Phil Mickelson on Bryson, HyFlyers Future, and “Searching for Peace” | Episode 31

Phil Mickelson joins Jerry Foltz and Su-Ann Heng to discuss his vision for HyFlyers GC and how he can help grow the game. The six-time Major Champion reflects on the highs and lows of his career, winning for the right reasons, and how technology has allowed younger players to improve faster than ever before. Lefty also shares high praise for Bryson DeChambeau after his second U.S. Open Win.

Time Codes:
0:00 – Intro
1:25 – LIV Golf Nashville Preview
2:50 – U.S. Open Recap
8:45 – LIV Golfers at the Olympics
10:37 – Phil Mickelson Joins the Show
10:55 – Phil on Bryson’s U.S. Open Win
12:39 – Technology’s Help to Young Players
15:13 – Future of HyFlyers GC
20:35 – Salting Golf Balls
21:56 – 1st Tee at Centurion in 2022
25:06 – Winless drought 2013-2018
27:18 – Taking Young Players Under His Wing
30:33 – Phil’s Career Expectations
32:42 – Phil Mickelson’s legacy
34:20 – Fairway to Love
37:27 – The Makings of a Phil Movie
41:14 – Phil Learning From Himself
45:20 – Reacting to Phil Mickelson Conversation

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sorry you must be burning that heat I bring the heat what do you [Music] mean welcome to another episode of fairw to Heaven thank you so much for choosing us I don’t know why you do but uh if you want pain in your ears I guess you’re at the right place my name is SN hang and with me is Jerry fult as usual we’re uh co-hosting the show yeah yeah uh we’re here in Nashville we’re both feeling um just a little less than 100% just a little lightweights Broadway Broadway we went down to Broadway last night it was some of the best people watching in the world it was it was so much fun you just told me you rolled out of your car this morning exactly I didn’t roll it was kind of a bounce you you can’t bounce the your life oh yeah yeah yeah that’s what the kids call it now I’m going to bounce we bounced it sometime in the morning don’t say that it’s really uncomfortable by the way you look like you just came from the freaking bowling alley and want me comment on that top yeah please no no no wouldn’t be ni I’m trying to bait you there was a place where those were all over the place downtown last night had a cover charge okay now let’s talk about the golf shall we uh we’re here in Nashville who’s your individual pick and your team pick for the individual pick is Waco because statistically he’s great top to bottom he should win every week based on the stats but he did won the first two uh Team I like tqu tqu is overdue they should if they can putt 12 out of 13 teams in putting on live but if they just manage to putt decently which most of that statistically is Meo who struggled with the putter this year um they should they should be able to do it but I mean the course it doesn’t look like of course it favors any style of game there is a larger than much larger than average uh re value distance value off the te here based on the corn Fair stats from the three years or four years they played here the BR CER event so uh hitting it in the Fairway and long is an advantage here which basically is an advantage everywhere you play on yeah everywhere uh mine’s quen as well for the exact same reason yes um and I’m going to go with the riers I am yeah you know last and Houston they got so close right I mean at one point it was what the cleaks The Crushers Ripper I mean it was nuts and cam set a new record for the worst four holes in Liv golf history the last four holes of his round but you know the best players in the world have the shortest memory he went to the US Open and had a great week there play pretty well decent week yeah great speaking of the US Open yes ma’am we’re in the back end of it yeah uh congratulations to our man Bryson pretty cool that last hour um I couldn’t watch it but I was listening to the USGA radio where where were you I was in Singapore you didn’t have it on TV I I don’t have cable in Singapore no it’s like the most technologically advanced country world I don’t have C as an I didn’t sign up for cable cuz I’m traveling so much it doesn’t make any sense and every time I watch TV I’m watching freaking Paw Patrol with my son yeah yeah so um anyway so but I I I listen to it on radio and I was on the edge of my seat for an hour I could I mean between 16 and 18 I mean you know my son called me 27 now you know Jackson and he said dad that was that was at least the second greatest golf tournament I’ve ever watched he watches everything I think it was I think it was the drama of it now take Bryson and Rory just the drama the back and forth the the amount of players who had a chance to win uh coming in I don’t know you know last 3 hours of the show it was just it was was awesome and then Bryson to make that up and down on the last hole was nuts and then you can’t help but feel for Rory I mean you can’t you’re not even if you’re not a Rory fan you have to you have to empathize with the two Miss putts and how heart wrenching gut-wrenching that is heartbreaking yeah I think he just announced that he’s going to pull out uh Travelers uh I think he’s taking off to the sky to get off to the Scot open to to regroup and and you know he’s got a lot going on in his life and and I um I I will go on a slight rant here and I think people need to be kinder to these golfers I think we need to stop I I I get that our job is to call it as it is our job is to maybe some some of us might be more critical than others and that’s fine but I think when you get to a point of being mean yeah that’s when it’s like it’s almost all Anonymous people on the social media you you should you shouldn’t be mean because I think we put these athletes on such a pedestal like at the end of the day they’re human beings they’re going to make mistakes a few weeks past the Grayson Murray tragedy and and all of a sudden they just pile on again yeah it’s just you know but the thing is these same fans when he’s on a high they write with him yeah when he’s down they’re ready to same as tiger right the same type of fans and and I’m just saying like don’t be mean that’s all I’m saying be don’t be mean you can be you can be critical but not to a point where you are a a-hole right not with that I like being an a-hole you are an a-hole so you’re excused um but anyways yes congratulations to Bryson that was a difficult I don’t know I I think most golfers know how difficult that was that that bunker shot yeah but really I mean the percentages of of getting that insight for feed is like what I enjoy yeah the shot 1.94% chance of getting in in that tight yeah what I enjoy the most is the way he’s now revered through all of golf you know there is some divisiveness still between Liv and PJ tour but in all of golf he is box office he is a natural born Entertainer everybody reveres him everybody I mean he had so many people pulling for when I mean I know Rory is from Ireland but he’s mostly American now yeah the amount of people out there pulling for Rory every single week is enormous cuz he’s been a spokesperson for the game and almost kind of a an appointed caretaker of some in some respects from the PJ tour standpoint um he’s got a huge following in in the UK and in America and it was nothing compared to the people out there rooting for Bryson it was just awesome was awesome he he’s uh win or lose was awesome yeah they call him uh man of the people man of man of the people and and for him to by the way he stayed till something like 10:45 p.m. to sign autographs to New York and got in at 2 a.m. yeah that’s not a long flight yeah um and so you know he he really is growing trying to grow the game of golf and I know that’s his goal that’s Prett but speaking of which a sixth a second and a first and he’s not in the Olympics I know and he’s just creeped into the top 10 in the world purely by playing the major championships he’s at worst second best player in the world right now at worst and he’s not on the US Olympic team um um you know how I feel about that you know I I it’s not politics honestly I I I mean the Olympics of the internet every country should be able to decide their own criteria for selecting their athletes but they had to do it based on a common criteria so that they could get the most stars in the Olympics which is the countries who are in the top 15 all the players in the top 15 can have up to four players all other countries get two if they’re not in the top 15 um and America happens to have a lot more than four in top 15 Bryson’s the fifth odd man out uh but the obviously the owgr is is the ship is sailed it’s it’s useless it’s gone it means absolutely nothing except for PJ tour TV media rights that’s the only reason they’re still adhering to it the majors are starting to come around I think it’s the Olympics had time to be proactive and wasn’t and that’s a shame yeah it is a shame because I mean if you see what he did at the US Open not just just talk don’t even talk about his play obviously that’s obvious that the results spoke for itself but the impact of him winning and the amount of viewership and fans and having people watch the game and having people watch the Olympics um is is why you you should have them there highest rated East Coast uh US Open final round since got I don’t know one doesn’t surprise me one bit it does not surprise me when you have Rory and Bryson coming down the stretch uh for the US Open that’s exciting uh speaking of the Olympics though we do have a few players who did make it the Olympic team congratulations to who had to make the cut of the US Open uh to represent just pass in Texas yeah and uh so he’ll be playing with his good buddy John Ram representing Spain right down there uh he’s he was he was right down there um and then we have Carlos Ortiz also in hen also in I just meito I saw just got in I could get that wrong but yes I saw Meo got in um did I already say or I think answer’s in yeah is burm uh I don’t even know South Africans are I don’t think so um but a few players got in but yeah uh congratulations to everyone that that did make the Olympic team and I still think Bryson should be on the Olympic team yes um what else do we have to cover this week that’s it I’m done that’s it yeah okay well uh every week we have a special guest uh that chooses uh to join us on our show uh who or some choose for that some choose and some don’t uh we’ think it was this guy’s choice we’re not sure we would like to think it was chice yeah them with line dancing video yes yes I’m uh as always every week I’m very excited to have our guest and uh this week we have six-time major Champion he’s won 57 professional events worldwide he is the captain of the High Flyers team he also has the best caves in the business it’s Phil melson uh Phil thank you so much for doing this with us um on the back end of the US Open where were you when you were watching the last hour of the US Open and what are your thoughts on on what happened so I played terrible and I went back home and watched it and it was riveting I thought I think I think Bryson’s the most uh charismatic fun player to watch in the game today he comes at the game in such a different way he’s exciting cuz he he hits it so far but he’s also exciting because he connects with the fans and he has this great energy and I’ve always seen this in him and enjoyed being around him I learn a lot when I’m with him and so watching him play and come down the stretch and seeing the way he attacked that golf course and and dominated it um was was really impressive that’s um you just described a younger version of you somebody if people would have described you 20 years ago why they loved watching him and still today but you just describe that guy so exciting to watch connects with the fans you’ve always done that well thank you I I’ve come at the game a little bit different way as well but not as scientific as Bryson and I I learn a lot when I talk to him I really enjoy listening to him and then as a player you have to decide does this apply to my game or not right there’s a lot of ways to be successful there’s a lot of ways as long as you’re going north and as long as you’re working forward there’s a lot of paths to get there what you don’t want to do is keep going sideways I’ll try this or I’ll try that you want to stay on your path and go that way and so my my path was always a little bit different but I stayed on it and had success and Bryson’s path is is very different and he’s staying on it and he’s having tremendous success and there’s a lot of paths that will get you there but you need to stay on your own personal path and he’s so exciting because it’s so different and unique from everybody else in the game yeah you know I had this uh thought I watched your interview with uh Pat McAfee this was like two years ago I think you you spoke with him and you’re talking about all that stuff with Bryson and how he taught you that you you know the dimples of the golf ball that’s why it spins a lot more when it’s wet out there and I just thought to myself when you I mean you’ve been playing for such a long time back then you didn’t have all the technology that we have today whether it’s information whether it’s it’s golf clubs whether it’s all that stuff do you think the technology is helping you now or would you think that it hinders the game of golf for you personally it doesn’t hinder the game what it does is it spoon feeds the ability to become really good for all the young players meaning we have great instruction so guys can get phenomenal instruction phenomenal video and get their golf swing right when I when I was uh started working with Dave pels in uh January of 2004 so 20 years ago we didn’t have launch monitors so you needed a reference and you needed to be able to know how fly you you you fly your short irons how fly uh how far you fly uh each club for reference you need to have different yardages with each Club different settings and the only way to do that is repetition and so um the monitor say you can sit on the Range or or at home and hit into a net and know how far each Club is going I I couldn’t do that so what I had to do is I I first of all I got a yard with a practice facility and I pitched the land at 3% so I could see the ball land because I needed feedback and I would try to hit these targets over and over and over so I’d have every 15 yard increments 30 45 60 7590 105 all the way down all the way up to 175 when I was on tour I’d have to go to another golf course see you had to do it 1,500 times a month so 100 Balls every 3 days was kind of the the the standard I’d go to another Golf Course early in the morning like 8:00 I’d go out on like 15 or 16 before everybody got there and then I would set up these towels which took 15 20 minutes to set up I’m putting them down there I’m lasering trying to get elevation and so forth and I’d hit it the front of the Fairway so I wouldn’t cause a an issue because it’s going to have a big divot spray the size of this table and then I’d fill it with sand and so forth but I do that two or three times a week when I was on the road and then uh and so I had to go find another golf of course now you can just go on the Range hit your hit shots and you have the monitor right there and they’re extremely accurate that quad is extremely accurate and then you can add the radar of either the full swing or the track man and have it track how far the ball goes and and then the quad tells you how far the ball should go yeah now you’ve just learned how far the wind is affecting that shot right you start to see okay if I cut it and I add spin well that eight iron is going to go 23 yard short on a canot win but if I if I hit a u a draw my spin rate is much lower it only affects at eight yards so you start to see in practice like it’s spoon feggy is where I’m going that’s a again that’s a long way of saying yeah it really helps it um now speaking of of of live being here for the long term now the High Flyers you this is a new chapter of your career a new chapter of your life where do you see the High Flyers what’s the future like for the High Flyers I I I don’t know this but I believe in discussions that we’ve had and in our planning and so forth that each team will ultimately have like a home base a home golf course you haven’t been wrong yet and it’s going to take some time it’s going to take some time but we’re already looking into this you know so we want to have world class instruction a world class training facility where you can practice and play all right with all the things that I’ve learned so that your practice uh has a purpose okay so I designed the ASU facility at Arizona State and each state there has a purpose and it has a game that you can play so that you can practice and feel pressure so you can keep score so we have like targets where you can keep score or we create games that will uh allow you to feel pressure those last couple shots oh I’ve got my best score on this particular game or inherently when you’re putting and you know you’re on a 1% 2% 3% 4% slope these things carry over on the golf course so I want to have a world class training facility but I also want physical training and physical therapy so I want everybody to have access to to and then the High Flyers as a team what we want to do is create an opportunity for a lot of young players that don’t have access to that but are very good players that don’t quite make it because they don’t have the the infrastructure to to succeed like when they say it takes a team like it really takes a lot of people to help you like I needed I didn’t start winning Majors till I started working with Dave PS and we started pra I started practicing different right and it was little things like when a shot one shot often determines a major right we saw at the US Open we saw it in my career my first major the Master’s one shot so it’s like where do you over the course of 4 days like how do you pick up a tenth of a shot right well one example is if you have if you chip it to 4 feet you make 90% of your four-f Footers but if you chip it to 3 feet you make 100% so over the course of four days I need to chip every basic chip inside 3 feet and not 4 feet that one foot is a fraction and it makes the difference so you’re trying to um get rid of fractions on on your your training because to be great and to win the majors you you need to do the simple things exceptional yeah like I’ve always hit the ridiculous flop shot and the crazy stuff but I didn’t become really good when Majors until I got better at the simple things and I started I I wouldn’t practice them before because ah it’s too easy or it doesn’t it wouldn’t grab my attention I wanted to go hit the Flop shot or go behind the tree or try to back it up or you know and it wasn’t until I I started hitting the basic shots close and so that type of um instruction that type of practice is uh often times not available to great young players and as a team I want to provide that and I I think every team wants to provide that and then you have to say well what do you get out of it well hopefully they’ll want to be a high flyer and they’ll become great and they’ll transition onto our team and and maybe we have the first opportunity to sign him but if not you can go somewhere else just like in other sports but that’s kind of like the long-term Vision yeah yeah the usj just started I mean we’re the only country in the world that doesn’t only country in the Olympics that plays golf that didn’t have a national program they just started with zambry and uh and Tiffany Joe Mike Juan just started I think it’s incredible and that you’re saying in a microcosm that’s what each team will have throughout their paas yeah and I think that as we become more Regional we becoming where where I think you know Liv has had such success internationally and the more we identify with a certain region the way the Rippers have with Australia yeah uh the more successful we have because here’s the thing about golf is that in if I ask you do you do you watch NFL football yeah yeah you probably watch it do do you play it no how about soccer do you do you yeah watch it yeah do well do you play basketball baseball you know so we watch it but we don’t play it and in golf we’re like the only sport where most everybody who watches also plays we’re not transitioning or transcending out of that element and getting people that don’t play but when you are from a region let’s say we’re the SoCal High Flyers yeah and you you are from Southern California and you want to pull for a team like you’re going to say you’re going to check hey how how the SoCal team do if you’re from Australia like how the Rippers do this week you’re going to have more of an inherent interest and so that’s one of the areas that I think team golf can try to help attract more interest in the viewing at least and maybe that’ll lead to participation is that something you want for High Flyers to be like a SoCal team is that your vision for for the team I think long term it would be helpful if everybody live together practice together travel together would be logistically a lot easier uh rather than be all throughout but we’re so early like this is 10 years down the road um you know golf you the schedule has never been controlled right you every player has the ability to play whatever they want which is why during my 30 years like I never played against all the best players because we all had a different schedule and even the WGC events until until recently last couple of years um a lot of guys would skip those so yeah now that your schedule is controlled it’s much easier cuz we’re all playing the same tournaments if we’re staying living together we can travel together practice together and be on the same the same uh page a lot easier and help lift each other up and make each other better salty balls salty balls you ever have you ever saled your golf balls you have you sp you have yeah how long ago did you start uh well as recently as three years ago I stopped but when they’re bada there was a big difference oh yeah yeah but they would also get out of you know they would be out of round early uh because the center would move and so forth but um Callaway now uh x-ray images each Center core really so when they started doing that every one of my 12 golf balls would come up in a different spot right so if it’s heavy it’s going to drop to the bottom and then you put a dot on The dimple on top that’s just above water I remember that yeah remember people doing so I used to do that and then you know every ball that I’ve gotten from Callaway now is perfectly but what’s interesting is that there’s two manufacturers that I’m I’ll only get two or three that are perfectly centered and and way really so you can get around that and what he does you want it going end over end right so if you you don’t want the heavy part on the side because it will pull on the roll it’s like if you get mud on a ball it will fly opposite but it will roll towards it right because of the extra weight the aerodynamics caus it to go the other way but the the weight causes it to go towards it so no salty balls for you then um all right quit salting the balls um let’s take you all the way back to Centurion back in 2022 I remember for me personally when I got given the job opportunity my first task was to interview you and DJ on the first te I was [ __ ] myself I I you know I I literally grew up idolizing you and and was so inspired by everything you’ve done and have been doing in your career and so when I was told to interview Phil on the first te I was like oh my God this is really happening what was going through your mind as a player on that first te in 2022 in Centurion so I was I was um I was just more reluctant like I I was I was all in I I believed fully like this is the right thing to do but we were all taking so much heat yeah initially and we knew that was going to be the case like we were told exactly what the response was going to be um and yet we we did it anyways because we believe it’s the right thing to do and I think that’s why so many guys on on live are the characters of the game because they have the guts to either play the game differently like Bryson or they have the guts to just go down the road that they believe is right no matter what other people say and so we were taking so much heat that um I wasn’t as outgoing let’s say uh but I was really happy like I was really excited and happy because I knew over time I knew the first two years were going to be rough and here we are just I guess two years in now years and it’s totally different it’s just a whole different feel like we’re having a blast here you know the team aspect we’re having so much fun last night we we went and had all of our team members so not just our players our cat wives physical therapists our instructors everybody we went and had like a little line dancing dinner learn some line dancing and stuff um I I’ve got moves yeah say I mean I think Phil’s got some the one that has the moves like Amy’s got the moves like this was like a cakewalk for her but I had to be focused anyway that we do these fun things together and we have a blast together you know like um and these events all of the things that have been difficult for me that have kind of warned me down over the years on on the PJ T are eliminated and so the experience on live is a 10 out of 10 and that’s why everybody’s having so much fun especially especially myself like it is the greatest experience to come and play and compete a different environment but like early in the week it’s so different uh being able to get your work done and I I just can’t you don’t have fans out until until tournament tournament day your your demands are so much more limited out here people hear guys out here say that and they think it’s lips the fact is every single guy out here has no interest it seems like in I mean he wants to come back to the PJ tour no why would you leave this you want to stay out here as long as you can yeah yeah and it’s like imagine like a Broadway uh practice or recital or whatever you’re you’re working you’re working the lines you’re working the show and if you had fans there watching the recital when you go to or the practice rehearsal I guess it is when you go to the actual show like you don’t really appreciate it and so here we’re able to have our rehearsal our practice get our work done and hopefully put on a great show when when Friday comes yeah yeah um let’s talk about that winless drought back in 2013 and 2018 uh that five years where your last win then was the open right uh how difficult is it as a player I think by then you were have won like 42 events uh and then to have that 5year stretch of of not winning and knowing how competitive you you are as a player how difficult was that and how what was your mindset to get out of that so it was in transitional period for me yeah and here’s why I would win tournaments based on using anxiety anxiousness uh energy to get me fired up and get me motivated like oh yeah I’m going to I’m going to show you you know you want to say that and you get use this anxious energy to propel you right but as you get older and this is where like when I when I stopped gambling along a it was been a long time I found that I wasn’t searching in happiness I’m searching for I was searching for pleasure and now I’m searching for peace so I used to win tournaments you know trying to um have this anxious energy and so forth and now I’m transitioning during that time period over to an A A Time Of Peace So when I won let’s say the PJ I was in this like B what I’ll call it bubble of calm where I was aware of what was going on around me but I had this bubble where I was unaffected uh and I just kind of went about my business and I was in this calm and what I’m able to do now is like sit still um be present in our conversations whereas in the past and be present with the people I care about my mind would be racing like uh oh I’ve got to go you know I’ve got to go make a bed or I’ve got to go uh do go practice this or like my mind would be elsewhere and not present and now I try to be be very present and so during that transition um I didn’t find a way to play my best golf until a little bit later and so now I live in this kind of element of of peace and happiness but uh I haven’t I I I haven’t played as well as I want to yet but I’ve learned how to win a different way right um one of the things that I think is impressive about your commitment to your T to your place in this game is a lot of guys do things in front of the camera and we know the ones who don’t do it when the cameras aren’t there you do a lot of stuff when No cameras are around and you don’t tell anybody about it and the one the one story that comes to mind is Mark Baldwin and that came to to light because Ryan French the guy with Monday Q info brought it to light you wouldn’t going to tell us all but you I mean you kind of take these younger players under your wing you take them to your house you take them to your course you spend days with them and nobody knows about it um where did that where did that come from in you I feel like if you talk about it then it becomes dis disingenuous and the thing about Mark Balwin is he is an incredible talent that he’s one example you do this all the time so I I enjoy it I enjoy watching people achieve their their dreams and and their goals and work hard and so and so um in a case like that particular case this isn’t it gets back to our goal of the High Flyers like not having the right instruction and infrastructure and so forth right he’s one of the most talented players but he’s not been practicing the right things and now that he’s put the time in on the right right things it’s only been 6 months but I expect him to start achieving a lot of his goals because I’ve seen the difference now when when you are playing professional golf or playing any sport you have to learn to love the plateaus and by that I mean you have to learn to really appreciate working hard working hard and not getting any better not seeing the results staying the same but you keep putting in the work and then all of a sudden you get a spike yeah and it’s that Spike that takes you to new heights right but you’ve got to be willing to put in the work and a lot of people get frustrated and they quit and that’s impatience that’s it and he is a hard worker puts in the work and he was just working on the right the the wrong things or not the right things I should say and now that he is like he’s ready to have a spike and I’m looking forward to him you know taking off and I’ve seen a few few of the guys I’ve worked with get to the finals of Q school and now are on the corn fairy tour and they’ve come a long way in the last two or three years and and I enjoy that and it get it gets back to our long-term direction of the High Flyers and what I want to see for them because I’ve seen it firsthand with so many good young players I I love I mean even out here just strictly out here watching you Mentor even the young guys on your team you know whether last year it was James P P the riot uh this year in Centurion and he spent a half hour on the r with TK what was he 16 or 17 at the time yeah he’s he’s a talent yeah and you also spent a time with Caleb serat who’s not even on your team and really helping him and mentoring him it’s something that people don’t see and we do and and uncomfortable as hell no but I’m just saying tell he collected right to Baldwin away from himself okay well let’s talk about your first PJ toob when you were 20 years old as an i c in the event I CAD in that Mike Springer finished like or something he was a heck of a player too yeah yeah he won twice one year won the Atlanta classic and uh uh Greensboro didn’t he and he won three times pj2 three or four yeah but he won twice in a year and had a great had a great year then one later a few years later yeah I was there I watched him on that Cony store that’s awesome yeah that was in Tucson uh yeah you were 20 years old now if someone told you you would win 56 more professional events including six major championships would you what would you have said if some that’s it I I had high expectations um I’ve probably accomplished about what I was expecting or hoping but I always had the dream of winning the Grand Slam in this in a single year I never accomplished that um I always had dream of like winning them all I haven’t won the US Open yet and I came close of to like the tiger slam where we owned all four uh I had won the PJ 05 the master was an ‘ 06 probably should have won the 06 Uso open a wing foot um some people say yeah and and looking back on that one people talk about the drive well I hit two drives in the Fairway that that final round yeah I wasn’t going to hit that Fairway it was the hardest freaking Fairway to hit and I’m averaging four Fairways a day yeah but my short game was the best that’s ever been in my career I got up and down on some of these shots like it was the best week my short game has ever been so the second shot was off a perfect lie over by the corporate tense oh yeah all I had to do was cut a three iron around these trees and I started it not far enough right I started a foot or a yard and it just nicked the limbs I mean it missed it by a foot and if I just start it far enough right my ball will be up by the green and I’m probably going to get that up and down if it’s not on the green like so that was where I lost it not the drive like I figured okay why would I hit forward I know I’m not going to hit the Fairway like let’s get it down there to where I have a chance to like get it by the green and get up and down yeah the original decade system yeah and if and if you look at like Bryson yeah yeah he did the same thing he played Pinehurst you know you didn’t have that bad rough as long as he hits it if you get it down there and he’s hitting wedges into a lot of these holes I know that if he gets he’s getting a decent lie where you can get the club on eight out of 10 times out of the stuff like it’s still not easy but so he’s hitting it so far he’s just playing it differently he’s like okay well if I hit three-wood I’m not guaranteed a fairway so why wouldn’t I want to be another 35 yards closer to the green you know and I and I totally agree with that right I got one last question for you and then I know you’ll have some more um I did a recent podcast in in Houston I think he saw some Snippets of it with a guy named will Kung great questions he asked nothing was out of bounds and he asked me what will Phil Nicholson’s what will be his flowers at his funeral his way of saying his legacy what will your legacy be when when all this said and done what do you think I mean I think hopefully live golf and helping get the game to a younger crowd helping get the game to younger players and giving them infrastructure to to become great um helping to grow the game on a global basis like all the things that live golf is doing like I feel very connected to the um Su think be your lasting Legacy I I sure hope so because uh it wasn’t an option like like elevated events and equity in the tour wasn’t an option for the guys that came to live and so um the fact that you know we are invested and involved and and integrated into the success of Live And I’m happy for the guys on the tour that they now have all that stuff CU they should but where we’re at um we’re we’re attracting a different crowd and we’re we’re attracting a global crowd yeah and that’s critical to the long-term success of the game and it’s something that the the the old model of the tour would never transcend into because you couldn’t get all the guys to go travel the world and play over there and and again attract players that don’t don’t play the game of golf to watch and so uh I think live golf and is is doing that and I’m hopeful that my connection with Liv and hopefully the success of Liv will be uh what I’m known for yeah um I’ve just been uh my queued to ask the fun question so I’m you I’m going to I’m going to go to my I’m going to go with faway to love I’m going to go Fairway to love [ __ ] sake uh we do this thing well I do this thing on the podcast where I call fair to love I get all of our golfers talking about the Romantic side of their lives and and and sharing the insight into how uh you know how you met your wife who talk to who give us a scoop B come on Fair the love so I I’ve got I’ve got the greatest partner in the world I I just I have the I mean Amy is the best partner and you know she is she has loved me through my best self and she’s loved me through my worst self and we’re um really enjoying this stage in life together as we’ve gotten closer and we’re dating again with our kids being out of the house and so forth but I did not have a lot of game back in the day and so I met her I first met Amy um I had gone to a Guns and Roses concert my goodness Guns and Roses so she lived she lived above a friend of mine Kea Barbara who’s the the one of the main guys that Taylor Made he’s out he’s a great guy the best of what he does and she lived above him and he was good friends we were both knew Lance Seymour who was the brother of Stephanie Seymour the supermodel dating Axel Rose and so we had passes to go to this concert so we go to Phoenix International Raceway and we’re at this concert W well at midnight when we were trying to leave there was a flash flood and a lot of these uh air the road got wiped away and somebody got caught up in the in the water and so there was this big look of you know um hunt to try to find them and the cars didn’t move so now it’s 6:30 in the morning and we you we’re sitting in this car for 6 and2 hours and I pull in to our apartment complex at 7:25 and Amy is walking down to go to her 740 class and Keith Keith um introduced me to her and you know she she was so stunning that I I I couldn’t really talk much you know it’s like I just like I said I didn’t have any game and I ran into her a couple months later at the Phoenix Open and she was a Phoenix Suns dancer and they were putting on this Special Olympics putting contest I ran into her was a dancer a Sun Dancer yeah for a number years and there the team was phenomenal they used to travel like with the USA olympic team and the Dream Team all that stuff uh but she ended up um and I remembered that we had met so we were got to talking and I was able to uh take her on a date and it was at a time where it was early in my career and um she still had 2 years left of college and we weren’t looking for a relationship but when it’s the right person and it clicks like it just clicks and so we wanted to just be together and and um you had been the best thing in my life you had more you had you had more game than you’re giving yourself credit for because you ask her out she went on a date you guys went on a date D you went on a date with a Phoenix Sun’s dancer for crying out loud that’s Aiming High right there yeah I had oh I love it see don’t you laugh a to Heaven it’s the best oh it’s the greatest um so I know you you told me in hang time when I I you you spent some time with me in Miami uh in 2023 and you said that if you would have have someone play you in a movie it would be Hugh Grant yeah it was a great moment he’s got game he’s got game he’s got a lot of game um he’s a handsome guy apparently right I think so yeah uh which aspect which aspect of your life or your career uh would you say you want 100% included in that movie like to show in that movie uh I think resilience is kind of kind of the thing that um most everybody has to go through especially myself like I had a lot of failures a lot of uh missteps um I was 33 before I won a major and I had been out on tour I’d won it 20 so 13 years I’d won a bunch of tournaments I think I had won I want to say over 20 tournaments by then so I was a lifetime member of the tour as soon as you had 15 15 then you needed 15 years of service years of service in 20 wins I hadn’t been on tour for 15 years but I had enough to be a lifetime member I I believe and yet I had not won a major and so the resilience of coming close and falling short coming close falling short and then using failure as a motivator to work harder uh to come through and and do it was uh was a big thing for me and then I had some great instructors I had you know Rick Smith back when I was a junior golfer Dean ryth but Rick Smith and uh Butch Haron and now Andrew gson and Dave pels was Dave pels was really instrument because now we have a lot of statistician guys out on tour that tell you you know how to play certain holes and aim away here and U practice this and so a lot of people are helping guys practice more efficiently Wells help me he was the first he he was the first actual brought it broke it down as a science game and so he conveyed to me a lot of little tidbits on how to get better I’ll give you one one example I was struggling with Bunker play one year I was like 120th and he said okay you’re Bunker play size like we’ve got to get it better youth I was like 120th one year it was like 03 it was like it was the year that 03 was the first year I didn’t win yeah uh I didn’t play the tour I won in 1991 and then I didn’t play’ 92 I turned Pro in the summer and then 93 I won twice and I won every year until 2003 so I’m like determined to get better and he said well you know here’s one area that you’re pathetic is your bunker play I’m like well no I’m a pretty good bunker player well you’re not practicing right he says what’s the longest what’s the average bunker shot distance on the PJ toour like what’s your average bunker shot I don’t know 10 yards really 10 yards like yeah because you’re a good player you’re not going to be hitting it 25 yards offline in a bunker like you’re going to go at a pin he just missed you you got a 10 yard shot most every bunker shot I have between eight and 13 yards let’s say so he says you’ve got to practice 10 yard bunker shots okay so he says the record is seven in a row inside a club Lan wow Tom Kite seven in a row it’s it’s now 32 okay oh no no no no so what it does is it shows my like my resilience so I went from 120 whatever to third really because I sat there and I practiced 10 yard bunker shots over and over until I got them all inside 3 ft wow reading the LIE is this one going to come out with a little more run trying to get them all by the hole and pels was present when I did it so this is legit like I had a witness and it was pels uh but the new record’s 32 and I sat there and did it over and over and that resilience um is one of the things that is the thing I probably want you know my career but I needed help to get there I needed help to to overcome my some of these things takes a village doesn’t it uh for a success story no I I I would watch that movie and I’m excited hopefully someone will write it come on guys one of you guys can do it right part it yeah um all right final question for me um you been playing professional golf now for over 30 years and with everything that you know and have experienced everything that you’ve gone through like you said resilience in your career if you could write a letter to your young yourself what would it say oh um I would go back to what we talked about earlier and and and say that happiness is peace happiness isn’t uh short moments of pleasure and it goes back to you know adrenaline and need whether it’s gambling or whether it’s you know jumping out of an airplane or whether it’s bungee jumping whatever like um the pleasure in life is more happiness is peace rather than short spurts of of pleasure and see so I think that that would be um the one thing that I would say to myself on the other hand it’s it’s a motivator on why a lot of guys have been successful because it’s never enough I remember I had won the British Open and I I bring the jug to a dinner at AT&T and Nick falo’s there and we’re all drinking out of The Jug and Nick drank out of The Jug and he said that’s the first time I drank out of The Jug what he won three yeah he says I would win I would I would take that night I’d have a drink or whatever I would like celebrate I would put it back in the case I’d go back to the range on Monday morning and so he was constantly searching for more he constantly wanted more and that’s a great drive driving and motivating factor but you don’t find peace right you don’t find happiness and so I would say that there’s ways to win there’s ways to be driven while also being calm and peaceful inside well back in those days F couldn’t find anybody to have a drink with him I’m not going there like we made it this whole thing without much controversy and then here you come along and of All Odds between the three of us it’s you her I get me I get but Jerry you know I I funny you say that because I I just watched the documentary on tyer and and that was kind of what Stevie Williams said you know he would win a major and then would never celebrate it you just think about the next one and the next one and the next one and he obviously had a great career but you know um and when you’re not when you’re not winning you start to go yeah down other paths and you got to find that in peace and you can still be driven yeah teaching a young educating a young younger version of yourself about peace is it’s impossible yeah I we your kids do you think they you think your kids know the value of Peace versus what you’re talking about they’re going to know it sooner than I did yeah yeah but as a young person it’s not what motivates you at all I don’t think I don’t know true yeah you’ll be a peaceful Grandpa someday that’d be nice don’t call Grandpa he’s not he just had a birthday I’m the grandpa birthday way the hell older than him so yeah happy birthday yeah happy birthday well Phil thank you so much that was a pleasure as always very insightful we love having a chat with you so thanks for your time thanks for having me grandpa doesn’t sound right right now no that’s what I’m saying doesn’t sound right for him don’t call him Grandpa he he will he’s in the best shap he ever I would love to have grandkids yeah Amy would probably yeah I I get it and my age like it would be hard having little ones but when you can just pass them off like no but you’re in the best shape you’ve ever been so this is a great time for you to have little ones how about mcginness he’s having another kid like today mcginness John mcginness his wife they had one a couple years ago Jack 3 years and he’s got another one on the way he’s 61 years old oh wow good for him nuts that’s nuts by the way we need to see that video of you line dancing I think that needs to that needs to go out on your social media along with the pros the quite strong I would say strong my moves yeah but Amy would how would she she would agree I’m gonna ask I’m going ask the rest of your teammates after this thanks for your time dud thank you yeah awesome thanks for having me YouTube thanks Phil that was cool spending time with Phil oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I thought you were talking about your performance no no this is when we’re doing the outro the out we’re reacting to the interview now oh pH I mean thing is he has a pretty tight schedule yeah he he would have if it were up to him he would he’d be sitting here till dark talking to us no he’s um he’s always been always been and always have been very generous with this time yes very much more more generous Than People yeah he always has been and even when there were more demands on there’s far fewer demands on live like he alluded because L Monday Tuesday Wednesday and th as ites it easier forers that’s one of many things they love about it but he is he’s always been generous with his time and I he wouldn’t really talk about his role in the one question that I asked about uh the younger players that he spends time with he gives he brings them to his house he they stay with him they play yeah he was uncomfortable talking about that it’s one of those things he does behind the scenes that nobody knows about yeah I know and even watching him out here like I said in an interview just watching him even spending time on the chipping green by the way it’s hot out here right he’s I mean he’s adopted Caleb Strat not even on his team yeah yeah and Ogle tree and James Patt and all these younger players that he’s kind of Taken under his own wing and and spend time with them it’s really cool by the way if you told me uh about 20 years ago that this would happen yeah uh with Phil I would you’re you’re you’re funny 20 years ago you were like not even a teenager but that’s when what what no I was definitely a teenager by then okay how old are you I was 15 I was 16 actually oh wow um just revealed my age but that’s all right um but yeah if you told me then that this scenario would happen I would I would say that that’s a really funny joke um so that was really cool experience I mean watching him grow up the Rivalry between him and tiger um all the great battles between them two you know I mean it inspired me to play and and watching him win um I remember like it was yesterday watching him when was it 1990 Tucson open Tucson open yeah maybe maybe it was even a year earlier than that um yeah it was an amateur first PJ tour win yeah that was I didn’t watch that cuz I was only two um uh but I’m sure that would have been a very very very cool experience I was a bartender back then yeah and a lot of the a lot of the guys who I knew came to the bar cuz uh that were playing in the event actually that was back before guys went to gyms right right um anyways I’m very excited for this week ahead uh in Nashville um it’s going to be fun it’s going to be a lot of fun we’ve already had a lot of fun here in Nashville and we’re going to have more fun I’m excited for Dan and Shay Saturday I’ll be there Morgan wallen’s place last night was phenomenal I the name of it just Morgan wallen’s place downtown and uh wait you got to do our social reminder the snap thingy and the Tic Tac code thing um if you like this podcast you can why would you huh and why wouldn’t you H sure if you like this podcast you can find us on uh YouTube channel we’re now back on the live golf YouTube channel uh but we still have our very own social channels at fth Liv golf we’re on Tik talk Instagram and the X do follow us and if you like it please do share it with your friends uh let them know this is happening uh if you don’t like it share with your friends anyway let them make the decisions uh whether they like it or not um but anyway all right good fun good fun I’m excited it’s going to be a great week peace