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Just an Average Golfer giving unbiased opinions on all things golf, product tests, Golf travel vlogs and golf news!
so here’s the thing I’ve just been docked seven shots on three rounds of golf and I didn’t even break part in two of those three rounds can someone please tell me what’s going on and is the World handicap system broken I’m really concerned as to what kind of impact this is having on both golf clubs and golfers alike because what I am learning very very quickly is there is a lot of negativity towards this new whhs system and I’m really to understand how it works and how it’s had such an impact on my own personal situation but let me give some context so I’ve been playing golf for over 35 years and during that time a lowest handicap I’ve ever been was 5.3 and that was over 15 years ago and for the past two years I’ve not been a member of any golf club and as such have not entered any scorecards and 3 weeks ago I became a member here at holwell golf club and I transferred my 8.6 handicap was from my CDH number from the previous Club I was a member and since that day I’ve entered three competitions they were 12 hole comps off yellow T’s stable fo points and my handicap grab ball sit down has gone from a staggering 8.6 to 1.3 yeah you heard that right 1.3 what in God’s name is going on I mean let’s be perfectly honest me saying I play off 1.3 is as ridiculous as RAM saying he went to live golf as a lifestyle choice so the question is how did it happen well let’s start off with the first two score cards I entered with which were off my handicap of 8.6 I scored 22 points therefore I didn’t even break par off of 8.6 and uh I soon found out that the new system decided to dock me an immediate three shots because after those two rounds I was cut to 5.3 I have to admit at that point I was slightly taken back the last thing I was expecting to see was a handicap deduction at a time when I didn’t even break par so we start off by somebody trying to explain to me why the system would do that to me not break par off 8.6 cut to 5.3 that’s it but it was the next bit of news that was uh well a rather strange blow because the following Thursday I entered again my uh third 12 hole stableford off of the yellows this time playing off 5.3 and I had a bit of a blind there I shot level par gross which is fantastic and uh due to the fact that I got up and down a few times rolled in a few puts and I had a bit of a like I said that’s a bit of a round but anyway I awoke the following day to a new handicap 1.3 which is where I am right now and where I’m so confused now in old money and as I always understood it at 5.3 and is what was an old C one player that 5 under par if you like would have got me deducted half a shot instead I lost another four and right now my handicap sits at 1.3 and I’m absolutely baffled now after the fun and game subsided and everybody had a pretty good laugh because let’s be honest I know that I should never be a one- handicap golfer and many of you have watched the channel for quite some time would also agree so the big question is why was I deducted so much and uh I then started to understand that perhaps golfers weren’t very happy with this whs system and I wanted to speak to somebody from the club who uh very much is the face of the competitions the man who deals with all these inquiries it is of course the head professional Lewis Johnson and get his take and some understanding as to what exactly is going on it’s good it’s amazing yeah is it yeah well I’m not interested in that me cuz what I am interested in is your opinion on This World handicap system because as you know I’m a bit Bamboozled and I’m battered so yeah I it’s h i mean when you ask for my opinion you know it’s it’s it’s not doing the game any good at all I just can’t so your that’s your first reaction cuz I’ve been out of the game so I don’t really know but your first reaction is think you you the reason you asked my opinion really is because I’m I’m in it you know I’m in IT people come in people come in they get the score card off me I print the scorecards out um and it is what’s me handicap yeah yeah and I think how we got to the stage where nobody knows their own so people confused it’s making it’s making people more confused it’s detaching people from like you know the old system they they felt as though they had control where now people are just they’re relying on some algorithm and I know the calculations I know it I you know I give them out but with from a golfer’s point of view I can see their frustration but from my point of view I’m like sometimes you just go well I don’t know why your handicaps done that no I don’t know and then you know obviously you you apply logic and then and then it it doesn’t no you know it really it’s really frustrating and I don’t think it’s inclusive you know there’s there’s loads of other points you know lower handicap golfers really feel detached from it and stuff as well is it having a negative impact on PE cuz my thought process at the minute as you know what’s happened to me I’m think what what’s the point of me going I mean I’ve I’ve had occasions where you you get low handicap players uh in in a sort of little bracket there sort of single figures I’d say and then you get your your higher handicap players yeah uh let’s say I mean these lads some of these Lads they’ve been playing 40 years yeah they they’ve got like a I don’t know like a 37 handicap now they’re embarrassed they don’t want that 37 handicap you know there used to be a Max handicap and then that and you tried to get better and then your low Lads they’re not entering Knockouts they they’re sort of selectively you know not playing in certain comps because they go well you know 36 to 39 points in a stf would be a good now it’s 45 points as score it’s just ludicrous I I don’t know where um I don’t know how we’ve got there I I’ve been again all I’ve been doing is reading online and sort of General response to people do you think is it is it am I right in saying the lower handicap players seem to be affected more than the higher or was that wrong um I don’t know maybe they more I feel as though maybe they are yeah um and then the other one would be you know the the same would applied to the lower handicap Lads is yes there’s algorithms and yes there’s things that uh um you know there’s it’s obviously based on a formula and averages and stuff but I don’t think anyone enjoys this new system I don’t think anyone really feels that they’ve got control and and a firm understanding of what they’re doing um I don’t really want to go down this route though but in simp in simple terms what was what was wrong with the old system was that broke was it that’s it I I just got this image of someone somewhere setting an office justifying their own job going I like this new idea brilliant you I’ve got all these calculations and all these Excel spreadsheets but in reality when Lads walk into the Pro Shop yeah there’s it’s not as good simple yeah so speaking to Lewis he like many others seems to be uh equally Bamboozled by it and uh I’m struggling to find out what the kind of positives are and why this change was needed but it in place and what I’d like to understand is I mean My overall understanding is that until I’ve got sort of maybe 20 scorecards in and we start to get an average then maybe I will return to a position in which I feel is probably more uh realistic than where I am right now so that’s what I’ll continue to do and obviously I’ll ad by the rules and if that’s how the system works now that’s how it works but I want to hear from you I want your experiences what are you finding um like I said everything I’ve read online and whether that be uh forums and uh social media they just seems to be a whole lot of negativity that surrounds this system and the point that I worry about nobody really seems to understand it there doesn’t seem to be any logic or explanation that can be applied to understand why your handicap is what it is and for me I really just want to uh yeah I just want to get to a situation whereby I’m not turning up on a first T and uh telling my playing partner I play off one and then uh toping one down the Fairway maybe it’s not that bad but everybody knows I’m the one handicap golfer right give me your feedback down below short and sweet see you soon
43 Comments
The margin for performance relative to handicap is skewed and that’s the bit that no one seems to be able to articulate.
First off, give the system a chance – Get 20 cards in and it works.*
* BUT there is a real gripe with competitions and you’re hinting at it. Lower handicappers have a much lower ceiling to “perform well” when based on strokes / stableford points compared to a high handicapper.
A 3 shooting 1 under is a fantastic days golf, but is still only 40 points, whereas a 28 just needs to be slightly improved off the tee that day and can shoot 22 over for 42 points.
Your index is calculated on best 8 out of last 20.
It will eventually sort itself out, give it time.
Dont confuse daily handicap with index.
Your index might be 8.0 but off yellow tees you are off 1.0.
What is your daily cap off back tees.?
Funny how so many people, including yourself, refer to their index as their handicap. They’re two different things. Your index is just a number used to calculate your handicap and that handicap will change depending on the course difficulty. 😊
I never fail to be surprised how many golfers, who have played for years, complain that the new system is worse than the old. From my own personal experience the old system dropped me 4.6 shots when I had the round of my life. The old system then required that I play 46 qualifiers my handicap back to where it had been for years. The new system, is based on your average scoring not an exceptional score! That must be better.
The WHS is a charter for bandits. Most decent players at my club can't live with the 24 plus handicappers in comps because they fiddle their social cards.
You’re letting yourself down mate, quit moaning. It settles down when you’ve got 20+ cards. Many people I play with understand the system.
The main idea was to bring the uk into the world system. The main advantage over the old system is that it allows for players in poor form to get their handicap up. On the old system it would take 10 bad rounds just to get 1 shot back. The disadvantage of this system seems is the handicap is so volatile you never know what your handicap is from one day to the next. Also having a course handicap and a playing handicap (95%) is an unnecessary step.
Seems UK is a bit confused and as a scandinavian I am confiused why you are confused. I like WHS, I wrote a long one on your last video.
But when we switched in 2020, the rounds all the way back to 2017 would be counted to your best 8 out of the last 20 rounds. Is that not done in the UK, because in my mind you both play enough that you have a good backlog of rounds which would count and give you a good stable avererage. It will probably be slighly lower than the old system due to being your better 8 rounds average which count to the HCP, so how you play on a good day, not taking in those shite days in the average.
I’m sure part of the issue is you’re only handing in cards for 12 holes which obviously is not a full round. We’ve now had this system in Australia for a few years and I’m not aware of these issues. Once 20 rounds are submitted the best 8 are considered. I think it works fairly when playing courses with different slope ratings as the handicap self adjusts to either give you strokes or take away. To be fair, maybe it’s different from your part of the world and I don’t profess to understand your issues exactly. I’ve watched your content for a few years and I’ve never understood how you consider yourself a mid handicapper. For me, that’s a golfer in the range of 12 – 18. Thought provoking content though 👍🇦🇺
Low handicap players at my club are not entering club comps anymore, even young players, they just play casual mostly, sad really
Put aside the challenge low handicap players have of winning club competitions, someone that has been cut that much like yourself is outrageous. Besides anything else, you haven’t earned it. To get to a 9 is an enormous achievement. Golf is bloody hard. But to be hovering at the 1’s you are an elite player in the world of club golf. Something is very wrong here. Algorithms have been in the news here in the UK with this tragedy over the Post Master Scandal. It seems the algorithm once again has fucked up.
I've recently been made aware my unlucky number is 3, I guess the 3 iron is coming out of the bag then.
The system is basic, albeit that under the WHS your handicap is very much a reflection of your best golf, not your average golf, which makes scoring to your handicap every week more difficult … but the same system now applies to everyone, so just get your 20 cards in, instead of moaning about what you were off 2 years ago, blah blah blah … no one gives a toss
I'm confused, why do you and your friend find it so confusing, difficult and unfair? It's not at all complicated and IMO it fairly reflects a player's ability over recent months. In any case, when they switched over to WHS here in Italy, for interest I continued tracking my hcp with the old system and they were quite similar. Also, this video and another youtuber seemed to complain a lot that low handicappers get a raw deal. How? We all know that high handicappers are more likely to have wild scores and come out with 40+ stableford points, this has always been the case. Don't you have categories in the UK so that low handicappers are only in competition with the other low handicappers? Also, really the pleasure in golf is surely in getting a low handicap, and not winning tournaments with inflated handicaps.
The system is fine, it works and is very simple to understand. Just play golf, enter your scores and let the system do it's work. Anyway, the idea is to play well and lower your handicap, not to be a bandit and keep ones handicap artificially high.
Also, stop entering 12 hole results, as the WHS only calculates on 9 hole and 18 hole scores. If you keep entering 12 hole scores, you really can't expect the system to work correctly.
I'm not sure what all of this shade on WHS is about. Enter 20 scores and then let's talk. Could it be that the old system poorly reflected a golfer's potential and the WHS actually does? In the end, its just a number and if everyone follows the process, record ALL SCORES, it should all come out in the wash. Is playing off of 4 instead of 6 a travesty, when everyone else "suffers" too?
I do think the courses in UK & Ireland will need to get some work done on the slope and ratings. I played several courses last year in Ireland that just used 113 for slope! No way, I would say they were more like 130.
Its possible higher handicapper is being impacted more, because the max score is a net double, resulting in lower differential.
As stated by others comps must be "flighted". A 2 hdcp has very little chance against a group of 10's, much less 28 handicappers.
The system works well… It only sucks at the beginning especially someone playing 12 holes 🙄🤯, Play proper 18 holes and have 20 rounds and you’ll see…
For the life of me I can’t understand what’s so hard about calculating an average of your best 8 of your last 20 rounds. It’s simple
You have to enter 20 scores, until then you don’t have a real handicap
Man shoots miles under handicap and is surprised when handicap is cut!!!
We have got two players there. One is complaining that his handicap is cut from 8.5 because he shot level par and one complaining about people that can shoot under their handicap! You could not make golfers up
Good video Andy. There's a lot of support for the WHS in the comments. It would be interesting to know if there's much support for it from low hcp golfers. The pro in your video suggested the lowest golfers don't want to enter club competitions now where you've got to shoot 43 to 45 points every comp. in order to have a chance. At our club we've set up a single hcp weekly group, run it as a qualifying competition and playing to your hcp or one or two shots better means you'll likely win. No more moaning about bandits and 45 pts!
It is a good system but I get that sometimes people struggle with it, a couple of things to point out
1. It is obvious that no round history has been brought across with your old handicap. To the WHS system, it sees your 8 odd handcap as a place holder until you submit some rounds, now I am not sure if this is a UK thing or whether the history was suppose to be brought across from the old system, you could take that up with your club/association as the impact to your handicap wouldn't have been as severe if you had 20 rounds of history in the system.
The idea being that a player should beat their handicap about 1 in every 5 rounds (ie 4 rounds of 20 below the handicap) so it takes an average of the best 8 rounds across your last 20.
2. Because you have no round history the handicap system will treat you as a completely new player. It will ignore the old 8 handicap and start again as soon as you submit your first card. And the thing with WHS is that it takes a very cautious approach to new players. As others have pointed out for the first few rounds it ONLY takes into account your best round and then further adds another reduction on top of that.
3. For your first two rounds you scored around +7.3 once we round up to 18 Holes and apply the local course ratings, but as its only your first two rounds it takes your best one (7.3) and then applys a 2 stroke reduction, giving you a 5.3 General Handicap (If you shot 20 rounds with extactly this score your General Handicap would be 7.3)
4. Then you went out and shot par! (Hardly a 8 handicaper are you). Once we round up to 18 holes (Because you only played 12 it applys some logic based on you handicap of 5.3 to fill in the remaining 6 rounds) and apply local course ratings the system allocates that as +3.3 but again for only 3 cards it only takes your lowest score and applies a 2 stroke reduction so we end up with a 1.3 handicap.
Now you could argue this is too cautious and disadvantages and discourages people entering the WHS system because 1 good round early gives you a really low handicap but it is designed to protect clubs and members from people joining and holding high handicaps and dominating comps in their first few rounds. It is tough early and will ease out as you submit more cards. Over time as you submit more cards if your par round was truly a once off its imapct will soften and your handicap will ease out.
For instance lets say for the next three rounds you do score +8. You now have +3.3, +7.3, +7.3, +8, +8, +8
Because you still have less than 20 we have to apply the less than 20 table (others have posted this so will not post again) and you can see for 6 rounds you will get the average of your lowest 2 plus -1 reduction so (((+3.3 + +7.3) /2) – 1) = +4.3 You have already eased out 3 shots. Now of course shoot another Par round instead of one fo those +8 then your lowest two would be ((((+3.3 + +3.3) /2) – 1) = +2.3
As others have said once your closer to 20 cards the handicap will be more accurate (once you get past 15 cards imo)
The trouble with this system is that there are too many club golfers who know how to manipulate the system, unlike the majority who get smashed when you have 1 or 2 good rounds, but then it takes forever to get back to a more accurate level for your ability.
I’m genuinely surprised that this is news to you Andy, given you’re a golf nut. When it came in there were articles in the top magazines to educate on how it works. I think rating courses absolutely makes sense as opposed to playing off the same handicap at an easy course compared to one that is clearly much more difficult. The best 8 scores from 20 rounds makes sense too, this is reduced with down to just 1 card or just a few cards which is why in your case you dropped to 1.3 based on your best card from the 3 rounds. It has made it harder for single figure handicappers to win, and that can’t be right. I don’t like this year’s change which applies the course rating to the handicap you play off at any course. Take Wirral for instance, it’s a par 68, but the course rating is 64.6, so you lose the extra shots. I think the slope rating of a course is enough to differentiate between the difficulty of the courses. I also accept that it has confused many golfers, but the info is out there. It’s here to stay, but I expect more adjustments.
The problem is that you never entered any cards the last 2 years and then entered 3 rounds that were low to your actual index. Keep playing and entering scores and it will adjust your index over time.
The UK & the USA FAILED to implement the WHS the way it was intended. The rest of the world got it right and has been using it without issue since 1 January 2020. The USGA and R&A's claim that new hcp rules are coming is just their way of trying to disgusie the fact that they got it wrong as those alleged new rules have been in effect everywhere else golf is played in the world. Just be aware that when plaing 12 hole comps, the WHS ONLY looks at the completed 9 holes and that score sits and waits for another 9 hole score to be submitted before it should be used for a hcp adjustment. Your golf club have acted contrary to teh WHS on 2 occasions. They should not have allowed you to transfer your old hcp as it was more than 12 months since you'd submitted a score card anywhere for hcp purposes AND they should not have revised your hcp until after your 2nd 9 hole score had been received. S oas your 2 best scratch scores were 34 & 34 I believe your 1.3 hcp is correct based on the formula for calculating your hcp index.
There's one huge thing that none of those commenting have mentioned, and it is one of the main reasons that golf clubs MUST install the WHS on computers instead of the old manual way of revising handicaps, and that is the computer software is designed to not only look at your course & slope rating etc, but it also takes into account teh weather conditions on the day at your course and surrounding courses to calculate a projected score for each hcp for the day. So there's a lot more than just an algorithm/formula to be considered. e.g. in Australia they use a computer programme called Golf Link to do all the calculations. and every golf club that is affiliated with teh AGU (Australian Golf Union)must have this software. Even social gold clubs/groups can register their members in the system so they can have an official AGU handicap index.
I've been playing golf since 1973 and teh WHS is without a doubt the most accurate handicap system I've played under. You will also find this to be true once it is implemented correctly in the UK.
Early doors, it’s a pig. Dropped me 9 shots, but I’ve only put 5 cards in. 10 to 0.6 😳😭🤦🏻♂️
Early doors, it’s a pig. Dropped me 7 shots, but I’ve only put 5 cards in, so it only takes your best round. Not until 6 cards does it take average of best 2 cards. Do I dropped from 10 to 0.6 🤷🏻♂️😭🤦🏻♂️
We are insane to take notice of this imbeciles that are ruining everything in this world. Every sport a little firm pops up to control it all. GOLF and TABLE TENNIS and to play both I was required to pay out a subscription. To play the game of Table tennis in a League i had to pay a firm £12 when I played and hit a little ball over a net in a League. . I questioned why I had to do that? Jacked it in. I would not pay. F them all.
Its like tne ball roll back, R&A are a law to themselves , when the ball rollback kicks in, im off! To try and put handicap golfers in the same class as pros its ridiculously. As with driver cor and grooves on irons. Its all money motivated and i think the manufacturing giants have the R&A and the USGA in their pocket. Rant over…
hI Andy bring back old system you knew exactly were you stood , you were either under par for the course or in the buffer zone anything over wasnt so bad
This is just a stupid video. Moral of the story….DO NOT play 12 hole comps on easy courses!!!!!!!!!
You are playing way under your ‘par’. It’s not difficult to understand: if you’re shorting 4 under (22 points) you’re getting a cut….
Imho they should make every game a score card game. Then your current form is always closer to your HC. What the pro is on about baffles me: old stern is so easy to cheat, new system isn’t.
Just don't rename the channel Andy 🙂
Play golf for the enjoyment, if happen to play well even better, we all know the glory hunters at our local clubs.
I gave up putting cards in a long time ago. I can't compete at my present handicap of 13, so what's the point? I just enjoy casual golf with my mates. The system is too complicated, and as you said, nobody understands it. At the beginning of the year my handicap, and lots of others, was cut by 2 shots with no explanation and no cards submitted. It's just stupid.
I think there is a fair amount of self interest from the golf unions because the new system requires so much more maintenance and administration. It keeps people in a job. It’s not a popular system.
Andy I think this system has been introduced to make golf more inclusive, in that you can gain a handicap without being a member of a club. The main aim is to extend the game further. However, I like you believe it has had a negative effect. This is especially the case for lower handicap golfers. Also the system is confusing. You have your WHS then the course handicap and then for some it’s 95% of that in comps or not when playing friendlies. Then you have the whole issue of people putting in general play cards in order to manipulate their handicap. In the old days this practice was banned for the old cat 1 golfers. This is having the result of genuine golfers being balloted out of comps …………as you said the old system wasn’t broke so why fix it?
You can't call yourself "The average golfer"anymore.
If you were playing 18 holes each time it may show a truer reflection of your game.
At home if we play a 9 hole comp it is easier to get cut. Just a thought. Good luck.
Totally agree, I’m newish to golf and new to the handicap system and so far put in 9 cards averaging 88 per round. My whs scores says 12.2 but surely that’s not correct? All rounds played on par 71 bar 1 round (par 72) so shouldn’t I be around a 17 handicap ??