was it? One rookie this year off Cornferry made it to the one cornfair tour guy. Poter, right? And he won and finished second. Yeah, I believe so. Made it to I think he’s the only one. Um I wouldn’t be opposed to them going way back and you know if you’re a if you kept your card the year before or you or maybe top 70 you’re in every event and then 70 to 100 you get the option to Monday qualify with the corn ferry guys. there’s 50 spots, whatever that fills the fills the rest of the fields and uh like let’s just do qualifiers every week and you get to earn your way on into the events and you play great. You get get in a good run. You’ll play in every event and there’s still a lot of opportunity and you don’t you can have the the money qualifiers or the qualifiers be a closed shop and so it’s only coming from you know a certain pool that um has been earned. Yeah, that’d be interesting. And and we love watching the best play against the best. There’s no doubt about that. But what I feel like drives ratings and what people love to see is when the best are going against the lesser name, the underdog. And with these signature events, I feel like we lose so much of that. Like I always use Phoenix Open a few years ago and Saw the Gala was a rookie and no one really knew who he was unless you were a big time golf fan and he was in the mix with Scotty Sheffler and Patrick Kentlay and the whole place seemed like they were rooting for Syth. Yeah. Because it’s a great story and I feel like we lose a lot of those now because of the way the PJ tour is headed. I agree. um you know, like I going back to the tennis model thing, you don’t see the uh underdog a lot in the majors and so you’re seeing the same guys at the top of the leaderboard every week and um you know, because the PJ tour or because golf is so deep and you um you know, players are so good now like anyone can win at any time as long as you’re in the field and you just got to be given that opportunity. Do you think a lot of this, obviously I think we would agree the changes have made because of Liv, but do you think they might have panicked a little bit and made some changes without really sitting down and probably seeing what’s best for the entire tour instead of just the top players to make sure they don’t go to live? Yeah, I think it was very reactionary to a a threat and uh you know, I guess everyone reacts differently when their job or their lives are threatened. Um so I can’t like fault them for that. Um I don’t think anyone was like we’re going to make this change is going to make the tour worse. You know they were trying to make it better but you know I I wouldn’t be surprised in a few years if we go back to something similar to where it was and and find some normaly um in the game. It’s a bummer that like the changes were so drastic so quickly um and it’s a bummer that majority of the fans probably can’t follow what the rules are or what the qualifications are um because of all the changes that have happened. Um, but no doubt it was reactionary and and a very emotional um decision-making time for the PJ tour. Yeah. I mean, it’s always been hard to get to the PJ tour. And now with the way things are going, I mean, Stan, think of how different it would be right now if you were turning pro right now, your same college career where you were a stud, you’re an NCAA champion, he went USM, we all turned pro around the same time. Think how different it is right now in terms of opportunities for those kids today versus what we were like 2008. Well, I mean, I would argue that Colt would have more opportunities or I would have more opportunities because because the PJ tour and things like that. So, it’s more open in that sense that there’s more pathway to the PJ or there’s more pathways to the PJ tour. I I noticed there’s a lot more amateurs getting starts on the PJ tour than there’s ever been. And that comes from I think NIL and these agencies that run events. They’re dangling these starts in front of these kids like, “Hey, sign with us. Be we’ll be your NIL agent and we can get you all these starts.” And good for the these agencies for doing that. Um but as a whole I think it’s much harder. And um you know the uh gentleman that won in um Utah, Michael Brennan Brennan. Yeah. You know like that’s a great story. Um he’s obviously a amazing talent and uh you know capable of accomplishing a lot in the game and he had to be his talent had to be suppressed for a few years um to get to where he’s at. Yeah. PJ Ti I’m a huge fan of it. I think you should let your star college kid you know there’s no draft or anything so like but giving them a chance and obviously that was a reaction to live too like these are the guys they’re going to want let’s make sure that they get an opportunity but outside of that like the rest of the golfing world it’s just kind of like like you said how can you make it till you make it I guess it seems like there nowhere to I think there’s people just be chasing it way less going forward because they can’t well and think about if this happened in another sport I mean the demographic that plays golf is is the halves and they they don’t necessarily need the money. So when money’s dangled, you know, not everyone’s going to bite. And if they did this in football, if the Saudis tried to take over football where guys a lot of guys don’t come from means and I think the percentage of people that would leave to go play in the different league would have been way higher. So that they’re changing they change golf tremendously and probably percentage-wise it’s less than it would have been in any other sport. It’s interesting. Going back to what you said earlier, I do think we both got screwed though. Bad wave again. But tell me about it. But but watching these co like you mentioned playing a lot of college kids playing in these events. I mean they’re logoed up everywhere. Like it’s unbelievable. I mean I played PJ tour event as an amate. I was just panicking trying not to break a rule so I don’t get suspended from the conference tournament. Like it’s nuts how much every I feel like pretty soon we’re gonna see an amter with netjets on their sleeve. Yeah. It’s not I don’t think you’re far off. I talk about too. I mean, these kids are obviously ridiculously good. And I mean, back when you were coming out of college, you’re ridiculously good as as well, but they just seem so much more prepared now. And I get it. There’s like they have more opportunities. More college events are on TV, but it’s just crazy to see how deep the game of golf is right now. This might be um controversial, but I think the game’s easier than it’s ever been. Agree with that. Like, it’s it’s easy to teach the game. it’s easy to easier to play the game because of technology, because of just the overall knowledge of golf is is tremendously high right now. And um you know, Trackman’s and and Foresight and all these launch monitors that you can use as a teaching tool and you can take a 12-year-old kid that’s pretty developed and say, “Hey, see that number there? That’s a minus. You want to hit a different shot? Make it a plus and explain how to do it.” And then you just leave them and it’s like go. And now you got you just have kids at younger ages have a better understanding of what they’re doing, how they’re moving the golf club, and then that makes getting the ball in the hole much easier. Yeah. I mean, the drivers the size of this bucket sitting right here in front of you. I mean, Bryson’s talking about developing a driver where no matter where you hit it on the face, it’s the same spin rate. I’m like, what the hell’s going on here? It’s going to be like the robot’s taking over everything else. It’s like, dude, if you just hit the face, everyone hits the same. As long as you hit the ball, it’s going to be fine. Yeah. I mean, I I can’t I don’t just the way the game’s gone. I totally agree with you. I think it’s way easier. I think it’s shrinking like the discrep and talent. Like, you can have a lesser talented guy keep up with a guy that’s a world beater just because of all the things that you just said. And I don’t necessarily think that’s great. I think it also shrinks the style of player that can compete out there. It’s turned into like one thing more or less. Just hit as hard as you can. What does it say about us three though? because we are all worse than we’ve ever been and the game’s easier than but I would say this like if I put in any time I know more guys that get out of it they’re 40 pluses even guys that come from the go to the champions tour I just play with Jason Duffner at the cow club member guys he’s like I’m longer I’m faster and longer than I’ve ever been in my life and he’s like and I don’t I’m not even a guy that’s like working out you know and he’s longer than he’s ever been the technology is wild I just ran into Kirk Triplet the other day and he brought in some of his old clubs over to the gym over here and he brought in a Wilson one iron oh yeah 95% of the [ __ ] PJ tour right now. Could not hit that at all. It’s It’s ridiculous. I mean, this thing is so tiny. I was like, he’s like, I used to hit this like 200 yards. I was like, if you mis hit it, did it go like 80? I mean, you And your hand was broken. Oh, yeah. It was unbelievable how tiny it was. Pull that out at the British when it’s cold. Could you even imagine? I [ __ ] I went back and looked at I still have my set from when I was a junior golfer. It was MP MP3s, Mazuna. And I I set them down like the 4 iron. I’m like, what on earth, dude? How did I Yeah. Yeah. And I was actually okay. You know, even the fairway wood, like I had that old steel head fivewood forever and it felt like it was the size like you put it down right now, it looks like the size of a golf ball. What was the Tigers 3wood? The PT, dude. The hardest club on the planet to hit 300 with it off like hard pan. That club. Do you ever have one of those? I think so. I was off of T you could hit it like 330. You hit it further than your driver. I’ve always been a club [ __ ] I have quite a garage. Yeah. How much you got in the garage right now? How many staff bags filled up? Pretty much. Maybe 20. 20 staff bags filled up for you or Chz. You think? CHZ. Chz has definitely the most putter. Probably the most everything. Chz Revy has more putters in his garage than the Scotty Scamron studio. But he’s not afraid to tinker. He couldn’t be a nicer guy, so it’s allowed. But this all could turn out to be a plan. Like this is his retirement. He’s gonna sell all this [ __ ] once he’s done. Well, you play with him, dude. It’s like, okay, you hit 14 fairways and 17 greens today. You want to play tomorrow at noon? Yeah. You show up tomorrow and he’s got a new driver and new irons. And I’m like, “Wait, that wasn’t you didn’t like what you saw there yesterday. You missed one green. What the [ __ ] are we?” It has worked for him. It has. He’s been great. I mean, he’s a Yeah. He’s a perfect example of a guy that’s going to be like harder and harder for that. Not that he was like short or anything, but he’s not a overpowering type of dude. He was just precise pursuit. Hit it out of the middle every single time. And now it’s just kind of becoming that superpower is being lessened a little bit with the way everything’s going. Yeah. I think that chess is being affected more by course setup. I think course setup has gotten easier and easier and easier over the years. Um and that I think the fans are dictating that. Um the tours the tour does studies each year on what the fans want to see and I think birdies draw um viewers and uh so we get we get rid of rough. We it’s softer than it’s ever been and uh I mean it’s a bummer because it there’s not a lot of strategy to it. Um you know if I was still playing I would probably not play many practice rounds because it’s just not necessary. The yardage books are way better than they’ve ever been. The courses are set up very consistently week to week. And so if you’re at the week, if you were there the week before, you know what you’re going to get the next week. And for a guy with the family, like if I played 30 events, if I get one more day at home, I’m be spending a month more at home with my family by just not playing one practice round. Good point. Slays wants carnage every week. Yeah. Not every week, but I want some of it. We get it a few time. What are the like for us? I don’t know, maybe it’s different because we’re golfers, but like Bay Hill’s fun to watch. Memorial is normally fun to watch. Like the hard ones are fun. It’s like do I tune in much to the MX? Not really. And I think it’s more firmness than it is rough. Like firmness is drives scores up more than rough does in my opinion. So yeah, you make it soft. Like you can make it any distance they want. The ball stops where it lands. Get back to Kevin Chapel. For the first time ever, shop.golf.com is offering a discount. Use code subpar 15 to take 15% off everything. Birdie Juice, TE’s, hats, all of it. Holiday gifting handled or just spoil yourself. Either way, go to shop.golf.com and load up. Now, back to Kevin Chapel. Yeah, I mean, some of that’s out of their control obviously with Mother Nature, but I totally agree. Like, when we first came onto the PJ tour in0708, like every single week seemed like it had three and a half 4 inch rough and now it’s like, okay, driving actually just doesn’t mean anything at all. Like, you got to ship it. And that’s where like going back to CHZ like his his strength is kind of out the window now. Like hitting fairways, hitting greens. Now it’s just smash it up there, have as little club as you can into every single green. And I mean, if we’re going to talk about CHZ, I think he’s done a good job of not trying to change his game. Like he’s it would be very hard to know that like these are the weapons you have. This is what you got to deal with. And he hasn’t really gone and tried to chase distance. Um he still continued to hit fairways and tried to um you know increase his precision um in a time where it would have been easy to go you know chase a bunch of distance. Absolutely. I mean yeah you do that hurt your shoulder and can’t really pick up your arm but whatever. And a guy that just makes like grinds out cut after cut. He has wins obviously too, but it was just consistency like when he was at his best over and over. It’s like that’s kind of even going away with the way like the tournaments, the amount of tournaments, the no cut or the tiny cuts in the signature events, you know, it’s like that’s less rewarded, too. I agree. And the longevity is going down for so many reasons, but um they’re not rewarding consistency. You got it’s feast or famine. um you it might be better to miss some cuts instead of gr to grind out you know a T-55 um just to get the rest that is required to compete out there now eater pocket season’s a perfect example he missed a million cuts but he won second and they were like oh great season great season only like I said only rook you made 22 cuts and finished 90th on the FedEx not that cool that’s not it and I don’t want this like we don’t want this to sound like sour old man you know yelling at the clouds type of stuff but it’s just like that’s just the way it’s going. Those are just like the the facts of the matter. I just I’m more like I guess I care more about like the kids, the young kids that are like it takes a few years to get out there to get your footing and I mean you could go through them. Like JJ Spawn’s a major champion. If there’s a hundred cards and you know the the path to the PJ tour is what it is now. We might not have him. [ __ ] A year and a half ago he was thinking about hanging them up, you know. Oh, I mean there’s a bunch of guys he can Yeah. I think um there’s like I said there’s the game’s easier. So, there’s more guys that can do it. It’s just finding that little tweak that kind of gives you the edge. Um, I think it’s impressive that of the guys like Adam Scott really impresses me. his the in the er areas that he’s played in, he’s his games adapted to whatever’s been required and he’s obviously a generational talent because of that. But, you know, there was times where precision was required and and you know, you’re trying to beat Tiger Woods and you know, you can’t beat him at his game, so you got to get better at in other areas um to compete with him. And then now it’s you know, feast or famine. Let’s just try to it’s win or last and let and like that’s what we’re going for. and he’s evolved and and and his games transferred into that era as well. So, um that that’s always impressed me, the guys that can have the longevity and do it different ways throughout. It’s like baseball. It’s either home run or strike out. Don’t really care. There’s no sacrificing, no just trying to get the ball on the ground, none of that anymore. Um I forgot where I was going to go with that. Oh, I So, you have a very high golf IQ in my opinion. Like, I think you’re a student of the game. You pay attention a lot more than people might realize. With that being said, Scotty Sheoffller is number one player in the world. Can you just talk about like how impressive he is for to do the way he does it, the way he goes about his game? Because another guy that doesn’t like just smash it. He’s not going to wow you, I would say like like a Roy Mroy off the tea or anything like that. Well, I think Scotty goes back to how he’s coached. He’s probably the most undercoached guy on the PJ tour. Um Randy does an amazing job with them, but you never see a Trackman. You never see um them talk or hear them talking Trackman numbers. It’s like, “Hey, hit a shot. Mhm. Hit it through that window. Hit it through that window. Make the ball do this. And he has really he really owns that. He has he has the best face control of anyone ever probably. Um and uh you know ultimately that’s all that matters is when you put the face on the ball that you know where it’s going to go and he he can really do that. And then he’s evolved into an incredible putter um when he needs to be and and his short game’s always been, you know, spot on. Yeah, that’s what was terrifying is when, you know, two years ago he was dead last in putting for four days and he was missing playoffs by a shot or whatever. Now he’s a top 20 in the world world. It’s like, how the hell are these guys going to beat him? And and they’re not. Um, now there’s And they’re not. And they’re not. They’re not with the with the numbers he has now. You know, Scotty has a lot of moving pieces and he’s going to get older and as you know, as you get older, you lose control of your body a little bit. And, you know, you guys had Padre on and he talked about everyone’s careers are defined by like a 21-month period or a 20-month period where you you peak. And maybe we’ve seen Scotty’s 20-month period. Now, that doesn’t mean he’s not going to play great golf. It just might be a step below of where the where his peak was. And that’s what Tiger had stretches of 20 months that were incredible and then the rest of it was still incredible but slightly worse. And so when you get, you know, a generational talent that does that, like he even he’s going to have a period of time that the golf was significantly better than anywhere else. And now it might come down, but it’s still going to be great. He’s still going to win four or five times a year. And that’s just because of who he is. Yeah. Winning seven, eight, nine times, that’s just not going to happen for a decade straight. You don’t I wouldn’t think. No. But you never know. It’s just I think it’s just so impressive to watch him even when he it seems like he plays bad. He finishes eighth. And everybody else it’s like, “Oh, great week.” And Scotty’s like, “God, I played terrible and I just lost by two.” That might be the most impressive thing. Like he wins. We know when he get when he’s on he’s better than everybody, but when he’s off, he’s almost as good. That’s crazy. That’s the crazy part cuz everybody’s like, “Oh, who’s when when they’re all peing, who’s the best?” I was like, “That’s not the question because they’re all great and they all can beat anybody.” It’s when you don’t have it, who’s the best? And he’s hands down that. Yeah. And I think that comes from the just the face control he’s got. His ball’s never getting too far off line. Hit it bad once. Miss a green, Scotty. If you’re going to go back now and you had the chance to do anything different in your career, would you? You get to talk to Kevin Chapel turning pro right now. Yeah, I probably would have been less harsh on myself. I think, you know, being hotheaded, being um extremely driven was good, but I it was probably detrimental at times um led to maybe relationships being affected um within my team and and created some volatility that didn’t need to exist. Um, just being a little bit more of a pro probably would be how I would define it. And just like understand that there’s going to be natural es and flows with someone that had the talent that I had. Like I was never going to be the number one player in the world even as much as I wanted to be. But I had the ability to have a long sustained career in the top probably 30 in the world. and being okay with that. Um, I probably would have had a longer better career instead of, you know, expecting more than the ability that I had. And that’s a hard thing to do, I think, because as a like all you’ve done all your life is win, be the best. It’s always the goal. Be the best college kid, be the best amateur, be the best pro. And then it’s like if you get there and like maybe that’s not real, that’s a hard thing to come to grips with mentally. Well, exactly. And I, you know, I wasn’t ever the best junior player, but got better as I got older in college. I, you know, I was I got lucky to get on the UCLA golf team and and then, you know, earned my way and just kept progressing and then in the professional ranks. I did that early on and then it’s like, oh man, this this the progression is getting steeper and steeper and harder and harder. But that’s all I’ve had for the last 12, 15 years of my life is progression. And all I would do is relate the progression to finishes and tournaments. And so then it becomes harder. you start to win or you start to get in contention and you’re like, “Oh man, like the mountain’s getting steeper and harder to harder to continue to grow.” And then I become edgier, expect more out of the people on my teams. And really, it just needed to lower my expectation or have an understanding of who I was as a player and where that correlated to the PJ tour and say like, “Hey, I could win once or twice a year for a long period of time with exactly what I have and not need to do anymore and that should be pretty [ __ ] good.” Yeah. You’re you’re absolutely right. I mean, it’s tough to admit that, but I mean, at the end of the day, you look back and you’re like, “Yeah, I mean, look, trust me, I get it. I I know exactly where you’re coming from with that, but maybe you don’t you have less success if you’re not as driven and not as hot-headed and, you know, so it’s hard to say.” And that’s just the nature of golfers. I feel like you’re never like content with what you have. Like, it’s higher. I mean, he beat the game and then he stripped it down and started over with a new golf swing. It’s like cuz it might make him this much better. Yeah, maybe. Like, that’s just kind of the the way we’re wired. I think if I was going to ask you to pick a highlight or what you’re most proud of in your career, um, can’t say Valero. Okay. Can you say? Uh, I’d say the golf I played from in 2016. Like I had a few chances to win prior to that, but I I think I finished second five times um in 16. And it’s like just the consistency I showed and just being able to bounce back from a close call and have another close call. like I was really proud of that and the proud of the work that um the team I was on like was able to accomplish. Um and that really led to the success I had in 17. Representing your country is um a really cool honor. I probably would go would have gone about that much differently if I got to do it again. Um but you know that’s something I’ll never forget as well. Yeah, except you had to play with the seagull. That wouldn’t change that. Remember when he took Joe’s hat off? Yeah. Almost killed him. Would not change that at all. would probably would have taken it in a bit more and not thought like ah I’m here now like can’t wait to get on that that Rder Cup team next year you know that’s a great point I mean we we say that all the time like we at Whistling Straits we’re like look at this team they’re going to be together forever and like they’re going to dominate now it’s like oh [ __ ] some of these guys might only play one Ryder Cup like I mean Max who looked like he was on top of the world played over in um Rome and and played great he was the highlight of the US team and then the game is mean and sometimes it it slaps you in the face and you know he wasn’t even considered for that team this year. The game is mean but more importantly like we are humans playing a game and there’s so many things that happen in life outside of the cameras and the golf scores you shoot that you don’t know what’s going on in someone’s life. I mean, we all bet we all bet sports and it’s like, man, you you just don’t know what happened to that 19-year-old quarterback, you know, this week between the last time he took a snap and, you know, I think as a whole, like as a society, we got to give each other some grace on that stuff. Um, because you just don’t know what’s going on. Yeah. I think that exact thing every Saturday afternoon is I’m betting on. I’m like, I don’t know. Probably just got broken up as his third pick. God, you still do better, man. But you’re killing me. Yo, some 18-year-old. I’ll tell you one of my favorite memories of your golf career will go down as the greatest soundbite clip in Cornfar Tour history. That one the [ __ ] down. It was so clear. It was like you put your mouth on the mic and we’re like they’re literally going to catch this. It was so good. Yeah, that was that was funny. We’re in DC and they did need to sit down. It went a little K. Cochril is a friend and she was like, “Yeah, he’s not happy there.” And the next day I was I got to the golf course and Rico, he uh he’s out there. He was a rules official and he’s like, “Hey, I need to talk to you.” I was like, “Ugh.” He’s like, “I was watching the coverage last night and they replayed an incident.” And I was like, “What’ I do?” And he’s like, “You know what you did.” I was like, “Yeah, shouldn’t have said that.” He’s like, “It’s all good. The boom mic was too close to you. We’re not going to do anything about it.” Oh, beautiful. Awesome. By the way, how about a little 10-second delay, Rico? What a TV production. It was solid. It was a solid hookup. It was one of the good ones. Um, you’re done. You made a decision to be done. What? What? What now? you got a good question on deck. Anything interest you? I guess the first thing I did was like assess what what can I bring to society or bring to life and uh you know my strengths are my ability to play golf, ability to talk to people. Uh I feel like I’m pretty good um sustaining and and uh making relationships. And so those are strengths that I can bring to any job or any business I decide to jump into. Um don’t really want to stay in golf. Um, I think for so long that was my identity. I’m a golfer. I’m a golfer. I’m a golfer. And the more I get removed from it, the more I see that I’m capable of so much outside of that. And that excites me. Um, but I still always play golf um and and enjoy that and look forward to like playing with my kids and and having um that uh be a part of our lives and and think of it fondly. Um, I’ve been doing some work with a um, mental performance app called Mastery, trying to help them launch that. Um, that’s been enjoyable and it being able to use the connections I’ve made through golf. I don’t think that’s the end all be all, but just trying to I guess a friend of ours gave me advice and he’s just like, you can’t go idle. Do not go idle. And so, I’ve just tried to stay as busy as I can, go to lunch with as many people as I can, pick people’s brains and uh, and just see what comes up. I got an idea. You should start a golf podcast. There’s not very many. Hello. It’s there’s zero barrier to entry. You just go in and talk [ __ ] and that’s it. I I uh I’m out on that. But I would love to help the tour. Um you know, I think there’s a going to be an issue with the careers being shorter. We’re one of the only major sports that does nothing to with for players into retirement. And we have a model that exists on the tour, the proam model that can work in reverse. Like why can’t I go to farmers insurance and because I’m interested and and get trained and get an education and be a resource for farmers as they are to us um being a sponsor of the PJ tour. And that’s just an example. Farmers, don’t call me. I don’t want to sell insurance, but I uh I You’d be good. Yeah, I’m sure I would. And it it might I might enjoy it. So call me actually, [ __ ] it. I But I I that’s something I want to pursue with the tour and say like, “Hey, we got to do better here cuz like let’s look in the mirror. There’s going to be more and more people quitting.” And the last thing they need me to do, the PJ tour needs me to do is to go get a job and you know with a major company and they say, “Hey, we’re looking at sponsoring this tour event.” And there’s how was your time on the tour? And me to say, “Nah, it’s just transactional.” like, you know, I what I made what I earned and I have no relationships there anymore. Like that’s not that’s not what the PJ tour needs. They need me to say, “Hey, like that was a great time. They still take care of me. I still talk to people there. Um my best friends still play or work on the tour.” And like that’s if I was a business, that’s where I would invest. And uh you know, I think we need to get back to that. And I would love to be a catalyst to help create something like that uh for the tour and for the people coming up because careers are going to get shorter. That’s very very well said. Um 39 years old. I mean I know you still love the game and you’re still going to play occasionally, but do you think once you know you start getting to that magical number of 50? You think the itch will come back at all and be like, you know what, maybe we take a run at the champ tour? I I don’t know. I mean, what my wife talks about, she’s like, “I can’t believe you’re going to take the the retirement years of traveling the Champions Tour away from me, you know, like that we were going to have no kids. It was going to be great.” And but right now, I mean, I have not missed um being on the road and grinding one bit. Uh yet, I have missed like being good. Like, I mean, I’ve played a handful of times since middle of July and I am not good and I don’t know what my handicap is. So gambling’s really hard and you’re not you’re like you’re just hurting a partner because they play you into too high of a handicap. So that’s my concern right now is like hey where can I what can I play to with minimal effort and still have fun and be like a member of the gambling group and and like make sure the bets are are fair. You know what you sound like a midm 2040 rolls around you’d be back in the game. Did I hear you’re doing this? I just applied to see what they would say. And what have they said? We I got an email saying the committee still needs to meet to u pick a specific date, but 2028. So it’ be basically December 31st, 8 years of sitting out. Okay. Yeah, they better. There you go, dude. Once again, this is We don’t need to get into this stuff. You could probably be like 2035. You could get back. You get a decade. I bet. Yeah. Just I don’t need that. No, you don’t. I’m just saying if you just want to drink and gamble and just be okay, that’s the life. Yeah. The thing you need to worry about the most is how you’re going to handle the first time you actually stroke on a hole. It’s nerve-wracking. That will be weird. 14 lower, bud. [ __ ] I’m now zero. Hanging around Scottsdale. I’m sure it’s going to happen a few times with some of the talent around here nowadays. Well, you better take them or you’re going to lose. Correct. That’s the bad news about you though. Unless you start playing a ton of golf and posting scores, which probably low probability, you’re going to always be held to like your peak. Like, oh, you’re plus, you know, not maybe not even your peak, but like you’re plus six guy. It’s like, well, no, I hit balls every day and like I’m way worse than I used to be. Yeah, that have you taken a golf lesson since you quit? Mhm. That’s that other one is like, do I think I’ll ever take a golf lesson again? So, need some more information. Do you didn’t get enough of So, but it’s very different than it used to be. It’s 30 minutes of talking, 30 minutes of hitting balls. It’s basically just to get out and hit a few and we hit like film four or five swings and be like, “Oh, you know, this is a little different than this.” And then it’s done. It’s not like we’re making crazy changes to try to get better. I’m just trying to be like make sure I hit it out of the middle of the face. Yeah. I got Blackburn like John Costas. I’ll go down and hit balls with him a couple times a year. People you want to hang out with. Yeah. I just did it the other day. Like I was like, “Man, I was playing really well for a month. went to Vegas, played member guest, obviously had a good time, came back, swing felt a little different, hit some balls, and like four swings in, he’s like, “Hey, your hands are just getting a little too deep. Keep it out in front of you.” And it all felt back to normal. I was like, “Cool.” And then we just [ __ ] it for 30 minutes. That’s great. Just like that. There is a liberating time, I feel like, when you quit and all of a sudden for the first time ever, you don’t care about like you’re you’re not worried about it and you just start like I wanted to hook it. I do this. I want to fit and not like where the club is and stuff. And that was always that was like a revelation actually. I think like there’s that thought of, oh, it’ll just be easier once I quit. And it’s like, no, you quit because you were shitty. So, you’re not just going to get better because you’re not, it doesn’t matter anymore. And like that’s where I’m at. I was like, I was really struggling to drive out there for a little while. I’m not driving it any better by playing less. You won’t care. But I have another driver, so maybe it’s good. I need to like cart path only right now. Like, oh yeah, let’s get the right misses, please. Oh, yeah. Right. You got to have that high right. I’ll tell you the one thing. if you ever go cuz like I still do occasionally enjoy just going out and hitting balls just listening to some music and [ __ ] Took uh one of the launch monitors out there one day went through the bags like man that was a nice little practice session. 63 golf balls. 63 is a monster. This is I’m I could have stopped 20 balls ago. I got a Trackman collecting dust. I’m not sure if that’ll get ever get used again. Oh yeah, I’ll give you 500 for it. Put that thing pull that thing out. It’s your little grind. Well, dude, I’m happy for you. It sounds like you’re you’re you know, you had an unbelievable career, extremely successful. Now you can do whatever you want and I’m sure whatever you choose, you’ll be great at it. No, I appreciate you guys having me on. It was a I kind of struggled with the idea of doing it. didn’t want to sound like a old man yelling at the clouds and um hopefully it comes off that I really am grateful for what I had and and look forward to the next um next opportunities that come about and I really just want the game to be in a better place and and continue for those that earn their way to get to compete at it for a long period of time. That’s awesome, man. You sound like you’re really happy and in a good spot and I’ve known you for a long time, man. Proud of you. Thank you. Appreciate the time, brother. Golf podcast. Think about it. That’s a new idea. All right, that was our man Chappie joining us on Subpar, deciding to step away from the game. I’ve known him since I believe we were 17 years old. I’ve never seen him this happy and I’m so pumped for him, man. I know it’s it’s tough to step away because this is all you’ve ever known and this is what you dreamed to do as a kid, but there’s more to life than than golf. And you know, he had a hell of a run out there like you said, 17 years, 310 starts. Uh he’s a winner. um competed in major championships, represented his country. Um he should be very proud of his career. He’s had a monster career. Even going back to the to the amateur side uh as well. And you know, when I was talking to him about coming on this season, he’s like, you know, maybe a little too fresh right now. I don’t want to sound like, you know, grumpy guy that’s not playing golf anymore in terms of like where the PJ tour is going and stuff. But I think that’s exactly the type of guys you need to talk to to just kind of see. He’s not saying it’s right or wrong, but he’s like this is the way things are going. This is the way things are going to change. And um it’s cool to get his perspective and to your point like I think he’s been one foot in one foot out with the injuries and the things like that and not knowing when he’s getting starts. I think he’s been as okay with this decision to step away as as anyone I can think of. Most people the game just like kicks you out whereas Chappie I think was more like I’m I’m I’m ready to be done and do something else. 39 years old and as we talked about in the interview like it’s hard to go backwards. It’s hard to go down there to the corn tour. And like he said, he was sitting there in the Bahamas after making both cuts thinking like how many of these people actually made money this week? Like what are we doing? And it’s different. Like I love the corn tour. It’s a it’s when you’re coming out of college, it’s a great spot to be in. You’re excited. You’re pumped. You know you have a chance to get to the PGA tour. But when you’ve spent whatever it was 11 12 years on the PGA tour like Chappie has, it’s hard to go backwards. No, without qu and like do you have the energy to do it? These kids are going to want to play every single week. They don’t care about packing up and being on the road for four straight weeks, five straight weeks. like you got kids, you’re saying bye. Like, oh my god, I’ve done this for 17 years. It’s a totally different animal. And plus, he was it’s not like he needed to keep like he’s been very successful. He can step away and do whatever whatever he wants right now. And um yeah, it was good to get his perspective on where it’s going. I think you’re going to see like he said, shorter careers out on the PJ tour, it’s going to be harder to hang out there. And then I think guys, honestly, the biggest thing for me is I think fewer guys are going to chase it for very long. and guys that are playing right now that are great players. We may never see some of those guys if cuz it’s you just can’t stay afloat. Yeah. And look for him to drop a golf podcast here anyway. Right. Coming soon. All right, man. That was fun. Chappie, congrats on a great career, man. Really enjoyed sitting down with you.