Deep dive with tour coach and Golf Magazine Top 100 Teacher Jeff Smith as he explains how he has used Sportsbox 3DGolf to help his players succeed and win on tour
0:00: Teaser from the Webinar (Davis Riley “before” swing diagnosis)
1:40-2:50: Jeff’s reflections from 2024 US Open and Pinehurst
2:51-6:45: Introduction notes
7:00-32:40: Davis Riley Case Study
32:41-51:20: Max Greyserman Case Study
51:21-End: Q&A
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oh wow I I see the PS pushing forward early but you really can’t quantify like how much that’s happening and so in his own way of trying to solve this over over several months before he came back to me was he always tried to work on his hands and arms so he would always try to get the club maybe a little bit more out in front of his hands going back to not be in that spot at the top and but the problem is it that wasn’t the root cause there was a there was an underlying thing and then with the help of you know Sports boock all right welcome everybody to to a very special Sports box webinar with h Jeff Smith um and Dr Phil chetam as always we’re really happy to have you all it’s going to be really I mean jam-pack with some really really interesting information um and specific to the players that Jeff works with we’re really excited to learn about those uh what they’ve worked on and so um hope you guys are also excited we’ll let people join for the next you know minute or so um as always we’re going to keep the Q&A chat open so if you guys have any questions along the way um I will be moderating the moderating the Q&A um and bringing up the questions for Jeff and Phil to answer throughout the webinar and as always we’ll be recording this and uh posting on YouTube if you guys want to review any of the information um also joining us from our team is Paul Park our VP of Business operations and um yeah we’re excited to get started so Jeff before we jump in um we spent the week out at Pinehurst any fun stories or highlights for you um man what a what a tough Golf Course um weather was weather was hot um fun week in in North Carolina and uh you know there’s probably not a better Us open venue um I’m glad that they made a decision to to to go there every five years and with the USGA moving there um you know they built a lot of great infrastructure there I mean it feels feels like a US Open golf course and man was it a a heck of a test absolutely yeah it was really hot out there though I um felt like a soup dumpling coming back um but yeah gorgeous gorgeous venue and really really cool test of golf um I was super impressed with the GU staying so patient out there so it got frustrating I mean it was frustrating to watch sometimes I’m like how did how did that ball end up there after such a good shot right no doubt again welcome everybody um my name is G Le CEO and co-founder of sports box we are joined by um Dr Phil chetam our chief science officer Paul Park our VP of Business operations and of course our guest speaker and presenter Jeff Smith um as I mean Jeff doesn’t really need an introduction but um he is a sports box Ambassador um and a tour coach to um the legs of you know Davis Riley who recently won on the PGA tour Patrick Rogers Brandon wo um Aon w so on and so forth um and uh he has been using the product to work with the these tour players and um has been has benefited from working with the technology and the data and he’s going to share some learnings um in this webinar so we’re really excited to learn um Let me let me share a couple housekeeping notes before we get to the meat of the presentation um first from box we’ve got some major coach product updates coming those of you who are currently using sportsbox 3D golf 3D Pro um you guys have voiced your opinions about ways in which we can improve the product experience especially as it relates to uh the coaching interactions with your students like being able to easily upload uh screen recording videos and send them to your students we heard you loud and clear we worked really hard to improve those those uh experiences so uh in the next two to three weeks we’ll be making some announcements uh check your inboxes to make sure you’re in the no um but they there will be significant improvements to the coach product so hope you guys are excited about that second um a few months ago we released level two certification for sports box uh Phil worked very very hard on on uh on this and there’s a ton of really really amazing information gets uh much deeper into the data and the kind of coaching that you can do with the data um especially as it relates to speed production um in the swing and it’s uh lengthier and there’s more information on there uh both on the biomechanics and sports science SED things as well as practical knowledge so um please get in touch with us if this is something that you’re interested in um especially if you’ve done the level one and you’re looking for more information and then lastly uh you guys have probably are all you know heard about this but we have released the foresight Sports integrated feature in our app so if you guys are interested in um exploring that it allows you to combine all of the data so ball and Club data from foresight Sports devices with everything that we track um on the body and the club um it’s it’s quite amazing what you can discover um it’s what I like to call the uh the swingshot connection you know Mind Body Connection um if you will that that connection is amazing for um for really really fine-tuning and dialing in how you what kind of shots you want to produce what kind of misses you want to avoid and how you might do that with your swing so um if you guys haven’t yet checked it out please um get in touch with us all of this will be available if you contact us um through this this email address sales at sportsbox doai or if you have any of our you know email addresses we’re happy to talk through any of this so um with that I’ll hand things off to Jeff and again if you’re just joining us our Q&A is always open drop the questions into the Q&A and I’ll moderate um and uh yeah all right with that Jeff awesome I appreciate um again you guys having me on I always always enjoy these and uh I look forward to you know sharing some some examples of how I you know how I’ve used this with some PGA Tour players and then also look forward to answering any questions that um our viewers might have so I’m going to share two two case studies the first um is of Davis Riley who um I worked with for a number of years um throughout the corn fairy tour and then on to his rookie season U at the p on the PGA tour uh we separated for for a little while and recently kind of got back together this year after the players and um you know Sports box has been a sort of a big part of how I’ve shared information with him or or or sort of laid out a u a blueprint for him um for improving over these last few months to the point now to where he kind of uses Sports box as a as a lens to look at his own golf swing for for a couple of specific things and uh I look forward to sharing that with you guys um I guess uh G if if if they have if any questions go in the chat while I’m on a specific thing just kind of go ahead and interrupt me in that moment so I can kind of address it you know while you know while we’re on that topic uh let me share my screen here all right so this is the this is kind of the first lesson U that I gave Davis um when we first started back together and what we’re looking at here is sort of the pattern that he had worked himself into uh during the time that that that we weren’t working together and and I can say this pattern is very this is kind of rooted in his DNA because this is exactly what he was doing when he came to me for the very first time like three years ago um I’m going to show you the sports box data but I figured I would start with just a couple of of swings here um early in the back swing here from this down the line perspective you can see a lot of depth to the hand path uh you can see the club head working a little bit inside his hands but um also see the club working into sort of a very shut or closed position uh from there he his Natural Instincts sort of redirect the club a little bit up and across the line at the top and then from there this is kind of where the trouble starts so on the way down he has to go into a lot of right side Bend he starts to pop that left shoulder up the club start to drop behind him pretty significantly and this is this is a shorter iron I think this was like a maybe a nine iron or an eight iron and you could see just how from inside into out the swing had become a lot of face rotation through impact just sort of leading to a bigger you know a bigger draw pattern um a lot of pushes and this this problem kind of got worse and worse and worse the longer the club um looking at it from face on um the tendency for Davis was to really straighten his Trail leg very very fast at the start of the back swing and then from there that sort of pushed the center of his pelvis toward the target and that created a lot of sort of forward bend in his upper torso and that’s where that underneath sort of look that you saw from from down the line uh stem from um in in this phase of the downswing right here so you know looking at looking at this on video is one thing you can kind of see um oh wow I I see the pelvis pushing forward early but you really can’t quantify like how much that’s happening and so in his own way of trying to solve this over over several months before he came back to me was he always tried to work on his hands and arms so he would always try to get the club maybe a little bit more out in front of his hands going back to not be in that spot at the top and then but the problem is it that wasn’t the root cause there was a there was an underlying thing and then with the help of you know Sports box I’ll just kind of throw that up there really quick we could see a couple of things here so again pelvis swing towards the Target right as the club goes into Mo into motion so you know a positive number indicates uh in inches towards the target movement um so you could see the chest and the pelvis right away moving towards the Target and what that what that caused was it made it very difficult for Davis to extend his upper body or to lift his chest in the back swing and so again from this face on View Early movement of the pelvis in the direction of the target caused him to stay into forward bend for too long and that made the club it made it very difficult for the club to elevate so no matter what he tried to do with his hands take it more outside his hands change the um the the alignments of his wrist change the rotation of his forearms the club always ended up kind of in the same spot low and the inside and then once it was low into the inside he just instinctually started to close the face and so the face would work more and more shut the club always ended up low and inside and the longer the club the lower it would be and the more inside it would be again this is a pretty short iron that I’m illustrating with here but the face would would just he would just instinctly start closing the face more and more in the back swing so if he tried to swing more left to not be more underneath he would just end up hitting it left so he developed a pretty significant sort of two-way Miss with with the driver and that made it really really difficult for him to play well um so again kind of root cause here early pelvis sway toward the target right leg straightening too fast pushing the pelvis toward the target um so that when he got got to the top of the back swing was too far forward lot of deep right side Bend in the down swing and then from there it was just recovering with his hand so um to sort of fix this this back swing thing um Jeff I have a question yes how did you arrive at that conclusion did you look at the data searching for answers or did you see something and you were you checked the data what is what do that process like for you yeah so I mean I use Sports box in his very first lesson um I I had him just warming up I hit I had him hit shots I noticed it on the I noticed on the very first swing that I filmed on my on my phone that the club was way inside and so I that’s when I got Sports box out and I started to look at the sway values of the CH chest and the pelvis and also the forward bend values of the chest and I could see basically what the root cause was at that point um and again I’d asked him a few questions like you know what have you been trying to do what what’s the ball flat pattern you’re trying to achieve and you know uh he’s played he’s played his best golf when he wasn’t curving the ball very much so um with a more inline condition right here at this position and then more in line coming down um he’s able to hit it very very straight so you just kind of look at how underneath that is and then so this over here is a is a pretty recent swing um I think this was last week at Hartford but you know the takeaway you’re going to film it you’re going to obviously see right away okay the club’s not as inside but what you’re really not going to see is oh to to get to this position we changed how how his pelvis was swaying in the back swing and how fast he was extending his upper body to get the club to elevate a little bit faster and so just changing this position here really kind of changed where he went at the top we haven’t worked a lot on sort of top of back swing here it just kind of goes there more naturally when the club is less inside early and then on the way down the club is much more lined up way less underneath and from there he can start the ball in a much tighter ball flight pattern with with a lot less curve so he can actually work the ball both left to right and right to left and then you see much more stable you know Club Face action through the ball in in in these golf swings so what does this look like on the left here in 3D um let’s see kind of looks a little bit like this so you can see there’s no positive pelvis sway right now if anything he’s pretty centered with the pelvis uh and but he’s working a little bit away from the target so at lead arm parallel and this is kind of our reference point right here um I want him to be pretty much either at zero or somewhere between a half an inch um generally a half an inch away from the target at this point um I’ve got players that are zero and and slightly toward the target that are really good ball Strikers in this position but for Davis I mean I actually had him doing rehearsal feeling his pelvis swinging two in away from the Target and again measuring it and then him feeling it was two different things and so when he felt like he was doing it a ton he got here he got basically to barely moving his pelvis away from the target um what that looks like in [Music] a live swing um again the key for him was feeling like he was really swaying his pelvis in this direction away from the Target and you can see clearly in the in the 2D video that he’s not doing that and then when you measure it on Sports box it’s just barely moving away from the target um and then it has a nice little reentering move at top of back swing and what that looks like down of this and then on the way down we don’t have this massive sway gap between the pelvis and the chest we have a nice relationship um we always want you know some sway Gap there and that that sway Gap will increase gradually into impact and that’s that sway G at impact is something that I look at a lot um especially with Elite level players because they’re generally trying to hit the ball higher uh especially when we get into the long irons uh three Woods off the ground things of that nature um and I’m going to talk in my next case about something similar but it’s actually going to be the opposite case study um so with with Davis just again our parameters are we’re looking at that lead arm parallel in the back swing where are those two segments where are where’s the chest the center of the chest and where is the pelvis if he is pushing into this ground really really hard early in his takeaway and straightening his Trail leg too fast it sends the center of his pelvis toward the target and when that happens that creates again a forward bend of the Torso that he simply can’t get out of fast enough and the club goes low into the inside and then his instinctual reaction to that is to close the face more and then that’s when we have sort of the the two-way Miss pattern but I think it’s this might be a good moment to pause to see if anybody has any questions about this specific player or uh specific metrics that I uh any anything else about this guy before I move on to the next it been a good definition would be you know sway Gap not everybody may be familiar with that that uh terminology perfect so um I I if I was using the app I would just throw that one of those data the swake app data points down here at the bottom um because we can kind of measure that at a few different points in the swing um but I’ll just um I pre-recorded this so um I’ll just kind of talk you through it so when I when I hear the term or when I use the term sway Gap I am looking at literally the gap between the pelvis and the Torso or the chest and the and the pelvis and in this case right here the center of Davis’s chest has moved about one inch away from the Target and his pelvis has pretty much stayed Center pretty close to zero so he has about a one inch Gap way Gap in between those two body segments now the greater that is the more um side bend the golfers is typically going to have when they start rotating in the downswing uh the more shallowing effect it has on the club um you can do any of this stuff too much and and in Davis’s case he did a bit of it too much and that caused him to be a little too under it on the way down and from there it was kind of a timing game uh with his uh with his release pattern and so you can manipulate these these variables in a golf swing I mean this is essentially golf swing geometry um if if we were measuring someone that strictly faded the golf ball we would probably see a much bigger sway of the pelvis away from the target uh in the back swing that would create more left side Bend to the upper body and then when they transitioned their sternum would be a little bit more forward relative um to where Davis is at it would be very stacked on top and it would make it much easier for the golfer to rotate open and swing to the left so you know if if you’re trying to problem solve a you know a ball flight pattern this is generally one of the places I’m going to look because the body heavily affects what the arms are doing and I’m G I’m most often times I mean I’m looking at this with every single player doesn’t matter what the issue is I I need to know the relationship of their pelvis relative to their chest in late back swing swing at top of back swing and early transition that’s going to tell me a lot about what they’re trying to do Jeff just a quick comment on sway Gap you can also think of it from the point of view of torso tilt if you like more sway Gap obviously the more side tilt that you’re going to have from a from a face on view Okay so we’ve got um Kirk asking what is an acceptable sway Gap number at impact yeah so there’s ranges you know it it it’s going to you know as you kind of Master you know using Sports box I mean obviously there’s great software here they we we give you PGA toour arranges so you can use those as a as as a kind of general guide um but it’s going to largely depend upon the ball flight that the player is trying to achieve for someone that wants to hit a draw you’re going to see a bigger sway Gap at impact um so if we look at Davis here you know impact is probably about right here you see about 3.2 degrees of of sway Gap there someone like Rory is more like five degrees sorry that’s inches I’m sorry I said degrees degrees I’m sorry inches um someone someone like Rory is gon to be more about five inches and then obviously the longer the club when you get to driver you’re going to see an even bigger sway Gap because of ball position uh and and the desire to want to launch the golf ball but um I can answer your question in sort of a generic term um if you’re working with someone that’s wanting to hit the ball fairly straight that doesn’t lock themselves into a big draw pattern or a big fade pattern um at top of back swing I’m used to seeing about one inch uh difference between the chest and the pelvis and then in early transition you know sort of this uh P5 alignment this is a reference point that I will use a lot um I’m used to seeing somewhere between one and a half to two inches in this Ballpark and then down here by impact I’m used to seeing somewhere in this range where you kind of see uh Davis at a little over three inches could be up to four inches U if they are are playing a draw okay um Adam wants to know do you share this data with the stud or must or more just educate the player with conversation and you know drills exercises no I absolutely share it with the player in fact they have accounts when I’m not with them um they’re on the road like this week I’m not I didn’t go to to Detroit and they’re getting their phones out they’re filming their swing um on Sports box and sending it to me um or if they don’t if they don’t have the the software downloaded they’re filming it and sending it to me and asking me to upload it into my phone um but they’re they’re absolutely using this as sort of a a marker for for where they want to be then um did you use forward bend numbers as a reference for him I I did uh well I used um for Davis I didn’t necessarily use forbin I used chess lift um because that was one of the verbal cues that I gave him in his golf swing uh to to to rectify this the first thing I told him to do was instead of pushing really hard down and and straightening his Trail leg and driving his hips forward I asked him to Simply feel like he was lifting his chest early in the back swing and swaying his pelvis away from the target so it made a lot of sense to him to see the number of you know he would get halfway through his back swing you know kind of in in this phase here and he would be one to 1.2 inches down still at this point on the previous um on the previous swings and so we’re trying to get it roughly to zero um or even higher I like it you know a half inch to an to an inch up at this point because we know it’s going to drop a little bit in in late backswing and early transition that’s cool I can’t do you have the after of his down the line move uh yes let’s see was it a immediate aha for him like did it click with them or it a gradual progress I mean no it was it it was right away I mean he he missed the cut at the players and he asked me to start he asked me to work with him again he I was there all week and so he hung around and Sunday we got on the back of the range at the players and worked on it and he went the next week to Tampa and and struck it well so uh he was able to just kind of stay on a little linear progression upwards um and you know he’s had to work through the feels a little bit uh in competition but I think he’s got an incredibly solid blueprint at this point and what we work on doesn’t really change very much now yeah I’m curious um what that process is like to like keep him dialed in like you guys found something like does he do this on the road or do you check with them when you’re there yeah so it you just you just took kind of the words out of my mouth is you know a swing can look different 2D on on video If you get the wrong camera angle or you have the caddy filming it or it’s just something different it can look a little bit different but when you’re when you have a good camera angle face on with with sports box the data is going to pretty much be the same and I could show you you know his last five tournaments and that the data is pretty much the same every single time now and so it’s it’s definitely a reference point and when he when he gets which he you know everybody does we’ll be able to we’ve documented what does it look like when he goes and blows the field away at a place like Colonial um and and had the ball on an absolute string that week we know that we know what that looks like from a sports box lens now and so we can always reference that it’s very cool um last question would Davis’s sling fault be his fatal flaw that he developed over time or did did he begin to hit too many draws low draw shots which caused his flaws so he he has always been a drawer of the golf ball that is his natural Baseline pattern it’s what he gravitates towards and um you know he it it it’s pretty coded in his DNA to push his right foot into the ground really hard and push his pelvis toward the target early and go into a lot of forward bend and late back swing um and so yeah he’s he he gravitates back toward that pattern when when he doesn’t have uh some some followup there Craig wanted to know what were the L and path numbers from bad to good for Riley yeah so that swing that I showed you uh earlier the that first one um I had the uh obviously I had track man running on this swing and this this nine iron was 4 into out um which is quite a lot with a lot of curve and you know he’s he’s probably playing somewhere around one to two right when he’s trying to hit a draw but now so he has the confidence he’s sprinkling in a lot more Fades um in competition because he can do it now and so I I I think he’s you know his path on a stock draw is one to two right and his his pass is probably one to two left on a cut shot um then Michael wants to know what indicators what indicators do you look at if someone’s lacking pelvis and chest turn at impact as in what is a common cause of somebody not having enough pelvis and chest turn at impact using Sports so yeah so it’s gonna the rotation values are going to be significantly impacted by the sway values um the more someone is swaying their pelvis toward the target in the downswing the more diff difficult is going to be to rotate open so essentially as a golf coach we’re trying to blend uh some lateral forces some rotational forces and some vertical forces to to create a matchup that is uh effective for the player and so if I have someone in front of me that that typically can’t rotate uh the first thing I do is I look at you know what’s the club doing in transition is it in a position that uh would be positively affected by rotation or is it in a position that would be negatively affected by rotation and a lot of people uh a lot of a lot of the students that come to me their Club is not in a position to be supported by rotation so they’re generally going into early extension they’re generally standing up they’re generally sliding the pelvis tilting the spine back uh doing a lot of things counter to uh rotating open so I hope that answers his question yeah thank you all right I think we can keep going and all right perfect let’s load this next guy up here um so my next student or next case study I’m going to share is my rookie uh on the PGA tour and this is Max brazer and um uh Max um is is is an incredible athlete um he’s a bit unique in the fact that he has severe scoliosis and it’s a wild curvature of his spine and it curves um in the direction of the target he’s a right-handed golfer so it’s very easy for Max to get into left Bend um in the downswing and um that’s kind of the issue that we found here and so the reason that we went down this road is uh Max has not driven the ball as good as someone with as much Talent as he has I mean his his golf swing biomechanically is amazing he creates a lot of force has a lot of speed and he’s a very good iron player especially short irons and wedges and his mechanics sort of lend to him being able to to compress the ball and flight the ball and hit it low when he needs to um but it it hinders his ability to hit the driver in the center of the face to control the face and path to hit the longer irons um high enough I shouldn’t say high enough he could always hit the longer irons high if he wanted to because he has so much speed he had a difficult time hitting three quarter shots when he was taking speed off high uh so that that was the uh that was the journey that was in front of us that was what we were solving for was the ability to hit driver more consistently with a consistent shape and starting line which is a start left kind of fade and then be able to hit three quarter shots high enough when we’re taking some speed off and um he was kind of a unicorn for me because I’ve never measured another Tour player that was doing this and pretty much the opposite of what you saw Davis doing um max essentially got to the top of his back swing and then when he transitioned his chest would sway pretty much in front of his pelvis coming down you know here we are like halfway down and you can see uh he’s in a lot of left you know he was in a lot of left Bend uh his sternum was moving forward um I I had not measured too many players especially elite players that were getting in in this alignment right here um you know chest um almost you know over a half an inch in front of the pelvis here now with an iron you can kind of get away from get away with this because you can just continue to turn and rotate and drive the club into the ground now this made Max on the steeper side um he would take bigger divots U he would hit the ground really hard and um max two years ago had a pretty significant wrist injury and I I believe this was the root cause of of that wrist injury to the point to where he didn’t know if he was going to be playing golf anymore he was he missed basically a full year on the corn fairy tour um luckily he got healthy um got some great doctors got healthy and then went on got his tour card and boom he’s Off to the Races as a rookie this year finished top 20 at the US Open a couple weeks ago so um but this one was tricky um finding a feel that gets someone’s chest to not sway out of transition in front of their pelvis and you know the pelvis is swinging so it’s doing its job but the chest that that that and again let me P let me pull up a 2d uh video of Max remember we’re we’re dealing with some Anatomy issues here we’ve got a a spine that is really really curved towards the Target and this is actually a good swing right here that we’re looking at but you could still see traces of that left shoulder moving down and forward even in this really really good swing here so what we’re looking at here on the right is something that looks like this so at the top the sway values were were still pretty similar um death moving about one inch away from the target pelvis moving one inch toward the target so he has a little bit bigger sway Gap than than Davis at the top and I I’m I’m okay with that I wanted him to be in less left side Bend in transition I wanted his sternum less toward the target to be able to hit the ball higher and again you can see now that pelvis is leading the way that chest is it’s still moving forward it’s still moving toward the target but it’s trailing the pelvis a little bit and then that allows him to be shallower not hit the ground so hard um that allows him to be you know the shallower angled attack um he still can reduce Dynamic LOF and have the handle forward and compress the ball but he can hit the ball so much higher from here and so when you look at this impact position what that sway Gap at impact looks like is probably something like that frame right there so again he’s he’s in a three-inch sway Gap very similar to to Davis but how he’s getting there is a lot different than how Max used to get there so the reason why this was so problematic uh with the driver is and um gosh I don’t have one face on here sorry um you know Max would really lead with this left shoulder down and forward and that led to that sternum getting in front of the ball and then he had to try to back up at the last minute and so you would see Max’s head drive way back with the driver um and as as his head’s driving back and his pelvis is driving forward at the last minute that led to generally a lot of toe contact with the driver um and then from there all bets are off you don’t know what corrections to make in your swing because you’re getting a lot of gear effect um you’re getting a lot of low spin shots that are that are unpredictable but the feeling that he has right now and and it’s it’s a wild feeling for him is in transition he literally feels like he’s sending his head straight back this way and he’s sending his pelvis straight toward the target now we know that’s not actually what’s happening but he he has to feel that to not have his sternum move down in front of his his pelvis halfway down and uh I mean it it’s been a pretty remarkable change for him off the te and this is this is this is pretty recent so I mean we’re talking the last three or four events um where he’s really been been working hard hard on this and seeing you know just some amazing results from a from an off the te standpoint and and Max has the potential to be one of the leaders in Strokes gained off the te on the PGA tour he’s a 185 ball speed guy can really really move it a great athlete um so he can hit it as far as you know probably the top 10 per of the PGA Tour um he just has to hit it in the face a little bit more often with a little better starting line and and predictable curve but when he puts that piece together I think you’re going to see a superstar this is a really big change how do you how does a player adapt to the change and how do they connect the feel uh so I mean over correction could be an issue right like what what how do you yeah how do you manage that yeah man I wish he was on here to answer that question because you know the first couple of times we worked on it he was like wow this is a bizarre feeling um I really feel like my head is a mile behind the ball coming down uh but again showing them the data it you get instant like buyin and credibility that what they’re feeling isn’t as radical as what’s actually happening um and you know once they understand the concept and and they you have the Buy in then I mean these guys just go put the work in and so you know this um ma Max probably made this change in three weeks to be honest he had a little bit of a break during the uh a couple of elevated events that were kind of stacked back to back and uh he used those he used those weeks off you know super wisely we were grinding on this and uh he actually made a trip to Memphis and my studio has Sports box Studio so when you show a tour player their 3D on every swing they can make adjustments wildly fast um and so having that feedback loop all it is is feel right so he’s like okay I’m Gonna Fill my hips a little more forward boom that’s two inches of hip sway okay I’m gonna feel it a little bit more than that boom that’s four inches of hip sway um the the advantage of having the studio versus sitting there and trying to film it with your phone over over and over it’s hard to film any swing on a range over and over and over with your phone but having that instant feedback Luke uh via the sportsbox studio is a game changer and all my guys come to come to you know my my place in Memphis probably once a month if not once every five or six weeks uh just to have sort of that that feedback loop that’s awesome um and yeah I can I can imagine an athlete like this you know once they’re validating every swing with the data it’s like how how fast they can adapt um uh what launch monitor numbers do you like to see for a player that likes it fades with the driver um so I’m I’m generally looking at their angled attack their swing Direction and their club path and I’m looking at how they’re forming that club path so are they getting a pass that’s two left by hitting two up because that tells me their swing directions pretty neutral or are they swinging six up to get a path that’s one to the left um so I’m looking at sort of those three numbers um to see how they’re forming their club path okay and then Keith wanted to know um you know we’ve had the chest sway pelvis sway chest chest side Bend numbers up on these recorded uh screen recordings do you like those three numbers mostly for new golfer what are the three points that are most important if there’s such a thing or do you yeah I mean I’m gonna have for a new golfer I’m gonna have chest Sway and pelvis sway right off the bat because new golfers need to learn how to control the low point of their swing you know if you look at Max here and you say boom there’s the bottom and if I’ve got a new golfer in front of me me and they’re fatting and thinning every shot I’m going to teach them that they need to create a low Point that’s somewhere in front of the golf ball and then I’m going to have them understand that through this Sports box lens that how much they sway away from the ball in the back swing is going to need to be matched up with the the capability of swinging at least that much back to the ball which most new players do not have so I’m going to get them a lot more centered I’m going to use I’m going to use the chess way and pelvis way to illustrate that and then generally with newer golfers there’s a lot of restrictive movements in their swing meaning they’re not turning their pelvis as much as they can they’re not turning their shoulders as much as they can um gol new players need to essentially do two things they need to control the low point which means hit it solidly and they need to hit it further so um we can layer on things after that but if you get all beginning golfers to be able to strike the little ball before the big ball um you’re going to you’re going to be winning right away right there so yeah I’m going to look at chest sway pelvis sway chest rotation um pelvis rotation and I’ll start I’ll probably almost always have chest side bin in there as well um that that’s where I’m going to start and then I’m going to expand based on what it what unique challenge I’m trying to problem solve awesome um this is a general question that we get a lot from coaches uh that are new to the system like do you follow a like what what would you say your process is you know between in a lesson you get somebody in you know you see their swing video them Sports box them like what what like and when does data come into the picture yeah I mean I I kind of grew up in the golf instruction World on data so like that’s all I know I mean that’s that’s that’s rooted in me so I have data running from the first swing um in my studio there’s a track man on the ground um there is a video camera face on down the line um and there’s Sports box B on running uh face on down the line and so um in the past I mean I’ve been using Sports box for a while now but I’ve only had studio for about five months four months and um in the past I would say I didn’t use Sports box every lesson just because of the convenience factor but now I use it every now I use it every lesson in the hitting Bay because um it just makes my explanation what I’m going to tell the player when I start describing root cause it just the visual cue for the player just makes it so much easier to understand like some people look at data and they feel like it’s a bit intimidating because they’re not really sure what it means or what they’re talking about but when you show them that Avatar and you show the markers coming out of the chest and the pelvis they’re like right away it makes sense to them and so you know plus all the different views that you can look at above behind like I used to just walk around golfers filming them from all those angles behind them you know I’ve even had cameras above in the studio trying to get you know that above you and could never get it right so um this is I have this running from from the beginning because it makes my illustration and explanation a lot easier Jeff I think Studio one of the things I like about studio is you you can just swing and then the numbers pop up and then you can swing again and the numbers pop up and you don’t have to touch anything it’s a it’s it’s awesome yeah I mean and there’s even some software features in there Dr Phil that you know the you know I’m a graph guy so to me when I can just click it and look up look at the graphs and Studio I can pinpoint it the I can pin pinpoint where the amateur is over is is crossing over the overlay of the pro pretty quickly and kind of hone in in that specific area of the swing and it a lot of times will show me what’s happening in the 2D video when I start looking at the 2D video and so for me just matching those two things up is um is huge glad to hear you like graphs yep fills ears when you say I love graphs um yeah he he got me uh he got me started on that several years ago so I couldn’t couldn’t get away from it okay two more questions we have here Jim wants to know can you elaborate on what you get out of the side Bend numbers for your beginners do you teach a lot of beginners first of all um I don’t teach as many beginners anymore but I you know I uh I will have the occasional beginner um you know a friend of mine will call me up and say hey I got a buddy that wants a lesson of you can you see him and yeah come on and so a lot of times those kind of players will be you know High handicappers uh but what I get out of um the get looking at side bin values of beginning players is beginning players can’t really do it they can’t really go into right side Bend in the down swing because their position their pelvis is not in the correct position their Club is not in the correct position and they generally can’t offset side bin with rotation of their body because either a they haven’t been trained to do it or sometimes they’re not they’re physically not in good enough shape to do it and so what I’ll typically see is at the top of back swing uh High handicappers tend to overextend and over sway the chest toward the toward the target um and that’s because they don’t use their wrist and hand load their wrist and hand systems properly in the back swing and then they come out of transition in a lot of left side bin and they almost never get into right side bin until the very last minute um so yeah that’s typ that’s the typical pattern I would see if from high handicappers or beginners um okay what do you what do you like to see in different what do you like to see different in full swing versus dis wedge swings oh that’s a great question um well since we’re on the Hot Topic of ss that’s the first thing that I’m going to see a difference in um in a you know a distance wedge swing we’re gonna almost never see any negative um sway away from the target with the chest or the pelvis it’s a much more centered type of motion because number one it’s a shorter motion um number two The Stance is typically narrower so there’s not as much side to side motion and there’s also a lot more of a premium on low Point control because we want to be able to flight those wedges and hit them a little bit lower so we’re going to pretty much see if one of my if we’re looking at Max’s wedge uh swing here on Sports box we’re going to see the chest uh let’s say that would be the top of his back swing right there we’re going to see the chest at zero or even a half an inch toward the target at the top of back swing and we’re going to see the pelvis somewhere between one inch to one and a half inches to maybe even two inches towards the target at top of back swing so there’s not going to be very much translation away from the Target on a on a distance wedge swing um the other thing is it just depends on your philosophy so a lot of a lot of coaches like to teach less wrist hinge more body driven pivots um for for distance wedges and and I like to do that too I teach Junior golfers kind of that that motion on a clock system and what we’ll see in that scenario is the rotation values of the body really increasing uh because we’re taking away some of the speed elements out of the hands and arms and we’re putting it into the body and so therefore they’ve got to rotate the body a bit faster um to generate any kind of force or any kind of speed so they might be a little bit more open um with the pelvis at impact on a wedge swing we might see a little bit more right side bend on a wedge swing because they’ll tend to have the shaft leaning a little bit more forward um at impact on a on a wedge swing um yeah so those are just those are couple things that come to mind that you’d see can atically different on a wedge swing and also uh from a measurement standpoint different yeah I mean one thing I’m picking up from hearing you speak is I think it’s really important to just look at a lot of different swings and figure out what your um I mean what the ranges are like the more more things you look at on Sports box you kind of figure out like what is what is normal what is good what is bad what is good for this type of Club versus that um yeah yeah and so I’ve I’ve sort of cataloged I I coach a lot of high level players a lot of college players professional players and I’ve sort of cataloged sportsbot sports box um uh screen recordings if you will for for these players and I’ve kind of created a fade folder in a draw folder a high ball folder a low ball folder and you’d be astonished at how similar these movement patterns are when they’re hitting the same shot it doesn’t matter and they can have wildly different Anatomy so like if I if I compare Patrick Rogers and Max I mean Patrick’s like 62 with super long legs and short arms and Max is like 510 but man if they’re both hitting a stock fade they look identical at impact and you know from a a side bend a rotation U value standpoint they I mean they look almost identical and then vice versa when they both hit a draw they they look less rotated open more side bent it’s so the patterns become pretty clear when you start measuring a bunch of different golfers and kind of cataloging them if you will that’s really cool um all right we’ve got one more question uh from Michael have you used sports box for elite players to generate more speed so like speed training what key indicators would you look at yeah that’s a that’s another great question so um I haven’t I haven’t to be to be quite honest I haven’t used sports box a lot for that purpose um I do have some speed protocols that I will put players through um and typically I’m just using trackman for that um I’m generally talking a bit more about how to use the ground different ground reaction forces um you know one thing that will change um if you see that Tempo number there um on on on Sports box is I will manipulate that quite a bit um I will speed the back swing up like crazy um if I’m trying to get a player to hit their driver further um so that they have to desel learn to decelerate that back swing velocity and create a bigger stretch uh shortening cycle and transition um so that’s that’s that’s one thing that I will look at on Sports box but um I haven’t I haven’t used it you know honestly enough for for that purpose probably yeah um Phil maybe you can chime in here because we’ve done some research on on you know motion data relating to speed production yeah just recently did a presentation on our speed profile and if I may share the screen for just a second uh can I take it away from you there it is by the way really really fascinating stuff and um and awesome to see the success of your players Jeff thank you so so Jeff you may have seen this but if you haven’t it’s something we can talk about in the future we’ve created a a speed report a speed profile where we’ve got uh five boxes of different sports box parameters that we measure sports box indicators if you like we have rotational range of motion so chest turn Max pelvis turn Max X Factor Max then we have rotational speeds which come from the kinematic sequence those are the max speeds um and then we have of course horizontals so we have rotation horizontals and verticals and we also look at release characteristics and so just uh briefly those are like 15 different variables that we come up with our speed report and we compare the corpro this is based on 55 to Pros so if you see your numbers high in here then you’re doing really really good it’s very specific to the to Pros um but it gives you an idea quickly what your percentile ranking is um this actually was Bryson the Shambo speed report and you see that wow he’s way high on chest turn pelvis turn X Factor and certainly really high on on speeds um rotational speeds so he actually releases a little bit earlier but that’s more because he’s trying to control the shot shape that he’s looking for uh and he has a high hand speed so yeah uh with sports box these numbers are available directly as indicators in sports box so you don’t have to have this speed report you can look at these numbers directly Bill what’s the fastest hand speed you see um it’s pretty like like look at that it’s Bryson is 25.6 and he’s 9 second percentile that only that means that only since it was 55 only three or four guys are faster than him so you’re looking at 26 miles per hour perhaps I don’t know what you’ve seen but yeah yeah I I actually had Kyle West Morland in my studio yesterday on on this exact thing and he was 28 miles an hour oh my wow that’s definit yeah about 130 34 miles an hour Club head speed on track man so and the other thing you got to remember with hand speed is it doesn’t Max out at impact it’s part of the kinematic sequence um and it would be the same timing as the lead on swing speed um it Peaks out and you can see we got some numbers here time before impact about 60 milliseconds for men and about 80 milliseconds for women so yeah it’s got to decelerate because the club’s got to release into impact so there’s a lot of cool stuff in there and we’re looking more and more at the speed stuff as well and we’ll be looking at direction as well next all right well we’re at time unfortunately I feel like we could talk about this stuff forever and ever but um we will wrap this up for now again thanks everybody and thank you Jeff for providing all this great information and sharing knowledge with all of us and Phil thank you for being here and sharing your knowledge um and thanks everybody for joining this is fun um and we’ll post this on YouTube uh in a couple days and you guys will get notifications about it all right thanks everybody have a good
