Should Mets Sign JD Martinez? | Mets’d Up Podcast

Rumors are swirling that the Mets are interested in signing JD Martinez or JD Davis to a contract during spring training. Which player do you think the Mets should sign? Edwin Diaz also returned for his spring training debut and we talk about the Mets possible batting order.

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Edwin Diaz is back he looked great we got to talk about that we’ve got some rumors yeah late in the spring JD Martinez and JD Davis talk about that the batting order conversation and the spring breakout are all coming up on this episode of the messed up Podcast

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Aura thank you Aura for sponsoring today’s episode what is up Mets fans welcome back to another episode of the metup podcast I am super excited to be back in New York City even though the weather was uh beautiful in Florida it’s been great here in New York in the 20

Minutes I’ve been home since I’ve gotten off the plane but we’ve got a lot of things to talk about like we said in the intro Edwin Diaz spring breakout the JD rumors for both of them what’s the batting order going to look like everything is uh starting to get a

Little bit closer to the season a little bit more exciting a little more pressure here so excited to talk about it with you guys as always make sure you’re following us on our social media metup on Twitter Instagram and Tik Tok subscribe to the metup podcast YouTube

Channel if you have not yet already we’re approaching 4,100 subscribers appreciate you all out there and if you’re listening to us Apple podcast Spotify whatever it is download the podcast subscribe drop us a rating drop us a review really does help us as we get going into the season James how you

Holding it down in New York these last few days it’s been great I mean daylight savings got rid of seasonal depression how was how was Florida dude I had a great time uh it was great to be out in the sun played a nice round of golf

Obviously as we can see now with a little bit better of a camera got some color on my face but it’s looking great this is some of the best color I’ve gotten in a while in terms of the suntan so I’m feeling good there uh and also

Got to watch a little bit of Mets baseball got to watch Edwin Diaz make his spring training debut I might be one of the few people on the planet that saw the last pitch and the first pitch he’s thrown since uh what’s been going on it’s like me and Francisco Lindor I

Think in terms of guys who’ve seen it which is a weird feeling and the bullpen coach what’s his name Rosado oh yes and Rosado yes he seen the last yeah so I’m an elite elite uh what’s the word company company there we go Elite company here I’m still on

Florida brain but yeah let’s talk about DS first because I think in terms of actual baseball and players that are on this team that matters right now we obviously know how super important he was and at the stadium I’ll tell you the Vibes which is crazy at Clover Park

Electric they did the they did the trumpets and obviously it’s not the same at City Field they’re going to have those crazy lights this year going but like everybody got on their feet there was a noticeable Buzz that he was coming out and throwing those pitches and then

To strike out the side people were going nuts like you would think that this was a game that actually mattered I could definitely understand why it would see crazy from the outside the fact that there’s this much hoopla and Fanfare around the spring training game but I

Just think that’s how much Edwin Diaz means to this team and how strangely and bizarrely he was taken away from the Mets and Mets fans last year basically a year to the date of his return on almost the eve of the season the World Baseball Classic and just he he talked about how

Amazing the fans were like how he was kind of overcome by emotion because of how excited everybody seemed just it was nice to see and just the fact that he did come back and he was fully electric was I think the biggest thing for us Mets fans the roster everything because

He is he’s kind of like a heartbeat for this team like him and also the song I feel like a lot of people on Twitter not the Mets fans because every every Mets fan on Twitter used this song played this played this clip got Impressions out the ass

But I think outside people like oh my God you’re like doing a walk up song like you guys can still can use this song it’s like CR just corny but I don’t think a lot of people realize that this song kind of Saved Ed Diaz’s career like

This song has more meaning than like the intro it became in 2022 where when he was down on his luck when he was out on it it was was it Neo was his brother who recommended it I remember someone recommended it it happened towards the

End of the 21 season and the song then just kind of molded and became this kind of Larger than Life thing that the Mets have now but it’s like it’s something that the whole roster can lean back on like let’s just win for eighth Innings

Then we have the best guy in the world for the ninth it’s so such a such like a it’s like a warm blanket for a baseball team yeah he and he looked great too like I think he was what sitting like 97 98 uh in terms of miles per hour on the

Fastball that slider was disgusting the slider looked absolutely incredible and I was talking to our friend of the podcast wardy uh Big Met fan if you guys know him over on YouTube and he was like doing some video content out there and he goes what do you exp what do you want

To see from Edwin Diaz I’m like throw one pitch like just the mental side of things of being able to get out there throw that pitch after that knee injury just get back on the mound I think is something that is like you said almost

Going to like lift him up and lift the team up as well it’s like okay we got our guy back like now we’re ready to roll also cute moment of the week especially surrounding what happened here SNY put it out the Mets put it out Edwin Diaz’s kids were watching him

Pitch and they were going crazy videotaping him on TV like running around the house screaming it was amazing moment really really cute to see but then also on the mountain like you said he struck out the side on 15 pitches despite being down a couple ticks and the craziest thing about this

Al he struck out the side in 15 pitches only two those pitches were in the strike zone nice so he wasn’t even sharp the stuff wasn’t even there and he still just purely dominated mostly a group of marlin Starling baseball players yeah and of course we’re going to keep tabs

On him as we go throughout spring training there’s not too much else to talk about here because I mean he was great uh the other thing I guess in terms of just like Mets baseball on the field was today Carlos Mendoza also announced that Jose kintan would be the

Opening day starter I know some people felt like that was a question mark felt incredibly obvious to me how about you no me too I I almost wish they would have just like leaned into the C raing this and just like made said se you know

Be the opening day star there just try the own one be like you’re you’re we want you to be our guy this year be our guy you’re pitching really well in the spring also a little bit of news Andy Martino said the Koda Rehabilitation is going very well Mets are positive about

His progress nice I like to hear positive things about a New York pitcher coming back from an injury I like to hear that I’ll even say this like we I’ll give like 30 seconds Yankee stuff just because I think it’s funny I if he doesn’t get Tommy John I don’t think

It’s really that bad if he gets Tommy John the whole thing’s over the whole Yankee season for not and should trade Wan stto instantly yeah he has the opt out at the end of the year which is so funny if he gets Tommy John because if

He opts out the Yankees have the option to just bring him back and they have to do it but no no one’s even mentioned that I think that’s a crazy wrinkle to this but and that’s the opt out too where I think he gets like even more

Money significantly more I think I think it’s like more years tacked on the back I think it’s like a three year plus three years in the end of his deal or two years or something like that no one’s mentioned that because it’s also they don’t know they’re just he’s

Getting more opinions they think the best case scenar is like two months which I mean we we’ve heard this one before fans you know what happens when you get four opinions in March who’s that but yeah like if if he’s if he actually does pitch in June and like

Rodono okay and theyve Str Cortez well warn they’re totally fine like they could still win division they can still win the World Series don’t tell your Yankee fans friends of this that they’re totally fine let them freak out let them be upset let them get all nervous and

Everything because that that’s been I was us for a very long time but I think Yanks are okay and also I think Met’s like Katana opening day it’s just good FEA in I guess he’s earned it you know I honestly like I understand why it’s not

Tyler Mill but I I thought it would have been funny just like have the guy who’s like yeah just meme it like it Tyler Miguel starting again like chaos opening day we don’t have our actual guy that we want go to Tyler mcel again let

Him run it out there it would be three years in a row for Tyler mcel which which is shocking to think about that’s going to be like a trivia question in like 10 years on some un like Jeopardy like this Mets backend starter made three opening day starts despite not

Throwing the most Innings ever for this team who is it Tyler Miguel also just moving on now pitching we got some rumors happening for the first time in a little while and they feel to me like pure we’re going to talk about them because a lot of people are talking

About them and it’s JD Martinez and JD Davis who was actually cut by the Giants to make room on their Roser for newly signed Matt Chapman but you gave me a look you not think this is do you think they’re both or do you think it’s just the JD Martinez one

Because I think the JD Davis one I think where there’s smoke there’s fire I think the JD Martinez one is I think that’s like did did you see who’s tweeting it out it’s uh the sauce boss himself John Heyman who is literally Scott boris’s puppet like talk about

Someone whose strings are attached to a guy’s hand John heon will tweet anything that Scott Boris says so I don’t necessarily know how true the JD Martinez one is the JD Davis one I think is more realistic and I think could actually happen I don’t know where do

You stand on it the only thing for me that makes it feel not real is that the Mets went through this whole off season and they were like it’s gonna be mix bayy Vientos DJ Stewart It’s Gonna Be DH their base like they’ve been saying that

Now two weeks of poor results from I’ll be all three of those guys in spring training would make them nervous but do you think two weeks spring training results will make them nervous because the same thing is true now that was true then which is we’re still over the third

Tax threshold so every single dollar that the Met spend from here on out is being taxed 110% so a one a Oney year 10 million deal for JD Martinez or one for 12 would become one for 25 or one for 21 JD Davis I believe is still owed whoever

Picks him up $7 million for the season so it’s not really that much of a cost difference JD Davis gives you a little more what I think the Giants will still pay that because he was not claimed I think because he wasn’t claimed through waivers the the team would only have to

Pay the minimum because of that money being owned so I think the Giants are on the hook for that which is why you put a guy through waivers because you’re hoping someone will take that they then take the contract so I don’t I don’t know if that would be the case because

If it is if if you have to pay JD Davis $7 million is not coming there’s no way but if you pay him the league minimum I think that’s super possible I thought you actually did have to because I know there were issues with the Giants and apparently they’re talking about a

Grievance being filed because JD Davis won his arbitration case against the Giants and then he was immediately released which I think is a kind of first time has ever happened weird it’s a weird GI used the loophole to screw over JD Davis I’m reading an article about this now yeah wow interesting yeah

So it’s it’s a very weird case for JD right now but also the part from the money because right now the Mets tax bill is already expected to be between 77 and 80 million for 2024 for a team that is about the 500 ball club and I

Don’t think adding JD Davis or JD Martinez really puts them over the hump I think I think it’s a better chance JD Martinez does and JD Davis is also interesting because forever he was a bad thir basem but last year the Giants actually coed some pretty solid

Defensive value out of him but the bat is what fell off a cliff for the first time in his career I think that might have been just because he’s never played the full season or I don’t know maybe just the bat at the ballpark but is not really that bad for right-handed hits

Either but I I just think that if you put one of these guys on the roster that means that Mar ventos basically no more spot in 20 for six-man roster you’ve talked for months about how you want to give him a look this year you want to

Give the young guys a chance now suddenly for a DH who you don’t think is really that good either G to just take this guy off your roster I don’t I don’t think JD Davis or JD Martinez and Mark Vios can be on a roster together because

How many how many right-handed bats with no defensive value do you have no of course not the thing that makes me lean I mean like obviously JD Martinez is the better hitter I think we all know this if if it if the money didn’t matter which it doesn’t theoretically for us as

Fans but we know it does for the team JD Martinez is the pick a 100 times out of a 100 like you can’t compare the two but for me I go like one I look at JD Davis and this is gonna be a crazy maybe this

Is a hot take he’s the best third baseman on the New York Mets right now I think there’s no doubt about that and the other thing is for those Mets fans who were so in on getting Justin Turner you have to be in on JD Davis then he’s

Gonna cost less and he’s gonna probably be a similarish type player in terms of value because you got to assume that Justin Turner is not going to continue to hit 800 because he’s not going to be in Fenway he also can’t play Third Base like there’s just to me it feels like

Mets fans are like in such a a tornado such a twister right now where they’re like they See Redemption for Justin Turner like when he was coming back like this will be our chance we can finally get the good Justin Turner where on the other side with JD Davis and we

Know like he swings through the fast balls down the middle can’t hit a high pitch like we know the holes in his game and last year was a down year especially like even on the stat has side of things but he still was rocking a barrel rate

Close to 10% even the year before his Barrel rate was 16% he hits the ball so hard like there are holes in his game but he also does those fun things that like I think if his name was like Jim Smith people would be a lot more

Interested rather than jbd Davis because we know what we saw before it’s also we’ve talked a lot about Met’s Third Base positioning for the last couple of months in last year the Giants did a lot with JJ Davis where they pushed him back and put him right on the line because he

Has that can of an arm it really helped his defensive metrics he was actually one of the top third baseman in baseball in terms of OA on baseball saon and one year OA isn’t the most reliable thing in the world but it did happen like he was defensively technically statistically

2023 is Stand Out defensive third baseman which is more than you could probably say for the guys in the Mets Ross and I am worried about JD Martinez because he’s like what 36 Now 37 I think he might even be even older I think he might be no you’re right I think you’re

36 is right I think you’re right yeah 36 years old yeah and every single year for him because he was never a big play discipl guy he was always a hacker but he just did so much damage in the zone that it worked but every year you get

Older you get a little bit worse I think at making solid contact in those pitches outside the strike zone I’m just I’m always just worried about the musical chairs game with a guy like JD Martinez who’s like there’s no defensive value either like you saw him to be a DH and

On June 7th he’s hitting 215 with three homers and he’s not playing defense and he’s striking out 30% time you’re like why is this guy in the team why I pay for this guy on the team so it’s just like if someone if you don’t if you’re

Not fully ready for a guy if you’re not fully ready for the downside of this I don’t know if you could really take on the upside which I still think for J Martinez is pretty good it’s probably a guy 20 30% better in League average but

Does that does that kind of a player give the Mets enough of wins right now to make ownership be like I’m willing to double spend money if this is a playoff for us yeah that’s that’s the thing because like how how much of a difference does this make we even heard

Steve Cohen talk about this last year about like the playoff percentages and why they ended up moving Sherer in Verlander and it was like yes we still could have made the playoffs there was a chance but like from a analytical Financial standpoint like everything considered it was a smarter decision and

A better decision for our future chances at making the playoffs to get rid of these guys where like jie Martinez is going to help this team be a playoff Contender there’s no doubt about it I think but how much does that cost and the thing that also is super turning me

Off to JD Martinez right now too is it is March 13th there are teams that need power bats the Dodgers didn’t want him after he had an incredible year like there’s just there’s something to say about a guy who had a really good season and nobody wants him and I don’t know

How I put my put my finger on it but the everyone’s like everyone can’t be missing on this guy right it’s probably everything that I just said where it’s like people are like okay he’s 36 years old the plate discipline keeps getting worse and worse the quality of contacts

Amazing but at some point it is just becomes musical chairs and I’m sure also more so it’s the fact that I bet he’s just out here looking for a two-year deal he’s like I had a 900 Ops last year why why wouldn’t I get a two-year deal

But it’s just like I’m sure no one in the league is willing to do that the same reason that Jordan Montgomery’s out there he apparently still wants a six or seven-year Deal’s probably like we’ll give you three or four and he’s like no Blake Snell the qualifying offer no one

Wants to give him a long-term deal because he’s not been reliable of the course for his career so it’s like these three guys are all out there for very specific reasons I also think that’s why solar and match Atman did get their contracts like match Atman you could say

You want about him how weird he’s been the last few years but he’s a solid baseball player you put him out there you don’t feel that bad about jores hir like I don’t know how much he’s going to play but if he’s hitting in your lineup

Like he’s gonna put a lot of balls over the fence correct these three guys it’s a little bit weirder especially with the qualifying offer for Snell so I think that’s a weird thing and just I don’t know like stuck playing musical chairs got a 30% strikeout rate last year he

Was in the best offense in baseball one of the best offensive baseball in recent memory it’s just it’s it’s weird like why why is this the moment where this happens and also the fact that it was John Haymon saying the Mets are involved it’s like that’s so obviously just a

Ploy to try and get the angels to give him a two-year contract so obviously it’s just I it’s always the Angels always come back to Angels show I don’t think it’s gonna happen I also think it’s just like it’s kind of endemic to all a bunch of other stuff going on at

The Mets like what this whole offseason’s been about just trying to build it back up from the ground like not get get ahead of ourselves to try to go crazy on the free agent Market Tim brenon had a great article on the athletic for anyone that subscribed about the meds payroll situation and

It’s just the key issues in how this payroll got so for lack of a better term up over the last few years and how it feels kind of unfixable now that we just kind of have to going to have to sit in the second third tax tier for the

Next couple of seasons and the key issue and always comes back to this the Mets basically have no pre-arbitration players on this roster we’re going on years now like right now like Alvarez is the Crown Jewel we have him B and Vios are going to get time but it’s just you

Really lack this like underbelly this Foundation of what modern baseball teams want and that’s like cheap production from young athletic players and last year the Mets were in danger of being the only team in baseball to have zero pre-arbitration players in their entire opening day roster zero they wind up

Having two can you name who those two guys were last year pre-arbitration players the Mets opening day roster on opening day all right let me I’m just going to go like position by position here I don’t think it’s anybody in the infield because we spoke earlier and you

Said it’s not Alvarez or batty because they didn’t start the year up they did not so it’s Gotta Be the Tim L Castro no not not he was not pre he’s in the league for like seven years I know but I just figured like he’s played like what

Like 60 games total in those seven years like maybe that’s the weird one okay so on the pitching side T cro also had the Phantom injury before opening day remember oh that’s true that was the fake that was the fake injury oh my God yeah that’s that’s the

One that got him him and Daniel vogle back um wow who would it be one I think makes a lot of sense one it’s like you’re never gonna get it okay Tyler Mill no I think there was an injury last year and he didn’t make the Ross he wasn’t ready opening day or

Something David Peterson it was David Peterson he’s the obvious one the other one’s bizarre you’ll never get Steven NE gok oh yeah I don’t like that guy’s pitching so that’s why I tried to blank him out of my head yeah so in terms of even the guys you had in your Rost pre

Opening day last year one of them got shelled and the other one got shelled and got cut so it’s like it’s you weren’t really getting you weren’t getting any production out of players that you weren’t really paying any money which is like a shitty way to talk about

This but it’s kind of just the way Modern Baseball works now if you look at the good teams you like even like right now the dodg is the only team who are going to have less pre-arbitration players they’re opening their roster in the Mets but they just spent a billion

Dollars and they just do not care and they have they have prear guys that have graduated who still don’t make tons of money on that roster who are going to contribute a guy like Gavin Lux who most fans would laugh app he’s probably going to be like 155 260 and play defense in

Multiple places on a team that was going to go to the world series Max Muny like still makes money but it’s not crazy Will Smith is an ARB guy but he’s like one of the best catchers the league he makes not much money relatively like they still have that but you look at

Teams like the Astros the Yankees the mother Braves even the Phillies now with what they’re doing around that infield and that Bullpen like the amount of production that you get from guys really don’t make any money that you brought up through your system that gives you so much more flexibility to

Other stuff and me just haven’t been able to do that so the only way to have a susp understandably good team without spending tons of money is to get a pipeline and start doing that it’s what you have to start doing you have to sustainability and I mean the the farm

System is looking good like we’re we’re super excited with what we’ve seen down there and eventually those guys will come up and start making some you know production at this major league roster but yeah I mean you think about the core of this team that core this core was

Around in 2018 2019 and it’s now 2024 so like nobody’s cheap anymore literally every single person gets paid on this roster yeah Jeff McNeil’s big money ponzo has a big money one-year deal he’s going to need big money next year Brandon was a big money player and like

If you do sign a JD Martinez or a JD Davis that does flex both Brett baty or at least Mark vendos and possibly Brett Bailey out of a role where I think most Mets fans have probably sour them both of them by this point but you at least

If even if you get one of those guys to become a two or three win player like that gives you one of these guys to put in the roster for the next couple of years and be able to bank on that and you have more money to spend elsewhere

It’s just there’s there’s too much money given out to players who are unspectacular in this roster to really be able to do this year-over-year consistently even next year all the money coming off the books there’s gonna be like nine players on the roster one of them still going to be Starling Marte

Like if you want to compete again if you want to sign petzo Corbin Burns and jua you have to go back into the third attack threshold all of a sudden again and that’s without go getting more starting pitchers or more outfielders because you’re not going to have that

Many it’s just you need to build this thing from the bottom I think this JD Martinez JD Davis thing would be like we got so close go getting into the season with really focusing on building it from the bottom and you just you lose it the last second I don’t really think David

Sterns will this is not his Vibe I could see something like this happening in like June if the Mets were 25 and 20 they like okay let’s let’s start playing ball like we have we our playoff projections now got over 50% like let’s try and lock this in but right now in

March when we don’t know what’s gonna happen we don’t even know Koda like let’s just just chill on these guys yeah no I’m with you I I definitely lean I I think J Davis would be a good guy to bring in but also at the same time again

How much of a difference does it really make for this team and you make a good point we we got to find out what Brett batty and Mark vantos have at some point like this this this is the year throw them into the fire and if they don’t

Perform that’s when you move on you find somebody else who can so uh sucks because we like Brett batty over here and we like Vientos as well but it’s at some point these guys got to wake up a little bit like it’s just lack of a better term gotta wake up and play

Better Baseball yeah that’s it and then good time now to take this conversation move it for the guys we are talking about on the team into batting order stuff we said we wanted to talk about on Sunday but we kind had a lot to talk

About so we didn’t want that to be like an hour 20 minute episode maybe we show because it was hotter but I think like cooler headset prevailed and the two games the Mets have played now because we’re we’re recording this Wednesday afternoon guys so we’re gonna miss the

Wednesday night game but it’s like half and half Stars relievers but we’re Stars bench guys we’re gonna miss Fuji we’re gonna miss srino uh stuff but we’ll talk about that next week or maybe the stream on Friday but the two games have been played because lineup’s already out

Marte hit fifth ball times and the top and nmo Lindor Alonzo Alvarez in some way were the top four in the order so I think that is what we wanted that’s what we for this lineup did happen the other day though the Ed Diaz debut it scored

Zero runs which is kind of hilarious but I still think and I always will think like this is the best way to set the Met line up at the top yeah totally question do you do you care if the team’s not scoring runs in spring training does

That worry you at all that was a conversation I had at the stadium with some people and they were like well this team’s not scoring what’s going on I’m like get spring training like who cares definitely not at all because if you if you’re scared that A

Team’s not scoring then you shouldn’t be scared about the Mets starting pitchers right because they have the best pitching in the league like you can’t you can’t have it both ways you can’t you honestly here’s the thing spring training is funny I was listening the power went out so SNY was missing the

First couple things of the broadcast on uh Monday night Tuesday night whenever that was so I was listening to uh Keith rat Pat McCarthy on the radio and they were kind of saying like with spring training you can’t have it both ways negative you can have it both ways

Positive which is something that we like to stroke on this podcast we’re like good things like nice you’re doing good bad thing is spring training you’re working on stuff you can’t say the good doesn’t count and the bad does count you cannot say that that’s just you being a

Pessimist and you gota you got to shake the cobwebs loose a little bit but I’m I won’t say it’s like not super worrisome because like I’m not worried about Francis Lor I’m not worried about bro not worried about ponzo not worried about Francisco Alvarez but like

Starling Marte being two for 18 was one of those two being a drag bunt that is kind of a little worrisome given what he’s been doing the last few years baty can’t lift the ball but he’s hit a bunch of balls over 105 miles velocity say Mento so like that’s like that’s not

Really worry it’s like oh this these are the guys I thought they were and like Jeff M isn’t playing so in terms of the starters I’m like I I don’t know it’s it’s hard it’s hard to get tremendously worried about being like we have the best pitching in the league yeah and I

Mean coming back to the lineup now like you talked about Marte being two for 18 it’s funny how like a week or I guess when this first conversation happened people like marte’s got a lead off this guy steals bases he does this he does that it’s like the way that we need to

Build a a lineup especially for this Mets roster that like offensively it’s topheavy I think I think that’s safe to say you have to put your first three guys to get the most at bats and I know you’ve got some stats on where guys are hitting and I know people are like oh

Lindor in the two hole he has a lower batting average it’s like scratch I don’t care like it’s it’s nonsense and if you look at his career numbers a lot of his at bats in the two- hole came earlier in his career when he was a worst player so like there’s an

Entire season where he just wasn’t the greatest as like a 20-year-old old playing for the Guardians hitting two where like I just I can’t get worried about the batting average stuff when we know that these guys are just good hitters would you just said about Lindor specifically I don’t think it’s true

Because I think the thing that’s killing Lindor is two-hole batting average is the first year with the Mets where he hit for the entire year and hit 220 when he came up from the Guardians from the get-go he was he was a baller like that

60 games were good no he had one he had then it was the next year after that maybe then the next year after that they hit when they hit him in the to- hole he was really bad I looked at it because I wanted to yell at people on Twitter

Again I don’t really remember that I can’t vouch that maybe it was like a bad two months at the beginning of the second year because I think he still was just like hit the ground running overall for the full season he was like my first like Dynasty baseball darling him and

Azie Al’s like a year apart where I was like I figured that out I think that um the big thing I want to talk about right now I did a lot of research got some data I wanted to expand on something we talked about the other night where it

Was it’s significantly more important in a batting order who’s hitting ahead of you and who hits behind you and like I know that a lot of people are gonna ignore this a lot of people Are Gonna Roll their eyes like a this nerd on the messed up Podcast gonna is gonna

Try and tell me these things but it’s just if there’s so much around like this idea of protecting protection the batting order that’s been like debunked by stats over the last like decade or so where it’s just it’s an old baseball thing it makes a lot of sense in your

Brain who’s sitting behind you but it just it doesn’t really make sense on the field and the numbers anymore and if for all like real crazy nerd dork baseball people out there look up Tom Tango pitching around BS it was a it was a Fang grass Community post or hard ball

Times from like 2005 or 2006 where it just took this idea of like guys hitting behind you and guys hitting ahead of you like who’s who you’re going to see the best pitches and I want to go back to the petriella Mike petriella article I talked about also on Monday where I

Misspoke a little bit the article is actually specifically about Otani I misspoke a lot of things on Sunday I was like kind of sick recording it was just like it was Warrior podcasting the hardest job in the world but it last year across all of Major League Baseball

When the bases were empty hithers had had 720 Ops with men men on it was 753 Ops that’s not like a stark difference but it’s the whole league that’s a pretty big difference 30 points of Ops 720 versus 753 it’s basically like a a tear under League average to like a

Little bit above League average so that’s something right there and in this article that specifically about Otani he was talking about the fact that he’s going to be better because he has like protection but the protection is going to be mie bets and Freddy Freeman rather than like Will Smith and tasar Hernandez

Last year Otani had a better wo with Taylor Ward hitting behind him than Mike trap h and he saw more strikes with Taylor Ward hitting behind him compared to Mike Trout which is probably a thing of pitchers where like I want to go after this guy I don’t want to walk

Someone before Mike Trout comes up or it’s just like he’s active a hitter it doesn’t really matter so but in terms of the numbers last year in 2023 pitchers were less likely to challenge Otani with Mike Trout behind him so that idea of protection kind of goes away the biggest

Difference for Otani specifically last year was with guys on base versus the Bas is empty the base is empty yet an 888 Ops with a 146 Ops plus with men on base it was a 1,67 Ops and a 179 Ops plus not bad it’s a lot different and

It’s just because and I think a lot of factors kind of like lead into this one is like if you’re a pitcher and you’re allowing guys to get on base theoretically you’re probably worse than someone who’s just mowing everybody down in order so facing worse pitchers going

Have an high Ops plus and also last year specifically just about all the new rules holding Runners on letting guys stealing it was like it’s just so much more chaos in your mind with a guy in base I think I think that was a real

Fear and then I want to bring it back to the Mets now because this article back Pat actually did talk about ponzo a little bit because no Mets fans Mike’s a New York guy clamor for this protection for Pete Pete Alonzo last year had a better WBA with Daniel vogle back

Hitting behind him than Jeff mcneel oh don’t tell people that I’m just and but he also got more strikes with Jeff mcneel behind him which is weird he had better he had a better WBA with the guy who was getting when he was being pitched around more offense which also

Says a little thing about whoever hitting behind Pete kind of what makes him a little more comfortable also it’s hard to take everything with Pete last year because of the injury but there’s a lot more stats about P from last year from his whole career about him with

Runners on base and with the bases empty that just should Hammer home the fact that we need to put as much talent in front of p as possible but we can’t move him down the order to do it last year Pete Alonzo had a 73d of the Ops with

The base empty and a 100 WRC plus he was a League average player a League average player with nobody on base which is terrifying with men on base that was 910 and 142 with Runners on so he goes he basically goes from like who’s like a he

Basically goes from like Alec bom to Bryce Harper whether this men on base or nobody on base to give an analogy Met fans could understand that just like take shot the Phillies because is always criminally overrated maybe maybe breaks out this year who the H knows but the

Worst part by far about all this pet Lonzo stuff I just told you guys how he’s significantly better men on base and the base is empty but last year he hit four through most of the year which I’ve said in this podcast before kind of jokingly that’s the second leadoff spot

In the order last year P Alonzo had 329 played appearances with men on base and 329 played appearances with the bases empty which is not okay and maybe okay the metth lineup wasn’t that good last year we had some offensive struggles this and that but you know what Pete

Lonzo last season LED off Innings 156 times that was the second most inning at Bass to lead off an inning on the entire team only behind the actual leadoff hitter Brandon nmo and there were four guys to met last year they had at least 630 played appearances Alonzo nmo Lindor

Mcneel and allonzo had the second most played appearances leading off Innings that’s not okay you might think okay maybe it’s just because of the Mets guys had injuries guys moved around the order this and that pet Lonzo had the 47 most at Bass lead off inning in the

Whole League last year there’s 30 lead off HS in baseball and he was 47 he was in the second tier of guys leading off Innings you know why that’s because he hit fourth when you hit third you’re not leading off Innings it’s not going to happen I think that’s the biggest thing

For this meens lineup he cannot hit forth anymore we don’t have enough good hitters ahead of him and you have to do everything you can for him to have as many iats as possible with guys on base yeah I mean you we were always about that that the one 123 should include pet

Lonzo Lindor and nmo to begin with but now hearing that that leading off stat you’re swaying me a little bit more on that that fourth spot is the second lead off you’re sing me a little bit more there stat nerd let that be McNeil let mcneel hit behind Pete let Marte hit or

Yeah I guess m let mcneel go back there and then Alvarez because even because then the conversation is like Alvarez hit forth he’s peace protection but I think there’s a fear that the same thing could happen in Francisco Alvarez I don’t want Francisco Alvarez having any

Aats with men on base and also there’s one hole still in Francisco Alvarez’s game it’s probably going to be his on base percentage you guys just heard how often pet Lonzo let off Innings last year because he was in the Four Hole I don’t want fris wers leading off Innings

Either like there’s a good chance doesn’t happen that often you made that great point on Monday about most pitchers whips are not going to be Bel one so you’re always probably like you’re about G to get one guy on per inning but still the point still holds

Like don’t ever put yourself in a possibility where this could happen Alver let alvare us hit fifth let him get more accustomed to this put mcneel at four it’s gonna be hilarious that Pete mcne uh Jeff mcneel at four he’s gonna have crazy funny comments about in press conferences like I’m the cleanup

Hitter now but you have to sit him down be like doesn’t make you’re a clean up hitter get the clean up hit thing out of your head you’re still lead off get on base just get on game just don’t don’t let these guys get

On Bas get up no one on base and I will say this and maybe this will make me fans feel a little bit better too like in a world where Jeff mcneel gets up in the first inning right and he’s no longer the second lead off let’s just

Pretend now he’s actually hitting fourth with rers and scoring position McNeil puts the ball in play that’s kind of something you want when you have guys on base you want that ball in play so I don’t even hate the idea that mcneel hitting fourth again not the not the

Buck show Walter cleanup hitter not our our big Bruiser first baseman even though we know that’s a stupid idea but I don’t hate the idea of like having a high contact guy hit fourth behind Pete for the reasons you just said and if you’re not like oh no the worst case

Scenario is the guy who gets 200 hits a year has a chance to get hit get a hit with a guy on base now rather than hitting in the two-hole or whatever it’s going to be and I think this is like a bigger conversation that just baseball I

Think probably needs to have in general that doesn’t get talked about enough because you you like the Dodgers obviously that lineup is obvious a lot of teams line are very very obvious as to who’s going to hit where but it’s interesting to see like that’s very much

A raise approach that you would take hitting a McNeil forth you wouldn’t see that from a lot of the other teams in baseball and I mean like even looking at like a guy like Matt Olsen who I just wanted to pull up his numbers even with

No men on base last year 896 Ops great with men on base he had an 1105 Ops he hit 331 with men on base last year 242 without men on base it’s the classic like I can kind of pitch around and like if this is the guy who gets on base slow

On the base pass pitch around him that’s not the worst thing ever it’s a similar thing last year also what the Astros were doing when they were at their best towards the end of the year once Altuve came back and Jose Abu was like back towards like the bottom you were like

Five and six after they tried him at the top but they went Altuve who a lot of people talk about nmo where it’s like he’s too good of a power hitter now to hit it’s lead off but it’s like how many years Altuve gonna hit 25 30 home runs

Lead off about their other lead off hitter yeah George Springer how about M mie bets hitting lead off how about like all these guys hit lead off who gives a if they hit too many home runs I don’t get that I don’t get that argument

It feels like like the least amount of thinking because you’re like home run if he hits fourth they’re surely going to be men on base it’s like not necessarily totally but then after that when you had their batting order again when they’re playing at their best and when bregman

Who I think is probably their best all-around player kind of compared simly to lindorf if they’re lineup where he like high on base the Ops never going to get crazy but it’s like high on base hits the home runs when they come Kyle Tucker too don’t forget Kyle Tucker but

This is where I’m going with this Alvarez three because he is the best in the lineup he’s the biggest Rubble producer he’s the most powerful but then Tucker was the four where I think if most Baseball fans look at Kyle Tucker he’s not your prototypical for hitter at

All like by no stretch of the imagination like he’s a good he’s a good all-around player he’s kind of Compares actually more favorably Nemo he’s like if brand nmo was like supercharged and from like Texas or so or Florida like not Wyoming he’s like if brand nmo was

Playing competitive baseball when he was seven years old instead of 17 years old but that’s like that people would be like that’s unconventional lead off H because he’s more of like a 3 the on base percentage guy with like 25 30 Homer pow steals bags High batting

Average bat to ball guy but that I think is because I I don’t know the Astros is kind of moving further away from analytics I just use them anecdotally because I want to just like keep changing the image of Leo four hitters cleanup hitters and Baseball fans minds

But it’s just that we have to think about it differently and everything it just said like you especially in context of where this lineup is and how few guys this team really have Elite power the two of them being truthfully ponzo Francisco Alvarez we should be doing everything in our power as an

Organization to not allow ow them to ever get up with no men on base ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever if you hit Pete third it’s probably going to never happen he’s probably never going to lead off an inning like man who who hit who’s like a guy who

Hits third for the entire year I’d love to see how many times they let off an inning uh do do some lookups right now I mean do do Alvarez or I mean Alvarez hit fourth for a part of the Year actually no Alvarez never Jordan Alvarez hit

Fourth zero games last year for the so look up how many times he one game one game three games I at three games for Alver leading off let’s see how many times he let off an inning cuz if it’s if it’s that low like you’re on something here James shano the fact that

Pet Lonzo LED off an ending the 47th most off most times in baseball last year is a huge issue and the fact that he had as many at bats with men on base compared to no men on base that’s inexcusable can’t happen it shouldn’t happen that we should do everything we

Can to not let that ever happen again just because the p of the order isn’t going to be that great this year we’re gonna have to talk about the bomb now to close this out which just it probably isn’t like there’s if if mcneel Alvarez and Marte all of them start hitting and

Then you get something from either Bailey or Vientos and then Harrison Baylor is not the worst hitter in baseball it’s passable like you can make things happen down there and you can have some fun you can have the running gun bottom of the order Jeff McNeil could steal 10 bases do Marte could

Steal 40 bases alvare could get 30 home runs like these are we’re saying the bottom your this is like the guys four through nine like B and Vientos if if they combine for 36 home runs I’ll be happy as hell happy as a clam but it’s

Just it’s probably not going to be that good so we have to do everything we can for the top of this order to create as many runs as possible and that starts with Nemo Lindor Alonzo yeah totally and you you’re you’re hard to find a better

One two3 in the league like there are better I’m not saying they’re the best but like that puts you in the the the upper third of the top of the order and you put pressure on these pitchers to start the game like you can’t come into

This game and be like there’s an easy out in this top three of this lineup there’s not nmo makes you work at bats Lindor is obviously a beast pet Lonzo is the best power hitter in baseball it’s just I think sometimes we get obsessed with the trying to make players like fit

Fit the fit an idea like you said with brand NL like he’s developing power now the on base percentage drop yeah his on base percentage is still 360 which I think if I looked the other day on Fang graphs is like the third or fourth highest among leadoff hitters in

Baseball last year so like yeah it’s not 400 but it’s still Elite like I don’t I don’t know if people really understand what they’re saying sometimes it’s also we talked about the other day if there was another very obvious lead off option in this team like I would be all for

Brandon mooving down the order I would again yeah that’s what I’m saying I love in the Four Hole like if Drew Gilbert right now was ready to be like a 350 on base guy at the major league level or jet Williams i’ be like yeah make a Leed

Off we put brand nmo at four brand nmo at four could have like a like a 270 380 like 530 season with like 30 homers and 90 RB like that is possible but there’s just he’s too valuable right now in leadoff like I don’t want to have a bad

Leadoff hitter so I can have a good four hitter like I don’t want you can’t you can’t steal from Peter to pay Paul like you can’t do that you just can’t do it you bite off your notes despite your face how many little saying we going to

Do here this is this this kind of kind of stuff that bug show Al would actually been able to understand but that that digress yeah digress I mean yeah it’s it at the end of the day top the is good we need the bottom of the order to step up

And at some point those guys are going to have to do it um I don’t know when it’s going to be I don’t know what it’s going to take but you throw them into the fire figure it out like the bottom of the order I I’ll tell you this and

This might sound crazy but like I couldn’t care less like how they order 789 like who gives a I don’t care at all do you feel that same way no I mean just put B the nine he’s just he just he smells like a n to me but

Alvarez last year Alvarez is a call back from before he led off Innings 95 times last year and that was let get this number here Savant does not order these so I’m gon have to do quick quick shitty math uh there are how many guys in this

List he’s like right in the middle that was about it was about the 215th most often the whole league leading off you play I think like 150 something games so that’s the kind of thing where it’s just like if you’re hitting third you’re not ever going to lead off Innings but if

You’re hitting fourth you’re going to lead off plenty of innings yeah and uh I think that’s a good way to think about it that’s the Mets line up talk there for you guys last thing we’re going to mention is going to be the spring breakout I think I’m like 80% sure we’re

Going to be streaming watching this game live 80% sure I’m I’m watching a dog for a couple weeks of a friend shout out Sammy uh and it’s getting dropped off on Friday so like it could be chaos having a stream go on with a dog that’s in a

New apartment that it’s never been in before but also maybe that’s good content maybe that’s what you guys want to see is me running around trying to figure out how to take care of a dog but uh yeah the spring breakout I mean the Mets roster looks pretty interesting

There’s some good players on there we talked about it briefly that none of the big name pitchers are going to be there but as we know that’s probably because they just want them to be a little bit more focused on getting ready for the season rather than pitching in this game

But we still get to see blade Tidwell still get to see those guys around the league someone I’m particularly interested in I I’m really interested in Marco Vargas and Jeremy Rodriguez I got to see Vargas taking a bat in the eighth inning uh at Port in Port St Lucy during

The Edwin Diaz game and I got to say a little bit bigger than I thought in terms of like size and muscle like a little bit stronger than I thought he was going to look and his swing looks really nice it’s really compact he hit a

Line drive up the middle they were just playing him perfectly so it went right to a guy but someone I’m interested to see get more at bats and there’s just not a lot of tape on Jeremy Rodriguez so those are two guys specifically for me that I’m trying to watch Rodriguez is

Amazing there was a great blur about Jeremy Rodriguez and um the Fang grass top 100 prospects because he has snuck into the back of the back end some top 100 list including I believe Fang graphs and baseball perspectives who are usually kind of the sharpest of these

List but they have kind of a different gr system in the Baseball America we’ve talked about in the show it’s the Eric Logan hangan who’s who’s amazing one of the best in the business he compared Jeremy Rodriguez in terms of because he’s turning 18 soon so he’d be

Technically like a high school draft eligible player this year he compared his stock coming into the summer as someone like jet Williams or Colt Emerson someone who could be like a mid to backend Wow first first round pick with with upside and hitting upside the plate and ability to probably stick a

Short but possibly also move off depending on how how the body developed and also share the fact that he had a 19 19% Chase rate last year in the DSL 19% Chase rate is lunacy also had 93% Zone contact rate that 19% Chase rate would be the 95th percentile Major League

Baseball F was a Chase rate same as Alex bregman last year second bregman mentioned on this episode of the messed up Podcast I think he’s someone who’s interesting it’s also just so fun because now we have this guy to roof for be like we got this guy for two months

At Tommy fam mess fans whatever happens to Jeremy Rodriguez we can say this for the next three years like we we got a top bunch of prospect for two months at Tommy fam like what’s your organization doing like this is kind of things you could hold on when the M when your major

League team isn’t playing Super well and you could be like this is what we’re doing we’re better than you yeah I it’s going to be fun the spring breakout games like just in general I think you guys should watch them cool thing I think they’re going to be all available

On MLB TV no blackouts for these games so you’ll be able to watch all the teams and they start on the 14th run to the 17th and the me Mets play on the 15th 15th Friday after Friday three o’clock Friday three o’clock so keep posted on the meths up Twitter and Instagram and

All that kind of stuff as for the live stream details again I think it’s going to happen but crazier things have happened in this world so maybe I’m not gonna say 100% because I’m really bad at living up to my promise sometimes but that being said uh lots of good stuff

Going on Mets baseball World we’ll obviously keep talking with you guys about it uh anything else here to talk about James before we wrap it up I just wanted to like go like rapid fire a couple more of these spring breakout guys because just some some fun guys I

Think a lot of like Prospect at Met fans might not know like Brandon Sprout he went right to the complex last year didn’t pitch professionally he got like the full Christian Scott floor the overhaul ditch the slot ditch the sinkers throwing a fastball now with like great horizontal movement on it 18

To 19 inches of ivb for the pitching people out there it’s just like that means it’s coming up like that and apparently 100 miles an hour Nolan mle’s also thrown 100 miles an hour another draft D last year nothing El was wrong on uh Monday Jesus bayz I thought he was

A big guy he’s just a strong guy he’s a small guy he’s like a 59 like 190 kind but he apparently apparently already rumors are of 108 109 mile per hour max exit velocity and and I think it was El remember was the DSLR in the complex but

As an 18-y old kid that’s pretty insane and then Tyler Stewart he’s kind of the step behind the Hamill the vassel the Christian Scott tier of pitchers but last year between Brooklyn and Bingington 22 ra 25% strike I rate 7% walk rate like he’s someone who could be

Impressive and could be like he could be a good barometer where it’s like if he makes it to the major leagues and is effective now the Mets have pure pitching development magic where it’s like he we just got we just got a major league pitcher come out of nowhere yeah

He’s also a mountain of a human he’s 69 250 and he comes from University of Southern Mississippi from the 2022 MB draft uh Southern Miss loky a bit of a pitching Factory that’s actually where Hurston waldrip started off before he transferred to Florida uh so they’ve

They’ve got a little bit of a track record of having some pitching over the last couple seasons and guys that are flying through systems i i i truthfully have not watched I feel like any actual Tyler Stewart Clips but I know numbers are good so I’m excited to see what he

Can do in this game as well yeah a lot of fun guys think again Mets have a fun roster it’s gonna be cool to play against Nationals I think I think James Wood and Dylan Cruz are both playing in this game too which would be really fun

To watch Brady house I think as well some exciting high high draft picks uh from that Nationals team but it’s a fun event this this is again this is the best thing that Major League Baseball has done for marketing since stero so I’m really excited for it I think I like

That you keep dropping that in there the steroids line why not it they knew it was happening they were aware they were complicit but seeing save baseball that’s all I’m going to say all right guys thank you so much for listening thank you so much for watching Remember

To follow us on all our social media metup on Twitter Instagram and Tik Tok subscribe to the metup YouTube channel to see the video version of this and if you’re listening to us Apple podcast Spotify Google drop us a rating drop us a review download And subscribe follow

James on Twitter at James shano and me at giraff neck Mark with a c we’ll catch you guys on the next episode Peace Out peace out see you guys next time