– CHARLIE VASCELLARO ON GIANTS HISTORY IN ARIZONA – NEW YORK GIANTS PRESERVATION SOCIETY-3/21/2024

BASEBALL WRITER AND CACTUS LEAGUE HISTORIAN CHARLIE VASCELLARO DISCUSSES THE HISTORY OF THE GIANTS IN ARIZONA, HIS GIANTS ROAD SCHOLAR PROGRAM, AND SCOTTSDALE STADIUM.

Gary Welcome to our uh New York Giants preservation meeting for tonight Thursday March 21st 2024 we have the wonderful baseball writer and historian Charlie vasilo who is going to be speaking about uh the Giants being in Arizona for spring training both as the New York Giants and the San Francisco

Giants you will also be talking about a Giants Road scholar program that many of you might be interested to visit Arizona next year and also about uh Scottdale Stadium uh the history of that in in a museum so we’re going to get to Charlie

In a few minutes I just want to go over a couple of other things next week will be a Wednesday meeting and the reason we’re having it on Wednesdays because next Thursday is opening day um I didn’t want to bother you guys because we’re all going to be watching the Giant game

Uh Roger is very much an authority on the Giants minor league system a lot of you will have questions about guys who you all thought would be on the team and they’re going to probably be winding up in a minor leagues and other guys who will be available hopefully this year to

Help the Giants out um couple of other things uh if you donated to the Willie May say hey fund should have received a thank thank you note very classy that his Aid Renee sent out to everybody she handw wrote every one of them uh just a

Great move uh I will be doing double duty tonight uh I have a uh I’m the guest speaker in a saber meeting at uh 10 pm Eastern Time 7 PM Pacific time with the Lefty oou and Dusty Baker chapters they asked me to speak about my book uh if anybody’s anybody’s

Interested in that they could email me and I’ll send out the link to you also on Saturday the Casey singles saber group is having their live um meeting and they asked me to come as well to sell the book so if you’re interested in that and you’re in New York uh you could

Email me I sent out the uh script not the script the uh the link to that from Ernestine Miller who’s big and saber and Dave Litman is also very big in that group so we hope to see some of you there if you can make it Gary my phone

My phone’s not working my my camera is not working but I’m here okay all right Frank thank you so much for that uh in the meantime it is uh my privilege to welcome Charlie velero to the New York chines preservation society meeting Charlie like I said has done everything

Uh in ining the Giants especially in Arizona so let’s all welcome Charlie Vaso Charlie the floor is yours peace everybody when you need let me know okay yeah let’s go ahead I’m gonna I’m gonna go ahead open a slideshow that’s one always do that let’s go to secur security there it

Is Charlie all yours okay can you see the picture on the screen right now not yet usually a second or soen NOP still got nothing got nothing okay let me see where is there something I’m oh here am I there we go okay got

It I think this is it there you see now okay see hor ston I was going to say I think everybody knows who that is right okay so when you tell this story about the Giants uh coming to spring training in Arizona you got to start

With horis stonum so way back in uh 1947 the Giants became one of two teams to uh permanently move their spring training operations to Arizona and one being the Giants and the other being the Cleveland Indians at the time bvec so uh stonum as you guys know I

Know I’m talking to a New York Giant Society so I’m assuming you guys know a little a little bit about stonum uh stonum had lots of Connections in Hollywood lots of friends on the other side of the country spent a lot of time he had Westward leanings Way before 1958

Way before the Giants moved to uh San Francisco stonum was already thinking about the west and uh he he loved Arizona he was he was wooed to Arizona by a group of Realtors and businessmen in Arizona who were trying to create a spring training circuit and uh one of

These guys let me see if I can get to the next screen here next picture let me see how do I go back and thought I clicked on the button to give us the next slide let’s see what’s going on okay all right are you seeing screen oh it says it says my

Screen sharing is paused let’s see okay there we can you see that picture yes okay so I don’t know who knows about the Buckhorn bass are you familiar with the Buckhorn bass so this is out in Mesa Arizona East Mesa the Buckhorn bass this was a gas station originally until the couple who

Uh owned the place had what I like to call their Jed clampet moment they hit a well they hit a natural hot spring and uh when they they turned the the place into a spa rather than a gas station and when they were trying to figure out how

To bring stonum to Arizona for spring training somebody thought let’s bring him out to bakor B I bet he’ll like this place so there was a guy named Dwight Patterson who was a realtor in Mesa that kind of led the the group to the Buckhorn bass stonum took an immediate

Liking to the place and uh it was one of the main reasons why he decided to move the Giants to spring training in Arizona you can see here Welcome to the San Francisco Giants this is post 1958 but he had them out there even earlier than that uh this Photograph shows what it

Would looked like this was when the highway system was taking hold Across America and roadside stops like this were kind of common more becoming more commonplace people would stop at the Buckhorn bass who were just weary Road Travelers traveling in either direction but uh stonem decided to set up camp

Here with the team and they had barracks and they lived there and they practice there and then they would uh go to Phoenix Municipal Stadium for the games okay let’s see how do I get to the some reason it’s not letting me move through the slides there we go okay

Here’s Dwight Patterson you can see him yeah so Dwight Patterson was the they call him the father of the Cactus League uh he was there’s a field in hokm park where the uh where the A’s play now and the Cubs played before the field is named after Dwight Patterson Dwight

Patterson was the guy who brought stonum to the Buckhorn bass uh he’s he’s given credit for kind of getting the whole process moving and and getting uh spring training coming to Arizona they love him in Mesa this is this is do strap it’s hanging in the men’s room at the in the

Lounge at hoo Park have this thing in front of a urinal where you couldn’t escape from it you kind of go into the men’s room and you got in and the first thing you see is Dwight Patterson’s jockstrap he’s a like I said he has iconic status in

Mesa there’s Gaylord Perry sitting in the tub uh Perry would have been one of the players that they invited they used to invite the players to spring training back then it wasn’t a whole roster that got to go to the Buckhorn bass it was was select few Perry became very good

Friends with the couple who own the home there that own the bass and he would come back and visit with them all the time but there you see in tub so over in Cleveland Bill VEC one of the players that was on Cleveland in Indians in 1947 was Larry

Dolby the first black player the American League and uh there’s some speculation as to whether or not Bill VEC brought the Cleveland Club Tucson because of Larry Doby uh also had a vested interest in the area he owned a cattle ranch and the the idea of Whose idea it was first to come

To Arizona Stone him or ve it’s kind of one of those chicken the egg kind of things so but Dolby was there he he was not there in the spring of 47 he he broke into the big leagues in July of 47 shortly after Robinson but his first

Spring with the team would have been 1948 at hbit field in and there’s VEC um ve had uh when ve brought his team to Tucson there’s a story he told about having him in Florida before and it might have been one of the other clubs I don’t even

Think it was um the Indians at the time but he had a team in Florida that he was uh he was sitting in the uh bleacher section with the black fans and uh he some Ops asked him to move out of that section and they didn’t know who he was

But uh he was quoted the next day in paper saying that he would uh you know pull his team out of Florida and uh so there’s this is a picture of Larry Dolby uh out on the Outfield wall the Goodyear Ballpark here in Arizona the all of the Cleveland uh Hall of Famers

Are honored out on The alfield Concourse Bob Feller would have been among the early Cleveland players to to be on the uh to have spring training in Arizona and those early days big star of the team here’s a picture from the first game ever played between the Giants and

And Cleveland in 1947 at Old Phoenix Municipal Stadium you can see spring training was a rousing success here in town uh it’s a obviously a capacity crowd and some of the fans are even sitting on the field I don’t know how they got away with that back then but it

Looks like they sold more tickets than they had to the game a couple of years later in 1951 the Yankees and Giants traded spring training sites just for the 51 season you might see Dell web over here in the trench coat at the end of the uh

Field and the the the slide is in Reverse uh I sorry about that but you can see it says New York across the jerseys backwards so somehow this slides in Reverse this looks like Phil rosuto to me down here and I believe Yogi might be right there in the middle 51 was a

Pretty pivotal year for the Yankees it was Mickey man’s rookie season and Joe demaggio’s last season and dagio announced his retirement during the Spring here in Arizona couple of the early Giants in the in the in the 50s that were having spring training here in Arizona the

Great Monty Irvin and William ma to crossover players from the Negro Leagues uh I love this picture Monty Irvin uh literally and figuratively took Willie Mays under his wing and I think this picture kind of shows that he was a strong mentoring presence uh for young Willie when he came

In here’s a picture you can see uh from Monty Irvin’s obit a few years back and uh you can see the alfield wall in this picture that is the alfield wall at Phoenix Municipal Stadium it’s a a spring training photo that they used in the in the obit I love digging up old

Photos and recognizing spring training ballparks in the background here’s a great shot also you can see that Outfield advertising on the wall back there this is Willie May signing an autograph for a lucky kid and uh this picture really shows you how casual spring training was back old days

There’s a photographer walking down the field with a big camera in his hand here and this guy is smoking a cigar in the bleachers you’re not allowed to do that anymore and I don’t know who this guy is sitting on a ET but it sure looks like a

Relaxed day out at Phoenix mun and pretty easy to get Willie Ma’s autograph in 1952 the Chicago Cubs became the third team to hold spring training in Arizona they played at this old ballpark rendevu park in Mesa which was used for industrial teams and Semi-Pro teams and

Different kinds of teams this was the founder Dwight Patterson had a vested interest in this place the players lived in barracks on the grounds of the ballpark I’ve spoken with uh Billy Williams about his time living at in the barracks at rendevu Park sometimes teams would be barnstorming through town the Atlanta

Braves did not hold spring training in Arizona but on their way to La one year for opening day against the Dodgers they took a pit stop at rendevu Park this was a few years later uh the park was used by the A’s and the Cubs at different

Times and this is Dave Duncan behind the plate and this is a game uh early 70s when the A’s were the home team at rendevu Park and Hank Aaron’s doing what Hank Aaron does best hitting a home run and I love the uh the bat rack on the

Outside of the Dugout shows you the kind of rustic nature of the ballpark in 1954 the fledgling Baltimore Orioles the former St Louis Browns uh moved out to Yuma Arizona of all places uh to uh to become the fourth team in the Cactus League this Yuma Municipal Park it

Wasn’t even a ballpark it was originally a horse track and you can see back here that that’s the grand stand for the racetrack and they just kind of carved a diamond in uh this picture looks like it may have been taken after the ballpark was was being utilized they were only

There for two years 1954 and 1955 and I always thought it was a peculiar selection that the Orioles would choose to go to Yuma of all places you know made a little bit more sense for the Padres later but for a team from Baltimore I I wonder sometimes how they landed in

Yuma here’s what it looked like uh later the Padre’s moved in in 1969 and uh they stayed there all the way until 1992 and they really built it up into a full complex you can see the practice fields around here there was a golf course out back you can see the

Yuma water tower uh desert Hill Sports Center in Yuma there wasn’t a whole lot out there in Yuma besides the territory Al prison at this time but uh when the Padre’s came to town it was enough of a draw for Padre’s fans to show up you can

See there’s a pretty good crowd in the parking lot I can’t quite see in the stands how full they were that day but it looks like they got a a nice crowd for the Postcard shot here here’s a great moment for the Giants in in 1955 coming back to Phoenix

As the world champs as you all know only one team gets to return to spring training as the reigning Champions and it’s a great feeling when you get to hang a banner up that says something about it and uh you get to remind everybody all through the month of

Spring training that you are the champions you might remember the episode of The Honeymooners in 1954 Jackie Gleason and uh and art Connie Ralph and Ed had tickets for a World Series game but they got locked up in their in Alice’s mother’s apartment on the third

Floor of some cold water flat in the city and uh it took them all night to get out they they repelled down the building using bed sheets a cop thought they were breaking into the place as they were coming down and uh they were explaining the story to him how they had

These tickets to the game and they were so happy that they got out of the building they hadn’t listen to the news and they didn’t realize they had tickets for game five of the series and of course the Giants had swept Cleveland the night before the first team to have spring

Training at Scottdale Stadium here at in Arizona was the Baltimore Orioles 1956 here’s a funny picture of Ryan Duran doing a opposed sliding shot I don’t think Ryan Duran spent a whole lot of time running around the bases and sliding but it is spring training and so

Everybody gets to run through the drills my favorite my favorite orial from the old days is back here Gus triandos the great catcher he was probably the biggest star on those early Orioles teams before Brooks Robinson arrived and before the team got really good here’s a cover of the 1957 orial

Spring training program the bird watchers manual and you see it only cost 50 cents for the program Scottdale Stadium the winter nest of the Baltimore Orioles this is what Scottsdale Stadium would have looked like back in the 50s and even into the 60s and 7s as well but

Uh the the area was undeveloped nowhere near as developed as we as we know it now there’s some residential stuff going on but in this background and a few look the other way you’ll see some agriculture I’ll turn the slide here around in a second but um Scottdale was

Nothing like it is now it was really kind of a a little Podunk Town back then with a lot of dirt roads and not a whole lot of Commerce and you can see the parking was uh pretty easy You’ pull right up to the ballpark uh these days

Parking sure is at a premium in Scottsdale and nobody gets to park that close to the stadium you can see here again uh a completely un velop Scottdale on three sides here this is um Osborne Road which is a big thoroughfare right now and uh it’s Osborne here in drink water it’s a

Pretty big Corner in the city um but you can see once again everybody got a nice place to park and it’s a pretty full crowd this day um it looks like the game is actually in Pro in progress here it looks like there’s some Runners on base and everybody’s in the Outfield funny

Thing about this picture it looks like everybody drove the same model car back then I don’t know how you could find your car in the parking lot when everybody’s car looks exactly the same here’s the the schedule for the Orioles back then there was only four

Teams in the league so they get the Cubs on the tent they get the Indians on the 11th they get the Giants on the 14th then on the 19th they get the Indians then on the 21st they get the Giants the 22nd they get the Cubs and they close

Out at home with the Cubs and the Indians and the Giants those in between days they were playing at The Other Guys Parks this old cowboy is still standing on the same Corner in Scottdale there he is uh they don’t put the schedule in there anymore but uh he’s in front of

The Gilbert Ortega uh that’s kind of a touristy gift shop and and uh Southwestern Art Gallery he’s still there after the Orioles left town they were only in Scottsdale for a couple of years the the Red Sox showed up another East Coast team coming all the way to

Arizona for spring training and you can see the Splendid Splinter over here Ted Williams and you can see uh the manager was pinky Higgins and I believe that’s Jackie Jensen over on the side the cops are mounted on their horses and it’s all dirt and they got a chain link fence to

Get into the ballpark when I was a kid in the late 70s and early 80s it still looked like this when I would go to games at Scottdale stadium before the renovation and sometimes the gate would just be open after the third inning and you could walk right in and it was a

Dirt floor like it is in this picture there they are again uh you recognize Johnny pesky over here and again pinky Higgins and uh and Ted Williams as you might know Ted Williams oh here’s here’s Ted Williams and I’m not sure if you recognize the guy in

This picture some of you do it’s Tai Cobb so Tai Cobb spent his Springs he had some kind of advisory job I think with the Red Sox at some point uh late in his life Williams and cob uh you know they they were two pretty cantankerous s

Sobs and you know uh this this sometimes they would get into some heated exchanges here they are watching batting practice at Scottdale stadium and uh they had a famous argument one spring where they were each trying to pick their top nine players and a single player at every position in major league

History and they argued about it the argument went back to one of the hotel rooms it escalated over a bottle of whiskey and at one point ta Cobb told Williams to leave his room and get out and never come back and he never wanted to talk to him again and he never did

Because he died shortly thereafter that was supposedly their last conversation here’s a picture where they’re pretending to like each other you can see them smiling it’s a pose shot maybe they liked each other who knows they I’m sure they respected each other but that is a a classic photograph taken at Scottdale

Stadium Ted Williams is still here in Scottdale you might know this um he is being held in a liquid nitrogen tank uh at the Alor facility they’re waiting to bring him back to life so he can come back and and play in Another spring training and maybe add to those 521 home

Runs someday I visited the Alcor facility and interviewed them for a story I was writing these are the tanks Alor offers a couple of different options one is U head and body body together or you could just save the head um the the head’s the most important

Part they can make a new body for you later and you’ll still have your brain so you remember who you are I always have an idea uh that someday I’d like to see him put Ted Williams head on Barry Bond’s body and see how many more home runs that player could

Hit here is ganore Park in Apache Junction this is the Houston Colt 45s the fledgling Colt 45s of 19 1962 um another slap together wooden Ballpark and you can see you might be able to recognize who’s in that picture it’s Manny Moda sitting on top of the

Ladder here’s those crazy Old Co 45s uniforms they had with the Smoking Gun and the 45s hat they uh had to give up the they never had the nameing rights to the co 45s that belonged to the gun company and they lost the naming rights

To the team and uh with the Space Age coming in and the Space Program in Houston they then became the Astros but this is back when they were the 45s this team here the 1962 45s was one of the youngest teams to ever take the field the col 45s took a completely different

Track than the Mets did in 62 whereas the Mets were going after guys like Roger Craig and Don Zimmer and Gil hoders old Dodgers that the fans would recognize the Cole 45s were scooping up pretty good young players like Russ Ry stab and Jimmy win and Joe Morgan and my

Favorite player Jerry Grody the catcher there they are out on the field at Apache Junction this is the Superstition Mountain range off in the background and there’s Harry craft again giving a a little H pep talk or lecture to the guys out on the field my favorite

Jerry Grody he was uh just just finding his way back then he was a young uh catcher a good catcher not a great hitter but uh I still think in my opinion he’s one of the best defensive catchers to ever play the game and he’s my favorite Mets catcher of all

Time if you went out to a game in Apache Junction you might have seen young Jimmy win and Willie Mays facing off against each other some Rising Stars Jimmy win was a rising star Willie Mays was already an established star they lived in these this is a hotel

Called the Superstition hotel and it’s up against the Superstition Mountain range and the players actually lived there during the Spring it it became a it stayed at a hotel for a while later it became a kind of a flea market and uh it’s still out there they they’ve

Converted in into shopping booths but this is what it would have looked like back then I interviewed Jimmy wi and I asked him what did you do out there in Apache Junction when you had a day off or something and he said we used to out there and look for the Lost Dutchman’s

Gold Mine here’s what it looks like today and I say today I took this picture in 1997 when I was kind of working on this presentation and and this story for the first time I was creating a story called The Lost ballparks of the Cactus League for the Diamondbacks magazine and it was

About the ballparks that didn’t exist anymore the precursors to the ones that we were had then and the idea that we were becoming a Major League City so I I was out there kind of um looking for the sites looking for the the places ballparks used to be this is where on

These grounds is where Apache Junction would have been there’s a Moose Lodge I think it’s still out there it was in 1997 but this this corner is where the bar Park was located you can see in this picture a a spelt Rusty stab in the the pre LR orang

Days when he was still a a young man and he’s standing on the field with Harry craft and the mountains are in the background and this horrible infield that barely looks like you could play on it but you know it’s a desert kiche it’s a hard soil I wonder how many bad hops

There were on that field back then you look at this picture and this picture back and forth you kind of get a sense for where the ballpark was this picture is a little closer to the mountain range but it’s almost in the same vicinity the that fence kind of

Runs the same angle as the first Bas line does in this picture so I was I knew I was getting close there was a trailer park there but I knew I was getting close to the site of the ballpark I started to come up with the

Term ballp parkology when I went when I went out there that’s not home plate it’s just a little piece of Styrofoam that looks like home plate and I found it in the tumble weeds I went back to the flea market and I was hoping to find a program or a

Postcard or something about the coal 45s but all I could find was this Colt 45 Malt Liquor tray here we are back in Scottsdale and you might recognize Ernie Banks and this is uh the Cubs became the third team to have spring training in Scottsdale after

The Red Sox left first we had the Orioles then we had the C then we had the Red Sox then we had the Cubs here’s Ernie Banks be Ernie Banks signing balls for fans this guy in this picture saw this Photograph published in a magazine

Article I wrote once and uh he he never knew he was in that picture he remembered getting Ernie Banks audit and when he saw the photograph he tracked me down he said you think I could get a copy of this picture and I was able to make a print for and then he

Said you think we could get Ernie to sign it and we Dusty Baker was managing the Cubs at the time and we sent a letter to Dusty with the picture in the envelope and said could you get Ernie Banks to sign this force and they all

Did two really nice guys Dusty Baker and Ernie Banks made it happen and he ended up getting this Photograph handed back to him after all those years autographed here’s another kid who met Ernie Banks once but his dad was so excited he cut his head off in the

Picture this this kid it’s the best day of this little kid’s life and his dad’s getting a shot at Ernie Banks but we’re just gonna have to believe him I think it looks like Ernie bank’s hands there I believe him here’s hoo Camp Park so hoo cam Park

Is where the uh Cubs played in the 70s and then later the A’s and it’s gone through a couple of different incarnations it’s been relocated to across the street but when I was a little teenager here in Arizona my family moved from New York that was the

First spring training ballp Park I had ever laid eyes on and I was immediately fascinated and taken by it I didn’t realize being a kid from New York that there was even spring training in Arizona I just assumed it was all in Florida and so I saw this ballpark at

The school bus window one day and immediately when the bus stopped my my junior high school was only a few blocks away I got off the bus and went over to hokam Ballpark and the rest is hookie playing history I’ve been doing it for the rest of my life ever

Since and there’s the there’s our friend Dusty Baker that’s me a little skinny little New York teenager with an LA Dodgers hat and my high school buddy Bob and it’s a blurry picture but it might as well have looked just like that to us that day because we were pretty excited

Look at the hand operated scoreboard uh the game is still in progress which is kind of funny there’s a chain link fence out here and Dusty Baker was running his wind Sprints out in the Outfield back and forth back and forth and we were yelling at him and he finally said what

Do you what do you kids want we said we just want a picture and we jumped over the fence which was about belt high and we’re standing in the left field corner posing for a picture with Dusty while the game was still in progress I it just

Goes to show you how much that has changed in the world of spring training games and how close you can get to players now you can never dream of having a moment like this again I just saw Dusty Baker eating breakfast two days ago at a restaurant in

Scottdale here me and Bob recreated the moment you can see this first picture was taken in 1979 and we went back to another game a couple of years ago and took took another picture with without Dusty the great Ron Luciano there’s a book coming out about him by my friend

Jim leak but uh as a kid you don’t really become a fan of too many umpires but but Luciano was one that he was so entertaining and fun that you just gravitated to him almost like a player and this was also at hoo Camp Park and he’s hanging around out out after the

Game The Players would walk out these Clubhouse doors right into the fans back then too and and the umpires and I recognized Luciano and he’s actually autographing a ball for me in that picture if you can see the pen in his hand and uh again I’m

About 15 14 or 15 years old back then here’s Willie Hernandez the great relief pitcher the 1985 MVP and young winner for the American League Detroit Tigers the World Champ Tigers but this picture would have been about 1979 or 80 when he was still on the Cubs we get

Pictures uped at the 1 hour photom mat the the day after we went to the game and we’d stand in front of the photo mat and wait for the pictures to be developed so we could bring him back to the game and have him signed right afterwards this is my little brother and

A couple of my friends and he was before you saw us on the field with Dusty now you see Willie Hernandez in the stands with us this is the the bullpen right here but he had already come out of the game and went and got cleaned up and

Decided to sit with the fans instead of the players you just never see anything like that anymore here’s a camel back Mountain off in the distance we’re back at Scottsdale Stadium again uh by this time I believe it had become the home of the Oakland A’s after the Cubs so it went Orioles

Red Sox Cubs A’s eventually it’ll be the Giants but in the 70s and early 80s it was the A’s I used to see Billy Martin out there and uh some of those guys here’s here’s a here’s a picture now you can see Scottsdale stadium and there’s Roger

Craig the hum baby and commissioner Fay Vincent this was 1992 and there was some concern I’m sorry 1991 there was some concern at the time that teams were going to leave the Cactus League there was a commission formed to try and save spring training baseball in Arizona the governor Rose

Mofford was instrumental in in bringing uh Revenue devices creating taxes on hotel rooms and rental cars but they had a whole commission and faay vinon was in town really to discuss the future of the Cactus League and how it was gonna pan out and I was in the seats just behind

Them I took this picture with my own camera I was a student at ASU I was writing a paper about that exact Topic at the time and I uh went over and talked to faay Vincent and I asked him can I get some quotes for you for my

Story I’m working on at ASU and he was perfectly cool about it uh told me he’d meet me outside the ballpark afterwards there were tunnels where you could walk out and he told me look for me he used a cane to get around and he also used a

Golf cart to get around but I was waiting for him out there and he granted me an impromptu interview in front of all the fans which was a thrilling experience for kid still through journalism School stay as long as and uh we’ve hung around after the game was over that’s my

Friend Carl in the front seat my friend Billy in the back and this car was owned by somebody we do not know it’s just a convertible but it was always out there the ballpark Express and I said get in there we’ll take a picture and this is

Another one of pictures that I ended up publishing in stories and the guy who owned the car recognized it and one day I met him he ended up being a bartender from left o DS in San Francisco who would make these trips every year that

Was his car and this was the last day they they literally came and knocked this ballpark down with a wrecking ball the next day we were wandering all around the ballpark looking for souen ear and I was standing up on top of a bleacher section and I saw a baseball

Lodged in this tree it’s right there I don’t know if you can see it but it’s right in there and I climbed up on top of the bleachers and over the Bob wire and rest resued this ball that had been hit out of batting cage into this tree

However many years ago and then just was growing and being lifted to the heavens until I rescued it from its place I’m standing on top of Portage and wearing 1990s style pants good thing I didn’t rip the then we then we started ripping the whole place apart we got our souvenirs

Our pieces of Scottdale Stadium to take with us those are actual pieces of the ballpark it’s funny these days when the game ends they just Usher you out as quickly as possible back then all the employees were gone and they just let us hang around I even grabbed one of these

Chairs as a souvenir the folded and that very familiar um aqua blue or teal color whatever you want to call it whenever I see a baseball card uh with those in the background I can always tell the picture was taken of Scott steel stadium that

Was back in the days when you can carry your own beer into the ballpark too there’s a there’s a a cooler with all sorts of cans of beer and Ice there like we used to do in the good old days here’s the Press Box pretty pretty rustic Press Box at scussel Stadium one

Row no no computer hookups you know guys would file their story on the phone or however you did it back then it was pretty funny we were wandering around in the Press Box again another day after the game and everybody was gone and I picked up the phone and it was live still

On and and back then you used to get an itemized phone bill and longdistance phone calls were expensive so we figured we should make a good one and we called my buddy Carl’s mom in Buffalo and talked to her for a little while I always wonder who saw that on the

Bill and said who’s calling Buffalo at four o’clock in the afternoon this is the ballpark in Sun City where the Brewers play um I I would imagine Steve is familiar with this place and maybe some other guys too um the great Roger Angel once writing about

Sun City Stadium said it was uh looked like a hollowed out Moon crater completely surrounded by golf carts and you can see the golf carts in this picture more great parking at the Ballpark of course you might get hit with a foul ball but how nice was that they had a

Very captive audience out there in Sun City the Brewers and they were they were you know beloved by their fans it was a you know what what a treat to have a team right there in Sun City the great Hank karon went to the retirement community of Sun City for his

Retirement the last two years with the Milwaukee bra with the Milwaukee Brewers it was a homecoming of sorts for Aaron who broke in with the Milwaukee Braves and spent the Lion Share of his career Atlanta Braves but came back to Milwaukee to be a DH for the final two seasons of his

Career by this time he was already the Home Run King so he’s just all relaxed and happy not feeling that pressure that he felt during the chase it was it was a know it it’s a shame that Aaron had to go through what he had to go through

When he was breaking Hank Aon he was breaking babe Bruce record but by this time it was all behind him here’s a couple of uh young Brewers on the rise now they’re they’re looking at the new ballpark so when when the Brewers left Sun City they moved to a

Ballpark in Chandler at Compadre Stadium which we all really love that ballpark too it’s not there anymore either and there is a a a residential Community built on that site but back then they were just getting ready to move here and that is Paul Moler and

Young Robin ya who still looks like that and Ben olvy three pretty great Brewers right there kind of checking out their new digs here’s a confusing picture this is out in CAG Grande the ruins of Casa Grande and so Casa Grande was also a a spring training local for the Giants

They didn’t necessarily play official exhibition games there but they did play some inner Squad games there an occasional exhibition game but C Grande was mostly known for this civilization uh it’s about halfway between and usan a little bit closer this would have been a reason why you

Would go to cassa Grande but then horris stonum once again created the Francisco Grande training complex and this was a magnificent place you have this big main field over here you got four practice fields and a clover over here uh um there was Barracks for the players to

Live in and a luxury uh Resort Hotel on the grounds and again look at all the cars in the parking lot something big was going on this day there’s a game on the field and the crowd looks pretty full I don’t know if this was a fla

Exhibition game or just a Giants versus Giants game but obviously a lot of people came out to see it here’s a postcard this used to be the bill of the Hat on top of the building there was a Giant’s cap up here and uh that was the

Bill of the cap you can see the swimming pool is shaped like a baseball bat and uh now it’s a Resort golf club but it’s also a training headquarters for soccer teams for World soccer teams they go out to Cle Grande and use those grounds is no real remnants anymore of of the

Baseball fields that were there I did go out there and I’m gonna move on to some pictures to show you what it looked like 1997 here it is the Francisco Grande Resort two celebrities owned suets up on top John Wayne he owned about most of

This up here and then on the other side Wason I don’t know what Pat Boon’s interest was C Grande John Wayne was a cattle rancher and he owned one of the biggest cattle ranches in this side of the country the rooster curn cattle ranch and it’s still there and you can

Still smell it sometimes when you when the wind just right even even standing there at C Grand at Francisco Grande and these palm trees remind me of it’s a mad mad mad mad world because you will was under the big make Zoom Meeting here’s the swimming pool you can see from the hotel this is in the backyard of the hotel so you got the the baseball bat pool and the jacuzzi is the ball and there’s the fields off in the background Candlestick Drive I think that’s still the name of the street out

There and here I’m taking a picture from the top of the hotel back at the Clover Leaf of practice field there’s the the equipment manager’s room and it was a Crows Nest it was an observation deck coaches and the SCS and anybody interested in seeing what was going on

On these four Fields would gather up there and even conduct the proceedings from up there orchestrate what was going on on the fields another the pool here’s you can out one of the D at this point 198 197 when I picture no one had used these

Fields since 84 Angels used did it for a short while after the Giants but at this point it had just been deserted here is the the the wall the the of the main field that Big Field that I showed the picture of those are remnants of the alfield wall I actually found a

Dimension sign out there I think it said 365 on it and I rescued di menion sign from there here you can see some of what it would have been then the tower we were looking for here’s some guys wearing seals uniforms some minor Ed to the major league

Camp and here it is again now I’m approaching this Tower in 1997 I’m gonna walk on in and uh I I there was a door here and when I got to the door I tried to open door knob turned but the door kind of stuck shut and my friend who was

With me told me you got to bang your shoulder in you got to pop that door open po the door open and all these rats came running out then also when when I when I when I could finally see what was inside I had hit P home plate from cassa Grande that’s

Like finding the holy in in baseball archaeology look at the Francisco sign that was in there too so these are some fantastic items that I was able to rescue from this storage shed they’ve been sitting in there just Aging for years I got the plate and the sign I got

The pictur Rubber and the home plate when I opened the door there were two rubbers and two home plates in there and uh I grabbed one of each and I one of each behind because I thought well if anybody else makes this pilgrimage we’ll let there be something for them to find

I came back one year later and they were still there so I grabbed those ones too there it is the pitching rubber that who knows Juan marichelle probably had his feet on that that rubber as well Museum of course so a lot of these uh items these old ballpark relics that

I gathered up all we’ve into Museum this was in temp 50us Le here’s holes Ste Stadium a newspaper that day Will Clark signning autographs and they were tell on us it’s the end for Scottdale stadium and the not never gonna get together anymore and I thought to myself I saw that story

Well I gotta poke some no ears and uh funny thing I things out after the last game nobody ever looked through the whole game it was it late but I was able to a couple of knots those my my favorite CLS earthquake relief game you might recall the

Earthquake World Series of 1989 well they had a a fundraiser game back on March 1 which would have been one of the first games not the year at the price8 not not bad you do know already Howes are at Scottdale Stadium this was for the last game at Old Scottdale

Stadium which was April 3rd 1991 but it really wasn’t for that game just had an old ticket stub and I Whited out whatever was written on it before and uh put uh put in a typewriter and and just typed the game over it there was no barcodes or anything back then I

Just showed it to the Usher he said looks good enough to me last game at Old Scot Stadium here’s a chair coming out of Yuma for the chair collect here are all the chairs of the Cactus League that I gathered up over the years to to put Museum exhibits for historical

Preservation here’s one of our exhibits at the scotdale library a couple of years ago and this is a road scholar group through through the exhibit this is where all this stuff and I I think this is the last slide in this part of the show can I go back to um we

Can look at each other yes okay I think I see everybody slideshow beautiful well thank you very much does anybody want to ask questions about this before I start something else Charlie wanna you know I gotta tell you the connection is is bad I don’t know what’s going on connection’s bad yeah

We’re hearing unless it’s me losing a lot of your sentences um I’m not I’m not oh no no it’s breaking up Gary you’re right it is breaking up oh I I think you should maybe try not to move so I don’t know sometimes you go on for a few minutes and it’s totally

Fine yeah he breaks up uh on my end too why don’t you um why don’t we save the questions for the end why don’t you talk about the uh the road scholar okay I think that’ be a hotel room in Tucson um I don’t know if I should move before

Different part of the room and see if it works better I don’t know how let me do that the early part of the presentation was perfect yeah the latter part that it started to break started let’s see if this is better here I’m moving closer to

Where the uh router would be I hear it perfectly yeah that sounds good now I’m in a better spot I think now yeah that’s good okay much much better that’s better yes it is I’m moving closer to the office I’m in a like a little Inn and

The office is right here okay here I’ll I’ll show you some stuff from the road scholar program okay let me uh give you back the screen okay all yours all me now okay it’ be popping up here in a second everybody see that no yes so so the road scholar program is

Fantastic oh not yet there’s nothing here you don’t see it yet okay let’s see if I have to hit share screen again let’s see where did they go let’s see all right if I go to this I’m just seeing one person right now let’s see

Okay okay am I still in here okay I see everybody oh there it is I gotta hit the share screen again okay now not yet not yet let’s see what happens if I hit this picture are you seeing something now there you go okay there we go okay oh very

Good okay so this is a this is one of my most recent Road scholar groups we were together for two different weeks out here uh if you’re familiar with the road scholar program it’s a continuing education program for seniors and uh you can take Road scholar trips on any

Subject you like you could go around the world you could go to be a bird watcher you could go look at museums in in Italy you can do whatever you want but uh this is a baseball group and I’ve been running these programs for about 20

Years now and this is this is our meeting room where we get together we have a an orientation session in the beginning and and discuss what we’re going to do and then uh we we We Gather in this room almost every day but we

Also go to a game every day we take all our meals together it’s an all-inclusive program um let me see if I can make sure that we’re going to the next slide here and uh there can you see the schedule yeah so here is a week of Road scholar

Programs we show up on a Sunday uh Sunday the 3 I did one that started on Sunday the 10th we have our registration we have our dinner um we make presentations I I made the first presentation that day but you will see some other names that you know on here

Like Robert Garrett and Marty lurry people who have presented here in this group before are regulars on my circuit with the road scholar group Bill Staples who is an expert on Japanese and Negro Leagues baseball um you’ll see we go to a game just about every single day

Except for the first one we we do we do four games straight here’s a day game in uh Salt River Fields a day game at Scottdale Stadium a day game at Sloan Park and a night game at Scottsdale Stadium this that was the first week we also

Made it out to Glendale and surprise uh for for games but as you can see it the days are packed the activities are packed it starts early and it ends late and we just keep going all all three days I mean all five days straight um this Marty Lori presentation was

Fantastic I’ll show you a little bit more what it looks like um that would be me making a presentation uh in the beginning uh here’s our group out at Salt River Fields um we always have great seats in the shade pretty much every day um at

Night it doesn’t matter but it’s nice to be in the shade uh some of these days in Arizona uh nine innings in the sun is tough here’s Bill Staples he gave a fantastic talk on uh the Japanese American baseball Legacy what he calls Building Bridges to the Pacific I don’t

Know if you’re familiar with Bill Staples but there’s not too many people in the world who know as much about um Japanese professional baseball and Japanese baseball relations between the US and Japan he’s he’s instrumental in getting a lot of things done um he’s gonna get some of of the artifacts from

The Japanese baseball leagues into coopertown next year as well there’s gonna be some permanent recognition mostly because of him Robert Garrett you I’m sure you’re familiar with Robert uh he’s written books about both Charles and horis stonum and uh one of the nice things about the road scholar program when

These guys come in to talk to the group they always bring a stack of their books which you can buy and get signed by the author right after the presentations um Robert’s been a a veteran me and Robert get together and do this every year we also participate in the nine conference

Together in temp which is where I first heard him talk and asked him if he would join our program here’s our seats at Scottdale Stadium again nice seats in the shade that’s a section 305 um it’s they are bleacher seats at Scottsdale Scottdale is one of the older

Ballparks but we usually get really great seats for these games and it’s I like that Vantage Point uh to watch a game from it Scott Ste Bobby Freeman is the Diamondbacks organist the the ballpark organist one of The Last of a Dying Breed and uh

There he is he sets up in our conference room and he’s a consumate Entertainer it’s not just music he’s really kind of does a com a comic show as well while he’s in there uh we visited the Cactus League Hall of Fame that’s housed at the Mesa Historical

Museum uh I used to be very involved in this process of of selecting the Hall of Famers and writing the text for their plaques this class I’m particularly proud of it was the 2017 class and it was Ernie Banks Monty Irving Willie Mays and Larry Doby the pioneering black

Players of the Cactus League the the first black four hall of famers to ever play spring training baseball in Arizona um it was a very dramatic um day that day it was a very emotional day Willie Mays gave a fantastic 13-minute speech he was the only guy alive of the group

When we inducted those four here’s a here’s a picture from Sloan Park uh the Cubs it’s the biggest of all the Cactus League ballparks and they draw between 14 and 15,000 games a day out there um this was after the game was winding down with our road scholar

Group and we’re walking out to the bus but um that’s what it looks like at SLO Park here’s here’s a great one this is uh Marty L’s presentation in the Press Box at Scottdale Stadium I love that he was able to do something like this for

Us you know we took our group from the road scholar from the hotel we stay at the Hilton Garden in which is about three blocks down the road and we just walked over I drove some of them over uh and we jumped up into the Press Box with

Marty lury and he gave his talk from the Press Box which is you know you get to to watch the grounds crew out the windows getting the Feld ready for the game while Marty’s talking um I would think this is among the highlights of our program if you’ve ever heard Marty

You know how entertaining he can be then he passes His World Series rings around and lets people put him on their hands that’s my finger with a with a 2010 World Series ring on it and uh John Shay I don’t know if John Shay has spoken on in this forum before

He probably has yeah so he’s talking about his book 24 the the Willie ma book and we had our meeting outside that day in front of the Scottsdale Historical Society where we have our history of Scottsdale Stadium Museum exhibit set up so again that was like a onetwo punch we

Got to go in and look at the Museum exhibit and then have John Shay come out and talk to us it was the first year for him doing the program and he really loved it and I can’t wait to bring him back every year and again he was able to

Sell some books we did a there’s oh this is kind of a timely shot you know who’s been in the news lately that’s Otani at at a Camelback Ranch in Glendale and we saw a great Giants Dodgers game uh on March 12th and Otani was hitting the ball all over the place

That day he h like he had two two singles to right and left Center and an opposite field home run in that game and that was taken from our seats where we were sitting here talking to John Shay that’s a little out of sequence but there there

We are having a we had a little Q&A um this picture is also taken I want to say at Scottdale Stadium it looks like yeah oh no I’m sorry this is surprise this is the Royals and that is the great Salvador Perez at the plate

What a treat to see him still doing his thing and the more I see Salvador Perez go out on the field the more I think maybe he’s a Hall of Famer him and y Molina I think are the are the catchers of our era and yeah what a

Treat we go out for great meals together this one’s at Grimaldi’s Pizza in Scottsdale we could walk to the hotel from here every night we go somewhere good for dinner and uh there’s a couple of nights we eat at the hotel but this was a fun kind of pizza buffet party that we

Had uh this is a restaurant called Tommy ve in Oldtown Scottdale also uh our usually it’s our farewell dinner before we part and say goodbye uh to each other as a group but it’s a a great way to end the program we got rained out on the Dodgers

And Giants night game this year I was so mad and I think it was Bob Melvin’s fault because uh the umpires they called that game so quickly we had just gotten into the ballpark they got two innings in there was this delug it lasted about 15 minutes by the time they kicked us

All out it had already stopped raining and I couldn’t believe and I asked John Shay I said who called that game and he says well the umpires talked to the managers and I said but who’s got the last say who says we’re going to call he

Told me it was Melvin didn’t want his rookie pitcher Harrison going out there that day and he just decided to bag it but I didn’t think that was very nice with all of us people there here’s some of our friends these are repeat uh clientele in the road

Scholar program that’s Diane and Claudia and Shirley we get together every year and uh I can’t tell tell you how much I look forward for that calendar to roll around again so that we can do this all over again every year and uh here’s a couple of them

Posing for a picture I think this I think this picture just kind of captures the mood of how the program feels for some reason to of my participants and I think that’s the last little piece of that I do have some pictures of our exhibit at Scot on the history of

Scottsdale Stadium just a few if you want to blast through those too sounds good by the way Charlie much better uh sound okay yeah I moved outside in front of the room I show don’t you show why don’t you show those pictures quick and then you’ll have questions

Okay okay okay I’m gonna go to uh okay I’m gonna go to the other ones now which are oh they’re over here hold on one second okay they are in here okay all right are we in screen sharing mode now too no we’re not yet okay let

Me go back and make sure I am okay right there you go now we are right okay so this is an exhibit uh I placed in in the Scottdale Historical Museum with my partner Mike Phillips we have an organization called the Arizona baseball Legacy and experience and we’ve been

Putting things like this in libraries and and museums for about the past decade you can see what’s covered here history of Scottdale Stadium the five teams that have occupied it the Oriol the Red Sox the Cubs the A’s and the Giants and there’s artifacts balls the

Knoles are in there pictures of guys at the local bars the Pink Pony and the coach house and all that so it really covers the whole social history of it as well okay there’s uh there’s uh the Orioles and the Red Sox the first two teams uh

To to move into the ballpark in the 50s kind of a cool shot of the display case there there’s only a few in here there’s a autograph Brooks Robinson Jersey Bill Staples participated in a fantasy camp and was able to get Brooks to sign a bobblehead a ball and a shirt for him

Brooks was there in the old days here’s the Red Sox jersey that’s a replica Jersey but there’s some pictures of the Red Sox drinking at a bar called The Coach House in Scottsdale which because of the baseball players became the first integrated bar in Scottdale here’s the Cubs Ron Sano

There’s some autographed Cub stuff in there I can’t remember I think that’s a Fergie Jenkins ball in a Harry Cary program so we’re just kind of going through the years with the teams bunch of Ricky Henderson memorabilia and here a Ricky Henderson Jersey some autograph Ricky Henderson cards and a hat from the

A’s and then uh giant stuff that goes practically up to the present tense U the three World Series teams are covered pretty well um there’s a Will Clark bat and a ball and card um here’s some more of the giant stuff and the A’s there’s that photograph that you saw in the previous

Slid Steve knows the story of this bobblehead I’ll tell I’ll tell that to other people again someday I was on the phone with Steve when I discovered that Bobble hit I remember here’s uh patch pick a book of matches from Francisco Grande an autograph Kevin Mitchell card here’s the

The preservation Society pin you guys are represented in our exhibit and uh there’s that picture from the Coach House Bar Felix Mantia and Lenny green probably would not have been allowed in that bar if they weren’t ball players but you know you’ll take your progress where you can get it and uh

Baseball did help accelerate the process of integration in cities like Scottsdale back then uh that’s Billy Martin dancing at the pink pony with the owner Charlie Bradley’s wife Gwen and a Mario mariachi band playing in the background so the the the pink pony may have you may have

Heard of the pink pony it’s a pretty famous Scottsdale restaurant that has not been in existence now for quite some time but it used to be the place someday we want to put a baseball Museum in the pink pony Steve has heard me talk about this I’ve talked with other people in

The group about this the building is just sitting there there’s the original owner Charlie bryley sitting at the pink pony with Harry Cary it was that it was that kind of place there’s Bobby bonds and Willie mccuff again in the pink pony everybody used to go there here’s some

Paraphernalia the swizzle stick and the card and the matches and the pen and the stationer and uh more pictures of the that display case oh Eddie Logan you know Eddie Logan right uh the the son of Ed Logan he gave us some fantastic Memoria his his Bat

Boys Jersey from 1957 and his hat that he wore uh I think I don’t know if they’re visible in that picture but I he gave us some fantastic items as well this Ball’s signed by Carl Hubble I got Carl Hubble to sign in here some Cactus

League pins yeah yeah and mccuff is on the same ball and all the 87 Giants and there’s the Eddie Logan stuff this is Eddie Logan’s 1957 bat boy Jersey from the end of The Polar grounds and here’s his hat and a photograph of him wearing that hat and that Jersey so

These are the kind of items we’ve been able to gather and put into these exhibits we’re we’re pretty pleased with what we’ve been able to come up with and for as many things as you see here on display we have just as much in Cold Storage

There’s a buster posie bat a picture of The Old Pink Pony back in the day there was there was these caricature artists that used to hang around in there and draw pictures of the guys who came in Dizzy Dean and Ted Williams there’s a whole stack of

Those you can hear the train going by you’re in Tucson here’s some of our items that we have in relative to the Giants and there’s the actual pink pony that used to hang on the outside of the bar it’s made of metal it’s still there

In our exhibit and uh there we are with John Shay I think that is we’ve gone around the loop already yeah okay done with that Char Charlie I gotta I gotta tell you once we were able to hear you much better so much more enjoyable great job thank you so

Much uh just I love all the pictures and stuff I got a couple of questions for you I’m gonna take screen back and then will take questions um how does you know we have a lot of people who live in Arizona and others who make the track to

Arizona for spring how would they know when this is going to be next year the road scholar and roughly what is the cost so it this year and I hope it’s the same next year it was $2,600 and that gets you five days of everything your your hotel stay your

Meals your ball game tickets all the guest speakers and any of the peripheral activities that we participate in visits to museums it’s all covered it’s a one one shot deal and uh all you got to do is get yourself to Scottdale uh there is a website where you can register on the

Road scholar website I can share that link with you later if you want to pass it to people um people can already register for next week’s programs next year’s programs um we’ve in the past had three weeks although this year was two every since 2020 when things died down

Um it took a little while to rebound and get back up we used to do three Cubs programs and three Giants programs but we’re down to just two GI Giants programs it’s still very well attended about 35 people in each program and you know I as far as I’m concerned it’s the

Two most fun weeks I have all year that’s great all right let’s go to gonna go Bill Harvey Howard and Steve and then uh the other bill Bill clink you’re first thank you very much Gary and boy Charlie you you are the king of hoods spot I

Mean guys that take stuff out of parks I did I I got I got four seats out of Connie ma stadium and I thought I had hotah you got hotah man you you’ve been been there and you at it what you did down at the cassle Grand is you know

That that’s one for the record books man knocking indoors I’ll tell you that’s I’m glad I got there first I’m glad I got there first I I did have a question about uh not just Parks but a city that you overlooked our neighbor to the South the old peblo uh

And two parks there that are no longer used uh maybe you have your comments on them I I have great memories of them the first game I ever jumped a wall and went in for free was at high Corbit Fe in 1970 yeah I don’t know what you know

I didn’t get arrested it’s not on my record I got no record but uh I I did the same thing and landed in the batting cage pardon me say that I’m sorry you have part of the batting cage about Tucson yeah I landed I jumped over the

Wall and I found myself in the batting cage I didn’t know where I was going when I went over I got out quickly but uh setting though where that the park Corbett Field is a wonderful setting I’m talking to you from Tucson right now I’m very close I’m not far

Away at all and um and I did mention it briefly only with regard to Larry Dolby before because I’m I’m heartbroken that they don’t have spring training baseball down here anymore but they wanted to consolidate the teams in one metropolitan area um it made a lot more

Sense for everybody to do what they did I do like the Salt River Fields where the Diamondbacks moved but I I loved going to games at high Corbit and I even love Tucson electric park too and the whole thing about making that road trip to come down but it’s funny it’s it’s

Fading in our memory those days um it’s been a while what what do they do with them now they uh High Corbit field is ufa’s home field the the college yeah yeah so so they still play their games there and Tucson electric park gets used for all different kinds of tournaments but also

Concerts and different events um there’s a Mexican league tournament that happens there at some point um yeah I I’ll I’ll go by and Drive by another other things in Tucson that are on my historic register there’s a town here a neighborhood called um um it’s it’s the old African-American neighborhood uh

Where Larry Doby and Satchel Page used to live I’m gonna go buy that house and take a picture again I’ve been there before it’s called Dunbar the Dunbar neighborhood it’s it’s within five block walk of where I’m sitting right now so there is still some history down here I

Went down to tuac today you know the town of tuac I know tuac well yeah and I found I found an old baseball field down there um that the the restaurant owner this guy herb wisdom uh built a field and it’s got some history I took some

Pictures so yeah I wanted to ask you about Sun City I live in Sun City and the ballpark there uh do you know what the current use of that ballpark is I don’t even know if it’s still there does Steve know the ballpark isn’t there but

It’s it’s a they they they they left it carved out as you described it and there is a senior uh living project in there and I don’t know how many of those people know they’re sitting on home plate or second base or whatever yeah Chandler’s the same way uh Compadre

Stadium I was running around a couple of years ago doing some driving and I felt like I was on someplace familiar and then then I stopped and got out and I asked somebody in the neighborhood I said wait a second did the ballpark used to be right here and he said

Yeah actually that ballpark in Sun City fans used to sit in the on their back walls of their homes that overlooked it and they got they got to watch the game for free it wasn’t the not it was the wall game they would just sit on their

Walls and watch the games for free there the the final games that were played there though were by the you remember the old uh Sun City Suns the uh the the Senior League team yes I do yes the men’s senior baseball league yes yeah they were the last ones there um um I

Did want to show you I don’t know if you remember your first game ever at uh at at Scottdale Stadium that’s mine that’s March of 1970 and uh that’s Ed broer and I at the old stadium uh I I’m dressed casually that day Duke Sims who I had seen at a

Couple of other games done in Tucson saw me and he said Hey kid the ball boy isn’t here today would you like to be the ball boy you know I didn’t ask how much I got paid I just said or anything I yeah I’ll be the ball boy of course you don’t see

It I had shorts on and sandals yeah I look like a hippie kid and I was the ball boy and then afterwards Duke Sim says well kid you did good we’re gonna give you something as a gift they gave me a 1970 Cleveland Indians autograph ball talk about a word

No no no I mean there’s nobody on the team there is nobody I I tried to sell that ball later nobody would buy it but Duke was a nice guy and uh you know he he gave me my opportunity of Lifetime man I been on the field as a ball boy uh

Uh that game broer laughed at me I know that but thank you I appreciate what you’ve done Charlie not only putting things together but your ability to theve is you know that’s that’s that’s really that’s good and not I assume you haven’t been caught we don’t have

There’s no wanted posters out for you Charlie no we’re good thank you Harvey Weinberg you’re up Charlie that was a great presentation uh I want to direct your attention to I think a time maybe when you weren’t even born but it was 1954 when the Giants swept clean Cleveland uh

I grew up in the Bronx where I was getting a lot of Guff from the Yankees fans who had won the World Series the preceding five years in a row and Cleveland broke that string so I was getting a lot of stuff from the Yankee

Fans I was the only Giants fan on the Bronx on the Block I grew up five miles from Yankee Stadium and the giant swept Cleveland and it made my childhood it really did I mean I walked around the those Yankees fans stayed the hell away from me um but

The question that I have is do you know or could you lend some Credence to what I read in subsequent years that the Giants were were a good team very good team but one of the reasons they swept Cleveland was they were familiar with the Cleveland pitching staff because of

Spring training they played Cleveland 20 times or something like that in spring training and um of course in those days there was an inter league play but could you address that did you in your research did you come across that you know when you talk about the 54 Giants I

Also think about the 51 Giants and I don’t know maybe they knew what pitches were coming I don’t know but but um that’s something we we have a different VI in this group about that but what what could you say do you did you in your research did you ever come

Across anything all I can say is I think they were the you know Cleveland came in with the big pitching staff and heavily favored but the Giants were a pretty loaded team too there was the point is that the Giants were familiar with the with the pitching staff because they had

Seen them repeatedly spring yeah well back then they were just playing against each other all the time yeah they were the first two teams out here and it was just those two back and forth back and forth for many years thanks Charlie you’re welcome Charli I meant the comment on your uh a

Comment about Jerry Grody I totally agree with you I loved watching him play defensive catcher he was yeah best catcher I ever saw other than Johnny Bench defensively I I I think defensively I think he was even better than bench I think bench gets you know more recognition because of what he did

With the bat but uh I think Johnny Bench might tell you that Grody was a better catcher than of all of all the Mets I thought he was the most underrated yeah Howard Manis you are up thanks uh Charlie very good presentation uh just to give you uh

Frame of reference I live in Jersey in the New York metropolitan area and I have a 28y old son who’s now a Die Hard Met fan as a matter of fact Gary we’re go an opening day next Thursday but for some reason around the year 2012 2013 he

Was a dback fan and I once asked him why and he said because they’re there so anyway he got good grades in high school so during his spring break which is this year spring break is coming up now uh I took him we flew out together the two of

Us and we went to opening day it was happened to be against the Giants and that was my first uh time seeing the Dbacks I believe I was really impressed by the stadium I’ve been in some really bad indoor stadiums uh the one in Tampa Bay the one

That was in Montreal and bad things but the one in Arizona they opened up I think during the batting practice they had the roof closed and it was an afternoon game but then they opened it up and there was a fly show going on airplanes Jets the star Fango and all

That kind of stuff uh to me what was most significant it was the first game of the Giants second Championship season and that’s what I keep reminding me of they started out in in April I think I don’t remember the exact date and six months later they were the world

Champions again so I was glad to be in the very first game of that Championship season but I’ll tell you one interesting story I got into a nice conversation with ausher there real nice guy does at parttime he was complaining to me about the salary being an usher at uh Chase

Field and he said so so we had to get a second job to supplement his income I think he was an older guy but not quite retired yet so I didn’t press him on it or anything we didn’t discuss anything else the next night it was an off day

Noack game so he went to see the Phoenix Suns play the Lakers and there was that same Usher and he recognized us and I said so this is how you earn a living how you bounce around from Stadium to stadium and he said yeah that’s about it

He does the Dbacks and he does the Phoenix Suns so well for a while they had the same ownership yeah well maybe well this was in the year 2012 so maybe that was at the time that they had the same ownership not by then but in the

Beginning they did so we had a second we had a second conversation with the same Musha the next day we to the back to Chase Field for the next game of the opening Series and there was a guy again and now I felt like we were all friends

Talking about it so um I never been to spring training in Arizona I went to spring training in Florida a couple times living in the East uh but it was interesting seeing Arizona play and when we weren’t at the Ballpark or at the Phoenix Suns we were out looking for

Rattlesnakes and scorpions but we went out to uh what was that famous architect who had a has a place fry right we went to his place out um so we enjoyed being in Phoenix uh it was very very hot and it was only early April yeah I came up with a nice Sunburn

And one thing that did remind me of New York is we took the train there the light rail stopped right outside our hotel and I didn’t even know they had a train in changed things have changed in I’ve been listening to trains the whole time we’ve been sitting here in Tucson

But those are different ones those are the freay trains and the Amtrak I grew up in the Bronx I used to hear the trains in the background and then I moved to Queens with my parents and we had the planes go into lagad or JFK and of course if you know about Shake

Stadium and now course okay nothing but planes so uh good presentation I’m glad I got to Arizona it wasn’t for spring training but I did see the Giants with I don’t remember if they even won that first game I have to get look at the ticket stub but it was nice being out

There to to Phoenix and see Major League WP park again thank you come again the guy who is just returning from Arizona see in the Giants Bill schiffner Bill you’re up Charlie this was a great presentation in the timing on this was perfect uh this was I’m I’m a New Yorker

That’s still a Giants fan even though I was born after the Giants moved but my brother and my wife and my sister-in-law we all met there went to a couple of games and everything I just had a couple of questions about the stadium when was it finally it looks very AT&T Park you

Know a lot of lot of giant stuff you know it’s Oracle now but when did they finally do the last renovation on the park on Scottdale Stadium Scottdale Stadium um they just did one in like uh 2000 I want to say in preparation for the 2020 season which was completely cut

Short right they had spent a whole bunch of money they put a whole new uh clubhouse and and and administrative offices this big building down the it’s like a 10,000 square foot building down the right field line which I don’t even think I’ve ever stepped foot in that yet

I go all around it and do things but I haven’t found an occasion to be in there yet um they also added a another deck to their party deck the lodge where the where where they do the 150 bucks you get all the food and drinks in the game

And so they added another layer to that so they get more people in up there and probably a few other little cosmetic things I mean the big the big difference was when it went from being wood to Bricks when it went from being the second little pig’s house to being the

Third little pig’s house that was 1992 and uh so and that was you know h and you got the red brick and the green awnings and it starts to look like oral Park and some of these other places um you know I think it was it was a hugely

Significant move in the history of the league because that’s when you saw that picture of fa Vincent I showed and they were thinking about leaving and Cleveland had already gone to St Pete and Al Rosen and the Giants were threatening to go somewhere too and the City of Scottsdale came up with 8

Million which is now sounds like nothing these ballparks cost more than a hundred million to build now 130 but back then $8 million got that ballpark built and saved the Giants for the city and so really that was the big one and you know

It’s it’s it’s not as big as a lot of the other ballparks and 1992 now is going back in time it’s it’s like the third oldest ballpark in the league all of a sudden might be the second oldest depend because nobody uses Phoenix Municipal Stadium anymore ASU does the

Oldest is Tempe Diablo Stadium 1969 but every other Park in the league has come along since then so well anyway it’s a beautiful Park we had a great time the Giants one we lost one but we even got to go watch them practice so we got to see Harrison

Warm up got to see Dusty Baker walking around we even saw bust the posie drive up so it was I I saw Dusty Baker at breakfast yesterday it was great but anyway thank you for presentation it was wonderful certainly thanks Bill we got uh Steve and then Mars Steve

Um Charlie this was a great presentation I I remember you did something like that for me and you did a couple of others for those that really don’t know Charlie although Bill clink figured it out he’s got a lot of hozer but he makes it work

I think he paid a dollar for that bobblehead think you told me$ two three three all right it’s worth 15 three okay Harvey this is not for debating I don’t want to go back and forth but one thing that I don’t know how many people realize in 54 the Giants win games one

And game two the Giants flew to Cleveland couple of hours Cleveland took an all night train so they might have been a little bit tired because there was no days off they played the next game which was game three so that might have had a little something to do with

It um you mentioned Bill Staples I don’t know how many years ago I had him as a speaker Gary you might think of him at some point he did El a very I haven’t seen him it’s got to be 15 years he did electr Kenichi zenam zenimura the short

Little Japanese guy with garrian Ruth yeah on each of his ends very knowledgeable guy on Japanese baseball oh he’s fantastic he is um did you ever get to the ston mate I thought you might have something I went to the ranch uh that was his house that Jamie owned for

A while on Camelback Road not too far from the fashion Squam Mall um she has since sold that place correct thankful yeah I’m thankful I got to at least go in there and see it so okay that was a great place to visit um I know we’re talking about the Arizona basically the

Arizona area but the Angels also trained kind of in a remote spot for a couple of years and that was Palm Springs which is very similar to Yuma why Palm Springs but that was a short time the Francisco Grande for the um Bill I’m sorry you

Didn’t do it while you were here during spring training unless you’re still out here that’s a place to take a ride to in KAS R it’s not that far it’s maybe an hour and 15 minutes just that pool in the shape of a band and if you walk

Through the hotel there’s still a lot of giant Mia at least there was yeah they they got lot photographs on the wall they they acknowledge the hotel’s history when you’re there they do yeah now on a sidebar there’s a guy who lives here in Grand his father was the

Interior decorator for that hotel wow and early on when they were decorating the guy that lives here the older brothers close to 90 now they were in the lobby and stonum told the father have your son take that man on a tour well that man was John

Wayne that’s quite and John Wayne’s got that place I guess just I’ve stayed in the John Wayne suite at Francisco Grande before I’ve stayed in the room that’s correct and just one one last thing um Charlie was really very much responsible for the 2017 capus League luncheon I

Attended there was a lot of people there including Monty Irvin’s daughter Chris D roia Jamie ruper it was a wonderful tribute to the African Americans like Charlie said Maize was the only one alive and he made paid a tribute to the other three Dolby Monty Irving and Ernie

Banks the two things I remember about Ma’s presentation and he was beat up that morning because yeah he drove in from Palm Springs he was starving he ate before it started but he talked about his own experiences driving his car home May’s had a play still has it off of cactus

And Frank Lloyd right he’s driving home and he’s stopped by a cop what are you doing on Shay Boulevard says I play for the Giants I’m going home don’t drive down this street anymore so that kind of hit home a little bit but the the second story is

Very humorous he talked about Ernie Banks Ernie Banks came over to Willie Ma’s rookie year and he introduced himself I’m Ernie Banks and may said I know you are I know who you are you’re the guy that says let’s play two how about we play one and we kick your

Ass do you remember that Charlie anyway this was a great presentation the pictures are are Priceless thank you so much you’re welcome thank you all right Mars you’re up oh Charlie that was great uh thank you for joining us I want to show you something that you’ll

Recognize this this jersey oh yeah I did I saw you in I saw you when we were looking at the looking at the screen before I love it I have one of those too yeah so did did they have to give up uh the cold 45s because of the cold gun

Company is that what you said the Gun Company told them you can’t use our name that’s our product wow wow so I have a I have a few question and statements uh why Arizona because it’s dry air instead of the Florida humidity I mean I think that’s part of

The reason I think the in general is just better uh you it’s not going to yeah it’s definitely not going to rain as much um you know the whole baseball map was moving in that direction when you think of all the teams that are now west of the Mississippi it was just

Beginning you know stonum and really you know what it was well you know this already Stone moved to San Francisco because he knew people were going to start driving to the ballpark and they had no place to park at the Polo Grounds so the same thing you had all this

Undeveloped land all this available real estate all these places that it was just a blankets and uh you know there was some baseball history uh there there was uh mining leagues down in Bisby and Tombstone and and and and all around I we one of the projects we’re working on

With our baseball uh Legacy and experience the museum project we’re coming up with something called the Arizona baseball Trail and we’re trying to find places old historic ballparks Fort wuka Fort wuka in Sierra vist Arizona way down south it was an all black regiment there was a all black

Team that had guys who used to play in The Negro Leagues on that team down there so there was baseball that was like post Civil War and even during the Civil War there was baseball being played in different parts remote parts of state for decades and uh you know so

It does the field I went and looked at today I don’t know how old it was I’m gonna say it was maybe a 60 or 70 year old field in this little town of Tubac and uh I you know it makes me wonder if anybody and I don’t know this yet I was

Just scratching the surface today if anybody who ever played on that field went on to play in the in any kind of professional League or what kind of tournaments might have been taking place there Bisby the Warren ballpark in Bisby all sorts of Major Leaguers have played

Down there and it’s got a real storied history that they still tap into so what what is it it was a place what is hoo Camp named who is hoo Camp what’s it named after that’s native people the hokam tribe is n Native Americans and literally translated it

Means those who have gone they disappeared it it may have been a blight or a plague or some disease brought in by the European settlers but that that whole tribe disappeared the hoo camp and so they and they yeah it’s still it’s a word you see attached to a lot of things

Here in Arizona still what whatever happened to Kasa Grande well the Francisco Grande I was talking about it’s it’s still a hotel they still have a golf course there but also the soccer teams the world soccer teams use it as a training facility as bunch of grass now and the and the ruins

Of the Kasa Grande ruins that building I showed you that’s from that’s like 1,400 years old and uh it’s still there you can still tour those grounds you know what else they had in Arizona was the ball courts you know I don’t know if you know about the the Native American ball courts

These were like games they played to the death you know if you won if you won they cut your head off and put it on a trophy so oh I know it was in Mayan ruins I saw that they have that here wow uh Charlie wasn’t part of the problem

With Kasa Grand the fact that it was so remote it was hard to get tourists to come out there that place is way the hay out of castran and a long way from the interstate well you talk about remoteness um I I was gent gentlemen one

At a time please um I I was in Yuma and I I did see the prison and it reminded me of the song 310 there is a lonely train called the 310 The Yuma I couldn’t imagine playing baseball in that heat but anyway two two more things I wanted

To mention that’s uh television and movies uh the honeymoon was you mentioned but do you remember in The Godfather when they got to the when Sunny got to the toll booth the Giant Dodger 51 playoff game where Thompson hit the Homer was going on uh being

Played in that movie on the radio yeah so you know a little bit of thanks thanks again that was very enjoyable all right we’re gonna uh You Met fans the Met sign JD Martinez uh Jim mlly you’re going to wrap it up tonight thanks uh Charlie

Just want to let you know I’m in Western New York and a friend of mine’s been in Scottsdale for the last couple weeks he called me yesterday to tell me about this great exhibit he he uh was really looking at and he sent me pictures and

It was the one that you showed today so I want to know people are enjoying it I sent it to a couple of the guys here and uh the photos I sent yesterday warms my heart good to hear so so that was really nice uh Bill clink if you still got that

1970 Cleveland ball I think you can sell it to Norm because Sam McDowell’s on there and I’m not sure Norm’s got Sam’s autograph he’ll get it Al dark should be on there too okay and and the last thing the nice thing I’ve been at spring training once

And one of the things I really enjoyed about it was the former players who would be out in the in the lobby area basically just sitting down selling autographs but um I I saw Gaylord Perry there and there was like no one around him I sat down with him for 15 minutes

And had a real nice conversation with him it’s saw Daryl Evans there one year uh so it it’s kind of a nice experience get to see the former players there but just wanted to let you know that people enjoy that exhibit thank you Charlie just a great job and uh one

Recommendation is when you get the schedule for next year send it out to me I’ll send it out to everybody because like I said a lot of guys go to Iona for spring training bill of course uh you never know who uh might pick up a person or yeah I look at

The group today and I was thinking you could be a road scholar you could be a road scholar you know I think that we’re like-minded communities and uh you know there’s some overlap in all these Endeavors the museum people the road scholar people everybody we all have

This in common you know and plus plus the guys you spoke about have all zoomed with us so we’re you know very familiar with these guys yeah yeah well guys why don’t we give up Charlie Velo Charlie don’t be a stranger okay hop on find an interesting program we

Will meet each other next Wednesday with Roger munter great uh reports on the Giants farm system until then I will stop the recording anybody wants to talk about Giants for a few minutes we will do that have a great night we’ll see each other next Wednesday good night everybody good night