Friend of the show and Detroit News Reporter Tony Paul joins Justin Spiro for his record-setting seventh appearance to preview the 2024 season for the Detroit Tigers, recap the Oakland Golden Grizzlies’ remarkable upset vs. Kentucky in the NCAA Tournament, discuss whether Trey Townsend could transfer to Michigan State, and more!

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Spiro Avenue is a Live Digital Sports Network based in Detroit created and hosted by Justin Spiro. It features two shows:

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Oh welcome back to the SP Avenue show you know hope does spring Eternal it’s that time of year we’re all excited about the Detroit TI season certainly I am just no matter how good they are I always care but there seems to be sort of these divided camps the there’s

Divergent pass with the fan base here in Detroit I I think I’m more on one side than the other color you shocked that I’m a little bit more cynical I want to get into this though first of all let’s just look at the fan uh fan graphs projected standings Ben for the AL

Central not a great picture they seem to agree with the masses it’s kind of a three man race up top Kansas City trailing a little behind but Fang grass has the Tigers 79 wins this year so comfortably out of the playoffs but within Arms Reach right okay next one

Ben let’s take a look at this where’s the money going with this team’s payroll this team’s payroll is at $95 million and look at the top of the list here look at the players that constitute this $95 million you have obviously jav bayas at the top 25 million flarity ra a five

Last year in second Ma I think is actually solid Cana solid Cabrera everyone thinks Cabrera is off the books no he’s on the hook for $8 million this year the tigers are you look at the picture it’s not that pretty so you start with them at 95 million which by

The way Ben we got that graphic in here next too where does that rank against the average 57.3 million doll below the MLB average you have a $95 million payroll which is I mean an appalling number and we just gave you the breakdown on the prior

Slide there I it’s not only is it a piss poor payroll but the guys that are constituting that payroll are either jav bayas who’s dead and Miguel Cabrera who’s retired those two alone Ben throw that up we got that one in the rotation look at look at this

34.7% of that already almost 60 million below average payroll is going to jav bayas and Miguel Cabrera’s $8 million buyout so I understand the optimism but if you do believe in the analytics the analytics don’t paint the Tigers favorably in terms of projections it doesn’t look all that

Pretty I think it’s fair to ask uh what are they doing in 2024 because even if you believe the cynical View and you’re in the Fang grass perspective they’re going to finish five back of the division and they’re not spending anything I would argue it’s unacceptable

In year eight of a rebuild and I don’t care that they replace the gym the ownership same family I’m bringing in the legend Tony Paul who by the way I was told by Ben this is your record’s seventh appearance now this you you broke the tie with Chris calani so

Welcome back to you and congratulations on that honor thank you that’s why I showed up so just to take this title I listened to your podcast Detroit News Tigers podcast Chris MOSI today and I believe you recorded it today mhm you guys I listen to it informative a lot of

Good stuff about the you know who’s playing well in spring training and all that but you’re way more optimistic than I am and both you guys are where am I wrong where is Fang graphs wrong are you pleased with where they’re at and the investment like is the team back them

Enough kind of take me through where you’re at with it well I mean Fang grabs is great and the analytics are great um they I mean that that’s not going to be what it is at the end of the year I mean we all know that it’s you know they

Nailed it last year they within like a game with all of the teams well with the Tigers well there you go I mean it’s yeah look I have some optimism on two levels and I’ll start by saying that the payroll thing bothers me I’m not going

To give a pass on that I mean they’re 100 they’re under $100 million we just saw before we went on the air tonight that the Arizona Diamondbacks just signed Jordan Montgomery for $25 million for one year any of the 30 te you 30 teams could have done that including the

Tigers the Diamondbacks have a payroll of $175 million and the Tigers you know um arguably have more vibrant Sports Market in Detroit um under a 100 so I’m not going to give him a pass on that I don’t like that but um it’s a lousy division that is there for the taking

You can put the twins up top I don’t like a whole lot about the twins I don’t think they did I don’t think any of the teams in the division this year really went crazy in the offseason if you look at it they didn’t I don’t really like

The twins as some team that’s going to you know run off three or four Central titles in a row they got the Guardians up there I don’t really like them all that much um the Royals have a long way to go to make up from all the losses

They had and the white socks are a complete debacle so you start with the division and I think that it’s there for the taking start with that um oh sorry go ahe no and then um as I mentioned on the podcast today if you look at all the

Rotations everyone in the central I like the Tiger is the best on paper I know you could say that about flarity I think that there’s definite potential for a a rebound season from him uh from everything they’re saying down in Lakeland from what everyone’s seeing

Kent MAA I think is a good presence here I think Terk scoo is an ace I think Casey m is looking really really good and uh so I and I mean I mean it’s a rotation that’s decent enough that Matt Manning didn’t make it I mean I you know

So I like that um off offense is a concern it’s a big concern but in this Division I I think it’s there for the taking they they took every series season series in the central last year and I think they’re a better team even though they didn’t go crazy with the

Payroll Ben can you throw that breakdown of the backup with was it the top 10 guys on the payroll or whatever it is when you get a chance because here’s part of my issue and we know there’s young guys not making that much torlon and green the best players aren’t on

That list that’s true but like when you break this down bayz is a guy that everyone was hoping he’d opt out or just would retire or something well he was never going to op I agree but we were hoping for miracles so but bottom line is they don’t want him there Jack

Flare’s here on a one-year deal May’s 36 on a 2-year deal can’s on a one-year deal Cabrera’s retired chaffin’s on a one-year deal Carson Kelly I think’s a one-year deal Shelby Miller’s a one-year deal it it’s a bunch of retired guys one-year deal guys and Ma is ma is the

Only multi-year guy on there other than Bas who no one wants here point being what what is the core of this team because you can say the young guys that’s fine the payroll is what it’s going to be 50 million in a year I don’t

Like it seems like a a bunch of stop gaps is that not a fair criticism well it’s reinforcements I think I think and in a lot of ways it is stop gaps from guys that they aren’t convinced or ready to come up right now and they they think

That they will be either later in this season or next season uh but again you look at that list and their best players aren’t on there I mean it’s yeah you can look at that and hobby bayas contract’s a disaster I like I like the signing I

Hate the signing now I mean I was wrong it’s been a disaster and everyone says oh you know he’s changed his approach and he’s doing this and he’s doing that I don’t buy that he’s going to be an impact player for this team um you know

It’s a disaster is what it is they got four years left on that deal they’re not cutting them today with $98 million left it is what it is but you look at that list there’s no Spencer Tolson there’s no Riley green there’s no Carrie Carpenter there’s no Colt Keith there’s

No Jake Rogers I mean um there’s no Casey M uh there’s no Tariq scoel I mean it’s their best players AR on there yet because it’s a young core but um you know they get some veteran guys in there on the one-year deals I think that I

Think flarity will help I think Ma will help um I think that uh there’s some you chaen I think helps the bullpen Shelby Miller I think helps the bullpen so um you know I think there are stop gaps for next year and if you look around the

Keith laws of the world or the Kylie MCD of the world with the prospects they like the Tiger’s farm system and because the Tiger’s farm system is as deep as it’s probably been in decades um according to these guys um you know that’s why you’re seeing the

Stop gaps it was it 2019 Tigers I think at the number two pay uh number two uh farm system I mean I me I think they were number two in all baseball and I think it was 2019 I’m positive they were second like give or take a year in there

I I look I understand the point but that my point is not to say oh look at the best guys on the team we all know those guys aren’t on there but I couldn’t you make the argument that look your payrolls so bad and the payroll that it

That’s accounted for there is a bunch of bad players or retired guys or onee stop Gap guys I’m not defending the payroll I’m making the argument though they have no excuse not to have spent more and it going forward and we’ll get into more kind of season preview stuff but like

Juano is a free agent this upcoming offseason what excuse do they have not to offer him $45 million a year 10450 because that’s not their philosophy and I agree with you well I mean I don’t know what you want me to say you can roll your eyes at what I’m

Saying I’m I’m not you them it’s at them I mean they could you know I mean they weren’t going to sign CH oani and they weren’t they’re not going to sign ju SoDo I mean it is what it is it’s just not what they’re going to do apparently

We’ve learned this what where okay so they’re they’re ranking I mean one list has a 22 one is in a 23 they’re around 23rd payroll year they’re yep and they are as we demonstrated almost 60 million blow average bow average third with most of the central too it’s a joke but the

Problem is it’s not in a vacuum they’ve been bottom third even with the cber extension for years the last what seven or eight year run we did it on the show at one point I think it’s seven years in a row where they’ve had a bottom like 12 payroll

They’ve been below League average at at some point like I’m willing to okay we’re rebuilding we’re going to have a low payroll for five years I’m patient I’ve been patient in my opinion what is the plan here because you’re saying that’s not their philosophy well well I

Mean they’ve proven it I mean it’s just not what Chris illich is going to do shouldn’t we be mad about that yes yes I mean all right what do you want me to say I mean uh they shouldn’t have a bottom third payroll I mean it’s a you

Know it’s a big enough market it’s a storied franchise it’s a team that you know a decade ago was coming off it’s you know a great sustained stretch of of baseball um no it shouldn’t be um I’m not saying you need to go spend the 20030 million or 20 million that Mike

Illich did I don’t think that that’s you know that’s fine if you want to run it by w a business it’s okay that you can run a business like a business if you want to make money and that is the goal that’s fine Mike ill didn’t care about

Making money he wanted to win a World Series and he would spend until the day he died to do it that’s what he did um and fell up and fell short Chris isn’t going to do that um you know you can go with the bottom line but you can make

Money by spending more than $95 million with this with this franchise uh with the TB money and baseball um you know there’s there’s plenty of money to go around to spend more than that in the market of Detroit especially when you know that a good product on the field at

Ker Park is going to make this town Go Bananas as it did for eight years or whatever the stretch was so no they should be spending you I’m not saying you have to go crazy and you know they’re not going to be the you know in the they weren’t in the atani market

They’re not going to be in the SoDo Market but when you look my problem with this offseason was when you look at the team and the division and you look at what they did in the they they they took the season series from every team in the division last year that means something

I mean I think that means there a decent ball club that should contend in this Division and when it’s there for the taking and it’s right there for the taking I think you have to do more than just a $95 million payroll when they especially with this offseason Market

That was so bad for free agents especially toward the end I mean again Jordan Montgomery $25 million but you look JD Martinez $12 million of the Mets JD Martinez could have come here hit 30 home runs with 80 RBI you can almost pencil that in he’s a beloved figure

Here he loved it here um and that would have helped their offense which was third worst in baseball last year as much progress as they made their offense was not good um even with the strides of Tolson and the strides of you know green and what you saw from Parker Meadows um

You know you had Mark Hannah okay well JD Martinez is a sure thing for those numbers and 12 million bucks he probably could have done that you could have maybe taken a look at Chapman for 30 don’t really have a third base Gio your your shella is you know not going to be

The guy you know that’s going to put you over the top offensively at third base so there were options to where you didn’t have to blow the bank to upgrade the offense uh and they chose not to do it and Scott Harris can talk about the process and that’s fine he is new

Whatever um I just think that when the division’s that close and Chris and I debated this on podcast today which you can check out detroitnews.com um but we debated it and you know Chris said well the the object is not just to win the Central and I don’t agree with that

Because I don’t think you you can’t do anything until you you know win the Central and get into the playoffs you can win a wild card but the wild card’s not going out of the central we all know that um unless you know some team has a

A wildly unexpected season but you get into the playoffs I mean you know Diamondbacks made a run last year you you never know I mean baseball’s not a sport where there are no upsets in the playoffs so you get in and you never know yeah I mean then you mentioned the

Diamond Backs that you threw the dime backs at him and he said oh those are all young guys they’re not all young pay 17 million Christian Walker is like with 31 32 last year katel Marte like 293 last year I mean they’re not all young guys baseball is a sport where you get

It’s it’s hockey in a lot of ways too I mean you get in and you have a chance if you get in and um and when it’s that close spending another you know they say all right we don’t want to sign JD because we don’t want to block and we

Don’t want to have a full-time DH and whatever you’re not signing JD for 10 years you know you’re not blocking someone for the rest of their career and have to trade somebody you’re looking at your offense that’s the issue with this team they made progress last year their

Pitching stab even with losing Eduardo Rodriguez like the rotation I honestly believe is better and so you look at the offense could be better and uh one piece could maybe be the difference I mean I think JD Martinez healthy might have been the difference um to win this

Division so I mean you mentioned Chapman and JD they they’re clearing $30 million on the on the button this year they could have signed those deals they’d be 27 3 million blow League average still I that’s why I said you don’t I don’t you didn’t have the blow the bank um I I

Just thought there were options that you know you could take you could have gone into spring training looked at your team said all right we’re okay uh but if we just add a little piece here and you know I’m saying only a little piece with JD because he only got $12 million from

The Mets um you know and and then JD’s on the record of saying you know that he didn’t want to go to San Francisco because the ballpark and he it’s not good hitters park especially if you go the other way like he does and so he

Feared that he might have a bad year and then his career would be over well where does he know he can hit he knows he can hit in Detroit you know you got to believe JD would have been interested and I just I I felt like for 12 million

Bucks I what is that you know to upgrade your offense that significantly and maybe put off Justin Henry Malloy for a year or you know I I think it’d be okay and so you know little element of the the Verlander Vibes too when we were advocating for that it’s we think they

Can still play it’s most important but also a little carrot to throw the fans too I mean not a primary thing I care about but it’s not nothing it’s not nothing it would be a little bit of sign of Goodwill toward the fan base here’s a

Guy that is beloved here I mean people still get I mean I watch that clip against Chris S and I still get chills off that home run I mean it was the most just unbelievable scene um I believe you know uh Chris and I debated this on the

Podcast I believe JD were to come here here um and the the Tigers thought differently they are they are laser focused on not blocking anybody and to me if that’s if this is a guy who can post 30 and 80 or 90 RBI um I mean that

Could get you in the playoffs in this division here here’s the problem with the blocking argument particularly in his case maybe less with Chapman on a one-year deal if your argument is I’m going to block somebody if I sign this guy you better win 90 plus I don’t want

To hear it I mean right cuz one your deal is the key for me I don’t think how much are you blocking someone on a short-term deal like that especially someone who can maybe put you over the edge in a terrible Division I I didn’t get it I mean I’m on Wojo’s side

Here wjo a few weeks ago advocating for it um but uh for whatever reason I mean they’re laser focused on this you know um you know not you know getting these young guys the opportunity and that’s fine but it’s there for the taking like it’s not like the ’90s or even when the

Tigers were winning the central in the 200 you know 6 when they didn’t win it but you know when they won it from 20113 I mean it was a good division then it’s not a good division now it’s it’s the worst in baseball by a mile and uh this

Team on paper is better than last year’s team um with the best rotation of the division and I just don’t know how you don’t invest a little bit too it seems like the backbone of your argument is it’s mostly rooted in the division sucks that’s a big part of it I’m not disp

Like if the Twins were projected to win 97 games I mean that’s different this team isn’t going to sniff that I get it but do you are you awarding them like let’s look at’s I’ll phrase it this way do you like what they’re doing do you

Buy in take the divisions out of it or is this simply a they might be the you know the best bad team like because that’s that’s a different argument where I’m GNA back door in and hey you never know we have a shot or on a fundamental principal baseball level I like what

They’re doing with their roster construction and their long-term strategy in view where are you with that I like I mean I like almost all of the young guys projected to make an impact so I like and by the way a lot of those young guys come from the AIL era so you

Know I mean it’s not all Scott Harris is you know doing but I mean I mean I like Riley green I like Spencer tkls and I think the Colt Keith extension is brilliant I mean I think it’s finally it’s finally an executive with the Tigers you know playing a little you

Know a little chess instead of Checkers you know um you I’ve talked to a couple of people even Chris and I argued this well what if heuse a bus well if heuse a bus it cost you $28 million which is one year of hobby buyas basically and if

He’s not a bus you save tens of millions of dollars on the back end so I like that deal Casey m i I think has a good chance to make have a breakthrough this year Jackson job the reports on him are through the roof we might see him this

Summer um but I like a lot of their young the young projections Parker Meadows is going to be an electric center fielder and I mean so good that Riley Green’s a pretty good center fielder and he’s not going to be playing center field um so you get better

Defense out there which is good for them but um yeah so I like I like all of the young stuff that they’re doing I think there’s definitely a plan there but again um and you know and who knows maybe they’ll surprise us next offseason I thought maybe they might this

Offseason but you know these teams are built you know championship teams are best built from within but then you supplement um and I I’m waiting for the Tigers to supplement we’ve argued about this before the 2006 Tigers were built over a series of three off Seasons By free agent signings uh significant ones

Um and I I don’t see the supplement coming um to to be to be alongside these young guys at this time and I I just don’t know that You’ do that all in one offseason so I’m I’m not exactly on board with that I’m not on board with a

Lot of stuff and I actually I pretty much agree with you I don’t think they’re going to stink I think it rotation looks pretty I honestly think they’re a slightly above average team they they can’t hit Riley green has to be healthy I don’t know why I’m

Supposed to like Pence him in for f that b there’s no evidence he can stay healthy if he’s healthy somehow and there’s another thing too it’s like you got the health issue with Riley green when he’s healthy he’s really good yeah but there’s another reason why why not

Bring in JD you know I mean you get you know you get reinforcement there in case something goes bad I mean I I just think I I don’t know it just bothers me when you’re that close and I think they are that close to contending because that no

One’s looking at the Twins and saying oh no one’s going to beat the twins I mean look at their no I mean they I mean okay they sign Carlos Santana congrats I mean no one’s looking at them going we can’t beat the twins so we’re that close I

Mean for 12 million bucks I mean he probably would have come here JD probably would have come here for Less I mean honestly and uh I I don’t get yeah I mean and the argument with the division being so shitty all the more reason to spend it’s it’s so getable

Like why Why Try to skate by and and sneak in and get it I I don’t like anything about the strategy Mike and it’s Ro and it’s roote when they don’t do things like that and look I like the ma signing and again the ma signing is

More of a long-term thing I mean they’ve been very open about you know one of the reasons they signed him was that they could get in the Japanese market so you know maybe they could build on that in the future because they haven’t been in the Japanese Market ever since you know

Hi Nomo and M back in the early 2000s so but I like that signing I I think the flarity thing is a lowrisk high reward type thing one year um so I like some of the things they did but um I just think he could have done more I mean I’ve been

Hearing about these pipelines they’re building in the Dominican and they never that ever ends up materializing but whatever you got you got a new guy that’s that’s that’s you know you can say that in perpetuity did you think alab was going to be the guy that was going to build the international market

For the Tigers he told me he was but did you think that no I think that I I think I think more people believe that Scott Harris has a little bit more infrastructure in place and a little bit more of a vision a vision on that okay

When the guy cannot get humiliated at the trade deadline that was not good I mean that was not good can we not assign this guy I’m not saying chess player status yet I mean the C Keith I think the col Keith signing was a sign

No I like I like that for the same reason you laid out valenie talked about the Tigers this week he’s he’s not pleased with a lot of stuff they’re doing we’ve we’ll see a line on this I want to play a clip of him bet if you can run venny please for

Us Matt Chapman was three at 54 JD was one at 12 I I don’t understand in this town how there’s no thirst or hunger or desire to ask for more where they could still have a payroll below League they could still be doing it on the cheap but while building for the future

You can make you can win the division and yet there’s look right here because all people in this town care about is getting bombed off three foot daies ripping zins and maybe going on the ferris wheel so we’ve addressed a lot of the Friday I think the ferris wheel still

Works oh is that busted too or they replace the monitors basically what we we’ve talked about I mean that’s I think we’re aligned well on that on that part I want that part at the end though about the he’s frustrated with the fan base that’s what I want to ask you about I

Think that I would say that I’m not going to totally agree with that because tiger fans I think they act with their wallets I mean they they don’t show up when the team’s not good I mean they’re not they’re not sitting there you know selling out coer Park when the team’s

Not good I mean attendance is terrible so um you know maybe they’re not pounding the pavement you know pounding their fists um but uh I I think they make their their displeasure known by not going to the park do you do you feel the Tigers fan base like is on a more

Positive side now more negative more cynical the vibe seems more leaning towards positive I feel like I don’t know I mean I I mean it’s it’s they’ve well here’s the thing they’ve they’ve lost a part of their fan base okay it’s been 10 years since they made the playoffs you remember you’re younger

Than me but from 80 from 88 to 2005 that the Tigers lost an entire generation of fans an entire generation that didn’t know anything about the team didn’t care because they were so bad they got them back but now it’s been 10 years again where you’ve been they’ve

Had one winning season in 10 years since they last made the playoffs they’ve lost those fans so I think that’s why it maybe doesn’t seem as passionate because I think they lost you when the tigers are good they’ve got they’ve got them and there’s obviously a lot of passion but now there’s been

Total apathy and that and I made the argument you know before where if the Tigers like last year we talked about the Tigers weren’t going to contend but if you’re going to suck at least be interesting right you know being interesting and terrible is better than being apathetic with your fans because

If you if the fans are apathetic you’re done you’ve lost them completely so um you know that was my thing last year be interesting and I think they were to you know an extent I think people were interested in them um but it has been 10 years since they made the playoffs so

They’ve lost a lot of fans that they’re going to have to win back so I think that that’s why you’re not hearing maybe the you know the pounding of the fists and the you know the pitchforks is because I think that they’ve lost some of those fans uh and it shows at the

Ballpark I mean they just they don’t show up but now they’re going to show up because there’s new TVs at the Ballpark yeah that’s that’s the key I mean you had them on your podcast in 87 wins right I did have 87 now now that came

Off the top of my head and maybe it was a little ambitious I think they’ll be over 500 how about I think they’re going to be over 500 if they if they’re in that I think what we say Fang gr hit them at 79 if they if they hit that 79

Or worse it’s tough to say they’ve been just B battering their fan base over the heads for years at Point as you laid out but at the same time I I think it’s going to be difficult to recover from Another Bad Year I just feel like the

Fan base is in a point where they’re they’re optimistic for the first time in the last several years like real optimism not the March [Β __Β ] there was that optimism a few years ago though three four years ago where they fell on their face completely met cost of V’s

Job there was there was even if you remember back there was optimism no no I agree I’m not saying it’s been 10 years since it was I think this is the first time in the last three years that I can recall people being generally positive because they see pieces that are part of

The Future Okay I I think that’s a big reason when you see Spencer Tolson yeah you can still nitpick about a lot of things with his game but he did show progress last year Riley Green’s a good player kry Carpenter is a good player you like you know the idea of Keith Colt

Keith you like the idea of Casey M you like Jackson Joe you can see these pieces I don’t think you I think it was a little bit of a mirage a few years ago I don’t think you saw those was pieces that were supposed to be part at least

That many pieces that were supposed to be part of the future so I think fans can see the puzzle coming together um I think that there’s a lot of fans out there that would like it to come together quicker and I think it could have yeah I agree and I I don’t think

The optimism is completely hairbrained or ridiculous they don’t have a third baseman I mean and you could have had Matt Chapman for nothing uh I mean all due respect to Matt verling and J shella you don’t have a third baseman you don’t have a great offense at least

Statistically you had a chance to to go get these pieces but um you know again Scott Harris is new relatively it’s been two years there will come a time and it might be this year and it probably will be this year where you know that he’s

Not new anymore and it’s going to be okay let’s you know let’s go let’s go you know and so we’ll see how we’ll see how this year goes but uh I still you you put their team up against the wrestling American League Central I’m telling you go depth chart by depth

Chart it’s it’s it’s comparable and that’s the frustrating thing that they didn’t add to it exactly and I’m not going to give them any back rubs for I’m sorry winning effectively by default or back Oran because they’re in the worst division by like you said a mile one

Thing that really bothered me and I I I think has a good chance to age quite poorly is the draft last year as it unfolded my tweets are out there Wy Langford yeah Wy langford’s goingon to start for the Rangers on opening day say might hit in the middle of the order

Ben can you pull up the Wyatt lford little mash up here of him just crushing the ball and then Ken Rosenthal discussing him this is the the buzz lately on that guy Wyatt Langford for the Rangers it looks like he’s smiling at the pitch like I can’t wait for you to

Throw a pitch right now oh there’s a drive to Right Center that could be the Grand Slam he turns out of here so Out Crown watching the youngster clear the bases with his fifth Cactus League home run this kid is ready the Rangers are convinced he’s ready and not only is he

Ready he is going to hit most likely somewhere in the middle of the order for the defending World Series champions yeah not pretty now that ball would not have been out of coer park though what about the other four in Spring just kidding I’m just kidding how

How’s I I’m not a draft expert I’m not going to defend it because again I prefer college guys because especially when your team looks like they’re close and especially when you have a college guy and a high school guy who are both well regarded and the college guy could be here tomorrow like

I I I’m not going to defend that so you you would have gone with lford I would I would have um interestingly talking to some of the draft experts out there they disagree like Kylie mcgo you know he was on the record a couple weeks ago from

ESPN talking about how he like Clark over Langford so I mean there’s still people out there that like Clark I just high schoolers first of all I don’t think high schoolers project as accurately as college players um and again there’s the the path of how long

It’s going to take so yeah I mean you look at that and even before that yeah you like the idea of him being in your lineup now that a good use him right now he’s good enough to hit in the middle of the Rangers order the defending Champion

Defending World Champs I mean with a great offense yeah I mean yeah I you’re not going to get me to defend that I think they got some value I think they got some value lower in the draft but I mean you know this guy’s getting Mike Trout comparison you’re not going to get

Me to argue with you on this I don’t disagree I mean come on and it’s not a negative antix Clark Thing by all kind I mean you Keith W who I respect a lot he’s what I think six spots below Langford on his know his Prospect rank I

Think it’s they’re like six and 12 or something so it’s not so there’s I mean there’s high regard for Max 100% question but that guy’s going to hit man today just that’s really a preference of mine like if you have to choose of two guys who project pretty well similarly

I’m going to go with the college guy at least I’ve come to that’s been I’ve come around to that because a college guy can be there faster and again they project more accurately because they faced better competition already um in college so I just think that there’s less risk there

And and Max Clark wasn’t like this oh he is the guy like I mean you know like there have been high school guys who’ve been like you got to take this guy I mean it’s no question he wasn’t that so but and you know true I agree there were some people I respect

That said there’s your he’d be the first overall pick you know so there’s he’s a legit guy not in this draft I mean in this draft there were about three or four guys where people said any one of them really good draft yeah I mean so um

But I would I would have gone with him now I’d definitely go with it but even before I think I would have gone with him Nob brainer the gu Ops everywhere he goes like 1300 I mean they can’t get him out yeah I I just I think that’s going

To be bad and it’s you know even if Max Clark ends up being really good what the chances he’s as good as this guy I think small not tiny tiny but pretty small okay well even it’s like you know you look at Spencer Tolson out of college

111 I mean even the the length of development there you know and so when you’re talking about high school kid to me it just you know if I’m if I’m a GM it just scares me a little bit more with a high school kid and Max could be great

Um but you know and Riley green was taken out of high school and I think he’s going to have a good career but um it’s more volatile as an asset proje 100% I mean that’s an objective fact and you know you draft him and you don’t

Have to talk about maybe jie Martinez or whatever you might have your guy no there’s something to be said for like three years earlier I’m sorry that there’s something to be said for it especially when we’re this deep into this long stretch of mediocrity you mentioned torl in perfect segue my

Argument is I understand where fans were enthused and wanted to yell at people like me that were saying oh numbers looking pretty ugly for a first baseman one1 758 Ops this year uh this past year you pointed out during the break what 815 Ops in the second second 86 okay

Yeah I don’t want to cheat him out of that to me I don’t think we’re at a point where he’s arrived we’re good the Skeptics have been debunked that’s what are people are acting that way when I had petel on he was in here s he’s not

So hot on torl and he’s actually concerned that he’s ever going to come anywhere close to the ceiling that was a few months ago maybe he’s amended his opinion where are you at with him do you are you pleased with where he’s at do you think he approaches that 900 Ops

Range that you expect him to be at given his draft status in his position no I I’m I’m certainly not you know lighting the world on player that Spencer Tolson is going to be you know no doubt unbelievable player for the ti for years to come but you know I mean you can

Laugh at the 816 Ops it was a good second half it was progress and that’s what and I think the last time I was on the show might have been with Evan I’m not sure but I think that when you asked us then or one of the shows they all run

Together when you’ve been here seven times you had the Record Man but one of those times where you asked us I think Evan was more negative than I was because my opinion was I wanted to see progress and we saw progress in in 2023 there’s no question you can’t deny that

We were talking again when the audio cut out you know that you know and this has been my point forever I’m not as willing to just write guys off like if they don’t come into the major leagues and and light the world on fire right away

Like a lot of people are like they want it right away they want Mike Trout they want what what everyone expects white lford to do they want that but you know they want Justin berlander who comes right in the major leagues and is you know Rookie of the Year and eventually

Quickly sa young and they want that it just doesn’t happen all the time and and the example I always bring up again we’ll talk JD Mar who should be a tiger and is not but you his first three years at Houston had an Ops in the 680s all

Right and then comes to Detroit figures things out boom 900 boom thousand you know and figures it out some guys take longer um I just think that we’ve seen a little bit from Spencer in the second half of last year that okay you needed to see that you know he’s not getting

Sent down to the miners you know he’s being more aggressive he’s lifting the ball in the air more um it was a it was it was a very good second half and so I’m I’m not sold that he’s going to be here for 15 years and you know be you

Know Norm cash or whatever but um I don’t know if you know who that is but storm and Norm how dare you um like as if I don’t know my baseball but have you ever heard of Hank Greenberg right right um but um you know I I wanted to see

Progress I think we saw significant progress and that’s going to have to continue I’m insulted by the norm cash thing I’m I need 10 minutes can we take another can we have another audio break look I bet most of your audience doesn’t know much about Norm Cas that’s fair

Enough I I like I like Spencer Tolson it’s not an anti-oral and thing I just I pointed out the objective fact that there the standards are high when you draft a first basement 1 obviously they should be because it’s only happened three times absolutely it’s the

Standards have to be high and you and you have to accept that and understand that um the other two were high scor by he’s going he’s going this way though I mean he’s going up I mean that we saw that and it was a noticeable spike in the second half only laugh at

The 816 that’s obviously not the end game but that’s a significant Improvement 100% I’m optimistic what’s his Ops this year I think it’s got to be close to 900 and I think it will be really you you think we’re going like 880 plus range I think so I saw progress

No wonder why you got in 87 gam he went from he went from 700 seven whatever in the first half to eight something in the second half all right you know you you learn the leag a little bit more you learn how to be a major leager you learn

The pitchers I mean some guys just take a little bit longer I think it’ll be there I’m also by the way not afraid to be wrong so well we can talk about this next spring and if I’m wrong I’m wrong Fang graphs doesn’t like your your

Projection I think F graphs is not right all the time well didn’t say they’re right all the time but I’m just saying that you’re a little more optimistic than the analytical models on Tolson but you know Money Ball was a thing for a reason movie resonated won all those

World Series like it’s his fault I would tigers have the same handicapped do their own vending machine trade pretty soon I mean it’s a joke how this team is being run in terms of the payroll Tigers didn’t win a World Series but I which team would you have rather watch those

Tiger teams are so much fun and I think that that’s where the frustration is with this fan base is how much fun that era of Tiger baseball was I mean every night was an event 81 nights a year in downtown Detroit was an event and I think that’s where the frustration is

They’re never going to get back to we’re going to buy everybody and we’re going to get every big name that we want and basically Fantasy Baseball for Mich they’re never going to get back to that but to not even like you know to not even like come anywhere near hey that’s

A good player maybe we need a third baseman let’s go get him he’s not that expensive but to not do that is just that’s for the frustration it’s disappointing my I did have issues because with the A’s with the whole Moneyball thing I mean which team would

Would would you have been more of a fan of the Tigers from 2006 to 13 or the that A’s Moneyball team Tigers of course it’s fun it was so much fun and so that’s where the disappointment is that you know not that they’re not spending $200 million but that they’re not even

Spending $100 million I was mad that they didn’t add a bullpen arm 2006 the bullpen was Elite I think their best or second best year I think they’re number one every other year in that run even when they were good they were bottom half of the league just in terms of er

They had a bad Bullpen every year even when they had they actually did one they actually did go out and sign guys though but there were a couple opportunities my big one was papel Bond you know I was mad about Andrew Miller a different year that was the year we ended up playing

Him against him in Baltimore my point is there were a couple times where I thought Papa bounds there he was on the market didn’t get him Miller there on the market didn’t get him there were a couple and that was and that was the fault and I wrote a big piece about the

Bullpen Blues over that period of time and how it happened uh it was almost like a thesis and I don’t even think I came up with a reason why it happened just you know just happened but but that was the one fault with the debrowski illich blank

Check the blank check was to win but it was also to put to to sell 3 million tickets every year and to create this huge buzz and get every Star and who are the stars in baseball bullpen arms are not even Papa ban couldn’t hold a candle to signing

Prince Fielder as far as the Stars right and so that was the fault with them br and Ill is that they spent all this money but the bullpen wasn’t going to be we’re going to blow the bank on the bullpen because you know as I wrote I

Think I wrote he was very pissed as I wrote this but like no one was spending 50 bucks to watch Todd Jones clothes out of ball yeah didn’t he call you about that he emailed me the funny thing is is that he emailed me the funny thing is is

He emailed me like 3 years after the story ran like not go like he must have like Googled himself and found it but that was my point and it wasn’t a dog dig on him because he you know look he was a significant was paying to see Pitch

Though but that was the thing with ill and debrowski is that if they were going to spend they were going to spend on the big names and if you piece together a baseball team even the papa bonds of the world the bullpen is not going to excite

A team I agree I and I’ve never really you got a guy like Joel zayah who just comes out of nowhere and throws 105 miles an hour as a general matter there were a couple exceptions I mentioned on Papa Miller but I don’t really I don’t I don’t have any animosity towards

Ownership or debrowski my logic is this you had they did go out and get alberie and they did go get Nathan who Nathan never blew his save against Detroit and then was ter even take those guys even take the bull pening out of it my argument is they were in the World

Series as prohibitive favorites twice and just blew it and had the best team in baseball third year in 2013 and I think if they wi G 2013 was their best team we’ talked about this before the 2013 team might have been better than the 84 team like I mean it was that

Loaded honest to God um so yeah they they blew some opportunities I’ll say that 2006 was a much bigger blowing opportunity than the Giants team ended up being pretty good I think but 2006 was a big big fail um and then 2013 I mean how one pitch changes the

Entire story of your franchise just crazy to me and you and again Bullpen game three one pitch they lost one nothing like Napoli hit Verlander so it’s you know two two pitches two games two pitches right it’s just it’s CRA it’s crazy because I mean I’ll say I

I’ll to the day die I’ll say that if if poppy doesn’t hit that home run the Tigers win the World Series I agree 100% Leland disagrees he said that the Napoli home run was the one that did it and maybe he’s right because if they take a

2-1 lead but the PO the David Ortiz one if you come out of Boston up two nothing I mean you’ve done everything I mean you’re going to win that series 100% agree and that team was so good people forget how it’s it wasn’t like not all comebacks

Are created equal it wasn’t just a 4run lead erased in the eighth and then later completely in the ninth with a fifth run it was in the context of they weren’t even touching anybody on the Tigers pitching staff for either of the first two games they had no hitters even the

Third game they had no that’s true yeah one nothing yeah like they had no hitters into the fifth or sixth in the I’m saying like in the in the moment like I me because I was there unfortunately I was at Fenway and you’re sitting there it’s like the the prospect of them even

Getting a couple guys on the Tigers were they were go three up three down every inning I think they had two base runners in like 17 Innings before that that team was so good it’s like what happened yeah that’s I I will digress on the 2013 tigers and be depressed go go

Go compare get a spreadsheet and compare the 2013 team to the6 team and you’ll think one finish in last place w w the World Series that’s how different they are in Talent yeah the the 20 the6 team is fascinating with how that team was built really not a very talented team if

You look at it if you look back on it it’s really not that great of a team dembrowski Master Class like if you look at the assembly it was like sto stole Pano Kenny Rogers bargain you know they they took like Marcus Tims was productive for that team they got him

Off it’s just that was a Master Class by him so yeah I I I don’t like the dski slander out there I think he did everything my argument is is going to the Hall of Fame I mean he’s he’s my guy I mean the dude’s W I mean he’s won

Everywhere he’s been and you can argue that all he spent well he’s spent wisely he’s got the players to win well if you hire him you’re going to be in the World Series right I mean that’s that’s been every team that he’s been the general manager of other than the Expos and they

Might have been in there if they didn’t have the strike and he won executive of the Year there too for for building them up into like a viable team so even his one place where it didn’t happen he was executive of the Year there he’s the man

But you love tol and you think he’s going to hit 60 oh this year that’s good to know let’s go back can we rewind I’ll tell you what I’ll say 31 and cl 888 I like 888 for the Ops if he’s that that’s great I mean we all

Wanted nine plus but I mean come on at what point are you just being an [Β __Β ] like I mean if if he’s high high eights we’re good jav by is not 888 not 888 perhaps about 60% that yeah a little better than half look I didn’t want him you’re right on

That Chris castellani sat here with me and we both this before this this is when we were talking about all those Short Stops no one was signed yet I I came out strong for Seager oh he would have never signed here okay fine whatever I said that guy was the clear

Best guy that’s a win for me I’ll take it Chris I think preferred kareah but also like Seager neither one of us wanted this guy so none of this is surprising to me maybe the extent of how bad it of it has to be surprising I mean

The the dep the depths of the this being atitude is a surprise that’s fair because when we were sold everyone was sold on Bas and that he’s not going to be this guy that’s going to you know carry you the entire year he’s going to have two

Two weeks at a time that make you go crazy as a fan and then he’ll have two weeks at a time where he just puts the team on his back we have seen none of that that was sold and seen none of that I think what did he have a did he have

The walk-off hit in in his first game at at coer maybe he might have had the the winning hit and everyone’s like oh he wears cool shoes and here we go and ever since then we’ve seen none of that I mean I don’t understand how any pitcher

Throws him a pitch within a foot and a half of the outer edge of the strike zone of the plate I mean they kind of learned last year they they were still giving into him a little bit in his first year here they that’s why his Ops

Got even worse this guy’s been bottom three both years he’s been here in the major leagues in terms of Ops he’s atrocious Ben can you throw up his stats for for this year I mean this is It’s spring training but like got six hits now yeah isn’t that impressive it

Was none for a while for 40 I I think he started off one for 23 but six for 47 the on base 140 310 Ops 14 strikeouts look I get it’s spring small sample Size Doesn’t Matter spring doesn’t matter but 100% agree but this all I have is the

Data in front of me and I I got two years of the guy being terrible in real games and this I so I’m sorry if he were hitting in Spring let’s say you were lighting it up there that Dominic Kone guy in Seattle I think I got 1400 Ops in

Spring no I’m not saying it’d be oh that here comes the Redemption tour but it’d be a little encouraging to see him not flailing about right I mean just a little bit am I am I not tell me this am I being unfair there’s nothing to be optimistic about

With hob bias am I being crazy cut the cheick and get him the hell out of here $98 million it’s easier said than done you’re going to he’s a negative he’s an anre he’s hurting you I think that this year will be a year where they will evaluate obviously look Scott Harris

Scott Harris was now this is where you you know you don’t know what to make of Scott Harris yet I get that whatever he was this is not his fault and he was very clear in his introductory pressor when he was talking with us afterward were you know he he did that whole

Dissertation which was really fascinating we’re going to win with the strike zone and you know it’s starting with the strike zone in and out for pitching we got a throw strikes for hitters we got swing at strikes you know and you know a pitching if we throw

Strikes then our defense is going to be on their toes it’s the whole wheel starts with the strike zone and then we asked him afterwards so how does Hobby bias fit into that and he just kind of smiled and goes oh well we we’ll we’ll he’ll adapt and you know it obviously

Hasn’t happened uh it’s been a disaster he’s got $98 million in four years he’s not going to get cut this year it’s not going to happen um but he could be benched this year I think that they’re going to give him a couple months and if it’s that big of a disaster they’re

Going to have to find another option they’re not going to just cut the check right now it’s $98 million let’s let’s say he runs Chris ill is not going to do that he’s paying him anyway he’s not going to but he’s not going to pay him

To to go away he’s not going to do that not $98 million can we do something is there anything they can do to just make him so miserable that he quits does he have options left Maj like in Major League when you give him the terrible plane with the duct

Towels but now the Tigers have a new plane and you know I don’t even feel bad for the guy and you know Evan petzel had a great you know back sort of you know backstory information there and some inside baseball from talking toas and he seems to think and he laid out the

Reasons why that Bas really cares all I know is I see a guy on tape telling fans how rich he is and he doesn’t give a [Β __Β ] and and and taunting the fans and doing all this [Β __Β ] he’s the he’s not even a sympath pathetic like Jordan Zimmerman is the worst contract in

Detroit sports history this one’s pushing it I felt bad for the guy he wasn’t flipping the bird at fans and grabbing his junk and all that [Β __Β ] this guy’s not even a sympathetic shitty you certainly want a little bit of humility when you’re terrible I don’t want him

Around look we all know he’s not going to go anywhere so next topic just not like people ask what are they going to do with them they’re just not going to cut them for $98 million they’re just not when when do you you cut him if he’s 598 Ops this year again

Do you bring him back next year and then the argument is too and then Chris and I kind of debated this a little bit too well he’s good defensively and I’m like is he like I don’t know makes some nice plays but nice plays and then he

Butchers some easy plays and it’s like I don’t know are you really that good defensively I don’t know um that’s a tough one to figure out like it’s crazy that you’re just hoping that you get a guy who has a 290 on base percentage and

A six 50 Ops or you know I mean it’s just nuts that what a disaster and I just you fell you fell fast and you felt fell hard and you fell fast and I I don’t see any optimism with there with that and uh and I and I don’t doubt

Devon or Evan that that he cares but yeah when you’re struggling you probably should be a little bit more aware of the image that you’re portraying would show a little bit of humility you know when you’re struggling no one wants to see that stuff I want to rip through some

Positive stuff here really quick with with jav bias no he’s terrible there’s nothing nice to say he I’m done with him scoo looks awesome scoo is going to be an ace don’t tell him that because he doesn’t like the term Ace but he doesn’t like why why not I don’t know he just

Don’t labels or something but uh he didn’t Chris castani did a really good interview with him if you haven’t seen it I thought it was really good um he’s really good and he’s a big reason why anchoring that rotation that that I think that this team can contend and

Will contend deep into the past the summer and have a chance um he’s he’s good Chris is waiting on that victory at man because he he said like like two three years ago Chris it was a I mean a while ago he’s like that guy’s going to

Win a sa young and he’s on the board now now he’s on the board like seventh or something favorite or he’s in is he he might even be 20 to1 or something like that I’m not sure I think he’s in the top 10 odds whatever it is uh yeah I

Mean he’s he’s impressive and I’m really healthy that’s a key it’s a you say that with a lot of these guys and that’s the frustrating thing is that during the Aila era you know it seemed like every pitcher got hurt right and um um talking to people that that it

Can’t be a coincidence there has to be some something going on with your infrastructure with medical and health and that’s been a big change um with the Tigers under Harris there have been a lot of emphasis in that with I mean totally flipping the the medical and the

Science stuff so you hope if you’re Tiger fan that the the key injuries to Pitchers are behind you so the Tigers have made tangible changes into something with their structure yeah they have they’ve got more they’ve got a much more detailed I think medical program like like scientific like that they deal

With and I think they were dealing they might have even been working with the um at some point with some like stuff that’s way above my knowledge like as I mean I wasn’t good with science my mom wanted me to be a doctor and that was never going to happen because I don’t

Understand that stuff but I do know that they’ve placed a big emphasis on that and talking to people late in the v AA era when people when these pictures were getting hurt I heard from a lot of people in in the game that it’s not a coincidence it can’t be a coincidence

Something’s wrong in the way that you are working with these pitchers and the way they are developing that is causing these injuries no I mean send that guy down to Tampa to help them out cu the Tigers have been a picture of Health pitching wise compared to the race the

Race have seven guys out of the knife like every two weeks yeah thing about the Raaz is they got 20 more they why pop right into your you know yeah it’s Chris Speaking of Chris Chris is always arguing with me about the Rays and you

Know I’m a big I’m not a raay fan I’m like rooting for but I I respect them and Blown Away how much they win with all these injuries and all it’s remarkable but they do it with no money and you know Chris hates them he thinks

They’re a joke they’re a bunch of losers and I my my point is that’s the the rays are the ultimate reason why I don’t give a crap about excuses with the Tigers if the Rays can figure it out and if you’re not spending anywhere near League average I don’t want to hear about

Injuries maybe you should have bought up a little more depth you said it with JD and with Riley Green’s injuries like it’s I don’t want to hear it when you’re not spending it’s like maybe ass sign a couple more guys wouldn’t be such a problem but sco’s awesome the rotation

Really in general I like Ma I like nice move and I think flarity has big potential for bounce backck um and I think m is a guy to watch 98.7 miles hour I read the other day m to me is the guy in the rotation this year to watch

He takes a step forward scoble is scoble and all bets are off this team can can contend definitely contend and then I mean the reports on Jackson job from last fall and that he might be here this summer the rotation is where I I pin the

Hopes on if you’re a tiger fan and that’s why I think that you know again that’s why it’s like why can’t you just go get one of those two pieces but to to kind of fill it all out and make it all work but m to me more than even school

Because I think we know what to expect from school if he stays healthy he’s a stud M I think could have a big ear the rotation is getting really interesting cuz we we talked about school B again look Manning’s in the miners like this is a guy who was your number it could

Have been your number three or four last year or the year before and he didn’t even make the cut by the way he had a good spring pitch wall in Spring yeah like I mean and so that’s that’s the interesting thing about this tiger team

Is that you know Bo brisky gets cut you know like he didn’t make the team might have been an automatic guy a couple years ago you’re starting to see more of these no one’s you know you know we’re not just filling up the roster spots like there’s there’s people behind that

Are getting left behind and uh so that’s a good sign Yeah you mentioned that on the podcast with makosi today you said something like you they’re they had the better problem now you’re starting to see guys get cut and you’re like oh [Β __Β ] they cut him like when I saw Manning I’m

Like okay that’s that was like an eyeopener because again I looked and I’m like I thought Manning had a really good spring and he did and he didn’t even make the cut um when when was the last time there was a spring training cut that we were like oh my God he was

Playing so well it’s it’s it was probably Marcus Tims in 200 whatever over Bobby higginson remember that remember that that was a big that was a big deal because they kept higginson who was just terrible at that point Y and that caused a lot of problems in that

Clubhouse by by doing that because that was probably the last one to me that stood out like a big cut like whoa so you’re you’re at 87 wins does that get I I want to couch that a little bit I I I I think I probably spoke a little too

High I think that they’re going to be over 500 I think do they win the division I have them in second place behind the twins next year I have’t I have it being a very close race when do they win this crap division it could be this year I

Mean it really could be this year I I think you should expect him to win it within the next two years there is a lot more to like about watching this team for all my negativity there was a lot of fun players to watch last year and you

Know because they have the young guys you know it used to be where you’re sold on oh Scott seore is coming up oh my he’s going to be the next you know now it’s like you’re sold on these young guys and they come up and they produce and that’s a different offensively

Tigers have done that with their pitches they’ve had pictures come up over the years but offensively the history of the franchise isn’t really overly great you know uh at least in recent years recent years it’s atrocious did you see my graphic that we made on Twitter a few

Months so now you see you see Riley green come up and have a torid month you know you see Spencer Tolson have the 30 some homers in a good second half last year you see you know Carrie Carpenter Carri Carpenter wasn’t even one of the guys you were thinking of come up and

Wow he he could be good you see Parker Meadows come up and you see what he can do you know you see what he’s going to look like defensively so now it’s like you see these guys come up and they actually do something that get you excited um like you know even during

That run in like the 2006 to 13 when they had the prospect coming up and it was like it’d come up and it be like that’s it you know so it they’re fun um yeah they could be more fun with some more Talent you know that infus some

Bigger names and again just the short-term commitment that you could have had these guys for like Mike was talking about but U I think they’ll be fun again and I think they’ll contend well into the season you you put it way too nicely with the bats do you know the

Remember we talked about this who is the last batter that the team drafted and in Detroit had a top 9 Al MVP finish um I I I should know this um and they didn’t win it but I mean they no no no no of course not yeah I mean we’re

Talking top nine this is this is top nine we’re talking Darren Ur dead figgins there have been some oh like Lorenzo Kane it’s not that hard to have one magical year what year was it the dra the draft year the the year that they had I think it was I think it was

The 84 team it was give it was either 83 or 84 it was right in there well it’s got to be traml then KK Gibson K Gibson KK Gibson traml wasn’t in the top 10 that year well but he was drafted he must have been drafted before Gibson I’m

Guessing cuz that’s so you said top nine finish right yeah yeah so who was the top 10 uh there must have been a guy who finished 10th that you cut off the list to cherry pick of course of course you why otherwise it would have been 10 I it

Was it was I think he was close I think a was like 12 yeah I remember that I think it was Granderson but I knew when you had the top nine I’m like there must have been a top 10 of course yeah of course but that’s that’s still atrocious

Though I mean you know single digit you could justify bad it’s bad that’s almost impossible so I I I like what a lot of this team is doing I don’t think to spend is there and I think a lot of our optimism being based on oh they’re in a

Shitty division while true isn’t necessarily an exciting thing that gets my you know J’s going no I get it but I still think they’re going to be entertaining I agree I I’m excited for the baseball he’s a big baseball fan obviously too it’s probably my number one sport honestly in terms of passion

It’s pretty crazy that it’s already here I I thank God though especially with Michigan State basketball he here’s speaking of college basketball Michigan State basketball was preseason number four not thrilled with their season I know their coach isn’t nobody is I think the happiest uh bunch

Of fans in town in the state of Michigan the U fans you were right in the thick of us tell me about that what was that like covering that was cool um it was cool because I’ve um I was around it from the beginning of the season and

I’ve been around the team you know they have a very veteran team and I’ve been around them because I’ve done Oakland games for you know alongside Neil on the TV side for the last couple years the home games so being around him was was cool but then you know like knowing

Going into the season that this could very well happen I’m not saying the Kentucky win but that they could get back to the NCAA tournament and then seeing what they did it was it was fun to to be around it you know just and not just because they beat Kentucky and you

Know should have beat really could have beat North Carolina State but um getting to know the the kids on that team I mean it’s one of the nicest group of athletes I’ve ever been around most polite most humble um so it was a lot of fun going

Into that Kentucky game I mean you were covering that this whole process right did you see anything with them that you said H these guys might pull this off or at least they think they can yeah I said if they if they made between I think I

Said if they make between 15 and 23s they got a chance I think they made 15 DQ Cole Hit the big one um that uh Jack G obviously hit 10 of them but um I said if they could do that because talking to campy I think it was Monday or Tuesday I

Think it was Monday cuz selection Sunday you know and he was all excited because you know big name and it was obviously going to be big exposure for for Oakland but then I sat down with him Monday after practice and I asked him I said oh

You’ve seen some film now what do you think and he looked at me and he just kind of shook his head and I’m like oh what you don’t it’s a tough match up he goes no we can win he goes we can beat this team he goes if it would have been

Kraton or if it would have been Iowa State or you know I wouldn’t be saying that but we can beat this team we got to have we got to make it get a [Β __Β ] ton of Threes And we got to limit them offensively he said 74 but they ended up

Keeping him in 76 which is pretty good for the number two scoring offense in the country um he expected that Trey tal he actually wasn’t counting on Trey to have a big game because you know kuy’s got those three seven Footers um that you just don’t see in the Horizon league

So he said if you make 15 between 15 and 23es we got a shot and they made 15 and Trey Townsen just didn’t care about the seventh voits in the second half and kind of took over so I thought they had a chance I mean I picked them to lose

Like everybody else but I I thought they had a chance plus you know Kentucky has a history of you know not exactly showing up in the you know with all these freshman and Performing well in the early rounds of the NCA tournament they were a trending National Title pick

Though they were they were up there in sort of that second tier of popular pick they probably were up there in what two years ago when they lost to St Peters too yeah they were they were yeah that was you know they had the national player of the year sheepway the other

Thing someone told me going in is that Oakland obviously didn’t have any NCAA tournament experience other than rocket WS the one playing game against UCLA with Michigan State but they had four seniors and they won a [Β __Β ] ton of close games this year and so someone was

Telling me he’s like you know they got a lot of seniors they know and they’ve you know that that comes in handy when things when the lights get bright and things get tight and kuy’s got a lot of freshman and we’ve seen this over the

Years in a lot of an T tournaments that the you know the Freshman tend to wilt more than the senior tend to you know the seniors tend to rise and I think that played a Major Impact as well I mean look at the the Reed Shepard kid

Was afraid to shoot I mean if you watch that game he he wasn’t going to shoot if he unless he had a wide open shot I you got Jack [Β __Β ] who was just darting around making 10 threes this kid from division 2 a year ago Reed Shepard this G

Everyone talks about he was under the bright lights you watch that game back he was afraid to shoot the ball he’s terrified I mean he was absolutely afraid didn’t score Till There Was what three or four minutes left in he looked like he didn’t even want him to pass it

To I he was played a little bit better but between the two of them I mean Goki outscored him by a mile you know I mean and um so someone told me that watch out for that you know the seniors over the Freshman could matter and it did you’ve

Known what a what a Vibe I mean just to see that building which was 80% Kentucky fans I mean they were Kentucky fans were still piling into the building 20 minutes after the game started I mean and just to see it was like it was kind

Of like the scene out of Rocky 4 where Rocky’s fighting in Moscow you know and it’s all against him and then to see it shift at the you know with all at the end you know with all those other fans and was cool to watch you’ve known great

Campy a long time what do you think that game meant to him oh it meant everything he has told me before and I called him out on this I think it’s [Β __Β ] but he’s told me before that a win over Michigan state would mean more than a win in the NCAA

Tournament and I called him out and I’m like that’s [Β __Β ] you I don’t believe that obviously though he wants to beat Michigan State you know he’s 0 for whatever a million um he’s played some close games the Kay Felder ball at the palace when Michigan state was number

One and Kay Felder had the ball that rolled around the rim and around the rim around the rim and didn’t go in and they lost in overtime um that obviously would have been a lot because that was on National Television against number one Michigan State um but you know they beat

Kentucky and you know here’s your first your program’s first ever win in the round of 64 they had a play and win back in 2015 or 20 2005 their first ever division won beat Alabama A&M whatever but to win a game and even like all right say you draw kraton and you beat

Kraton doesn’t land like beating Kentucky I know and they are but it doesn’t land like being beating John calip Perry and Kentucky and those freshman those draft picks on National Television in prime time like the game of the day Drew 6 million viewers doesn’t land like that so he

Acknowledged after the game that that that one was the biggest in his career cuz he had said before he’s like if we win this game then yes it’ll be the biggest win in program history but for me maybe not because he still counts that Michigan win in 2000 you know

Because M Oakland had just gone division one and that was a big win and campy’s dad and brother both played football at Michigan so he had some bragging right so he still considered that one and if he had beaten Michigan State like the K Felder game if they had won that that

Would have been up there but after the game I mean he was immediately just you know he knew that was the biggest one of his career and probably will be the biggest one of his career were you in the locker room after I believe you were

Right I was around I I don’t think I should put in the locker I was outside the locker I was all over the place what what was the the vibe like there was were they hooting and hoing back there skipping around what was that like they were very excited obviously but

Not not as much as maybe you’d expect like I got the vibe from this team that they felt all week that they were going to win that game they I mean they’re very confident group I mean before the Horizon league tournament final against Milwaukee great campy went up to Jack

Gokki and he said campy said just one more just one more and Goki looks at him he goes just seven more just seven more and it’s funny except I don’t think they were joking like and I remember also with gki who’s just fascinating and I’m very happy for everything that’s come

His way cuz uh you know coming from division 2 and you know just a great story but um mon that Monday at practice after selection Sunday at the arena um goie shooting threes and I took a video he made like a [Β __Β ] ton in a row

So then he comes over and I’m just standing there and he asked me he’s like Tony what do you think of Kentucky I’m like man I said man they got two lottery picks two two lottery picks coming off the bench and he looks at me he goes

That means there’s going to be three lottery picks Off the Bench for the game talking about himself I mean but he he was setting a point where setting and he was you know he was sending a statement that we don’t care who they are you know

We we have a chance to win this game they they believe that all week and you saw it they never I mean kuy’s biggest lead for the game was two I mean I mean Oakland dominated you know that game I mean really in a lot of aspects uh

Against a team that should have been better they were bigger they’re faster you know they’re more acclaimed um but it was funny because after they won the Horizon leag title Goki was actually pissed that they were cutting down the Nets and he was pissed that they were taking the photo

With that big ticket you know punch your ticket thing because he’s like guys we we we have more work that we’re going to do like he believed that and the whole team did so um it wasn’t as exciting as you would have thought I mean they were

Pumped no question but you got the sense early in the week that they were they me business I wanted that second win for them so badly they wide open three in the corner to go up four lman yeah they could have had it and then 37% three-point shooter lman lamman didn’t

Have a good tournament and and that’s a bummer because he got him I mean he’s a big reason why they got there um but to not get the shot off you know with the tie game with 15 16 17 seconds left that’s going to haunt campy I mean he’s

He’s still distraught that they didn’t even get a shot off um to have a chance to win that game and uh you know you go to overtime and you know that’s where Cinderella is a lot of times you know and they of course hated the term Cinderella but you know journalists we

Love it you know cuz that’s what it you know we love cliches uh Cinderella tend to overtime they tend to that’s a bad place for them and uh that was a game they could have and should have won and U and after that who knows I

Mean you make the sweet 16 and all of a sudden they’re a legitimately good team they’re very good they’re a very good team but because they’re from The Horizon League no one really knew anything about them no one knew anything about Jack goui no one knew anything

About ter Townson they’re G they found out especially about try Townson they found out a lot about him so let’s talk about try Townson actually I’m making the pitch this is my campaign you’ve seen it for those that haven’t been you mentioned Cinderella let’s talk about other fictional characters in the land

Of ozs Trey Townsen let’s get him these Lancing Ben roll that please for Us Follow The Yellow Brick Road Follow The Yellow Brick Road the yellow brick Road there he is I want Trey towns in here I was blown away by this kid’s game you look at his numbers against Power five four opponents this past year over 20 points a game really effective put 17 up against my school Michigan State our school Michigan State obviously we you

Saw what happened in the NCAA tournament it was like 25 and a half points a game and 12 and a half rebounds in his two games dominant in that Milwaukee game for the conference Championship 38 11 and5 I want this kid here I need this

Kid here what do you make of my stance should Michigan State want try talson on their team oh absolutely um I I started to get the sense pretty early in this season that you know that he wasn’t coming back I think you know I I would say you know things on the television

Broadcast like you know Oakland fans should appreciate what they have this year because you know while they have them and they didn’t understand they’re like oh you know he’s got one more year of Eligibility left yeah he does and it’s not going to be at Oakland in all

Likelihood I mean unless Oakland finds the bag because uh he’s going to get paid and well into the six figures and I think that Michigan State makes a lot of sense Tom ISO talks about he’s going to make some changes he’s going to try to you know mix things up because he’s

Going to go deeper in this tournament or die trying um so uh Trey Townson would be a guy that um if if and when Trey Townson goes into the port all the time is would probably be among the first phone calls he’s not a huge dude he’s 66 he’s not

Some seven-footer he’s not Zack Edy but he plays bigger than his 66 and you saw it against Kentucky the seven-footers he went in there took over the second half when they needed him and got the job done against him he did it again against NC State against those big dudes that

God that burns guy by the way I never saw the DJ Burns kid what a game he has I mean just what a fun player to watch this big guy that looks like Zach Randolph who who could move like a ballet dancer and fire passes like he

Was a short stop I mean just very impressive game but but Trey was the undersized guy in both those games and and took over at times um he plays bigger than his 66 and he’s just tough I mean he’s just a tough kid uh he’s a

Good passer he doesn’t have to be the guy if if it’s not happening for him like the one of the I think the Horizon League semi-finals it wasn’t happening for him they were doubling them he saw double teams all year long except in the NCAA tournament where the opponents

Thought they didn’t have to double them because they were bigger and then he burned them U but he saw doubles all year long and he I mean he has a ton of assists I mean he’s really good at finding the open man he doesn’t have to

Be the guy um so he’s a good Clubhouse guy as they say so I think he fits with Michigan State and I think it’d be a great story for him to end up there you covered the guy you know obviously anyone can see that watches him hell of

A player Tom this what talks about our kind of guy you know okg and a certain type of prototype not just in style of play but personality and selflessness what’s Trey Townsen like as a dude do you think he fits in the room I mean

He’s I’ve known him for a few years now and really got to know him I did a big story on him last year um last season um because it was very clear that he was becoming the guy in The Horizon League Antoine Davis was about to leave I

Remember telling Trey I’m like you’re going to be the Horizon League player of the year the first year that Antoine leaves that’s what ended up happening and by the way he was the horizonally player of the year even though he only averaged 17 only 17.3 points which was

Like seventh in the league but that’s how much the the coaches knew how good he was and knew what he meant to the team he didn’t have to be the guy every night again if he was getting doubled you know he was going to you know he had

Blake Lampman and Jack GOI and um so I got but I got to know him pretty good last season did a story on him talking about his upbringing I mean this is a kid who you know he first met campy when he was two years old um because you know

Both of Trey’s parents Skip and Nicole both went to Oakland um skip played for campy back in the division two days and so Trey started going to the Oakland camps when he was 8 years old and all he ever wanted to do was play basketball at

Oakland I mean who who says that you know like that this doesn’t happen that you got this kid who’s going to be pretty good and all he wants is Oakland and uh and uh you know he just he can’t be calls him Mr Oakland they’ve had some really good players over the years

They’ve had guys in the NBA they’ve had other guys who let him to end silly tournament but he call Trey towns and Mr Oakland even though Greg knows expects and almost hopes that he leaves you know to better his future after this season but as far as a team guy I

Mean they had a lot of those guys but I mean he’s he’s a number one I mean those guys on that team respect the hell out of them and uh and not just for what he meant on the floor but just a good dude I mean you won’t find anybody say

Anything bad about Trey Townson if and if someone did say anything bad about Trey Townson I would question the person that said it over Trey Townson I I mean I haven’t heard a bad word about the guy he’s he’s my cause celeb right now there’s going to be a number of great

Guys in the portal we don’t even know about yet I just I love his game I love his personality his style of play I’m fine with him he can play bigger and by the way he can shoot threes as we saw against North Carolina State cuz that’s

Funny cuz no one saw him shoot threes this year he only took 10 the whole season because you have Blake Lam and you have Jack GOI and then you have DQ Colt you don’t need Trey town you need Trey to go inside do thing with Chris

Conway uh and just you know handle it in there but Trey was so pissed off in that first half against North Carolina State because it was a physical game a very physical game on both sides and the refs just said [Β __Β ] it you know let him go

And they did and Trey was getting frustrated so he finally just said screw it I’m going to take a couple threes and just drains both of them so he’s got that part of his game too if need be uh but he just plays bigger than he is and

That you know personality wise and on the floor I mean he’s just he I’m I’m getting to know him over the last few years seeing this happen to him is uh you know is I’m happy that this is happening for him because you know I kind of you know

Didn’t see this coming necessarily but you knew it was a special player a couple years ago and to see what he was able to do um and put himself on the map in just a really a three- game span I mean Milwaukee you know I mean he was always

Going to transfer and he was always going to get paid in the in all likelihood look there’s still a chance he could come back but on all likelihood he’s graduating the spring and he’s going to do that one year poers conference um and uh he was always going

To get paid and always going to go there but now after the game against Milwaukee where he just it was one on five I mean and he just beat them um against a very good Milwaukee offense you know like they end up beating him because Trey

Towns just decided I’m going to score 38 and could have scored 40 um and then you got the two Prime Time games um in NC tournament where they saw him going up against bigger dudes and uh and and not just holding his own but thriving so yeah Michigan State seen that Tillman

Used to lock up luuka Garza you know four Ines taller than number three inches taller and quite a bit heavier at the time it’s there’s a prototype there that kid can play I want him like hollan against Ed yeah a little bit of a bigger disparity there but I and you know who

I’m talking about I don’t want to out him on the air I don’t even think he’d care but just in case he would but I was talking to a Lancing media member dignitary who knows Tam ISO very well you know who I’m talking about and he

Said ah he saw my thing about towns and he goes I don’t know I don’t think Tom would do that to to Greg campy they’re friends he’s not going to take his guy what’s your take on that do you think that that’s that’s not an impediment

It’s not no it’s not at all um you know look Greg Greg and I talked about an hour after the North Carolina State game I didn’t want to ask him about at the press conference because you know you know I’m sure he didn’t want to discuss the future you know that quickly after

The loss so in the hallway about an hour after we we chatted and I just started talking to him about Trey and I’m like you know look I said for people for fans that don’t understand why Trey might leave what would you say to them and he

Just said he’s going to get paid and not just paid like substantially and the projections out there are crazy I mean uh there’s a lot of money out there to be had he put himself on the map not there you know this season as a whole but obviously in prime time in the

Tournament and Greg said you know to me he’s like he gave me four years that’s all I asked for he gave me four years he’s going to graduate which means Camp’s rule is you have to graduate to get your number in the RAF so he’s going

To get that and uh Camp’s like how can I ask any more of them and he can’t be understanding the situation now look Oakland you know they’ve got a few more alums who are a little bit more alert and awake about their program after that

Um you know I think that they have a little bit more dialogue going on about what can we do and so campy is you know I wouldn’t even say cautiously optimistic I mean they’re looking for money obviously to C with but you’re talking the difference between tens of

Thousands and hundreds of thousands of dollars and campy will hold no grudge and uh and told me that you know you know that he’s going to get a lot of calls when he goes in the portal and he’d be surprised if a guy in East laning didn’t do it and can’t be would

Have no issue with that okay so none no issue with did he me did he say Michigan State when you talk I said Michigan State and he didn’t he would have no issue with that I’m confident you think Tom is would I don’t think so because they’re friends they’re going they’re

Going to talk it over I’m sure I bet you the first call ISO would make would be to campy and then it would be to Trey yeah you know just to you know but this is the reality of college basketball he gave you four years Camp be said has

Said that all year long that he gave us everything we asked for he’s Mr Oakland that’s what he calls him Camp I mean obviously campy is Mr Oakland but campy wants to call Tre towns in Mr Oakland just because of his upbringing where at 2 three four years old all he wanted to

Do is go to Oakland and he went there and he took he led him to the greatest season in Oakland basketball history with the biggest win in Oak basketball history and he’s got a chance to get paid in the hundreds of thousands of dollars campy knows the reality of the

Situation and he’s happy to watch him go thrive on the next level and if it if he thrived at Michigan State next year campy would be thrilled can you help me uh facilitate some type of nil deal no if he comes to Michigan State can we

Organize that what can I do as the spe Avenue show guy to get my I want him an e Lancing Tony I like that guy’s game well there’s going to be money I mean it’s all about money I mean he’s going to get offers I mean we’re talking I

Mean I’ve heard people talking half a million dollars I mean that’s and I’m fine I haven’t heard that from one person I’ve heard that from many people uh across the game so um it’s all about money you know yeah we can we got it

Story I mean it would be a great story I mean to go from Oakland but by the way Oakland and MSU had such this connection for for a long time I mean the universities you know to go be on the biggest stage with Oakland and lead them

To the biggest win and then go to MSU and kind of change the culture a little bit there in how Tom ISO does things and maybe lead them to something special it would be a phenomenal story I think he’s taking him to the final four they got to

Make that call that guy’s that guy’s a baller man he is not afraid I just I getting to know him I’m just I’m just happy that that people learned about him and learned who he is and learn what kind of player he can be yeah great

Story and the parents were cool I want to finish here last thing totally off topic although I guess it is still in the college basketball realm you were one of the first people I think you’re probably the first guy that was saying hey keep an eye on that Drew Valentine

Guy you know just we all knew him from the grand assistant obviously his brother Star National player of there in Michigan State but you said you know we’re not there yet with the iso succession but when we get there keep an eye on him that was like probably what

Three years ago you told me that maybe longer now stock up he had a really good first year backslid really good Third Year what’s your take on him ultimately as the Isel successor which I think we’re still a few years away we’re still probably a ways away I agree but do do

You still are you still on that train where you at I think he’s trending in that direction and obviously has the ties there and I think that you know it could make a lot of sense um but I just think it’s so far away like I like when

Would like when would we think realistically ISO would walk away like 6 years 10 years like I mean it’s probably between it’s probably between that number I mean it’s still a long ways away I mean there was a time where Tom Ken was the natural successor I mean

So it’s it’s just too early to tell but he’s certainly trending in that way yeah I like him a lot I I’m not trying to push his a l i I’ve been the one arguing with these people and I guess we’ll finish on this point I think it’s crazy

Tony and and I know you’ve had some quals with ISO I believe I think it’s I have no issue with ISO but am I making something up I thought we disagreed on last time you were here we talked about whatever it doesn’t matter the point is people are trying to

Push him out in some Circles of the Michigan State fan base even people that really like tzo right are saying love him build a statue we’ll honor him we’ll throw him a parade it’s time he’s done yeah are you in this Tomo is cooked please God retire no I’m not there but I

Mean this is a different world of College athletics and you you adapt or you’re done like I mean I think that and some guys couldn’t handle it I mean look at who walked away who couldn’t handle the job I mean coach you know shashy walks away Roy Williams

Walks away Jay Wright how old is he I mean he walks away because he’s he didn’t want to deal with it beheim leaves and I think beheim was probably pushed out I don’t think he walked away on his own but um look at the guys I mean even football Sabin you know if

It’s the old college football sabin’s not leaving like it’s just a different time and you have to adapt and you have to embrace the nil you have to embrace the portal um you know look who’s texting you over there tell them to shut up it’s it’s Twitter people probably

Tell me how terrible this show is terrible my opinions are just P you up over there well you better be breaking a story for these level this but you have to adapt I mean and I don’t think he and I think it’s fair and I think he’s acknowledge that he hasn’t adapted as

Well as he should um look he wanted you know he he Prides himself in the culture of Michigan State which is totally fair and that’s what I miss most about College athletics with all this is that nobody builds that program anymore right that used to be what you did is you

Build a program and the programs that built a program from the ground up I mean and had the staying power it was such a cool thing and Michigan State did that it’s not the way it is anymore the players have power which I think that you know they should have a fair amount

Of power to you know determine where they play and and if they’re paid and what not so um we’re not going backward in college basketball or college football so if we’re not going backward if you’re not going to adapt and embrace the transfer portal and embrace the nil

World and embrace the players have the power then you’re going to get left behind and Michigan State I mean this was not a good year they had two wins in in you know Baylor and Illinois uh I’m stunned that they got an eight seed like but I think that that

Speaks to like the level of nine seed but yeah nine they were the nine yeah yeah so I think that speaks to the level of um where college basketball is where I think we have a you know the top two seed and you saw it you know all the

Ones and twos made the sweet 16 there was a big divide this year um so they’re fortunate I think that they had this year this year so that their streak could continue um but I mean he said it he has to make changes and he’s right I

I was told they’re pivoting hard on the portal begrudging was the term yeah but yeah you just have to there’s so much talent in the portal every year and I mean guys from mid Majors other guys from you know I mean towns I know that you want your Charlie bells and mo pets

And matin Cleaves and you know you want that it’s you’re just it’s not going to happen which is actually pretty remarkable you know I know it’s on a smaller scale but you know it’s pretty remarkable what Oakland was able to do with the three seniors who played up

Combined 13 years there when any of them could have left and gone played higher ball you know over the course of those years you know it’s pretty remarkable that they were able to do that you’re not going to see those Flintstone teams anymore it’s just the which is sad right

CU that was fun and it’s and it’s cool to think about you know like Sim City like you build the city right you know that was a fun game when I was growing up you know building the city and watching it grow and Thrive and that’s what it was at Michigan state was

Building the program it’s just not the way it is anymore and you got to adapt you adapt or die I agree but I think they they’re doing that they have to but he said he he said as much oh he didn’t specifically he said he said basically

He’s going to do everything he can to get to the get to get deeper he’s going to die trying yeah I they’re they’re going to do that they’re going into the portal thank God I mean I I I think I broke that story kind of by accident by

Saying that it’s also a necessity like it had to happen eventually but there’s people that don’t I I in a koi way who who over there other than ISO who’s stubborn as hell would look at what’s happened the last couple years and say everything’s fine we don’t you know he’s

Right he’s right yeah they he’s right we don’t need to go on the portal I mean yeah come on well I’ll get you out you and I have a lot of talking to do after the show we got to get the Trey town I

Gotta go I gotta go man you me your 1048 man we can talk tomorrow I got to get the Trey towns and we got to get that off the ground here a little bit I’m not you know you will be help rep where he

Ends up and no no don’t stay out of it you have a unique position you’re in a Michigan State lobbying Tre to go anywhere if that’s what you’re asking just get me in front of him and I’ll do the lobbying you you’re I’m just I’m actually I’m just very excited to see

What he does on that power conference level given what uh he did against Power conference opponents this year he’ll be great I can’t wait to watch him and he’s Lancing thank you Tony you’re going to help facilitate that conversation and I think you thanks in advance for that he

He said yes uh Ben thank you Eric appreciate you back home we’ll be right back tomorrow Tony we got a fascinating episode I got to cover the entire on tomorrow tom Shanahan author he’s the expert foremost expert in Michigan State’s role in integration or the integration of football particular right

Well the got going really the 60s was when it hit the Apex in 66 with the 66 team national champions back toback years those were really good teams Tony 50s were you they had Willie thrower at quarterback there’s a painting a Willie thrower you know Michigan state had the first black NFL

Quarterback they put yeah Willie thrower I don’t know if I did know that I’ll show you the painting on your out it’s going to be a great one tomorrow looking forward to it Ben how many episodes has he done this the first time he lives out

Of state I’ve been asking him for like two years you’re you’re let’s I’ll come back this summer we’ll talk about where Spencer Tolson is and where hobby bayas is if he’s at an 88 Ops I’ll be giving you a what Ops would be acceptable for hobby buys at the allstar break for for

You to just say thank god oh the sixes acceptable like against the contract again I mean to be an 800 Ops no but I’m saying that like where you would be like at least it’s not this 720 I I’m not giving him a backyard

For 680 CU he was at 590 last year I’m not I’m not doing it I don’t blame you like I need by the 720 is bad it’s below below average I get it it’s slightly below average 7:30 I think is the average anyway appreciate you Tony we’ll

Get you out of here thanks Ben get us out of here big one tomorrow come check us out Tom shanan we’ll see you sp avue show He

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