Craig Gile, CEO discusses the revolutionary science behind @coolmitt

Episode #180
Craig Gile – What are Cool Mitts and why should you care? The innovative technology behind Cool Mitts, and How are Cool Mitts revolutionizing sports and training?

Craig Gile (IG: @realcoolmitt, X: @realcoolmitt, FB: @realcoolmitt) a former Naval Aviator and executive on Wall Street, is the Founder and President of CoolMitt® — technology derived from a discovery at Stanford University and funded for the military by DARPA. A non-invasive solution that leverages the body’s radiators – the hairless palms of the hands and soles of the feet – CoolMitt is proven in the lab and the field to be the most effective technology in reducing core temperature. Currently being used by hundreds of professional and college athletes, as well as numerous industrial companies seeking a heat mitigation solution, CoolMitt delivers transformative benefits for athletic performance, health and wellness.

Be sure to check out Cool Mitts – https://coolmitt.com/

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Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Cool Mitts and Its Origins
03:55 The Science Behind Cooling Technology
06:55 Training Benefits: Strength and Endurance
09:50 Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness and Recovery
12:55 Real-World Applications in Sports
15:59 The Mechanism of Cool Mitts
18:51 Comparing Cooling Methods: Cool Mitts vs. Cold Beverages
22:05 Athlete Experiences and Performance Gains
25:03 Conclusion and Future of Cooling Technology
33:18 Athletic Benefits of Cooling Technology
36:31 Cognitive and Performance Enhancements
38:11 Applications Across Sports
42:50 Real-World Testing and Feedback
47:31 Future Developments and Innovations
52:15 Challenges in Implementation and Awareness
01:05:00 Product Design and User Experience
01:08:12 Overcoming Skepticism and Demonstrating Effectiveness
01:10:55 Applications in Sports and Recovery
01:14:01 Future Technology Integration and Data Collection
01:17:04 Broader Applications Beyond Sports
01:20:01 Lessons from Other Industries
01:22:48 Vision for the Future and Closing Thoughts

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what would be one thing that uh you wish more people understood about cool mits Couple um people think like it’s not hot out I don’t need it Whenever we have hockey teams that use it so you know if you’re generating heat you’re you’re going to need it People think it’s um it uh and it doesn’t I don’t feel it right away So it’s not you know it’s not working So if you’re if you’re quantifying your workout you’ll see it right away It’s crazy that way But if you’re a worker and that will feel you’re not going to you necessarily feel you have to have some level of faith that’s working The analogy I give people are two One is like you know you know you’re supposed to hydrate You don’t necessarily feel like you’re jumping out of the gym after you hydrate right because feel a little bit better It’s not like you feel that much different but you know you’re going to benefit from it We are rocking and rolling I am here with the founder president of the Cool Mitts Mr Craig G Craig thank you for taking time out of your day to come on the show and tell everybody about cool stuff you’re doing Appreciate you having me and uh and discussing you know what we’re doing with Cool uh appreciate the opportunity You know the uh as I when I we were back and forth in email and I I believe I know was it to you or somebody else who asked me who was coming on or they they saw the post and they messed him I thought it was to you but it was um you know with cold therapy ice baths and and things of that nature being the forefront Uh and but as as I have known about your product for some time uh as we were talking earlier from the Huberman podcast and Dr Heler was the first time I saw the the commercial version of it and got on the website and like “Wow this is really great.” But uh I thought it’d be very cool to have you on not only to talk about the the technology and how great of a product it is and the tremendous amount of benefits that athletes in general and whether some people like it or not golfers are considered athletes They do play the sport Uh but in particular the the ability and I’m going to get out of the way and let you talk about the technology and everything else and the muscular overheating and everything else and but the ability to train longer uh more improved etc But um I I guess the to to where to begin before I get too far ahead of myself is to to kind of ask you where the genesis of of this was What what propelled you to to come up with this idea Oh that’s a good question And to be clear I can’t take a lot of credit for the idea because my the brilliant scientists that I work with did it But um I came across I guess it is relevant to much as I disdain talking about myself I I will uh give you my background how I came across it But um it is a little bit of a function of my background So I at a well I am a failed athlete I’m not not playing in the NBA uh right now I wanted to play basketball uh as a kid Um the uh collegiate coaching fraternity had a different idea for me turns out But the Navy actually gave me a scholarship to go to college Um and uh ultimately I flew jets off an aircraft carrier for the Navy Um and this is going to be relevant in a second again So um then I got out of the Navy went to business school went to uh Wall Street um for a while and then getting down to this part of my career for the startup venture part Um through my Navy network I met the gentleman who had funded this technology originally for the military’s deep R&D arm which is called DARPA Now if you don’t know what DARPA is stands for Defense Advanced Research Project Agency Like everything in the military there is an acronym Um and so DARPA was originally stood up in the 1950s like literally as a reaction to the Soviet Union beating us space with Splutnik And since then its mandate has to uh been to invest in revolutionary science and technology uh first to win the Cold War um and then to keep the United States ahead of everyone else you know since then or I’m not sure what uh what temperature war we’re in these days but um yeah keep us ahead of everyone science and technology So um again it’s revolutionary science and technology I knew about that when I was in the military I did not really know the aim that they do actually have a stated aim to have the technology ideally have a you know civilian technology purpose as well So famously for DARPA uh they funded what became you know the original funders what became the internet GPS robotics email even the mRNA vaccine were all originally DARPA projects So I met Joe Bitzky who was a program manager uh for four years at DARPA um here in Florida I’m in Orlando Florida as it happens Um and uh so Joe was in charge of what was called the peak soldier performance program So ironically enough Joe was a pacifist So when they tried to recruit him away from NASA he did not want to work on a program that would kill people So they got gave him a a program where he can make the soldiers bigger stronger and faster and come home Um and so one of the problems that they were trying to solve that he invested in was soldiers working in extreme environments um like Iraq And so he put out what’s called a broad agency announcement It’s a global scientific community And what he ultimately invests in is this discovery at the aforementioned Dr Heler at Stanford and his colleague Dennis Cron that we as human beings have a a particular part of our body that is most effective at radiating heat when you’re overheated and that part of the body is the soles of the feet the palms the hands and the upper part of the face The reason for that is it has a different arterial structure So most of our body is really good at sensing heat and frankly uh uh insulating us from cold because you know generally speaking we’re in an environment you know colder than our blood temperature is uh but it’s not super good at at you know radiating heat and cooling your core temperature Sweating is how you ultimately do it It’s not super effective So Dr Dr Heler and GR ironically uh as an outgrowth of studying bears coming out of hibernation realized that we have these mamlian adaptations to our body where we radiate heat out of the hairless palms of hands souls of heat Um again like I said earlier it’s a different arterial structure Um and I don’t want to get too sciency because uh I’m a a layman’s biologist at best but uh you know basically it’s it’s a confluence of arteries and veins but also importantly has what are called arterial venus anastmosis or AVAs And so when you overheat uh these AVAs open up to form a wider shunt It’s called vasoddilation and allows for more rapid blood flow arteries to veins to the would the AVAs be a smaller like a capillary instead of an artery or vein or so they like bypass or like their conjunction is instead of capillaries I mean okay the way I look at it capillaries uh you know the way I way they made me understand it is uh the rest of your body has that capillary structure and the capillaries are narrow and resistive and only a fixed amount of blood flow can go through them It it doesn’t vary at all These uh you know the glabberous part of the body is called these things open up and varying amounts of blood can flow through them That’s so that they can move blood faster or slower through the system based off the dilation of of the wall Precisely Yep Okay Well then that would make total sense if they’re trying to remove heat and they can open up more then it’s going to allow heat to escape faster I would Yeah So I mean uh I I’ll preface all this with like uh everything I say here with any data is like you there’s data or science behind it that will actually identify things that there’s no uh don’t have actually data Um but uh so um they discovered that this part of the body is at least five times as effective at radiating heat as the rest of your body And so you know they put their proposal to DARPA Uh we think we can build something to you know solve this problem They get $5 million from DARPA um and they create technology out of this discovery So basically what it does is they uh they create technology to kind of pull heat out of this part of the body And typically the hands are the most available for for most people So uh and I’ll go through how they kind of stumbled upon the the crazy uh athletic training benefits Um so they get the five uh you know over time $5 million from DARPA you have to prove they can cool somebody down with technology and they built like a a early kind of lab device out of it Um but first step of that is getting someone overheated So they had a PhD student in their lab who was a wrestler type of athlete could do a lot of pull-ups and so they have him do 10 sets of pull-ups to failure three-minute break in between They have this very invasive tool to actually accurately measure core temperature which is not that easy to get How how long ago was this Just to give some context 15 20 years ago Okay Um and so for what it’s worth this I find this interesting This tube uh this device is like a tube goes up someone’s uh nose goes down and measures the uh temperature of the blood going back into your heart Sounds like a lot of fun Is they should get a Nobel Prize just for how many people have got to do this for all their published papers It’s crazy But the the theory behind that is not just because they’re draconian um you know there’s all sorts of different temperatures in your body as you have different demands on your blood So their theory if you’re talking about core temperature which is really kind of impacts your performance is goes all through your body going back into the heart that’s the best measure of dynamic measure of your core temperature So as difficult as is to get there that’s actually accurate So they have this PhD student do these you know pull-ups They see his temperature rise They put him on their their early device They see it come down He first set he would do 20 some odd pull-ups Last set he he’d plateau around eight Um he cools once unprompted jumps back on the pull-up bar and does like 18 So his 11th set is 18 pull-ups And they’re like kind of a Eureka moment like “Holy cow what just happened there?” So that sends them down a whole another path of discovery Uh and again this is revolutionary stuff as they’re developing it So no one really knew how much heat could limit performance So what’s happening there So if you’re going to failure excuse me um your localized muscles in that example are overheating That heats up your pyrovate canace that sends a signal to your brain to stop sending ATP Again layman’s sports science kinesiology Um and so you you go to failure That’s why you fail Dr Heler would claim that if you they didn’t have that mechanism you could literally burn your muscles because the temperature can get really high So if you can effectively get that heat out before your next set you can then go do it’s almost like your first set You can do a lot more volume of work And so it logical to one but also proven in their papers If you train like this over time there’s a metabolic adaptation to that increased work volume We have these sustainable training gains Does that make sense That makes total sense And so you don’t have to keep doing it As long as you keep working out you’re going to have these gains And you know you’re not going to go to infinity pull-ups Uh at some point your body does have have a a cap You have seen people you know plateau out stop using it and then kind of have further gains But um it is it’s amazing and it’s it’s a non-invasive way to accelerate what your body wants to naturally do and unlock your body’s performance So you’re basically biohacking your system Yeah You know with while the biohack you know Ben Greenfield comes to mind I’ve read all his books and big fan of his podcast to give not that he needs it to give Ben a plug but uh I mean that’s basically what what he his he discusses in his his expertise is how what systems out there will make the body perform much better the the the question that that comes to mind my my mind is when somebody trains and and I’ll relate it to uh as we’re in the summer now and we’re getting into warmer weather and and people are hopefully looking for ways that they can train more and longer and this I’m sure this episode and your product is going to be very interesting to them Was there anything that that they found that the result of uh muscular soreness so if they’re older the the delayed onset muscle soreness or if they’re younger the muscle soreness a day or two after was that related to the overheating or was it related to the muscle breakdown and being used And then the the followup on that would be did the did the cooling of of the the muscles of course it allowed them to train more so they’re doing more reps or more volume Um and I would have to imagine stronger but did that have a diminishing return at some point where their body just couldn’t recover fast enough Good question And uh before I address that if it’s okay I’ll go on I talk about the strength training benefits and why that works uh uh biologically There’s also endurance training benefits and it’s a little bit different but the same overall theme heat being the issue So if I’m uh uh conditioning and I’m going to exhaustion in that stage not necessarily localized muscles overheating it’s your overall core temperature rising right And so get about 102 102 and a half Fahrenheit you start to have start to have performance degradation So if you can force that happening same thing you can kind of just train harder for longer So uh a good example to visualize it in my view is we have one like elite track cyclist who has used this like on a stationary bike which you can I’ll talk about the device in a bit but uh which you can on a stationary bike and he had this one routine uh power routine where he would like go as hard as he could set RPMs and wattage and he would flame out like every time before four minutes and he was able to kind of set the coolment up on his uh on his stationary And the first time he did it he was able to go is just shy of 6 minutes So nearly a 50% gain of the first time he did it What’s happening there is like normally he’s like his core temperature is rising rising and he goes to the fail stop When he’s using cool mit he’s he’s the whole time like pulling heat out of his body so we can kind of keep going That’s why you have these these uh conditioning training gains as well And very good question you know from uh what you say on on the uh the Dons and overtraining So uh haven’t had any you know to be fair you know so far we’ve been use working with primarily pretty experienced elite athletes So we haven’t had any they’re savvy enough to not overdo it U haven’t had any reports of people you know overtraining because of cool We do have a lot through the years and a lot recently of uh again experienced condition athletes coming back uh to us and to Dr Heler like oh it was great how much more work I was you know more volume I could do in this workout but I was fully expecting to you know to pay for it in a day or two from with doms um and I didn’t have it um and so uh as it happens Dr Heler is finishing up he thinks this summer a study kind of showing that and with a theory as to why it happens and I don’t want to I would be definitely over my skis trying to explain biologically why why that’s happening but we do get it over and over again I think it’s ultimately like because you’re not overheating you’re getting less inflammation and that’s what causes the doms Um and so uh that’s what we’ve seen on the on the doms uh similar to that and a lot of sport scientists and uh certainly people smarter than me are are big into lac lactate lactic acid buildup when you’re working out Similarly he has a study that they’re finishing the summer uh and uh putting to be published uh essentially showing that so when you’re have a elevated lactic acid levels it’s just a biomarker of greater fatigue Um and uh their theory was if you could do the same in a controlled environment do the same level of of work cooling versus non-cooling you’d have a lower lactic threshold uh to that There you go less fatigue and uh the data they have uh uh sustains that So um that’s the other kind of thing that’s going on So um again you know give them credit you know no one was quite as aware of what the limitations of heat You know back in the day when uh I was a young athlete it was you know played basketball in Florida like you know it suck it up keep going or you know uh run till you puke and you’ll be better tomorrow uh and uh you know wasn’t necessarily this all the knowledge we have now across sport science but in particular the heat they’ve kind of unlocked uh this uh this concept for people to see you know exactly how to uh create peak performance god well knowing the mindset of golfers across the spectrum so once people get the golf bug as it’s commonly referred to um and let’s just say we we’ll take 20 plus handicap all the way to tour pro that They’re notorious for practicing too much You know obviously the the deep passion for the game contributes to that but then they also pay the price later on So I could just imagine once this catches on in the golf community that people will be feeding that passion of beating balls for hours knowing that they can uh just take breaks in between put the cool mitts on and not have the fatigue or the soreness I got feedback uh from data on that and uh you know full disclosure for this podcast Um as an athlete I told you how bad I was in basketball I got uh good enough in tennis to realize how bad I am I’m so bad in golf I’m even sure how bad I am I’m not even smart enough to know how bad I am But um so uh we do have some PGA and LPGA golfers as customers got feedback from frankly the personal uh physical therapist uh of one of them prominent um PGA player who has used this in training and you know in the strength training he’s certainly seen results in that but also he uh you know they track everything but he was tracking exit velocity on range um range sessions and cool in between I’m not sure how many shots you would do before but I do have similar data from baseball players like 15 swings um and uh so basically they would normally have some degradation of that exit velocity uh later in the the session and did not have that when they versus when they cooled So when they cooled they had like this consistent uh you know they’re uh much more finely tuned than me I could be uh uh velocity is not my problem Uh but you know they’re able to kind of keep going at more productive uh range session uh which obviously is what they’re trying to do the um the the common thought process for a very long time uh when it came to like let’s say heavier training So somebody’s going to do uh they’re doing three to five sets I mean I’m sorry three to five reps Y and and the the the thought is you’re going to take off minimum of 2 minutes up to 5 minutes between working that exercise again and and it’s not as much uh from from the people I’ve had on the show uh and the and the studies or not studies I’ve been involved but the studies I’ve read going back to the Charles Poloquin days um and some of the Russian models was that that is as much neural fatigue that you have to let the neural system uh reset itself after you just put the put it through uh you you’ve peaked it out or maybe hit 101 103 105% of its max I is is there a does the cooling have an effect on on the as it as the brain regulates the muscle to the temperature does it have a some sort of effect have they found out on on the brain’s ability as it as you’re developing movement patterns and and the brain is obviously the the driver of that that is um certainly not my area of expertise I don’t have a a good answer for that I have some theories so one thing to point out like um I tell people like this is not like a magic mitt where you put your hand in it and get magically stronger um got to get your body into a heat limited state where it’s actually going to show the benefit So I tell people like uh the reason I can’t bench press 400 lb is not because I’m you know not because of heat because I’m not strong enough right Um but uh the reason I can’t well I got a number Do my 11th rep of 185 I’ve already proven I’m strong enough Heat’s the problem with that So you got to get to a point where you’re doing enough reps where heat’s the issue That’s why you get these these benefits Um on the neural part of it um I can’t say for sure although we do have working with a partner to uh do a strength study uh in New York uh Dr Brad Shenfeld Um and I’m not sure if the neural component is part of what they’re doing but um one thing about the the neural thing it is you know what I do know uh in terms of just heat mitigation overall um there’s a big difference between feeling cool and actually addressing the problem and getting cooler Um to be perfectly clear you use a cool mitt you’re not going to get a breath of fresh air going through your body because it’s actually getting the heat out of your body You don’t sense your core temperature Um but when you have a misting band or a cold towel in your neck all that’s doing really is making you feel cooler And uh the way Dr Heler tells it is you’re kind of tricking your thermostat So that’s the neural part So your your bo your brain is thinking that you know you have less of a heat problem than you do So uh some of those measures you know we always tell people like don’t not do them There is a benefit to feeling cooler but don’t expect it to really address your overheating problem Getting the heat out the body is what you really want to do You know obviously sweating does some of that but you know we have shown that uh this is much more rapidly effective than that And for what it’s worth people do see and this is actually is a good benefit for uh golfers in your neck of the woods and mine this time of year Uh substantially less sweating uh when you can use this throughout a round or throughout a athletic competition So you know and there’s a benefit to that too Yeah I wish I had it yesterday And and to speak to the body cooling down I I did my 40 50 minute 60-minute bike ride yesterday and then had to go do some office work and that you know I get back and I’m I’m running a little behind So I jump in the shower and have as cold as possible thinking it’s going to just cool me down enough but uh 5 10 minutes after the shower as I’m getting dressed and getting my stuff together I’m still sweating the the cold shower knocked it down for a few minutes but then as soon as I got out of there it was Well again so you’re you’re feeling cooler but it’s not doing really much to to get the core temperature down Um Yeah And so we have um and people don’t realize because you can’t really uh can measure it very uh very accurately Um you can’t really feel it but you can maintain a heat load in your body for a very long time way longer than you think That’s why you know some people have you know if they do a late workout um have problem going to sleep afterwards because they kind of maintain that heat And you know heat is uh uh a deterrent to getting to sleep um and getting to to quality sleep So we actually have a lot of folks who do a lot of athletes that do use this um for for sleep reasons To your story uh one of our ambassadors is this uh remarkable young gentleman who’s a triathlete Uh he’s a bit of an underachiever He’s a pro triathlete and a medical student at Ohio State His name Matthew Markwart uh who actually just won a pro triathlon down in Australia But um so he has like no time no free time He’s either in med school or doing all this training for a triathlon And you know he does get the benefits particularly on the bike when he’s training with it But he’ll use it like after a workout to your point before he goes to the shower because he has to like get out of the shower and go to class He doesn’t want to be sweating So it actually has been that issue for him So if I’m thinking about you know my uh schlubby golf day here in uh Orlando Florida and you know the uh late round where I’m uh got you know swamp shorts um and uh the beers are not uh not winning the day on that Um being able to kind of like reduce the sweat is you know I think going to help my performance for one but um uh if anything it helped my performance but um you know certainly make you feel better uh during the round and enjoy your round better Yeah To before I send us off on a tangent um we you were talking about uh how the the the the focal points of the cooling mechanism of the body would be the hairless follicles So So the the more or less the the cheeks or under the eyes and um the palms and the bottoms of the feet and I think even the forehead if if I So yes this part of the face for what it’s worth um the uh the face AVAs do prioritize blood flow to the brain Um so it’s a little bit less effective on the overall core temperature of your basically your organs Uh but it does have that effect So let me talk about the device a little bit if that’s okay Yeah that was a question is I want to get an underlying science and how it works Uh that that’s what I was coming back to that So um uh again so we took the most recent version out of Stampers Lab created a manufacturable first version out of that and that’s what is now on the market and uh we’ve had good traction uh with it We have over 70 professional teams across all the major sports dozens of college programs and they have multiple sports there Um but Stanford University is probably our our calling card program they like 14 I was there last week but um 14 different sports I know are using it regularly um Olympians to France teams special forces military you know any a lot of elite performers so the device um and I’ll tell you how it works and I’ll I’ll answer the questions that we always get so it’s about a foot high and 8 inches in diameter portable and battery operated so you can kind of carry it around but you’re not going to want to like you know run with it certainly weighs about 7 lbs put in a backpack before you put ice down I mean live Uh I can tell you a track and field story in a second but um so the bottom chamber it’s like a uh vacuum sealed cooler type of thing has ice and water in there that does not flow through the system That would be too cold and I’ll talk about that in a second That’s a heat sink So the upper chamber has a a closed loop of water Water comes out of it at the ideal temperature It’s in the mid-50s Um the reason for that is and the first question I always get like all right so the hands are where I want to radiate heat I’ll just put my hand in a bucket of ice wouldn’t that be faster which is logical right um the reality is the body doesn’t work that way so if it’s too cold uh the body actually has a defense mechanism against that called vasoc constriction perversely is maintaining heat in your body so you don’t want to do that tell you that so this is above that range um and so the water comes out at that ideal temperature you put your hand inside our mitt it but it’s on top of this pad that has water flowing through it And we kind of been dialed in from them at the the flow rate and the the pattern of the water to maximize the heat exchange But what’s happening this is the important part Uh the heat’s transferred from the blood in your hand to this water and by convection it takes it away So it’s not just as simple as getting your hand cold You have to have the heat go somewhere This is what happens So heat flows out goes back to that system It gets rechilled in that ice chamber goes back to the system this little device in there that regulates temperature coming out If a constant flow of water going across your hand pulling heat out allowing colder blood to flow to your heart and that cools you from the inside out Um and again it’s it’s uh that kind of begets the next question I always get which is uh and they generally phrase it this way Um how long do I have to do this for it to work Um and the answer is it starts working right away So if I’m overheated put my hand in there heat’s going to start coming out right away helpfully is exponentially faster the rate of ex rate of heat transfer the first minute then it starts to uh revert to the mean we’ve seen in the lab in the field about the third or fourth minute So first minute is your biggest bang for the buck 3 minutes is a really good time to use it There’s no danger going too long Frankly it’s never going to get you too cold All it’s doing is getting heat out of your body when it needs to get out of your body So it never gets you below your core temperature So um uh that’s the way that it works And again um this is through you know now years and years of of developed and discovery by these uh brilliant Stanford scientists kind of dialing in the best you know um methodology to get the heat out of your body Again it works on the feet too Um you know we do have some combat athletes that that you know use our current version which is designed for the hand because most people have hands more available than the feet they can put their feet in it and they’re the uh you know BJHJ or or UFC uh athletes in training have been seeing the results u really some really good stories out of that So um that’s the basic uh biological phys physical mechanism by which it works convection pulling the heat out of your hand while having colder blood flow to your heart including from the inside out and and and the difference between that and and as you mentioned if it’s a hot day and you’re drinking cold beer or you’re drinking cold water whatever you’re drinking Um because some some people I am sure would would think that drinking colder beverages is going to cool your system down And others who might be smarter or think that they’re smarter would say “Well if if the blood flow runs through the digestive system the stomach included and you’re putting cold beverages and that that’s going to uh get cold through your body faster when most likely the science doesn’t back that up But as you said already it’s that the extraction of the heat in unison with the the cooling and not necessarily cold I believe you said about 50° Um which for a lot of people is very cold I remember when I started getting an ice bath or what It’s 55 not 50 but it’s it’s cool but it’s cool Yes it’s cool It especially the first time you do that Uh then you get down colder and then you start to understand the vasod dilation as you start to get under 50° and things get starts to get the gas reflex Yep But um what what would be the difference basically either the layman difference or the scientific difference between say drinking six cold beers during a round of golf and wearing the cool mitts I know that’s probably seems like a very dumb question but I’m sure that a lot of people who are maybe being introduced to this for the first time are thinking well I could just drink my beer and I’m going to get the same effect But they’re not They’re not Again uh I’m a uh a engineering major in college and a finance major from business school So I’m no biologist So I uh says uh below layman’s biology uh and I have asked that question to Dr Hill effectively um what’s happening is uh getting colder fluid in your your stomach is not getting distributed to your your bloodstream It’s kind of contained in in your stomach Um the beers have been shown to not to help my my golf game to be clear So uh uh but uh um so this is like literally just getting the heat out of your body So one you know one thing people think think they can do and you know it is I’m not saying don’t do it if you don’t have cool mment but um you can put your hand on a a can of Budweiser um it might be right temperature range uh and it’ll it will cool your palm but as I mentioned earlier it just conducts uh you know that heat and then it’s called a boundary layer that develops and just stop stops transferring heat um so it’s a a short ephemeral benefit of getting cooler but it’s not really getting that heat out of your body so that’s why you know what they have devised is you know a natural way to get the heat out of your body and have that core temperature uh come down um uh we have an advisor on our our team Um uh his name is Dr David Martin He’s wonderful Um uh people have told me he might be the best sport scientist um on in the world He ran uh the Australian Institute for Sport um years ago before he got kind of recruited away by the 76ers Um and now he’s had this Silicon Valley uh outfit But um they used to do like the kind of ice chips uh as a pre as a pre-cooling before events um and they didn’t find it to be in fact they actually found it to be counterproductive and I’m not going to butcher his story of how the science of why it worked but they found it uh counterproductive again that’s that’s a different thing than what we’re talking about you know pre-cooling before an elite athlete goes out they warm up that’s a you know Heler would say that’s a bad phrase you want your muscles to get loose but not nec necessarily overheated So a lot of athletes do is like they do that warm up if they can they use the cool right before while they’re you know on a stationary bike and warm up sometimes get the heat out while they’re doing it So their muscles are uh muscles are loose but their core temperature is lower and they have this thermal reserve before they get to a heat emitted state So yeah So the the the the thought process that anybody thought they could cheat your system and say “Well I’ll just keep a bottle of water in the cooler on the golf cart and every couple holes I’ll just sit there and hold it.” That’s not going to that might as you said that might using the can of Budweiser as the example It might help you feel cooler in your hands but it’s not going to pull heat or extract heat out of Yeah I mean to be fair like a little bit of heat’s going to be right when you touch it it’s going to be transferred but you know it’s not going to be have a lasting effect Has there been uh the uh uh I would have to assume that that most of the athletes and the special forces of course are benefiting because they’re spending time in in warmer climates but have you seen is it have been across the board increases in production and performance as far as training or has there been certain sports specific or movement specific uh that’s a good question where it has been a benefit Yeah So um it’s been you know a lot of various stories that we get Um so to to recap the um the athletic benefits are in strength training endurance training or or conditioning and then delayed onset of fatigue So the way that manifests itself that you know you can quantify the first two right I do a benchmark you know uh bench press test or do a benchmark cycling workout I can quantify exactly how much better I’m doing Um delay onset of fatigue a little bit more difficult to gauge you know athletes who tune to their body you know do know and can give us like you know subjective feedback you know and we can get some uh metrics through like uh catapults or you know even heart rate monitors people can see like how the heart rate for what it’s worth you know I think it’s interesting for people to know um your core temperature uh just a few degrees in core temperature is where you’re going to rise from normal to um to a problem 102 is 100 you degradation 104s becomes a natural health problem uh we can kind of like uh won’t use the word for that we can mitigate you get into that state right um but even a small difference in that core temperature have a big difference on your performance that’s why you know the elite athletes that we work with see it’s a big benefit later on I get to kind of working with a general population industrial settings and others uh because this is a much bigger solution than just you know having a NFL player do more bench press um so uh you know what you can do is is get that delayed onset of fatigue Um if you can like sequentially get that heat out of your body you know instead of like your core temperature and heart rate going up like this every time you can be at every uh every three holes on a golf course or every timeout in basketball or every changeover in tennis get a little bit of heat out at the end of that game match instead of being up here on your core temperature and heart rate every time you get a little bit out you’re going to be down here And so this is where I have anecdotal reports and not actual uh published studies But if you are overheated it’s settled science that you’re going to is going to degrade your cognitive ability So yeah that was going to be my question What’s the cognitive uh result Yep So uh there is that benefit if you’re an athlete I’ll use basketball example uh if I’m at the end of a game uh if I’m one if I can do this I’ll be fresher have more energy and you know what my uh customers and colleagues you know point out is like there’s really nothing you can do say in the basketball game to give yourself more energy at the end except for maybe some some kind of sugar carb loading in the in a game you’re not sure when that’s going to kick in you kind of know it’s going to come out you know right when you do it right so the end of game you have more energy for one and you’re also going to have you know be making better decisions because you’re not exhausted Okay So um it manifests itself in that We do have there’s some science behind we have a lot of anecdotal reports for what it’s worth And this actually is uh something for golf Um when you’re overheated your fine motor skills will also degrade So if you can prevent that from happening you’re going to have better control of your fine motors We have have seen that in uh sports like uh baseball Pitchers uh report that to us We even had it within working with a u a crew in the oil patch these mechanics in this crazy hot weather in the Perian jail in in Texas Um and uh the guys came back was using it during the day like hey in the day I was like you know I had better control of my you know my mechanical duties than I normally do So that’s that that science working with that is like um getting that heat out of your body has the cognitive benefits as well as the fine motor skill uh maintenance Yeah that that makes total sense Um it’s like and just living here in in in Hilton Head area playing golf in the winter you know you could play all day long and you really don’t feel like you wear out right Summertime you get done with 18 holes you feel like you’ve been break over the coals and beat up and hit by a truck Yeah It’s like God I can’t wait to get home And then once you get in air conditioning you don’t want to get off the sofa Regardless of age you’re younger of course you have the energy you can get off the sofa as you get older you I’m not getting up No thanks Um what as far there has been in the golfing world and I’m sure some of the past guests that be on will probably message me or call me on this and say you were completely off but uh I I know that there has been discussion and even minor debate on golf as being an endurance sport or a or a power speed sports power slash speed more so in the last let’s say the last 5 10 years has has been the thing in golf but um where I’m going with that is have you found out uh does does the cool mitt benefit more of the power athlete more the endurance athlete or or have you found across the board it’s been helping everybody I will say um the uh on the strength side the way I look at it like the biggest benefits are less like intensity strength although you you know that benefit is more um anorobic endurance So you have this kind of like and I think is actually really good for golf right So um you’re able to maintain your power for longer by training like this and and basically condition yourself to have that that greater endurance You know it it almost seems and I want to touch on you you guys were at one of the tour champion the PJ tour championship Um yep And and it was was it would we say it was tested or used or Yeah I’ll give you a story on that So it was um summer before last actually and uh the two weeks prior in Memphis as Memphis will be It was swampy uh swampy hot and um Lucas Glover was leading that and uh was like you know um uh you could tell he was sweating by his cocky pants by that one Yes he looked like somebody dumped a bucket on him Nice bucket challenge I would have had to use different word in my squadron days but um yeah uh be more diplomatic So my I wasn’t actually watching it but um my phone was was uh blown up because what he was trying to do and they were showing it on guess it was CBS He was putting his arms in the ice bucket and uh to try to cool himself off I think somehow haven’t talked to Lucas um love to um but uh you know I think he found out about you know this the palms way to dump I think uh didn’t realize the basil constriction component to it um and so um it was a signature things all over for TV right guys were dropping like yeah it’s one of the bigger event signature yeah one of the big and so you know lead up to the tour final um and so after that I got connected to uh the folks at the PGA tour um in uh Ponavidra and uh got to the right people to their credit um you know we briefed them up they talked to my scientists we come you know gave them the the brief on how the science would work we could help them they made a decision in 48 hours uh to let us support them um and so uh that the week of the tour championships um we were there on Monday and we’re there all week um and we supported you know the players and everyone inside the ropes on that the way that that worked And again to their credit they did a good job of educating the players because when I got into this you know I uh happy to help for one but it was a big effort for us Obviously I want to get some PR out of it Um and uh there were restrictions on that because I’m a smart startup and I don’t have the money that Coca-Cola has to uh my my uh my logo everywhere Um so the way that we decided to do it was um there were cool mits on the tool box on the T- box of every third hole So 369 12 and 18 Um and so they did a really good job um you know Karen and her crew um uh of really uh giving all the players the information So going into I’m like I hope like one player uses this and gives me some feedback You know might get caught on TV Um and uh but they did a good job of educating all the players in their teams of what is going to be there what it would do We were able to be there on the the practice range the first few days talk to a lot of the players So I was hoping one player would use it give me feedback In the end you know we were kind of counting We were deployed throughout the the course Um 13 of 30 players used it throughout the you know the the four days of the tournament Again I was surprised that many use it because you know it’s they didn’t know anything about it They have their routines There’s only 30 players They weren’t backed up on the course you know very much as a you know huge ticket uh you know uh championship You know why mess with their success But it was pretty healthy for me It was hotter than hell in Atlanta So um uh they did actually use it Uh I did find interestingly uh that um uh based upon their routines the ones who were going to use it they would use it if they were first off the T- box in that environment They they’d hit if they watch another guy they had time to cool and they would cool and they walked down the fairway The guys who were second were concentrating on their shot were not going to you know break up their normal routine for that right Uh then they’d hit and they walked down the fairway Um so really good success with that For what it’s worth the caddies bunch of caddies got a great benefit from it The the security personnel wandering around in in the um should say wandering following them um uh in between the ropes and the cameramen who uh you know maybe had the toughest job during the day and 100 degree heat in Atlanta carrying a big old heavy camera They had a good use case out of it Um interesting tidbit that I found and I kind of knew it but um kind of resonated with me So you know my me and my team were there kind of just managing the effort throughout the whole four days Um and so we you know managed a tea box So I was at uh covering I think it was six and 18 I forget what it was but two tea boxes and so um and they had it set up whole there’s a cooler area um and they had uh misting fans and they had the cool mist there and so it’s hot I’m just standing there I’m sweating I went over to you know to manage my you know make sure my cool was ready to go Got in the missing fan and it felt good Like ah felt good I took a step to the right I’m still sweating and I felt like hell right So I’m like all right So that kind of like thing I was saying earlier like difference between feeling cool at the time and actually addressing the issue So a pair came through I went back up for myself used a cool mitt for just like two minutes Again didn’t feel as good as that cooling m that cooling fan did Um but uh I like walked away and I like I could feel that I’d addressed the heat I wasn’t sweating anymore and actually had a lasting impact I was there for you know a few more minutes I walked all the way like to the 18th um where I was doing that one and um it I still wasn’t sweating Now it’s hot I ended up sweating again but this kind of showed detail to me even though I knew all about this like how much different it is actually feeling cool for a second and actually addressing the problem you have a lasting impact and if you can have this there available um it uh you can do it throughout the day and kind of you know fight the heat the entire time and kind of make yourself more comfortable play better and all that What was the the uh next step or did you have discussions with the PJ tour after that to to get the feedback either from the players or from them and then has that discussion continued or it has continued We have some good feedback there’s some um you know there are some logistical business hurdles to get over to have them for what it’s worth you know um our current form factor um is like I said portable but not not mobile uh is not the perfect form factor for that you know walking environment you know it you know the caddies a a player might make his caddy you know carry it around but it’s another extra eight or 10 pounds with ice in it they’re not going to want to they’re going to be reluctant to do that um so Uh that being said it’s easy to use if you have a golf cart So uh you know for uh certainly me I’m sure much of your your uh your viewership uh can use it for that Um so I encourage you know them to uh at minimum you know tell their clubs to kind of reach out We’re working with a few clubs that are are introducing it um here in Orlando Um so our current one uh good use case for that for us where it the battery could go for uh six hours running continuously You can turn it off and on So turn turn it back on it’s not temperature right away So you can basically run it all day on a battery charge then overcharge it overnight or recharge it overnight The ice can melt but you know golf cart has ice typically So um uh maybe at you know maybe uh change out the ice once in a round Um but so that’s where we are with our current product And so our whole like business uh strategy on focusing on the elite athletes which we’ve had really good traction with um was to get it in their hands literally um get data from them get feedback Um ideally you know get some content and social proof out of them Um but as importantly like here’s what we’re seeing here’s what we like to see out of the product going forward And that has informed us for some new form factories that we have you know late stage in the product development pipeline Um one frankly is more for commercial uh users It gets rid of the ice component There’s some u some uh tradeoffs on that Uh be really good for a gym for what it’s worth Um and then what’s I think is probably going to be really uh explosive product for the golf community um is a uh uh a mobile version that does require a little bit of ice but you can kind of carry it around Um I don’t want to go too much into how we are consistent with the science to give up too many state secrets No I don’t want I don’t want you I won’t even I won’t even pry uh just to be clear like everything that we do we feel like we have you know the virtue of the institutional knowledge of what works best in this realm because we have the Stanford scientists you know as advisers I talk to them every every two weeks uh if not more often u and so they have done this for years and they’ve seen trial and error different stuff uh things that you know don’t work as well or do work so we’ve kind of like dialed it in we’ll continue to dial it and better But um you know one thing early on that they had with early technology was they had a vacuum seal uh to the the early devices The thought behind that was that would facilitate vaso dilation and that would accelerate the the u heat So so when you put your hand in the mitt there’s a vacuum seal is that in our old m there was a vacuum seal Okay In our current there’s not and I’ll tell you why So they thought that that vacuum seal was necessary to create the vasoddilation to then have this heat transfer at the maximum rate Subsequently they found that um when someone’s overheated they’re they’re basilated already So you don’t need that that boost from the negative pressure You’re not going to make it bigger What’s that You’re not going to make the the the arterial or the boost it more is the way I understand it Um and so uh so because of that it makes the device just a lot easier to use The early earlier versions they had you had to like you know kind of put your hand in this and seal it up It’s difficult to get in and out So like you know we can have you know this can be used Well think about a tennis player They’ve got you know 45 seconds maybe a minute on a changeover To do all that every changeover is not super realistic Here they can just put their hand in it Um and then uh then it’s good to go The other thing about it is you know um and people ask it because it’s logical and this this logic actually does work If you can have two hands that does double your surface area and will increase the rate of of heat extraction All our data is based upon uh you know one hand Um but uh we do have data show that does not quite double the rate of heat transfer but it does drastically increase and close to that Uh and so we do have this mobile version I mentioned will be able to have two hands um and uh future versions interface will be easier use of two hands So we’re continue to to strive to perfect this and I think I kind of alluded to it earlier Um heat is not just a problem for athletes It’s a problem for everybody at some at some point You know people in central Europe who there’s no air conditioning uh in this heat wave you know people you know it’s horribly sad People drop like flies People I think it’s right now doing the Hajj and Saudi Arabia It’s hotter than you know than Hades uh there and they’re you know they’re out there with uh no protection So we are you know our business plan is to uh start with the athletes and you know provide this performance benefit and for elite athletes and regular athletes and anybody who’s working out to to be their best uh you know uh serious athletes like high school travel baseball lacrosse all those sports soccer um but ultimately we’ll have form factors for also this the safety and wellness component and to that end we’re we’re working with a goodly number now of corporations who are looking for a solution for They’re workers who work in hot environments be it Yeah the first one that comes to mind would be roofers Yep I would have to think that that just the the insurance companies the roofers and um that that up I mean you’re not going to get worse than sitting on top of a roof in the middle of the day car carrying black or brown you know dark colored shingles uh which are made out of more or less from um materials that are that are going to basically attract the sun Radiate heat Yeah radiate heat Yeah And you’re up there and you’re working It’s not like you’re just up there sitting down It’s hot enough but you’re actually physical labor That’s I would think Yeah Sorry The the good thing about like that environment or really any environment um because it can starts working right away and anytime you have like a regular hydration break you can kind of like you know follow on the trails of what you know Gatorade has done to to create the hydration uh protocol um the uh if you have a hydration break um you know you can do this as well you can do at the same time put your hand in the cool met break and you’re going to get both benefits I do tell people I really and I I sincerely not just me uh as we used to say on Wall Street talk in my own book um when I was a young athlete uh Gatorade had been around for a while and there was no freaking uh water breaks you you were soft if you needed a water break both as an athlete or in the military like you know suck it up soldier um and Now you know my coach at Lauderdale High School would have been fired for not scheduling water breaks into our our uh practice regime right So um and I can make an argument that this you know thermal regulation uh solution is more immediately impactful than than hydration Um and certainly it could be you know concurrent to that So you know we see ourselves as becoming you know uh hopefully as part of the routine as your your water break is The only issue I could see in the golfing world and this is just because the golfing governing bodies seem to do things uh at times that go that they they say in the protection of the game I think it’s just in what they like to see and what they don’t like to see But where I’m going with that is if they if in particular the pros the the the tour pros the women the men if they start to see that they’re using these things and they’re the scores are getting noticeably better from those athletes that that choose to make this part of their program My only question would be and I’m curious if you if they had brought this up to you or this was in any discussions if those were confidential obviously you don’t have to answer and I’m not going to push but where would it fall in line of it’s a part of their equipment because you know golfers are only allowed 14 clubs excuse me at the tour level they’re allowed to have a caddy who is deemed part of the if the caddy touch steps on the ball or touches the ball is part of the the player that that it’s a penalty I would just be curious to find out where it would fall in the lines of equipment because in other sports like basketball or tennis you have a timeout You’re able to go to the sidelines you can get your Gatorade or your Power Eight or whatever they’re drinking You can utilize the trainers you know if you twist something you you can get it worked on But in golf you’re in the midst of of the activity even though you’re walking or stopping for the entirety of of the four four plus hours that you’re out there And I just would hate to see that it it really takes off in golf and then the governing bodies come in and say “Nah that’s really not allowed as a part of your equipment and and thus we’re not going to allow in the game of golf.” As crazy as that sounds I don’t think it’s out of the realm of the possibility of the people who are making those decisions I would hate to see it because as I think more about it it’s like well what’s the difference between sticking a from that standpoint What’s the difference between sticking a towel in a bucket of water and then putting it around your neck Right I I we now know that’s not the case as you’ve alluded to uh and and have discussed the science but from a ruling body perspective it’s like well well how is this any different Um but I would have to imagine in you know the NBA finals is on that that some of the players or some of the teams have implemented your your the cools in there or as you mentioned tennis I would think why wouldn’t every tennis player uh Jookovic uh uh um I can’t even think of uh the kid that just won the uh Carlos Alcarez French Yeah Alcarez I that that they wouldn’t be using these things every single time that they have a break television break uh call a timeout uh set change etc That it would only work to their benefit especially for the duration that some of these two three plus hours that they’re playing at a time would only make sense that that uh they would be using those So very good question and I’ll uh uh I’ll give you our experience on all that Um so ultimately this is a uh a non-invasive system that has your body work better I would say it’s you know if anybody wants to regulate it they need to start regulating you know presumably Gatorade or some kind of energy bar right Because you’re trying to give your body uh a better uh better energy uh in a very natural way Um mentioning what we’re involved in you know pretty much every pro sport Um have had no push back I’ll get to golf in a second No push back um on any of them ironically except for tennis Um and it hasn’t even been like for perform well uh had a few different and tennis has uh I’ll be diplomatic They have a pretty um uh unique governing body structure Yeah you could say that’s pretty a good way to say it Uh we did get okayed officially and we were at one tournament last summer Um but um the uh the you know as me again I I play tennis I mentioned that I’m good enough to know how bad I am but um I do enjoy me some tennis and you’re right it’s a really good use case for tennis Um the push back was more like business than than uh performance So the one thing was like they want to make sure there wasn’t a performance advantage for one player having it the other All right so give it to both of them which we did that one tournament Um and and then you know there’s like are you going to mess up all our sponsorships on the the uh the bench and is it you know too much maintenance or or whatever So um I think our the mobile version that I have coming out is going to you know solve all those issues They wanted us to pay a lot of you know sponsorship money to be involved because we work for what it’s worth I mean the PGA had the same issue What we did with that was they we had to cover up our logos on the devices that were there and then they again they were great to work with Um they did you know get CNN queued up to do a hit and we had some some good PR that they kind of generated for us Um but uh so tennis has been the one that’s been you know that have actually made the most effort to get traction with and still in that that process with different tournaments Um and on the golf um like after the PGA Tour Championships we went through the process through the USGA and we’re got a certificate of the technologist So perfect So and again I I don’t know about you know what they would say consider a piece of equipment or not I mean to me they’d have to consider a if the caddy is carrying a bottle of Gatorade This is you know ultimately the mobile version will have will be the same thing So yes I I can only imagine with the advancements in technology uh that at some point that you guys are going to get it to where it is at the the size of a of a smaller water bottle and obviously the mits would still be large enough to fit your hand in but that even the hoses could be smaller where a caddy can put it in their front bib give it to the player pop their hands in So this mobile version we have coming out is going to get rid of a lot It’s going to be a different way to do all that So no tubes it’s like a unitary version And then the the size the bigger the size the longer it’ll go on like one ice uh fill So the trade-off on size and how long it’ll provide the cooling But you know as long as there’s ice available like at a golf course um you know if it’s goes for it’s going to be designed to go for an hour uh on one ice um uh and once it’s melted and you kind of dump it out and put more ice in you got another hour So it’s going to just kind of go forever So to your point it’s going to be a you know not just for golf but for anybody in a mobile mobile area Uh it’s going to provide that cooling at hand You can kind of carry it around So it’s going to I we really think it’s going to unlock uh this whole market for you know much price is going to be way down too So uh unlock the market for people Um and you know to be fair this is you know one great thing about coming on something like this is um you know probably one of my main missions is to create awareness of the benefits of this because even people who you know some people I talk to human nature some people are going to be cynical uh I don’t believe it’ll work it’s a new category of a product so with that creates like some challenges on education and awareness also creates opportunity because it’s a new category that acts like every person Um and so there’s you know some work to do on getting it ubiquitous but to your point you know we are working with a lot of professional tennis players They’ve been using it in training um trying to get it to where they can use it But tennis is a you know a a home run use case for this because you’re uh they by definition almost they’re working in the hot environment They you know they they travel with the sun they say Um you know the the French Open was five and a half hours just about you know intense athletic in the heat Um and they have a chance to you know to stop every few minutes and you know for a minute minute and a half to do this So tennis is a really good use case Uh you know the golfers um uh it’s a better use case than I would have thought Like I said I uh uh Oh I I I could have told you that when I mean years ago when I first saw it and and heard of it I’m like “Oh my god where was this when you know when I was chasing uh playing professionally and you’re all through the South in particular in the summertime you’re like my god if I would have had that how much different it could have been.” Um especially from somebody who grew up in the northern hemisphere even though I’ve been here three decades you never fully adjust to 95 degrees and 90% humidity Yeah And and you know no matter how acclimated you are you get overheated Like my head on golf was like if I’m you know I’m playing and if I was doing this and I you know stumble upon a good shot on the 17th or 18th hole I’m not going to give cool credit I’m going to be like “Oh that was you know me right?” Uh but that being said people actually know how to golf are seeing the benefit of this and they do see you know they obviously know their bodies better Um and they can actually feel the difference like you know I uh I just like we said at the end you’re better cognitively better by motor skills less fatigued and it’s going to help you at the end of the game uh and the the round even if you’re in competition or if you’re like a big bet with your buddies on the uh 18th hole the the um we’ve covered pretty well the the the product and the features of it but uh as far as the business and the benefits to to athletes and and non-athletes uh daily workers and where and how and why but from a business standpoint point what what were some of the challenges uh that had to be overcome from concept to implementation Good question Um so you know it’s a startup business there always challenges um and it’s a you know it’s a um hardware product so there’s you know some manufacturing and all that so uh like I said I founded it I thought it was important to keep the founding scientists on board that was great um once we got some traction on the product and some uh indications of demand from some teams uh brought on some uh of my friends uh from uh we went to business school together at Wharton years ago So you know got them excited about the opportunity So you know um we’re now a team of guys kind of pushing it forward So the challenges have been you know there was um once we got a prototype of uh the first version uh starting trying to go to production there was a supply chain crisis globally that kind of uh delayed things Um as you said you know we had really great exposure on a lot of our media including on Dr Hubman Um uh if I could have uh which has been great if I could have like uh scripted it it would have been a little bit later when I had you know product for the market Um but uh so um there was that you know it’s the first product is more expensive than we want it to be Can’t really get around it There’s like you know uh the the prices we have to pay to get it going We I guess we do have lower price products coming coming on the on the uh on the horizon and with scale it’ll come you know substantially down in price um to be you know be more uh ubiquitous big challenge frankly is you know again this why this is so great uh get the word out there let people know because you know if I hadn’t come across this I would have never never known about uh you know this science and how it came about um so Um uh we got to get the word out We we’re working with the right people to kind of like have the credible social proof who can tell the story and people can you know oh uh I’m not an NFL football player but I like to you know go to the gym and work out Uh I see how this could work for me so I can you know get one unit or you know ultimately we’ll have uh uh a number of like you know the the vision is to have this like a cooling station in every fitness center So you go to your LA Fitness there should be a number of cooling stations where go in between sets like they go to water break they can have their cooling break Ultimately you know I think there should be uh one of these strapped on every stationary bike in a gym uh and kind of like with tubes and kind of like just do it while you’re doing that So if I’m in my spin class and I’m you know really trying to go hard I can go harder get you know get more fit um and either be go longer or go harder for that same time period Well I I would think that it if you could have it on on let’s say you had it on every bike stationary bike that that people you could have the system on there and any hoses that that would need to be attached but then everyone had their own individual mits So and then they could just plug in because the the the the cooling mist or the vapor or the water that’s running through is not touching body parts So it as you know as people get especially now that we’re coming out of co people are more prone to worry about germs if they have their own mit well they don’t have to worry about it because it’s not touching them it’s going through the system We do get that a lot and you know the you know the answer to that you know for a unit being used by multiple people you can wipe it down like you do any piece of gym equipment like a uh sanitary wipe is doing And then like the the black knit to be clear like the black mitt uh if you see it on our on our website um that is effectively there for structural integrity because what’s actually happens you put your hand on top of the the pad as a water flowing through it Um so a lot of people can and do take the pad out and they can kind of like do two hands with it Uh the reason the mid is there is that you can kind of have your hand and kind of wave it around It’ll adhere the pad to your hand Um and again our future form factor will kind of get away from that uh that dome and have a better easier use for two hands What what skepticism have you gotten from either coaches or athletes And I even if or if you have and if you have how did you overcome that Um good question So um some of the push back we’ve had and you know so most of our traction to date has been through earn media and word of mouth So there hasn’t been a lot of like outgoing sales calls Um and so generally people are are you know kind of know about the science and they’re they they’re receptive to it at minimum Um some of the the push back is um you know uh got to set I have to charge it up and got to be honest some sometimes I hear it’s like from teams like you have somebody that can do this but it’s like a bad excuse But um the uh it’s got to be set up I have to change out the ice um uh the uh the tubes are are too long sometimes you know which they can be actually reduced and some people do that so um a lot of the the push back I must say everyone who’s been able to use it um and use it in the appropriate manner I can’t think of one person who hasn’t seen the benefit be profile I can’t imagine and and some of the benefits from from the studies at Stanford and and even the the latest one I heard I I I thought it was on your website the tight end from the San Francisco 49ers Now some people will find that hard to believe 700% increase in in he was doing dips Uh so the um yeah he was doing dips over a period of time uh number of sets One other study they had uh which is really telling in my view it was a uh it’s also an NFL player doing 225 bench reps and he was doing um I think it was three I forget how many sets it was to be honest I should look it up Um but he was doing a workout of uh to failure of sets of 225 and he started off the the time frame he could do uh like 50 reps in this workout and then he cooled and went from like 50 to 60 over a period of 3 weeks and then they had him stop cooling to the same workout and he plateaued He didn’t gain or lose but he plateaued the sustainable gains and then they got him back on the cool for another three three weeks uh and he went from 60 to like 69 or 70 So it showed like you know this you know pretty significant volutric gain sustained and then able to get more gains So he’s not going to go to the zillion but um there is some level of uh the human body can’t go anymore but um that’s uh that’s kind of how powerful um it is from the the training um training side and uh so the other you know uh some of the push back we get and a lot of it’s more just human nature than than the product uh skepticism I get it I think I told you earlier like when I first saw the the results people had I’m like it doesn’t make any sense Well I think even the Stanford study when Dr Heler had it and if I if I can find it or if it’s still available I’ll I’ll I’ll have the link in your in the summary of the show but I think that was even pushing 176% increase across the board on average with the athletes at Stanford in a study Yeah In their study which weren’t necessarily even athletes these are like students athletic students So um yeah and uh you know what I will uh yeah I’ll I’ll I’ll embarrass myself with this story because again I was skeptical myself of you know these games I saw and uh so you know once I started I did a workout on myself and I’ll be brief but um so I do you know work out not particularly well but I um I do push-ups you know regularly So I did a baseline day of push-ups Uh I did six sets I didn’t have to do that many to be honest Um and so the first set uh I did 43 push-ups the first set Second set I did 21 and I plateaued at 14 I was not surprised at degradation of the second set I went to full failure It’s burning Three-minute break in between by the way Um I was kind of surprised I plateaued as high as 14 Uh for what it’s worth I did the six sets cooled for three minutes then I did a seven set I did like 24 after about 2015 So I kind of saw the benefits What I did feel is I I it’s interesting how how it works on your body When I was cooling that first time I still felt the burn in my muscles Um and felt a little bit cooler Me felt like you know you kind of feel a little bit of cold blood going up your arm It’s not super uh uh blatant Um but I could tell started doing that seven set like on the first push-ups I’m like I’m going to go longer And I and I did went from 24 came back three days later did the same workout same condition same time of day whatever Um and first set you know because it’s not uh cool not affecting it did the same 44 uh push-ups Um and then the second set instead of 21 I did 34 And then my plate at 25 instead of 14 And so and it was kind of the same feeling I still felt like that burn of of failure Um but like every subsequent set I could just tell I was going to go longer than I normally did And you know people said “Oh it’s a placebo whatever.” I mean if it’s a placebo you know God bless it right Um no kidding It’s almost like the fountain of youth especially once you get older Yeah Yeah I mean you can uh you kind of can like uh limit the the effects of aging by or at least be more productive in your workouts So limit the effect of aging I could just imagine golfers like “Oh man I can go from hitting 100 to 200 balls a day to 400 balls a day.” because they their visions are grander in their own brain that just because they’re going to hit more they’re going to get better But living in a mostly a retirement area I can attest to being around three decades of people who retired and thought that if they play golf four days a week their handicap would drop in single digits right And it went the other way and now they hate golf in life So it it might give you the the ability to hit more but you better focus on quality I was going to say they shouldn’t hit that many balls because of blisters but uh for what it’s worth I know this is like come across like this is a magic elixir for everything Um we do have baseball teams uh that will pitchers can have an issue with blisters and basically what happens is the sweat and the friction creates those blisters So they actually use coolman as part of their blister prevention protocol uh just for that very purpose So you can actually go and hit your 400 balls in the range uh with coolman and not worry about blisters as far as technology and everything is on apps nowadays It again and not not to pry into proprietary things that that maybe you guys aren’t ready to to launch it or have out yet or discuss is do do you see the technology and your product utilizing an app at some point where people can like I guess what I’m getting at is if there’s an adaptation to the cooling system So uh I as people start around that 55 50°ree mark as they get better and better and more acclimated does that have to come down to 50 to 45 No doesn’t work that way Your body the biology stays the same Um to on the uh the product development side we are one of the products we have which is more more call it premium version uh for the commercial market is built as a platform to uh to gather data from the hand and ultimately uh integrate with fitness apps which we think will be pretty powerful Yeah that’s that’s kind of where you know you see some of the guys on tour and some of the girls wearing the Whoop I don’t know how many wear a ring because that could affect their grip but that that’s kind of where that in my own mind that came from is how is your product being utilized with some of this technology Yeah So I mean when they do that they’ll be able to see like their um the Whoop or I do wear the Aura but um you can see a uh a lower heart rate um behavior Um you know this will have an ability to kind of uh kind of like Whoop has their strain index What we’re envisioning is having like a heat transfer index probably get it get a spiffier name than that but um where you can kind of say “Oh I did my workout on Tuesday and I uh dumped so much heat my heat transfer index was like a 75 and on Thursday it was a a uh 70 or something.” Um so we think that’ll be good Um and people do like you know validation of uh of their performance Um and uh so we do think that’s uh going to be a big advancement for folks Um and uh this will also have an indication as like kind of like you know how long you’ve been on it when you’re done Uh so it’ be kind of a smarter uh version of technology than we currently have To be clear that the um at least as far as I can foresee the mobile version we have which is pretty simplistic and unitary and just literally just takes you know ice and the the the device um it’s going to be difficult to incorporate a lot of techn a lot of user interaction technology in that but there’s a pathway we can get some more of that Has there been is it’s revolves around recovery Has have you guys done any studies as far as people wearing them while they sleep to to cool the body down You know you take for example the the eight sleep uh mattress cover that that lowers body temperature and core temperature while you sleep that has there been have you guys done any testing on utilizing trying to find a partner to do that now So the um the difference than a the way a does it and the way we do it and for what it’s worth um we have a lot of our uh customers do use this to aid their sleep baseball teams have you know weird schedules circadian rhythms are all over the place uh the tour to France teams uh in these hot you know hotels in the central France unair conditioned you know they fight over their cool messy use it for 5 10 minutes before they go to sleep so the current device again you’re kind of attached to it you you’re not going to sleep with it on unless you’re super stationary sleeper Um but uh it does show and I just got a a call two weeks ago with someone who has a uh particular medical condition that impacts her sleep and she’s used it and had huge benefits on that by just using it for five or 10 minutes before she goes to sleep So there is that we are trying to structure a good uh sleep study to to show that um and then ultimately have uh better form factors for to help people with sleep because it’s obviously a huge issue Helpfully Dr Heler is on the national sleep council uh so he knows the right people to kind of work with We’re trying to get the right study with the right product and the right people to do it Um separately uh there has been some work done around menopause and women with hot flashes Mhm Um that’s a little bit different um than what we’re doing because uh full disclosure never had menopause or hot flashes But um the uh it’s a transitory heat spike right So it’s going to go away eventually anyway might going on the stationary bike that’s a a not a transitory heat but if they can have it there while have seen uh anecdotal stories and Heler does have some data uh that it does work um if it’s there and available when you have the heat flash um the hot flash uh it’ll mitigate it kind of right away So we’re uh you know we’d love to help uh love to be the most popular man in America by uh providing that to uh to all the women suffering from that Yeah that would be great Just again as you get out of the sports realm into the general pop realm the the the applications seem to be exponential Yeah Let me tell you on that um and Sami have too many stories for you Um on the industrial side you know we do have some really great partners to your point with like roofers Love to help them out I think the reality is like uh I think it’s pretty uh bifurcated industry I’m not sure there’s a huge national roofer company for me to talk to Um but love to get the word out and have you know any uh general contractors whatever come to us Uh one of our partners and uh you have a PR release so I can tell them um English ship building is in uh Pasigula Mississippi Um and they have a huge complex uh I think they’re currently building 14 or 15 Navy ships Um and you know that’s like the triple lendy of overheating is like the swamp They’re in PPE and they’re in these unventilated uh compartments The welders are generating heat right Um and so last year they incorporated cool mitt or current cool mitt um in like their medical trailers So they’re going to see someone after they shown signs of heat distress um and um they get to that trailer They you know same protocol year after year So they shared some great stories with us including some data They did say that you know year-over-year and I can’t take complete credit all this was like the you know the big new thing they did 36% fewer heat related reportable heat related cases they had year-over-year just by incorporating this at the end of the line So we’re trying to work with them is with our future products get it out forward deployed to where these guys guys and women are overheating So get it to that welder Yeah Get it to them so they don’t get to the heat exhaustion stage And so you know their their environment So we’re learning a lot from industry like different environments like how to get the right product to them where and how they need it Better ideas their routines again hopefully pretty much everyone’s going to have some kind of hydration break so they can get it incorporated in that have that that big benefit With the oil patch we work with there’s like intrinsically safe uh requirements which makes sense They want things to blow up So we have to have intrinsically safe uh versions for them So we’re we’re getting there Um and uh again it’s a huge solution Um and uh a lot of folks are are suffering from heat So you know I need to get that solution out to them Yeah Especially with everything as we get back to the sports world everything’s about more training And now that there’s an issue overtraining but it’s like yeah we’re realizing we overheat now How how did now we got to find ways to cool the body off And obviously this is a fantastic way to do it Are we the best that there is Um the uh Oh that I had a what what it what your situation right now reminds me a little bit of is it did you ever read or or hear the book the checklist manifesto No that that that was written uh by um was it I want to butcher his name uh was it Ashwag Gandhi or Wag Gandhi uh a Indian doctor was tasked with coming up with if you remember back I think in the 80s that that there were numerous cases of people going in for amputation and they they would amputate the wrong arm or you know the left instead of the right and the right instead of the left Yeah So so he he he was tasked with figuring out how to solve this problem because it was running rampant in the medical industry and he basically he was I think he was an amateur airline pilot or was had licensed and he started taking their checklist and he took it into operating rooms One thing they found out on a on an offshoot somewhat was nurses were afraid to say anything to doctors because doctors had more or less a god complex and right they were allowed to speak up if they saw something happen So basic they created a checklist in the in the uh surgery room and then you know they looked at all these ind industries that were doing these things and they’re like they’re having phenomenal success and growth and that’s where I see a correlation with you you have this like you have this great product uh in a similar fashion to to very successful industries or businesses had a checklist and it was like it was so people couldn’t believe that this if you did these things then you would get exponentially better Yeah Exponentially better results right Yes And then the results kept improving and then they said “Well you did it in a very high-end hospital where they have all this money Okay we’ll go to the worst ghetto.” I think they were in Baltimore one of the worst ghettos that there was and all these shootings And they started implementing these things And like the rate of of health and and accidents was greatly diminished there too It’s like doesn’t matter You know money doesn’t affect your ability to follow what you’re supposed to do Well yeah You mentioned the aviation part I was immediately went where my head went because you know uh at just shy of a thousand hours in the A6 Intruder and uh you know every single flight go through the same even though doing a zillion times uh the same checklist a very disciplined way because you know sometimes you don’t do it someday you’re going to die right so um it’s important to have that that discipline and it’s like if you want your hospital to be successful like exponentially successful increase do this simple thing and it’s like if you want to play better perform perform better uh have your employees work better without physical exhaustion uh the ability to hurt themselves on a dangerous job site It’s all these things It’s like here’s something that is extremely cost effective going to increase production If you’re an athlete you’re going to train longer train better improve It’s just like such a no-brainer And that’s where I see the correlation between the two That obviously had taken off and that was 20ome years ago or longer Um I hope it doesn’t take you guys that long to just to to go viral Well uh get on this platform It’s going to accelerate it Pete Yes Um get the word out Um that’s the hope Yeah So I mean uh I will say uh um my ambitions are not uh timid on getting the solution out to folks You know we have uh a lot of good partners that we work with and uh we work with some really impressive uh people as it happens I found there’s a correlation to how good teams athletes are and then them finding us because they’re looking for the the the you know the edge for the athletic side Um you know we have over you know like I said 70 pro teams but you know the the baseball teams is like you know the ones that are the top of the standings last couple years are the ones that are reaching out and they’re doing it through their entire program Um and so we got a lot of things to accomplish It’s very small team now We’re you know we’re getting ready to launch these uh these two new products So you know we’re uh trying to polish off the the fundraising for that But once we get that going you know uh I literally think you know the sky’s is the limit for this cuz uh like I said you know uh it’s not just athletes not just golfers but we can certainly help golfers It’s that you know I can you know literally touch nearly every every person out there Yeah And it makes a huge difference It it’s not only the science but it’s common sense And it for anyone again we’ll have a oneclick link to your website People will be able to see the the results not and it’s not just like these oneoff n equals 1 It’s like across the board exponential 170 plus percent improvements published uh papers you know peer review major major I mean with literally like you know Dr Heler is a legend at Stanford University Um and um so and that’s part of the thing we’ve all every time I turn on the TV been trying to trying to be trying to uh be sold something that you know there’s trying to take my money Um it’s uh the American way take my money But um you know this uh you know just has such a a perfect pedigree of the science again starting from a a big problem DARPA is trying to to solve for their military people uh and they have you know obviously a great pedigree of creating you know uh transformative technology um and so it’s you know legit scientists with I mean I can’t tell you how honored I am to work with these brilliant scientists as part of our team um and solving a big problem in in a really unique non-invasive easy to incorporate way it’s not intrusive it’s not generally be incorporated in almost any routine you have um you know I always tell people like you don’t have to do a separate cool mitt workout to do this Just incorporate it in your normal workout and you’re gonna get a benefit You don’t have to do the three minutes that we suggest You can do it for a minute You’re gonna get the benefit So just well if you’re in the workout and you’re taking three minutes between your uh sets there you go Yeah And some people take a minute Do do it for a minute Just have it there And you know it’s easy enough to have there Um and like I said our current version is is really delivering you know the goods for our partners Um and uh you know we kind of think it’s the gold standard um for this There are you know there are other uh competitor products coming out there um that uh you know we’re aware of We also are you know again with the institutional knowledge that we have from Stanford We kind of know some of the the uh form factors that limit the effectiveness a little I’ll never you know trash someone else’s product but um we kind of know some of the different design features that you know we’ve tried you know thought of them or we chose not to do them put it that way for for a reason So um uh we’re excited about the technology you know uh building out this category is all good So it’s good to have other folks in the space Um so as we’re winding down what what would be one thing that uh you wish more people understood about cool mits Couple um people think like oh uh you know it’s not hot out I don’t need it Um uh whenever we have hockey teams that use it so you know if you’re generating heat you’re you’re going to need it Um people think it’s um it uh and it doesn’t I don’t feel it right away So it’s not you know it’s not working Um so if you’re if you’re quantifying your workout you’ll see it right away It’s crazy that way But if you’re a worker and it will feel you’re not going to you necessarily feel you have to have some level of faith that it’s working You know I the analogy I give people are two One is like you know you know you’re supposed to hydrate You don’t necessarily feel like you’re jumping out of the gym after you hydrate right Does feel a little bit better It’s not like you feel that much different but you know you’re going to benefit from it The other thing is people you know have cholesterol problems Uh you don’t you know feel that but you take your your medicine you know ultimately you do feel better So you got to have you know some level of like faith in the science and and you know what these folks have discovered Um and so those are kind of the things I want to let you know people know Um again full disclosure when I first heard about it I was skeptical like this can’t be true to this magnitude and then you know had the benefit of learning more for one from the the founding uh founders um and then now working with you know now it’s you know we have a couple thousand customers get like these great stories all the time sometimes they they teach us stuff like we have one uh football program college football program um and uh they use it they’re in the south um and they use it regularly but they uh they mandate their players that have ADHD and take medicines to use it like every break because I didn’t know this um and even Heler never come across it but you know the ADHD uh drugs elevate your temperature so it gives you less of a margin so you get to that that uh that ceiling of performance so they mitigate that happening so they can kind of you know uh uh manage your performance better so you know we’re learning a lot from you know different use cases from our customers which customers which is great that’s awesome I think we’ve covered just about everything that uh I mean we could go on in deep into the science rabbit holes forever But uh well I got better people talk about the science than me I got uh I think at least we we’ve introduced it to to the golfing community at least I hope so and um people can can again we have oneclick links to your guys all your stuff Yeah they can reach out I mean uh they can reach out to me directly gregnet.com I can’t you know uh I’ll reply quickly but not immediately Um and we have a lot of information we can share uh you know beyond what we have on the website which I think is pretty instructive You know can only uh put so much on a website but um uh yeah we’re uh you know we uh it’s my mandate to you know execute this plan to get uh this solution out to as many folks as possible Where is you would tell everybody your the name of your website Uh so it’s uh cool.com So cmi tt.com at 2T’s and I’m Craigcoolmet.com and then uh Instagram Facebook Uh yeah so we’re uh annoyingly uh most of our activity is on Instagram It’s real cool Um annoyingly there was a uh a Russian squatter on the cool mitt um that when we first started uh so uh we went with real cool And are you speaking anywhere you got anything uh uh that you’d like to tell anybody about or anyone from from the company’s going to be speaking or lecturing or No nothing on the hopper Dr Heler was just at a sleep um conference Um we uh no current engagements but uh you know we’re always happy to get out there and spread the word Yeah And when you’re going to do it let us know We’ll push it out the best we can for We don’t have millions of followers by any means but it’s always nice to to be able to help somebody out for coming on the show and Yeah Perfect Really appreciate time Pete I love what you’re doing I saw like the uh the um the library of folks you’ve had on this and you know I’m uh honored to be you know part of that uh that guest list It’s been very fun and uh we’re coming up on 200 episodes It’s hard to believe it’s been over six years now but wow The one of the best parts is meeting the wide variety of of different things that people do in and around golf It’s it’s very cool Yeah that’s awesome Awesome Thank you Craig Hang out just a minute everybody Thanks for checking us out We will see you all next time All right everybody Thank you so much for listening to today’s show If you enjoyed it you can find more information on today’s episode and other topics at golf 360.blog There you’ll find the show notes and links links related to this episode as well as any other episode that we’ve done so far to date If you’re interested in improving your game and would like to learn more from yours truly by taking a private lesson a half-day or multi-day school club or putter fitting you can reach me through the blog site or by email [email protected] So some of you may be asking what is the golf paradigm All you have to do is click on the homepage while on my blog site to discover how you can start playing better than you ever thought possible Or you can simply sign up again on the blog page for my instructional videos where I give regular tips on all areas of the game to include the swing club design and fitting health fitness and nutrition the mental aspects and equally as important the integration of all those things together I’m also on social media and you can find me at the Golf Paradigm That’s P A R A D I G M And I’m on Facebook Instagram and Twitter And don’t forget to subscribe to my YouTube channel also under the same name The Golf Paradigm Facebook is usually the best way to reach me for questions and or comments and I look forward to hearing what all of you have to say This podcast is brought to you in part by Old South Golf Wings A short ride across a bridge from Hilton Head Island is one of the area’s finest golf courses and a hidden treasure Set up on towering pines and ancient oaks with sweeping arch vistas truly makes Old South Golf Links a one-of-a-kind golfing experience The Clyde Johnson design was named one of the top 10 new public courses when it opened And it also takes full advantage of the natural beauty of the Low Country Old South is a fun and unique challenge for 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