Episode 96: College Part 1 (Education)

Episode 96: College Part 1 (Education)

Hey everyone, this is Daniel and I’m June and we are Korean American. No hesitation that time. My brain is back. Oh, what was the thing about the last time intro? Like this is Daniel or Daniel? What was it this time? Hi everyone. This is Daniel. Oh, it’s this is Daniel and I’m June. Yeah. Anyway, morning. How was your weekend, June? I went on a very short trip to Taiwan. Yes. Yeah. I actually didn’t. It was like fourth or fifth time to Taiwan, actually. Okay. It was like a very spontaneous trip. Mhm. Two two days and three days and two nights. Mhm. The whole time it was like the weather was horrible. It’s like drizzling and then it was like the worst part was like the the weather in Korea was perfect. while we’re there. I was going to say it was so nice the last few days. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anyways, the weather was horrible. So, I did like a half forest hungu. Okay. Which is kind of nice. Forest hans. It’s like there’s nothing to do outside almost. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s like I don’t want to go to the shopping malls and cuz it looks the same as Oh, you’re saying because it was raining, you basically stayed in the hotel a lot more than you would have. Yeah. Yeah. And then like the friends that I went with are not really interested in going to like museums or like stuff like that that I would usually do. So I just stayed in the hotel which like is a very good occasion to be forced to do that cuz I almost never do that. That’s true. I mean it’s nice. Yeah. I like forced myself to go into this the pool but it was like raining and it was like cold so like it was outdoor pool. Yeah. So, I was like, “Oh, yeah. It was just like the three of us. No one else is going to go to the pool.” And like the guy who was supposed to be supervising the the pool was like, “What’s going on?” Like, “What are these people swimming when it’s raining?” And then I went to like the spa, which I never do. Actually, I rarely go to hotels if I travel. I usually just go to like Airbnbs or more budget accommodations. I think it’s like a cultural difference. Some people like to go to hotels. Mhm. So, I like didn’t know a lot of things that people usually do at hotels. Okay. I was like, “Oh, it’s going to rain.” Cuz like we were going to like go eat something outside. So, and I didn’t bring my umbrella. So, like I was like, “What are I going to do? Maybe I should buy someone something at the convenience store. It looks like you know what to do with hotels. They’ll give you an umbrella.” Yeah. I was like, “Oh, this is amazing.” And then like there’s a spa. Yeah. The thing about spas is that this it’s another like like moment for me. Okay. So, I rarely go to hotel spas either. Yeah. And when they said spa, I was imagining something that would not be like a public bathroom, more like a massage treatment place in my mind cuz like I think that’s accurate. Is it? Yeah. But it was more like a chimang, right? It was more like a chim. Yeah. Mhm. And I don’t know for some reason. Yeah. I think that’s an Asia thing. Oh, is it? Yeah, if you think spa in the US, it’s like spa treatment. You get massages, facials, things like that. But spa in Asia, I think, generally means kind of like a chimchang type place. I see. Yeah. Oh, I saw one very interesting cultural thing. What was that? So, the spa So, the way way in which the spa works is that you go to you go to the gym and ask for a spa key and so they’re right next to each other. It’s almost as if like you go to the gym and then you do a spa, right? Mhm. Everyone at the gym are white people working out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then everyone at the spa are Asian people. Isn’t that crazy? That’s funny. Yeah. Not surprising. Not single one Asian people at the gym and then not single one white person at the spa. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was interesting. I don’t know why it is. Americans, I think, are just obsessed with health. And in Korea, you’d call it a health jang. Oh, jang. Yeah. Yeah. health fitness center. Whatever. There’s a word for that. That word there there’s a word for that kind of person. Oh, who’s obsessed with working out? It’s like a meme. Oh, yeah. What did you say? It’s not a good word. So, I’m not going to dissect it, but Okay. Okay. But then also, I think even more so, the the idea of public baths or public nudity or whatever for Americans is very also uncomfortable and awkward. So, it’s like a double whammy. Yeah. So all the people who are at the spa didn’t even have to sweat. They’re going to the spa and then all the people who are at the gym are sweating but they’re just going back to their rooms to shower. No June though the health benefits of spas or you know saunas in general. Yeah. Very well documented. It’s very good for your health. Oh is it? Almost as good as exercise. Really? Okay. So both of them were having exercises. Well my my ideal would be to do both. Yeah. workout, get sweaty, and then compressing the sound. Yeah. I was like, you were the exception. You were the exception. Yeah. I went to the gym because there’s like no other thing to do. Yeah. You were perfectly bicultural. But I felt so cho like I cuz I like I don’t know all these like hotel cultures. Oh yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Whereas I felt like everyone else did. That’s so interesting you cuz you must travel to be fair. most of my exposure to hotels and any like expensive traveling, right? Upgraded tickets on flights or whatever, it’s always through work. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So, is that not a big culture for Korean companies to have to travel for work and you know, you get a nice flight, you get a nice hotel, you get a meal stipen. Yeah. Even though I went to hotels when I was traveling, I didn’t have the luxury of Yeah. No one Yeah. No one accommodate No one goes to like a fivestar hotel for work. at least for my work, my past work. And then even if I do, there’s no time to to enjoy all the amenities cuz you want to explore the city or you’re there for work. And so cuz I’m there for work. Yeah. And they’re overworking me. That’s a different culture. I think I hate business travels for that reason. Oh, interesting. Cuz it makes me it makes you feel more miserable cuz you’re at like some other city, you know? This just came up yesterday in like casual conversation with my more Korean friends. Yeah. They were like, “Yeah, when I travel for work, they just work you like crazy. Every minute of your schedule is packed.” Exactly. That’s so different from American travel culture. Oh my god. And then, so, okay, the last time Yeah. I went on a business trip was with my like fairly new company and they’re part of like a bigger like traditional conglomerate, right? Yeah. Which was like kind of like my first time. And they have a very also very different culture. Yeah. as they land together, they went on a golf rounding. Wait, that’s not a different culture. That’s classic Korean. That’s classic. I’ve never been to a cuz I’ve mostly been into like more techy tech companies, so they don’t do that. Old school. So, they want to they went on a golf rounding as they landed and I was like, first thing off the plane, right? Yeah. And I was like, this guy was like, I’m not going to go there. I I don’t even golf. Like I and I told them like so they were insisting me to go even though I didn’t have prior experience. They was like I’ll teach you come team building and I was like no no no I I have my personal stuff and which they allowed me to do but then like they they saw me as like this very weird dude. Yeah. You were socially ostracized after that. And then there were so many like like like scandalous rumors about what I what I did. They were like June had like a personal thing to do. Wow. And me I was like going to Trader Joe’s like walking around the neighborhood. But yeah, that was like business trip in Korea. June, there’s so much we could talk about cuz there’s a contradiction, right? That there it’s they keep you so busy. Mhm. you know, work you to the bone because you’re traveling on the company dollar, all that, right? And then they go on a rounding trip, which is in itself expensive and also clearly not for work, right? Versus like in America, they will give you the first thing I ask a co-orker if they get back from a business trip. It’s like, oh, did you get to explore the city? Where did you eat? Right? Not about my expectation is that they did their work, whatever, put in their hours and then they had their own time, stay the weekend, you know, enjoy your evening, right? explore the city. Yeah. Can I tell you one funny thing? So, we we went on a business trip together that one time, right? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And it was to San Francisco. Oh, were you confused? Oh, sorry. Yeah. Why? Cuz you’re like, “Oh, why are we not working that much?” Oh, no. Not that part. But like we had to choose a hotel and I I don’t know very much about like where the office was and like what’s the convenient place to stay. And then you chose a hotel which was like right next to the airport which I thought was kind of weird cuz everyone else was like choosing their hotels in the city. But I thought like you know best cuz like you were in the company for like ever. Okay. So probably I should just follow what Daniel does, right? Yeah. And then it was like Yeah. What if like I don’t know if I told you this, but one of my other like my like my design lead. Mhm. It was like that’s a total bad move. Oh, bad move. Yeah. Staying at a hotel next to airport which was to be fair it was very convenient. Convenient. I was optimizing for convenience as well as it was very centrally located. There were three different places and this was in the middle. So it’s not optimizing for I’m not going out at night exploring the night. I know. I know. It’s also my hometown. So, it was very like biased to a certain lifestyle which I didn’t know. And now that I get to know you better, it’s like classic something that you should do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anyways, well also, yeah, that there’s a longer story there because last time you said you went you stayed in the city, right? Like in a nice place. Yeah. And also, I’m not a fan of San Francisco proper. Uh-uh. I get it. I don’t want to stay there. Um, it’s okay, but whatever. Yeah, but if I would have gone again today, I would have chose something in the city. Oh, you would have? Okay. Yeah, but it wasn’t it wasn’t a big deal. It was biased against fun. Yeah. No, there’s better I there’s nicer hotels I like to stay at that’s more in like the peninsula south of the airport. But again, knowing that we would have to go to both the city, both Western Bay and also South Bay is just like very centrally located. Yeah. But anyway, sorry, too much of a digression. Yeah. Should we even talk about my weekend? Yeah. I should at least mention it. Yeah. June on Saturday. Mhm. I went to two weddings. Yeah. This might never happen again in my life. Your weekend was packed. Wait, was it on one day? One day. Oh, it was on one day. I went to a lunch wedding, hotel, wa course meal, professional wedding attendant. And then I went to a Saturday evening wedding at a wedding hall bank buffet. Uhhuh. Typical classic. Both were I think pretty classic Korean weddings. But yeah. Yeah, they were they were both in Punang. They were both in Punang. Yeah, that that’s very convenient. Yeah, very convenient. I think that’s the only reason that you could have done or agreed to do both. Yeah. I don’t you know my mentality is still since being invited to a wedding is like a big honor almost and so I feel obligated if I can make it I should. I think that might be different like it’s not a close connection. Koreans might be like, “Oh, if I don’t have to go, I don’t want to.” Exactly. Yeah. So, I think I I still feel like I carry that, oh, it’s like such a big honor. But, yeah. Yeah, it it was fun, though. I I still thoroughly enjoy weddings. It’s It’s always a fun occasion. Actually, last if it if it was last weekend, it would have been a perfect day for an outdoor wedding. Ah, yeah. But both were indoors, right? Do outdoor weddings exist in Korea? They do. Oh, actually, I see them a lot. Oh, really? Okay. Okay. But there’s always this risk for the weather. Yeah. Even if it’s not not raining, then there’s like the dust issue. True. Yeah. But but yeah, both weddings were were really fun. And I think I remember one of our very first episodes where was on weddings, I have to say now that I’ve been to a handful. Uh I have to walk back my statement from that one, which I remember saying like if I never attend another Korean wedding, it’s okay. While they’re still very very different from American weddings, American style weddings, I will say I’ve I can now understand and maybe even appreciate it. Yeah. Oh, do you? Yeah. I mean, you you know exactly what to expect. It’s not a big time commitment. Yeah. You just know what you’re there for. You know, I I think for me, in contrast to American weddings, that’s where I was coming from. Oh, it feels so meaningless, so rushed, right? The guests don’t even interact. There’s no dancing, whatever. But I think just knowing what it is and the purpose of it in Korea, I can understand and appreciate it for what it is. Yeah. Is it? I think this is truly like, you know, comparison is the thief of joy. Like if you’re comparing the two, okay, like I prefer the western style wedding, but if you just look at it again for what it is, yeah, it’s it’s it’s still nice. Yeah. For me, if you had to symbolize one moment of a Korean wedding, Yeah. that would be the cake cutting for me. Oh, the Korean. I don’t know if I mentioned this in our previous episode. I don’t. But it was such a let down for me. Oh, you don’t eat the cake. They cut that. Not only that. Yeah. But the cake only exists on the part where they cut it. You know what I mean? The rest of it is fake. It’s all for show. You’re saying? Yeah. It’s very convenient. It’s all for show. There’s no waste. But that’s like what the wedding is kind of interesting. I was so let down when I knew that. Are American cake wedding cakes like that? No. Right. The whole thing is you you and then you share it with cut and share and you even save some of it for your first anniversary. It’s all like technicalities almost which is like good in a sense cuz there’s no ways you can even make it more fancier than it then than you have to invest in it. It serves its purpose. Yeah. Yeah. Which is for the show for the pictures. That’s like the symbol of creative ways. I witnessed my first I at least in my recollection maybe I missed it before but the first kind of bouquet toss in Korea right where the receiver is predetermined they’re standing right next to the bride you don’t toss it over your head you like toss it to someone that predetermined the receiver of the b I saw I saw I saw people doing it to the toss over thing but it’s it’s not to a group it’s to someone yeah okay so everyone knows who’s going to receive it it’s like an honor so again That felt again very staged, in my mind, very artificial. Yeah. But also again, it serves its purpose, what it’s supposed to be in Korea, which is a nice moment between the bride and maybe a close friend or sister or something, right? So, and it does make for fun photos like it’s all staged, right? So, oh, in that sense, like the the very or like the very organized, efficient culture of Korean weddings. Yeah. The thing that I really appreciate and I like is the flower culture. Do you know that they take away the flowers? Yes. Yes. Yes. And there’s that one person who would wrap it for you and everyone has like this little like mini bouquet on their hands. I think that’s very indeed. Yeah. And very efficient. No waste and like bringing back some good memories. I am curious how much the flower costs are in Korea. It’s it’s insane. It’s insane. Okay. Okay. Okay. Cuz it’s the same in the US. Yeah, it can be one of the highest parts like basically that’s where you can go big or do minimal and it can affect the price like crazy cuz like you can also offer fake flowers too, right? Sure. So if you see if you go to a wedding and you see like everything’s real, everything’s real. Even even the ones on the aisle are real, then you know that it’s expensive. All right. All right. Yesterday, Sunday, I had a friend visiting from the US. Mhm. And Yeah. So, hadn’t seen him in maybe a decade, two decades. So, it was really good to catch up. And then, yeah, that’s about it. We also, my wife and I’s birthday was this past week. Yeah. And we were born 5 days apart and so we had a small little celebration, too. Do you have with a friend? Do you have one of your kids that their birthdays somehow coincide with ours? No. No. Oh, so it’s not like a threeperson group thing. Actually, two of our kids are born 8 days apart. Mhm. Uh not literally days, right? Different years, but their birth dates are days apart. So that is a little sad, right? Cuz it’s like we don’t want to throw them a joint thing, but then it’s like they’re so close to each other. Anyway, yeah. Interesting that you say it’s sad. It is sad cuz I would think like, wow, like it’s nice. Nice. Yeah. The collective birthday versus the individualistic. No, it’s just for efficiency. Oh, I get it. We can only do it with just like It’s sad for me cuz it I feel like it does take away from each’s individualistic like all on me celebration cuz it’s always shared with the other sister. But if you think about it, you have four kids and they all like have they all pass down their clothes, right? In that sense, it’s isn’t it the same for efficiency matter? Like you don’t have your individualistic I still do feel bad for the younger kids who get more handme-downs compared to new clothes for them. Yeah. So yeah, I resonate with that as a as a tut. Yeah. So I never had like my own clothes until like I was a grown-up. Totally. Okay, June. Uh this long intro. Let’s move on. We had another We got lunch with one of our listeners who was in the area and you know they came from Seattle. I want to quiz you before we reveal some of the goodies they brought. Do they quiz me or the audience? It was you. Oh, really? What do you know about Seattle? Like, what’s Seattle’s reputation for Koreans? For Koreans, I might have a slightly different reputation compared to your normal Korean cuz I’ve been there like two or three times. So, worship. Two or three times. That’s how many times I’ve been there. Really? To me, it’s very rainy. Yeah. And then the vegetation is amazing cuz it’s rainy. Mhm. Mhm. Very lush and green. Very lush and green. It nickname is the Emerald City. Oh, for that for that reason. Oh, what a pretty name. I didn’t know. I believe. And then like the needle space needle which was represented in like men Men in Black you didn’t know that. I mean I’ve seen Men in Black. I don’t recall. You might not. So but in like the first or second episode like the pl like the big reveal was that the Space Needle was actually a UFO. Oh, okay. That’s right. Yeah. To be honest, I don’t remember that, but that makes sense. Yeah. What else? Like Space Needle, Rainy. Yeah. Lush. Lush. And because of my profession, I re I I recognize like Amazon. Ah, yeah. Very tech heavy. Microsoft. Amazon. Microsoft. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Close to Canada. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Pretty good. Mhm. I got engaged and I I proposed to my wife in Seattle. Yeah. So, it holds a special place in my heart right by Pike Place. I think I would associate it with salmon. I don’t know why. Atlant like sorry Pacific Northwest salmon and then yeah exploring you know weather-wise it’s raining like light drizzle 75% of the time to the point where there’s actually a a thing called I think seasonal effective disorder where it’s like seasonal depression cuz it’s so overcast and gray. Lack of sun, vitamin D. Uh-huh. And you just get depressed. Yeah. I think it’s also known to be like a music hub in a sense, like brunch music or that style in the ‘9s. I think there are a lot of famous bands from that era. Makes sense if it’s like very angry. Oh, grunge music. What else? I don’t know. For some reason, it’s like clam chowder maybe. I don’t know if that’s true. Wait, clam chowder is Bostononian. The Boston and Yeah. sourdough bread bowl clam chowder is what makes it San Francisco but for some reason I also associate it with there I think just seafood in general from the Pacific Northwest so yeah and I I do want to it it’s very close to the Canada border and Vancouver overall so I know friends who spent time either went to college there or you know they just developed a lot of friendships and also frequented Vancouver a lot so I think it’s a nice safe entry point for Canadians wanting to explore America America. It’s like it was just 2 hours away, major city, kind of progressive. Let’s like live there and land there. So, it’s a nice entry point for Canadians immigrating to the US. And I think it’s a nice place where maybe some of the Canada and American cultures blend a lot. Mhm. Yeah. Wait, Seattle’s Seattle’s Washington and they’re bordered to Oregon, right? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Also, Seattle and Portland are also very close to each other. Very drivable. I want to say two hours, but I’m not sure. Yes. I had a once I had a trip where I went to Seattle and then drove to Portland. Ah, yeah. I love Portland. Let’s see if there’s anything else I missed. Oh, Starbucks. Starbucks. Yeah, I was going to The original Starbucks 1971 at Pike Place. That’s why their their most famous blended blend coffee bean blend is called the Pike Place. Oh, it is. Yeah. Like the the typical Starbucks flavor. Mhm. I can already see your face. I can’t I can’t tell the difference. That’s called pike face. All right. Well, to just celebrate the our our visitor from Seattle, they brought us some salmon jerky. I didn’t know this macadamia roa. So apparently this roa snack is also uh very Seattle thing as well as and then I was mentioning to Alaskan smoked sea salt. This hibiscus is actually a mukongha which was supposed to be which is actually Korea’s national flower. Wait, do you guys have a national flower? Is this like an Asian thing? No, no. Okay, so I know every state has a flower has a state bird. Like we have all these things, but what what about a national level? That I don’t know. I know that you’re a national official animal. Yeah. American bald eagle. Yeah. Yeah. But they but they recently officialized that. Oh, really? It was never official. Official unofficial mascot of America. Yeah. Yeah. Dude, the bald eagle’s badass. They’re so cool. But it it does very fit the American persona, I think. Of course. Yeah. Apex predator. like just bald eels are awesome. Oh, I would love to know that. I know that you have a national anthem start and then that now you have a national animal flowers. Let me look. Oh. Mhm. Oh, okay. According to Chat GBT again, as of 1986, the national flower of the United States is the rose. So basic. I know White House famously has like a White House rose garden. Oh, they do. I I didn’t know. So, this was signed. It’s not even like a type of rose. It’s just rose. The rose. I mean, are there different types of roses? I mean, I I I think you can be more specific, right? Like something something rose or like maybe at least like the white rose or I don’t Oh, like a color or color. Yeah. Cuz like you’re cuz like the animal is not just an eagle. It’s like the bald eagle. Yeah, it’s the type. Apparently, the other flowers that were considered was the sunflower. Mhm. And the coline. I didn’t even realize coline was a was a flower. And again, maybe chachi is hallucinating. But yeah. Okay. Today I learned as well. For Korea, it’s the hib hibiscus. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. One quick story from that visitor. Mhm. It was raining in Korea. Yeah. They had on a rain jacket. Mhm. And they were holding their umbrella. Did you notice? Yeah. They were the only one. And I told I told them. Yeah. That it’s you can tell you’re a couple from a mile away cuz you’re you’re doing this. You’re literally holding the umbrella in the rain with your rain jacket on. And then they countered with you know you’re not from Seattle if you have an umbrella a and if you’re using it in such a light drizzle as you were in. Yeah. It wasn’t to be fair, it wasn’t light in a Korean standard. Okay. In my mind, it was it was not light. No, it wasn’t. It was moderate. It wasn’t heavy. It was not It was not Yeah. light. But it was so nice to Yeah. It’s always nice to meet Always nice to meet you guys and or meet listeners and Yeah. have podcastlike conversations in real life. Yeah. Okay. As a transition point, June. Mhm. Any colleges that you know of in Seattle? In Seattle. There must be a Wait, is WashU in Seattle? University of Washington. Yes. Okay. Which one is in Washington? Very funny. It’s University of Washington. Mhm. Their mascot is the Huskys, I believe. Udub, I think. Udub. Exactly. They go by Udub. And funny you mentioned. I was going to bring that up, too. Not to be confused with Washington University in St. Louis. That one’s in St. Louis. Known as WashU. Oh, I thought they were both in Washington, though. Most people would. Oh, okay. Okay. I thought they were like rival rivalries. No. Oh, okay. This This is new to me. It’s I don’t It doesn’t make I don’t I don’t know the origins of the WashU and St. Louis, but also Washington in general. It’s funny because I was, you know, born and raised in the East Coast in the DC metro. Washington to me is always associated with DC, but on the West Coast, funny enough, it’s associated sometimes with University of Washington in Seattle. So, it’s kind of like Yeah. Do you know there’s a Kangju near here in Tundang? Guangju, right? Yeah. And then there’s like a Kangju, the big city. So, anyone from southern Korea would associate with that. Yeah. Everyone here like they sayangu as if it’s like the that’s the only but you always have to preface it as like yeah or like yeah it’s kind of like that but I didn’t even know why is it why is it in wait St. Louis I mean Washington itself is just a very famous you know he’s the first president of the United States. Oh St. Louis is near DC. No St. Louis is in Oh, so it’s just like it’s just a g like a like it’s kind of like Lincoln Park, right? Yes. Yes. Yes. There could be Lincoln anywhere. I see. I see. Wow. I mean like Washington State versus Washington DC. Like I Okay, I get it. Right. But anyway. Well, cuz I have friends both from Wu and University of Utah. They could not be further apart in a sense. Yeah. And they’re both very good schools. Very good schools. Yeah. So, June In our previous episode when we talked about roommates, we started going down this rabbit hole of college roommates, college life, and then we had to stop ourselves cuz we were like, this would take a whole 2-hour episode in and of itself. So, yeah, we decided today we’re going to do a two-part series on college. So, today we wanted to talk about more of the social fun aspects of college and wax nostalgia, if you will. Mhm. And then in a future episode, possibly the immediate next episode, we plan to talk about the more, let’s say, academic side of college, the implications of college in society and culture and all that. Yeah. So, yeah, let’s do it today and really try to keep focus on the just more of the fun, social stuff. Yeah. So, today we’re going to walk the the memory lane. And to be clear, the good I mean the good thing is that we went to college pretty similar. Yeah. One year apart. Yeah. Yeah, but I also want to preface it by saying it might be very different from the the more recent college of course experiences. Yeah, we I graduated college 20 years ago, J. So, it’s the mid 2000s mid 2000s college life episode. Yeah. Or just our personal life in college. So, I don’t know how you want to do this, but maybe I don’t know 18-year-old June. Mhm. I don’t know how college admittance looks like. Do you get letters in the mail telling you like how did you find out you were accepted to college? So in the US then I’ll say again when I was some for for me some colleges were starting to do email acceptance letters but mostly it was still through the old like paper mail. Now I can see like through the reaction videos on YouTube or whatever. It’s all digital. They just like log in. It’s like anticipatory or whatever. Yeah, but it was the anticipation was in the mail and you knew that if you got a thin small envelope, it was generally a rejection letter and if you fat one, you know, it was an accept like the booklet. So that was the big thing and it’s like, oh, you know, you’re you’re we got a mail today from your college, blah blah blah, and then you’re like, was it a big envelope or small envelope? And then, you know, you kind of knew from there. So, speaking of email, like I saw this I saw this meme. It’s not even a meme, but like a viral video uh circulating on the internet on Mark Zuckerberg’s first college acceptance reaction because apparently his father filmed it. And it’s like the most unemotional reaction from him cuz like checking his email and his dad is like, “Did you get accepted?” He said, “Did you get accepted?” And he’s like, “Of course.” Click, click, click. And he was like, “Yay.” Yeah. Yeah. Back to work. I got accepted. Yeah. So that that’s college acceptance. I think again I don’t want to go too deep into it now, but I would say that is a very very stressful time for for people in the US. Basically, you’ve sent out your applications and there’s two rounds. One kind of before Christmas, New Year’s where you apply for maybe one college early acceptance. It’s like you apply for the your top choice. There’s some math here, too. It’s like you multiply likelihood of getting in cuz it’s easier overall to get in to that application combined with like how how much you want to go there and then there’s the the spring set of acceptances regular decision right and so but it’s overall a very stressful time I think especially when you your friends start getting into colleges you want to be happy for them but let’s say you didn’t get into your top choice then it’s like you have to balance those two things and I just remember as a high school senior that was a very difficult set of emotions to manage And I didn’t have anyone to talk to. My parents were you know not there emotionally let’s say and you know when you go to a big school the college counselor has no time for you as an individual. So yeah I think that’s the first like stage of college actually even before you even go like getting in finding out who’s getting in where and I think again for Americans it’s like you go you know your high school everyone lives in the same vicinity. You’re very close. You can bike to each other’s houses, right? You grew up together for 4 years and then you all are spread out to college all over the country. And then US is so big, right? It’s like, you know, there’s actually many people in my life. I’ve never seen them since high school, right? And we went to our own colleges and then started working and just we’ve lived our own lives. And so I think yeah, that’s I think the first the first time that you have to deal with those kinds of things as as an American. Yeah. I think it’s pretty much the same in Korea. The application process, I think there’s a thing called Chongi, which is like on time, and then sushi, which is more more like I don’t know, like before that. So, some people get accepted very early on, almost like mid year almost. Yeah. Yeah. But then it depends on the college applica like their program which requires them to still take the sun some some colleges to at least like achieve this much score right and then completely bomb it. Yeah. And then there’s other colleges where they won’t even look at the sun scores which means that these people they don’t have to even take the sunong and like everyone’s jealous of them. Yeah. Yeah. And then there are people who go to the Chongi route which they have to take theong and do the application and everything. Yeah. Is there a thing for that second semester senior who’s gotten into college and they’re just like don’t give an F about school anymore? Yeah. Yeah. Of course. But they’re very they’re not a lot. They’re only a handful of people who can do that. Yeah. Yeah. Basically in the you know as you start getting into your colleges that second semester senior year in high school it’s just like a party. Yeah. You’re doing whatever you want. hanging out like just you know coasting but you don’t want to so badly. Yeah. That you also you don’t want to disturb the the vibe of the the like the study vibe for everyone else. No, that doesn’t resonate like oh cuz they’re still studying for sunun. See that’s very different. Yeah. Yeah. No one’s taking the SATs. That SAT score is part of your application. So you ship it out. You’re just waiting. Right. I think the only thing people are thinking of is like don’t do so badly in school that they resend my acceptance. You know, don’t go to jail, don’t do it, don’t break the law. But, you know, other than that, people know second semester seniors, you got into college, enjoy these last, let’s say, you know, 3 4 months of freedom before, you know, college begins. Yeah. So, and then this whole whole process of like I know that in the in the US you have to write your SOPs and recommendation letters and all that. It’s very different in Korea, but I think we can cover that in the second part. Okay. Okay. All right. How about that summer? At least this is again an American context. There’s like, you know, school ends, you graduate, high school, May, let’s say, and then June, July is your final summer before, you know, August, September when college starts. So, in America, there’s like a huge association with like, you know, senior beach week. Like you just go out with your friends and your last kind of harrah with your high school friends before everyone splits up for college. Oh, and I can imagine very crazy things happening. Yeah, it’s just a lot of fun, right? Is there anything like that that that time between high school and college in Korea? It’s fundamentally different because it’s it starts from March. Ah, so yeah, semester starts from March. Yeah. And then you have like Yeah. Perhaps like two or three months before that. Yeah. Okay. What do you do in those two or three months? But I think the difference is that you’re not technically an adult yet. So there aren’t a lot of things that you can go crazy with. Oh. Uh yeah. So a lot of that craziness h happened during freshman year. I see. And not like before that. What about like I I would imagine maybe I don’t know you go on a trip with your friends like something like that. That might happen. Okay. But there’s not like a strong association for that. Yeah, there’s not a thing. A classic like everyone tries to do this. Not as far as I know. Interesting. Okay, let’s see. Yearbooks. Is that I don’t want to go into that too much. Superlatives. Okay. Yeah. All right. So, college. Mhm. What is like the first memory you have? Okay. Go back to whatever 18 year. How How old were you before you were going to undergrad? 18, right? Yeah. 19 in Korean age. 19 Korean age. So, 17 18 in US age. 17-year-old June, you’re going off to college. Yeah. What are you thinking? What are you feeling? What do you remember from that? I think I was so too much of a like a wumsing, if you will. What’s that mean? Goody tissues. Yeah. Good student that I wasn’t thinking so much about like, oh, I have to like there’s like partying and I should go wild or anything. I It almost felt like a continuation of my studies. It’s like so boring. Yeah. Anyways, the first experience that you have with college before you even enter college is that there is this thing called a OT as in orientation orientation, but they call it in Korean. It’s before you actually enter. Yeah. Yeah. Officially enter. You’re like quote unquote would contact you saying like, “Oh, like Oh, really? So students who are there Yeah. Yeah, cuz it’s not I don’t think it’s like an official school thing, but every every major does it. And then so I went to Seoul cuz I wasn’t Oh, it’s within your major too. Interesting. So I went to Seoul cuz I don’t have I I don’t live in I didn’t live in Seoul. And then so I had to take a train go up there and then Oh, for the OT. Oh, so it’s it’s in person. It’s in person. For some reason, I was taking like phone calls or something, but Oh, no. It’s like a It’s like a unofficial but kind of official event for your major. It’s the first time where you meet your you call iti. Do you know like hube thing? I know what soup means but not but if you’re at the same Oh, same means similar. Okay. Okay. Ki is like your level. No, kind of. Yeah. I don’t For some reason, isn’t in karate like key is like your Oh, your key. Yeah. your belt. Is that Well, kind of like that. It isn’t. Is it? It might be the same Chinese character. Japanese. So, your Tongi are like your very tight like friend group almost. And then so same year, same major. So, you meet Yeah. So, you meet your Tongi and then your Sbe cuz at that point you don’t have a hube, right? Yeah. Yeah. So, it’s like it’s very kind of like exciting kind of moments and it’s the first time you experience like the college drinking. Oh, at that thing. Yeah. Oh, wow. That’s early. Yeah. So ripe for abuse. Yeah. So the the old upper classman get the incoming freshman to drink. Interesting. But I think they were more careful with like the drinking thing cuz they’re still not officially enrolled, right? And they’re like kind of semi high schoolers at that point. So I don’t think they were going very hard on you, but still like you get to meet the sizes and that. And then Yeah. I pulled an allnighter. Wow. on that day. And my parents were proud about that. Oh, you told them. Yeah. At first I was like, “Oh, you’re not a goody tush. You stayed up all night.” And then I was like, “Oh, you told your parents about it.” I had to cuz I like the training was like probably sponsored by my parents. Well, I don’t get it though. Like they don’t need to know when you went to sleep and when you woke up. Oh, that’s true. Yeah. Oh, that’s kind of endearing. Yeah. And your parents were proud of you. Oh, you stayed up all night. Well done, son. I was like one of the two people who did it. Oh, wow. Okay. Interesting. Cuz I think for me, I didn’t have a place to go back like my cuz people who were living in soul, they had to go back to their parents. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, interesting. I had a similar experience. I think it’s more about, okay, you’re a senior, you’ve gotten accepted to a few colleges, but you’re trying to decide, let’s say, where you actually want to go. So, they invite incoming students to actually visit campus, and they host them and have some activities prepared. But, I only did that for one that was nearby. And I ended up staying with one of my good friends at high school. His older sister was at the school I was going or considering going to. So, stayed with her, and it was kind of a fun a fun weekend. But yeah, I mean I I think for me going into college, one of my best friends was also going to the same college I was going to. So I was very excited to go to college with them. On the flip side, I think it was not my first choice, my top choice. So I was just had this like I was balancing this like, okay, like I’m going to college, but honestly just like kind of depressed. Oh no. Really like bitter in a sense. Like why didn’t I get in? you know, I felt like I should have gotten in. Is it affirmative action? Like all these thoughts, right? Um, so that was my mentality going in. And then actually I was deciding between two colleges. One that was 4-hour drive from my home and the other that was on the other coast, which I I’d never been to California at the time. Uh, and you know, I had a I had a girlfriend in high school. So I was like, well, I’m going to I’m not going to, you know, I’m going to stay close by. I don’t know. Yeah, this is stupid 17-year-old mind. Oh, we’re going to get married. Right. That’s a very American thing, too. I think I don’t know about nowadays, but you rarely have girlfriend boyfriends in high school. Oh, I see. I see. In Korea. So, that’s sweethearts, whatever. Yeah. So, I think in my whole life, like maybe like one or two people I know dated in high school and eventually got married. But again, if I had to go back and talk to 18-year-old me or whatever, it’s just like like slap them and be like, “Dude, you’re not going to get married.” Like this. the odds of you marrying this person are close to zero. Yeah. Don’t decide where to go to college over that. And you know, I’ve shared before this is a very typical freshman experience. But Thanksgiving, everyone goes home from college. It’s two months into college. It just started. Everyone breaks up, right? It’s just like, of course, you know, you’re in college now. You want to, you know, anyway explore or whatever. So, yeah. Yeah, I’d say I didn’t have like the greatest mindset going into college, but I think a lot of people typically it’s like again that first taste of independence. And I think the most typical phrase you’d use in America for college like the main purpose of it is you want to find yourself who are you right independent from your parents now, independent from your hometown and whatever culture, religion that you grew up in. You know, you need to find yourself now independent of that. Mh. And so I think that’s what most people go into college thinking about or maybe even to that extent to like I’m going to reinvent myself, right? Maybe I was like a dork in high school. I want to be cool in college, right? And so I I think that’s the mentality of a lot of people. Go find yourself. Go reinvent yourself. Discover who you are and just yeah make, you know, friends and memories that will last a lifetime. So I think that’s your classic mentality going into college. Oh, it feels like it feels like it it evolves around so many of like relationships and like friends and stuff like that which I don’t think it’s a big factor in Korea really. Yeah. Even though you know I think a lot of people are still very close with their college like that’s one of your tight social groups in Korea that dongi like your same year same major college group right. Exactly. Yeah. But it’s not like that. I don’t think there’s like a very tight like high school relationship which factors in a lot in like your decision making and like all that. I don’t know if I was the exception either. Yeah. But don’t you isn’t that something you go into college in Korea thinking about like oh I’m going to like make friends and memories that will last my whole life? Oh yeah yeah okay. That Yeah. So yeah, that first experience in the OTI is when you meet your college friends and it almost like you feel like this is going to like we’re going to be forever. This is your ride or die. Yeah. Yeah. And then and then I think this is also before actually getting enrolled. You there’s another thing called a setto. What’s that mean? It’s more of like a It’s more of like a departmentwise like camping if you will together. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Ah okay. So like that whole department now including the professors and teachers or just the students still professors and teachers participate but unofficially. I see. Yeah. So the entire all four years of that major you all go camping together. major and like department if it’s like the broader department. Yeah, the department go on a camping together and this is pre-enrollment I think. Isn’t this like thousands of people thousands of people? So they rent out like a resort place. That’s so awesome. That is awesome. That sounds so fun. That’s when like you have all like those crazy memories. Oh my gosh, that’s awesome. You go camping together. That’s so cool. And then it’s like this like really like time to get to know your friends and everyone like even like outside your major and you meet your professors for the first time but it’s basically just like a drink like a huge drinking party. Wow. Yeah, that’s there’s nothing like that as far as I’m aware. Interesting. uh horrible horrible stories coming out cuz it’s a time when like all these freshman don’t know like your limits to how much you can drink. So like you basically you drink too much and do crazy things. Yeah. I mean immediately I just have to say this is the biggest contrast between US and Korea. US you’re legally not allowed to drink until you’re a senior and even then kind of an older senior. So your last year in college is when you can first drink, right? So yeah, first three years you’re, you know, maybe people do drink, but it’s always, you know, a bit, let’s say, nerve-wracking, and it’s like, oh, are we going to get caught? Are they going to send campus police, you know, it feels illegal, but everyone’s doing it type of thing. And so there’s this this tension, right, between like, do you drink? If so, how much? Where? And then as a senior, you’re finally kind of free to do that, which I’ll get into later. But all right, maybe we can do yearbyear. Mhm. But I I think for me, I think this is just a me thing, not necessarily a like US broader thing. Mh. But even how I chose what school to go to and what major to enroll in. Mhm. You know, my dad played a huge part in this, but it was also just kind of very like utilitarian like in the in the sense that oh, which one was a harder college to get accepted to? in that college which department was the most prestigious department let me just go there and to be fair like I was good at it I didn’t not like it but you know I think I never really thought like oh what what do I want to do with my life and you know quite frankly looking back now that’s a big point in your life you’re deciding what school what major I mean that that sets the path for like 90% of people for their life right and it’s crazy in my mind that you’re asking an 18-year-old year old to come up with that, right? And I think there’s some colleges where you don’t choose a major early. You go in undeclared and after one or two years then you decide your major. That to me feels more right. And I was just in this place where like yes, I was going down this major, you know, spoiler, computer science. Uh but also like I did a bunch of premed classes. Oh, you did? Cuz I think this is when I really Is that an Asian thing? I really realized like I didn’t know what I wanted to do and I was never I never thought like oh what what do I want to do with my life it’s still more about like what should I do what my parents want me to do what keeps the most options open so I was like premed I was like computer science major and I ultimately chose where to go and what department to go to based on just kind of a numbers thing but also under heavy guidance from my dad. I see. Yeah. I think this is again very different than how I hope to help my kids navigate this process which is really like you know knowing this is such a big decision point and you know path in your life is set so much by this this decision you make really make it you know maybe be flexible but also really stop and think like what do I want to do with my life type thing I don’t know I just I never even asked myself that very similar to what you were saying June it felt like the continuation of high school. Okay, study hard, get good grades so that you know four years from now I can get a good job, right? And you know that was kind of I think my mentality and I wish I had more perspective. I don’t know if it’s the Korean influence from my parents. I don’t know if it’s if it’s the general immigrant experience, but yeah, I just I was never asked or thought about these things. It’s so interesting. Your story is so interesting to me cuz it’s it’s like the complete opposite for me. M I don’t know if it’s like a personal thing or like a Korean culture thing, but at the time I felt like it’s such a big decision that I have to make that would determine my life lifetime. Mhm. But I know this is like this is again I’m biased because of my personal like life trajectory of how things worked out. Yeah. But looking back to like 19year-old June, I would say it doesn’t really matter. Yeah. Don’t even like cuz I I didn’t end up doing whatever major. Yeah. Your undergrad major you didn’t do. Your grad major you didn’t do. It was like such a it felt like such a heavy decision that I have to make. Oh, interesting. Yeah. But now looking back in hindsight, it’s like it doesn’t even matter just like enjoy college life more kind of. Yeah. That’s so interesting cuz I think we’re all so biased by how our lives worked out. Exactly. I would say my life worked out great in a sense, right? And so looking back, I’m very appreciative, and I’ll get into this more later. I’m appreciative of the guidance and maybe strong guidance my dad had in my life and life decisions cuz it led to this outcome that I think my dad was hoping very stable, comfortable, right? American dream type life. But if I actually stop and think like my passions, my, you know, personal desires and hopes and dreams and all that, you know, this is where it got me to where I’m, you know, having a midlife crisis. I don’t know what to do with my life and time and I have no purpose and mission cuz I was just following what I thought was the right path that my parents had set out for me. And again, it led to the outcomes they wanted. But this is the counter to that. It’s like I I’m not let’s say pursuing my passions, let’s say. Yeah. So, like if if I had to do if if I could change my college life, I would say like stop focusing on your studies too much. And then don’t really care about what decisions that you make. Just explore a lot of things outside of college. like like date a lot of people and like do this and do that and like really figure out what you like cuz like I think that’s a integral part of early adulthood that you have to really understand what you like like what makes you the most happy so that it acts as a barometer of like things that you make decisions on later on after that. Totally. Yeah. I wish I could. So I do agree with that. Yeah. But a part of me is like, had I done that, would my life have turned out the way it turned out? That’s that. Yeah. And it’s like I’m pretty happy with my life turned out. But also, I think you’re very exceptional. I think like the the choices that you made that followed from like going going through that like very good route actually ended up being like a exceptionally successful one, I think. Yeah, I think that’s fair. A lot of luck involved. Yeah. Yeah, that’s interesting. Yeah, this is not college related, but yeah. Okay, maybe for a future episode cuz I want to say like I know this is hindsight bias, but I feel like while my particular path was exceptional in that way, like very lucky, it almost felt inevitable. Studying computer science at that time in that era, I don’t know, it just felt a bit maybe not to this level, but felt anyway. Okay, side side note. Okay, before I get into more freshman year, let’s see. The other thing for me is, yeah, there were four kids, I think, from my high school, all going to the same college. And I think this was both a blessing and a curse in a way. Mhm. You know, three of them, three of us were in the same major together. So, we did all our homework together, problem sets. Like, college was really easy, not only because of my high school prep, but because of this group I had. We all took similar classes together. We could navigate it together. We had the same context, right? So, we were instant friends, of course, even though we weren’t super close in high school. One of them we were, but we got even closer in college, right? The flip side of this though is like I said, find yourself independent of your home, your parents, that culture, whatever. I couldn’t do that, right? Cuz it’s just so much of it carried over. And it’s like I think they say for for dogs let’s say you should never take two from the same litter because then they just play with each other. They never socialize as much with the humans. And similarly like I had my litter. We were close but I never got to let’s say or was forced to explore find myself independent of that. So I’m very grateful I spent like 80% of my college time with these three people. At the same time it’s like oh if I didn’t have that you know it would have been a very different experience I think for me. You said you you guys were in the same major too. Same major. That’s a Yeah, that’s a big difference. So imagine from the same high school going to the same college in the same major. Yeah. I don’t know. Freshman year anything you wanted to anything jumped out one one thing or memory or learning from freshman year? Freshman year just a lot of crazy drinking. Interesting. Yeah. Uh, one crazy memory that I had cuz I went to like a more I don’t know if I can even say this, but like a masculine type of major. What What is a masculine major to you? Cuz like civil engineering, it’s more like predominantly men. Oh, male-dominated. Okay. Okay. Okay. So, they’re very I think they had pride in how much they can drink, which is a stupid thing if I think about it. Yeah. And like the one memory that I have is that in the very early drinking days Mhm. at the time mid 2000s. What was in trend in drinking culture was a quote unquote quiet soju. Fruit soju. Yeah. It was like fruit flavor infused soju which is supposed to be a little bit more softer. Same in the US. Yeah. So that was like a big trend thing, right? Specifically yogurt soju kind those kind those types of things. That is dangerous. And so I go into this sip where everything’s like prepared cuz there’s like probably going to be at least like 50 people. So we rented out the place and I go in and everything like the table is set up and they’re like choir soju on this table. I was like, “Oh, this is like not bad as I thought.” Yeah. Right. And then as I sit, they bring out the real soju and they tell them, “This is your anu. You’re warming up with the soju.” Then no, you just drink the soju and then you and then you drink the like a chase. Okay. As if it’s like an anu. Isn’t that That’s like one big memory that I have. Okay. What’s What’s your limit or what’s the most you drink? Do you remember? probably like it’s crazy that I think about it now. It’s like maybe four bottles of soju. It’s like I would never do that now. One of my cousins Yeah. he said he won his military US you Korean military drinking contest. Seven bottles. Oh my god. Bro, that’s like you’re going to kill yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Also, also what was very predominant in college culture at the time was this is a very Korean thing culture athletic what it’s not athletic but it’s like if I had to translate it’s like the I want to be politically very politically very corre correct about this but most of college like student bodies are very politically infused at the Oh, it’s more like left leaning. Oh, okay. I mean, that’s the same as in the US. Most colleges are liberal and left-leaning and it’s very it dominates the college culture a lot in that way. I’m still waiting for the connection. So, like all the class activities that you do that are run by these student organization bodies are heavily politically infused. We we sing Yeah, we sing like political songs. That’s so wild to me. Yeah. Really? And then there’s like s like connections to like the actual like bigger like political movement organizations for adults like they’re also connect there connections there and so we learn about those propagandas and stuff. That’s like that was like a big experience for me in in college. That’s very interesting. Yeah. It feels unhealthy. It feels like these political organizations are trying to indoctrinate college students in a very susceptible time in their life. Yes. Yes. Yes. Exactly. Because at the time I didn’t even know. I thought this was just like adult college culture. So the one time that I realized this is oh this is actually like a very serious thing is there’s this culture called in Korea. This is like a very Korean thing. During breaks you go to you go to like shigors. Okay. And like the facade of it is that you go to Shigor like the college students go to Shigor and you help out the farming thing because there are a lot of like work labor there. Yeah. So I thought this was like a very fun you know kind of activity community service almost. Yeah. But then I realized that it’s a connection between the like the shigore like political movement organization to the student thing. Interesting. And then so we did actually do the farming whatever activities but at night like we come together and we talk about like this politics like anti-America like FTA is like bad and stuff like that. Wow that’s crazy. I was like oh what did I get into like that was when I realized weird this is a very integral part of at least like the mid 2000 college life. Interesting. Yeah. I was going to associate it with I know my mother-in-law speaks about this sometimes, but I think college students to be fair in the US too, but in Korea they’re famous for demonstrating like very strongly, let’s say, right? Like protesting things like student protests, right? So maybe that’s where it’s coming from. But yeah, that’s like the trae trajectory in history. But nowadays, it’s all gone. Okay. But but my college campus was famous for not having what do you say like the like the blocks for the pavements. So that’s what you usually do in Korea for the pavements. You don’t cement it block the pavers. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mhm. But my college campus was famous to like cement everything because during protest they would like pick up the blocks and throw it. Oh my gosh. That’s why I learned. Wow. But yeah. Okay. Interesting. that was a big part. I do think overall again universities in the US tend to be liberal, left-leaning and again student protests are a thing, right? But I don’t think it’s to this extent. Yeah, definitely I was not ever feeling like I was being indoctrinated or pushed one way or the other. So yeah, this is very like I think a very far-left leaning thing, but in college like this like the word mijay was the first time I heard it. Not as in like made in US. Mij in that context was short for like American imperialism. Wow, dude. Okay. Isn’t that crazy? All right. So, if I met you as a college freshman, you might be like arresting me. Interesting. Yeah. Okay. The other thing that stands out is right like you went to actually a formal drinking place to drink as a college freshman. Yeah. Again, as I told you, in the US it’s illegal. So, you know, fake ID, whatever. But all the drinking was done in college dorm rooms or it was done in, you know, frat houses or whatever. Out of the public eye cuz, you know, technically you weren’t allowed to. So, very big difference, I think. But isn’t it cuz you said that most of the time the city around the university, college town, wouldn’t they be more accepting of that? In a sense, they’re, you know, it’s like a don’t ask thing, like, okay, but in a sense, they’re more aware of it. Like, they’re trying to, they know that underage people are trying to drink, so they’re going to be extra wary. I see of people using fake IDs or trying to sneak in, lying, etc. Yeah. So, cuz the thing about Korean is that there’s that like quote unquote bot age where if like you’re like maybe let’s say you’re 97, 87. Yeah. But then you also you’re Tongis, there are some people who are 88. Ah, that’s right. little younger. Yeah. January and February almost cuz and they’re technically tech technically not allowed to drink. But they they’ll be okay. But they were like always okay. Yeah. Very different in the US. I mean the age range is big. Like I said, it’s not like college second years can drink. You have to wait four years before you’re legally allowed to drink. So it’s a big difference. College freshman versus college seniors. I see. Freshman year. Yeah. I to be honest, I didn’t have many memories. This was really an extension of high school. Mhm. I studied hard, had perfect marks, applied for my first choice again, transfer, didn’t get in again. I also had a very Wait, was that med school? No, no, no. But anyway, that year apparently there were over 800 transfer applicants and they only took three. Oh, transferring actually to another. Yeah, to another college. Yeah. Yeah. So, I I was still again like my parents dreams, my dreams, like she’ll kind of hold on to that rejection but didn’t happen. In hindsight again, it it worked out fine. Mh. But yeah, that was my mindset. I was quite depressed. Had broken up with my high school girlfriend, just like trying to find myself. But it really was an extension of my my high school life in a sense. My closest friends were those high school friends in my major. And also I found the Korean-American church in my in my college. And so yeah, that was again 100% of my time was probably spent with those two groups. Yeah. I also want to mention this is also very important culture in in college in Korea which is what’s what we call like club activities. So these are like small groups of yeah small groups that evolve around a certain topic. Ah yeah it’s like like a animeari ah club interest club hobby club. Yeah. So a lot of people are they they join one or multiple of these clubs. Uh that’s a very big part of college culture too. Were there something similar in the states? It of course but it never felt as formal like people you know typically it it involved I don’t know are you going to join a frat or not? Are you a part of like an athletic group or not? But otherwise it’s just like finding that community. But it never felt like, oh, you have to choose one of the like five clubs to join type thing. There wasn’t like a very clear listing of all the clubs you could join. Yeah. There are there are times when specifically all the clubs go out to like let’s say the college quad. They’re trying to recruit people, right? Whether it’s for rowing or something like that, but it never felt so structured, I would say, in my mind. It it’s so interesting because it it just clicked to me that it goes so much hand inhand with Korean like social group. Yeah, there are like small groups of things that you always have to be associated with and something that you’re like it’s kind of like your main thing and then your like side thing kind of. So if you like met a random other college student your year, you’d be like, “Oh, what year? What major? What club? What second club?” That’s just how you talk about it, right? Yeah. But some some people choose not to really heavily invest in clubs and they just stick with their major group which we call like guardong like gua is major is like activities like so people who are more invested in guarong are more like that’s your main like home ground and then that that was that was me and then I tried doing a little bit but it didn’t work out. Yeah. See, I really I guess someone like me, I think, would have appreciated the structure that Korean college life seems to have provided cuz I think for for me and I think Americans in general, you like you’re like floating. You’re looking for these communities. It’s very fluid. It doesn’t seem that high committal. I mean, obviously frats can be high commitment, but you know, it’s very like fluid like jumping from thing to thing trying to find yourself. Whereas in if I went to college in Korea, it would have been like, oh, here are the 50 clubs. Yeah, pick your primary and secondary. I think I would have appreciated that structure, but for me it was just like, you know, I’ll talk about it more if we have time, but just really fluid floating like I tried to get really deep into my major to contrast your major earlier. Like mine my field was also very male-dominated, like 3 to1 in general, but not masculine at all. Very nerdy like you know your typical picture of computer science major. I bet my major was also very nerdy, too. But we thought of thought of ourselves as being very masculine. No, I don’t know. But, you know, computer scientists, they’re very nerdy. Just like dark dark basement, just coding, playing computer games, which to be fair, that was my life. Yeah. To clarify, going back to like the structure of things, it wasn’t like officially like your primary club and your secondary club. It’s just the way that it worked out. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. It’s not that there’s officially a primary club in secondary. Well, I mean, it’s just like social circles. You have your tight click and then you don’t have time for anything else because it’s so demanding of you. That’s what I’m saying. It It felt very fluid and like less demanding in a sense. I see. I see. Of course, if you’re like a, you know, varsity athlete, actually playing on the official college team or something like that, it was very, you know, high commitment. But yeah, in the in the in the US again, I I think the first thing I tried was like I I always had done coding competitions or whatever. So my college had a very, you know, very strong professional coding team. I tried that for a while. Wow. Dropped out like didn’t really care that much. I see. Obviously, the things that stuck were my Korean-American church group and, you know, I tried hanging out with like the more in major in department things, you know, getting together, volunteering, whatever. never really clicked for me. Again, that was a kind of maybe in hindsight a very hard time in my life. I see. But is there a thing called a guang department room? Yeah, there was, but I never spent time there. And it was mostly I think it was for the grad students to hang out. And the undergrads only went in if they had some association or reason to. Oh, that’s so different. But we didn’t have like an and if we did again computer sciences it it would have known to be very smelly and disgusting kind of it is it is but there’s always a dedicated physical room for both majors and then the clubs. So it’s like how physically it’s almost like how much time you spend almost cuz like in in college your timetable isn’t really packed like high school, right? So they’re like in between times where you don’t have to do anything which we call kongang. And then those times like where do you go hang out? If you’re like more invested in your like major type thing, you go to your guabang. And then if you’re like more of a club person, you would go to like your club room. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe we should talk about that. What’s your average course load look like in college? And like how do you manage your time? Cuz I think that was a a big thing for me. Mhm. I really struggled to manage my time. stayed up late, procrastinated, like overslept things all the time. It was a huge disaster. It’s it’s something that if especially if you’re a freshman, your home kind of help you do that cuz you don’t know how to. So, I think still compared to high school, it was very it felt very loose. Mhm. Yeah. So, the ses know how to do like they have the knowhow how to make it more easier for you to like packet everything on the A.M. so that you can go home early or stuff like that. And then were you assigned like a upper classman buddy? Like who when you say the sess was it like one sb that was assigned to you? Just like a group you can group as like it’s a very tight relationship anyways so you don’t have like a very there’s no dedicated person but the sizes would just like cuz you just hang out in your major room. Step back. How many people per year per department are there? It differs. I’m thinking 100. No mine had like 20ish. Oh wow. But even still, how can 20 So every year 20, so 80. Yeah. How can that be tight? I don’t know. In my mind, it’s hard to imagine. It’s almost like a required thing. You have to be very tight. So like you go to that department room and you like ask the elders, elders, 20 upper classmen, help me with my schedule. Oh, interesting. Yeah. It’s the point where I didn’t have to ask. They were like, oh, look over your shoulder like, oh, can I help you with this? Oh, wow. That’s so awesome. And then one more thing, as a freshman, you have a you have a very The thing is that you don’t have to pay for any of your meals. Wow. Yeah. Some pay for everything. How do some have money? Everyone in college is broke and starving. They do all these like albas to save up for like that cuz they got it when they were younger. They want to pay it forward. But to be clear, I think it was for just like that one month which was like the first month the first month of March which is almost required but then after that it was a little bit more loose. Wow, that’s crazy. I also want to talk about that like enrollment of the classes. Yeah, it’s like the most stressful thing ever. You have to wake up. I know. I know. Yeah. You go to like fairness. Yeah. It’s just you look at the server time. Was it like that for No. What? So this every Korean has this memory of how stressful it was in the in that era. So we often times if we enroll in like these concerts and events we all refer to like oh this this like this makes so much sense. It explains so many things about Korean culture. Yeah. Yeah. I So you guys are trained from a very young age to like be early multi- like computer fast internet connection trying to like sign up for the registration class when you first learn. Oh my gosh. Okay, side note like the way that our kids school does after school activity clubs the most ridiculous thing to me but now it makes sense. It’s the same way. Oh, there’s a registration time first come first serve. Yeah. No, no, no. the way it should be in my opinion is everyone applies and maybe there’s like some cut off time but by the cut off time then there’s a lottery system and like that to me seems more fair in a sense it’s like everyone has an equal chance at getting in if you want to whereas Korea it’s almost not fair who has the most it’s like a skill thing in a sense but also there’s luck now that you talk about it why didn’t we design it that way I think that’s the more fair system set a cut off time everyone expressed their intent and then it’s just, you know, draw draw straws. Yeah. It just makes it more competitive for no reason. For no reason. Yeah. Interesting. Oh, okay. That explains so many weird things about Korean culture. Sorry, not weird, but things that I get stressed about. Okay. Two things I want to share freshman year before moving on. One is maybe I just want to air a grievance, which is I remember I all throughout high school I spent my summers doing research right at, you know, a local college or like a local research institute. Mh. and I wanted to do the same in college. So, I go I was a computer science major, but I went to the head of the electrical engineering department and said, “Oh, I want to do research.” And this guy is still in hindsight, I remember like 18-year-old me, this guy was so mean and rude to me, like, “Oh, you’re a computer science major. Why are you here?” Wow. I’m like, “Well, I was this another student or No, it was the it was the dean of that major.” And it’s like, it was such a deflating moment. Mhm. It was like brighteyed bushy tail just trying to like do the right thing. It’s like getting the smackdown in the most rudest, meanest manner. Oh wow. And look, in hindsight, there’s so many things that could have played a part, right? But I do think there were like department tensions between computer science and electrical engineering. I see. I think, you know, maybe he saw me as another like international Asian student just trying to like be hyper competitive or something, but I I felt very naive in hindsight at that moment. and I was trying to do the right thing. It’s like really getting a smackdown. Felt really terrible. The second thing is I was horrible at time management, right? And I I overslept my final exam for one class. Oh, and I still remember that moment of dread. It was the most ridiculous thing. I was shooting pool at like I didn’t oversleep it only. I just forgot about it, too. I was shooting pool and then my friend comes back who was in the class with me. He was like, “Oh, where were you? I didn’t see you this And I was like, “What do you mean?” O F. Oh my god. He was like, “You’re kidding, right?” He was like, “You know, our final was this morning.” Oh my god. And I was like, “Oh my god.” Well, you didn’t know it was on that day or you knew it, but you forgot. I hadn’t been going to class all year. God. You know why? It was like 7:30 a.m. And it was the most bor when I went to class, I was just sleeping. Oh. Right. Because it was the it was intro to accounting. It was one of those you have to do an out of major elective, whatever. And I’m sorry, like this was the dumbest class I’ve ever They were like, “If you calculate this thing two ways, you get the same number.” I was like, “What? Why are we learning this in a college class?” And it was just like memorizing terms and definitions. And to me, in my mind, in hindsight, it makes sense. I’m really bad at this stuff. It was the most mind-numbingly boring thing you could ever talk about. Cocky. No, but I I did I did I did bad in this class. Like it’s not no I wish this is not my area of strength like memorizing these kinds of things and like being meticulous about I’m a highle concept guy even in computer science I’m very very good at the algorithms the math I’m very very bad at the actual coding and implementation but anyway that just moment of dread I will never forget it like oh I just threw my life away my parents are going to kill me I failed that like everything was just like my life is over. Yeah. Thankfully that teacher professor was very gracious let me retake it and I think somehow I got a B or C. I don’t Oh, they made you retake it. Nice. Yeah. These electives are so painful for me. Wow. Okay. That’s freshman year. I I’d say overall the other clubs I did I I had played volleyball four years in high school. So I also played on an intramural volleyball team. We won in case you were Oh, you did? But at the lowest level, there’s like advanced, intermediate, and beginner. So, we we won beginner level. Anyways, what but that’s a that’s a thing. Yeah. So, like I think in in college again, sports are such a big part of your life overall in America, but there’s like the varsity, then there’s club, which is not officially you’re not playing for the school, but you’re at a very high level, you know, very high commitment, and then there’s intramural, which like the casual students playing against other students. So, that was the level I was playing at. But still, it’s like I found a lot of community, a lot of memories, and still friendships to this day playing volleyball with people. So, I remember what I was going to say. So, when we enrolled in all these classes, of course, like especially in your first semester of freshman year, you still have that inertia from like high school of like, oh, you have to study for this. And so, I thought the natural thing is that, oh, like let’s let’s form like a study group. Let’s study for this together. And like I remember my like ses looking at us and saying like as if like we’re the stupidest people ever. Wait, why? They were like why are you doing this? Like you should enjoy college life. What? Yeah. Yeah. So that’s interesting. So the big caveat is that even up until the mid 2000s like my school was a pretty good good school in Korea. So we had no issue in getting a good job regardless of our grades. So they thought we were stupid in trying to get good grades in college. Why bother? Yeah. But everything changed as we were like trying to graduate. So it was like I think in hindsight it was a better move but anyways they thought we were very stupid. Ah yeah. So I’d say my perception and what I heard as a Korean-American was yes in Korea again we’re the same generation. Let’s say once you getting into college in Korea was the hard part. Yeah. Once you got in you could do nothing. College was for partying. Yeah. At least that was the perception even in Korea. Sorry, even for Korean-Americans in America of Korean college life. That was up until like the mid 2000s cuz I started hearing at my sophomore year like my ses couldn’t get into like their first applied job and we were like what’s going on? Right. This is the first ever. Yeah. Let’s see. Okay. Sophomore year. Sophomore. Sophomore year for me was big. I think that’s when I finally started to get settled. You know, I said I in a previous episode I did not have a great freshman roommate experience. But I got to choose my sophomore year roommate, this kid from New York. Yeah, I think a lot of memories from that year. But I don’t know where where where I should start. June, do you know what a sock on a door handle means? Oh, like a tie on a door handle. Is that the thing in Korea? No, I saw it on Friends. Oh, is that the same thing? Probably. Yeah. It’s basically privacy. Please don’t enter. Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So, that’s like how roommates communicate with each other. Like, I want some privacy. Put the sock on the door handle. Close the door. There was one time that that roommate his he was like, “Oh, my girlfriend from New York’s visiting this weekend.” And I was like, “Yeah, don’t worry. I’ll move out for the weekend. So, I literally did I took my desktop computer, went to those, you know, those previously previously mentioned friends place. I went to their dorm room and literally just lived there for the whole weekend. It was It was fun. We It coincided June with a Diablo I ladder reset. Ah. So, we literally played like 36 hours straight. Yeah. Of Diablo I. I remember a ladder reset. It’s like every 3 months they reset everything so it’s a fresh start. Okay. And I remember after logging out, I was a top 10 barb in North America. You were a barb? Barb? Yeah. I always played barb. So I I felt both immensely proud but also kind of sad. Like what am I doing with my life? But mostly pride. I was like, I am a top 10 barb. Jeez, that’s crazy. It reminds me of your volleyball thing cuz you were in the US server. Isn’t that like the beginners? Yeah, you were in the Asia server. I don’t know if Diablo II was big in Korea was very big in my high school years. Yeah, we were casual, so you know, in a sense, but we just played a lot. 36 hours straight. I still remember, you know, the only reason we left was to eat. And then the other thing I guess this weekend like perfectly encapsulates that year, sophomore year of college for me. There was another thing we did was which which was this the school put on in its main like auditorium $1 movie nights or whatever on the weekends and so probably literally every weekend me and those friends that the three of four of us we would go watch a $1 movie and so that was like our thing to do while other cooler kids were going to frat houses and drinking we just went to go watch $1 movies. So yeah, played a lot of lot of Diablo II, a lot of online poker. Oh wow. Yeah, this is where I got all of my spending money actually is through online poker. Played a ton of that and then Yeah, it’s crazy. Why? Similar life. No, you it feels like you’re like that very like smart genius kid who would make money on like online poker like kind of cool. Cool, isn’t it? Cool. See, that’s the opposite. I felt like such a nerd and dork. I was full of like shame and embarrassment and low self-esteem. Wait, but like compared to like actually doing like a part-time job, isn’t it like more easier? I don’t know. I I never felt that way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I also maybe that is my I I never thought of it this way. But not only was I playing Diablo II, I was botting. Like I had bots playing and I would sell the items for money, whatever. $5 on eBay. Yeah. But yeah, I made enough money so I can like buy my own food, spend, you know, my own spending money. Oh, that’s so cool. Yeah, my parents I don’t I think I never asked. They probably would have given me money if I needed, but I never asked for money basically. Yeah, my parents didn’t provide any financial support outside of of course paying for a very expensive college. After college though, that’s kind of the end of that that relationship in that sense. M the the final thing. So the the second thing that perfectly encapsulates college for me, you know, Nelson, one of our previous guests, talked about this, too. We just played basketball and then ate Popeyes. Like that’s what I remember from college. But why why Popeye’s again? It has to be Popeyes. It’s so good. Cuz it’s just good. It’s the best fried chicken. No KFC. No KFC. No, no, no. The the batter is not as crispy and it’s not as tasty for for us. So yeah, that’s like again 90% of Is that not Is that not like a like a black culture? Oh, fried chicken. You know, honestly, a lot of I’d say Korean-American culture is more black adjacent than any other race. Is it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Why so? I don’t know. It’s an interesting question, but I think it is. It’s it’s I think it’s true. You know, I think a lot of Koreans moved into, let’s say, predominantly black neighborhoods, right? And this is what caused a lot of detention for the LA riots, right? Like, oh, why are the Koreans taking over our corner stores? Why are we shopping at all these Korean-owned stores, right? Convenience stores, restaurants, whatever it might be. And I think that caused a lot of that tension. So, but yeah, I don’t know. I I don’t associate Popeye’s necessarily with black culture. Maybe it is. Um, but yeah, basketball, played at the the college gym for 2, three hours. Now I now I can’t play for more than an hour without getting super tired. But we would play forever, go eat Popeye’s, and then go home. So yeah, that was 90% of my sophomore year of college. Basketball, some volleyball, watching movies for $1, playing a lot of online poker, and playing a lot of Diablo. Oh, World of Warcraft. Oh my gosh, we have to talk about World of Warcraft. You’re nerding out. It was also World of Warcraft. And I don’t know why I never got into it as much as my friends, but I I of course there was Oh my gosh. Yeah, there was one time I slash played. Was this sophomore or junior year? Sorry, junior year I think was really when it went crazy. But June, there’s this function in World of Warcraft where you can see how much time you spent in the game slashplayed. I’m not kidding. I think in one calendar year I played 100 days. I was logged in for whatever 100 days time 24 hours. It’s sick. It’s gross thinking about it. Wow. That equates to like almost like what? A third of my waking hours. Yeah. It’s it’s gross throughout the years. Throughout throughout one calendar year. Yeah. It was it was really unhealthy. In Korea, my college, it was still Star Starcraft. Yeah. And then at the time, Starcraft was still very an old game, but everyone was still playing. And I remember us thinking, “Oh, this is going to be our like golf generation.” Yeah. Yeah. So, we’ll have to So, we’ll have to learn it. Like, at least for me, cuz I didn’t play Starcraft. So, that was my first attempt to play Starcraft. The biggest handicap for me in Starcraft, although I’m not really good at gaming in general, but it’s the color blindness. I didn’t know which was which. That’s so hard. Yeah. Yeah. There’s a there’s a function where you can just like toggle colors now. Yeah. Like enemy to like Yes. But still, I wasn’t really Yeah. But I truly believe that if this game is sticking around for this this long, maybe it’s going to be like a staple like thing that networking event after I become an adult. That’s what I truly believe. So I was like interesting I have to learn learn this thing. Other than that, sop sophomore year felt very much like whatever you felt as a first child and then what you feel as when a second child is born. You feel like a lot of attention is moving towards that new the new freshman freshman and at the same time I have to take care of these guys but then we feel a bit like out of the focus now and feel a little bit of betray betrayal. Yeah, I get it. slightly sad, but but also fun now that like we’re like we know what college life is kind of like and like we can act as some that was kind of fun. And did you have to pay for their meals now? So much money. I paid over Pengalon on one month which is a lot of money for college students. For college students that is a lot. No, totally. And in the mid200s. Yeah. Oh, so wait sorry when you say upper classman is it immediately one year older? Not the whole oneyear-old or two-y old everyone. Okay. Okay. Got it. But it’s more the responsibility of the sophomores. Oh, it is. Yeah. Okay. Okay. That was not clear to me. Yeah. That thing. By the way, before you move on. Mhm. There were these four Korean-Americans/ Korean Koreans. Now I realize in hindsight, but first gener 1.5 or second gen Koreans from Jersey. Yeah. They played so much Counterstrike, it was absurd. Oh, and they were so good that they would get kicked off of servers cuz they were assumed that they were boding, like basically cheating, but they weren’t. I was watching them play. It was all like, you know, 360, no scope, snipes, but they played so much. And I think that was my first realization that like, oh, Koreans from like Jersey, New York, different from Koreans in the suburbs. They were like smoking. They were cool. They like growing up in high school, they had been going to PC bangs their whole life. And for me as like very like sheltered, naive Korean-American boy from the suburbs. I was like, “What? You guys did that?” I was like, “Oh, wow.” Like it’s we we there’s different Korean-Americans. Feels very spoiled though. I wouldn’t say spoiled. Like coming from a wealthy family, you know, maybe more rebellious than anything in my mind. In my like Christian, conservative, sheltered mind. I see. Like, wow. They like stayed out at night to play computer games. Yeah. Also, my sophomore year is the first time I dated Oh. a freshman. Oh, okay. All right. Now that I think about it, it’s kind of weird. Okay. Cuz cuz she dated one of my Tongis. Ah. And then and then I like dated her, which now now that I think about it, I wouldn’t do that. But at that time, I didn’t know anything. It didn’t feel wrong. It felt a little bit wrong, but like I was like, what are I going to do? Did you get your Tongi’s blessing to date her? We just like not talked about it. Okay, let’s see. Anything else from sophomore year, Jen? No. I Oh, I think from sophomore year I started doing like the quoteunquote alba to make money. Okay. Okay. It’s mostly qu like tutoring. Yeah. Yeah. Nothing special about that. Yeah. I also again trying to find myself in this way. I did research for like six weeks but yeah I I lacked so to make some like side money whatever or whatever exactly like that but I was doing some research and then yeah in hindsight this is where like I didn’t have the perspective I wish I had like you know this is a very like pretty difficult to get research position but I just didn’t take it seriously like I had no meaning or purpose or value in it. Mhm. It just felt like something I could do, so I should do it. But yeah, I quickly lost motivation, right? I think that’s the story of a lot of my life. And the other thing I have to shout out, this is when LeBron James was becoming his his rookie year and I just remember being in like the dorm room with the TV. Like you talked about Korean dorms, too. We had one as well and I was the only one watching this him play his first game as an NBA athlete. Oh wow. His first game. Like this has happened to me over and over where like I care more about things that maybe my peers don’t. It’s like why is no one interested in watching LeBron James’s first NBA game, right? Well, he was already big as a rookie. Huge. Yeah. He was probably the most hyped high school player of all time. Oh, I see. But I remember still very very much being in that room by myself watching him play and just going nuts like how is this guy so good as as an 18-year-old rookie, right? So, but yeah, I think that also stands out to me sophomore year. All right. Should we Oh, I’m also curious. Jun, what does your typical meal look like? Like, are you still Cuz I I shared previously, at least my college freshmen were required to be on the meal plan, but after that, you weren’t. And so, again, to save money, save my parents money, I stopped I this was like the first year I had to provide for myself food-wise. So, anyway, I always got $5 pad thai. There was a series of food trucks near where I went to college. So I ate probably again like 80% of my lunches and dinners were there. Again, meals are relatively very cheap, not only compared to the US, but also compared to Korea outside of school. So you just stay at all your staying in campus. You just paid cash or card or whatever. Yeah. Okay. Oh, one big difference in sophomore culture that Americans wouldn’t have is that now like some of your Tongis start going to military. Oh, so crazy. That’s also what I heard. The most typical timeline for a Korean man is do your freshman year, then do two years of military and then come back as a sophomore 3 years later. That’s wild. That’s so disruptive. Mhm. In my Okay, explain this to me. Why wouldn’t you just do your military before college and start college? Oh, maybe because that’s weird. Like you’re two years older than everyone starting freshman year or wait till you graduate college and then do it before starting work. Like to me the idea of interrupting college for two years seems crazy. So the reason why you don’t do that before high before entering college is that you want to you want to at least experience that freshman experience on your like on time with your with your peers basically cuz like the age thing is such a big thing. So if you’re if you come back from military you’re you’re called a poking like come back student and you’re like classified as something completely different like they view you as like an ai and you can’t really Yeah. You can’t hang out with your Tongis. See, isn’t that a weird dynamic? It is a very weird dynamic. Yeah. So, you want to at least experience like that that peak of your college life as a freshman and then go. I see. Yeah. So, your your Tongi start going to military is a is a thing sophomore. Some people go on your third year. Yeah. It’s also kind of weird to me that it’s like a choice. M like isn’t it I I’m curious why the culture didn’t evol evolve such that everyone just did it at the same time to give you more freedom I think a little bit although it’s an obligation. Okay. Yeah. But would you say like I don’t know a very high percent did it between sop freshman and sophomore year at least for me like going on the first semester of sophomore year was a little bit of an anomaly for my dongis. Oh that was early. Yeah. Oh okay. Okay. Most went to like at least second semester or first semester of third year. Okay. Yeah. Interesting. But yeah, again, this explained a lot once I found out in my like late 20s looking at resumes from Korean applicants. Like why were you an undergrad for 8 years? It’s like a two-year military, one year internship, took time off. Like I think that flexibility and freedom is very different than America where it’s like, “Oh, if you didn’t graduate on time, it’s a red flag almost like what?” And I think again that’s maybe a cultural misinterpretation. I think a lot of people looking at a Korean resume would have similar questions. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Third year. Is there not a term for third year? Junior year. Oh, junior. I was trying to be Korean. Yeah. College third year. Yeah. Junior. as a junior, you know, now you’re officially an upper classman. Yeah. Right. Still can’t. But I think some people are starting to become of legal drinking age, but still not most people. Yeah. Most people can’t drink yet legally, I believe, till senior year. Let’s see. Junior year. It was kind of a blur for me to be honest. It was more of the same. Still a lot of online poker, maybe even more. This when I started having a bankroll playing in bigger tournaments, right? But no, no, no. I play very low limits, June. Okay. But for me, in my mind back then, playing like a $100 buyin was crazy. I was just like, what am I doing? There’s so much money. Yeah. But, you know, I was still better than your average player, so I could still make money back then. I’m starting to realize I shouldn’t play poker with you anymore. No, no, dude. Now everyone’s caught up. But I will say I was I was very early. There was an online forum. This is like very early internet. Online poker wasn’t even a thing. Two plus two forums. I was introduced to that very early poker theory, limit theory, all that. So, and I had enough math background to, you know, I know nothing to know all nothing of all of that. But anyway, let’s see. I would replacing Diablo II with World of Warcraft. This was the year I just played too much, but still a lot of online poker, still a lot of basketball. The only thing I think worth recognizing is two things. one I had a bunch of this is where I had a bunch of friends a lot of let’s say Korean Korean Koreans but they went to international school this is when I started to really like maybe get to know them more try to hang out with them and they were all like business majors so they were trying to start a business fraternity which is again more of a professional frat no partying no house no frat house or anything but just like trying to be more of like a professional networking let’s Okay. And so they needed numbers. They needed 30 charter people. And so they were trying to recruit me. They’re like, “Look, we just need you to show up, put your name down, and be a charter member.” So I did it. So that I think that was the only unique thing I remember about junior year. The other thing was we started to Yeah. Okay. Sorry. Three more three things. Two two more things. One, this is when I first started to notice burnout, I guess. Oh. Because from all that poker flame. No, no, no, no. I think from not having any intrinsic motivation to studying my whole life. And again, I I came in with actually second semester sophomore standing from AP credits and other things. Again, very intense high school experience made college a lot easier. But I basically had satisfied all my graduation requirements. And so I was starting to take grad classes. Mhm. And it made me realize undergrad was like training wheels. It was an extension of high school closer to high school than let’s say real life or you know professional working life. Grad school was crazy. Oh my god. You had no training wheels, no guard rails, no guidance just like you versus the world. Yeah. And you know I was whatever I was 20 turning 21. Most people were like mid20s. That’s a big difference. It’s like 25 26 let’s say compared to 2021. Yeah. And so I started taking grad classes and I struggled hard. I don’t think you’re officially officially allowed to take grad school classes in Korea as an under heard of that. Yeah. What if you take all the undergrad classes there are to take? Just take more undergrad classes. Interesting. Yeah. So I started signing up for in major grad classes and again I just hit a wall. I didn’t have the study habits. I didn’t have the motivation. And so anyway, I don’t know if I want to talk about this now or after you go, but probably led to the maybe one of the biggest decisions I made, which was yeah, I I I graduated a year early after my junior year. So I I just decided like, hey, I’m done with school. I don’t need to take more. I don’t want to take grad classes. I think this is the first, not first time, maybe second time. I think I really disappointed my dad because he wanted me to go on to grad school, get a PhD, all that. Yeah, but I remember actually I I I applied to one grad school just to appease my dad. There was a requirement you had to take whatever the grad version of, let’s say, the SATs. I did zero prep. Walked into this thing. I thought I would do great. Turns out you need to study for the test. Bombed completely. So I I basically did not obviously get into that grad school. I applied to and yeah I just I graduated early mostly because I didn’t know what else to do. I didn’t feel motivated. I didn’t want to do another year of school. In hindsight it turn I I this is something I really regret. Yeah. So, I think senior year in college is when you really, you know, you can drink in the open. And I think you’re now more confident, maybe have more spending money, did jobs in the summer, whatever. And it’s a time where I think very similar to what I was saying as like a second semester senior in high school when you just kind of enjoy more than anything else. Yeah. And you know, this chapter of your life is coming to an end. But I didn’t get to do that. I didn’t have, you know, I graduated without my peers. I went into and yeah, I’ll talk maybe more about what should have been my senior year. Maybe I won’t talk about it, but yeah, I just missed out on a lot of life. Let’s say all the enjoyable parts of college I kind of missed out on. And yeah, I I really regret graduating a year early. But in my mind, again, I didn’t know I didn’t know what classes to take. I I knew it was expensive. I didn’t want my parents to have to spend another money, save again. We have we’ll talk about this more in our future episode, but yeah, college, private college in the US is crazy expensive. Um, and so yeah, I think all those things factor in just me deciding kind of like I don’t know what else to do, so I’m just going to graduate. Mhm. But I didn’t have a job lined up like because I wasn’t expecting to graduate, so I wasn’t even applying for jobs. It was just like kind of a very in the- moment. I was the reason I did it actually was I was supposed to be thinking about classes for my senior year first semester and I didn’t know what I literally did not know what classes to take. And so I was like, “Okay, I’m just going to graduate. I don’t know. I don’t want to come back to school. No reason to.” So yeah, for me, I don’t think it was very special. I decided not to go to Kundai in college and rather do it after after my grad school studies. Oh. Oh, so I I made a choice there. So I I wasn’t going to kund. Yeah. And then the third year is when you’re poking the people who are coming from Kund starts taking classes with you. So that there was like this weird dynamic where like these are is really weird very sizes are taking are taking the same classes together. I’ve never met these people. That’s true. Yeah. That’s so weird. But they know all my other sizes. Kind of like that kind of weird dynamic. And they’re much older. Three years older. two years or in some cases if they went there earlier or like later they’re a lot more older anyways and then this is a time where your major like the classes related to your major becomes more serious so it’s like much more study focused than your or your freshman and sophomore year so a lot of like studying in the guabang the the the the classroom the cla the major route ah okay okay and then for me personally I was trying to this So the third year is when you can officially transfer to a different major. Oh, really? You have to wait that long. Yeah. So that’s when I started thinking about maybe I should transfer to architecture. So I did take I was taking like architecture major classes which was fun. And then this is kind of similar to like your f like your freshman experience where you went to like the head of whatever class. Oh yeah. Different department. Yeah. So I asked so I met like this architecture major professor and said like I’m interested in like transferring to architecture and yeah that guy was like also very cynical like oh you think architecture is very fun like you should think you should consider you think anyone can transfer to architecture you should consider this and this and you know that it doesn’t pay that much and like this much of work blah blah blah so I ended up like not actually transferring but like going to grad school as an architecture major which I think was a decision now that I think about it. Oh, then transferring and trying to do an undergrad major in IC. You know, architecture majors at my school were notorious for always being in the architecture like room just sketching like late nights. Exactly. Just working incredibly hard. Yeah. I always felt bad for them. You know, I was playing basketball. They’re like, “Hey, where were you?” I was in lab or what you what do you call it? Is it lab? Studio. I was in studio. Yeah. Again, all night, all weekend. For what? Now that I think about it. Anyways, that was I did I don’t think I have particularly interesting memories of my junior year. That much just a lot of studying. Yeah, it’s so interesting, right? I think both of us have that similar like freshman year, especially maybe sophomore year, a lot of memories, a lot of change, but then by junior year, it’s kind of like you’re settled. Yeah. Doesn’t feel that different. You’re used to it. Yeah. And then my senior year. How about senior year for you? Which you you didn’t have. Yeah. I didn’t really. Yeah. I think it was just an extension of junior year. Yeah. Although I think the the the the load of studies was lifted off a lot because I think intentionally you have to start applying to jobs. Oh. So to allocate more energy and time for that I think I think it’s specifically structured designed that way. So not a lot of studies you have a lot of time in your hands really. Yeah. Where you can do things but for me I was applying to grad schools instead of applying to jobs. So it was a good time to do that. Ah what else other than that? Sorry. When did you make that decision? I’m going to go to grad school. I’m not going to go to a job. when I decided not to transfer. Oh, so junior year. Yeah, you kind of decided that early. Interesting. Oh, and then there’s like Oh, then then there’s this in my grad school. In my grad school, there was a summer program for people specifically like me to do like a try out. There was a six week court like camp like not a camp internship type thing. No, like a like a very compressed like semester thing that you can do a try out. Okay. It was called like career discovery or something. It was like my my grad school’s program where like college students could apply and do a six week challenge thing. Got it. That simulates a grad school life. Yeah. Yeah. One semester of that. So that was very helpful in determining as well. Sorry. made you not want to do grad school in that major. No, it made me wanted to do it. Let’s off record. It’s Harvard offered something. You apply. They don’t they Yeah. Sorry. You applied, you got in. Yeah. So, as a high as a college senior, you got to do a six week, but did you travel to there? Yeah. Oh, whoa. Okay. So, you basically did a study abroad for one semester. It’s six week during vacation. Oh, during vacation. Oh, got it. Are you the summer applicant? Okay. Got it. Got it. Got it. Okay. Okay. So, oh, we didn’t talk about that either. Study abroad. I will get into it. Yeah. Yeah. But even like the application process, it it emulates the actual process, too. You have to write an SOP and then you have to submit a portfolio and everything. Oh, maybe not a portfolio, but any anyways, I did six weeks of that, which was very fun. Cool. But it was a very lightweight of studio experience in hindsight. It’s like they didn’t want to scare you off. I was like, “Oh, this is actually really fun.” Similarly, my my school, they always say somehow every year, miraculously, the weekend they invite fresh incoming freshmen who are deciding whether they want to go or not, that weekend has the best weather all year. It’s just like a mira a miracle every year. Yeah. Lures them in. Let’s see. my senior year. What would have been I think I will say well to again for the record I never dated at all in undergrad after breaking up with my freshman girlfriend from my my high school. That picture is a lot of your Yeah, I was just kind of depressed and lonely and I mean sorry not lonely. I I I really had good friends and good community but never dated nothing romantic. And then anyway, so I felt like that’s something I I wish I had dated more in general in my life, but you know, college is that time where you’re supposed to. Yeah. But and that’s like a lot of different influences, but whatever. And I think the the one thing I’ll say is when I graduated early, I remember telling my parents like, “Hey, I’m saving you guys a lot of money. I just want to decompress for a year. I feel like I’m burnt out. I don’t know what to do.” Of course, my parents were like, “Whatever, sure. Just come home.” Yeah. And like in hindsight, two weeks in to summer after graduating, I was just I was wasting my life. I was playing a lot of World of Warcraft, just like trying to hang out with hometown friends, get reconnected with them. Sounds like a life. No. Two weeks into summer, my dad was like, “Son, you need to get off your butt and get a job.” So much like, you should have just like let let him be. I don’t I I appreciate it. Yeah. So, you know, I I did start applying. I got a job and eventually started working. But yeah, this is two weeks. Yeah, that’s true. I wish you could have had it for 6 months at least. Well, I wish he gave me the summer at least, maybe two months to just Yeah. waste my life in a sense. Waste my time. Decompress. But that’s not my I think my dad very patiently waited two weeks. Oh my god. No, in hindsight, I’m honestly very grateful because I think without Maybe this is the bad of it, but I needed that pushing and structure and like I needed someone else to give me motivation to do anything in my life. This is why like I I couldn’t find any self-drive at all. So anyway, yeah, that’s how I started working and you know I guess rest of my life is for another time. But yeah, that’s I I have to say too I had a lot of FOMO so fear of missing out my Okay, two things I’ll share. one my senior year, what would have been my senior year, my the the hometown team won the Super Bowl and like I don’t know it it was a huge football region and so their hometown team winning the Super Bowl. Yeah. Huge deal. I had so much like FOMO from my friends like they were out partying, celebrating, burning cars, like burning sofas, just like rioting. like they said everyone went out in my friend’s pickup truck and just like cruised around the downtown area. I was just like why am I not there? That’s so cool. And so it might seem silly but and it’s not necessarily celebrating that event. Yeah. But you know that memory with your friends that like these are all my friends I should be there with. Meanwhile, I was just like off in another state just working like all by myself. Super lonely. Yeah. And I guess I should I don’t know. We we can’t not mention college in the US at that time without at least mentioning Facebook. Mhm. It was first launched I guess my sophomore year. Mh. And I mean this just made college so much more enjoyable I would say. M just like seeing you know it let you keep in touch with your friends from high school but just seeing photos and like lurking and like looking at people’s photos and just like it was it just made the experience it was such a deep integral part of college at that point that I have to at least mention it and obviously now it’s become a huge thing but yeah anyway in Korea we had the cy world cy world in college yeah yeah yeah that’s a big thing so yeah I think that’s that’s that’s college for me Mhm. Anything you want to talk about graduation, June? Like, do you wear a cap and gown? Do you throw the hat when you graduate? Yeah, but I actually missed my graduation cuz cuz my grad school started earlier. Oh, yeah. So, I had to Oh, that’s like they made the international students go through like a language thing before actually semester starting. So, I had to miss my graduation. Oh, that’s sad. Yeah. I do think what what jumps to my mind is that the Korean school calendar year and the American school calendar year don’t align at all. Yeah. So, it’s always like either you leave early or start late or there’s like a weird independent like intermediary time where I see. You have to like anyway that one semester that doesn’t match you have to somehow Yeah. Okay. Are there times in college where like you typically travel home? Let’s say in Korea cuz in the US this is generally Thanksgiving. People tend to try to travel home if they can. Yeah. Okay. Spring break on the other hand. I don’t know if there’s a equivalent in Korea. There’s no spring break. There’s winter break too. Sorry to be clear. And winter break I think are where you try to go home and spend time with your family and reconnect with your hometown friends who are also all back from college. And then spring break is where you like go party with your college friends. I know that’s that culture of spring break. We don’t have in college. All in all, I think very different. I would have to say sounds very different. Sounds very different. I don’t know. I’m kind of envious of a lot of things I’m hearing that Korean college has provided. Really? Just like again a lot of the structured socialization, let’s say, right? and very close bonding between you and your major, your peers, your upper classmen, your lowerassmen. I think that’s pretty cool. And again, I think that could exist in the US. Mhm. It’s more organic and therefore it’s less I think like widespread. Yeah. I I’m envious of like the autonomy and freedom. For sure. Although like college students in Korea have that too a little bit, but it just feels like you’re already a grown-up that you have to make your like very serious life decisions. Uh compared to in Korea, you are technically a grown-up, but it feels more like an extensuation of high school. At least for me, with a little bit of like freedom in like your your outside of school life. Yeah. Yeah. I would say freshman year feels like that in between for me. But then starting sophomore year, even though you can’t drink, even though whatever, you’re still only 19, 20. Yeah. That’s when it really did feel like, oh, like I’m independent. Uh I may never live at home again. I’m my own person and yeah, I’m starting my adult life. It did kind of feel that way. Of course, more so when you graduate, starting getting a job, whatever. But yeah, I think for me that was the the shifting. It shifted a bit in sophomore year. In the moment, it wasn’t like a stark transition, but just in hindsight, that’s what it felt like. Yeah. Okay. All right. All right. College social life, college part one. It was fun. I had a good time. All right. That’s it for this week. As always, if you’d like to support our show, please consider sharing us with a friend that you think might enjoy our content. Beyond that, if you want to support us financially, you can follow us or you can support us on Patreon. With a Patreon subscription, you get access to our Discord where you can talk with other listeners, discuss the latest episode, and propose future episode topics. Since the last episode, we have three more new Patreons starting from Fabiola. Thank you, Fabola. And then Chong Min. Thank you, Chong Min. Thank you, Chung. And then Alicia. Thank you, Alicia. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you to all our subscribers and supporters, right? but especially the new ones. All right, that’s it for this week. Thank you. Thank you. Bye. All right. Yeah. Since the last episode, we have three more Patreons, right? No. One, two, three. I trust you. Oh, one just edited. Okay. From the last episode, we have three more members and one edit. Um, talk about the edit. Okay. From the last episode, we have now four more Patreon members. Wait, just three. Struggle bus. Oh.

This week Jun and Daniel explore the social aspects of college life in Korea versus America during the mid-2000s. From orientation experiences and drinking culture to roommate dynamics and networking, our hosts walk down memory lane sharing their vastly different undergraduate experiences. What is “OT” in Korea and how does it differ from American college orientation? How do Korean freshmen interact with upperclassmen? Why is drinking culture so different between the two countries? What political influences existed on Korean campuses in the early 2000s? How do student clubs, dorm life, and major-based communities compare?

If you’re interested in learning about college admissions processes, the infamous “enrollment wars” for Korean class registration, department rivalries, online gaming obsessions, or the impact of military service on Korean college timelines, tune in to hear Daniel and Jun discuss all this and more! This episode also features stories about Daniel’s online poker side hustle, Jun’s experiences with politically charged university culture, and the striking differences in how students form social bonds in each country. The hosts reveal their regrets and lessons learned, including Daniel’s decision to graduate early and Jun’s reflections on focusing too much on academics.

As a reminder, we record one episode a week in-person from Seoul, South Korea. We hope you enjoy listening to our conversation, and we’re so excited to have you following us on this journey!

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