Pat Mayo talks to Adam Pranica about the business of podcasting. How to evolve your content over a long period of time, the difference between podcasting as a hobby and as a professional, tips to getting started, mistakes to avoid, and how the industry has changed since they’ve started their shows.
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things that you mention as being the most critical to starting a podcast scheduling being number one having that consistent release schedule the only other thing that I would add on that is make sure your audio is good for whatever that first episode is because I have listened and started with some podcasts that have bad audio and just I can’t do it sounds too bad yeah uh you’re exactly right about that and that’s always the second thing that I say after schedule my own podcasts when I go back and listen to those first ones like those were the best mics that you could have for podcasting like those were podcast specific microphones were they the yeti yeah yeah yeah and it sounds fine but it doesn’t sound like an sm7 experience Batman experience Batman [Music] experience Batman experience experience welcome to the pat Mayo experience presented by Underdog fantasy code Mayo at Underdog fantasy right now is going to get you a deposit bonus of up to 250 bucks and it helps me run the show for free all the time so you got to do it all right smash the like we’re here sub to the pat Mayo experience audio podcast Reading and Review on Spotify if you have like an extra 13 seconds who knows this is one show I’ve been looking forward to for a very long time Adam pranica host of the greatest Tre and the greatest generation and Myriad other things as well is on the line with me it’s really strange Adam I have listened to your podcast more than any other podcast over the past seven years it’s amazing it’s I mean I go on people’s shows and they tell me that like hey you’re the reason I got into podcasting and starting a golf podcast and you know they they’ve listened to my show every week and they have for just as long and it’s weird to be on the other side of that coin this is really exciting for me I’m I’m GNA I’m G to try to make you feel comfortable we meet a lot of our listeners when we’re out doing live shows around the country and many of them are just very nervous to say hi many very nervous to shake hands or get a hug or whatever I’m gonna make this as comfortable as possible for you I appreciate that I I mean I’m in my comfort zone here right now so maybe I can lean into it I actually went to two of your guys’ Toronto live shows when they came to the Great Hall wow that was a great venue I and I was like were able to meet because our Toronto shows are notably lit they are I was lit at both those shows and my I got I dragged my wife to one of them were you at the show in Toronto when for some reason two people were making out in the balcony like in full view of everyone not only that I was sitting in the balcony that was you it was me yeah it was me and my wife yeah our show has an effect on people I well I mean that’s actually a good jumping in point because there’s a couple like industry things that I do want to talk to you about but I’ve talked to this about some other people who do podcasts and they tour around either around the States going into Canada even overseas and I’ve always thought about doing it is it something you do for the fans is it a loss leader like do you guys actually make money by going on tour because I know like you guys charge per ticket but I can’t imagine that the transportation cost the hotel cost getting a producer on site coming up with the show itself having to pre-record all your material more than likely before you go out on the road just seems like the logistics would make that a nightmare uh it’s tons fun and we love to do it and it used to be a way that we earned uh but up until a couple years ago that stopped I mean the economy of everything has changed over the last few years but especially our touring economy it got so expensive to do we kind of got our butts kicked on the very last tour that we went out on and part of it is like we go to to bigger cities where staying in hotels is expensive where flying into and out of is expensive uh but there’s really no there’s nothing better than doing our silly show in front of people and like hearing the the feedback instantly and just having a great time with people who love the same thing that you do uh for like 90 minutes and everyone’s drinking and having a blast and we’re meeting a bunch of them before or after the show like we’re never going to stop touring But to answer your question like yeah we used to earn money and pretty good money over the course of the years that we toured and that’s kind of slowed down a little bit and turned into kind of a neutral uh part of our business I think even if it just it’s a break even or even a slight loss it would still be worth it just for that I mean a the personal engagement that you get the enjoyment out of doing it but I would imagine anyone who comes to those shows has a good time and you basically have a a listener for life at that point it really feels that way we have people come to our shows uh year after year and we recognize them over the years as we have our interactions and our and our meet and greets with them it’s great to I mean and that’s really the thing that before we went out on tour it doing a podcast is really isolating right for for years I just did it in my basement with a buddy of mine who lived across the country and you you you look at your own metrics and it feels like you’re generating an audience and it kind of feels unbelievable when you’re just looking at the numers until you actually go out there and load into a venue where you’ve seen Rock shows before and like get ready to do a show for hundreds of people who are there to see you doing the thing that you’re used to doing in a basement like as soon as we turned the corner on our show and it became that kind of thing it it changed our lives and it changed the way that we looked at our work what was the first one like like how nerve-wracking was that our very first show was in Seattle in by in by far the smallest venue we’ve ever done a show and I think 40 people came how many were family members oh I want to say like four like like very few and they were seated right up front like like our very closest friends and family were right up front and the smallest shows are the most nerve-wracking because you can see every face like in in perfect detail it’s like the bigger shows I feel like are easier because it’s just kind of a blur in the darkness and it’s a sound that you feel instead of like all these individual Expressions so this very first show we did was was for 40 people by far the most nervous I’ve ever been to do a live show but it was just intoxicating to feel like like my my friend and my co-host Benjamin R Harrison he’s like a great laugher and a generous comedy person and like until you do comedy in front of an audience you really don’t know if you’re a funny person and it felt great to be funny in in front of folks and that’s like one of the main reasons we do the show it’s one of the reasons that we do the live show specifically I I wonder if you had this too that going into the first live show so I think I’m going to start doing them or at least on location experiences if I’m going to go do my show on location somewhere anyway so yeah I’m going to the President’s Cup in Montreal in September a lot of the crew is going just different shows from across our Network like hey what if we just set up somewhere the Friday night that we’re up there and just go do a live show there like we’ll have because I just worry that I’m gonna do one of these shows and no one [ __ ] shows up I promise you that’s not gonna happen you’re G to be surprised people are gonna show up and you’re gonna have a great time yeah I feel like I would have a great time like that really feels like a good atmosphere for me and the difference between my show and I mean there’s a lot of differences between our shows but even just listening to because when you do produce audio and video for that matter like I can I can’t hear because you guys are seamless with it where the cuts come in like when stuff gets cut out when stuff doesn’t get cut out obviously you have the transitional audio bumpers in there for I assume for editing purposes just makes a very seamless onetoone here goes an ad break very little editing actually happens in my show because it’s so time sensitive that we need to turn it over right away now I did have one guest make a very inappropriate holocaust joke one time that I did cut out of the show and I felt like you know what that probably doesn’t need to be in the show on this one it was actually quite funny but uh probably I’m just going to draw a line through the prepared holocaust joke I had uh for our show today just gonna go ahead and not do that one if it trumps that one and it’s funny because it would be the one guest that you would never expected to come from like it just came out the left field was like whoa we all just kind of sat there like can’t believe he said that and we ended up cutting that out but normally like you guys do an immense amount of audio production like even quality assurance on each episode I can assure you that that sort of quality assurance does not happen on my show is it because you guys were industry professionals before starting the show that you were just so used to like hey the finished product needs to be an actual finished product you know if we could submit a third draft and then a final draft that is so much more important and better especially for the listener and the quality of the show rather than Pat hits record Pat stops he Tops and Tails and sends it to the world I mean I was a professional video producer and editor for a dozen years before we started doing the podcast so it felt not only natural but like an obligation to edit my own work at that point like I I’m envious of the shows that can just record live and put it out there and be done with it it’s just not in my nature to do something like that and it’s not because I’m afraid I’ll tell a holocaust joke it’s because I like uh I like making things as as tight as possible this was as a profession like as a as a corporate video producer especially like part of my job was was tightening up Executives who will would like wander around their prepared remarks and like get them down to like the core subject that they’re they’re trying to convey to Their audience so it’s not like we’re cutting out 20 minutes of greatest gen before it goes out but if there’s any dead air or anything if there is a moment where uh where one of us misspeaks or stammers like we’re going to we’re going to retake the beginning of a comment and keep going and the show really flows like you’ve seen enough live shows to know that like it’s we don’t do a lot of editing of ourselves the difference between our live shows and our edited shows I think are imperceptible but we have to QA our shows it’s just like in our nature it’s why we ever produced like I would hate the idea of putting something out there that got past the goalie somehow that made a person feel bad or was the unintended holocaust joke if we’re gonna keep going back to that like you just you don’t want to make an unforced error like that and it’s an easy way to just like take an extra hour out of a week and go like okay this is the show we’re going to put out and and more than editing for Content it’s really editing for comedy because if we’re bantering our way into a joke that’s supported by a clip from a Star Trek show or a movie that we’re in or supported by other uh TV show that’s on our mind or a movie that we love like we’re constantly thinking of ways to make the show funnier like additively and it’s an opportunity for us to do that that if we just recorded the show and put it out we wouldn’t have so when I first started doing this like I’ve had this show since 2010 and then I kind of went on hi as I went back to college to learn how to actually both be a broadcaster and all the technical aspects before then it was like hey here’s a microphone that really sucks I’ll plug it into my laptop and talk to Blog Talk Radio and that will record itself so that went on Hiatus but when I ended up at the fantasy Network in 2013 I was like well there’s a podcast Studio here I might as well bring back my podcast and I was doing it three times a week uh during football season then once a week or twice a week after that like it was just something extra that I was doing which fortunately I got it in writing that I still owned the feed and that they didn’t which was just a huge win I don’t know oh good they they did not realized what they were signing away at that point when I when I presented them this legal document that I had drawn up off of something I Googled may maybe I shouldn’t say that maybe it they’ll come back and be like yeah not a binding contract it’s been a while you were fortunate to get started early too because I mean now that everyone has a podcast it’s hard to distinguish yourself but if you started back then you really have a leg up well it’s funny because there’s a like the Fant footballers also around the same time kind of started up with me and like we had been working together a little bit and I had left the fantasy Network for DraftKings in 2017 we had built up our YouTube channel like my YouTube channel but it was theirs to around 880,000 100,000 Subs whatever it might have been and we were about on Pace with each other but the moment that I left and went somewhere else it just reset everything and I was like if I had just done this on my own to begin with it would have been I I wouldn’t have been and I’m still not back up to that that point just because it’s so hard like you said with so many people having content now that I I don’t know I think my show is good but I most definitely think the biggest thing I ever did was start one 15 years ago that was the the barrier to entry was so low and you get these people like the people who show up to your shows people that’ve been listening for 10 years 15 years if if you’re listening to a show for 15 straight years chances are you’re probably not going anywhere unless it dramatically takes a turn your metrics are so interesting to me because your subject matter is so timely like what you’re talking about is the thing that ha that happens right now and our show is about uh in our case like we have a classic Star Trek show about programming that came out 20 or 30 years ago and Star Trek shows that come out today like people go back and our back catalog and listen to older shows in a way that like does that happen for you are people going back in your stacks and listening to old EPS or is it always like the things that are coming out this week it’s all we do have one show that we do that is a comedy show that just gets mixed in and throughout the course of the years we’ve now just made it a segment during our football show every Wednesday for 20 minutes or 30 minutes of a three-hour show and then we kind of do a compilation of that towards the end of the year and piece each of the 18 or 19 weeks together into four two and a half hour shows and we have a dedicated feed for that that if people do want to go back but it’s has nothing to do with sports and it just has my best friend’s insane takes on it cus corner people should go subscribe to it right now if you want to laugh at someone who’s completely insane that thinks that it’s somehow he has the uh the appetite and food taste of a six-year-old and 86y old all at the same time it’s quite strange so uh so no hard Foods I guess or really really like very well done steak is also on that agenda oh no yeah just the worst the worst like any people really do think it’s a bit but I’m you know he’s the best man at my wedding I’ve been around him for a very long time that subscribed and then I unsubscribed in in the course of that description he just I I you think that he’s making up the takes they’re so bad but they’re just it’s it’s unbelievable like there’s a reason that we had to create a show around it like people need to hear these bad takes if only to shame him into having better takes but somehow it’s only emboldened him to make worse takes even though no one seems to agree with him that’s some real Edge Lord stuff right there very much so but don’t call him a h hipster because he hates hipsters because they all have twirly mustaches and apparently ride unicycles uh you lived in Seattle you must have saw a ton of ton of unicycles around I saw more unicycles than regular bicycles there and they were probably just than anything else really so you see those around Toronto no I’m in Halifax now I move from Toronto I everyone’s moving that that was the thing to do right after like pandemic middle of the pandemic get the [ __ ] out of Dodge that was the move good move I think so it just we’re around our families now I got two little kids raising kids in a condo downtown in a big City versus a medium to smaller sized city but you actually have a house for less money is is really the move and the fames here yeah yeah good idea you get the the built-in sitters how do you like La how was that transition I love it the transition was weird because uh my wife and I moved down here in March of 20 like pulled into the driveway the second week of March 2020 and then I think 3 days later uh everything was shut down it was wild um we got to know our neighbors really well which was great because we moved away from our friends and family in Seattle and that was part of the reason I felt a great amount of reluctance to leave but uh you know the pandemic really got us meeting folks uh for you know for dependency right for social dependency we were hanging out outside and having patio hangs and you know checking up on our neighbors and stuff for for months and months and it made La a really Pleasant and hospitable place in a way I wasn’t expecting and what a place to be outside year round if I had to do the pandemic in Seattle I would have driven myself crazy being in the cold and the rain like that but I understand that the conditions were really unique for arriving and for a while it was uh like a little scary to like leave everything we knew and to uh come to a brand new place uh in a situation like that but absolutely no regrets I love living in la I love eating and drinking and being able to go to Vegas uh almost anytime I want it’s so close uh it’s been great uh play golf all the time it’s it’s big fun make new friends all the time too like a lot of folks uh who I went to college with moved to LA to to work in the film industry and then and then many of them mov back for a variety of reasons and a lot of them told me like La sucks and the people aren’t nice and everyone’s all ladder climbing and stuff but that hasn’t been my experience everyone’s most people I meet here are pretty cool do you think that’s because you’re involved in sort of a niche and micro version of the entertainment industry because I was thinking about this the other someone had brought up Mr Beast to me and I was like I don’t know who that is and then I like went and looked at it it’s like this is the most popular person on the internet but I would have no reason to have ever encountered anything he had ever done and he could be walking down the street next to me I would have no idea who he was but if someone was the most like I mean he is one of the more famous people in the world at this point I would guess that 25 years ago if Russell Crowe was walking down the street like that’s Russell crow like everyone would just inevitably know who that is that it was it’s almost like when I like I’m very excited to talk to you today I’ve been listening to your podcast for ages there’s a very good chance people watching my show don’t know who you are and vice versa I bet yeah you know what I mean and I I just feel like that’s it’s such a weird thing that maybe that’s helping La a little bit that you know the celebrity culture the entertainment industrial complex is a bit more fractured now it I think it’s definitely that but I also think uh in a really good position because I don’t need it like I don’t need a favor from an industry person the way that someone starting out might or is is trying to create a network of folks uh from which they can get jobs or or referrals or whatever like I’m just here enjoying life in La doing a couple of comedy podcasts and like living my life and I and I know there’s a huge difference in those life Styles and the way a person can perceive Los Angeles like both realities are true you know my friends who couldn’t make it here because they felt like it was cold and and backstabby or ladder climby like those are those are valid observations and and true but uh my observations are true also and I think it’s just because of what we need from being here and what we don’t need you would mention people go back through your back catalog and listen to some different things I recently started doing that uh because I’m not going to lie to you I’m kind of out on Enterprise like I I might just listen to your guys’ show and I started to like watch like the first half of season one because I had never seen it before it’s like the one Star Trek show that I had never seen that the original which I have never watched I hope you keep listening to the show because the show has been weird and funny like much better than I than I thought it would be when we started out I think we’re starting to hit our stride with it well when you guys introduced the new theme song I’ve had like a legitimate laugh out loud for a while and I was like people are going to [ __ ] hate this or love it and I just thought it was hilarious but yeah I’m still listening to the shows like I I just is it weird because I assume that like just even within Star Trek that Enterprise is kind of regarded as the crappiest one I mean its reputation definitely precedes it and you know for everyone who hates that song we only played it in full for the first episode we did about it like we cut it way down going forward if it’s something that drives you crazy but I think part of it is is like you can’t help but like a thing a little more when its reputation is so bad like it’s not nearly as bad as I expected it to be and in many ways the worse a subject matter is or a source material is the more fun you can have with it the funnier you can make the experience in watching it and I I think that’s been our experience so far with Star Trek enterpris is uh it’s so weird its characters are so bizarre and they’re making such strange choices that we’re having a lot of laughs talking about it yeah the show itself the comedy seems like it has been ramped up and that’s what I wanted to get to is like is it easier to produce comedy on something that’s kind of crappier and not NE like doing next Generation obviously I mean I think I started watching that probably [ __ ] I would have been like seven years old something like that when it came on it hit me right in that age range too my mom watched it that’s why I started watching it like yourid was all that it but you have that Nostalgia for it there’s reverence for it when people go back that like even listening back to some of your old people must like be in for a shock when they list like the first two seasons of TNG on your guys’ show you guys were uh it was clearly a hobby for you guys back then not a business until he’s had to start catering to advertisers well it’s interesting that you say that because like the thing that strikes me when I listen to our old show is like I know the production values gotten better I know I know we sound better as broadcasters and as as comedy people but I don’t think we’ve changed how we talk about things based on the size of our audience quite I guess what I would say that I would have noticed and I did it as well that when I was first starting out and I thought and it turned out my hudi was probably bigger at the time and didn’t even notice it and that’s why the show ended up becoming popular I was a bit looser with like it sounds like even you said before like you don’t like in terms of quality assurance you don’t really want to say things that like hurt people or anything like that and I’m kind of on the same page with you now but like 10 years ago I didn’t give a [ __ ] I would just fire bombs all the time and I’ve changed as a person I don’t want to really do that anymore but I used to do that at the time I’m just thinking about the peard Wesley Runner I would you guys would you guys do that again like if it was new today like obviously you got to keep it in it’s [ __ ] hilarious but I bet you there was a ton of push back on that there always has been and it’s we’ve always made decisions based on what has made each other laugh me and Ben and at the time that was something that did and in a lot in a way that that you’ve described like it’s not that our audience our audien’s tastes have changed comedically it’s that we’ve changed about what is funny to us you know like I I definitely want to make it clear that that we’re we don’t do our show as a reaction to What folks are enjoying or what they want from us like the the guiding principle of the show has always been like can I make Ben laugh can Ben make me laugh and that’s the show and if you’re down with what works for us then you’re going to be someone who enjoys what we make and specifically when we’re talking about you know jokes about beard and Wesley like that was something that was really funny to us that long ago and would we do a joke like that now probably not because it’s less funny to us um and that’s the reason why it’s definitely not because we’ve got a lot more ears on us I think that’s a that’s a better way of both an a sandz yeah I think that’s a better way to articulate it than kind of how I proposed it because like my sense of humor over the past decade has completely shifted like the stuff I found funny when I was 38 or 28 I don’t find funny at 38 that I doubt I’m gonna find funny if I make it to 48 that and it seems like the show has grown with you guys at the same time like you know I remember when I had kids I felt like my show changed a little bit just because I changed massively like kind of over the course of three months of like hey I’m expecting to be a father now am a father and I’m well into that that my comic sensibilities are just a little bit different and as you kind of mentioned like my my ability to be as mean as I used to be just isn’t there anymore I just don’t want to be mean I mean there are so many podcasts about media that exists just to cap on it like just to rip it to shreds and they have large audiences like a lot of people like shows like that but I think the most intention we have about the sort of show we want to make is that we don’t want to make that kind of show we want to make a show that that that makes things fun and funny and not at the expense of things in a in a mean or cruel or or crappy way you know like if you want that if you got an appetite for that like be my guest like like download another show but it’s more fun for us to not do it that way and I think that people do follow because I’ve seen a few people come through my industry who try to cap on like hot take exactly kind of what you’re talking about but in the sports realm whatever sport that it might be and just be more popular if we did it like that it sure seems that way maybe but I it feels very disingenuous a lot of the time when people start doing that that it takes a very like Stephen A for example I don’t think that Stephen A is really like how he presents himself but he’s very good at playing that character and it’s obviously a part of his personality somewhere and he can amplify that like that’s what the best talk co-host podcasters whatever they do some kernel of their real life Amplified you know turned up to 11 at that point and to go but I see people who just that you can tell that they don’t have it in them but they’re saying it anyway and it seems like what you kind of pointed out like they’re all very popular like that style of either podcast or even now it’s like Tik Tok Clips or whatever it might be but if it’s not something that you want to do it’s not going to last very long that the the stepen a example or like the in general like the the performative outrage quality of like a lot of of Hosting personalities it just doesn’t seem like personally something that I could sustain like there’s a like the version of me on the show that we do is pretty close to the real me but it’s like the performance me like the the the comedy me it’s a little bit different from regular me I think my wife would divorce me if that were the version that was walking around the house all the time but like in terms of energy I mean hats off to you if you can if you can be that outraged and that loud about things for that many years but like this is a show we’re going to be doing for another 10 or 15 years this is a show we’ve been doing for eight years like I don’t have the energy for that and you keep having shows yeah yeah yeah we’re doing a Battle Star Galactica show excited start up next week and you were talking earlier about like doing comedy about dark show that’s definitely a challenge that thing is serious it’s quite serious I I had never watched it all the way through and when you guys were doing your pilot season I was like yeah it turns out you can’t Canada’s weird for rights and streaming rights to things because you would think like oh this is on Disney Plus in the US it must be on Disney Plus in Canada no not necessarily it could be on any streaming platform just based on the international rights with everything so it’s hard to track things down battl Star Galactica not on any streaming service in Canada oh no that’s something that we should keep in mind when when we’re so flip about like yeah you can stream it right now it’s everywhere I think I’m watching it on Amazon Prime but I I guess yeah those rights don’t cross borders so I ended up obtaining it through like my Google TV like you can buy it almost like you would like the old iTunes store and just play it off your TV so that’s what I ended up doing but because I I’ve been thinking about doing like I want to do some sort of not necessarily what you guys are doing but like finding what is the best movie of all time you know you really SEO out that title what the best movie rankings best movie of all time just something where I can get back into watching movies I gave up watching movies like 10 years ago and watching movies was my favorite thing in the world I I really wanted to do a lost now is worth it yeah yeah like I wanted to do a lost recap podcast I know lost is hitting Netflix in on July 1 I think in the US and just lost is going to have a second life immediately it is exactly the type of show that people people have heard about it obviously but the only thing they remember about lost is how shitty the ending was but the experience of watching Lost is [ __ ] amazing and people will get and people will get really into it again so you know now it’s way too late to do something like that but just something where I can be maybe even it’s like a once a month type thing to start that up but how many people go back do you find and listen to the old shows like regularly or discover a new show that you guys have done and be like hey I need need to go back to the beginning is it do you see pretty good numbers for those people tell us they do it all the time and we have a really long Tale in terms of like the metrics of that we we get more downloads per week out of the back catalog than we do on a on a current episode and that should be obvious because we have hundreds and hundreds of episodes in the back catalog and and just one is coming out on Monday and Friday but yeah it’s it’s uh like parasocial is the name of the relationship given to like a listener of a podcast who like really it’s kind of pejorative right like folks who like really make it a part of their lives but I have that relationship with my favorite podcasts they become a part of my routine they they become a part of the thing that I do like if I’m if I’m walking my puppy Ripley like I’m listening to a certain show when I do that or if I’m taking a road trip I’m listening to a road trip podcast like I understand that our show becomes a part of people’s lives and I love hearing that but it changes the feeling from the fun thing that you’re doing with a buddy in a basement to like kind of a responsibility and in a weird way like a utility that people use to live their lives and that part is something I never expected when I started meeting people who listen to our show which was like man I really went through some stuff a couple of months ago and your show was the only way I got through it and that really hits like it gives me chills to even say something like that about a a dick and fart joke Star Trek podcast that we do like it’s really important to people and if there’s ever a moment where I feel like God I’ve got here I go another day of watching two episodes and recording two episodes and boy am I tired like it’ll get you ready to do the thing that you’re doing that day really fast when you think about how important it is to to so many people like it’s it’s great yeah and that’s something that I mean it’s funny that you mentioned like those sorts of you know private emails that come in directly to you to find them just it always stuns me when people will say you like yeah I’ve been having some dark times like this made me laugh and it got me out of it or it got me through it until I could find something else and started to feel better about it like thank you it’s like that bad that’s not when I hit record that’s not what I would have expected the listening audience at all to think of but you know I’m very glad that that’s something and you’re absolutely right like when you know how how much not fun could watching football be every single Sunday although it does feel like work uh when you go absolutely this is something I’ve tried to explain to my wife a lot and I’m not sure she’ll never she’ll ever understand it but yeah it is an effortful thing and anytime you’re doing a thing that you wouldn’t ordinarily do uh to to earn your living like that’s a job no matter what it is and it’s probably like when you’re going through episodes like how many times do you watch an episode like you watch it once then watch it twice and make notes uh on catalog stuff like on older Star Trek shows I’ll watch those once on the new shows that come out on the streaming platforms I’ll watch those twice because it’s easier or just because it’s newer characters you just you might have missed something along the way I think contextually you understand a little better uh what was what’s going on in older Star Trek and those older Star Trek series are ones I’ve already watched before previously anyway and I think there’s a pace to new television programming that is so brisk and you know sometimes the dialogue is tuned down a bit where you know watching with subtitles is helpful uh sometimes it takes a couple watches to to really have the story and the and the character moments penetrate so yeah often I’m watching a new show twice just to make sure that I get it so it’s funny that you mentioned like sometimes it’s a bit quiet because we edit here and like we have the big cans to put them on and I can hear like the buzzing of the computer behind uh the producer like it picks up and not in this studio my bigger Studio it picks up on just our very sensitive microphones and I can hear it when I’m doing the edit and for a while like I was going through addition and like cutting that like getting whatever waveform that was and getting that out of the actual edit was like man this would piss me off if I was listening to it but for whatever reason I forgot to do it one day and release the show and then listen to it and my version of quality assurance like make sure the ads are playing is is the show firing and I didn’t hear it at all on my iPhone and I was like H and then I went back and listened to a few old episodes where I had done it and it actually took a lot of the like the depth out of the voices by like like it flattened it out and the only reason that I could hear it is because I was using these like $500 professional noise cancelling headphones which people just don’t listen through like a lot of people just kind of it’s like the YouTube show like yes I do the video for the show along with the audio but I think a lot of people just throw on the YouTube and just like Let It play and they’re not watching the show actively they’re just listening to it that it took me a while to figure out that I’m actually making my audio for an iPhone or for a labtop because my Mac laptop speakers [ __ ] suck like everything shitty on them so I can’t really like do anything about that but we also release the show on TV as well so that gets put through a different format and they have like certain especially in Canada when it comes out they actually have certain guidelines on what the peak volume can be on a lot of this stuff so I have to keep the mix within that although when I worked at my old company I used to purposely jack up the uh the volume because I because we weren’t working at a station that was like very popular uh or anything like that but I thought that like if people were flicking through the channels and you know my levels weren’t peing at like minus5 or or right around even and I was getting more up into the red that because I always noticed it with TV shows that some of them just are either way too loud or way too soft but it would be the really loud ones where I’d stop on that channel be like Dam that’s loud and I would have to St sit there and like turn down my TV I was like if I just do that to my show maybe I’ll get people to stop on this channel for like three seconds rather than just moner than just clicking it’s it’s Gorilla Marketing and it’s finest yeah it works but just the mix of the show is I don’t think that something a lot of people really think about and the devices that people actually watch things through and being able to tailor it to you know different devices is almost impossible it is and and like music has been mixed this way for years I mean producers and Engineers are playing what they make not just out of their studio monitors but out of of every speaker they can find in order to find the the optimal experience that that plays across all of them it’s something that I know no podcaster I know does I mean I I mix into my cans I know our great producer Wendy does the same you just do the best you can with what you’ve got and I mean I’ve certainly felt that way when I listened to our earliest episodes which we edited on uh on film making software like we edited our first episodes on Final Cut because that was the only software we knew how to use and we just use the the audio portion of the sequences to uh to cut our shows together now we’re using audition like we should have been the whole time but yeah that’s it’s impossible to hit the bullseye for a podcaster just like it’s got to be impossibl for someone who makes TV and movies to to nail it that way yeah CU I guess you would have to just Research into what are people actually watching this on especially if it’s a direct to streaming service type of show almost like new Star Trek is because you would have or any new show for that matter and it’ be even weirder for repurposing old shows that people are now exclusively consuming through a streaming service but at least you can still kind of think like hey you know if some old is watching TNG like I would be I’m probably watching it on my TV I don’t have my phone up like trying to watch it on the go some times maybe I’ll do that abely yeah but it does feel like the younger you are the more likely you are to watch it on a tablet or a laptop or your phone rather put it through the TV and all those speakers are so different yeah they really are and you can I mean I had a phone once I couldn’t figure out why the sound was bad there was like a piece of gum stuck in the speaker I couldn’t like that happens too you’re like why is this so so quiet all of a sudden how would I know yeah I mean got to check our our flat screen TVs for lint because that’s certainly the problem with our phones yeah there you go I didn’t even think about checking mine for lint I just have to I had to that thing off I had to put a protective screen over my TV after my son threw a baseball throw or old one oh oh buddy watching it happen in real time is like oh you see it CED it’s like oh no he’s like three what are you gonna do yeah what can you do you just uh I mean there’s not many places in in a house you can throw a baseball safely I guess the lesson is don’t throw in inside the house they are not the best listeners yeah very impulsive these little kids well if if they were old enough you could you could take it take the new TV out of their allowance but maybe we’re not there yet do we still do I it’s funny like do we still do allowance in like I guess they’ll be collecting an allowance probably three four years time like what do you give is that the problem with today’s kids Pat maybe but like thing again if I used to get like 10 a week or whatever for putting out the garbage and raking the leaves like the [ __ ] are they G to do with 10 bucks that’s really true and and for a parent to be like yeah you you mowed the lawn here’s $150 that’s you can’t do that as a parent and and without that carrot how do you get a kid to do anything these aren’t questions I have to answer I’m I I don’t have kids but good luck take take their phones away way I guess I mean not that they have phones now and I I’m firmly in the camp of they until they’re 18 they’re not having phones they’ll have phones like this time next year I’m sure just because it makes life so much easier and he could track them with the phones I think that’s the part that everyone forgets about this stuff but when you first started doing this did you have any ideas that this would become a business in the career for you or is this just like this is fun the answer is kind of because because Ben had been a podcaster before he had a couple of of great and funny shows that I was a guest on a couple of times and Ben and I hit it off so well that we were like we should have a show that would be fun but here’s the thing let’s make it a show where we don’t have to book guests because that’s a pain and let’s make it a show about something that we don’t have to do a lot of research about something that we know naturally where we could just like step up to a mic do a funny show together put it out on the internet and what this will be is a test for whether or not we’re comedically compatible but also compatible in the ways you need to be to do a project over a long period of time because doing a podcast isn’t just about me and you talking into the mics it’s about scheduling the show it’s about being able to manage your files in a way that they don’t get lost or destroyed it’s about uh working collaboratively to to create a thing and more than anything else to do that thing regularly week in and week out without getting tired of each other or pissed off or want to cancel the whole thing altogether so we were like let’s do a show about Star Trek the Next Generation it’s a thing that we love we’ll never need a guest we’ll hardly have to do research we’ll just watch an episode and then get on the mics it’ll be great and that’ll be good practice for a serious show that we want to do where we actually like put in the work and like uh do real research and get guests and like really give it our all and the craziest thing happened when we first started doing the practice show was like only a handful of episodes in we got an ARS Technica article we got we got a bunch of press right away accidental like we have no idea how we got picked up or why but our audience shot up immediately like in the single digit episodes we we got an audience and that’s just ridiculous for any podcast even back then and our practice show became the real show we started seeing these numbers and we were like well I guess this is it we’re working pretty well together the show is fun and funny and it’s not taking the work that we thought the the quote unquote real show would take once we got to that and we made the practice show into the real thing thing and that’s that was eight years ago how long was it until you joined maximum fun I remember it happening pretty early like in the first year and that happened because of Ben’s pre-existing relationship with the network he’d been friendly with them for a long time and I’d been an appreciator of their shows over the years just as a fan and uh and Ben made the ask and they were uh generous enough to offer us a spot on their Network I mean I don’t think our show shares a lot of qualities to the many other great shows that they have on the network which is I think a credit to how the network runs and what the network believes in they have a lot of different shows about a ton of different subjects but like Star Trek comedy show is is something that kind of sticks out in your catalog and I’m grateful for them for uh for sticking it out with us as long as they have well they they need their Comedy Sports show soon I think I think so too God I I should pitch that again because a sport show on the network would be great a gambling show I think would be even better that’s that’s something I definitely want to do well I mean if you ever need I have a Rolodex of people who gamble on things one of the uh one of the reasons I really wanted to reach out there was an episode you guys did I think it was during the Run of deep space Bas 9 and you started talking it’s like because Ben was so lost on it and you were like kind of locked in it was like a darts tournament at quirks and you were running through that they were betting on it and how the odds made no sense and it was pissing you off I was like oh yeah Adam’s one of my guys this this is exactly the type of thing that I would be pissed off about too that I try to talk gambling whenever I can on our shows and anytime there’s an example of gambling happening in Star Trek that’s something that I love and and will want to talk about but what makes uh Ben such a such a great co-host is he hates gambling and you should go you should see us in Vegas sometime because I am soaking it up and I’m rolling craps and beding sports just as much as I can and uh Ben’s there to eat and drink and we kind of moderate each other on like well yeah I like to eat and drink too but you won’t find Ben gambling in Vegas that’s that’s just a me thing over there I me I wonder how much like is there because I know there’s different segments of your audience of you know there’s people who the Jim shim Modas they’re always you people who work out a ton is there a gambling side of that too when I’m in Vegas for the yearly Star Trek convention yeah I mean we run into with them and and I’ll go have hours long crap sessions with our listeners at casinos uh just spur the moment like it’s it’s really fun and yeah there is a not insignificant portion of our audience that’s that’s into that kind of thing but I mean for the I think by and large most of our listenership uh are not degenerates the way I am and I’m fine with that was it specific to the two of you and you guys had this commonality that you picked Next Generation to go with as a podcast or had you listened to like just try like if you could kind of go back and look at it right now from like a market research perspective be like hey this is actually a great a a to go after I mean they have conventions every single year there’s it’s the same reason they brought back new Trek like there’s a baked in audience for this and viewership in 2024 held 2017 even when they started releasing new Star Trek shows again like hey two million people to watch an episode it’s a lot of people to watch an episode these days because everyone just has these micro type of things where you know it’s not 70 people watching MASH or 90 million watching Seinfeld if you can average two to four million people a week like that’s a lot especially if it’s on a streamer those are signups that you can get that yes there’s this baked in audience that’s always going to be there for these shows and I mean to be perfectly honest with you I listened to some other Star Trek podcasts before I came across yours that’s how I came across yours because I was I was think I was watching like Voyager or something like that at the time and I tried out a bunch of other ones and they were just [ __ ] very serious and very bad yeah I mean I’m sure you’ve encountered this in Sports media like the the the the cream Rises to the top and yeah I mean bless the folks that are out there doing the show that they want to do and the way they want to do it um but we were never that strategic Pat like we never Cho we never chose our source material thinking that oh yeah like the audience is big for the show that we’re talking about that’ll make our audience big too it was purely a this is a thing that we love and love to talk about and it’s just convenience that like mid 40y old person is like a great demographic for selling ads on podcasts or whatever you know like it’s it’s growing popularity and the idea that new Star Trek would come out eventually totally surprised us like blindsided us even like we were expecting to do catalog Star Trek podcast Forever Until Star Trek ran out and then that would be the end of our show and we’d you know choose a different subject to do a show on maybe but then CBS announced that they’d start making new Star Trek and we had to kind of scramble like are we going to be having two shows now I guess so like like let’s do it temporarily it seems like maybe one show is all we’re going to get and then more and more new Star Trek shows came out after necessitating a second feed and a second show and now we’re uh we’re scrambling we’re making we’re making brand new shows every week because brand new start trecks getting made it’s a pretty great problem to have yeah I would guess that it’s probably I wouldn’t say easy but easier to fill that time when there is active new Star Trek shows coming out that you can just hey the show came out on Thursday Friday morning let’s drop the recap you guys get the screeners now right we get the screeners but but screeners don’t account for the space between the series coming out so I mentioned the battle start Galactica show that we’re starting up like that was made in response to the idea that Star Trek Discovery is ending and the next series has not come out yet and won’t come out uh Star Trek Prodigy is going to be the next show that drops on Netflix in a little bit but we had to fill time and we can’t just gab about nothing for weeks and weeks at a time we did that pilot season on the greatest Trek show where we explored a bunch of First episodes of science fiction series that we enjoyed like in the ’90s and picked one to do during the gap between new Star Trek and that just happened to be Battlestar Galactica and that’s the only reason that happened was just we had the time to do it did you feel a need to feed the beast in between seasons though because you mentioned this like dead time that happens and you’re still producing a show every single week like did you have the thought of hey maybe in between during the offseason essentially we’ll do once every two weeks once every three weeks we have sometimes gone into like that low power mode of of every other week but it seems like there’s enough to talk about where doing it every week is a good idea and also like in the back of our minds we don’t want to give anyone a reason to unsubscribe or feel like this isn’t a priority for them because it’s not a priority for us it feels like a like a duty you know to keep making shows every week and it’s not like we’re making time Filly BS shows where we’re just we’re not putting ourselves into it like we’re actually being mindful about like choosing a subject matter that makes sense and and that we enjoy primarily like we’ve got to enjoy what we’re talking about for this whole thing to work so picking a series that works and and putting it in the space between is is what we’ve decided to do and it’s working so far yeah it’s funny because you’re not the I have the same method of working that you just kind of brought up and a lot of different people that I know that have been around a long time I don’t know if it’s the commonality between all of us of why these shows have lasted over time but well I have gone on vacation I’m not going to be Mr I don’t ever take a vacation guy I never miss I never miss a drop for my show ever so even if I go on vacation for two weeks I have two weeks worth of shows prepared even if they’re not covering like the golf tournament that week and I never take a vacation during football because that would be crazy that’s what pays the bills but the after the Super Bowl ends at the end of March or at the end of February it’s like yeah I’ve just worked for six or eight months I’m gonna go on vacation with my wife for a little bit but I can’t have a dead spot for two weeks in my show because people might unsub and I’d be just worried that I always worked that someone was coming to take my job whether that’s a creative person that I made in my mind or not that if you’re not looking over your shoulder I feel like your content gets really bad it’s it’s that it’s also that idea that we were talking about before of like people depending on your work to to do their own work and live their lives there’s also like uh like you can you can live a life and put out a show every week or two if you just like build up enough production Runway like you can you can live a good life doing this it’s not like you’re you’re chained to a production schedule you can build the runway and and make it work in a in as close to a stress-free way as possible like I get asked this a lot and I’m sure you do too like how do I start a podcast and how do I make it popular and and how did you get your numbers and stuff and I think the thing I’m one of the things I’m the most proud of is we’ve never missed a release like we’re always coming out on Monday and Friday never missed one never been late I feel great about that and when people ask me how to do it the very first thing I tell him is pick a schedule stick to the schedule never miss and I don’t think anyone takes that seriously the folks I know who have started up podcasts who have then quit making those podcasts were the ones that were like I don’t have to do that like if I if I drop my episode on Monday or Wednesday or maybe it’s late on Friday like like they’ll get it they’ll get it once a week or whatever I don’t think that’s how it works I don’t think so either yeah I’m on this like I know when your show like there’s there’s something to that as well like I know when I wake up on Monday mornings your show is going to be there when I wake up on Friday mornings your show is gonna be there I think people feel the same way about me mine does shift a little bit between Golf and football but my football schedule has been the same for 11 years like the same show well I need your show to know who to bet on in the golf tournament so like like the timeliness of that is really important and like I think that a Monday morning because you guys used to do two a week right we still do yeah but no but you guys used to do great did you do greatest gen twice a week greatest gen shows a week which was insane yeah they probably I mean you guys could have had an extra just built in three years if you hadn’t done that those were the days where we edited the show ourselves before we had a producer those were fun days so so so those were long weeks they were yeah while I was balancing a freelance uh video production career so I know you guys have gotten into like streaming in video more recently like over like over the past few years I was actually kind of stunned that you guys like thinking back on it you guys both come from video production backgrounds you guys didn’t do that along with the audio to begin with back in 2016 2015 because I mean you guys obviously got as you mentioned like single digit episodes got a pretty big listener base right away imagine if those shows were also like simoc cast on YouTube at the same time wouldn’t it have been great wouldn’t it if we were if we had the foresight to do that here’s the thing like this was an escape for us in the beginning like when when we were working freelance video like the very last thing I wanted to do was be camera ready yeah and and and be on the opposite side of the camera after a day of work in a in a production environment like no thanks so yeah it it took us a long time to finally get comfortable with the idea of putting our shows on video and putting Clips out and the audience kind of Demands it though now right like if if you’re if you have a podcast with traction and you’re not showing your face like that’s a part of it and and another aspect of it is like not everyone is listening to a podcast on a podcatcher like a lot of folks are listening to podcasts on YouTube in a cubicle or something and and that’s something I never would have been able to predict that that there would be that many listeners and viewers experiencing the show like that yeah I found that the YouTube numbers overall have been very hard to track because I think that the YouTube podcast has now replaced the Google podcast podcast feed that just one day although i’ had been releasing the episodes both on YouTube for the video version and audio for the audio version that it just popped up like on my back end of YouTube one day it’s like this is a podcast and it had the right RS feed that I had never put into it before like how the [ __ ] did it know this it must have taken it from Google and transported it over but I think that if I wasn’t uploading the video version of the podcast it would parse the audio over onto YouTube itself and put up some sort of graphic uh another aspect of that is that YouTube pays you know like algorithmically or or subscriber wise like like it’s C it’s good for business to put your show on YouTube and that was another reason why we did it like we’re not we’re not a massive show we’re not making bank over there but it’s something and it’s important it just and I think that people kind of forget about that like because people be like oh you do a ton of views and they used to be higher now they’re not quite as high but you must be making bank off YouTube it’s like not really like it’s enough to cover some of the essential expenses that I have which is really great I’m I’m glad that I have that Revenue coming in but like I couldn’t live off the YouTube Revenue yeah and I mean it’s it’s just the pillars of the thing I mean it’s uh it’s the sub it’s the subscriber supporters it’s the merch it’s the touring it’s the YouTube it’s it’s you need to distribute all of those things out there in order to make a living and and any one of those things isn’t enough to to earn a living that’s for sure yeah I guess yeah having the multiple streams of income because I guess you guys have the The Listener support the the P ones you guys do was that I mean I haven’t heard many other podcasts if any do that at the end of a show genius maximum fun uh has encouraged shows to do that from the start like listener messages to other listeners and we do two two or three of those a week toward the end of our show and yeah that’s another way that that people who like our show can support it by by purchasing one of those and well we have a lot of fun with those yeah no absolutely I mean I bought one not too long ago I think I was pretty drunk when I wrote it when I listened to it I was like oh that didn’t make any sense did you get the greatest bump Pat that’s what we that’s a little bit I I just I just don’t know if I’m the right show for a crossover audience I was like if you like because I I try to treat the subject matter the same way that you guys do with yours although the shows are so much different that I I like sports I like to goof about sports I like betting I like to goof about betting you’re not gonna tune into my show and be like here are the locks of the week and you can’t lose like I’m not Vegas Dave over here like yeah I lose all the [ __ ] time like here’s the stupid reason why I want to bet on this guy it’ll be fun don’t worry about it those are the most fun bets to make yeah and I’ll have my research you know I’ll do my due diligence but you’re just going to be wrong a lot of the time you gotta get used to it I can’t wait to see what your numbers look like after this episode drops know I I don’t know if I put greatest genen I put your name into the titling titling is something that I’ve SEO has changed so much in 15 years that I’m actively bad at it now here’s a lock of the weak Pat you’re going to get the greatest gen bump out of this yes bet on it it’s what I need know I’m GNA bet on it I mean the your $2,500 appearance fee for the hour better be worth it yeah yeah I I’m gonna be checking the mailbox for the next week buddy yeah it’s tough sending money from Canada to the US it can get lost you know a few weeks later down the line I’ve experienced this getting payment as well actually that’s actually something I did want to ask you about like getting the advertiser checks you guys do have you know the Discord the fan support YouTube whatever it might be a lot of this money doesn’t show up for like two months like you do something and then you got to wait six to eight weeks for the money to start rolling through like and I was telling you right before we came on air that I’m having a dispute with my advertisers at the same time just due to weird payment schedules like have you guys gone through that like did you expect that the business part would be so shitty at like constructing a fun podcast around it yes because I was a freelancer for a while and no matter what you put on your invoice as your terms people aren’t going to Care like you’re gonna be calling them 30 days out after your Net 30 Terms rire being like what the hell you owe me money like I did work for you and it that part hasn’t changed in podcasting we’re fortunate that uh our friends at the network handle the advertising aspect so we’re not having to get on the phone and Chase things down but yeah there have been notable examples of companies that you wouldn’t expect to just be like not being able to pay or unwilling to pay you until like a year later for ads that they purchased on your show and that you’ve read to your audience it feels like a betrayal like it’s not just that we didn’t get paid for a thing it’s like I it’s like I told people that I care about about your good and service and and I feel like a jerk now for doing that you know it’s kind of Twisted completely I got one I remember like when crypto was getting bigger like someone brought me I think it was called like blockfi I was like I don’t really know a ton about this this sounds like they gave me like the sheet I read through it I was like yeah sounds good I I still get their notices of like bankruptcy in the mail every three weeks or so like hey you might be entitled to 42 cents like fantastic I hope no one put their money in this yeah there is a uh very pop I’m not going to uh I’m gonna I’m going to say allegedly a lot maybe that’ll help legally but yeah there’s a there’s a company that makes conventions that is very popular that bought advertisements on our show and we H we had to hound them to get paid a year later because they uh they wouldn’t you don’t want to be Ned isakov and name names over here that could be bad no yeah it’s uh it’s crazy I never would have expected that no yeah it’s always the always the companies that you would least suspect to end up going through this stuff but it would make like espe that’s how they got so big not paying their bills yeah I mean maybe that’s the part of it it’s like Bill Gates on The Simpsons didn’t get rich by uh cutting checks that’s great yeah yeah once you get to a certain level of wealth or you know success whatever it might be they just have to stop paying for things sounds great gotta get there yeah maybe one day but if you were a small if you were a small podcast and I mean you guys have the different pillars or temples even of how you guys can actually make money it’s coming from this Source or this source and my show was set up very much the same way that if you were relying on this advertising and it wasn’t coming in until a year later or two months at minimum like it would be hard to keep up the podcast I mean it is and with our specific business model uh there is some some churn in the income that you get month-to month like The Listener supported model uh is dependent on a group of listeners liking your show enough to support it financially and that number changes every month so like as a household you make your plans with with a budget and what you you need to be able to afford and what you want to be able to afford but our income’s always changing based on on how many people are supporting and which advertisers pay on time and not and so there is a little bit unexpected every month about what our income is going to be and that is going to be uncomfortable for a lot of folks in the business that we’re in you know I don’t know are you purely Advertiser supported so yes and no like I have I own separate businesses which I advertise on my show as you know subscription based data modeling things like fantasy National for golf run the for football so I have products that I can advertise and push people through and push people to where I I am I’m not only building up equity in that business we’re actually getting Subs at the same time but my biggest one is like my title sponsorship now with Underdog fantasy like they give me like I basically told them like I I don’t really I want to get we can put in a provision that if I don’t get you x amount of subscribers or x amount of Revenue throughout the course of the year like you could have the ability to cancel that deal whenever you want that’s never been a problem for the show because the people are so good like that’s how they support My Show by going to Underdog using Code Mayo that really does help me out a ton but I have a set limit with them I used to have that with DraftKings too it’s like here’s how much you’re going to pay me per year to be the title sponsor of this show and then the rest of it like that gives me the runway to be like hey if this guy doesn’t pay me for two months that’s okay because my entire budget is built around what the title sponsorship is going to be for the show that I know that that’s guaranteed money coming in that makes sense we need to get a title sponsor for the comedy Star Trek shows there you go maybe talk Underdog all right all right when we’re off Mike I’m gonna get a couple of phone numbers from you yeah I’ll get you the Deets on that but it’s just it’s how I’ve been able to not do a patreon or not do a Discord which I feel like I should have done ages ago I was like just like a lot of things like when you look back on it like man I really should have been at the Forefront of that that would have been a really good Revenue generator for me but then I start to think like not everything in my life needs to be a revenue generator I would [ __ ] hate being on Discord all the time I hate Discord it’s the worst I text enough with people throughout the course of my day I don’t need to actively go somewhere else and feel obligated to now participate in that when I don’t want to like I think it would be good for the show I think it would be good for the community I just don’t want to do I love all the spaces that have popped up uh around our show all the little communities that have grown but our secret is we never made them like me and Ben never made an online community for our show the the listeners did that and so our Discord has thousands of folks on it Ben and I visit from time to time and have a blast but like we didn’t create these places and we go there sometimes to just check in and see how things are going but yeah that that would be a job in and of itself I don’t have that kind of time to stop by every social media neighborhood to like make an appearance I think it’s really cool that that these places exist for people who enjoy what we do you know for them to talk it out like these places are for them I don’t I don’t think they’re necessarily for us and I feel like sometimes because I’ve SE a lot of people especially in gambling in the gambling world like here are the picks for today here are the updated picks for today and I understand it’s more essential for that but I’m not selling a subscription service where people get picks every single week if I I would have to have that to go along with it to keep up with you know imagine doing MLB content where you think a guy’s pitching in the morning and then he’s not pitching an hour before the show then you need to redo all your content like that is mind- numbing like I would not want to do that but that is such an essential business model for a lot of places yeah yeah I can see it I’m I’m glad you don’t have to and but I think there’s some people who live for that stuff too and like they’re the ones who are good at it I mean I’m one of those people that that makes very sure right up until the moment I make a bet that things are going to be what I expect in terms of starters or players or whatever and I’m totally crawling through those message boards trying to find whatever tips I can use for the football pools that I play like I’ll read anything I’ll listen to anything it’s funny that that and that is now provided in the gambling industry you can literally find and if there’s something because for ages when I was doing like rankings for fantas football it would be I would get start sick questions up to like a minute before it’s like I don’t know what you want me to tell you a minute a minute before the game start but all the questions are asked in a way where it’s very clear that there’s an answer that they want to hear they just want someone else to confirm it with them and now you can find that anywhere that’s exactly right and not only that like you you don’t even have to have credibility to a certain kind of degenerate you just have to be right and and you especially need to be right early because if I’m just listening to you for the first time and you earn from me right away You’re my guy I’m going to Pat Mayo for all of my picks forever after that like that initial dose you know that initial tip that first one if it works out I think really matters for someone with my personality anyway I’m like I’m deep in the weird gambling stacks of the internet like like using whatever I can and getting whatever tips I can get from people I’m sure aren’t popular but they’ve worked in in opportunities that I’ve needed them to and that’s made all the difference I mean that was like rocket fuel for our show in 2016 we picked Danny will it to win The Masters it was the highest rated show that we did that was our pick on the show and then all of a sudden he wins the Masters and people still bring that up to me today is hey the first time I watched the show we hit like 100 to One winner I was like yeah it’s great I don’t think we’ve hit one sense in a decade that’s something that’s so fun about sports gambling as a community and in the type of program that you make which is like that Collective feeling of like we’re all in it together and we’re all willing this to happen and the and the feeling when it when it works there’s nothing like it I mean it’s like being in Vegas during March Madness that like that Roman Coliseum feeling of being in a sports book when it’s really going off and you can feel the different sides of it rooting for one outcome or another I love it it’s the best it’s why I’m surprised that gambling sports betting content maybe it’s because sports betting in the US is still a lot newer than it is in most of the world that there would be more communities spurned up around that like I transitioned when I first started from fantasy football to daily fantasy to gambling I mean no one wants it if someone has a good fantasy football C podcast I want to tell you about it if I’m in the league with you yeah exactly that’s so fun funny uh I have the same impulses like I’ve been playing a a fantasy sports book league with my friends from college for like 15 years and it’s funny how we self-moderate our text thread with each other during the season because like you’re rooting for your friends to do well but not that well not better than you and like as things are happening you’re giving them information that you had before that couldn’t help them because the game’s already start started and it’s fun to watch those conversations unfold because like they’re your buddies but you still want to beat them you still want to make money there’s such a tension there you know last thing before I let you get out of here and thank you for the time thanks for having me yeah yeah no problem the things that you mentioned as being the most critical to starting a podcast scheduling being number one having that consistent release schedule the only other thing that I would add on that is make sure your audio is good for whatever that first episode is because I have listened and started with some podcasts that have bad audio and just I can’t do it sounds too bad yeah uh you’re exactly right about that and that’s always the second thing that I say after schedule my own podcasts when I go back and listen to those first ones like those were the best mics that you could have for podcasting like those were podcast specific microphones were they the yeti yeah yeah yeah and it’s sounds fine but it doesn’t sound like an sm7 sure doesn’t like like like with proper compression on it and stuff and I wish more than anything that I could like kind of go back in George Lucas those First episodes to make it make it a better first impression to people like like you and people like me like I’m the same way if you give me a tip on a podcast I should listen to and it’s produced poorly and it doesn’t sound right like it does not matter how good the content is I’ll just find it unlistenable I’m I’m too used to professional quality and I I have old episodes that are like that as well and we had been using pretty good mics for a long time but the audio now is so much better than it was when you’ve been doing a show for so long obviously things are going to change our video production quality like the production quality that you’re seeing me on right now at my house is better than my studio quality was nine years ago just based on the lighting and cameras and the affordability of a lot of this stuff but it’s one thing to not sound as good as it does now and it’s another thing to sound bad and I’ve listened to some that are like they hurt my ears to listen to like you guys the show was never like that it’s weird to hear the difference between today and 2015 but it’s not like I listen to the first episode and be like oh my God I can’t listen that was one of the things that distinguished our show when we first started it eight years ago was that a lot of people were making science fiction and Star Trek podcasts at the time very very few sounded the way ours did because of its professional quality I think it I think that made a huge difference and it’s one of the reasons why like real legitimate press Outlets wrote about our show it’s because we were a professional sounding show we weren’t just folks talking into computer microphones which is I think what you got a lot of the time uh 10 years ago yeah absolutely so cut fortime on X formerly known as Twitter as my emails tell me when I get notifications is there a better spot to find you guys at uh the show is on the maximum fun Network so you can you can find our show our shows Pages there greatest generation and greatest Trek greatest Generation being the show about catalog Star Trek and greatest Trek being about all the new stuff that’s coming out including like our Battle Star Galactica stuff um yeah I’m on X from time to time posting show stuff I’ve kind of withdrawn from social media uh as a poster I’m more of a consumer of it like follow you I follow a lot of accounts that interest me but I’m not much of a participant anymore in those places but like our community our listeners have have made Facebook pages they’ve made a Discord at drunk shot.com uh there’s a Reddit Community there with like tens of thousands of of members uh we’re all over the place we’re everywhere uh that you want to find listeners of our programming yeah I’m I’m in the Reddit sub I I’m also just a lurker I never participate on anything in Reddit that only bad things can come from that I feel like that’s how I feel so I’m just kind of taking a little bit of a hands-off approach and uh you know when little uh little fires pop up here and there I’ll be there to put them out but most of the time it’s not like that well thanks for being on uh subscribe download and listen to the greatest generation and the greatest Trek uh if you have any interest in both you know you listen to Adam talk about about podcasting go hear him do it have yourself a couple L even if you don’t like Star Trek like my wife started listening to it with me from time to time uh not a big fan of Star Trek find your show funny I was like hey we can listen to this then the one thing that we can listen to it is so hard to have podcast compatibility uh with your wife like I that’s very difficult for me too so I’m glad our show works for you in that regard yeah we we made a trade So I listened to her and we end up going to one of their live shows too it’s called watch what crappens it’s a like a Bravo reality TV recap show it’s [ __ ] great it’s hilarious yeah and like I’ll watch some of the shows with her and your boy robs I listen to his show Vander pump robs oh yeah yeah yeah you need sometimes to get sucked into a world like with your wife of something that she’s really into you need the companion piece to go along with it to help guide you through it the only way to road trip is if you’ve got a couple of those D yeah or or you’re really into audio books which I’m not yeah yeah well yeah support the shows uh with Adam and Ben greatest Trek and greatest Generation once again find it on Apple any of the podc Spotify wherever it may be Pat Mayo experience do that one as well smash like while you’re here and use code Mayo at Underdog fantasy right now get yourself a deposit bonus of up to 250 bucks you know golf is still going on NFL is coming up you probably want to get into that all right details down in the description I’m Pat Mayo see you next time experience experience
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Can’t wait to listen to this one.
We gotta get a PME tour. The people (me) WILL pay top dollar to meet Top Cat
We love Adam & Ben! And now we like Pat!
Thanks for doing this episode, it's important and this listener enjoyed the last "podcasting tips" episode and one can use these episodes for help in launching, or improving, their own!
"Trek"? Was always big on ST: TNG, more so than any other 'Trek media (anything put out these days, like with "Star Wars", is NOT canon/REAL 'Trek/'Wars, by the way). DS9 was okay, but it's a serial, and those lose-out on the viewers who want to, say, run on the treadmill during a random TNG episode, whereas a serial almost "asks" too much of the audience and is made for binge-watching, which not all have time, nor gumption, to do, thus, is harder to sell to advertisers as compared to relatively cheaper and/or easier-to-enjoy episodic television!
8:49 in, does the joke have something to do with Cust? Did it come from GF? Am genuinely curious…..(won't get into muh thoughts on the alleged 'caust as to not get the channel in trouble with the nu-wrld-ordr)
17:31 in, moved TO LA? Make the call and leave ASAP! Poor guy. This listener actually knows someone who went and moved out to LA to become a director, years ago, and went to Columbia Film School, in Tarzana, which is now a branch of ASU, for some reason. He said in confidence a friend of his was actually an alien-in-disguise, but talked no more of that since then and this user lost contact with him up until this year. Asked around on the 'net in an online sci-fi MMO game and someone suggested the friend of his might be a "Blue" alien, fwiw.
21:08 in, never got into "Enterprise" (the ScottBakula one, right?), and accept next to nothing since then as true "Trek" canon, and anything labeled "Star Wars" after 2012.
23:44 in, outside of, maybe, three episodes scattered throughout seasons three through seven, TNG, legit, got better after RickBerman took over. Point-blank. Sure, there were a few nice episodes in seasons one and two in TNG, but "RickBerman SAVED "STAR TREK"!
Now if yuh will excuse this fan, this user has some lists of reasons why "Captain Picard" is better than "Captain Kirk" to e-mail three dweebs at "Springfield U"…..=)
27:00 in, nah, see, it just seems that Canadians, in-general, have a different sense of humor that is inherently more irreverent and/or "inappropriate" than Americans, but more relatable or understandable than English humor (something PM on the show has gone over before). As one gets older, they can have the ability to gain a better understanding and appreciation of "gallows-humor" or "dark humor", like AnthonyJeselnik's "Caligula" special.
29:52 in, Kanadastan/China-East in-general is weird/horrible. The weird, sort of "nationalization" of the entertainment industry HAS TO STOP, point-blank. Like, WWF/WWE/prowrestling-in-general needing to have a set number of Canadian workers-and-talent on the cards is RIDICULOUS and airwaves needing to have a certain percentage of Canadian artists intermixed with the usual/American pop stars, etc..
Learn free trade, Canada! All countries are imaginary!
By the way, Happy Independence Day, fwiw!
40:26 in, this user was never a "Discord guy", but had to get into it this past year or so for certain activities elsewhere online to use alongside, and
41:36 in, inflation has pretty much destroyed the idea of an "allowance", at least in such a sense. JayNoone, actually, speaks at "Anarchapulco"-affiliated streams and conferences (as well as "PorcFest") and he teaches children welding and farming techniques and how one can get/give children dopamine-hits from meaningful labor as opposed to from the likes of video games and dwugz/alcohol/sugar! Think smarter, not harder. Also, "discipline" =/= beat the tar outta one's children!
47:59 in, THAT level of fan engagement is actually really nice and rewarding! It's something that separates one's service from another and some of the more successful artists/streamers/podcasters out there, performers-in-general from cam-girl to prowrestler, do, like ChrisJericho with his "JeriCruise". Another newsletter-writer this user was subscribed to has recently started sending out physical letters with information and stories to a portion of his subscribers that are subscribed to a premium service of his, which is a nice touch, especially when hand-signed at the end! These things give a sense of added implied value to one's product and/or service!
Am one to favor sports-betting, which is more binary, than relying on RNGeezus at the one-arms, fwiw. QUESTION FOR THE GUEST: Ever thought of doing a fan-included office pool on "RYP", for example, like how "The Solid Verbal" do pools on there for college football during the season?
54:17 in, and also, PM and guest, people are just STARVED-FOR-CONTENT, and CONTENT-IS-KING! Most-all of these "streaming services" are scams, in that, they cut-out the middle-man (further destroying the middle-class, btw) and have less of an incentive to pay those under their own umbrella when they can't barter for better deals with the threat of doing business with a competitor and, as heard on "The Simpsons" (admittedly, during an episode of a season later than when this fan has their personal cut-off point for what is "real" Simpsons, which, IMHO, ends after season 17), and are just looking for content to sell to a consumer.
People can see through if someone really cares about their product/service or not and WILL VOTE with their eyes and wallet! PM being afraid is illustrating the power and glory of free-market competition leading to quality assurance from market forces!
1:08:41 in, YES! Am one to agree with PM here on the disdain for "Discord". Only ever got into the likes of Mumble (meh), Vent (bleh), and TS3 (okay) back when this user played a certain MMO years ago, but really don't care for this "Discord" thing that seems to have taken off. Don't know how the likes of pr0nstars and "The Solid Verbal" (a college football analysis show) keep up with that stuff and people in there all the time. Am one to just use e-mail, and if anything, would suggest substack push-notifications. Just muh two Satoshis' worth!
1:18:13 in, lastly (thanks again for doing this episode, btw), it's "Twitter" NOT "X" (look, Musky has done some good things against the censorship-State, but he clearly has high-level clearance and isn't all that great/good and has said/done some bad things on his own as well, whether in regards to bashing Bitcoin, only to buy it up at a smaller price, pumping a meme coin in DOGE, and believing in cLiMaTe-ChAnGe, he shouldn't have renamed Twitter to such a stupid thing and also should NOT have made it so one has to have an account themselves to see other tweets and poster's histories and the like, because that is incredibly annoying; this user doesn't do Twitter and would like to see, and document if/before they're ever taken down, certain post-chains of various accounts for research and posterity purposes and that's something that has TICKED THIS USER OFF about redderp….how they went with this e-mail requirement now and also how they block access with a VPN on at least one browser this user uses to view redderp (it works with another, despite the VPN). It's bad enough redderp is, iirc, 80% leftist anyways! Am always shadowbanned or banhammered outright on there!
40:26 in, this user was never a "Discord guy", but had to get into it this past year or so for certain activities elsewhere online to use alongside, and 41:36 in, inflation has pretty much destroyed the idea of an "allowance", at least in such a sense. JayNoone speaks at "Anarchapulco" events (and "PorcFest") and he teaches children welding and farming techniques and how one can give children dopamine-hits from meaningful labor as opposed to from the likes of video games and dwugz and sugar! Think smarter, not harder. Also, "discipline" doesn't mean beat the tar outta one's children!
54:17 in, and also, PM and guest, people are just STARVED-FOR-CONTENT, and CONTENT IS KING! Most-all of these "streaming services" are scams, in that, they cut-out the middle-man (further hurting the middle-class, btw) and have less of an incentive to pay those under their own umbrella when they can't barter for better deals with the threat of doing business with a competitor and, as heard on "The Simpsons" (admittedly, during an episode of a season later than when this fan has their personal cut-off point for what is "real" Simpsons, which is after season 17), and are just looking for content to sell to a consumer. People can see through if someone really cares about their product or service or not and WILL VOTE with their eyes and wallet! PM being afraid is illustrating the power and glory of free-market competition leading to quality assurance from market forces!