Justin Harrison spins an epic World Cup yarn and the Super Semis are coming in hot | ARP

2:00 Justin Harrison on the importance of Players’ Associations
3:25 Constructive conflict
4:25 What does “Goog” mean
5:50 Throwing his RWC medal into the harbour
11:30 The Brumbies’ chances against the Blues
21:40 Rob Valetini
25:15 Akira Ioane’s legacy
30:00 The Blues without Tuipulotu
36:25 50/22s of kickoffs?
39:00 Can the Chiefs upset the Canes?
43:10 Is Damian McKenzie a lock for the ABs at 10?
48:35 How what tactics can earn the Chiefs a semifinal win?

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[Music] hey jod and welcome again to the AL or rugby pot as we head into the semi-finals of Super Rugby into two very big games and to a point really interesting games cuz these could actually go either way I mean it’s been a good Super Rugby season but we’re heading into these and the home teams aren’t necessarily assu after what happened on the weekend so we’ll get into a big time in the next hour or so with the blues and the canes see whether they can defend home territory against the brumes and the Chiefs throughout the afternoon we’ll talk a little bit about scrums a little bit about Aussie rugby with our guest Justin Harrison and of course next to me I have James Parsons he’s turned up in his Blues kit today oh and blues kit I sent a message uh out to BS in the Blues seeing if I could get a you know game Jersey since we’ve got a Bry Legend on today and Justin Harrison I really just wanted to start the bent yeah well you you haven’t G me heads up there I noticed that they have uh they’ve given you a larg man size I would expect from your is that is that the body fit one or the supporters I tell you what it was so tight and and it says 6xl on it which is ridiculous I don’t I don’t think I don’t know how Patty fits into it but it’s great for the ego goog you know that yeah well I’m sure I’m sure you’re going to need someone to help you get out of it by [Laughter] the you the Blu has looked after me very well yeah very nice so en joining us in the screen Justin Harrison of course plenty of games for the brumes over the years 70 odd games for the Blum bees back in the day few for the tars as well we’ll probably talk a little bit about the tars later on cuz that was a year um and then of course plenty over the Northern Hemisphere these days justtin know you’re a commentator for Stan Sport and also involved in the Aussie rugby Players Association so tell us a little bit about I suppose your journey from playing into looking after the players how did you end up there what took you there wow yeah it was you know look I’m a I’m a product of proud product of the game first and foremost you know stumbled into the game at 19 and was lucky enough to sort of time it with with professionalism really and had a sort of seven eight year career as a player banc around Europe for a little while and just just became pretty interested I did Sports administration at at University was lucky enough to sort of get through a degree while I was juggling playing and you know just got a keen interest in in in trying to provide a framework and relationship for players as they navigate through their through their journey and through their lifespan you know young young men and women now coming into the The Cauldron of professional sport are exposed to all sorts of risk and adversity that’s quite often a lot of it’s out of their control so we’re just trying I’m trying around the edges to control as much as that make it as linear and as supported as possible there’s lots of lots of industrial relationship and employment law um Frameworks collective bargaining agreement but in intrinsically it’s trying to add value to the player journey and also a real partnership in the game get inside the room add value add constructive um conflict move forward as a as a real-time partner and I suppose that’s that’s my position now 2009 and took on CEO of The Players Association just trying to be um um as constructive and and and you know solution based as possible do you have a trademark on constructive conflict is that as a term is that is that yours it’s uh listen well it’s constructive for me most often but I’m not sure about the counterart just the rule of the Jungle Sometimes com comes to the FL I certainly you know conflict negotiation is much better now than it was uh in my uh my early 20s that’s for sure is that what you called it with Austin Healey back in 2001 constructive conflict well let’s see that’s just smart conflict pick the smallest BL on F you know I was never you you’ll never see clips of me picking fights with Janu Jerry Collins or zinzen or any of those boys like is both that you can all have them I was happy to zero in on Austin heing he’s yeah he’s difficult to uh well was quite often used at lunches he difficult to ignore Austin but it’s worth the effort so he’s no friend of mine that’s for sure we get absolutely berated um for using nicknames on this show so I’m interested I just realized I said goog before how did you get the nickname goog uh yeah we get we get Carrie for using nicknames as well it’s first times um goog goog is Googy googie egg it’s a you Cal ter bad egg googie the bad egg I um I was a little bit um I wasn’t so wordy with my conflict negotiations at an earlier age and so um I had a bit of yeah very very short fuse um so I um yeah I we sat I arrived at toong Vikings Rugby Club second year of my um embryonic rugby career in 1994 and uh went out for a night out with the boys there would welcome me next day we’re sitting back again at the clubhouse having had a reasonably active night out and um yeah I had a few disputes with a few people along the way and they just sat around and said we what are we going to call this like and someone said Googy googie the bad egg everyone sort of sat and no one said a word everyone sort of took a sip of their beer put it back down and and from then on I was called googie uh just you know as you know you don’t have a say in your nicknames but that one stuck with me yeah I saw an awesome story and I don’t know if you want to relive it but something to do with your World Cup medal 2003 you did one with Stan Sports and your boys and I just thought it was such an amazing take on where you were in your life then as a player to where you are now yeah that was a quite a quite a interesting story um well for me anyway because it’s quite personal but yeah look 2003 clearly well documented we lost lost the World Cup uh and I wasn’t very keen on on on the silver medal I was pretty disappointed um and it it it probably would have drawn more criticism of social media was more alive back then but I didn’t I didn’t wear the metal I just I just had it and my mind that it was just a you know a heavy weight around my neck um and just a a really bad representation of failure for me um and for the team and my my feelings sort of got the better of me that night I had a few beers of course but um I ended up down at darling Harbor outside one of the bars down there and still had the metal in my pocket um uh pulled it out and threw it into the harbor actually um you know and I had I had all sorts of things running through from ah head I had grandiose images of you know aligning myself to Muhammad Ali who’ thrown his medal in the in the river for entirely different reasons of course um much much more serious than my just failure at the World Cup but um yeah and then and then didn’t really think too much of it got through sort of Christmas that time and and then eventually madebe you get this thing called fatherhood and responsibility and I started to articulate you know what I want our two boys jack and Hugo to sort of have a moral comp compass and truth and honesty and trustworthiness and if you have nothing else you have your word and those sorts of things and you know L if you’re going to lose lose doing greatly and honorably and make sure you give it your best those sorts of messages for me are important to to the next generation of Harrisons and um yeah though I couldn’t articulate clearly why or how I’d come to throw the metal in the harbor you know can you show us the medal and I I was yeah always very disappointed that I couldn’t um and in the background of that I’d met um judge Jeff blackett who’s the chief disciplinary officer of the rfu I’d met him a few times because I had to appear in front of him to explain my actions on on the field so we developed a bit of a relationship uh and uh he we had met each other socially and at one of those meetings I had told him about my regret uh for throwing the medal and that I was you know um not able to show my my sons this medal and um in the background he said about getting a project together to get a a metal recast for me by the by the rfu and Bill Bowmont got involved um the then chairman of St rugby homes McCullen got involved and um yeah they minted a they minted a silver medal for me a new a new one of the of the original cast um and presented it to me mate so yeah it was um amazing you know and I I look sport has all sorts of connection and family and we support each other in rugby and so to you know soccer players and o le they say we don’t have a mortgage on that sense of connection but that was a that was a pretty powerful um display of what this thing called rugby can do and how it can reach across Waters and parochial um nationalism you know this is an English rfu President Chief disciplinary officer and Judge Advocate General of this of the British armed forces are actively searching out Bill Bowmont to get a medal recast for me after a conversation um that he heard me you know say to him how disappointed I was for our two boys mate so it was yeah it was huge I mean what how humbling is that I’ve got the medal now is is is the most valuable thing I own I reckon now could given the emotion that was attached to it and the effort that that that they went through and the boys now have got a tactile um a tactile representation of what it is to be connected to people through sport um I think is a really great little lesson for me to give to to the boys in amongst this fatherhood it’s I don’t know what I’m doing but I think I’ve got that that little part right so yeah it was pretty emotional mate yeah tears too plenty of Tears there was no there was no bad egg there was uh free flying tears I just been in the hospital actually for for a fairly long time so they caught me the weak M I’d like to say it was a very dusty room oh thank you for that story Justin we appreciate the the honesty and the the emotion connected to to what is a really cool part of rugby folklore most of the time when I’m sort of allowing myself to to reach back into the memory bank I don’t I don’t go immediately to extreme success and celebration and trophy cabinets I I go to those sorts of connections and those sorts of stories and here I am now you know we get to talk to each other and and and develop memories and and and history and I think that’s a that’s the great thing about rugby is um you know you can reach into anyone’s living room in of any nationality around um various you know um countries at the moment and be connected so that’s a that’s a pretty cool thing to be part of we’ve got a bit of History to be made in the next couple of weeks anyway don’t we somebody might be thinking about throwing their medal in the harbor and someone might be thinking about lifting a trophy over next couple of weeks starting this week with your team the Blues versus your former team the brumes now the brumes have been an interesting team they started pretty poorly and they’ve slowly built their way into this season haven’t they to the point now where they’re in this game and with a shot in this game how do you feel about the brumbies and and where they stand in comparison to the blues when you consider earlier in the year the blues took them to Pieces yeah took them to pieces of a general description uh and and most certainly they you know the language from from the bumes players after that defeat was they were embarrassed you know they weren’t just um they didn’t go to playing poorly or talk about mistakes they just abject embarrassment um about the way they were dismantled you know that gives us two indications one one is that the brumes scored is still as strong and connected and and and um knowledgeable is going to play a certain style of game to put you under pressure but they haven’t they haven’t had that consistency or that platform um of building into a campaign they’ve had some Peaks and troughs which has been surprising for the brummies we know they’re most the most consistent um Australian Province at the moment but they they’ve coupled that with some some very low performances which are uncharacteristic I think Steven Lam’s you know some of his team selections he’s made several changes uh on a week- toe basis and moved blocks into into flanker and his 10 now has been in and out with Jack deini you know you’ve had Alan Al come back James Super out so they have had some changes in personnel which has probably mirrored their season you know and then we we flick across to the blues where you know we you know I I can comfortably say that’s that Blues team is playing like the blues teams you know I remember even the great you know some of the greatest like 97 when we when we went over to to play that team in the Grand Final brumes v v um blues at Eden Park you know Zin was was Captain that was that was an amazing team then you go you know 023 zavier Rush Ali Williams Blues like that that’s how good this group is at the moment so they are they are I think they’re they’re the most consistent team in the competition we know they G picked them for first up at the on the ladder but I think the blues have got the most complete game to dismantle the rumbies at the moment I think we’d both agree defense wins championships good and at times the blues obviously lead the comp and as that that consistenly shine massively in stopping tries more than I suppose what we’ve previously known them for as scoring tries but if we look at the brumes for a number of games this year they’ve tackled around 78 79% now you take it to the quarterfinal on the weekend and they tackled at 93% one area of still concern 1 penalties it’s a lot lower than what they’ve given away they have been quite cynical when defending in their 22 if they give the opportunities they gave the Highlanders on the weekend 10 entries into the 22 how do you reckon they plan to stop the Blues from getting across that line we can look the stats to tell any most narratives but that that’s a powerful one right your defense statistic needs to be plus 90% non-negotiable in any game really to be um to be able to control it uh particularly finals U and so one one of the things you know and those penalties against the brumes a lot of set piece like the scrum was under enormous amount of pressure James slipper is out you know shop was out as well slip slipers apparently going to be back for this weekend’s game which is going to be a huge boost to them they had six scums first half zero they donates all the way down for success rate uh and four penalties against um didn’t have any complete completions on feeds and we know that the bromes in amongst all of The Adventurous style of play that we like to say and play what’s in this concept of playing what’s in front of the brumes need that platform so if you can unsettle at at scrum and line out it really does take them a longer time to problem solve and we saw that against the Highlanders so they had whole first half managed to go in at 176 one point up which was a huge benefit for them getting that try just before halftime so they were able to then address you know some of their some of their deficiencies and and talk about how they were going to change the way they were playing in the second half you know you look at the second half L luckily or not U you know they didn’t have um three or four back-to-back knock on and turnovers which were scrums right so the second half I think they only had two scrums total so that helped them a lot one of the things I’ll throw some stats back at you now the Brum is in in in opposition 22 and they’re 22 in terms of ball retention so opposition 22 they at 96% um so which is the best in the competition and in their 22 retaining possession of breakdown to then exit after kick receipt they’re the second best so they’re very clinical at the two most important ends of the field we know the middle part is all is is the building blocks but once they get inside the 22 and exit from 22 and that’s that’s quite often from set piece launches right so if you don’t have one of those pieces working very well it’ll take the BR is a longer time so then you go well how does what does that mean well I tell you what the set piece for the blues is the best in the competition I believe their scrum and their line out is one of the best put together cohesive um units they know when to more and describe when you know when to run they they release their back their back three through the the efficiency of their type forwards and it’s a it’s a strong connection you can control the backline play and maybe I’m giving TP fors a bigger W than I probably should but I always will having been one you know not often we can get our hands on back three players right but we can influence the way that they can play by what we do at set piece right it’s a bit of Captain Obvious but that that’s the way that the brumes will need to approach it they’ll need to to not have parody they need to have ascendency uh in their Mall certainly more defense is going to be tested and absolutely the the left side of scrum you know um that that you know Jermaine Angley had a field day um for the Highlanders so you know Harry Val if he takes the field if JN slipper comes on he’s going to be worried about his calf that is definitely going to be an area that they’re going to need to address and I think you know where I think I saw their biggest opportunity and I’ve changed my tune on this I’ve been quite hard on the brumes um throughout the year uh purely because I’ve been focusing on the defense and their cynical amount of penalties in the opposition 20 to Wi defending but they’ve always won and I’ve had the ability to win ugly but the other night their kicking game was spot on I think they’ve averaged around 20 kicks per game 33 the other night and they’re contesta bles and they’re going to face similar jewy conditions it won’t be as cold but this time of the year and you’ve just spoken about their strength that set peace Patrick taloto being out who’s been a key cog to the success of the Blues throughout this season you know in your heart of hearts and taking every hat off are they peing at the right time to get an upset because remember the semi-final a few years ago they nearly did it had it not been a charge down from off FY they are going there knowing that they have they have a blueprint and and and a squad that has the capacity to test the blues but but as you as you know M you know this thing called sport that’s unforgiving when you when you have a a style of game that invites risk into the arena you are in trouble against a team like the blues so that that kicking strategy is is high risk High reward I feel like you know tapbacks went to Dary Swain a couple of times fell in the hands can so easily fall into the hands of let’s say a blues player now and it’s end to endend you’re standing under the post thinking gez I was just I was just chasing a kick and now I’m watching someone convert a try so I I think they’ll they’ll probably tighten up a bit a bit of that they were a bit disrespectful of possession in first half I felt as well you know you need to value possession we know that defense needs to be Paramount but when you get limited Chances with the ball um you need to you need to execute I I I you know it’s an up is it an upset or is it or is it the brumes coming through to the form that they probably need to right at the right end of the season absolutely I agree I think I think they’re building um they have a nice amount of momentum they’ve had to win tough they’ve had you know I was talking to some of the players before the the match during the week and they said look you know we’re worried about or cons or aware that we’re going to be attacked at setpiece but we don’t want to have our toughest session tonight in the game we’ve already had tough sessions for set piece against our reserves we’ve really beating each other up and I thought that was a really interesting um take on it you know we’ve they’re going to have some tough scrummaging sessions some tough mold attack defense sessions some tough defense sessions during the week and then they’ll get into that Arena against the blues knowing that they’ve got they’ve got some toughness in them uh and you know it’s just going to be it’s going to be um coming down to you know controlling the game you know New Zealand sides you guys so good at at creating um very small opportunities and looking for one-on ons and accelerating through that opportunity and making it pay um you know in value and quite often scoring you know New Zealand sides you well my impression is that you’re not often um setting up players you’re every every player is a strike player everything is designed to to score which is why you so quickly you can have two back-to-back tries if you have two errors or three errors in a row two tries a penalty and you’re down by 12 you know before you’ve even realized that you you’ve started the match so I think you know the the defense for the brummies we talk about they attack all the time but just spot on right their defense is going to be the decider and the way that they treat possession the way that they move the ball forward is not going to be as easy as as a as a kick contestable ball um because we know that those percentages of of return are very small one of the interesting things about the blues this year has been their big forwards getting over the advantage line and who can stop it so your conversation on defense is interesting on the other side of things you’ve got Rob Valentini and I’m interested in your take on him because in my view I think he is probably the best and most consistent for his position in all of Super Rugby yeah ge’s a wonderful he’s a wonderful specimen that boy he’s um you know he’s a big strong robust Ball Carrier let’s not forget you know that they’ve married they’ve married quite a quite a good back row together now and we know that that’s it’s important for balance you know if you if you’re having to repair or having to um do part of another back rower’s role uh you’re going to not you’re going to be deficient in your own and I think that’s the benefit for for for for Bobby v he’s got jyn B who I think has been exceptional and J the Chiefs are going to be happy to get him down there next year uh and then you know Charlie Kyle um who’s just a young gun that’s come on and playing with with the freedom uh and multiple skill sets that he’s got has allowed Robbie valtini just to concentrate on those hard lines he’s not getting wasted you know early in the year he was running at one and two and three off the rck you know running at their B biggest strongest Defenders um who were never going to move anywhere and he was he was he was quite confrontational with that and a lot of a lot of T-Bone tackles we call them you know sort of direct impact and it was just body size on body size now he’s sort of four and five six Defender inside outside shoulder he’s he’s getting his shoulders through and releasing um the ball and keeping it alive and that’s a real key for the brumes you know they multiple body shapes moving at the line he’s playing with Comfort uh he’s enjoying it he’s got a smile on his face uh and he’s not arriving you know early in the year as well he was arriving at the end of the game and he looked fatigued like he looked like he’d had to really work hard across multiple aspects of the game and getting run at big men now I think he’s got a bit of he’s got a bit of wind wind in his feet and he’s enjoying the freedom that he’s that he’s getting quite you watch you know on the weekend he’ll be he’ll be wide channels he’ll be patient he’ll let the ball come to him him uh he’ll make smart decisions of when to involve himself in in pick and go and tighten up but mostly he’s letting Jon Brown do the hard yards at breakdown and he and Kyle a left and right flanker and they’re having a field day you know a bit like AR Sev was right when he was when he spot on when a sfia turned it on he’d take two or three people down that wide Channel Kieran Reed used to do it as well right you sort of freed them be in tight for a while but then release release and open up their shoulder blades and they start playing like another outside Center so I think that’s what that’s what Bobby is doing that loose forward battle is mouthwatering and and I I have to sort of give similar shout out to AKA I think we do focus on Hoskin suudu a lot we do focus on Dalton Papa lot but AA 60 odd minutes on the weekend 11 carries 10 tackles 21 rcks if we compare that to Bobby V love that nickname I don’t know the first time I’ve heard it but I’m operating it Rob Valentini 8 in carry 11 um tackles 21 rcks and 80 minutes so very similar in terms of work rate and playing that physical direct role but being a little bit smarter at who they’re sort of going at um and you know last game potentially last home game for a kider Yani um you know 10 years 100 plus games like he is a key cog in blu’s history and you know you you always think about these Milestone games Don’t You Justin and sometimes you can overplay them a little bit um there’s a lot of expectation and and passion and and you know I suppose Focus to try and send him out for another week get earning another Monday so controlling all these emotions and those head-to-head battles that you know Brown vers papal um um kale against Hoskins you know it’s um it is it is exciting for where this I I didn’t feel I would and probably it’s my own baggage that I’ve now started getting nervous but I didn’t see this coming uh in terms of if the brumes were to play us at home I thought it was probably a a it was done that we’d be in the final but from what we saw on the weekend it’s anything but the injury tolls um even for the Chiefs canes like I feel there’s a genuine top four that you don’t know where it’s going to go yeah your baggage is heavy too oh M that Crusaders that Crusaders took the package in there and the baggage was right I’ve I’ve always been successful against the rumes so there’s no not so much mental personal baggage like I have with the Crusaders but it’s more biger cion a legend going out of the game you know the the brothers you know who have sort of led the city for a long time and AA and Rico it’s just making sure that that’s controlled and managed can we talk a little bit about a for a second just I suppose as Legacy CU he’s a player who I suppose frustrates people because of his endless potential you know so many people thought he would be an all black till the end of time and it never quite happened can you talk a little bit about the Legacy he leaves at the blues what you’ve seen of him behind closed doors and what’s made him such a strong presence within that Squad yeah I think he’s really unfairly misunderstood to be honest like the guy is come in straight out of school like you know 17 18 years of age he was training at the blues with myself um you know he he had a run in his first year I think he fended off the honey badger at Eden Park and sprinted you know 50 50 m and everyone was like wo and from then on everyone just expected that to happen like super Rugby’s not NPC and I think there’s there’s a big big gap between that and test match footy is not Super Rugby and you’re not going to get as many opportunities as we probably saw early in his career when he wasn’t known but as you’d agree Justin once footage is found and you do the you you you do the under understanding of their intricacies it’s it becomes a lot harder um and he’s veloped and he’s changed his game and he’s you know the one thing he’s been impressed me the most is he has held his head up when you know publicly scrutinized um by all black coaches and you know publicly scrutinized by people that you know have never set foot in the field um and he’s taken it all on his shoulders and and he’s just kept to him he stayed true to him he’s got a great family Network and support and I’m extremely proud of you know his journey because a lot of people would pull pin and go to Japan a lot earlier than he has this city means something to him Club means something to it and what you don’t see behind closed do is how much that means to him and I think that’s the most impressive thing is he’s he’s put the bit between his teeth and he’s proved people wrong he has been an all black and he’s you know he’s had some great moments in the black Jersy but it’s not a development team it’s a hard team to last in you know like it’s not that easy um to have you know 50 60 cap games like a drum kindo so where he sits um you know I I think he’s definitely in the top 10 of um best players that have sort of come through and had a legacy at the blues yeah been there a long time yeah it’s not just the longevity though yeah he he’s he’s he’s stood out when teams have been struggling he’s he’s brought um a maturity and growth to himself as a person but as a rugby player um and he’s showing the care and love for a city that was born in Britain and you know between Rico and himself man that every time they talk about what Oakland means to them what the blues means to them man you can’t get you know ha stand up on the back of your neck um and and I think he shows it in his actions you not only during the week but game day he probably had possibly Rugby Club to that list as well absolutely um and his parents are are amazing in terms of what they contribute to the community game and you know they drag those boys back you know everyone always talks about Club rugby and Community they they were always there man if Rico could and they’ play Club rugby if if it allowed them to do that like you know like that’s how much they love that ponon club and that’s how much they love the game and we always look for examples of this or maybe we look for examples of where it doesn’t happen versus maybe celebrating the times that it does another person who’s really important to that team you mentioned before is Patrick tupou now Justin when you looking at it from a brumes perspective the absence of both the captain and the Talisman like Patrick tupu what kind of effect are you expecting that to have on this game I look it helps it absolutely helps you know you you you absolutely look around so team team performance you look at how your game plan’s going to manifest itself as a as a as a unit and then you’re going to look at how you can contribute best to that team uh with your two or three job descriptions so as a second RAR I would have be acutely aware of the pressure that I was going to be put under by Patrick and and and have to design a certain style of game a call recipe for line out kickoff instructions how to move away from him how to try and fatigue him how to keep him away from static moments where he’s going to just arm Cur you in and spit you out like it’s just a presence that he has on the field for the blues uh you know and and so calm like just the thing about the way that he puts together you know violent powerful actions but always seems calm and in control for a big man that’s a big skill and you know you you you talk about it you know he’s his Mana through that team is going to be missed absolutely going to be something that the blues uh I think and rightly so will will be a little nervous about that’s a big presence to to to to feel uh just presence alone let alone the things that he does he’s one of the most active TP forwards in the competition he’s down up off the ground very quickly in the line he carries well he’s good above his head in the air which is uh you know often forgotten skill for second rows asking them to move around the field and and Link pass and and clean out and Tackle but there’s there’s also finesse in the skill that you need to bring and and and to miss that uh I think that listen it’s not it’s not the end of the section for that tight forward pack because that’s that’s exactly what they’ll do they’ll ganize around each other but uh I I think I think that’s that’s something that the brumes will be um will be pleased about that’s for sure I think the one positive out the backer then I think um coach ver Cotter um you know Paul Tito and and um Greg F deserve is they have rotated this squad all year and I think it’s for moments like this this is I think you know Patty had a big um injury in Japan preseason and he was out for a long time and it meant other guys had to step up not only in terms of that locking position but as Leaders you know and I think we saw the other night when he went off you know Dalton really stepped up so did someone like so did Rico um so did a you know so these guys are I think they’re well placed previously with blue sides you see quite a consistent selection method these coaches have have really flipped that on its head and at times I was like man how why do they want to lose that flow and I I sort of question it in my own head but I said to ver the other night I think that’s a big point of difference if they are to go on and win this game and the big dance I feel that use of squad depth and if you look through history the teams that have won it have always rotated and and I I it takes a bowl coach in the first year to do it I believe because he’s utilized a lot of young men yeah just listening to articulate that the blues rotation absolutely and I probably I probably would say that the brummies are actually quite similar too AR they you know Steven Lam sort of spun the chocolate wheel a couple of times not because he hasn’t known who to select but he’s definitely looking at different combinations at different times even the even the Hoopa Frost swne Caden Neville sort of second row back row trying to marry a rad lock to a you know picking a picking a forward forwards pack or specific games and modeling that giving them clear instruction you know that’s that’s fascinating I I think as well so you you are going to have two complete Squad two squads of 23 you know 46 players there that have got healthy minutes across you know one through player 23 already um which just which just tells us that we’re we’re we’re heading into a game that’s going to be very tightly matched evenly um distributed in playing Talent um you know tactically it’s going to be fascinating the kicking the kicking strategy is going to be fascinating it probably’s going to KI you know contest the ball which will have ball in play which invites Blu forward pack and mobility in that big back row or we going to keepi long and out uh make sure that pressure in the air for line out time and try to limit the opportunities for for anything else to to descend into an arm wrestle I think it will be a lot less aggressive um due to the back three presence that the blues have um because I agree with Justin man a mark TOA or a Caleb Clark catching one on the fo and then trying to stop them she’s she’s tough going at the best of times and if you get that in a disrupted defensive line you will end up under your stick so I don’t think it will be as aggressive but the other night it was seriously seriously dewy it wasn’t as cold as it would have been in camra but the opportunity for potentially contesta bles more of Noah Cross Field kicks where you’re going to have a strong line and you can sort of protect um you know the clock in a way you can sort of get guys in front of the ball and behind the ball and and sort of work as a five um are probably more attractive than going off nine um but you know it’s you still got to catch it and they they proved to be effective so I think we’ll see a bit of it but as we saw the blues change their plan they didn’t do a lot of contestes against the dra they kept it low looked for 50 22s and tried to play that territory batt battle and almost played a style that I thought said we’re in the finals now you make the mistakes and then you let us be in the right part of the field and we’ll have a CRP well you talking about 50 22s I’m hot on a new rule um I often get hot on new rules Justin watching on the weekend twice kickoffs from obviously from behind halfway or supposedly behind halfway go out within the 22 and you don’t get a 5022 I feel like that you should be allowed 5022 from a kickoff if you put the ball out within the opposition 22 like you’ve got an entire team set up to take that ball and stop anything bad from happening and if you can get it out within the 22 to me it’s almost more valuable than uh you know an ad hoc 5022 and running play yeah well I mean Justin will know more than I but the NRL have if you kick it out you get it back um but if you kick it out on the four obviously a penalty at halfway so there is a risk first reward um similar in rugby but you don’t you obviously don’t get the ball back but when it goes out from a you know and if you’ve got a strong set piece it is quite a big win for that territory game because Justin’s right like the brumes are really good but some teams aren’t good at winning their line out ball and exiting um but I like the idea and I think the more Innovative we can get um in our game and the more I suppose excitement it would add a different dimension Justin as a BL whose job was to get up in the air and try to stop that that ball from getting into the wrong places oh it’s just yeah look it’s so important isn’t it you that third set piece we talk about all the time kick Reed after you’ve either scored or to start start harves uh very very important to exit and if you know the highis car award if you’re going to change your kick strategy to try and find grass and then get it across sideline you know bring a bit of extra Jeopardy into the game we’ve got this thing called a whole a whole group of Spectators that want to see um tactics and variety and skill execution playing out on the field uh so you know look it’s it’s it’s worth an examination um I’m not actually sure why you you you wouldn’t be satisfied that that’s that’s a meaningful um rule rule adaption because you you know you you either put you know you drop field players across the field in the 50 to spread them out to to to try and cover territory you can’t cover it all so you open up if you’re covering that let’s say something else uh is open which is the principle that they why they introduce it to start with to have decisions around defensive patterns whether you back three or your Wingers certainly are dropping back or up pushing up in a hard line for defense which opens up tactics for for for back lines so yeah worth looking at let’s go into the Chiefs and the canes before we let you go um obviously we got got two kiwi teams in this one you’ve watched them play a fair bit of footy this year what are you seeing from those two teams do do you think the Chiefs have what it takes to head to Wellington and beat them at Sky Stadium yeah I think they do I think I think if I’m in the Hurricanes I’m a bit worried about the Chiefs uh you know they they’ve they they’ve proven week after week we we roll in with pregame commentary and Analysis and we talk about demac and if you shut down him you shut down the the Chiefs but every single time we come away going wow what about the other for players we didn’t even mention and they just they just create opportunity for for for Mackenzie for sure but impressively the the Chiefs have been really clinical in the way that they’ve they’ve introduced a power game and not just a broken field score from anywhere opportunity with dmac or long range um penalty kicks that they are creating um you know weaknesses in opposition through the strength of their forward pack I think they’ve they’ve got a great forward pack they’ve got a great backline the canes hurricanes have always in my mind always been um you know if you were going to try and unsettle the Hurricanes that was through there fors but they they have they have um sort of um address that to a certain degree and that you know there’s no secret why they’re they’re attacking so well now is they’ve got a great launch platform but I really do think you know taky AO the Chiefs that just power power when that when that body MK gets together a Chiefs Forge back and I know it’s not only that Forge of course but but they they create so much opportunity for for McKenzie everyone thinks that he just creat something out nothing he does but but it’s it’s because teams in front of him are fatigued from having to withstand what’s coming at them um in in the size and shape and variety of ball Runner and setpiece power that the Chiefs have got at the moment you agree yeah well I definitely think the Chiefs are a chance and they’re the one side um and I’ll give into this a little bit later that have put the hurricans Under Pressure defensively but I I just I genuinely look at it and I think both back lines are in form and and you know they’ve got the skill set to score points like the battle of the forwards and whoever wins that breakdown line out you know for the first time probably the first time I’ve seen the Hurricanes line out struggle a little bit so the Chiefs will be liking um the look of that um and I mean I am just salivating for the front row battle but particularly alore takaho like two of the most explosive hookers you know the game seen in a long time both playing really well and looking to sort of claim a black Jersey um that that’s going to be outstanding but I I just think um the Chiefs are peing at the right time they’ve got a lot of their good players back um sort of similar to the brumbies they’ve they’ve been up and down and there’s a lot of injuries but um we know this game is going to be one on collision and if you look at that um the canes did let the Rebels win a lot of that Collision area um on the weekend so that’ll be their big focus is their pack fronting up and taking it to this Chief’s pack getting it done so you’re picking the canes or the Chiefs what are you thinking Justin see now this is where I’m I’m probably I’m probably my heart’s probably um ruling my head because you know I’ll just let down I’m I’m unashamedly putting all of the Harrison energy into the R’s beating the blues and the Chiefs beating the Kane so there’s a home [Laughter] final yeah I just uh look I I think I think I think the Chiefs are going to unsettle him I think the hurricanes are such you know the thing about the Hurricanes is they’re such a rhythm team I I don’t actually feel like they’re a good problem solving team if they can be put under some consistent adversity and two or three things back to back go wrong for them and they get scored against in one of those three and another maybe a penalty or and and and an injury or something they I think the Chiefs are most um battle hardened to to deal with those sorts of setbacks and to expose that sort of fragility for the C I I I think the Chiefs are going to win and you touched on Damen McKenzie before I’m interested in your point of you we have had an email through from a guy called Matt usas who wanted to know about Damen McKenzie and how he stands within the All Blacks um scheme of things do you feel from from where you’re standing that he is the first choice 10 and he should be given that crack yeah I think it’s no brainer I I don’t even know why it’s even a question right I just doesn’t seem to be getting um the Merit um that he that he that he has earned he really is one of the best performed players consistently over multiple Seasons uh and in that position and in he’s asked to sort of play out of position then or come off a bench or put in some sort of two-way Tuggle and give equal minut I just think that it’s his position now it’s it’s his jersey it’s his position to take the All Blacks into um you know the the campaign the test campaign then accelerate them into you know and and importantly the All Blacks they need a consistent 10 they need to really get a nine and 10 now to take them into next World Cup period um knowing exactly what their cohesion model looks like because that’s we know that any team that’s a chance of of threatening the top end of the tournament and winning it you need you need of course you need to scrumble those sorts of things and power powering your forwards but you need a nine and 10 that that have got lots of tests together before they take the World Cup Campaign together the other thing he says is you know his defense is sometime wanting especially against big players do you agree I don’t agree with that the guy’s got the heart like yes I mean 110 kilos is always going to bowl over eventually someone of that size I never seen a more corageous Defender yeah than Damen McKenzie and there’s so many ways you can manipulate defensive lines I I just don’t buy into that no I don’t think I don’t think at all I think it’s it’s an easy thing an easy thing to say without actually having real statistical proof that this person has no idea of how to put themselves in arms way because that’s not true look at the amount of times he carries back at the teeth of defense and with ball carries so you there’s no way that he has that sort of attitude in in ball carry and fearlessness and then goes missing in defense it’s just you know and so then you say well okay what game plan has been put around if that’s true show me don’t believe you but certainly then what are you doing to rectify because there’s been multiples of players that have been able to play test campaigns very very well that have an opportunity to have a different type of defensive framework around them and they’ll be invited to make more sort of side on tackles or they’ll be on the end of drift defense instead of upfront personal T-Bone collisions you know what’s your back row doing to protect your t every team in the world every forward pack is conditioned TI forwards particularly um to to look after your your 10 and nine and that’s you know I would I would question what what are the other players doing to make sure Damen McKenzie’s got as much protection as he knows like they beat the Crusaders when they readed hot and the the part of their six winning titles but they beat them down in choss church purely sometimes just on daman’s last line defense you know ler Fu running down the left hand flank and and that he flies in there and puts his head in front of him and barges him out yeah just before the TR line like I I just yeah I don’t know how you could think that I remember watching him tackle nman nandolo in the corner nman n’s forearms are the size of Damen McKenzie yeah no can’t buy into that 100% okay well despite the complete disagreement um Matt we’ll send you out the player sportball thank you for sending in an email getting the boys fired up and having a chat about that and thank you very much to you Justin for joining us on the show you’re a good EG mate we appreciate it my pleasure that’s great boys thanks very much and uh look I’ll tell I’ll tell you what else that Jersey because it’s the it’s the old school one right it’s it’s giving me sh7 yeah the amount of times I saw that run past me I never saw what the front Jersey sponsor was I just knew the number going put and it was just Sean Fitzpatrick standing above me the zinzan brook as SWS giving me me not Michael Jones so there you go was 0 1997 right I played I didn’t play take the field and there’s a photo afterwards where we we know we got spanked but it was a decent game and um uh everyone is down in the mouth I’m the only one smiling I’ve got I’ve got the big praying man standing there think this is just the greatest experience ever I’ve got to play against the world 15 Orland Blues like they were just Geniuses but uh yeah so there you go Robin Brooke like I was jez what a crazy team that W brown was in basically the All Blacks yeah it was it was yeah it was pretty pretty pretty special times anyway rip in I appreciate your time thanks very much boys Justin Harrison eh character smart man oh mate character character he is just one of the funniest BLS um but a very deep thinker of the game um and I think you can see that with you know the way he sort of articulates his point speaking of deep thinkers of the game Bren Hall isn’t with us this week he’s off in Queens down having a great old time so Bren still sent us through a message cuz well he’s got some pretty big views of course on what’s going to happen this weekend let’s start with the Chiefs he reckons they can get up against the kanes too I think for the Chiefs to have a chance against the Hurricanes this week the contact area is going to be massive and I thought they were able to to win you know a lot of those areas I think against the the Reds on the weekend they had 13 turnovers and that wasn’t just from Jackal that has been able to counter Rock um the Reds ball and I think that’s a an imp they can Implement that in defensively I think they can do that on the weekend to slow down their BS if you’re going to give the likes of ly um Flanders uh who else do they have there Brad Shields and D KY coming off the bench it’s going to be a really long night for them so you know if you look at the bumes game when they lost to the bumes that area was massive so I think you know the loose for and that tight five of the of the Chiefs will be knowing that that’s what’s in store for them them to be able to get the job done and I think the kicking game was really good on the weekend you know they had 31 kicks they had six six kicks that were retained off a contestable of nine or of 10 and I think the way that Sean Stevenson and Dam McKenzie off exits kicking long I thought they were probably the best of the quarterfinals this week been able to get out of their own half with their kicking game and I guess the length that those two have so I think in turn if they can get that right along with the breakdown area which I’ve touched on in the Collision area defensively and attack it’ll be really big for them and lastly I think their phase play attack as well if they can get that right you know on the weekend yet the second pivots here DAV McKenzie at the line Shan Stevenson was out the back and when you’re getting that good go forward ball that phase play Shipe that I think they’ve had the that was probably the best at the start of the year we saw a little bit of that against the Reds so if you giveawa obviously nana satu I think’s in great form those guys more opportunities out on the edge I think the Chiefs have a genuine good chance of of your Beating Huron on the weekend which I think is going to be a great match chest match between both teams and you it’s been able to understand who’s going to get those moments and it’s going to be a great one to watch on the weekend so that’s the word from Bren Hall he thinks the Chiefs can do it against the canes jipper you’ve also got some ideas on this let’s go a bit deeper yeah first off I think the biggest thing for the Chiefs is they’ve been the team that sort of is showing the most impact on this Hurricane’s Rush defense and I think this is not to say the canes aren’t the favorites I think the hurricans are the favorites going into this game and I think their defense is a big part of their success but if we play it on here we’ll see three Clips where Damen McKenzie draws out the defense by holding his feet and a nice little downline from po hippie yes they get lucky here but you make your own luck the Chiefs again if you watch from this behind angle you just watch the line of Po hippie there holds his feet and then punches into that hole he’s forced Jordi Barrett to go out Brad Shields has already committed to his man and with a rush D if you get this wrong you have the ability to break down their defense a nice line from poor hippie once again ball out the back to Damen holds it in two hands bounce line from Josh Yani but the ball out the back as well could have gone to Nuru which creates the conversion uh confusion but then watch this 12 line again from po hippie brings Jordy Barrett in and then the patience and the skill set of Damen McKenzie makes it all too easy in the end for noada to get the try now that was the first time they played each other again the hurrians got off to a hot start in Hamilton but straight after the break sby Rickett keeps his his hips Square which allows Mackenzie time on the ball a nice downline again from Luke Jacobson but the skill of Jordi Barrett when we come out the back to bounce off and cover po hippie out the back is the difference but what we needed was noo to actually Jam earlier on an Nuru that hesitation and a rush D can be taken advantage of just like that so if they can get again to the outside channels as they’ve shown all season the Chiefs are a real opportunity to take this game just give a moment to get back into a seat okay jipper yes do you actually think the Chiefs will do that and win look I think they’ll execute it at times but no I I think the canes and the reason why and I sort of said at the start of the piece I do think the canes are favorites and they deserve to be favorites and they’ve also got key members coming back that have proven you know I suffer more for one but the Chiefs had to make 240 tackles on the weekend yes they tackled at 92% but that’s a lot of collisions verse 71 for the Kings they’re just not going to be as banged up they’re going to be fresh and that Collision area is going to be so critical they are evenly matched the Chiefs you would think um defensively they are very very strong in the sense of they like to bang you up but the canes have shown all year their ability to either go around defenses or through them um so I I just think the big when the big moment has come the both times these two two teams have met the canes have come on come probably out the better and and and you just have to think um that will continue but it is there is a likelihood I will agree that the Chiefs could win and the brumes could win but I I’m I’m definitely sticking with the blues canes the blues go with the kanes and the blues obviously yeah straightforward win against the brumes do you think about how much do you think um look I’ve got a lot of confidence the squad’s been used I think I think they’ve got to go and confident they’ve got to look back at how they played a team that is probably not in as good a shape themselves as what they played earlier at Eden Park um and yeah I I think the blues will win I don’t think it’ll be 13 plus but I you know I definitely think it’ll be closer to 13 than than not yeah yeah yeah right so thank you very much once again joining us here on the AL or rugby pod semi-final this weekend next time when we talk to you we’ll know exactly who’s in that final we’ll also be joined next week by the winner of our tipping comp Nick AKA kan’s in Exile to give his view on what’s going to happen in the final he was a master Tipper he was relentlessly good during the Tipping comp thank you very much for joining us once again of course if you want to catch the show you can catch it on all Skys sport platforms on Rugby pass as well listen to it as an audio pod we’ll catch you next week please send us an email I’ll tell our rotter sky. z m [Music] hey [Applause]