Over recent months the phrase “improve the product” has become a crutch phrase for players, tour officials, TV executives, and virtually anyone with a stake in the health of professional golf.
We try our best to actually define the phrase and it’s various forms, the biggest hurdles standing the way of progress, and what we view as most important to actually making meaningful improvements for the benefit of golf fans.
Ladies and gentlemen welcome back to the no layup podcast Sol here got a fun one for you today uh we have recorded an episode called improving the product we’re going to detail exactly what that means uh as we get into the discussion want to give a shout out to of course
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Spring golf is not the same without roback onto the Pod Su here got a round table day uh I’m going to go around the horn in introduce everyone and our final panelist here is going to introduce today’s topic TC is here hello Mr TC hey
S how are you I am busy this is podcast number three of the day for me and uh God I’ve you don’t think I’ve learned having kids I used to be way more productive between the hours of 8 and 9:00 a and 5: and 7 p.m. because I don’t
Have those hours anymore and trying to fit everything between 9ine and 5 now is uh it’s it’s stressing me out a little bit I’m not going to lie right now but KV stakeholder that’s exactly right we’re going to get into some of that I think but uh Kevin van valkenberg is
Here he’s going to be playing a little bit of the host and question asking chair here today hello Kevin suly it’s great to see you great to be back I want to say we’re all kind of in the different stages of the kid journey right like you’ve just had a newborn
TC’s got the younger kids I’ve got the older kids uh you know who knows what’s up for our fourth guest at some point down the road but uh DJ Pi is also here excited to join the round table with you as always teach gentlemen good to good
To be gathered around uh thank you for having me on your program Su as as always uh thrilled to thrilled to be here we’re going to talk uh we’re going to talk a little product today little capital P product the product our product each yeah what product whose
Product uh product of my hair who’s buying who’s selling the product what is the product can you trade the product can I invest in the product we’re going to talk about a lot of different things and Kev I think this kind of hit you and
I at the same time a couple couple weeks ago and and where this idea kind of started From at least for me I remember sitting in the Press Center at Pebble Beach when we were out there for the AT&T Pebble Beach pram listening to Colin morawa uh giving his press
Conference and I just remember him kind of hammering on you know the number one priorities we got to improve the product we got to improve the product and then you start listening for that word and you hear other players talk about it you’ve heard Max talk about it you’ve
Heard Rory talk about it you’ve heard Scotty sheffler talk about it you’ve heard spe talk about it you’ve heard J talk about it you’ve certainly heard commissioner Monahan talk about it you’ve heard investors talk about it what I took away from that is like okay there’s a there’s a lot to unpack on
Like what all these people are talking about because I think they might all be talking about different things and I I think what they’re talking about as the product is very different than like what I would see as the product which is even very different than what TC would view
As the product I I would think and so what I I kind of sat down to write was like okay what is the product and how do we improve it how do we literally do what these people are saying and Kev as as you and me and Tron and Su were all
Kind of like kicking it around going through notes we’re like God this is like way more complicated if we were going to try to spell this out it would be you know an hour and a half like the length of an hour and a half podcast so
We might as well just do an hour and a half podcast about it uh which is which is how we got here uh TC any anything to add on that no I might start calling you DJ product please really I mean just the product DJ the product fi JT’s talked
About the product a lot which seems to just mean purse or at least it did back in the day and even maybe that has changed which I I think is interesting in itself right but from what I’ve heard the live product is perfect they don’t need to make any changes they’re Everything is
Awesome uh you’re just not into the product because you’re you know part of the Crooked media possible I just don’t think I have a lot of need for the product like there’s a lot of products that I I see in the store that I’m like yeah that’s probably very functional for
Somebody I just there’s all sorts of products I see in the store that I that don’t apply to me as far as you know conditioner products hair product that sort of thing guys before we drown in buzzwords here you know part of the reason I I wanted to do this is because
I think we’re pretty good about pointing out the flaws and stuff we’ve been you know ah this this TV coverage stinks this format stinks this uh setup stinks whatever kvv many people could say that that’s our product that is our product yes bitching about other people’s
Product but and we don’t it’s not we don’t improve it when we do [ __ ] about part and I think that from some people that that can be a little bit like of a downer a little bit negative so I want to talk today about how could we fix
Things what is the like way to go about making golf better in some ways but TC I want to turn it over to you first because I think you have a pretty good grasp of how convoluted it is to even talk about the product like when we say
This when we look at the idea of PGA Tour Enterprises what the hell do we even mean and what should it be going forward as we try to figure out ways to you know stop bleeding fans and start bringing them in so that this actually is worth watching or that we have a
Professional golf product going forward first of all if you’re listening to this too go to our YouTube and and you can we’re trying to improve our product we’re putting all of our podcast that joke TC was making earlier that was a hair joke you couldn’t see it if you’re not watching
The video podcast TC is referring to the noing up Podcast Channel which is new and separate from our no laying up YouTube channel which a lot of people have been asking for where you can find all of our podcasts now going up on there so yeah but I think we need to
Talk about hey who are the stakeholders the product is different for for for different stakeholders and even within those stakeholders there’s certain you know so you’ve got all right we’ll start with sponsors right the the the sponsorship product is uh different things to different sponsors right you’ve got a variety of sponsors that
You know say John Deere or American Express or uh I’m sure cognizant that that that view this much more as I’m sponsoring a PGA Tour event to uh for corporate Hospitality to bring my best clients and accounts out to get them in person their biggest golf fans
Hey this is this is something that we can you know I’m sure BMW does it with their dealers or um you knowf Cocola yeah yeah yeah like Coca-Cola brings in their biggest you know accounts to to East Lake and so that for a long time
Has been the kind of bread and butter of the tour you know that’s hey we’ve got a proam you know you that I think the icing on the the cake is you get these these ad spots these media buys as well that are included in with this and the
Tours packaged those up and given those to CBS or NBC your Golf Channel and said hey we’ve already done 75% of the hard work for you as well where these these ad buys are already spoken for we are giving you uh you don’t have to go and
Sell a lot of this inventory and so I think right now too it seems like the tour doesn’t even know what their product is from a sponsorship perspective because in order to achieve these you know those those eight 10 12 million sponsorship deals to sponsor a
Tournament make a lot of sense if you’re corporate Hospitality focused when you’re getting up to 20 20 530 million as you know you’re seeing Wells Fargo drop out of that or Farmers or you know and and trying to position this product more as this is a media rights buy this
Is an Impressions product this is a worldwide you know a global uh broadcast and and advertising product it starts to make a lot less sense I think and uh so from a priority especially TC as viewership is like plummeting exactly especially as you lose a bunch of those
Impressions especially if like all of the buzz is negative around this so-called one of these aspects of the product that we’re talking about especially when you don’t even own the five biggest products in golf which are the four majors in the Ryder Cup right and so we’ll talk about it on the back
End here like all right what do they own they own the President’s Cup President’s Cup product kind of stinks right they have you know if we want to talk about that as a product cool how do you improve that then use and and who’s playing in it and what the format is and
All that stuff but I think you know so so starting from the tours perspective hey what’s the tours mandate or what’s been the tours mandate get as many as many tournaments on the schedule as possible as big of fields as possible and create the most amount of um can I can I read
Youon I was gon ask you what is the competitive element of the product or what has it been for a long time because I think that’s where you can help us here I’m I’m looking at this this is from guidestar.org uh this is the mission statement allegedly of the of
The PJ tour which is on the about section of the PJ tour it says by showcasing golf’s greatest players we engage Inspire and positively impact our fans partners and communities worldwide um but the the extended mission statement is the PGA Tour inc’s principal mission is to promote the sport of professional golf through
Sanctioning and administering golf tournaments and promoting the common interest of touring golf professionals that part’s important I think this is accomplished by providing competitive earnings opportunities for past current and future members of the PGA Tour Champions Tour and web.com tour formerly known as the Nationwide tour so this
Might be dated protecting the Integrity of the game and helping grow the reach of the game in the US and around the world yeah I think said in another way it like the goal of the PJ tour is to make money for its members which through
The game of like through the product of competitive Golf and so and then there’s Downstream effects that benefit communities the game of golf all that but that stuff’s secondary to providing playing opportunities anecdotal example here but I think it’s this light bulb going off for me and like if you if you haven’t
Run your own company or kind of come up with mission statements or what your goals actually are your core values if you haven’t gone through that exercise of examining those words and picking them out that’s something we have done on an annual basis and it informs so
Much of how we make decisions and our mission statement is don’t don’t hate on me if I get a little wrong guys but something along the lines of our goal is to inform and entertain Avid golfers worldwide which is we look at every single one of those words like it’s not
Casual golf fans it’s Avid ones it’s not in the US it’s worldwide it’s inform and entertain it can be one of those things if it doesn’t fit into one of those buckets we probably don’t pursue that opportunity right if it’s a straightup corporate deal that our fans are not
Going to be interested in we don’t follow that we don’t make that that decision that way so be both ideally ideally it’s both but like if it does one of them that that kind of is what our goal is and that again it makes decision- making a
Lot easier and I I I I challenge people to view all of golf through this lens of what we just talked about here of how decisions get made through that lens of like Hey we’re trying to make money for our players right and I think that is a
Major major major flaw in the product that Rory has talked about recently we can get into but kind of how what you’re actually setting out to do and what your executives are assigned and mandated to do is going to inform your decision making and has led us to where we are
Today and I think a lot of us are going to agree that it’s time to review those goals and missions to make this a better product going forward that said I think there’s different you know with with even if they if the core mission of the
Organization is to make as much money as possible for players it seems like they’re going through these short-sided circles or you know cycles of hey let’s just Redline the engine Max this out in the short term and we’ll figure out the long term and I think the future players
In that in that mission statement hey for past present and future you know touring professionals I think the future ones are the ones that are going to at some point this bubble is going to burst a little bit and if you don’t have like you said s if you don’t have if
Viewership numbers start going down those corporate sponsorships go down those you know those TV r ings uh plummet the the broadcast right steel gets smaller the purses gets smaller all of that and so I think it’s some of it is hey on what timeline are are you viewing this product as well because
It’s it seems like it’s been a a series of three to five year decisions that have just been Band-Aids Band-Aids Band-Aids and we’ve gotten all these small compromises and it’s and I think the thing is the thing that’s going to benefit players most in the long run is
Going towards you know making it more fan Centric and and making the boat bigger so de you used to work for the product here uh and I kind of want to ask you like how did and when did we lose the plot a little bit like where
Did things just start getting bolted on on top of each other and and if you’re not familiar as like a reader listener as a fan what is the PGA tour now that it wasn’t you know in 1965 uh back when it sort of began yeah
I trying to like to Ste this down as much as I can I don’t know how rambling this is going to be but I think what’s really interesting about where the PJ tour sits now is the balance between like committed long-term Partnerships and needing to be flexible and change
With like massive outside actors I think that’s on one hand that’s like a slow Evolution that you alluded to so like in 1964 the PJ tour becomes this Breakaway of touring professionals and we’re going to set up this kind of entertainment product charity product 501 C6 organization that’s kind of a genius
Model that’s going to work super super super well I would say all the way through I don’t know 2010 honestly like like just really really really solid model that is kind of split between like immense TV rights a core group of fans that love watching golf on Sunday afternoons and an awesome on-site
Experience that feels very right-sized the purses make sense all of those things and also on the tail end of that up until 200 2010 is arbitrary but I think like catching that tiger bubble was kind of almost like the the gravy days of like all right sweet we don’t
Have to change anything the money’s going up like crazy and like we’re just GNA kind of ride this forever and tiger was the product right and that’s where it becomes really easy is like how do you [ __ ] that up like you just show that guy on Sunday afternoons it’s like it it
Doesn’t matter what he’s doing it’s it’s you know a pretty pry pretty easy way to go about things and now what I alluded to at the beginning about like long-term commitments is like the the reason the PJ tour is such a rock solid bet for a
Lot of these companies is not only like the charity reasons not only the TV reasons that you mentioned Tron about like having pre-sold inventory and kind of the whole machine just like running itself but the tour also has like all these long-term deals with title sponsors that like keep that thing as
Just like a it’s almost like a stable like Index Fund right where it’s like you know that you’re going to have this tournament’s locked up for 10 years this tournament’s locked up for eight years this TV deal is locked up for seven years yada y y and the whole live sports
Are are the only anybody watches anymore you know as far as like if you want to get a message out in a in a constrained amount of time like if you have if you’re a car company and you have a a summer Sales Event cool golf’s a perfect
Thing to do that on right right I think what’s important to note before we move on is like the double-edged sword of that is like that stability is what causes like the stability like that’s what is the biggest massive positive for the PJ tour but it’s also what makes it
So freaking hard to change things is like it’s so easy to say they should have blown it up they should have you know as we enter this this kind of transition period And this is not even like mentioning Liv and the piff and all of that even before all of that it was
Slowly kind of chipping away at becoming what you were saying earlier Tron on like heyy this is going from an on-site corporate Hospitality product to a big ass get as many eyeballs as you can product and that there’s some growing pains in there between the stability of
What I’ve mentioned and also needing to like reinvent what you’re doing so on one hand it’s like yes since 1964 it makes a ton of sense to have 200 members we have all these different interested parties they all kind of settle out to this thing that like makes our product
Make a lot of sense and once you start pivoting towards like no no no this is like an entertainment product that’s meant to compete with football and baseball and basketball and hockey and soccer and all these other things it becomes so much harder to change that membership if you have all of these
Locked up stakeholders all I was going to say was when it comes to sponsors is like golf has lived in this sweet spot of this was a shocker to me back when I used to audit companies of like you can have companies where 55 if you find a
$50 million error it’s not big enough to to like call it a misstatement that’s how big these income statements and balance sheets are seriously so like golf has lived in this area like $10 million sounds like a massive amount of money to all of us sitting here but like
For a lot of these companies it is pennies like truly pennies to be able to entertain and and host clients and all this stuff the famous KPMG story of of uh I think it was bearing point maybe back in the day whatever that it took one phone call from Phil Mickelson and
He made uh you know they he they kept some client for like 80 million bucks and whatever they’re paying Phil Mickelson was worth it and like there’s like go there’s value in what these companies get out of sponsoring these tournaments in that price range that easily justifiable doesn’t get heavily
Scrutinized and golf has been able to thrive on that and you know pay its players well and and build this kind of ecosystem on this thing that 10 million ask is different than the $25 million ask and that’s what one of the many things that has changed over recent
Years not to mention all the charitable stuff that that comes out of it too of of hey you get this right off or you get this deduction or whatever I think also just something that’s maybe changing a little bit or maybe maybe it stays the same is is the relationships that
CEOs have with a with players and B with with the tour of Tim finchum and Charles Schwab are friends like that’s why they signed up for what I view as like a dog [ __ ] deal with the with the champions tour or the senior tour or whatever
We’re calling it you know and there’s a you know or web.com they were based here in Jacksonville and that you know the now the corn fairy tour it’s like they signed on for that because it was getting them into kind of these smaller middle markets but it was something that
Bigger that was like you know kind of you know cheaper than say sponsoring the NBA and you’re getting this many eyeballs across the season and all of that so there’s you know you got to wonder a little bit of like all right the tour’s done a pretty poor job of
Involving Silicon Valley like there’s no you know I guess they’ve got the AWS official marketing partner like all they omps right of I mean de you can speak to this from the tour like they have what like they have an official decking partner of you know official PDF is what get
PDF the Adobe one that’s my favorite I always go back to TC on that regard I don’t remember if it was human or one of those companies that like used to sponsor a tournament and I remember asking one time and I this I don’t even
Think it was a PJ tour thing I think this was like a media member or something I was like oh I wonder why Humana is like dropping out of sponsoring this and they’re like oh yeah they’re new they got a new CEO he’s into sailing so now they’re just doing
Sailing stuff I was like they’re doing America stuff now that’s the business is like it’s just whatever these like CEOs want to do and I was like man that’s that’s a weird place to be but also if you get it you get the right momentum you know I mean like every executive
Kind of seems to be into golf right now so like it it there is a lot of money to be spent which is how you kind of end up with I think all these people in these players ears on like your value is so much huger than what you’re getting
Right now but not only for you 20 guys not for you 180 guys and then that’s where you get the friction of like we need to redo this thing and and you’re sitting on 202 billion of nfts that could be just given out at any time yeah that’s that’s another product KBB I
Think the uh the from from that standpoint too it’s also like the PGA Tour needs to be looked at as like a they’re bundling all this sure kind of unlike you know [ __ ] together that’s like all right we’ve got the John Deere classic and the Barracuda championship
And stuff over here that’s that’s you know some tournaments are being run by IMG some are being run by waserman some are being run by you know CA and then you’ve got on the other side you’ve got the championship management events and it’s like all these things are
Very differently run and there’s not a lot of consistency or standards between them and so there’s there’s that too it’s like all right if each individual tournament is its own product you know your brand standards better be pretty freaking good um you know yeah part of
The reason that I wanted to sort of talk about product first in this is because a few years ago when my kids kind of figured out that I was into golf and they were like oh what can we get Dad for Christmas present they showed up and
They gave me a pair of PJ tour socks uh for my uh one of my stocking presents were they live under ones they were not live under par they just said like PJ tour they must have been walking through like an airport whatever and seen a PJ
Superstore and it made me realize like as we’ve been talking about this stuff over the last year so that we’re trying to basically like figure out how to improve a business that makes socks or puts their name on socks has restaurants that has uh courses that they run that I
Can buy equipment and shoes and clothing from and the PJ tour Superstores that I can place Wagers on in the PGA Tour bet uh what else am I forgetting here because I know that there are other elements and tentacles in this it’s it’s very difficult to sort of distill down
When you’re talking about what exactly the is how many different things it encompasses from socks to CH to $20 million of you know in charity and stuff and so I think that’s probably when people are get frustrated why is this taking so long it’s because well there’s
Like a million moving Parts here about how we figure out all this stuff well and I think what’s so interesting about that is and this is a point that I think hit me I don’t know how many years ago but like when like telecast complaints really ramped up is like all that stuff
KBB like makes sense to me truly all the way down to the socks like you can convince me any of those businesses is like a good idea Golf Course properties is another one with the whole TPC Network you can convince me all that is like a great idea if The Telecast is
Banging and if like what’s the actual like I’m not even using this word as a meme now but like the actual product what I think of as the product which is Sunday afternoon back nine what does it look like if that is like Miss like nothing to be improved on there then all
That other stuff makes sense to me but once that starts to crumble and once that starts to become like dude this is not I [ __ ] love golf I can’t tell you guys how much I love golf I like there’s some weeks I hate watching it I always like watching Sunday afternoon down the
Stretch but like you can’t convince me to watch Thursday Friday Saturday many weeks and it’s like man that seems like a an issue and that’s where I think my brain starts like un fooling is just like dude if you lost me on like being such a hardcore fan of that type of like
Again product stuff it’s like why does any of this other [ __ ] make sense because that just makes it even harder to like turn the aircraft carrier around and and so now is probably the point where we say like all of that’s going on in call it 201 17
2018 and we’re getting on the blower every week to complain about the commercial load and you know this who who the hell is Chris Stroud and all of these like complaints no offense to you s I think uh now out of you know off the top rope
Down from the rafters like Sting here comes like the piff and live and just like we’re gonna we kind of see what’s going on from a you can’t really change your product perspective you are like wide open to disruption so now we’re going to come in with literally billions
Of dollars and just kick The Hornet’s Nest and kind of it’s kind of a cow tipping situation we’re just going to tip you over and I don’t think you’re going to be able to like get back up real fast well it’s tough too because you got hey you got the TV product you
Got three different networks you know or three different channels adverti or you know carrying your stuff producing it their own way sometimes streaming sometimes broadcast sometimes on the app yeah the [ __ ] ESP yeah I ESPN plus all that stuff then you’ve got the online product the website was like virtually
Unusable and all these stats you know the statistical product was you know and then listen the app the app was bad that’s I think that’s why the sole reason that you know live that was like the the canary and the coal mine the app saw the app they
Just media that’s that’s spending their lifetime and their their career covering you like openly despises and and has for you it’s tough if you don’t know remember this happening it was it was pretty much around the same time that Charlie Hoffman’s ball rolled into the water at waste management and he was
Like see like this is why guys are going to live to the PGA tour around that same time TC was also saying the app is why guys are going to live we signifies that was a precursor to this exactly that’s right exactly but I I think we’re the
The final I guess point on this topic I would have is and and where I probably would give them maybe I’m a homer but would give them more credit than maybe you would TC is like the idea of like fixing all that stuff in real time while you have all those contracts while
Members are making more money than they ever have like it would have required basically like ripping the emergency break while things were going great stopping pissing everybody off rebuilding the product from the ground up to get to a point where like we’re probably eventually going to get to you
Know three years yeah you need a disruptor you need a challeng you need something to challenge the status quo but at this same time I think that’s why I get so frustrated with how did it like what were they doing from like like you want to talk about a complacent
Organization with no plan or road map or it’s like hey man like life is good we got a thousand employees at at our headquarters like you know I mean [ __ ] I mean think about like working there I mean d you worked there and like the HQ
Was like a series of like strip mall Office Buildings for a while but they they changed it you know they in that possibly at the wrong time with Liv coming right down the pike right afterwards probably would love to have that 70 million bucks but yeah I I just
Struggle with like at some point like if you’re not you know you’re high on the hog Monahan shows up what 20 end of 2016 into the beginning of 2017 yeah and show up as commissioner he was there for a long time and doesn’t really like I think we were expecting more hey you
Know what all right we got we got a fresh set of eyes on this you know fincham’s kind of uh you know sacred cows maybe you know we’ll we’ll maybe freshen some of these things up or or change the strategy here and I think for that three or four years
Or you know that three years preco we didn’t really see a whole lot of of movement or you know emphasis on hey you know let’s let’s better Define what our product is or let’s let’s look here because I think the other thing too is
Like at the end of the day like if we’re defining a product that matters like I think that’s what we’re trying to do here is like hey what’s the product all right it’s all these different products then cool how do you prioritize those things if you what’s at the top of the
Food chain and I think at the top of the food chain is it is making the golf as like the actual golf competition as impactful engaging uh you know competitive as possible and then everything else flows off of that right where and that you know and and so what goes into that
Product that’s schedule that’s venues that’s formats that’s making sure you have the right players eligible for the right stuff that’s size of fields that’s Agronomy and setup that’s you know like all that stuff ladders up right all those details so I think that’s what you know a lot of our Solutions in probably
The last third of this podcast will deal with that all right so I think we’ve we’ve done a good job of establishing what the stakes are what we’re dealing with here hopefully if you’re you came into this being like I want change man like you’re still with us you’re still
Hanging in this is the beginning part of the essay the lecture but I want us pivot now and I want us to embody the voice of the fan all right we’re going to take our like fanal list hats off we’re going to be less you know sort of
Like well that can’t happen necessarily because of this what are the fans wanting here so I want to start with you because I want to ask broadly speaking how many of the Players let’s say I’m I don’t want to talk about sports rushing if you are interested in our views about
That you can literally check out about a 100 podcast for the last two years uh you can hell you can email me and I’ll send you my bullet points that I have whatever but I’m GNA sort of put that aside s everybody seems to want the top players back together again from a
Fans’s perspective how many of them should play against each other what would be the ideal scenario that would then make the product more interesting Ah that’s an interesting question it’s a complicated question I don’t I don’t I’m not 100% confident I know know the answer to that other than
To say we’ve kind of flirted with danced around danced with this idea of a signature elevated designated event whatever they are that are in theory different than regular PGA Tour events but in reality and in presentation in entertainment value they’re remarkably similar just because of how they’ve
Treated it DJ’s long you know said we’ve got two tours here why are we pretending like we don’t I think in terms of product if you ask me the best way to do this would be some sort of the way that Formula 1 does it where it is like the
The PGA Tour or whatever this is going to be called like I don’t know what this new competitive structure is going to be I don’t know whe that’s going to happen but there was a golf product League tour whatever you’d want to call it that had
This many events I don’t know what that number is I would say somewhere between 15 and 20 events adding in the major so maybe 14 tour events or whatever that is let say 20 events sure 20 which counts Majors counts playoffs whatever it is and like that is maybe they just come up
With a new name for it I don’t I don’t know what it would be but that’s that’s that’s the golf league let’s just call it that TG tgl tgl it l l Golf League Golf League Super Golf League sure it’s gonna be played with no roof we’re
Having an open Stadium like the model has another product dude talk about tgl they’ve proven the PGA Tour has proven you can put a field Together full of mostly guys that people aren’t going to pick out of a lineup you can have the RSM and you can give out $8 million or
Whatever that purse is and people will still sign up to pay for it and this many people will watch it and like these golf events have a place to play right but it is not the same as playing at Pebble Beach this past year or playing The Players Championship so like let the
Let there be a second tour and I don’t know if you need to call it the corn fairy tour but like there’s a super golf league and then there’s the PGA tour right and the points for the RSM will not be they will not count towards the
Golf championship race you can have all kinds of membership and eligibility platforms but we’re talking about having something that’s on top of this tour thing that again all these little miniature corporate Hospitality this is your local event this is what you’re going to do this is what you’re going to
Get I think that’s still sells at around seven to 10 million bucks whatever that is underneath this league and then you have if you want to pay 25 million bucks it’s going to be this it’s going to be this product live from is going to be
There all the best players in the world are going to play on this in this event call it a merger call it the tours come back together I don’t really care anymore it doesn’t matter live guys made all their money I get I’m guessing the PJ tour guys are gonna have equity in
This as it’s going to live under PJ tour Enterprises but these 14 events plus the majors and all that adds up to 20 say these 14 are gonna have Bryson again they’re gonna have DJ they’re going to have whatever and these guys are going to compete for this title like you that
Is that is what I think the best way of doing this and it’s hard to picture that because we know PJ tour and we know Liv and we know corn fairy tour but I think moving some entities around within that and coming up with this topof the- funnel thing that is the competitive
Golf thing with the number one thing being how do we make this the most Buzzy and the most interesting thing for golf fans for for sports fans or just people in general to be interested in have to start from that and figure out the rest from there D that’s that’s where think
It gets hard is I don’t think there’s like some magic Panacea to turn casual sports fans into golf fans and that’s where the a hill I would die on is like unless you dramatically reinvent the product I don’t think you know like tennis is the best comp with with golf
Right I watch Wimbledon I don’t really have a lot of other time in my in my you’re not watching the ATP 1000 in Miami this week I’m not I’m not let me know what happens and that’s where I think the biggest like uh Paradox in this whole thing is like the golfers
Thinking that they’re worth this much and the audience having this much time outside of like the core and that’s what I think the PJ tour has again biggest strength and weakness at the same time is it has an unbelievable core of golf fans who will watch a bunch of no names
Play events that they’ve watched every year forever my dad loves watching golf on Sunday afternoon doesn’t even really care what tournament it is right like that’s that’s like a massive strength and a core that you can like build around but I don’t know how you add more
People to that core without like making them go through the 101 2011 301 401 how to be a golf fan class which is I think where the live stuff comes from I think that’s where a lot of it is like no we’re going to shortcut this thing we’re
Going to put music they’re going to be wearing shorts check this [ __ ] out they’re going to have rangefinders it’s going to be awesome and like nobody [ __ ] cares like that’s not unless you’re unless you’re there on site like I I do you know there’s people that will ride hard for the live inperson
Experience as something that is way more fun than going to a PJ Tour event something I would never quibble with I’ve never been to a live event people like what they like that’s great but from a TV product standpoint like it’s pretty much the same thing and if it was
Like wildly different people would be flocking to it but like they don’t care because there’s already like a better version of what live is doing that people already don’t care about so like why would I watch Like a worse version of something I already don’t give a [ __ ]
About the comp to that or the the like last part of that is like if you are going to bring in those casual fans it’s just natural that that’s going to start with like the Ridder cup the majors like those types of like the Wimbledon events
Where it’s like no I can wrap my head around like this is all that matters you’re telling me all that matters is like these Majors then I’ll probably start there unless I’m you know unless they’re playing some greater Milwaukee Open tennis tournament that I’m like oh
Yeah maybe I’ll go check that out sounds great but like it’s the idea a that like we’re just going to flip some switch and turn people into like we’re just going to have 10x the amount of golf fans to match up what these shows think they
Should make is like so stupid to me that’s the part that makes no sense have you considered capes though about how much Mak I I think all right you do you guys agree with that or no not not quite got a lot to say not quite because I
Think there’s a few things that that putting Liv aside that the PJ tour has going for them in a positive way like I I think if we’ve seen all right they’ve lost a bunch of good players you know not everyone’s gravitating over to live to watch John ROM though like there’s people that
Stick around and the ratings are down but people are sticking with watching caffeine TV PGA Tour go of course thank you ratings are down 20% 30% whatever they are but like even in a bad situation A Mill over a million people are sitting and watch PGA Tour events
Why is that being on network TV having a steady place to watch it like people human behavior is you this is probably active listenership that we have right now but a lot of people just want to watch golf on CBS or golf on NBC that’s and that’s the core I’m talking about
That is a core that’s a core to build around right so you have that you have still a sport that people are going to actively play like and is continuing to grow postco like there is a link between golf that people play and the professional game but I think there’s
Still plenty of people that play it that can’t stand to watch it on television and just like again if you improve the experience of watching on television improve the Intrigue around it it can become a lot more interesting to watch like it can be something that people gravitate towards and the third thing
I’d say there too is like the full swing impact like the Netflix impact is like that is a big reason that D like that impact and changes made in the structure of how their product was presented had Formula 1 have a massive boost now formula one’s run into a problem since
Then of their competitive product has taken a massive hit with ver verstappen’s dominance and I I would imagine their ratings are down off their Peak I haven’t been watching it as much because I’m not as interested in the competitive product all that’s to say like if you make tangible improvements
In the competitive product from technology from core setup from Agronomy all that plus an entertain like what worked I think we can all point to TPC sass last week as we’re recording this last week a good golf course and a really good television product created a
Really compelling telev it had a lot of people watching it it was down from last year but like way more people watch that then watched Waste Management right like it kind of shows that if you take care of some of these boxes there’s a huge group of people to pull from and you
Have a funnel of like casual fans like getting caught up on your sport that like when they do turn it on aren’t immediately going to get turned off if you deliver on meeting the competitive excitement of those things right so it all kind of works together to say like
It can impr I really strongly do believe it can improve there is interest there hundreds of thousands of people listen to our podcast every week when the majors are eight months away like there is interest outside of the biggest events in professional golf it should be more people watching these things there
Should be more Buzz about it it should be more water cooler talk but again it just is such an unwatchable product for the most of the time that it just kind of ruins it I don’t know I’d love the yeah I’d love the ball I’m gonna I’m
Just gonna pass you the ball now what react to that respond to that and then I’m gonna pivot after that we’re gonna talk television how the I think where Max had some really good Max had some really good comments on that kind of core core fan thing of like hey at some point
It’s just golf and not everybody’s going to be interested in it and it’s it’s not for everybody and it’s not fast-paced and we’re not going to turn it into something and like I think that’s a key thing here is like we’re trying to make this the product better for core fans
Because I think if the core demographic is taken care of then it seems like the PGA Tour is in a much healthier spot for 10 years there 15 years there it seemed like all they did was try to gatekeep stuff and not innovate and and all of
That and I think you know if PE like I think if we’re excited about golf that rubs off on our audience if our audience is excited about watching what they watch the Players then they’re they’re more likely to tune in to the next event they’re more likely to tune in next year
Or you know have their friends who they play golf with they talk about on the golf course you know what you should really give it another chance it’s good so all that totally with you there I think s even from like a purse perspective of let’s say the you know
The well I I I hate to keep in the John Deere classic but like the John Deere classic week before the British Open and it’s you know it’s a we’ll say it’s an $8 million purse even if that sponsorship gets less valuable like let’s say that turns into a $5 million
Thing instead of an eight million purse I still think there’s there’s there’s such a value in saying all right not all these things are created equal all you’re doing is is pulling your best stuff down yes a few rungs like like the whole finam era is C
Is characterized by no we have 50 events a year we have this this wraparound schedule everything’s created equal the RSM and the players and the and the fortunet out in Napa and now it’s like all right they’ve kind of gotten halfway there where they’re like all right the
Fall series is different this stuff doesn’t ladder up to the FedEx Cup season and all of that and then on top of that you know you’ve got this other thing where it’s like all right the FedEx cup thing is under pinning everything well if FedEx were to go away
Tomorrow or if Fred Smith’s friends with Tim F and J Monahan like if if he you know if he retires or whatever like all right maybe you know maybe something else comes in there but it’s it’s one of those things where there’s just such a they’ve bundled all this [ __ ] together
And at some point they just kind of got to unbundle that stuff and the the hope would be that everything that you’re like those 14 to 16 events that you’re talking about Su that move intern Al that that you know if you’re truly going to do a global thing and Leverage The DP
World Tour and all of that and and make these showcase events you do a range walk like Formula 1 does a grid walk and you make you know you have live from there and you make it feel all the best players are there whether that’s 60 or
80 or 100 guys or whatever then those I think those tournaments become so much more valuable for the sponsors that you’re really after on that front where hey a 30 or $40 million thing on that that’s coming out of their Global advertising budget it’s not just coming out of their American or North
American advertising budget and you know it’s like it’s there’s companies out there that won’t sponsor golf because it’s too regionalized right and so if if you feel like hey we can start you know really hitting golfers all over the world with this instead of just the PGA
Tour is a us-based product I think that changes the the calculus and then that money flows down to the the rest of the membership as well I think one thing I want to clar because I agree with everything that you guys just said is I don’t uh deny or don’t think that like
There are more people who are open to watching golf like there definitely definitely are and there are ways to raise the floor like dramatically but what I think the dev like the de the devil is uh in the details where the ceiling might be the
Roof s is uh trying to figure out like the Delta between like what that number of what’s the best case scenario for raising the floor and what is like the business economics that are required to make that happen because right now it seems like the floor is not nearly high
Enough and the ceiling or the roof of like how much money it’s going to require to make these persones what they need to be raking these sponsors over the coals like that’s where like that doesn’t make sense so like both sides aren’t making sense right now tot and I
Think it’s a matter of like whether it’s possible for them to meet in the middle yeah I mean some of it I think is like the players just need to be realistic of like hey what’s your value you know which is hard when you have this is why
We always say irrational actor it’s hard when you have like someone with an endless piggy bank telling you like no no no you’re actually worth this much and then and then also you know you add agents in the equation and all that so I think there’s definitely there’s
Something there but I do think there’s there’s a uh like I don’t think we’re talking about adding a 100 million people to watching golf right it’s like it’s already the most sought after Dem graphic and and you know from a household income perspective or from
From a you know kind of hey we want to reach these people with disposable income that sort of thing like that’s not changing it’s just a matter of all right cool like we you know like we need to Define what our product even is all right so from the fans perspective again
I’m I’d say I’m a fan of golf and the big thing that really annoys me and the reason I can’t get into it is the television product I try to turn into the riter cup and I just get punched in the face over and over again with the same [ __ ] Colin moraca their
Alligator commercial look I like YouTube I got teenagers who like YouTube I want to turn on and see like I don’t know the guys from good good on the thing I want to see like get Bob does sports playing in a tournament what’s realistic from your perspective uh about how the TV
Product can improve is it involving these YouTubers is it putting more than just sort of an ear pod in someone’s ears how can the TV product get better first first thing they can do if you are a sponsor of one of these 14 to 16 big ass events you get commercial free last
Hour of coverage on Saturday and Sunday and you get your logo on the screen at all times during that you can even have your CEO interview you can do you sponsor a player in the field we’ll do a Walkin talk with them whatever just show us the golf that’s that feels like maybe
Step one yeah I would build on that just creative ways of supplementing the advertising income like I feel like those units exist in order again to like derive some or to like arrive at like a number like a value number to sell to these title sponsors right like they say
The agencies will sign off on right like you’re G if you sponsor this tournament it means you’re going to get X number of TV units that’s how we you know that times this that’s how we added up to this title sponsorship number I I don’t even think that like sponsors would push
Back on having less of those commercials in there most of them like we’ve said this a thousand times there are so many awful awful awful like somebody from PJ tour tell me why this couldn’t be changed tomorrow there are so many awful in-house ads for the golf that I’m
Already watching like if you gave a [ __ ] about like fixing things and if you had a number one priority for instance if that priority was like improving The Telecast as I would say that it should be like how does that stuff not go away tomorrow with just a little bit of elbow
Grease and some creativity and like some some a couple meetings like figure that out that’s part of it is like we’ve been talking about this [ __ ] for seven eight years we’re on the second media deal from when we started this and things like you know things are gradually but
It’s like I I think part of it is why are the same people being allowed to solve these issues that they’ve clearly said aren’t important to them for the last seven or eight years right or or the last 20 years of hey let’s let’s get
Some new blood in here and you know I I saw something this week of the the PGA Tour is like owns the new broadcast trucks so CBS NBC golf channel they’re they’re basic like the tours trying to take more control of the broadcast product but again is that a good thing
Or a bad thing because you’ve got people that have been there for forever who think the broadcast should look a certain way and back to the commercial stuff like soccer soccer is the most watched sport in the world there’s there’s zero commercials between for for 45 minutes to 50 minutes in the first
Half and then there’s halftime and there’s some shoulder programming there’s a pregame and there’s a postgame and there’s some commercials during halftime but otherwise you have boards up on the outside of of the of the pitch you’ve got a Lo a sponsor logo on uh you
Know on screen for a lot of it and then you’ve got you know sponsorships on the jerseys cool with golf we already have we have the players getting sponsored we have like why like why can’t we incorporate some of that like you know soccer clearly seems to be pretty
[ __ ] profitable for NBC and like for some of these same Partners to televise and yet like it’s not you know it’s not Laden with 24 minutes of commercials an hour right I I think quick I don’t know if that was rhetor but my retort would be two big differences golf is expensive
As [ __ ] to telecast and that’s that’s like the you know we’re not big meanies like we understand that that is the case and you know I if I could make it cheaper I would uh but it you to make it cheaper is not televise wall to–all coverage from like the 20 events that
Don’t matter as much Focus your produ focus the resources and everything on the 14 to 16 or 20 that we’re saying do 100 % and two would be the difference between soccer players and golfers is that one are you know a set of independent contractors who sell their
Own sponsorships who are not out there wearing jerseys which are able to be sold to sponsors and and all of that so like there is a big difference between like they’re only able to do so much with the players and like the quote unquote uniforms that they do that they
Lose out Revenue there but like the Billboards on the golf course I mean you guys watch a lot of DP World Tour they have Billboards everywhere like does that ever bother you when there’s a they’re hitting over a billboard part three like who gives the only time that
Bothers me is when it’s back when there’s back stopping of course that’s not as big of an issue on the DP World Tour as it is on the on the PGA tour well there’s also watching baseball too there’s there’s like the way they do playing through their version of playing
Through and a lot of them is like a quick 15-second cut in in between pitches right and it’s a tight time period but like there’s plenty of time in a golf broadcast for a quick advertisement that’s not going to lose your attention but if I’m a PJ tour
Advertiser and I have the third commercial in a whatever a six commercial block of break from the action nobody is seeing that one it’s a repeat commercial because they sell these things in massive block the sponsors don’t even want them anymore but they’ve bought this big package that
You know that’s one of the things that comes with it is your commercial is going to be shown this time it’s all run by people that just want to win the PDF and win the slideshow deck and show the engagement numbers and all this stuff that’s so so [ __ ] and broken that like
Gets me really worked up but like again we’re not talking no commercials we’re talking about trimming house ads for NBC CBS house ads for PGA Tour and doing less cins for like the sponsors of the events and quick like staying on screen my eyes are still on there and giving
You broadcast value for your product whatever it could be a read from somebody it could be you know I’ve seen images where you reduce you know the screen becomes almost 75% of it and the outer edges are clearly The Branding from State Farm or something like that
And you know you can have an audio message in there quickly but like you’re not losing attention from the event you do those like three things and you go from 18 minutes down to I don’t know 12 or 10 per hour that’s an entirely different product entirely different
Product and it makes the actual like you know advertising inventory more valuable too because then all right let’s say more people are watching it and there’s less of it cool that’s that’s a supply and demand thing and I think like s on your thing with like the live cins as
Well of like you know make those additive right like I think the other thing that kills me about the TV product k is when they try to like when they treat the audience like we’re [ __ ] idiots and it’s it’s like oh you know what he gets 600 FedEx Cup points with this like
No dip [ __ ] he gets to go to the Masters or you know like he just won $2 million and he’s got his card locked up and it’s like what even is a PJ tour card right it’s a whole other thing truly like that yeah that is a whole other podcast so I
Was trying to think of like an 8 minute song like picture like Stairway to Heaven or something like even going from 18 18 to 10 imagine once an hour you have to take a break and just listen to Stairway to Heaven once an hour for four
Hours for 4 hours you have to you have to just keep doing it like that’s you know St to Heavens you know L ze’s great like like Stairway to Heaven was like a Carly Ray jebson song that’s 12 minutes long for like you know for workplace Solutions I think we’ve we’ve come up
With some suggestions that are helpful for the uh you know the television product uh I would also ads ads are necessary we don’t we don’t mind like that’s that’s the thing it’s like oh well you know like you guys have [ __ ] commercials on your podcast you have ads
Yeah we have like two and a half minutes three minutes max for an hour on our most two minutes yeah two minut Max per hour One commercial per 30 minutes on average for the year and we beat that policy now well we break for an interview with Neil Shuster this
10-minute interview about uh how the business is going and we’re not we’re not idiots to say like they should follow our policy like it’s a totally different like and again but it’s allit it’s like more of these things that you can unpack when you overpay for the
Product and when NBC is and Comcast are going to treat Golf Channel and golf in general just like a total line item and and just look at the profit and loss on that uh you know it’s going to be nothing but Cuts Cuts cuts and it’s
Going to look like it does like it’s just the part that’s really discouraging so the reason I think this is important too because I know we’re we’re waiting into [ __ ] territory here the reason for that is everything we said at the beginning of the pod which is like there
Has to be one Central pillar like product that we’re gearing up towards and right now it’s the thing that we like can’t stop bitching about and that that’s what is so frustrating to me and I don’t know if maybe this moves is into the next section but Tron we were
Talking about the other day and it’s like the tour has 800 simultaneous problems right now everybody’s mad at everybody the broadcast stinks the setups stink the golf courses think there’s like so many issues and if you told me to like write down like what’s the number one
Thing the tour is focused on solving I would have absolutely no idea because it seems like they’re trying to solve 30 things at once which just seems like it’s like irritating everybody very much including like the fans and the players don’t even want to watch their own
Tournaments that’s kind of where I’m at is like at least at least just identify like okay the what is the main what’s the main problem what’s the main irritant like that we’re we’re trying to solve and maybe that’s just impossible right now cuz considering kind of the hostile environment but even before all
This popped off I wouldn’t know what the number one thing was that they were trying to fix like I but even for players like all right like what’s the product for players the product maybe is like hey they want to play in the best possible atmospheres in front of big
Crowds for big purses at the best courses that are in the best condition the best time of the year right like and then all of that seem like doesn’t seem to be in conflict with what we’re after from a TV product perspective because that stuff improves the TV product all
That stuff improves you know all right cool we want to avoid you know fall like we want to avoid uh you know football in the fall cool maybe that’s when some of the international stuff is or you know hey like it’s like why are we going to
Pebble in February right like all that stuff is just like that that affects the TV product too because it’s you know it doesn’t look as good the course doesn’t doesn’t present as well all that stuff it’s worth pointing out that TV product has improved massively on the CBS side
At least in in the last eight years really I mean tremendously it really has I think what’s interesting TC about that like the whole the best players the best courses the best time slots like all that stuff makes a ton of sense I think everybody would sign up for that and the
Next question is like okay well how do you pay for it and where we Circle back to okay well it’s probably not great that farmers is leaving probably not great that Wells Fargo is leaving probably not great that you know a lot of these title sponsors are just
Becoming a much tougher cell that and that again is back to the original conflict which is to say like if you so a problem has been again back to the mission statement it’s basically a a lot of short-term stuff of like plating opportunities money now can’t turn that
Down blah blah blah in a in a if we’re zooming out to say like okay well if there was like an in theory an investor in this in this league or tour in theory that may be able to help you come up with a long-term plan that’s how you pay
For it a liquid investor here that would come in and maybe fund some of the short-term obligations of this with with a better long-term Vision to help grow the top of the bucket like that’s where things start to get interesting in terms of you know again if there’s piff who’s
Got some dumb money and you know SSG that I would not classify as dumb money they’re going to want to return in some capacity on on what whatever the hell PJ enterpris seen the Met’s payroll true we can debate that also though like I mean
Some of it too Sol is like even this the TV partners that have signed up for this like we’re in what like the second or third year of the new TV deal and NBC’s been bitching about it since the day they signed it like then don’t [ __ ]
Sign it guys like you know and and like that’s the thing too it’s like you can’t cry poor on something that we’re in like year two of it’s crazy where you know or like hey if this is a lost leader then treat it like a lost leader because it’s
Making all your it’s a Prestige thing and it’s making all your other properties that much more valuable instead of just it’s like you’re doing the worst of Both Worlds where you’re you’re making it unwatchable for the Ryder Cup and you’re choking it off for future fans that hey there’s no on-ramp
Anymore like nobody’s going to want to watch this and so all you’re doing is diminishing the value even more of what this thing looks like in 26 27 2030 of you know like you’re shooting yourself in the foot just because because you know you’re on a quarterly reporting
Structure to Wall Street Comcast all right all right I can’t let TC keep turning the bitchiness dial up and looking at the audience and seeing it I I but I do want to Pivot back s and Tron I want you to sort of tackle this one
All right I’m a fan I like to see birdies like uh birdies are seem like really cool give me an argument why like what setup should we be trying to to have here what’s your what’s my ideal golf tournament going forward and why does uh certain setup make things more
Appealing kbv I’m I’m trompet at the bit for this one and I’ll toss it over to S after this okay context matters if everybody’s making birdies birdies don’t mean anything right like all right why all if birdies are sick then why is the event at TPC Craig Ranch not the most
Watched event on the PGA tour schedule right like distance TC people want to see the the ball go far that’s what they want all right cool everybody you know 340 cool that means we can’t go to should play only in Colorado should play only in Colorado if distance sells
Why is every event not in Colorado why do we not have something in Salt Lake City why yeah yeah rankings are gonna be a mess if we play in Colorado it’s gonna be tough but all right so on that front too like all right if everybody’s
Hitting a 330 yard drive then does a 330 yard drive like like all right who’s who’s the longest players all they’re doing is actually washing out the context and and and diminishing any context versus versus making it so hey you know what the longest player like that’s actually really impressive or
This guy’s and I think all it’s done is raise parody as well of it’s made it harder for the truly dominant best players to Showcase their dominance and skill and I think it’s actually hurt the product in the macro sense of play you know uh there’s less Stars there’s less
Recognizable there’s less dominance right so s can I make the setups uh harder in a way that is able to challenge players in the modern game so I I think it it’s like two different paths we have to go down with this right and if it’s and I’ve kind of come around
A little bit on this in terms of like if we’re on the current path we’re on which is ball going forever not spinning and whatnot I I’m as much as I’m a fan of wide W you know width and angles and and wide Fairways and kind of the the
Creativity that comes with that I don’t know if that’s the best product for uh this high of Technology like I’ve kind of come around on like maybe there should be some rough in some of these like there should be some now it’s really hard to do that thoughtfully like
I think beill does not do that thoughtfully I think a lot of cours on PJ tour definitely do not do that thoughtfully but at the same time like some more consequence for uh shots that have gone offline and some penalties um are required in in some way now a
Separate path would be a golf ball that does not go nearly this far which I am a huge fan of a driver heads that punish off center misses way more so the fact that like a wider Fairway can would mean a lot more there if if like if a heal
Shot is going to go in the rough you can have more fair more width in the fairways as it stands now doesn’t make sense for 330 yard drives to try to land in 20 yard wide gaps just be like the scale is just the whole thing is messed
Up that’s a whole another separate podcast right but it’s all to say like setting up um this this era as as TC has said is automatically you just literally describe the equipment it is going to bring more players closer together we have done a bunch of deep Dives uh kbv
Of looking into past past uh you know periods of golf and like there’s a reason why Jack Nichols could separate so much from the field in that time period because that man wore out the center of the club face he wore it out he was the best at hitting that and like
Now it’s just natural like as closer and closer and closer as we get to perfect golf there’s no such thing but the closer we get to it with all the workouts all the trackman all the foresight all the everything all the technology all of it heading towards one
Thing naturally just guys are going it’s going to be harder to separate like that’s in inarguable it’s not whether ship hting contest yeah wherever you stand on the distance debate it’s it’s not arguable that it brings people closer together like that is the one thing that is I will not accept any
Argument on so all that’s to say like it the the chances of having star power like TC said are way less in this era and it is a you need it like you need it engulf there’s a reason what we love the duels the Watson vers Nicholas the uh
You know the the tiger and Phil the area that they were in they just clearly separated from that VJ was a total star Ernie Els was a total star and now we’re just kind of seeing this time period we’re like yeah maybe maybe Mor how only
Gets two majors we maybe thought he was Tom Watson maybe TC said he was win major maybe he only wins two like that is an issue in golf right if you want the best like I think if you were G to think about more people tuning in and
More excitement for it it is like watching career progression like we saw from Phil um you know we have a couple of those guys in this era but at the same time like it just it is just guys are kind of put more in a blender with way that
Current setups are and also and again there’s so many tentacles to this but it’s like you’re kind of choosing from your own this little lot of golf courses that you can even go to to begin with and they’re not the most interesting golf courses so people that complain
That we is there a golf course you do like it’s like yeah of the ones the pro golf sh game chooses not that many like there’s not that many there’s way better ones out there that don’t make sense to go to with the current technology it’s a
Very iterative whole thing kind of stuff we’ve talked about for a long period of time and I don’t remember what your original question was other than like the interest all come like Augusta is brilliant at like the consequence is very easy to understand of of the certain shots of missing there is like
You don’t even need to be a hardcore fan to be like oh God that is trouble over there or that’s an incredible shot and a lot more PJ tourque courses um that that consequence is is is not really there to the same extent all right TC let’s say
That since we’re going to make this a global product and we’re focusing on the television aspect of this stuff and we know the setups need to get better could I in theory create a few more tournaments a year that I could bring 30 40 guys to seal to Pacific Dunes to Pine
Valley to what places could I go that would make uh this kind of golf compelling are are there other golf courses out there that are on the radar that I could I couldn’t convince I don’t need to bring in 25,000 fans every day maybe I bring in 2,000 fans but I’m
Broadcasting this around the world where are some places that we could go that would make this uh worthwhile yeah well you know what KB it’s funny you mention that because the PGA Tour has this entire network of courses that were supposedly purpose-built to host professional golf tournaments that
Seemingly like don’t promote any of the things that we want to see out of a professional golf tournament and apart from sass I would say with the ex of like a saw grass or even River Highlands kind of problem is they built 90s and then the technology blew up because they
Didn’t regulate it like a like all these courses got outdated so fast but but yeah I think it’s you know but it comes down to priorities right of all right how many guys are in the field how many you know what’s the corporate footprint because some of it’s not even distance
Related some of it’s just hey this is too small of a piece of property and we can’t put corporate Hospitality up on it but if you get it back to all right the TV product is the thing and we can you know we can have fans here there’s not
Going to be 100,000 fans there could be 10,000 fans I think there’s something there but I think the other thing too is finding places that have volatility right if there’s nothing worse in TV product with than than I think with the the the equipment making it to where you
Know off-center hits aren’t penalized and you know knowing that all right down the stretch of a tournament there’s there’s not a lot of volatility or when guys are like you know knowing what like like s said consequences knowing what a good shot is and a great shot is of hey
When when you know I think personally speaking I I I think you could have cut the rough or you know cut the collar down on 17 or on the right side of 16 last week at Saw Grass and made it a lot more you know uh kind of a lot stronger
Contrast between what a what a bad shot is and what a good shot is same with that strip of rough at TPC River Highland S I mean it’s it’s one of those things of like if there’s more volatility and there’s more oh man this guy’s hanging on for dear life down the
Stretch of of a PGA Tour event like man I think I think more people are going to watch that instead of it just being all right this guy’s got a three shot lead and you know we’re we’re kind of trundling towards a a relatively you know Bland finish and I think yeah so
That that comes down to you know and I think the other thing is like the ball on the ground like there’s nothing more exciting on watching golf when the ball is like the the players do not have control of the ball when it’s on the ground they’re in complete control when
It’s in the air and there’s drama there’s suspense there’s there’s that hold your breath moment at the best golf tournaments that’s why August is so great because the ball is on those greens and rolling for so long why everybody loves watching the Open Championship y um you know or like and
There’s there’s something there and so I feel like hey what are these like let’s distill this down to what are the best ingredients that make really good TV golf tournaments what make those like what set those apart and then try to lean into those kind of simple you know basic
Ingredients and then work our way back out from there well said well said DJ you know what a big Phil Mickelson guy I am uh you know he and I have been saying for a couple years boy you know what would be sick is if we had a Ridder cup
Style event between the live guys and the PGA Tour guys I mean we know as Phil and I would say the live guys would just dominate they would cry they would make the other guys cry why can’t we have something like this is this a realistic possibility let’s let’s just roll our 12
Out there and play for a billion dollars and you know just make it the Super Bowl of golf so a couple things one I know this is kind of a joke but sincerely that would be my favorite event of the year I I can’t tell you how quickly I
Would sign up to watch every shot of that event and like bring it on truly I’m I’m so in on that idea and I think like the entire Golf World yes truly like I don’t think anybody would ever do it like I don’t I don’t know why you
Would be a n s you would [ __ ] macro I I don’t know if I would want to further exacerbate the gulf Wars right I don’t think it’s like has longevity i i i unless it’s just not different enough I mean it would like completely normalize live and it would like L
Better than president comeup it would raise the floor of live but yeah like having a team that you like root for and a team you root against like I I think would be like electric I think the why it obviously will not happen is because golf again we kind of touched on this
But it’s such a different sport where now you have like the players actually becoming stakeholders and and actual like uh you know Equity holders in their sport like what upside is there for Rory or Scotty or spe or any of these guys to like sign up for an event like this but
Again like do I think that is a dramatic dramatic difference that would bring in a bunch of casual fans even if it’s like a short-term bump like yeah hell yeah I do well and like there’s there’s Revenue associated with that too having talked to Rory about this whole stuff recently
He would actually I think be like you know what as much as this sucks to swallow my ego and like make these people on an equal playing field if we’re trying to make this a better product that that actually like Rises the Tide to lift all boats then maybe I
Should suck it up and do this like he he doesn’t like want to play golf again with Phil and Bryson and people but like I think he has a good sense of like that’s what best for the products the fans want like we have to swallow our
Egos a little bit that’s where I think that he does differentiate a little bit from some of his peers who are like man F those guys like I think there’s a lot of people who’d be like I’m never stepping on a you know same playing field as them to equal them I don’t
Think Rory is actually one of those I think that’s different than what I think that’s different than what the question is though I don’t think again a live vers PGA Tour cup or whatever is only going to further like cement this like split Squad thing whereas roor is kind
Of like we got to get the golf world back together and I’m fine to go play next to these guys cuz that’s what’s going to serve golf fans unless seemingly it doesn’t it doesn’t seem like we’re any closer to doing that so that’s where I’m at yeah and it’s like
Cool then you know what like let’s make the most of it and I mean [ __ ] I’d love to talk about this on the Sunday pod this week of like cool like if you’re live which 12 guys are you sending out there like it’s fascinating and who are
You sending from the PGA Tour and like you know who’s going to get too amped or who Norman having to make those calls I’m sorry not not bringing you Martin ker if you’re telling me like you could wake up on a Sunday morning and you have Taylor gu versus Scotty Sheffer as like
The the leadoff match of like deciding this event like you wouldn’t be just glued to that event I I straight up do not believe you that’d be better than the Ryder Cup I i’ I guess I’d have to think about that more it just all they are is just
Dudes that picked like two different I if one thing is live is established is like we’ have no idea how these teams came together right and like why they definitely should not do it by the way it just again it’s just shooting themselves repeatedly in the foot but
Would I watch it as a fan yes I would that’s what I’m trying to say that’s all right so what what s I think you got one more thing but maybe it’s part of this what element of Team golf should play a role in whatever we have next because I
Think it’s pretty clear that yaser for whatever reason feels like there should be team golf going forward live has sort of Stak there we’re different on this how do we do that going forward because I as a fan I I don’t care about Liv
Maybe but I do like the idea of like a Jordan spe Justin Thomas team taking on you know a John ROM uh walk Neiman team on a a lazy Saturday morning from Wentworth or something let’s let’s say well what element of that should be part
Of it I’m back and forth on this because I was all in on the the the uh pgl I had to think about what his actually the acronym was it’s been so long on it but the plan sounded super interesting because honestly PJ Tour golf had gotten
Super stale and it just needed a shakeup of some kind and there’s a lot of really good ideas there and yet since then I I think I’ve I I I I think one thing I’ve maybe undersold about that was the fact like the majors are going to be 72 holes
Of stroke play and like that is the the peak format of golf right now do I think that there needs to be 47 events mimicking that no I do not but like there’s something to golf being being an individual Sport and 72 holes a stroke play is like the majority of what’s
Going to make this up now I do like PJ tour is now January through August and the fall is kind of like figuring out eligibility and all that and like do I think that there is space for the top 48 guys to make fourman teams and play in
That time period and as long as you can explain to me how these teams are actually coming together as long as there’s a [ __ ] draft there has to be a draft like there has to be some qualification for this league if you want like people to actually care about
This it not be drawn up on the back of a napkin with clip art and and things like cleaks I’m sorry TC but like they just you just can’t you just can’t do that how dare you disrespect the trades the trade market that’s going on to live
Right now the hot trade market and it just it has to have everyone it’s just not gonna it has to so like I think there there’s something to it I just can’t um I don’t think there’s enough you can’t have all these big PJ tour events or whatever super Golf League
Events that we’re talking about all the majors and Ridder cup and intertwin team stuff within all that in the same schedule that is where things just don’t work in my opinion so perfect world it doesn’t sound like they’re that close to this but you know four round stroke play
Events take place January through August and team stuff happens in the fall um you can get creative on what night of the week it is it doesn’t have to be Sunday doesn’t have to be four rounds it doesn’t have you know is it you know JT’s fourman team plays rah’s fourman
Team on a Wednesday afternoon on the west coast which is somewhat Prime Time on the East and it’s a one day thing it’s matches you know one night there’s a winner and a loser total for that week and like you have a win you know one win
One loss out of it instead of points and all that is there something there I think there is I just uh they’re so far away from getting that figured out and that doesn’t seem to be the way that they’re kind of picturing this it seems like there’s so much lwh hanging fruit
Too like there’s like like you said s like TV Windows all right cool like going to boost fers ship cool get more Prime Time [ __ ] going on or you know there just there’s like use time zones to your advantage or we always hear a [ __ ] about like oh you know what like
There’s no sponsors down in Australia well you know what like there’s a [ __ ] Formula 1 race there every year like and and leverage your your big ass sponsors instead of getting them to to to sponsor one event no sponsor like be you know they have Rolex and pelli and
Aramco and DHL and hinin it’s like then have you know separate them out and hey sponsor this 15 event series and you don’t have to have one sponsor per event all right guys welcome to the lightning round I think this is what’s going to bring the Pod to a close here we’re just
Going to kind of go rapid fire around here uh we’re going to talk about what we think the priorities are what if you were commissioner for a day and you were sort of building out your own League essentially what would you choose to improve things uh DJ you’ve been you’ve
Been so patient and so thoughtful throughout this here I’m going to go ahead and just make the executive decision to give you the first pick if you had the Dumbledore s power to wave your wand what would be the first thing you’d have to do uh it’s a thorny one
Lots of problems but I I don’t know how you could take anything else with the number one draft pick other than bringing all the players back together I I think that is my my number one pick has to absolutely has to happen non-negotiable so I’m going to go to
Second pick to you uh we got the players back together now what are we doing next well the more people are going to be interested in the product because the players are back together which means we’re going to modernize the way we do commercials and PR present the entertainment aspect of our sport
Including monetizing our media rights meaning you’re not going to put a strangle hold on people on social media that want to use your content uh for promotional purposes uh doing things like major league baseball has done where you can’t open up your phone without seeing a Major League Baseball
Highlight that should be that way for golf you can take 18 minutes commercials down to 10 through some creativity and cutting out some stuff uh and keeping people drawn into the product uh through that lens TC going to you we’ve got a better product now we’ve we’ve got all the
Players back together what’s next I think it’s where where and when we play I think it’s it’s you know trimming out some of the shittier venues I think it’s going to best venues at the right times I think it’s rethinking the playoff structure that doesn’t make so stupid
Right now all right then what’s the regular season if we have a playoffs D I think it’s it’s just rethinking the schedule and uh you know making it easier to digest and make like hey what are these tournament’s mean all right this isn’t the sexiest
Pick on my end this is kind of like picking an offensive tackle uh in the first round but I’m going to go with pace of play I want to establish a shot clock we’re gonna get you have to get over the ball and hit your shot sorry S
I know that pace of play is you know not your favorite topic but we are gonna get these products moving I don’t want to to linger as much uh we are and you know what we’re gonna en Force penalties you’re going to learn I don’t care if it
Messes with your process you’re going to learn to hit the ball quickly kbv I wish I would have had a chance to trade up for that because that was going to be my next round draft piic was just enforce the [ __ ] rules guys like people want to see you want context you want
Competition you want it to mean something cool enforce the rules like hey if if the rulle says you got to hit a shot in 45 seconds you got to hit a shot in 45 seconds hire more rules officials whatever that takes I think KBB there should be a flop wall uh
Friend of ours sent this over where all right if you want to take Tio relief wait a you yeah where where did this I I I got some compensatory selection thank you for all you’ve done competitive balance text yeah uh where you know I feel like all right you want
To take a a a Tio relief cool it’s going to be in the shittiest longest rough possible kind of like what the British Open does now or there’s a flop wall where all right cool you you can drop it there but you have to flop it over this
All right let’s pick our battles guys we got to pick our battles that was that was going to be my pick and all right d I’m sorry flop walls off the board but you’re back on the board you I’m I’m going to zoom in on one of TC’s picks
I’m just going to add a little more specificity uh you’re talking about venues and Times of year and stuff I’m GNA specifically say move the Tour Championship to Pebble Beach I I think Pebble Beach is more the way I wrote it in my original written piece that didn’t
End up getting published was like Pebble Beach is more famous than any of the players on the PJ tour straight up that is the reason you tune in and why the [ __ ] are we going there in February when we know the weather’s going to be awful
It is it’s it’s kind of a uh bygone era of this big erector set that the PJ tour has become where it’s just been kind of slowly built on and bolted on and bolted on and bolted on and it’s now it’s like a part proam part big huge entertainment
Product part TV thing part local thing it just it doesn’t make any sense anymore and having it in September with the 30 best players in the world with perfect weather on the west coast before football starts is like dude tune me into that that that is a true season
Ending like Jewel I think all right sa you’re on the board again some some good things have been picked already but there still a lot of good players available to build a team clearly separate what what the golf that matters versus the golf that doesn’t and obviously frame that in a different way
But like Formula 1 has 23 events you you earn points in those that is the the championship race is that and it is not at it is not tennis it is like these are the 20 events that are for the title of the super Golf League PJ tour whatever
You want to call it that is these events it will not be the John Deere like that is to try to qualif is are all qualifying ways those are golf tournaments that are going to pay out money and you can qualify through those for this upper league but this is the
Golf that counts Jordan Speed goes down and plays the John Deere no points for that in the overall Championship race whatever that is this is the golf the counts this is easy to understand sponsors pay more for this one the rest is something different so on that note
What I’ve what I’ve like been circling in my head is this idea that we would ever have somebody like having like a a player win like a shitty event on the PJ tour is the worst possible thing for your product you could you could you could have right where it is always people
Always throw out the airic coal thing at the at the the Honda the cognizant whatever country music sensation like man what an amazing story that was to like now he played his way in he just totally changed his life like what I was talking about with the core fans that
Will watch tournaments every week like interlace those zipper those have a big one an off one a big one and off one like the same people are going to watch all those tournaments and it just seems like having very clear like these are the life-changing events and then these
Are the like events you play after your life has been changed is like the clearest line of delineation could not be more with you all right TC your fan base is getting restless they want you to to throw out a real you know booing from the back tra it up for
That I think you lost your that was gonna be that was a f that was a that was a future year pick plus uh plus some salary cap considerations an expiring contract uh and I’m using my bird rights as well I’m gonna go you know what I was I was gonna
Go with with you know course setup and stuff but we’re not we’re not going that direction Mal hyper thought we were going to do that we’re going to go with something that DJ has come up with mule buyout so listen we’ll take a guy David
Skins don’t want to [ __ ] [ __ ] on him or uh you know Zack Johnson even right of like hey like all right Zach Johnson like let’s just clarify who has their PGA Tour card who doesn’t and at some point like all right like Zack Johnson cool like you’ve been very well
Compensated for the cuts that you’ve made and you’re you know like the reason that you have this exemption is because of you’ve made more money than anybody except for the top 30 guys in the history of the PGA Tour but that is basically just it’s not adjusted for
Inflation just means the top 30 most lucrative players of the last 15 20 years basically but let’s let’s let’s trim it down let’s get it back to all right if you’re going to be a you know competitive hey this is mer this is a meritocracy and this is Doggy Dog then
You know what like relegation should means cool you get relegated you got to play your way back in right uh let’s clean up the sponsor exemptions let’s clean up you know there shouldn’t be there’s there’s what 30 guys coming off the corn fairy tour this year where half
Of them can’t get into [ __ ] events even it’s like all right there’s too many there’s too many things and like you know what part of the thing to get so to to reduce the fat to to trim the herd to call the herd is mule buyouts
Where DJ was like you know what David Skin’s cool like you we will give you $950,000 if you just just walk away you can go play the the events that s said that don’t matter but we’re good on the do matter unless you unless you qualify
Your way in and you’re one of the top 80 you don’t see like Kendrick Perkins still getting to play NBA games TC or like Tracy McGrady rolling balls out there it’s like it’s like all right like those guys are out of the league when they’re out of the league yeah T-Mac you
Made you made $400 million playing basketball you get roster this year because you made so much playing basketball like get the [ __ ] out it’s it’s outrageous all right milver loves this pick well done there I look I can’t believe this is still on the board but I’m going to go ahead and
Throw it out there I’m going to take a lot of this SGS money maybe some of the yaser money don’t know yet whether how we feel about this and I am going to buy the Ryder Cup and the PGA of America I am going to make that part of whatever
The product is going forward now we control one of the majors uh we know the stakes are are really big uh we know exactly that we are part of the conversation of History uh and we can decide like what rder Cup venue it’s going to go to and all that
Stuff we are are going to be part of that future I I would actually like to write a think piece for the athletic about why you owning that property is [ __ ] horrible for the league because I’m very worried that that’s going to happen that exact scenario is like with
All this money they’re going to start buying up the things that do matter and the things that we do really well a licensing deal and bring it yeah this is like giv Aaron Rogers a big contract late in his career like there’s some risks involved but uh maybe you know I
Don’t know how much I love the unity of that of that idea I think I just rather the guys make less money well I’d say that like if we can get there with here’s how we’re going to make you guys a shitload more money and it’s through a
Bunch of this other stuff that isn’t straight commercial loads and the over here is going to be this but like in exchange for this we have to make this we have to take commercials out and make this product more entertaining by doing all these other things like it’s going
To be a little bit more indirect way but your equity this thing is going to grow when we buy up peble Beach all this stuff all of this but here’s what you have to do you have to dance for us in professional golf that’s best case scenario do I trust the people involved
To nail all that stuff absolutely [ __ ] not all right do we want to go one more round to round or do we have listen yeah I think this should be like the old NBA draft where we’re going like 25 rounds even if you have to hop off
KBB I think we we we keep going like I’m like Mel Kyper we’re not even getting started until we get into like the f I think there might need to be a part two maybe we need to revisit this on the the Sunday pod uh because I know like but d
I I’ll give you one more spin around if you want to go around yeah I’ve only got one more serious suggestion and then we can devolve into all kinds of other [ __ ] uh piss mule buyouts is off I thought I could get that in round five but the uh
I think I would take some of that SGS money SG is that what it is SGS SS SS SS I was like wait no that’s sh I screwed it up uh I would uh I would take some of that money and I would invest heavily in supplementary programming and I think a
Lot of what you were saying Tron is like why are we spending so much money on broadcasting all of these events exactly the same and trying to make every Thursday through Sunday look exactly the same when the events are wildly different from each other I think a lot
Of that spend could be around making like okay I’m not going to watch Thursday of the V bar spoiler alert it’s not going to happen no offense to the Val bar no offense to whoever takes the lead it’s just it’s not going to happen
What I would like to watch is who like a player talking me through every shot of their round and breaking down how they play inisbrook and making me smarter about inisbrook for when I do watch on Sunday so whatever that means like figure out a better way to like make me
A more engaged smarter golf fan that is not just like beating me over the head with the same 72 hole GRL eat this every day until you die type of product well listen right now leading the Val bar is Adam svensson and Brendan Todd so are
You sure you want rather have I thought it was Wednesday I didn’t even realize it was Thursday and that the tournament was even going on so that’s you know my the defense rests on that one all right Su um I I can’t believe this is still available I’m guessing I just was
Checking Twitter and I just saw that uh this draft pick uh some images were circulating of this draft pick hitting a bong uh High playing High that’s why he’s falling down the draft board but uh technology uh changes of making the golf ball not fly as far one
Uh driver head smaller and and changing the scale in the works and they’re they’re gonna fight it instead of saying hey this this actually makes of all products that need this of all you know tournaments that needed it’s PGA Tour events um it’s going to help you build
Your stars a lot better it really really will I would GNA say like a a tournament that has like pmen drivers P like blade clubs like I would be all like I don’t know if that’s a full draft pick or if it’s part of this but like if give me
One of those a year [ __ ] it let’s do it that might be an undrafted free agent might be it’s true T do you have a clip to empty I I do want to I we don’t need a ex you know a big expounding on each
One but I I would love to hear some some others that were on your board yeah I would say um buy data golf that’s a good way I think you know just bring that into the ecosystem have like a why is there not like a like Kyle Porter talks
About this all the time like why is there not like a golf reference.com like can we like we like get a back-end database that [ __ ] works um I would say uh you know again going back to the course setup stuff like there’s no reason that like like set a good example
There’s no reason why like saw grass needs to like you need to dump billions of gallons of water on that place to make it look a little bit Greener like that’s setting a really shitty example for and like the best playing surface right now is that semi- dormant you know
Bermuda that they could make really strong they could overseed parts of it or whatever and have some contrast out there that would be one of them obviously connecting the uh the in coastal out there you want a banger of an atmosphere I would say you know have
Like hosting a women’s event out there hosting an LPGA Tour event or hosting a you know fix the President’s Cup like it sucks it’s like all right cool like so the us is going to play the best players from the world but outside of Europe and the and
Theuk and then and then we’re going to go to Royal Montreal to play it and you know it’s like like a perfect example of like venues mattering right like Royal Melbourne like when they went there cool like and when you separate out all right like if if you know the President’s Cup
Doesn’t have a a main sponsor right it’s if more people are watching that then it it kind of you know pays for itself there I got all sorts of stuff of just you know I think getting getting like you know certain events cool get get like instant replay in the booth like
You know know what we’re going to go to the we’re going to go to the uh Tony zeroi in the booth here and you know talk through this they’ve kind of already done it with dece bobic a little bit but let’s take that to the next level let’s
Have back to the players from last week let’s have like like let’s treat it seriously to where it’s not like Rory and Victor arguing about where a ball crossed let’s have a let’s have a camera in certain spots if you know that that’s going to be an issue certain weeks on
Certain holes it might be good for Content though I gotta say AR yeah I think some of it is like hey they’ they’ve listened on some of the social stuff they did a couple funny memes last week or hey like why can’t I watch a cut up of of dudes rounds you
Know similar to what you were saying with MLB s you know where like hey just you guys can put it out and sell advertising against it but give me a three minute summary of all the shots that that so and so hit today you know why can’t like they have an app that’s
Good as the Master’s app obviously it’s a little different but like poor some real resources basically go to IBM and be like how do we get the best possible version of what we can do on a week toe basis with this technology that you guys have because everybody loves it on the
Day that you can download the Masters app nobody’s like oh yeah the PJ tour is updating their app it’s so sick which some of that is just like government’s not like sexy type stuff I think but the thing about the app for me is like it I
Think it has gotten a little better with the the newest edition of it is like it just never seems like it always seems like they’re trying to like make me like what I what they like like rather than like me using the app the way that I
Would want to use it and the easiest example is just like hey I have I am a I’m in a golf pool I would love to know what Victor hin did at valbar last year and that like finding that is like so [ __ ] difficult I mean we’ve talked
About it a bunch mik you know miking up players or having hey if you’re in the if you’re in the final four groups on Sunday you’re getting miked up no questions asked or do a range walk have somebody out there like you know doing doing hey you know what what are you
Working on da you you got it you know all right if you’re going to be a dick to the guy that’s going to be on TV too like you don’t have to participate but such a good idea that would be phenomenal little tidbits of just like
What are you what are you working on would be yeah have Smiley do it he’s friends with all the guys like I mean it doesn’t have to be like Walter kronite [ __ ] journalism it can just be like hey like what’ you eat for breakfast this morning oh man I didn’t sleep well
Last night my kid woke up hbling news today made up double bogey on six we go now to Smiley Kaufman for the Inside Story even making it easier to watch historical stuff of like you know what like all right you want like you’re telling us that you
Have Legacy not leverage all this stuff all right cool like I don’t care if it was a different title sponsor start playing stuff on Golf Channel again it’s not just like all right here’s the 2021 uh Heritage no like show us like the 1987 Heritage and you know it may have been
MCI or whoever was sponsoring it but you know what so be it like you’re you’re you’re solidifying your own tournaments and your own brand and your own legacy and history and making this tournament mean something and adding additional context there hell yeah is like Mystery Science Theater thing of two players
Like Max and JT sitting watching the 87 Memorial and like just giving me their thoughts for an hour like the last hour of the memorial they did good stuff around um the old players at TP at sass country Club they had the Collegiate players out there watching that when the
Year the wind blew forever and like getting their reactions and stuff to a bunch of old highlights and Watson and stuff playing that I was like dude more of that please like that is and sounds of the game that’s my that that’s another late round value pick of like
Just copy straight up the NFL mik up a few players edit it down into a 10 minute video Bunch like with five or six different dudes you I’ve seen the team you got you guys have a massive team there you could you could do that like you could absolutely do that and like
The more they do that stuff the more credibility that they gain with both the players and the fans and people start watching it a little bit more and and quit quit inundating us with just like cut out some of the Clutter from some of these corporate sponsorships as well
Like don’t don’t treat us like we’re stupid Chase dollars not not dimes and nickels and pennies guys this has been super cathartic I think we’ve solved all the problems for the PJ to our Enterprises we we’re ready to grow the game of golf indefinitely thank you for uh for
Indulging me and for holding this draft I feel like this draft might have to become a a frequent uh yeah that feels like part one yeah I think that draft board can change frequently I think the whole episode of of a draft feels like it’s in the
Future hell yeah well all right well uh I know you guys are probably often scholing when people are hearing this but I’ll be a man in the ship at home again and uh thank you again to everybody who uh Tunes in and listens to us you know uh critique the product but
Also try to improve the product we figure out what the freck the product is going forward thank you everyone cheers crack on
31 Comments
Soly talks about the lack of star making with the current equipment but I don’t think he’s seen the battle for 12th place between Cleeks, Iron Heads, and HyFlyers. Stars in the making there…
One issue with any of the "super league" proposals is they don't have a good plan for replenishment. Athletes age, they go through slumps, they just lose their mojo. How do you promote someone who is up and coming or just on a medium heater to replace a "name" who no longer has game? If you can't the super league just becomes the Over the Hill Tour.
More podcasts like this. What a phenomenal discussion to thoughtfully critique and constructively determine the optimal direction of this stupid sport we all love.
Kinda good on seeing Seminole for a while.
Already working on the PGA Tour Schedule with relegation to the TPC Tour!
fantastic product tonight, guys 🥃
amazing show, some wonderful info that a lot of avid fans probably don’t know (including me) cheers boys!
I switched to the video version because I just didn’t get TC’s hair joke. He’s bald!?!
Mullen Football hat is a hard flex. High water mark for Nebraska Class D-2 high school football.
The big question is how you make it matter to the fan. The majors matter. The Ryder Cup matters in a way that even the majors must envy. Watching players obliterate ‘easy’ courses with freeways in the background or a bunch of shit-faced blow-hards throwing crap onto the greens? I’m sorry – I’m watching anything else…
The "it just will" argument on equipment changes is one of the worst that gets repeated
Imagine, interweaving YouTube/digital content into a broadcast to make it more engaging and entertaining. Just imagine. 🤯🫠
Great show. I feel like we are missing it. What is compelling is the best vs the best. That’s a quality product. No watered down fields at Mediocre venues. Break down why The Players is great. Great venue, best vs the best, solid TV product
Great discussion, as always. Do we know if the video has made it to Jay's desk?
Shot clock sponsored by Rolex. If you don’t get the shot off in 60 seconds you get penalized the cost of a Rolex day date and that money goes to the title sponsor charity that week.
Match play title throughout the year for dudes to challenge the champ for the belt
Did you guys get these great ideas from LIV or do you not realize LIV already does all of this because you don’t watch it? 😂
The LIV guys don't want to come back tho. Rahm and maybe Bryson care. It's actually too much golf for the rest of them.
As a US based fan the world tour version of the PGA is worst case scenario. Don't want to watch Asian/Australian events at night or Euro events in the morning. One time a year with the open is enough for me.
They should recognize there is a Super Golf League at the top of the pyramid featuring the individual stroke play championship. They should then strive to create additional top of the pyramid events, not merely just hoping The RSM Classic retains its relevance.
That answer is a Team Golf Super League, as well as an awesome International Style events (whether that’s the Ryder Cup and/or Pres Cup). And maybe you can stretch and create a compelling Second Division League too.
Super Golf League Individual Championship runs 12 events from February through July. Super Golf Team League runs 12 events from February through July. 24 regular season events over 6 months.
August is about the Championships for each competition, plus maybe the pro/rel. September is big International Event SZN.
And then disappear from October thru January
Sounds like NLU gang recommended most elements that LIV has already employed.
Birdies may be cool, but holes where you can make any score are mega-cool. The water holes at Augusta and Sawgrass are always the best drama. Not entirely sure how you do it in this era, but set up courses so the brain is more important. The all-timers like Nicklaus, Woods and Hogan were the guys who thought their way around the course.
They need to stop with the birdie fests there is no drama. You need bunched fields where guys move up and down. A 65 should Rocket you up the leaderboard but you shouldn't be able to shoot that every day. 10-15 is the sweet spot. Obviously, I don't think they should do crazy manipulation to get those scores that is just what they should shoot for given normal weather. Plus throw in a few around par for us freaks like myself and big randy.
Of course Soly doesn’t want to see a LIV vs PGAT tournament.
10/10 Sting reference
TC's flop wall is the equivalent of F1 bosses wanting to add sprinklers to tracks to add excitement.
Great discussion guys! I'm not really sure what category of fan I would be put in, enjoy playing golf, DFS and bet every week…but I can't stand watching golf on TV. I will catch the clips on X and maybe for the Masters I might throw it on in the background while I'm doing something else for an hour but I never just sit and actually watch. I don't think there is a good answer that would boost the product for both the avid golf fans and casual sports fans. Doing something like a Redzone show starting when the final groups hit about the 14th or 16th hole on Sundays (that way maybe by the end of the quick show you could also include the winner) where you get to recap everything that has happened, big shots, funny reactions, a "ONE OF US" segment where you show them hitting trees snapping/throwing clubs, Spieth's missed 2 foot putts and major story lines where you can quickly explain how a birdie on 17 landed a guy inside the top 20 and got him into the elevated events. Something like that might be something that would be more interesting to sports fans, but it wouldn't be something that they would likely be looking for. You'd probably have to put it on ESPN+ with no set time because of the timing of the rounds. Not so sure this would be for the avid fans who in my mind love sitting back and watching the drama unfold live.
Side question – what percent of people who golf actually pay attention to Tour level golf? My father in law is in the prime PGAT demographic but can maybe name 5 guys on tour, and the same with his golfing buddies who play 1-3 times a week. I see the same thing with pro bass fishing where fishing in general has exploded in popularity based on the number of licenses sold but the interest and ratings on the tournament broadcasts haven't come close to the same kind of increase.
THE FLOP WALLLL
Thank you TC for mentioning sustainability. Seeing all that over seed at Sawgrass was cringy. Be a role model, PGA TOUR, not stuck in the 1980s.
Great idea for a topical podcast! Wish you all had microphone for everyone and not just TC. Geeze, was his talk time 80 or 86% of the podcast?
Pretty simple…..before Tiger, golf sucked on TV, during Tiger's reign, golf was great on TV, after Tiger, golf sucks on TV. Need the next superstar to emerge.