Minicamp Catch Up | Rookie QB updates, position changes, injuries and holdouts

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Ryan Wilson and Rick Spielman sift through the reports coming out of minicamp to find out how all the rookie QBs are REALLY doing. Plus injury updates, position changes, holdouts and much more.

Intro (0:00)
Caleb Williams Camp Report (7:00)
Rome Odunze’s Fantasy Flex (13:46)
Last Years Minicamp QB Evals (23:30)
Patriots Worried About Maye Picks? (22:17)
J.J. McCarthy sits behind Sam Darnold (24:49)
Jayden Daniels and Luke McCaffrey in EARLY (27:45)
Bo Nix Pushes Downfield (30:50)
Rams Attempted Trade Ups (37:04)
Anthony Richardson Shoulder Update (40:31)
Kamari Lassiter Impresses Texans (41:45)
Aaron Rodgers Absence Meaningful? (45:03)
Changing Positions (47:35)
Holdouts (52:18)

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today on with the first pick we’ll check in on the rookie QB class now that OTAs and mini camps are a wrap by the way Rick training camp starting less than a month for some teams we’ll also hit on some headlines from around the league and maybe even answer a mailback question we’ll see I’m Ryan Wilson that’s Rick Spielman this is episode 164 and Rick before we get going let’s see if the old countdown board works how many days until the 2025 NFL draft well I’ve been it’s juneth so we’re celebrating a holiday today and there are Ryan if you didn’t know this and Harry the producer didn’t know this there are 309 days left until the 2025 NFL draft and we haven’t even started summer scouting school yet so I’m anxious to get started on that because that clock is ticking uh be careful what you asked for because that’s it coming so uh a little preview about that that’ll come on the Monday of July 4th week Rick and I we’ll be joined by Mike rener new CBS higher uh we’ll talk quarterbacks there and another sneak peek we’ll each come up with our top 10 come together separate do top 10 come together and then we’ll compare our top 10 I’m sure Rick you won’t have any comments on those none none whatsoever I’m just I’ll just be go back to my rle Scout in the corner Scout in the corner by the way if you missed it great great episode last week we were joined by Rick’s brother Chris Felman the Ohio State great the liance great and and he’s currently in Detroit’s front office and he played a huge role in shaping that franchise and he talked about all that and then some Rick it was one of our most popular episodes ever non-m draft episodes it’s it’s number one and uh Debo who is broken up with us and refuses to take our calls but he will answer the occasional email told me 13,000 hours people watched that that episode in the span of six days gez if my wife and his wife knew that they’d be like why why yeah what are they getting uh so yeah no when we get together we do have a lot of fun and in the past when he was when I was in the front office and he was in the media uh I always took some time to do shows with him especially in June when there’s nothing really going on but we can rely that’s when blood is thicker than water they say and you can rely on your family members to come to the rescue during the off times of the NFL season yeah Lions fans were incredibly excited I was looking around to see what folks were saying I saw one Lions fan in the comments that he watched the show two times already he was so excited about the because I guess Chris I didn’t know this and you you probably knew this because he’s your brother but he doesn’t talk a lot to the media so fans don’t have a real idea right so they have no real sense for what’s going on behind the scenes and it was like he just opened up uh the cookie Char and there was all you could eat cookie Buffet so apparently Lions fans didn’t know what villain meant so he he sort of explained that and that was a big that was a headline for some for some um Lions blogs so that was interesting and of course um people were blown away that in your line of work and you know this he had no interest in in being the top dog I want to make sure this this organization gets to where it needs to go and that certainly makes things easier for everybody else when you know that someone’s not coming for your job because you’ve seen organizations where you hire somebody and it’s all Game of Thrones time so uh none of yeah but if that’s happening and then you’ve hired the wrong person right and yeah like he talked about uh what Dan Campbell does I always try to apply this as well I want to hire people that are good enough to take over my job and but also do not have an ego and it’s not a game of thrones right all they’re interested in we’re all have one common goal and that’s try to win a championship and we can put a group of people together like that that are very talented but yet their ego is put aside and their goal is the same as your goal and one common goal is to win a championship regardless of your role in that organization that’s the most important thing and that’s why the Detroit Lions and when they put Brad Holmes and Dan Campbell together have had the success that they have but don’t forget I think the whole key coming out of this was Sheila Ford hemp and what she’s done since she’s taken over as the steart of that organization yeah no so it’s a great listen um and I encourage people to check that out in the old podcast feed if you haven’t yet or go rewatch it like some of the Lions fans did one of the things that I found funny is Rick and I I told uh told my wife this she’s like oh my God I can’t but that doesn’t even make sense uh one blog post thought that you were Chris’s dad tell Chris that someone said Rick’s Rick’s Spielman Chris’s father and Ryan Wilson had uh someone called referred to me as Ryan Williams so uh they got the Chris bman part right that’s all that matters look like his dad are you kidding me I look way younger than he does even though he’s younger brother he had the Hat on so that he he P he did the Ryan Wilson smart thing you got to cover up the Dome and uh had a Lipper in so anyway that was awesome thanks for setting that up Rick I’m glad that Chris owed you a couple because that worked out well for us learned a lot checked out on the old podcast feed all right just me and you today the old band’s back together just going to talk a little I mean it’s the middle of June everyone’s gone home do you give a speech to the team or do you have the coaches do it about stay out of trouble no coach Coes do that that’s their responsibility uh I know that they have these next four to five weeks off whatever depending on when they report back to training camp but the biggest part is that just make smart decisions we’ve gotten this far right you’re going to be off yeah be mature as as you said you’re going to make decisions in life make sure you’re making the right ones because not only you’re representing the team but you’re representing yourself too and and as much as a general manager tries to get away during the summertime and take these couple weeks off you just always have your phone by your side because you never know and every day please can I have one day where I don’t have to deal with anything related to football in the um I don’t know if they’re rare but in the moments where you miss being in the league and then you find yourself out on the golf course to the pickleball court not having to answer phones does that bring you back to why you’re retired yeah but I still have to answer my wife’s calls yeah that’s different though yeah you even kindly you’ll text me and say I’m I’m I’m crushing some old man in golf I’ll call you back so at least you you do that but it’s not like life or death no no it’s it’s different problems but yeah a lot easier called rich people problems Rick well you have rich people problems I’m just a guy yeah I’m just a scout in the corner here just I didn’t try to try to put two nickels together to make a dime every now and then that’s right that’s that’s right all right let’s talk a little football here let’s start in Chicago where I would imagine Ryan poles is extremely excited as a general manager that had a big hand of putting this team together especially given where they were even a year ago they had the franchise quarterback and Caleb Williams he’s had his up and downs in many Camp and OTAs I would imagine I care very little would you do you also care very little about the mistakes he’s making at this point because that’s sort of what you want to see yeah that’s what you want to see right because a lot of times it’s the first time he quarterbacks are getting in a huddle it’s the first time they have to spit out language on calling a play most of the time when they’re coming out of college all it is is hand singles are looking over to the sideline now then some of these calls can be very lengthy and you have to be able to pronounce what the hell your the play is so everybody in the Huddle could understand it’s not only just calling uh the pass play let’s say or the Run play you’re calling out the protection you’re calling out the formation you’re calling out the Motions uh so there is a lot to learn and a lot to learn how to communicate that to people in a huddle then you get up there now you got a Cadence that you got to worry about and it is is it on one is it on two is it a hard count and then after that then you got to execute the play and learning the offensive Playbook and it sounded like they’re feeding him with a fire hose right now wanted to get the whole offense in during this OTAs and by doing that you can see what he can handle and what he can’t handle and how much will he be able to retain once he gets away for a little bit when you come back and report to that training camp but on top of all that then you got defenses NFL defenses that are doing crazy things on the defensive side of the ball with different disguises with different Blitz packages where pressures are coming from so it is overwhelming sometimes for any young rookie quarterback coming in compared to what they had to deal with in college the other thing is and you talked about this a lot last year they sort of did the fire hose thing with CJ Stout and Houston and then they dialed it back a little bit so I think you you you start off with like high level calculus and then you dial it back to algebra if you need to but you see how far down that road you could get before maybe you feel a little overwhelmed because we talked in the preseason about how J looked like a rookie and I think week one was the Baltimore game is that right I think yeah whatever his week one game is he he struggled a little bit and then Bobby slowick and CJ got on the same page and then it started to click yeah well they dialed back the protections this made it more simple for him to get the pre-nap reads and then more simple for him if player a ain’t open float to player B yeah one two that’s it you don’t have to go through this side of the field that side of the field and the more they get reput reput reputations at it the better they get at it so uh but the only way you’re going to learn is to throw them out there especially during these OTAs at mini camps and just give them as much as you can give them to see what they can retain to see what they learn they get this all on tape so when you go and you have these meetings after practice and you’re reviewing the film then you can see hey Caleb look at where you looked at it should have been over to this side because the safety rotated down on the left side go to the right so all the things that they didn’t have to do in college or as much in college and like I said it’s learning a whole new language it and the whole offense is learning a new offense because they have a new offensive coordinator as well so that’s going and not only is he learning but everybody else is learning as well so Terry and Arnold Jackson pow Johnson were two your favorite interviews at the combine is Caleb he’s top five probably I think JJ McCarthy’s probably up there I thought Caleb was engaging Caleb was yeah I think people whatever impression they have of him but when you get with him face to face and you actually sit down and talk with them uh I think he surprises people because they have an impression or some kind of predetermined this is who he is and then when you sit down and talk with him it’s something totally different uh than what you expected yeah I’m asking that because obviously when you talk to these guys as a GM you’re spending more than five minutes with him typically maybe sometimes not but he was smarter than I thought and again that’s just based on what we see on television social media I don’t I didn’t think he was an idiot but he came across as as genuine and I thought he he was really sharp and I was going to ask you your first impressions when you meet players have you ever been so surprised that you were wrong about about a player whether good or bad or typically do you have a good sense for who a player is based on that sort of interaction uh you kind of have a background and uh and you have all this information on a player so you kind of expect what’s coming into your room but I always try to and you you’ve been around me for a couple years now and you know how I screw around before they even come up on stage is to get them to loosen up I just want to know you as a person I don’t want this rehearsed robot uh as you prepared for these interviews I want to get to know you just as a person so sometimes when you can screw around and me with a bad dad joke or something here or there trying to tear Jackson P Johnson’s ACL with a chest bump yeah well that’s his fault he should have had a lower base but those are the things yeah you get their guard down and get to know him his people you’re good at that I will say have you tried that toward towards me yet or not yet you no no no no probably won’t either by the way uh for people listening and watching how do you think I I my wife married me I that took me about six months to break through that wall you had to turn on the the Spielman charm on that one for long term well I guess the first time I met her and told her I was going to marrier that’s not an opening line that you want to start out with oh you came out hot like with that I I came out out the gate strong and that what year in college was that sophomore year in college oh oh you knew yeah this Friday coming up our third 37th wedding holy crap how about that congratulations yeah and I’m not uh actually on a golf trip so that was something that I did not see coming I forgot I didn’t put the two and two together still got it okay congratulations on 37 years that’s if we can get over the 40-year hump then I think I’m in a clear I don’t know we’ll see we’ll cross that bridge when we get to a r don’t count those chickens just yet congratulations though 37 that’s a big uh I’ll be 37 in a couple years as far as you know all right let’s talk about uh we’re gonna take a break here in a second but first let’s talk about uh radun the other first- round pick and here’s something I want to mention Rick because this is I first I want to ask you this how would you react now in this day and age where every team has their their video unit and they’re putting stuff on social media and YouTube and all other stuff and I know you were had your hand in that when you were at Minnesota later because it wasn’t the thing earlier but uh the Bears put out or maybe it was on um they allowed it to be released I’m sure it’s something to do with but Roku had a show called NFL draft to pick his in and there’s a clip of Ryan poles calling Terry fno the the Falcons GM the uh Bears took Roman Dunes at nine the Falcons picked at eight they obviously took Michael penx Jr but Ryan poles called Terry fno and asked him hey what do you think about letting me trade up one spot I’ll give you a fourth round pick that’s what the Bears and the Eagles had done last year in the 910 range because the Eagles came we got Jaylen Carter and the Bears moved down for for one spot to get Darnell Darnell right they’re starting right tackle Terry said no we’re good they end up taking Michael penx Jr but he was so concerned Ryan poles was about losing that on Roman dunesday for another team coming up to eight I don’t think he thought the Falcons were going to do it but would you and he said his assistant GM Ian Cunningham actually talked him out of it just said say the course I thought it was interesting for for a couple reasons one is that if your board set your board set so why do you think he was wavering there or maybe that was part of the conversation we might trade up for Roman dun I think those that’s the part of the job that’s exciting because those are like game time decisions like a coach has to make or a player has to make on Sundays uh the only scenario that I can come up with well there are a lot of scenarios I can come up with but my first draft it was do we move up one spot to get Adrien Peterson or do we sit there and let him fall to us and uh we were dealing with the Washington Redskins at the time and uh I have the ownership breathing down my neck we wanted to get Adrien Peterson and I like we ended up holding and did not make that trade to swap up and uh I was like God if Adrien Peterson goes before we pick this might be my only draft with the Minnesota Vikings and it uh worked out where Adrien fell to us and uh the rest is history but that’s the exciting part I would say is that you gotta know what was that Kenny Rogers song you got no one to hold them no one to fold Y and those are the things that were the most exciting part of the job was operating on that clock on draft day trying to go up and get a player or staying or moving back hoping to still get the same player uh sometimes you win sometimes you lose uh but that’s what you do all that prep work for and go through all those scenarios before the draft do you remember who Washington took it number six before you the pocket number seven the safety from LSU luron Landry I tell you what man they made a mistake there obviously but the the picks that went before them Calvin Johnson went second to Detroit and Joe Thomas went third to Cleveland both Hall of Famers Adrian Peters will to be a Hall of Famer one day and then a few picks later Patrick Willis went to 49ers he’s a Hall of Famer darell revas at 14 went to the Jets he’s a Hall of Famer so uh you got the right one who would you have taken if if um Adrian had been drafted or would you been fired already yeah just been fired had a good run all right so I mentioned that because I thought that was that was interesting and I I appreciate the fact that they put it out there I don’t know if Ryan Po’s wanted that out there but it’s out there now and then Roman dun’s role obviously the quarterback position is the hardest to learn coming in how difficult is it to learn coming from Caleb dor runs a pretty Pro style offense how what’s the transition GNA be like for romad dun um I think it’ll be because a if he’s working in a slot because we’ve seen him in a slot we’ve seen him outside it depends on where they end up lining him up and what his role is especially when they went and got Keenan Allen when you got DJ Moore uh you got DeAndre Swift you got Cole KT so you have a bunch of different combinations so it’ll depend on what kind of role that he ends up carving out for himself and I’m sure they know how talented he is that they’re going to figure out how to get the ball in his hands and share the 12 yeah this this team I mean we’ve said it in a bunch since the draft but rarely has a quarterback maybe never come into a situation so good offensively and defensively like sometimes you get a good defense as a rookie if you’re Joe flacko coming in or Ben rothberger back in the day but this offense is is stacked too and I think the transition the expectations G be high but I think but you’re gonna have to be patient because this is a whole new offense new offensive coordinator now the defense I thought that last six or seven games when Matt eberl took over as a defensive play caller that that was a top 10 defense the way they were playing uh you know they struggled early in a season then once uh coach IU took over I thought they played extremely well on defense now some of the pieces they added um they got the corner locked up for a long-term deal so yeah you know the trade for sweat uh was a big trade for them I still think they’re missing an edge rusher on the other side uh yeah they traded back up into the fourth believe for our guy Austin Booker he’s not ready he’s a developmental guy yeah so but with his defense hopefully can carry this team until the offense starts clicking and that may take you know three four games before you really see this offense get going yeah it’s going to be fun expectations is going to be high in Chicago for the first time in in a long time all right let’s take a quick break and we come back we’re going to talk about some more of these rookies including the rookie quarterbacks and Rick going to take a stroll down memory lane too I’m going to look back and see what we were all talking about 12 months ago with the expectations for last year’s rookie class and see if we can draw any comparisons from that right after this football action continues as the grid iron is taken over by the great white North foress catch the Canadian football league on CBS Sports Network all right Rick before we talk about the Drake May and JJ McCarthy and Jaden Daniels both nixes of the world here’s what we were saying collectively as the the media a year ago um this is sort of funny this is what NFL reporter Jeremy Fowler of ESPN um said last mid June Poise is the word you hear often when you talk to people about in Carolina about Bryce young his decision- making when he walks into the field he never looks rushed Everything feels pretty smooth his energy is always good and I was told his intermediate deep ball whether on air or against the defense has been pretty good like he’s placing them in the right spots in between uh in the small space where you need to fit it in he’s been good so far and I think all that’s true but I think the the reality is you rarely hear anything bad about these quarterbacks this time of year and then when the rubber meets the road it could go any number of ways right and even when you we talked about Caleb and some of his struggles uh during this time of year but you know remember there’s no pads on there’s no one coming after you knowing you’re going to get hit um so we got a long ways to go this is as they say in shorts and t-shirt football uh but we got a long ways to go before they line up in week one yeah a year ago CJ stra was battling Davis Mills for the starting job uh Garder mchu and Anthony Richardson were battling it out Indianapolis both CJ and Anthony won the jobs Anthony got hurt early on um so just something to keep in mind if you hear all the great things and we weren’t even talking about will Levis because at one point Malik Willis had passed him on the depth chart um will got hurt during training camp and preseason so he didn’t play a lot and then of course he came on at the end and he’s going to be the starter there uh with Brian Callahan now the head coach all right Drake Mays the number three two best case jacobe Brett is the starter I think that’s been made clear how long we’ll find out but I think it’s a smart decision uh what happens if you start one and five do you rush it or do you have a plan over the summer and you stick with it I think you have a plan but if you’re one and five at what point do you say okay let’s get the rookie in there and get him going um what if he struggles with just still getting the offense under his belt and feeling comfortable well if he’s not ready to go then you just you know stay the course okay and and suck it up um but you because once you make that switch to the rookie if you bench that rookie then you’re done right it’s like that hunting dog if you go out there and he looks great running through the fields and pointing and doing everything else and then all a sudden that gun goes off and the damn dog runs it’s because he’s gun shy what’s your the hunting dog they quit on you that was gredle uh we got gredle who was a German short hair pointer out of the uh pound uh and we took her out in the fields and uh when I was living up in Ohio and she was looked great I mean she was like a show Pony running around poting she Bryce young in training camp he was Bryce young in training camp all of a sudden we shot a gun and next uh mile and a half we’re running around trying to find that dog it buried itself in a rabbit hole I did yeah so it was myself and my dad and we’re walking back to the car about a mile and a half away he’s got the damn dog on his shoulders she’s shaking like a dog crapping razor blades I got two shotguns looking like Elmer fud walking through the woods That’s all folks you know what’s funny that the dog’s a hunting dog but it it forced you to hunt her yeah oh yeah that’s all we spent we spent the next hour and a half looking for the damn dog that bared itself in a like dug its way into a rabbit hole or something all right so hopefully no hunting dogs gredle no Gretel in this draft class but your point is that you can’t rush them out there right and when they’re ready and then at some point you just say let’s if we’re going to do it he’s going to we’re going to know we’re going to go through some Growing Pains but we’re going to have to live with it you know going forward from Once We insert them um I think it’s I don’t know I’ll ask you I feel like collegewise if you had to win one game maybe you want Drake May over J.J McCarthy but I think JJ McCarthy had to start some one on their current team obious start JJ in Minnesota over Drake in New England just because of what’s around them that said I understand why you go with Sam darnold because again no rush there who you starting if you need one guy to start between to yeah well that’s a kind of a hypothetical question to you love hypotheticals though yeah I know I don’t know why you asked me these questions keep keep asking and it keeps irritating me to death that you ask these whichever one I think is the most prepared coming out of OTA whichever one’s gonna win the game are you okay with JJ on the bench yeah I think when we talked about him we thought that he was the one that maybe needed to sit both him and may were the ones that we didn’t think were ready to step in right away so I think they’re in both situations are where they have an opportunity to sit and learn now can Kevin okano make Sam darnold the baker Mayfield success story that we saw last year with Dave Canales down in Tampa and resurrect his career um but my guess is when you looked at Minnesota’s schedule and it is a brutal schedule I mean they start out with the Giants in New York then I think they have San Francisco Green Bay um I can’t you know then they go to play the Jets in London uh then they come back from London and have their bye so if they’re one and four or under 500 or around 500 they make the switch to JJ McCarthy coming out of the buy when the Detroit Lions come into uh US Bank Stadium man did you know that top of your head are you looking at the schedule no I know it off the top of my head I try to study during when we’re not doing these podcasts I try to read it as much as I can every day were you studying on the golf course when I called you yesterday I do take a break every now and then you’ve earned it uh yep you’re right at the Giants San Francisco Houston at Green Bay Jets and then they’re by Weeki and then they come out with the Detroit Lions that’s that’s a tough that’s a tough road to hoe as my grand used to say so but again we have no idea like we thought the Texans gonna win three games last year we thought Davis Mills might start no one knows uh I do know that Sam D’s gonna start the season but how long is the question yeah and and like my I’m saying that coming out of that buy and when Detroit comes into US Bank Stadium that’s going to be probably the most opportune time to start JJ McCarthy unless Sam darnold was playing like Baker Mayfield did last year and they’re in the hunt all right I’m gonna ask you one more hypothetical before we move on who starts the longest assuming everyone’s 100% healthy jaob brette in New England or Sam darn in Minnesota Jobe set there you go was that so hard all right let’s talk about a quarterback I don’t know why I keep asking these questions because they’re dumb it is it’s really irritating to be honest with you my dog my dog’s pulling your dog he’s barking upstairs he didn’t like that you call me dumb or maybe he agrees with you calling me dumb I don’t know which one let’s talk about a quarterback that is gonna start unless I miss the boat on this one Jen Daniels is qb1 correct yeah now Dan Quinn did not announce him as a starter going into training camp um but there’s no question that Jaden Daniels will be the starter uh they signed Marcus Mariota as a backup quarterback and we all know what he is he’s a backup at best uh he’s struggled every time he’s had to start new regime coming in new GM new head coach new offensive coordinator they’ll do everything they can to get him prepared to start week one so here’s something that um Dan said recently talking about Jaden he’s further along than he than you probably should be which is that’s high praise for this time of year even though you haven’t seen him take a hit because you can tell whether he knows to Playbook or not there’s no doubt that Jaden’s making unbelievable progress it was really clear that he’s put the work in and Cliff Kingsbury the off coordinator added uh he has a really high football IQ he understands protections he’s been really impressed I’ve been really impressed by that a lot of guys coming in the league that’s not an area they’re they major in in college and part of me wonders how much of that has to do with the work that he did with the virtual reality stuff that we talked about a few weeks ago uh in terms of just basically getting extra snaps when you may not get those snaps otherwise yeah anywhere you can steal reps because of the time limitations you have during the OTAs um is going to be an advantage and the one thing and just reading through the clips uh on him showing up at 5:45 every morning to come in and maybe do that virtual reality to get those extra reps to do that extra study time tells you how important it is to him on wanting to be a successful quarterback some guys think they could just come in the league and maybe just rely on their natural skills and athletic ability but the NFL is a whole different level now on what you’re going to see on defense the speed of the game and the more reps you can get whether on the field or with virtual reality or whatever you’re looking at the hopefully the better you become and these veterans Andrew Wy the offensive lineman has been impressed with the way he he’s played in the pocket Terry mclen their best player uh at the wide receiver position uh has been really impressed and and that’s what you want to see because sometimes in you know this better than I do a young player will come in and maybe they’re they’re not as vocal as perhaps they need to be or maybe they’re not put in the work whatever the case may be it feels like Jaden Daniels is doing all the right things in addition to being being really good uh on the football field it’s yet to be determined I mean is anyone saying you know we have a horse crap football team coming out OTAs in mini camp we’re packing it in uh so everybody’s encouraged everybody’s got a chance to win a Super Bowl all 32 teams are still in it right now so I don’t know why anyone or I’ve never heard anyone ever say that hey God are we bad this is going to be a rough year coming ahead well on that note let’s talk about B Nicks and Denver who again hasn’t been named a starter but it’s him Jared SDM Zack Wilson it feels like bonick is probably going to get an opportunity maybe j s him gets red hot in training camp but let’s hear some more positives about the rookie quarterbacks uh his communication has been fantastic yay so too was his accuracy so there’s that um one of the things that came out and Davis Webb was the quarterback’s coach there the former um I think Davis went to Cal the former Cal wide receiver played a little bit in the league um a lot of the completions have been the ball’s been coming out on time at the top of the drop three five steps whatever it is but he did say we don’t want to be checked down Charlie we want to be aggressive down the field uh but if it’s not there we want to keep moving forward and I think that feels like something we didn’t see from Russ Wilson last year and what Shawn Payton was looking for and then we saw the frustration sometimes on the sidelines so maybe checkdown Charlie isn’t a bad place to start get the ball out even if it’s to your checkdown and then you know what what’s the El saying you’re not going to go broke making a profit so just get one or two yards and and keep moving the chains but to your point he’s not getting hit there’s no pass rush laughing at where’ you come up with that I’ve never heard that before pretty good isn’t it yeah yeah it must have been your financial background before you got as an NFL analyst again what what did you just say uh you said I was a rich guy or something rich guy problems that’s a rich guy problem rich guy problems that’s a rich guy problem there I’m glad you like that you can use it if you want no never go broke making a profit Rick no I use my other ones okay but uh what about the notion of just getting back to basics does it matter it’s something different than what we saw with Russ and Shawn last year and just taking taking the available wide receiver instead of pushing the ball down the field yeah well that was an arranged marriage last year this was as some people have called it aan Payton arrogant pick because he see he saw something in BO Knicks that other people didn’t see so he’s going to do everything he can and to make sure that this kid has success early and a lot of that may be some short quick hitting throws just to get the ball out of his hands to limit some of the progressions and reads that he has to go through through uh so I’m anxious to see how he progresses during training camp and in some of these uh preseason games I know no one gets excited about the preseason but me and you love the preseason because we get an opportunity to first see these guys in actual game action yeah so I can overreact about how much I love Kenny picket yeah destroying the preseason uh listen if bonix wins the job and feels like he’s on that course game one at Seattle game two Pittsburgh game two at Tampa game two at New York Jets so those are and then game what’s that five at at Las Vegas with with Max Crosby and and that revamped Anthony Pierce team so he’s gonna face a lot of good defenses not to say they can’t win some of those games but it’s it’s not a not a bunch of tomato cans no no and he’s going to get tested early so I’m sure that and all these quarterbacks it seems like even the Jay and Daniels they’re not sharing reps like JJ McCarthy I don’t know how many first team reps he got how many first team reps Drake May got because they plan on starting those veteran quarterbacks early but if you’re going to play your rookie quarterback they better be getting as many reps as they possibly can with that first team and because of uh NFL PA rules you can’t can you stay after practice on your own are there rules about taking first team reps there’s no rules about taking first team reps as long as you’re on I’m sorry um taking extra first team reps outside the structure of practice well there’s rules on how many hours you can be on the field yeah and how many hours you can be in the classroom so um those are in place uh but you know you just got to make sure you stay within the roles I’ll just say that yeah we saw the Falcons just got charged I think a fifth round pick for whatever the thing was with the so Detroit got nailed too they lost an otaa day and that was more due to unnecessary contact because there should be no contact part of my job was was to make sure that during our OTAs um that if there was incidental contact that our photographer didn’t take a picture of it and post it on our website oh that’s how they find out yeah and but no the rule is is that you’ll get an email I used to get an email from the league that said hey send me these two practice days just a random check so those two practice days I’d call our video director send it to the NFL they also send it to the NFL PA they’ll go through the practice see if there’s any violations and that’s how you get nailed but it’s a random just out of the blue I’d come in on a Tuesday morning hey we need last week’s practice and so that’s like the people in our neighborhood community that hire the old-timers that are retired to drive around and see if there any yard violations just looking for stuff to to ping you on well that’s you know when you live in The High Society neighborhood that you live in and you got people making sure your yards trimmed and cut yeah well jokes on them 17-year-old cut the grass and uh I told him the other day I said Kai if uh you had one arm and one leg and were blind and this is what the yard looked like it would still look terrible this is a terrible job how about my son I had a postage stamp for a yard it took him two hours to cut because he would do like four strips and then go take a break they’re the same everyone’s kids especially boys are the same like they it it’s it’s amazing can you just St task at hand well Dad you know Susie called me so I had to go take that phone call is more important than the yard yeah yeah I can come back and do the other three strips in the next hour and then the rest of the yard uh before it gets dark I said Kai my my the neighbors think I’m the one cutting the grass and it looks like a psychopath cut it what are we doing here it’s not hard back and forth back and forth just follow the wheel lines from the mower I think the lawnmower is broken I can guarantee you the lawn mow is not broken get out there all right that’s it on B Nicks before we take a break I want to ask you about another um sort of trade that almost was on on draft day I didn’t mention earlier because it really didn’t fit with the Bears conversation but this is the Rams it’s sort of funny that lesne and sha McVey absolutely have to move up and down the draft board so this came out as well um they were they were pick 19 the first time they’ve had a first- round pick in the Shan McVey a going back to 2017 when he arrived there and there were some clips that made their way around the old uh internets that showed less calling Joe Douglas of the Jets he wanted to trade up to uh pick 10 to get Brock Bowers they were gonna get Brock Bowers at 10 and Joe Douglas stayed put he end up trading down one spot allowing that the Vikings come up and get JJ McCarthy um and then he said hey how about 11 that didn’t happen once Brock B was off the board of 13 the Rams were interested in trying to get Byron Murphy to replace Aaron donnald that didn’t happen he went to Seattle and I don’t want to say they settled but they stay put and got J adverse and then they Circle back at BR FIS in round two and um I think they’re they’re they’re probably pretty happy with that but what about the notion of going up to get Brock Bowers at 10 reportedly yeah well that’s reportedly and I I didn’t see those clips so um that’s part of the business on draft day uh trying to get aggressive but not being too aggressive where you make a decision to just give your draft picks away you know like you you know just going off on another Rabbit Hole here no pun in tle to grle God Rest her soul she was a great house dog but um where was I going with that oh the the Minnesota Vikings if you look at what they gave up for JJ McCarthy and what they gave up to move up to get Dallas Turner yeah they gave up in it you know because they dipped into their 2025 picks they gave up an entire draft class to go get those two players so they were very aggressive so and I think both those players would be very good players but if they don’t pan out and you gave up an entire draft class then you’re going to be uh looked at a little sideways yeah and again we’re not looking at the Houston Texans sideways for the Will Anderson deal because it worked out but that’s the that’s the concern um apparently lesne was willing to give up pick 19 and pick 52 to get up to pick 10 but Joe Douglas didn’t want to do that they ended up taking Olaf Asu at 11 I believe is where they end up getting him when the Viking straight up to to get JJ and it’s pretty I think he could argue that they I can’t remember the details maybe they got a better Hall from the jet uh the Jets just move up or excuse me the Vikings move up one spot anyway I thought that was interesting Brock Bowers and byon Murphy were on the to-do list for the Rams um they had to settle quote unquote for J reverse I think they’ll be happy with that and BR and fisken Fisk at 52 would have had yeah absolutely all right take a one more quick break we’ll hit a couple more headlines and we’ll get out of here so Rick can make his tea time and shoot that 78 right after this oh my Lord disaster high speeds across the board sale GP is back in New York City these are the best athletes on [Music] water all right I’m to mix up these headlines a little bit to keep the rookies together but let’s start with Anthony Richardson he’s had his shoulder looked at multiple times by trainers he’s obviously coming off that shoulder surgery uh from last year that cut his season short sort of a freak injury it wasn’t like he was doing anything out of the norm had taken a good number of hits up to the the point that he got hurt are you starting to get worried if you’re a GM or you’re like okay it’s just no he’s fine please yeah everybody’s overreacting because there’s nothing to over there’s nothing to back to so it’s a precautionary it’s probably part of his program uh they gave him a day off just to make sure he’s fine and dandy I read an article where he and the receivers are going to have their own mini camp coming up here in a couple weeks uh wherever they get together to get ready for training camp so I wouldn’t be concerned at all about this okay well if you’re not concerned I’m not going to be concerned oh my gosh I just you maybe you’ve looked do you know who the backup is in Indianapolis yeah Joe flacko Joe flacko that’s great that’s right because the the Browns they thought about keeping them or there’s a whole thing there all right good well you’re fine you got two two of the strongest arms in the NFL Anthony will be fine Rick Felman next up Kamari Lasser their second round pick impressing at Texans Camp I thought he was a first- round Talent till he ran to the four sixes and then I got a little scared is this gonna be a Brian Branch situation it could be because there was no question about his football ability and his instincts as is a DB uh it was about his long speed and I think they’re playing him or lining him up in the slot I believe I think so so that would be a what they did with Brian Branch because that the football intelligence and the instincts are critical of that place and when you watched him on tape coming out of Georgia there’s no question about his ball Hawking skills or his instincts uh and he is a physical aggressive hitter as well which is a critical factor to be a part of uh or to be at that position in the slot because you’re going to have to run support so everything he has done positively when we looked at the tape in college is showing up in these OTAs in mini camp so it feels like the Bears are the 2023 Houston Texans in terms of their potential trajectory and comparing these two defenses now is it crazy to say the Houston Texans might have as good a defense or maybe even a little bit better than Chicago yeah because how aggressive they were and I’m again going off my recall and the one thing I I’m not good at anything but I usually can recall things that happened I’m staring at the dep chart if you want me to help you out yeah well I know they went out and signed Den Neil Hunter so to steal him with uh Will Anderson they’re two pretty good Edge rushers coming off the uh opposite ends and who you going to take out you have to slide your protection to one or the other so and then with Lasser coming in and some of uh did they sign a safety as well they drafted kayin book they have Jimmy Ward there Jaylen Petri still there right der Stingley when he’s healthy they have CJ Henderson the former first- round pick yeah so I I think that the way that Theo Ryan has had success on defense and even last year I thought they were not a bad defense at all NOP um that uh and demo Ryan to me uh should have been up for or was a candidate for a coach of the year especially a rookie coach coming in you know he’s going to have that defensive defense humming and everything they else did with the trade to Stefon Diggs uh I I wouldn’t be surprised if Houston makes a push to go after you know the Kansas Cities and the Cincinnati Bengals and all the favorites in the AFC to go compete this year not only to win the AFC South but they actually make a little run in the playoffs man if this team went to the Super bow that would don’t forget Joe Mixon if I’m not mistaken they added him to the back field as well absolutely Joe Mixon and I don’t know if Damen Pierce was hurt last year he didn’t have a their offensive line struggle to run the ball at times but um and tank Dell the reports are that he’s healthy he obviously broke his lower leg and I think he was got shot um in this offseason but he’s he’s recovered from that um so there’s a a lot of reasons for optimism they got Kate Stover I forgot about that my goodness it’s gonna be fun all right another hypothetical for you great it’s not it’s not really hypothetical I think I know the answer put yourself in the shoes of Joe Douglas the Aaron Roger stuff he’s not showing up do you care or do you have to just block it out of your mind I care if there was no communication but I’m sure there was communication before and Roger said hey I have a personal issue that’s very important to me that I want to be there yeah he was there if he wasn’t there through the whole offseason program and Miss mandatory mini camp then yes that’s an issue but he was there during all the OTAs and if something came up uh where he had made a um how if he made uh plans before the OTA and mini camp schedule actually came out uh he may have already told them before once the mini camp schedule came out that might have been discussed three months ago that hey I’m not going to be at the man mini mandatory mini camp I will be here for all the OTAs uh but I have to do this during the mandatory miniamp wherever he is I don’t know if you know where he went or what he had to do I know um but it was something that he felt was important but you’re talking about a 40 41 year old quarterback who’s a future Hall of Famer do you think missing two days of mandatory mini camp is going to set their back absolutely not yeah it’s not like it’s whatever CJ Str or Anthony Richardson taking time off in year two just to go you know go to laa paloa is that the little thing I don’t know what is la la paloa used to be a get together of bands Outdoors started in the mid 90s uh so I think I’m dating himself myself but the point is right it doesn’t matter even though he only played Four snaps last year he’s still Aaron Rogers I think you know what to expect and and you know because and they did find him at least it sound like in the media that they find him for missing the mandatory mini camp so you kept to your business principles and hey I understand this but we’re going to still find you for this um and if it was okay don’t worry about it I’m making 40 million a year anyway uh this is more important than whatever yeah amount of money I’m going to be fined so but yeah absolutely again New York media Major Market things got to get reported things are slow during the off season Aaron Rogers doesn’t show up for two days of mandatory mini camp but he was there the whole off season seon we got to make a story of it and we’re talking about it all right let’s talk about something more on the field related your former team the Vikings are moving former Patriots first- round pick nikel Harry the wide receiver to tight end and uh before I get your thoughts on that I have a list of a couple names you have any former wide receivers that moved to tight ends and had any level of success I have four names that I scribble down here go ahead you did the I did not do my homework on this Devon funch okay they michig play to Carolina for a little bit JJ ARA Whiteside struggled uh the Stanford wide receiver struggled as a second round pick of the eagles they moved into wide receiver I don’t think he’s in the league anymore Elijah Higgins who we talked about last year during the draft process was a wide receiver at Stanford Stanford yeah uh played with my guy Michael Wilson when Michael Wilson played but uh he got drafted by the Dolphins but he end up playing for Arizona last year Higgin did he had 14 catch just for 163 in a touchdown so he did get some run as a tight end and then guy just retired went to Georgia Tech Darren Waller Darren Waller wide receiver and he was an outstanding tight end in in the NFL so nikel Harry’s thing for me coming out was that he wasn’t necessarily that explosive and never was able to to get separation and it just didn’t work out for him because of that but he is thick he reminds me a little bit of like Jaan Johnson and um that sort of player I get the jawans mix up that’s one in the New Orleans and one in in in San Francisco um can he can he be that sort of player or you got is he an inline guy I think that with today’s game and these tight ends that are coming out in the draft we’ve all you know put him in a category of pass catching tight ends they can’t run block um but the way offenses are trying to create mismatches um by moving these bigger body receivers to tight end they can fulfill a role what yeah there was I was thinking who was a tight end was there a tight end in New Orleans they got moved Jawan Johnson played at Tennessee or he played Oregon I think and then he’s now in New Orleans I’m looking at up now because I always get him confused and there is Joan Jennings is the the wide receiver for San Francisco they’re both big body guys but Johan Johnson’s listed as a tight end now for the Saints and he played let me double check he played at uh Oregon so he when there a kid out of Texas that was a big receiver I’m just going trying to go through my roll of decks that got moved um had two names for a last name got it I don’t know St John or something like that uh come on come on come on St John I don’t know no there was a big big receiver that came out of Texas that played with New Orleans I believe they got moved Little John little Humphrey oh yes Jordan little humy little Hy Jordan what is yeah him yeah he got moved from receiver to tight end as well got him I good we had an old man moment there I think Marcus Coulson was a tight end at Hof he moved outside so he may have gone the other way yeah I don’t remember when he played at HRA but the point is that there is a role for these type of players if they’re not explosive enough to play outside as a receiver that maybe if they’re more than willing as a a blocker at least to get in the way and give some effort that they can carve out a role yeah we had our we had our old man moment there but it’s funny you say that because I remember this was back in 2011 you didn’t have him on your original list I had to come up with that on my own yeah uh I still don’t remember his full name it’s there’s a Humphrey there’s a little and there’s a Jordan in there that the order I can’t remember which the order is but you’re right the Texas receiver um but it’s funny back in 2011 I remember going to CBS headquarters CBS sports headquarters down in Manhattan prior to the season starting and talking to Shannon sharp who used to be on NFL today because this was the time where the conversation was maybe Tim TBO moves to tight end and I remember him saying look you can look like Tim TBO but you gotta want to be in line and have to block those defensive ends and block those outside linebackers because that’s not something everyone wants to do so that’s the the conversation that you got to figure out and look you’ve probably seen this a lot when your job is on the line and your team is asking to do something you’re not going to half ass it I would imagine nikel Harry’s trying to learn how to be a good blocker if he’s not good enough already and he can catch the football but the other stuff the position change is what’s going to have to require a lot of his effort I would imagine of these next few weeks yeah and again until the pads come on you’re not going to know that yeah that’s also true all right one last thing and then we’ll get out of here some teams have players that are holding out and on a scale of 1 to 10 you can just tell me how concerned you are 10 being the most most concerned one being you don’t care and you’re mad that I asked you the question CD lamb um I’m concerned a little bit I be concerned like seven oh okay you are concerned well the pro are you concerned because you got to pay Micah and you gotta pay Dak that’s what I’m concerned yeah that’s I don’t know how that math is gonna work out all right I think brand auk either tweeted this or it came out somewhere on the internet said he doesn’t think the team wants to give him what he’s worth something to to that effect brand a How concerned about that not as concerned because I think he’ll come in and play and then uh end up getting a contract somewhere else next year but have you said previously that you don’t think he gets traded I don’t think he’ll get traded but who knows you know if there’s an injury during training camp or something like that someone and someone thinks that they have a roster that is competitive enough to compete for a Super Bowl they make a move I had to do that with Sam Bradford I wasn’t going to trade for Sam br for but I didn’t see Teddy Bridgewater going down we had a really good football team at the time so you had to do what you had to do so you always got to be you can’t predict those things and you were uh between a rock and a hard place in terms of the compensation yeah I had no choice you had no choice all right what about Hassan reck who is uh he’s still 29 he’ll turn 30 in September new Jets linebacker he’s no showed that seems a little different than the Aaron Rogers situation if you’re Joe Douglas yeah because he wasn’t there I don’t believe through all the OTAs either so that’s something if you make that trade you want to make sure that the contract doesn’t become an issue so it would be interesting to see if they can resolve that I don’t think he would hold out just because he got traded to a major Market yeah um but I know that the 11th Hour doesn’t come up to right before training camp or right before uh that first regular season game all right Trevor Lawrence got paid last week 55 million that’s a lot but that’s what you have to do to Aang by Loa is he going to get a new deal he’ll get a new deal done I yeah no concern with that he’s not taking less than 55 in a penny right I don’t know I’m sure they’re working through the uh problem now it’s a problem for Steven Ross it’s not a problem for Tua yes if he gets it do you think if you’re starting a team to I know what you’re gonna say if you’re starting a team Tomorrow based on the productivity in the NFL you taking Trevor or you taking Tua Trevor I just don’t understand why people will keep hopping on this Trevor tree all right I get it that’s it I mentioned the mailbag we’ll do the mailbag later Rick’s said things to do I’m trying to avoid enjoy my week’s vacation by working on vac a what is that workation they call it yeah are you playing golf every day yes how’s your game how’s it how’s it going uh played a very hard course and actually hit the ball pretty good oh good yesterday and the the Midwest courses are different than the Florida courses yes they are the grass is totally different there is grass no there’s water but it’s not like ocean no it’s not like hitting from yeah water to water to island green to island green all right Rick that’s it episode 164 is in the books enjoy your golf game sir thanks as always to my guy Rick thanks to Harry for producing thanks guys who watch and listen to comment have a great weekend we’ll be back next week uh for another podcast see you then