Where the All Blacks must improve and Ireland innovations the Boks couldn’t stop | ARP

1:46 Did the All Blacks improve against England’s Rush defence?

4:00 Should Beauden Barrett start?

9:38 Finding solutions to the All Blacks’ lineout woes

11:20 Ethan Roots on playing for England, rush defence and Maro Itoje

30:14 Ireland’s drop goal heroics against South Africa

34:10 Irish innovations on attack

36:20 Why are the All Blacks’ attacking structures less complex than Ireland’s?

40:43 Should the aging Boks be worried about players making it to 2027?

43:46 Are Australia and Wales improving?

46:28 Black Ferns co-captain Kennedy Simon on re-signing and the English grudge that motivates her

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[Music] sh and welcome to the Alo rugby pod once again a huge weekend of rugby really tight contest in this July window of course the island just got up over the spring box we talk about that quite a lot later on the All Blacks they pipped England but that wasn’t easy the Aussies got away with it we’ve got a guest for you today as well Ethan Roots out of the English Camp will be in studio Kennedy Simon from the black ferns who’s resigned in New Zealand Rugby will also be coming into the show so there’s a lot to talk about as well as your emails your comments in the YouTube comments section for the chance to win this gilber rugby ball from our friends at playersports so plenty to get into and joining me here Bren Hall Brena man that was an exciting weekend of footy wasn’t it deliv what this English side brought to us and I think it was a great assd test I think for this coaching group with how with how they played we’ll go a little bit deeper around it but yeah what a great test match series really close really competitive and I think if you’re an English fan and your English supporters you’re going to be pretty I think happy with where this young group is and I think with that with that World Cup in three years time they’re building something really nicely not only on the defensive side but and that attacking with Marcus Smith being at the spearhead in that number 10 team now James Parsons isn’t here with us today because he’s in San Diego getting ready for this New Zealand fij game and he’s done it in style straight away touches down first day he’s gone to the Padres versus the Braves baseball game and look at the get up on him look very drippy from James Parsons so he’s going to contribute a little bit to the show sting us through a couple of little pieces of analysis but mostly it’ll be Brena myself and the guests on their way through let’s talk about New Zealand England let’s talk about execution Under Pressure do you feel despite the win that the old blacks learned from how to deal with rush D from England or not the D and being able to get the ball away it’s really hard especially if you’re not getting that game line advantage and being able to get in that kind of high 60 65% gain line it’s really hard to be able to do that and I think the the solutions that we found in these two test matches was actually going to our contest game and I actually probably thought our contests was was a little bit off on on the weekend I think we had the right game plan the great the right mindset in terms of we weren’t getting that momentum we went to our box kicks but the execution unfortunately was just a little bit too long so we weren’t able to put them in that pressure cycle and been able to I guess have them attack from a 5 meter Zone with when the kicks been put on the money whether it was through finle Christie or through Damen McKenzie it was just a bit too long and I think also our back field unfortunately with our pendulum was was a little bit off like if you look at that fail and bosel try I think it just shows the pendulum and how important it is and I think you know when you’re 15s in the line like Steven Pera made the tackle for that and what that does is if you know if there’s two in the back field and one of them has to make a tackle that far Blindside Winger will 10 in this case which was Damon has to come all the way across to be able to cover for that in behind space and so in turn Mark tiia ends up have to being a little bit tight and if he’s not back and understanding that um the backfield which on the weekend he was a little bit too tight Marcus Smith was able to pull trigger from that so and not only just with the attacking kicks from Marcus Smith I think the ability that he was able to find grass and been able to put it in behind territorial which made it really hard for us to be able to then try and um kick or counter attack because that backfield was was a work on so um that’s probably two areas that I thought we could be a little bit better um I know that’s the defensive side of the ball but I think in the attacking side when Bowden Barrett came on in the last 20 minutes he completely changed changed that game his ability to be able to counter of counter attack which were able then to be able to get around get go go forward ball and then were able to score points off that so I think the the bench in the last two matches Ross were very very pivotal and how all blacks been able to get the results and how they were able to be composed considering it was a very tight test match on the weekend and the one previously before that’s interesting that’ll take us to our first question then from James feny now James has asked whether Bowden Barrett should be starting at 10 you know he’s made such a huge impact in those two second halfes in two quite different ways actually one was long kicking game in test one two was more attacking and short kicking game and the ability to set people up do you feel like he’s going to end up there at 10 or is Bowden best placed coming off the bench it’s a really hard discussion because I think you know if you’re if you’re B you’re sitting there coming on you know I’ve come on in two different ways to be able to win us test matches and I think on the weekend he was back to his his best and you know he was almost a super sub and I know he was really good in that and around in the first part of his career been able to have that role and I think it’s a luxury that that Scott Robertson’s going to have knowing that you know you can bring bod on and and been able to bring him on to win test matches like he did on the weekend but at the same time if you’re home you want to reward him for him to be able to play but then you’ve also got Steven Pera who’s playing a second test match do you want to give him confidence to be able to continue to keep doing what he’s doing with the notion that b and Barrett can come on and win a game and probably is more valuable coming off the bench but I think look we’re playing Fiji in uh in San Diego you have to think bod would get given an opportunity because I actually thought Damen and him working well together in that last 20 minutes if you look at Mark till second try you look at Damen McKenzie identifying that he was on a prop to be able to get a 3v2 and then bow and Barrett identifying that and racing into space which you know is very hard to do against line speed but that wasn’t actually a line speed example but their ability to be able to work out off together you talk around the the two pivots and we had Richie moong and bden Bar in that 1015 you saw that was pretty evident those two working really well and I thought Damen had some really great touches on the weekend I know his contestable kicking game wasn’t where he wanted to but the influences that he had with ball in hand look at the CHP very early on with Cody teller that they weren’t able to score off that and also has ability a couple of flat passes to be able to get around the edge I think that was for when Civ ree made a line break was a great ball that he had and then also as well his um um his ability to be able to score on that 3v2 with bow and Barrett so I think we keep Daman there keep giving him the confidence that that it’s his team and the more time that he’ll get in the settle in that 10 Jersey it’s going to be better for the or it’s interesting because the conversation has a lot of preconceived ideas in it I’ve seen people say n it’s not working I’ve seen people write up articles saying he’s n and a half out of 10 you know he’s doing really well and providing options you know where do you you see that he’s he’s growing do you feel like he has found his feet after two test matches or do you think it needs more time I just think at any time when you’re a 10 you need to be able to have time you know time in the in the saddle so look at Richie moong you know he had to go 4050 test match has been able to you know come off the bench or maybe 20 starts to be able to get a really good understanding I think it’s a great introduction for for Damian in terms of what the style that we did play we played against a high line speed pressure which you’d have to say not say it’s an arches here of the all but it’s been a difficult proposition for us to be able to try and get through that so for him to go through that to be able to get the learnings probably around his contestable kicks and be able to get that right knowing against High lines speed pressure or really tight test matches you have to be able to execute that and like I said before his influences on attack you know that were about there were three of them which in turn led to points and his goal kicking was was a lot better as well so I think he’s he’s doing really well there’s just one area has contestable game which he’ll execute a lot better he’ll go back and and be better in that space But re R he’s having some really good influences and I think him and bod in that last 20 minutes and both test matches have been really good in that space so I was given a challenge by the next question that came in of course you can send us a question at alter rugod sky. co.nz or put it in the comments section and we’ll try to answer as many of them as we can during the show got one from Ted n and I’m giving you Ted because you made me really go and find this information and I was quite interested in the information that was coming through but Woody stat sky went out and found it he wanted to know the winning percentage with all three barretts playing in comparison to all three barretts not playing since they made their debut together on the 16th of June 2017 against sour now they featured in 49% of those tests that’s 43 of 87 of those test matches the All Blacks win 76% with the barretts all on the field and in that time they won 72% with not all of the barretts on the field so I’m sure there’s lots of other elements in a rugby game that really matter but thank you Ted for challenging us to finding that out we’ll talk about it in a second but you will get the players sport ball the Gilbert players sport ball and we’ll make sure that that gets out to you very very soon you can probably argue that they’ve never been more influential like you mentioned the captaincy the vice captaincy and bowden’s place within the team never really questioned over the last best part of a decade right so from now on in that percentage is probably a more important stat than it’s ever been because they’ve been entrusted with so much responsibility you’re right and I think it’s just time as well as well Ross you know like you know Scott’s played a lot of test matches jordy’s very very experienced you know I think his first game was in 2017 in that Lions tour so you’re talking about runs on the boards and being able to have that continuity of being an all black and understanding what’s required for that these guys have been able to do it for a very long time so they’re very influential in this all black environment you know I think as you seen they’ve been nominated captains Vice captains and you’d have to think bod’s in and around that leadership group as well so yeah I think the better that those three can stay together um and been able to get on on the field as much as they can um it’s great for New Zealand Rugby and especially the All Blacks moving forward now one thing that Scott’s really going to have to fix up is his part of the line out now the All Blacks really struggled on the weekend when they won their line out they got sacked and turned it over and sometimes they didn’t win their line out so I’m sure that he’s going to play a big part of making sure that gets fixed and jipper sent us through a video to really break down what he thought went on there the English were you know superb in terms of their lineup defense and so no doubt Jace Ryan um Cody Taylor and and the senior players Scott Barrett um Patrick T Pluto will be looking at that and and looking at how they can best find Space um and the one thing I will say is you know and and I was guilty of this when I was playing is you get fixated with winning it middle back because it allows your attacking platform to really I suppose get off to a good start but if they give you the front take it all day they’ll eventually move and get sick of losing it to the front and then once they move then that should open up the middle back if they don’t move just find a way I suppose speak about it during the week is how they best um can utilize that front ball because the English were giving it um well I suppose they were giving it initially and then they did move once theb started winning a couple one thing I did love about the line out though is the way we came back a svia got up and stole a couple or at least disrupted that ball so it’s not all doom and gloom at the lineup but they’ll be looking for I suppose that clinic um of 100% so that they can exploit um the fijians here in San Diego so on that note we’ like to welcome our guest we promised them last week to you from the England rugby team but SP a spare bit of time here in New Zealand along the way Ethan Roots Ethan former teammate of jipper former teammate of Bren you’re going to end up on this show at some point weren’t you yeah absolute treat to be here as well good to see you mate sorry I just want to say your fashion sense has actually really come massively in the last three years thought I was seeing with you R is that all sponsored to power or thank you thank you uh sponsored power I don’t know no no none of that not not everyone’s quite on the europ pool’s Vibe like you m get we’re getting there we’re getting there when you did play Super play for the Crusaders did Hall recruit you or uh yeah funnily enough he did he did do a bit of recruiting actually um there’s a couple teams uh Keen at the time but um yeah I had all made in my air and uh couldn’t get couldn’t get rid of him and ended up spending another year with him down down there so that was good yeah did he have to fight off uh jipper and Shan Stevenson and everybody else yeah yeah shooter was the main other one um they were both having a little they start think they started offering me a bit of cash actually as well but um didn’t didn’t come to that didn’t come to that tell us a little bit for people who don’t really know you from New Zealand and around the world how a kiwi boy from the shore played a bit for Harbor played a bit for the Crusaders ended up playing for England um well uh just like on uh eligibility rules my my old man was born over there so I get in that way but uh basically I just got the opportunity to go overseason and was a short-term gig went over there really enjoyed it got off it a bit longer and been over there for 3 and a half years now um and yeah enjoying it having a look back yeah yeah down in exitor what’s that like uh really nice surrounded by beaches um it’s a good place for family clubs class as well uh got a really young group uh really good young group of boys and um yeah we we’re doing pretty pretty well for ourselves that English Premiership now or even that Northern Hemisphere rugby do you see do you feel that it still is the physicality and set piece but the openness and willing to play is a lot better in the last three years that you’ve been there yeah I think I think it’s has changed a lot I think especially this year we saw like a massive difference uh start of the Season till end of the season you’re seeing teams playing with a lot of flare um a lot of rasle and and trying to shift the ball and keep a bit more continuity in the game um naturally as you come into those um Christmas months you know uh December January the weather turns on you a bit the game gets a bit tighter uh it’s probably why Six Nations is one of the the tightest competitions as well in terms of like around the breakdown and um strategy in the game um so naturally it changes changes there so yeah sorry you got a question I just put the hand up mate so when you’re ready to finish I’m in there mate you go you go I’m I’m done just watching you boys it seemed like you guys had a different um a different DNA in probably the last couple of games especially against irland the French and your Rush defense that you guys have bought in bought in when was the the I guess the the fix not the fix when was the change with that kind of game game plan was that put early doors or was it throughout the competition Steve St only been in the uh in the role that he’s in right now um for a short time and just been in still it was a new group moving into Six Nations lots of the World Cup guys had had moved on and uh he was just instilling the fundamentals um and then we sort of one week it just clicked and uh there was a slight mindset shift to to you know have a bit more aggression and attack and it all just came together with the the uh the foundations we had laid over the last few weeks and then you know the quality of players that we had in the team to the didn’t take us forward in those last couple of games like when you attack it you obviously have seen something within the all black structures that is there to be taken was it identified quite early hey these guys have struggled against us and this is a place to really pressure them um yeah I think there there was a little bit of that but it was mainly like we wanted to bring we wanted to play an English brand of rugby um we wanted we wanted to do um you you know we wanted to make everyone back home proud and and make the the rest of the group proud and we just tried to do that by playing like I said English rugby you know we didn’t want to go away from like I said the fundamentals of our of our game um and we just wanted to put a little bit 5% extra on the the end of it yeah Michel Smith brings 5% extra yeah and and the rest yeah he’s um the the Wonder Boy of the team and he yeah he’s class do you see him at training and think wow like what can’t you do man yeah it’s uh some some of the things that gets pulled off at training is ridiculous um I think a couple times just in this Camp you saw that double volley from uh well double volley just a volley from B and Barrett on the weekend I think we saw sady do that in Camp uh Marcus done it in Camp as well uh just in training so that sort of stuff yeah kind of blows you away well as a loose forward it blows you away anyway yeah yeah the skills are pretty extra he Bren yeah well just just on M Smith like watching on the weekend you guys whether this has just happened kind of genuinely or there was not a plan but the contestant kicks in the attacking kicks Ethan you guys got a lot of pay you scored a Troff in just before halftime but Marcus Smith was finding a lot of space whether they was through the kind of attacking kicks on the on the wings or even the kind of in behind and putting that that pressure on did you guys see Trends in around the backfield of New Zealand where you thought you’d better get some pay out of there yeah I think probably just uh saw that uh it was a bit of an inexperienced back through they you know hadn’t played a lot of games together they probably saw some space space in that sense um I know stepen pered and and Mar at the blues together aren’t they um but you know you got seu just coming back into International Rugby um none of them are really probably uh oh Steve’s a Steven’s a kicker but you know the others aren’t really kickers they’re Runners so potentially just a opportunity to try put them in a corner and and put them into a place that they don’t really want to be yeah and you got them in a corner for large periods of that game didn’t you yeah it was pretty impressive yeah but you know the old blacks they uh they find a way and they they got out of the corner unfortunately but um you know it’s what good teams do tell us a little bit about Maro to cuz he was next level in those defensive line outs he is spending a lot of time working on what the opposition are doing and and he’s on tape and and really getting into it yeah literally I think uh it was the next day after the first test we were sitting on the bus together and he is just picking apart the game from the night before on the laptop um lineup obviously specialist um just picking them apart what what he thinks they’re going to do next week already and and what we can do better so um it’s a part of the game that he really focuses on and you know obviously he’s really really good at it he’s obviously been around for a long time he’s an incredible player and you talked about there being a young side and a new side and he’s a guy who has done it all how important is he to making sure that everything works within your forward pack uh yeah he’s he’s obviously pretty massive to it I think he just pushes um both of our locks really uh just push the fact that we need to be right now right on with our detail right across the board not just at line outs but with everything um and he just pushes that sort he just drives those sort of Standards because he’s that guy at training as well um so you see it consistently for through the week from him so um yeah he’s some that everyone in the group not only hinges on cuz he’s got the experience but um looks up to during the week to build their week as well plus he’s got a massive engine and a massive body H to match the he’s a damn good player you kind of played with many better than that no he’s he’s unreal and he’s um yeah he’s top BL as well so yeah what about Chandler cunning him South like like you a boy who spent a lot of time on the NorthShore although he’s went to Hamilton boys as well made his way back to England um late 10 early 20s and and here he is now have you had a chance to connect with him I suppose on your your Mutual stories and and how similar your journey is on the way there yeah I think uh it was a first St of camping six nations we just we just sat down we sat down at the back of the room together and we just sort of said to each other when how crazy is this like who would have thought uh first of all that one of us would have do it and then the fact that two of us you know both like you say similar similar background similar sort of Journey um would be there uh in in English Jersey and and about to represent England and Six Nations one of the biggest comps uh competitions in the in the world so yeah it was pretty pretty surreal just on there Ethan you’re debut mate obviously you got play of the day for that for that game but talk me through what that week looked like for your a pretty special occasion for for your family for yourself and I guess where you transition from New Zealand going to to England what what was that whole week like and what was that experience to be able to put that um that rose on for the first time yeah um it probably started on the Sunday is it was like uh when I initially got named uh to play by Steve um it it was emotional for me personally and then um it was just a case of uh making sure I ticked all the boxes mentally uh more than anything you know tried to keep it as as normal as I as regular as I could um try not to overthink it um and then the travel out to uh Italy as well like just yeah everything was just a little bit like I kept checking myself making sure that it was actually happening because I I couldn’t believe it because uh yeah just never thought something like that would happen for me and then come game day my mom’s there my um partner and two boys are there um and yeah got got uh um videos from everyone the night before that was emotional as well and then yeah actually stepping onto the field seeing everyone around there I’m singing singing a national anthem and um shoulder Tosh shoulder with the boys from from Chief I got chan on one side I think and Henry on the other and I just like like I said I just couldn’t couldn’t stop pinching it was just pinch myself moments all week and uh yeah to to get my first run out was um unbelievable and I tried to throw everything in there I think still trying to find my feet in International Rugby um solidify myself in that spot but um yeah it was it was Unreal were you well versed in the anthem and stuff oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah um I won’t give you a rendition right now that’s what I was looking for U no yeah yeah yeah yeah we um yeah we obviously yeah you got a note for uh you you can’t go on there yeah um got a whole bunch of messages afterwards from a few boys saying can’t believe you sung it but you know that’s that’s what I’m representing uh I’m representing now I am English and I’m proud to be English so it was cool so you feel a pretty deep connection there um yeah it’s it’s similar to um you know I know was I was born raised here but um you know blood’s blood um so uh yeah I do have a deep connection I got lots of family over there um heaps of them have been coming out out to the games and stuff like that so yeah yeah I do that’s a cool opportunity a chance to reconnect with with family and and see them more regularly on that side yeah it was loads of loads of them that I haven’t actually seen and then a few um that had made the travel over here and I I had met before and so it’s been a bit of of a journey in that sense as well um so yeah it’s been really cool yeah that’s awesome that’s also I similar to my mom’s Welsh okay I remember the first time I went to Millennium yeah and I sat there and I was like w yeah yeah Millennium this is kind of part of me you know what I mean like cool I haven’t grown up there but it’s part of me um yeah that’s awesome like imagine how cool that would have been yeah yeah awesome awesome Brena your brother plays rugby over the northern hemispher now what’s it like to be able to connect with him and I guess been able to having him in the same team it must be must be nice to get some family next year again and play brother again yeah it’s um it’s pretty special it’s like um playing playing rugby with Jimmy has always been you know something that I’ve I’ve cherished we did it at Harbor a little bit um and it’s just something that we like always wanted to do again and and to have the opportunity to have him down at Chiefs um something that you know I was really excited about and then he he put pin of paper and signed last year and you know had to keep it quiet and then when it came out man I was over the moon you know just to be able to share just that with everyone and now to the thought of sharing the field with him he’s got a lot of work to do we’ve got a lot of good tight head props but um you know if he puts his head down and works hard he’ll get there and and uh hopefully we’ll be able to share the field together so that would be really special so were you on the recruitment drive like Bren was on the recruitment drive for you um he he was he was jumping at the opportunity he was in champ rugby uh there was a few teams that tried to pursue him um for the collapse of uh was and wer and then um uh that that went when the clubs went uh they picked up some more experienced guys uh for you know similar price so it was a no-brainer for them um for the other clubs and yeah he he jumped at the opportunity to come down to ex as soon as he got the the call from Rob that must be pretty cool yeah sick man sick yeah yeah and you share the Summers and do all those kind of things together yeah know yeah we can uh yeah well don’t want to spend too much time I don’t want to overdo it yeah did he have to sleep on your couch and stuff when he arrived or uh he he stayed at my house for a little bit and then he’s got his own place now with W clock but yeah he’s he’s at my pad while I was over here for yeah had him doing the dishes and earning his s sort the house out for me m The Lawns plant some new seed for me make sure it’s looking good when I come back plant some new seed yeah oh the lawn turned turned bad uh just before I left so yeah he’s he’s sorting it out for me that’s a deal yeah hell a deal get that R into his car cont oh that’s awesome um so what when you look forward to the rest of the year you got the All Blacks again at the end of the year what do you think you’ve learned from this experience here as a team as an individual that will put you in a good place to reverse the result come November yeah I think well take away the experi take away the experience of of playing the All Blacks I think um it was the first time for a lot of boys um so that nerves out of the way now I think we learned a little bit about what Razer wants wants to bring with the team um but I think we just learned you know world class teams like there and we it’s not something we it’s not like it’s something knew that we learned um we knew that it had to be 80-minute performances you you had to uh keep your penalty count low and you couldn’t let them into the game um so I think I think we’ve just learn we’ve just we just solidified that that sort of knowing that um and that’s what we just got to it’s about execution now um for us as a team I think we’ve got all the all the fundamentals and and all the skill sets there to to beat a team like that but just case of doing it now I’m just going to say lastly I think um because we talked around a lot with your L speed pressure the defense that you guys have had and it’s not just the english team but I think it’s World rugby how long has it taken you guys to really get a grasp of or you guys are you guys still learning around there because you you’ve only just implemented that in a short amount of time but it’s been really really good and put the All Blacks under a lot of pressure yeah it it came it came in in Six Nations um we made pretty big strides uh in that time um but yeah constantly learning constantly trying to improve and um I think we still got uh I think all of our stats are are pretty up there um don’t I don’t know them off the top of my head but think think we’re pretty pretty much uh leading the world and uh dominant tackles and um like skill sets under pressure and stuff like that so um we’re we’re topping that but we we still know there’s growth and there’s more in us um and like I said you know discipline that’s that’s mainly mainly uh on defense we’re we’re leaking some penalties there so you know there constant growth in us um and yeah we’ll be making sure that’s right come November so when you’re flying out of the line what are the key things you have to be thinking about as far as connecting and making sure that you don’t break the system um well it’s to put it pretty simple you’re um you’re protecting your inside shoulder next next man on your inside and and make sure you you drop your height so you’re not getting a card cuz you’re at full you’re at full Sprint they’re at full Sprint it’s um you know a velocity collision and you got to Split Second to drop your height to um to match the new laws otherwise you’re taking someone’s head off which no one wants we definitely don’t want um cuz you know you’re you’re not doing something right by the game if you do that and you’re you’re taking yourself out of the game so yeah I imagine the fitness levels have to go up to be able to execute that at some point have they raised the bar as far as that’s concerned yeah I think I think for the playing group they’ve they’ve like we’re running further than uh England ever have before I think some of the boys in in games in these last two games have hit new targets I think sady might have hit a new Target um in terms of running meters and high velocity running meters um and I think few other boys have as well so yeah it’s definitely a demand but you know we got good trainers uh behind us that sort all that out the Collision area Ethan mate we talk around a lot and especially with the Northern Hemisphere teams just how physical that kind of breakdown and I guess the the dominance and whether it’s dominant collisions on defensive side or the attacking side collisions is there anything that because you’ve been in New Zealand the cision area that you guys do over the northern hemisphere is it is there three or four trainings a week that you’re doing that or is it just it’s just a part and parcel of I guess Northern Hemisphere rugby no I think it’s just little bits often it’s like anything you want to get good at um hallways you know you just keep keep doing little amounts of it all the time and and um some some of the boys it’s different some of them have to break it down a little bit more maybe work on your footwork into contact or your actual contact might need U your timing on your actual contact but yeah it’s just all the boys are pretty committed to to um to winning collisions and I think that’s that’s probably the difference yeah and so it’s just that commitment to the cause yeah literally yeah and does ex run a similar system or do you change no we have the exact same system so I’m pretty handy for for myself um Manny and sady yeah yeah and and do do other teams run similar is it kind of the way that all England teams are doing it now uh no other other teams uh other teams do have bits and bits of it but uh not not a full Hammer defense no yeah yeah no yeah well mate tell us about the next five weeks speech time what else is it yeah going to go catch up with old mate Leicester uh in South France so that’ll be nice that’s fuku yeah fuku used to Flat with him and my my days at the Crusaders so going to go catch up with him and his his lovely partner they just got a new dog go see them and then uh chill out and enjoy the Southwest um go see cornall do a bit of Deon and might actually grab a camper do that with the kids that’ll be a bit of fun yeah nice bit of CHA nice do the English thing we a singlet and get super of course yeah could be done yeah naturally awesome hey thanks very much for your time no not a problem cheers H good on you brother now of course there was another ginormous game on the weekend apart from England New Zealand the spring box versus Ireland incredible the way it went Island up early the spring box just driving home in the second half you thought they’re going to run away with it and then suddenly the script changes out of nowhere and Ireland make their way home Bren with a onepoint win froley had ice in his veins unbelievable those drop goals H how can a player with six tests behind him have that kind of call in a situation like that it comes down to a skill set I think it’s his it’s his bre and but in terms that he must be do a lot of practice and it must be feeling he must feel real confident doing that because I think to have two of those kicks under immense pressure in that seven minute Mark to get that first drop goal and then to be able to win in the 80th minute um they would have talked around the solution probably thinking that that was going to be an option to go to the the drop goal or even trying to man manipulate the refi for a penalty but look to be able to get that job done and win a win a game and in South Africa which was a waren attrition Ross I really thought like both teams had their had their moments like Island started really well getting off to really fly flying start I think their ATT teack initiative that they’ve had the last two weeks that they’ve been able to we’ll touch on it a little bit later but the way that they’re I guess revolutionizing the game again with their phase play attack and then you look on the other side with with the said Africans they were able to claw themselves back it was 166 after 38 minutes and you have to think that IA were in control but they all discipline errors and then you know seven days later hondre palard ends up getting eight penalties and being able to score 25 I think was it 25 or 20 20 OD points due to Ill discipline so was a war of attrition and to be honest it shows why they are number one and two in the world that there isn’t that much between them but you know two drop goals that were’re able to get job done and if you’re South Africa you’re probably a little bit gutter that you you should have won that game they missed a lot of opportunities I think after 50 minutes they missed five opportunities where they’re able to try and score points and execution side of it they weren’t be able to get be able to score those points so even after all that Ross they still had the chance to win it and then Ireland for that 10-minute um spam were able to get you know two drop goals to win that match fory gets the accolades but I mean there are 14 men that help them get into that situation what’s the key to setting up for a drop goal how does the team need to do that precisely to allow him the kind of time that he had on the ball to get that off oh I think it all starts with with a good go go forward carry ball like you’ve got to be able to be on the front foot and when I actually saw them looking at it I was like well they’re only two or three phases and he’s already he’s already pulling pulling trigger around it but they must have felt that he was in the position it’s a comfortable position of the field that that he felt that he was going to do it actually wasn’t that far off the previous one where he was meterage wise and I think JIS and Cy if he was able to stay on his feet I think he probably puts a little bit more pressure on but there was a little bit after the game ran out of obstruction or been able to get in the rad but he just slipped so it gave fry that opportunity to be able to go for that drop goal with no pressure around him so but they would have talked around that thinking that there is going to be a drop goal here if you if you feel you’re in the right position get good go for carry he’s in that pocket and then really it just comes down execution and he was fortunate enough to be able to do that twice in some pretty um trying I guess part of trying part of the game what changed in that last 10 minutes to get the box in a position where they were no longer going to win that game because they were rolling over them for 25 minutes that second half good pleasing thing was actually their kick in behind to be able to put themselves in the position to get that line out like when I saw that kick and I was like not a lot of time s can keep that ball in play then they were able to just I guess have a minute to slow down the game three or four RS and then kick it out but the fact that it was pinpoint in the position of the ball James L was able to tackle them and then got them into position to be able to be able to get it so it’s a matter of margins Ross and there were just two moments where they got themselves in a position to set up for a drop goal and really in the last 10 minutes when was all there to be played for those two drop goals were the winning of the game and speaking of that kick jiba has been pretty big on the relevance of that kick but also the Innovation that Ireland have shown their pod play in this series and how it’s slightly changed the game and the spring box defense one area of the old blacks may be looking at and this has happened twice is the little pod play and I’m interested your thoughts on the spring last week it was um the Irish hooker that went through so when we got the Pod you’ve got your middleman you’ve got your tip you got your inside and then you’ve normally got a back out the out of the back last week they had um their hooker out the back and instead of that tip line coming on that sharp down line he almost stays out and that hooker came through the middle and split that P and and they ended up scoring from that try again Conor Murray’s try and this t uh not a for on this occasion back went through the middle set up the try um for for Conor Murray so clearly the sou afcan defense has been immaculate it’s big reason they won the World Cup but it definitely is an element where the old blacks can look to maybe bring that little bit of a split pay cuz the deception of it is quite unique they have they have someone going out the back to draw that defense and then this next person pops up and splits the the running pod um so I’d love to see New Zealand look at that I’m sure South Africa are up to it but what it does do if even if they do it and they defend it it’s making that defense think so if the defense is thinking they may tighten and it may create space on the outside um for when the orits to South Africa getting ahead of myself I know but a very very very nice move from Ireland that got rewarded with seven points five definite seven points um after the conversion uh two weeks in a row so the second time that it work it m South Africa would have reviewed that try the week before um to break them down again in the second Test shows that there is just a I suppose a glimmer of hope or a slight weakness in that South African defense now I’ve had a question come through from BC Canada kiwi lives over there called Ed Pie Ed’s got a very good question about the innovation in and around the Pod play and why New Zealand doesn’t appear to be doing the same kind of things that we’re seeing from Ireland he says why are the backline attacking formations not as complex as other countries in the world teams like Ireland and France play multiple phases of complex attacking lines with varied attacking waves to break down Russ defenses our attack seems to be limited to a screen pass and a wide ball is this tactic because of the skill sets of players like McKenzie and Yan or are we trying to keep it simple to stretch defenses BR well I think if you’re looking at Ireland in particular it’s just it’s a trend that they must have been working on or seing with sou or it’s just an EV evolution of their game I think for a long period of time their face play shap and their ball their their forward Runners to be able to be nice and square tip pass and all eight players are able to be able to do that and most of the world runs that kind of shape where you’ve got the tip ball out the back or the inside Ball but with the last two tries that they’ve scored I think Conor Murray scored on both of them one one was actually off 10 and then one was off nine the guy that has the ball in the middle of of the Pod is doing a really good job to be able to fix that one person in front of him so what that does is you’ve got if you’ve got three attackers and you’ve got three Defenders if the guy that’s getting the ball in the middle is square and can sit down that person then it’s really a one-on-one tackle inside or outside so the tip ball ends up being a one-on-one at that first guy square and the pretty much the same for the insort it’s all going to be a one-on-one tackle so if you’ve got a guy that’s coming out the back then that third Defender who’s picking up the tip wall has to think about that out the back option which we saw in the previous weeks what them be able to go through but what I liked on the weekend was that they’re able to just manipulate that short guy and then were’re able to go inside inside knowing that the two guys inside and outside were fixed on his person so it almost just ends up being there a big space which we’ve seen with on the weekend and the one previously with Conor Murray’s try last week so it’s a trend that they must be working on Within their shape they’ve had the same shape before that you know for 3 to four years but innovating and evolving and that’s where Island are at the moment I guess it’s something the All Blacks or World rugby you can look in around those pod systems because everyone everybody’s pretty much the same so I think if you’re the if you’re the old blacks you’re looking at right getting those big forwards to be ask questions and to be able to sit them down you can get guys you know you get a s re in there you can get a Caleb Clark that’s going to be in and around there you can get a a loose forward that’s in there who’s quite athletic to be able to get to those spaces so yeah it’ll be something that I think that coaching group for the All Blacks would be looking at because Island and you know to be able to I guess not just break but being able to score off those opportunities of that new face play sh was very impressive to see during the series and if you look at England they found it pretty predictable I think the way that New Zealand was attacking when they were going to the Pod going out the back there was so much pressure on the pass passes were going asay from second five Center you know it seemed pretty obvious why is it so obvious to the opposition teams and they’re putting the pressure on themselves if you a look at Mark’s second try when Damen McKenzie is able to just draw and pass sit down the prop and then get it to Bow and Barett when we’re able to get to the edge jipper says it all the time you’ve got to be able to go through them first you’ve got to be able to get that English defense going backwards so they’re not set and on their front foot and being able to go really really hard Ethan Ethan talked about it been able to I guess get into their line speed pressure being able to put teams under pressure and so when you see like there with Bowden and ction as well that’s the only way you can be able to get around them or if you saw Marcus Smith on the weekend he did the attacking kicks to be able to get it them we saw it in the the South African series Crowley did that a lot in that series and even um on the weekend as well with Australia if they’re inside that 15 meter Zone and you you you know that that’s going to come you’ve either got to have that skill set to get that ball away which we weren’t probably able to do in that first half or you go to contestable your attacking kicks game now there was one in particular where Damen McKenzie kicked it out to Civ Reese but Civ Reese it was just the kick just wasn’t on so we weren’t able to score off that but that’s the kind of solutions where you find if you can’t get that ball away with your execution you’ve got to go to the contestable kicks or being on top of them and going through them which we saw in their markia second try just going back to the spring box Island we digressed there slightly the spring box we’ve also got a question through from mg kiwi on YouTube now he says there’s a lot of talk about the box game ET Etc but do you see them having issues going forward when you consider the age of their team most of the back around 32 to 34 now jipper touched on this off air last week what do you think do you think that there is now a chance for the Box really to move forward they they can’t stay with that same group all the way through to the next World Cup for those older guys it’s going to take a year bye or a two-year cycle right so if you’re in that kind of high end of you know the 33 34 35 that kind of range then I think it’s a it’s a yearby year basis and if you’re still playing well then you pick them but I think at the same time Russy have to be able to think about for the future if these guys aren’t going to be up to it sorry not up to it but they just get a little bit older in the kind of consistency that they have had just drops or continues to keep getting worse over the years then you’ve got to bring some new some new blood in so you’d have to think Ross that within the next two years we’re going to see the old Brigade there but some guys are going to be given opportunities within the next two to three years of test matches against the All Blacks or a northern hemisphere tour where they’re going to start building their depth it’s like what we’re seeing in New Zealand at the moment we have seen 36 37 year olds involved in really solid World Cup performances like Brad Thorne is a good example then you think about the 2003 World Cup with England there were plenty of old guys you’re not past it when you’re in your mid-30s especially as a forward you’re not but I think you you’ve got to take that approach around you know three years is a long way if the World Cup was like right now or two you know 18 months away then I think it’s a little bit easier to be able to get those guys through to the line but as players at that age three years is a long time an international footy that’s not just playing for the sou the spring BS they’re over in the northern hemisphere now most of them some of there are in Japan but if you’re playing a northern hemisphere it’s a lot of rugby that you’re putting your body through so they’ll have an approach around having though that experienced group and especially for the next two years span you’d have to think they will be there but I think it’ll be sprinkling with this young development and some some guys that are a little bit younger will be given opportunities over the next three years fair enough now here’s the big clickbait question who is number one in the world after seeing them split those two test matches for me I’m calling it first equal box probably number one because they hold that World Cup but if you’re looking at this year and those test matches I don’t think you can easily Define which team is the best team in the world the fact South Africa won that World Cup last year um you can’t take that away and you cannot take away Ireland losing at that quarterfinal stage so I think the spring box being at 1-1 and I actually think that the spring box if they look back at the second test match they probably should have won this game with how many opportunities they had in that first half so it’s not like I don’t think Ireland took it from them they played well enough to be able to get that job done but I think the South Africans lost the second test match compared to when in the very wi in the first one so at the moment that World Cup’s got to be able to hold for something and so I’m going to have yeah I’m going to have South Africa first still with 1-1 winning that World Cup and isand you know sitting in second EV Wales uh what you’ve seen from the Aussies the way that they took that game but probably had some issues on his way through it as well do you feel like they’re in a good position for the rugby Championship or do you think that is’s a long way to go they’re still a bit to go but Ross you got to think about where they were like at the end of that world cup having no confidence I think they’re on a on a losing run with with Eddie Jones there so if you talk around building confidence just being able to get wins and sometimes it looks ugly the game on the weekend as well it was very very wet and they were able to get the job done so and I think at any time when you’re not in a winning team the confidence being built I know it’s two test matches and it’s only two wins but what that’s going to be doing for that group knowing that they’re going to interrog Championship with a bit of confidence and know you know what we’ve only been here for a short time Joe Smith they’re going to continue to keep getting better with the amount of detail that’s going to be layer in throughout this regular championship in next year and this year at the end end of this year sorry so the only area that I think you look on the weekend is their line out Mall their line out moreall defense if you’re the All Blacks or you’re the South Africans you know that you’re going to be going to that line out moreall so the work that’s going to have to be done around this set piece not only at lineup but scrum time as well the South Africans are very strong at that scrum pen on the weekend they were very dominant again the to be dominant in this English Series so that set piece is going to be really big but they’ve made some growth in in their areas in a lot of areas and I think for this to get two- n and to be able to get some confidence they’re still away they’re still a little bit off but look better than they were probably six to 12 months ago un need Jones and Wales because Wales have also appeared to be in a pretty dire situation over the last couple of years do you feel like Warren Gatland is making some movement forward I think so like they’re just a young team there’s so many new faces in that group and and sometimes you’ve got to go through a b or fire learning at you on the run and so that might have to be a detriment of winning test matches in this early part with hopefully the notion or going to a World Cup in three times and this group has been able to play for three years to be able to get to win the World Cup or be more competitive in the Six Nations or Northern Hemisphere tour at the end of the year so these guys are all new they were able to still you know they give themselves a chance to win this game I think if Dan gonu doesn’t score that try which I don’t think we’ve seen that ever in the last two test matches been able to score tries off of chases like we saw with Colby last week and really that gave him a a buffer you know the game was was at 2821 and then dangun gets that in the 66th minute to be able to get that that those points out to a 12-point lead so they still came back they made it 33-28 with a charge down play and effort play to be able to get that try through dire but you know the South Africa sorry the Australians were able to hold on and been able to I guess have that that care element and being able to get the job done and tight and a pretty tight tight test match so that’s enough about the blocks I’m not sure if if you notice but the black ferns put on 62 nil against the Woos on the weekend an absolutely outstanding performance they hit the ground running and what can you say about baharo like she just never stopped scoring tries I think she’s got like 13 and 10 tests or something she’s amazing so incredibly fast but the co- captain of that team who unfortunately wasn’t playing in that game because she’s getting over an ankle injury has joined us now Kennedy Simon thank you very much for joining us hey team thank you for having me and congratul you’ve resigned with New Zealand Rugby until 2028 that is a longterm deal yes it is um but I’m honestly so happy and grateful um it’s you know the dream job I yeah it’s hard to Fathom that you know this is my future for the next we while but um yeah my next um steps are just to make sure that I’m creating a great legacy and you know to earn the jersey for as long as possible 2028 very very uh I guess long contract to have were you tempted at all with the NRL I guess the girls are making little bit transition and playing playing the trade over there did you ever think about maybe doing a sabatical and and testing yourself in those in those areas no that’s not been on my um radar you know i’ I’m contracted with the black FS um and that’s always just been my goal uh and you know I’m happy here I Rugby’s um saved me really uh and I’ve made loads of lifelong friends and um yeah this is what I want to do uh my best friend Shay Robins Rey she plays for the camera Raider so I I understand you know the the luxuries in that Arena but yeah this is where I want to be what do you mean by rugby saved you um you know as a kid I sort of I grew up with my grandparents I lost my grandmother and then um yeah I played netball but wasn’t really a passion of mine my mom sort of forced me to do that and if it weren’t for the people around me so like my best friends taking me to trainings and um you know rugby just being my Escape then yeah life wouldn’t be this good you know you’re looking at at post the World Cup and I think the the transition that I think you girls have gone through the through winning that Rugby World Cup and going against England later in this September what are some of the trends that you have been working out you’re a tech and kicking game syvia brunt I thought on the weekend you know been able to score tries off off kicks has been a big um I guess Improvement within your girls um girls this year and also the line out M’s been able to score two tries at the back end of the game those are the areas that you’re really trying to work on knowing this English side is very dominant in the kind of run out more as well and defensively as well yeah I think for uh you know since the last World Cup and being with Wayne Smith he introduced us to a lot of different language different language and um versions of the game you know I think we all talk about playing on top but we want to expand that and you know make sure we’re playing in the right areas of the field um and we want to show dominance but showing dominance in the right um at the right times and yeah the girls kicking game on the weekend was you know just a small glimpse of what we’re capable the girls are capable of and um so yeah and seeing those driving malls like we’ve been working a lot um off field on field and just seeing those connections really pay off is yeah it’s I’m very proud just thinking about you signing on to 2028 and not taking a sabatical you can’t really afford to take a sabatical when you got m 2 Lea say K on Baker Lucy Jenkins you can’t walk away from this and expect your position to be there if you return right like you got to stay in the mix yeah you’re exactly right I was you know I was watching the game thinking man got a lot of work to do you know that yeah is just amazing and you know she’s an even better person um so yeah I’ve got we’ve we’ve all got our work cut out for us um and then there’s also Mia Anderson who’s um you know knocking on the door as well so yeah that’s you know great for um New Zealand Rugby well women’s rugby that we’ve got so many phenomenal um loose fors England doubled down in the Six Nations that year didn’t they they if anything got better which is hard to Fathom really the way that their dominance can continue uh you’ve got a game against them on September 15 firstly your ankle you’re going to be in a good position to play in that game with your ankle yeah I’m healthy I’m I’m 100% healthy now so it’s just going to be about you know getting back in triing and earning earning you know a spot yeah and then secondly twicken them that’s a huge moment for you guys yeah that’s going to be huge um I think I’m not too sure actually how many people have played it and tooken him so um you know it’s going to be an experience for everyone that gets to make go on that tour um yeah my experience in England is their fans are passionate really um vocal um you know I remember coming off the last time we played over there which wasn’t a very good time in you know my career but I came off the field and I could hear you know just people talking down the black Jersey which you know it cut deep so I hold on to that that’s that’s personal to me so we’ve got to go over there you can hold a grudge huh yeah very good but it’s also a big game in the setup for the wxv you know considering how the pack four didn’t go to plan this game is absolutely vital in making sure that you guys are in the right spot and have an idea about where you are heading into wxv it’s nice that we will have a bit of time together um you you know again to work on those connections make sure that we’re all seeing you know the right pictures but to be able to do that you know obviously the girls played against Aussie had a really dominant performance um you know Aussie and England different sides so need to make sure we you know prepared for a really competitive game and um going into the wxv making sure you know we also show some super physical superiority yeah fair enough hey well thank you very much for your time Kennedy we really appreciate you coming on the show and thank you for signing on with new on Rugby for another four years thank you thank you for having me Bren now next week we got your mate Richie morer on the show that should be a bit of fun yep we do we can we can see if we can get him back for the old blacks we see if we can get it out of him so we see have him on he’s going to be getting the full court press by the sounds of it from his old mate inside High L speed pressure like English mate we be put him under his pressure seeing can B A footwork at the line and can evade these questions well thanks once again Bren so thank you very much for joining us once again of course send us an email Al orot sky. co.nz or put a comment in the YouTube comment section we’ll get to as many as we can and if we can’t get to it next week you might see your question in the weeks to come after that please continue to tune in to the show on Sky platforms on rugly passers platforms We Appreciate You tuning in thank you to the team help us together m [Music] [Applause] [Music]