Three majors and a Ryder Cup captaincy might be the highlights of a stellar career but as John Huggan puts it in the introduction, the most impressive thing about Padraig Harrington is that he’s basically a good bloke.
Harrington sits down with Huggan a week after finishing a remarkable T4 at the PGA Championship at Kiawah Island, a performance that went largely unheralded thanks to the even more remarkable play of Phil Mickelson.
The pair talk elite golf, how to know if a player choked, slow play, the distance debate and much, much more in a wildly entertaining episode of The Thing About Golf.
[Music] hello and welcome to the thing about golf the podcast series from golf Australia magazine that tries to answer that Eternal question of why this game is so addictive for so many my name is Rod Murray and alongside my colleague John hugin we take turns at bringing you in-depth discussion with golfers from every imaginable level of the game and on episode 43 that means going straight to the top as sits down with one of the most interesting thinkers in the game today and perhaps ever European Rider Cup captain and three-time major winner podre Harrington Huggy joins me now to give a little teaser of what’s to come I can say having heard almost the whole chat already it is absolutely worth sticking around for Huggy I don’t think I’ve yet heard a bad interview with Harrington this one’s as good as any if not better but let’s start with your earliest memories of you’ve been covering the game for a long time what do you recall about the first time you heard the name this kid Harrington from Ireland uh well he was one of the top amers um for longer than most I mean he he he points out in the I think in the podcast that he didn’t play in a pro event till he was 24 years old um remarkably he played in three Walker cups uh before he turned Pro which is very very unusual these days for anybody that um isn’t a lifelong amateur um but that was my first memory of him was um you know back when he he was one of the the stud amateurs in in Irish golf I mean he I think he pointed he he loves to point point out that he went about 18 months without you know not winning a tournament in he won every stroke play event and never lost a single play in for Ireland and all kinds of stuff so he was he was a star um he played in 91 93 95 Walker cups before he turned Pro and managed to get himself a an accountancy degree while he was doing that as well so before he all before he turned Pro he he he is always a good interview as I said I really have not ever heard a d interview with Aon he’s an unconventional thinker isn’t he and and at every turn and this chat is the same you find yourself thinking hang on that can’t be right I’ve never thought about it that way and but he in fact he is right he’s a really interesting thinker isn’t he yeah he he circles every subject from you know he he comes at it from every angle and uh and for for people who who who don’t like to listen to me this is the ideal podcast because I don’t think I do much talking it’s h it’s a lot of listening when Podrick gets going but he’s a he’s a fascinating character as you said yeah indeed did people think back then was it one of was he one of those po is the can’t miss kid this guy is going to win Majors or was he just a guy who could possibly win Majors no I mean he was far from it I mean he looked like he was going to have a nice career and when turn he won the Spanish open very early on in his pro career um but nobody thought he was going to be a world beater or you know Rider cup player maybe a rer cup player once or twice but never a star of Rider cups so certainly not many majors um because he had as we say in the podcast I think he had he had every everything you need to be a great golfer except he didn’t hit the ball well enough his his game as a as an Amer was he was a perfect match player because he was annoying he didn’t hit the ball that well but he got up and down from everywhere and just beat people but that wasn’t going to cut the mustard as a pro certainly not at the very highest level so what he took himself off to Bob torren the late Bob torren father of Sam to and that was the one thing he that he needed Bob gave him Bob gave him a swing that could he could hit the ball better or well enough to take advantage of his short game his putting and his mental you know strengths as I say he had everything except the ball striking and Bob gave him that that made the difference it’s quintessentially Harington that isn’t he had everything except the ability to hit the ball well that is exactly sums Harrington up in a nutshell what’s he standing in the game now Huggy in European Golf obviously he’s the rer Cup captain that gives you a certain standing but is he the guy that other guys go to for advice he’s not short or shy in giving opinions about stuff fizzy no and he’s very bright obviously um I have to imagine that he is one of those go-to guys um he’s been a I think he’s been an assistant Captain rer cup three times already and I’m sure he was one of the guys certainly as he became more experienced that the captains of Rider Cup teams that he was playing in went to to to you know sound you get his opinion on things um so yes I mean he he’s as you say plus he’s got an opinion on everything uh but yeah I just I just I’ve I’ve always liked him as well I think he he’s far more importantly maybe he’s a he’s a likable human being and he’s got a lovely wife Carling she’s she’s terrific as well she’s always got time for people they’re they’re well matched pair and you know they’re just um he’s just a good guy I mean that’s the bottom line he’s a good guy talking about him like he’s some sort of older Statesman H he finished fourth at the PGH last week behind a 50-year-old Phil Michelson so he’s probably far from well he’s 49 he’s he’s closing in on 50 he’ll be 50 on the I think it’s the last day of August is his birthday uh so the Senior PGA is going on in America uh this week um Harington will be playing in that next year I’ve no doubt and and that would wouldn’t be surprised if he won it indeed well I think we were just saying before we turned on the the record button here what I would absolutely love hug you would have two microphones one for Harrington one for Jeff ogy and just leave the room because I think I’ve heard both of them referred to as the best interview in golf and I reckon it’s probably a playoff they’re both fantastic and it’s been fantastic to listen to your one today uh thanks for joining us to have a chat and really can’t recommend enough that the the listeners stick around but thanks for your time this morning no problem my pleasure pic Harington welcome to the thing about golf podcast um I normally start these things by asking the the obvious question what is the thing about golf for you but um I’m going to break with tradition I think in view of recent events and ask you what did the uh the 49-year-old poric hington make of the 50-year-old Phil Michelson winning the uspga last week I suppose it was it it from selfish reasons it was a positive H when you see somebody else winning H it makes more tangible it makes it real I think when I won my first major I always said at the time that Michael Campbell had won H the US Open I played a lot of practice rounds with Michael Campbell uh you know we played a lot of golf and and it just made it more realistic that I could go on and win a major so yeah maybe Phil’s win could help me H believe that it’s possible but it was phenomenal what he did and it takes his personality because you know as you get older you lose your innocence you you know you have that scar tissue H and Phil Phil hasn’t don’t don’t don’t believe that Phil doesn’t stand that on the te or anywhere else and not have the fears and that that we all get as we get a little older I think though he refuses to to bow to that weakness and I think I was explaining it he hit it in the water on 13 on start on hole on the right people would say oh well you know the hole of the golf course on the left but Phil’s personality would refus to let him Miss left because that would be weak a weak that he couldn’t handle H he had to go he you know he has to go for and and he does it does cause him problems at times because he as I said he will always miss the worst spot because he’s afraid of bailing out into the into the into the you know a choking spot let’s say yeah hitting in the water is not choking hit it hitting it safe would have been choking yeah so so there’s a bit of ego involved in that then I think it’s well it’s the only way he knows it’s the only way I would know too that you you know as I said it’s just you know there is there somebody could draw a graph of that equilibrium that sweet spot of hey you know experience is good you’re gaining experience but in is also good and you’re losing that at some point they cross and after that H you know it’s it’s no use being more experienced and I I I think you know I would be in the same boat as filling that that you know H we overthink things we you know we just make it a little harder than we need to but you sometimes you just can’t don’t see something and that’s that’s you know when you get to our age H physically I can hit all the golf shots and so can f that I I maybe even better than I could have uh back in the day H but you know mentally there’s just just that little bit of Scar issue I know myself I only finished four shots back and I I put it so tentatively on sun all the way through yeah and you just wish you could open up and and just like logically I could I could tell you what to do but actually doing it is a different thing yeah I mean generally speaking it’s the it’s the putting where that kind of shows up first isn’t it is that fair to say oh I would think so yes yeah AB but but everybody gets it a little different you get guys who lose are driving some guys lose their chipping H definitely the pting H yeah like I know by 2013 it started to to hit me on the pting and uh only this year I started putting a bit better this like first time this year I I put it a lot better on my short puts this year uh but strangely enough now I was I was very dodgy on my long butts at I from 20 ft you know I I don’t think I made a comfortable stroke for for a good while during the week which is I I know why so I I just didn’t do it right that week H so it’s not something that I can’t overcome I’m not worried about it but yeah it’s it you know you think you could be a you could tell yourself all your like don’t worry about it don’t overthink it just Just Let It Go but H you know when you’re actually doing it uh yeah I was tentative very tentative is is it the fear of missing I mean can you verbalize it is it that simple or is there more to it I it not not not of missing it’s a fear of messing up of the next of of of you know the consequences you overthink the conse and it’s you add in control I like I can give you the solution if you want so if anybody’s out there and they’re they’re struggling with pting or chipping what actually happens is in their preparation they have a lot going on in their head so when they get over the ball they also have a lot going on and if if you ever want to read a great book and this chimp Paradox by Steve Peters so essentially your your your brain is just racing from one to other to all different points H scrambling to try and get something to focus on and it’s got too much going on and that’s what causes the anxiousness right so if you just pick one thing and stick to it over and over and over and over and over on every time you you approach it once you get comfortable one thing your mind settles down and you you don’t have that that anxiousness and what happened to me last week as I said I have been putting well is I kept going to the Ping green and trying to improve my pting and of course every time you try and improve it you add something in yeah and then of course I had couple of couple of thoughts in my head and and just you know was racing you just got to simplify it and have one thought that consumes you and that that then as if you want to read that book The chimp Paradox the chimp just settles down and does what and and leaves it leaves it leaves everything to run on on automatic yeah but you’re I mean you’re not exactly the same as Phil though I mean that scenario that you just described on the Phil’s attitude to the 13th hole which mean he hit it in the water again on the 13th the next day with his second shot but that doesn’t sound like you in my experience I mean where would you have been different standing on that te compared with Phil uh there there’s an awful lot of that in me when I’m under pressure I I’m I I I’m I’m stubborn I’m I’m very similar to Phil I I I I refuse to to follow the crowd I don’t want to do what anybody else would do I I I just I wanted stubbornly I want to do it my own way and a different way to everybody else so if everybody was doing it right I’d still try and find a different way to do it well that does sound like you yeah yeah yeah and it’s just yeah I I I I would I know this sounds strange but like if if if I was coming down the last hole and and and it’s easier Under Pressure i’ got to say but if I was coming down the last hole and it was a whole like 1 war on the right and sort of Temptation to go left even though it’s not good to be left it would kill me to choke and hit it left I lost the tournament I lost the the European open the at the k club to Michel Campbell uh I’m hitting the six iron into the last of power five and I hit it in the water with all the whole golf course on the right yeah my only thought was not to bail out right with my second shot I and I I that’s that was a stupid thought I should have been trying to hit a great shot but it just you know sometimes yeah I I’d say I’m very like Phil that I get these mad ideas that you know I don’t want to chicken out I don’t want want to be a choker I don’t want to bail out and and then actually end up hitting the worst shot whereas you know in the right frame of mind you wouldn’t be trying to do either yeah I I I don’t like the idea of bailing out I think that’s weak so I wouldn’t be here’s another one that that I think you’re a complete choker if you hit your foot too hard on the last scen through the break right this is this is the I I watch all the the the the commentator the guy would be standing over a fo or girl for you know 15 footer to to get in the playoff and he hits it three feet by and the comment well he gave it a run that’s a complete choke you have to be very brave to trust the pace and line that you choose to hit it and you may leave a put short so a good putter may leave it short but a bad put the amount of people who choke on the 18 green by hitting their puts too hard and and completely and but it doesn’t look bad mhm yeah they walk away and say oh I gave it a good run no you didn’t you hit it three feet too hard you no chance at that pace you hit it on the wrong line you’ve got to be so that that would be those would be my mindsets and I’m very I know Phil is very similar to me you have to be so brave if you’ve got a put win in the last that you’re actually not thinking of the worst thought you can have is to get it be up to the hole Yeah Yeah the only thought is hold it whatever that mean yeah yeah you’re right I mean it makes sense yeah it would be a terrible thought also to think I’m don’t want to hit it by the hole I I I’m I’m saying have no thought as regards hitting it too hard or hitting it too easy just have a to hold it yeah yeah I mean it’s like saying you know that missing it long is better than missing it short but what you should really be focusing on is actually making the P you know exactly that is exactly the point if if you’re last talk if if your last thought is B you’re likely to miss the P where if your last thought is just hold it you know you you’ve got the best chance you have but you may leave it short and everybody all those people don’t understand will criticize you for leaving it short but that’s they just they’re just really not they’re they are the chokers they’re they’re ones who are are useless yeah this sounds you’re never going to make a television commentator because that’s what they say all the time when somebody does that I I I look I I I just love it because they’re buying into that perpetuating the myth and I know the amount of people I’ve seen do that in playoffs and things like that and they just go wow that they they just got caught up in in not wanting to be embarrassed by leaving a put short that’s important but if you’re a good putter you will leave the odd put short because that’s the nature of being a good putter you’re not you know yeah anyway the Phil Phils Victory um remarkable as it was it’s just the kind of latest uh episode in what I’m starting to call the year of the geizer I mean we’ve had Westwood and Stuart sink and Richard Bland and yourself doing well last week I mean there’s a whole pile of people in their mid to late 40s suddenly doing well is there is there something going on or is this just a coincidence I I I would think there’s a coincidence in that you you have more players doing well at that age I think clearly as we get older players are Fisher and stronger in the in in the instance of a of you know Stuart sink is a very long hitter always has been and found it very easy to be a long hitter so he doesn’t give up anything Phil has made the effort to be a long hitter yeah Lee West is a great ball Striker and has maintained his he’s maintained his distance but he’s probably lost out to the field in distance but he’s still he’s still such a good driver at the ball so if you want to be competitive older nowadays you know you you can’t give up much you can’t sort of you know it’s not a question you can go there and play against these young guys if you’re if you’re giving up 25 yards off the tea and and and a couple of clubs in in irons you’re just it’s just too much to do but the guys you’re picking there have have have all sustained themselves quite well and Lee Lee Lee would be the one that hasn’t gained distance but he’s such a good driver at the ball that you know relatively he can gain off the te in Strokes gain so it it’s not something that hurts him let’s say but the Stewart in one is you know people were talking about that I’m I’m laughing at that because he’s always been exceptionally long without having to hit the golf ball very hard so it’s been easy for him in that sense to to stay competitive yeah yeah what what do you think of the theory that I mean I hate to pick on one tournament talking about last week I mean Phil winning and you doing well um and even Shane Lowry who’s a you know our class is a kind of more an artist and a scientist in this modern world I mean there’s a theory knocking about that um you take these the younger Lads uh out of their sort of PJ tour bubble if you like where the if you can certainly argue that the the challenge every week is very difficult but it’s kind of the same every week and you take them outside that narrow form of golf and they they struggle a little bit because there was I think I saw a startat that um none of the top 15 on the FedEx Cup points finished in the top 15 last week is that just a coincidence or is there more to that than you think when that that’s that is a coincidence that the top 15 players in the BJ tour can play golf They on different styles of golf course I I would agree with you that the standard as the standard of play improves and and it gets deeper it’s very hard you know if if you’re competing against one guy who hits it a long way straight and has to have a good week to be any good well you you kind of discount that but there’s 30 or 40 guys in the field that they’re not great H artists let’s say but they can hit the golf ball well well I guarantee you one of one of those 30 or 40 guys is is not going to come up against odd situations or get a few bad lies or get you know one of them’s going to play well and it’s going to be hard to beat so I think that’s it is much harder to win a regular PJ Tour event than it is to win a major like it is it is just such a like trying to win a a regular PJ Tour event is like running 100 meters it is a Sprint from the word go if you’re not 500 after nine you’re star to panic because the death there’s so many guys willing to play whereas you go to a major and especially a major like K Island where where there is wind and there’s there’s a lot of variety and what you have to do it feels very much like am maritan you can take your time don’t worry about things be careful H you know don’t make Bogies be patient whereas you know at a regular event you’ve got to get going quick yeah yeah it is very tough to beat beat 30 players and and and you know let’s let’s I go to Bryson D Shambo Bryson Des shampo is a worldclass player who made himself a long hitter so he would have won tournaments and one major so look let’s let’s face it he’s not a perfect example of this but if you get one guy like Bryson the Shambo who’s hit the golf ball at 200 mile an hour and and we already had we already had several of them in terms of Brandon hagy H Cameron Champ all were up at those speeds okay but nobody worried about one guy nobody worries about one guy but if you got 30 guys like Bryce and Des Shambo all hitting at 200 M hour or 40 of them well you you you know the field couldn’t compete with that because the winner would come from those four yeah because he one of them would hit it straight that week one of them would have a good week and the greens and if you know if somebody’s hitting a 40 yards past you it’s not a big deal if it’s only one guy but if he’s having a good day it is a big deal and if there’s 40 of them one of them will have a good day yeah I mean I was saying this a couple of years ago when when kka was winning you know seemed like every major or just every second major I mean my me I’m a big fan of I think he’s a terrific player obviously but um my concern was that that his way of playing was going to become the only way to play at that level and you’re you seem to be subscribing to that theory but by what you’re saying is that is that fair or is that is that the road we’re headed down I don’t know I would put K as a player I think he knows how to play golf I don’t put him as as as as as as a guy who just you know like and I see this there’s plenty of guys out there who just you know stick them in the trees and the only thing they would do is Chip out they don’t know what to do you know put them in an awkward lie and they don’t know what to do kka is not that play ke K is a is a is a player who can manage all conditions and and he he’s yes he’s a strong pair hits the ball well but he’s he’s lent now for what we would see out on tour you know he he’s you know there’s nothing he he he’s in the pack he’s not he’s not he’s he’s not one of these guys way up there so I would put him as actually guy from his European H play and from his challeng and and I’ve got to say I his chipping he’s he’s improved his chip of no end with P I would go and say this CH is not that guy he’s a who can manage all golf courses all conditions but there’s a bunch of lads out there who you know for sure give them a bad lie on The Fairway they’d be the sort of guys that want every Fairway to be perfectly manicured Every Lie To Be flash never to you know never to have a bad lie and the perfect guy wins every week there’s a bunch of those who are hard to beat yeah but not not ke he he he can he can get down and and and you know when it’s tough and and and and you know with variety and whatever is going on he he he’s tough he would play yeah yeah well I’m glad to hear that because as I say I worry about the you know the direction of elite golf in terms of certainly the distance and and just the style of play I mean the yeah but the days of Luke Donald being number one for example are basically gone are they not what I see going ahead you’re goingon to we’re going to come to a there’s going to be a lot more long hitters so like when I came out tour 170 ball speed if you had that you were amply long there was never going to build a golf course that you had a problem with yeah now it’s 180 ball speed you want to have 180 ball speed or else you know you’re giving up to the field in a in certain situations it will become 190 ball speed but it’s not going to go you know 190 to 200 it’s not going to go ridiculously past that H you know we’re s of getting the baseball numbers that you’re really at the end of of of the physicality but it will go to those speeds what will happen is eventually somebody with with 200 M hour ball speed within themselves so they be you know like I know Des shambo’s got there but he’s he’s obviously making a big effort you’re going to get a guy who’s who’s comfortably able to do that yeah and he’ll a real player so you will find some of these guys will know like a Tiger Woods will know how to play from all sorts of lies and and all sorts of shots and the right shot at the right time that that will come so the Artistry will come back in but in the changeover at the moment yes there is a big advantage to just being able to H hit the one shot over and over with a bit of power yeah so I I I I I hope it’s a transition or or else we just have to go back to the to uh we’ll have to dial something back that would make it a lot if we got the back it would make it a lot easier a lot simpler well I I do worry that I mean you know what you just described I mean where are where are these guys going to play 10 years from now well I will say we played at the ocean course last week 7,800 yards the longest course uh we we have encountered in a major and all I was concerned about I’m 49 years of age all I was concerned about was run outs I I found course the course did not play long that’s that’s no no issue whatsoever with lent the whole week like we’re talking most of the time we were looking at who bit of a run out here there you know you were you it was tough to hit some of those Fairways with the dog legs H with run out so it was a perfect setup and they did move a few T’s forward so you know H you know they were very sensible with with the way they set the golf course up but but I I can tell you and I’ve always said this you turn up on the Monday of a major and you go how am I going to get around this brute by the time you play the golf course in the tournament assuming decent weather the Fairway Fair up H you know all of a sudden it just doesn’t play you’re you’re that power forward that you thought was a brute you end up hitting nine IR it and and you could you you get pumped up in Majors I I think the biggest problem you have in golf is what you see on the TV does not reflect what golfers are playing oh no no like you know we’re playing 7,800 yards Phil M hit a drive on H that 366 yard drive on the 50 yeah it was it was 177 mph go speed which is it’s great for Phil mickson but it’s far from spectacular in terms of of of of a powerful drive and but with the conditions and all that the ball goes way you he make the same swing at home in you know in Ireland during the winter that’s going 260 right okay not 360 so you know I think people at home are are are they’re sucked into this idea like I I regularly hit my seven iron on tour you know 190 you know that would be you know on a nice warm day yeah I go 190 certainly 185 I can go to 195 yeah you know again at home and I’m talking wind at home I’m talking temperature at home you know that’s 160 165 yeah so we we we there there is they never if if we play golf in the winter in or not even the winter in the spring and Autumn say in Great Britain and Ireland we would never ever need to roll back any piece of equipment that’s true we need to warm it up but yes if you play golf in this not like the golf balls perform unbelievable in 90 of heat unbelievable when it gets warm so I would I would I would go and say yeah professional golf is just not a great representation of golf and remember Sly that the gap between the game that you play and the game I play has never been bigger than it is now and it’s only going to get bigger probably yeah yeah yeah I I but professional golf is what like it wouldn’t be it wouldn’t be a tent of a percent of it’s irrelevant statistically you’re right yeah yes and and and I will say we have way too much sway over the game of golf the the the the RNA and the USA represents so many more golfers and they really should be the ones to take a stand and you know it’s they’re running the game for the good of the game whereas professional C is running running an entertainment business yeah for you know and and it’s a different model and neither of them are wrong but they you know we there you you can’t let professionals have that much of a say over what is the good of the game because the good of the game is all about the amateurs and and and and the ones who are going to play and enjoy the game and and drive the game along for years but I don’t know the full Solutions is it h you know separate rules or it’s it’s hard to know it really is hard well I mean been I’ve been in favor of what they call bifurcation for a while now because I think that we already have it um I’ve argued this with Martin Slumbers and Peter Dawson his predecessor saying well you’ve you’ve created bifurcation Now by not really doing you know controlling the the distance that the players the pro at it I’ll ask you this question so do you want to do you want to draw back the amateurs or do you want to dra back no not at all no no I mean give the amateurs just about every break they can get to make it whatever makes it more fun for those guys I’m all for it but for you guys as I said the My worry is it’s not the scores that the offend me it’s the it’s the way that the golf courses get played I mean last week was a refreshing exception and I was on a positive not I was heartened to see how well wasn’t really surprised to see how well Shane Lowry played because me that’s right up his street I mean you you know him better than anybody probably and I mean he’s so creative and and you see all these different shots and mean that’s the kind of go I want to watch I’m a bit of a romantic in that respect I plead guilty to that but you know I do worry that as I say the the Gap is bigger and we should just acknowledge that you know yeah so but it is an interest it is interesting once we acknowledge that there’s a that there is a difference do we do we turn around toes and say as I said okay you see the guy on TV I saw I saw Brooks at N9 iron into 11 from I think it was 200 MH you know and and everybody go oh my God that’s unbelievable I I I can you know Brooks’s nine iron balls speed is going to be pretty much like maybe a couple of miles an hour quicker than the the next Pro it’s not he hasn’t turned into Kyle berer overnight or something like that they that’s very circumstantial to the conditions and the weather and and and being up again if he was at home playing into a cold wind it’s going 130 he was backand so it’s just they’re two different products really at the end of the day professional golf and amateur golf h two different and like for me I would say the roll back for amateurs the issue I have is obviously golf courses are too expensive to build yeah you you you can’t change old golf courses if they’re landlocked I find that maintenance of golf course if you build them are too expensive walking around a big golf course takes forever and that’s probably my biggest like you go play St Andrews now and you have to walk back 60 yards 70 yards to tea boxes that’s L I did I did that um I don’t know be 18 months ago I went out and just and on a Sunday and just walked around and I added um 2,000 it took me it was 2,000 yards I walked between the previous green and the next you know Championship te and Back Again it added 2,000 yards to the walk up okay so up and back was 2,000 yard yeah yeah yeah look it’s a lot of time every time you build a new te you know 20 30 yards further back that’s adding maybe you know at least a minute if not near two minutes pace of play which is is is crucial in the game look every golf course I’ve ever every Golf Course owner I’ve ever talked to and I’m going to tell you it’s free piece of advice to all the people out Golf Course build a quick set of T boxes which basically is a t boxers close to the back of the green going in the direction of the next yeah that’s how they used to build the golf course now I know you can’t use that when you’re when the course is busy but when two two people are out there having a quick you know carrying their bag want to quick game of golf just tea off on the back of the hole of the green and off you go you know just and and it yes some holes would be shorter and some holes would be longer but this walk of backwards 60 70 yards and and there is an awful lot of pressure in gol to speed up H you know the the biggest problem in golf look golf always has this reputation as a rich man’s sport uh but the reality is you do have to be rich you have to be rich in time H it’s the biggest thing to constrain people playing the game staying in the game and and and loving the game is they don’t have time yeah well I’m glad you brought that up because I was going to ask you about you know again last week uh John Catlin the American lad who plays on the European tour was done a stroke for slow play took too long um now I was watching I don’t hate to pick out Phil but I’m going to pick out Phil because there is no way that he didn’t break the rules multiple times there’s the consistency in that you know I ever be in my B you over this there is no rule go say you have to play within 40 seconds there is a rule of golf on in professional golf now that you have to play within two minutes right what I’m what I’m saying is that last week that the rule that Catelyn broke Phil broke multiple times he didn’t he did not oh oh he did he did wait I’m not saying he didn’t take more than 40 seconds yeah there’s no rule in golf you’ve got to play within 40 seconds there’s no rule on the tour you got to play within 40 seconds well why was CN why was Catelyn penalized then because he was told he was on the clock once you’re on the clock you have to play within 50 seconds if you’re first to play 40 seconds if you’re second to play and that 40 seconds has a has a small now they have tightened it up the obvious question p is is why was Phil not on the clock because he was he was on the clock on day two with well he wasn’t on day on the last round I mean he was he was way over in the last day multiple times but but was he not within the he wasn’t on the clock as his group within time well so 40 seconds is not a rule of golf you can take more than 40 no I’m not saying you should take more usually it takes about 20 seconds to hit a golf shot when you’re in position okay as in it takes a little long the 40 seconds only ever becomes an issue when you know if you’re say if you were off the green and you wanted to walk up in you’re 60 70 feet or something like that that t a bit of time yeah so you you have to be aware but it’s very simple the group must keep up okay if your group doesn’t keep up the referee comes along and they give you a warning say keep up once you if you don’t make that catch up then you’re going to be putting the clock yeah when you’re putting the clock you have to be very I’m going to explain how this works and this is why John C Catlin got penalized John Catlin I’ve played with John Catlin John Catlin needs to be more aware of this is slow I mean I wasn’t complaining about him getting penalized by any means but this is my point he needs to be more aware too the better this is going to be you’re not going to like this John I’ve heard this before but I know what you’re going to say so are aware so they know okay they’re doing their job they’re they’re paying attention and and you know but when if they’re putting the clock they’re extra aware now what I mean by that is they know if they hit it on the Fairway hit it on the Green that 40 seconds is plenty of time to do whatever they need to do MH but they’re aware that if they’re out of position hang in a second we’ve got to be you know on top of this and and and you’ll see us you see I because I was in that group that was timed with Phil on on Friday you will see we will so the difference being is if if if I’m walk I walk down the Fairway my caddy if I’m not on the clock if I’m on the clock my caddy is going to run down that Fairway be 50 yards ahead of me have all the yardage done I’ll have my yardage book out 50 yard short of my ball and I’ll have everything done yardage everything in place before I get my ball so that I don’t have I I’m obviously I’m speeding up because I’m on the clock H but I’m making sure that those full as I said it takes 20 seconds so I know that if I have everything under control when I get to the golf ball H you know it’s not 20 seconds I can relax don’t have to Panic it’s no you will Panic about it because you never ever stop if you’re on the clock you’re always aware of it Phil even said it Bill said it on he and we weren’t on the clock on the SEC our second last hole he missed the green and he said he wanted to step off of but he was afraid that he was going to get a bad time as the and as H myself and Jason day who probably a bit more aware than Phil both was turned and said no the referee has left us on the last hole we’re not on the clock anymore right I’m interested in thoughts and all this because I mean back in the day you were the kind of poster boy for slow play for a bit I mean what did you do to address that very harsh yes I well you come on I would say pace play has cost me so many shots in my career it’s untrue right I I I just I look back if if I was teaching anybody GE you know you never ever want to be concerned about your pace of play and I’ve always been concerned about my pace of play I show was H you know I ABS they time everybody in the States now all the time so I’m absolutely average now yeah right you I mean you clearly did something about it though I mean I’m just interested in in what you did because well I I’d be aware yeah it’s very annoying when you’re in a group that somebody isn’t aware I I have no problem with playing with a player who’s who is who is sorry I do have a problem playing with a player who’s stupidly slow right I have no problem playing with I I had no problem playing with Phil Mixon last week if you’re saying is I had no problem because I I didn’t see any situation that he wasn’t ready to play he was doing and and that’s all you can ask your playing partners that they’re somewhat aware that it’s their turn to play and and and and that you’re they’re not there’s nothing worse than playing with a guy you know maybe first a hit and and you know you’re you’re finished ready you’re ready to go and he still got his glove out or something like yeah you see that a lot yeah I mean there’s a lot of head shaking goes on when you see that yeah yeah that that that’s that’s that’s unfair to your playing practice but it’s not unfair to like there’s players who are information gatherers who need information and they have to figure a way to get that information within a reasonable time but they’re never going to be quick so like somebody like me I want to know that the pin is six from the back and four from the left and and and and eight over the bunker and 14 from the front whereas Angel Cera I remember he just wanted to know one yardage watch to the pin 92 good off I go so you know there are people who are instinctive and go and you can’t expect somebody to play somebody else’s way and I I always find that fascinating that every quick player who’s ever been in the game always thinks that everybody should play at their pace and you’re going that’s that’s that’s true yeah so that’s that’s just so ignorant to think that everybody should play at the same place we all should play within within the rules and within reason H and definitely if you’re a slow player you lose your rights to a lot of things if you’re a slow player and that maybe what you’re getting at I’m going Tove to do a lot I’m going to move you on because you know I’m I promise I’ll never describe you as the poster boy for slow play again I clearly struck a nerve there so as I said it’s cost me aot of shots over the years because I’m looking like I’m slow I so I I’ve penalized myself far more times by for in my own head H and Drop shots based on it than than I would have ever have if if I could get away from being the person who wants to know all the information yeah yeah anyway let me go back to the the question that I normally open um these podcasts with what what was back at the back in the day the the thing about golf for you I mean what what got you into it I mean what what was the attraction I I got into it because my dad built a golf course 50 with with for the police in Ireland he built a course for about 15 minutes from my home and it became my playground and eventually I hung out there a lot and while I played all other sports and would would have assumed I was going to be a galic footballer as my sport I had success in golf and and you know letting in a couple of goals playing soccer on the weekend or or winning uh a competition on the weekend made it very easy to go golf is the one for me so it was it’s it’s the competitive side of it the the I supp early success and and just love being around it because of Yeah you mentioned the the Go I mean I’ve seen your hands are you are your hands permanently you know misshapen if I can put it that way are they still that way or is that some of your yeah every goalkeeper you’ll ever come across fingers or all all all over the place you know they stick it’s it’s bizarre when you when you like I love the idea of Youth Development when it comes to sport but when it comes to H soccer I’m going to call it soccer at the moment I know that will insult a lot of people I I I was I take gaay football yeah so right and of course when gaay football guys go to play soccer they go oh you can catch the ball you go in goals so I ended up in goals in soccer and that’s how my goalkeeping career started off but they put you gos at 12 years of age and you can’t even come close to the crossbar like it’s bizarre that they don’t have a smaller pitch H and and then you’re like I I the one thing I could always do when I play football sorry I learned to do was I could kick the ball because at 12 years of age you’re trying to clear your lines on a cold Winter’s morning and you can hardly get it outside the 18 yard box and it’s coming back in twice as fast and always above your head the amount of goals that you that would the ball would in flying over your head into the net and of course I’d be trying to catch those well save them and I’d sprain my fingers and every week I I’d say I spent the whole season every year with sprain fingers strapping them up trying to keep them so I mean how do how would you describe them now and how you know how much of an effect has that had on your golf grip I mean I wouldn’t think it had any effect if if if you know I I’ve rightous in in with my left hand and one of the fingers and I I would I will feel it on a old wet day but outside of that they just they just I won’t make it as a hand model H if I had one brevance you know you know I prefer clearly as a golfer I prefer to have bigger hands and bigger feet right but you know everything else doesn’t bother me that those two would be quite quite good for golf you know it is the old an analogy that I think was Jack who said Give me a man with big hands and big feet who can dance and we make a golfer yeah well I remember back in day when I was just a kid a member at the golf club who was a good player said to me you need three things son to be a good golfer you need a big big hands big feet and a big heed but you got one of the very good yes I do have a very large Cranium but that’s another subject yes I I will say I I remember playing a match as a kid yeah and and somebody I played a shot out of the trees and oh God he’s got great hands I took that as a big ins and it’s it’s the Fest thing from the truth gray hands is what you need for go but at the time it was all about I suppose it was more falo teaching of you know really take it’s all about the body and take the hands out of it yeah when talking about your your amateur life now um when did it become clear that uh you were a bit of a stud um you I’m assuming you progressed all the way through the boys’s youths F International like you know you tick those boxes on way up to Walker cup Etc I mean but how how soon did it become clear that there was some Talent there talent wise I I don’t know I made it to the Irish boys when I was 15 the under 18 team but I don’t think and and maybe this is why I I ended up good I don’t think I ever was considered to be the star even though I was the best at every level player but I never like I never played a pro event until his 24 years of age so I wasn’t that even though I could beat all the other 13 year olds 50 you know as I was 13 15 18 whatever age I was I I dominated at at my level H I never lost the SE I never lost a home International singles match yeah you you’ve told me that before yeah so I’m so proud H you know I I never lost Europeans yeah you know so these are the things I could beat people but I guarantee you when I turn and pro and i’ played three Walker cups at that stage you know nobody would have been looking and going this is the guy that definitely going to make it this guy even though if you if you didn’t see me play because I didn’t have a great golf swing I didn’t have a pretty golf swing if you only saw my results I think you would have said I I was going to make it yeah I mean the people I’ve talked to about you you back in the day they said you had the perfect game for match play yeah J was I good at match play I I half a shots better than I am as a golfer now in match play back then yeah in terrible I don’t even like I wish I had the the that ability to to be so much in the moment one shot at a time H and and I was scared of my life that’s why it was good I used to think I was going to get beaten so hyped up that I was going to get beaten or the conditions would beat me H that I I would just play phenomenal in in and on the toughest of golf courses in tough like crazy stuff I stuff I couldn’t do now H but again like I never played in the Eisen her which is the fourman Great Britain Ireland team H so you know I I I remember I didn’t get picked in the eyes there again I would have told you this H yeah you’re still bitter about this I can tell oh very much it’s I hadn’t I hadn’t been I had been beaten in Ireland at stroke play for 18 months and I didn’t make a stroke play Team yeah yeah so you know I I don’t likees either but you can see how you I I can assume you know if you’re not we we get lost in go if if if a guy is like 6 foot two blond big shoulders you everybody assumes that he’s a great golfer because he’s got a great golf swing but just because you look like it doesn’t mean you are it you know in the end of the day we get very much caught up in in in in life with making our judgments and assumptions based on what we see but in golf in particular most of the time it’s the hidden value that you can’t see determines how good of golf you know it’s it’s the X yeah what were the highlights and low lights of your amateur life H low light the highlights I you know played three Walker cups you know I won the Irish close I won the Irish I I lost an Irish closeth I remember with two up with three to play that was pretty tough I lost an Irish you h two ahead with Tre I cried after losing that one uh low lights I’m I’m suspecting or expecting you to mention KUSI oh yeah yeah well that that I never really got a great run the British amateur because it was always I I was studying accountancy and the exams were always on so I used to miss it m and when I did get to play Cary was the one I had a great opportunity I was playing great H and Steven Dundas who went on to win it beat me in the last 16 I think H so it wasn’t like it was the semi-final or final but yeah I finished H I think I finished six in order for Steven to beat me I hit it out of bounds on the 18 hole how you I you know I at this stage if if I didn’t win the playoff in 2007 uh after messing up the 72nd hole I think I would secretly going back to dig up the 18 hole well I was just going to ask you I mean how much was that going through your mind the the amateur maybe not that much but uh you know maybe afterwards it certainly would have by the sound of it but I mean that hole is incredibly difficult at the best of times but uh was that was that did it occur to you oh my god I’ve done this again sort of thing oh yeah absolutely and worse the second time around because not alone that I had my own own H scar tissue from from the amateur hitting outbounds with a six iron from the Fairway H I had Vel Scar Tissue as well you didn’t you know you like I made six from chipping and putting from what 48 yards so I was very close to Vel 7 and we know how many shots he hit at the hole so like you know so yeah look the 18 of Carusi has got to be the toughest finishing hole in competitive gol there’s dram every every single there’s nowhere that’s it’s just nothing you can do to avoid it you’re going to have to take some of the trouble on and some of the shots at some stage it is and would yeah it’s just it’s probably the way a golf course should finish yeah you know but I’m interested in that is that a still a a cold sweat aspect to this and do you wake up in the middle of the night thinking you know there but for the great of God you know that that you got up and down for the six and and didn’t take the seven and you know I I I I absolutely and in in and and in two senses as well only that I won at birdale the following year and obviously I went on to win two more mes I I think even winning at Carusi I it’s as exciting as it was to win your first Mage messing up the 72nd hole would have left questions and I would I would have definitely had if that was my only major I I you know as much as a great to win a major I it would have been a burden rather than anything else H most one-time major winners it does become a burden but certainly winning the way I you know messing up the 72 second hole you know you never want to be known as somebody who who who cracked Under Pressure H now great to come back in the playoff but winning in 2008 certainly gave me that was a much more satisfying feeling the way I won in berkdale to which made Cari more palatable that wasn’t the dream way of winning yeah I mean it’s hypothetical but had you not won it Ki would you have won the other two do you think no I don’t think so yeah if I had won at Carusi I think I I I I think it would have broken for sure you know I know I come back from making mistakes in in the past H you know my my whole career has been a learning curve like that I I as I said I named plenty of amateur tournaments where H I I’ve made lost them and I lost plenty of pro tournaments and you’re always learning but when you lose at the very Pinnacle you know that’s the one you’re trying to win you know all those other losses were to get me to Cary and and and the if I had lost on that and it’s the only time on the golf course when I hit my second my third shot the Warfare in Cari on the 0 it’s the only time in my whole golfing career that I was embarrassed the only time I felt like I was choking the only time I wanted to give up and thankfully my caddy who Ron and who who who we’ worked on we’ worked with Bob Rella he started into a complete H I don’t know you call it a rant but a SP of all the cliches it’s not over come on one shot at the time let’s play it out let’s see what’s happening and I I I I think he took the four iron off me because I would have hit him with it I I’ve never you know I am the most optimistic person you know you know F hard guy that was the one time that was so destroying to make to mess up this that like that under pressure when it really counted this was and and and on the 72nd hole I was one shot ahead so it was my tournament to win MH and I it up this other major championships have had a chance of winning you know I haven’t had the lead where it’s mine I’ve had the position where if I do things right I could win it but this is the one it was mine at that stage and uh my cad talked me around I’d say for 50 yards I wanted to kill him for 50 yards I was listening to him and for the last 50 yards you know and it wasn’t much more than 150 yards I believed them yeah you were on board yeah yeah yeah you know and you know cliches I and I tell the story afterwards I remember telling it you know that I believed what he said and you know I I was so proud that he he he hadn’t given up I given up and he and he he told me after about a month after me telling the stories to many people he says you know H it wasn’t that I believed I thought you lost the effing open too I just doing my job yeah yeah it’s interesting yeah I mean it’s it sounds like um to me anyway I I Haven really asked you this question before but the it sounds like berdale gave you the most pleasure of the three is that fair first one was very exciting your first is always exceptionally exciting my second in birday major was the most satisfying H just the way it went about I you I couldn’t have written the script for I could have written the script when I was 15 for birthday exactly how write yeah everything was perfect about it the the drama the excitement the way I played the shot I hit in the 7 first told to have the big lead and wave at the crowds and 18 everything about was like a like what a kid would imagine that’s not real life and then winning in Oakland Hills I stole it nothing better than stealing one I just stood in at the right time and grabbed it one more hole one less hole it wasn’t my championship at at at Oakland Hills I would just took the right moment and grabbed it and stole and very very that’s very sweet I can tell you yeah there’s three very different ways to win really yeah but but this is the thing isn’t it you know you know kids out there everybody commentators whatever like to tell you that there’s only one set way that everybody who wins is the best player best swinger best everything went right but when you look back at the wins and I as I said all my wins and I look at other people’s it’s amazing the amount of coincidental things that happen the week you wi loads of little things happen and it could be as simply as you’re not getting a bad break H that you don’t even know about but it’s it’s not it’s not totally all the time your control is putting you in a position that when you get a good break or when you don’t get a bad break that you get the win out it the the things that happen on the golf course because it’s outdoors there’s so much more going on that you know and and I think this is the problem I mentioned earlier about a lot of onetime major winners you know you’re always trying to live up to what to the expectations of how you thought you played but you know the week you won the tournament I guarantee you you played okay and you’ve got lots of good breaks and lots of things that just made you you you know as I said you hold a six foot for par On a par four you’ll walk to the next te thinking you hit a good drive and a good approacher you missed that 64 and you’re walking the nextt thinking you’re you’re swinging the club badic nothing to do with how you’re swing the six footer but hey it changes your and and we’re unfortunately in Gulf we can’t get away from it we’re quite fickle like that and it’s easier to it’s easier for me to tell you H it’s easier for me to tell the next person how that how they should think but it’s it’s it’s do as I say not as I do yeah do you subscribe to the theory that um not every player who’s W of major is a great player but that every great player has won a major no there’s certainly some great players who hav one Majors yeah I I cly it leaves something wanting and and and the truth of it is yes I would have to say there are people who have won Majors that are not great players but it still doesn’t take away from the great achievement and and the fact of the matter is in Gulf the really the only way you’re going to be immortalized is by your major wins yeah you know when we look back at somebody from 60 70 years ago I’m not talking people that we might have seen play you know we can only tell their performance by how many majors they’ve won so yeah it is a it is a tough one you got to go and win those MA it’s cruel isn’t it really it is very true there’s no doubt about but but again we only the only way we have a judging the next people coming up and comparisons is is is Majors how did you how do you do in the majors I know but it does get a bit ridicul I mean I always use I mean Monty’s the classic example I mean I remember when he he lost the playoff in the PGA to elkington at Riviera back in 1995 uh he lost at the first extra hole Monty hit the best the better drive of the two he hit the better second shot and then watched elington hold this long putt for a birdie and then he missed and he and he walks in and somebody says to him what went wrong it’s just ridiculous you know it’s very harsh it is very hard the only thing that’s that saves you is that it’s there’s more than you know there’s four Mages a year and you have more years so you’re hoping that yeah if it was to be if like obviously makes the game makes fools of us most of the time and if if if if we were to rely on on the worst thing that can happen to us a worst performance yeah it would be a we live for that one moment that it does go right and things are but you’re you’re 100% right there’s there’s no doubt there’s circumstantial stuff to it h I had no control over sergic Garcia’s put on the 72nd hole at Carusi yeah if it Go in all would be talking about it be me and John Vel we’d be talking about yeah to an extent yeah I know control over that fo but what I did have control over was my attitude when he missed the put so when when he’s going to hold that P I’m not I know I need him to miss for me to get in the playoff but I’m actually just focusing on the playoff so I didn’t get a big rush of adrenaline when he missed high or low and I went out to play that playoff I wasn’t happy to be in the playoff I was in the playoff there was nothing about me oh this is great I’m getting a second chance look at remember the guys that turn up in playoffs just laugh and they’re happy to be there what is that all about you know you’re you’re there win the playoff win the whole be in the moment whatever free you want but you know I’m happy to be there is is not one of them I’m here to I’m here to win that’s so that’s what I did right about Sergio’s pu but I had no control over the actual puff yeah and yeah it sounds like similar you know back in certainly in my experience of amateur golf there was a lot of guys the their sole aim was to make a team yes and then but once they got there they weren’t really concerned about winning or losing it was an odd thing but making the team was was the big deal you know thought the one for me was because we obviously had you know essentially like five months of no competition during the winter here you know uh before you get to a championship at least five months maybe six months between championships yeah and you’d have who would practice hard work really hard during that six months to get ready for the new season and then they come out to the first championship which was the west of Ireland in Ireland up up at the Easter weekend and as soon as they get there they start going out drinking and partying because they wanted the excuse if they failed they wanted to be able to say oh well I wasn’t trying they spent six months trying but when the pressure came on they needed that outlet that they if they lost after six months of practice they they consider they failed but if they had the excuse to say ah yeah but I had too many points last night you know we had a great time that’s why I lost they they just looked for an excuse I could never like why didn’t they drink for six months and then come and play series yeah I know yeah I know guys like that as well it’s it’s a funny world that it really is anyway por I want to talk to you about Bob torns I I can’t go past without bringing up Bob um I’ve said this to you before I think but when people ask me about you I I always say that you were the perfect pupil for Bob because you had you had everything that a a great player needs to win at the very highest level when you turn pro except the ability to hit the shots that you can now hit and Bob gave you that I mean Bob made you hit the ball better is that a fair assessment that he added the one ingredient that you needed yeah 100% so in 1998 played the US Open at the Olympic club and I played I got everything I could possibly get out of my golf that week and finish 27th everything there was no I didn’t there was not a shot left on the golf box and I just realized at that stage I says hang on you know this is as good as I can do there’s nothing more in my game than this I need something else what do I need and I knew it wasn’t my short game I knew it was my attitude so Bob TS every player he worked with was a ball Striker so I said this is the man everybody he has becomes a ball Striker or is a ball Striker so I went to him and and Bob it it was a match made in heaven and and I don’t just mean yes golfing wise but like Bob was like a far figure you Bob was the man you wanted to be when like he was an older man like you know so you know he must have like I supp he wasn’t he in the 60s when I started 70s you know he’s the guy he wanted to be at that age H and and just everything about it you know I was prect for him because I had the short game yeah so you know Bob would focus Bob only wanted you to chip when you were chipping back to par force that was his only so you know and we focused we I he he loved the fact that he would stand in the range and he and he still did up right up like way up I remember like he’d be there all day but I’d stand there with him so two of us I was the perfect pupil I would practice all day he would coach all day and you know this is the uh the Inver C Sports Center in L you’re talking about that was actually called the salt M right yeah that’s I remember I’m calling it yeah you know it’s funny he called it the Sal mines and yet never were the two of us happier than when we up there yeah but did they make you pick up the ball balls oh yes we both picked up all right okay but but that’s that’s something that’s missing in golf now picking up your golf balls gives you time for reflection on what you’re doing yeah I love I like I will say I don’t do it as often as I as I should but I enjoy there’s a piece to picking up your golf balls absolutely I I still do that they’re flicking the ball up and into the bag in one hand you know as you’re you know you’ve hit to whatever Target and you’re picking them all up that’s a a it’s a great time that it’s wonderful yeah it’s it’s your daydream about potential what can be you’re analyzing what’s going on you’re you’re thinking about do next it is something that and and maybe we we alluded earlier on that there’s not enough what I would call players in the game of golf because they are practicing on driving ranges if you’re practicing picking up your golf balls you know there’s a certain the Artistry comes into it you know where you hit them you know what you’re doing you b a lot more there’s more feedback so yeah I I do I pick up my own golf bus at times and it it’s it’s I hate to say this you know I used to I used to find my golf balls that I used H you know I search for golf balls it’s it brings back the same feeling when I’m picking up the balls like that or or when it kills me walking along a golf ball golf course and I see golf balls in the Shrubbery or the or the or the or the water creeks I want I actually want to go down and pick them up yeah that reminds me story The the friend of mine who was the photographer for golf dig just did a swing sequence of Michael Jordan once and he was he twacked away maybe a dozen balls and and they were done in Jordan system are you going to pick up the balls and he goes well no you can have them if you want and he he drove down in the cat and picked them up Michael Jordan you know there you go yeah I look it depends where you’re coming from really it’s not where you are yeah that’s right yeah that’s a good point but anyway talk to me more about Bob I mean I knew Bob well is but not as well as you did but um I thought he was a wonderful man I mean how how would you describe Bob to people when they ask you about him as I said he was the man you wanted to be when you were like he was older than me when you were that age he was full of joy and and just a great character to be around great entertainment and look we’re not makes makes a you know Bob was an alcoholic I didn’t work him when an alcoholic I knew him when he was an alcoholic and he was not somebody he wanted to be around when he was an alcoholic he gave up to drink for his life and for God and for June I I I assume the both of them did and it’s amazing how good a personality he was just a great funny man entertaining great to be around and just loved God golf all day golf golf golf you know you know we we go practice for you know from 9:00 on to uh you know six o’clock in the evening we’d come home we’d have dinner and we’d put the golf on and talk about golf watch golf now he wasn’t great he wasn’t a great fan if you asked too too many questions during the gulf he wasn’t a great fan of that he want yeah yeah but it was just yeah he’s just really nice person to be around great entertainment uh and and I said his passion for the game uh was I look everybody knows it was startling he lived it he loved it and and if they ever could write a book about the true stories about Bob torren you know it will never happen but to this day when you meet a fellow Bob T disciple all we do is tell stories and there’s always a new new a new story or a new even the old ones they always sound just as good when you hear them again yeah what’s your favorite one I I only allude to because we just said it there he had the a Danish kid over yeah is this the when he drugs the guy this is my favorite as well yeah he put put a br hypn so they practiced hard for two days and Madness for Bob but he he arranged for this guy to come over Wednesday Thursday of the Masters obviously the the Masters comes on on Thursday night at at 8:00 and this lad sits down and he starts asking questions during The Telecast of the golf so Bob is is perturbed about this he’s he’s done 12 hours in the range he wants to watch the golf so he comes up with an idea and he offers the the the the lad a cup of coffee and thead oh that would be great so he shouts at June go make the coffee as he would and June goes out but Bob follows him out and they decided to put a sleeping tablet into their coffee which is actually Ro Hypno this is what a sleeping tablet was back then yeah and so of course they crush it up and put it in and B is thinking that that might do it so they crush up a second one and put it in the coffee and give put two into the coffee and of course the lad drinks the coffee doesn’t know anything different but within like 30 seconds he seemingly is sitting Bol upright in the chair but completely out of it like you you can wave your hands in front of he’s sitting upright but he is like gone yeah and I think the first comment was Bob to June I think we’ve killed him and J says well should should we you know should we call the police and Bob’s gone well if he’s already he dead it doesn’t matter so we just leave him there so he he he they put him to bed anyway they obviously know he’s yeah they put him to bed and the guy wakes up the next day midafternoon yeah like he wakes up at 3:00 in the afternoon the comes in and Bob is sitting there and he apologizes to Bob leaping it out and to which Bob says you know it’s just to SE air up here in Lars and and that lad with never the wiser on his story has got out he’s only found out two or three years ago what actually happened right yeah it’s wonderful and it sums Bob up to a tea that really does he yeah he he he many Amazing Stories said that that that one is pretty that one’s fairly well out there now at this stage that H the sleeping tablet but you know there’s lots like it and and I suppose some for not some for not the Airways yeah anyway I’m inevitably por I’m going to turn to the the wrer cup before we finish up here um you’ve played in a lot of teams um both amateur and professional um what have you picked up what are the things that you’ve picked up by being part of teams over the years that you’re going to bring to bear in your captaincy later this year you know when it comes to rer cup obviously we’ve been doing very well in Europe and I wouldn’t be certainly not looking to change H the format we we kind really since Monty in 2010 really is it’s been a gathering of what works put it together and and and avoid making the mistakes that that have gone in the past uh there are a collection of of things that have happened and mistakes that you know that we now know like Mark James not playing the rookies that’s just yeah you know he took one for the team there there’s no doubt about it you know lik in the singles you know keeping your best players for the end you know these are very obvious things that you know don’t happen anymore yeah there are few others that I I personally have that I’ve picked up over the years that I would I would H I have my notes from playing different rer cups about a couple of players H and hopefully I will add a little bit more to the the mix as you know just a little bit but I’m not changing anything so there are one or two things couple of things that relevant to Rookies H yeah just a few things but I clearly I’m I’m I’m not giving away any my strategy onto it’s over and then yeah yeah there are there are definitely one or two things that I see happening in matches and things like that but you know the obvious stuff is is is you know the rookie sort of things for Mark James and and and uh and leading out you know if you got to win points you can’t keep your best players to the end of the order can you yeah is there any I mean behind the scenes is there any questions every two years about the number of points available and the number of players that have to play each time because I mean it’s seen I think as to Europe’s advantage that you’re you’re not playing everybody all the time I mean the the president’s Cup’s a bit different in that respect is there has there been any pressure that you know of to to change it I I don’t believe there’s any pressure to change it and I I can’t see Europe giving up that that that’s that’s the whole idea to write a cup you know unfortunately this is not it’s not the under eights where everybody wins a medal H you know everybody doesn’t get to play and that’s the difference with the Ryder Cup to the President’s Cup this is the the whole concept of the rer cup and the whole difficulty is is the four players who don’t play each session H if everybody played and we’d all get a little rosette saying we all competed at the end of the week and be all very happy days but it wouldn’t be the rer cup yeah it adds to the captain say that though doesn’t it I mean I think the there’s more to the captain in the rider cup than in the President’s Cup because of that well that’s that’s exactly what I’m saying this this is hardest part is managing your four players who who who are who are sitting out a session and trying to keep keep everybody ER you know focused on the One goal of of of of the team and winning and and explaining to those four guys that you know the classic you’re being you’re not being dropped you’re being rested H you know and this this is placed hugely into the European H favor there’s no doubt about it and and not based on 12 against 12 because I think Europe has has we we you know the days are gone where where Europe feels like we’re weaker players that’s not the anymore but it it definitely plays into the European team psyche that you know we can the players who aren’t playing can handle the fact that they’re not playing and that they’re they’re H you know that side of things that it’s about the team and not the individual whereas if everybody plays it does turn into your underage football where everybody yeah I mean you’ve been that assistant Captain who’s had to I’m assuming to that’s been assigned the to look after the guys who are not playing in a particular session I mean what is the the role that the Vice Captain plays in that in that instance well I I think first and foremost it starts well before the the the four guys it’s telling the four guys that they’re not how do you get that information across in a timely manner that they’re not hearing it from somewhere else which is you know happened in the past and then once they’re not playing it’s again providing them with the information for when they’re going to play next and keeping them up to date with what’s happening H I think players are all self-managed in their General golf life H and they crave quite a bit of information and what what’s happening uh you know garer the days I think H you know certainly in my first R of Cups you know I don’t think it happened to me now but but certainly in I would have said before my time players found out for the media whether they were playing or not playing more not playing so you you got to it is definitely the four players not playing is every big big a strategy as the eight players who are on the golf course and it wouldn’t be a r a cup if it wasn’t that way if H and it’s and it’s nothing to do with you know as I said Europe is good enough now maybe back 30 40 years ago we did we wanted to hide a weaker player and it was that way but not now it’s nothing to do with that it’s more to do with how do you manage your team H and it and it also gives to you which you will say it gives you the advantage of of playing to your strengths H in terms for of for ball whereas you know you it’s quite possible you could have a couple of players in your team that are just not suited to forom H and and and it’s certainly very possible that you’ll have some players that are more suited to fourball and it allows you play into those strengths and and and and it gets the team as you said rightly it gets the team and the team captain H makes it much more important how how you go about things whereas if everybody played sure sure if everybody played we just take it off the top 12 in the world rankings and you know we let one play one work away like that yeah yeah you don’t don’t need a captain or Vice Captain just let them go on yeah I mean the European teams over the last you know 25 years or whatever they’ve done a great job of um maintaining the you know the all for one kind of philosophy and we don’t hear about um you know there are there are things that have come out afterwards I mean falo’s captaincy being the sort of prime example but even then the players have never really thrown neck under the bus despite what went on but there are things that go on behind the scenes I mean that’s it’s perly natural you’ve got 12 big Egos and all etc etc but the Europeans do a great job of maintaining a united front if you like at least publicly I mean there there’s very little that I’ve heard of even in doing my job I mean I’ve heard of the odd thing but nothing major that would affect the team’s performance I think you know they do a fantastic job in that respect I I I do think the European team has a common purpose this a this a big deal for the European tour and and any player who’s come up through the European tour realize how much it means to H the rank and file of the European tour and and I don’t just mean I mean the sou Africans the Australians the Asians playing in Europe the fact that we can go and win the the rer cup gives a lot more Credence to the standing of the European tour so we we have that come purpose we would get behind it h you know you know things you know I wouldn’t have G on by Steph Sergio would have got great over the years but at the wrer cook we hold at the wrer cook you know so because of that common purpose we’re not going to let anything get in the way of that yeah H you know I I I’m not saying that you know over the years that one person can can get the Grump for a day or two or or be set with another person in the team but nothing gets in the way of where the team is going the team does have that very much common focus of this is our big chance to prove that European tour H is every bit as good as the PJ tour when it comes to golf H and it gives us that you know we’re a little bit like the country cousin and we’ve got a point proof we’ve a chip in our shoulder yeah and and it keeps us going in the right direction so so we can expect to hear you saying You’re The Underdogs again this year we have yeah we’re look look it’s a very strong us team is it the strongest team they’ve ever had close to it I would think they’re they’re on home soil H you know matter what we look at it we’re going to have definitely a reduced European contingent H you know so yeah it’s it’s to try and win away from home is is a bit of a you know you’re you’re looking for yeah it’s it it’s incredibly hard to beat the US in the US well it doesn’t happen very often that their way team wins you look at the last few results I mean Medina is the one that sticks out but other than that you know what was Medina C the miracle you’re right yeah oh look I don’t think I don’t think well I I won’t say I don’t think I think it makes a miracle for Europe to beat the US on a stereotypical Us Golf Course so if we were going to Valhalla Hazel team places like that it you know that is not where we need to be whistling traits gives us a fair crack at the whip here you know we we have you know it should be a a nice balanced golf course and H you know we’ll try and make the best of our team to to really put it up to the US and and and make them you know if they come out and play their Golf and prove it well we shake their hands on the on the Sunday and say Well done yeah how much do you uh be studying the statistics I mean this has become a big thing I mean that that was at the last President’s Cup and it was a huge thing for the international team I mean Ernie was was picking his the orders and the who played with who and and everything was statistically based I mean that seemed to me a little bit extreme but um what’s your feeling on that I’m I’m I’m I’m I’m middle ground on that so H yeah we had a lovely balance in our vice captains last time H you know it it was really interesting to see the the five ice captains I’m not going to say who or who I was going to ask you that who who’s next but you’re not going to tell me no but in the five Vice Camp last you definitely had like one who was extreme H you know really into the stat and you had another who was way out completely emotions you know forget the stats and then you had others in the center so it was quite interesting to see the different ways of doing it but I I would consider I’m in the center I I would you know I I pick a guy who’s i’ pick a guy who’s playing badly H to play a match if he was winning I’d rather see a guy win who’s playing badly than a guy playing well and losing so where where does that you know winning is a habit so if you know it’s it’s an interesting one so if you if you if you got a guy who won the morning match and he and he he played badly but won and you got another guy who played well but lost who’d you go with in the afternoon yeah that’s would always say go with the guy who played well and lost well I I would believe winning is a habit you can only win the game that’s in front of you you know you can’t you can’t be asked to win another game so playing badly and winning that’s all can you be asked any more than that yeah I’m with you I I’m kind of the same I I think it should be a mixture of the two you know yeah it has to but but that that’s that’s the the quandry exactly in that statement you know you pick a guy who’s played well but lost yeah or a guy played badly and won yeah I mean yeah my my my mind goes back to my time of playing amateur golf and I was the the victim and the beneficiary of both the the both sides of that equation if you like I I’d played well and lost and and got to play again in the afternoon and had played badly in the morning and won and got to play you know it’s it’s weird how captains look at these things yeah they didn’t have the information back then no of course not no it would have been very emotional to the result and what they saw the last couple of hes or last shots or yeah and how sorry I was going to say how about the role of the assistant captains I mean you’ve been an assistant Captain more than once um how important is that role and and how much will you lean on on your guys the the assistant Captain is very important all of them there’s the captain can’t be everywhere there’s too much going on there’s a lot of stress and H I think that is crucial for us the assistant captains and and how you go about things and definitely not from M’s you know 2014 didn’t learn a lot on that one because things went very seamless ly but darn won in 2016 for sure you know we were always trying to we were always trying to recover there we you know obviously we had the incident before it started and then H we lost heavily the first session and we were always trying to play catch up there you learned a lot ofce Captain when when when when things are going wrong you learn a lot more and I think myself and Thomas were Vice captains there and we were very well prepared in 2018 uh for those uh pinch points where you really have to make decisions under a bit of stress yeah how how important is the is the course setup I mean uh my mind goes back to France and I mean the Thomas’s picks were were sort of mildly controversial if you like when they were made and then I I as soon as I got to the golf course and how do we walk around and I went oh you know it all made sense suddenly that he matched up the players that he picked with the way he knew the course was going to be but the the Americans I was a little perplexed I mean you have to comment on this but the it did make me laugh when I was walking around and I saw Jim furick Steve Stricker Zack Johnson and uh Matt ccher all standing in a row watching guys um playing on that golf course on a course that they would have been far better suited to I mean how how important is the is the matchup of the player to the course in your mind and how important is the course setup well I I think like in a 100 years time but not soon there would be a neutral setup but it’s very hard for us to beat the US on the the likes of a Medina Bala that type of golf course where they’ll set it up very fast greens pretty open off the tea soft greens where eight or nine birdes are being made you could make it you could make eight or nine birdies and lose a match yeah it definitely Haz a team whereas in in France it’s going to be hard for you know the US to beat Europe on on a stereotypical course like France where you’ve got to fight hard for your pairs you know and if you if you can shoot one or two under par you’re probably going to win your match not eight or nine under so that’s we know that’s our advantage they know what’s their advantage uh so yeah maybe a neutral setup down the road and yes if the system wrer cup was looking for the 12 best players which always freaks me out I I like I haven’t that you know the commentators will always pundits will always go who should be picked 9 10 well 10 11 12 in my case yeah H they always working on you should pick the ninth or the 10th 11th and 12th best players and you’re going well if you were going to pick the next three best players but surely you should have just gone one to 12 in the world rankings you would pick you’re picking three players to complement the nine who qualified exactly yeah and and it may mean that you could be you could be one of the best player one of the top 12 players in Europe but unfortunately the guy in 15th is going to make a lovely forc partner for the guy who’s qualified in second place and that’s more important H and he’s going to do a job he balance up the the enthusiasm or the experience and and you wouldn’t know because if you had no rookies you would pick rookies and if you’ve got plenty of rookies you probably pick experienced guys it’s not to do with their golfing ability it’s to do with everything that goes with the pressure of being a pick the golf course and the guys who are already in the team that you’re matching up for for and for yeah I mean plus and you’re still you know it’s not an exact science we’re talking about here you’re still going to have to be adaptable and and and react to circumstances and what people are telling you I mean I think Thomas is on the Thomas is on the record from the last time about um Molinari and Fleetwood I mean they were going to play together I think and you know they were Keen to play together so he sort of went with that they got talked into it and they and was not was going to split them up or whatever and it just kept going and going and going and so you’ve got to be adaptable within within a system if you like oh of course yeah there’s lots of things going on during the rer cup and that’s that’s why saying you do need your Vice captains because what you when you when you say being adaptable you want to have the options on the table because you move one player it can affect three or four groups because you know you’ve taken him from one position and then you realize actually if you take him out of that group the guy who’s left is actually a better match with a guy who’s actually sit sitting out that session so we’re actually going to bring another guy back in it there it can affect quite a number of Partnerships just one person like you could you simply have a good player that you need to rest in terms of physically rest and it changes lots and that’s why you need the Vice Captain so that they have those options there and ready and prepared so that you’re not winging it yeah yeah yeah I I think it was Monty that had I think he admitted that he’d written down his the the team that he would like ideally months before and put it in a drawer somewhere um I’m I’m imagining that you’re not the type of guy that would do that but um what sort of formation is is there a formation forming in your mind without obviously going into detail yeah you know with a year to go I told everybody to do it on social media or whatever just for there but I didn’t do it I wouldn’t write down din I’m gonna get what I get h i there’s plenty of options we we’ve looking at already we we can see the matchups there’s not going to be a lot of Chang in my team at this stage uh you know there’s there’s nine guys in at the moment I know it’s double points so you know it’d be unlikely if one guy comes in and out of that nine so mostly people are playing to impress me and and and get the pick H I will say there is double points from now on and and like double points the last week in wentward so like they’ be close to 20 points world ranking points that week in wentward for the winner when 300 points get you into the team yeah so there somebody could make a big push but I’d be liked if they did because they’d be in good form so H I’m as I said there’s nothing better than good than current form uh so we it’s it’s up in the air but as I said I’ve only got the three picks which Narrows down what I can do when I get them which is the way I wanted it yeah yeah you know too much variety is God there’s so many options whereas you know right now I’ve probably got about six or seven experienced guys and about four rookies that you you would be looking for those picks yeah four five yeah four or five six but six yeah something like that it might be the other way around but you know unless somebody comes out of the blue outside of that H you know it’s it’s it’s reasonable for me what’s what’s ahead of me put it like that there there there’s nothing too dramatic but maybe as you said nearly every R cup somebody comes from nowwhere yeah there’s always one surprising one yeah you’re right yeah yeah and how about how much um input did the senior players get I mean you’ve been you obviously you’ve been a rookie and you’ve gone all the way through to being one of the the more experienced and certainly one of the better players in the team I mean how much input do they have with a captain how much will they have with you I should say well yeah the senior play You’re that’s another thing with the RO cou is is crucial H you know we always had that with with with Monty H you need a leader in the on the golf course and you need it leader in the locker room from the players you know you need somebody that the team will want to follow H you that was missing you you brought up 2008 that was missing definitely in in F’s team it’s a strange one you know B picked polter that week and it made polter’s right a couple career mhm and the wrer cup Europe has benefit immensely from that but that pick really should have you know Darren Clark was the one that we needed in the team room that week yeah yeah which is isn’t it amazing how you go back like it it was obviously a great pick for poter poter delivered on that week and he has delivered ever since H yes the team lacked that was our first year without am Monte and the team lacked uh somebody like that in the team room who maybe was a bit more vocal and a bit more of a of a leader in that situation yeah I mean retrospect’s always you know 2020 but I go back to 1999 and Mark James and um forget the you know not playing the rookies until the last day I think the the the the biggest mistake U that he made was not picking Langer course it was yeah Langer would have been the extra body that you guys needed that that week he could have played once a day and it would have made aug huge difference to that team you know absolutely it was you know yeah look it in hindsight it was like how he didn’t piit ler and you know I would have been very vocal at the last time I you know Ser was in the same position in 2018 and I was I was shouting as loud as I could that look you know we pick Sergio he we played in the first session Friday morning M you pick a rookie is he going play you know you’re trying to find somewhere to put it put somebody like with Sergio he would be out and Langer would have played first morning yeah and guaranteed you would have put him in the lineup and and you know you should be again you get drawn into this who should we pick you know that’s a good player or the better player who are you going to pick that’s going to play the first session Friday morning that’s that’s think of it like was a you you know that’s in the end of the day that’s what would you know if Langer was there I guarantee he would have played first morning yeah P I have one more question for you I’m aware we’ve been talking for an hour and a half now um how much pressure are you feeling um the captain you know unfairly is the the winning Captain is held as a hero and the losing Captain is Hil as a goat if you like um how much pressure are you feeling on that respect I mean it’s totally unfair ridiculous it it it does but it is a fact of life you know it does disturb me yes yeah yes no doubt about it that we we we we have seen captains win and they’ve been you know they haven’t been good captains get down and we’ve seen some you know not talking necessar our side the other way around yeah you know I can only you know it’s as suppos it’s bit like a lot of things I can only do my side of it and my thing hold my head high and and and see what comes of it h but I am very aware it’s a oneandone result speaks volumes when a captain wins the media will ask but what did he do special and people will will put two two together and find something and clearly when a captain loses the same thing whether it’s you know with we’ve seen it with with us capitals particularly and that the media will find the the media will ask the players and the players will find you know they’ll try and answer the question and they’ll have to find something and and you know put things together that even you know might or might not have been the actual root cause but you know we all looking for answers we’re all looking to I judge people in my life so you know that’s it at the end of the day if I’m watching a soccer match I’m going what what’s the coach doing playing that you know so we never really know but that’s the way life is we you know it’s entertainment and you know we all go down to the you know watch a game and we’re our mates and we’re we’re making complete comments and that’s you know all sorts of things but we do we really know no but the WR a cup it is the tough side of it that it is a one andone like if you know if you were playing 40 matches in the season you know at the end of the year you could be rightly judged because you’ve had a fair goal but one goal it it’s pretty tough to to get your head around that yeah yeah there’s a lot of variables and anyway P thank you again I always come away from our chats with two things I’m always very appreciative of the time that you make available and I always uh enjoy the the chat back and forth it’s in this has certainly been no exception thanks thanks again thanks John bye well what a mind wow what a thinker if there’s any truth to the notion that an overactive brain is a detriment to good golf then Harrington is clearly the exception that proves the rule if you enjoyed that chat and you haven’t yet done so why not check out the back catalog of episodes we’ve featured everybody from Curtis Strange and Ki Webb to the rna’s Martin Slumbers and pioneering yarara general manager Andrea Watson you can find all that by heading to the golf Australia website Golf australia.com and clicking on the podcast tab at the top of the page even better subscribe through your preferred podcast app and make sure you never miss an episode now you’re going to want to do that I think because on our next we chat with one of the game’s most gifted and most respected course Architects Bill Co I I have yet to meet anyone who’s who’s played golf who hasn’t at some point experienced the thrill of hitting one good shot it’s the hook that’s episode 44 next time on the thing about golf [Music]
