Golf historian Jaime Diaz joined host Gary Williams in studio today and the two talked Scottie Scheffler, the upcoming Ryder Cup, who plays with Bryson DeChambeau, the role that Rory McIlory will play, how the rosters stack up, the toughest decisions for Keegan Bradley and much more. We ended the show with our latest version of the golf dogs of the week.
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[Music] Good morning. Welcome into Five Clubs. Great to have you with us. It’s nice to be back. It’s nice to be home. Not only here on Golf Channel, but also PJ Tour Radio. That is channel 92 on SiriusXM. I am Gary Williams and this program always brought to you by Century Insurance right by you. If you have business insurance needs, they will meet them at the highest level. Golf Pride. When it comes to materials and products and options, there is no grip company in the world that provides more for you than Golf Pride does through the bag, including that reverse taper putter grip series. Peter Malar, it’s the fall season. There’s a touch of fall in the air. If you need to layer up, they have every answer because they have the most comprehensive, thorough line of clothing that you could ever want. It’s a lifestyle brand. And finally, Piners, the cradle of American golf. with 10 golf courses. They have a lot to offer you. Certainly at Pinehurst on this Wednesday because it’s our lone day. We’ve been out and about at some great events. Uh thank all the people who put on these great events around these juniors, including not only the underrated, but the first TE as well. Uh they know who they are. I thank them. Today for this hour, we’re going to jam in a lot with somebody who has as much to offer in terms of his viewpoint on the game as anybody. contributor to Golf Digest to Golf Channel. You’ll see him a lot next week on live from the RDER Cup at Beth Page and we are proud to get him when we can get him as a modest contributor here on Five Clubs. I’m of course I’m speaking with Jaime Diaz, my friend. Good morning. Good morning, Gary. Good to be with you. It’s good to be with you. You and I spent the evening last night. Uh you dazzled the folks at Caramel Country Club talking Rder Cup. We’re going to do a lot of that. We’re going to try to jam in as much as we can over the course of this hour. not only kind of how did we get here, but what do you think we might see next week, but I I do when I get with you, I always want to get your thoughts on things that are that are kind of bigger to for you to give context on performance because you have this great depth to to talk about players that we’re watching now and make them relatable to those that you saw before. And so let let’s dive in on Scotty because I want people uh to get your viewpoint on what we’re watching because what we’re watching the undeniably is greatness. Um and this year he he’s now won again. He wins on Sunday. In some ways I think winning at the Procore impresses me in ways that are similar to these other wins where you can say well that was that was a greater field. This was a good field for for reasons including all of his RDER Cup teammates. Um, let me just kind of jump off by asking you this. What do you think we’re watching from a historic standpoint? Is is he in the middle of something that could be among the best window of greatness that we’ve seen? Yes, I think he’s in that early prime where it’s going to be about a commitment to, you know, to possible greatness. And I think he’s shown that he’s making that commitment. Even the win in Napa, you know, there was nothing. There was no urgency to say, you know, Scotty, you should really be at the top of your game here. You know, it was like a warm-up for the Ryder Cup. That’s how a lot of people looked at it. And he goes and he wins it. And I think just cuz his level is so high, you know, he’s right at that point now. He’s 19 wins, four majors, you know, those 20 win u careers are are awesome. Yes. But the real greatness is the 30- win career. And here he is, you know, a young man still and doesn’t look like he has any reason to let up or having any existential kind of questions about is it worth it? We can talk about that later. I think that just consistency and and his sort of really professional aspect of every every tournament just being something that he’s just bringing his game just gives you the feeling that he’s got a great long-term future here. And those numbers could really pile up. And I just think Scotty has shown that he’s got it physically and he’s got it mentally and he’s got it in terms of his lifestyle and how, you know, he’s able to handle the pressures and the the position that he’s in. Seems very comfortable being number one now. I think he does as we as we rip through all of these results and and this final page um is very much you know I know a lot of people the invocation of Tiger I get it it’s more recent. I know that you think that there are a lot of similarities to Jack, not only stylistically, but also kind of makeup mindset, compartmentalizing, focus where his feet are when he’s there, leave it there, go home, try to have the balance with with family. It’s interesting that season we just saw six wins. Uh he lived in the top 25 that every result was a top 25. Uh 15 straight top eight finishes. 1972 when Jack won seven times. He he had 19 starts. He had 14 top. These are the types of things that he’s doing in addition to now winning for the sixth time since 1960. There only three other men who backed up a six- win season with at least six wins. That’s Arnold. That’s Jack. That’s Tiger. You know how I feel about the small table. and you pull up a chair to a small table and you look at the faces at that table and you go these are iconic figures in the game. Um he’s there. Let me get back to what you said about about you know speaking the way that he did at the open championship and people I don’t know if it was a a misinterpretation of what he’s saying when you heard what he said there about is this all there is. I don’t think that that was alarming for you. what was your view of what you thought he was trying to share? Yeah, you know, I think the words were actually what’s the point and it sounded like gosh, you know, I’m doing this, but uh it means nothing to me or it doesn’t mean that much to me. And I think it was, you know, more nuanced than that and certainly it does mean a lot to him. I think first of all, I think Scotty’s a guy who everything he’s done in his life, he’s done at a high level and he knows he has an incredible gift here and I think he will respect that gift and does respect that gift. I mean, his actions speak louder than words. And so, that’s something that there is a point to that, but it’s not the overall point to life. And I think that’s the issue that he was trying to get at. It’s like, yeah, I get a lot of fulfillment from golf. I love golf. I play it as hard as I can. And sometimes I wonder why I play it so hard. Why does it mean so much to me? What’s the point? Well, you know, the point is this is what we all have in our lives, something that we do well. Let’s make the most of that. But that’s not the ultimate fulfillment which is something that not every athlete great athlete gets to that point and has that perspective. So I think it’s actually a strength because he can put it aside as Jack was able to do in a way that I think prolonged his career gave him great longevity and when he did play he played with great enthusiasm and great focus. You know he never got burned out. He never got to the point where his life was getting messy away from the golf course and Scotty seems like he has that control as well. So, what I think what he was really saying was, I’m really going to try to make the most of what I have and really enjoy it and I love competition, but I can leave it I can leave it somewhere else when I have the other part of my life that actually is more fulfilling to me. And that doesn’t mean that I’m not giving everything, you know, that’s the difference. It’s not like he’s holding back and going, well, I don’t want to, you know, just use be a golfer only, you know. Well, he’s not. He I I want to be a good person, of course, but as as I’m playing golf, I’m so lucky to be this good and I’m going to make the most of it. The um you know how I feel about Michael Jordan and I was you know it’s it’s one of those things I I watched the first game he played in college. It was actually in this town at at a building that still exists. Uh a building that that Elvis Presley uh played in the old coliseum on Independence Boulevard. It was his first college start uh against the University of Kansas and I had a particular interest in focusing on him because he deprived a scholarship to somebody I grew up with. So there’s that that wrinkle to that. My point is I then committed to watching him because I I was interested in him and then I I started to notice that there was something insatiable about the way that he played and because WGN, which was a superstation when he’s drafted by the Bulls, I literally watched 75 live games at minimum every season. And then you add the playoffs when they started to become a perennial playoff team. So, it didn’t matter if it was Wednesday night against the Washington Wizards or a Sunday night in Vancouver when they actually had an NBA franchise there. He couldn’t help himself because in his insatiable appetite for the competition was what made him what he was on a nightly basis. That’s why I think things like the Procore and the Hero World Challenge are telling that he can’t be anything other than what he is when the lights go on. And that’s the appetite. It doesn’t mean that he he finds it fleeting that when it’s over Haimey like is this all there is that that that’s that’s just telling the truth. Yeah. That it’s finite in terms of the enjoyment of it. It doesn’t mean he won’t be as motivated the next time he shows up. Sheffller possesses something that I think Jordan did and Tiger did. An insatiable appetite for the competition alone. But the difference is is that I think Michael and Tiger really were satisfied by the kill and they bathed in it when when it was over. Yeah. You know what I mean? And I don’t mean that in a bad way. It’s just the way that I think that they were. It was predatorial. Sheffller’s not that way. It’s the arena that he that he satisfies himself, but he finds the balance when he gets in the car and he drives away. Is that fair? Sure. It’s it’s a it’s again a nuance point. I I I He is different than Tiger and Michael. Michael’s my favorite athlete ever. Uh Tiger, of course, probably played the highest level of golf and in many ways my favorite golfer as well. And I think they found their greatest moments in the arena. You know, they loved it so much. That’s what they lived for. And probably very difficult for Michael to step away and find something. Probably never will find something that’s as quite as meaningful. Uh, and that’s that’s normal human behavior. But if you can have both, you you can step away and go, “God, that was great.” Like Byron Nelson did. And like he told I once asked him, he goes, “I’m exactly happy with what I did.” Even though, you know, he didn’t have the numbers that would have made him the greatest golfer. He to some he played the highest level of golf ever. And he left it there and was good with it. And I think of Scotty that way a little bit. But, you know, Tiger and Tiger, you know, he’d win a major, he’d be practicing on Monday. Uh that that’s insatiable drive that Scotty may not have to that extent, but Jack didn’t have it either to that extent. He but he knew how to compartmentalize it. So when the bell rang, he was ready. And I think Scotty’s really great at being ready with the go the the the family life and the and the life away from the course actually enhancing his ability to be ready because he’s rested and he’s joyful and he’s he’s satisfied. He’s contented with his life and now I can go give everything to golf. Yeah. The gratitude of the other aspects of life allows him when he does this to be what he is which is particularly focused. The other thing I wanted you to touch on because one of the things when we were doing this little chat last night with some folks um talking about him finding his voice um and and you and I both agree that he’s become uh even more interesting and and he’s willing to give and he also takes positions on things if you’re paying attention to what he’s saying. I thought he did it at the PGA. Is it related to whether they should or should not have played lift clean and place? He said it at the Tour Championship when they start peppering in him with REDRER Cup questions and he said, “Look guys, that’s a month from now. If you want to ask me questions about this competition, I’m here for you. Otherwise, I’ll go practice.” He even even in a very subtle way kind of grades questions. He’ll hear a question, go, “That’s a good question.” It’s like, “Hey, all right. I asked a good question.” He’s sharing his thoughts on things. What he will not do is reflect on his own performance or project to what he might do. that space. He’s not going to those spaces, but as it relates to maybe issues, the future of the tour, who went to live, who didn’t, he’s willing to step in there and share. Well, again, I think it’s being comfortable with that number one position because you’re suddenly authoritative on everything. And I think he’s careful about that and not exploiting it. But I think he’s comfortable also with his own intelligence and his own perceptions of things. He is very bright. I think he’s bright enough to know when to stay away from questions that might erode that ability to prepare and be ready and be right in his head which is you know an art and number one is often you know corrosive to that you know players start feeling very self-conscious about everything I say is under the microscope now and I’m not really comfortable with my golf as much because I’m distracted and I think Scotty may have gone through a period of adjustment with that uh who knows but it didn’t show very much but you know he was sort of accused of being dull or boring and not, you know, interested in in uh, you know, expanding on questions. I think he was just being careful and now he knows, okay, this is my lane. This is something where I’m actually kind of a spokesman for the game for this moment. And I think he takes it seriously and I think he always he gives short but very, you know, I think astute answers. I think the live thing, you know, it I thought it was very u, you know, it had consequences for how others looked at it. You know, there’s this sort of debate, are you? You know, did if guys went to live, what does it mean? Well, for Scotty, it means disloyalty to a tradition of the PGA tour that hurt the PGA tour. Okay, you know that in his position, I think that gave some credibility to that point of view that it wasn’t just vindictive. It was actually these had con this had consequences and Scotty was articulating those consequences. It’s um at 29 years of age, four majors. You mentioned the 19, he joins Krenshaw Kite L’s. These are these are Hall of Fame uh members. Uh and and it’s not unreasonable whether it’s whether it’s in three years he’s got six. You know, Phil has six that you’re getting to a space where we haven’t seen people get to in quite some time. Um and and whether it’s whether it’s Watson and when the odometer major odometer ended for him uh at 8 or Palmer where it ended at 7 or or Player where it ended at 9 in 1978. We’re talking about 30 40 50 years removed from somebody who’s gotten there. But I think you believe that it’s achievable because of all the things you just shared. All right, we’re going to take a break here. When we continue, we turn our attention uh to the RDER Cup. The European Rder Cup team is already in Long Island. Uh, but we will talk to Jaime about what’s the biggest surprises between the last one contested and us being on the eve of this next one because a lot really has changed and the decision by Keegan Bradley. What are his biggest challenges? What is Rory’s role and what to do with Bryson? We turn our attention to all of that coming up here on a Wednesday edition. It is five clubs golf channel. Also, channel 92 on SiriusXM’s PGA Tour Radio. Back with you right after this. [Music] Back in. It is a Wednesday edition of Five Clubs Golf Channel, also channel 92. That is PGA Tour Radio on SiriusXM. This segment brought to you by Piners, the cradle of American Golf, 10 golf courses, the new clubhouse and restaurant at Piner. Number 10 is open. Station 21. Book a trip to the cradle of American golf. All right. Alongside Jaime Diaz for the full show. Plus, we got dogs. Uh to end the week. One note, and I’ll repeat it again before we’re done. Next Monday, we will originate live from 1 to 300 p.m. uh to start RDER Cup week. A 2-hour show. Got a lot of great guests lined up. Uh Jim Bones, Mai, Ian Palter, Brendan Young is going to join me in studio. Gabby Herszig will be with uh us as well. We will lead right into live from from Beth Page to begin RDER Cup week. Jaime, you’ll be up there. Um look, this thing is a monster and it’s uh we’re going to do a special show, you and I, that’ll be available on our YouTube channel uh to start RDER Cup week to get people really lthered up if they aren’t already lthered up, which I know that they are. So much changes in golf. And when you give an event a two-year break, my gosh, a lot can change. So, let me just start with that. When you look at the two teams leaving Rome, Yeah. and you look at where we sit today, what’s the biggest surprise between the culmination of 2023 in Rome and where we sit on the eve of the 2025 RDER Cup? What is it? Well, I think it’s the 25 season has gotten this pattern on the American side where you have sort of underperformances I think you know based on the context of their overall career uh by some real stalwarts. You know you talk about Xander obviously injured I understand but it’s been a down year. Uh Patrick Kantley hasn’t really performed to his level except at the tour championship so maybe he’s gathering a pace now but still it’s been a bit of a disappointing year. It has and and also Jaime like for the first time legitimately he contended in the waning moments of a major last year at Piners paired with Rory and and I’m thinking okay now now he’s been in the deep end of the pool and here comes 2025 and it didn’t fire now he showed form late enough to to I always thought he was probably going to be on the side but yeah that’s fair and you know he’s on the board and lives going on there’s a lot of stuff happening right now but still it was it was puzzling um you know Justin Thomas has been erratic. He’s had a great spring, had some brilliance, but hasn’t quite closed the way that you’d expect him to. And so, he’s not quite where he used to be. Y uh Kamora, you know, obviously putting issues, you know, fallen not not finishing in the top 10 very much anymore. Yeah. Won top 10 since March. You know, uh Kepka is not on the team and and nobody’s even missing him apparently because, you know, his level just been so low, frankly. And Jordan Speed’s not on the team. Yeah. uh you know so this is a it’s carved out kind of a soft spot potentially for the Americans that they’ll have to deal with if these guys all bring it somehow at the Ryder Cup which happens with certain people they just find their you know happy place under the pressure and do their best that could happen but if they’re just the same level it it’s I think a vulnerability for the Americans conversely the Europeans I think have shown tremendous improvement uh among their better from Rome on the European side as we head to bet Pat. Well, I I have several guy. I mean, I think Rory is fair, you know. I mean, he had a high level, but I mean, look what he did this year. I think Tommy Fleetwood is uh undeniably. Justin Rose is in my opinion. He is. Terrell Hatton. Uh, again, the thing about Hatton is that for whatever reason, because he had some top tens and majors like six years ago, people have created this weird fictional narrative that he contends in a lot, he doesn’t until he did this year at the US Open. Yeah. when he when he finished fourth. He also was good enough in the finite number of starts that he got where he actually was getting world rankings to be an automatic qualifier on on either a United States team or a European team of which we saw Bryson do it and we saw Hatton do it. Tier Hatton’s better. I I think that that’s absolutely fair. Now, let me counter that by saying is Oberg better than he was? No, I’d say he’s a question mark right now. He’s fallen for some reason there’s been a decline in his game. And how about Havland? Havlin the same. you know, uh, he’s he has his moment. Won a golf tournament. Won a golf tournament that he’s never in the right place. He’s got he’s he’s struggling with all the technical stuff, which I think in his case is genuine and authentic and that’s who he is and he’ll find it. But perhaps, you know who else is better, Haimey? Robert Mack. I was just going to mention him. He was my last guy on the list. Yeah. Much better. Much better. You know, I mean, really a guy that you you feel like that guy can compete. He likes Sundays. He can handle it. He he can one of one other guy on the American side is not on the team and even though he was not he was he was not a major champion but he was establishing himself as clearly among the elite and along with Kentlay was arguably either the best or the second best player that week and that was Max Homa and everyone went after Rome he’s baptized as a rookie on the road he plays admirably all the way to that final hole of his singles match and you’re going oh this guy Sure, you can count on him. He’s not there as well. So, in their absence in steps the likes of JJ Spawn and Ben Griffin and Russell Henley and Cam Young. I don’t have misgivings about rookies. I’ve talked about it. American rookies in the last quarter century have done exceptionally well. When you look at that quartet, that presents what I think you believe is one of Keegan’s biggest challenges. I think it’ll be the biggest challenge will be if if the veterans start to underperform at the RDER Cup. Will he have the ability to comfortably tell the veterans and the guys Yeah. to say I’m I’m we’re putting in the young guys, I’m sorry, you know, and cuz cuz Keegan isn’t coming from, you know, the eminence grease kind of position, you know, he’s a young guy himself and he’s never really been among the elite, you know. So, does he have that psychological stature to do Dodto guy? He He’s the captain and I’m sure they’ll honor that, but it’s still an awkward situation. And I think he’ll have to step up in terms of saying, you know, I’m in charge here and I’m going to do the best thing for the team and I’m sorry, uh, I respect everything you’ve done, but I’m going to make this decision. I think that would be a hard awkward, but, you know, he’s already done it and tell guys that he didn’t make the team. It’s part of being a captain is making those hard decisions, but I think it’ll be his biggest challenge. Yeah. When you look at the guys that he probably had the hard conversations with, he didn’t really have to have a hard conversation with an established veteran player. I mean, I and no disrespect to Maverick McNeely, but he didn’t have to have a conversation with with somebody like a Kepkco who might have been on the doorstep and and even though he’s on live, he’s still a five-time major champion. Back to the the to me this is the easy answer which makes it a good answer with respect to what’s the biggest surprise. The biggest surprise between 23 and 25 is who the United States captain is. Yes. Because the guy who was snubbed with the most stench and and that was Keegan. Yeah. Is the guy who all of a sudden comes out of this this weird like wait what did they say? He’s been named a vice captain. No, he’s the captain. And then he thrusts himself in the middle of it because he plays well and then he actually wins a golf tournament in in late June and you’re going, “Oh my god, he’s going to be on the team and then he doesn’t.” In the end, I know you think he made the right decision to pass on himself. Why? Well, it was a close call and it was very, you know, alluring for everybody, not just him, you know, if he had played, if he had chosen himself to play because I think it would have just brought extra drama to the Ryder Cup and it could have positioned him to be an all-time hero for sure. And I don’t mean in a selfish way. I just think it would have inspired the rest of the team. If it all went well, it would have been like Keegan did something that actually made us better because he picked himself. But were were they to lose and especially if Keegan were to play poorly Mhm. I mean that would have been as high as that would have been it would have been lower in terms of you know the actual disappointment and the recriminations that he would have he would have received as a result. You were selfish. You know you you put yourself in front of the team. Um you put too much pressure on yourself. You put yourself in an untenable position. Bad judgment. All kinds of things. And you know an American loss at home devastating historically. So, you know, for sure, you know, really it was a high risk, high reward. Uh, and the risk was too high, I think. So, he took the lower risk and the reward will still be great if the Americans win. So, if they don’t win, we always immediately put the bullseye on the captain and and he takes all the harpoons. Do you think because of people’s affection for him and and him being Captain Keegan and also making the choice to pass on himself and and making this kind of selfless act like I’m focusing on my team. I’m going to fill this role that he’s been I think he’s been delivered a level of grace. Does that grace dissolve if they lose? No matter what the circumstances are get any pass at all because people love him right now. Well, he goes in with an advantage of he does, you know, of Does he lose the advantage all you got good will? What depends how it goes. If it’s really hardly high highly fought and close and the European play great and and they’re somehow they’re the Americans are fairly beaten, so to speak, because we’re looking on paper and you could argue that the Europeans have a little bit better team and maybe the best team win one, even though the the home team is there and always has the advantage, um I think he would still get some grace and it wouldn’t be his fault. But if they get if they lose and and there’s some questionable decisions about the pairings or you know the order of play or or maybe some of his comments, whatever, he’s under the gun. Yes, he’s the most exposed guy if they lose no matter what. Yeah, it’s it’s the position that that he has chosen. Um there’s no doubt about that. One last thing about challenges for him. I don’t know if Bryson’s a challenge. I think by his mere persona it is a challenge to to identify somebody who can be in that space with him. His histrionics he’s demonstrative. He he craves the attention. He likes it. He bathes in it. Who among that group do you think makes sense? It could be the equipment. It could be the personality. Does somebody immediately present himself and you go, “He seems like he’d be the reasonable guy to be the first guy to get the shot with Bryson.” Who would it be? Well, we talked about Cam Young. Yeah. You know, an introvert. Uh someone who is comfortable maybe staying, you know, in in in the background a little bit, letting letting Bryson have the stage. I don’t think it’s that huge a deal if Bryson plays well. You know, Patrick Reid was considered probably a disruptive force and he’s played great in the Ryder Cup and all is forgiven when you play that well. Yes. And there’s a lot of respect for how good Patrick Reed was and I think there’s a lot of respect going in for how good Pat Bryson Dshambo is. Uh it depends. He loves the stage. He loves the stage. It depends how he acts. You know, if there’s moments where, you know, he looks like he’s blaming his opponent his his partner or something and he looks disruptive, it’s going to fall on Bryson, right? But I I don’t know. Oh, I I think he’s handled his his public moments these last couple of years, especially at Pineers very well. He’s got a an amazingly uh improved image with the public. Yeah. I mean, when you win though, it’s easy to be Well, sure. Sure. And I do the YouTube and there’s now I would counter that by saying I didn’t think his form after the Masters, you know, lamenting the fact that Rory didn’t talk to the final round. That’s telling to me. It is. I give him a pass. He’s asked about everything and uh you know I think he was being sensitive about the live thing really. It’s like you know this is the way it is right now between us. You know there’s tension and he didn’t quite say it but I think that was a manifestation of that probably. Yeah I I think Cam Young makes sense the golf ball if they if they force him. Let me So do you play him Friday morning? Do you let him hit the first T- shot? This is a TV show in the end. Yeah. Is is the first hole you know Beth Paige better than I do. Is that a hole? You can vomit hoisted over those trees. Is it like six? Is it like six at the collar? Well, you know, that that would be an amazing charge for the fans. I mean, look how we talk about, you know, what he did at Bay Hill. We still talk about it, of course. So, why not? Yeah. You know, he’s not probably built for forsomes like he is for for fourball, but uh he’s a great player. I won the US Open. I I say put him out there. Put him out there. All right. When we come back, we’ll talk about Rory’s role uh and the European side because they’re doing something that has never been done before. We’ll get into that as we continue here on this Wednesday edition. Five Clubs Golf Channel, PJ Tour Radio, SiriusXM’s channel 92. Back with the great Jaime Diaz from Golf Golf Digest and Golf Channel and a contributor here at Five Clubs right after this. [Music] back in this Wednesday edition of Five Clubs on Golf Channel and also channel 92 SiriusXM’s PJ Tour radio. This segment is brought to you by Peter Malar. Uh the ODON, the new shoe, I’ve got it on right now. Not to mention all of the fall items. And if you’re going to be on campus for a college football game, no matter what school you went to or support, they’ve got you covered. Go to their collegiate line at petermalar.com. Game day. Uh they’ve got items for every school at every level because they provide more than any apparel company does worldwide. All right, Jaime Diaz alongside me. We continue our discussion on the rider cup. Again, a reminder, next Monday, our show, I’ll do the show on the radio side at 8:00 a.m. Eastern time, and then we return on the TV side on Golf Channel 1 to 3:00 p.m. A lot of guests are going to be joining me, looking forward to it. Haime, you’re going to be up there all week. Rory’s first writer Cup was 2010. And in in the leadup to it, he said what others had said before him who had not had the experience that it’s an exhibition, he he got indoctrinated and immediately said, “I was wrong.” And in the time that he’s grown up before our eyes as as a great player, you were saying last night to me, you know, he was the kid, but now he’s the icon and he’s 36 years old. This is his eighth team. He’s had a myriad of partners. He was tethered to Graham McDall early on 2010 2012. Then he kind of broke away. a lot of Ian Poulter in in in Rory’s RDER Cup, including famously that Saturday afternoon at Madina when he was riding in the side car and and just shaking his head as Pter continuing to make putt after putt after putt. What’s his role? What’s his role other than being great? What What is his role now? I think for the first time, he’s legitimately really a leader. Okay. Um and and just he’s earned that position. It’s not really He’s always been vocal. Uh but he’s always been a supportive vocal. Now I think he’s a an initiator of this is what we are doing here and this is important and this is part of being great. He said you know maybe one of the greatest achievements in golf now is to win an away writer cup. So he’s given it sort of historical you agree that it is well I think it’s become so yes you know the writer cup is so prominent and uh that is the one aberration that hasn’t really been you know kind of uh settled as far as you know but I think you know the last six have it’s the pattern’s already there the home team the the the the decade of blowouts that we’re living in right now um we haven’t seen this before oddly golf now is in possession of one of the great home field advantages in sports. Um, and it’s evidenced by these results. These teams from from one event to the next. And yes, it’s two years that we have the gap, but we’ve had blowouts starting in 2014 at Glenn Eagles to Hazeline to Paris to Whistling Straits to Rome. And here we sit as we look at these results. The teams that have won, not only have they blown out the other side, they’ve jumped them early. Yeah, they’ve jumped him early at home. They’ve had advantages after day one and they’ve done the full remember the Titans, run it up, Herman, leave no doubt. That’s what we’ve been witnessing here. My feeling is that’s not going to happen. Do you share that? That we’re not probably going to see a blowout. I don’t know. I know. Like you said, it’s so much momentum and that first day is so important. I think the course setup is super important, it turns out, for for the way that the home team has has uh performed and also this this this uniquely intense crowd we’re going to have in New in New York, maybe the greatest sports fans as far as just being viferous as as you ever see. And so it’ll be the loudest, most rockous Ryder Cup perhaps. And that certainly should help the Americans and hurt the Europeans. So could be a blowout. I don’t particularly think it’s always about, you know, who’s better and who’s worse going in. It’s about that week, just like golf is at every tournament. It’s capriccious. I mean, we’re watching, we’re watching Scotty with this incredible consistency. It’s the aberration. I mean, golf is week to week and it’s only three days and it’s only 12 guys and you know there I think there’s variation in that or possibility for variation like if you had five of them uh it wouldn’t be if they were all on home soil it wouldn’t always be the home team. Yeah, but in this small sample size, that’s what it looks like right now. But but to Rory’s credit, to your point about how it can be fleeting and and very fickle that in the last 10 years, if you look at who has resided inside the top 10, let alone the five the top five, it’s him. Um this is this is a historically great player, obviously punctuated by now being one of the six men who’s completed the career grand slam. The other part, haimey, is is that Scotty Sheffller’s the best player, but Rory did win the Masters and complete the career grand slam. He did go home in an intensely personal and emotional way to Ireland and he won the Irish Open and he won the players. If he does something, because he’s the one who laid down the marker in Rome and said to what you just said, it’s one of the hardest things to do and we’re going to do it. If he adds that as the cherry on top of this year, I don’t know how he could possibly have a more satisfying year in his life, could he professionally? Wow. He hit he I mean, he he, you know, he he, you know, punched so many holes. Wait, I’m forgetting the cliche, but the point is, yeah, I mean, he he’s done so many things that we were waiting and hoping he would do. Once he won that grand slam to me, it was so satisfying on so many levels. It just leaped him up in in stature in his in history and I think in terms of the the respect that he has from other players, too. I mean, he’s been through the mill. I think he was looked at as the gifted player who had his weeks early in his career and it was a little too easy in a way. When he had clean air, he could run away. Yes. uh you know, not to ever denigrate any of those victories, but in terms of the grit that was required, it wasn’t really demonstrated. Didn’t have to be demonstrated. When it did have to be demonstrated, sometimes he seemed wanting in that regard. Then he goes and, you know, terrible hard heartbreaking losses at St. Andrews and and Pinehurst. Now he’s earned his spurs in my opinion. You know, he’s been through it. To come back from that, that showed grit. What he did to the Masters was like a microcosm. It was like a of his whole career, you I mean, up and down and you tragedy and and triumph and, you know, great recovery and and and in the end, resilience and toughness. And so now he’s an elder statesman with with some, you know, real uh, you know, real capacity for authority and and he’s embraced what it means to be a caretaker of of this on the European side. Justin Rose has spoken eloquently about it. We are merely a caretaker. We are a reflection not only of of the people right here around us but we have a responsibility of those who came before us but also to continue the path of greatness and achievement of the ones who will follow us. Our timers is temporary. Rory has a chance if they win this to add his name to players like Faldo and Sevy who won multiple Road Rider Cups. Very few did as the faces of those teams. And the other thing about Europe is this. If you counter the fact that the United States has won one Road Rider Cup since 1981. Yeah. And that was in 1993. Meanwhile, Europe, why I think they’re one of the great teams in sports. They’ve won in every decade since the 80s, 87, 95, 2004, 2012. If they now do it in another decime, they would have won five different decades, five consecutive decades on the road while the United States is in a 34-year drought when they go back to Ireland in 2027. So, the players who were part of those teams, Rory being a central figure, that it adds a special part of his lore, does it not? Absolutely. And it picks up really what’s been most unique and what most powerful about the European team and that is their closeness and the way that they have absorbed the the RDER Cup’s importance into their DNA. And that goes back to the 80s when when they were playing for their survival basically on the European tour. They needed to win that RDER Cup to a degree. They still are as far as to financially. Yeah. But I mean they were really, you know, rag tagged compared to the and and they felt it. And then Jacqueline came in and he tried to raise, you know, that level of self-respect and, you know, and and give them some of the luxuries that the Americans had so they felt like they were in the ball game. And suddenly you have Seviest, an incredible leader. He kind of breaks the dam and says, “Look, I’m as good as these guys and you can be as good as these guys.” And he’s followed by Faldo and Langanger and Wooie and Lyall and Lataba. And those six guys, amazing players all in the Hall of Fame. You know, they were underrated in the 80s. We’ve learned that those were great teams. And I think Rory to some extent respecting that legacy and and trying to bring it back. He’s not consciously, I don’t think, but it’s just there with Europe. You know, it’s there. The culture has been going on even though they have a lot more money. And they still kind of travel together. They still eat dinner together more often. They’re just closer, you know, and that doesn’t mean everybody’s selfish on the American team. I think some of it just, you know, geography. they’re they’re they’re out there in on the European tour and they they live closer to each other and it’s easy to drive to events and it just you know not as much separation just uh you know physically. The other part is is we got to run to a break here is Luke Donald because very rarely does the substitute teacher become a noble laureate like in in a short amount of time which which he was a sub. We don’t narrow where he was in the grand hierarchy of all those guys who are presumptive captains that went to live from Westwood and Garcia and McDall. You know, yes, Luke has a a writer Cup resume, but he subs in for Stenson. They win. He does it in this masterful fashion. He takes it upon himself to do something only Jacquine has done to win backto back, which he’s on the cusp of possibly doing. He also is such an interesting It reminded me of his his game. I know we got to go to break, but you know, I mean, his game was so artful and so complete, except for not being straight with the driver. He just got so much out of it, and I felt like he maximized his Rder Cup captaincy as well, you know. All right. Well, we will continue here. We will not uh deprive you and us of our favorite segment. And it’s also one of because he has a glorious dog himself down in the greater Pinehurst area. Dogs of the week and some final thoughts on this Wednesday edition of Five Clubs right after this. [Music] We love to end the week with the dogs in this segment brought to you by Golf Pride. When it comes to having more options and when you look at the grips from the best players in the world down to the players that you play with, more people trust Golf Pride than any other grip option that you have all around the world uh through the bag, including that reverse taper putter grip series. All right, dogs of the week. We want you to send your dog. If your dog has got a relationship with the game of golf, chasing balls in your backyard, running down fairways, whatever it may be, please send us the photos or the videos. dogs at fiveclubsgolf.com. So, let’s get to our dogs of the week on this Wednesday. And we start with two dogs. I actually met these dogs last week at Liberty National. That is Libby on the left. That is Finnegan on the right. Libbyy’s 11. Finnegan is one. Uh Greg James, the superintendent Liberty National. Those are his dogs. That Deuce on the left, Sierra on the right. Keith Masters, a former PGA professional, is their owner. Picture there at Desert Hills Golf Club in Green Valley, Arizona. That is Sandy owned by Dan Norman, a 2 and a halfyear-old Lab Pit Mix. That’s Columbia, South Carolina at Oak Hills Country Club. That is the dog of Kenzie Cartwright. Pickles. And that is Pickles, a three-year-old Bernese Mountain dog at the Valley Neil Golf Club in Holio, Colorado. A great Tom Do course. And then finally, Travis Cook’s dog. That is Copper. Copper is a 5-year-old training walker hound. Get after those balls running around that pool complex. That is a great looking hound right there. Those are your dogs of the week. Now, Haimey, we have to get Zuzu named after the the very famous character in It’s a Wonderful Life. We’ve got to get Zuzu featured in Dogs of the Week, do we not? Highlight on my wife’s life. It would be. We will get that done for sure. All right, let me get couple other quick thoughts about the RDER Cup. You’ll be out. You’ll be there all week contributing on live from uh all week long on Golf Channel. Starting on Monday, Sheffller, who seems to make the most sense. Uh let’s just start. He’s playing Friday morning in Forsoms. Who do you think the likely partner is for Sheff? I think for forsomes, Russell Henley would be a really good pick. I just think gritwise and you know they’re both big basketball players. I think they played together in the President’s Cup last year. There you go. You know, and then and in four ball I see Sam Burns because they are close and and Sam is a great putter. Makes a lot of birdies. You know, his his missteps would be forgiven more in a four-ball situation. the the the five session player is I don’t want to say it’s entirely a thing of the past, but we’re seeing even the best that the the clear top guy getting a session off because you want to believe they they have some fuel in the tank for Sunday singles with the 12 points. There’s no doubt that if anyone’s going to play five sessions for the United States, it’s him. It’s not even close, right? I would imagine. Yes. Makes sense. and and he is so consistent that even when he’s not on, he still gets something out of it. Yeah. Okay. Uh the rookies, there are four United States rookies. Uh what does your gut tell you about who you think is going to respond well to this environment? Well, I look at as Henley again has just he’s just got so much in the bag already experience-wise. uh whether it’s not Ryder Cup necessarily, but he’s been through the mill a few times and he he can handle it and uh he’s just that type of player who’s got control of the ball and that’s good under pressure. You know, he’s not going to hit it out of play and stuff and, you know, he’s a good solid putter and and I think he likes the I think he likes the Heat. Uh but, you know, Cam Young, power player, Beth Paige, he’s he knows it well. The New York crowd, that helps a lot. I’m a big JJ Spawn fan and I think he’s very interesting. I mean, he’s the US Open champion. And you were saying, you know, like last year, I mean, almost almost off the tour almost almost true relegation. Yes. So inspired, I think, feeling like, God, this is such a great moment. I got nothing to lose. Let it ride. And that’s what he did at Oak at Oak Hill, excuse me, Oakmont. Yeah. And and it was it was wonderful to watch. He’s got a lot of game, you know, great iron player. I mean, you love that in in in both in both uh formats. Sure. You know, so he’s got some strengths. He does. And I I would say this about Ben Griffin. Who knows who the last call was or nay, but but he’s had the best year. He’s had a wonderful year and and he I I think his personality is is inclined to respond well to something that it can be disorienting, which is just unwavering noise and distraction. I thought he handled Napa beautifully. Free play was painful and he’s classy and he’s moving on. Okay, couple of reminders for everybody. Jaime and I are going to have a special show. We’re going to give you a historical perspective, really set up what this RDER Cup has become. We’ll also talk about the week ahead. That’ll be available on our YouTube channel. And one final reminder, on Monday, we will be live from 1 to 3 on Golf Channel, a two-hour show. Gabby Herszig will be with us, Ian Poulter, Jim’s Bone, Bones, Mai, Brendan De Young. So, we got a very robust show for you leading right in to live from uh Beth Paige and the RDER Cup for Haimey Diaz. I’m Gary Williams. Have a wonderful Wednesday and the rest of your week. We’ll see you Monday at 1 p.m. on Golf Channel.
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Great show!