Ian Poulter’s bagman for many years Terry Mundy gives his opinions and thoughts on caddying at the highest level, and within junior golf. Broadcast on Thursday, June 20th.
hello everyone welcome to progress junior golf with live sport now and the England golf un ambassadors my name is Steve Jackson and this is Ian water house hello everybody it’s coming home it’s coming home I know it’s nothing to do with golf I don’t care I know we’ve just drawn one all sorry if you’re about to wanted to watch this a little bit later but we just drawn one all with them Mark uh but it’s not a bad result performance was terrible but don’t worry about that it’s still coming home we’re top of the group who cares about the performance so far it only matters in The Knockout stage so right now top of the group football’s coming home to get on to the golf Steve yes welcome to the foot the football podcast here we no we are gonna be talking about golf we’re gonna be talking about junior golf because this podcast is all about junior golf it’s about getting not football not football at all no well it might get mentioned again you never know particularly actually with the guest that we’ve we we’ve got um coming on because it’s someone who has got a little bit of association with with football the person who he worked with you may remember wore a football shirt for one of the tournaments which he was in which went down like a lead balloon when he did do that a few years ago but anyway now this podcast is about golf it’s about the next generation of golf it’s about getting more boys and girls playing the game of golf this is show number 606 60 can you believe that 60 absolutely unbelievable we’re doing pretty well and within those 59 shows we’ve done previously we’ve done you know lots of subjects whereby we’ve covered specifically out and out junior golf we’ve done ones which have been we’ve done ones on tour golf we’ve done ones on various other things as well this is a bit of a combination one but this is probably one of the most interesting ones which which I think will be that we’ve ever done because we’re going to be talking about cadan and we are going to touch upon cadan and Junior Golf because you know you may be surprised the fact that you can actually CAD in Jun golf some people think well you know that’s doesn’t happen well of course it does happen because you tend to have parents cading for juniors and things like that so we’ll be touching about that a bit later on but we did an expert and Ian are you an expert on caddy and have you ever caddied no I played yesterday and do you know who caded for me H you’re yes yes I have I have I have actually CED before and um I’ve also had caddies for me so I’ve done a little bit of bit of both kind of thing you know and and and it’s quite good fun I must admit you know it’s it’s quite interesting watching some good players play and and and carrying their bags for them and equally so it’s quite good when you do have a proper caddy with you kind of thing but we need to have a proper proper caddy on not just me and you know what my advice is when I do caddy yeah say caddy um every single hole get the driver at actually believe it or not that’s one one of my caddies did say that to me once he said don’t bother with an I just get a driver out I think you probably realized after three or four holes the irons are just as bad as the driver so at least if you were a driver and we do it does actually go straight we’re a bit closer to the green that was his advice to me yeah so there’s there’s method of the madness there but no right but we’ve got a proper proper proper cadd on because we’ve got one of the world’s best caddies this is the person who has caded at the biggest tournaments in the world and we’re talking the biggest as in the Open Championship the US Masters the US PGA the US Open the because we have got Terry Monday and he for many many years was the caddy for Ian poter of course fantastic record in the rder cup there he is on the left hand side with with P there um I did mention about football earlier you may remember a few years ago I haven’t got the photo of him but there was the time where Bri imp poter did wear an Arsenal shirt um I think it was one of them times where by the Arsenal shirt had a collar so he thought I can get away with this kind of thing you know and he did but there photos there to with the obviously with the rder cup and and and P has got a fantastic record with the Ryder Cup at the postman as we well know M of course so um so so yeah um so fascinating talking to him it was a prey recording interview but but we covered a lot about cadan and actually you know this this this podcast has been planned for a long time and regulars to the to the progress un golf podcast we know that we mentioned this on a few occasions of the fact that we were going to be doing a podcast on cadum but actually it’s kind of come up something this week did you watch the US Open at the weekend yeah uh yeah I mean I watched bits of it I was I had a busy week actually I at silverston on Saturday Sunday um and then of course I watched the England game and then I choose turned over to watch the last sort of nine holes or so of the US Open Paul Rory Paul Rory exactly that’s yes now this is the point actually because baby Ian Carter is the BBC golf correspondent he wrote a fascinating column so piece on the BBC website and he was talking about Rory M and he was talking about the fact that his Boyhood friend Harry Diamond has been his caddy for many years but hasn’t actually caded for him winning and it winning a major tournament in those 10 years I mean they’ve won all sorts of things world golf championships Players Championship obviously been very successful in the rider cup you know one season long titles both on both sides of the Atlantic so he’s obviously done fantastically well as his Cy there’s no doubt about that but at the same time Ian carton raed the point about whether it’s something whereby he needs to look at possibility and changing his C and bring in a more experienc C I think if I use some of the phrases which which Ian CTI said May many contend that he should have a n experienced bagman at his side someone who simply would not allow a meltdown such as the one that we witnessed in North Carolina the US Open now that might be a little bit strong but he’s got a point there in the sense of you know is the caddy help helping him perap some more experienced C might help him in those scenarios and these are the hang on Steve I know we’re g I know this has nothing to do with Juniors but it does have an effect on Juniors as as they grow up Rory maroy I like Rory by the way this isn’t a dig out Rory by the way because you know he’s achieve far more than I could ever do in the game however he’s not a rookie Rory mroy he’s not a 21 year old he’s not lvi gber who’s just you know just starting to make a name for himself and wi will make rookie mistakes and that’s forgivable this is Rory marai you know he is the he’s the PGA Tours Ambassador he is the front figure he’s the leading light for golf he has been there he’s done it he’s bought the T-shirt he’s done this he’s done that he shouldn’t need a caddy to be able to hold him together anymore now I think caddies the experience of caddies and the value of caddies is vital in junior games when you can get it and for rookies on tour as well you know up until till maybe you’ve played I don’t know 40 50 PGA Tour events then you need to be it’s an individual game is golf by and large isn’t it it’s an individual game of golf now I don’t think it matters who would have been on the bag the caddy cannot help Rory Mao if he’s going to miss aart from Two and a half feet you no and to be and to be fair it’s the same thing Ian said is is the fact that you know the caddy can’t be blamed for the two P puts the short puts he missed um during the during those last few holes or so but but but obviously he does make the point the fact that a good experienced cadby is key and we will hear from an experienced CAD so obviously we it’s interesting your point of view obviously still pre what what what Terry Mundy said because obviously he talks about how what he does with players and how we make sure that they they do the right things on the golf course and they get themselves in the right way kind of thing and then he does talk about junior golf and how important it is for that but um well can we get that Steve actually um because as over this is an interactive show so so tell us whether you agree with my opinion of it or whether you think I’m wrong I tell me if I’m wrong but I’m not a professional golfer so I don’t know I’ve never had I’ve never had a caddy so you know I’m only saying from what I look as a journalist from the outside in thinking he’s an experienced Sports person here who a caddy will always help would always benefit of course but they should be experienced enough now to be able to handle these situations so whether you think I’m right wrong let us know the comment section is open at Live support now on YouTube that’s best place to do it uh just comment in the live chat section if you do we can show your comment on screen we can see them there’s a link in the text of this broadcast it take you straight through there or you can just scan that QR code just above my finger right there scan that again it’ll take you straight through to where this is playing on YouTube if you’re not already there comment in that chat section so we can see it and we can pop it on screen and give you a shout out as well let us know your opinion and if you hear anything from Terry uh during the the the videos that we’re going to play out and want to have your say and give us something to discuss do please put them in the chat section at any point we can see them we definitely want to hear from you and if you are watching it last but now on YouTube hit that little subscribe Button as well Steve fantastic right first things first then let’s do the junior golf news though uh we’ll start up in we’ll start in Scotland um so the St Andrews links trophy um we’ got the winner got a photo of the winner it was Seb cave from Cox Moore golf club um he actually a w goer but he does represent coxall which is not Club um played on the new and the old course up at um at St Andrews shot 66 on the new course 69 on the old course then 75 on the old course and then finished with a 71 one by two shots Fantastic Field actually because he finished um ahead of Harley Smith and Callum Scott were both a couple of shots behind and I think I’m right thinking that that gets him a step closer to actually qualifying to play in the Open Championship which takes place at Royal TR they Bas it on I think on three am competitions so so well on to Seb for um for getting a little bit closer to playing the top level I think seb’s 19 years old I think his birthday was the day after he won that so that’s a happy birthday present there for that as well and obviously a lovely photo there on the uh on the bridge on the 18th hole there by the way on the 18th hole there in his second round he got a bird on the birdie on the 17th hole and that I think there’ll be a few Pros over the years who’ll settle for that on Bird on I say right the way I was striking the ball yesterday Steve Reon I might have got birdie there as well you know yes yeah I’ve I’ve heard from your Cy the fact that he’s taken all the credit for that but yeah right stay in Scotland then uh the Barry Douglas Scottish Junior Masters took place um won by broy Cunningham um from Bothwell Castle 71 7270 and I’m not sure actually whether he won on countback or whether whether he he had a playoff but he finished ahead of Aiden Lawson from brunsfield Aiden though did pick up the under 16 prize so well to Aiden for that the girls winner was Abigail May um from St regas ladies golf club 73 7277 uh Melissa K and Rosa Maguire were joint second there the girls net competition go I know you like me asking asking you a question guess a score things like that uh so Tara Simpson from Blair gy uh won over three rounds how many shots did you win by in uh uh oh god um sensible answer is like two or three but it’s never sensible so I’m going to say 11 not bad for you 13 shots you won by um so net 69 net 63 net 75 I think she might even be more than 13 shots ahead going into that final round Melissa C I’ll get one right one day you well that was that’s probably the closest you’ve ever been actually to be fair so so well done on that um another competition which took place place over in Sweden the anakah senson Invitational Was Won by Louise langra from France we’ve got a photo Louise oh yeah we do sorry you caught me off guard there absolutely and and it’s a person who has been mentioned on this podcast on a few occasions because she is a very very talented at an upcoming she’s one whereby this is a girl I look she’s already making a name for herself so it’s not one whereby we’re suddenly like saying it’s one to watch out for because this is a person who a year ago you might remember on the progress un go podcast news we told you about the fact that she became the youngest ever winner of the lates European tour access series events she also won the RNA uh under 16 amate championship in April so a girl who is in seriously good form 6969 73 she won by Two Shots from mly Molly Rim uh so welome to um to Louise um F series future Regional uh finals they now all the regional fils have have finished there was one at matford Hall one at the war year one at Brockett Hall uh the final takes place at the belfrey um the best qualifiers the the one from cumo World Park was Archie Griffith he finished in one the par wory part was Jeremy Jew on one par but the best was sunale Heath that was Jake Jeff Johnson three under par gross so well on to Jake and um staying with the pH series they’ve got a couple of events coming actually they’ve got three events coming up in the next couple of weeks and I’m going to two of them I’m going to you’re going to have to make a guess here which two out these three you think I’m going to there’s Isa perck Lavia or Sweden which of those two do you think I’m going to you’re going to two of them yes um so I’ll give you a clue at least one of them is outside this country yeah yeah definitely go to Sweden I reckon oh no no no no I think you’re going to laia I think you’ve told me you’re going to laia so I think you’re going to laia yes and I of perbeck then yes yes so um yes we are and we will be doing a progress junior golf podcast on the trip to laia so it’ be interesting to see how they develop junior golf over in country which is not by any straight of the imagination renowned for its junior golf it be fascinating to see what they do with Junior Golf as well now mentioned Jake Jeff Johnson him on the British junior golf tour just going to mention a few of the order meric leaders because there’s a lot of Junior tours out there he’s actually leading one of the aers of the British jior Golf Tour some of the other uh leaders are William lions Oliver Smith Zachary blay Hamza marfleet and Shane Cooper now I specifically want to mention Shane Cooper because he’s in the under six category and I looked at his name on the on the score sheet and it’s not down as Shane Cooper what do you think his name is down as in uh is it obvious should it be obvious no not at all obvious sure his name is is down as the showman Cooper brilliant I I just you wow I mean golf needs personalities like that absolutely so that’s that’s that’s an under six year old he’s already got his nickname when he turns Pro in years to come so so what to him he’s from shess golf club down in Kent um some of the other some of the other tours as well they’ve got a lot of different age categories so the Robert Rock junior golf tour for they’ve got 14 different categories of their order Merit the northern junior golf tour have got 202 22 different age ceg so I was going to read them out but I just thought it’s going to take us forever to try and read them all out kind of thing but you know there’s obviously some only got an hour St you got now yes that’s it absolutely yeah uh I will read out the leaders though for the junior golf Scotland though the 18 old gross leader is Sabrina a one 18 hole net is Thomas Watson the nine hole Lewis Allen and the flag competition for those who are not aware what flag competition it’s where but they play over nine holes and basically they take a fly out them how many shots they’ve had after to I think 50 shots normally when they’ve reached their 50th shot they take a flag in the ground and whoever’s gone the furthest on the goal of course they win the competition the leader of that competition is Greg mcop the shy is Junior go which is one which I’m perly involved with the 18 old gross leader is Liam greo 18 old net is Harry Thomas and the nine holes Harriet schain and just finally just want to mention as well that this weekend we’ve got an event with the CH un golf tour at coft in skeg NES it’s a team event and the winning team in that they get the coaching Clinic with Charlie Hull which we course get the podcast on this year so get Charlie on this need to get Charlie on this well we will do at some stage yes busy smoking yes yes I did see that I thought and she’s the shyest UN go t Ambassador I thought that’s probably not something which we want to promote too much so uh so um in her defense her dad was a chain smoker and still is kind of thing so I suppose it’s it’s it’s it’s in the family but anyway but Charlie is a fantastic Ambassador for the Jun go to just forget the fact that she’s had cigarettes is no that wraps up the that wraps got them one thing Steve I just want to give a bit of a shout out not really a junior anymore but somebody whose career we’ve probably both been involved with for the last um three or four years or so um of course I first broadcast her at the English under 18s she went on to win it uh and then she went on to win the son Del forams and since then she’s gone over to study at University in America and she’s absolutely ripping it up can I just say huge congratulations to lty W she is the women’s ranked number one amateur in the world now so lty w congratulations I know she’s not some sort of Junior anymore as such but we’ve followed her through the junior ranks and she’s sort of been the star name hasn’t she really Steve over the last sort of 10 years I guess from Junior ranks um moving up what a future Lotty has she’s also a big leion unit fan as well so happy days well so so there’s one good thing going forward there actually actually if you look at the the the amateur golf rankings over the years there’s been some seriously good players who’ve been number one and then gone on to have a very very success I think Lydia Co is probably the most famous you know won a couple of majes so lot is gonna follow it I I’ve had the the privilege of following around with um camera and microphone for probably 40 holes or so of a short career or so but big tournaments as well you know Sunny Del foron was an English under 18 Championship so it’s a big tournament and um she’s just like Steel in a really good way she is like steel and you know when you see plays and and they have these spells where they do really really well and then sort of drift away again she’s just constantly on it constantly and and it’s it’s been that way for five or six years so this is no flash in the pan this is set I mean everybody would already know the name lty w I tell you she’s just getting bigger and bigger and bigger great well done to that LE Leon Maguire is another filmmer world number one am as well so and not not a bad player to follow in the footsteps right that wraps up the junior golf news then let’s get them with the podcast let’s get on with our special guest and I interviewed him early this week he was the cad of Ian polter for many many years he does quite a little bit now or I think he concentrates more on carrying for Sam horfield he’s carried with with latest European tour Pros as well so he’s carried obviously you know all sorts of different levels first question I asked him though was how did he get into CAD this is what he had to say I had three three Pro tournaments a year um which I used to go and watch um and I used to drink in a pub in little brick Hill and whenever there were tournaments the players and Cades use the same Pub and I got to know him over a period of time I think I was playing off one at the time myself um and one of the caddies got a bit of a shock phone call uh I think his wife’s dad had had a car accident or something and he had to he just had to leave um so I stepped in and took over got to know a few people then took the week off work the next year and worked for somebody um and then I was in the I was in the print business and uh back then you could just leave a job on a Friday and you’d be starting again Monday so it got to a point where I thought I’m going to take six months here and uh go and see a bit of Europe and stuff and then just come back and get another print job and that was 35 years ago and I never came back just explain what a Cy does I mean that sounds a silly question but what does a caddy do well obviously you you you need to learn the golf course you need to provide a yardage you need to learn how to uh judge wind t ideally you you’re you’re trying to tell a player what a certain shot is playing how far it’s playing irrespective of the yardage or you know where you want to pitch it and why and stuff like that and that did take that did take quite a long time to learn and you make you know you you make mistakes as you go along um and a lot of them um and that’s why you’ll see you know the best players employing the most experienced caddies because they obviously have they’ve made all their mistakes and and and learned as have gone along and you know they’re benefiting from that experience um and I think that’s what most players are looking for when they’re you know hiring a professional caddy is somebody who who you know’s basically got all those experiences uh maybe used to you know the business end of tournaments a few times and stuff like that so they know they’ve got somebody who’s going to you know remain calm and and stuff when the when the pressure on um as well as obviously providing the information but generally that’s that’s what you’re doing you you you’re you you know you’re giv them a reason to hit a certain distance off certain T’s and why you need to do that and then the same into the greens you know you’re not always shooting at pins you know you’re you’re sort of playing for areas on certain holes due to you know it might be due to weather conditions or a pin placement or whatever where you say well you know on this occasion we let’s just just play that there rather than rather than being too aggressive but um yeah he getting that balance right and and trying to get around there you know in as few shots as possible that’s Terry M explaining how we first got into cadan um obviously you’ve done a lot of media coverage as well because when you’ve been covering your tournament sometimes you have spoke to the CES have you yeah a lot of the time funny enough I did the trby tour last Monday up at KCK Percy just outside York and they caddies and um usually I mean it’s a bit less pressurized of course TR be T you know it’s an amateur event you know still prizes and things up for grabs and still qualification for the Grand Final but um people are a bit little bit more cheery and happy to talk and of course when we’ve done a lot of Junior event Steve certainly F series days a lot of the caddies were parents weren’t they so um they’re always usually quite happy to have a little chat but it’s interesting how we got involved I just I just think things have changed now haven’t they I can’t imagine you know just go down down everybody drinks down at the same Pub and and so I just got into it that way you know I mean I was I was decent at golf and I was just down a pub one day it just locked into it really which is not you know good on Terry by the way because he knows his stuff and like I said he was he was off one himself so he knew his way around a golf course like I couldn’t be a professional caddy because I’m not good enough at golf do you know what I mean who am I to give advice to somebody who’s a better golfer than me so I I think that’s I think things have changed a little bit and I actually think caddying is probably it’s more of a um it’s perhaps more of a career than maybe it used to be as well I don’t know if you maybe agree with that yeah well Terry mentioned as much there right well we actually one of the next questions I asked Terry was we will delve a lot more deeper into this then what actually does a Celly do what’s what what’s a typical tournament day then what what does it involve this is what he had to say get there if we had a noon teach about three two and a half three hours before um the tea time and I would um I’d get a pin sheet we were always provided with a pin sheet for the day with a with a pin locations um and I would sit and go through the book for half an hour with a cup of coffee or something like that and and plan out you know what pins are accessible and what ones are you know maybe to be steered clear of or where you want to be on those particular holes um so so I would do that um get a bit of breakfast or whatever and then normally meet the player somewhere in a region of an hour to an hour and a half before the tea time where they go through a you know Hill have already done a you know a sort of a proper warmup whether it be a gym session or a session with band in the locker room or whatever to get to get everything moving um and essentially you’re just going out on the course on the on the Range just to hit a few balls you know get yourself ready for the day and then head out on the golf course and um and hopefully you know get off to the start of a good round but um yeah I think a lot of people see a tea time at you know 8:10 and think that we arrive about 7:30 but no that’s not the case if you’ve got an 810 tea time we’ll all be there by 6:00 in the morning at the very latest now I I asked the question there what would you do on the day but of course and you you alluded to it there is the fact that you’re looking at Pin positions you’re already thinking about where would you would aim for flags and that so that doesn’t start on the day does it that starts when does that start when does that process of of looking at a tournament and looking at what you want to do in that tournament when does that start well that will start on a Monday and Tuesday when you arrive normally I’d like to walk the 18 holes on my own without without the player at all um especially on a course that I’m not familiar with um and yeah look for you know the wide areas off a te um the safest areas whether you can it whether a holds driver or not you know can we carry this bunker do we need to be short of that bunker you know whatever it might be from the te um check off a few yardages normally do that um make sure that’s all good then get up to the green and start to just look around the green and what’s there you know is there water left is there a is there a bunker there and if so is that bunker okay to be in or is that a particularly difficult bunker shot it might be that you know to a front right pin that Bunker’s absolutely fine to be in but to a back left pin it’s a desperately difficult shot so you you know you take those sort of notes well if the pin’s back there I’m going to get him to go right of this pin because if we catch that bunker that’s a you know it’s landing on a down slope it’s going it can’t stop it it’s over in the rough or whatever it might be um and it’s that’s the sort of information that you know you wouldn’t be telling a player while you’re playing oh make sure you don’t go in that bunker it’s desperately difficult or anything like that but what you would say is you know we we need to be right at this pin we don’t really need to go at this pin you know four five four yards right at the pin that’s a perfect spot and we put across from there so you sort of I guess you’re thinking negatively but trying to deliver a positive way of uh actually playing the H you know you won’t see Cades standing on T and all be careful it’s out of bounds down the left and then there’s what you know you frighten the life out of a player you you know we know where the trouble is but you tell them where you do want to be and also you you mentioned there about the you you walk a course and you look at a course and you try and look at spots but also you you don’t necessarily walk the course from te to green sometimes you walk backwards don’t you and and work your way backwards from a hole how how important is that um I don’t think it once you know what you’re doing it doesn’t really matter but sometimes the benefit of walking it walking it backwards is you you know you’ll start let’s say at the 18th green and then you’ll just walk back to a spot where you think well if my ball was here this is perfect this spot’s perfect and then you would you know get the yardage from the te to that spot so you know if you’ve got a player that hits it 300 yards but that spot’s 275 and you know there’s no reason to go down another 25 yards because in fact it it could make the shot more difficult being closer um you would just take those notes do you know what I mean and you can sometimes see it a little bit clearer from when you’re looking at the shot that you want for your second shot rather than looking at the T and where you know where you want that to that that can sometimes be more difficult than just knowing no if we if we just did it you know 275 yards at you know the roof of that building out there because we I’ll always lay something down in the Fairway that points at the te um and then go around the other side take a look at it to get a line off the te um and yeah you know you’ll say if you edit 275 right at that that’s going to leave you you know 80 front um and wherever the pin is that’s that’s a nice yarded so you know that’ be your note on that hole and then obviously you just you know you do that 18 times so that’s Terry talking about not necessarily looking at a golf course from T to Green but also sometimes walking backwards I mean these are things obviously this is a junior podcast and you’d hope the juniors are watching this and going actually that’s something i’ never even considered they’ be amateur top amateur golfers who wouldn’t even thought of it that way wasn’t that and what I like best there Steve when he said the cad actually looks at the negative but never delivers it that way to the player you know the caddy is the one who’s allowed to be like go we don’t want to go there we don’t want to do this what not to do so you almost take that stress away from the player and then you say to the player right I know what’s bad here’s what’s good and here’s what you’re going to do so you get rid of all that negative energy away from him to suddenly think okay here’s what we’re going to do and it’s almost like we know there true left and right so forget about that you know we’re not even looking at we’re not even concerning ourselves with that we know where we’re going to go and and players aren’t stupid you know like Roy maer be stood on the te and he’ll know where out of bounds is but it won’t even feature on his radar will it but if a caddy were to go up to him and say oh don’t hit it left because you know out of bounds suddenly it would feature on his radar a little bit and what wasn’t there a minute ago suddenly is there and even though it’s miles away and he’s good enough to avoid it by A Million Miles Away 2% of Doubt might have just crept in which could be the difference can it and that’s what you need from an experienced caddy and it’s point I I raised to Terry when I was talking about in particular someone like the US Masters mentioned he’s been there with Ian polter how important it is because I the point I I raised with Terry was that I said there aren’t too many rookies who do very well at the the US Masters you mentioned um abber this year who do very well on his on his debut but that doesn’t happen too often this is what he had to say on that point in particular about using an experienced Cy at austa in particular I think the reason that probably happens at Augusta is the severity of the greens there and even though you can tell somebody you know this pup’s really quick or this pup breaks three times as much as you think it does and this that and the other I think the reason you don’t see the rookies I think that’s changing a little bit but the reason in the past you haven’t seen the rookies do so well is that that sort of side of it is down to the player you know th the players need to once they’ve been there two or three years and they’ve been in certain spots on those greens I mean it is unbelievable sometimes how soft you need to hit a putt or how much break you need to hit on a certain Putt and um sometimes you can’t do that all in one or two practice rounds you know you the benefit the experience of the Cades really on on that is is you know the guys that have been there a lot they really know not so much where you want to hit it they know where where you don’t miss it you know there’s certain areas on that Golf Course where if you miss it there you are it’s an auto bogy you know it’s very very difficult to get up and down from so I think that on a course like that you know the the caddy experience is more about look we need to be here not here this is this is why and but those greens they need to be learned they need to be learned by the players and that sometimes they get it very quickly and sometimes it’ll take a player you know two or three two or three times until he’s got a good handle on them greens it’s the course off the tea at Augusta is not not too difficult it’s it’s it’s a second Shot Golf Course is where you need to be strong to do well there and let’s let’s flip it the other way around what about when you’re turn up at the golf course whereby you and your player never played before perhaps it’s a tournament where by no one has really ever played there before in the sense of it’s it’s completely new venue how do you look at that um like I said before I would go out walk 18 holes I would come in um on say a Monday we would go out there on a Tuesday um I would tell him what I’ve seen um we would play a practice round and then you know I would like to think for the most part a player would be in agreement but now and again they’ll say no I really no I don’t quite like it in here I’d rather get it down there and take my chance off the te to make the second shot easier or um and you know in between you you could have perhaps agreed to change that that that game plan a little bit but yeah all you can do is learn how how that Golf Course should be played and and let’s be honest it gets played different from different players you know if you’re working for somebody that can carry the ball 330 yards you’ve got totally different lines and clubs off te’s than than a play that it’s you know 290 um it’s a different Golf Course essentially so you know you you you see a course through you know that player that that player’s particular yardages or such shot shape sometimes you know some players predominantly draw it some predominantly fade it and you will see a course very differently uh than others so you can only come up with your game plan um and then normally what you would do is stick to that game plan for a Thursday and Friday and see where it see where it you know where you’re sitting where it lies and um maybe change it at the weekend if you feel that you know perhaps you’re you know sitting a bit further back line 30th or something like that and you go okay time to take some chances at the weekend we’ll we’ll get a bit bit more aggressive maybe a few more drivers off te where we didn’t and take some chances to leave shorter isons to make more birdies to try and you know get up the leaderboard but um generally those first two days you will come up with a game plan and try and stick to that what about what about the form of a player because I mean you’ve worked with lots of different players and you’ve worked with the LI of and poter obviously at the very top of the game youve work with players you know challenge to level you L these European tour players so you’ve worked with different players and how much do you look at form and go actually at this present moment in time you have to little bit you have to be a little bit more you know uh careful on some holes or something like that whereby if you know a player’s in form you know they player well you can go o let’s go with a little bit more of attacking game plan for you yeah if a player’s in formed you definitely tend to play a bit more aggressively um and a player will know when they’re out of form that look I’m I’m quite haven’t quite got it at the minute so let’s try and get this you know let’s try and get this round in as few shots as possible perhaps not take so many chances and on on those occasions they’ll just continue to work until they do find it so they’ll get in off the course go straight back to the range um you know and keep working until they go okay I’ve got this now you know I am in form you know play play and practice their way into form um but yeah you got to be a bit sensible if if you’re out of form both player and KY would know um you know the certain dangers um normally if you’re out of form it’s because there’s one particular Miss that’s coming a lot so you would you would certainly guard against that on certain holes if if that particular Miss put you in a lot of trouble you know I mean why take the chance if it’s not you know it’s a bit silly is it you’re bringing big numbers into play and essentially what work what we’re trying to do is keep the big numers off of scorecards it’s fascinating isn’t it hear hearing from him and how he has to deal with players who hit the wall different ways different distances players who are in form out of form I mean that that relationship is is crucial isn’t it yeah it’s it’s actually it’s a very good point to make as well isn’t it because it is it’s a different course you know I I played yesterday I just played with me old man and and a friend of his and off the first t I hit Nice Shot actually it was Ju Just it was on The Fairway but it was to the right hand side and M dad hit it left into the rough so I’m on the right just on The Fairway he’s on the left in the rough close to some trees it’s a completely different course I you know we’re looking at different areas completely different it’s not like um you know football pitch is a football pitch the goal stays where it is and and you have your position and you’re roughly always in that position or Motorsport you know everybody’s basically trying to hit the Apex which is always the same point so you’re always roughly going to be there the golf course you could be there could be 50 60 yards between players it’s a huge gap and it completely transforms the way that you you play it and you know it got me thinking when he was sort of talking about espe certainly austa and and relationships with players and just thinking because it’s a shame he’s not here live because I’d love to sort of ask him some of the difficult questions in a sense of be honest with us you know like I believe maroy CAD is coming for a bit of stick because we already missed those parts and it’s like how responsible can he be for that you know could he have put his arm around and could he have just calmed it down slowed them down before doing it or whatever I don’t know but equally think from the caddy side of things as well we all think oh it’s terrible for Rory it’s terrible for Rory the caddy gets paid a down site less than Rory so Rory missing those two okay it’s probably cost him about 100 Grand though hasn’t it do you know mean Rory the player missing those two puts has cost his caddy 100,000 they work together they’re a team of course however it’s a unique sort of team in a sense of if if we are a team but you get paid 90% And I only get paid 10% but we both still have to basically walk the course together and my responsibility is is 30% and your responsibility 70% you’ve got to play all the shots there’s a disparity there isn’t there between what I’m getting paid for what I’m contributed to you do they get frustrated with the player as well because we know players get annoyed with caddies we’ve seen it numerous times AR with numerous players who’ve turned around and had a go at their caddy when actually has a caddy actually got a right to be like how the hell did you miss that do you know what I mean like you’ve just cost me thousands of dollars because because you miss that part you shouldn’t be missing that you know I’ve set you up perfectly and you’ve missed it yeah right let’s let’s talk about that caddy player relationship that actually just before we go on to talk about the K relationship as far as this podcast is concerned I get I get paid 90% And you get paid 10% don’t that’s the that’s the grp yeah that’s how it works zero yeah 90% is zero and you get 10% to zero anyway that’s another story right Cy player relationship then this is what Terry had to say about how important it is to have a really good relationship with your player can be developed but I think you tend to know pretty quickly when you work with someone new if you’re going to get on with them from a um a personality aspect you know you you you you know you’ve got to like each other you’ve got to get on at the end of the day you’re spending a lot of time out there so um you know you could you could it could be a very good player and a very good caddy but if if if personality wise they just don’t quite get on then that may be a reason that particular relationship you know doesn’t work um so yeah I think you got to I think you got to like each other’s company I think that helps um because most of the time on the golf course you’re not talking about golf you know you’ll only talk about golf um a few seconds before you know well basically when the pre-shot routine starts when you start to get it yarded you might be talking about football you might be you know pretty much talking about anything but golf from from walking off the tea to get into the ball um so yeah you got to enjoy each other’s company um and that that sort of takes your mind away or takes the players mind away a bit from you know just too much golf golf golf golf they don’t really want that they you know that they live eat and breathe that so they’d be I would imagine looking for a um you know some different conversation so yeah you’ve got to you’ve got to get along but then obviously once once you do get to the boy it’s all about the golf and the serious stuff starts and you know between the two of you you you agree on you know what a certain what a certain yardage is playing and where you want to pitch it and and you know you select the club that goes that far and hopefully you’re getting it right most of the time that’s the this was the part of the interview whereby when that is it starts become really relevant for junior golf because I’ve watched a lot of junior golf you’ve watched a lot of junior golf we’ve seen parents caddies the bit where he said we don’t talk about golf until we get to the ball that’s the bit whereby I see that on a golf course whereby from the moment they’ve hit the T-shirt the kid to the time they get the ball the Dad or Mom or parent or caddy or whatever is going in their head you shouldn’t be doing this you should be doing that kind of thing whereby that was the bit where I went spot on they don’t do they they just don’t talk they talk about you know I mentioned earlier about P being a big Arsenal fan I think Terry might be an Arsenal fan as well I’m guessing that’s probably what they talk about probably much more 90% of the time when they’re on the golf course but it probably helps you play better doesn’t it and this is where I think sometimes perhaps parents don’t necessarily make particularly good carries and not intentionally you know you would never do it intentionally of course but you know I’m a father myself and if I was going around I would want my son to hit the best shot that he possibly could if you didn’t hit it I feel that I would probably then say well do you know what you did wrong there and that wouldn’t be the right thing to do at all would it because it it would just we and Terry said it I think in the second video didn’t he where he said it’s my job to look at all the negatives and it’s my job to be worst case scenario but then it’s my job to deliver to the player all the positives do you know I mean so he’s like the sponge for the negativity so it doesn’t then go to the player whereas I think when parents are caddies for juniors it’s very easy to be like oh you didn’t quite hit that as well as you could so next time this is what you get when actually what you need to do it’s like right okay we’re in this position this is where we are excellent stuff let’s just walk to the ball let’s just chill out you know have a nice little walk you know go it’s nice weather today isn’t it get to the ball right how are we going to play this and forget it because if a Junior’s hit a bad shot or any of us we know last thing we need is somebody going what you know do you know he did wrong there because all you want you know what it’s like when somebody tell it’s like I know I did wrong I don’t need telling you know yeah I I get it but maybe when we get to the next T we could then say right we remember what happened before Let’s uh let’s make sure we make this one a clean one and just go from there right we are going to talk a lot more with with Terry about junior golf in particular and caddy and but just finally though because he did start talking about there obviously the caddy comes into his own when they get the ball so this is what they actually have to do and this this is really what a c does and this is how and this is fascinating it’s a long answer this but I asked him about what a caddy actually does when they get to the golf ball this is what he had to say so you arrive at the golf ball I would go off and get the yardage so I would Pace from the ball to a certain distance that I know the front of the green is so there maybe say a a sprinkler down there that’s one 50 front I’m 11 behind it so I come back you got 161 front pins on 20 one 181 to the pin then you discuss where you want to actually pitch that golf ball it might be 181 pin but you know if the greams are firm and it’s a bit downwind you’d probably be looking to pitch that maybe 65 70 if it’s soft and a bit into the wind you’d be flying that all the way to 81 so straight away there’s a sort of 15 16 yard difference in in where you’re Landing it you know right there um so you agree on where you want to pitch it then you look at the wind and and decide how what that number’s actually playing so you know you might have 181 Pinn but the green let’s say slopes away a little bit or when the ball lands it’s going to release uh um and then you had a bit of downwind in there so you might say well I only want to land this 168 um and there’s 12 a help so that’s playing 156 so you might have 181 pin but you’re hitting a 156 shot but it ends up going 181 or or maybe close to it it maybe that you want to be just under the pin you know so I pit this at 68 stop it at you know 78 three yard short of a back pin um and that 68 is playing you know you’ve worked out it’s playing 56 what do I at 156 oh that’s my n iron um you you hit the N iron and hopefully it pitches somewhere near the 56 and you get the release you or whatever it is you know and yeah you you sort of learn you know you do all this in the practice r really um and you will know that you know this green releases more than this green this this green is higher and it’s firmer this Green’s right down in the low area and it’s shaded by all these trees so it’s a lot softer um and these are all the little notes you make you know so that come Thursday um you know what the ball’s going to do within reason on on on the greens I mean it’s that one answer there you get a lot of technical information there and and like you say you do a lot of in in the practice round so so when you get there but how important is it to not make it too technical for the player in the sense of trying to simplify to the whereby you got you do all that in your brain and then you go I think it’s 175 or you given the a couple of options hopefully what yeah hopefully what I just explained I would hope to a professional golfer anyway is actually quite quite simple you know it’s it’s 181 pin we want to pitch it 68 there’s some help off the right so that 68 is playing 56 um and you need to start this you know three or four yards right at the PIN for that win so land it 156 and then if you’re telling that to a player they straight away start thinking okay I want to it a and players know you know at that level they know out it a 156 shot but if they if they hit what they think is a 156 shot and it actually pitches 150 or 162 they’ll be quick to let you know you got that wrong you know I suppose that and and and that’s a bit where by the communication that they they’re getting on with each other the trust I suppose that’s the key part isn’t it trust the fact that they trust you and vice vers they need to trust you but they also you know that it’s in their interest to be honest too because if they start telling you well no I get that 99 good and it only pitch 150 um instead of 156 then you know you could be on the next hole and make another mistake because you know in fact that 99 wasn’t absolutely flushed perfectly and you know so it does help if you got a player that will say to here listen I didn’t quite catch that one that I could have got a few more out of that you go okay we were right then you know the the 56 was about right so that is about 12 a wind and then the next hole may be in the same direction and you know that you’re you’re 12 wind was about right whereas if he says to you look I really did I flush that and it’s only gone 150 you can say well there’s not that much win then so perhaps we were five perhaps we were five out with a win there and if the next hole is in the same direction instead of saying 12 your it’s about probably about seven then do you see what I mean so you’re sort of learning uh you know you’re learning sometimes even it might even be that you’re as deep as Saturday into a tournament and you’ve got a certain win that you haven’t had all week and those first few holes you are judging you know how strong is that and what exact direction is that from um and that yeah that might take you two three holes until you got a handle on that and the the communication we we mentioned there about you know sometimes sometimes you get it wrong sometimes the the you know you might be slightly out with the arge and they’ll come back to you and say you know that was wrong you got it wrong kind of thing how important then is it to to calm the player down if that is the case because they’re angry and and and obviously an angry golf is not going to do any good for you or or the player as they’re going around how how important is it for you as the Kelly to be the person who can calm them down yeah of course that’s you know you’re you’re you’re playing a few roles out there aren’t you your your psychologist come caddy come coach come everything at times um on a golf course because once you know once it all starts at the end of the day there is only the two of you out there so you know you yeah you’ve got to you’ve got to communicate well with each other and you know it’s important that like I said you put your hand up and go listen yeah I’ve I’ve misjudged that wind or I thought that would release and it didn’t got that wrong you know come on there’s a favor let’s make a solid par you know two part this for us and let’s get on the next you know and you you just keep it yeah you keep it um you try and keep it simple and don’t you don’t want to be out there nobody wants to be out there runting and raving there’s not much good golf comes when that’s happening so that’s Terry Monday talking I I just love that in the detail he goes into when he’s talking to the players the relationship he needs to have the communication the bit where he said I’m I’m I’m a coach out there I’m a psychologist I’m a caddy you know what was your take on that it’s so much more caddying isn’t it than just carrying a bag really you know to to the outside looking in if you don’t really know golf you just think well Caddy’s just somebody who Els the bag because the purse the golfer can’t be bothered do you know what I mean but but it’s it’s really not and and that’s really actually insulting to cadd isn’t it because um Terry and Caddy’s they really really do know their stuff and I I wonder I’d like to sort of talk to a player somebody like Charlie Hall would be great to talk to um you know somebody and Chris Hansen actually would be good we get him on um and find out how much do they actually rely on their cadic and the knowledge that they bring not just of the course but of the game as well because you know I am sure that the player does a lot of their own research too but CAD also goes to the next level they also get paid if if the player makes the cut so there’s there’s an income to be made as well but how much does the player rely on their caddy I bet there’s been some golfers out there like you know old John daes who probably do no work beforehand whatsoever and just turn up which just like I leave it to my caddy and you know tell me where to go because you know golf for me is right first T if it’s if it’s a par four par five it’s driver every time there’s the flag just hit it that way um but for these Pros it’s it’s so different it’s such it’s almost a different game isn’t it the research and the time and the effort that goes into it is is quite remarkable and um yeah it’s it’s a bit of an art form to be honest isn’t it being a caddy I think it’s it’s very much it’s like a team in in Motorsport when it comes the pit stops you know you often hear the the driver says well it’s it’s it’s the team you know it’s not just me it’s it’s all about the team as well and actually it’s really true because um I sometimes thinking what they should do in Formula One is the driver should have to then get out and do do the wheels and you know sit at a pump refueling it and then go into the kiosk and pay for it on a card and then come out and get back in as quick as I can but um sometimes and it’s might be a little bit controversial this Steve but sometimes before listen listening to Terry by the way and this isn’t um this is just listening to the knowledge in the depth that he has but I’ve sometimes often thought that perhaps Pro Golf shouldn’t have caddies and it should squarely be solely on the player uh maybe a caddy could you know they could have somebody to hold a bag because as we know that the benefits of you know the the negativity physically of carrying a bag around a golf course is is you know not not particular we’ll give him a trolley we’ll let him push a trolley yeah give him a trolley or something but I’ve thought oh maybe maybe they should do with Cates and make it solely about the player but then when you listen to Terry and the numbers the mathematics the the judging that the wins the directions that the knowledge that you have to have actually it’s quite a lot for a player to then to have to have all of that and then go play the shot as well it’s it’s opened my eyes a little bit actually now obviously Terry Munday is one of the best CES in the world he’s Cy for some of the best players in the world this is a junior golf podcast now the reason why I wanted to get ter on well because not only that but he’s also a dad and he’s a dad of a junior goer a 12-year-old girl goer as well so I wanted to talk to him about junior golf and his daughter and also Junior tours and the use of CES as well as well this is what he had to say about being a parent of a golf and and how he’s helped his daughter’s golf fascinating this letting her trying to get her course management a little bit better and when to take certain shots and of course it’s very different from a you know what a 12 yearold golfer that plays off you know 20 handicap would take on as opposed to a professional so it’s a it’s a sort of different set of rules um but you know trying to help again keeping big numbers off off of the scorecard and playing playing the shot that you know she’s capable of rather than the one that she’s seen on TV um so I’ve tried to help her a little bit with her course management but I’ve also tried and so is my wife who was a professional golfer we’ve tried to sort of stay away a lot as well you know she gets coaching from um the the head pro at my club so we don’t get involved with you know how she’s swinging the golf club or what she’s doing because um you know experience has shown us that that that doesn’t work um in fact the the opposite is true you know it’s uh that’s to your detriment it just whether it’s that children don’t really want to listen to the parents you know you can say the same thing to her as a coach would she’s just more likely to listen to the coach than she is Mom and Dad on on on those certain things but um she knows her mom’s been a professional golfer she knows her dad a professional caddy so she does she does use she does use us now and again um and she will listen but for the most part we like to just send her out have fun enjoy the game you know but remember this little set of you know little set of rules here or remember you know what I told you about that shot you know why don’t you do it like that safer it’s it’s easier or whatever it might be um so she takes those things on board but um generally I like to just walk around and watch and stay out the way and how easy is it to do that though there’s there’s there’s the there’s the diff difficult oh god there are times when you think oh my go what are you doing but uh you know I think it’s important to let them make the mistakes and and then you come in and we’ll have a chat about and when she gets in you know you know I might say let’s trying to think of a you know maybe there’s a hole over water and it’s um 160 yards over water um and she’s tried to hit a say a rescue club over the water and it might be a hole where she’s got a shot on and all that and she’ll hit you know and I’ll say to her you know what why did you take that on because that was your very best you know utility Club to get over the water any Miss was going to bring a big number into play but you had the opportunity where you could have gone you know short of the water on the green two putts take your you know bogey net par or par net birdie whatever it might have been and move on but you know at the same time I wanted to um I do want to take certain stuff on in certain situations as well because ultimately if you’re going to end up um playing the game for a living um you are going to have to take you know stand up and hit some shots and but even Pros won’t take you know if if a pro if you’re playing a par five and a pro hits a three-wood let’s say 260 yards 270 yards well 260 let’s say they hit 260 if you said to a pro you got 258 over the water he’s not going to hit it because he knows he could miss it by two yards and that goes in the water and then he’s got to take a drop now he’s bringing seven into play he’ll lay up and leave himself for wedge you know there’s a c it’s normally I would say it’s probably around it’s probably around 12 15 yard misses that at the very top level you allow for you know so if they’re doing that at the very top level they’re allowing themselves to you know well if if I do miss it or or maybe there’s a you know if I catch a gust of wind if that just scuss a little bit this is struggling they will refuse it lay it up and give themselves a chance the other way whereas um so that’s the sort of thing I’m talking about is just trying to you know get the management right on what’s aggressive and what’s actually a bit silly brilliant isn’t it what he says about what he does with his daughter this is this is a guy who knows his golf knows how to go around a golf course but at the same time and he and he admits it’s not easy but he can take a step back you know and that the kind of thing whereby it’s if he can do it you know me and you who who know next to nothing about golf when we take our son and daughter out on the golf course we’ve got no right to turn around to them and say you should be hitting this shot and things like that because you know we don’t know actually maybe it’s easier though for Terry who’s who’s CED at the very top with the very best and who’s also a very good golfer as well because he probably he sees players of an elite quality up close and personal regularly so he probably looks at his daughter and thinks you need to make mistakes in order to be better and you need to learn the course will help you to an extent but if I basically tell you where to go and what to do and what shots play and how to play I’m not really helping you do do you know what I mean like he said it there as well didn’t he it’s like you know if you want to be a player you want to be a professional player you’re going to have to take risks you’re going to have to play some good shots if you want to make it to the very top so you’re going to have to sometimes get out your comfort zone I did like what he was saying about um you know hit the 3 with 260 for example and it’s 258 just over the water so the pr won’t go for it and I was having a giggle to myself because I’m very much I would go for it and and I know it’s the wrong thing to do but I’m thinking yeah if I hit this bang on I’m over I’m going for it now realistically the chances of me hitting it bang on at my level of golf is probably probably I’d say 65% chance of me hitting it flush every single time do do you know what I mean like there’s maybe maybe yeah but I’m I’m laying I’m going in front of the ball and I’m thinking right for me to hit this the best that I can hit it and you do it at a range don’t you you know you’ll do it at a range seven out of 10 times when you’re out in the course it’s probably more like 60% maybe even less actually to be fa when you’re on a course closer to 6% there you go car on there’s a big chance of me getting it wrong but I’m still going to do it and I know that I’m probably and actually when I say 65% you’re probably right it’s probably more like 35% on the course isn’t it I’ve probably got a 70% chance of nailing it on the driving range 35% chance on a course but I’m still going to do it and I’ll get it wrong six out of 10 times but the four times I get it right oh my God I’m the greatest golfer in the world the other six times I got go pick my ball out of the water but yes yes and brings as Terry mentioned there bring for seven into play if it’s a par five or whatever but no fascinating him talking about how he deals with his daughter then now one of the things which which we mentioned right away from the start is there are some Junior tours out there which do have CAD in so I ought to mention those so the sh junior golf tour they’ve introduced it this year the British junior golf tour do it I think the US kids have done it the F series might do it lower levels not quite so much with the elite level because obviously they’re in theory they should be good enough to go out there you’ve done the England in in under 18 championship and they have policies not just England but national championships whereby as far as Spectators are concerned you’re not allowed within 30 yards of them you know that so it’s from one extreme to the other where by you know you can get if if you you don’t have cadin on that level so it’s it’s you know different to a prize getting a a leg up well possibly yeah you know and and I know I know of amtis and you will do as well I know of am who’ve got through to let’s say Open Championship qualifying and they’re up against you know they almost have to bring their m to to CAD for them well with as as we’ve alluded to earlier actually it might be helpful because they can have a chat with them about you know what what you doing down the pub later or whatever you know did you watch the football last night whereas the pros caddy might not be doing that type of thing so it might actually help them in that instance but but yeah you might you might have a point there in the sense that the amateurs have a disadvantage to the to the pros right just finally though the this is what I mentioned to Terry about C’s being allowed at Junior events this is the advice that he had for any one who is cing for junior gol for at these competitions that’s see I’ve only got six videos I I don’t have another one mate okay well his ADV okay that’s all right well his advice was basically don’t get involved and which is pretty much what he alluded to early in the center just stand back try not to get too involved and basically just let them hit the shots and things like that perhaps if we play this on suay we might find the video and might actually play it kind of thing but but um but no I me got you only sent me six you only sent me six okay all right fair enough I promise Terry you did you did give some advice well actually we’ll we’ll put that on the progress Junior Golf website so if anyone wants any advice we’ll put it on social media as well send it to me we’ll put absolutely yes but um but yeah no I’m lot fascinating talking to to Terry and and and his experience of being a cad at the highest level and also his advice about what he’s does with with with Junior golfers at a at you know at a different level and and um yeah look I I hope you enjoyed the podcast this evening we have got some more podcasts coming up uh we mentioned earlier uh probably going to be doing one on laa or or International Golf we’ve done those types of things before we’re doing one on facilities as well at golf course which I think will be interesting because you know it’s all one go talking about you know playing on a golf course but you need to have the right facility to to get the Juniors to enjoy you know I don’t know what’s what’s the hardest Golf Course you’ve ever played on uh probably the red course and barkshire was quite tough for my level yes yeah yeah actually I played on that golf course and my two playing Partners both had an eagle on one hole oh really I didn’t what I I had a seven so my score was twice there combined there you go so um but yeah um but yeah so we we’re doing one facilities we’re going to do on on rules quiz as well we did the rules quiz previously now something which is which I won’t go into details now we’ll actually cover it in more detail when we get round to it but things have cropped up in recent weeks whereby I’ve been involved in events whereby cheating has been mentioned in junior golf and it’s something whereby you know we want to keep the the rules one a little bit lighthearted but at the same time it’s a subject which we do need to talk about because obviously it’s something whereby you know and and in one instance whereby it probably was cheating fact there’s no probity about it it was out and out cheating and then the other occasion it was one whereby just kids getting the wrong you know inadvertently whereby but they could have got accused of cheating you know and it’s one whereby trying to avoid those scenarios you know and bringing the rules doing a bit of the quiz about that will hopefully help but at the same time it’s something which obviously we do need to go into a little bit more details and we’re probably going to do one sponsorship and one on junior golf clothing as well but there lots more to come over the weeks and months ahead we’ve not quite broken aon’s record for the longest podcast we’ve ever had but we’ve managed to go more than our more than our 60 Minutes say good luck to Aaron as well he I saw him last Monday he was he joined me at York um for the try talk so go back and watch that uh it’s really good we’ve got Springs coming up as well on the Monday 15th of July but we’ll have another episode of this before that anyway but he is doing open qualifying so best of luck Al absolutely yes best luck with that right and don’t forget if you want a caddy I there if you need a need a caddy to caddy for you just go for it pull out driver go for it yes don’t use don’t use I as a caddy he might learned a little bit in this podcast but I still wouldn’t use him as a c right hope you’ve enjoyed the the show this evening we shall see you very shortly on the progress un golf podcast have a good evening byebye everybody thank you for watching
