Bucket List Dreams: NJ Public Courses We Still Need to Play

What’s one public course in New Jersey we haven’t played – but absolutely need to? Inspired by our Instagram poll, Mike and Ryan reveal their Garden State golf bucket lists, from legendary layouts to hidden gems still waiting for a tee time. Then we tee up a question every golfer’s asked: What does it really take to be a “good” golfer? Is it breaking 90? Shooting in the 70s? Or just keeping the ball in play? This is the episode every weekend warrior can relate to.

Then we take it global – Ryder Cup rosters are officially locked, and yep, we called it. We break down Team Europe’s final picks, DraftKings betting odds, and how Team USA stacks up. Plus, the PGA Tour Fall Series kicks off with the Procure Championship, and we’re keeping a close eye on Ryan McCormick & James Nicholas as the Korn Ferry Playoffs heat up at the Simmons Bank Open. Full 2026 Tour status is on the line.

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0:00 Introduction
5:36 Fast Facts
12:23 Ryder Cup Betting Line
19:44 Public Course to play!
27:34 Private Course outside the top to play
31:15 What is a good golfer?
38:07 Germany Golf Test?

You guys just like keep coming around. I just keep hearing about you guys. And I might need to tell Ryan to cut that up a little bit and just put it in my audio for my phone. First of all, I love the game. I had a passion to play the game, not only football, but I I love the game of golf and and and what it lends to a person and the friendships you develop on the golf course. It’s been a pleasure being on the drop. I wish you guys all the best down the road. Someone like you, you have that golf itch like a lot of us do. I keep track of you and you are moving. You are on the move. So, listen. I’m a big New Jersey golf guy. You’re very kind, Mike. And you, too, Ryan. It’s a pleasure to be among just a couple of Jersey boys here talking about something we love. All the best. I really enjoyed it. This is the Drop Podcast where we talk golfing in the Garden of State. I’m Mike Porro and this is Ryan Coul. What’s up, Drop Pod people? Welcome back. It is episode 153. You got Mike and I here. Uh, let’s run through the schedule real quick. Mike, yesterday, September 8th, uh we’re still going down to your Myrtle Beach trip. You were down at True Blue. You played the 13th hole. It’s a par4. Uh I absolutely love that hole. What a great little stretch there. 10, 11, 12, 13. Is is just uh man, True Blue is awesome. It really is. Uh so you were down there. You played uh you played there. That was our Mike’s verse yesterday. If you didn’t go see it, go check it out. It’s over on Instagram. Go over to YouTube. Go give it a watch. Today is September 9th, episode 153. You got us here. If you’re listening to us, uh, you know, make sure you go over Apple Apple podcast or Spotify or wherever you’re listening. Make sure you subscribe, like us, give us a fivestar rating. All that stuff does huge for us. If you’re watching on YouTube, microwave to the camera. Hello to everybody. Uh, again, subscribe to the YouTube channel, give it a watch, give it a like. All those things, uh, those go a long way for us. Tomorrow, Wednesday, I’m starting out my Ireland trip. We’re going to start rolling these out. Uh, I take on K Golf Links. It’s the Hackit 18. I play the 18th hole. It’s a par4, 350 yards going into the clubhouse. And I said it when we talked about K, like it is just a beautiful, stunning um, vista of of land there. And this is going back into the clubhouse. And and if you have the clubhouse, they have it set up right where you have holes going out and into the clubhouse. So you have a whole bunch of of action going on right there. Um it’s a it’s a super windy Irish day that you have there. So you get to see that on uh on camera there. But that’s coming out Wednesday. Thursday, we have Dean Grazerman, our final iteration of the Grazerman Boys. Uh we have Dean on. He’s the 2025 Metam champion. Um I don’t think he finished runner up, but he he was going wild for a little while at the state open. Uh he had just an amazing summer. Uh it was great to have Dean on finally catch up with him and and really uh you know get the get the last of the Gazman boys really. So Mike, I I think we need to talk to the scheduler. We need to get all three of those guys on uh at one time. I think that’s I think that’s our next goal here. Friday this week. What do you think? No, you don’t like that idea. Well, yeah. Listen, I’ll put that on the back burner, but the trilogy is complete, I guess, now. Friday, uh, three and 30 with Mike, the the closing holes there. Mike, another great stretch. 16, 17, 18 there. Um, really, really good at uh at True Blue there. Uh, and then and then Sunday this week is my front nine at Galloping Hill. um that’ll come out you you see that we were up there a couple weeks ago, put together a video. Um Chris has just been an unbelievable uh supporter of what we do and and when we went up there a couple weeks ago, it was it was great to get up and play and see the course and and it was just yeah, unbelievable. So, we got Galloping Hill coming out Sunday premiering. So, YouTube long form video nine. I mean, listen, you played really well. I’m not going to give out the clues in terms of what you actually shot, but the highs, the lows, everything in between. And hey, a little little little nugget here is you played much much much better. Today’s episode is brought to you by All County Exteriors, your go-to for roofing, siding, windows, doors, and all things exterior home remodeling. As a third generation family-owned company with over 40 years of experience, All County has earned the reputation for top quality craftsmanship and service. Far outlasting the industry standard. Whether it’s a small repair or a full home upgrade, they serve both homeowners and builders across New Jersey. They’re deeply rooted in the community, proudly supporting Makea-Wish, St. Jude’s Rooster Troops, and parents of autistic children. Thinking about a project? Now’s the time. Get an instant 20% off for a limited time. Call 732-370-22780 or email them [email protected] to schedule your free no obligation consultation. That’s 732-370-2780. Allount Exteriors, quality you can trust. All right, let me hit you with the fast facts here is we’re kind of gearing. Are we going to be longer than last week? Yeah, we got a couple things because we got the PJ tours back in action. The fall season is here. Um, which, you know, I I kind of wanted to educate a little little a little bit about what it entails, right? Because the FJ tour has changed how you keep a card for next year. The nice thing really for us is we’ve been following three guys. Max Grazerman, he’s a lock. Chris Gotup, he’s a lock. And John Pack. Those those have been the three guys. We really haven’t connected much with John. I can’t lie. A couple DMs here and there, but not to the point where he’s been a guest like the other two. And with this fall season, you got to finish in the top 100 on the FedEx Cup, okay, in the points to secure your card for next year to guarantee the card. Obviously, the other two have done it. John is sitting at 171. So, I can’t lie, the he’s on the extreme outskirts of things. Um, unless he goes crazy in this fall se um and the nice thing about the start of the fall season is I don’t know if you saw, but 10 of the 12 RDER Cup players for the American team are playing. The only two not playing is Bryson because obviously he’s at live and Xander Schoffley because he’s kind of still dealing with a little bit of a banged up injury. But 10 of the 12 guys are in. And if you recall back in Rome two years ago in the RDER Cup, nobody played for five weeks. And that was a huge topic of discussion going into the RDER Cup even not even the aftermath of like that’s got to be a big reason why, but it was a it was definitely a topic. Yeah. Yeah. So, they’re out in Napa at the Pro Curist Championship. Not a bad place to be playing golf a little bit there for for the guys that have their spots secured or even the RDER Cup guys. Um, and it’s pretty much a loaded field for a fall season event um with those guys all out there. Um, best of luck to Max. You know, I’d love to see him get a win in one of these these six or seven events going out there. I’d like to see Jon make a move, but that starts on Thursday. Even having John like you would think John has to win one of these events to really make any kind of like being 70 whatever out of the out of it is is a lot. So even winning one’s not going to not going to guarantee them. Well, winning one does because you’ll get a two-year exemption on tour. Oh, yeah. I meant the points. Yes. Yes. Winning gets you a two-year exemption. But as far as the points go, like I don’t know if the points part would make up the difference, but yeah. Yeah. Best of luck to to to him in in that kind of venture and and yeah, Max and and Chris made a big run, big push. It’s good for them. Good that they were able to get in there. And now the Cornferry Tour playoffs begin. You know, a little four tournament playoff for them and and similar to what the PGA Tour does is they kind of do the same little thing where, you know, you get in then they make a little bit of a cut on the point system. So, let me kind of educate the audience here. So they start with what is right now the top 156 players have qualified for the first tournament. Yes, Ryan and James are both within that 156 and then they cut the the points list from 156 to 144 for the third event, 120 for the for the excuse me the second event, 120 for the third event and then the finals is the top 75 players. Now to educate the audience again. That’s a big jump. Big jump. Those are you don’t have a big 56 to 44. Not a big jump. 44 to what’ you say? 20. 120. 120. A little bit bigger. But still not still not anything. And then to go to 75 is a huge jump. And the huge jump is this because if you get and finish inside the 7 top 75, you guarantee your corn ferry status for next year. You get a full card for next year. So when you look at our two guys that we’ve been following this whole year, you know, we’ve been following James, we’ve been following Ryan, you know, the highs and lows, everything in between, neither one are inside the top 75. So they are inside the 156, they’re inside the 144, they’re inside the 120. So they’re going to guarantee themselves the first three of this leg. But in order to get to the finals, they got to make a little bit of a move. And it starts this week. James is sitting at 77. You got to think he climbs inside that 75 number. Gotta think it. And then Ryan’s sitting at 85. You got to think that he can get inside that 75 spot. And if they actually go crazy in these four events and potentially win one, finish very well in some others, you got to finish in the top 20 to secure the PGA Tour card for next season. That might be a little bit of a stretch, but hey, miracles do happen. So, they they certainly do. Uh it is nice to have, you know, those guys at least uh play it in contention there. You know, even though Ryan is is five spots out, you got to think he can play his way in like 10 spots. 10 spots. 85. 85. Yeah. Oh, just bad math on my part. Yeah. Sorry, misspoke. that that’s just one of his like that’s not that’s not undoable, right? The the difference between if I’m looking at this right, James is 77, he’s got 297 points. Uh and Ryan has 256 points. So, you know, basically 40 points behind. That’s not you’re not talking about an insurmountable uh amount of points to make up. Do you got to make some moves? Absolutely. Is it good to do it early and and kind of get DL on the right foot? 100%. But not undoable for for them. And you know, the these guys are, you know, Ryan’s been on the Cornferry tour. He’s been bouncing around for a long time. Uh James is is new to it, but you know, Ryan’s been through this process. He knows that, you know, the emotions. He knows what it takes. Um hopefully he can harness that and and make a move and and again do some big things for himself. That’s it. Big weeks here on the PJ tour and the corn ferry tour. And that wraps up this week’s fast facts. Mike, before we move from the cornfairy tour, I do want to point out there someone who we’ve mentioned more than a handful of times on the show here is Neil Shipley is third on the cornfairy tour in points. Already secured his card for next year. Already secured. He’s gonna play on the PGA Tour next year. So, I did want to uh while I had it up and while I was staring at it, I wanted to uh just point it out there. Mike, last week we talked about the the RDER Cup. Keegan had made his picks and then after we came, you know, after our episode came out, we had the Rider the European team finalized theirs. Uh you and I played the role of Nostradamus and called the European team exactly as it as it was. again after a little snafu that I I forgot about John Rom for a second, but he uh you know, we had the team. Let’s talk about the let’s talk about the RDER Cup a little bit here and and more importantly, I guess, what what’s come out because we got a few weeks. We’ll we’ll have like a a show where we do our RDER Cup picks and thoughts and all that kind of stuff. But the betting odds came out this week once the teams get picked, then they have who, you know, who’s going to win and and that sort of thing. We both said last week that the European team has more quote unquote dudes on it, more household name guys, more names that come with the Thunder than the US team does. And they came out as a pretty heavy underdog right out the gate. I think they started off at plus 150 to win the RDER Cup whereas the US team was minus basically 150 whatever it was 135 or something like that. So how can that possibly be when you and I talked about team Europe having more quote unquote guys on it? Yeah. I mean, I pulled up the odds right now in DraftKings and it has United States minus 145 and it has the Europeans plus 150. I’m blown away that they think it’s that much of a kind of, you know, a big-time favorite for the United States knowing that like I think the roster on the European squad is a little better in terms of named guys. And to think it’s not just a straightup pick them blows me away. But I think it’s got to have to do with the home course advantage. I think the idea that it is on American soil, nobody’s won it on the other team’s soil in quite some time. I think that’s got to be the only only reason because when you look at the names on one side compared to the other, I don’t think it’s comparable. I don’t I think European smashes the hell out of them. Um, and I couldn’t believe it when I saw that and I was like, man, why am what am I missing that I wouldn’t just be smashing the Europeans team at plus money. Yeah. Yeah. You don’t want to support the European team because we’re, you know, we’re both Americans. But yeah, it’s I was shocked that it was that much. Even if they had put the US in favor because it’s on American soil, like minus 110 plus 110, you could understand. But to to get into the 145 and 150 is is a huge huge difference. And and we talked about it last week, right? Like like Scotty and Rory cancel each other out. Uh Bryson and Rom can cancel each other out, but then you have the rest of the guys like like we said, JJ Spawn, if he doesn’t win the the US Open, I I don’t I don’t necessarily know if he’s getting a captain’s pick, right? So, not a name guy and that’s just that’s just one of them. I don’t know. It it seems like a huge huge difference or you know the people that make those odds must seem to think that the home course advantage is so great. You know, I I don’t know. I mean, they’re probably going to stretch Beth Paige out to 7700 yards at on at least one of the days. and you know, maybe we hit the ball farther on average or longer irons or more, you know, whatever analytics they do to come up with these numbers, but it’s uh it’s a it’s a pretty big discrepancy and and um you know, for something that you and I both thought that the team Europe had a had a stronger team as far as the names on it. Again, not that we’re rooting for it, not that we’re picking it or whatever, just just got just by name recognition. Yeah, listen, I think, you know, you it’s hard to doubt Vegas, you know, and obviously NFL just went off this past Sunday and people were making bets left and right. So, like Vegas clearly knows something that the average public just doesn’t, right? That’s that’s just always been the case, right? And you kind of think that maybe this is the same thing. I just think before we even get going and I look at names on a piece of paper, I don’t know where where that comes to fruition. I don’t. But nonetheless, I thought it was something that we needed to chat about because I just thought that was absolutely ridiculous. And yes, to your earlier point, we were spot on on Luke Donald’s picks and no, we did not have any inside information on that. I I do uh Mike, obviously the people are probably wondering, you know, what our thoughts are on the RDER Cup itself. the the week before the RDER Cup comes out, you and I will have an episode out about about the RDER Cup specifically where we’ll talk, you know, all things RDER Cup, break it down to a fine powder, give our picks, that sort of thing. So, and to I know you like this. I can only pick I know one of two teams. There’s not an A, B, or C for me. So I I’m I’m dead curious to cure you know what I think you’re going to do is you’re just going to say we tie so both teams win and you win plus 1100 because if they tie it’s plus 1100 by the way I will say I don’t I I uh to me a tie is still a victory for Europe because they get to keep the trophy. So yes I know the numbers are tied but there’s still a victor there. Gotcha. if the tie had to like give the trophy back to the, you know, it had to sit in a case in New York City or or wherever the RNA is located, something like that, different story. But yeah, I think there’s you’re you’re if it’s a tie for the US, you’re the you’re the loser because the V Europeans keep the victory. Are you looking for the perfect place to tea it up this season? Or just looking for a great spot for casual comfort food or the most picturesque backdrop for the wedding of your dreams? Then you need to visit Galloping Hill Golf Course in Kennallorth, New Jersey. Galloping Hill has 18 holes of championship level GOP open all year round. They also offer a top 50 in the country learning center that also includes the swing suite at Galloping Hill for those bad weather days during the season. In addition to a 9-hole course that is ranked in the top 10 of short courses in the entire country. Galloping Hill is more than just golf. The Hill Tavern Bar and Grill is a gastro pub with seasonal food and beer options updated regularly with amazing views of the course. Hosting over 150 golf outings and over 400 social events per year, their catering team wins awards each year from the knot and wedding wire. Schedule a tour for your special event at the clubhouse at gallopinghill.com. To top it all off, Galloping Hill will be hosting the New Jersey Men’s Public Links Championship for the record 12th time. It’s all happening this year at Galloping Hill. All right. So, we need to we need to transition to this because last week we put out a poll on Instagram which you know it was something that we were kind of thinking about because it is the fall season and fall golf at least last year was one again I hate stealing words from Dan Hicks but one for the ages. Okay, it was unbelievable. We probably had the best fall we’ve ever had. And I started just you know we’re going back and forth about like what are some spots we haven’t been to that we have been haven’t been. Let’s let’s put it out to the public. Let’s put it out to our followers and see, you know, they follow. They see where we’re at. You know, where it’s a spot that’s a hidden gem that we don’t talk about that we need to start talking about. So, I decided to put it out there. And some of the answers were very interesting. But then it made me think I didn’t see a response from Ryan Kulot on there. So, I said, I’m going to bring this question to the podcast because since you decided to just view it and not respond to it, I’m going to ask you. So, you have to respond to it since you did not respond to it. So, here’s the question I have for you, big fella. What’s the one public golf course we haven’t played in New Jersey that you want to play? All right, I got 10 for you. Okay. And then in those there’s sub ones. No, my god, I I was thinking about it and I have I I legitimately have two that I that I I want to play and we have talked about both of these on the show, but Architects is one that we’ve talked about. I like the the concept of it that each hole is designed in the way that a a famous golden age golf course architect would have designed a hole. Um, and full disclosure, I have played architects. It’s 15 plus years ago. So, I’m I’m saying architects if you’ll allow it. If not, my other one is Blue Heron Pines. Never been down to Blue Heron Pines. Um it’s part of the Jorski family if I’m not, you know, the umbrella of his uh of his courses. It’s it’s one that I’ve never gotten to. Um I’m I’ve heard great things. I I’ve seen the pictures. I just just never made the trek down the Parkway and and got out there. So that those would be two that I am very highly interested in playing. I do think Mike that we’ve we’ve did pretty a pretty good job on the public side to go play some of the top ones in in New Jersey and and get to a whole bunch this year. We kind of made a a conscious effort this this season. It was something that that you and I talked about off camerara a lot of that we wanted to play get on to more public courses just you know we don’t want to just be constantly showcasing you know the big courses right the big private ones so this is this was a a kind of a conscious decision and we did a pretty good job but I I think those are two that that we have not been to or I specifically have not been to and and I would really like to get to. Yeah, I you know opening up the curtain a little bit here is we have had some talks at architects about going down oh down there going all the way up there to to play to see that spot. Um if it doesn’t happen this fall it’s definitely could be a spot high on the radar come come next spring. Um and and to your point Pines is a great track, man. It’s it’s a tough track. It’s a fun track. Our boy Stephen K lives on Blue Heron Pine. So if you’re going there I know he listens to this. So, you better be texting him and let him know you’re going to be there because he’s going to want to he’s going to want to play. Um, yeah, it’s a good Those are two good tracks, you know. I like that. Um, so there you go. I would I would flip the question to you, Mike. What is your public track that you haven’t played yet that you would like to play? So, I I think you’re going to love my answer. I do. Um, it’s a spot that really we haven’t really played. I look at it from my perspective is Harmony Hill. And I know that that’s a spot that we’ve chatted about that we wanted to get there. Can we make it work? That’s, you know, where the podcast originated from. You know, this crazy idea that you pitched to me, this whole nine and not being able to play all 18 holes there. Um, and people constantly, yourself included, tell me that this is a top three, top five, top 10 public golf course in New Jersey. I think that’s the one spot for me that really I haven’t been to that I’d like to see the whole thing. And whether it happens this fall or next spring or in 5 years, um I would like to eventually find a way to get a tea time to beat the bot and play sometime in the morning there. Beating the bot is the tough part, right? I knew you’d like that one. I I I will say, Mike, I I didn’t even consider Harmony Hill just because I have played it. I’ve been there a lot more than you have. Um, even though we really haven’t played it, I I kind of took that as like uh a course that, you know, is is uh is something that I know a lot about. When we go play, I can tell you, hey, make sure you hit it to this side of the fairway or this side of the like I I know how many um more than a little bit. So, I didn’t consider that, but I think that’s a great one because I know it’s I know you we only played the same nine twice when we went there. That’s the birthplace of the podcast. Um, I I think that it would be great if on October 22nd, is that the first day of the of the we go play it on October 22nd? I think that might be something that we should try to do. But yeah, it’s uh it’s one that you got to get to. My worry is this. Sometimes it gets beaten up because everybody in the state wants to go play a course that’s perennially in the top five in the public uh the public’s mind. Um and and sometimes, you know, not the best golfers go and they don’t take the best care of it. That’s the only worry that I would have is that it it’s uh it’s had a rough summer with some of the weather and then some of the play. So, I don’t know what kind of shape it’s in. I I haven’t heard anything about it, but that would be my one worry. I will say I think the layout of it is is really it’s different there. When you go there, you you can tell like you’re at a different golf course than some other some of the other courses. I I did ask somebody recently who has played it if it’s in good shape and they said it was and they were you know pretty pretty confident with their answer I would say in terms of it being in good shape. So um again everybody’s you know perception about what good condition is you know varies but to that question I it was asked and they said yes. So, I don’t listen, it’s a spot that I know that when we think about the best public golf courses, it is in the conversation and to your earlier point, you did a phenomenal job going to a lot of great public golf courses this year. Um, so in the winter when we’re trying to think about, you know, the top five, top 10 spots to go, so on and so forth, I I would love to be able to include that. I can’t lie, I can’t make any promises, but it is high on the to-do list when it comes to scheduling certain things out. Love that. I love to hear that. I I I know you. I know you do. I know you do. Meanwhile, I got nine tabs here on my computer opened up. Um, Mike, I uh I do want to I do want to kind of flip it from the public there. And I want to ask you, can you name a private course that we haven’t played yet that you want to play? And here’s the caveat. something that’s outside of the top 10. Obviously, you want to get to Well, you’ve played Pine Valley and obviously I want to get to Pine Valley, right? Um something outside of the top 10, top 20 there. Yeah. I mean, I I don’t know if it’s outside the top 20, but like I I think the idea of re, you know, heading down the Parkway to Atlantic City Country Club would be a great spot to go play. I think I think the history there I think you know I haven’t played there probably in like three, four, five years now was a just a great track. Um I think the history there is unbelievable. I think walking through the locker room is absolutely sick. The idea that the putting green rolls right into the first tea is absolutely amazing. And on top you know that you know that gives me movement. Yeah. Yeah. And and on top you got the Atlantic City skyline right in a distance. Like there’s certain things about that golf course, not only from the aesthetics and the condition, but you want to talk about history. You want to talk about everything else that goes there. Like that place has it in my opinion. I don’t think it gets talked about enough, but I think there’s a reason why it probably doesn’t get talked about a lot because it doesn’t want to be talked about a lot, you know, cuz I I think Atlantic City would be that one spot. And I guess, you know, I think to your 1B point, like due process may be the other one. Like those are two spots that don’t ever want to be on anybody’s radar for reasons, but I think on my radar, they are high on it. And I would love to be the guy that talks about it even though they probably don’t want me to talk about it. Mike, uh, for the sake of this, I’ll go a different one, but Atlantic City is is my is one that I had two as well, but that’s Atlantic City is one of them. I I love that the green rolls right into the tea box. that kind of that that’s I love that you know I’m a history guy so being able to see the locker room with some of the names that are in there and even just know some of the people that have been there like man that that’s one that is very high up on the list and that’s a perfect one Mike of what I’m talking about. I don’t know if it’s in the top 20, but that’s one that’s not like a big one that that was perfectly for what I was what I was trying to get at, but for sure. The other one is one, you know, for me. I never got to Scotland Run when they were when they were public. Now that it’s private, that’s another one that I really would like to get to. Um, if I’m not mistaken, Mike, they’re owned by the same uh company, the theer group. Hey, here’s a shout out to you guys. like we would love to play those courses. You know, you let us know. Um I I would like to get out there. But those are two uh you know, you spoke so highly of Scotland Run. Um that it’s another one that I I just it’s it’s down in the south. It doesn’t get talked about a ton. You absolutely loved the course. Um if I’m not mistaken, Mike, you said it was your favorite public track when when you played it. Now that it’s private, it’s uh again, it’s it’s got a little more off the board. So, yeah, it’s it’s one that I would I would like to get to, but those are two that came to mind for me. Um, AC and and uh ACCCC and uh and Scotland Run were two that that I for sure had in mind. Two, I mean, listen, Scotland Run is is a fun fun track and I know a lot of people can can attest to that that have played it before it went private. Um, but yeah, let a man dream. Let a man dream. Um, Mikey, you got another question here. It’s a week of questions. It is because obviously being the guy that lives on his phone and is constantly seeing what’s going on on Tik Tok and what’s going on on Instagram and all these different, you know, social media platforms, I’m hearing people ask each other these certain questions about this or that. And I said, okay, what, you know, that’s an interesting question because I think we all think about good golfers differently. Some of us think like, oh, in order to be good, you got to do this or you got to do that or your handicap’s got to be this or that. So, I figured again, let me toss this question to you because I think you are the average golfer. There’s days where you can go low and there’s days where you can go high and there’s days you can just be rock solid in the middle. So, for someone like you to be considered a quote good golfer, what do you need to shoot average handicap? What does it need to be in your mind to say I’m a good golfer? It’s a great question because I think that each person is going to look at this differently. I think someone like you is going to have a much different answer than someone like me or people who are better than you are also going to have a different uh opinion. like someone who plays like super competitive golf. Um, you know, like Marcus Stanz is going to have a different answer than you. You’re going to have a different answer from me. I I think I think that’s what makes this question a great question. I think someone that’s breaking 90 constantly is a is a good golfer. So, uh, maybe in like the 85 range, right? That handicap’s probably 12 to 13, 14. Maybe I You know what? I’d probably stretch it to 15. Anyone 15 or better is a good golfer. Maybe that’s what I would say because I think 15’s breaking 90. Um, you know, I that puts me in there. I sometimes can go, you know, I I can, again, I’ve said it before, I love North Jersey. First time I played it, shot 94, 96, something like that. So it was it ate me up and I could certainly go there, but I also can go, you know, I’ve gone 77 or 79, 80, 81. So I, you know, I I would consider myself a good golfer, but I think then it’s giving the layers above me more. Like then there’s great golfers, really great golfers, excellent golfers, you know what I mean? So that’s what that’s what I would put it as. Someone in that like anywhere in that mid 80s to breaking 90 all the time. Something in the 15 range. I would say anyone above that’s a good golfer. So what would you describe Marcus Danz as? Excellent. What do you describe me as? Really good. So we’re adding the word really in front of in front of it to separate the differences. Yeah. I mean you so if if we go by by my score I’m going 83 84 85 somewhere is where I’m going and you’re going 80 75 76 77 is that kind of where Yeah. that I think I think really is five shots and that’s kind of right in that range. Five six shots. Listen it’s a fair scientific reasoning there. Yeah. No I I get it. I just because I think when I think about like if someone had asked me are you a really good golfer right like if someone said that to me I would say like I can play and not trying to be like you know humble or without bragging like that’s the that’s the problem with it Mike that’s the problem with the question is that is that you never golfers are not braggadocious by nature so for when someone asks you are you a good golfer even when they say to me like oh he you know he’s a good golfer no I I I can get it around. Right. So, the same thing for you. You can You’re going to say, “I can get it around because it’s just golfer’s nature.” I think if I were to ask a random guy that I don’t know, are you good at golf? In order for you to answer like yes, to me, like the index has to be five or lower, right? To me, like I’m saying like you got to be able to shoot 75 for you to be a good golfer. Otherwise, I just like to say you play golf, right? Because I I think about like there’s levels. To your earlier point, I don’t to me it’s like you’re really good and you could go 75 or lower. You golf. Okay. You could play like I get it around. I can go 75 to 95. That’s my range. Or I’m kind of like, you know, I break a 100. All right. You you just you get out there and you smack it around and enjoy the game. Or you’re over a 100 and frankly you’re still needing some lessons. And I hate to call a spade a spade, but that’s a fact. So I I think when you’re asking that question, cuz it’s funny, I saw Jim Nance give the answer to that and they had asked him in order to be a good golfer, what do you what do you need to shoot? And Jim Nan’s first answer was 72. Yeah. I I don’t I don’t think that’s the right answer just because it’s now you’re talking good is like is that that’s the best to me. Good is like the average. So there’s there’s great, good, bad. Like those would be the three categories for me. So to me, I’m thinking good is middle of the road. Great is something better, right? And then bad would be 100 or worse. In your point, needing lessons. Yeah. Trying not trying to hate on those followers or listeners that are saying like, “G yourself, Mike, cuz I shoot 105.” But I’m just saying, you know, the nature of the business is like when you’re starting to level that out and you hear different answers and nobody’s wrong. like you’re not wrong, I’m not wrong, I’m not right, you’re not right. The listeners are not the same way. So like it’s just kind of funny when you hear that question to get other people’s perceptions about when you start talking about levels to golf and what is good and what is not good. It’s interesting to hear everybody’s different point about it. I I think it’s how you how you define the word good more so than what you think about golf. Because if you think good and that’s near the top for you and then yeah, like Jim Nance probably thinks good is breaking 72 and the only thing above it is is Tiger Woods is a great golfer, then he leaves a lot of room on the bottom, right? Whereas my definition is good. That’s the middle ground. Great is anything above it. So I think that that’s uh I think it it maybe comes down to more how you how you envision or or define the word. great, good, average, beginner. Yeah, I can I can buy into that and then we can kind of break it down from there. I I will say I don’t know the rules to what I’m about to say, Mike, but I do know that in Germany you are required to take a test before you can go out on the golf course. Wow. There’s something and again I say it, I’ve I’ve heard it, but I don’t know anything about it. It’s kind of like a driver’s test that you have to pass a golfing test before you’re allowed to go play golf. Do you like that? I kind of do, but I I also I also won’t take I I I also think this I think then you have to have like I can understand if you have like this this golfing test in order to play certain places, but you also can’t get to those to pass the test if you’re not practicing. So, so like you know how sometimes you go to a place, this happened when I went to Tory Pines a few years ago, like the back tees were closed. You had to get permission to go play those TE’s. I think Pebbles’s the same way. Um, you know, I think there’s there’s certain places. And I could understand if certain places were to say, you have to have passed this test. If we were to have that in America, that would be something that I could understand. But then there also has to be places that allow for the people who haven’t passed that test to go play because to your point, people who aren’t shooting a hundred. Like there’s some people out there I know that just like they like to knock the ball around. They like to swing. They like to be in the golf cart, have a cocktail outside with their friends, right? They don’t even keep score. They hit, they go collect the ball, they drop with someone else who’s in the fairway. They hit again. If it went anywhere, you know, on the hole, they hit again, but if it goes kind of out, they’re keeping up the pace of play. They’re just out there for a good time. They wouldn’t pass this test, but they still enjoy being out there. So, I would think that there’d have to be something like that for people who are who are there to practice and get better and learn the game so that they could pass the test or for for that part of the the public that wants just that. They just want to be outside and and enjoy the game. But I could see I could see some courses m like having to pass a test. I I could I could I don’t think I’d hate that. And that is the I think that might be the most elitist thing that I’ve ever said on this podcast. Yeah. I I was saying you’re talking about you want to talk exclusivity. I mean, holy hell, that that’s it. You get a 65, you need a 70. Sorry, you’re gone. Go home. Yeah, it’s a tough look, but I know for me that I wouldn’t fall into that. Mike, it’s why it’s, you know, it’s why that you’ve been invited to places to play golf and they don’t invite me because they know that I’m going to not play well there and and get torn up. So, I can understand that. I’m saying that and fall into the category of he might not pass the test, but but to me, I would say that passing that test would be a high number. Like to me, it would be like you need to break a hundred three times or something like that. Like because there’s some people, you know, we we look at Bar Stool, right? Bar Stool Trent, you know, recently broke a hundred. Do you think he shouldn’t have been allowed when he was shooting, you know, 110 on those on those courses? I like I would think that you would now that he’s shooting in the 90s constantly, to me, that’s something that like yeah, you can you can be in there. Like I wouldn’t I’m not thinking that passing a test is is like getting your PGA uh like at the PGM they got to they got to break 78 three times or something like that. I wouldn’t I don’t I don’t envision it the test being that hard, right? Maybe it’s something like break 100 or you know or something like that. So that playing test, not a not a like. No, I have no it’s I’m pretty sure it’s not a written test. the the the again, this is a few years ago. I remember hearing somebody talk about it. I got the I got the impression it was a playing test or like a swing test or or something, but there’s there’s a test that that goes on. Maybe we’ll maybe someone else knows about it. Maybe I could do some more research on it. But yeah, there’s there’s there was something there that like there was a golfing test before you could go play golf. Yeah, I think there’d be a riot in America if that tried to happen. But nonetheless, listen, you know, interesting. That’s an interesting take. Do you like Do you like it? Do you not like it? I mean, think about some of those times that you go to a public place and someone who doesn’t know the golf course etiquette, someone who isn’t good, someone who is is tearing up the course. Like, how many videos do we see of those guys fighting out there now? You tell me those guys would pass a test that that they don’t know anything about etiquette either way, the fighting or the slow play because you got to assume that’s what it’s over. Yeah, I I understand what you’re saying, right? And I also think like a lot of us learn by being out there and playing the golf course. So like the more that I got to play, the more that I I would learn rather than the first time I get out there, I’m not going to break a 100 because I have no clue what I’m doing, especially if I’m playing by the game of the golf big game of rules of golf. So you’re probably not going to break 100 per se because you’re going to first of all probably ground the club in the bunker and people don’t know you can’t do that. So and then you talk about a written test like the way of the world we live in today AI you could take every single question plug it in you’re going to get a 100 and not have any clue. And I think what we have here in America is public and private. So like you start talking about exclusivity. It’s like now it’s money based, but you could go play these private spots a lot more accessibly than you would a public spot because you have the money and the means to do that. I don’t know if I agree with that. I I don’t I you know, I think there’s ways that the general public could learn about the two things that you just mentioned as being the biggest catalyst in the bad optics. You know, pace of play is probably number one, right? Like just I would say by a mile. Yeah. Just move. Just move. you know, no one really cares anything and the fighting is just ridiculous. But yeah, I don’t know if I could buy into that. I mean, like I and and I did say they would have courses for for the everybody, but then if you’ve passed the test, you wouldn’t go play the the course that you know is the test course because you’ve you’ve already passed that. You’ve passed the I’m trying to think of courses that are like like Bair, right? That’s an executive course. Um, it’s it’s that would be a good like testing. You shouldn’t move from Bair to go play, you know, Harmony Hill or Pine Valley, right? Unless until you’ve and you don’t even need to have mastered P uh Pine Valley Belair until you’ve gotten until you’ve gotten to a point where you know how to go about the golf course, right? So, it’s not even like it’s not like we wouldn’t have those courses, but I could I could see the benefits of that. I I could Forge Pond’s another one of those executive type golf courses. Yeah, I think those galloping hills learning nine. Yeah. Like there’s there’s a few of those that you know uh learn how to play golf. Learn how to how to that your your position on the golf course is behind the person in front of you, not in front of the person behind you. Learn that your you know h how to swing. learn the rules of you can’t ground your club in the bunker or you know th all those things those are those are learning for a reason right we we we go to kindergarten before we go to eighth grade for a reason right so I don’t know I can I can see the benefits of it yeah it’s a bold take from Ryan Kulop I didn’t think I’d hear that take coming out of your mouth but hey listen there’s a hot take every so often yeah I I try I try to keep you on your toes a little bit there Mike we got you got any uh you got any other questions for me any brain busters that I can uh hot take for you. That’s all I got. And and I do know that you listen, I know we’ve gotten some DMs like, “Where are you guys going this fall? Where are you playing? Are you playing?” You know, things of that nature. Um and and it is a, you know, busy time of the year for the two of us with school starting and and I have probably explained this to a lot of different people that this is not our career. You know, we’re school teachers by career. We do this because we love doing this. We love putting things out for everybody out there. But we do have a, you know, four, five, maybe six rounds in in the coffer coming through the fall all the way to the posting season ends in in early November. So, you’ll see some things popping up. You’ll see some things at private golf courses, some public golf courses. It’s still it may not be as jam-packed as the summer and the spring were, but we are going to do our best to get out there and golf our golf ball as much as we can. Yeah, no doubt. It is uh it is a busy time for us as we get back into the swing of things and get into a little bit routine and we don’t you know it’s it’s you run out of daylight at some points if you try running over to the course after school or something but yeah we uh we’re going to try to make some things happen and like you said we got a couple couple things lined up with a couple more in the works and it it feels like it’s been a while. I had a nice week two weeks ago but then I I haven’t I haven’t swung the club since. So, I’m I’m itching to get out there and uh and and hoping to hoping to make some things happen. So, with that, Mike, you got nothing else? That’s it, buddy. Neither do I. Stay tuned on Thursday for our interview with Dean Graaserman to finish the the holy trinity of New Jersey golf from the from the Grazerman family. Till then, cheers.