The Bridge : S02-E02 | Ft Didier Drogba, Tony Parker, Kameto & Paul de Saint Sernin (🇬🇧 SUB)

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C’est un glitch dans le multivers
La crème de la crème.
Les histoires les plus fortes de notre époque.
Ce n’est pas juste un autre « show », c’est un monument que l’on va construire tous ensemble
Bienvenue sur The Bridge !

The Bridge est produit par Excellence Sport Nation et co-animé par Aurélien Tchouameni, avec Sébastien Abdelhamid.

Dans ce deuxième épisode de la saison 2 de The Bridge, Sébastien Abdelhamid et Aurélien Tchouameni ont reçu au Teatro Las Vegas de Madrid :

🐘Le légendaire et redoutable Didier Drogba
🏀Le pionnier et hall of fame Tony Parker
🎮Le CEO préféré de ton CEO préféré Kameto
🎯Le Sniper et roi du malaise Paul de Saint-Sernin

Dans cet épisode de The Bridge, il est question de rêves et de transformations.

Didier Drogba a partagé avec nous les moments de doute qu’il a connu lors de son arrivée à Chelsea et la déchirure qu’a représenté son départ de l’Olympique de Marseille. Dans la discussion Didier Drogba a aussi narré son incroyable évolution à Chelsea qui lui a permis de s’imposer dans l’une des toutes meilleures équipes de Premier League.

Tony Parker nous raconte que dès son plus jeune âge, il s’est distingué par son obsession de marquer son sport de son empreinte. Premier Français à avoir remporté la NBA avec les San Antonio Spurs et intronisé au Hall of Fame, Tony Parker nous a livré de véritables leçons sur l’humilité et l’esprit d’équipe.

Kameto a quant à lui retracé ses débuts dans le streaming et dans le cercle très fermé alors des équipes de e-sport. Sa vision et sa passion ont changé les codes du secteur en profondeur.

Enfin Paul de Saint-Sernin a partagé avec nous l’esprit qui l’anime sur scène et en plateau. Toujours sur un fil dans The Bridge comme à la ville, il a multiplié les bons mots, les propos forts et les réflexions fort à propos.

Sébastien Abdelhamid et Aurélien Tchouameni ont reformé leur duo, le fameux double pivot sur cet épisode pour vous offrir une belle discussion sur un plateau.

Bonne lecture, et faites nous profiter de vos retours !

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00:00 – Intro
01:58 – Les débuts et l’étincelle
18:02 – Tony étranger en France ?
22:47 – Le jour où Didier a arrêté une guerre
31:25 – Le jour où Kameto a gagné une guerre
36:20 – Comment Kameto a changé le game
40:45 – Les rivalités et le vestiaire
51:40 – Choquer et sortir du cadre
59:17 – La transformation de Didier
01:03:55 – L’ego et l’esprit d’équipe
01:08:38 – Amour passion et retour manqué à l’OM
01:17:53 – La transformation physique de Kameto
01:22:55 – Les clubs de coeur
01:26:00 – Les petites victoires de Paul
01:27:42 – Savourer l’instant et repartir de l’avant
01:32:47 – Le duo Drogba & Crespo
01:36:46 – le mot de la fin

Hi everyone! We’re back again today
for a new episode of The Bridge. Here, in this amazing venue,
the Teatro Las Vegas in Madrid. And, as usual,
with top-quality guests. A star-studded line-up. Today, we welcome an Ivorian
international soccer legend, winner of the Champions League
and a host of championships. Of course, I’m talking
about Mr Didier Drogba. A French and NBA basketball
legend, Tony Parker. An Internet legend,
caster, streamer, owner of an esport team,
Kameto. And, the comedy sniper,
a really popular comedian, who’s also
really talented, of course: Paul de Saint Sernin. You already know
the drill: The Bridge is On. Welcome to a new
episode of The Bridge. Thank you all for being here. Today, it’s a bit crazy
because we’ve got a line-up with profiles that aren’t necessarily
related to each other in some respects. And, yet…
– Top-quality line-up. Insane line-up! But, in my opinion, this is the line-up where you’ve
all got most in common, and, of course,
with the viewers watching us too. Exactly, we’ve got loads
of bridges to build. Like I said,
thanks for coming today. It’s a pleasure to be able
to share this moment with you. And, I wanted to start
with you, Tony. I don’t know if you know, but your paths have already crossed,
several times. A long time ago.
– A long time ago? Well, you see, people
often ask me: “did you know when you were little
that you’d be able to play for Real, or play for the world’s greatest
club, or whatever?” You played for Paris?
– No. Of course. But, when I see Tony, when I see you, from what
I hear, right from the start, you were someone
“programmed” in quotes. Everyone always said:
“yeah, he’s going to become…” what you’ve actually become. And that’s where our paths crossed.
I come from Canteleu. Ah, Canteleu!
– Cité Verte housing project. We need to show it on the map
because no-one knows it. Well, sorry! As if he’d said London.
– Rouen suburbs. I was born in Rouen,
but I don’t know it. You were born in Rouen,
you grew up in a small village, so, take it easy, okay. And, your dad was my coach. I don’t know if you remember?
– He’d do the rounds of the housing projects. That’s right and our paths crossed
several times in the playground. When we were kids, we’d see you with the guys
from the district, etc., we’d see your dad
and we didn’t understand. We thought that
you were showing off and all. But, in fact,
looking back now, you were already determined
back then… You already knew where you were heading,
what you were doing. Isn’t that right?
– Yes. But, how old are we talking about?
– 12 years old! Yeah. 10 or 11.
– Even a bit less. It was 30 years ago, you see. But that’s sort of
French mindset too. When you’ve got great self-confidence
and you say things, it bothers people a bit in France,
especially when you’re young. Now though, I think that mindsets
have changed a bit. But, back then, it’s true that when
I said I wanted to become the first French guy in the NBA,
people thought I was insane. Especially, if you put things
in context a bit. Back then, there were no Europeans,
really no French in the NBA, so, it may have looked
like I was being arrogant. But, as my dad was American,
I saw this like: to succeed, you need self-confidence
and attitude’s the most important thing. I grew up in a home
with an American father with this side where
you have to have great confidence. And, my mother was Dutch so, I had this European side
that helps keep your feet on the ground. And, I feel as if I grew up
with the best of both worlds. So, I made my little explosive
cocktail and I knew that maybe there’d be players
who were faster than me, who were
stronger, bigger. But, if there was one thing I didn’t want
them to beat me at, it was attitude. And, when the lights
come on in the hall and you have to shoot
at the right time, I’d be ready. There you go, you already had the mindset
and it’s clear that we had no vision. We played for the fun of it
and we’d no aspirations. We watched Jordan
on TV at the most. It’s a bit because when you
start playing sport in France, back then, people said: “the most important
thing is to take part”. And, I’d an issue
with that expression. Because, to start with,
my father’s American, my idol’s Jordan. So, it’s not at all
that mindset. Then after, when I saw 98
and France winning the soccer with Zizou, with Titi,
that inspired me. And, I wanted
to do the same thing for my sport. We’d never won a gold
medal in basketball. So, it
became a motivation to show that French guys
can play basketball. Because Americans
are really chauvinistic. As far as they’re concerned, they’re the best
in basketball. No-one comes close. Especially back then. It was even more
exaggerated back then. So, as my father’s American,
I wanted to show them. When we went to Chicago on holiday,
I wanted to go to the playgrounds and show that, here in France,
we know how to play basketball too. And, you Didier, did you have this motivation right
from the start to want to become… Well, “hello” first.
“Hello Didier Drogba”. A bit of politeness.
“How are you?” Pleasure to meet you.
– Delighted. Hello Didier Drogba.
– Hello the legend. We can say loads of things. It’s true that… same thing, from an early age,
I had this motivation. I said to my father: “I’m going
to become a professional soccer player. He was against it because, back then,
soccer wasn’t a profession… It wasn’t a profession.
– It wasn’t a profession that was rewarding like it is now.
It was more of a passion. When I told him: “I want to be a professional soccer player”
and when I arrived at my uncle’s in France, because I left Côte d’Ivoire when
I was six and I lived at my uncle’s and that was a really hard time. But, my uncle was a professional
second division player, so I went to the match
with him one day, and I watched the players. I saw the interaction
between the players and the public. And I thought: “when I’m older,
I want to do this”. But, at what point did you see the light
where you said okay, you saw your uncle who was a professional,
at what point? Like Tony who said to himself:
“my goal’s going to be this”. There wasn’t…,
there wasn’t any plan B, it was that or nothing. Was there a point
where you said… Perhaps…
– That very day, there. It was that very day. I said to myself:
“this is what I want to do. Then after, everything I did,
I signed my first cap however,
when I was 11, for Dunkirk. And, I started as right back and I headed down the wing like that,
Lilian Thuram-style, I came in and with my left foot, I zoomed past,
I kicked and I scored. And my uncle saw me. He came to see me
in the match and said: “Why are you playing right back!”
It was the only position left. So, the coach had put me there. He said to me: “No, no, in our family,
we’re strikers, so, you’re not going
to stay in this position”. How was I going to explain that
to the coach? I said nothing. I finished my season like that,
then we moved to Abbeville. When we arrived in Abbeville, the coach
asked me: “What position do you play?” I said: “center-forward”. I’d never
played center-forward. He said: “center forward”.
So, I started and scored goal after goal. I think I scored over 40 goals
that year. And, that’s how it all started. Talking about mindset
and career path, you, Kamel,
because you began with the basics,
you’re just a video game freak. Yeah, that’s right. So, how come you’re not
just a streamer today, you’re a CEO, you’ve got an esport team,
but not just a team, an academy. Basically, it has led
to loads of things. I’ve come a long way.
But, me, my first,
my first go with esports, well, Didier’s in it because I live
in Corbeil-Essonnes. That’s right. And we had the PES Tour.
I can’t remember exactly what it was. PES League
– PES League! There was a tournament at the Sports Center. And, I was
already a video gaming freak. I played in the community center,
I’d my own PlayStation, I played every day at home,
I was a real video game addict, and I took part in my first tournament on PES5
at the Sports Center in Corbeil-Essonnes. So, that was my first esports tournament, and the first time that I understood
what is was all about. So, it was the first time
that I’d entered a video gaming competition. And, since then,
I’ve been mad about it. I started, I remember,
I was out of the pools, I was a 10-year-old kid. I got
knocked out in the quarter finals by a crazy dad. He didn’t give a damn.
– He’d no mercy. No mercy at all. And I was hot-headed, I remember,
even at the age of 10, the guy next to me was old. “You got really lucky”. I looked all innocent and all. So, yeah, basically,
I lost in the quarter finals. Then after,
I continued gaming until senior high. I was able to buy myself a PC in high school, I worked to buy a PC and I discovered South Korea. South Korea was
a different world in relation to… Not North Korea?
– No, no, not at all. How did you discover it? Basically, I bought Starcraft. And, that’s one of the world’s
most best-known esports games, etc. Back then, it was Starcraft 2.
– Online gaming. Online gaming.
So, I started to play, etc. And, after, I went on to YouTube.
I had a look. And, I thought: “There must be
competitions here”. So, I clicked. There was a competition
known as the GSL. it was in South Korea. Stadiums full,
crowds… What year was that?
– It was my first year of high school. I think it was about 2009-2010,
I don’t remember, something like that. So, you said that
was going to be your thing? I saw it. I said to myself:
“That’s for me, I want to do that”. Yeah, no, was streaming… There were streamers,
but it was still at an early stage. But, I really wanted to do
esports, competition. Okay so. You wanted to do esports?
– Yeah. Video gaming competition. We saw Didier, for example,
when he told his dad: “Me, I want to become a soccer player”.
What did you say to your parents? Because, back then,
I’m a bit older, what was the dream?
It was to become a soccer player, a basketball player,
or a video game tester. But a video game player,
what did you say to your parents? There was nothing to say. Already, back then, when you
wanted to play, they’d take away the console. My mother let me play for two hours and then she’d say:
“come on, put that away”. And, she’d hide it under lock and key, etc.
I had to find ways and means to be able to play because
I was really driven by it. You have to practice.
– Yeah, you have to practice. And, as soon as I’d got my PC,
I’d my little tricks, as soon as someone would open
the door, I’d have my school book open. I’d switch off the screen, tack, tack,
I’d lose my game play. So, I’d be pissed and after
I’d try to get back in the game. But, when I told my parents
that I wanted to make my living out of Internet, out of gaming, and then streaming, It was like no way, it didn’t exist.
No-one makes a living out of streaming. Soccer player, though, you’ve got examples. You’ve got training centers.
It’s professional. Yes, but it’s generational, Because, back then,
soccer wasn’t perceived
as a real profession. And a few years later
it’s you and… Exactly.
– And… streaming. Exactly.
And, I had an offer to go and stream in England. There was a French company based
in England which hired streamers. And, based on your gaming level,
I’d moved on to League of Legends, and I’d a good level, I took part in tournaments,
etc. And, I had an offer
to go and live in England. I told my parents.
For my parents, it was no way. But, I couldn’t help myself.
So, I went anyway. I sort of like
ran away, you see. No way!
– I swear, I sort of ran away. That’s a great piece of advice to give.
– No way! It’s awful! It’s awful. It’s awful,
but it’s really my story. Basically, my father said to me: “no, no way,
you’re staying at home, and all, it’s not for you, there’s no
future in that”, etc. And, I understand now looking back. And, one day, I said to my mother: “the offer’s too
tempting, it’s a springboard. I know if I go
there, I’ll succeed”. So, I got my Eurostar.
I left. But, how old were you?
– I was 18 back then. Okay.
– To be a good streamer and a good esport player,
you have to listen to your parents. What about North Korea? Worst program. It’s funny when I listen
a bit to what you’re saying, I’d like to go back to what you were saying Tony in relation to the fact that
you already knew what you wanted to become
when you were really young. And, when I look at you, Paul, tell me if I’m wrong, but you come
from a pretty well-off family. I come from a family
that’s really traditional I was never in want
or anything, but it’s far from being…
– Say you’ve got megabucks. Well, no actually. People often associate
the family name “de Saint-Sernin” with being a daddy’s boy with a Ferrari
and a lock of hair like that. With me, it’s more like…
to give you an example, Of course, I’ve never been
in want of anything and that’s brilliant. It’s more like, a family with loads of kids,
really strict, old-school. Do you say “vous” to your parents?
– Really religious. I use “vous” in French for my parents.
– Even today? Yes, even today.
– So, why don’t you use “vous” with us then? Because you’re not his father! I saw you, you were like that,
in Bordeaux, so stay cool! No, but, actually… I don’t remember what you said…
– Well-off, yes, but it’s more like…
– Traditional. More like military
traditional than… And, how did you find your path?
Because, you see, we’ve seen that everybody here,
from when they were really young, said:
“this is what I want to become”. Did you feel that too
or did it happen over time? Did you try to find your feet a bit?
– I imagine that maybe your parents had
expectations, you see? That’s right,
I was going to bounce back on that. On running away or…
– A bit, a bit. I think we’ve got things in common
where, at a given time, you heed yourself more, you make your choices,
which are illogical to the world, and you heed yourself. Didier, 19 years ago,
tell me if I’m wrong, he was at PSG, a contract
was placed on the table. It was his first.
And the guy says: “Hold on, I’m going to
print something, wait here”. The guy didn’t come back.
Didier, hold on… And, at some point, he couldn’t help it,
it didn’t feel right, so he left. Am I right?
– Yeah, that’s right. And, he’s sorry he didn’t get the Opel Tigra. Exactly. This story… And, you see, You tell this story to everybody, everybody says to you:
“Stay in the room. Sign up for PSG, take your car,
take your contract”. And, basically, it’s illogical
for everybody. For him, deep in his heart,
it’s what he should have done. And, life proved him right. A bit like your story to jump
on a Eurostar, for everybody… You’re not going to play
video games when you’re 18, you’re going to go study. But it worked.
For me, it was a bit the same, I got my scientific Baccalaureate
two years early. I was a good student,
engineering school… Really good student. – And, I started by being
a journalist at Canal+ TV. The youngest TV host,
they offered me a contract. Were you a sports journalist then?
– Yeah, I love soccer, I’m a soccer freak. What’s more, it’s really something
to be sitting next to you, and you, and Tony too. For me,
it’s really great. Ah, no,
we stink actually. No. I like you a lot.
– He’s right. I like you a lot.
– He’s faking it. You never won a NBA title.
– What? But I played at NBA Live. He was on the sleeve. Anyway… So, Canal+ offered me this contract.
And, basically, for everybody, I had to take this contract, because, in journalism,
contracts are pretty hard to come by. And, I went off and told jokes
in bars and in restaurants, in front of people
in the evening, who didn’t listen to me, and we were paid cash, we got
a few bucks, i.e. we passed the hat around. It wasn’t a logical choice at all. For me, it was what I wanted
to do. I needed to express myself. Yeah, that’s it.
You need to express yourself. First of all, you start off
as a journalist, but you know that journalism
is just something, in the end, a means to access
something else, where you just want to express
things in different ways? I’d have loved to have had this plan
in my mind. But I didn’t have it at all. I knew I had to get away
from engineering, maths and physics, eight hours of maths & physics
a day. I had to escape that. What do you love in life?
Soccer, sport? You’ll never be a player
because you’re too lousy. What can you do that’s
in line with this world? Journalist. And, that’s how I started out.
As a sports fan. When you’re a journalist, you
realize that your job is to talk about
their lives, his life. You say: “today,
Tony won xxx title”, “Aurélien played xxx match, was
selected for the French team” “Didier did this and that…” And, you don’t create your own thing. Basically, it’s a job where you say:
“xxx singer released xxx album”, “xxx politician voted for xxx law,
and xxx player won xxx match”. And, at a certain point, I needed to create,
I needed to do something. I said to
myself, otherwise it’s disposable. Every day, I go on TV,
I present my news flash and then I discard it, and the next day…
But, I don’t create And, that’s what made me
think at a point in time: “great to talk about other people’s lives”,
and it does fascinate me, I read bios and all,
I love that, guys’ lives, I know your lives inside out, but, I also need
to create my own. So, I left,
I gave up on journalism. Okay, so,
going back to Aurel’s question, what did your family think about that? When I left engineering
to become a journalist, it was a bit weird, because, it’s true that, in my family,
everybody’s in traditional lines of work, there are doctors, military guys,
and stuff. A bit wacky really,
like leaping into the unknown. And, as it had worked first time round,
when I left engineering for journalism, it had worked,
I ended up on TV. My parents were reassured. So, when
I said: “I’m quitting journalism and going to tell
jokes in bars”, they said: “we’re going to
trust him”. And, they supported me. You see, I’m not going to tell
a fake story, like: “they were against it”.
That’s not true. They supported me, they were there,
they loved it, they said: “do what you have
to do, we trust you”. I’d like to challenge
you on something. And, I’d like to go back to
what you said earlier Tony and perhaps on how people
perceive you or perceived you, because I’m inclined to think,
and tell me if I’m wrong, that in the US you’re French
or in the US you’re a foreigner, but, in France, it seems as if
you’re a foreigner too? That’s totally right. And, this image or this perception
that people have of you, the fact that you’re loved or not
loved, that you’re arrogant or not, even Didier, you… if we look,
you played for Marseille for a year, but it’s as if you played there
fifteen years, and you, as a journalist
or ex-journalist, whatever, who was in this circle, I’d like to know a bit
what you think, how celebrities
are perceived, you see, via journalism, because, in the end,
sometimes… the narrative can be totally
modified whereas it’s not even real. The question is: why is Tony
not an idol? He’s an idol in France, but why doesn’t he represent
the Blue-White-Red colors? The Marianne? Because, in the end, I think: I think that Tony, his journey,
if we talk about Tony, his sports career
is undeniable. When it comes to his image, it’s as if sometimes
people have a distorted view, not even negative perhaps,
but full of assumptions. Do you feel this,
or not at all? Well, to start with, when I’m
in the US, I’m definitely seen as French. That’s for sure.
For them, I’m French. And, I’ve always been
really proud of it, because when we won
the NBA titles, I always pulled out
the French flag. I’m really proud
to be French. Then again, when I come back to France,
it’s a bit different. People still speak to me in English today
when I’m in France. Some people come to me
and speak in English with a really French accent. But, I’m French,
you can talk to me in French. It’s funny. Is it
because of the time difference? Is it because our matches take place
at 3 o’clock in the morning? Is people’s love for basketball different
to that of soccer? I’m talking about my time,
because, nowadays, the NBA, nowadays, in Europe,
it has really reached a peak, but, back in my days… Partly thanks to you. I was the first French guy.
And, when you’re the first, when you have to push back barriers,
it’s always a bit harder, so to speak. – You’ve got the whole world on your shoulders.
– Exactly. Then again, now, the new generation,
they really appreciate me, because they’re always saying that
I was the first, “it’s thanks to Tony”. Then again, when it comes to
the general public, I don’t know. I’ve honestly felt a lot of love
from people since I came back to France
and since I’ve been living in France, I’ve felt a lot of love. When it comes to the press,
and things like that, you’ll always have people trying to
find a fly in the ointment. But, that’s all part of the game.
It’s the price of fame. Personally-speaking,
it doesn’t bother me that much, because it’s part and parcel of success. Then again, my close circle in
the world of sport, and all, when you see the OGs and all the love
that I received from Tony Estanguet, French President Macron, well,
I was well represented, I even ran
with the Olympic torch. That’s why,
I’d still say that France… I see what you’re getting at. And, it’s interesting
because, who are… the people who represent
France around the world? It’s Zinédine Zidane, Tony Parker, Teddy Riner, Have I forgotten anybody? I don’t
want to make a mistake. Thierry Henry. Kameto. No, but really…
He represented France. And, I see what you mean. And, I think that the OGs,
it’s good that you mentioned them, set the records straight a bit, and reminded us who represented
France abroad and who were actually
our ambassadors. Totally. And, you’ve got a tiny percentage
of the population, and which is often highly politicized,
which refuses this, but 80% of French people, I believe, Tony, he’s here.
Thierry Henry, he’s here. Zizou, he’s here. Teddy, he’s here.
Game over. I think we’ve got less of this problem
today that you’re trying to bring out. But, I think we’ve got the same problem.
And, you mentioned Thierry Henry, and there’s a
parallel to be drawn too on… during…
once again I think on before. But, Titi, he experienced that and
Titi and I talked about it a lot, because Titi… when you look at
what happened in 2010, it was even worse than for me, of course. And everyone know that
I get on really well with Titi, he’s like my big brother and it’s clear
that it wasn’t easy at a certain time. In France, it was as if everyone
hated him even though he was one of the greatest sportsmen
in the history of France. But I think that, bit by bit,
things changed, he took on this ambassador role,
let’s say on TV. He’d be back on TV often
to talk about the French Championship, and then, after, he won this brilliant
silver medal in the OGs. So, I think that, now,
he’s back in the place where he should be,
like you said. Because, in the end,
when I think back over all that, I believe that, as an icon,
like you, you have the ability to
pass on messages. And, that’s something that
people have to understand too. If I take your case, Didier… What was it? 2006 World Cup,
when you qualified? That image is awesome. It’s an image, you see,
when I was preparing the program, because I’d already seen the video,
and when I was preparing the program, today,
being a bit more mature, I realize just how
awesome this image is. We’ll remind you, we’ll put the video on.
– Will you tell us? or you? It’s a call for peace. What was going on
at that very moment in time? The only country,
the only African country that has all this wealth, can’t
plummet into war like this. Please,
put down all your weapons. Because that…
– Civil war in Côte d’Ivoire,
is really complicated. People shoot at each other
during the day and people die. Well, what you need to understand,
what you need to know, is that I joined the national
team in 2002 the country was divided in two. There was an attempted coup d’état, which was a bit aborted, but the country
was divided in two even so. And we were going through
qualifying rounds, with our staff telling us: “be careful,
Ivorians aren’t talking to each other anymore, families, neighbors, aren’t talking
to each other anymore. It’s tense”. And, I remember, one day,
we went to play in Côte d’Ivoire and the President arrived, with
an insane security detail, there were
paramilitaries there, and, so, we were standing,
waiting for the anthems. And, in front of me, there was this guy,
with sunglasses, a red beret, and his rocket launcher,
and he’s like this. Wow! And, his hand, his finger there,
and I thought: “I hope there’s not going to be
any little firing noise and he’s not going to launch that thing and…
I’m going to end up in the lagoon. Can you imagine the situation? So, we saw that, and we said: “darn”,
but we were only staying for 5 to 7 days in Côte d’Ivoire. So, you don’t have time
really to sound out what’s going on when you’re
at events like that. I did feel
some tension though and everybody,
all our staff were saying: “Hey guys, qualify for the country,
play for the country, do it for the country”. And, before every match:
“Come on, think about the country”. And, we managed to qualify. So, I said to myself: “hey, we
did it for the country”. Now, we’re going to ask this country… we were
in a perfect position to speak out
and express ourselves. And, it all happened spontaneously. Was it just you, in your own mind?
– Yes, it was love for the country. And, you didn’t talk to anyone?
– No. You can tell it’s… What’s more, when you listen well,
I say: “from the north to the south, from the center to the west”.
I don’t know exactly. Maybe I’m wrong… but it was spontaneous. When I saw the camera
come into the locker room… And, usually, we a camera comes in,
you play at being a bit of a fool and… Right then, I said to myself:
“no, no, no. Now’s the time,
we’re going to grab this opportunity. But, actually,
there was a bit of naivety too. It was the citizen who
spoke, not the player, it was the Ivorian citizen. And, where I thought:
“shit! What do we do?” There’s war, there are families
who are divided, there are people dying,
people who’ve lost their homes, who were obliged
to flee to the south. So, they’ve nothing left… they’ve nothing left.
– so, you got down on your knees. So, I got down on my knees,
I passed on a message, and, then, I got down on my knees
and I asked the leaders to sit down at a negotiating table
and stop the war. And, it’s crazy because,
I passed on this message, like any moment in the locker room,
you live the moment, then you move on to something else. But, you didn’t think about the impact?
– No. And, it was covered
on every TV news program. Never. Never. And every day, for six months,
it was broadcast on French news at 1pm and 8pm. This message was played over and over,
and I was in England, so, I didn’t see all that.
I couldn’t imagine the impact. And, a few months later, I won the award for Best
African Player of the Year. It was the first time that an
Ivorian player had won this thing. I was invited to the
Presidential Palace and there I asked the President,
with a lot of nerve, I thought, at that very moment, something
wasn’t right, it was as if I was guided
by something. So, I asked the President,
I said: “Mr President, I’d like to present
my trophy to the north, because, up north,
they’re Ivorians too. It’s all Côte d’Ivoire really. And, as I’ve been given love,
we’ve been given love from all the Ivorians, I believe it would be
good for me to do that”. He didn’t reply. Hum-hum. He accepted. But, I think that deep
down inside, he was saying… He wasn’t too keen on it.
– I don’t know if he was keen on it, but, in any event,
he must have thought it was sassy and he offered us his jet.
So, we headed up north. It was insane, insane,
I’d never felt that before. And, Jonathan said to me: “you could’ve
played for the French team”. I don’t think I would’ve
felt that though. I’d have felt other feelings
that would’ve been just as intense… like you must’ve felt or even
Zizou must have felt, or even Thierry. But, frankly, this… But, what was the outcome?
Did the war stop? Did you stop the war?
– A ceasefire was signed. But… after what you’d proclaimed? Following what I proclaimed, and also given the pressure too, I think,
from everyone and also, given
I think in a certain sense, the intelligence of… It was a wake-up call,
a trigger for… Yes, because I took on the stance
of a local kid, a kid talking to adults, you see, you say to the adults:
“hey guys, stop! we’ve got a fine country, really,
we apologize”. And, back then, it was… I was the person
that everyone wanted to see. I said to myself:
“we’re going to take advantage of this”. It was the first time that I’d
become aware of the power an athlete can have
as a public figure and the real impact we can have
on society. I love what he’s just said,
the power of sport in general. I believe this program
exists for that too. And well done guys
for what you do. I think that, for too long,
especially in France, sportsmen were the guys who ran fast,
jumped high, shot well and who, at the end, said: “the three points
are important. We played a good match”. I don’t think we realize
just how much soccer and sport, of course, can help settle
geopolitical conflicts, can help bring people together. As you said earlier on, you
and me, we don’t come from the same world, today, we’re sitting face to face
just because, basically, we both love soccer and one of
us is better at it than the other. But, the power…
– Have you already played center-back? For Real? Never. The power of this object,
I don’t know what to call it, which is sport and soccer, it’s monumental, we saw it
yet again during the Games, there’s nothing else in the world more
powerful than this thing, I’m firmly convinced of that.
– That’s why sport brings people together. It has to bring people together, but that’s why
sport is political. That’s why, in my opinion,
there’s a happy medium to be found because sometimes we try too hard
to mix everything up and put sport in politics.
– To politicize. It’s exploitation.
– A happy medium has to be found. Because, for me, sport is about
bringing people together, and making people happy,
motivating them, inspiring them to do
something with their life. And, when it takes on a political level,
I agree with what you say. We just need to be careful because
sometimes they jump to conclusions. Yes, but it has
always been like this. Yes, of course.
– Actually, it’s… it’s up to us to realize how politicians may use it.
– Sport. But without going into the political arena.
I love that we just keep it to the bringing together and inclusive aspect. Exactly.
– Brilliant! On a pitch,
you don’t have white guys, black guys, rich guys, poor guys,
guys with diplomas, you’ve got guys in shorts who make good and bad passes. Normally, the goal in politics
is to bring people together. And, that’s where, I think the we’re heading
off track a bit with the term. We’re really coming back to the
original meaning, in the citizen sense. And, that’s where sport comes in. So, now, we’re going to move on
to you, Kameto, because, here, for example,
we’re talking about politics, etc. and you represented
France in the Pixel War. Yeah. What exactly is the Pixel War?
– Can you explain? I’ll let you explain.
– Back in the days, like, He doesn’t even have a white beard,
and he says: “Back in the days…”. Nowadays, time flies by. Back in the days…
– Ah, here we go again! Two or three years ago.
Yeah, on Reddit, which is a world-famous forum, they organized
what they call the Pixel War. So, every user
could go and place a pixel
every five minutes, every five minutes,
you sent a pixel, We’re gonna make a KCORP corner. So I want to make a KCORP corner,
we’re gonna start here ok. And we’re gonna grow from there
as much as we can. and it ended up in the hands
of streamers, i.e. us. So, in the US,
there were loads of big streamers, in Spain, there were loads
of big streamers, etc. And, I’d been sent this link,
so, I was live & direct and I went on it, and the aim was to bring in
your community and get a tiny bit of a square… Which depicts an image.
– Exactly. So, you’d have manga
communities, streamer communities, and there were also streamers
whose aim was to place
their country’s flag, etc. So, me, to start off, I took it
nice & easy with my community. I wanted to put my esport club
on it, my little logo, etc. And, we got into a bit of a scuffle
with the Spaniards. You’ve been there, Tony! As soon as I started to put
my little logo, the Spaniards kept
putting things on top. And, it ended up
a bit of a brawl. So, there were
five or six Spanish streamers, all bigger than me,
and they were all grouped together, etc. And, I was like: “Okay,
let’s see, you want to test us, let’s bring France in”. So, I was no longer
representing my stream, etc., I was representing France in the Pixel War.
– You were the General. Then after, as the hours
and days went by, coz it lasted 3 or 4 days, we started gaining ground, and we realized
that we’d loads of crazy people in France and that the community
was totally nuts. The Spaniards would go and sleep
about 2am, etc. The French stayed up
’til 5am. They said to me: “Kamel,
don’t worry, tomorrow I got work at 8am,
it’s now 5am, but I’m here,
I’m going to ring in sick”. So, we started
gaining ground, we placed a huge French flag
that took up a quarter of the image and that added fuel to the fire
for all the nations. We had Spaniards,
Americans, Italians, Germans… and it was literally war,
a pixel war. There was the French flag, and there were other French
celebrities who were… Yeah, that’s right. We’d put
a huge French flag and inside the French flag,
we’d put the portrait of Zizou, we’d put stuff about Thomas Pesquet. There were loads
of little hints. I don’t remember if Tony was in it. Like I said,
it was back in the days, a while ago. And, politically,
afterwards, did you get any messages? there was political exploitation, Some political parties
exploited it and tweeted: “Check this out,
it’s great what this young guy’s doing”. All the parties…
It went a bit haywire, but I ignored it totally. I was like: “we’re doing
our thing on Twitch. There was the chat, with all the communities of the
other streamers grouped together and we were
like making war calls with the other streamers
from the other nations. That means they’d
come to negotiate they’d say:
“Okay, you’re too strong, leave us just this tiny square”.
And, we had to negotiate, etc. There were treacherous moves, etc.
And, strategy. But, you realize that’s what
Poutine and Trump do all day long. But us, it was with pixels,
not with people’s lives, so trading like. And, did that boost your reputation?
– Yeah, mad like, over these 4 or 5 days,
I was like a huge star in France. Everything on Twitter
was about that. People would wake up,
they’d go place their pixel, and, I’d got a few strategies together, I didn’t want us all to put
all our pixels at the same time, because, if you put
all your pixels, then after, they’re going to put their pixels
on top. So, yours disappear. So, I said to them: “if you were
born between January and March, put your pixels now”. There was a
turnover every five minutes, and we beat everyone,
because the Spaniards, the Americans were telling their people:
“Go on, put all your pixels on now”. And, we’d always have
people putting pixels. It’s hard to explain.
– No, it’s really clear. It was like a sort of rivalry in the end.
– It was insane rivalry. It was your France-Spain
just like Tony experienced. From there, France-Spain
took off, it’s on Internet. It already existed, because there has always
been little clashes between France and Spain. We’ve seen it in soccer too…
– In soccer… but, on Internet,
as of the Pixel War, it went wild. Is there much rivalry
between streamers? Yeah, but now it’s okay,
it’s cool, it’s not nasty rivalry. Well… maybe between streamers,
but we can extend rivalry, and afterwards, we’re all going to
be able to talk about it together, and this is where there are still lots
of bridges to build, in esports, because, you have an esport
team, Karmine. You were already a trailblazer
in France, when you set up your club, but, today, there are other structures
in France which rank high, etc. So, you’ve got rivalry.
– Exactly. Sometimes it’s healthy, sometimes not so much.
But, you’ve got rivalry. The rivalry’s a bit like in soccer,
you’ve got classics. I really like it,
because, to start with, how did it kick off,
how did it end up? Like I said, I was
a semi-pro player at the start, then, I went off
to streaming, entertainment, so, I streamed games
to have fun with my friends, etc. It worked well, but I wanted
to get back into competition. So, I said to myself:
“I’m going to create my club”. I’d become real lousy,
to start with, I wasn’t really great, but everybody’s great here.
Or otherwise I’ll look at Seb. Why’s he looking at you when he says that?
– It’s personal. It’s weird, you say the word
lousy and you look at me. That’s really weird, isn’t it? You moved towards that because
you had a dream? Yeah, I had a dream, it was
to win the World Cup on LoL. Which I still haven’t done
and it’s going to take years. Yeah, it was my ultimate goal. It’s because you’re too lousy?
– Yeah, exactly. I’m too lousy. But I said to myself, I’m going
to recruit strong players. And why did it work?
When I created my club, there were already
esport clubs, etc. But it’s because I commentate
my team’s matches so, people manage to create
a link directly with the club because when actions are
about to take place, I shout out: “Oh, my, my, let’s go!
Let’s get this tower…”. I go crazy in matches. It’s bomb! That’s it guys! I go crazy.
– It’s as if Jean-Michel Larqué had his own club
and he was commentating. You see, that doesn’t exist
in soccer. The commentators
are neutral, or sometimes, they’ll be
a bit for one side. I’m going to make a link with the Kings League
which both of you are involved in. Maybe, they got
their inspiration from this idea. Michou commentates his team
and Inox commentates his team. Squeezie commentates
his team. So, you go onto the live,
Squeezie, Michou, and Inox and you get hooked, even though
you don’t know the players. It’s exactly the same ecosystem. It’s basically
the same thing, yeah. I’ve got a question. Tony, what do you think about all this?
Are you up-to-date on all this stuff? I was waiting for that. I know there’s
a generation difference. We had esport players
come along to my academy, so, it’s something that
attracted me because, when I was younger,
I grew up with two little brothers, and we often played
video games. It was always war
in sports games. Then again, I didn’t
play too much online. I often played with my brothers.
We were really competitive. That’s a generation thing too. If I can
reformulate Didier’s question. Tomorrow, your son says:
“Dad, I want to… “I want to play esports”.
– “I want to play all day long”. I’m well-educated on the subject. And, I think that we should let
kids enjoy their passion. It’s true that, to begin with,
I was more like: “ah, playing video games all day long”
whereas I’d played all day long, but then the next day, I’d go
and spend the day on the playground, so, it was a bit different.
But here… sorry? And, you played even during your career?
– No. Until I was 22.
I mean, I played during my first 3 or 4 seasons
with the NBA, then I didn’t play much after. And, Didier, if your son or daughter
says to you tomorrow: “Dad…” He’s pushy! I swear,
it’s a real question. This goes back again
to what we were saying at the start, when you’ve a dream.
When Tony has a dream and wants to make his dream come true, to show his dad,
to prove to his dad that, yes, they are American,
but France is there too. When my father said to me:
“no, it’s not a profession”, I want to show him
that it can be a profession and, above all, that you can excel in this profession, no matter which profession
you choose, basically, it’s like this… No matter which profession
you choose to take on, be among the best. And, I think that’s what it’s all
about for me. No matter the profession, if, tomorrow,
my son or daughter says to me: “I want to be a streamer”, I’m going to say: “Really, are you sure?
Be careful, it’s not easy, you mustn’t think that you’re just
sitting there watching the TV and chatting to your buddies.
It’s not like that”. When I hear you speak today,
I’m thinking to myself: “it’s a profession”. Yesterday, when you said: “you’re a coach,
you are actually…” It’s as if
you were the club President. You know, they’ve got physios,
they’re real teams. Like me, he came along to the academy, but, I see esports differently
now. It’s a real team. You’ve got a President, GM, the coach,
you’ve got the players, they get ready,
they’re given massages and all. There’s money
starting to come out of it. There has been for a long time now. But, you’ve got transfers,
you recruit players. What’s the…?
I don’t know if it’s public. But, in fact, we’re getting back a bit
to stories about rivalry, because, in the end, it’s rivalries that
brings some of the excitement. Before we talk about rivalry, I’d like to know,
when it comes to rivalry, if there are really rivalries
in stand-up? There isn’t really any rivalry.
For the time being, I haven’t felt it. And, honestly, I’d tell you
if there was. For the time being,
I haven’t felt it at all. But, I feel something that’s a bit
similar to sport and locker rooms when we’re in the Comedy Club.
You know, backstage, there’s no dressing room, you’re in the back room, you peer through the curtain
and we all go on in turn. There’s a locker room thing where “Go on bro!
You should do this a bit more… Go on, get them going”. Team spirit.
– It depends on the locker rooms. Have you got something to say or…?
– No, not at all. The locker rooms of good teams. It depends on the locker rooms. Spit it out.
You wanted to say something? No. I mean, you’ve got locker rooms
where it’s like that, but you’ve also got locker rooms where,
basically, it’s a team sport, but still an individual one.
– You can’t really talk. Didier, were there times
in the locker room where there were people,
where it was a bit heated? Or even with other teams,
rivalries? In my own team, no, because I never noticed… And, why Yaya Touré?
– … competition. What?
– Yaya Touré? I was finishing off his question: did you ever feel rivalry
and why with Yaya Touré? Are you crazy or what? No, but there were two bosses
for the selections. No, no, no. Actually, you know, Actually, how can I explain that?
For me, that’s not an issue. You need leadership
in a team. On your own, you can’t
manage a squad of 24 players. You can’t, and you need support,
you need colleagues. Let me take the example of Chelsea,
then I’ll go back to the selections. In Chelsea, we had
Frank Lampard, John Terry, Peter Cheikh, Michael Ballack. In fact, you’d only got guys
who could’ve been captains in their national team,
so big guns. What do you do? Are you going
to compete with these guys? For me, it was the opposite,
I learned a lot from these people, I learned a lot from these people and that’s what helped me improve in my
position as center-forward Because, 1, I don’t have
a classical career path, I didn’t go to a training center,
so, all the basics… when practice sessions were guided,
every week, I didn’t go through
this channel. I arrived in a professional
club when I was 19. I learned to run,
to go jogging. I finished my first
jogging in 28 minutes. The others continued
with the second exercise while I was
having a hard time, because I didn’t understand,
I didn’t know how to do a jogging session. Apart from running after a high speed subway, I didn’t know how to do
a really normal jogging session. So, when I arrived in clubs
like Marseille, Chelsea, even in the national team,
I thought to myself: “I’m so lucky to be
with these guys”. I played PlayStation
with Hernán Crespo and Shevchenko on the screen. You passed the ball to Sheva, Sheva really kicked the ball
right in the top corner and all. And, the following day, you’ve got the same
guy in the locker room next to you, he plays with you. So, you learn every day.
– But, what should I do? I’ve the feeling that your whole
career was like that, actually. Yeah, I’d sit down and I’d watch, I’d watch, I’d watch,
I learned, I learned. And, as I was younger,
I’d more energy. So, when they’d finished, I stayed behind
and I’d try to practice, practice, and people say that practice
is pedagogical, but, above all, it creates
something inside you. It becomes instinctive,
I mean, the ball arrives, you don’t need to think, you know
you need to kick it in a certain way so that it flies off in a certain direction,
to reach… you see? And that’s, sorry,
that’s a great… Not all players have
this community cleverness because you know how to step aside at the start
to come back in later. Capacity for work. You said,
you arrived, you couldn’t run, everybody can run. In the end, you were
one of the most athletic guys around. From what you’re saying, you put a lot
of hard work and cleverness into it. Yes, but you see,
we’re getting back to competition again. I had this coach that made you
understand that if you weren’t clever, you’d stay sitting on the sideline, you’d
never play. José Mourinho. Gregg Popovich. That’s exactly the…
– Do you see the… That rings a bell with you, for sure. And, even, I can see in what
you’re saying too Didier, tell me if I’m mistaken, you arrive
in San Antonio in the locker room… Tim Duncan.
– You keep a low profile. Like he said. I did the exact same thing. So, I got on the bus. The first time
I met my teammates, the guys shook my hand. But, there was
one who shook my hand like this. That happened to me when
I arrived in Madrid. I swear. I won’t say who
or anything, but yeah. You feel it directly. That’s why
I said when you arrive in a locker room, So, I go to the back. When you arrive
in a locker room, you feel it. When you arrive in San Antonio, you’ve
come from France. No-one actually knows you. But, I think it’s
even worse when you arrive… You’d already
done a few things. You’re on the other side
of the Atlantic though. You’d already done a few things.
Me, I’d done nothing. I’d spent a year in Paris and that’s it. But the Americans, back then,
they didn’t give a damn. You say I’d done a few things… You’d had a great
season in Marseille. it was my second season.
Hold on. No, hold on. It was my second season in League 1. Yeah, but that blots out everything. How come the English
knew me a bit? Because I’d played
against Newcastle and Liverpool. But, you’d done something. Yes, but there, it’s as if you’d literally
come out of a training center. And he arrived at Spurs.
– When it comes to basketball, the Americans, he said it earlier, nothing else exists apart from them. And, even less the French,
back then. And, especially the position
I played. Because as I played point guard,
you’re supposed to tell the guys where to go.
So, I was like: “Could you move there, please?”. When you’re point guard, it’s you
who decides, who sets the tactics. You gave
the tactics right from the start? That means, that right from the start
you had this responsibility? And, you never had any issues
with that? In any case, Duncan
didn’t even need to talk to me. You see Superman when he has his
laser eye beams, well, it was as if I could
feel that laser sometimes. If there were 2 or 3 actions where I
hadn’t announced tactics for him, he’d look at me like that. Well,
I’ve got to announce tactics for him because, otherwise,
I’m not going to last long. But, that’s incredible. SO,
when you look back now because, in the end, it’s the same thing, when you arrived,
there were two mindsets you could have, you were either a bit shy,
you’d hesitate, or, you’d say, like Didier,
after a certain time… I did the same thing as Didier, most
of the time I passed the ball to them, but sometimes I’d keep the ball,
I’d go coast-to-coast because I was
much faster than everyone else and I showed them
that I could do it. And, over time, they said:
“actually, the young guy’s not bad. Perhaps we can announce more tactics
for him, etc.”. I did the same thing as Didier. But, in your mind,
when you arrived at Spurs, in the locker room, it was complicated, did you never cave in
at any time? No, only sometimes, in private
when I’d go back home, sometimes tears would swell up,
sometimes, you know, it was hard, because I was 19 years old,
so I was young. And, when you say:
“my teammate doesn’t even talk to me, and he’s ignoring me totally,
he’s the star of the team. I’m the point guard
for the game, it’s sick”. Then again, every time, the next day,
when I’d go back for training, I’d say: “they’re not
going to break my spirit, because if there’s one thing
I want to show them, it’s that we can play basketball”. You have to earn
your teammates’ respect. So, because,
when you’re a rookie as well, when you arrive in the NBA, some
players tell you: “you have to go get the donuts, etc.” I did everything, I swallowed my pride,
I did everything. Then, after, when we had
matches, I was ready, and, as soon as I had the tactics,
that’s what I said earlier, shoot the basket at the right time, you have to be in the right place,
at the right time, work hard, and be ready when
they call your number. I remember a match,
I’d scored zero points the whole match. They’d announced hardly any tactics
for me. Duncan had scored 40 points.
We were playing against Seattle, there were 7 seconds left
and they announced tactics where, for Duncan,
“they’re going to go for a trap then pass the ball to you. You’ll be
on your own. You have to shoot”. And I said: “I didn’t get any tactical play,
no shots during the match, I said: “shit!”, and there they announced
a shot for me to win the match. So, I had to get it in. And, Duncan, he played tactically,
with the trap on him. I was on my own and I shot the basket.
I scored two points that day. The next day, I was the star in the
press even though I’d only scored two points. But that puts things into perspective.
– It was the winning shot. And, you’ve got to be ready. It’s
your first year, you’ve got to be ready. I love this thing, you know, fitting in,
keeping a low profile, but, from time to time,
going beyond the limit, like they said. In any case, you have to
take on the ‘game’. Because you have to show
that you’re tough mentally. For example, I remember
that every time… For me, my game was often
to attack the key players, break in. There was Kevin Willis
who was really burly. At a point in time, I broke in,
he smashed me, but on purpose, and I fell. I got up and pushed him
like this to show him.
I was coming back into the battle. That I wasn’t afraid, you see. And, suddenly, a bit of a scuffle
broke out and all. And, after, we went back to the sidelines,
the training continued, and Pop came over to me like this,
and went: “I love it”. Which player did you
play against in a match who showed you during your rookie season
that, okay, there’s going to be work to do. Stephon Marbury, every day.
Stephon Marbury. Stephon Marbury,
when I arrived in the NBA, even though there was Gary Payton,
there was Jason Kidd, but I played well
against them each time. But Stephon Marbury,
who was in Phoenix at the time, in 2003, so it was my
second year in the NBA. First playoff match,
he scored 38 and he shot the basket at the buzzer
by hitting the blackboard. And, I said to myself: “ah, I’ve got
work to do there, with him it’s impossible”. And, honestly, mentally… what’s more
the press smashed me. Everybody thought that this
was the key in this series, that I had to play well
against him so we’d outrun Phoenix. And, that’s when I said to myself:
“I’ve really got to make progress”. My outside shooting, weights,
do all the things because I didn’t just want
to be a guard. You know, I was a starter and
you rest on your laurels. And, I think it’s important to
challenge yourself all the time. It’s like in 2005, we won
a second title in four years. And, I said to myself that I
wasn’t an All-Star yet, and I’d read
an article about Tiger Woods. He’d just got the Tiger Slam, so he’d
won the four golf Grand Slams, and he said: “I’m going to
change my swing, I have to become
even more regular”. And, I didn’t understand.
The guy was the best in the world, he’d got the Tiger Slam, he’d won
the four gold Grand Slams. I don’t know
if you realize, but golf’s a really, really hard
sport to master. And so I thought: “if Tiger can
change his swing, then I can change
my outside shooting to become more regular
to be an All-Star”. So, in April, I started
working like crazy with a shooting coach, and all summer, over a month,
I shot with just one hand, we started over from scratch and at the start
of the season it was a bit hard. But, after, little by little,
I made progress, I made progress, and, my first year
with the shooting coach was the same year I became
an All-Star for the first time. But, you know, this thing about
fitting in hit home with me and about sometimes showing
that I exist and that I’m raring to go and, I’m going to try and make a comparison
that’s pretty far-fetched. I’m also a
sniper in a program. I’m in the audience and, from time
to time, I make jokes. And, there’s a thing about
having to fit in. Basically, you’ve got adults
talking about important topics, and you’re the little guy, so you mustn’t
disturb too much, without really disturbing. You’re given instructions,
like you don’t take the floor at certain times, you let them finish, you chew on it. And, I think that, actually,
in a program, you should do that 80% of the time, but you need
to go beyond the limits 20% of the time with two jokes where you shock, a rude remark
when it’s least expected, or you take the floor when
you’re not allowed to do so. These two moments, where you leave this comfort zone and this frame
that you’ve been given, are vital. And that’s where, I think, where it’s these
two that people are going to remember. But, how do you know the right moment? Exactly?
– I think, I can relate to this thing about community cleverness
or, I don’t know what we could call it. I see it in my mind
like a pointer. I’ll tell five or six jokes,
where people in front of their TV are going to say: “it’s a bit meh”,
I do that on purpose. I don’t shock my producer,
I don’t shock my presenter, I don’t take center stage,
I let them get on with it but, once or twice, I’m going to come in harder because I know
that it’s these moments that are going to work. He’s always going to give
the ball to Tim, except, one time, he’s going to go
it alone and shoot the basket and everybody’s going to be saying:
“what was that?” “We’ll have to
reckon with him”. And, it was funny when you
talked about that, because I drew this parallel and, it’s a daring little thing… or…
I don’t know how you define it. I really like the way you
summed up community cleverness, it’s about knowing who you’re with in
your group, understanding your group, understanding who you’re playing with, especially when you’re point guard,
you need to put everyone in the spotlight, know when they’re raring to go,
and when they’re not, and choose the right moment where
you can express yourself on your own. And you, Kamel, did you have to break down
the frames people created for you, in particular in streaming or
in esports, where you thought
the frame was like that… For you, it was…
It was complicated. I’m going to talk more about esports
because streaming, in any event, is free, you do what you want
and, now, it’s about outdoing everybody. So, young guys now, like when you watch
IShowSpeed, etc., they do insane things. And, that’s exactly what works,
that’s what the profession of streamer’s is now. But, in esports, yeah.
For example, us, when I created my club,
the first year, nobody… you know, they bring out tier lists before
the seasons, like in every sport, and we were seventh, eighth, etc. And, I arrived?
First match we’d commentated, I’d seen the team training,
and as I know the game well, I knew something
was being created, and I started
insulting the whole league. I said to them: “You know nothing,
you’ll see, we’re going to win,
no doubt about it”. And, during the first season, we became
French champions and European champions. There’s a mini Champions League
before you get to the franchise. And, at that point, the people
in esports were shocked, because in terms of audience,
it had reached an all-time high. It had got the same,
the same audiences as the World Cup, even though it was
a French championship. And, at the same time, the
enthusiasm was insane. And, esport’s
a geek thing basically, it’s really online, slowly. There wasn’t the same enthusiasm as soccer.
And, I grew up with soccer, and that’s what
I wanted to bring. And, I think, at that point in time,
that sort of… that sort of shook everything up. So, at the start, I was frowned upon
and well-viewed by my community, but frowned upon by the rest
of the esport community. But, in the end, you
raised the bar… because… Now it has become normal.
– Arenas filled. And, this unreal aspect that comes in. I can’t get to grips… you mean,
like, you play in stadiums? Yeah, basically, now we do,
because at the start we played… You’ve never been to watch?
– I’ve seen images where there are two guys in the middle
of a green in front of a thing with stadiums filled
in Australia. I’ve seen that. Yeah, it’s serious.
– Is that what you do? Yeah, that’s what I do. We’ve got a stadium now,
we lease a stadium. The K-Corp. The Karmine corp.
– How many seats? – There, it’s 3,000 seats. But, every year, we do a special
K-Corp event that’s called the KCX. And, then, 30,000 people
come to watch. Question then: are you going to buy a stadium,
are you going to build a stadium? For the moment,
we’re still at the beginning. For the moment, we’re the only
team to have a stadium. Yeah, we lease
a stadium. But, Kamel, that’s your goal, right? My goal’s to have home
and away matches. Because, if you’re not aware Didier,
there are ultras. I knew it was serious…
but that much… with stadiums! I’m thinking here and I’m saying: “there’s
like a million things to do”. Last month, we qualified in
South Korea because we won the European championship,
so there was an international tournament, and 150 people actually
traveled to South Korea to come and watch
our team playing the match. And, for example,
whenever we’ve got European tournaments, some 2,000, 3,000 people
are going to travel and will be chanting.
– Chartered buses… Respect.
– No, but it’s really interesting. That’s why there are really
a lot of things in common. There are a lot of similarities,
because earlier on you asked Tony and Didier: “if your kids
wanted to do that etc.” Really, it’s a generational thing. We come from a generation that
played video games for fun, and gaming did
take up a lot of time. I’ve always been a gamer
and spent a lot of time on it, but it was never
a career in the making. It was just a hobby. Then there started to be competitions. There were
cash prizes, so you could
win money. Then…
It grew. It became structured.
It became professional. It got a legal set-up.
– Exactly. That’s why we call it esports, because
it’s just like a sport in that sense. So for years,
gaming was criticized and discredited
in the 80s, 90s, even the 00s. But now, you have
to realize that gaming is an important part
of our culture and our economy. We were discussing PES earlier.
PES4, PES5. The best-selling multimedia product in French. That means…
– Everyone recognizes the sleeve. Didier’s on PES6.
– PES5 and PES6. It’s Didier.
– With the straight perm. With Thierry, with Titi. But when I say the
best-selling multimedia product, that it sold more
than any CD, more than any film.
It’s a video game. That was it,
the shift came into effect. You really have to…
You still, it still feels like
it’s seen badly or that there are
misconceptions around it or… I think there are
still misconceptions around it. So, when there are
articles in L’Équipe, there are always comments like: “Why are you watching
people playing on their computer etc.?” There’s an esports department at L’Équipe. Yeah, that’s right,
they write about our team. We made a new crack player
called Caliste a star this year and he made the front cover
of L’Équipe, it was sick. He made the front cover of L’Équipe. Have you been on the front cover of L’Équipe?
– Yes. Come on!
– Yeah OK. Ask me, ask me.
– Have you been on the front cover of L’Équipe? No.
– Say yes. Say yes.
– Never. So yeah, there are always
little comments like that. But I don’t hold it against them,
because people don’t get it. Just take our LEC team,
League of Legends, they’re in Berlin every weekend and play
one or two matches in Berlin. They train four times
a week, they have a head coach, like Mourinho,
a head coach, two assistant coaches,
an analyst, a performance coach
for their mental health. They’re a sports team.
– Yes, of course. Didier, when you’ve had
a career like yours, you win things,
you win titles, over the seasons
and gradually make your name as one of the best
or the best attacker, how do you make a change?
Like, Tony talked about shooting. Did you have to
assess your career every season? What Tony said
struck a chord with me because Tiger Woods’ swing change
really resonated with me too. I had a coach that not everyone
saw as a coach, but he, he…
Avram Grant. At Chelsea?
– At Chelsea. He joined a bit later,
but for years before then, I was trying to work out
how the dude outclassed everyone, and actually,
he wanted to change everything. I was like: “it’s weird
because it’s an individual sport, so I’d get a lot out of it,
but why does he do it?” I’ve never had the
opportunity to meet him. But the day I do,
I’ll ask him. But that helped me because when I was at Marseille, the player I was at Marseille
was totally different to the player
I became at Chelsea. What I mean is I was
almost always offside, defending deep and
attacking space. Then I joined Chelsea. And the coach told me
that he wanted to win a title straight away. So I couldn’t be the guy who went
into the attacking area anymore, instead I became a central point. The focal point, the pivot.
– The focal point. So Lampard, Robben,
Lampard would pass me the ball. I get the ball, I get into position,
I get the ball again, then it’s gone. I turn back
and it’s all over. Yeah! Bravo! Bravo! Did you feel like less of a main player?
– I wasn’t a finisher anymore. Did you feel like less
of a main player? Basically, being a center forward, I’m there to score
and create scoring opportunities. When I stopped
scoring and was being judged
by the number of goals I scored by the end of the year
or the end of the season, I went: “Shit! No way.” Because I was the best
scorer, I was the best striker. I was the best striker at
Chelsea during my second season. Because you play alone? – Best striker in the team. You play alone as a pivot?
There’s nobody… That’s another thing that
caused problems back then. Anyway. I go see the coach. I say: “Coach, seriously,
well done, I’ve won, I’ve won these two titles and
all that, but I’m bored and honestly…
– You went to see him? You said that to him? Yeah. I said: “Honestly,
it’s not for me.” But you won!
– Wasn’t winning enough for you? No. That’s the thing though.
Which is best? Being a good player and winning, Being a not so great player and winning
or being a great player and losing? It’s not that he’s not great. When I say not great,
I mean in terms of input. Yeah, in terms of stats.
– That’s it, because he’s not scoring anymore. Because when you join, you know yourself,
you’re at Madrid now. But back then at Chelsea,
everyone’s watching you. You have a bad season.
What’s a good season? At least 20, 25 goals.
I scored 15 my first year. So at the end of the season
everyone was like: “How much did they
spend on Drogba? 40 million Euros. It’s the first time a club like Chelsea
has spent so much on a player and Lampard scores
more goals than him.” I think that’s so unfair because they don’t have the
distance they need to see the bigger picture. That’s not what
he was asked to do. That’s why I
asked Didier: that’s an agreement you
have to come to with the coach, then the coach has
to talk to the owner because they’ve spent
40 million Euros. If that’s what the coach wants,
that’s what he gets. You’re the focal point,
you’re on the attack, no-one can stop you. You do both:
striking and scoring. If everyone at the
club’s in sync and you’re paid
however much you want to do your job, I personally would be cool with that
as long as we were winning. I wouldn’t care
if they bring up “15 goals”. We win the title,
the coach gets what he wants and I get paid
what I want to do it. Yes, but actually… That’s fine for one year, but then what?
– Bad press. You do it for one year, you do it for two years.
– But you’re winning. Then suddenly you end up
playing long balls and getting physical
with the guys. That’s not my thing. Then the day you earn more,
they’ll be like: “yeah but…” Yeah they’ll say: “yeah,
he doesn’t fit the bill.” Someone like Jordan…
– I get it… So I had to adapt. I had do something
different to what I was doing. I lifted weights
and all that. I bulked up a bit
because… I admire
what you did because people
often ask me: “how did you last
so long at Spurs?” You know, we set the record
for the number of wins in 20 seasons. It’s taking a good look at yourself.
– I always say, because whether it was me
or Duncan or Ginobili, we never let our
egos get in the way of what the team wanted or what
the coach wanted. You see? Because me and Manu earned
less so we could stay at San Antonio. We could have gone to the Knicks but we wanted to stay at San Antonio
because we were winning. That’s why I admire
what you did, you know, for the first
two seasons, because I think that’s what
makes the difference to the team. If you want to win then
some players will have to make sacrifices. Obviously I could have scored 30 points
a match if I all tactical play was on me, but I couldn’t because, first up,
Duncan was the star. Then it was me and Manu and we had far
fewer tactics than Duncan. But at the end of the day,
I’d think, all that matters is we’re winning and when I look back on my career, I’m in the Hall of Fame
because we won those titles. I could have played for another club
and scored 30 points a match, but we wouldn’t have won a title
and I don’t think I’d be in the Hall of Fame. Then it depends what
you want to do. Someone like Jordan
wouldn’t have done what you did. Someone like Ronaldo
wouldn’t have done it. But I see what you’re saying
because I think there are a lot of players who, for them,
it’s more important to do what they want and score goals,
blah blah blah, and I get that. I’m just saying that I
respect people like Dwyane Wade, you know, players who took
let’s say a secondary role for the good of the team. No, I…
– And I’m not saying it’s not tough. Sometimes I’d go home
and be like: “Shit, he stuck me in the corner
the entire match. Plus I had a fake player in front of me
defending and I had no tactical play.” Obviously, it happens
to everyone. On that point, let’s circle back
because earlier we were discussing Popovich and Mourinho. When you say you sometimes
have to step aside with Popovich. What’s your relationship like with him? To start off with,
I was like Didier. I’d say: “I don’t want to be in the corner.
I want the ball.” It’s natural,
we’re all human. You know you’re better,
You know you can help the team. You want to do more.
– And you make your point. Then, you make your point
and it’s up to the coach you know,
he talks you round and says: “for the good of the team, I think
it’s better if we play like this.” Then it’s up to you if you’re
going to trust the coach or not. You have to see the results. Because if you don’t win,
then it’ll blow up in his face. But since we
were winning every season, because I played 17 seasons,
so for half of my career, we made the finals.
It goes so fast, people forget we
were the best for a long time. But that’s because we
accepted the roles we were given. You were at
Spurs for 17 years, in a sport where
there’s not much loyalty to a franchise.
There isn’t the same commitment as soccer. You can’t really compare
soccer to basketball because you get transferred in
basketball. You don’t get to choose. But in soccer, you do
get to choose. If you want to leave, you leave.
Contracts can be changed. You sign a contract, it’s
just paper, you tear it up. You can’t do that
in basketball. So your franchise wanted
you to stay for 17 years. Have any other players
spent so long with one franchise? Yeah Duncan. He did 19 years. Kobe was there for 20. Didier, would you have
liked to play for just one team. Yeah.
– Hang on, he didn’t play for just one team. He’s talking…
– Yes, yes, but… I’d have liked to. When I look at people like
Totti, Maldini, Gerrard.
– Like Steven Gerrard. You know… It’s a good thing.
– Yes, it’s a good thing. You start out young
in the team, you grow up in it, you climb the ladder and
you see people come and go, you see coaches come and go, but you stay and
that means you’ve always managed to fit in
with the new person coming in, new players, new coaches,
maybe new presidents. But you’re still there.
It’s more than staying power, it’s because, 1, you’ve
been respectful to everyone, because that’s part of
everyday life. I think people would
rather work with someone who’s friendly
and respectful than someone who’s going
to cut you down all the time. Eventually it’ll be like:
“that’s enough, you’re out.” But I’d have liked
to stay at Marseille. At Marseille?
– Yeah, at Marseille. Marseille was your favorite club?
– Yeah, it’s where my heart is. It’s insane what you achieved
at Marseille in the space of a year. In the space of a year,
it feels like he was there for 10 years. I always say… I can’t get my head around it.
It’s actually hard to grasp. It’s as if you said to a Spurs fan: “Here’s TP’s
number 9 jersey, go and have fun for one year.”
What’s he going to do? Every night it’s show time and he’s
like: “I’m living the dream.” That was me for a year. Speaking of one year Didier, weren’t you
meant to make a comeback at OM? Every year he was coming back,
every year he had everyone think he was coming back. But he never did.
– It’s actually insane because that
got me in hot water even though, 1, I never
wanted to leave the club, 2, when I wanted to
come back they said: “if you come back, you’re on loan.”
I said no. If I’m coming back, I’m coming
back to the club and I’m never leaving. And 3, a lot of managers used
my name and the year I spent at
Marseille to say: “he’s coming back”
just to sell memberships. So people would
buy memberships. You know,
people work hard all year to buy
their membership. It’s more than just
a piece of paper, it’s more than just watching a match,
it’s their whole lives. So when you lie to them and say:
“Yes, Didier’s coming back” but actually no, he’s not, and I don’t like conflict so I’m not going to
go around saying: “the president or manager
who said that is a liar.” I let them do their thing,
so of course it comes back on me. Even though you said
you never wanted to leave. 1. I didn’t want to leave. 2. I actually asked for a
meeting with Robert-Louis Dreyfus in London,
God rest his soul. During my first year I said:
“Sir, I’m not happy, I want to come back to the club.
Can we make it happen.” “No, we don’t
have the money.” I said: “You’ve just been
paid 40 million Euros.” No, it doesn’t work like that. I see, I see.
– You get it? It doesn’t work like that,
because I was unhappy where I was.
The first few months were tough. So you’d just got to Chelsea
and you already wanted to leave. It was tough. Seriously, it was tough.
The story about the handshake, can you imagine?
You get to a club, you leave a major season
and you get over there and you’re just
like everybody else basically. It’s a lack of respect… It’s a hazing.
– It’s a whole thing. It’s a whole thing.
– You earn respect. It’s something you earn. You know, you have to earn it. So I played matches when I’d be on the line
and not get the ball. I’d be on the side,
I’d get the ball then I’d cross the ball
and the guy would score. That means:
“It’s not up to you to score.” Yeah. What was it
like in London? Sorry?
– London, when you first got there,
what was it like? It wasn’t like Marseille.
– It didn’t have the Marseille sunshine. To start off with,
the day I got to London to sign the contract, I was wearing a little top, you know. So I get there and I’m like: “Whoa!” I was shivering, I was signing
and shivering. Know what I mean?
I was like: “Shit.” Then there
was the language barrier. I could speak English
but my kind of English was: “Where is Brian ?
Brian is in the kitchen”, you know? “I’m very happy
to sign here, Chelsea, I will give my very best”. Can you translate for Kameto?
– Then afterwards… Afterwards you settle in. But I did speak
to the coach, I said: “Thank you,
you made me leave Marseille, you’ve already bust my balls
because you made me leave Marseille. Now I’m here and the
guys aren’t passing to me. You said that to Mourinho?
– Yeah. So I want to leave. He said: “No, no,
don’t worry. I’m going to sort it out.
We’re going to make a team. And gradually I started…
because I watched a lot of videos, I’d analyze
my allies and opponents and
myself so I could improve my game,
since there was this missing piece from my training. You wanted to be sure
you were up to it, right? Yes, because it all happens so fast. Tony, two years
before I got to Chelsea, I was a substitute
in the second division. It all happens so fast.
– Guingamp. Le Mans.
– Le Mans. I was a substitute.
I played for Le Mans in the second division. And I just got lucky. Fiorèse signed with Paris, Guivarc’h got injured, Guy Lacombe called me:
“Didier. We need you.” Are you joking?
I’m a 2nd division sub and you want me
to play in the first division? In the end I signed with them,
I stayed there. Then the coach left at the end of the year. Bertrand Marchand stepped in,
he asked for a meeting and said: “Well, thank you for your service
but you’re not good enough for L1.” Not good enough for?
– For L1. What a visionary. So I said: “Basically coach, you’re telling me I have
to go back to Le Mans or the second division?”
Well, you do what you want. Ah, that’s cold! Did it feel like a setback? I was worried, because the second division
is a warzone. It’s a warzone. I was worried, so I went to
see my teammates and said: “this is what the coach has said”
and they said: “Wait a minute, there’s no real attacker,
you’re the only attacker. Don’t worry,
we’re going to work with you, we’re going to play, we’re going to help
you score, we’re going to pass to you.” Did you play with Malouda?
– With Malouda, Cédric Bardon, Carnot.
Those guys are strikers. Do you have a good
relationship with Malouda? With all of them, all of them,
Guingamp is like a family. So I spent
18 months there then bam, I went to Marseille. I could choose between
Lyon and Marseille, Lyon were offering me more
money, like you were saying, They were offering me the Champion’s League,
they were offering me titles, but I followed my heart. I went for less money.
I went for Marseille. It was the riskier choice
but it was my dream come true. So I get there,
I sign for 4 years, I’m like: “feet under the table,
I’ll blow them away,” meaning they’ll… they’ll go crazy,
they’re going to love me. I did one year, it was like a dream, and I was training for the next season with Pape Diouf
who become president of the club. So we’re sitting in his office.
He was still my agent, so there were only a
few months or weeks in it, and he said:
“OK, tell me your dream team.” I remember,
there was Pedretti, I wanted them to hire Pedretti at the time.
– Did you put yourself in there? Of course I did. It was the team for the following year,
so I was in it. I asked for
Mario Yepes. You could rely on them.
– Were you the GM? Basically yeah. I don’t know if the papers are still out there
but it was awesome. Because doing that
with him, basically being
part of creating the new team, the new season,
so you could win a title. In France, people
would see that as: “Yeah, this guy’s the GM…” They did the same thing at Spurs. Pop would ask
what we thought. Yeah, I wanted my team around
me because I wanted to win. It’s a goal I wanted to achieve.
So we finished the season. They got me to sign for another year.
The last match. An extra year.
I was like: “great, I can stay
at Marseille for five or four years,”
so I signed then later I realized it was all to increase my value
and go: “Go on, leave.” It all happened so fast,
I was leaving for Chelsea and thinking:
“shit, am I in over my head? Is this too much?
What if I screw up?” Ah, that’s tough! It would be embarrassing
because you’d be going home. It’s a big money transfer.
You don’t want to screw up. And I get there and it’s tough, you know, I was struggling
and I got injured. I said to myself: “Actually,
these guys don’t even know me. I’m not fitting in. I need to make an effort
or else it’s over. I’m not going back to France.
I’m here now. Seize the opportunity man!”
so I got back into my videos, my analyses,
why did I score? How did I pull off a dribble
or how did I screw it up? Why did I use that surface?
Why did I lose control of the ball? I used it to
rationalize the game. It meant I could
practice and understand how I score. That’s something
you three have in common. You’re very cerebral
athletes. It’s obvious with you. You became the spokesman
when you joined the French team. What you say makes sense,
it’s smart. The three of you are.
You’ve blown my mind though. I was clueless about what you’ve said.
All the work behind the scenes, analyzing everything. I worked with an osteopath,
a physio, for 17 years. The same one?
– The same one. You know, I’m pretty loyal
in everything I do. I started with…
I had an agent when I was 19. I was in the second division. No, I was an apprentice at Le Mans
and I had an agent back then. My agent was Pape Diouf. You know, he represented
top players like Marcel Desailly And I was a nobody in Le Mans,
in the second division who’d signed with Pape Diouf. What I’m saying is that,
in my head, I was there. I know where I’m headed. Kameto, have you had any setbacks? Or a time in your career
when you overcame a challenge? As a streamer? Yes, there was a time
when everything was going great. I had good audiences, I was number
1 in France and all that. Everything was great. Then I decided
to go on holiday, stream from there, you know. But I went with my friends
and when we went, I couldn’t find
any time to stream. Then there was some trouble and other things happening.
I was gone for 30 days. When I got back,
I’d hit rock bottom. The stats were off. Zero creativity. I didn’t know what I
wanted to do after 30 days. It all happens fast with the internet.
– Yeah. Since those 30 days,
I’ve put a ban on holidays. I’ve not exactly put a ban on them,
it’s more that I’ve got a knot in my stomach that I’d go and it would all happen again. It took me a year
to get back to where I was. After that the fear was always there
and even now I have that fear. It’s a lesson in humility. Exactly.
– It’s a lesson in work ethic. – Exactly. I took it for granted,
like it was a done deal. I could leave and come back. I was gone for 30 days
and it took me 18 months to get back on my feet and, at the time,
I thought it was over. Going back to what Didier
said about working out etc. You also got into
working out and lost a
lot of weight. Does it have something
to do with that or is it for health reasons? Is it a way to
be in a better head space so you can do your job better,
live better etc.? It’s all that.
It’s primarily for health reasons. I’m still overweight,
but things were really bad I’d struggle to breathe
tying my shoe laces. When people would say:
“Come on, let’s go out,” I couldn’t be bothered.
I was always on the computer. Then I realized I wasn’t getting any younger… No. Alright,
OK, OK. I’m 29. Yeah OK,
you start to get to an age. An age.
– An age. OK, so I was like:
“if I miss the boat now I’ll be 30, 31, 32.
I don’t know. There’ll be kids,
that kind of thing. It’ll be tricky,
it’ll be tricky. So last year,
I said to myself: “I’m going for it,
I’m giving myself one year to change my life and get it right. I lost 30kg.
– 30? I still have 40 to go.
– In one year? No, in four, five months. Yeah. Because he’s
done it before. 30kg?
– Yeah. You lost a lot of weight.
Then you put it back on? Yeah, I’m working
out again now. What do you do?
Gym every day? Cardio? I have a trainer, I go to
the gym five or six days a week, so I do cardio, weights, I eat right. I eat two meals a day
and I’m sticking to it. It’s a lifestyle. There are times when you cave
because when you have to travel or
go to events. Traveling is the hardest,
that’s the hardest. But what I’m
trying to do now is I’m filming it all
so I can empower people and show that… That will inspire lots of people. There are lots of people
who are trying to live healthier and eat better,
and they post their results too. So it’s a super positive thing
for you and for other people too. Totally. That’s why every team in
my esports club is supported by a performance coach
who handles mental health and basic fitness to keep
them fit and healthy. because there are all kinds
of people in esports. You’ve got people who live like athletes. Like you guys, I’ve seen
players who get up at 8am,
yeah like you too. I’m one of “you guys”. They go for a run, they come
back with a clear head. Then there are others,
there’s actually one in my team. They play all hours. We have to switch the
internet off in the office to stop them playing, you know. You have to tell them:
“Go take a shower,” like back in the day, but that’s why we’re
there for them, so they live better. I try to inspire people
with that and I also try to do it myself. So do you feel the weight of the platform you have… Bad choice of words. I didn’t get it,
I do now. He a sharp shooter.
– You’re good. It’s his job. You’ve brought
him out as a sniper. Once or twice.
He shoots from the hip. He was saying that earlier. Twice in my earpiece,
they went… But do feel the
responsibility? For our generation? Yeah, totally. That’s why I always
try to be upfront when I’ve got
something I want to share. For example, we often
do charity events as streamers. So when there’s
something to say, we use our audience
to spread the word. We try to make a good impression,
that’s the most important thing for me. – Earlier on,
Didier said he played for Marseille
and it was his favorite club. Tony, was Spurs
your favorite club? Or ASVEL?
– No. No, my favorite was the Chicago Bulls. Because Jordan was my idol.
It’s the Bulls. But, you know, we don’t have
the choice in basketball. If you could have been traded
with the Bulls, would you have gone? Well, you don’t have the choice. So yes.
– OK, but if you did have the choice. If I was a player like you. Even so, I guess
you’d be asked. Would a player like you
be asked? Yes, of course. You know, it’s hard to say because
I’m so Spurs. I don’t know,
because when I first got to San Antonio, I didn’t know anything about the city,
but I did know David Robinson and Tim Duncan because
they won the title in ’99. You know, it’s funny
how life goes. So I did 15 workouts
before the draft. Europeans didn’t get a
lot of respect back then, so you had to do
lots of trials and workouts. I remember doing two
workouts with the Spurs and the last workout was 3 days
before the draft, and I remember walking around the city,
I’d had a great workout and I told my dad that I knew
this was where I’d get my break. I said: “I don’t know why,
I know it’s going to happen here. I feel good here. I like the air here,
it just feels right.” Three days later,
I was drafted by the Spurs. And the apartment I was in
where I filmed for my dad, I bought it that
first year. Fast forward 20 years and it’s your home.
– Yes, of course. We’re waiting for an invitation
because we’ve seen your house. Come and do The Bridge
whenever you want. Sold. Let’s go back
to the question about your favorite club… It’ll be called
The Swimming Pool. We’ll shoot it
in the pool. So favorite clubs, are there any people,
gamers, who’d say their favorite club
is Karmine? Totally. We have youngsters
that we’ve signed who’ve followed their hearts because
sometimes they’re offered less, a bit like Didier and OM, and they want to join the
campaign and be part of the energy. So there are lots
of youngsters who were… because it started in 2020, 2021, who were picked up by
Kcorp and now they’ve grown up, they’ve gained skills,
they’re easier to recruit because they were Kcorp fans and we have superstar
players in our club now. There’s something that
we’ve been talking about since the start: accomplishment. Tony, the Hall of Fame.
How does it feel to be in the Hall of Fame? I never thought a kid
like me could do it. But I’ve always dreamed big
and I always tell my kids and my students:
“Dream big”. If you tell someone your dream
and they don’t make fun of you, it means you’re not
dreaming big enough. People would laugh at me
when I’d tell them my dream. Now who’s having
the last laugh? But I could never have imagined
the Hall of Fame. When I dreamed of the
NBA, I just dreamed of playing for the NBA. Back then I’d think
I’d be happy if I was a good point guard.
That’s what I thought. And if I can play for 10, 15 minutes. I’d think just that
would be great to do. Actually, my career has been
more than I could have dreamed of. But at the time, there weren’t
many French players in the NBA so you couldn’t really think:
“Yeah, I’ll be an All-Star, I’ll be in the Hall of Fame.” As a comedian, what’s the
Hall of Fame to you? Les Enfoirés? One day, Gad Elmaleh went on
a show and said: “I did the comedy circuit
with him and he’s the future.” One day, Laurent Baffie was
a guest on Quotidien. He was asked: “Who’s your successor?
He said: “Paul de Saint-Sernin.” Seriously? Or are you…
– No, it’s all true. That’s insane. – I’m not getting much
respect here. Let me just remind you
that his job is to play PES. Let’s do you,
just do you. I’m good here. That’s insane though.
– It’s all true. Gad Elmaleh’s one of your idols.
– Baffie’s my idol. I’d watch the Gad Elmaleh
DVD with my family in the lounge and Gad went on TV and said:
“He’s the…” Even though
you didn’t know him? I don’t know him.
We were on the circuit, that’s it. Look, they don’t even
know my first name. Laurent Baffie too. Yeah, that meant
a lot coming from a fellow sniper. It’s not the Hall of Fame,
it’s those little wins where you tell yourself…
It’s dumb, but one day, I was at an event
for a kit supplier with Zinédine Zidane,
my biggest hero. He comes over and says: “Oh Paul,
It’s great to meet you. I watch you on TV.
You actually make me laugh.” That’s quite something for him.
He meets someone and says: Yeah, you’re funny, I’ve met you, I know who you are. He did a video with Kameto. That’s a win
for me. It’ll never be the Hall of Fame. I’m right at the start and
I’ll see what happens and it’s exciting. But right now, I’m sitting
on a couch with people I watched on TV
when I was a kid. That sort of thing
means a lot to me. It’s not my Hall of Fame,
but they are little wins for me. I get that. Speaking of
appreciating the moment, that’s something that can be hard to do
when everything happens so fast. Sometimes, you don’t have
the perspective you need. Just take someone like Aurélien,
he’s thinking about the notes from last night’s match,
what the press are saying, tomorrow it’s training,
a change in strategy. I need to change position. It’d be mad if one day you hit pause
and take a look at the bigger picture. You realize you actually
play for Real Madrid. Even The Bridge,
you know, you’ve hit the nail on the head,
just being with you guys, it means I can hit pause,
you know, switch off from what happened yesterday,
what’s happening tomorrow and what I need to do after. Just being here with you
guys and learning, feeding off
everything we’re talking about, that’s what counts, you know,
living in the moment, being inspired and
making the most of all the good things that life has to throw at us. Because right here,
all of you, all of you are successful,
all of you have been successful in what you’ve done and sometimes,
we take it for granted when actually there
are lots of things that happen to us that are out of the ordinary. Like the Hall of Fame,
not many people are in it. Things like that. I don’t know if you
have any advice as… obviously you’re not old,
but you have a lot more experience. Do you have any advice about
appreciating the present moment, because you never know what will happen,
nothing’s guaranteed. I think it’s hard to appreciate
the moment because you’re always thinking about
what’s coming next, your next match. I only took a step back at the end of my career. That’s when you can get
some perspective and think OK, it’s over. Because during my career,
my mindset was always that I couldn’t rest on my laurels.
Competition was fierce. There are 400 players in the NBA
and 60 new players every year. An NBA player’s career
lasts 4 years on average. Can you imagine
how tough the competition is? You know yourself in soccer,
you don’t really have the time to… No. With us, we’d just have won a
title and I’d already be thinking. We’d just have celebrated and I’d
be working out how to play a back-to-back. Because I had that
mindset of wanting to make my mark on the history
of my sport, so I was thinking: “if I want to make my mark,
Jordan won six, Kobe won five so
I’ve got to win the titles.” That was my mindset so
I wasn’t really… But now.
You do now. Yeah, now I love
watching matches, watching the old
matches from back then. Now you can enjoy them and
see what we accomplished. Because the Spurs haven’t made
the playoffs for six or seven years. We made the playoffs
for nearly 20 years. At this point,
you can compare and see. I have four titles,
LeBron James has four titles, Stephen Curry has four titles,
they may win more. That’s when you start to see the bigger picture. You see that what I achieved
is pretty good. I think there are only
thirty or forty people who’ve won four titles in
the history of the NBA. It puts it all in
perspective. How about the French? To go back
to your question earlier, do they realize what I’ve
done or not? Blah blah blah. Now that there are
loads of French players in the NBA, you’ll see in 5, 10, 15,
20 years we’ll be able to compare them with all the
French players in the NBA, compare what I did
with what they did. Then you’ll be able to see.
But I think we’ve got to wait a bit. Yeah.
– If I was in the middle of my career, like you at 25,
the best advice I could give you is to work hard every
day and remember that everyone wants
to be in your shoes. You’re in the best club
and everyone wants your spot. So right now,
time isn’t on your side. There are already one
or two players in the same club as you who want your spot. But how many more are there
waiting in the wings? Know what I mean? So the advice I might give
you is to always take a good look
at yourself. Basically, you need
to be like Tiger Woods, because Aurélien Tchouaméni, OK,
he’s been on a fast trajectory, he’s played for Monaco,
the French team, now Madrid. OK, everything you’ve done
before has got you to Madrid. Now, what you have to do next,
what you do tomorrow, it’s now that you have
to plan for it. What you have, what you
know how to do, it’s under your belt. Now, what more can you
bring to your game that will push you further? Maybe it’s scoring,
setting yourself a number of goals to score every season
so you’re on everyone’s radar. Or maybe, I don’t know,
maybe it’s being the star player,
so when the coach puts the team together, your name’s top of the list. Because you’ll have put in the work,
you might have changed your diet, you might have… We needed to discuss
your diet. I had a cookie
before we started. That’s not bad. No, maybe… Basically, just take
a good look at yourself. Because if you don’t, There’s always someone better than you. That’s true of industry.
– And it happens. In every industry. I’ve been lucky enough to be
pitted against the best players, Hernán Crespo. Crespo, like Peter Thiel
we were talking about before. He’s the man, he’s a machine,
he’s got real style, his calls for the ball are pure class. Everything he did
was sharp, clean… So you’re there,
you’re on the pitch and you look at him. The coach decides to
pit us against each other. So I play, I play a match,
I score, the match after that, I’m first-team player. And the match after,
you start playing and you let your guard down. You scored last weekend,
you’re less focused on your game. Coach sends this guy to
warm up at the end of the 50th minute. And you see it too. You see it and you know
it’s Mourinho.. You know it’s Mourinho,
he lays it on the line. You see Crespo warming up
you hear the fans: “Hernán Crespo, Hernán Crespo.” So this is what you do.
You go: “Pass me the balls, pass me the balls. Yeah, they pass you the balls,
you do what you need to do, you miss, go sit down. You go sit down,
whilst you’re sitting there, this dude gets half a chance, first touch, bam, he scores. You can think: “Shit,
next weekend, I’m not playing, I’m not playing, I’m not starting
next weekend. The following weekend,
he starts, same thing, he doesn’t score. Coach says: “go and warm up.”
You get dressed fast. You run, you warm up,
you go on, you need to score. The problem is though,
your head’s not where it needs to be. But you go for it, you go for it
because the coach got you off the bench and because you didn’t score. Fine, I did lots of other
things that helped the team, but I didn’t score. On top of that, you’ve got
this super-talented guy next to you. The worst thing is that
you get on well, it’s such healthy competition
that you’re just like: He’s too good and he
must be thinking the same. “That guy…”
he must be thinking the same. One day, we’re playing in Liverpool
and winning 4-1 and I’ve made four decisive passes.
We finish the match, I’m in the locker room,
I’m spent, I’m like this, and our eyes meet.
He’s in the same state as me. He says: “You, very good.” I say: “No, no. Me, no.
You, very good.” He says: “I’m tired”.
I say: “I’m tired too.” Let’s go and see the coach.
So we go and see the coach. I say to him: “Honestly,
I’m fed up with playing alone, it feels like a real
cliché. I pass, I’m not allowed
to move on the pitch.” And he says: “OK right, you want to play?
You want to play together?” I say: “Yeah, honestly,
me and Hernán get on well.” “OK, fine.”
We go to Manchester United. He has us both starting. We start. I’m on the right side and
Hernán’s on the left, opposite each other. Something’s off,
something’s off. At half-time
coach says: “Two players came to the locker room
to see me. Yeah, we want to play together.”
– He rats you out. We’re family, we tell each other everything. “Didier and Hernán came to me, they want to
play together. OK, now, go play.” What are you doing? Play! So we go play. They scored two goals.
We lost. We went home. What’s special about Mourinho
is that the following match, he made us both
first-team players. And we smashed it. I helped him score,
he helped me score, we won, we played a few
matches like that. Then at the end of the season,
he left because he had other plans, but he was one of the…
one of the pairings, one of the people I
loved working with. There was a rivalry there,
but it was healthy competition and I learnt a lot from him. So I think that if you
learn from your teammates, you can improve too. You can move up the ladder. That’s good advice, basically
you can’t succeed on your own. Listen guys,
thank you for joining us on the show.
It’s been a pleasure sharing this with you all. I hope you’ve had
a good time too. We certainly have. Thank you for inviting us.
– Thank you. It’s a pleasure.
– It’s been an honour. Thank you. And we’ll meet up again in San Antonio. – That’s right. Let’s set a date. We’ve got it on tape. We’d like to thank you
for watching and we’ll see you next time.