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John is joined by Colin Ward-Henniger of CBS Sports to look at the Mavs evening their series with OKC, the Celtics disaster of a performance in Game 2 at home against the Cavs, the mess in Phoenix, Jay Wright’s appearance yesterday on BTA, & previews of tonight’s two Game 3s.
0:00 Intro
1:11 Mavs/OKC
1:55 Luka’s Comeback Game
6:30 Josh Giddey’s Fit
10:30 Thunder’s Bright Future
12:07 Celtics/Cavs
14:30 Allen/Mobley Fit
16:15 What Is Wrong With The Celtics & Jayson Tatum?
21:30 Blaming Frank Vogel
28:30 Jay Wright’s Interview Reaction
33:20 Knicks/Pacers Game 3
40:25 Wolves/Nuggets Game 3
welcome to a Friday edition of Beyond The Arc I’m your host John Gonzalez and I am joined making his BTA debut from CBS sports.com it’s Colin Ward henar what’s up man what’s up John how you doing thanks for having me I’m happy to be here I was a relief pitcher in college so I’m used to coming in and saving Andor blowing leads so we’ll see which one happens today this is fantastic I I expect that you’ll do the save you’ll pull the save you’re not a Craig Kimbrell in my mind I’m so glad that like Baltimore has to deal with that not Phil this year but yeah no Ashley today no bill bill is on some uh extravagant retreat with his child so we had to call in the big guns uh for a little relief stint here very excited to have you though later in the show we’re going to discuss Frank vogle taking the fall in Phoenix the suns are reportedly set to hire Mike buholzer I talked to Jay Wright yesterday about the Nova next we’re gonna play some of that and we’re gonna preview tonight’s playoff games but first Cavs and Mavs even their respective Series going to start with the Mavs they beat the Thunder last night 119 110 that series is even at 1-1 it snaps a 10 game winning streak for the Thunder they had won eight at home in a row good shooting night col for the Mavs they hit 48.6 from three and an unusually rough night from Deep for o from OKC they don’t take a lot in terms of volume but they’re really efficient they had the highest three-point percentage in the regular season but just made a third of their shots last night and here’s the big deal Luca he’s questionable with a n had a shooting slump in four games prior to last night tonight he was five for 35 from deep in game two goes for 29 10 rebounds seven assists and five of his eight from three he needed that one yeah I mean when you look at LCA like he came out and was like I’m not gonna have another bad game like this just isn’t happening in the first quarter puts up 16 points knocks down four five threes uh the Mavs get out to a 13-2 lead and that’s when the Thunder that’s when you know you’re in trouble right is when Lucas starts having that confidence he starts having that Swagger and you see what happens this is the way this Mavericks team is built especially offensively is that once Luca gets going that’s what opens up all the shooters right they were getting wide open looks early and then at that point it’s just a numbers game are the Mavs gonna be able to knock down threes and then you see guys like PJ Washington starting to get going Josh Green came in hit a couple threes uh Tim Hardaway Jr was huge Off the Bench so when Kyrie Irving has nine points in a game and you win easily uh you know things are going well for you nine points on eight shots weird Kyrie night weird night for the Mavs and somehow they end up pulling it out and a big one there obviously as you mentioned was PJ Washington goes for 2911 it’s a playoff career high for him he had seven of his 11 threes I don’t where were you on when they acquired PJ I was a big PJ fan I thought it was going to be great uh they insert him in him and Gafford they really changed the complexion of of that defense I don’t think anybody expected him to jack up 11 threes and make seven of them no I I don’t think so I mean maybe Nico Harrison is sitting there patting himself on the back saying I saw this one coming the whole way guys I mean I tried to tell you but it’s hard to tell with those guys right because because PJ Washington was in Charlotte Daniel Gafford was in Washington not winning situations you have no idea how they’re going to respond in in a game with this much pressure and PJ Wash’s had some bad games I think I asked one of our writers has he actually made a three in the playoffs yet because it seemed like every time he got an open look he would miss it so uh they needed a game like this from him he needed a game like this and now the question is can you carry that forward in the series that’s going to be the big question can you replicate it that is a great question what where were you on this series before we started I I had the thunder in seven uh I think Bill had the Thunder as well and then Ashley went with the Mavs we’re we’ve been bullish on both teams I think it’s going to be a great series and now that the Mavs have tied it up they’re in control of it but what did you have yeah I had Thunder and S as well uh I I it was so hard to tell cuz that first round series against the Pelicans I’m like the Thunder Wind the Championship that’s it they’re the best team I’ve ever seen in my life I don’t care how young they are but how play team that actually presents some sort of you know a front to them because the Pelicans you know no offense to them they just weren’t a matchup that was going to give them any challenge but you look at the Thunder during the regular season right third in offense fourth in defense uh they have the the second vote getter in the MVP race they have the profile of a championship team the only thing you can really say about them is that they’re young young and they’re inexperienced and this is where a guy like Kyrie and a guy like LCA have been through all these playoff battles you know Luca is still young you think about what he did in Europe starting when he was 14 15 years old he’s played in these high leverage games his entire life so they do have the experience advantage in terms of the superstars but I love the way this OKC team is constructed so I think I’m sticking with them in seven even after seeing what happened in game two you’ve come to the right place I wish the other two were here to hear this because all season long I was on the Thunder and all season long they were dismissive and they said exactly what you said that you know if you’re going to knock them for anything it’s that they’re young and I’m like all right that’s great look at what they’ve produced like look at their numbers look at how they keep winning they’ve been amazing sgaa has been so consistent I love the construction of this team s pry should be GM of the year for the next 100 years I mean like they they’re so ahead of the C seriously man like they’re so young they’re winning right now they still be making first round picks at that time too thank you yes they’ve got a zillion picks for the next 20s something years I mean like they are this I said this the other day on Twitter it makes me so sad they’re what the process was supposed to be like they’re they’re a team that they like they identified players yeah myself and all of the philadelphians out there it sucks because Sam hky was a Visionary and he got drummed out of the I always go off on this like Philadelphia Sixers process tangent but he got drummed out of the League this is what could have been in Philly and instead they’re doing it an OKC um you mentioned uh you know maybe potentially some of the holes there that they’re young and then they they don’t rebound well but that’s basically it they had an off night last night I expect them to climb back into the series I do want to ask you though I thought it something very interesting happened last night that I think we’ve all been sort of waiting for and that’s can we have a Josh giddy conversation I think it’s a conversation that needs to be had it’s probably a convers that should have been had a long time ago um it just it doesn’t fit everyone knows it doesn’t fit uh but you have a lot of Dynamics with an NBA team right so you can’t just kind of bench a guy who is supposed to be part of your future who is you know on paper one of the more talented guys on your team um but just his his inability to shoot the ball really hurts that team offensively and then you look at his major skill sets handling the ball setting up teammates driving getting into the lane those are all things that Shay gild just Alexander does when he’s on the floor so obviously what you’re mentioning is that in the second half the Thunder started Aaron Wiggins instead of Josh giddy uh this is something they’ve done during the regular season that’s not always wiggin sometimes it’s Isaiah Joe sometimes it’s Cas Wallace but I thought wiggin brought some really good energy he was he was getting on the floor he’s getting loose balls and he did make 49% of his threes this year very low volume like less than two per game uh but he does provide that spacing a little more than giddy would and and then that also allows you if you do decide to make that move in game three and bring giddy Off the Bench uh that allows you to have him as a Creator in that second unit not putting all of that pressure on Jaylen Williams to do that when uh when Shay Gilder Alexander is on the bench so I don’t know if he’s gonna make the move but I I think it’s something that is clearly the next move to be made in this series we’ve been barreling towards this all season everybody’s been talking about it when were they what are they going to do with giddy are they going to close with giddy he was just to rewind here he was minus 14 in eight minutes in the first half I checked the numbers on that uh that turns out to be not good he’s the only he was the only starter at that point to be negative in the plus minus uh the Mavs were flat out Colin hunting him in the first half they were seven for seven going at giddy uh from the floor so as you mentioned then they decided to go with Aaron Wiggins I’m I’m a Kon Wallace guy but I understand why they went with Aaron Wiggins because maybe he provides you with a little bit more offense but Wiggins finished minus 20 in 11 minutes I don’t know what they do here not just like for the rest of this series whether or not they start him or not because you know he started every game that he’s played for OKC and now you’re looking at like okay are we gonna just all of a sudden excise him from the starting rotation in the middle of the playoffs dagal is the coach of the year but that’s a hell of a move to do in the middle of a playoff series in the second round and then moving forward what do they do right because as we mentioned they have this plethora of picks he’s clearly the odd man out he doesn’t really fit he’s got one more year left on his rookie deal so I’m like super interested in like what is his second contract look like and are they even going to keep him around do they move him Sam Quinn our colleague at CBS Sports uh.com last night tweeted out that he would like to see him moved on he said San Antonio would be a nice landing spot for him although he admitted that that’s probably unlikely but but he just thinks that giddy needs to be a starting point guard instead of an offguard he doesn’t really fit with SGA what would you do with him yeah I think you need to trade him you know that’s easy for me to say sitting here in my office but um I I think that got a lot Agy in that offense that’s true I do and I got a lot of bobbleheads too but the uh you know the Thunder have been known to to move up in drafts um and this is known to be a particularly terrible draft which makes me feel like OKC is like going to zero in on some guy at number 12 and he’s going to end up being an absolute stud so um you know maybe packaging giddy with a lower pick to try to move up in the draft uh and get an asset something like that um but yeah clearly I mean you’ve mentioned all the reasons why he gets hunted on defense he can’t shoot he doesn’t extend the floor he doesn’t fit with the other members of the team uh it’s almost credit he’s awesome other than that I’m saying it’s almost a credit to him that he’s been able to be part of such a you know the number one seed in the west with all these things going against him so very talented guy very talented player but I would imagine that the Thunder are going to try their best to move on from him and try to move forward with uh and it going in a different direction yeah not a not a great game too from the Thunder but I’m still really bullish on them real quick before we move on here they have the brightest future looking forward of any team in the NBA I mean there’s some other teams that we could throw out there you get the Wolves obviously the Spurs are are less uh accomplished as a team but they do have wemi and then the Rockets were trending up this season the Celtics are loaded even though we’re going to get to them in a second they they love to play with their food uh where do the thunderf for you yeah for me it’s the Thunder and it’s all the reasons you mentioned not only what they’ve been able to do this season uh but they have an MVP caliber player in Shay they have uh the roster pieces around him they have Chad who we haven’t even really mentioned yet who’s just kind of a transformational big man in terms of his ability protect the rim and stretch the floor on the other end so uh with all those picks I think that’s the Difference Maker you look at a team like Minnesota and you say wow they’re really good they got Anthony Edward is probably going to be an MVP in this league at some point uh but they don’t have that draft capital in fact they’ve owing a lot of picks out in that Rudy go bear deal so I think with the combination of their performance uh their players that they already have plus the draft capital I I wouldn’t want to be in anyone’s shoes except OKC’s I uh desperately want an OKC wolves Western Conference Finals one because I think it would be hyper entertaining too because I think it would be not just a preview of like the future but it would be hey we’re here right now now but especially because it would be such a boon for me on this show to have Bill and Ashley uh sitting there while I talk about the two teams that I’ve been trumpeting all season long and them having to go oh yeah you were right it would be amazing uh game three on Saturday in Dallas by the way the Mavs are 0 and five in their last five game ones but have won three of those previous four Series so uh I think this is going to be a good one all right the other game from last night that tied it up the Cavs smack the Celtic on their own floor 118 to 94 that series is tied at 111 the Celtics Colin were 13 and a half Point favorites in that game that is the biggest playoff win by a double digit Underdog since 1991 I don’t even know if you were born at that time uh I was that is a very long time ago Donovan Mitchell looked awesome 297 and eight in the first half and then he went supernova hit five from Deep he he’s averaged 35.8 points per game over his last five playoff games he’s only the second Cavs play to do that I’ll give you one guess on who the other one is Donovan Mitchell’s been really good the Cavs won my question is what the hell are the Celtics doing yeah I mean they’re doing what they do every postseason right this is the Celtics that we’ve come to know and love so you know it’s funny because I’ve been trying to do some draft prep but it’s hard to do with all these playoffs going on so so I was like okay I’m gonna use Celtics games to do draft prep because they shouldn’t be close right they should be blowouts and it was a blowout just in the wrong direction that I thought it would be so upside down blowout they didn’t they didn’t make threes and this is going to be the talking point that when the Celtics don’t make three-pointers they don’t win I think they’re like 500 at home in their last three postseasons which is just unfathomable considering how good they’ve been so um it’s really where do you go from here right you get punched in the mouth same thing happened in game two in the opening round Series against Miami they came back and absolutely stomped them now this Cleveland team is a lot better than that Miami team minus Jimmy Butler and TR Rosier and all those guys so you mentioned Donovan Mitchell like last year I’m telling everybody before the playoffs start hey watch out for the cabs look they’ve got a championship makeup they got a great defense they got this this guy who goes nuts and scores 50 points and then they just get absolutely stomped by the Knicks so I’m not quite ready to go there yet with the Cav but this is a good talented team especially when Evan Mobley is playing the way that he did in game two yeah Evan Mobley’s been really good without jiren Allen he had a 211 and five two blocks and a steel playoff career high in points for him for some reason I don’t know what JB is doing there were moments there where he didn’t have one of Moy and Donovan Mitchell on the floor like at all times one of those two human beings must be on the floor for the Cavaliers like like why are you sitting them when they’re easily your two best players my other thing is I think they’ve gone as far as they can with this evmy Jared Allen experiment like the two big man thing you need to be playing one point guard three Shooters and one of the bigs and I like Jared Allen a lot I think he’s been good but the two of them together is a wonky fit I think you just place your money your bets on Evan Moy who’s younger and hope that he can eventually develop some something of an outside shot even though he’s been hyper reluctant to do that uh and then you move on from Jared Allen you get whatever you can from him and you just hope to God that you do something enough not only in this postseason but at the beginning of next season to show Donovan Mitchell please Donovan Mitchell stay in Cleveland although like that seems increasingly unlikely but you got to Tinker with this thing somehow yeah definitely and you mentioned the the kind of cumbersome fit with the big men how about the guards right you also have darar Donovan Mitchell where Garland really has has taken a step back this season and I don’t know if that’s you know intentional or or if it’s just him reading the room and saying look Donovan Mitchell this has to be his team we G to be successful H but I was a huge Darius scarland guy I know a lot of people were and I think he still has that talent but in order for him to flourish I think he needs to be uh that main guy and see how you can go with that so you mentioned kind of building uh around Evan Moy and moving on from Jared Allen I think if if Donovan Mitchell’s going to stick around you might need to think about moving Darius scarlin as well which is a a difficult proposition because he’s so young and talented um but if you’re really trying to win now I think those are the moves that you kind of have to make going forward in Cleveland but all of a sudden I mean yeah he’s young and he’s talented but that means that you could probably get a good return on him and yeah you got I mean like you have to put all your chips on just praying and trying to convince Donovan Mitchell to stick around but they pick up game as you mentioned the Celtics they love to do this they love to mess around they took the most threes during the regular season they made the most threes during the regular season last night just eight of 35 from Deep just like such a Missoula ball game where they didn’t get up enough threes and then they end up losing and then Jason Tatum he has not I don’t know what’s going on with Jason Tatum last night he looked better because his shot still isn’t falling but at least last night he got to the rack like I was begging him in game one when his shot wasn’t falling he got the the multiple switches on to Tristan Thompson who was still getting minutes in 2024 and he he had like a the first time he switched on to Tristan Thompson in game one he had a step back three and I’m like what are you doing dude like your shots not falling get to the rim try to get something and if you don’t you know convert at The Rim you’ll get fouled last night at least he did that however they lose last night right he goes for 25 seven and six and they lose and afterwards he said he has this like weird press conference where he goes well everybody likes to call us a super team but we didn’t get coach of the year we only had two allar s we didn’t have an MVP candidate and he’s like wo was me like eore when are we going to have the Jason patum big moment because you know we talk about him I was one of the guys who was who was pumping him up as he should be the fifth guy in the MVP voting I was wrong Jaylen Brunson deserved it we have done nothing but talk about other people this postseason we’ve talked about Brunson a ton rightly so SGA a ton rightly so ant and Joker and Luca and Donovan Mitchell and on and on and on when are we going to get to Jason Tatum actually doing something that deserves going oh wow look at Jason Tatum can I I I think I’m gonna put on my Jason Tatum apologist Hat real quick I I might take it off I might turn it backwards you know I don’t know but he’s been asked all year to sacrifice right and and been been lauded for sacrificing saying hey we got this team that has all these pieces all this depth uh I don’t need to be the guy that’s going to go out there and score 30 35 points every single night I’m G to let the game come to me I’m going to use this this team that has this incredible Talent it’s in fourth quarters he loves to ISO herob ball I mean that that I think is what they need from him in the playoffs but then you can’t knock him on that during the regular season and then get mad at him for not doing it in the playoffs you I’m doing both yeah I mean you can I’m welcoming that but I I think that look this league this is a Superstars League we know that and the teams that win are the teams that have a guy or two who you can go to in the club every single time and say here take the ball go get us a bucket Jason Tatum for all of his talents for all his accomplishments just hasn’t been that guy yet in the postseason uh and it doesn’t look like he’s he’s going to be that based on what we’ve seen this postseason uh so then you’re looking at the Celtics and saying you have this amazing roster this amazing team uh but what’s going to happen during crunch time and close games uh and that is really the concern if you’re a Celtics fan if you’re someone who thinks that the Celtics are going to go all the way this time is that they really have haven’t solved that problem of clutch offense so you know you can say that Chris D porzingis was there wasn’t there uh he could get you a couple postup buckets if you’re struggling to score but obviously we all know that Chris Das porzingis isn’t the answer it’s got to be Jason Tatum or Jaylen Brown uh and so far it’s been neither so they’ve just been relying on their talent and their depth uh we’re going to start to need to see Jason Tatum step up if they’re going to turn into this championship team that despite what Jason Tatum says everyone thinks they are I I was with you I had my Jason Tatum apologist hat on all season long and I took it off I yeah that’s enough for me I I didn’t I didn’t want to be in a position where I was defending a Boston Celtic player anyway and I got forced into it because I think he’s a really good player with the exception of as as you mentioned like the clutch offense just grinds to a halt and well it had during the regular season where you know they have a really good effective offense but for whatever reason they get into these tight games and then all of a sudden it’s Jason Tatum herob ball ISO time and he was really bad at it and then we get into the postseason and he can’t knock down a shot his shot you know he’s in a shooting slump uh I don’t know I would like to see more from Jason Tatum is all I’m saying not not necessarily on behalf of the Boston Celtics because I wish nothing but ill upon them in their fan base a lot I have a lot of Boston Celtics fan friends who are otherwise lovely human beings but are much like Nicks fans ins sufferable so I don’t know we’ll see whether or not Jason Tatum can out of this game three on Saturday in Cleveland we’ll see what happens out of that we’re gonna take a quick break and when we come back we’re going to discuss the Suns hanging the scapegoat all around for Frank Fogle he’s out Mike buher might be in that’s coming up on Beyond The Arc and there started to get in the groove so impressive block your schedules aces are coming to CBS Sports Network all right welcome back to Beyond The Arc John Gonzalez and Colin Ward hener making his first ever BTA appearance we’re very excited about that be sure to check us out wherever you get your favorite podcast you can download and subscribe please and leave us a review all right the Suns Colin uh I guess I want to say I’m not surprised they didn’t have a lot of levers that they could pull here I don’t think this was on Frank vogle they won 49 games guy has a championship it was about like roster construction for me and the big three and I use that in in super super air quotes not performing but they had to blame somebody and it was Frank Vogal they fired him despite the fact that he had a five-year deal they got swept by the wolves in the first round they decided he was gonna have to take the blame for this they are reportedly set to hire Mike budenholzer what do you think of this I think you know what the Suns really need as a coach is somebody who’s won a title in the last five years somebody who knows how to handle Superstar players and somebody who’s been a really good defensive coach over the last few seasons oh wait that’s Frank vogle they they just fired him so they just hired a duplicate of the guy they already had so I mean look you you know how this works the somebody’s got yeah word on the street is that Kevin Durant was kind of checked out wasn’t really listening to Frank boogo and once that happens it’s either you know it’s me or the coach and obviously they’re gonna pick Kevin Durant over Frank Bogle so uh look things didn’t work out in Phoenix I was one of those guys that kept saying hey if they put it together if they put it together and they had these stretches where they play four or five games and you say oh boy here they come this is going to be the team and that’s why they were favored in that first round series against Minnesota and boy were we all wrong uh they just did not have it they don’t have they don’t have you got a what do you have in your pocket you’re saying we one of us on this show picked the Wolves uh and the other one I guess was you and also Bill P picked the Suns as well in a famous bet that he lost uh hero and Beyond The Arc but I was bullish on the Wolves the Suns like they didn’t get it together all season they were super inconsistent All Season like I don’t know I just I did I feel like this was a massive failure of roster construction yeah it really was and and if you’re going to have such a thin roster below the superstars the superstars have to be Supernova incredible and they just weren’t and this is you know we’re counting a few postseasons now where Kevin Durant hasn’t been look he’s Kevin Durant he’s always great but he hasn’t been the crazy crazy top top elite elite elite um so if you’re looking at this team moving forward obviously Devon Booker is tremendous Bradley Beal what have we really seen from him uh these guys can’t stay healthy I don’t know what you’re doing with if you’re Mike buen hols or you come in and you look at this roster even whatever moves they can make around the fringes over the summer and you’re saying what how are we going to get better next season so maybe they can design a little more offense uh some kind of gimmicky defensive schemes but when you don’t have the Personnel I don’t really know what there is to do but like you said they somebody had to take the blame and right now it’s Frank Bogle I mean that he got 49 wins out of a team that was that inconsistent and that was absolutely Beyond awful in the fourth quarter the worst fourth quarter offense in the NBA by a million miles doubled up on the next worst team and then also that that he got that team into like the middle of the pack defensively like what what are we talking about here for poor Frank vogle and also you knew at the end of the season when Frank vogle was asked about it and he’s like hey do you think you’re confident that you’re gonna be back and he’s like oh yeah Matt told me ishia told me I’m totally gonna be back I’m like oh man start packing your things you’re screwed ishia by the way had an unbelievable press conference where he was like no no no everything’s good we didn’t play it previously on the show we absolutely must play it now this is from the end of the season where ISB is like no the guy’s not falling oh it’s extremely fixable I mean let’s let’s just be real although this isn’t a cool narrative and the national media really won’t want to play it out there but like ask the other 29 GMS 26 of them would trade their whole team for our whole team and our whole our draft picks and everything as is like the house is not on fire we’re in great position it’s not hard to fix it’s not like we’re like hey we don’t have enough talent to win a champion we have enough talent to win a championship right did we do we have enough cont we have time together like there’s a lot of things we can look at do we have like the right leadership in place do we have to add some little pieces around it’s not like we don’t have people that can score the batt not that play defense and and have one champ like we have all the things and so how fixable is it and I mean if I if you if I read the media I would think we have a lot of problems but luckily I get to spend time with you know the best players in the world in my opinion the best coaches GMS see like all these people and I get to spend time with our people and say we’re in really great shape and I wouldn’t trade our team or for our situation for anyone else’s except for I’d like to be playing right now but besides that for like how going into the offseason I feel great about it it’s not like there’s a lot of other teams that have good players that have to resign them or they’re going to lose them or then they might they’re unrestricted free agents like our starting five’s coming back I feel very good about it hilariously delusional like he gets to spend time with the best Silicon Valley energy right there oh my God he gets to spend time with the best coach he just fired one of them uh it’s totally fixable is it is it totally fix so here’s the thing because of they’re going to be uh second apron capped out next season as you know Colin that that restricts how they build their team they can only bring in minimum contracts they can they resigned Grayson Allen they can resign their own guys Royce O’Neil probably get a new contract fine but you’re hyper Limited in what you can bring into a team that is already as you mentioned super thin you can’t move Bradley Beal because as I keep harping on on this show for some unknown reason they let Bradley Beal they rescued Bradley Beal from Washington which should have been enough he should have said thank you so much I really appreciate you springing me from the prison that is the Wizards and instead they also allowed him to bring his no trade clause with him huge mistake so now you can’t move on from Bradley Beal you don’t want to move on from Devin Booker because he’s the face of your franchise he’s young and he’s in in his prime you traded a ton of capital to get KD away from Brooklyn do you really want to move on from KD already they are incred when he says this is fixable what is he talking about how John this is the national media narrative that I sick here this is just audacious how dare you he knows he’s in those rooms he knows how they’re going to fix it no I mean what else is he gonna say other teams he made this team he went out and got Kevin Durant on his first day on the job and he’s got to make sure that that he gives the message to the fans that that was the right move even if it wasn’t so uh you know I just all the things you mentioned look at the West this this is the problem right even if they’re at absolute Peak you’ve got OKC coming you’ve got Minnesota Denver’s not going anywhere uh you’ve got these teams coming up from the bottom like Houston and San Antonio so even if they are able to fix this thing and get to a level where they’re competent I still don’t see them just walking into any championships they’re gonna have to fight against these young hungry teams and at this point I just don’t know if the Suns have what it takes third highest cost in the NBA with their payroll and their tax this season get bounced in four great in the first round and is is like I love our situation it’s we tra tra positions with us who wouldn’t I I honestly it’s it’s one of the great comedic moments of the last year and I’m not just talking about in the NBA I mean like that could be a standup special all right Tom there’s two that and Tom Brady roast is beia chef’s kiss man that was amazing all right uh I want to talk about we we had Jay Wright on the show yesterday Jay Wright our colleague here at CBS Sports he’s awesome he does college basketball for them obviously former head coach of the of the Villanova Wildcats I used to cover him back when both of us were in Philadelphia now we’re teammates here at CBS and he hadn’t talked about the Nova Knicks until he came on our program yesterday and he was awesome and I highly encourage everybody to go check out the full episode that’s in our podcast feed you can also find it on our YouTube page at Beyond The Arc CBS but he hit on a bunch of different things yesterday and I just want to play this one clip because we talked about Jaylen Brunson a little bit ago and how uh you know previously I thought that it should be Tatum the number five spot Brunson ended up in the number five spot and I think rightly so but he also kind of got snubbed for Team USA and I asked Jay about it because Jay was a assistant under pop on the Olympic team in Team USA previously and here’s what he had to say about it he was definitely in the mixed I mean you know we we communicate with those guys all the time and and he is in the mixed it’s it’s become USA Basketball has become a really difficult challenge for for Grant Hill and Shawn Ford Who Run It in that you can’t you can’t have tryouts anymore you can’t you know you can’t tell a guy you know you’re going to be you’re going to be an alternate because because guys have you know they’ve got so many things going on in their lives like they’re either they either got to know they’re in or they got to be out so I I I know he was very very closely considered he was a big part of the World Cup team they probably went with halberton just because of a little bit more side in international basketball it’s a different game his size probably is what just put him over the hump but I I know Jaylen and and he would love to be a part of the Olympic team and um but I know he respects the process that they have to go through to pick the team and hopefully the next the next run he’ll be on that squad or you never know right how this thing goes somebody gets hurt you never know where he is on that roster in USA basketball’s mind and what a season for Jaylen Brunson that like one he gets his first All-Star nod 2 he’s in the MVP conversation now we’re talking about oh did he get snubbed for Team USA I I mean especially because of the way halberton has been playing post All-Star I understand what Jay’s saying in terms of size he’s a bigger guy International game is different but man wouldn’t you like to see Jay I I don’t know you tell me I would have had Jaylen Brunson on this team it’s already a loaded team but I understand what he’s saying about halber yeah I mean are we still doing the size thing is that still a thing in 2024 you’re talking about size tyres hbert is 120 pounds I I love the guy but look if you’re talking about oh the international game is more physical he’s gonna get bullied around way more than jayen Brunson who’s got a center of gravity that’s about an inch off the ground and can get to any spot he wants on the floor so you know who knows when these decisions are ultimately made but uh I think you know halber had a great first half of the year um he’s a more dynamic dnamic kind of electric point guard gets his teammates involved a little bit more with his passing uh but if you’re looking for an absolute dog a guy who’s just not gonna take no for an answer uh Jaylen brunson’s clearly that guy in this playoff series where they’re going head-to-head uh is so far at least is really working in brunson’s favor in terms of saying hey maybe we should have taken that guy our producer Aaron points out that Jaylen Brunson is a little bit more ball dominant he really needs it for himself and you you already have Stephen KD and Lebron and ant and embiid and a bunch of like super high usage rate guys I would counter with this Jaylen Brunson as Jay mentioned during our conversation is just an absolute winner and has been everywhere he goes and he’s having an unbelievable season and I would like to watch him on Team USA that’s my argument I think it’s a pretty good one give me the best players just take the best players we’ll figure it out take the best players we’ll figure it out but the conversation with Jay was absolutely delightful he’s a wonderful human being we talked about all things Nova Knicks we ran through you know what Josh Hart is like he’s a wild human being and Dante d chenzo and Jaylen Brunson and we asked them all kinds of different questions about the Nova Nick so go check that out as I mentioned you can find the full interview on our podcast feed and our YouTube page at Beyond The Arc CBS Please Subscribe hit the like button leave a comment all that good stuff all right we’re GNA take a quick break and then we’re going to preview those two games tonight involving the Nova Knicks and the Pacers and then also who else do we have tonight oh yeah the nuggets and the Wolves that’s coming up right here on Beyond The Arc golf’s brightest stars head to the Bluegrass State for the second major of the season the PGA champion ionship May 18th and 19th on CBS all right welcome back to beyond the arc on a Friday wrapping up the show with Colin Ward hener has been kind enough to join us uh let’s start with the Knicks and the Pacers Knicks are up 20 in that series Pacers are actually favored tonight by seven and a half Brunson is questionable with a foot injury he went for 29 uh the other night on one foot really remarkable really my guy Jaylen Brunson I’m going to claim him now uh but he didn’t you know he got bounced out of the first half and everybody was like freaking out about it and then he comes back Willis Reed style ends up with 29 Points in that game he was remarkable ogan andovi was sort of the reverse he was awesome in the first half and then in the second half he ends up with a hamstring injury he leaves doesn’t return now he’s already been ruled out how worried should the Knicks be about these injuries they got a lot of them I mean in a in for any other team I’d be really worried but for some reason the Knicks it doesn’t really seem to matter they just continue to go out there uh and dominate no matter who’s on the floor and I wouldn’t say dominate but you know win win compete every single night and that’s the Tibido mentality right yeah I mean they do that is the Tibido mentality but I do want to say like I you and I’m sure you as well but I for sure love to like laugh about tibs shortening his rotations and like we all know that he loves to run his guys into the ground but we’re reaching a point of critical mass here and I I just want to throw this out I’m not saying there’s uh correlation or causation here but ogan anobi before he got hurt averaged 46 minutes over those previous four games he had never played that much in his yeah look at your eyes he had never played that much in his career in four of the last five seasons he failed to play more than 50 games he was playing and he was already hurt earlier this season he’s playing a ton tibs loves to do this he loves to play his starters massive minutes but like you know at some point maybe you need to ease off the throttle with a guy who has injury history yeah Lu alang has entered the chat he basically yeah right I mean like he’s gonna dust off Taj Gibson like yeah so I mean yes but last week a lot of people were praising the Knicks for not embracing the load management see he played his guys big minutes in the regular season and look how ready they are for the playoffs so it does kind of cut both ways but if you just think about it uh you know the more minutes you’re on the floor the more opportunity there is for injury that that is a fact and but uh it is a concern and and Tibido go you know shortening the the rotation you know Duce McBride has a great game and then maybe he doesn’t even play the next game or he plays five minutes and comes out uh they’re gonna need someone to step up in Anon obi’s absence I mean he was the guy who carried the Knicks in that first half when Brunson was hurt uh now they’re going to need somebody on a team that already lacks creation outside of Jaylen Brunson they’re going to need Dante d venzo to step up maybe they dust off Alec Burks get him out there a guy who we know can get Buckets over the course of his career uh but you know it’s going to be if Brunson plays which I expect he probably will because you know he would need his foot amputated to not get out there um it’s going to be a lot of Brunson a lot of minutes and a lot of stress on that foot yeah I mean they’re thin and Getting Thinner no Mitchell Robinson no Buon they’re gonna have to throw precious out there a lot more McBride as you mentioned Alec Burke any1 we’re getting to the point now where like we’re heading for like Tom Tibido as Jee Hackman in hooers he’s GNA have four guys out there and the ref’s going to say you only have four guys out there and he’s going to be like my my team’s on the floor we’re going we’re going with three four guys and that’s just going to be it uh what the Pacers do before we move on to the other series what the Pacers do is there any way for them to potentially slow down Brunson I mean he’s been awesome this postseason it’s been awesome All Season TJ McConnell was actually okay against him he was plus 10 and 23 minutes in game two they didn’t have him out there late I actually like when they go double guard with him and halberton uh but is there any chance of them slowing down Brunson yeah I think I mean you know maybe a little more McConnell I think to me that might be a little overblown the people are acting like he’s this this absolute stopper you know like Tony time or something and yeah he can slow him down he pick him up full court do all the things that kind of harass him but Bron’s seen all that stuff before it’s not going to slow him down over the course of a game I think really what the answer is to trap him get the ball out of his hands uh they tried that during the fourth quarter uh in game two and it just didn’t work the rotations weren’t solid the Knicks got a lot of open threes and dunks and that also opens you up for all the offensive rebounding that the Knicks are so great at in those four on- three situations so uh I think they just you know especially with noan and Obi uh make someone else beat you try to get the ball out of his hands see how that goes uh ultimately Brunson as we talked about is just gonna do what he wants to do on the floor for some reason you just cannot stop him these days uh but I think that’s the answer is to try to get the ball out of his hands and just hope the other guys aren’t able to step up yeah I mean you’re right TJ isn’t uh you know a defensive stopper proper what he is though is like a hypers spaz right I mean like I love him I I covered him in Philadelphia he’s just like all energy and all effort like he’s like the Deadpool it’s maximum effort all the time like he’s just out there running around like a crazy person uh I I am before we move on I mentioned this to Chris Walker on yesterday’s show and he said he likes the way that the Knicks are playing in terms of like trying to beat the Pacers at their going game right Pacers love to play fast they were second in Pace this season Knicks Were Somehow last during the regular season and I get that the Pacers are a bad defensive team there’s the second worst defensive rating behind only the Suns this postseason but is it surprising to you at all that the Knicks are playing very fast and they put up 130 points in the second game it blows my mind yeah it is surprising and one of the reasons I picked the Knicks I think I picked them in five was that I thought they were G to slow down I said you know I think the Knicks are going to have an easier time bringing the Pacers down to their Pace than the Pacers will have bringing the Knicks up to their pace and so far their Knicks are like all right you want to play fast we got Shooters we got one of the best offensive players in the league let’s do it let’s have a shootout so um I do think you know the series tend to slow down as the teams get to know each other a little bit better so I think that also works in the Nicks favor U but if you’re the Pacers this is your game you know you’ve gotten beaten in two games but you can’t change now you got to keep pushing the pace trying to get those open threes uh let halberton do his thing halberton needs to be more aggressive we saw in the first half of game to and they look great and then in the second half he I think he had one shot or two shots in the third quarter and that’s when the Knicks made their move so uh we talked about halberton versus Brunson in Team USA uh he’s gonna have to establish himself as being you know maybe not on brunson’s level but at least close to it if the Pacers are gonna have any chance in this series 10,000% and I get and Chris made this point yesterday that you know Halle Burton’s game isn’t necessarily I’m just going to get mine I get that he’s an awesome facilitator but they needed that in the second half he disappeared until like late in the third quarter he didn’t have a field goal until like three minutes left in the third in the third period And I was like what are you doing dude you had 22 in the first half they need you to step up so uh game three tonight as I mentioned the Pacers are favored we’ll see if they can get one off the Knicks and then the other game three tonight talking about seeing if they can get a game here nuggets and the Wolves I was super excited for this series wolves come out and smack Denver to take a two nothing lead beat him twice on their own floor and their favorite at home tonight by four and a half Jo ER got his third MVP in four years the other night he shot 59% from the floor against the Lakers in the first round Colin just 42% so far against the Wolves he needs to be better Jamal Murray needs to be better and less petulant he got fined for throwing something on the floor but not suspended what do you make of the Nuggets right now can they climb back into this thing I’m kind of shocked by how this Series has gone so far I think shocked is a great word you know it kind of reminds me of the Warriors series against the Kings last year where I was covering that series and the whole time I’m thinking oh they’re the Warriors they’re coming off a Championship uh you know they got Steph Curry they’ll figure it out and then as the series went along you just started to realize this king’s team they’re just better they’re more physical they’re faster uh they want it more uh obviously the Warriors ended up winning that series thanks to Steph’s 50-point game uh but that that’s what the nuggets are going to need uh I think if you look at these two teams what we’ve seen in the first two games Minnesota’s the better team uh they have Anthony Edwards they have a defense that’s just it’s so uncom to watch I’m sitting there it’s like when you’re in a movie theater by yourself and and someone walks in and they can sit anywhere but they sit right next to you and it’s just super uncomfortable the whole time like you look over it’s just like Jaden McDaniel staring you in the face uh they’re everywhere they’re in Jamal Murray’s Jersey so that the whole time I’m thinking and the reason why I pick the nuggets in this series is like in crunch time they have joic and Murray the two best players who have been doing this for years uh and they’re just eventually they’re going to win out um I I just don’t know if that’s going to happen against this Minnesota defense this seems like a matchup and you know Tim Connelly who used to be who kind of built this nuggets team also built this Timberwolves team to beat the Nuggets uh they seem like they’re so well suited to play against Denver so it’s going to take some heroics from joic and Murray for me for Denver to get back in the series Murray is usually awesome during the postseason he averages seven and a half points more in the postseason than he does in the regular season over his career aside from those two shots against the Lakers he’s been bad this postseason and and part of that is he’s not played well and part of that is exactly what you mentioned about that wolves defense where I mean there have been multiple moments where they have been all over him just like in his jersey uh Nik Alexander Walker and McDaniels picking him up together full court where he’s having a problem just getting the ball over so there’s not a backourt violation I mean like making him work for every inch all game long has got to be not only frustrating but really fatiguing I mean like they are making him work for all of it and has not worked out well for him at all I do want to say just between us we’re in the trust tree now because Ashley and Bill aren’t here I have been extremely bullish on the Wolves all season they were less so I didn’t think they’d be this good though like we we talk about we talk about like you know defense wins championships the old cliche whatever it hasn’t really been true over the last few years I mean like you have to have a really good offense in the NBA to to be successful but this model for the Wolves really works I mean I’m staggered by how like Anthony Edwards obviously has stepped forward and put his hand up as like not just the future of the NBA but like a guy who’s here right now and then the two bigs obviously have figured out how to work together and then you’ve got they’re so deep because you got Nas as a six-man bringing them off the bench and like this whole thing is just it’s it works so well in the postseason that it’s it’s kind of hard to believe and it’s been fun they’re extremely fun to watch and if you ask Chris Finch what the key to all this is he’s going to tell you Mike connley a guy you haven’t even mentioned yet so that’s tell how deep they are he just kind of brings everything together this was a team that was kind of you know a little fractured a little ego- is and when they traded for Mike connley he immediately solved all that stuff a guy who guards and defends uh but to me uh you know I mentioned the clutch thing with Denver I figure okay in the clutch they’re going to be better that was one of Minnesota’s problems during the regular seasons their clutch offense is really bad all of a sudden anony Edwards decides he’s might gonna be Michael Jordan and just never missed shots in the clutch so now you add that component to a team that was already the best defense in League already has shooting already has spacing length size uh I agree with you I didn’t buy it during the regular season I wasn’t saying they were gonna be bad but you know I I picked Phoenix I thought all right this isn’t Gonna Last in the postseason I am very wrong and this team is much better uh than I think anyone probably expected yeah I mean I was all over them all season but I didn’t think that they would be up 20 after winning two games in Denver on the defending champs floor that’s kind of wild but uh I am very much looking forward to tonight’s game as well and we’ll see if the Nuggets can get back into it uh before we go because we’re going to wrap up the show now what do you got cooking what what can people uh read on CBS sports.com from you yeah just uh moving on with the playoff coverage we’re doing live blogs every night so if you want to check out you know our in kind of up to the minute analysis on every single game we’ll be in there and then as I mentioned uh doing some draft stuff we got the lottery coming up on Sunday so once that happens I’ll be having some mock drafts out there for anybody who’s interested in that sort of thing I will uh we’ll have to have you back on uh around the draft time because I know nothing about the draft I don’t have the RAM for it I can only watch there’s too much professional basketball I cannot be tasked with following International and college basketball so you’ll have to be our correspondent for that we’ll have you back on that and also during the regular season I gotta give you credit your delightfully unhinged power rankings are just a joy man those things are so great we’re gonna have to have you on to talk about thoseo it’s not a bit all right the those are serious rankings that need to be taken seriously I took them seriously they’re so fun one week you had the bucks at 14 and then the next week you had them at one and I was like this guy’s amazing uh Colin W hinger this was so so fun thank you for joining us first rankings the magic of weekly rankings we’re definitely gonna have you back that’s it for us for right now though we’re gonna be back on Monday with Ashley and Bill but for now for Colin I’m John thank you so much for tuning in everybody have a great weekends
