Was Mike Riley the Biggest Miss of the Post-Osborne Era?

PROGRAMMING NOTE: This episode was recorded nearly two months ago, prior to the passing of Dee Riley. We want to extend our sincere condolences to Mike Riley and his entire family on the loss of their wife, mother and grandmother. As both Brian and Brandon point out in the episode, Mike Riley is one of the nicest and best people they have worked with. He and Dee touched countless lives during their time in Lincoln, and our thoughts and prayers are with the Riley family.
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The Common Fans bring you Episode 4 of The Reckoning series. This episode, featuring long time Nebraska reporters Brian Christopherson and Brandon Vogel, focuses on the question: Was Mike Riley the Biggest Miss of the Post-Osborne Era?

The crew looks at:

– The very brief coaching search by then Athletic Director Shawn Eichorst as he quickly zeroed in on Riley.
– The challenging environment Riley walked into – a divided locker room, extremely high expectations, and the demand to win right away.
– The 2016 season, when the Huskers got out to a 7-0 start and were ranked in the top 10 before the bottom fell out.
– The forced firing of Mark Banker, Riley’s longtime friend and defensive coordinator, and the installation of Bob Diaco as DC.
– The Riley team’s recruiting efforts: Calibraska, Friday Night Lights, and more.
– Biggest wins of the Riley era, including the 2015 Michigan State game and the 2016 Oregon game.
– The major turning points: the end of the 2016 season, and ultimately, the 2017 loss to Northern Illinois.
– In the end, Riley was not the right fit for Nebraska, at a time when the Big Red really needed to get it right.

Special thanks to Brandon Vogel of the Counter Read for joining the Common Fans for all of The Reckoning episodes. Make sure to check out www.counterread.com for Brandon’s excellent coverage of Nebraska football, college football, and other Nebraska sports.

And make sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel, www.youtube.com/@commonfanGBR.

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[Music] [Music] you’re listening to the common fan podcast a huster football podcast for the common fan by the common fan [Music] welcome back to the common fan podcast I am TJ burkel with Maddie Owens senior and G off in Lincoln this is episode four of the Reckoning special guest Brandon vogle is joining us for all of the Reckoning episodes and our featured guest today is Brian kristoferson Brian Brandon great to have you gentlemen yeah thanks for having me around don’t be too tough on me please thanks for not kicking me off yet you’re you’re riding on thin ice Brandon but we St along for a while this is the Mike Riley episode it could be tough for all of us yeah yeah the question we’re exploring today is was Mike Riley the biggest Miss of the post Osborne era make sure to check out the first three episodes of the Reckoning if you haven’t already we’ve taken an in-depth look at whether Nebraska should have fired Frank solich examined the question of whether Bill Callahan would have or could have worked with more time and explored the still divisive Pini era and make sure to visit our new website www.omf.co.nz and the best of the best can be found at certified ped Monti raised and grazed in the sand hills region of the state don’t let the summer grilling season go by without enjoying this premium homegrown product stop by your local Marcato butcher shop at 30th in Yankee Hill or 84th in havlock in Lincoln and at 162nd and Maple in Omaha you can also go to cpb.com to get certified ped montis steaks ground beef and more shipped right to your front door anywhere across all 50 states certified ped montis powering the Husker football team and powering the common fan podcast all right guys let’s Jump Right In to the Mike Riley era um we always begin by looking at sort of the Outlook generally speaking for Husker football not based on the coach just sort of where the program is uh when the new coach comes in so kind of a unique thing coming off a coaching firing but Nebraska was coming off of seven consecutive seasons of nine or more wins they won three division titles in that time and they were a nose hair away from not one but two big 12 titles during that time of course uh we talked a lot about the Pini era in the previous episode you know you could say he was fired because he couldn’t get over the hump in G in big games that mattered you could say it was personality driven sideline Antics Etc but regardless big picture the program was in was in decent shape it wasn’t like sort of the post Callahan era or post Riley post Frost where we were in a little bit of a deeper hole um was really interested I felt like I remembered the search for when we ultimately hired Mike Riley better but I was I was kind of surprised when I went back and looked that it took less than four days um and athletic director Sean ior from everything I found kind of zeroed in on Riley almost immediately um and that was that’s so surprising because he TR the Riley hire came out of nowhere I remember the World Herald had published a list of of something like 40 potential names you know that could be considered candidates for the job and Mike Riley was not on that list Brian what what do you remember about sort of that coaching search and everything that that happened in that relatively short amount of time um I remember when they announced it it stunned us I was at the Lincoln Journal Star at the time um and we were actually in that moment that morning I think it was on Thursday um tracking if there was any steam to Kyle Whittingham that was like the name we were just kind of we had heard maybe there was a conversation or it was one of those deals where they had at least kicked the tires on it um obviously that gets people’s imaginations running now a little bit with with what Kyle did um but I remember that was the name my cohort at the time Steve Sipple was in his office actually on a phone call and I think talking with someone about him you know just trying to figure out where it was I don’t want this to take on a life of its own like we thought they were you know on the doorstep with him um but that’s where we were at that morning and I I like knocked on sipple’s door I was like um Mike Riley that’s who it is it’s over put it down put the phone down let’s get go we we got to work um and we were nowhere close to thinking um the name of Mike Riley at that point and what’s funny is if you go back and you look at Riley’s resume like in 2007 after that coaching or during that coaching change it actually would have probably in some ways like computed more to Husker fans or they would have like thought like oh yeah that lines up because he that was right when Oregon state had kind of been some a giant killer and they had nine or t wins a couple years um so it it was out of left field to us but I will say this the Sunday that uh I course had the press conference announcing the firing of Pini I believe it was a Sunday I talked to someone going out to the elevator that was pretty high up in the administration he said this is going to go fast be ready that like he he said like we got it was like they had someone like they thought and that’s the way they kind of portrayed it um afterward too and the timetable suggests that they did have someone because um by Monday that Monday um Sean ior somehow escaped like to San Francisco like wearing a US Open ball cap traveling through the Lincoln Airport to Denver uh got there without anyone saying anything we had no Bob Davey installed cable type situations at all about it um he just he got out and got out west and I think by Tuesday they knew it was Riley so um I know Harvey Pearlman at the press conference then Chancellor was adamant they’ obviously offered the job to nobody else of course offered a big word and helps you gives you some leeway um that’s definitely believable the only other name that I remember sort of being reported or floated about to was Brett bimma like I remember there was some talk that maybe um they had kicked the tires on that one so I don’t know that those got very far though because when you look at the timetable when I course got out West and Harvey Pearlman was already out in San Francisco like Monday and Tuesday of that week like a day or so into the search it it is truly believable that they were pretty centered on on Riley and and making that go yeah and for for common fans who are interested there’s a piece it’s still up you can still find it on espn.com if you just Google about the the coaching search but Mitch did a great job chronicling that and truly icor is sitting in the Lincoln Airport flying commercial you know like uh getting ready to fly out and interview Mike Mike Riley which is which is kind of hilarious if you think about even even nowadays um Brandon anything to add to that about sort of reactions to the or memories of the coaching search um I mean I I remember the day it was announced to and it was kind of you know behind the scenes like the way this works you’re trying to track down things that you hear but you’re also like trying to work ahead so you’re you’re ready to go when when an announcement happens and with with when they announced Riley it was like starting from scratch with that like he wasn’t on well he wasn’t on our list and he wasn’t on any of the lists I don’t think which you got to do those candidate lists I never really lik doing them um a whole lot because it’s it’s it’s a lot of guess workk like there’s two ways you can land on that it’s a be like a coach of the moment you know your upand Comer guys that are in line for for a bigger job or you have some sort of connection to the program and that’s you know there you go that’s that’s a good start to a list for you Riley hadn’t either um so I remember you know as I don’t remember when but like when it came out that yeah you know ior should been to San Francisco I remember a brief moment of like oh maybe it’s David Shaw um that would have made some sense uh you know in terms of profile and I think on that one a little bit and found out pretty quickly like that that wasn’t it so and then a couple of days later uh we we knew who it was so yeah interesting I mean I didn’t think about it at the time the fact that I course was willing to fly commercial out there like he was kind of a like a Moneyball type of ad I think and I think he was successful with that in a lot of like off the field like business sense sort of things um but it makes sense like for a guy who’s trying to maximize value they’d be like no I’m not going to take the private jet I’ll just I’ll just fly commercial well that’s that’s great Point Brandon um Brian you know do your Rec recollection and I I’m having trouble remembering kind of the timeline of events here um uh but wondering um you know we kind of it almost seems like they they had Riley locked and loaded and ready to go once they pulled the trigger on Pini um you know you mentioned Rumblings of Kyle Winningham and you and one of our old favorites on this program Bert BMA um but it really seemed like kind of a you know I definitely got my guy kind of search um you know Brian first and then maybe Brandon if you have something to add do we know is was anyone else he even talked to or interviewed um other than Mike Riley I went back and looked at this we did report so this is a you know 10 years ago but we did report I think that they had um talked with with um Whittingham we thought someone told us that um you know you know how these things go every you know sometimes you got people trying to float stuff for certain reasons and all that so um that’s as far as it was for us um as I went back and looked at the reporting and honest to goodness we weren’t getting much traction on this one like it at the newspaper um after Callahan got fired like whatever that was an 8 day search with Pini that one was just like a dream for us we had a few people that were we were kind of getting the right stuff from and you just kind of knew along the way it was going down these paths these were the guys that were involved and that was actually a case where sometimes it’s not like this but the stuff that was in print was pretty close to like you know exactly what was kind of going down behind the scenes I felt with that one this one um to ior’s credit even though he kind of did it uh in the cover of light uh not in the he was in the light when he you know W went on a commercial flight FL um you know he he was able to pull it off without really anyone being on the scent of it and so I’m kind of inclined looking back at it to to just settle on he was mostly Riley was basically their guy I think like maybe there was a conversation here or there like you would hope there would be some due diligence on that part but at least by Monday 24 hours after the firing of uh you know Bo and obviously there could have been conversations that weekend with other guys you know what going to do and you’re moving forward but pretty quickly it was it was known this was the guy and I always go back to what that guy what my One Source said that this is going to be over quickly you know so um it seemed like they did have somebody on their radar sorry I get choked up talk I get no you’re fine Brandon do you have do you have something to add Brandon I get angry talking about it yeah I mean I think to one of Brian’s earlier points you know the timeline here certainly suggests that um you know maybe they didn’t maybe they didn’t know it was Riley at the time that ior fired fired Pini but I’m guessing and it it’s just a guess um you know it was it was a tough one to to track down on on for us as well um suggests that you know you at least engaged interest probably with with a coach like Riley for it to happen that quickly and I think in that short of a time frame yeah you probably ask around like you probably go through agents and and say hey whether it’s you’ve made the decision on Pini yet or not like hypothetically what if um and that’s how this thing can kind of start and but it’s I mean this one stands out from all of the things we’re talking about in this series in that you know it’s it’s pretty singular in terms of I think this was I course um and it’s where he wanted to go which I you know I think we’ll come up a little bit later with some things we have to discuss I wonder with ior being on a commercial flight like if he checks a bag or if he’s that guy that’s struggling to jam the briefcase into the overhead compartment that we always see gotta love that guy honey is that is that shot I doesn’t sir the that has to close that’s not gonna fit sir I have very important meetings in San Francisco uh Brian and Brandon uh Brian I’ll let you go first but as a fan reactions aside because I I think we’ve all kind of gone down the remember when I know where I was at I was at work at my desk I think it heard it on the radio I had like an AM radio and I said Mike Riley’s announced as the new head coach for the University of Nebraska and I remember thinking like hey okay Mike Riley who the hell is Mike Riley kind of like on who the hell is Happy Gilmore type of thing so I know where I was at and what my reaction to it was I didn’t even know who it was um I know you said you were stunned by the hire but what did you think of it personally did you think this was a good hire a bad hire what were your thoughts on that um I was very much uh I would say I was very much in the middle on it like I I I had always kind of been intrigued by Mike Riley but it felt like my uh interest in him had been was like five years removed from that date like I he’d been that coach to me that was really like oh man he kind of makes Oregon State interesting like I remember them winning a Thursday night game against USC you know like uh when they were number one or two you know when USC was USC and it was such a moment and it was just a sweet scene in Corvalis and but I don’t remember what year that was but it felt like back a few years ago I was like oh this guy’s kind of interesting like you know and um and then i’ kind of just lost um touch with what was going on with that program so you really had to uh figure out quickly okay like what’s happened the last three or four years at Oregon State because if you go look at like his his record in you know 13 and 14 I think he won seven games one of them and then was like five and seven in 2014 when he was hired um so it was one of those hires where you had to the fan base had to talk themselves into okay he basically hasn’t had like Championship Seasons but he’s done the most you can do with what he has now imagine what he can do with these resources he’s going to have at Nebraska so that IM immediately became sort of the uh storyline that was launched like in those first 24 hours it’s like he’s he’s done a lot with little and then you got a lot of like what a gentleman he was remember like it was just like Mike Riley is like the gentleman of college football and all that um and there’s some truth to that um and so uh that was really what took off immediately but yeah I was like everybody else kind of scre Ling like what what has he done the last few years cuz I I’ve I haven’t been tracking him that yeah I I think it’s strange to think like if that higher happened now you know even though it was just 10 years ago It Feels Like A lot’s changed namely Tennessee successfully running off Greg shato not that I think huster fans would necessarily do that but like it was never you know anything like that and you could I think the thing that helped the higher at least the selling you know for it to be sold uh at the time that it was made is like you could you could see the play right like Oregon State at the time that Mike rley took over the first time I think had an all-time winning percentage of like 46% he won about 53% somewhere around there over two stint at Oregon State I was like okay well if you can take a program that was an all-time you know sub 500 they hadn’t had a winning season in I think 24 years when he took over and he didn’t get he didn’t have a winning season his first two somehow parlayed that into the San Diego Chargers job um and and then came back and you know had some good Seasons but like you could see it like Brian said it was the resources play I was like okay well if you made them better come to a place with better ingredients to start and and see what you can do and everybody be like oh well okay now we just got to see it happen and uh well it did it not happen yeah I remember you I think there were some former players who who spoke really positive of him I think there was like a couple Anonymous Pack 12 coaches and everybody was saying you know he’s basically been macgyvering you know with with chewing gum and and paper clips holding together the Oregon State program he’s such a great coach you know wait till he gets the keys to the Ferrari at Nebraska and I think we all I I don’t know if we fell for it or just wanted to convince ourselves of it um but I mean if you look at it it makes me so M this doing the research for this episode made me just angry like he was a career 500 Coach he had never won a conference title three out of his previous Five Seasons before being hired at Nebraska were losing Seasons um I mean the most success he had had was in the Canadian Football League where I think he won a couple of gray cups whatever the hell of gray cup is um and I think the other thing that stands out is I don’t I’m not an expert on this I don’t have data on it but it feels like in 2024 almost you almost have to as an ad do a formal search if you’re not going to hire an outside consultant at least put like a panel of stakeholders together just to cover your butt if if for no other reason right a as a like it almost feels like something that would happened 30 years ago like how how in the world was iic course allowed to do this oneman search and make this decision all on his own and go get an average coach who had never coached in the Big 10 who had never won anything and asked the guy to do the best coaching job of his life at Nebraska do something he had never done before yeah Brian no no I mean it that is the the interesting part of it it was it was a it was Sean’s guy um and I think um Harvey Pearlman probably had some input too and it it was a um a coach with a completely different personality than the guy you just let go of at least on the surface you know and that was a big deal at that moment cuz we all remember that like the discussion about you know B on the sidelines and all that stuff I remember calling Harvey Pearlman um after the Texas A&M game when we were in the airport to get because he was you know he had reprimanded B for like his behavior that night before on the sideline against A&M and stuff like that and so um you cannot kind of understand it from a temperament standpoint um and so I think that was like a big storyline too at the at the moment but yeah it was very much um Sean’s guide they were going to be hand in hand and if uh if Riley had success so it would go for ior and people would forgive him for some of the things along the way and those who were bevers would have got over it and all that stuff um but yeah they were they were attached at the hip um which will lead us when we get to that question to an interesting thing on you know like when they made the decorin nator change in 2016 um but um yeah that Sean he was Sean’s guy and I think Harvey loved the fact that um he was going to be a coach who you knew like was going to on the sideline represent Nebraska well and you weren’t going to have uh someone on your phone the next day saying what’s our head coach doing on the sideline that stuff mattered at that moment yeah anti it’s an anti- Pini hire that’s the way I always viewed it it was just we wanted to do the opposite of what we were doing before and in his mind I think it would just bring uh ease to the fan base of having somebody with like a Tom Osborne demeanor that’s more mild mannered white on the sideline so I 100% agree I remember that really was a prominent storyline and I just remember thinking like are there any nice coaches who have won conference championships out there like certainly there’s other nice coaches yeah um Brandon to your point I think ior um is a good administrator he’s a good like Financial guy but man that guy should never be allowed near the paying customers again I mean that I mean just it just makes me so angry all right sorry anything to add to that Brandon before we jump into the Riley tenure no I mean you’re right the bedside Manor was was maybe not as strong suit I mean that makes me think of kind of agreeing to go along with the Black Friday game going away you know that sort of thing uh just kind of not having a read on it but otherwise like I mean I legitimately look at his tenure which was short he he did some good things it was just it it was not a lot of the front-facing pieces of it that you uh that kind of make you live or die as a as an ad for the most part yeah for sure for sure okay jumping into the Riley tenure 2015 they go five and seven um and because there weren’t enough six- win teams in Nebraska’s academic performance we actually got to play in a Bull game that year and beat UCLA in the Foster Farms bull to finish six and seven so there’s a little bit of optimism to end what was otherwise a fairly miserable season that started with the BYU Hil Mary loss and then they had they had six it’s become all too common for Husker fans but when you look at it six onore losses they lost in overtime to Miami they blew a 13 nothing fourth quarter lead at Illinois two-o uh home losses to both Wisconsin and Northwestern that Wisconsin games the Andy Janovich game that I just I was so sure we were going to win that game like so many against Wisconsin um then there was that weird loss at Purdue where Purdue kind of dominated and it didn’t feel like the Huskers even showed up that was a 10-point loss and then uh lost by eight to Iowa uh which was number three at the time in the midst of their of their undefeated season before they lost of course in the Big 10 championship and got smoked in the bowl game just in a side in case Nebraska fans had forgot how Iowa ended That season um you know they did and the Huskers did they got that win against a top 10 Michigan State team in 2015 they beat UCLA so there were like reasons to Hope reasons you could tell yourself Year One you know um uh was a transition year and there’s reasons to Hope and then of course they start S and0 in 2016 and we’re in the top 10 and you know the big win was against number 22 Oregon in Lincoln um which which of course ended up being a 4 and8 and not very good team but that was a big win at the time it was the Mike Riley storyline with his history against Oregon um and you know Husker fans I think briefly felt like it was the 90s again and then and then um go to Madison at s and0 against if I recall I think Wisconsin was in the top 10 at the time too um and played him uh blow for blow I mean that was a heck of a game I was there um really could have mean could have would have should have but very well could have won that game lost in overtime by by six points um then it kind of started to unravel got completely blown out by Ohio State and really kind of manhandled and pushed around by Iowa uh and then you know still nine and three went to the Music City Bowl and just you know we lost 38-24 but I don’t even think it was that close uh it just felt like we got overmatched by Tennessee um and then and then things get interesting um so iic course essentially forces the firing of Mark Bank defensive coordinator Mark Banger I think it was about December of 16 January of 17 somewhere in there and Bob diako um who had been at a halfway decent program before Jeff I can’t remember which one it was but um Bob diako Brian in case you don’t know Jeff’s our Jeff’s our resident half noted aim fan so um that’s that that’s the the reference there but so Dio’s available he had had some a ton of success he considered an up andc coming defensive coordinator and ior kind of forces the issue and and brings him into the fold with Riley um and so I think there was hope in 2017 that I think that was Tanner Lee you know everybody was thought was the hype on Tanner Lee as quarterback Bob Dio’s defense like wow we could maybe like take another step forward this year and things didn’t look good from the get-go um we we H barely held on to beat Arkansas State and then had back-to-back losses against Oregon and then at home against Northern Illinois which is a really bad loss ior was of course fired after the Northern Illinois game and already started feeling ominous for the Riley tenure at that point um Bill moose comes in as athletic director on October 23rd of 2017 so kind of halfway through the football season um the Huskers finish 4- eight uh they lose six of their last seven games the final three it just felt like you know it kind of felt like the end of the Callahan era I me it felt like Riley was losing his his grip on the program they lost 5421 to Minnesota 5644 to Penn State and 5 64 against Iowa uh moose fires Riley the day after the Iowa game that’s a lot that’s a little more detailed than we get into normally with the with the 10e recap but I just wanted to kind of remind folks of the Riley era was relatively short but a lot happened in there um so we got a lot of questions relating to a number of those of those things uh I want to start with this one that 2015 team it was interesting they had five future NFL draft picks Malik Collins Vincent Valentine Alex Lewis Andy janovic were all 2016 draft guys and then Nate Gary was a 2017 draft guy they they absolutely should have won more than five games you could easily like without much effort they could have been seven and five and then you could argue they should have won one or two more than that which of course is the case for so many recent Husker Seasons um Brian and you know we had Jordan Wester camp on last year and and he talked about how sort of there was division in that locker room it was I think it was a tough transition for the guys who loved Bo um and so I don’t think it was the easiest transition for Riley was the final result result in 2015 more of an indictment on Riley as a coach or the divided locker room that he inherited uh probably a combination of both it was it was one of the toughest assignments of like I mean give me the situation that Scott Frost walked into um any day of the week over Riley uh you know when you’re taking over a program that had just won nine games you’ve got to immediately hit that bar you’ve got a locker room that’s ticked off about it um the previous head coach actually has a meeting with the players in a separate school you know people might remember talking about the firing and all this is happening well you’re working out the deal to come to this place to be the head coach um an incredibly difficult assignment and then it’s one of those deals where kind of need things to like happen right immediately like get that Feelgood you pull out a onepoint win over BYU for instance and it’s like okay they’re one to0 you know instead of oh no the Hail Mary from 44 yards out that the guy just gets it over the goal line you know and so that’s how it starts and so it’s a downer um that was such a season of bizarre games as you mentioned going through them like the Miami game was a strange game they got their tails kicked for three quarters and then suddenly are in overtime and have all the momentum but but still lost um and then the Illinois game was actually the game I remember when Mike Riley was fired I had the column ready to go because everybody knew it was going to happen and um the column was titled the what was that moment came really early and it was the Illinois game to me it was like you’re uh what was that four five games in um five games in and that’s still the most unbelievable ridiculous Nebraska loss I’ve ever seen as far as just like I know there was a miscommunication I know the coaches didn’t want them um to throw the ball when they did in this situation where Tommy tried to get it I think to ozigbo or somebody and it falls it was uh it was the kid from California um uh all sorry sorry to interrupt go ahead no no no I mean regardless like that’s a game where you KNE if they had knel it out which they didn’t have to do but just keep it on the ground the game’s over so anyway you lose that one for 143 and it was just so all these things are kind of like the first year where people were like questioning like what’s you know what what’s up with the game management what’s up with the communication here or there um and you immediately go back into that five six win ho that they had avoided the whole Pini era um but there’s no question he had a divided locker room right off the bat and um there was also some things like you know at Oregon State things evolved naturally as they had success like he had that hip hip paray thing you know which is like if if it’s something that is like a deal that picks up in your locker room where there’s just a Natural Evolution to it that’s fine but some of the stuff kind of got forced here in Nebraska and it just sort of got that eye roll treatment um right off the bat and so you’re kind of dealing with a couple of those like items that don’t matter but they do matter you know kind of things and so all that combined together to make it a tough it was a tough job to take on there’s no question I I remember thinking a year in like this is a bridge to something else and that’s maybe not fair to the Riley era but I always kind of felt like this is the bridge we’re taking to get to somebody else um and and that’s just how I felt the whole time almost I was covering that that program in those years oh I think it was Terrell newbie uh yeah anyway um I’m glad I’m glad that we didn’t get too far into this episode before we got a hip hiip hoay reference um Brandon Brandon anything to add to that no I mean I was at that Illinois game as well and I remember the sense of shock but that was also like the first time I noticed players coming off the field after the game like I specifically remember like Alex Lewis quite quite unhappy uh let’s put it that way and and you could hear with like where Illinois is at like we’re we’re out on the fields you know waiting for game press conference start and the team’s lock room is like right around the corner so you can kind of hear that you know it’s getting pretty loud in there and I’m not talking about from the coaches um it just it kind of felt felt bad and you know to Brian’s point I definitely agree like the stepping into that situation after nine win nine wins every year at least under py is hard that BYU game you know not that this was like the most important streak that Nebraska lost over this you know this Century so far but I think that was their first like loss in an opener since 82 somewhere like that you know so not only did you it’d be one thing if it was just like ah yeah you lost on a Hail Mary but you know then everybody could be like oh well lost a lost a season opener for the first time in 20 some years um rough start and and just uh with with the way a couple of those went yeah I mean that I’m glad you guys brought that up too because I feel like now it’s I mean it’s only 10 years ago but back then I feel like we’ve kind of become desensitized to it now like we give them every coach you I feel like that we have we give him the benefit of the doubt of the first season I feel like we’ve just become numb to that transition to a new coach but back then you’re right like we expected results immediately coming off of a nine- win season um and so that takes me to next point is that in 2016 we did start off good and hot and got through that first season hump and we were seven and know going into that Wisconsin game that TJ was at and that loss in overtime um but for Brian and Brandon uh what’s your recollection of that stretch of games when for just a brief moment it felt like it was 90s Huskers football again what was that like for you what was your thoughts on that I mean the first off the Oregon game that year in Memorial Stadium was one of the more incredible environments um and I I’ll take that back to when they were dominating um I mean it was just like so incredibly loud to Let Me Clear My Throat moment you know after they took the lead and stuff like that um they had some stuff like that happen during the Riley era which was kind of interesting like you the Wisconsin game the year before when janovic had the run I think they did a similar thing and the stadium was just on fire and there was a piece of it where Nebraska fans even though they weren’t like dominant like they were in the 90s they were playing sort of these close games sometimes and it was like they could have more of an impact on like settling winning or losing than even they used to be able to have like during the glory years that was sort of a fun piece to it and that 70 start I did kind of think they might be a paper tiger here I understand the schedule is very favorable but the bottom line is they were finding a way to get it done they picked off Josh Allen like five times in a game that year um and uh you know so they had that moment like they’ve had a struggle against Illinois but uh in the fourth quarter they had like a remember they had like a 18pl drive or something in that game which gave them the lead and um so they were grinding out and finding a way to maximize what they had um the Wisconsin game will always be uh uh in Madison will always be a moment where I get chills um seriously when they went overtime and they had the Comm of coin and they called FY and it came up F and I was like I gotta win this freaking right right it was meant to be yeah um so that one hurt um and then you know it felt like after that this the someone had kind of popped the balloon a little bit you know you had to go to Ohio State which was a Jugger nod and it was just Nebraska just wasn’t on the same you know playing field at that point um but yeah that it was fun for a while and they were recruiting in an in they were at least in on really big name so you were kind and they had those Friday Night Lights events before the season where um like you had Micah Parsons running routes you know like in Memorial Stadium as a wide receiver and he’s burning fourstar cornerbacks like there was some cool stuff along the way where you’re like I kind of see could see where maybe they could get this going he hired Dante Williams who was a big-time recruiter he did some stuff like that but it it I do I was never like completely sold on the 2016 team even well was going on I have to say and then the Iowa game kind of confirmed that to me yeah um okay Brian I’m sorry it was a zigo I will never question you again I apologize on the the third the third I’ll stop talking I’ll stop talking no that’s all right I I wasn’t like a 100% it was one of those where I was like 72% sure but I like that 28% like backed me off I’m like don’t have this fight right now it could have been Brandon any thoughts on that either yeah I mean so you could I think most people whether inside Nebraska or outside Husker fan or not you could look at the schedule to the point that they were seven and0 and be like all right yeah this isn’t this isn’t exactly the toughest Road uh any teams had to face and I think it was muted even somewhat more by having to go to Wisconsin as kind of like the first big test which has been you know mostly a house ofs for for Nebraska since since joining the the Big 10 you lose that one tough and it was kind of like okay well you know this Ohio State game’s gonna be gonna be 10 10 times harder than than what you just dealt with but at least it’s an opportunity to like come back and say oh hey you know there’s something here and you like you just get wiped off the map and then that Iowa game at the end was was the worst as some somebody who likes to like play with spreadsheets perhaps too much like and I was on this corner this was I remember like writing this my postgame column for against Iowa the the bloodbath game from from Mark Banker uh where he where he said the practices must be a blood bath Nebraska in 2016 at the end of the regular season I think it out outscored teams by 57 points 2016 it was like 46 points somewhere around they were virtually identical Seasons In terms of like bottom line like how many points you score how many did you allow you went five and seven in one you went nine and four in the other so when it comes time to kind of Turn the Page to 2017 you’re left with a team that should have been probably about 14 and 10 after two seasons and actually was and it was just the context that was a little bit different uh between the two I mean and that happens all the time like that’s that’s that’s football to a degree but I don’t think I’ve ever seen back-to-back seasons it’s like okay well you were better than 5- seven and here it was like but you’re not as good as N9 yeah um you brought up that uh the point differential there Brandon you’re always bringing the heat with with really quality relevant stats man um so after that 2016 season as TJ mentioned in the recap uh it we kind of forced I course kind of forced the firing of Mark bloodbath banker and brought in Bob do you see the strain diako do we think I mean do you think the 2017 season goes any differently if Mark Banker is retained and is still the defensive coordinator or is it still is it kind of one of those things where it’s probably about the same in terms of you know the point differential and points given up as you know 2015 2016 um that that’s a good question um I will say that though I I do think ior obviously had input on the decision you know to move on and I don’t think Banker helped himself with the blood bath comments even though I appreciated um you know what he was saying and I I I think people understood the message there I don’t know if it’s was best serve for him as The Deco coordinator to kind of compare and put it out there like here’s this really physical team over here and we’re the you know it kind of had the physical versus soft component to it the Nebraska fans can’t stand so it was just a really ill advised move by him to put that into the air um so that you know that’s maybe part of it but I will say this I mean Riley as a head man could have made his own move regardless I really believe that be he could have stuck with who he had because um as I said earlier I course and him were attached at the hip like I course had to have Mike Riley have success and it’s not like he’s going to get rid of the man he just hired two years ago because it’s like oh I kind of would like to go this way but he’s not going that way so Riley still had some control I think we got to acknowledge that to do what he wanted to do in that situation I just think he I understand making a move there because it did feel like even though and Brandon made a really good point even though they were nine and four the metrics didn’t add up to that really it wasn’t like they were really had made as significant a progress as the record suggested it and you needed I think to spice it up or or find something to get give you an edge and making a DC move made sense they just made the wrong move and we talked ourselves into the diako high all off season around here and you could look at like what he did that one year at Notre Dame um where he had a you know he part of a good defense and they were really great in the Red Zone I remember that was a big storyline like how his defense bows up at the right time and has great stats down there uh but there was no doubt right away when he came in for the first press conference like boy this is going to be interesting because he’s quirky to the 100th degree like I mean I remember the opening press conference the little tape recorders are up on the podium and he’s like you have no idea how much I want to like straighten these out right now like that was how he like introduced himself like he was talking about wanting to change the tape records around because they weren’t like in the proper order and I was sitting there like oh boy this is going to be a wild ride with this guy um and so uh it was and includ and it included memes of him holding like a mini at one point he’d hold the mini little microphone head up to his mouth there was some humorous stuff along the way if you could if you could make yourself laugh during a season like that Brandon how about you any thoughts on that if if you know things turned out any differently if if we keep Mark Banker yeah don’t think it changes a Lot About That season like um I mean Nebraska if I’m recalling correctly like this wasn’t a year where they were like flush on you know returning production and starters it was it was going to be a a a year where you’re gonna gonna have a little bit of a harder go of it say this know the Dio hire did like give Nebraska some momentum or at least Nebraska fans like stay certainly from media perspective d something to write about for all all spring and summer because you know it was it was interesting like and Dio at Notre Dame like had really good defenses and kind of did it without takeaways which which is a little like personal point of pride of mine um you know sure you can you can be pretty good defensively in terms of limiting points when you you know have a bunch of takeaways but what happens when you don’t have those and the yakos were were kind of a little bit turnover independent Brian mentioned the Red Zone stuff it was like keep the big plays down get a stop in the red zone and and that’s how you’re going to do it and uh made sense it was kind of kind of a classic approach um but yeah it’s was just strange because I didn’t I didn’t come out of the 2016 season being like well defense was the problem Nebraska’s got to fix that like I felt they were too like middle of the road across the board for there to be one Higher that that was going to drastically change where they were at going into 17 yeah and that’s and that’s a good point too like looking for points of emphasis that might give you hope and maybe that making that change could have or we were hoping that it would send us in the right direction but whether it’s Brandon stats or uh Brian talking about us being a paper tiger like we we kind of covered the things that went wrong or things that we thought you know weren’t legit or were kind of fake numbers but like any good Husker fan I would say at least me and TJ and you got to blindly like try and put all that stuff aside and just talk yourself into how is this going to work what’s what what are there any positives out of this so I’m curious for both Ryan and Brandon what was the point or was there a point in this era where there was a possibility that this thing might work whether it’s the 2015 2016 or 2017 season was there ever a point they were like hey okay maybe this is something that could work out if if if we just keep doing what we’re doing yeah I mean beyond the obvious like s-0 start I’d have to say the the Foster Farms Bowl um against UCLA had people encouraged because it they won in like a smash Mouse style in that game like they ran the ball very effectively at UCLA um and Riley after the game um he was over the moon about it like he really thought that was a big moment for that program I remember how he was just smiling and he I I happened to be right next to him there was a long walk he had to take from like the press conference area back to sort of where the buses were and he was on a golf cart he’s like hey hop on in you know like you want and all that stuff like he was just like ecstatic of that evening and how it had gone and I think that bought them some Goodwill in 2016 going into that off season you know it’s easy to forget now but people have kind of been like you know they did beat Michigan State at the end of the year that was fun and they they won in kind of a old school Nebraska away in this bowl game um and so even though it’s easy to kind of mock though oh they got there because of their GPA or whatever at the five and seven record they made the most of that situation they embraced it they went there and he got those guys to really um ball out for that bowl game and understand like what was at stake and so um I thought for as tough as the first year went to get back to your question it ended in a way that people like okay okay all right now we had some there were some games that should have been won in there and Illinois game is tough to you know scratch from my memory but um you gave some hope to us and uh some some thinking that this could go in the right direction and the other part was they were always like in on sort of like bigname recruits and I think Keith Williams for instance is like a really good wide receivers coach that’s proven by how he’s gotten hired in the NFL like at teaching the trade um the one thing was he was always in on guys who are like interesting names what would unfortunately happen is they would get close and they would either not get those guys at the end or that it just wouldn’t materialize when they got here but there was like a positivity along the ride with certain recruiting names like oh they’re in the top three for this guy and so the recruit Nicks out there were always kind of I think encouraged that they might be around the corner from from some pretty big dudes and kind of kept the the beach ball in the air too Brandon thoughts yeah I mean if if you’re approaching it from the point of view of like okay we’re you know we’re consciously like we’re where we we’ve heard all of the stuff about nine and four and you know recognize finishing or losing four out of your last seven in 2016 like I still think you know if you’re kind of trying to view it the best possible light like what’s the best this could possibly go like you can make an argument for a little bit of momentum going into 2017 too uh you had Dio like you know at the point where that was still mostly an unknown in the spring and summer you had Tanner Lee who who has yet to come up but uh you know the Mannings favorite quarterback that has ever appeared at their their passing camp or at least that’s how how I remember it um he was there for sure let’s let’s go with that um so he had those pieces of it and and you know to Brian’s Point like the recruiting kind of throughout was was remarkably consistent and uh they were consistently in on guys that seemed like they were they were really close to kind of just improving the overall Talent level from where Nebraska’s at so it was it was it was it’s a strange three years when you look at them kind of all together and try to knit together the The Narrative Arc of this there isn’t so much of an arc it just kind of was was a little bit flat and occasionally it tilted up a little bit occasionally it tilted down but um just a strange strange tenure yeah yeah what what you might what you might expect from a career 500 Coach so ahead man no just like I guess piggybacking off of that you know at least like you know I’m thinking ahead to like our next one about the Scott Frost era you know all these in this whole series we look you look through each coach um and you kind of try to pick out okay well what was what was the biggest win or the biggest couple of wins um and I will say at least during the Riley era there were a couple where it kind of did feel like oh maybe this is going to work um you know albeit it was they were you know there were probably all the options were in the first season and a half or so um but you know Brian just mentioned the F Foster Farms Bowl um there was a couple other wins there u in in the first year and and uh that I think got people a little bit excited um Brian you know what do you know do you think the biggest win of the Riley era was Foster Farms bowl or is it maybe Oregon even though they finished poorly or or Michigan State at home who was who was ranked top 10 I believe yeah um I think it I would maybe say Oregon just because of the environment and like you know his his history having been at Oregon State um it helped you know catapult um that 7 and0 season Michigan state would have to be right up there because of where um you know Sparty was ranked that team made the playoffs didn’t they I think yeah did they still get in um I think I think I got blanked by somebody in the playoff but they made it yeah and you know what was fascinating about the Michigan State game was the offense was humming in such a way in the fourth quarter of that I remember thinking even when they got the ball like remember they had to go like 90 yards on the last drive and I was like they got a fighting shot here like it just felt like that uh Michigan State’s DBS were in a Blender at that point and like uh Tommy and Jordan had a little something cooking the old roommates combination and they hit like that big 30 yard right off the bat and you’re like this is totally happening and then they got away with one that should have been picked off in the end zone I remember just before the Brandon Riley um touchdown but that one was a special moment um and uh where’re this is easy to dog on I course in a podcast like this but I do remember he held a little session with the media about how before that game about how he was confident in the direction this thing was heading and he said we’re going to win tonight he said I just like we’re going to win this game tonight and um yeah he called it so I would I would say those those those games come to mind um and yeah they probably a few more he has a couple more memorable winds than probably Frost did honestly like when you go through it so um you you have to say that I I remember for both of those games for different reasons but for Michigan State you know right up to you know that the 15 season right up to the Iowa game but six and six was you know we didn’t know we were going to go to a Bull game at 5- seven so six and six was still on the table for that Michigan State game they come in as a top 10 team and then Oregon was just more about like if we believe we want to believe this thing is going to the next level this season we got to win this game but for both of those we were close enough to I don’t know about the The Glory Days but we were close enough to the feeling okay we we can just say Callahan was a blip on the radar Pini was then pretty good again and so even then before we lived through the frost era um even then the idea of missing a bll game was pretty foreign and I just remember this feeling of for both of those games like desperation we absolutely like I can’t imagine losing to Michigan State I can’t imagine losing to Oregon here and so those those felt like disproportionately big wins and I looking back I don’t know maybe it doesn’t matter as much but those those felt so important at the time Brandon any other thoughts on that no I think those are the two I mean I think practically speaking the best team Riley beat at Nebraska was was that Michigan State team I think symbolically with who the opponent was when it was in the season uh the Oregon game is is probably comes to mind as the biggest one you know with that point it’s like hey beat Oregon sure they were right 22nd and would go on to I think before before dat they weren’t they weren’t the Oregon of Chip Kelly era but we didn’t fully know that at that point um and you know Nebraska was undefeated after after that one still so yeah you had some momentum after that one y I thought I was I got a question in here Brian about sort of the biggest turning point of the Riley era and whether that was the sort of how bad they looked at the end of the 2016 season or maybe the loss to or Northern Illinois in 2017 I think your point about the Illinois loss in year one is a really good one though too because I just remember so many times of thinking okay we I this isn’t going to work but I don’t want to I don’t want to go through another new coach I don’t want to go through another transition year but also I can’t convince myself that this is going to work like I feel like at points through all three seasons it felt like that but do you have any thoughts of when it was like maybe a turning point of saying okay this really isn’t going to work or a turning point of just saying it’s over it’s over one is probably Northern Illinois but anyway yeah you’re right it was over after Northern Illinois I mean when sea came down and did he rarely talked in the media and he came down to the post game room and that was the sure sign like okay he’s he’s on the ledge here and uh talked about the program and he was gone within that week and then you knew that they were just going to hire someone to like make them move and and get the next guy and I think the coaching staff kind of realized that those were the end of 2017 was full of depressing like games to cover like the game at Penn State like we always my cooworker Michael Bruns and I always joke about games that that scroll well you know like they look good on the the crawler at the bottom of the screen and that game I think what did it end up it was a 564 5644 it looks like it was like a thriller like you know like back and forth and it was like the biggest mismatch you ever saw you know saquin Barkley takes like the second carry like down the Seline for 55 yards yeah and those those were games where it’s just like man what are we covering here so it got really tough after Northern Illinois for sure um as far as like I think the bloodbath Iowa game was really cly like it just it felt like that season’s momentum whether you thought they were a paper tiger or they were deserving of their record it kind of uh leaned more toward the paper tiger um Viewpoint after that performance and that really hurt and kind of hurt the perception of that season even though the record was good Brandon any any other thoughts on that no I I I I kind of Point towards Iowa as well um those Brian used that one like you can make an argument you I mentioned it earlier like Nebraska wasn’t going to beat Ohio State but like to Common so when I when I watch and cover these games like I chart every play it’s mostly just for like my own use like I’m they’re busy like Ohio state was the first time where I like I just put my notebook away I was like there’s there’s no point like I’m not going to use this data um because it’s 56 to nothing or or you know what it was at that point so that was a pretty rough one too you know if you wanted to be in advance of of the the true turning point which I do think was probably that Iowa game uh that might have been it when they just couldn’t even like put up a put up a a fight for for even a quarter in that game uh it’s pretty pretty telling sign I think of what was to come yeah um maybe if they had been doing squats they could have put up a better fight against Iowa um Brandon that’s incredible by the way that you chart every play um I’m very I’m very impressed by that um oh don’t dpy it’s not that impressive I maybe made too much of that just trying to an anecdote to tell you about how bad that game was as if the score didn’t indicate well Brian you you talked about it a little bit for some reason the recruiting stuff really sticks into my mind from that era um you had the calibraska thing and I think didn’t didn’t also like he he was on this thing of wanting to make Nebraska Nebraska America’s team you know we’re in we’re in the middle of the country and got everything you want here here in Lincoln Nebraska kind of thing um and they brought in some pretty decent classes I mean kind of hovering right outside of or in you know right near the top 25 range um what’s your recollection of that recruiting operation I remember at one point there was a belief that we could get like all five of these guys from Cali like kesan Jr was one but uh there was the defensive back who went to I think he went to ended up in at Oregon and is now in the NFL his name is escaping me um there were some like big time guys and I think we only got one or two of them and we got sort of the least impactful ones but um what’s your recollection of that whole recruiting situation yeah first off Riley hired some pretty good people around him like for instance Ryan Gunderson was a guy who was like in the uh high up in the recruiting office offices and he’s done really well now as a coach like he was a really sharp mind and you know Trent Bray was a great recruiter and look where he is now um you know I I there were a lot of guys on his staff who um could put you in the hunt um I think uh what Nebraska was lacking like a year or so in was sort of um the evidence to some guys like you know that they could be a championship program and it so they could get close you know they could get top three top four were certain guys but they would they would not quite make the cut and you’re right it felt like they won some battles where it looked good as a headline but it wasn’t going to translate that way and I’m not here to kick on kesan Jr or anything like that but when the first time I saw him on campus I was like yeah that’s not going to be that big a deal I think don’t think so um yeah I mean there were some of those where it it’s it looked and sounded good uh wide receiver recruiting is the best example I’ll just go back to it quick because I felt like Keith Williams um was always like a guy who would give you a shot at people um that you really wanted but it was tough to sort of close the deal or they had like so many guys who were not here for a year you know that came through that wide receiver room um and it’s kind of been a trend that Nebraska has to kick now um I thought they recruited okay though like I I thought they they were the first staff I remember that made Friday Night Lights like the thing it it it was a big deal like when they were here um like I said Micah Parson’s being in here and stuff like that so they had some innovative ideas and um they were on the right track as far as that goes he had like Billy Dean as his GM and you can say what you want as like if that was useful or not but he was a little ahead of the curve on some of that stuff like I mean now you know Matt rule has a has a lot of that going on um with with those people and those sort of positions and so um some of that like it was easy to Snicker at like okay is this guy really useful to the operation but I do think he he did some things that now you’re seeing as commonplace at a lot of different programs it just just didn’t translate to WIS yeah Brian I I kind of recall you know despite the season in 2018 going completely off the rails that they even still had some decent recruiting moment momentum uh for that class um is that accurate or they how are they recruiting that that kind of year where everything went South it was the it was 2017 season 2018 recruiting class no yeah sorry sorry they were doing really you’re right in your memory there they were doing quite well like leading into the season and it’s just one of those things where you hit a wall where like recruits you know they’re not dumb they realize by the end of September what we all do like the writing’s on the wall with this coach so they’re just waiting to see what happens um so you basically had it felt like a lame duck staff the last two months so whatever they had worked for and I felt bad for some of those recruiting operation guys because they had really had some some good ideas and I think put Nebraska in place with some people if they had had like a nine or 10- win season but everybody just knew three games in it’s going to be a different staff next year probably and the recruits realized that quickly too and so um basically a Cycle’s worth of work was out the window with a lot of Prof ects within a month of that season yeah I mean recruiting classes are recruiting classes but they’re great and all but it really just comes down to what you do with them when they get here and so regardless of the recruiting situation I think we could all agree even though we look at back on it 20 hindsight 2020 it just probably wasn’t going to work and so I guess my last question would be out of those three seasons with 2017 falling apart pretty darn quick um and then with 2015 and the under performance with all that NFL talent that was brought over from the Pini era in the locker room um we underperformed with that Talent on the field and then in 2016 you start off seven and0 you finally have some momentum things are looking good and then we just completely crap the bed ending That season getting the doors blown off by the good teams um and not really even competing anymore which one of those seasons do you think is probably the best indicator was it initially underperforming or was it the 27th season falling apart or 2016 just not being able to to hold on to that momentum um 20 2016 to me was like the best indicator in in some ways it was like uh I feel like Riley over time he was always that guy capable of getting you to you know an eight or nine win season but I also feel like the metrics didn’t as as Brandon said with that team didn’t add up completely so even during that year um I sometimes felt bad for the the Riley staff because I don’t know that the general public all felt this way but it seemed like one of those assignments that maybe this is easy to say in hindsight was just destined to fail to me like I I he felt like a sometimes programs hire that coach that is sort of a bridge to whatever’s next and even though the frost ER was a debacle I think when he was hired there was a belief like that that first you know that there was this thought like man this could go Skyhigh like there was that real feeling of like look what he did at UCF he’s he’s had an undefeated season and there were with Pini there was the 03 experience with him as the DC and stuff and so he had that and Riley just had none of that ever behind where you were like think where the like fans were thinking like I could picture this being like an 11 or 12 like you couldn’t get your imagination to that point I couldn’t maybe some people could I never thought like that’s what it was going to be under him and when it’s that way it’s tough to be here a long time and I’ll throw in one more point because I was thinking about this too it he was 61 when he was hired and it shouldn’t have been like a big question but that was part of the conversation 2 right away fairly or unfairly he got asked about it at his opening press conference and there was a feeling like you didn’t have that coach that was like you know people love that coach who’s like in that 45 to 55 range you know it’s like he’s going to be here 20 years you pict you can talk yourself into that even though that rarely happens anymore with Riley um he had to there was that too that you had to kind of bad away like you know what’s this five six years at Max you know some people would say and it’s kind of a silly thing to think about um because there are coaches who’ve been very successful well beyond that but when you think about it most of those guys were establish themselves like a Sabin or somebody establish them at a program like in their 50s or whatever and and then they get older through the program but they don’t necessarily come to that spot like in their 60s and have to deal with that question and I know that’s not necessarily fair but that was definitely um it was in the first press conference and it was like part of the the thing too where I I I think some there were just these little things that kind of added up and and people had trouble sort of getting behind the idea this was going to go a long time or be ultra successful never underestimated a delusional Husker fan we will talk ourselves in anything um you know one more thing about his age at the time is the fact that there were Decades of data and information to examine which all pointed to him being a 500 Coach I don’t have I mentioned that I don’t know if I mentioned you haven’t you haven’t said that yet TJ that’s all pointed to winning no no championships I don’t I can’t remember if I’ve mentioned that Brandon any other any thoughts on that Brandon uh yeah I mean for me I think the most uh representative sample of of Riley was probably was probably 2015 in my mind like you had a team that was kind of say seven wins good didn’t get some breaks lost a bunch of on score games so you ended up five and seven you know we already talked about how that flipped 9 and4 that’s kind of his Oregon State tenure in in two years it’s like yeah you know there’re like he’s gotten them to a point where they’re like say six and six good at the start of every year that’s where you can start and like you know you’ll have a year where you might jump up to nine you know you’ll have a year where you might fall down to five or four um and like once you knew like that’s what it that hadn’t changed we you had gotten the additional resources that Nebraska provides and it’s still that’s still kind of you know your range as as a coach um you know it it wasn’t gonna it wasn’t going to work so not saying I knew that at the end of 2015 but with benefit of hindsight like I’m like oh yeah it was kind of all there if you just knew what was going to come down the road yeah yeah well really really interesting and engaging discussion guys this brings us to the final verdict of the common fans the last question we’re going to examine today the main question of the day was the Mike Riley hire the biggest Miss of the post Osborne era and I want to make a couple points before we dive in on this I think something we need to consider is that after firing Pini I would at least suggest Nebraska was in a much more vulnerable place than where we were after firing Callahan and perhaps his fans I don’t remember thinking about it like that I I don’t know that you know we were thinking about it that way but back it was really important to get this right and you know I think you you could have made the argument well Callahan was a blip on the radar tal Pini got us back to respectability um but I think given all the changes going on in college football you know this is another good example of the constant churn and turnover of different athletic directors and different coaches was it was like the the timing of what this happened at Nebraska is like the worst possible timing against the backdrop of the bigger changes going on in college football where it really helps to have some stability either at the Day ad level or the coach level or whatever it might be so I would suggest I think like we couldn’t really afford to get it wrong and you know Brian that’s really really interesting to your point about Whittingham I had forgotten that there were some other young coaches out there Justin fente Tom Herman Mike Gundy remember those names I think I could be convinced that Craig bu would have been not the home run I’m talking about but would have been a better higher than Mike riy for the Big 10 um and the other thing I would say is act like Nebraska go and get could be LSU going to get Brian Kelly be USC going to get Lincoln Riley I don’t know who that would be but but be that program be the blue Bud that we are and go get a go money whip a proven winner if you’re going to fire a nine you know nine1 win coach um so I’m just I I think those are some important points to consider and the last thing I’ll say is like obviously Frost Frost record is demonstrably worse than than Riley’s uh you know he never even had a winning season never went to a Bull game and so this is not to let Frost off the hook but I just this is the one that my mind wanders more than anything because of the talent on the roster because of where the program was going in could the entire last decade of Nebraska football be completely different and if we hadn’t hired Riley and what does that make this the biggest Miss of the post osbor era oh man um you thought have you thought about this at all TJ no it does it doesn’t it doesn’t keep me up at night at all it’s the higher that makes the Le it was the higher that made the least amount of sense to me um of all of them and I I like how you framed that setup because with frost everybody’s like yeah Frost yeah you know I mean that was a that was the common opinion um this was the out of left field one um um and there was a lot at stake because you were you were still riding that kind of nine 10 wins like a lot of a lot of driveby analysts of Nebraska football act like the last 20 years have just been all a train wreck there’s been definitely some of that but um the I mean the Pini era as far as wins and losses where was a spot like a lot of programs would have you know killed the we make this point all the time that’s exactly right and so um if you’re going to make that move and by the way I don’t think pen was long for Nebraska at that point when he left either like I know this can all be about I course decision and all that but um I know for a fact he was intrigued in other options along the way um and so I I think that relationship had probably worn itself out so it was time it was about that time where something was going to have to happen um but I could be talked into it being the biggest Miss just because it’s the most like what what’s this you know like kind of like what’s that but then I I I just settle back on that point like I felt like there’s sort of it was that strange era that you can go look at every Power program in their history and they have that guy sometimes for two or three years where it’s just like everybody kind of knows it’s got to be this this walkway into another era and it’s going you’re going to have to get through it and maybe that’s easy to say now looking back on it but I did feel that way at times covering it and so um in that way it was it’s like something where yeah it was a Miss but it was also something that maybe just had to happen for Husker football to kind of figure it out to to get to where they are um and as an aside um going back real quick to the Foster Farms bow um it was mentioned how bulll games were sort of you know expected at that point point I remember there was so such low care that Nebraska was in a bowl game or in that bowl game that they had a Roundtable media event a few days before the Foster Farms Bull and we happened to fly out early and we were like one there’s only like two or three Nebraska representatives there and if you combine that now with like if Matt rule gets this team to a bowl game the next year and what it’s going to be like in his that like you know if they’re on site and like how many people are going to be there uh it’s going to be an incredible difference and I I finish with that point only to say Riley was in a very tricky situation because that it was like expected that a certain standard was established that you’re supposed to meet this whereas now the coaches since then have like this bar that’s pretty low to the ground to be honest like as far as get over that and then and then it’ll raise and the pressure will be on as it always is around here but that’s sort of a nice thing for for Rule and it was for frost if he would have taken advantage of to have at their disposal to have that bar of wi total so low to the ground and Riley did not have the the benefit of that and um you know it played out probably about as you would expect when you kind of look back at it you might say he was our Howard schnellenberger uh our our Oklahoma era Howard schb anyway sorry uh Brandon what do you think yeah it’s it’s it’s a tough one like I I agree with all your points PJ about other options from coaching I think the the big mystery piece of this for me is well I don’t know if Nebraska could have money whipped a guy at that stage I I I really don’t because and and Brian brought up a really good point of like Bo Pini you know we’d heard reports and Seasons leading up to that like oh maybe Miami’s interested maybe he’s interested in Miami that piece of it um because Bo maybe had some of those feelings like you know if a guy gets contact and be like hey what do you think about this Nebraska job he’s probably going to call the guy the former hit coach you fired a nine- win coach which we know doesn’t play well um so I wonder what like the the market reception would have been like for Nebraska if it had been out there more than it was um I I I really do I don’t know if and I don’t remember who was in that Carousel class that year I’m sure you could go back and look and find somebody who’s maybe getting like their first G5 job and be like a if you just hired them I’m not saying this is what anybody’s doing like but that’s kind of like the best hire I think that Nebraska maybe realistically could have made because I don’t think I mean the Whittingham thing would have been super interesting like in in the coaching hires that have come up since then at Nebraska I’ve thought he’d be he’d be great both times if if you’re talking if you knew this was a bridge coach going in which you’d ever assume if you’re an ad like B would have been really intriguing I agree it’s like okay let’s just play some big 10 football for a little bit and and and see where we’re at three or four years down the road biggest Miss I like I like the Riley hire more than Callahan for for one reason and you know you said it practically speaking in terms of results Frost was the biggest Miss but it’ll never be viewed that way because right you had to get Frost like he was a guy you had to get him um at least with Riley you had somebody who said this is my guy this is how we’re going to do it this is what it’s going to be with Callahan you knew it was basically like the fifth Choice um so I might shade towards Callahan but he he had some better results than Riley did overall well maybe not no I’m gonna go with Callahan I’m go with Callahan that’s an excellent answer as you know I I strongly dislike Bill Callan and it’s quite personal for me so I won’t argue with you on that Jeffrey what do you think uh Brandon Kudos man finally somebody going against TJ’s grain and disagreeing with him he’s always just trying to he’s trying to push his agenda on everybody else finally posted the question je if we have some things we need to work out separately we can do that I just posted the question Jee okay no after after saying that I agree I think I think it was I guess Miss I guess this is just how I would word it it’s just the Optics of the higher itself I thought were really really bad because what we kind of talked about earlier was we kind of just hired him because he’s not B in my opin he was just the opposite of him and I feel like that decision to the overall public it just made us look kind of I don’t know incompetent like we didn’t do anything else really to the public eye in the public ey just looked like we chose this guy for one reason not because of his resume or his record simply because he was a nice guy and he wasn’t V and I think for that reason alone I thought it was probably our biggest Miss all right yeah I I’m I’m kind of with you there Jeff a little bit just if you’re going results based I mean yeah it was it was a pretty big Miss um as we’ve mentioned ad nauseum about you know going from a perennial nine win coach to you know TJ a career 500 Coach um I don’t know Brandon brings up some good points though with the Callahan thing and it you know not being like you know your fifth choice or whatever it might be um yeah I I I’ll say yeah it was the biggest Miss um just just thinking about where you came from and and and you know kind of agreeing with Jeff you don’t it doesn’t always work to fire the fiery hot-headed guy and hire Mr Rogers um you know the I I get I kind of get where they’re coming from I’m trying to do that but this isn’t like Corporate America you know it’s it’s football um These Guys these coaches have to have at least little bit of fire in him I mean even Tom Tom Osborne had some fire in him you know he’s a unbelievably nice guy never cursed and all that so in that respect similar to Mike Riley but I still think he you know from my supremely biased opinion Tom Osborne had fire and you know you occasionally I think saw that um but yeah long rambling answer but yeah I’ll say he was the biggest Miss of the post real quick too real quick I’m starting to back fedal now because now it’s like George castanza where if everything you do is wrong then the opposite would have to be right so maybe they were on to something there the opposite of Bo Pini would have to be correct never mind I changed my mind it was not the biggest Miss they made the right decision he didn’t have enough time you are our resident George castanza Jeff um I’m gonna go with yes it was the biggest Miss um I think I think you know Bill Callahan was a worse college coach uh I despise bill kah hand um we don’t we’ve already talked about that so we don’t have to talk about it again but I think because of the timing point that I mentioned and I think the the program was in a much more fragile Place post Pini than it was post solich and it was much more important to get that higher right um I think Bo showed you know you could he bounced back pretty quickly and got us back to respectability pretty quickly post cahan certainly that was with a lot of Callahan’s recruits but either way Bo got it done um and so I think for the for the Riley hire um the fact that it wasn’t you know you had to really talk yourself into it as we’ve said throughout the last hour plus you kind of had to talk yourself into figuring out how this was going to work and also combined with like the expectations at Nebraska like we are playing for championships and even now the bar is lower for Matt Rule now but as soon as he gets back to a bll game the expectation will be championships again that will always be the case at Nebraska as it should be and so I just think um for all those reasons um I think Riley was the biggest Miss um again I don’t I don’t have the answer on who the right guy would have been to your point Brandon um but you know that’s that’s why athletic directors make a lot of money to figure out the answers to those questions um super awesome conversation guys um we’re gonna give Brian the last word but Brandon anything else to add no um I know it kind of became annoying when their football fortunes weren’t going so well but feel like worth noting Mike Ry legitimately one of the best people I’ve ever interacted with like if you were to call him today and say hey I need help with something even if it’s just like a quote for a story a background for a story he would do it um and that’s worth mentioning and we’re gonna make throughout this whole thing until now I I can’t believe we made it through without a Bruce Reed mention the the guy who the Special Teams coordinator who more people knew his salary than I think any special teams coordinator in the history of sport so honorable mention to him I love that I love that yeah and you know what that’s a great point on Riley and he’s undeniably good man and we wish him well in the new role on the the college football playoff committee um but I still wish Nebraska had never hired a Brian any final thoughts uh yeah um yeah 450 was a read salary right was that who could forget 50k um no this was a good exercise for me guys uh rej jogging my memory on some of the things sometimes they blend together a little bit um Brandon’s point at the end is is a is a good one to make too people might remember um he actually did a press conference after he was fired yes which is very rare doc Sadler did that as well um but that’s that’s a very odd uh circumstance that has happened twice that I remember in husker Athletics and the only time I remember with the football coach usually it’s pretty sour ending so um I always appreciated the way he handled you see a lot about people um in how they handle a season where it’s just off the rails where you kind of know that it might be over and it’s it’s kind of a delicate balance between media and the coach and you you know that um there’s going to be some tough critiques that you send out and that they’re going to have to take and uh I I thought him and his staff always handle that with class but um tough situation he walked into honestly I think with uh to to you know and um it the record as it ends up at 500 is uh actually better than the guy that came after him which nobody would have bet on so I’ll let you guys get to that one with the enthusiasm on the next one well I appreciate it very much thanks so much to uh special guest Brandon Bogle thanks so much to featured guest for this episode Brian kristoferson uh speaking of that next episode uh stick around common fans the next episode how in the world did Scott Frost not work at Nebraska uh bound to be a very uh energetic and engaging discussion uh thanks for hanging with us as always common fans we will be back at you soon as always in the meantime gbr for life [Music] [Music] a [Music] [Music]