Major Winner Lucas Glover: Pro Golf is Headed in the Wrong Direction

Major winner Lucas Glover discusses shrinking fields, growing purses, what fellow players are saying privately, why many don’t speak out, and what keeps him motivated.

Welcome back to Any Given Monday here with six-time PJ tour winner, US Open winner at Beth Page, Lucas Glover. Lucas, thanks for the time. Absolutely. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. All right, let’s start with I always wonder like as a player, you obviously want to be there. Do you watch the RDER Cup, Lucas, or No. I mean, I know you got stuff going on at your house, but like generally, are you paying attention? Yeah, absolutely. Um, as I’ve said often, I think it’s one of the um, highest honors a person can have in sport to represent their country. And, uh, and yeah, I uh, I’ve watched a good bit in the past. And, uh, yeah, I uh, I do um, I wouldn’t take three or four hours out of a day like a Saturday like I do for Clemson football, but I do pay attention to it and uh, and keep up with it. Yes. Uh, is there any more like do you because it’s Beth Paige, is there any like that makes you want to watch it more or less, Lucas, because you won your US Open there? I mean, the setup seems wildly different. They’ve kind of Yeah, it does. Um, haven’t noticed as much rough and uh um some of the part three seem a little little different, but uh but yeah, I uh I I’ll find myself um trying to remember what a putt does or yeah um what I would maybe be hitting from a certain spot or where I would try to hit my ball if the you know the pin was here the uh pin was there where I try to hit it in the fair you know stuff like that but uh um just like anywhere else anything else where you’ve played a course a lot or have good memories of a place yeah you always kind of think about that stuff there’s a lot of similarities I assume to today Lucas outside of the setup seems easier obviously But a lot of rain at the US Open when you won. So, uh I mean I think you shot seven under. Uh but like I assume today had a lot of the same feelings that that you did a few of those rounds when it was like soaked. Yeah, for sure. Um, I guess it was pretty dry first of the week and then uh I think they got hammered what Wednesday, Thursday leading into the first first round. And um yeah, we I mean I didn’t hit a shot I didn’t hit a competitive shot that week in ’09 until like Friday afternoon. Only played five holes on Friday. So, um but yeah, the only thing I’ve noticed is looked like they were playing it up. had a lot of mud on the ball and um we never had that issue, believe it or not. We never played it up. It It was weird that it never was overly muddy that week. It was just uh it was almost like it was so wet. Uh the ball instead of plugging. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Honestly. Yeah. All right, Lucas, let’s go back to like I always love the process of of the PGA Tour, like doing some studying. You had a chip in 2002 that you lipped out on the well it wasn’t the se was it the no it must not have been the 72nd hole whatever however many six rounds 108 hole yeah 108th hole and you have said that like at that moment it was heartbreaking but looking back it probably was what’s best for you I think it’s such a great insight into that for most players golf is a multi-year process to get to the top of the game in hindsight Are you saying that because you weren’t ready for the PJ tour at that time? 100% 100% was not ready. Um yeah, that happened basically a year after I left college. Um I went back an extra semester at Clemson to to graduate. uh even though I didn’t even though I was out of eligibility, I missed first stage acute school, still taking classes and just trying to trying to tie a bow on something and start my career at the same time, which is probably too much. And then I did uh what every aspiring pro does without status. I went anywhere and everywhere and played Monday. Um I think I played six or seven different tours that that year in O2. Um and played I played nice. I got on a little run on the on the what’s now the cornfairy tour. Had a bunch of top 25s. Ended up playing in different ways nine or 10 weeks in a row, whether it was Monday top 25, getting an exemption or two uh into some of those. So, I had earned my way uh onto the what is now the cornfairy tour in 2003. um still going to Q school with the opportunity to get my tour card and yeah ended up it was on the ninth hole at PGA West Lipped out a a chip ended up starting on 10 that last day for whatever reason and um and yet it stunk. It absolutely stunk at the time. It was terrible, right? But looking back on it, probably the best thing that happened to me because I had not played an entire year on one tour. I had not played um a full season of of real golf and week in and week out where I I had to be on and traveling and maturing and all of the things that go into to to playing and playing well on the PGA tour. I I was not used to I think that year in um 03 04 or sorry 03 leading into 04 I think that full year on the corn what’s now cornfy um was the best thing for me at the time you know you I assume you’re not that took years right Lucas to like come to that like any kid coming out of college with you college career you had like you’re like I’m ready of course I’m ready what do you mean I just missed it by one shot like I’m Right. I’m fine. Like, yeah, I I Yeah, it took five, six, seven years for me to come to that conclusion for sure. Um because you, like you said, everybody that’s had any success in college or you know, first team all-American or won some tournaments or um you know, had a good run in the US AM or whatever it may be, says, “Man, I’m ready. I’m gonna get out there and just blow it out.” And um there’s not many that have done that. There’s been a few, but not many. Um, but, uh, just from a a traveling standpoint, a learning golf courses, um, just all the things that go into having a successful year on the PGA Tour is a lot more than I think a what a lot of people um, understand or or think about until they look back on it. Um, but yeah, it did. It took me a few years to realize that. And um, yeah, you know, I think I was 20. I think I just turned 23 when that happened. And I needed that year. Um, playing with people that were better than me. Um, and that wanted the same thing I wanted, which was to be on the PGA tour and and everybody fighting tooth and nail. And the money wasn’t what it was now or wasn’t wasn’t what it was or wasn’t what it is now back then. And I mean it was it was scratching a living together. Yeah. Lucas, I mean, I we all talk about the golf the golf and I mean, of course, you had the talent, but what you just touched on is kind of the things that a lot of fans don’t talk like how to practice, how to not be tired come Thursday, how to how to what you do in a practice round, like especially now, but back then the the jump was huge. And so that’s it, right? Like you probably just like talent to talent may have been able to make it on the PJ tour that year, but there’s so many things that go into playing well Thursday through Sunday that you don’t know what the hell you’re doing, right? 100 100%. Yeah. I mean, so yeah, I mean, let’s let’s think about it. So I grew up in um Greenville, South Carolina. Jay Hos was uh lived there, married um married into into a family from from Greenville and and he lived there and fortunately I always was able to practice and play where he was a member. And so at the time when I got on PGA tour, I want to say Jay was 48 or nine. Um and so he had been on the tour for 25 or six years. Do you think he had more experience and knew the golf courses and knew how to travel and all of those things better than me? Absolutely. So, I’m expected to go on the PGA tour as a 23-year-old rookie and learn golf courses that Jay Hos has been playing for 25 or six years at the time, literally. And um I’m doing that for the first time. And oh yeah, I’ve got to travel, which I’ve never done alone for a full year. Um, so just the Yeah. And I got to be ready on Thursday and oh man, not not be tired and oh, I’m not going to get in this week on my numbers. Now I got to go get ready for the Monday. Yeah. And oh yeah, I got to rest and oh yeah, I got to eat good. And so yeah, I mean all the things, right? And you know, I’m not uh you know, I’m not just throwing Jay’s name out there for for any specific reason. I learned a lot from him and and looked up to him all those years and just a great example. Um but yeah, there’s there’s a learning curve um there for sure. Um Q&A’s proams I get asked a lot about what my week looks like and when I tell somebody they go really really you know I say all right so I got a 750 tea time um on Thursday morning. They you know what time you get up? I said 4. They go, “What? Four till like six?” I go, “No, like 4 am.” Yeah. Right. Golf, you know. And uh um they said, “Well, what do you do after the round on an early day?” I said, “Well, I practice and work out.” And they go, “What do you mean?” I, you know, practice and work out, you know, because then I got the next day to to sleep in a little bit, you know, but I just don’t think the general public understands um especially now that training and nutrition and recovery is such an important thing to us and for us and especially me at my age now. um what goes in uh hourly or daily on the PGA Tour um to get ready to play and and each day. Um so um to say uh you expect a rookie or expect a young guy to to come out immediately and compete, that takes a special talent. And you know, we’re seeing more and more of it because college golf is so preparatory now for success. Um, it wasn’t even that it wasn’t even close to what we’re seeing now when I was coming up. Back to your Q school. I think you finished T39. I think there was 38 PGA Tour cards or something to that effect. Uh, that’s obviously down to five. It’s not. So, you’ve been outspoken about that side of golf. Lucas, I want to take it from a different perspective. What has been the feedback? I mean, you’re probably one of the few, if only that I can think of, top players that has been very outspoken about the changes. A lot of players I talked to, they just don’t want to fight the fight. So, has there been any fight, Luca? I mean, and I don’t I understand it’s not a fight. Just has there been discussions? Has there been any relationship changes based on what you have said? Is that have you given any thought to not saying anything going forward? Uh yeah, actually I have. It’s uh um I’ve just come to the realization very recently that it I’m fighting an uphill battle and probably a a battle that uh that can’t be um it can’t be won and can’t be changed and and that’s sad and um the US team is getting is getting criticized this week and will a lot going forward for getting paid and sadly our court um has become too much about money in my opinion and um and we’re seeing that um come to an ugly head by you know they cut 25 tour cards which is basically 25 tour players jobs um and at the same time cut I don’t know 40 50% of the workforce in Ponavidra um because of money and they’re saying it’s because of pace of play and they’re hiding behind that and still will and always will, but that’s just garbage that that’s not possible. Um, and access to the PGA tour is going to be even more difficult. Um, access to the cornfairy tour thus is going to be more difficult. And what we’re going to see is not growth of the game anymore because it’s so hard to get to the top level. Um, we’re going to see a decline eventually. And um that’s been my biggest at the end of all of my rants, at the end of all of my things, I always just say, could somebody please that has the power just do something good for golf? Just do something good for golf instead of doing something good for a multi-millionaire tour player. Yep. Um, so I have come to the realization sadly recently that the people that agree with me and there are many many many many tour players that agree with me don’t have the nerve to say anything outwardly. Yeah. So nothing’s going to change. Yeah. um nothing’s going to change and the model is the only hope in that Lucas is that guys that believe what you believe and and and you’re obviously talking to way more but I talked to a lot of guys down down the money list or you know below the top 50 that are like say exactly what you’re saying they just don’t say it publicly. Is is the hope do you take any hope in the fact that those guys when they become that portion of people become the decision makers that they don’t pull the ladder up is that is there is there any hope for that down the line or or is it kind of like this is what we are going forward yeah that there there is that hope yes um but under the yes but the business side of it is going to outweigh those decisions because the model that we have adopted um that is solely around more money um less players more money um there’s no way to the toothpaste is out of the tube um so you can’t all of a sudden take eight or nine signature events six or seven without a cut and these guys making a bunch of money to keep them from going to the live tour which is why we did it to begin with all of a sudden you can’t you can’t reel that back say, “All right, bigger fields again, less money, purses are down, right?” Okay. Well, then what happens? Everybody leaves. Yeah. So, yeah, that’s the hope to be fair. Yes, that is the hope that somebody that’s 99th on the money list scraping by all of a sudden becomes the next Scotty Shuffler and says, “You know what? This is crap.” But is that likely? Probably not. Mhm. Um but it’s it’s just a shame that more people won’t won’t speak out. Um because I know a lot of people don’t like it. Um I know a lot of people that have benefited from it like myself don’t like it. Um but uh you know the money’s you know they’re just giving away so much money that nobody’s going to say anything. Yeah. and and your point to the the quality of product overall is I I’ve used this stat many times, Lucas, is at one point, it’s changed because I did this stat like a year and a half ago or something, but 15 of the top 50 players in the world got to the PGA Tour in a way that will be gone in 2026, right? Yep. And there’s no way to measure that because you’re we aren’t going to know that we’re missing out on someone. But the the fact of the matter is you’re going to miss out. Now, not all 15 of those people wouldn’t have made it to the PJ tour. That’s not what I’m saying. But yeah, whether it’s two or seven, they have made golf better because the one one of the top 50 players in the world and over time, they aren’t going to make it. So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That’s what we’re doing, right? Yeah. And and and to piggyback on that, I did not know that stat. That’s a wonderful stat and I’ll I’ll put that in the memory bank for sure. Um, but there’s several instances of guys winning a tournament that is now a signature event that propelled their career onto bigger and better things, major wins, etc., etc., that at the time they won that event, if it was a signature event, they wouldn’t even have been in the tournament. Yeah. And several of those guys were the biggest pushers of this new model. Um, and that’s that saying we use, you know, climbing the ladder and pulling it up behind you. Well, you wouldn’t even have been in the field if it was a signature event and that propelled your career. So, now you’re going to push to keep people below you from having the same opportunity. It it just doesn’t add up. Um, and I’ve said this a ton. We’re the only sport that’s limiting. This is it. This is the right quote. Yeah. This is it. We’re the only sport limiting opportunity and shortening our field and telling everyone that that’s more competition. Yeah. So, I’m Yeah. I was told point blank that that’s what our models and I’m using air quotes models showed the public wanted the fan wanted. Okay, great. So, but don’t tell us that, oh, it’s for more competition. No, you use lesser players, that’s less competition and you lose out on Eric Cole at Honda, which might have been the greatest story of two years ago. Mhm. I mean, that guy was a journeyman pro. He lives a mile from where I’m sitting. Love the love the guy. I was going to call him a kid, but he’s not a kid. Um, we’d have lost out on that or we, you know, under this because he would have never made it. And it’s it’s a shame. Um, but yeah, we’re gonna we’re going to give the fan and give more competition. Oh, yeah. But less players. Sure. No. Yeah. I mean, don’t my granddaddy would say, “Don’t pee on my back and tell me it’s raining.” Right. Right. I mean, I’m not stupid. Yeah. 100%. Republic isn’t either, but Yeah. Um, but we’re the only sport doing that. I don’t get it. Yeah. I I on top of the 15 out of 50, but you know, I use Neil Shipley, right? marketable kid like done it like uh had exemptions last year, finished like within the 200, had four starts to start the cornfair year and missed the first two cuts and then got played well enough to keep his card. now he’s going to be on the PJ tour, but he was literally two starts away from not having any status and two miscuts and and when there’s if he did that and there’s so much e harder to get to the PJ tour kids who like smart like super smart and he just goes like okay like this isn’t for me man I’m not going to grind those are the stories we’re going to miss out on because those doors are closing or Neil Shiffley’s not even getting starts on the corn ferry tour anymore because the everyone’s coming down from the PGA tour. I mean like the corn ferry tour next year is going to be PGA Tour light basically. Yeah. Yeah. I mean the the access the access is already limited. It’s going to be more limited and the you know let’s use a baseball model here. The the the cornfairy is supposed to be the upandcomers. Triple A. Um, you know, supposed to be the the Paul Sox, supposed to be the um, you know, this this Scranton Wilsberry farm team for the Yankees is supposed to be Triple A. It’s supposed to get everybody ready and now you’re going to have a bunch of tour vets down there playing and the 22 and three year olds aren’t going to have anywhere to go. Um, so yeah, it’s it’s uh it’s a shame, but you know, maybe somebody will, you know, launch another tour that’s a competitor that has some better access and pays these kids what they need to survive and live and figure it out. I don’t know. I mean, I don’t I just, like I said, somebody do something good for golf. Good grief. I mean, we’re we’re gonna we’re going to kill it at its highest point. I mean, postco, we were at the the the best state golf could possibly be in. People are wanting to be outside. They’re starting to play. They’re playing more. Clubs are figuring out that nobody has time for 18 holes. They’re building nine hole places, 12 hole places, and man, golf’s cool again. And now it’s like, yeah, and it’s still cool for the 60-year-old rich white guy, but it’s going to be harder and harder um for access. And you know, Tiger Woods ain’t coming around again, folks. I’m sorry. He’s just not. There’s only one of him. Yeah. And you know that boom we saw for 20 years because of him. And you know, a lot of people think it’s because of them and you know this and that. No, it was because of Tiger and there’s one of him. And we lived off of his popularity, all of us, for a long, long time. And yeah, when people in Pontavija realize that there’s not going to be that boom again, you know, maybe things will change, but as of now, they still think uh they still think the whatever they’re doing is right. Yeah. Any conversations with the new CEO, Lucas, or was your frustration kind of like is it had it kind of built up to a point of like, okay, this is pointless by the time he he got around? Yeah. No, I I I met him there in Hartford. He was great. Very nice. Um and uh I think I missed his call when he called me. He did call. Um I missed it and um the player relations staff has has tried to get us in touch and I’ve been reluctant and um honestly just decided that I didn’t need to have that conversation. Um, when the new schedule came out, they added another signature event, took another full field event out, that was kind of it for me. That’s that’s what made me realize that it wasn’t changing and it was going to get worse. I mean, they they pulled out a full field event, put in another signature event at the worst possible place in the schedule to Yeah, guys are going to have two halfp point starts between the PGA and the Masters, like I mean the Masters and the PJs. Yeah, exactly. And you know, and I know your listeners can say, “Well, Lucas, you don’t have to play in them if you don’t like.” Well, I’m not stupid, right? Yeah. I mean, my listeners are on our side, Lucas. My listeners are the nerds of the world that want That’s That’s what a lot That’s been a lot of Yeah, I understand. That’s been a lot of the push back with me. You’re not discounting the all the benefits you have of them. Yeah. Yeah, like you’re talking to that. That’s the problem with golf is like it’s a very selfish sport and I appreciate that some of the top guys are in a position to make themselves a lot of money and they’re watching their friends, former competitors walk away and make hundreds of millions. Yeah. But at some point, somebody’s got to say, is this what’s best for the future of golf? Not just player A, B, and C. Like, yeah, exactly. Someone to do that. And that’s and I thought I thought for a minute that could be me. And when the new schedule came out and all I’m hearing is the same conversation, money, money, money, money, money. And when’s the last time anybody talked about the charity initiative of the PGA Tour? When’s the last time anybody talked about the billions of dollars that we made for charities across the country and communities where we play? Nobody talks about that anymore. Why not? Well, it’s because it’s not a focus anymore. Unfortunately, the wholesome family atmosphere of the PGA tour is gone. Overtaken by money, money, and more money. Yeah. And it’s it it hurts. It hurts somebody that 21 years. Next year will be my 22nd year. And for 19 18 or 19 of those years, it was this warm feeling of being in an organization that gave back. And that’s that was our big focus. Um was the betterment of the game and propping up charities that needed us in their communities. And then it’s gone. It’s gone. that as soon as you have to do what we had to do to prop up our our treasure chest with private equity and all the things, I mean, that it’s gone and it’s it stinks. And that’s another that was another thing that really made me want to speak out was that we just it’s not how it it’s not how it was and it it just seems seems dirty, honestly. It just seems kind of Yeah, that’s a word I’ve used a lot. the top of pro golf feels very dirty. Very dirty. Like we’re making signings and we’re wearing like it’s like more like find ways to make these guys money and you know again the Ryder Cup is the same and it’s just uh yeah it’s it’s said okay to that point of what is a business five years you’re going to be eligible for the champion Stewart will it be there Lucas for you in five years? Well, that uh really really really popular guy that I mentioned a minute ago. Um if he Yeah, he holds the all the keys, right? Yeah. Right. If if he deci if he decides to go out there and play um you’ll it’ll be there. It’ll be there. It’ll be bigger than ever. Talking about more money 100%. And uh so yeah, I think that I think I think he holds the cards there, too. And uh I don’t know. I um I I you know, even the the the the few times he’s played in the last couple years, unfortunately, um those events have um gone crazy. And I mean, the dude still moves the needle. It’s so impressive. Um and yeah, I mean that that would be the best thing that could possibly happen to the Champions Tour is if Tiger commits to playing even if it’s only five or six times out there. Um, and you know, might be beneficial to him too cuz then he can ride a little bit and and not not have to walk so much and then he can still play his majors and the tournaments on the tour he wants to play and um but yeah, if he commits to playing out there that tour will take off like never before. Is it hard, Lucas, feeling how you feel to be motivated for a season or are those two separate things? like you are I mean you’ve had like an amazing career two 23 unbelievable you like but also realistic that at 45 years old you’re like at at the tail end of your career is this are you able to separate what you want to accomplish next season and how you feel about going out there or is that impossible to separate like is you don’t feel as good about where you play it is going to affect your motiv motation to to play? Yeah. No, it’s a great question. Um the motivation is still there for sure. I want to play great. Um I actually played for the entire season um this year probably better than I did in 23 even though I just couple of wins and um and all that, but um the motivation’s still um still there. Competitive juices are still there. can definitely compartmentalize it and could it even motivates me some to play well. So maybe my voice does carry a little more weight. Um so a lot of a lot of motivating things, a lot of lot of ways to be motivated. Um yeah, just got this off season to rest up, get super healthy, and and come out swinging in in 26. And you know, know my schedule 90% of the way. I still got to play my way into some majors, but uh I’m in all the the top 50 signature event things. So, yeah, got a great opportunity next year and um I am able to compartmentalize those things. Um but can also use the latter part of that question as motivation. Yeah, that’s a very good point. I didn’t think of Yeah, like you want to hear your voice heard, you win three signature events, they’re going to hear it. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. All right, Lucas, thank you. I know you got some work going on at your house, hiding in a a corner room or whatever. I appreciate it very much. I appreciate the fact that you speak up. It’s obviously the side of golf I cover and uh it it’s I understand all the players that I that I talk to that don’t want to speak up. It is frustrating to talk to all these players and then people the general public think that oh like all these players think it’s great. No, about 12 players think it’s great. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you’re dead on. Well, we appreciate uh you sticking up for us and I keep fighting the fight. Awesome. Thanks, Lucas. I appreciate it. No problem. Thank you.