Bruce, Sam & Tom discuss the history of the Ryder Cup through three lenses. Sam discusses the importance of the Captains in previous Ryder Cups, Bruce discusses the importance of Captain’s picks and Tom discusses the importance of the World #1 during the Ryder Cup. Niche prevails.
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Watch [Applause] [Music] this. No way. [Music] [Applause] Hello and welcome back to an episode of the Cookie Joff Podcast. I am Tom Mills and today I’m joined by Bruce Fitzpatrick. Good morning. And Sam Williams. Tom, what have we got in store for today’s episode? We are looking at we’re going full Bill James Saber Metrics. We we’ve picked three topics, one each. We’re going to keep it to 15 minutes. We’re going to set a timer on it. We’re going to talk about our particular topic and it focuses on something niche to do with the history of the RDER Cup, specifically the outcome of the history of the RDER Cup. So Sam, what um have you chosen as your topic? So I’ve got captains. Give us a brief synopsis of captains. What do you mean by captains? Okay. Well, am I off and running? Am I? No, no, no. We’re just going to Well, I’ve looked at the I’ve looked at the history of captains, their success, their failure, um some of the kind of key captaincies. I guess comes some of the watershed moments and and within that I suppose a little bit of the context of the event itself and the different eras it’s been through. Perfect. Bruce, you have picked. I’ve gone with um captain’s picks. M actually um and just looking at yeah looking at some of the captain’s picks over the years. Nothing too rigorously statistical here. I don’t want to sort of dip my ore in the water like we’ve been talking about with all the bluster that’s been leading up to this event. Mine’s just much more um verbose and subjective, but I thought we’d revisit some of the captain’s picks over the years. And that feels pretty key this this year. But then I suppose you what you’re probably going to tell us is it’s been pretty key in every year. But let’s not put the cart before the horse. Thomas, what is yours? I chose the performance of world number ones and how that has an effect on the outcome of the RDER Cup. Now, since all rider cups start and end with a captain, uh I suppose that would be the natural place to start. Okay. Yeah. Well, look, I Yeah. So, I’ll take from the top. I I’ve probably gone stat heavy and you know I’m a bit of a history buff anyway. So in searching for the answers of what might happen I’ I’ve looked into the past and tried to tried to pull some stuff together. So let me try and take people through this. So some very high level history about the event. The Ryder Cup has been played since 1927 and there have been 43 Ryder Cups played to date. Um, in total there have been 56 captains of various sides with 16 captains having led the team on more than one occasion. Going to give a few bonus points if people can name any of the multiple captains. Tom Bruce. Uh, Davis Love. Oh, okay. Good one. Tom, are you now just going to check that? I am going to check that because I’m not Yeah. 2012 2012 at Madina he got routed and then at Whistling Straits in 2021 I think he had that fair yeah good Tom anyone else Jack Nicholas yeah Nicholas multiple multiple captain so I’m I’m going to just pull out some of the Jacqueline is a great one Jacqueline is someone we’re going to talk a little bit more about in due course um in terms of the big hitters the most capped captain is Walter uh yeah So um so Walter Hagen captained the first I think it was six Ryder Cups from 1927 to 1937. So that’s a pretty key bit of bit of info. Dy Reese would be the second most capped captain. So he captain the side five on five occasions. In terms of the people who are most successful, Ben Hogan captained the US side three times and won it on every single occasion. Uh and Arnold Palmer captained it twice, although he only won on US soil. So Hogan’s the only person to captain on multiple occasions, win every time, and one of those times was on um foreign soil, which was at Gantton in 1949. Wow. Um I I guess kind of Hogan’s a pretty interesting jumping off point for me because he was his captaincy comes in around the end of World War II, which is kind of that key era. Everything leading up to then there’d been these sort of six or so rider cups, a bit hit and miss. Hagen captained every single one and then in 1947 when it was played at Portland, you know, Hogan kind of steps in as the golfer of the day. Now, some of the stories about Hogan’s captaincy are pretty cool. He had a curfew on players, so he needed everyone in bed by 10:30 in the evening. Um, that’s always in bed by 10:30. Yeah. I mean, I think that’s kind of common sense. If I looked at Italy and I found out Rory or Larry were out drinking cello until midnight, I’d probably be a bit disappointed. So, um I don’t know why that’s newsworthy. But anyway, that’s by the buy. Um I I guess until then the event had always been talked about as a bit of an exhibition um and and and maybe a little bit soft and he bought some pretty steely competition which comes through in the results there. Um, Peter Alice was quoted as saying that, you know, when Ben Hogan introduced the side, I think he he basically said, “Look, we felt like we were 10 points down before a ball had even been hit.” So, that gives you some sort of mark of the man. The other reason I wanted to talk about Portland very briefly, interesting bit of context, obviously World War II has just finished. Um, and a chap named Robert Hudson was the guy who basically re reinvigorated the event. So he he paid all the costs for teams to travel over. He later became a president of the advisory committee. Um you know he kind of he was from Portland. He was a success successful grocery businessman I believe. Um yeah basically you know Robert Hudson’s a pretty key figure in reinvigorating the Ryder Cup in 1947 after the Second World War. So um that’s a little bit of the stuff about Ben Hogan. I I don’t think much is ever written about his Ryder Cup stuff. So therefore that was quite interesting really to just to see that you know clearly the reputation he had on the course seemed to extend off the course. I don’t know any other sort of thoughts on that from you gentlemen. You people too busy thinking about the grip that’s why with Hogan. Um just a quick one while you were chatting away I did a little bit of research and there was like uh when you go back early doors it’s like 25 points to 12. Obviously I’ve made those numbers up but there’s a lot of points on offer. What how did the structure change? Do you know we got that’s a really good question Tom actually um format wasn’t fully within my gift. What you see is the number of points change around quite radically don’t you? So I thought it was fewer in the beginning actually like some of the score lines like 75 or 11 was it 11-1 was one of it might have actually been at Portland where um where yeah 11-11 is and and Henry Cotton was like the the GBNI captain. Yeah. Spot on. Spot on. So he So 11-11 was an absolute waxing. That was obviously the first year back and that must have been a bit of a after this guy Robert Hudson’s put his hand in his pocket and paid for everyone to come over. It must have felt a bit bit of a tough tough ordeal at the other end of it for Henry Cotton’s side. Um yeah like there are some changes. So obviously we play for 28 points at the moment but if you look at Champions Golf Club which is interestingly another um Ryder Cup in which Hogan captain that’s 1967 against Dyres that’s 23 and a half to eight and a half. So, you know, the format shifted around the the three eras of the event that I would kind of look at though would be the I suppose really there’s the preworld war era, which is those kind of six six sort of rider cups that we talked about. Then you’ve got this whole I I guess kind of postwar era, which is really the GB area. I know I know it goes from Great Britain to then Great Britain and Ireland um in 1973 and then there’s three Ryder Cups played where it’s GB and I versus GB but actually if you look at the look at the data on this I think guys from the from North Northern Ireland and the Republic were playing in the event well before that anyway. So really you’ve got that kind of GB side. The high level summary is we got absolutely toasted for the vast majority of that time. I think there was only one win in there which I’ll come on to shortly. Um which was in 1957 which is quite a cool little story. Um but then you’ve got then 1979 which is when it becomes more the modern era really which is the Europe versus team USA and that that kind of kicks in as I say around 1979. Interestingly that was as a result of some lobbying on the part of Jack Nicholas I think of all people. Is that right? That’s how we crossed over a bit on this. Yeah. Well, I I’ll I’ll talk about a bit, you know, on uh the reason I actually came up to it, you know, in my sort of research question was because um captain’s picks actually only really started in 1979. They didn’t they didn’t exist obviously before that. Um and 1979 was when Continental Europe was added and that was because Jack Nicholas was sort of lobbying and said, “Look, the the it’s been so one-sided over the years. Maybe it would just be a more competitive event if Continental Europe were added.” So I think he spoke with the Earl of Derby who was then the president of PGA and you know those discussions were quite important in leading to you know in in leading to Europe being added to to the GB side and having GB and continental Europe against against Americas. I mean if you look at if you look at the plays of it before 19 um yeah if you go up to 1979 you have got 16 you’ve got you’ve got 22 playings of the RDER Cup and GB have only won three in those times which feels quite strange I guess if there was an event that straddled what a 50-year period and in that time they’d only been you know one side had won at 47 I think it’s a bit of a stretch to think that that would turn into the spectacle that we’re enjoying this week. Do you not think? I mean, it’s a bit odd, isn’t it? Oneided. Yeah. Yeah. I think it was accentuated as well though by the fact that like the the Americans were it was a particularly like sort of rich vein and form for for American teams around that time. Anyway, so when Nicholas has a conversation with the Ear of Derby at Litham in 1977, like they’re obviously in in a sort of American vintage of of players who have just won, you know, countless tournaments. I think I don’t know if it was at 77 or maybe it was 79. I think like the American team had something stupid like 36 major titles between them, which is just bonkers. Um, so yeah, but you’re quite right. I don’t think we’d have the spectacle. certainly wouldn’t capture the imagination like it does today if if it continued to be so one-sided. Yeah, it’s just it is it is quite strange and if I’m honest when you look at the captaincy and the performance and the trends that that kind of trajectory with team USA dominate still goes on for a number of years and I guess it’s just quite surprising that you could run something for 50 odd years have a completely one-sided battle and then in the modern era what we’re enjoying now it’s just a radically different spectacle. I’ll just talk about some of the GBNI captains briefly because I know I’m kind of eating into my time limit. Um I guess couple of figures to talk about. One of them, poor old Charles Wickham. Um who in the early days he was he was a four-time captain of the Ryder Cup in his history and he lost every single time. Um is this like the 60s ‘ 60s7s? When is this? No, no, no. Charles Wickham was he remember he was in the film you did about Walter Hagen when he won at Georgees in 1922. So so Wickham is like the captain in 31 35 37 um and then at Ganton uh in 1949 so where he faces off against um Ben Hogan’s team not surprisingly losing. So yeah I mean poor old Charles Wickham seems like he had a pretty pretty tough ordeal. four times captain in that to a loss would feel uh pretty steep but he had a pretty good playing career actually which I which I found in there. Um Dyres is a figure that I don’t think we can talk about captains of Walker Cups and not mention Dyres. I would like to do a lot more on Dyres because to be honest with you I don’t know a huge amount and the the stuff I pulled together for this podcast is pretty much research. I will tell you a couple of things about him if you would like. So um you’ll enjoy this Tom Di obviously Welsh that will no doubt please you. Uh he’s actually from not far from where I live. Uh he’s right he’s font to Gary which is near Barry. Oh well we should go and do a little we should go and do a little sort of trip down memory lane. Um basically worked for his dad was the assistant pro in Wales then went on to become the head professional at Hindadhead in Surrey. Um and then he went on to South Hearts and it turns out Southarts have like this quite a good relationship with the RDER Cup because I think that’s where the American side used it to warm up. um during that era and for a number of years afterwards. In fact, they actually play for a trophy called the Hudson Trophy every year which is named after Robert Hudson who in 1947 or something like that um reinvigorated the RDER Cup. So that was quite cool. Um during during World War II he was a driver for Sir Harry Broadhurst who turns out was a pretty decorated um RAF pilot. Um, and I suppose Dyrese was the person to lead more Ryder Cup sides from our side than anybody else and with the exception of Hagen is the most prolific of all time. Um, during that era, GB and I only ever won three Ryder Cups out of out of 25 as I’ve kind of mentioned earlier. Um, he didn’t necessarily get thrashed, but whilst he is kind of talked as of being a fairly iconic Rder Cup figure, he did win one out of five. So I I don’t think his the performance as such is necessarily on paper stands out. But I guess that win at Lindrich was absolutely huge which was the pretty much the only time we won it in that era. So I thought that was quite interesting. Have you ever been to Lindrich? No. Me and Bruce played a match against some guys from Lindrich. Do you remember that? Yeah. Never been and played there, but I’ve heard it’s um I heard it’s a good day out. There’s some off the course. I know. Very boozy club, isn’t it? Well, you know, come on. I think we can phrase it a bit more in a in a more complimentary fashion than that. No, no, in a good way. It’s actuallyable big. That’s a compliment from Sam. I can assure you. Um there’s some quite niche venues when you go back, isn’t there? I know it’s just taking you off topic slightly, but there are some some places like obviously what first um first GB and I was Morttown, which you don’t hear huge amounts about, which we might hear some more in coming up coming soon. Who knows? It’s almost almost feels like someone should be doing a film about the event. Um I’m going to just jump into the modern era cuz I want to get through this. So um basically it’s a different game all together since sort of we move to that European world. Um I think we then lose the next what have we got here? Let’s have a quick look. We lose the next three but then things change completely. So I I suppose enter stage right would be Tony Jacqueline um and Bernard Gallagher. So, you know, both both captain the the side then over a significant length of time from 1983 Tony Jacquine which then led into Bernard Gallagher uh in 1991. Um Jacqueline’s a pretty key figure. He he was the first person to pick up the win at in for for team Europe. That was played at the Belelfrey. Um that was where Sam Torrance hold the winning putt. Um yeah, I suppose this kind of marks the change of uh that’s my alarm for 15 minutes. This kind of marks the change for for for our fortunes as such. Um I what do I want to put in here that I I kind of particularly wanted to talk about? I suppose there’s, you know, 1985 that was the last time the RDER Cup was not broadcast live on TV. Um is that right? Ever since the Europeans have kind of taken over, it’s almost like we’re showboat show ponies. Yeah. I mean, it just shows you the scale of the event when this all of a sudden became a little bit more competitive. If you Google pictures on this, you mainly see pictures of Sam Torrance. There’s obviously a lot of iconic images of Sevy, but actually it’s Manuel Panero who won the most points that week. So, that was that was pretty interesting. Um, what’s amazing just jumping in there, Sam, looking at the the results of this, you know, period of time is just how close they are. Obviously Europe emerges as you mentioned there at the belfry in 1985 but like the next few rider cups 1987 it’s like Europe wins 1513 1989 it’s 14 all 1991 it’s 14 after 13 after the US and 1993 it’s like 1513 I mean that that is just brilliant TV isn’t it that’s going to be a brilliant viewing spectacle when it’s all so closely contested yeah so out of the last 15 of the RDER Cup there have been six 14 and a half 13 and a half just that one outcome, you know, there’s there’s also a draw in there or there’s a there’s 15 and 13s. I mean, there is I suppose that is exactly why we’ve gone from an event that was completely one-sided to an event that’s now so gripping. Um, which is a great observation. Final final bit of intel here, and I know I’m overrunning, but I think it, you know, as long as you guys will permit it, it’s warranted. I was I was quite interested in whether major success as a captain would have a bearing historically on on their success. Luke Donald has obviously never won a major. Zack Johnson has won the Masters and the Open Championship. So great major winner of he’s everyone’s favorite major winner. So of all the winning Ryder Cup captains, 34 of them are major champions. However, of the losing RDER Cup, out of 41 winning Ryder Cup captains, of the losing Ryder Cup captains, only 20 are major championship champions. Now, clearly there might be some stuff in terms of how many times someone captained, someone you know, etc., etc. For example, Dyres didn’t win a major, I don’t think. Um, but it’s also kind of reflective of the generations of players this stuff. I, you know, just I was just quite interested in this stuff. But if we look at the seven RDER Cup captains who haven’t won a major that have won the tournament, six of them come in the last 30 years. The only other person to win a Ryder Cup who wasn’t a major champion as such was Dyres. So there’s not a huge amount you can really draw from this other than the fact that when you look at um previous winners, there have been one, two, three, four, five out of the last 10 out of the last 10 of the road cup, five of the winning captains have been non- major championship winners. Every single losing captain has been a major champion. Really? I don’t think there’s any any correlation. I think that’s pure coincidence, but if nothing else, it points towards some success. Nice to talk about that. There’s a lot more. There’s loads about what people, you know, did as captains. You know, everyone seems to have a different style. Langanger obviously massively introvert. Azinger also really successful, quite extrovert. You know, there’s talk about things like the pod system, how they manage the relationships. But when you dig into it, I suppose what I kind of got from everything was how they how they handle the dressing room, how they handle the team and those individual relationships. But fundamentally, it comes down to those captain’s picks in the modern era. And I guess Bruce, that’s something you’re going to tell us a little bit more about. Yeah. I mean, before we jump into the captain’s picks, my my topic for discussion, do we have time for a little Q&A? Because there’s a couple of little questions I think. Yeah, I was hoping we’d have a Q&A. Yeah. That you’ve just thrown up there, Sam. So one of them is is there much correlation or is there any kind of key rationale as to when a captain yeah that’s instructive as to when a captain is given a second bite of the cherry so to speak. Obviously you know there’s a fair few losing captains over the years who have been given a shot at redemption. Davis love I misspoke earlier I said he was captain at Madina when they were turned over which was true but it wasn’t Whistling Straits. It was Hazeline in 2016 when he was given his chance at redemption. Obviously the US team won, but there’s other captains out there who have won who have lost and not actually had another go. I mean, was there anything you sort of found on that topic? No, I mean I feel like we’ve we’ve you know, this is part of the choreography of the event, isn’t it? The idea that you get one chance to be a captain and therefore it’s all eyes on Luke Donald. It’s like, is he going to do it or is he not? The weird thing with this event is that the the quality of a captain is judged solely by the outcome. If they win, they are an outstanding captain. If they lose, they’re a poor captain. It is it seems to be that simple in history. And since the sort of era of perhaps, you know, Bernard Gallagher, Tony Jacqueline from our side, Bernard Gallagher was the last person to be a multiple captain. Um, you know, Davis Loves obviously had two bites at it, but by and large it’s changed on an annual basis, um, from the US side, and that’s been the case probably a little bit before Gala. So I I feel like it’s a completely different event from the times when you used to give people multiple cracks at it. If you treated it solely as a competition and there wasn’t all the kind of the pageantry that goes around this surely you would you would you would continue to give it to people that have proven to be really successful. People like Mcinley really successful captain Monty actually really successful captain when he did it. Um it’s funny though when you say really successful once they’ve won Monty won 40 and a half 30 and a half it’s not like really successful regarded as a good captain like when the when the stuff that’s written about them and this is the point about the narrative is only positive when they win and it’s only negative when they lose and when there are you know a heap of other variables in there it’s quite strange you know what’s interesting actually though as we’re talking about it now I’ve just sort of realized that I think there’s been more of a a tendency on the on the European team in previous years where a captain’s lost they still sort of stand by the captain. So I think you know Darren Clark was captain if I’m if I’m not mistaken at Hazeline in 2016. Harrington was captain wasn’t he at Whistling Straits in 2021 and the European team still stood by them even though they kind of got thumped particularly at Whistling Straits. Obviously that was the largest ever margin of defeat uh in how many years. Um and yet you know a lot of the European team members just still stood by Harrington said no you know we just didn’t play well and stand by Padrick’s decision such and such whereas the American teams have historically sort of gone in and they they’ve needed like a ride a cup task force or they’ve named it you know along similar lines to say we need a massive overhaul like Tom Watson at Glen Eagles in 2014 if I’m not mistaken was crucified wasn’t he by Phil Mickelson and Patrick Reed and others and there was similar sort of debate and animosity it seemed in 2018 when they lost at the golf national whereas I can’t recall that happening on the European side as much maybe foul though I think that’s chicken and egg though but I think that could be chicken and egg do you know what and what I mean by that is I think there’s always been a sense that we’ve gone into these things as slightly outmatched in terms of team Europe but there’s been more cohesiveness within the dressing room and there’s been a little bit more camaraderie amongst the teams that’s always now whether that’s just a narrative that’s pedled by the media, but it’s always felt like team Europe win or lose as a team. And maybe that stretches back to the Phil Tiger era of playing different golf balls and stuff, but it’s always felt like the USA has been a team of of indivi of individuals. So, I wonder if some of that is maybe just more a chicken egg, i.e. the team has never been cohesive or hasn’t been for a number of years in the US camp and therefore that’s why you get this kind of fragmented sort of like, oh, he wasn’t a great captain. I thought it was okay afterwards. Whereas I get the sense there’s a lot more solidarity within team Europe historically. I think people really buy into that stuff. So um I don’t know whether that’s because you know Tom Watson was a poor captain or whether it was just a fragmented side would be my point. Yeah. Lots of personalities. Yeah. Fair. Tom, anything else? No, not really. It’s it’s a strange one listening to you two chat about that. Like the interesting thing about the RDER Cup is that we try and impose a team um a team framework around an individual sport. You know, a sport that they’re individual for the best part of I can’t do the maths 28 weeks out of 210. You know, like or less than that. 50 104 1024 good math. You got a PhD, didn’t you? No, masters. Um, interestingly in maths. Um, but like I think it’s difficult to be so self-centered and rightly self-centered for, you know, most of the time and then try and pretend like you’re all a team and you love each other. And um, it’s got to be difficult. And I think lots of it is very bromancy. Do you remember Fleetwood and Molar? It was just very bromancy, wasn’t it? You know, and them videos of them waking up in the same hotel bed and um it’s it’s got to be difficult to either way. And I think when you lose or win, certainly if you lose, it’s just easy then to turn around to the captain and say, “Oh yeah, it was, you know, cuz the captain didn’t bring us together.” Well, you weren’t ever together to start with. You were just thrown together and hoped it would work. So that you know, that’s what I think about it. Where are we going next chaps? Yeah, I I I think that’s a fair point. I think there’s going to be more pl more time more space for speculation as we go through this. Do you want to you know I think the jumping off point for me would be we can only speculate how people manage their teams and some are clearly better than others. I’ll give you an example. international rugby, they will bring them together once every three months, you know, the whole squad to train together to be together because they understand they’re from I’m sure it happens with other sports, but because they understand they’re from different clubs and they need to keep being together and embrace the work ethic and understand each other and they’ll bring that together every 3 years. I to my knowledge they’re not you know I know they’re playing um in the same venues often but they’re not being brought together in a format which would embrace team performance. I don’t know maybe they are maybe no I think that’s right and I think that’s why you know that’s why it was felt team Europe had that sudden glut of success. So when you started to see a Lassabel who came in as a captain’s pick who no doubt Bruce is going to talk about um you know you had all of a sudden these countrymen and you had these bromances within the European side which I think is what Azinger looked to replicate with this pod system which was like [ __ ] these guys are all over the place. They’ve got their own entouragees. They’re traveling on their own. There isn’t the same cohesiveness as a team and therefore where Azinga was successful was he was trying to create those kind of more regular friendships. It’s not like the New Zealand rugby team where they’re all going to get together every few weeks and they’re going to spend time together and they clean the locker room or any of that sort of jazz. Um, but have tried to do that. Yeah, this is complete speculation. But in you know when when it became Europe which was what 1979 70 n um during that time like the PJ tour started to boom. the European tour was still quite uh it was there wasn’t as much money and the players traveled together. So in that first sort of decade, two decades even if you were playing on the European tour, you traveled together, you roommed together, you stayed together, whereas the Americans have always had more money private jets. No, you’re spot on. You on your own just be individuals where the Europeans were forced to be together for most of the time. Spot on. And it’s it’s like Ran Rafa was telling us about um Bruce, take us through the captain’s pick. Right. So captain’s pick next. Okay. So captain’s pick. I am just going to put my computer on charge for one second because I am learn. Okay. This is the kind of amateurish interjection we can expect in the Cookie Jar podcast. I think it would naturally flow onto world number one’s automatic pick. Well, no. I I I thought it would flow naturally on to Well, I just said that in his picks. We’re on charge. I’m ready to go. So, I mentioned it earlier. Um, the the idea of captain’s picks, they weren’t actually introduced until the addition of continental Europe in 1979. Those were the first two captains picks, Sevi Balisteros and Antonio Gerredo were the first European selections and the first captain’s picks on the US side, you know, when they came. Any guesses? No, I’ve got absolutely no idea. This is all the school me 89 and that was after um that was after 1987 Jack Nicholas his home course Murefield Village obviously there’s a great connection there between the Golden Bear and and that’s the course that he built. Um the Europeans ended up winning there and so the Americans thought we we need to we need to op you know have a think about captain’s picks um like the Europeans have been doing. Quick question. Anyone know how you mentioned the 1947 Ryder Cup earlier on? Sam, do you know how the teams were selected or the the British team, I should say, was selected back then? I mean, I’ve got Yeah. I mean, you just pulled it out. Monthly medals. I I mean, I I was it like a selecting committee in 1947. Was it was it okay? Yeah. So, so the the British PGA appointed a selection committee of five people. It included a few exrider cup players uh including Charles Wickham and they announced a list of 14 players essentially from which the final 10 would be chosen. Um but there was weird exemptions. So the winner of the news of the world match play was given like an automatic spot. Um huge event in the day. Huge event. So, so what’s interesting here and it kind of it’s a theme that continues later on into into the century, but um the it’s quite hard to separate out like the different selection criteria that apply to the American side and the European side. And also the you know, you got to remember there’s no official World Golf ranking until 1986. And even after the introduction of that ranking, the European side favor um their own sort of pointsbased European selection criteria. So that’s where you you know that that has a big impact on some of the captain’s picks because in 19 um in 1987 for example to just mentioned where where the European side won at Murfield Village Sandy Lyle was a captain’s pick and he won three points but he was seventh in the world rankings at the time. What? And Aean Darcy was automatically picked despite being 112th in the world. So how did that work at the time? This is nuts what you learn when you go into the research. Yeah. So, so he was seventh in the world but got in on a captain’s pick essentially. That’s as far as I can. Yeah. From from from what I’m looking at here, he was essentially ranked seventh in the world but but presumably wasn’t playing enough events in Europe or you know for some other unknown reason um just wasn’t wasn’t eligible or wasn’t didn’t didn’t make the grade on the European selection stuff. Masters the year before or something. Didn’t he win the Masters in ‘ 86? Good question. Probably. I don’t know. I don’t know. It’s around then. I mean, that that just seems incredible. So, was another So, this is a theme actually. So, Balisteros was allegedly left out of selection at Walton Heath in 1981, which was very recently after the European side, well, Continental Europe had been added to the frame. Um he’d won the Masters, Sevy had won the Masters in 1980, remember, and he’d been playing on the PGA Tour, but I think some of his fellow Europeans felt that um you know, he maybe wasn’t sort of immersed in the European team. He hadn’t been playing week to week on the European. Yeah, it’s it’s nuts. I mean um yeah I mean so so this is kind of what’s quite hard to unpick and obviously you know in my usual way I’ve I’ve not kept kept to a clear structure here and and and and sort of singled out a few different rider cups. I’ve tried to cover all of it which is like a bit of a mammoth task but anyway um you know some of the some of the best and worst picks um over the last four decades or so. Uh definitely worth digging into. So you mentioned him earlier, Sam Jose Maria Alath picked in 1987 uh alongside Sandy Lyle and they were seen as two absolutely standout European picks over, you know, the last 40 years or so. They those absolutely stand the test of time. Jose Maria was paired with Sevy. Um you know they were a prolific pairing there um at Merfield Village. Was that Jacquine who picked him? Was that Jacqueline who picked him then? Oh yes. So good question. He put me on the spot there because this is where he had that run which came through in my captaincy research which was like yeah that was a huge moment picking him cuz on paper you’d never have picked athal. No way. And and he was like well I’m going to pair him with the countrymen. They’re going to get along well and they’re going to have and they’re going to create some bond. And that became like a recurring theme for the Europeans. Yeah. And that’s what happened. So um they they were picked they were put together uh and they won three matches um and although Latabel lost in his singles obviously he was you know pretty indispensable in providing three points alongside Sevy apparently again we could go back and look at the footage but he was just holding clutch putts sort of coming down the stretch being guided around by Sevy and obviously you know they’re both quite sort of fiery um passionate Spaniards and jumping up and down and um you know swashbuckling pair so that yeah you’re you’re quite Right. And you can probably see, you know, 40 years later or so, the closest you get to that is Sergio Garcia and John Ram at Whistling Straits in 2021. People forget this because the Europeans got absolutely thumped. But Sergio was a captain’s pick and won every match he played alongside John Ram. It was only when he got to the singles and Drew Bryson that he lost a point. But to deliver three points in a thumping there alongside Rahm, um, we only got nine as a team. Exactly. You forget that, don’t you? Yeah. And and Ramen Garcia delivered three of them. So, um, so yeah, pretty pretty cool to sort of see that that Spanish pairing or that you Spanish force just like Yeah. reincarnated 40 years after Alathabel and um and uh uh Sevy sort of first started defeating Americans. Um, another one that’s quite interesting, 1999 at Brooklyn. So, the reason I’ve singled this one out is obviously Mark James, the European captain, it was all looking brilliant going into the into the Sunday, but I don’t know if either of you guys recall what Mark James did in the first two days play that people found quite controversial and maybe it came back to bite him on the Sunday. Does anyone I can’t remember. Was Brooke sticking his finger up at people? So he didn’t play a rookie in he didn’t play a rookie in the first two days in in the first two days. Didn’t play a rookie. He picked Yasper Panovic who was a pretty good pick, you know, won a few matches. Uh I believe I think he won his singles as well. Um but he also picked Andrew Colart and he didn’t play any rookies until Sunday and the singles. Parnovic played in the morning forens. Yeah, but he wasn’t I think he I don’t think he was a rookie. I think he played before. So Brook line was the one where I think it was Justin Leonard that hold an absolute tram liner and the the team just stomped across the green. Torrent still had a putt to to sort of lock it up I think at that point cuz it was really tense. That’s one of my earliest golfing memories is being probably 12 or 13 years of age and all of a sudden seeing what was regarded as a bit of a bit of a poor showing of behavior. It felt like the start of that kind of USA, USA model where all of a sudden normal etiquette behavior on the golf course seems to go out the window with the Ryder Cup. When they storm that green when Leonard holds that putt, that felt like the time when that starts. Maybe that’s just my own childhood. Anyway, we digress. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And there’s a lot of I’m confused here, Bruce. Uh in the 99 World in the 99 Ryder Cup. Yes. They were one, two, three, four, five, six rookies in that. So the six rookies, Lori was a rookie, Gimenez was a rookie, Garcia was a rookie, Sanderlin was a rookie, Vandervel was a rookie, Harrington was a rookie, and Colt was there seven rookies in that. It is mental. While Brid It is mental to think that Garcia played in 1999 Cup, isn’t it? I I found that when I was looking at stuff, I was like, Christ, Garcia played in that one. I know. He’s been around for a while. So, so, so that was for Sergio’s first one, but um yeah, to be fair, maybe I’ve maybe I’ve kind of sh I don’t want to pull you up. So, so Colt was he didn’t pick Coltard, who was the captain’s pick, the only captain’s pick who was a rookie. Yeah. So, he didn’t Well, the But yeah. Okay. So, this is another interesting point. We’ve had six um picks this year, haven’t we? Yeah. Mhm. Each side. last um last time at Whistling Straits um the American side had six, the European side had two or maybe three and actually over the years it’s changed between two and four six this year. So to be fair, I take take one. That was always my question is when was is it is it aligned? Is it now? So it’s never been aligned so that each whether it’s the European tour or DP World Tour and and PJ or whatever they have their own ways of selecting their team and they can choose do it however they choose. If they want for a running race they could do if they want as far as I’m aware and unless this is a recent change um there’s no overarching sort of criteria or or or kind of framework i.e. That’s not to say that Europeans have to pick a certain number and the Americans have to pick a certain number. There’s been sort of discretion and so quite often there was two but at certain points in time it was extended to four and there’s a bit of back and forth. I think particularly from the American side they’ve sort of mirrored a little bit what the um what the Europeans have done. Uh initially it began with two um but obviously this year it’s now extended to six. Uh and I think you know on the American side obviously co was perhaps a factor there but yeah whistling straits six picks on the American side was probably a first for them. They they’d normally I think the Americans it’s probably fair to say have been seen as a more meritocratic system in that they don’t have to worry about players playing in Europe or on other tours until Liv came along. They’ve just been able to go with well the PJ tour and the world rankings. all of our players are pretty much on one circuit so it’s easier to decide whereas um for Europe there’s there’s always been a sort of discrepancy between where someone maybe sits in the world ranking and where they are on the European points list yeah Burn Vber is a classic sort of example of that in 2021 he was very high up on the um on the European points list Robert McIntyre is actually the same this year but they’re slightly further down on the world rankings compared to someone like a Justin Rose for example it’s a desperate attempt to try and add some sort of importance to the DP World Tour. However, do you not think moving forward with it kind of its now amalgamation with the PGA tour and the stake that they brought that they’ll kind of over time that’ll phase out because it looks like the European tour will have less significance moving forward. Question. It’s strange, isn’t it? Because the, you know, the the events that accumulate on points are going to be things that the Rolex Series events on the DP World Tour. the Scottish, the race to Dubai, um maybe the Ned Bank, you know, that’s maybe that’s not Rolex series, but you know, these these big events. So, the stuff that’s, you know, the stuff that’s going on, you know, at I don’t know, I don’t know. I can’t pull one out of thin air, but like the Belgium Open or whatever, you know, it’s not it’s not going to bear as as big a factor. I I think it’s quite interesting just the fact that I quite like the fact that each team can set their own criteria and I I quite like that as a model because um I think that adds another dynamic to it. Bruce, I am curious in your research and I don’t expect you to have done a full review of every single RDER Cup and the points analysis around it. But did you get a sense as to the relative importance of captain’s picks in the general outcome of RDER Cups? because we’re about to go into world number ones as well. And is is the I don’t know this maybe a bit unfair but is it is the outcome of the RDER Cup feels like it’s determined more on the performance of the captain’s picks or the people that are you know kind of just snuck in at the end or is it more an indication of how the world’s best players play on the pitch? I suspect it’s a bit of both. It’s an interesting one. I think it’s it’s probably fair to say that the captain’s picks in the context of European victories are seen as being very very important. Um so for example I mentioned uh 87 Jose Maria and Sandy Lyle they both won three points each. Um and then at Oakland Hills in 2004 Colin Montgomery picked by Bernard Langanger he sank the winning put on a Sunday delivered three points. The other European pick there was Luke Donald who delivered a couple of points. 2006 at K Club, Lee Westwood and Darren Clark, they both delivered three points each. Westwood contributed a further two half points. Um, and then obviously the person who stands out the most is Ian Palter at Madina in 2012, which is seen as just the most iconic RDER Cup performance of all time. Did he win everything that year? Did he as a um Did he go 4-0 or something? He went four and Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he went four and0 he went 4-0 and again you might you might be able to correct me on this. Um on the Saturday afternoon four balls I believe PA birdied the last four holes at Madina to win his match and that’s where the eye is like literally out of the sockets and he’s like Maroy unbelievably Rory Maroy is just along for the ride here. He’s just Palter’s cheerleader, not really doing loads, I don’t think. And Palter’s just steamrollered like, you know, four birdies to keep sort of European hopes alive. And people see that as being quite important in the context of what happened on Sunday. Yeah. I I can’t remember, but it was certainly there were lots of it. Paltera definitely took the last four holes on his Todd. Um Yeah. And it was like fading light, you know, fading light. The sort of the camera flickers in the background. Unbelievable scenes. and he is seen as like iconic there. But what’s interesting to come back to your question there Sam is that he won four matches at Valhalla in 2008 when the American side won comfortably 16 and a half to 11 12. Um and Sergio actually contributed quite a few points at 2020 in 2021 when the Europeans got thumped and Thomas Peters uh was top performing rookie iconic rookie performance at Hazeline in 2016 and the and the and the Europeans got beaten. So you can kind of overstate that that narrative about how important European picks have been to the overall success of the European team. There’s definitely like a rich vein of form in there. 2004, 2006, um you know, 2010. There’s I mean, again, I don’t know if this is a bit too negative, but it it’s worth just singling out a few funny ones. Um you know, PA wasn’t a brilliant pick in 2021. Um you know, dreadful did win his singles match admittedly. um you know won his singles match but won lost lost you know a few matches with Maroy there on on Friday and Saturday um Celtic Mana Eduardo Molinari I don’t know why this sticks in the mind you guys might not remember it but Franchesco had automatically qualified Eduardo Molinari laid down the gauntlet to Monty who was the captain and said if you pick me and you pair with me my brother we will not lose a point um he actually didn’t win a point um he he harved and got two losses which you know everyone has bad time but when you’re biging it up that much I think it’s kind of like Windham Clark he’s really sort of dug his own grave really this this week hasn’t he just waiting for Windham Clark to get drawn against Maroyin to lose 10 and eight on Sunday um and and and then there’s a few there’s a few Europe uh American cases where you know the American captains have probably picked people uh who haven’t delivered on the captain’s picks to just circle back to Brookline in 1999 n Ben Krenshaw picked Tom Layman and Steve P who both delivered two points each. So uh you know that is a nice example to the sort of contrary really. Um and again you know 2010 Celtic Manor the American side lost. It was very closely contested. Tiger Woods amazingly was a captain’s pick and it’s probably his best rider cup performance ever. So say that again. Tiger was a captain’s pick when in 2010 this is when his personal life of course of course and and he won three points. So um reading can I check that cuz he was world because he was world number one in 2010. I Yeah, but but he he he played hardly any events. So he wasn’t on the number one as part of the criteria because again it’s done on a rolling basis. So if you look at 2010 RDER Cup okay let’s just check we can check this now we got No because it’s because it’s on my list he’s world number one in 2010 but it fits the done on the uh tour ranking was he was a captain’s pick that’s nuts. So there you go. Woods is still the number outrage just Wow. Um, wonderful segue into world number one. Statistics collide. That’s what we teed up. Well done, Bruce. I thought that was a very interesting. Are we going to do Sorry, I got the Brooklyn line thing wrong. I’m sorry. Yeah, but no apologies. I have relooked it and he did try I should have said he tried to rest most of his rookies cuz there’s some crazy names in there. That’s a good little tidbit if you people want to go and look into some European names there that I mean obviously it was I was four years old at the time. I can’t really recall any of those those rookie names but yeah anyway um over to you Thomas. Uh yeah well mine’s more of a see mine is way more obviously statistical than than everybody else’s. Um it’s more like talking points, jumping off points. Um I looked at the performance of world number one. So the current world number one is Scottish effler. Um, and I was wondering how how he would perform and if that, you know, history would suggest that he would do well or or not. What do you think? How do you think Scottish Chef is going to do? We’ll start with that one. Well, I thought doing a live dissection in his presser uh about his putting technique. It was a pretty interesting take. Shows you there’s some frailty there. Um, you got Phil Kenyon on board now, isn’t he? But this this course is a ball striker golf course, isn’t it? I think I think you know some of the stuff I have read and looked at. It’s a really it’s a hilly piece of property. I mean clipped put out quite an interesting piece about elevation change and stuff that is to me feels like doing two 36 whole days on Friday and Saturday is going to be a stretch. So I think it’s going to be less dependent on how a small subset of players perform and more about how the team perform collectively. I don’t know what your guys takes on that. Well, just sorry to jump in, Bruce. Speaking of 236 whole days, the world number one over the last So, let’s start from the beginning. As Bruce mentioned, the world rankings were brought in in uh 1986, 6th of April 1986. It was called first ever, don’t know. It’s called the Sony ranking. It changed the world ranking in 1997, world golf ranking, the OGR as we know it now. Um, of all the world number ones or the best players in the world, which I should there is a difference. The best players in the world that were playing, uh, how many of them haven’t played five matches? Jumping off your 36 a day. How many of the world number haven’t played all five matches in a rider cup? So, there’s been how many riders? Must be loads. Must be loads. I would I would say most. I would say most because we’re talking about 30 or 40 years here. I would say I would say 15. 17 RDER Cups there’s been how many of them haven’t played all five matches. Um well some some of them won’t be European or GP say lots. Yeah I would say a lot of them have not played all five. No I I think it’s to the contrary I’m going to say cuz Tiger was a world number one for a significant stretch of that wasn’t he? Um yeah I I think the overwhelming consensus is that they’ll have played five sessions. Okay. So, of the 17 RDER Cups, there have only been two 17 Ryder Cups since the OGR started. There have only been two RDER Cups where the the best player in the field. So, just to clarify when I we this is discussion point. Sometimes the world number one wasn’t playing VJ, Greg Norman, Jason Day. So we’ve got some people that were world number one, but the the the highest ranked OJ WGR player in the field. Mental Jason T one the best was the world number one. That’s 2016. Yeah. Um so of the 17 Ryder Cups, only two RDER Cups did they not play all five sessions. Wow. And do you know which ones they were? Yep. It was Ian Wam in 91 and DJ in 2016 who was world number two at the time. Interesting. Which year? Sorry. Uh 2016. He was world number two at the time. Jason Day was world number one. That was at Hazeline. DJ played four out of five matches. Uh in so 2021 Ram was world number one I’m guessing. Correct. Yeah. Five five matches. Played all five sessions, didn’t he? Wow. So they’ve all played all five matches with the exception of Wooie and DJ. So, so Sheffler will add his name to that list if he doesn’t play all five, which I I highly doubt he will this week if I’m being completely frank. I I don’t I don’t I’m with you. I think it’s someone has to I think there’s four people that have to play all five sessions. Oh, is that how it works mathematically? I think so. I might be proven wrong on this. Well, everyone has to play the singles and then you’ve got uh eight players. eight players across four sessions across two days. Yeah, I don’t know how it would work. I can’t expect you to do that modeling on top of your head despite your PhD in mathematics which massive whatever. Um but you know that is quite interesting in of itself. I suppose you just be interesting to see if Sheffler plays all five all five matches. If history would say that the Sheffler plays all five matches, I’m with you. I think it’s a very difficult golf course to loop five times in three days. M um granted he’s not carrying a pencil bag uh or a or drone a camera, no water. Um but it it it it’s interesting. It’s interesting point. You want to try You want to try playing Church Stratton in 40°ree heat with no water on board for 4 hours. That’ll take it out of the That’s That’s the new Ryder Cup. The Sam Williams Cup. That should be the test. You get in the g fast lane. Um did you get a sense of who the world number one has been paired with in terms of the profile? I did not look at pairings. However, I did look at performance impaired events. So, I’m I’m looking more along the lines of performance. So, let’s start at the let’s start at um the really basic thing. Uh how what percentage roughly do you think the world number one was on the winning side going back to 1986? Well, I think Woods’s record completely. You’ll be surprised. It ain’t that bad. So, I’m going to say the world number one has been on the winning side 60% of the time. Okay. Bruce. Bruce. No, I’d say a third. 33. It’s 47% of the time. And that is heavily skewed by the people that weren’t number one at the time. Now, if you explicitly go to world number on’s literally, so take out the number TWS cuz Greg Norman wasn’t there or VJ wasn’t there. So if you only look if you were number one at the time you were only on the winning team 30% of the time. Yeah. That’s cuz Woods lost. Baldo lost. Tiger lost one, two, three, four times. Rory lost twice. Uh when did he lose? 2016. I’m looking at the wrong thing. I’m only looking at them once. Wisdom lost. Fo lost. Tiger lost three times. Dustin Johnson lost. Ra. the only people that won. Rory won twice and Tiger won once when he was world number one in they are the only people to have won a Ryder Cup as world number one. Okay, let’s just restate that chronologically. The only players to have won a Ryder Cup as world number one. Tiger was in 1999. Rory Madina 2012 2012 and and Rory at Glenn Eagles 2040. That’s it. That’s the sound bite for this week’s podcast. That’s absurd. They’re the only now that if you introduce then the best player in the field, you get the distinction there. I don’t high ranked player. Well, yeah. The highest ranked player once you drop the which Pacific, etc. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So for instance, Sevy 8789 was world number two. Um he won in Mu Virgin 87. He won in or they drew in the belfry but they retained the Ryder Cup in ‘ 89. Um interestingly who is the This is another stupid stat. What do you think is the the the the lowest higher ranked player? So, if it’s not world number one, how far down the list do you think it goes? Well, I think that one of Bruce’s sounds pretty nuts in the hundreds. Wasn’t I I mean, I don’t know. I I’m not phrasing this right. I I I don’t No, I think what you’re asking is what’s the what’s the lowest ranked player to to have played in a Ryder Cup? No, I think so. I think what you’re saying, Mills, if if I if Well, what I’m taking you to say there is who is the highest ranked player on his side, but the lowest ranked to have actually won a Ryder Cup, if that makes sense. That’s terrible questioning. I’ll I’ll just give you the answer and then explain. So in 95, Faldo was the highest ranked player in the field, but he was fourth in the world. Okay. Because you had Greg Norman, Nick Price, and Ernie Owls all above him that obviously weren’t eligible because they’re not from that part. Yeah. Yeah. Uh that’s an interesting Well, another interesting one would be who like what’s the lowest ranked European side that’s ever That would have been um someone to go look. What do you want to jump? I’ve got lots of things here like what jumps off the page to you as being the most interesting I suppose some of the playing records has there been what’s the worst ever playing record by a world number one I’d be I’d be interested in that sort low to high okay the worst performance of a world number one uh since it began was Dustin Johnson in France in France the country yeah in golf national he won he His record was 140. So 1-1 lost four drew 20%. He lost his he lost both his foresomes and he only won one for all. That is crazy. And that feels like you know you would say win ratio in that um in that are there any other kind of close runs also runs in that category? really Wooham who was one obviously infamously one of the people that hasn’t played all five matches as as world number one listeners know as as they all should know Wenham got 25% he was 13 and0 because he obviously got dropped for one so he was he he would have been contending for one 4 and0 I think uh three and 0 he lost remarkable he managed to still still contest in that stand even though he’s one of the least played world number one as well Tiger could always get a couple though, couldn’t he? Cuz he’s a pretty safe bet for his singles. Third is Tiger in the Valorama who only won 30% of his matches or or got 30% of the points available. Uh won three and one. Lost his singles, lost his foresomes, drew a forsomes, and then won one for ball and lost one football. Has anyone gone five and0? There must be a couple. Uh not of world number ones. uh one no world number one. So I’d rank this the other way around. So let’s do this this way. The best performance of a world number one or highest ranked player uh is Sebi in 87 who won four out of five matches. He was world number two at the time but he’s good. What did he get in the other? Was it half? No, he lost. It was 41 and0. 41. Uh so he won his singles. both of his forsomes he won and he lost one of the four balls. Uh interestingly John Ram last last outing in Whistling Straits 70%. Three and a half out of five points. That’s an all world performance on a on an alltime poor performance for Europe. Well he didn’t 40% of the whole points for Europe, wasn’t it? He he he said it in his press conference this week how um he he played really well in 2021. He was world number one. He won a few matches with Sergio. Lost his singles um but played a lot better than in 2018 when he was on the winning side and he’s like I didn’t play that well even though he beat Tiger in his It’s funny, isn’t it? Stats. Also, if you’d like some bounceback ability stats, just while we’re out there, even though DJ in 2018 got got one out of five, that’s like 20% when he was world number one, in the next RDER Cup, uh, he got five out of five. So, yeah. Um, what do you mean? So, he did go five and eight when he was not world number one in the the one. Okay, got you. So, not as world number one, but he there have been some Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So amazing what you can pull out in right here’s an interesting thing that I’ve I’ve pulled out of this. So you are if you include Sevy why not if you include the people that weren’t number number ones and did all right you’re 47% uh on the winning side. So you’re more likely to lose than you are to win. Um looking at their points there’s you know again 47% roughly there. They all tend there tends to be like a a they tend to do well in the singles. So the overall performance over this the last 17 RER cups are is 96 and two. So they won nine, lost six, drew two. The world number ones or highest rank player on the field. They tend to do okay in the foroms. It’s 153 and four. Where they fall down is the four balls which I thought was quite interesting because if you got the best player in the world in a four ball better ball format sort of it though, doesn’t it? I think I think I always find four ball as a format is it’s so much slower to swing. It’s so much slower for things to move because you know even though they are world number one you are in the world of diminishing returns aren’t you? So you still have the best players throwing loads of birdies at the card and loads of opportunity and I suppose they just their their individual performance in a better ball environment versus forsomes just becomes diminished. I don’t know if that’s fair to say, but be my kind of take. I don’t know. Just an interesting surprised by um the four balls as well. I I wondered whether it’s because you know if you’re if you’re two people against the world number one, you’ve got twice as much chance of like doing well. And then if you’re with the world number one in your team, perhaps you think, well, I can just rely on them. I don’t know. Absolutely don’t know. But it’s interesting takeaway nonetheless. Um so that’s it. I I kind of had a look back at some, you know, how the performance of some cuz I only went back to obviously 1986. I had a look at some of the um the players that were renowned as the best players in the world and how they did. But it was kind of fate to complete because it was you know Nicholas Palmer that era we just got trounced. So like they’ve got really good performances. Um you know Nicholas that was magnificent. Nicholas was was Yeah. Anyway, I’m talking about you boys. I quite enjoyed doing that just as a format for profiling. I thought that was quite interesting. Um, yeah, just picking your own little discrete area and just sort of tuning into a few obscure little nuggets. It’s quite good because it is an overfacing topic and I suppose I would be genuinely curious. I know to like always say it, but I would be really interested in what people think on doing that as a bit of a format for a podcast. It’s quite interesting. you. We’ve literally taken for listeners’s benefit, you know, some time to throw some stuff down on a few Google sheets and play around with a topic on our own and come armed with a few bullets to talk about, which I don’t know about you, I found that quite intimidating leading the charge on captains, thinking I’d just plowed a load of stuff down in bullet form. How on earth am I going to present this back to you guys? But actually makes quite an interesting um discussion and actually quite interesting. You end up pulling out nuggets just just, you know, where things take you largely Wikipedia, golf compendium. Uh there’s so many great resources out there, but um and the RDER Cup timeline’s actually quite good. You know, I think um there’s some great stuff on there. You know, you mentioned that 47 match um Sam with Ben Hogan there and there’s like some great nuggets. They’ve got quite a nice interactive timeline, you know. Yeah. Yeah. The 47 and the 49 matches. There’s like a nice story there about there being in one year um Charles Wickham sort of said the Americans were playing illegally conforming grooves and then Hogan goes back the next year at Ganton says I think the European I think the GB side’s playing you know illegal equipment the RNA get Bernard Darwin to come and have a look like there’s some there’s actually some really nice little anecdotes on the on the Ryder Cup official website so yeah urge you all to to check that out too and I think I think a dissection of some of the history of the bification and equipment stuff it would be brilliant the number of times that crops up in research of different things like you say the groove patterns which was absolutely negligible when you consider some of the other improvements that that come in into the game as uh throughout time is is pretty impressive. So um gent there yeah I mean come on let’s let’s let’s let’s finish it with predictions. I was going to say, yeah, we’d be making a rod for our own back, but I still think we need to do it anyway. We’ve got a history of stuff that ages like milk, so let’s go. Well, I’m going to I’ll lead the charge then. So, I’m just going to base my prediction solely on where my research has led, which is clearly not going to be correct, but I’ll just base it purely on what my research tells me. It tells me that in the last 10 years or last over 10 years in fact, a Ryder Cup captain that has not won a major championship stands much better steed um than a Ryder Cup captain who has won one. That tells me Luke Donald’s side is, you know, unequivocally going to pick this pick this one up and and and win the RDER Cup back for the team. I’m so skewed because Europe Europeans just don’t win majors as much. I know, I know, I know, I know. I’m also going to throw some something else onto the fire. I think that over a certain period if I look at how Sutton and his worst performance arguably in modern era as an American captain at Oakland Hills they lost 8 and a half 18 and a half to 9 and a half. If you look at the profile the younger players uh performed well in that amazingly USA only had one player under the age of 30 in 198 in in in that year um and that person was Tiger Woods. Um, this year the Europeans have six players in their 20s versus five in the US. Both teams have four rookies in their field. Again, that points to a landslide team Europe victory. Um, I’m going to couple that in with the evidence you presented, Tom, about world number one. Can I can I give can I give my own evidence? Okay, I’ll I’ll there. My research is telling me unequivocally team Europe cannot lose this on the basis Luke Donald has never won a major. Two follow-up questions for you, Sam, just quickly because I think we need to add this to the mix. Best performing player. Worst performing player. Shoot from the hip. I’m gonna say Aber. I’m going to say which one? For which one? What do you mean? Best perform best performing player be a Okay. Worst performing. Worst performing. I’m going to go Hatton. I just don’t like the guy. I love I love how European centric you’ve been. You’ve just you’ve treated that question purely from a European standpoint. Doesn’t he want to entertain those stats for the Americans? But that’s that’s fair. No, I don’t know. I think I think we I think we are, you know, joke I’m just literally from the hip there. I I you know, there’s so much talked about Justin Thomas being out of form and I just don’t see that when you put it put it in the ring that he’s just going to get played off the park. Um I think he might play less matches, Justin Thomas. I think therefore he might be a contender for not picking up as many points, but um I honestly haven’t got a clue. So much goes down to um you know what happens out there. I suppose I you know in the back of my mind I feel like Aberg is untested in this environment and given the terrain and stuff they’re all going to have to play a fairly consistent number of games would be my expectation and therefore there’s a little bit that hangs on the performance of the rookies in my view particularly when you think people like Aberg. I love to see that we picked Aberg and Hoygard. There is an element where if it goes badly against us, then we look at them and they go, they were Hail Mary picks and we were just trying to blood them. But I think if it pays off, then it’ll be a an inspired decision by Luke Donald. I think that Sam is basing all this on one text message that he’s had from one friend that said Aber is quite good when you watch suddenly basing everything. No, he’s not. But I mean, he is completely I mean, he’s never played in a major championship for a kickoff. Exactly. That’s not a good thing. No, I know. That’s what I’m saying. He is completely unproven in this in this environment. Um Um the signs are good. You go. I’m I’m going to go with my research would suggest the world number one is on losing side. So, I’m going to say Europe going to win based on research only. Top point scorer I think is he’s going to play in all five matches. I think it’s going to be Justin Thomas. Um if that happens, America will win by the way. Um, uh, Justin Thomas, I think the the person that perform the worst is Aber. Yeah, fair. D, that’s a bad shout, actually. Your captain’s pick is so much more nuanced. What does it tell you? Well, it tells me that there’s not really much to choose here, I don’t think. and Dak Johnson has almost tried to break away and go down a different route to previous US captains in not only he had six picks but he’s as has been talked about to death over the last few weeks um he’s picked people who are good friends Justin Thomas Sam Burns they’re part of that collection Ricky Fowler as well Fowler interestingly got a shocking win percentage at the Ryder Cup of about 36% which bodess well for the Europeans but in the interest of um par fairness whatever you want to call it being a bit different. I’m going to go for a US win. Bit reverse psychology there. Uh I think America are going to win. I think Sheffller is going to be the top point scorer. He’s going to buck the trend of world number ones. And I think that the worst performing player is going to be Seb Straer or Bob Mack. Hate to say it, but I just got a feeling. Um so I’m going to leave it there. Gentlemen, that’s been an absolute joy of that podcast. I think we should wrap it up there. Good fun. Well played everyone. Yeah, let’s um keep our eyes glued to the screens over the next few days. Um and keep those ears peeled at all times. Adios. Watch this. [Applause] [Music] No way. [Music] [Applause]
