Juan Pablo Montoya’s Race for the 2003 Championship | F1 Beyond The Grid LEGENDS

Seven-time Grand Prix winner Juan Pablo Montoya joins Tom Clarkson for the first episode of F1 Beyond The Grid’s LEGENDS episodes.

Going into the final two races of 2003, Montoya was only three points behind World Championship leader Michael Schumacher in a three-way fight for the title, with Kimi Raikkonen just behind them.

But by the season finale, the Colombian was out of contention – so where did it all go wrong? Juan Pablo reflects on the highs of his wins at Monaco and Hockenheim that year, the lows of his championship-ending collision with Rubens Barrichello, and whether there was anything he could have done differently to become World Champion.

Montoya also discusses whether he treated Michael differently to other drivers on track and addresses their famous incident at Imola in 2004. He explains how he got the better of Ralf Schumacher, why he couldn’t be friends with his rivals, and much more.

Plus, Juan’s son Sebastian drops by to talk about his Formula 3 ambitions this year, what it’s like having an ex-F1 driver as his dad, and the best piece of advice JPM has given him.

01:12 Where he lost the 2003 title
08:33 One-lap qualifying
16:08 Rivalries with Ralf and Michael Schumacher
23:48 Wins at Monaco and Hockenheim
31:02 Anything he could have done differently?
33:16 Sebastian Montoya drops by
42:40 Quickfire questions

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something that happens in this port the effort you put in doesn’t match the result you get sadly enough cuz there’s years that you work your butt off and you do everything by the book and you get to the race and you have races somebody runs over you you go off you make a mistake and qualifying you do this and it doesn’t matter and sometimes when you’re trying harder it’s easier it’s harder to get better things and sometimes when you relax and you let things come to you you actually perform [Music] better welcome everybody to F1 Beyond The Grid my guest this week is none other than Juan Pablo Montoya great to have you back on the show how are you yeah good how you doing I’m very very well now JPM you’ve been on the show before so I you have yeah six years ago I agree it feels like an age but this time so you’re still around yeah yes same to you right was no I haven’t you’ve been doing Indie and also Nar and yeah you name it you’ve been a busy boy but I wanted to focus uh this episode on 203 because it was your most successful season in Formula 1 you finished third in the world championship as you had done the previous year but you scored a bunch more points you scored a couple of wins as well what are your abiding memories of that year I think the probably the Highlight is is in the when Ruben had the broken gearbox and I went to pass him and I was inside and he turned into me and he spun off and and I got a penalty for it I’m like oh there you go and it still rils with you now right no but like like that’s really the I mean in in in a crazy way it sucked because he got me out of the championship but then we went to the last race and I was leading and the engine blew up yeah so I would have lost the championship you know what I mean it would probably that would have hurt even more and that cost Williams the constructor’s championship as well I think that that blowout in Japan you the numbers guy I don’t know how much pressure was there on Williams going into the year because the team had finished second in the Constructor Championship the year before what were Frank and Patrick like what was the message for you and Ralph Schumer your teammate nothing like honestly we did you feel pressure no it was you’re there to do you I mean you’re there to do a job you know what you need to do um I think 03 was very special because the amount of development went through the year in the car I don’t think the car was as good as as it needed to be at the beginning of the year but the amount of evolution we had through the year was unbelievable and I think that’s what made the car so good is the amount of development through the year I mean what was the high point for the fw26 as it was what was it best at I think the the amount of how you could roll through the middle of the corner like everywhere like how much speed you could roll in and how like how good the car was it’s kind of funny because we go for example now that I’m coming a lot of races with my kid and you here ah the car is unstable and the car is doing this and the car is doing that and rear locking and all this and I keep telling him is like you know once you get here all that things go away and like I know like OE Burman raced against him quite a bit you know they went at it for the4 Championship few years back and I was talking to OE a couple days ago here in Australia and I said was it much easier to that wasn’t I said yes it’s like you spend all these years preparing with the cars that are a freaking handful and you get into this car that you’re pretty much the limit the car just does everything right and and the smaller teams kind of don’t understand how different it is yeah that’s really interesting and and what about the power and the engine just BMW that year was on fire you had the best engine in on the gridge would you say yeah I think O3 had the best engine you I think 04 we were there but I think Honda was maybe a little better um I remember you praising the driveability as well yeah it was it was a really good engine we were and the electronics and everything like that it I’m surprised you know I mean it’s hard because bidding Ferrari in those years was like what Red Bull is today you I mean it was hardly it was nearly impossible and unrealistically you could beat them when Michelin brought about a tire like but when I think when the tires were even I think Ferrari is still had a better car than us did you relish the tire wall that was going on at the time it was really cool yeah it was really cool the amount of testing we did the amount of running with did it was a different world you know what I mean nowadays they don’t do any running I think it’s nicer that the amount of Races they do now and it’s funny because everybody complains about it they’re to many but they’re really not too many yes there more races that traditionally 15 races or 16 races a year but I think it’s personally I rather be doing 10 more races in my time than 100 days of testing by myself in somewhere although there were only 16 races back then I’ll bet you did more days in a racing car than they currently do now because of the Tes oh yeah we used to race Friday Saturday Sunday like race weekend and then Tuesday Wednesday Thursday or Wednesday Thursday Friday of the next week we were in the car and then the week after like Monday and Tuesday we were doing same and then race weekend again and that was kind of our our way of going about it and precison testing we used to do what 15 20 days of testing before the first race and then end of the season was the same thing you know we used to take what I think the rules was December 10 to January 5th or something that it was the no driving is like three weeks or something and that was it it you fit yeah you you were so much in the car that like I mean when when you’re doing 400 500ks a day in the car testing and the race is 300 it’s like is that it look just while we’re setting the scene for the championship right there’s two more things I wanted to ask you about one was the introduction of the hands device yes okay the head and neck restraint now I remember you being quite vocal about that saying I hat it I freaking hated it saying it was really uncomfortable it was really uncomfortable but did you ever get on top of it or yeah yeah yeah it’s kind of funny because I was this was like 2002 and they said we’re going to run it next year I’m going I really don’t want to do this and we had to I had to get into the spare car somewhere and and I don’t know what happened with the hands and I didn’t I couldn’t fit with the hands so I took the car to the Grid or somewhere without the hand I don’t remember there was something without the hands that I had to do an install lap or something without the hands and he fails and it was funny because I remember the engineers telling me be really careful you don’t have a hands and I’m thinking dude I’ve raced all my life without a hands it’s not you I mean it’s not this is not different than 12 six months ago or you know what I mean and it was really funny and he felt really insecure without the hands right and that happened very quickly in your mind yeah one the problem is the first hands were so uncomfortable right the shape was wrong the padding was awful H and now like nowadays you have like gel pads and you have like oh they’re so nice and if you well you have been racing recently you would feel it would feel wrong to be doing it without I mean i’ I’ve raised with a Hy bites for the past 20 years yeah so it’s like yeah I wouldn’t really get in a race car without a hand device yeah other thing I wanted to ask you about was one laap qualifying that was introduced in 2003 um did you like the pressure of that being out on the track on your own yeah it was weird it and I did well at it but it was for me the four laps were the best when they used to call it 12 laps the the fourl qualifying for me it was so good cuz why did you prefer that because you could build on it like so the way I always looked at it is okay Lab One let’s match what we did in practice if you can match what you did in practice or even a little better because you got to take less fuel you started really well because so if the first run you’re on par with practice it means from now on whatever you do it’s a plus and and if you already did this it means you like if you a car for the pole that first lap was good enough maybe for six seven eight place so it means even if I throw the car off now I’m starting in a de decent place that’s a bit of a comfort blanket for you yeah so every time you did a lap faster it was better and I remember my engineer used to tell me and even the mechanics when we were going out like in like 2002 when I got all those polls they used to tell me at the end of qualifying they go like when it was closed they said they would come to me and say either bring in P1 or bring it in a truck yeah like we’re we don’t care fixing the car just go for it how does that help you mentally when when you’ve got your team saying it’s really comfortable because a lot of people and mechanics get really moody when you crash a car and then you start feeling oh I don’t want to do that you know what I mean and when in your mind crashing the car is irrelevant you normally don’t crash it because you but you’re not thinking about it and and you’re so comfortable so basically where the way I looked at it in qualifying anywhere where the car didn’t move it means it could go quicker and that was the mentality is like if I break and between finishing the break and getting on the gas I had space means I needed to break later can you can’t really get any earlier on the gas because you need to do the corner but if you had to wait like break and and roll oh you can go 5 10 me later on the bre you loved walking the tight rope driving that tight rope and in high speed if you went and the car didn’t freaking tail slap or anything it means you could go quicker Juan Pablo I think a lot of people watching and listening to this think of you as this feisty racer on a Sunday but actually hearing you talk about qualifying like this makes me think actually was qualifying the bit that you enjoyed the most the thing in my time the races were qualifying we qualified every lab one of the coolest experience I had in F1 is when we you know I started doing all the testing with Michelin and I came from indicard where you had to you know manage the tires a little bit not like today but you you couldn’t you know beat the tires of of the car so I went and then I’m I remember I went like really good lab okay and then he backed off and then it got better and better like just managing the pace and I stopped and they said is the tire coming back I said no no I’m just managing and they got mad at me and they go no we need you to qualify every lap just we need you to destroy the tire like like you did that first lap do all five laps like that first lap even if it you’re 3 seconds off please destroy the tire wow and different mentality today yes because the way they’re thinking is we need to see what’s the the failure of the tire where is the fatigue of the tire what do we need to work on to make it better and I I’ll give you the best example and I was just getting started but my first race here I remember I was running and I had panies in front of me and and in my mind I’m going I should be able to beat panties you I mean nothing against him he’s really you know I mean he’s done H you know he wanton Monaco everything but in my mind I’m thinking I got to be PES and and I’m he’s in front of me and I’m running I think P6 and I’m in the points and I’m going oh my God like I’m he’s driving away from me so I push harder okay still a little and I push harder and I keep pushing and I’m like qualifying every lap I go to a point now I’m like I’m I’m thinking I’m I’m pushing harder right now that I didn’t qualifying I’m like every La every and I finally started like taking a 10th away from him and I’m catching him I’m all excited and then D you blew up but then I realized it’s like oh my God you need to drive so fast the whole time you needed to qu like there were trucks where you could you never needed to manage tires there was truck other trucks where you had to uh but that there it was like oh my God and and it was really cool it’s a different experience it’s like you know we had so little D that as the fuel burned down we used to go quicker you know our our Pace got quicker not slower you love that didn’t you yeah because you’re like and they would come in the radio I’m like ju we need couple more tens and you like somehow figure out how to go quicker like you’re pushing to the Limit and then they go we need more and you go where the hell I’m going to find more and then you go I think I can throw it a little faster here and you try it and sometimes you screw up and shun to the car when you’re hiring it feels amazing to finally close out a job search but what if you could get rid of the search and just match well you can with indeed indeed is not just a job board it’s your ultimate matching and hiring platform with over 350 million Global monthly visitors and it’s on hand to help you streamline your hiring processes and connect with quality candidates faster there’s no need to manually filter through hundreds of applications anymore because indeed does the hard work for you by matching you with the right people for the job from the start and what I think is great is that you can then schedule screen and message candidates all from one place it makes a usually difficult and timeconsuming task so much easier and better yet indeed’s matching engine is constantly learning from your preferences so the more you use indeed the better it gets in fact according to a recent indeed survey 93% of employers agree that indeed delivers the highest quality matches compared to other job sites so whether you’re a small business or a big Corporation indeed has you covered join more than three and a half million businesses worldwide who trust indeed to hire great Talent fast and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at ind.com grid just go to indeed.com grid right now and support our show by saying you heard about inded on this podcast indeed.com grid terms and conditions of play need to hire you need indeed what about your Rivals at that time I wanted to ask you first of all about your teammate Ralph Schumaker what were his greatest strengths um honestly Ralph was so so good where what what made him so good speed raw speed oh my God he was so quick he played with me for so long it was so annoying he was so hard he was so hard and like the things he could do with a car in one lap Pace it was Unreal like it was really unreal and it was so annoying and so frustrating to not be able to match him at the beginning so do you think he hasn’t got the credibility that he deserves you know what’s the problem is I destroy mentally how go were you playing mind games the whole even when you were outside the car right but we were we never really talk so because so nowadays with social media and everything the teammates are best friends and they go for dinner together and they all go play paddle together in my time you didn’t talk to anybody you know I used to talk to Fernando and still do and and Ruben and Massa sometimes and that was it why so the paddock was a more hostile environment it was very hosle it was like it was it was a different like you you didn’t talk to anybody and honestly um from my Indie Car days and even from back there I think gazi had probably one of the best lines ever it said I was nice to somebody a driver somewhere and I I I wasn’t cut throw when I raced him and he got pissed at me I said if you want friends bring them you’re not here to make friends a good line yeah and it’s true yeah you know I mean it’s nowadays with the social media Everybody Talks everybody’s nice and everything and but when you’re that nice it’s hard to be an and it’s hard to pull a move where you’re going to drive the other guy of the track when you like the guy do you know when the visor comes down does that not blank everything else out yeah but if if it’s the guy you had dinner with last night it’s a lot of harder to go and throw the car and yeah I mean you’re going to race him hard but now they the rules are a little more that you can be that extreme where in my time you could just drive on a freaking RAC trck well look that leads me on to my next topic which is Michael schumacker uh he had won the previous three World titles going to that now did you treat him differently on the track tell us now because I’ve got a list in front of me of all of the well some of the incidents you guys had I’m thinking in the in the tunnel in Monaco 2004 but he yeah there emila 2004 at tosa yeah you I think you were trying to go around the outside and you said afterwards he’s either blind what did you say blind or stupid blind stupid so the TSA one is they were quicker than us but we were really quick on on Fresh tires our tires when they were new they were really good so if I had to pass him I had to go straight away and and I got there and honestly I was okay he drove me off the truck and I would have done the same thing like I was okay with it I tried like on my side I’m going to try but he drove me off the truck so I’m going to M him in and if he would have done in the interview and and they asked him what happened I said I just drove him over the track I would have been okay with it but he said I just didn’t see him you I mean he played right into it yeah and you were sat ready to no just so back to my you know the other day I saw a comment that he says that sometimes I surprise myself with the things like I don’t think like everybody thinks then then talks I talk then think and I end up surprising myself as much as everybody around me but back to my original question were you harder on Michael than you were other Michael sh no The Annoying Thing with Michael is nobody raced him when Michael was coming from the back like oh Michael’s coming everybody would get out of the way from him and that pissed me off cuz it’s like why you you I mean it’s like oh it’s Michael don’t with Michael do you think it was that or do you think it was the fact he was in a Ferrari that was so much but everybody has so much respect so he’s got them beat before he even puts his helmet on yes and the kind of my Approach with racing was I was such an racing and people thought I was so crazy that it worked because when I throw the car in they knew I was going and I wasn’t going to get out of the way so you had two choices you either give me room or we crashed well and that’s what happened at interos in 2001 yeah first season for you you caught Mich yeah yeah yeah yeah let’s say yes the short version so so with all of these incidents Juan did you say you didn’t talk to other drivers when when you’ve had an incident with Michael whether it’s a race ending incident or an overtake would you discuss it no the only time I talked to Michael we were I was racing for BMW and he was still Ferrari and norbe hog invit us to a party in nber green after the race and I said yes because we had her staying there for the night and I went there because nor invited me and it was Michael and ruins and the three of us got drunk and that was it can you remember what was said or was it was it easy between you because I think for all of the differences between most of you racing drivers there are huge similarities because you’ve all lived the same life you’ve got the same sacrifices to get to the top there are so many you’re almost I’ll give an example like you know the relationship I had with vov when we raised like it was Cutthroat you know I mean we hated each other and when I started coming back to the races we looked at each other and we just laughed about it right and and that was it I think that’s my point right yeah yeah but at the point you you remember we nearly punch each other in the driver’s meeting in Canada but I also think you were a windup Merchant right I suppose it’s the Mind Games thing you were telling example like in Canada I got in his way and he wasn’t like it it was one of those things that I I was I don’t know if I was doing an install it was the first run I was in an outop and he was coming I didn’t see him and I got in his way and he got next to me throw the car at me kind of went and I went and he break us me and I said f it I didn’t break I ran into the back of him and actually really hard and he went and the rear suspension fell and he had a massive shunt and then he blade me for the shunt as and I’m like screw you but you kind of really I see a glint in your eyes of course I enjoyed it of course because if if you look at that if you’re another driver and you look at that and I’m behind you and I throw the car in what do you think they’re going to think oh just go I don’t want to have a problem I don’t want to crash so the two wins 2003 first one comes at Monaco yeah and we were we should have won Austria before and the engine we were leading and the engine blew up it seems that BMW were right on the well they were all on the limit like the problem is nowadays they go oh my God the gearbox failed the engine failed and it’s a big drama in our time for a driver was it did was it easy to accept oh I’ve had an engine failure but we’re all pushing to the Limit these things happen like it was part of the culture you mean at the beginning you go oh my God but so Monaco Mitchell and turn up with a slightly wider front tire yeah was that the secret that allowed you to win that race no because the guys we were fighting mainly were were in Michelin as well so I think that didn’t really change well riken and was half a second behind you lap after lap on the yeah because we were going I think at like 16,000 RPM because we had no oil like they didn’t think they were actually surprised we made it to the end of the race like the last five laps I was going like short shifting like crazy you know 20,000 RPM and you’re 195 or whatever we’re going like think about your road C that it goes to 7,000 you’re shifting at 4,000 like you’re you’re not using any power did you think you weren’t going to get to the end of the race I didn’t know how bad the oil situation was but they said we need to do this or we’re not going to make it I’m okay and I just drove as slow as I could I think we had enough Pace to drive away pretty easily but so Juan PBO what was it like to win Monaco I mean the team hadn’t won that race since I think 1983 with K rosberg you know the jewel in the crown it’s described what does it mean to you so for me that’s probably that with the IND 500 wins especially the second one probably the biggest wins for me because I grew up watching Senna and Senna was all about Monaco you know what I mean and in my time that was the only Street course the only time you went to a street race was Monaco so that was in itself was really cool so you know it’s the only time in the year you took a Formula One car to a street course and I think that’s really cool like for example F3 the only Street course they do is Monaco and I think that was really nice it it it makes it unique even more unique if if you can say the other win came at hawen home and you were utterly dominant that weekend yeah and we only had 80% thrt fastest lap yeah and and we had only 80% throttle from like halfway of the race like I remember I going into the stadium and the thing shut down and he came back and we had less power and they yeah yeah I just manage it to the end and funny enough we really only had 80% throttle and we nearly left the field but I think part of there being so fast that there was a Shun in turn one that made the race easier and I was on a three-stop race and most of them were in a tw- stop and the deck was a little high that that so made a huge difference what is it like to dominate a weekend like that so different I think something that was different then than now with the tire war and everything it was it that it was not only you that were competitive so when we were competitive McLaren was competitive youan or BR were competitive or Rena was competitive where in the other side when Ferrari was competitive was Ferrari I think what was the other team minori we only two teams on the other tire so feral was was harder and the other thing that was hard is Michelin had to be a the tired to make three or four teams happy and everybody’s asking for different things like we’re asking for traction and McLaren is asking for front end so what do they do they kind of I think you could pick different tires yeah so they they the jist was just longer for them than it was for yeah exactly and and there were weeks where you had to compromise a little bit and weeks where they had to compromise a little bit Yeah but it was good it was I I enjoyed it for me it was really cool because it was just you know I mean always finding ways to make the car better for me the the technical side of the driving was really cool like like making the car better and figure out how to make the car better that for me was probably the coolest thing about the rating hackenheim was mid-season at that point you’ve just dominated that weekend what were you thinking about the championship I wasn’t I never did really no I never did because with the with the Ferrari and the Bridgestone every time they got better then they would just go out and and do what I did but they instead of doing it one time a year like I did they used to do it seven eight times a year cuz after the early season fly ways Schumaker was back in I think P6 in the championship he had a very slow start okay you’d had you know the Austria blow up and and those some unfortunate things but I felt you had momentum at that time yeah we did but I don’t you I mean you take it ra by race and you see what happens but again you don’t know how the development is and how everything goes and even with everything that happened we were looking pretty decent but I don’t like counting my eggs before you know what I mean it’s like you need to focus on the job in hand and the job in hand is the easiest way to win a championship is to win raisers now I did want to talk to you about Monza 03 uh scene of your first win of course couple of years earlier but Ralph schumacker didn’t do that race because he’ had a crash did it yeah he he’ had a crash at the lesmo in testing and he he was suffering a bit soia comes in how much did it affect you having a different inexperienced wingman nothing right nothing because we never shed anything yeah okay but maybe for the team just not to have Ral stay I mean you still finished second in that race but I was just wondering if in somehow affected you no h honestly there was there was so little interaction between the two cars and we did so much testing anyway you know I mean you like mon used to what five seven days of testing the couple weeks before there well you didn’t figure out you didn’t figure out you don’t need a teammate to figure it out you know what I mean I don’t know I relied on myself a lot more than on other people right you know you said that you and Jack vov laughed when you first hooked up and I guess you chat quite a lot now in The Paddock together what about when you and Ralph see each other now so with Ralph was funny because when I went to McLaren he went to Toyota we looked at each other we just laugh oh it happened as quickly as that yeah yeah yeah yeah we we looked I think the first race and we look at each other and we just laugh at each other looking at the suits is there anything that you could have done differently in 2003 that would have somehow changed the end result not really do you feel it was in terms of the seasons you did in Formula 1 do you feel it was a good one I think it was as good as 04 or 02 you know what I mean is the the result something that happens in this port the effort you put in doesn’t match the result you get sadly enough because there’s years that you work your butt off and you do everything by the book and you get to the race and you have races somebody runs over you you go off you make a mistake and qualifying you do this and it doesn’t matter and sometimes when you’re trying harder it’s easier it’s harder to get better things and sometimes when you relax and you let things come to you you actually perform better sounds like golf yeah it’s the same thing you know what I mean you try with golf it’s like if somebody tells you don’t crash the car in your mind you’re thinking okay whether is it a go you know sorry you can tell you know I mean to tell to to screw off and but in the back of your mind you’re still thinking about it you know I mean so sometimes being relaxed about it and letting it happen and just you know I mean like have a little more self-belief and just like I’m going to prove everybody wrong for me probably that was the biggest drive like the way I looked at is if you can do it I can do it better I don’t think I’m better than you I never felt myself better than anybody but if they said oh like arou 2002 arou before they repaved I went flat through aou before in the morning because it raining qualifying I went flat the last half of practice it’s going to have to be flat somehow might as well just get rid get get out of the system and I tried it and I did a flat seems to me that one of your greatest qualities was your competitiveness um you just love competition am I right yes ask him well in fact let’s let’s bring him in so him is son Sebastian uh am I competitive no no no no no here the same no Sebastian this is I feel history repeating itself because of course you’re now racing in Formula 3 we’re speaking in Melbourne scene of your Podium last year was there ever any doubt in your mind that you were going to be a racing drug yes when I was very very very young ER I remember that when we would go to Columbia I used I used to ride like dirt bikes and stuff and when they got me the go-kart I would think to myself like why would I want to do caring that’s too slow like like my Motocross is quick like why would I and then they gave me a bigger gokart and I went this is nice and then they gave me a faster one and this is nice and then a faster one and I went yeah this is it so so the first love was two wheels so yeah it’s kind of funny because we gave him a like a baby cart but we limit the hell out of it because you know he’s like three four years old and you I mean you don’t want him to go and hit his head into steering wheel or you know what I mean it’s a little truck so we limited where he could go pretty much flat out and just go and if he crash it would you know I mean and he didn’t enjoy it too much he wasn’t too keen and then back home in Colombia you know we had couple you know we came some kid squads and things and I think that’s where he came from and then once you know once he got old enough where we felt he could you know drive without injuring himself then we when we turned it up they got you got more power under your right foot but sebas just tell us a little bit about your career so far I mean p Pablo talked about formula 4 but just a very quick resume so we know what you’ve done so far yeah so I did two years in Formula 4 funny enough the two years I race with OE and it was quite fun then I did one year in Formula Regional European championship and the past two years I’ve been racing Formula 3 and what is it like having a dad who’s been there done it it’s really good obviously because he knows a lot it’s very annoying because he knows a lot so he’s right like I think that was something really difficult at the beginning like because our relationship was father and son and then when I started going through caring it was my dad’s really annoying like just like come on like calm down there like I don’t I don’t like you’re not that good and then you just kind of go well maybe he is that good if he’s won a couple races like I think he’s decent and like you just start to realize and especially as I’ve grown up I kind of go like oh yeah and I think the biggest like moment that I went yeah he’s good is we were racing in Watkins Glenn because we used to we did a couple endurance races togethers and we we were racing in Watkins Glenn and in practice I was a bit quicker than him and then I remember we got into the race and the fastest lap was his and then I just started pushing and pushing and pushing and in F3 F4 and Regional you have to manage the tires just like F1 and with the Michelin that they had in endurance racing there was no managing so I was pushing and pushing and pushing and I remember there’s only been two times in my life where I go this is sketchy this is this is on the edge and one of them was racing maau last year and then the other one was in Watkins Glenn where I did the carousel flat I break to the next corner and I didn’t even turn the steering wheel I was doing like 220 something like that and the car is rotating by itself and I’m saying oh this is good I come out of the corner and I’m a 10th and a half quick and I’m like this is it one buo you’ve done so much racing in your career how special were those sports car races that you did with saas it was really cool I think we had probably more fun doing it in America than NE LMS the way the rules are personally I think it’s better um so the races in America were you know the ones we did together were a lot of fun we had a lot of fun as well well doing Elms but it was I think a little different and how useful is it for you with your data Bank you you’ve had the career you know where the potholes are how does that help sebass well it helps a lot with the team understanding what he needs what we’re missing and everything but as well I’ll give an example I think a good example is last year I I saw Andreas Stella and we were talking about you know how things and you know about Tire management and things to do and la la la and you know last year he was a a junior driver with Red Bull so I said you know I mean he wanted to help I said no it’s okay thank you like yes but I never really pursue it and this year you know he’s still with Red Bull but as an athlete not under the junior program so I thought you know I saw Andrea in in brain and we you know I watch a lot of the practices and things in the McLaren garage and we were talking about actually this morning we were with Andrea this morning talking about you know things to do you know I think it’s good for him to see not only what I think and what my point of view but a guy like like Stella that I mean she what he done with McLaren it’s unbelievable it is uh somebody like him to be able to to give some advice to sebas about it I think is it was really cool yeah and and I think it’s good because it’s not the I think we have really good relationship now and we understand each other and we we work really well together and we have a really good relationship but I think sometimes still good to hear from somebody else how difficult is it for you to sometimes hang back um and not tell him exactly what you’re thinking or do you I do tell him what I think when espe when he does well I don’t tell him as much as when he does bad School of Hard Knocks yeah you I mean I’m do you get nervous watching him it sucks yeah it’s so much better being a driver it’s a cool experience you know what I mean but as a you know I mean the D side is it’s is kind of hard but it’s what you know I mean you got to be there in the good and the bad and in the evil you know what I mean it’s we went for example this year to pin to do the precision testing and he was sick in three days we did what 15 laps in three days we did a 12 lap long run and couple of short runs but he was so sick we didn’t do anything we didn’t learn anything yeah and and then you get to the race weekend when everybody did full three days of testing we haven’t done anything and you do one lap in practice Yeah and and it’s tough because so what they had all the reference they thought they needed none of them work and and you go wide and you miss the corners in that single lap next you go out to qualify it’s like so where do you start you know what I mean and you only got three gos at it and it makes it really hard hard and sebas do you feel you’ve made up for that now that lack of running in testing do you feel you’re now back up to speed compared to your Rivals yeah I think something quite good is since the second year I have the experience so I can back that up with the experience from last year but even switching teams because last year I was with Hightech this year I’m with Campo so learning the car and how you have to drive it obviously it’s quite difficult like as my dad said three days of testing doesn’t sound a lot but in F in F3 when you have one practice that you do a lap it makes a big difference what is the plan so it’s F3 now have you got it mapped out in your head what the next few seasons look like or or is it not possible to do that in Motor Racing it’s quite difficult cuz I the best example is o a couple weeks ago he was racing F2 pulled it an F2 and then congrats in baring you didn’t score any points you got your pull position but now you’re not racing F2 you’re racing a one so I think it’s really difficult to exactly plan out how everything goes I think Oscar as well for example he’s a really good examp example that he won everything until Formula 2 and then you’re year out and like nowadays it’s really hard to plan exactly what you’re going to do but for me the goal is Formula One and I this is my second year second year in F3 I’m going to be fighting for the championship that’s my hope I’m going to be fighting for wins and that’s the plan I have next year Formula 2 and see what happens after that well very good luck with that what’s the best bit of advice that the old man’s given you enjoy like you put so much work into it and stuff that sometimes you forget to enjoy it like for example like bar like I worked all winter like for those three days those three days where you just work every single day you go to the gym get all the Reps in go on the runs like those bad days when you don’t want to get out of bed and you do it just for those three days you’re ill and you do 12 laps you just kind of go you have to be kidding me really yeah and something in barin that I realized is I have an amazing opportunity I’m racing F3 I’m really fast the speed’s okay it’s it’s it’s just one of those things where you just kind of have to step back and realize all the work you’ve done and where you are now and just kind of go not too bad it’s not too bad it’s quite nice well look best of luck can I just have the old man back now just very quickly um JPM we always end these now with some quick fire questions that I just wanted to throw at you okay uh I asked the same to everybody what else are you good at a lot of stuff no I’m serious things with coordination uh physics stuff like that I’m really good I don’t know I just catch things really easy sebas what else is he good at golf golf really yeah Golf and I used to be I when I when I left NASCAR I was a 200 handicap 1.7 or something index oh wow okay that’s decent yeah I would say more than decent sorry I don’t mean to now last so last year I hadn’t we picked it up last year this year we haven’t played because the weather in Europe but last year I got at the end of last year I was a 6.6 index which racing driver Dead or Alive would you want to be stuck in a lift with a race car driver stuck with a LIF with not even me yeah exactly um probably Senna just this is the only guy I looked up to he would probably hate it because that would be really annoying but yeah who would play you in a film Kevin hard about the same height he’s funny yeah I don’t know probably uh JPM who is the coolest person in your address book yeah I don’t know I have let’s see oh yeah Jay valvin probably valvin the singer he spends a lot of time with lwis okay and goes to comes to a lot of F1 races is always on the grid and stuff is huge and and he’s in your address but yeah yeah yeah yeah it’s kind of funny because a lot of his friends are big fans so a lot of times we do video calls and stuff it’s kind of funny who would be your first guest if you hosted a podcast if I wanted to get the attention of people probably Ralph I would watch that you see so good to catch up with you again thank you for your time soas good luck with e