Golf Talk Live – Coaches Corner + Andrew Bravant – Teaching & Tour Professional

Welcome to Golf Talk Live! This week’s Coaches Corner Panel: Jon Decker -Currently,Teaching Professional at the New Albany Country Club (2007- current). In 2015 he was named the Southern Ohio Teacher of the Year. Prior Head Instuctor at the Grand Cypress Academy of Golf in Orlando, where he worked under Top 100 Instructors Fred Griffin & Phil Rodgers. He’s authored the book “Golf Is My Life: Glorifying God Through the Game.” He’s a motivational speaker around the US and has a new Bible Study with his book.” Clint Wright -30 year member of the PGA, Partner at TGM Golf, a big proponent of The R3 Approach. One of the best covering the short game today. One of my favorite guests. This week’s special guest: Andrew Bravant – Teaching Professional & Tour Professional. More on Andrew: Since stepping up to his first tee shot at the age of 5 years old, British born, Andrew Bravant has walked some of the most prestigious fairways and greens in the world. He has competed with players such as Rory Mcllroy, Ross Fisher and the 2015 Masters winner Danny Willet. Join me LIVE – Thursdays 6:00 – 8:00PM Central. Golf Talk Live is also available as a Podcast at itunes.com & Stitcher.com

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Love talk to radio. [Music] Heat. Heat. [Music] All right, good evening everybody and welcome to Golf Talk Live. I’m your host Ted Odico and we got a great show for you tonight. As always, we’re going to be starting off here in just a moment uh with another great round of Coach’s Corner. And I got uh a couple of great guys here waiting in the wings and I’ll bring them out here in just a second uh that are going to be on the panel tonight. And then a little bit later on in the show, I’m going to be joined by he’s not only a teacher professional, but he’s also been a tour player as well. Uh Andrew Breant. Uh he’s going to be joining me on the second half of the show uh here in just a little bit. Um, but in the meantime, let me remind everybody, of course, we are live every Thursday evening from 6:00 to 8:00 p.m. Central or that’s 7:00 to 9:00 for those of you on the East Coast. And, uh, best way to find us, of course, is go to blogtalkradio.com and up in the search key, just type golf talk live and that will take you to the main page and you can listen to us live, of course, on Thursdays from 6:00 to 8:00 p.m. Uh, but for some reason, if you can’t join us live, not to worry. just visit that link at blogtalkradio.com/golftalk live and just scroll down to the on demand section and you can listen to the show in its entirety uh on the recorded version. Of course, all the shows are are autorecorded. Uh they are live Thursdays, but they are autorecorded so you can listen uh maybe when it’s convenient for you if you’re not able to join us live. Um, also, uh, if you’re somebody that likes to or prefers to listen under, uh, different social media platforms, you can go to either iTunes.com or Stitcher.com. And again, under the, uh, podcast section, you can just type in golf talk live, and that will take you there, uh, should you, uh, choose to listen to those platforms. And always would love to hear from you. Uh, we would love to have you call in if you want during the live broadcast on Thursdays. And you can do so by calling area code 646716-4667. Uh or you’re welcome to email me any questions or comments to the show um at ted.goltalklivegmail.com. Or maybe if you’re interested in being a guest on the show, if you’re a teacher professional or a golf coach or maybe you’re somebody uh that’s in the golf industry, maybe you’re an entrepreneur uh maybe written a great book and you want to come on and share your thoughts uh with the audience. Always glad to uh to bring some new guests on and you can do so by uh again emailing me at ted.golftalklivegmail.com and I’ll make sure to uh work you into the schedule. Uh always update on social media of course go to facebook.com and under golf talk live blog uh you can see it there or on uh my own personal page Tedd Rico you can see that there as well. I update every week as the guys will attest to uh through social media all of the uh upcoming guests and and different shows and so forth. So you can uh get the information there. Also on Twitter, my Twitter handle is Tenbuk CEO. CEO of course is in capital letters. Uh thanks for all the new and recent followers and thanks for all the retweets as well. I appreciate that. um immensely. Also on LinkedIn, go to linkedin.com and again under my personal page, Tedto Rico, uh I post every week uh the shows that are up and coming. So you can check all kinds of social media and get information there as well. Uh as I mentioned, I got a couple of great guys on the panel. They’ve been uh here many, many times. Uh and just a great uh group of professionals. First up, of course, is Clint Wright. Uh he’s a 30-year member of the PGA uh partner at TGM golf and a big proponent of the R3 approach uh which he’s talked about here on the show before. Uh also one of the best covering the short game today in my opinion and uh plus he’s become one of my favorite guests and panelists here on the coaches corner panel. Uh that’s why I love to have him back so many times. And another fast becoming a favorite as well is this gentleman who’s been on not only as a guest but a member of the coach’s corner panel. In fact, I think there’s something going on because the two of them are here always on the same time. But John Decker, currently a teacher professional at the New Albany Country Club in New Albany, Ohio. In 2015, he was named the Southern Ohio Teach Ohio, excuse me, teacher of the year. Prior to that, he was the head instructor at the Grand Cypress Academy of Golf in Orlando, Florida, where he worked under uh two top 100 instructors, Fred Griffin and Phil Rogers. and he’s the author of a great book, Golf is My Life: Glorifying God Through the Game, uh which he also now offers a uh Bible study with that book. And he’s also a motiv motivational speaker, uh traveling all over the US, uh helping others not only uplift their game, but just uplift their spirit. So guys, uh welcome to uh Golf Talk Live’s Coaches Corner. Glad to be here. Glad to be here, Ted. Thank you. All right. Appreciate it. Um all right, guys. Uh, as I mentioned off air, what we’re going to talk a little bit about uh is some golf course facts. Uh, I actually had uh a similar discussion uh earlier this week with Cindy, in fact, last week as well uh on my other program, Women of Golf, which airs Tuesdays uh from 9 to 10 a.m. Eastern here on the blogtalkradio.com network. And uh but I wanted to run some things past you as well. So, we’re going to talk about that. And I guess the first question, and it’s really sort of up in the air. Uh John, I’m going to start with you this time. Um, a lot of questions that that people ask, uh, I wanted to put down tonight and and these are things that some of our especially our amateur golfers may not know the answers to, but I think it’s equally important that they do. And first one, uh, what a lot of people don’t realize is when it comes to marking out the yardage for each hole, are the yardages listed to the front, the center, or the back of the green? That’s a great question. Um, you know, I’ve I’ve been to golf courses that have have different uh approaches to that. Um, some golf courses, uh, like at New Albany, uh, we have the yardages, uh, to the front, middle, and to the center. Um, your average on your average public golf course, uh, they’re going to be to the center of the green. Uh, they’re not going to do them to the back of the green. Um, and, um, I believe it was at work. I played at Alworth years ago and they mark them to the front of the greens. Now that could have changed. This was, you know, good 10 years ago, but um they there are some golf courses that do that as well, but but most golf courses would would market to the center of the green. I I think if you took a an average of all the golf courses out there where you’re talking about 100 yard markers, 150 yard markers. Yeah, and you’re exactly right. Uh and the reason obviously is they want consistency and and continuity. But but John, I want you to add to that. Uh in addition as to why that’s important um where the yardage marker is and where they’re marking to uh especially for players coming to their approach shot. Obviously you want to know where they’re marking it to because it’s going to make a big difference. So maybe talk a little bit and expand a little bit about that why it is important. Well it’s very important. The number one thing that I want any golfer to know when it comes to playing on the golf course is how far their ball goes in the air. Um, I get so many people that say, “Well, I hit my seven iron 150 yards,” but they they carry it 140 and it’s not really hit well and it rolls 10 yards. So, they they’re really not hitting the ball 150 yards in the air. So, the majority of times when you when you kind of get in the if you could be a little u uh fly on the wall between the conversations between a tour player and a caddy, one of the first questions the tour player wants to know is what is it to the front of the green? They want to know that that distance. That is very important. Your average golfer is going to be hitting um longer clubs, hybrids, um maybe fairway woods, um if they’re going for the green and two. So, they have to know how far they can hit the ball. They have to allow for the run out because when you hit a hybrid, I don’t care if you’re a tour player or a beginner, you’re not going to just stop a hybrid. A hybrid or a fairway wood is going to roll. So, you have to know, you have to factor that in. Most people have no clue about that. They just look at the total distance that the ball went in the air and roll and they count that as their total distance when they’re figuring their yardage. Then they get on a par three where they have a 150 yard shot over water and they’re dead. Uh because they say, “Well, I always hit, you know, this club, a seven iron or whatever.” And their ball comes up short and, you know, they’ve just missed club. They have not taken the appropriate club for the shot. So, um, you know, carry distance is very important. Um, you know, if they’re hitting a lot of third shots, if they’re if they’re not able to get to the green and two, then obviously they’re going to have like an eight iron or a nine iron wedges in their hand, then then the carry distance, then you can be a little a lot more precise uh, and my ball goes 110 yards because you’re not getting all that roll. So, it’s a lot easier to figure out your yardage. And and the simple way to do that is when the next time you go out and play is when you hit a shot, if you have no idea, you don’t have access to a driving range and you don’t have any way of knowing, you know, don’t go to where your ball is. Go find your ball mark. Mark it off to your ball mark and that gives you a good idea. Uh if you’ll start doing that, you’ll start figuring out how far your ball’s carrying. Yeah. Well, well said. Great answer, uh, John. and and you know obviously it’s going to become very apparent very quickly here through the conversation tonight the reason why you know I’m throwing these questions up here um because you know it’s not just about everybody sort of focuses on hitting the perfect shot and making sure their swing looks good but if you get on the golf course and you don’t understand some of the basic information uh at hand and made available to you uh and understand why things are marked the way they are or why uh or where they’re marked to um then you get into as you just pointed out all kinds of trouble, you start secondguessing and you start questioning or you start making poor judgment uh and and poor decisions uh in your shot making. So, it doesn’t matter whether you can hit the ball well or not. If you’re not making sound decisions on the golf course, uh the strokes are still going to add up and and you’re not going to post a very good score. So, great answer, John. Thanks for that. Um Clint, of course, I got a good one for you as well. We’re going to jump ship here and do it something a little bit differently. Um a lot of people ask this. Uh they have a general idea, but maybe you can shed a little bit more light. There’s obviously uh a number of stakes or some courses market with lines uh different colors on on there. Uh you know we have white stakes, yellow stakes, red stakes, that sort of thing and some other colors as well. We don’t need to get into all of them, but maybe you can give us a general overview uh of what the stakes are there for andor lines in some courses marked with lines or both. Um tell us what they’re uh there for, what their function is and again playing with the sort of the strategy in mind. Knowing that information, how is that going to help you out in the golf course? Well, I think it’s real basic. I mean, you look that according to the USGAA rule book, we we mark water hazards with yellow lines or stakes, lateral hazards with red, and out- of-bounds with white. Uh it it’s obviously just a simple definition of the of the different areas of of the golf course, which is all encompassed in what we call, you know, through the green. uh as far as what we play the game on. Um right in reality there’s only one place that you cannot play the ball and that’s when it’s not on the golf course and that being out of bounds. Um you can step in that water hazard and and and go for it. No, nothing in the rule book says you can’t try to hit it out of that 3ft deep water. You know, it’s just a decision you’re making and you can’t play it from there. And because of that we need to define where your options start as far as water hazards are concerned. Uh so that’s why we have a line and the stakes are simply just indicators of what it is. Um the line is the most important issue if they draw lines. Uh if there’s no lines, then you know from the base of the stake on the inside of the golf co inside of the stake uh back to the other one establishes a line on the ground. Um that then gives a player some options uh to what to do and then they have to make decisions on on what they do based on the circumstances in front of them, their playability for the day. Uh so it just simply the lines simply give you um a place to start if you’re not going to play it from where it comes to comes to rest as far as strategies are concerned. I mean with a with a normal water hazard or regular hazard being yellow line you really only have two choices. I mean, you can go back to where you hit it from, uh, or you just keep the point where it last crossed that line or what we call the margin between you and the flag and go back as far as you want to. Uh, many people may remember that at the Masters with Tiger Woods, right? And determining when he hit it, I think it was on 15, hit the ball in the water, uh, trying to determine where to drop. And there was some questions on whether he actually dropped it properly. And I think they eventually determined that he had um so that strategy there to me is when I hit it in a regular h water hazard and I’ve got control of my distance then I’m going to pick coming back to what John just mentioned to go about how far I’m going to fly the ball. I’m going to pick that distance that I’m going to drop it in my wheelhouse. I’m going to get it to my best shot. I see so many people that hit it in a regular water hazard. They step back about three steps in the water and drop the ball. Yeah. And you know the flag shortsided on the front and they’ve got this little 60yard flop shot. They’ve got no chance of getting it close from there. They can’t hit it hard enough to spin it. So you back up into that that that you’re really your best shot uh in order to do that. And in most cases, your yach your regular water hazards are relatively close to the green. There’s some exceptions, but most of them are front of greens. And so you you got some chances of controlling the shots you’re going to hit. Um you can watch it on tour. They do that. They having a drop. They’re asking her caddy, “How far is it from here? Where do I want to land the ball?” And then they drop it appropriately to the best distance they have. um a regular hazard somewhat the same, but you don’t have quite the the control of distance there. Uh but but you you do have a chance to to get a little better angle possibly depending on where you’re at. Making sure you drop it to give yourself an advantage. Anytime you have the ball in your hand and you’re taking a penalty shot, you want to drop it in a place that’s going to give you the best chance to use your best shot to to make up uh for what you may be being penalized for. Uh so as far as those things are concerned, that’s the strategy that I encourage the players to do is when when you got the golf ball in your hand and you’re having a drop, you need to give some thought to what’s your best shot that you could play from here, the one you have the most confidence in. and try to get yourself into that position. Right. Well said, uh, Clint. Thank you. Um, and you’re exactly right. And just to add to that, you know, I think knowing, um, and understanding where the hazards are to begin with also can work into strategy. Knowing how to how to prepare and plan your shots. you know, obviously if you know that there’s uh out of bounds down the lefth hand side of a fairway, um then you know, you want to make sure that you aim appropriately that you’re not going to bring that into play and end up uh getting yourself in in all kinds of hot water. So, um I don’t know whether I would go there quite so much as I I’m more concerned with a player without bounds is to focus on where they want to hit it, right? Not necessarily aiming away from the trouble. Um, that’s a more of a positive approach in my opinion of saying, “Okay, you know, this is a tight hole. Let’s say I got out of bounds on one side or the other. I’m not going to worry. Maybe the strategy would come is I’m going to go again to my favorite shot. I may not hit driver. I I really like my fivewood here. I may give up a little yardage. Let me play that club. That’s a safety play. But I want them focusing on where they want the ball to go, not necessarily where they don’t want it to go, but they still have and and you’re confidence in Yeah. No, you’re you’re exactly right. No, you’re exactly right. And and I I agree 100% with you. Um John, I want to bounce back to you now. Um, we’re going to talk about um another area uh about um bunkers and and if there’s um there’s really two parts to this question, so I’m going to lump them together here. Um and this is really it’s kind of surprising answer to most uh but this is a question that the first part of it anyway is that a lot of people don’t know or don’t understand. Um and it comes to the rakes in a bunker. uh should the rakes be left inside or outside of the bunker? Does it matter or is it up to the individual course uh decision? And um what are some of the pitfalls uh having it either way? Um that’s a really interesting question. Um, you know, when I first came up to, um, New Albany, um, they actually had a rule, a local rule that you were supposed to keep the rakes in the bunkers because they wanted it for the maintenance staff to not have to get out and have to move them, you know, help them and everything. But but my I actually talked to the green superintendent about this and I said, you know, the problem that you have with that is is for a person, let’s say I hit my ball in the in the bunker and my ball is not near my rake. I have to walk into the bunker to get the rake. Now I’m not allowed to rake my footprints because that’s testing the sand. Now I have to walk out. I have to go hit my shot, rake myself. Now I got to come back and rake where I’ve made the footprints to go get it. So, um, I think that what I prefer to see and what and and and I think that there’s all kinds of probably there’s not a quote unquote rule. I think that I think every golf course, but I think the best way to do it is to have it where the rake part the teeth should always be down for safety standpoint because you would never want to stand on the, you know, step on the teeth, the rake could pop up and hit you like in the cartoons. Um, so I always tell people put your teeth down and and put the teeth in the sand, but have the handle sticking out so someone can walk up and grab the and grab the rake uh and and and get it that way. If you put it on if you put them on the outside again, um, then the maintenance staff has to deal with them, you know, in the mornings and the afternoons or whatever or mornings, I guess, when they’re when they’re cutting and stuff and so um, but a lot of times when they’re coming in and raking, they’re they’re taking them out anyway. So, but but in most cases, I see the the the teeth are in, the the the rake is the head part is in, and then the handle is sticking out, right? Um just to to clarify for those of you tuning into the show tonight, um uh John, you’re exactly correct. There is no tried andrude answer to this. Uh it really depends on the uh golf course, uh what their rule is. Um, some, as you pointed out, John, may prefer it to be in, uh, the bunker. Uh, some, uh, and that may be just more for convenience. Some of the pitfalls though that, which is kind of interesting really when you think about this, guys, is this. Um, from a player standpoint, uh, whether they’re in or out of the bunker is if you hit a shot towards the bunker and if the rake is outside, uh, it could potentially deflect the ball from going into the bunker. And conversely, if the rake is in uh or actually could knock it into the bunker as well, um or have the adverse effect where if it’s the rake is placed in the bunker, uh it could prevent the ball from staying in a bunker and actually ricochet it back out into play. So, there’s some advantages and disadvantages to either way, but again, uh you need to check with your your local course on that, uh what the rule of thumb is. Certainly, they’re not going to throw you off the course if you make a mistake, but um you know, it is information that you you do need to ask and inquire about. Uh and the other thing, John, I’m going to ask you to just to to run on this one as well. Uh this is a a bunker question because a lot of people don’t understand and you you sort of alluded to it a little bit uh when you talked about trapesing through the bunker to get to the other side. Um, is there a correct way or generally rule of thumb in in raking a bunker uh after play or what’s the what’s the procedure if you will? That’s a another great question and I would encourage any any golf fan out there. If you go you’re not going to be able to really see this if you’re watching on television. Go to a PGA Tour event and watch the Caddies and watch how they rake the bunkers. Um, and and keep in mind they have pristine bunkers there. And you may not have pristine bunkers at your golf course, but but I you know what you don’t want to be doing is picking it up and jabbing it in the ground and pulling and and and pulling a bunch of sand. You want to kind of push the sand. If you watch the guys, they’ll push the sand out away from them. And that that is the the really the most effective way to to rake a bunker. You don’t want to leave a lot of grooves with the teeth marks. And and that happens when you push down into the sand too hard. It’s a it you really I when we do a junior clinic, I teach every single junior golfer how to rake a bunker and I line them up and I and I just say rake this and and then I’ll say no and I’ll correct them and make them do it and then I get the next one in and they all learn from each other and it takes about 10 minutes but it’s an important part of uh the key thing is is that you rake the bunker but it I you know if you rake the bunker the wrong way and somebody behind you hits it in there and they know you rake the bunker and it and and you they get behind a big club of they are going to be upset and um you know I think that you know it’s that’s the you know the great thing about about golf is is when you get in trouble in the bunker and you’re usually in trouble when you’re in the bunker you you leave the area pristine for the next person and um you know it’s just a great example I think of of the the great qualities of the game of golf and the way people should treat people in life, you know, is that you you always try to make things better for the next person. And that’s the rule that that I try to um pass on to to junior golfers and and a lot of lessons because I get people who ask me these questions and lessons and u you know, I didn’t know I was supposed to rake the bunker. You know, I didn’t know that was what I was supposed to do. So, it’s important that that you uh educate people uh on that, right? Again, well said, John. you know, the the reason guys that I you know, they might seem very simple questions to to us here on the panel um because we’re in the business. We understand um a lot of the terminology and a lot of things that we’re discussing tonight and and many of the other evenings that we’ve been on together. But there’s a lot of golfers out there, believe it or not, especially new beginning golfers, junior golfers, that don’t know some of the rules, don’t understand this. And it’s really uh our due diligence, if you will. We need to make sure that we’re doing that and educating uh new golfers coming out and especially junior golfers coming out that they understand um the the basics and the general rules of the game. And you’d be surprised, Jonas and and Clint, I’m sure that you’ve all experienced is how many people um that you come across, especially that haven’t played very much that don’t know the answer to many of the questions that we’ve talked about here on the on the panel discussions. Um, and it’s not all just about strategy, and it’s not all just about, uh, you know, fine-tuning your your golf game. It’s understanding how to play the game and how to actually conduct yourself out in the golf course. And I think once you do that, as you pointed out just u a second ago, John, is you want to make sure that you leave the the course better than you found it. And the only way to do that is to understand some of the protocol and some of the rules, if you will, as you go out. Um, great answer. Thanks John for for doing that. Um let I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I just wanted to mention one quick thing is some golf courses the rake is actually on your golf cart and so you you don’t they’re not there. And that’s something just because it happens a lot where people they don’t know that and and that’s kind of when I get to a new golf course I always look is there a rake on there? You know those are things because that to me that’s kind of a pain to have to keep up with a rake. But, um, I just wanted to throw that out there, too. And that will happen for new players. They’ll go, “Well, where’s the rakes?” And it’s, “Well, it’s on the cart.” So, just that’s another important tidbit, I think. Yeah. No, you’re right. And I think a lot of courses have have done that probably for some of the reasons we talked about is they’re trying to be more efficient. They’re trying to make it easier for for the grounds uh keeping crew and and uh and that. And so I’m sure there’s a lot of reasons, but yeah, you you definitely need to make sure and that again goes into some of the etiquette and and some of the uh uh understanding of of how to play the game uh before you get to the golf course. Make sure you understand that. Um Clint, I’m I’m going to go to you on this question here. Um we’re all going to sort of jump in here in a moment, but I want you to to um talk a little bit uh or explain the difference for those that maybe especially on the cusp of the President’s Cup. Uh the difference between stroke and match play. what are the differences? Uh, and then we’re going to all talk a little bit about uh some things about pertaining to match play um in in relationship to uh this weekend’s uh event. So, sure. So, start with stroke play uh and then go to match play and then uh John, you’ll jump in here as well and we’ll talk I’ve got some other questions uh pertaining to Sure. If people look at the rule book there there um you know rule number one defines the game. Uh it’s a very simple statement there. says you hit a ball in succession of strokes until it’s hold in accordance with the rules basically. Mhm. The next two rules are how we keep score, how you determine who the winner is. Uh in match play, uh it can be two against two, two against one. Uh all different forms of match play. Uh actually if you if you look at the rule book we call a forsome if you go to Scotland or Europe and play in a forsome you’re going to be surprised. Um because we actually in America play four ball uh in most cases. All right. Um but in match play regardless of the configuration of the match it is the winner is determined by who has won more holes. So there’s no complete total score. Um, so once one hole is completed, the winner is determined and then you start all over on the second hole uh with with playing that one. You go through until uh some player has won more holes. Uh then there’s holes left, right? And uh and there’s a lot of terms involved like dormy and all square. Uh some of us may have seen that in NAA uh NCAA uh championships just recently where there was a match play at the end and there was discussions about dormy all square uh up and down. Uh so match players um determines the winner by the number of holes is one and obviously stroke play is what we see the most of in America particularly on tour uh to where uh stroke play is determined by the person that plays the the round or the tournament regardless of what it’s uh number of holes is. Whoever plays the course in the least number of strokes is determined the winner. So in match play we we go by the by the hole. Generally matches start and end at 18 holes. Some are 36. Um and then again it starts all over the next day where in stroke play it’s a total of the entire tournament and the lowest uh lowest ones wins. So just real simple fact of how we determine who wins a particular tournament. Yeah. And you know, as you pointed out, most people here uh you know, in in North America, you know, Canada’s the same way. Uh we play uh stroke play, uh which is probably the most common. And and the reason why I wanted to to talk about this is again, obviously, um and John, I’m going to get you to jump in here as well. Uh we obviously have this weekend the President’s Cup, of course, uh uh Team USA and and of course the international uh team are are playing this weekend. And of course they’re playing uh under rule two which is of course match play. And what’s interesting about that and and and John I’m going to start with you is obviously there’s a lot of strategy that’s going to be going on here um right from uh the get-go right from the captain’s picks uh and and as far as uh and the pairings. I want you just talk a little bit about that um how important that is and then Clint I’ve got something that I want to ask you as well uh that we’ll continue the conversation. And so, so John, if you don’t mind, just start with that maybe a little bit how important it is for for the captains and and the assistant captains to really come together and and pair up their their guys uh against their opponents and also um come up with a strategy uh on how to to make sure that they’re going to be successful uh come Sunday. Well, that’s a that’s a great question. And I think there’s if there’s one thing that I could experience in my life, it would be to sit in one of those meeting rooms and listen to these conversations because what I’m going to give you is is speculation what I think they’re doing. Sure. Uh but who knows because you’re dealing with so many different captains and so many different strategies. You know, there’s a there’s a lot of time when you pair up people. Some guys will will pair a lot of captains will pair an experienced player with a newer player. um like the the howal Sutton when he put Tiger Woods and Phil Mickelson together that went down and they lost uh years ago that went down as one of the biggest uh blunders because you took two strong players and paired them together. So basically you had one quote unquote invincible team which ended up losing. And the thing about match play is is you can have the best player in the world can lose to the 150th player in the world. uh or maybe not the 150th but but but someone maybe who’s 40th in the world um in in at any moment uh match play there’s so many things that can happen so you have to look at how you know the camaraderie part players get along with each other I think uh there’s and we all can attest to this there’s some players that I’ve played with in my lifetime when I play with them I just play better for whatever reason their game kind of suits my game and we kind of get in a groove and I seem to always play well with them. And then there’s other players I get with no matter what we do, we just never click and maybe our personalities don’t click. Maybe we don’t um you know, a lot of times it can be the way we see putts. You know, I’m more of a die putter and they might be more of an aggressive putter. So, they’re they’re going to see different lines than I would see. So, those are the things that you could look at. Then you have like power hitters versus the control players. I I I think it’s always great when you get an alternate shot, for example, to have a power hitter and pair him up with someone who is maybe uh more of a, you know, a really good putter. Uh so there’s, you know, like for example, Tiger Woods and Steve Stricker, that was always a very solid pairing. You know, Tiger Woods in his heyday was the power hitter, Steve Stricker was the putter. That makes a lot of sense. You would not want to pair up two power hitters together or two two guys that are great putters together. Uh you want to have a balance there and and then the players got to go out. You can come out with every formula in the world, but if the player goes out and lays an egg, it doesn’t matter. And then the coach gets blamed. So the ultimately ultimately and the thing about match play that’s very interesting is is I have played match play before where I have played poorly and I have won. And I’ve played match play before where I have played just out of sight and played great and lost. Um, it ultimately becomes down to your what your opponent, you know, you against your opponent because I could make a double bogey on a hole and still win the hole or I could make a par on the hole or even a birdie and lose the hole. So, it’s just really uh an interesting element. uh ultimately uh the be the best team or the best player will ultimately uh you know if they play well typically you know everything kind of evens out and and um when you look at like the Europeans against the Americans uh the one thing that they would always do is they would kill us in the individuals and uh and they were great putters but uh you know through last few years you know we’ve we’ve definitely improved in that area so it’s a great it’s a great uh conversation for golfers to sit around and talk about pairings. I love that aspect. I would love to sit in a meeting room and just listen. I wouldn’t want to put my two cents worth in, but I would just like to listen to what actually goes on in there. Yeah. And and and you’re exactly right. Uh well said, John. You know, it’s obviously a lot of pressure for these captains and uh you know, it goes with the territory. They’re obviously going to get some flak and some feedback. Uh some of it can be negative, some can be positive depending on obviously the outcome of the matches. Um you know, everybody’s the hero when when your team wins, but um you know, when your team loses, uh you know, there there’s always it’s really the coach that that uh feels the heat. Um, Clint, I want to switch a little bit with you on this and and I want you to really, if you would, uh, instead of looking at from the strategy from the from the coaching side and and the captain side, uh, look at it from, uh, the player standpoint. Um, you know, what’s going through their mind? Obviously, again, this is we’re sort of summarizing here and and guessing a little bit. Um but obviously that there’s going to be key times throughout um the the the matches where um a junior player, one that’s maybe not had a lot of experience, uh is going to be asking him himself, you know, how am I going to handle this situation? What am I going to do as a coach or a captain, excuse me, pardon me? What’s the conversation that you’re going to have with your junior players or your your newbies, if you will, to an event like this? And what’s the conversation that you’re going to have uh with your more experienced players? Well, I think I’m going to talk to my most experienced players first. Um, to to bring them, you know, kind of into the fold and for them to truly understand that they’re there to play great golf, but they’re also on this team to to calm the the nerves of the young player. Get them to feel at ease because they can remember when they were a rookie player, either on the RDER Cup or the President’s Cup. They understand the emotions. they’ve already experienced it and they’ve learned over a period of time how to manage it. It’s become normal for them. You know, uh I I’m sure that that playing in the President’s Cup and the Ryder Cup for Phil Mickelson is still exciting, but it but he’s been there. He knows it’s normal for him. So, and then I’m going to go to my young players and tell them to crank it up and let’s have some fun and and and play as hard as you can. Um, and but the the experienced players are going to have to reach out to the young players to to bring them in because if you take the players on the President’s Cup right now, the the young players, they’re, you know, they’re like raceh horses. They’re ready to run. Uh, and so they’re not going to really be able to keep themselves calmed down. They’re most likely not going to ask something of the more experienced players. So, I’m going to really impress on my experienced players. They have to take the lead in calming that player down. They’re going to be the ones got to reach out to them when they see that young player getting a little too excited, maybe a little too pumped up to pull them over to the side and tell them, “Now, take a few deep breaths here, son. Let’s just slow everything down and go back to playing some golf.” But my experienced players are going to have to show show that seniority and that leadership to reach out and and bring them back in. Um, and tell the young players, hey, don’t be offended when they come over and tell you to calm down a little bit because that’s what they’re going to do. Don’t be offended. Don’t get upset. They’re trying to bring you back in to help everybody calm down and and stay, you know, you can use all kind of cliché. Stay in the moment. You know, breathe and and and enjoy what’s going on. you know, don’t be in such a hurry. Yeah. And it’s only natural. It Well said, Clint. Thank you. Um, you know, it’s only natural. Some of the the more junior players uh that maybe haven’t played in this type of an event before, maybe it’s their first time, uh, are certainly going to be very excited, uh, and and, uh, ambitious and and, you know, everything that you said uh, right from the get-go. So, you know, you certainly don’t want to squelch that. uh you want them to to really get out there and you want that high energy to really bring up some of the the more seasoned players, but at the same time, you know, you’ve got to be mindful that they don’t get too ahead of themselves and and then you get sort of an arrogance and a cockiness starts to develop throughout the the matches as well. Um so, it’s an interesting dialogue and conversation. John, I want to jump you back in here as well on this. Um there’s obviously a point in the match uh you know right now it’s it’s day one so you know I’m not going to give out uh even though we all know what the what the current standings are just in case somebody hasn’t like us got home late from work and doesn’t know where things are at right now I’m not going to spill the beans and let everybody know where where the matches stand but um you know there comes a point in time in in in play and it’s certainly all John important from from day one to the final day, but the crunch comes on uh and and points start adding up and the teams are getting up and and there’s very few points left. Is there a shift in mode, do you think, with the players and even the captains when they say, “Okay, you know, we’re within two points or maybe we’re five points behind.” Is there a shift in momentum? Do you think at that point that the the captains are going to say to their players, okay, these particular matches here, we’ve got to really step it up in order to make sure we close the deal here. Uh your thoughts on that? Well, you know, the thing about golf is is I I think that I think that they probably take the opposite approach because um and what I mean by that is is when you’re in the Ryder Cup or the President’s Cup. Um I and you you ask you the I’ve heard this said many times by tour players, they are more nervous in the Ryder Cup because they are playing for a team. They’re playing for the country. uh and they are more nervous playing in that event than they are playing in the Masters or the US Open. I’ve heard that from numerous tour players say that. So the the you don’t have to get them up. They are already up. If anything, um you have to you have to kind of tone them down a little bit. Um, when you look at a guy like Patrick Reid or somebody like that, the last thing I would have to ever have tell Patrick Reid is to, you know, you need to like get more emotional because that guy is like a firecracker. Um, but but yes, if there’s some if there’s a group that maybe uh you can tell a lot by their body language, uh the time I would base it, if I was the coach, I would base it on body language. I would if I see a guy and I know he’s struggling and he and I see his head going down um especially late when you get I you know I would tell the guys who are finished you know all right let’s go the rookiey’s out there he’s on number 16 or you know 15 or whatever I want you guys to go out there and give him moral support be with him you know in the gallery and you see that all the time they’re inside the ropes they’re giving moral support um you know I would have everybody the caddies the wives everybody body go out and support him, be out there, uh because that’s going to mean a lot to him. The last thing the rookie wants to to do is be out there by himself and not have anybody around uh and have all the attention, you know, u maybe in another group. I would look at body language um again is would be big part of it. And if if the guys are if they’re too jacked up, if they’re getting emotional, if there’s some maybe um you can just tell that they’re, you know, losing it that way, then you go over, you know, you may have to calm them down. But it’s a I think they’re I think they’re they’re pretty pumped up for the event to begin with. And uh the adrenaline’s kicking in. So, it’s it that’s where being a having a steady uh hand like a Steve Stricker. You look at Steve Stricker and you look at Davis Love, those guys are pretty steady Eddies, you know, they’re they are they’re not raw raw guys. Those guys are real lowkey guys. And um and that effect is is really needed when you have tour players out there and their adrenaline is in overdrive. And they are in overdrive. They’re not they’re not just out there calm and collective. They’re they’re nervous. And so, uh I think that’s always good to have a captain like that. Yeah, you’re you’re exactly right. And just on a side note, uh we would be remissed if we didn’t congratulate Davis Love the third, of course, for his recent inductee as an inductee into the World Golf Hall of Fame that just took place the other night and watched some of the uh uh discussions and and speeches. of course the the others as well, Loreno Choa and um Meg Malin uh as well as I’m talking about the players in this case, but uh all inducted into the World Golf Hall of Fame. So I know that they’re very uh pleased and very proud of of that accomplishment. All right, Clint. Um we’re going to talk about something I know that uh I’m sure is a favorite area of yours and that falls under rule 16, which is of course the putting green. Um just a couple of questions I’m going to throw out there and then John, I’m going to get you back here as well on maybe one or two and then uh Believe it or not, we’re we’re running by here pretty quick. Um, this is a question that a lot of people um, believe it or not, have asked me. Um, if any part of the ball is touching the green, in other words, doesn’t all have to be on there. Uh, is that considered to be on the green or does it Okay, so it doesn’t all have to be on the green. Is that correct? As long as the ball is touching the green, it’s on the green, I believe. Yes. Perfect. Yes, you’re exactly right. Um, correct. No explan Yeah, no explanation there. And and there’s a reason because there are certain things that you can do when the ball is on the green that you can’t do when it’s off. So, it’s good to know that rule. That’s falls under rule 16. It’s one of the uh terms, if you will, or the things under under the putting green for rule 16. Um, Clint, I’m going to ask you this next one, and then John, I’m going to jump to you. Uh when your ball is on the green, as we’ve now established, uh you may certainly brush away leaves and other loose impediments, but they cannot touch the line uh your your line of putt. Is that correct or incorrect? Well, you mean to move a loose impediment? Yeah. Yeah, you can you can move in other loose impediments, but otherwise do not touch your line of putt. So, in other words, you can move things uh but you can’t actually touch the line of putt. Correct. That that’s correct. You can you in in the process of removing loose impediment or whatever you you can use whatever you need to to to um to remove that but beyond that you you can point at the line and indicate the line but you can’t touch it. That’s correct. Right. You actually ruling uh that was kind of interesting, not mine specifically that I saw. The question was, can you take a battery pack leaf blower? This is like in the fall there’s a lot of leaves. Maybe can you use a battery pack leaf blower to remove leaves and stuff from off your putting line? Can you do that? I would say yes. I’ve never heard that idea. Yeah, you can. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and you know that came up used to you didn’t have the battery packs. Now you got these battery pack little leaf blowers. You can stuff it in your bag, take it out there and blow your line off with it. And long as it’s not undo uh delay of play. Wow. So yeah, they might even give you a job at the golf course if you do that. That’s right. That’s right. Your aid. But no, I mean you got all all methods. Just don’t touch it. You know, that’s the thing. But the the difference now is is that let’s say the ball is not on the green. It’s in the fringe. What can you remove off the green at that point? Nothing. Sure, you can move everything else. You can always lo move a loose impediment. Yeah. And you can and you can move sand. You can’t move sand that’s not on the grain. Right. If that sand is in the fringe, you can’t move it out of your way. Right. And that brings to going back to the bunker discussion. A lot of people don’t realize that if they uh are in a bunker, greenside bunker, and loft a bunch of sand, uh they can’t remove that um in the fringe, but they can. You’re right, on the putting surface. Um right. But now, let’s ask what happens if your ball is on the fringe. My ball is in the bunker. I then hit my bunker shot and land sand between your ball and the fringe. Uh what can you do now? I believe you uh you still can move that because you’re entitled to see you being the player in the fringe, you’re entitled to what your shot gave you, right? If I blocked a bunch of dirt up there in front of your ball, you you’d be able to to move that in order to have the shot that you had. I just want to let you know, Clint, that I’d make you move it for me. But, uh, if you ever did that, um, all kidding aside, yeah, people get tied up in the rules. You know, the the main thing I try to tell people when they’re dealing with this stuff is com most rule situations are common sense. go out, play as close to the rules as you can, but enjoy your day. Um I I have a real hard time. So when I got a lot of guys, we’re out playing and they hit the ball in the edge of the trees, you know, and they’re around the roots and you know, move it away from the root. Oh, so that’s against the rules. I said, well, it might be, but I don’t want to have to c haul you off the golf course and take you to the doctor cuz the ball come back and hit you in the head. Yeah. Or you break your wrist. Yeah. I mean, move the thing away from the route and you know, and if you need to take a penalty, unplayable, go ahead. But we we want people to get around the golf course a little bit of fun and obviously in a safe manner. So, we I’m a real um a real proponent of, hey, you know, if you’re out there where you don’t want to be, it’s okay. Try to play it, but be be very safe with it. Um, you know, I actually encourage people to go out if there think there’s a route, take a tea and poke around your ball just to make sure it’s not there. Is that against the rules? Well, yeah, it is against the rules, but it’s going to make for a much safer play. Yeah. And and as long as you’re not in a tournament situation, then obviously uh you know, I I I agree with you. Um that’s right. Obviously, John Yeah, obviously John uh testing the surface of the green. uh you can’t roll a ball or or scrape the surface because again obviously you’re you’re you’re checking the the conditions of the green which is uh again a violation of the rules. Um but there are some things that you can do while you’re on the green um in order to assist uh in in putting and and maybe you can talk very briefly about some of those things uh that we see a lot of times the players do as they’re walking around. Why are they doing that? explain to to some of our listeners why uh quite often we will see even the caddies uh walking and and sort of what are they testing and what are they looking at? Well, you’re talking about the slopes. Um you know, the the things that you want to do when you’re on the greens, number one is you want to repair your ball marks. Uh and you want to you I always tell people repair yours and if you’re not holding up play, repair another one. But yes, uh when you’re walking on the green, you can test the surface with your feet because uh you’ll see I you see uh Adam Scott will do this where he’ll walk halfway between uh if he’s got a 20 foot putt, he’ll walk out there and he’ll literally stand in his line and he’ll he’ll do his feet back and forth and just kind of use the weight of his body to figure out where the downhill is because it’s very easy when you walk to uh and you can I I I often have my students close their eyes and walk in a circle around the hole and and just have them, you know, get the feel of going, okay, now you’re going, you feel yourself, you’re going uphill, now you’re kind of leveling off, now you’re going downhill. So, I want them to start reading the greens with their using their feet. And that’s perfectly legal, obviously. Um, I would not ever, one thing that the average golfer needs to understand is when you’re doing this, be aware of where other people are. if you’re walking testing the green with your feet uh and you’re in their line, they’re not going to be happy about that. So, make sure that you’re uh you know, aware of that. And, uh and the other thing is is you can do all of this stuff in a fast, expedient manner. Do not wait till it’s your turn to putt to do all this. This is stuff that you can do as you’re approaching the green. The best way to actually read a green is from about 100 to 150 yards out uh as you start approaching it because you have a very good view of the pitch of the green and then when I get on the green, confirm it and then go with it. Go with your initial gut uh initial instincts. Don’t sit there in second and third guess yourself uh over and over again because then you get doubt in your mind and even if you’re if you’ve read it properly, if you have doubt, you’re you’re not going to putt very well. So um you know green reading is is an art form. It takes experience uh and it takes a lot of uh understanding of how an architect builds a green, right? And and you’re you’re exactly right and and and you know, as I said at the beginning, guys, one of the things that I I wanted and obviously, you know, there there’s not enough time to cover everything. Um, but I wanted to to touch a few things cuz these are questions, believe it or not, that we get asked um, not just as instructors or coaches, but they’re also questions that you get asked. Uh, sometimes when you’re playing with a group that you’re not normally playing with, they may ask you, especially if they know you’re in the business, um, ask you certain questions, and these are things that that we want people to understand. Um, you know, just again, under rule 16, just talk, I’m just going to briefly mention a couple of others. Um, you’re obviously allowed to repair uh ball marks or or old uh hole plugs, but uh you cannot re repair marks made by spikes. Most people aren’t wearing spikes these days, but uh or shoes before playing. So, um there are certain things that you need to be aware of. Uh and again, obviously, if you’re just uh playing with your your your forsome uh weekend forsome and you’re not in a in a competitive uh tournament, uh you can obviously uh stretch the rules a little bit. Um, obviously as we just mentioned, you can’t test the surface of the green by rolling a ball or scraping its surface, but you can certainly test it with your feet by walking around and and checking up the slope. And and here’s one that that um, you know, a lot of people don’t um, believe it or not, they’ve seen it a number of times, uh, but there’s actually a rule to this, and that is if your ball overhangs the edge of the hole, uh, how long do you wait um, before to see if it drops in? Um, and the rule of thumb is 10 seconds. So, if you’re um if if it drops in, if it falls in after 10 seconds, uh then it’s uh you add one penalty stroke to your score. That’s correct. And and that happened Justin Thomas this year at the PGA Championship. He had that ball. It it was maybe four or five seconds uh and then it fell in. And that was a very pivotal that was almost like a burst of adrenaline. uh from then on he he uh played really well. I mean he played well anyway, but that it was almost like he was destined to win after that happened. Yeah. And you know this these are things that that a lot of people it’s surprising that they don’t understand and and again you know we certainly don’t expect everybody to memorize every single rule but obviously there’s some general ones that you do need to have as as Clint pointed out and uh mainly we want people to go out there and have fun. Uh guys did a great job as always. It was kind of an interesting kind of a light discussion. Didn’t not get into didn’t uh solve any problems there real quick about repairing your ball mark. Yes. I’m going to repair every ball mark I can that’s anywhere close to my ball or anywhere close between my ball and the hole because I can tell a lot about the grain of the green. I can tell a lot about the conditions of the surface by repairing a ballmark. That that’s a secret that this whole show is worth listening to right there. And you know what it does? It gives the golf course a better appearance. But I can repair ball mark and I can tell you which way the grain’s running. Yeah, you’re exactly right. And that’s a great not only a great tip, but it’s also a great thing to do to help out the golf course super. So, the more that’s the that’s the moral to the story. The more ball marks you can repair, the more you’re going to know. So, get out there and repair them all. All right, guys. Thank you very much uh for coming on the panel. Great discussion tonight. Clint, do you want to let the folks know how they can reach out to you and then John, I know you wanted to mention something uh uh in closing. So, I’ll do that and I know John’s got some extra things he wants to talk about and I’ll just sign off. Guys, you can always get me at clintg001yahoo.com. Uh that’s the easiest way to get a hold of me and I’ll be more than happy to return any kind of emails or discussions I get. And Ted and John, it’s been a wonderful evening. I’ll go ahead and sign off and let John uh uh get on with what he’d like to do. Perfect. Sounds good. Thank you as always, Clint. Thank you very much, uh Ted, for having me on the show. And Clint, as always, I learned a lot, uh tonight listening to you and uh really enjoy uh you know, partnering up with you. Um if if folks want to reach me, um my website is johndeckergolf.com and just I I spell my name jdeckergolf.com, but uh I was recently u u contacted by golf swing.com and it’s a company uh it’s an internet company that where you can go on and uh on the website and look at golf swings. There’s um there’s almost a thousand golf swings up there now. Um, and I’ve been sending up videos, uh, and they’re, uh, golf tips. I shouldn’t say golf swings, golf, uh, tips. And so I’ve been doing that and I, it’s really gotten great response from that. But it’s a golf swing.com. And if you go on there, uh, and just put in under the search John Decker. U I’ve, I’ve got, uh, I think 32 videos up there now. And, uh, that that number I’m putting two or three up a day. And they’re they’re in-depth, uh, three to four minutes. uh and they’re like on one particular subject. Um and it’s just a great way to go to the golf course, pull out your phone, watch a drill or watch a tip, and then work on it at the course. So, um I’m really excited about this u possibilities. Well, thank you, John, for sharing that. And that’s not only great for the listeners out there that maybe need some help with their game and a great website.com to go to, but also maybe uh some of our fellow teaching professionals and and golf professionals out there that uh maybe haven’t heard of this yet. Uh certainly go and check it out. You may have an opportunity to uh uh to take part in it as well. So uh John, as always, both you and Clint, thank you very much guys for for doing I think Clint’s already left, but uh he’s left the show. He’s probably wanting to go and see the re highlights of today’s President’s Cup, so I don’t blame him. But uh thanks John as always for for joining. I look forward to having you come back uh next time on the coach’s corner panel. Thanks Tad. I appreciate it. All right. Have a good one. All right. It was my very special guest on the coach’s corner panel tonight. John Decker and Clint Wright. Two great uh uh golf professionals. And uh I’m going to have another one here in just a second. But, uh, let me just remind everybody, of course, we are live every, uh, Thursday evening from 6:00 to 8:00 p.m. Central or 7 to 9, uh, p.m. Eastern Standard Time for those of you on the East Coast, uh, here on the Golf Talk Live, uh, blogtalkradio.com network. And easiest way to find us, go to blogtalkradio.com uh,golfftalk live or just type golfalk live up in the search key and that will take you to the main page. You can listen to the show in its entirety. Uh, or if you’re not able to listen uh, during the live broadcast, not to worry. Just go to blogtalkradio.com again, type in golf talk live and if you scroll down the page to the on demand section, all of the previously aired shows including tonight’s will be there uh after its completion. Uh you can listen to it there or you can go to if you prefer a different medium uh you can go to iTunes.com or stitcher.com and you can listen under those uh media platforms as well and just under podcast just type in uh golf talk live and you can listen to uh the show in its entirety. So, um, thank you for all of those that are tuning in live, but, uh, for those that can’t, uh, we, uh, have some ways for you to listen to the show, uh, later on. Um, my very special guest tonight, Andrew Breant is a teacher professional. He’s also a tour player. Uh, he’s been playing golf, uh, really since stepping up to the first te at uh, she shot at age five. Uh, he’s British born. Uh Andrew has walked some of the most prestigious fairways and greens in the world and has competed with uh competed, excuse me, with players such as Rory Mroy, uh Ross Fischer, and the 2015 Masters winner, uh Danny Willlet. Uh with years of golfing experience whilst playing professionally on tour, uh then moving into teaching and evaluating players of all abilities, Andrew has built himself a superior proven record uh for advancing golfers to their true golfing ability. And uh with the valuable experience and extended knowledge in the game, Andrew has been able to tailor his golfing instruction in a precise precise simple manner uh that can be implemented with individuals of all skill sets. Uh 25 years of golf has uh resulted in Andrew subscribing to the philosophy that great golf is only played uh well when keeping all aspects of the game simple. His fundamental approach to the golf has afforded him not only uh play and win competitively uh but love but the love of the game uh coupled with his patience and easygoing demeanor subsequently lent him uh to begin a highly coveted instructor. Uh without further ado, let me bring on my very special guest Andrew Bant. Good evening Andrew. Hi Ted. How you doing my friend? Very good, thank you. Very good. I I do want to mention as well uh that the folks can find you at 5 iron on Fifth Avenue. Tell them a little bit about that. That’s a new experience for you. So why don’t you share a little bit about that and then we’ll get into some discussion. Yeah, sure. Uh first of all, just want to say thank you so much for uh letting me be on the show. Uh it’s absolutely fantastic. Um but yeah, 5 Iron is a brand new facility where I teach out of out of New York City in Manhattan. Uh it’s actually on 19th uh street on Fifth Avenue. Um so yeah, it’s an indoor golf facility. Uh they have four indoor golf um simulators there. Uh so I’ve just literally started there literally from a few days ago. I was teaching at Golf Manhattan which is was on 39th Street and uh on 6th Avenue. Um but was lucky to keep keep a hold of my clientele and drag them a little bit further down downtown uh which is fantastic. Uh but I am uh I am based in in New York City and work you know a little bit mobile. I do playing lessons as well. So perfect. Well, let’s talk a little bit about uh your background. As I mentioned, you of course started at the ripe young age of 5 years old was uh probably the first time when you got up and and hit your first T-shot. Uh so obviously you started very early on. uh tell us a little bit about your your journey and of course as I mentioned you’re also a a touring professional as well and you played with some uh as I gave you a short list of some phenomenal players uh talk us a little bit about your journey uh from your first time on the T- box uh to out on tour. Yeah, sure. Um so I uh I started at five as you know um and my dad introduced me into the game at at that age and um and then from there you know uh gravitated to quite a good level in junior golf and you know was able to represent my country at the age of 14 and won a few large international tournaments as an amateur uh representing my country at 18 for the home internationals and from there um made the the hard decision to turn professional at age 19 and and to develop a career out of out of playing the great game. So you know from there I was playing on the development tours what they call or the third tier tours which would be Europro Tour which is over in Europe and it would be the Hooters Tour or the Gateway Tour or the Florida Tours over here. So um I played uh professional golf for between six seven years. Um I was lucky to have a private sponsor that um took me all the way on around the world. I also played in Asia as well on the Asian tour um which was fantastic. So uh yeah I’ve I’ve played since five. I struggled on tour. I enjoyed my amateur career and um and towards the age of 27 I took the hard decision of thinking about maybe I should make a career long term um out of teaching people you know using my knowledge using my experience and coming to the hard fact of maybe I can’t get to world class level but I can definitely give a springing platform to people that want to improve their games and people that are starting out beginning. Uh and also people that are trying to gravitate to the PGA or the web.com. Um you know, through my experiences, I found, you know, I know what I did right and I know what I did wrong. So living through that gives me the latitude to pass that on to people. Um so yeah. Well, and it gives you a different You’re right. gives you a different perspective um from traditionally somebody that’s maybe got right into coaching or teaching. Uh you’ve you’ve sort of done both. You’ve you’ve played as a competitor so you understand that sort of competitive feel. Um but then now you you’ve shifted over into the teaching side of things so you can share some of that knowledge. Let’s talk about some of the good and the bad and even some of the ugly. Um you know you mentioned out there on tour of course. Um, but first I want you to explain because for those of out there that maybe have never played to that that caliber, what was the most shocking thing to you uh Andrew when you got out on tour? What was the thing that really that you weren’t prepared for? Um, that kind of shocked you and said, “Whoa.” Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of players will always say that, you know, people that watch the game as well is it’s such an individual sport. And I think what really shocked me answering your question is it really is an indiv it isn’t an individual sport. It’s it’s actually a team sport. You know the when I went out onto tour at 19 and towards the age of 27 where I kind of walked away from professional golf on tour, you know, it did change quite a lot, but it always had a team aspect. So what I mean by that is it’s not only you just the player, it’s your coach, it’s your psychologist, it’s your physio, it’s your caddy, it’s team spirit around you that would travel um from tournament to tournament. And one of the things that I definitely teach some of my elite uh clients is that you don’t you can get to a specific level um individually, but you need help in other corners. you know, you need to be performing at your best fitness-wise. You need to be performing mentally. You need to be performing technically within your own swing. So, you know, you can you can get to a very very good standard individually, but to get to the worldass standard as it is now, um, you need that extra help. And I think that was the biggest eye openener for me is that I went to these tournaments on my own and I was in a hotel on my own. And even though I had a coach dedicated to me, you know, back back home miles away, um the guys that I was competing against had that every week there um at their exposure. And I think that was that’s probably one of the largest the largest things that I try to explain to some of my clients that I coach that are trying to grab a PJ tour card is that you can do all the hard work individually and dedicate all your time, but you need just a couple of people around you that are also sacrificing the same things that you are to hopefully get the same results as you are. Um, and what I mean by that is just having your a potential coach that can travel to you, you know, within two weeks and a psychologist that you can explain everything at the end of the round and, you know, a physio um that can maintain your body and your stability and your mobility. um you know all these extra parts which are very very crucial to the game just creeps you over that extra little edge where that separation between world class Jordan speed Mory Rory Maroy to your number one amateur um you know that’s that’s probably the biggest part now obviously um early on in your career when you were traveling around uh as you mentioned you had a a a very generous sponsor that was able to help you uh certainly with a lot of the expenses. Um but I’m sure there were moments um when you know I’ve interviewed I’ve had the pleasure of interviewing a number of uh great young ladies on the Symmetra tour which of course is a um a step up tour if you will to to the full LPJ uh card and you know a lot of them actually kind of buddy up if you will uh while traveling to obviously share some expenses and and obviously to have some of that camaraderie. Was that something that you were able to do? Did you have other younger uh players out on tour that that sort of you buddied up with and and you know sort of became your mates as you traveled around? Yeah, definitely. I think that’s that’s probably the the the first and the easiest step to to going on tour is to gravitate to a player that is, you know, similar mindset to you and, you know, where you can share some of the traveling costs and you can share your ups and downs and um, you know, really kind of like almost train each other going through the same experiences because, you know, when you’re traveling from tournament to tournament through a a year schedule, you know, you’re going to have your ups and downs and having just someone to even just speak to um makes a huge difference. And yeah, I when I was playing on the Hooters tour, which is now the Swing Thought Tour, um I buddied up with a guy from California. We were in a um a Winnebago. We’re traveling from tournament to tournament and that’s a huge help. Um you know, splits splits expenses, you know, traveling um you know, from state to state and entering these developing tours that aren’t heavily sponsored like the PGA, it does cost a lot of money. Um, so that’s always in the back back of your mind when you’re trying to compete and just allow yourself to play the game. In the back of your mind, you’re thinking, “This is costing, you know, $1,500 this week, so let me hopefully we can try and hold some putts, you know.” Um, so that that’s always a a good thing to try and buddy up with someone. Um, you just to share your experiences and bounce off each other. Um, yeah. Well, and it’s also too because it’s, you know, you can relate to one another. I mean, you know, he can can understand when you’ve had a bad round and and maybe he’s had a good round, uh, and vice versa. You you can kind of empath there’s a certain empathy that you share, uh, when you’re traveling around like that in in in a in a a closer circle. Um, yeah, you know, obviously I think a lot of people, you know, that that watch the touring professionals on TV, you know, we see them, um, you know, making a bad shot here and there, um, but we don’t always really know what’s going on inside their head. Tell us just a little bit, you know, obviously there’s some bad times out there. You’re going to hit some terrible shots. Obviously, the tour pros, uh, just through through time and through hard work, uh, certainly overcome them much better, uh, than many of our amateurs do. But even they still still have some struggles along the way. Were there moments when you were out there when you just, you know, looked at the sky and thought, “Man, what am I doing out here today? It’s just not it’s not happening.” And what did you do about it to to get the fires back? What did you do to get your your juice going back in? Yeah. I mean, I think that that actually happens pretty much every round when you’re in competition. You’re always going to have that moment of I can do so much better. Why did I do that? And as a professional that’s probably one of the first things that you you’re trying to stop is because you know negative thoughts come into your head. Um so you know with thinking thinking that way um you know only bad things are going to happen after that. So, um, looking looking to move forward, you know, when you when you’re in that in that zone of I’m thinking, you know, why why am I here? Am I am I any good? I think the biggest difference between the guys that have great successes and I, you know, I talk about, you know, guys that are on the PGA is that they’re learning every day. And yes, just having a mind having a mindset of, you know what, I’m actually going to learn from this individual shot. I’m going to learn from this individual round. I’m going to learn from this individual tournament and move that on to the next tournament. And I think within the amateur game and you know the top amateur game and beginners, the mindset is that shot and they don’t look ahead of thinking, you know what, I’m going to get better next year or I’m going to get better next week. where the difference within the PGA Tour is, you know, your Jordan Speed’s going to go through a period of change and a period where he’s not playing very well, but he’s looking and visualizing in the future. And I think that’s what really pushes you forward through these bad moments is, you know what, I’m going through a bad period here, but the goal is I’m actually going to win three majors in two years time. and how I get there is a journey, but I am going to go and get there. Um, so I try to tell my clients, you know, even if you’re going through a huge swing change, things could get worse and things could get a little bit better and then they can get worse again. But the overall goal is we’ve set a goal of next year you want to be off 15 and currently you’re off 25 right now. So if we’re in a position next year when you’re still 25, then we need to change some things and now you can be upset. But going through that process towards your your goal, let’s let’s keep positive. Let’s think, let’s learn from that. Let’s learn this week. Let’s learn from that lesson. Um, so the biggest difference really from your amateurs to your professionals is that they’re so excited to learn in good times and in bad times. Um, they don’t get get themselves down on themselves when they’ve had a bad shot. they don’t get themselves down on a bad round or a week or a tournament or even a month. They they evaluate it and they get more excited about the fact that okay, maybe I have to put some more work in to reach my goal. Um, and you know, you can relate that into anything with business even. You know, you’re going to go through a period of change where you’re trying to change a um a business to have more growth. Things generally go down before they go up. Um, and it’s the people that get more excited about their vision and not really focus on what’s happening in the in the now. Um, you know, that’s that’s really from what I see. Well, it’s like very similar to investing in a long-term stock. I mean, you know, you’re going to have ups and downs throughout the life of that stock, but if you’re panicking and and not adapting and adjusting, uh, then when it comes, you know, time down the road, you’re going to make, you know, rash decisions that are going to affect your your financial portfolio. So, it’s very much the same is it’s a long, you know, it’s a long-term investment, uh, you know, becoming a that level of a player. And, uh, you know, it’s not always the best ball strikers that are at the top. It’s those that I mean, you know, and I’ve often said this on the show, Andrew, you know, if you look at a player like Nicholas and you compare to even some of the tour players today, um you know, Nicholas certainly, I mean, there’s no question he he was a pretty decent ball striker, but he wasn’t one of the best on tour. But his mental um game and his mental toughness was so good that when he did hit a bad shot, he knew how to handle that situation. And, you know, I’m sure he had his moments where, you know, he would be disappointed in in his level of play, but he didn’t let that affect his entire round and he he knew what he needed to do in order to get the job done. And he made, you know, course adjustments if he needed to uh in order to to bring it back uh on track. And and and this brings me to the next question that I have for you is obviously there’s a lot of swing theories, there’s a lot of teaching methods out there. Um how does that play into your methodology when you’re working with your students? Um, you know, everybody’s different obviously out there. Um, some of us are tall, some of us are short, some of us are stocky and a little thinner and whatnot. Um, so we’re all differently built, number one, but we all respond to things differently. How do you incorporate that with so many different methods out there and and theories and so forth? How do you work with your players uh and find what works best for them? Yeah. Um, good question. It’s, you know, it’s what really gets me very excited because, you know, I think what a lot of u my clients say and what I hear from other professionals is that everyone wants more consistency, everyone wants more distance. And when you hear those two words every day, day in day out, it’s very easy to fall down the line of teaching the same way because you’re hearing the same things. Um, right? But what I try really hard about is, you know, realizing and reminding myself that everyone is different. And you’ve touched on this with, you know, Jan swing versus tiger swing versus Jordan speed swing is there’s no right way to get a golf ball around the around the course. The only right way is your way. I look at a client and the first I can go to see a client for the first time, you know, my first five, even 15 minutes sometimes is why you here, you know, um it’s exactly the same as going to a doctor’s appointment, you know, why are you here? Um you know, and some people will say I especially teaching in the city of Manhattan as well is, you know, my my business manager took me uh entered me into a charity golf tournament. need to play in next two weeks. I need to kind of get it off the tea. Now, that that client’s going to go down a a slightly different path to someone that comes to me and says, “You know what? I play off six and I want to be on the PGA tour. It’s going to be a longterm planning scheduled. It’s not a good going to be a quick fix.” Um, so, uh, with that, you know, I have to t I have to tailor my teaching methods slightly differently. Um on top of that also as well that you mentioned you know some people have restrictions some people have mobility restrictions or strength or you know some are tall thin. Um so I always try to teach um my clients um on the simple fact and I mentioned that you know in my bio that I sent you um that you mentioned at the start of the show is that golf plays well when played simple. And I I truly believe that most golfers have well almost all golfers have a natural golf swing. And I try to not change that natural ability of swinging that golf club. The only things that I try to change are the fundamentals and the most important part through impact, you know, and not try and change the natural swing, you know. Um, so if someone’s swinging completely on the outside line and a horrible swing plane, but their impact position is quite solid, well, I actually wouldn’t change that too much. The only things I would actually change is the alignment and maybe look into course management and maybe look into their short game. Um, you know, Jim Furick’s a great is a great example of that, right? you know, so and also with with teaching as well, you know, you can get 10 professionals in one room and everyone’s going to have a slight different theory. Um, so, you know, you you can you can you can teach on a on a platform of, you know, this is the right way, but everyone else is, you know, everyone that you’re teaching is completely different. So, I always like to lean on the side of let me see how you swing naturally without you thinking about anything and let me tailor your fundamentals and the most important parts. Um, but just try to allow you to swing naturally with what you’re trying to do. Um, you know, I I I do see sometimes, you know, players trying to swing like Nick Fo and Tiger Woods, you know, and they just don’t have the physical capabilities of doing so. So, you know, knowing my clients strengths and weaknesses, you know, okay, you can’t do a 90° shoulder turn. So, let’s not try to achieve a 90 degree shoulder turn. let’s achieve a 70° shot a turn and let’s purify your short game instead. Um, you know, and that will then bring you to at a better of ability instead of trying to struggle on the same thing of let’s get a perfect golf swing. Let’s look let’s focus on so many more other areas of your golf game that can get you into a better standard. Would you agree and well said would you agree Andrew that one of the the downsides or the pitfalls of of the modern-day teaching is uh maybe not so much today but for for a long time is that they were focused on that sort of pitcher perfect swing and and let me just clarify it when you look back as you just point out when you look back to players like Jim Furick uh even Jack Nicholas you know Lee Trovino you know, some of the older players um and you compare them to to some of the younger players and newer players today, their swings look modestly different. However, there are certain key areas of the golf swing uh obviously such as impact um that sort of remain true. Um, do you think too much emphasis is made from the teaching side, but also from the student side on trying to perfect the golf swing and not working with what you have and perfecting that? Yeah, I I completely agree. I mean, I think it’s it’s overused word of the impact position is is key and it is very key. It needs to be powerful. It needs to be consistent where the club face is staying on target for the longest period of time. how you get to that position really doesn’t really matter. Um, but from what you’ve just said there, yes, let’s let’s not try and have this perfect goal swing, you know, and I always use the line of um Nick Fo. Nick Fo is per, you know, Justin Rose as well have wonderful goal swings, but you know, if you evaluate their body and their mobility, they have that capability of doing so. So you look at a guy like John John Ram right now who is extremely good, extremely consistent. It’s actually not that pitcher perfect of a golf swing. It’s just he moves his main body very very well. Um he doesn’t create a huge turn on the way through but the way down through impact his body is in that perfect position of you know you look at Ben Hogan you look at Jack Nicholas you can almost you know see exactly the same things. Um so it’s it’s yeah there’s a lot of emphasis of trying to get your pitch a perfect goal swing but that’s not what is written on the scorecard. It’s the score that the end of the day, you know, and you look at Stevie Valeros, he was all over the all over the golf course, but at the end of the day, the ball went in the hole a lot sooner than everybody else. result. Um, you know, I think there’s a lot of emphasis on the look of the goal swing and there’s not enough emphasis amateur wise, there’s not enough emphasis um emphasis on how you get the ball in the hole and what are you actually trying to do to get that ball in the hole a little bit quicker. Um, you know, if you hit the ball left to right 40 yards, then okay, I can help you manage that. I can’t help you hit that perfect draw that everyone wants to do, but I can definitely help you get that ball in the hole a lot easier with a lot less effort as well by managing your short game, managing your uh course management and opening your eyes to I’m not going to hit the ball right to left. I’m always going to hit the ball left to right with this huge fade. Um, so yeah, using what you have is probably I would say Jordan Spie’s biggest attribute and the reason why he’s number one in the world. Um, you know, Jordan Spe is probably the most boringly consistent golfer out there right now. He probably hits the most golf shots where they’re not fantastic. They’re just what I call to my students, I call it that’s a good bad shot. It’s it’s a kind of a bad shot, but you got away with it. The more of those golf shots you hit, the better you’re consistently going to be. And opposed to, you know, your Tiger Woods. Um, he hit a lot more better golf shots than Jordan Speifer has done, but his good bad shots were 10 times worse. And I think with, you know, Jordan Spie’s career as well, um, you’re going to see that over the years, and you’re going to see that with guys coming up behind him, is that the good bad shot is the most important. It’s not how spectacular you hit your golf shot, it’s how good your good bad shot is. Um, and I try to tell that to my clients is, okay, that wasn’t great. That wasn’t out in the middle of the club, but where did it land? Did that land safe or did that land in out of bounds? You know, if it landed safe, we can work with that, but we can’t work with out of bounds. So, yeah, using what you have is probably the the the uh backbone of why I of one of my methodologies for sure. Yeah. And and you’re exactly right, Andrew. You know, I’ve often said, you know, I do a lot of stuff with corporate types, um, is where I really focus a lot of my teaching and that. And, you know, I get the same as you is, you know, they’ll come up while I’m playing in, you know, our corporate event in a few weeks and, you know, they want some magic elixir to to suddenly improve their game. And, you know, you don’t want to be making drastic changes um, at that point. So, you want to focus on areas that, you know, is going to help them um, achieve better results. And I think one of the mistakes that a lot of um you know a lot of teaching uh professionals have made over time is trying to reinvent the wheel. And I think they’re starting to understand now um with our new and more better understanding as as we you know CC more uh golfers. But I think earlier on I think there was a a a momentum if you will in trying to create the perfect uh golf swing. and a lot of students um that weren’t able to measure up to that uh level ex of expertise became very frustrated and and dropped off and I think this is part of the reason there are other factors as well but I think one of the reasons it became too complicated and too difficult to emulate um you know as you pointed out earlier you know a player might see Nick Fo and say hey I’d like to you know play like Nick Faldo and of course you know the the instructor is more than happy to oblige but that wasn’t always the best thing for that particular student Um. Mhm. Mhm. I know. I I know you’ve got some great stories. You’ve Sorry. Go ahead. I was just going to touch on that base. there is that I think the the major um changes over probably 10 15 years is the um the science and the technology behind biomechanical um imagery and 3D imagery that we can use through coaching and understanding how the actual body works um you know and using that as a platform of that’s what you have and let let’s use that instead of trying to create this perfect golf swing you let’s see how your body moves in a golf swing naturally and work around that. Um I think that’s probably the biggest thing that I’ve seen over the last 10 years. Um yeah. Yeah. And you’re exactly right and I think this is why you know you see so many of the top players um you know really sort of focusing on the the biomechanics of their swing and trying to understand how their body is moving uh as opposed to uh as you said you know you compare a player like a Jordan speed and maybe a Jim Furick they’re they’re two entirely different uh both phenomenal players um but their approaches are entirely different and their um you know swing mechanics are different from one another and Jim uses what works for him and Jordan uses what works for for him and u I think you actually um one of your last shows with um uh Brett Cohen uh with the fitness group um you were talking about mobility and stability you’ve got to work with what that client actually has you know um you know you could look at John Daly who you would you would fast is not very fit, but he actually mobility and stability wise is very very fit. Um, you know, so using using a part of that that part of the game, you know, fitness is is a huge part of it. You know, speaking of John Dailyaly and and I’ve sh excuse me, I’ve shared this on the show um in the past, but I’ll I’ll just give you a quick I’ll give you the short version. Um, years ago when I was still back up in in Canada, of course, as you may or may not know, I’m I’m Canadian uh born originally, but um I used to attend the the Canadian Open quite frequently and one of the years that John Daly was there very early on in his career, he’d already won the uh the PGA Championship at that point. Um but uh he was up there and still, you know, a pretty hot player. And there was a an end of the the practice area where there was a little putting green there. And you know, a lot of the players, of course, were were uh hitting their irons and drivers out in the thing. And and he was standing on the very end of the driving tee of the practice tee. And the green was probably about three or four yards from where he was standing. And he took out, of course, his his 60 degree and in true John Dailyaly style. I mean, literally did a 360 around his body and lobbed these things, you know, eight eight or or nine feet in the air and just sort of gingerely landed them, you know, on the putting surface and, you know, sort of nuzzling up to the to the to the holes. And it was just amazing to watch, you know, here’s, as you said, a guy that you would look at, don’t think he’s very fit. the incredible mobility that he had with his body and and yet the the softness and the and the gentleness of of him swinging the golf club to be able to execute a shot like that cuz you’d think, you know, in fact, I remember a couple of people that I was with at the time said to me, gosh, I hope he doesn’t blade that shot cuz he’s going to take somebody out in the in the spectator on the other side. But, you know, not not the case. But, you know, and that’s a rarity. Not every player can do that. Even on the PJ tour, there’s a lot of players that can’t. Uh Phil Mickelson comes to mind as well. Had some incredible shots in the bag and and so that plays into it as well. Um Andrew, why don’t you share some stories? Uh I’m sure you’ve got a lot that uh and and memories u that you’ve got from from your playing on tour and and anywhere else that you want to share um with the audience. I know they’d love to hear them. Uh yeah, sure. Um yeah, I mean I was uh playing on tour for several years, you know, traveling from Asia and in Europe as well and I came over to America to play on the Hudas tour um in 2006 and seven and eight. Um so yeah, I mean I think of some of the stories that come to mind um good and bad really. um you know some of the some of the good stories is the camaraderie through going to these tournaments and seeing the same faces week in week out was great and uh built up a huge amount of great friendships along the way. Um and I think what makes it so great is that um you know everyone has a certain agenda of graduating to you know their desired goals whether it would be the web.com whether it would be you know PGA or the European tour over in Europe but um everyone seemed to get together in the evenings and you know you work so very hard on the on the range and you work so hard during the winters and in the tournament that you know at the end of the day you know you need to have some downtime. Um so I think uh you know the general public and the the um amate amateur golfers see it as you know very dedicated um time on board. But during the during the evenings, you know, things do certainly liven up. And uh I think one of the the greatest stories that I was involved in is uh I was at a tournament uh over in Europe. Um and uh it was just before sunset and I was kind of playing soccer, what we call over here, what we would call football. And we were just playing football down the beach. And uh there was 18 18 guys uh that joined in, you know, finished their rounds and some played well, some played bad. And we just thought, you know what, we’ll just go and play football down at the beach. Um so this guy called Ryan that was a good friend of mine said, “Oh, well, if anyone uh fancies going skinny dipping, I’ll put 20 pound to whoever goes skinny dipping.” So, me being my bubbly, confident self, uh that actually shot 67 um that day, I was like, “Yes, yes, why not? I’ll uh I’ll go and do that.” And the other remaining 17 guys uh said, “Yeah, I’ll put 20. I’ll put 20.” So, there was a lot of money up for grabs. So, I ended up taking my clothes off and walking into uh walking into the sea and I had to get to shoulder height um and had to turn around when I was at shoulder height. Well, the moment I turned around where I left my clothes, they weren’t there. Uh, all all I see is these 17 golfers running down the beach towards back to the hotel where we were staying. Um, and me covering what you can imagine is running all the way down the beach completely naked. Um, needless to say, they actually ended up going into the hotel with my clothes. Um, and I had to actually go into the reception at desk where there was a lovely young lady where I said, “Yes, I do need a towel. Sorry about this.” So, that was that was probably the uh one of the the good story. Well, one of the bad stories on my part was some of the good stories uh from from my friends on tour. But, uh, yeah, there was, uh, there’s certainly some good laughs, uh, out on tour and, uh, I think you can, you know, it’s it’s interesting because, you know, I think, uh, because of the game is such a a gentleman sport, I think the PGA and the European Tour does a lot of work in regards to making sure that some of these funny stories, good stories, and sometimes bad stories are hidden. And uh you know it’s it’s I think that’s what makes the game so great because you don’t really hear too many neg negative things about the great professionals on tour. Um but all I can say is that they definitely definitely do have fun. I Yeah, I I have no doubt and and you know you’re exactly right and I think Andrew, one of the things uh and I do agree with with the the PGA and and uh and other uh governing bodies. I understand why they have to do what they they have to do. And and I think I think the the truth of it is I think when you’re on the golf course, that’s when you know, it’s like going to a job. You know, when you’re in the office, you know, you you need to be at your best and and put your best foot forward. But you know what? I think it also shows that we’re all human and we all love to have a a good laugh and and uh you know, a little kibbitzing, if you will, back and forth with our with our mates. And um you know obviously it was was this embarrassment. But let me ask you something um in in light of uh of your um your your moment there. Uh were you able to collect on the money? That’s the real question. Yeah, I did. I I did actually collect on the money. It’s funny that you reminded me because the uh the next day um I actually went out and shot the course record which is why one of the that’s one of the stories that I do remember is I actually shot a course record and all these people and even my friends and family always say that you should really go skinny dipping every time you play a tournament because you play your best. I was I was just going to say that that might have to be a little bit of a mantra for you uh you know every tournament is just to get out there and and uh and and show your wares if you will. Um great great story Andrew. Thank you for sharing that. Um you know obviously you know there I’m sure you have a ton of stories Nat if you if you’ve got a moment or two and you want to share another one. Um we’ll we’ll set aside the skinny dipping for a moment, but um you know maybe another story that you had where maybe an example is there a story that you could share with the folks of where you’ve had to sort of step in and and maybe mentor a new player coming out. Uh you’ve been on tour for a little while and a new player comes out. Maybe you could share a story where you you’ve had to sort of take that person under your wing, so to speak. Yeah, sure. Um I uh well I mean when I was out on tour um you always see you know year on year some a handful of other young young guys coming through and I think um you know I was always a guy that did my homework and always knew that um who these people are you know and they had such a great amateur career and you know the the change from going to amateur to professional is such a an interesting change where some people can adapt to it very quickly and some people just really struggle with it. And uh I think the the the biggest part of that is really adapting from a small pond into a big pond very quickly. So yeah, I took a couple of guys kind of under my wing towards the end of my touring professional career and you tried to mentor them in regards to, you know, you’re not playing for a check. You’re playing the great game that you love and what you’re trying to do. So just play the game. Don’t treat it like a job. Um treat it as a junior tournament. Um, and why not go for that flag stick when it the time is right and not think about trying to be so professional? Um, I think the professional word on tour is well overused on the golf course for these guys because, you know, you’re named as an amateur golfer, you know, and you win the, you know, the world amateur title and you win the US amateur and all of a sudden you turn pro and now you’re being called professional. And I think the biggest um change there is being called from an amateur to a professional. Instinctly you change your mindset and that mindset changes the way you play. Um and I think you know mentoring these young guys that I was trying to help is you still have amateurs. Just play like an amateur. It’s just you just have to be professional about it. And uh you know it’s um it’s a very unique um time where you change from amateur professional. You know I could probably talk about it for about two hours but I think the biggest part of it is just just just play the game. Just play the game of what you know. Um and don’t keep thinking about being professional and don’t keep thinking about you have to do the same as what everyone else is doing because now you’re a professional. Um, you know, it’s one of the guys that I’ve kind of taken under my wing. Um, Wesley, his name is, um, he’s from Jamaica and has all the natural talent in the world and I’ve probably played with him probably about seven times. And I don’t think he’s ever shot any worse than 67 when I’ve played with him. Um, and won a lot of amateur tournaments over in Jamaica. And he’s won, I believe, four or five swingth tournaments. and he’s only played in seven. And uh that was over a duration of about four years because he’s struggling financially. But I said, “The great thing with you is you play like a junior, you know, you don’t play like a professional, you play like a junior, you know, and I ask him the questions of, you know, what are you trying to think about over this 25 foot putt?” And, you know, you could probably even tell the same question to PGA guys and they’re thinking, you know, I want to keep it on the high side. I don’t want to three putt, but give it a chance. You know, this guy is just thinking, I want to hold it. Why? You know, I’m just visualizing the ball going into the hole. And I think that’s where you really find your greatest part of your optimal ability is just allow it to happen. If it doesn’t happen, okay, you make a mistake. Let’s move on. But, you know, you always play your optimum golf when you play simple, your mindset is simple, and your technique is simple. And when you analyze that, that generally happens in your golfing career at a young age because you’re not thinking about, you know, if if it doesn’t happen, what position am I in? You know, there is a time and place in your professional career to think like that, but your first, second, third round, not necessarily. You know, um, so yeah. Yeah. I think you’re you’re exactly right, Andrew. think, you know, as golfers mature and and uh you know, whether it be on the PGA or the the web.com or or any of the other tours, I think as they mature and become more seasoned, uh some tend to gravitate to a more conservative play. Um obviously some based on experience, but just obviously, uh you know, their nerves are are not as good. Um and you know, other things happen, I’m sure, as time goes on. But um you know I I think you’re right. I think this is why you see so many of the young new players that come out uh you know just sort of swing for the fences because they they know that this is sort of the the beginning of their career. They want to get out there. They’re hungry for it. And I think often when you see players that have been on tour for a long long time, there just doesn’t seem to be that fire. And that was something that, you know, people criticized Tiger for here, uh, you know, a few years ago is that they just didn’t see that fire in his eyes anymore. And, you know, when you’ve done what he’s done in in the time that he has and forgetting all the personal stuff aside, um, you know, it’s very hard. He’s not hungry for it as much anymore, I don’t think, in my opinion. And I think that that’s something that happens to a lot of and that’s when it’s time in my opinion, I think, to say, you know what, I’ve had a great career. it’s time to move on to something else because otherwise you just you get to a point where you don’t enjoy it anymore. And I’m only guessing, but I think that that’s going to be a question that he’s going to if he hasn’t already is going to be asking himself is, you know, is it time to move on? But um what was the what was the the best part of your Yeah. What was the best part of your game, Andrew? And and what was what area did you struggle most with? Uh I think the best part of my game was driving. Uh, ironically, um, I was always a quite of a a long distance driver and but very accurate. And, um, I think the weakest part of my game was probably short game. Um, and looking back now as as a teaching professional, I know exactly why. Because I started the game from the tea down to the green. I didn’t start the game from the green back to the tea. Um, so yeah, it was, you know, I always struggled. I wouldn’t say struggled, but it wasn’t my my uh strongest attribute within my game was the short game. My strongest attribute was the driving. So, um, I don’t think it’s the time spent on that particular area. It was just mindset of how I treated it. Um, you know, when I was, you know, a tender age, you know, starting out and going through junior golf all the way up until turning pro, I didn’t understand how important the short game was. Um, I just saw it as a short shot. Um, you know, and I saw a drive very important because I saw it go 300 yards down the middle of the fairway. So I I class that as a much more impressive but important golf shot opposed to a a very simple pitch onto the green from 40 yards tucked into 5 foot. Um you know Yeah. And and I think that’s for a lot of our amateur golfers too. I think this is one of the reasons. I mean, let let’s be honest, you know, it’s it’s exciting being out on the on the tea and and, you know, cranking out a 300 plus yard drive uh than it is hitting, you know, uh, as you say, 40 yard pitch shots, uh, you know, all day long. Nobody, you know, really wants to do that. But in hindsight, as you say, when you come off the tour now and you look back over your career, those are areas that obviously would have served you better uh out on tour had you been more diligent maybe in those area. And obviously, I know you practiced all of your game, but I think, you know, there’s a certain mentality in in the general golfing public that if I just get out there and hit the ball straighter and I hit it further down the fairway, I’m going to score better. And that’s really not the case. It’s really the other way around. Um certainly the I mean, you have to have a certain skill level, right? Yeah. I mean, when I evaluate my my best rounds, um my course record when I went skinny dipping the day before, um I actually I actually didn’t hit the golf all that great. Um but what I did do was be very very tidy around the green and the short game within, you know, 60 70 yards. you know, I I got up and down and I hold that 10-ft putt and I hold a lot of consistent seven foot putts during the during the tournament, but you know, scoring course records and shooting 63s and 65s didn’t come from hitting that perfect draw with a driver. It came from somehow putting that hole, putting that ball, sorry, putting that ball into the hole from 70 yards. And uh you know knowing that a little bit earlier on in my career could have changed you know some outcomes. But uh you know I try to say that to a lot of beginners and a lot of my junior elite guys that I teach. Um you know just practice the short game. Don’t be too um heavily involved with hitting these perfect iron shots because with age of fitness and with technique of the amount of time you’re going to practice that will come. But will what won’t come is your ability of understanding how you can control your short game because that part will never will never disappear. You’ll you’ll continually learn about how you can get that ball into the hole in various various conditions within that yardage. Um you know and you know spoke about his name a lot but Jordan Spie does that so well. You know he he hits not that many fairways. He doesn’t he doesn’t hit that many great iron shots, but from 40 yards and in and from 100 yards and in, he’s probably one of the best, you know. Um, and he doesn’t do it ele eloquently, but he does it in his own natural way. Um, yeah. Yeah. And, you know, it reminds me of Tiger as well, you know, earlier on in Tiger’s career, you know, when he really started to to rack the tournaments up. I mean, you know, Tiger a lot of times was all over the golf course with his T-shot, but he had an ability to be able to recover so well. I remember um memory serves correct, I think it was at one of the Buick Opens, one of the first ones he played in. And I remember hitting he hit an Aaron T-shot into the right rough and uh cut that, you know, incredible sixiron out of the rough and and you know, landed it relatively close to the hole on the green and people were amazed at that. But that’s an area of his game that he worked hard on. You know, it wasn’t just driving the ball off the tea. He worked on on recovering and and his second shots and his third shots and so on and so forth. Um he had an incredible short game, so he was able to recover well. And Nicholas was very similar. I mean, Nicholas certainly, you know, drove the ball fairly straight, but you know, Nicholas was able to scramble under pressure uh when when it needed to. And and that’s essentially what Jordan is doing as well. you know, he certainly hits a great uh drive here and there, but it’s not perfect every time. So, it’s your ability to be able to to hit those recovery shots uh and and shots when you need it that’s going to help you score. Um Andrew, I hate I hate to say this, but we’re actually out of time. I can’t believe this hour went so quick, but I want to give you an opportunity to Yeah, I can’t uh I can’t believe it’s over already. And I enjoyed the conversation. I I could go another couple of hours, but unfortunately, we can’t. Um, but I’m going to have you first off and foremost, I’m going to have you come back again if you’d like. Uh, and we’ll we’ll continue with some other uh dialogue. But, uh, in the meantime, let the folks know how they can reach out to you if they’re interested and maybe uh, if they’re going to be up in the New York area or or planning a a trip up there and maybe want to come and see you or maybe if they live in the New York area uh, and they want to work with you, how how can they reach out to you? Yeah, sure. So, uh, I am actually located at Five Iron. Uh so if you can Google uh five iron golf into the Google search, you’ll see the facility there. It’s an indoor golf facility on 19th uh street and fifth a um you alternatively you can always text or call me uh 9147053844. Um and you can also email me at andrew bravantgmail.com as well. Um I’ll be looking forward to help you game. Perfect. Well, Andrew, again, it’s been a pleasure and uh I want to thank not only you for coming on the show, but I want to thank my good friend Brett Cohen for actually introducing us and uh uh sharing his thoughts that you’d make for a great guest, and he certainly uh uh didn’t steer me wrong, that’s for sure. You’ve been a a wonderful guest. I appreciate you coming on the show very much, and I’m extending a personal invitation for you to come back on a future show and we’ll we’ll work out the details. I’ve got a few things that I think um I’ I’d love to do and we’ll talk about that at a later date. But uh Andrew, thank you very much and much continued success and uh I don’t know, are we going to see you maybe uh out in the Champions Tour at some point? Uh I it’s definitely something in the back of my head for sure. Well, I think once the competitive Yeah, I think once the competitive juices take hold, it’s pretty hard to to walk away from that part of the game all together. Walk away from it. Sure. Yeah. But, uh, you you’ve done well, my friend, and, uh, I appreciate you coming on the show and sharing, uh, with my audience, uh, some of your stories, even some that were a little embarrassing perhaps, but, uh, nonetheless, and and we’ll, uh, look forward to having you come back again. So, Andrew, thank you uh, very much for doing that. Thank you. Thank you, Ted. And also, I’d just like to say thank you to Brett Cohen that actually introduced me to you as well that I work very closely with in New York uh, the New York uh, fitness guru, Brett Cohen. Well, maybe we’ll get you on maybe we’ll get you on a couple of the coach’s corner uh segments next year, which is our panel discussion which preceded our interview tonight. So, we’ll talk about that as well. I think you’d have a lot of fun with that uh coming on. We’ll we’ll talk about that as well. But Andrew, again, God bless my friend. Thank you for joining me tonight on Golf Talk Live and and we’ll talk soon. Thank you, Ted. All right. Byebye. All right. That was my uh very special guest tonight. uh Andrew Breant uh a great teacher professional up at 5iron uh on Fifth Avenue in New York and uh if you go to 5irongolf.com as he suggested you’ll be able to see uh the great facility there. So if you’re planning a trip or maybe you’re up in the New York area and you want to work with uh Andrew by all means certainly reach out to him there. All of his contact information is available. Uh again, I want to thank uh very special thanks to John Decker and Clint Wright again uh on the coaches corner panel uh for joining me earlier this evening. Uh great discussion, guys. Thank you always for for all that you do and and helping uh make this show successful. Uh but most importantly, I want to thank uh all of the listeners worldwide for faithfully tuning in uh each and every week to Golf Talk Live. And I I can’t emphasize enough, I get a great amount of pleasure and enjoyment of having a number of highly talented coach, teaching professionals, authors, entrepreneurs, and even players stop by. Uh, and it’s really through their uh, participation and guest appearances that have helped to make Golf Talk Live a first class show. Uh, special thanks to some of the sponsor, supporters of the show, Mr. Jonathan Leair from South Coastgolf Guide. Go to south coastgolfguide.com and uh, check out a great uh, publication here in the southeastern part of the United States. If you’re planning on a trip coming down here to parts of Florida or Alabama, Mississippi, and all parts in between and even over to Texas, um there are some great golf courses listed in the guide. So, go to south coastgolfguide.com and check it out. And if you’re interested, uh if you’re planning on a trip and you’re already down here, if you visit uh your Edwin local Edwin Watts and uh and some of the uh main courses in the areas in various states, uh you can actually pick up a copy of the guide. But if you’re not sure where to find it, go to south cocoastgolfguide.com and you can reach out to Jonathan and he’ll make sure that you get a copy sent to you uh whether you’re here or you’re planning on coming down here and you want to get the heads up on what some of the great golf tracks down here in the southeastern part of the United States. So uh go to south coastgolfguide.com and also to a special friend Meredith Kirk of Meredith Kirk Golf out in the Myrtle Beach area. Uh great LPJ teacher professional and just an all-around fantastic young lady. Uh, go to methkirk.com is her website. Uh, thanks Meredith for all of your continued support. Nikki and Tiffany Litherland, thank you for your uh, help in spreading the word. Nikki, of course, and his lovely wife, Tiffany. Nikki is a a golf professional uh, himself and uh, would um, always appreciate their continued help and support and spreading the word. Uh, Mr. Bernie Pender from Anticholf at ongolf.com is his website. Uh, great custom line of putters. Uh, go to ongolf.com. Thank you Bernie for all your continued support. And uh Mr. Sean Kelly, owner of linkedgolfers.com, a great social media platform. Uh linkeders, of course, was a largest group uh linked.com, which is again another social media platform. And Sean brought uh that platform out to his own site and uh lots of great golf information there and and great stories and great tips and information. So go to linkedgolfers.com. And last but not least, uh Mr. Peter Doyle from Doygolf Solutions over in Ireland. Thank you, Peter, for all of your continued support. a great uh coach and teacher professional uh that uh has been a big supporter of the show over the years. So, thank you uh for all of your well wishes as well. Um and on that note, uh enjoy the President’s Cup everybody this week and I will be back next week with a very interesting guest and of course another round of Coach’s Corner here on Golf Talk Live on the blogtalkradio.com network. So, thanks everybody. God bless. Have a great weekend and I’ll see you next week right here on Golf Talk Live.