We had a great time chatting to 3-time winner Richie Ramsay! On top of a successful career on the European Tour, Richie was the first Brit to win the US-Am in nearly a century, as well as playing Walker Cup. Fascinating getting to hear first hand about the ups and downs of life on Tour
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Hello and welcome back to the Cookie Jar Golf podcast. I’m your host today, Sam Williams, and I’m joined by Cal Wing. Hello. And Bruce Fitzpatrick. Hello guys. Thanks for all your listens uh and all your comments. Don’t forget you can get in touch with us on Cookie Jargolf and that’s on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. Now, today we’ve got a really exciting episode. We were lucky enough to catch up with Richie Ramsey to hear about his career. And Richie’s played on European tour now for 12, 13 years, but also before that, he’s got a really glittering amateur career. And we really enjoyed hearing about some of those stories as well. Richie was the first person to win the US amateur from Scotland in over a century. You’ve got to go all the way back to 1898 when Finley Douglas won that. And it puts him on a trophy with some of the game’s greatest players. people like Francis We met, CB McDonald, Bobby Jones, Tiger, Jack Anie, you name it. And and it’s a real real moment in history. He’s played Walker Cup golf. He turned professional back end of 2007 and has enjoyed, you know, kind of several wins on tour, winning three times with in Morocco. He’s won the South African Open and he’s won the European Masters. What what was really interesting in this pod and you know we hope you guys enjoy it is hearing about kind of Richie’s passion and dedication to the sport and and also his mental fortitude in terms of dealing with setbacks and challenges and how he stays present in the moment throughout some of those tournaments. It’s a really cool listen. Uh and without further ado, over to the pod. Hope you guys enjoy. Watch this. [Music] [Applause] [Music] No way. [Applause] [Music] [Applause] So, Richie Ramsey, welcome to the pod. Thanks, guys. Thanks for having us. How you doing? How’s uh how’s life in lockdown first and foremost? Um, it’s f it’s fine. You know, I kind of um just trying to make the best of it. I think you spend a lot of time when you’re a golfer, you spend a lot of time away from your family and away from home. So, if there’s one profession there where you could see an advantage of it, it’s probably in golf, you know, being at home, spending time with the family, almost readressing that balance between work and life. Um, unfortunately, I don’t get to see my friends, but spend time with my daughter um is brilliant. seeing her like grow every day and trying to learn stuff with her and just go out and play with her, you know, go on walks and um just discover a bit more about her because you’re away so much. Yeah, we’ve kind of, you know, most of the people we’ve talked to through lockdown all said the same and it is and it’s the same, you know, whatever your job, right? It’s just I think people find a very different way of kind of um almost you know just operating everything seems a little slower people enjoying a lot more time with family and I think that’s all kind of um really healthy. We always like to kind of kick things off Richie just by understanding people’s route into the game and where it all started first and I presume there’s quite a heavy amount of golf played in your junior years and around Scotland. Would you mind kind of telling us a bit about how you got into got into the game? Yeah. So, when I was younger, probably like three or four, I was pro I say like most kids, but I had, you know, the plastic golf clubs in the back garden, um, hitting a ball around and and that was just an activity for me. It was another sport. I played numerous sports when I was younger. And the older I got, the more football was was the sport that I wanted to play. Um, and I would, my grandfather was the person who would take me out, I would go to the nineholeer at Hazel Head, which is Aberdeene, just public nine holler and and go and play there with him on the odd weekend. Um, and then I started getting a bit older and um started to realize that football there was no future in it for me. Um, and then you start to maybe practice a little bit more at the golf and you win a few handicap competitions and you’re like, “Oh, my handicap’s coming down. This is quite nice. I get, you know, get some trophies at the end of the year at the prize given and start applying yourself and then it keeps going from there.” And my grandfather was always the one who was behind that. Um, he was the the driving force. he would take me out and go and practice and um you know he would cut down clubs and wrap tape around them. Um and he was always the one that talked about it and would take me up. So that was the he was he was the main person and he’s the reason why pretty much I’ve accomplished what I’ve accomplished to this day. So, you know, I went from Hazel Head, started getting my handicapped down, joined Royine at 15, which was, you know, first time I’ve been a member of a private club after playing a public course and Hazel was a great public course built by Alistair McKenzie. Yeah. The number one course. Uh, I loved it, but um I needed to play more, especially during the the winter when it was on Winter Greens and Hazel Head and Royal Everine was the best step. And it was an education. It was like, oh, you know, playing Hazel Heads got to the point where it’s quite easy. You started to play Roy, I was like, oh, I’m going to need way more shots, way more shots. You know, there’s a lot of there’s a lot of T- shots there can fill you with fear. Absolutely. And that and that was just an education my and because of that education my golf game started to move pretty quickly um in the right direction. Got my handicap down and then it was a case of really you know I remember getting my first letter from I was about 15 because it was letters back then. It wasn’t emails or anything like that. And uh you know it was like every knew it was coming you got a team picked your first letter and you see the you know you looked you know it’s like remember it was like Steven Brown uh Steven Bucklay Scott Jameson George M those guys and my name was in there. So that was the first time I got selected for Scotland and it was a you know it’s like butterflies in your stomach when you’re opening that letter and you get the call and then you start playing and then I was fortunate to go under 18 under 21 men’s team in 2004. I played for Europe um down in New Zealand with a unbelievable team we had that year. It was like uh Rory Maroy, you Julian Gary, um a ton of brilliant players and then played Walker Cup in 2005 and and then through those last few periods um had a stint in America for a year and uh I had four years at university which was some of the best times of my life at university. They were just incredible. It’s amazing, isn’t it? And in hearing you talk it through that it’s like you go from 15 joining Royal Abedine to next thing you know in the story we’re kind of Walker Cup 2005 you’re like whoa hang on. So you know where where along that kind of like timeline if you will did it sort of did the sort of penny drop and thought you know what there’s there’s definitely a living in this like I I’m good enough to do this with the world’s best. I would say the first time was when I was 15 and I’m good friends with now. He doesn’t play but he played on on tour. George Money. So I played I think we just turned 15. I played under 16s. Maybe I was 14 um under 16s. It was called the Douglas Gillespie under 16s. It was like a major. It’s like the masters for a 14y old and um playing at London links and it was the first time that I’d played a national competition and I and I kind of feel felt the nerves a bit but I ended up finishing second and I kind of walked away from there and you might hear it a lot of time from certain professionals is that sometimes there’s times in your life where you’re actually better not winning. You’ll learn more by, let’s say, losing, but coming close to something. And I learned way more that week than by winning it. I realized that I could I could win a national title, but it take perseverance and take dedication um to apply myself because I didn’t feel like I played my best. I still felt there was a lot more in the tank. And then I went on and I didn’t win it the next year, but I became one of the best under 16s. And then from then on it was like a competition that was like I’ I’ve got to get better. Like I don’t like people, you know? It’s like when you go from 16 to under 18s and it’s like, oh, I need to get even I need to move up the ladder quicker. How do I get better and compete with these guys who, you know, when you move from under 16 to under 18, that’s quite a big leap because it’s a big time where you’re developing physically. And I just managed to bridge those gaps by just working hard, finding people that were good around me that helped me and um applying myself. And I think probably also enjoying the competition. Like I love the competition element of it. Like if someone says, “Oh, you can’t do that.” I’m like, “No, I’ll find a way to do it.” Um, and that that I’ve always had that I think people around me call it stubbornness or um or uh sort of self will to go out and try and accomplish something. Um so it’s the common denominator, isn’t it, across all great athletes, as you say. It’s that that stubbornness and that grit. Um talking there about you know going to the University of Sterling and and your four years there. Am I right in thinking prior to that you went to the States on a scholarship? Was that quite a big experience for you and kind of open your eyes to how they do things across the states and what the sort of standard of of high level amateur golf would be like as you were kind of going up those those age routes. Yeah, I think I mean I was at the end of school. I had options to probably stay in Scotland, but just like when you’re 18, you know, you want to go out and see the world. And it’s like, you know what, this I thought to myself, this may not work out because I’m I’m quite good at planning things out. So, I was like, it may not work out, but I want to go and try it. I want to sort of take it off the box. And I went out there. It was only a junior college and I’m not from a background where I could afford to go to a D1 school unless I had everything paid for me and I wasn’t going to ask my parents to stump up that money knowing in my mind that I might only be there for a year. So it was a good way of experimenting and seeing what was out there and also like growing up growing up in your mind growing up to you know going to a different country. I didn’t know anybody different way of life and then competing with trying to compete with some of the best golfers out there. But the I got there and it just it just wasn’t for me. It didn’t suit me. I couldn’t do what I wanted to do, which was, you know, I wanted to be against the best and I was the number one player on my team, but that didn’t bother me. Like, I wanted to be the number one player in the nation, not the number one player in the team because I I knew like down the line that was going to hurt me because just like I talked about when you move from under 16 to under 18, you play with better players. So you you get better yourself. And I wasn’t playing with better players. I was playing with the the best players in community college. And with all due respect to them, that wasn’t the guys that were going to make it. The guys that were going to make it were all D1 schools. Um, and that’s when I took the decision, speaking to my parents, speaking to my coach, that I would come back, I would go to Sterling. And my goal was to rebuild my swing so that when I turned pro, ideally when I finished university and had a degree behind me, that I would have all the skills and the best chance to make it as a professional. Um because I knew that Sterling had all the resources. The key element was hard work and discipline. And I was like, I can do that all day. As long as you give me the resources, I’ll go out and I’ll like knock the wall down for you. Don’t worry about that. I was like, if if you need someone to apply themselves, I’m your man. Just if you can help me out with things like expenses or things like, you know, just having a gym. You give me a gym, a range, um, a place where I can practice my putt in, like, see you in 10 hours. I’ll do that. That’s great. You you mentioned uh your coach there. Is that Ian Ray who’s I think he’s still still is the Scottish national coach. Um and it’s it’s a great story because I understand that you’re still working with him now 20 years later and it’s it’s a story that’s actually not that common it seems with professional golf. There’s so many guys who kind of go from swing coach to swing coach week in week out. Um it seems like he’s been a very, you know, important influence on your on your development as a player and and you know, kind of allowing you to developing that relationship of trust has been a key part of your success and continued success on the tour. Definitely. I think I’m not a I’m not an overly trusting person. Maybe that’s me being Scottish and pessimistic for you then, Richie. But uh no, Ian’s been fantastic. He’s just he’s like he’s an integral part of me or my success, no doubt. Um, but he’s integral in me being a better person and sort of growing a bit because you know when you’re younger you think you know everything and he sort of opened my eyes a little bit to what I needed to do and and he’s always on hand to talk to and cuz there’s times when you’re look there’s times when you’re you’re kind of you dip down and you feel like you’re in a bit of a a trough and you’re like how do I get out of this and He’s always the person that would call and be like, “I’m struggling with this. What do you think?” You know, he would throw a few ideas up. And he he he knew that I would take his ideas on board and come up with a plan. And he was just that person who’s always there, take the phone call, give an honest opinion, was wanting to help me because he wanted me to see to do well, not because he was going to get anything out of it. he’s he’s like a good person and just wants you to do well. I mean, that’s it sounds the most obvious thing in the world, but those people are sometimes really hard to come by and um he that’s why he’s still my coach basically because I trust him with everything he does and I trust him as a person as well, not just as a coach. I trust his opinion on stuff that’s got nothing to do with golf. Um because he’s generally a good good person and he would run rings around half the guys who are on YouTube coaching golf lessons which I find quite um amusing. Yeah, there’s just so much crap out there, isn’t there? If we’re going to be really honest, there’s just so many conflicting views. And I mean, you know, apart from yourself, Richie is obviously, you know, the resident expert. Bruce, you’re kind of a bit of a student of the swing, aren’t you? And kind of, you know, there’s just so much out there on social media nowadays. And I guess that kind of confuses a lot of young kids now. I suppose, you know, maybe 20 years ago that that wasn’t around. It certainly wasn’t as prevalent. But now it kind of almost creates an unnecessary level of conflict in in people’s minds, I think, with the swing that you maybe wouldn’t have had, you know, back then. And I don’t know how that plays out in practice, but it definitely feels like, you know, it’s something, isn’t it? Yeah, it’s very easy to, you know, like, oh, just I’ll just because because you’re a golfer, obviously you flick through Twitter or Instagram and and something will come up and you’re like, oh, click on that. You see a video and you’re like, I don’t understand that. How’s that working? And then maybe you’re on the range the next day and you try it out and it’s it’s like if you don’t catch yourself suddenly you’re you’re four weeks down the road and you’re like yeah I’ve been I’ve been trying a tip that someone from the internet has been on you know and Ian Ian’s always brilliant. He always tells me like that the thing he uses is he’s like if you if you’re in a car, he always says and you want to go from Aberdeene to if you want to go from Edinburgh to Aberdine, he always say how how do you get there? I said well go out the road go Queens Ferry across fourth road bridge straight up the motorway. Okay. Okay. So you know how to get to your destination. Yeah. Because I know I know the path. I know where I want to go to. Okay. So, like I say to golfers, okay, where are you at at the moment? Like what’s your what’s your start point, which is obviously Edinburgh. Where do you want to get to? I want to get to Aberdine. Okay. Well, how do you know how to get there? Well, I want to do this, this, and this. Okay. Well, you’ve got to stick with that path because just like with the the the road, if you veer off the road, you suddenly end up in Sterling, you know. Yeah. And you’re like, “Oh, I didn’t want to get here. Oh, my swing’s all over the, you know, my swing’s all over the place. And it’s it’s it’s a simple thing to remember, but it h it’s happened to me, and I’ve had to catch myself, Ian, a lot of the time, you know, he says like we stick with the same stuff. We just fine-tune it, fine-tune it, fine-tune it. There’ll be stuff that will crop up, but generally it’s the same defaults. I’ll go back to him after a four-week break and he’ll say to me, “What do you think?” Can I say, “Well, it’s the weight, isn’t it? The weight goes back onto the right side when I set up.” Yep. What What about the hands? The hands stay back as well. They should be further forward. Okay. Do you turn very No, I’m not turning very well. And it’s like the same things a lot of the time. Um, will he uh will he travel on tour with you or do you tend to sort of do mostly work sort of when you’re at home? Um, I do the lion share of work at home. I’m I’m a big believer that, you know, being on the range or or getting out, we’ve got that time and and when you’re at a tournament, it’s quite time sensitive. There’s a lot of other stuff you have to do. Um he’ll come on the road because he wants to see how I think at a tournament and how I maybe play at a tournament. So, he’ll walk around and you know, the proof’s in the pudding. You can practice as much as you want, but when he’s walking around, you can see what I’m doing in a tournament and the way I’m thinking and shot selection and we can discuss it afterwards. Um, but generally we spend most of the time away. And by that point, like say the Sunday before a tournament and I’m flying the next day, I should be pretty much green light. I should know all the stuff on my swing and I should just be playing to score. Yeah. I shouldn’t be sort of um my head muddled with a ton of swing thoughts, not sure what I’m doing, wondering which position my hands are in. It should all be locked in by then and you’re kind of ready to go. Yeah. You’re just trying to get yourself in that kind of We were We had a an episode recently with a kind of mental coach Gio Valiiente and it’s kind of described as flow state. There’s a number of different uses of the term, but that’s kind of where you want to play your golf, right? You want to do your your stuff off the course and then kind of get there. You kind of just it’s about kind of getting yourself in the zone to to perform. Um, you’re obviously massively diligent in terms of the way you approach it. You kind of mentioned London Links there and I think you came back, didn’t you, a couple of years later and then won the Scottish ARM at London Links, I think, unless I’ve dread that and the Irish and then that kind of led quite quickly into the Walker Cup. Ju just talk us through the Walker Cup like how was that? I looked at the side you guys played against back in 2005. It’s just I mean it’s scary when you look at the names that are on there. Yeah. I mean well we had a good team. They had a good team. Um I remember I don’t know it was it was it’s a difficult one for me because I felt I made the team on merit but I didn’t think I was if I was honest valued by the selectors really. Um, I didn’t feel like, um, not that they didn’t want me to play, that’s not the right way, but I only played two Forsomes matches. I didn’t play a singles. Um, I don’t know if they rated me if I was honest, even though my performances said I I should have been in the team, which I which I was. Um, I mean, it was a I I it was a great week, don’t get me wrong. It was a brilliant week and the team we had was exceptional. Um, some great characters in there. Probably the last that sort of Lloyd Saltman, Ollie Fisher, Ree Davis. Yeah, Davis. Um, Gary Wilson and and Nigel Edwards who are kind of two, for one of a better term, you know, career amateurs who who’ve staged amateurs their whole career. But um yeah, it’s interesting because the Walker Cup, I guess, you know, it has the two it has two singles matches in there, isn’t it? It’s quite a very different structure from the the professional equivalent. So, it is uh yeah, it seems like a quite a big oversight on the selector’s part that you didn’t that you didn’t play a singles match. It was I mean, we had a we had a great team. They had a really good team. Um we played I remember it was me and Lloyd because we had two Scottish guys in there so we played together. Lloyd like obviously like record speaks for itself like unbelievable talent, lovely guy, got along really well. Um we played Brian Harmon and Anthony Kim which were which was I mean they were Anthony Kim was like he was serious serious player probably I mean talent wise just off the scale. Uh Brian Harmon always thought Harmon was as being very underrated. He’s done well as a pro, but um really good lefty. Um a ton a ton of guys at Putnham who played Ryder Cup at Kelk Manor. Um boys she had in the team. Uh JB Holmes JB Holmes in just so far it was frightening. Um I mean like this was this was 07. I mean, he was that week in Chicago was warm and guys were hitting it long, but he was hitting it like 3:45. Wow. Like, wow. I remember one of the one of the holes, Chicago Golf Club, and I probably at the time didn’t have the appreciation for the course, but there was I think it was about 14 and 15. 14 is about 361. And most guys were hitting like driver lob w. So it was like driver 50 60 yards. He was hitting it down there just short of the bunker as in like oh I’ll just pitch on the green. And then the next hole there was a walkway. He was the only guy to hit it over the walkway. People walking over it at the time. This ball’s just flying past. He was just hitting the out of sight. Um, was he still quite a slow player back then or was he was he, you know, fairly brisk player as an amateur? I I would never say he’s brisk. That’s I think he’s I think he’s uh he might have aggressed a little bit in his his years on tour. He seems quite um deliberate is the word I use. Dip diplomatic. Yeah. Yeah. But also you don’t even see the distance like I mean you watch on TV guy you know hits a long way but he’s got quite an abbreviated swing hasn’t he wouldn’t you know of the names on that list and you said like you know this guy was an absolute bomber in the Walker Cup it um yeah I mean it was you know you don’t don’t always think about that it was just a brilliant week there’s lots of great things I remember went a boat ride all around Chicago uh went some really nice restaurants remember staying in the like I still remember the bed like got me and Reese were rooming together and we walked in the room and you had all like the bags like the rider cup bags and you’re like you saw your name in the bag you’re like oh this is cool and then the bed was like probably the comfiest bed I’ve ever slept on the hotel and that we’re staying in town just like the whole camaraderie like I think every got along pretty well on the team uh and we all wanted to win were all pretty we would enjoy like a dog fight you know we wanted we’re all people who you wanted to have like on the team you felt we’re going to do something when their game was down and it was it ended up coming down to one putt and N hit like a great putt. I remember watching it from the side of green. Honestly thought it was in and it just moved just shaved by and then that was the that was the match. But um it was a great week. I I’ll kind of never forget it. Um but just as good was playing, you know, playing for Scotland, playing like the homer nationals. We won three home internationals in a row. Um, we won, what else did we win? Playing the European uh won the European under21 Scottish team in in the island in Dublin. That was like 2001. That was a brilliant week. Just so many like good memories of playing in teams. And that’s the one regret I probably have with professional golf that I’ve never played in like a sevy trophy or um anything like that. And I I just love like that team environment. Still plenty of time. Yeah, I know. I know. It’s on the bucket list. I guess on that back to Sterling quickly. How did you as a managing golf there were you able to sort of still play for Scotland and whilst everything else were you still doing that at the time or? So I sort of dovetailed between the two and and Ian was the national coach. Um and they just leazed and it was a kind of sometimes I’d play for university but like the bigger picture was listen you know we could we had a great university team. M you know you could send not our second team but not far off our second team out and they would win nearly every match. So, do you want me to come and play for the university? Or do you want me to go and represent Scotland? Cuz, you know, if you can put in second team and still win and have me go out and play for Scotland and Scotland or going and winning maybe your home internationals or winning a a tournament, then that’s that’s better for you. Yeah. To have that. And it’s and no doubt it’s better for me because again, it comes back I’m playing against better players. I’m going to elevate my game. And it was what I enjoyed. It’s it’s that more that competitive nature. It’s um it’s what I kind of uh what I most enjoy about the golf aspect. Then moving on to 2006, which was the uh massive US amateur title. That was um that was something I think I was 2006. I think I was 16. And I remember when that came through that sort of that was still I would probably be into golf playing taking it half seriously at least for three years at that time. And I remember that um remember your win over there. I remember seeing it come through in sort of I think National Golfer was one of the uh big magazines at the time. And that sort of certainly for guys I was playing with really put the US amateur on the map for all the sort of UK fans if you like. It was huge, wasn’t it? Yeah. I mean it was Even yeah, for me I mean it it wasn’t really a thing that international guys went and played. Yeah. Um but the previous few years because of the way the funding works um people were allowed to go over there and qualify and it was funded. Um, and then they’d had a great rule which was full credits to the USGA is that if you made a Walker Cup team, you had a two-year exemption at the US amateur, which obviously again you want to play against the best people. And we quickly realized that like if we all go over as a team, which we ended up doing, um it was going to be the best way of of of us doing well because you’re in a again it feels like although you’re quite an individual, you’re in a team environment. Um rooting for each other. Yeah. And just going for each other, having someone at night to go and have dinner with. And we’re all put up by host families that were quite close to each other. So it was a really good atmosphere. Lloyd was playing Ole Reese. Um Steve Tylut was there and then you had a couple of extras like I think maybe Pablo was playing maybe Alejandro. Um, and then you had the guys that you’ll know. Um, age group like Billy Horshel was there, web, Ricky, um, trying to think basically all the guys that were around about that age group were all playing. Um, so it was quite cool because it was the best of the best. Um, and televised, isn’t it? Yeah. Yeah. Scotland is like a blimp going overhead and it’s it’s you know it’s the full they don’t they don’t spare any expense and it’s a it’s it’s played generally over a US Open US USPGA type golf course I think at the time Hazel team was the was the longest course they ever held a US amateur on up till that moment it was playing something like 74 75 I think at the at the time so was I mean was that as a test. It was something that you know you maybe weren’t as used to coming from playing all a lot of your competitive golf in Europe or how how did you approach it going into the week? It was it was definitely and this is where the sort of the tide turns for the what I feel like the GB players is that that’s what the American guys play on not week in week out but that style of course and of course that style of course is what we play on tour. So it’s an easier transition whereas you know we had to adapt it a little bit more. Fortunately we had been out there and played a good course the week before and got a feel for sort of faster greens. Um, you know, thicker, rough around the greens. Um, and the setup was was first class. There was no, although there was people, there was ropes at the side. So, literally, if you hit it in the rough, I mean, it was dead. It was like, unless you got a exceptionally good lie, you’re not getting to the green. So, I was like, this is this is going to suit me. Like, I’m just going to head down the fairway and start gaining a ton of strokes. I read some crazy stat that from the final. Um I may maybe I’m skipping ahead a little bit here because it’d be great to hear about some of the earlier rounds, but apparently in the final you missed like one fairway or something crazy over the the 32 holes you played. Yeah, the fairway I think I missed. Sorry, the the final I think I missed um two fairways and 34 holes and I think it was two greens or something like that. And and it’s like if you like I say if you miss a hit ridiculous. How can you play against that? Probably not getting to the green. Even till this day probably with regards to what was on the line and pressure it’s some of the best golf ability that I had at the time that I played. So it was like I was maxing out like I just I just felt really good and I was only I think only was only ever down three times in the whole tournament. And every round seemed to build my confidence. And wow, I said to someone our week like after about couple matches, four rounds to go, I was like, you know what, someone’s going to win this week. And you know what? There’s there’s a chance it’s going to be me and I might as well bring that attitude and that kind of um mindset to to each game. It’s going to help me. Um and I just had a clear game plan. I was like, I’m just going to grind every day down because That was my stats in the final. But to be honest, apart from one other game where I played okay, the rest of the games I really played great and I got a handle for the course early, knew exactly what I was doing off every tea. Um almost like playing my home course. It was like, right, I’m going to hit it down here. Hit a little cut off there. And I just felt at home with it. And um I just grinding on people. And when you’re playing match play, every time you’re hitting a fairway or hitting a green, you’re putting more pressure on them. So, I just love that. It’s very attritional, isn’t it? Particularly when you’re playing when you when you’re not when you’ve got the kind of upper hand and you’re not making any mistakes, it’s almost impossible to play against. Yeah. Could you kind of feel yourself going through the week think because there was a lot on the line at the time. You’ve got kind of mast’s open exemption, I think, or certainly US Open exemption, I’m guessing. Were you kind of thinking about this stuff in the back of your mind thinking like, “Wow, this is going to be like a a career-defining moment if I can kind of get if I can get this through.” Yeah, I mean the masters is obvious when you think about it’s like straight away it’s like Augusta like just just the chance to go and play Augusta would be incredible. when I did well. I think one of I think probably the coolest thing that happened and when it sunk in was I put I played played great. Loved the week. Had a brilliant night out on the Sunday. Um woke up Monday, my phone was dead because I’d just been using it so much and nobody could contact me. So nobody knew where the hell I was. Um, and then I got back to getting on a flight back to London to go and play the St. Andrews Trophy in Czech Republic. And then so I got in and there was a lot of media when I got back and that was cool. I was like, “Oh, that’s fair enough.” But all the guys who had been playing that week had been had headed to the Czech Republic and like I remember they were all there and there was like a couple of there’s captain Colin Douglas and a couple other players like top players that were the best players in Europe and the best players in GBNI and uh I had to get in a car shattered. It was like threehour drive to this place in the dark. didn’t know where I was at. And I arrived at the hotel, it’s like 11:30 at night. I’m like, “Oh, I just hope like reception’s open. Like, I just want to get to bed, you know?” So, I’m like dragging my clubs out and I’m tired at the best of time. So, I’m dragging my clubs out. It’s like getting in the door, get to reception. I was like, “Oh, great. Right, perfect. I got the key.” And I turn the corner and there’s like a bar around the corner. So, I turn the corner corridor down there. a Turner and all the boys are there and he just started screaming like he got to give a big hug. Nice. And that was like for me that was like wow these are all guys I really respect and like really rate as golfers and they were all like buzzing and I was just like got I’ve done something here because if if they’re telling me that it’s really good then it’s obviously like for me that that was the that was one of the coolest things. So that was that was a really nice thing to have and that’s that’s probably why I miss that kind of team environment a little bit. Was over in um played Roy Abedine last July actually and you’ve got um obviously got a very nice painting there of yourself with the trophy so painting you not approve. Uh it’s good that the the skill of it is great. It just um too accurate. Is that the problem? I’ve got a face for radio and all that, you know. So, and then obviously that’s taken you through to 2007. So, you playing the Masters that get you into the Open and US Open as well. Yeah, it got me in uh Open US Open, which they were all brilliant. Like that was just such a learning curve. Again, I played really good that year. I didn’t really do anything in any of those tournaments which really disappointed me because like my preparation and everything was really good. I think you’re putting yourself down there. There is a big achievement in the practice round. Augusta who who did you take money off? Yeah. Yeah. I end up taking money off Nicholson uh defending champ as well that Yeah. Nine nine holes on the on the back n there. That was that was really cool. You know, I’ve been fortunate to win some tournaments, but that’s a day that I won’t forget, you know, like when I’m 70 and gray and old. I’ll remember that. That was a brilliant day. Really just get to pick his brains and nobody else was around and we had we had breakfast in the champions locker room. He just he just invited me. One of the members said, “This is Richie. This was on Saturday. This is Richie uh Ramsey. He won the US amateur. He’ll be playing with you on Thursday.” because it’s tradition that the US amateur plays with the defending champion. He’s like, “Oh, well, are you playing tomorrow?” I was like, “Yeah, I’m gonna go out and practice.” He’s like, “Well, if you want to have breakfast, we’re having breakfast in the champions locker room at like 8:00.” So, like obviously my face like lights up. He’s like, “Do you want to come?” I’m like, “Uh-huh. Yeah.” Yeah. Um, and so you know, you have breakfast, you’re sitting there and you’re like, “What is going on here? This is the most surreal thing.” And you’re sort of you’re just walking around the days cuz like this is just crazy. It’s absurd, isn’t it? And you’re up in the crow’s nest as well. That way you got you. I stayed a couple of nights up there um and I stayed at a hotel the rest of the time because it’s it’s quite tight up there. Like it’s a lot of people seem to say that. Yeah, it’s it’s it’s like um it’s kind of like if you go up into if you have an attic stairs, it’s kind of like that. You go up these we stairs, really narrow. Only one person can really go up the stairs. Um and then you come out and there’s a room. Um very small like sort of I say it’s not a living room. It’s just it’s basically just a big room that has partitions for like five beds. So there’s like a partition in the bed behind it and there’s a bathroom at the end and because it’s in the top of the clubhouse, all the heat goes up. So it’s hot up there. So it’s a cool place to stay, but it’s not like ideal preparation because if if one of the guys snores, then you’re in trouble. You’re goose. Um, so yeah, that was I mean that was an amazing week just to play um in a in a marquee group which was cool because you hear like the roars when the putts go in stuff like that and um play the US Open was brilliant. Uh the open at Carnisti I didn’t play that great. I was hindsight I was two and thrown back from America and Britain and I had a small illness that wouldn’t disappear and I didn’t really realize I had it. So I was getting a lot of high temperatures and this and and it was really struggling. My fitness like my health wasn’t great and then I eventually had a small operation at the end of the year that fixed it. Um, so there was a lot of stuff going on and and and also you’re trying to learn and understand how the whole kind of world of professional golf works and um trying to feel like you fit in. Yeah. And and and particularly in America that was a difficult thing. I can completely understand why guys struggle out there because in Europe you’re in same planes, you know, buses to the course, staying in same hotels or you’re staying in apartments that are close to them and you see everybody whereas America is very separate. It’s very like you sit down at a table and like there’s not much didn’t seem like there was much chat going on. M so it’s a bit more maybe a bit more distant out there and a bit more trying to understand that whole world was a little bit difficult but it was a huge learning curve um and it definitely helped me when I turned pro after the open in 07. So so Richie you talked about kind of playing and coming some of those you know marquee pairings and the kind of you know some of the people are kind of most revered on tour. Did it feel like a really big steep learning curve? What were the big things you kind of took out of those those matches? I guess you kind of saw things in the players that you’d never seen before when you’re playing with people like Phil and stuff. I think there was probably three things. The first the big thing and probably the overriding thing that I that I saw in the top players was like they don’t hit the ball down the middle of the fairway and hit the ball at the flag all the time. they’re they’re human and they all make mistakes. So that you know it’s not a game of sort of you know bit rotell here but you know they’re not perfect um and and that kind of aura or that kind of idea um is easy to go with but when you watch them it doesn’t always work like that but the one thing the next thing that they would say is because of that when they weren’t perfect they always tended to recover well. So when they made a mistake, whether they missed the green, you know, they would get up and down or whether they um hit it in the trees, they would they would use a smart play, knock it out and and and hit a wedge close and hold the putt and make par. Um and although they didn’t hit perfect shots, their score never sort of seemed to get away from them. Um particularly I mean Mickelson was that week was just unbelievable. He had two shots that I’ve just I think there’ll be maybe three people in the world that could hit them really. And it was just like he hit a flop shot on number six. No, sorry. Number seven. Now number seven, you watch the Masters the pin on the right hand side. It’s like a bowl. Yeah, but they they stick a pin long right on seven. So you imagine if the front bit’s like a bowl, there’s kind of like a tear. And he said it long left. Now he’s got to come over a bunker from a down slope to a green that runs away from him. And if he goes a bit too far, it goes down the ball and goes down to the very front of the green. And I was just like and and that was the year that Zack Johnson won. So the Greens were exceptionally hard that year. Um and I’m standing there and he’s he’s sort of walking around and I’m thinking wonder what he’s going to do here. I’m thinking chip like honestly chip it out sideways or putt it sideways and give yourself like 25 ft because that way it’s like give yourself a putt and you’re probably going to make five. You put yourself in a bad position but no he takes out this takes out the lob wedge or the 64 and I’m I’m standing halfway between him and the hole. Um, and I’m like, what is he doing here? Is he Is he taking this on? There’s no way he There’s no way he can stop this. And I’m thinking if he doesn’t make this like there’s a high number here and he hits this shot and because I’m standing side on, I’m like mouth just drops as he hits this like full swing and it glances like glances the the fringe over the bunker and runs down to like four feet and I’m like and like everybody else is just going wild just like applauding and I’m almost like putting my partner down clapping myself. And I’m like, and I could see it maybe if you’re if you’re mcking around with your mates, you know, like you used to do like in the short game made it and you’re like, “Oh, watch this. I’m going to hit this.” And you know, you you thin seven into the car park and four in the bush and you hit one goes down, you know? Yeah. But this is like in a tournament in the Masters and he knocks it in for four and I’m like, “This is a different level.” Yeah. And then he hit one, you know, the 05. So his Yeah. over the water. His philosophy was he said to me that for a lefthander, the worst place you can leave it is laying up because it’s into the green. The ball’s below your feet. Um, and it’s a really tough green to pitch into. So his his idea is like even if I can get it over the back of the green, doesn’t matter if I can hold the green, as long as he can get it over the water and even if it goes over the green, I’ll get up and down. So I’m like, “Okay.” So he’s So the pins on the very very left hand side and that’s the depth of that left deep, isn’t it? It’s crazy. Yeah. Yeah. It’s not much at all. So he’s hit the second shot over the water. But he’s hits it long right of the green. And I’m like, “Oh yeah, right. We we’ll see what happens here.” Because I’m like, “If he hits it a little bit long, he’s in the water. If he leaves it short, he could have this a very difficult chip again.” And he’s hit this hit this shot and it’s just bearing in mind it’s into the green straight up again. Lands on the down slope, runs down to about seven feet and he makes it. And I’m like, don’t I just don’t see that. Like just, you know, there’s some shots where you’re like, “Oh, yeah, I could probably hit that. Oh, I could do that.” And you’re like, I was like, “No, I can’t I can’t do that.” And you wouldn’t even try, would you? Particularly in that kind of environment with the penalties you’ve got, you know, you’ve only got to be slightly off course. You’ve only got to, you know, misjudge pace around there and you you pay the price, right? And he’s taken this on high tariff shots and he’s got the game to back it up and it’s just incredible to watch. It’s a oneoff. Yeah, he’s probably he’s probably tip tipped the visor and uh you cheeky little smirk. You know, the thumb came out the thumb. Um so that that was two two really cool like spots where I was just like, “Wow.” Like I can see now you can afford to be a little bit weward when you’ve got a short game like that. Nothing nothing’s impossible. Um so that was two sort of cool moments from from that year. Um and then yeah like so yeah them not playing well um learn you know recovering from from mistakes and probably probably thirdly was they all have like an ear of they’re all have a clear idea of what they want to do. You know they’re like I’m going to hit it here. I’m gonna like, right, I’m gonna hit hit a fade off this tree or they all look like they know what they’re going to do. You know, you never hit never all the top players never hit a shot and go, “Oh, I knew I shouldn’t hit over there.” You know, they’re all very committed to what they’re doing and have a clear idea of where they want to go, what flight it is, you know, what kind of spin they want to put on it. and and um and that kind of showed in the way their mannerisms, the way they would walk around the golf course, they all walked with a bit of a a swagger and uh and that’s just the mental the mental side. They know they’re good and um they wanted to show it. Finishing off those majors, you’re then turning pro. Was it was it straight to Q school? Um so I I took a little bit of heat because I turned pro after the open and play the Walker Cup count. Um, but that was a calculation on my part because I knew that if I turned pro, I could get some challenge to invites and also if I waited all the other guys would want invites when they came off the Walker Cup and it was they had a Stella Walker Cup team as well and you know Rory was playing in that and Lloyd and they were going to get invites ahead of me. I knew that. Um, so my my route and I felt like I’d plateaued a bit. had learned enough like let’s get to the next step. Yeah. Was with the term pro and and and play on the challenge tour. And that was that was a brilliant breeding ground for me. Learned a lot really quickly and played well. Suffered a little bit of not mental fatigue. um a little bit of struggles with the whole aspect of playing for your card and I didn’t have a sponsor at the time and one of my mentors stepped in and helped me out and that really changed the game for me. Mh. Um, and then I was able to get top tens, which meant that I got into the week after. I think I only had to use up four invites and I maybe had four top 10. So I had eight and then I got into the final event at the end of the year which was San Dominico and I finished 40th on the challenge tour. that gave me a card um on the challenge tour and it gave me status which the two things you need as a professional golfer money and status. If you don’t have one, the other one doesn’t matter. Yeah. And it gave me some money in the pocket to to pay for next year and it gave me the status that I could build a schedule. And you you’ve kept state you’ve kept status right through, haven’t you? That’s kind of I think I’m right there. You kind of, you know, your career’s had you’ve clearly had good years and you’ve had more challenging years. Has that kind of ebbed and flowed because you’ve been kind of on the tour for quite a long time, haven’t you? You’ve played, you know, high level for a hell of a long time now. And you’ve you must have had, like you would in any kind of life or any kind of job, you’ve had good years and bad years. So how do you kind of take those you know you I look at some of the performances you look at things like you know world rankings and and so on and so forth you know what have been like the real kind of big defining moments where you’ve had kind of you know huge breakthroughs and then you’ve kind of had to sort of handle maybe a few setbacks you know winning early was a big thing I think the the year I got my card I played in the Dunhill and um I was like maybe one of the last people in I end up finishing third and that secured my card with like two events to So that was a huge thing for me. And then because of that I I end you know like literally a month and a half later maybe two months later I won the SE Open and that was a breakthrough based on that Dunhill performance really. Um and then I I had a lot of years where I played well 2012 I I won in 2012 but a two chances that to win again. one Peter Hansen made a I was chasing Peter Hansen down and I I thought I had him for a playoff and he hold a 30footer on the last the eagle the last when I had the eagle putt from about 20 foot inside like I all day long I was like when I got to that 20 I was like I’m going to hold this make eagle he’s going to make birdie and I’m going to play in a playoff and I’m going to win. Um, I’ve never probably had a putt where I’ve been as sure that I’m going to hold it in my life. I just never had the opportunity because he knocked it in before me. So, it was all credit to him. Um, and then I was beaten somewhere else, Holland somewhere somewhere just after that. Um, so those were those that was the time where I felt like I kind of belonged a lot more. And that was two or three years after after I made the leap. So I kind of felt like played enough tournaments and competed that I was actually I wasn’t just making up the numbers. I was there to compete and to win, which felt good because I’m competitive and I don’t like losing. Yeah. I mean, you’re going out there to win, aren’t you? Everyone’s going out there every week to win. You finished 2012, I think 57th in the world. if I if I if I kind of when we’re looking doing a bit of research, was there were you kind of close at any stage there to thinking, do you know what, I’d move the game state side and start to compete over there? Was that was that a consideration? Um, so at the end of that year, I had an opportunity to go to Cusco in America because I had the exemption from uh Omega European Masters. It meant that I could go to Q school. If it didn’t work out, he come back and play in Europe. But at the end of the year, I think there was about four tournaments and it was something like Singapore, China, Hong Kong and something else. It was some maybe Dubai and I was going to be in all the tournaments and there were huge world ranking points in all the tournaments and there was American Q school. Now, in order to to go to Q school in America, I would have had to miss one tournament in Europe, play Q school, fly to Singapore, play Singapore, Hong Kong, then fly all the way back and play in final Q school in LA, and then fly back to Dubai and play in Dubai. But if I had played well in those four events on the European tour, I would crack the top 50, and it would give me all the WGC’s, all the majors the next year. So my view on viewpoint on it was let’s not split this up. Let’s not do 50% on European tour and 50% Q school. With all that flying, I’m going to be fatigued. Let’s just go 100% out on the European tour events and give it a shot and try and crack that top 50 because the top 50 for golfers is like the holy grail. Yeah. Once you’re in there, that really unlocks it, doesn’t it? Yeah. So that’s such a difficult decision, isn’t it? like hearing you talk that through. That’s such a like that’s like, you know, you’re damned if you do, you’re damned if you don’t. Event I I said, “Right, let’s play the European ones. If I play good and two out four of those, I’ll gain enough world ranking points I can make the leap.” Um, and I just didn’t play well enough. And then shortly after that, the next year I was playing in something and then the following year they closed Q school. um and you had to go and play.com and then the exemption was running out. So even if I went and played I had to really keep my card in Europe because otherwise um you can go to Q school but if you don’t have an exemption you don’t keep your card then you’ve got no come back you got no no seat anywhere and that’s a big problem. Yeah. Um and and to be honest I felt comfortable in Europe. I knew like all the tournaments I knew the travel. I could fly back home and see all my friends. I could see my family. As great as America is, playing in front of huge crowds and like obviously big purses. Um great competition like there’s other things outside golf that are bigger and and and like seeing your friends and being around people that you’ve known a lot of people that I met at university. That was like that was a that was just as important to me. Definitely seems like there’s a lot of um camaraderie on the European tour and much more of a a family feel than as you say. Yeah, definitely. I think, you know, sort of split up into countries, but I think people see each other and there’s a lot more socializing a European tour than probably in America. That seems like a better atmosphere out there. It’s quite quick, pretty friendly in a European tour. Have you got a couple of um couple of best mates who spend most of your time with out there? Um, not not really. I mean, to be honest, two guys that I had the best time with on tour were Reese Davis and Gareth Mabin. Both of them don’t play on tour anymore, unfortunately. I used to share a lot with them. I mean, now I a lot of time, it sounds funny, but I I’m a bit older now. I get my head down quite early. I would say I’m not uh I like to go in a Sunday night and maybe have a couple of drinks, but yeah, I don’t roll in at 2 or 3 in the morning. Those days you’re not starting Thursdays with a hangover on tour then at the moment. That’s kind of those days are gone. No, those those days have passed. So they can’t be can’t be many many players still um still taking the Wednesday night on. It depends where you are on tour, but obviously Sunday night’s quite a good night. I I I would enjoy going out and having a bit of a a bit of a a laugh. Nice nice meal, couple glasses of wine. Still get my my nine hours because if you ask anybody on tour, the one thing they’ll tell you is, “Oh, Richie, he sleeps anywhere.” Like find me sleeping anywhere. I’m always napping in different places like just in the locker rooms. Like, who’s that? As Richie is asleep over there snoring. So, one of the, you know, kind of talk to me about Burkedale 2017, Richie. That was kind of, you were right up there, weren’t you? I think um you were going out was like fourth or fifth pairing back. You finished a million miles off. That was quite an interesting final day in the open. Like there must have, you know, knowing Burkeale and how the whole route and everything around that back nine. Was there much of a kind of, you know, talk me through that whole sort of last day feeling? Um yeah, I was just like buzzing because I I played Burkedale British boys and like when I was about 15 maybe I think it was. Um and I loved the golf course because it kind of has a little bit of a feel of Royine. Um particularly that back thing. It’s just a really cool week. Like I just I played good. Love the golf course. There’s a ton of people out there. like a t like when you have an event at when we had one at Hillside British Masters that people just turn out there. Um they love their golf down that kind of side of the the country. Loved the week. Just the main thing was I enjoyed the golf course. I I kind of understood the golf course and really enjoyed it and and that helped me play better. But it’s the open, you know, it’s like the one you see when you grow up, you get to see all of us on TV. The only regret I had about that week is I didn’t believe in myself a little bit more. I think if I believed in myself, I could have made a little bit of a run, but I played really well and it’s probably the most fun I’ve had in the golf course really. I was just like almost to the point where you’re like on the weekend you’re like, “Okay, if I don’t play well, I don’t play well, but I’m just going to really enjoy this.” Like this is not going to happen all the time. And if golf stops tomorrow, I’ve got to like enjoy this present feeling. Like don’t worry about what’s maybe going to happen or or what’s not going to happen. Just go out there and enjoy each shot and enjoy the fact that like when you walk off the green, it’s packed. The grand stands are packed because it’s end of the day. And always remember walking up that last hole, hit a beautiful shot in and like the stands are packed. You’ve got the the classic yellow leader board. Um the beautiful um retro style clubhouse in the background and just it was just really cool. Really cool. Such a cool week. And like I say, most fun I’ve had in the golf course. I remember seeing you coming through. I think I was there on the Thursday or Friday and um I think I was hanging around some spot. Anyway, but um maybe saying I have to say from memory, I don’t know why this stands out, but it does. I think that year you had a orange and blue Stitch tour bag, which I have to say probably it was at the one of the best tour bags certainly on tour that year. Yeah. Yeah. The orange blue one that that year. Yeah. Stitch do a great job. Not with them anymore, but they make some fantastic products. And that their bags were their tour bags were always, you know, you never had to look. You go in the bag store, you’re like, “Oh god, if you got a Callie a Titless bag, you’d be in there for half an hour.” Um, like I would always go the orange one, mate, over there. I can see it from here. Um Um Yeah, that was that was that was a um that was a cool week. Yeah, if you ever if you ever thought you’d if you never thought you’d find the fan who who remembered exactly what bag you had at the 2017 Open, you’ve you’ve got Cal right here. I mean, borderline story. Yeah. Stash. Absolute stash. No. Crazy. Pick pick up the smaller details. Yeah. So, you kind of things like Exactly. You had quite um I guess it was a bit of a a close close run call, wasn’t it? In 2018, kind of closing out that season. I did a bit of read and obviously that was a I think it was difficult year. I think you had some injury stuff, didn’t you? And holding on to your card, it came almost pretty much right down to the wire at Val Drama. Yeah, that was Was that the hardest part of your professional career, you say? Yeah, probably probably the most nervous I’ve ever been in golf course, but probably the most nervous, but maybe the biggest challenge I’ve ever had because there was a lot going on that week. So obviously the golf course like first and foremost I love the golf course but it’s bloody hard. Ask me be the hardest golf course in tour. They’re probably going to say Verama. I’ve heard people like some of the pros just give it a wide birth for purely for its difficulty. Yeah. They just don’t like it because it’s too hard. Um but I love it. Like I love like the tunnel fairways. I’m like what’s this hit driver? You got to hit it straight. you have to straight or you’re like, “Oh no, I’m going to be under a court tree or you know that that kind of idea.” Um, lots of delays that week. It went in a Monday. Um, my final round was split up. So, it wasn’t like you go in the final round, you play, you’re done, that’s it. It was like we played 12 holes and it got called and then we went back and had to play six holes to finish on the Monday. So it’s like that’s brutal. You’re not sleeping. That was okay. You’re not sleeping one final round night. You’re sleeping over two final round nights. So it’s like you just the stress just ramps up even more. And I just remember the last whole I remember not hyperventilating but my heart was racing like properly almost feel like you’re on you know like feel like you’ve had four espressos. And I’m like, when I get like that, I always right in through your nose, out through your mouth, like get the adrenaline out, you know, don’t spike. Just like try and keep it as level as you can. It’s like the hardest trial on tour. So you’re like, you’re basically thinking like without sort of, can you swear on this or? Yeah. Yeah, you can stand like [ __ ] like I’m going to have to have a good teacher here. I’m not getting to the green. But fortunately, my drivers always been my strength. So I’m like, I’m going to head it over this tree and just smash it hard straight over that tree. And I’ve like just gunned it literally over the branch that I picked out. But until you get down there, Vama, you never know it’s in the fairway. So, you’re walking up and you’re like turning the corner cuz it could have clipped a it could have got over that branch, but it could have clipped another branch on the other side and ricocheted off behind the tree, you know? You just never know. So, I get up there and I’m like got was like where’s where’s my ball? And you get over the cret and you see it. I go I’m in the fairway and it’s a back left pin. I’m like right hit it middle. Don’t go you can’t go really long there. or something like hit an eight. So I had an eight and down there like just saw the shot, knew where I wanted to start it, drift it in off the wind, off the right, and I hit this perfectly. I’m just like, “Oh, keep coming. Keep coming.” And because if it just catches the slope, it goes all the way down to the hole and it lands in the middle of the green. It’s probably about 20 foot exactly pin high. I’m like, “Oh, this is perfect. Right, just roll this down.” So the two other playing partners putt and I get there and like feramic beans are fast like properly fast and I’m like right Rich the last drop get it in the hole roll it hit it slowly and for the life of me [ __ ] hell what went through my head I hit it about four feet by and I’m like what the [ __ ] are you doing and I see the media manager come over so I’m like oh my god this this means something. So I’m like, “Right, calm down. Calm down. Calm down.” Oh, do you know you So you when the media guy you can see here, you know that you’ve got I know it’s worth something. Yeah. Yeah. I know it’s like if I in my head I’m thinking if I make this I’m good because I’m quite high up the leaderboard. But I’m thinking if I don’t card’s gone. it drops you down and suddenly like the money becomes significantly less because you’re might be in a tie of like eight spots and then you could that could be your card. Mhm. And I’m walking around surveying the putt and I think to myself, did I have this putt like four years ago when I bar maybe more than that and Lucian Masters and I’m thinking it doesn’t break. Last time I was here like four years ago. I’m pretty sure this putt doesn’t break. And I’m like there’s a hill up there and there’s a valley on the right. I’m like it’s got to break left to right. It’s got to break left to right. So I’m like going back and forth, back and forth. I’m like right just think right whatever you’re doing, pick a line, commit it. So I’m like screw it inside, inside left. It breaks a little. If you got enough pace on it, it won’t come out. And I got over it and wrapped it in. And it’s probably the best like feeling mentally because I’ve I’ve basically been all over the place for like 30 seconds and I just got together being like pick a line commit that if it doesn’t go in you can’t do anything about it. Just put a good stroke on it. Make sure you commit to the shot. Knocked it in. Walked in and FD was like sort of like think you’re think you’re all right. I was like, I’m not all right until someone gives me a piece of paper and tells me I’ve got my card for next year. Um, that was the the biggest challenge and the toughest that was the toughest point of my career, but the most satisfying. It’s mad hearing you talk it through though where you saying like, you know, that’s the most pressure I’ve played under and thinking, you know, you talk about, you know, the free and easiness of playing kind of 17 Burke when you’re kind of right up there. You’ve got the US Am where you know you’re going to break major major historical records and then kind of that one it’s like that’s the one that actually really got got the fear. I think it’s quite interesting. Um I I want to kind of pick your brains a little bit. We kind of asked most of our guests about the kind of distance report stuff to do with the core setup. Um, I know when the Alfred Dunh Hill Willings was played last year, obviously there was a bit of a kind of hoo-ha around I think it’s Vic Victor Perez won new 22 under at the end and you know are some of the European tour events are the courses set up um, you know, easier for one of a better term than maybe some of the stuff out in the PGA and I guess I’m kind of interested to get your take on where the game goes with big big hitters people like kind of Cameron Champ coming in that are going to be you know those numbers could be the new norm in the next s five 10 years and you know I don’t think it’s a very easy one to solve but I’m really kind of interested to get your take as kind of a professional on you know courses setup and and how you kind of tackle that for the professional player. One thing I would say is that Dunhill is a very tough one because you’ve got amateurs and professionals playing. So, it’s it’s it’s a difficult one to find the happy medium because you’ve got to make it tough because it’s a professional event, but at the same time, you’ve got amateur, so you need to make it playable. And the old course is, you know, is ideal for that wide fairways. Um, most guys pick up when they get in trouble. Um, but it was soft that year and not much wind, so it made it very scorable. Yeah. Um, in general I would say the setup in Europe European tour is good. Um, in America they have a lot more money and money relates to, you know, you can feed the you can get the water and feed the grass, make sure it’s all uniformed. Um, and that happens in places we play like Abu Dhabi and Dubai because they have the money to do it. But we don’t have that money on every European tour event. Um, so I would say the setup in the stand of G golf courses is still the same. It’s probably a little bit tougher in America. That’s fair. Um, but the the distance thing is in my mind it’s got out of hand if I was if I was honest. I’m one of these people who I lived through the change. So when I was a kid, I I would have a wood, an actual wood. And when I grew up, I when I was 16, I remember spending all my 16th birthday money on uh Cali big bera and I was like, this is the biggest thing ever. Like can’t miss the ball. Like this is golf’s going to be so much easier now. M um and then I grew up and then obviously drivers grew with that and it’s got to the point where it’s far far easier to a driver straighter. Now for the amateur golfer that’s great because they need as much help as uh as they can get. The problem is for me is that speed is become speed of your the way you swing it um has become such a dominant factor because speed relates into your distance and that the technology has allowed people to have that speed. So a lot of the guys you see now who are coming through when they were 8 years old, they had a big driver which had good equipment. So they would just swing it as fast as they can because they knew even if they missed it, the ball would still be fine. When I was a little kid, if you swing it hard and you missed it, the dispersion on that thing was huge. So what what I feel is that it’s okay hitting the ball far. I’m I’m not opposed to that. The problem is is that you can hit it far, but your off center hits the dispersion is very very minimal these days. Um and there’s there’s there’s two things about that that’s that that’s an issue is that one is that people just whail on the driver because they know that there’s not a huge miss in it. And also it gives them far more confidence. So if you’re if you’re a guy who has a small headed driver when I was growing up, you would hit that odd shot where you’re like, “Oh, I missed that completely.” And it and with a blat ball particularly, it would spin out and you’d have a big miss. And obviously that gets in your head. So you stand there and some shots going on. Remember that, you know, hit hit that one in seven, missed it. straight into the hay, right? You don’t have that. You don’t have those sort of demons in your head anymore because you know you can as long as you commit to it and stand up and swing swing pretty fast as long as you hit pretty much round about the center of the club, the club will do the work for you and it’ll go pretty straight and you won’t lose much distance. Um, you know, so when I stand there and there’s a bunker that I’ve got to fly, it’s not the fact that I’ve got to hit it off the middle, it’s the fact I’ve got to get speed because I know that the club technology will do the work for me. Whereas if I stand there with a even a small metal like they had in the early 90s, if you just miss it a bit and a black ball and it spins up as going straight in that bunker. Um so I believe that the scale element has come out of it. I don’t know how to solve it. Um the other thing that it’s done is that it’s put a huge amount of pressure on golf courses to change. Um and and a lot of the time not for the better. you know, golf courses, most member courses don’t really have the money to be going out and spending or buying more land or building new TE’s or putting in a ton of bunkers or changing it just for the professionals. We are a small percentage of people who play golf. It’s your everyday member that um that needs to get the enjoyment out of the golf course. And and by extending them, the designs become less relevant, don’t they, as well? So you kind of look at you put the TE’s back by 60, 70, 80 yards, then all of a sudden the whole strategy and the way the hole was designed also becomes kind of almost kind of defunct with that. So I think it’s a tricky one, but you would and that’s kind of common place on tour. you know, people accept that the distance stuff now um where it’s got to, we can’t continue to push that forward in the same rate. Not without kind of making massive kind of impacts now on on particularly the tour level game because the courses just can’t contain the distance, can they? Yeah, there’s got to be a line in the sand and I I I firmly believe that line should have been drawn. You know, I wasn’t on tour, so I was only 10 12 at the time, but I was looking at a a picture of Faldo. It was a video of F of the Day on European tour twerk feed and it was him playing the Irish Open um you know Pringle sweater uh with the driver. Now he was hitting his driver there. If you if you watch it, if you go to the Twitter feed and watch it, the driver looks like a rescue club now. Yeah. You know, it’s like a it’s probably smaller than a fivewood. now building his swing so it’s the most skillful swing and he can repetitively hit it out the middle because he knows that’s where he gets a maximum. Now, if you want to tell someone, right, all you need to do is swing it fast. The technology will do it for yourself, you’re almost, I would say, taking the skill element out of it. Although it benefits the amateur players, which I’m all for, I don’t think it helps the professionals. And I don’t think simply distance should be as an important factor as it is in helping guys be successful. The guys I look at are really like Jim Furick, um, Matt Cooer, those types of guys. I’ve got to look at those and and be the best version of that possible because I know I I don’t have that kind of bomb and gouge game. I’ve got to sort of finesse it a little bit more around there. Um, and there’s guys out there that do do that, but they’re over the last 10 to 15 years, they’re slowly falling out the game. It’s the young guys who really send it and can overpower courses. Yeah. And I suppose it starts to make me think about kind of schedule then, doesn’t it? And you start to think, well, which courses actually set up for me? You know, which ones are the ones that I’m going to kind of give it a miss? Just like in the in the States, some of the guys will will kind of alter their schedule. Um I I feel like we’ve taken up kind of far too much of your time, Richie, but we’ve really enjoyed kind of having you on. Are you kind of are you preparing to get back out there or are you already kind of getting a bit getting sort of dusting the cobwebs off and kind of getting out there and swinging a few now? Yeah, I’m out in the back garden hitting off a bit astro turf making swings and doing chips and doing started off doing a lot of workouts and injured my hipplet a little bit and took a few weeks off and then getting back into the workout. So, I’m kind of ready to to get going. Just the idea I just want to be it sounds funny. It’s just like when you’re when I was a lot of time between 13 and 18, I would just get dropped off the practice range, bucket of balls to myself, bags, stay there, hit balls for two, three hours. Just love that. That’s that’s what I’m most looking forward to, just being out there grinding, trying to get better every day, going and playing a few holes, working on my game. That’s that’s all I want to kind of do really. Sounds like the tours um possibly getting back together around July at some point. I know they’re looking to do a sounds like they’re doing a few tournaments in the UK and I know obviously you have you got links to Renaissance Club and obviously the Scottish Opens postponed at the moment. Is there any news on that? Is that likely to be rescheduled for this year or will they carry on? I’m not really too sure. I obviously I do know that it’s logical thinking to to look at you know you have British Masters, Scottish Open, Dunhill and BMW, you know, one country, one set of regulations, have guys close around and play a lot of tournaments close um back to back. that seems like a a logical thing that they could do, but I haven’t heard anything on Renaissance. Um I still think we’re a long way away from getting back out there. You know, I don’t see it happening um really till a good part of the summer, like end part of the summer. They’re touting mid July, aren’t they? But it feels that feels very ambitious. The open was Yeah, the open was um was obviously cancelled. So, and that was that’s pretty much mid July. So, I can’t see it being being at that that close. Um, and it’s a it’s all dependent on, you know, second spike if a second spike comes. A big thing in my mind, this is the way I would think about it, is the PGA tour. Like if the PGA tour return and they’re able to do that and manage it and it be successful then it helps us. However, if they return and there’s issues that are brought up with that and there issues that are pretty much health and safety issues that that are difficult to get around as in testing people or if someone contracts uh uh COVID and you know they’ve been in player dining or in a bus and then you’ve got to trace people. If something like that happens, which let’s be honest, that’s a possibility, then it sets back uh our timeline and how they how they would look at tournaments. So, it’s, you know, it’s unprecedented. No, I don’t envy their their job. It’s it’s really really difficult to come up with a tournament because when you play golf with your mates, it’s like, “Okay guys, turn up five minutes before, get in the first tea, nobody touches each other’s clubs, don’t touch a flick, stay 2 meters away from each other.” Um, and then jump back in cars, off we go. Um, but with a tournament, it’s like, okay, flights, hotels, okay, how you going to get the guys to the golf course, right? You going to use a bus or how you going to do that? Okay, where are they all going to eat? Do they have to eat together or do they have to have separate? Okay, you got caddies, where the caddies going to stay? Okay, what’s the rules for the caddies? Then it suddenly becomes Yeah, it’s crazy. Really, really difficult. Um, and it’s it’s not an impossible puzzle, but you know, it’s not far off. It takes a lot of unpicking, doesn’t it? Well, I mean, we we’re keeping our fingers crossed for you guys up there just to be able to get out there and play soon. We’ve uh we’ve enjoyed kind of playing and I’m pretty sure Royal Abedine and Renaissance some more is going to be firm, fast, and good fun when when it when it does happen. And we hope I hope the rest of the season goes well for you when that eventually returns and we’ll be watching with with great interest, Richie. But just a massive thank you for coming on the pod this uh this week and it’s been a pleasure chatting to you. No, it’s no worries. Thanks very much for having us. It was good to good to chat for you a few things. cuz I I probably I learn as much just talking through it about things that I’ve I’ve gone through and things that I’ve learned. Um so it’s good for me to go back there and realize, yeah, I’ve I’m I’m proud of what I’ve done. Um but hopefully there’s more in the tank. Perfect. Appreciate your time. Thanks. Good luck. Cheers, boys. Cheers. [Music] [Applause] [Music] No way. [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause]