From idolising others, to becoming the idol. Ryan Papenhuyzen grew up as a Rugby League tragic, he could only dream of winning a Premiership, and he has lived it and is now setting an example for the next generation of footy players.
He is a switched on, charismatic, perfectly self-aware, hardworking and an unbelievably resilient athlete.
From growing up in Kellyville in Sydney, arriving at the Melbourne Storm, learning under Billy Slater, winning a Premiership as a 22-year-old, a crushed kneecap, a dislocated ankle and returning to the top level.
🎧 The Howie Games is Australia’s #1 Sports Podcast. Where the biggest names in the world of sport go one-on-one with sports journalist Mark Howard. From ultimate highs to tear-jerking lows, Howie lifts the lid on the real stories behind the headlines. He sits down with the biggest names in Australian & world sport, finding out how they started out, what makes them tick, how they deal with the big wins and the big losses, and how they take on sport and life from here.
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Jack White’s away he’s got support I had some really high highs now I’ve had the really low lows and whatever comes with that I just got to take it and and roll with the punches I was a tragic were you I’d nearly have every NRL team’s Jersey whenever Friday night footy was whatever
Team was playing I’d throw in that Jersey and I’d go play like a little preview game in the front yard by myself I’d commentate I was obsessed with booty no doubt it’s all sort of done through my manager the start and then he’ll correspond with me being like oh
Melbourne have given you an offer and what’s your initial thought when you hear that Melbourne like like Melbourne storm not many people ever get this opportunity at 19 to go down to Melbourne and work their craft under the best fullback to ever play the game you
Dream of playing an NR Grand Final you dream of winning one but then scoring a Trina to Grand Final it was just pure joy I remember watching it and I remember there was discussions that it was like a a car crash victim very very painful straight straight away the
Doctor was just pressing on it and I could just feel fragments of bone just separating as he pushed his finger into it yeah he just looked at me and said you’ve broken your kneecap what did the X-ray look like like someone taking a baseball bat to my
Knee what was your worst day around that 8 n months Mark when I thought I’d be back you just question whether it’s ever going to be the same again why me I’ve let all these people down again it’s part of my story now I can relate to
People who have have gone through a tough time or a tough injury and if I can be be someone who goes out there and performs at a high level it just shows them that they can do something similar so well this is outstanding for the Hoy
Games I’m not a rugby league Guru I’m not Ray Warren or Matty Johns by he stretched the imagination but this man he my favorite rugby league player he’s been through a tough period over the last couple of years can’t wait to see him playing for the Melbourne storm
Again his name is Ryan penous and he joins on the ho games and we are pumped about it mate great to see how ah thanks for having me how it’s um I’ve heard big things about this podcast so it’s um yeah it’s an honor to be on here well
You sent me a really kind message when I asked you to come on but before we get into everything you’ve just sat down here in the studio it’s your day off y so what’s a typical day off for you yeah day off for me I think is um trying to
Get a bit away from footy I think we do a lot of work and a lot of video analysis and a lot of physical training um during the week so I think my day off is just trying to get away from that as much as possible and um yeah whether
It’s going to coffee or or going down the beach there um and chilling out but I love my golf as well so I’ll head out to the golf course as much as I can um yeah obviously if the bodies all right but yeah we got a good group at footy
Who get around the golf course and yeah some some good bets to get around there too where’s you where do you typically play at uh so I’m a member at Q um so I used to live up sort of in Richmond and it was very close by but now I’ve moved
Down to Bayside and I’m also a member at the Junes down in Ry so nice two very contrast in courses but yeah I like to get down there and and try score some good play some good goals what do you play off typically uh I’m off I think my
Handicap’s 11.7 right now handy yeah so I go right but um yeah not probably not I probably should be a bit better for the amount of time I’ve been putting in but who’s the person to beat at the storm oh if we’re going to go best golfer I’m going to say Nick meany
Really yeah he’s he’s just consistent he’s got a really smooth swing and yeah gets it it just gets the golf course well um Cameron monstar had a scratch around during the offseason so I would T him is unpredictable well exactly you know it he strikes me as that unpredictable I
Think he had he had 130 the next week so 71 around capital and then had 130 um when we went over to Fiji so uh yeah he he’s erratic they’re probably our to and I’d say I’d be in there to challenge him every now and then and you’re very cool
And calm collected yet explosive on the uh Rugby League arena uh have you ever thrown a club are you calm are feisty how do you approach golf yeah I think I think it’s been a whole process when I first started Golf I probably was throwing clubs and snapping clubs and
Carrying on and being but I feel like I’ve transitioned I feel like I’ve matured now I feel like I’ve got to a point where if I’m letting that affect me then um I’m not too not going too well mentally so I reckon I’ve transitioned out of it and now would
Like to say I’m quite calm on the golf course too hole in one no no hole in on ever close yeah been close a couple times um been close at my old home course back in Sydney Castle Hill yeah um I think it’s the 11th hole nice
Little path three over the water there and that’s probably the closest I’ve ever been um have you ever played in a proamp I have played in a proamp who did you get to play with we got to play with so I had our first my first proam I ever
Played we actually won right so was with uh Velton Myers was the pro he’s from Germany not crosson um and we’ve stayed in contact since which is a great story but um Dill Buckley was in the group there as well um absolute burglar Dill playing off 23
That day what a ripping podcast he’s got to Dyan friends if you haven’t listened you should outstanding podcast and Sam margin from the Rubin the lead singer right so we had a good crew that day and um Paul Velton actually I remember when we first got our proom teams I was like
Who’s this BL who’s this Pro you’re not meant to know you’re German Pro he’s probably 160 in the world but I back myself with my golf as like I watch a lot of the DP World Tour and um he’ played a few events in that and yeah we
Were sort of like oh like it’ll be a good day but like would have been good to be with like Scotty or Cam Smith or something like that but honestly like it was the best Aid I’ve had on the golf course hands down and we won it so um
That was even more special and and we’ve stayed in contact since um Velton lives over in Orlando and I was over there recently and we caught up for a b here and and hung out and yeah I guess those sort of relationships you build and still getting occasional text from Sammy
And Dill and yeah I guess we probably weren’t that close before but after that experience so yeah one from one with the prams who who have you played golf with that you thought oh my gosh I can’t believe I’m playing golf with such and such apart from Von and D apart from Von
And d and Sammy um well that’s a great question um cuz I feel like my those golf games were a while ago now I can even just gone around with go right Paul G yeah Paul G I think just the way we sort of get along and he’s obviously he’s done a
Lot in the game you know and he um I feel like he’s someone that he’s on the TV every week and he’s commentating Golf and to play with him but then to just how he treats you as a mate and wants to genine mate you better I think that’s
Something that I found really special so yeah Paul G I’ll give him a little shout out there he’s a good man you know I most people wouldn’t real I had a what a two period a short period as a golf commentator on course Channel 10 got the
Golf years ago when I was working there and it was like you had to you know go out it’s like the old Whispering rle you know he’s got a six to the pin 150 out blah blah blah blah blah um yeah interesting thing golf commentary we are
That pumped on the show to have you on Guess who’s on after you oh is it a golfer it’s a golfer no y wow uh I’m going to test your golf knowledge then okay this chap is the current US Masters champion current US Masters champion y who just signed an enormous deal with
Liv no way Johnny Ram is on the show next week we spoke to him last week we spoke to him last week what I know I know not in person he was in uh he was in jeda in Saudi Arabia we were talking about um Liv I’m a fan
Of Liv and their accessibility and we’re talking about the fact so Tommy who you met sent me an email he said mate I’ve been speaking to live the guru it is um who would you like to speak to if we could speak to one we player and I said
Johnny Ram or Phil Mickelson thinking just shoot for the stars zero chance zero chance because if you tried to get either of those two when they’re on the US PJ tour they wouldn’t like let’s be honest they would not respond to your email Tommy comes back to me three days
Later he said um Johnny Ram 6 p.m. from Saudi Arabia next Tuesday night and I’m thinking this is not happening and then I sit there I was on a few days up in cabarita in Northern New South Wales so my wife was pumped I was about to do a
Podcast on our 4 Day holiday and then I pops Johnny Ram for 50 minutes he was outstanding I’ve seen some stuff he’s done with I think he’s done some stuff with good good um so I watch a bit of good good golf and just seems like a
Genuine bloke so that’s a great get oh unbelievable it’s not quite Ryan papous but but it’s right up there so so if if if rugby league went Liv right and someone was offering you 900 mil right so Ryan P signs a 900 million deal what’s the first thing you’re buying oh
First thing I’m buying um probably a nice little holiday house Holiday House on the water where abouts um I’m probably going to go like Hawaii or something okay just just like nice little 10hour flight away um then if I spend some time in the US it’s all that
Halfway bit and you’ve probably got your private jet at this point with the 900 million well see that’s the thing here we some a lot of people don’t know I’m terrified of flying are you so if I’m buying a little jet it’s going to have
To be it’s going to have to be a big Jet right it’s going to have to have the proper yeah I’m not getting in a little 12 seedar what scares you uh turbulence I think yeah turbulence definitely and I feel like I’ve got a little cheat code that’s overcome my fear actually okay
This now for all those that because I spend a lot of time on playing and you know you really feel for the person when you’re sitting next to them and you see them um the old cliche bit gripping it or they start talking a lot or you can
See that they’re really concerned so this is the Ryan penous cheat code to overcome the of flying go all right it is a little bit expensive but buy some apple airpods the pro Max ones the ones that like go over your your ears the headphones the noise cancelling
Headphones it’s honestly saved my fear of anxiety when I’m on a flight so how bad did the fur anxiety of flight get to quite bad when there was turbulence when there’s none I’m fine but as soon as a little bit of rocking or we’re dropping
Out of the sky um yeah I’m so what does it how does it come out in you uh well I don’t really say too much or but I’m yeah I’m quite grippy hands start getting sweaty um and then just tell myself stories in my head that probably
Aren’t going to happen but yeah it gets it gets pretty bad so which is tough when you’re a professional athlete that every second week to get on plan I’m flying every second week and everyone’s like why are you playing for Melbourne well we’ll go over that why I think it’s
So special but uh yeah I guess it’s probably one of those things that I’ve had to just overcome and deal with well not really overcome because I still deal with it but yeah I think I found a way now so and so um these you’ll get a big
Sponsorship deal out of this so what are these that the big boy Apple ones yeah yeah the apple apple airpods Pro I think they’re called uh yeah noise canceling headphones so I bought them when I was traveling back from the states this time so it had like I said had quite bad
Anxiety that’s a long flight long flight so I I don’t do myself any favors I usually look at the weather map in advance and go oh it’s going to be a rough flight or it’s going to be see you’re looking at to the point where there’s going to be turbulence somewhere
Off the trench off the coast of Hawaii yeah even a flight from Melbourne to Sydney I’ll get the the old weather Zone app up and I’ll look at it and see the radar and if there’s patches of I guess going to be turbulence I’ll I’ll prepare
For it mentally and um I guess the noise cancelling just the easiest way to describe it is I think I’m Vis I think I’m the sound of things gets me anxious so I don’t think it’s the movement and dropping out of the sky I think it’s more hearing the engines hearing the
Motors hearing people panic around me that gets me so I think the noise cancelling thing just eliminated that and the easiest feeling I had to it was do you remember when you just driving around when you were a kid back in the day Dad would be in the front seat and
You’re you’re drifting off going to sleep and you just feel the rocks and the bumpiness of the of the car that’s what I can compare it to now so I’m not even thinking I’m on a flight I feel like I’m just in a car and it’s a little
Bit bumpy well that that’s a great tip to get people underway your player profile which will came out last week and we will have talked about which we haven’t done yet but uh it’ll or be out when people listening to this I will have asked you what you’re watching on
TV I I was my wife put me onto a show that I started watching on a plane it’s called yellow jackets on Netflix have you seen that okay no don’t watch it one it’s horror but it’s about a girls uh football team a girl soccer team from
America it’s it’s not true um and they they’re all in a plane crash and the visual representation of the plane crash to so to me watching TV and movies the worst plane crash that you think would be realistic oh Tom when he it Cast Away
When he ends up on the island yeah this Yellow Jacket’s plane crash is whole Next Level frightening plane crash so do not watch it okay yeah won’t watch it you watch on a plane too that’s yeah I watched it on a plane I’m like why is my
Wife telling me to watch this now when when I came in here because I was stuck on the Westgate um so you actually got here earlier than me you had your iPad out and your phone and you were taking notes this is up to you how much you
Want to tell me about what’s going on here I I did a podcast a while ago with a chap called Harry gider boxer he’s big notetaker big notetaker um Nat F the AFL football is a big Note Taker and then he looks back on the
Notes he took a year ago to see how he’s progressed in life so at this stage a year ago he made might have been struggling with a in his life and he refers back to that and now a year later is he still struggleing that how he’s
Worked through it why are you taking notes firstly yeah I think it’s probably a combination of both both those things really I think I like taking the notes to become a bit more self-aware um and it’s it’s pretty similar to fy’s Strate I think it’s it’s pretty cool to look
Back on what I’ve written whether it’s on my iPad or in a journal and um I keep all my journals from when I first moved down that’s when I started 2017 and some of the things I wrote there and some of the people I thanked um I just like
Taken a photo of it and sent it to them and just seeing the impact that they’ve had now and that’s nice I I just think it’s really good cool to I don’t know I feel like my memory is not that great um and it’s just one way I can look back
And yeah I guess reflect on the journey and um I guess be more in the present if I’m taking notes now I I feel like it’s getting my feelings out into a page or if I’ve got something I really want to say and I might forget it it’s there and
Yeah I just feel like it’s it’s always going to be there digitally or whether it’s on paper um and then I think my big thing in life is I want to help people and if I can document my journey along the way then it will be easier to relate
To someone who’s going through a rough period or relating to a 18-year-old who’s just moved down to Melbourne and um finding a little bit tough rather than hopefully I’ve experienced a lot from there but I can go back to that and be like wow I did feel quite vulnerable
In that moment and um yeah I feel like it’s probably only something I’ve done since I moved to Melbourne and and the last couple years I’ve I’ve picked up a bit more strongly of of how I want to go about it and yeah I feel like it helps
Me and puts me in a good spot in the future where I might be able to help others so yeah that’s why I do it it’s a it’s a beautiful description of doing it and you’re obviously really in touch with your emotions before I ask you to
Read something off that which is up to you if you want to when you talk about being present I went through a period last year I came back from India from the IP and I couldn’t sleep I was really struggling to sleep and a couple of
People put me onto a meditation app and it was all about being present what does it mean to you to be present cuz it’s it’s a it’s a bit of a it’s a bit of a buzz word it is a buzz word it is yeah it’s hard to I think it
Means different things to different people yep no I agree and I think I think being present to me is obviously being able to connect with someone I think um yeah a lot of the time if you’ve got something preoccupied ideas of someone or or the way they’re going
To go about things you might go in with a different perspective and um probably not take it for what it actually is and yeah being present for me is is disregarding things that have happened and and it’s a new page so um whether it’s me talking to you today or or me
Meeting someone out on the street um you can hear things about someone but it’s like you’ve got to take it for what it is and just go on that Journey you might you might take things out of that you might learn things from it and like I
Said I’ve learned a new show not to watch today so yeah oh you know don’t be watching Yellow Jackets but but I think if you can be present you are so open to learning and you are so open to to thinking about things a different way
That’s my perspective of it so in a rugby league perspective it’s you know being present or meditation or mental preparation do do you have a a a a mental routine you go through before you run out at Amy park to play for the store yeah yeah so I think my
Preparation’s probably changed a lot since I first started I used to just think it was game day I used to think I can do whatever I wanted throughout the week and game day I’ll go through my routine and that’ll get me good shape and I probably got caught in a bit of a
False sense of security with that I had quite a bit of success early on in my career and and thought that’s the way it was and it probably wasn’t until the last couple years with what I’ve experienced that um I’ve realized preparation is not just that one day
It’s it’s months of work it’s those little habits that you build into your routin teens and uh yeah I guess now I’m in a spot where I can confidently say I prepare well um cuz I know what preparation looks like it’s not just that day it’s the work you do before so
Yeah I feel like your idea of it changes over time and it’s I’m still not perfect with my preparation but I feel like I’m doing the right things to put things in place and and I’m actively trying to grow and learn and and be someone who
Yeah at the end of the day can have a really good preparation and like like I said before help someone who might not or just be a good role model for someone who’s not doing it too well hold that thought because we’ll get later on how
You do prepare okay you’ve got your iPad there are you happy to read anything off there you don’t have to you can completely say no to me this is a freshy this is a fresh one I literally my laptop just broke down so so you’ve got
Your new Apple got my new Apple I think I think if you haven’t already got an Apple deal by the end of this podcast you’ve plugged two of their products already now next year and now you’re holding up your true I think you’re a chance so I
Literally the only notes I’ve got on this are like a couple you know what I’m just going to do it m you if you’re comfortable no you know what I think it’s it’s worth getting out there so this is my diary entry for yesterday
Okay so it’s a it’s a little one but I thought you know what it’s first day with the iPad I’m going to write it down I’ve got plenty of my notes um but I wrote literally wrote this last night so first day with the iPad today was a long
Day and there were times I felt flat and not ready to have energy I was conscious of needing to have good vibes and bring my teammates with me but I also think I was quite focused what do I need to do to feel comfortable for Friday’s
Game question mark and that’s for me to answer today so okay just like little things like that that get me isn’t it yeah it’s fantastic it’s um it’s something a little bit different but I think a lot of really successful people do this type of thing yeah it’s something that I’m quite I
Guess I used to be scared of what I wrote down cuz I’m like what if someone reads it but I’m also like it’s so Raw it’s so with how I’m feeling it’s so helps me understand that day exactly how I’m feeling and I guess now it’s
Just about trying to like I said I’m quite in touch with my emotions but trying to use different words or trying to describe it in a way that I can go bang that’s exactly how I felt you know and um yeah that was last night just sitting there just acknowledging that
Yeah I probably didn’t feel the way I needed to but I also acknowledged that I needed to be a good leader I needed to probably send off some better Vibes and how can I do that better next time how can I be better a leader these next few
Days for us to prepare best for Friday night’s game so it’s interesting you say that you’re a bit or in your words what did you say you were focused on yourself I was yeah I was focused on myself but I was also self-aware I was quite what I have you had
There were times I felt flat and not ready to have energy I was conscious of needing to have good vibes and bring my teammates with me but I think I was also quite focused on myself which I think as you you go on and as you experience
Things I think the best leaders are the ones who bring their teammates with me or with you and yeah I think in that moment I’ve probably felt a lot of myself and was just trying to focus on myself but I need to provide value and show those guys that know they they’re
Just as important as what my job is you know and um yeah I think that’s what I realized yesterday so when this has come out you all played the Panthers on Friday night the first game of the season for the Melbourne storm at home I read your coach in the paper yesterday
Saying occasionally your team can win two in a row but in his eyes three in a row makes them an extremely special football team from a external View and you’ve you know obviously played against them what is it about that particular rugby league team that has enabled them to dominate a
Really even competition yeah it’s quite amazing what they’ve been doing Fair especially the father Sun thing fascinating yeah crazy amazing imagine imagine when you came in and we were talking about cricket and I said I occasionally play with a young BL imagine the coach coaching his son
Imagine the love and joy that must bring those two gentlemen and and I’ve been quite fortunate I’ve been fortunate enough I’ve played with Nathan and we did school boys together in 2015 I think it was and um like Ivan was obviously there watching Nath and I think Ivan was
He’s had a pretty rough coaching career to be honest before this point and he was getting hammered he was getting hammered in the media um but he would still put himself out there go watch na play talk to all the parents I know the impact that he’s had on my parents and
Um the way he sort of came across to them and introduced himself and he was just like a normal dad you know so you see that side of him and him getting hammmer in the the metor and then coming out years later and having a three Pat
With his son it’s like well crazy it’s an amazing story and um yeah I guess having to have dealt with Nathan Ivan a few times it’s you genuinely feel good for him um yeah you know sort of what they’ve gone through and how they’ve been hammered and it’s quite easy for
The media to jump on board if father’s coaching your son and picking him every week but nath’s done that work now he’s done all the craft to get to where he is and and to be one of the most dominant halfbacks in the competition last year’s Grand Final was like un and
Then say I’m going to win this game by myself yeah well I turned it off with 20 minutes to go cuz I was like I don’t really want to see the celebrations I just you know what the game’s over it was a good game but they’re done and
Then yeah got a message from me being like it ain’t over and so you could watch the game but had no interest in the celebrations pretty much yeah okay yeah I could watch the game and just yeah I just I don’t know there’s something about it where I just thought
There was another missed opportunity and yeah one of those ones where I’ll be hungry for it again but I just can’t watch it so no I think I think that what they do well is they’ve adapted to the times of the game they haven’t just kept
The same way of playing three years in a row um they’ve changed the game and they’ve got teams chasing them now to to play their style and I think that’s one thing that you got to give the the Coach credit for is you know he didn’t just
Rest on his Laurels he was let’s make this team better how can we be better what Squad have we got all right let’s play this way now and I think the way they’ve adapted to the times and kept their sort of Basics and fundamentals the same which is I think quite
Important but yeah just the way they’re going about it and with the rule changes and yeah now they’ve sort of come out on top and everyone’s chasing their tail the name penous where does that come from what’s the origin of it’s dutch origin is it dut yes yeah so my
Obviously dad’s side of the family my Opa um yeah I think he pretty much he worked on ships and met my nan on one of the ships she Dutch or not she’s a is’s a pommy right so they met and then yeah came to Australia and yeah had my dad so
Yeah Ping’s in Dutch it’s a when you’re here um as I say this to most guests but I the last two days I’ve immersed myself in you and I’m not a massive rugby leag uh Watcher I watch the storm um and I I I wasn’t joking when I said that I watch
When you’re playing because I just love the way you are out in the field and I love you even more now after having a 15minute chat with you here um but it’s name when uh Rabel said ping and there Dan G’s got the same thing ping it’s
Just a name that exp it’s a good name for commentary penous yeah no it does it’s um it’s quite cool though because I remember when I first was coming through and um you’d play your B main under 16s in an afternoon and you’d score a try and the commentator would have no clue
How to say it he’s like oh no and you’d have all these different versions but I think what’s really cool about it now is like he’ll walk the streets and someone say oh paping and they can say it and I I get a kick out of that because I think
It’s probably a long time where anyone in my family like whether it’s teachers at school or it’s how to spell it too how to spell it and how to say it and it’s like well I one thing that I think is really cool now is actually people
Know how to say it and and my Opa probably sits there God love him he’s he’s in a nursing home now but like he’d just be so proud whenever he’d go over there imagine when he came out and no one could pronounce his name and now
That yeah yeah so it’s um that’s a really cool feeling to to be able to I guess put your name on the map and um yeah for people to to say it correctly and I get a really big kick out of that and yeah I guess they’ll be proud as
Well but yeah early early days it was um was quite embarrassing you nearly didn’t want to score so your name didn’t get what type of stuff what type of Butchery did you get all sorts yeah everything really it’s people would just stop at Pat really because they go I’ve got no clue
How to say this but um yes the poor Grand announcers they they probably had a hard time back in the day and yeah now I’m just grateful that everyone knows everyone knows how to say it yeah so you played a lot of sport growing up yeah I
I saw some um pictures in a pcid with Channel 9 and I think you had a cricket bat in hand so uh compare yourself to a modern Australian cricket of what did you bet did you ball a solid or a dashing me Lord or a big liing ripping
Spin what were you I’m probably a self self-proclaimed allrounder Aller bowling heat or bowling bowling heat but I could I could come back on and Bowl off spin that was my thing I just I’d open the bowling and bowl quick um whether that was consistent I think the speed was
Consistent but Direction definitely not um there definitely few wides and few leg buyers but um but then you’d come on later in the Innings and roll out the offies well I could yeah I could if we needed a bit of a change up i’ come out
Roll the offies but uh to tell a story about my cricketing cricke my days I went to a CL where they sort of Mark you up on how you’re going You’re batting you’re bowling and thought I was doing all right went to the Nets and smacked a
Few balls around and um bowled pretty well and I remember they pulled me over after and they said mate there’s a new game that we think you’d be good at but test Cricket’s not it mate we think you’d be right at T20 straight the IPL
Straight to the IPL but I don’t think it was too big when I was when I was playing back in the day um I sort of took that as a bit of an insult I was like oh like I thought I was going all right but
Um yeah I I just had no patience I’d go out there and smack the ball and yeah it’d be 3 m outside off and I’d run over and try belt it ever have a day out where you made a big score or got a bag of wickets yeah yeah you know I I
Probably got more wickets than big scores um I probably was more bit of a bowler cuz you know sort of at that age when you’re a bit younger if you bowl a bit of Express you you don’t need to be bowling too consistent to pick up
Wickets um but no I I had some really memorable um scores never actually got a Century I think we were sort of retiring or our team would be bowled out by the time he got to 100 what about a bag of we have you did you get one of those
Tropies with the with the claw with the ball the ball in it yeah got that nice six far six good work I think it was it was six for 6 for 14 or something like that good numbers so uh great numbers that was fun but I probably probably
Most memorable one was a a 50 with one of my best mates so he wasn’t that good at Cricket but like we just were out there one day Bernie Main um back in Sydney and yeah we I think the thing about our team was there’d always be one
Or two that just score and everyone else gets bowled out for duck so I watch a lot of G I see a bit of that so I reckon we we had a I got a 50 he got a 50 we obviously got to raise about at the same
Time shaking hands and just best mates who like played rugby league together and then here we are playing Cricket together and um it was probably division 2 or or something like that but one of those moments where you sort of look back on and I’ve still got the
Scorecards of those cuz I’m like it was just one of those nostalgic feelings of like it wasn’t rugby league it was something else and um yeah a nice little H partnership with my best mate um to win a game so that was probably one of
Them and I’d love to play cricket like I love to still go down to the Nets I love to still do all of that because like I said it’s quite nostalgic and I get a kick out of it but I also think there’s there’s different learnings you can get
From different sports and you can put it back into your own so love Cricket um yeah I think I’ll go back and play it once I’m retired sure there’s a spot for you the might head SE go I have a very um short window to play cuz I’m away for
Most of the summer but whenever I’m home I try and play play it on Saturday and um we were batting and uh we were playing out at Wallington which is down in my part of the world and my new Baseline my I got home um and my wife
Said how’d you go Cricket cuz we were batting I said great I didn’t do my carf so that’s my current Baseline at the moment at the moment um I’ve got an issue with finals coming up and the NFL starting at the same time so i’ got a
Bit of a rostering issue as well um rugby league who what’s what did you play underw what’s the first actual organized game you would have played and who was it for uh under Sixers Sixers under Sixers Kellyville Bush Rangers right where’s Kellyville uh so that’s site Northwestern Sydney so Kellyville
Bush Rangers yeah Ned Kelly um he was our mascot and yeah we sort of I guess paramat ills Now train out of there uhhuh so they obious used to train the heart of par matter and now they’ve come out to to Kellyville and I played my first ever Junior rugby league game on
That field that they train at now so cool and and can you remember your first game or you don’t remember no no I can’t remember the first game um by all accounts I was a bit of a suck the first few years um think I’d yeah sort of just
Dab as a coach I thought if I could just throw tantrum on the field he’d come over and save me so uh yeah I guess if you’re probably someone watching my early days of footy you’re probably thinking this bl’s never going to make it but but I think those experiences
Make you stronger and um yeah here I am now so yeah Kellyville Bush Rangers so I often ask this to the guest night always use this comparison and one of them’s really happy with a comparison one of them’s a bit flat with a comparison you’ll be able to figure it
Out Ricky Ponting was always going to play cricket for Australia he was a standout he made runs right from the start Justin Langer not so much had to work and grind the whole way and hello to both of those great men were you a standout Junior footballer where the
Opposition were like oh we’re playing that Ryan whatever his surname is this week or not um there’s nope of yeah no it’s it’s a tough question I I wouldn’t think so I think I always had a little bit of talent um but once again not
Enough to say he’s going to make it you know I so you weren’t it wasn’t right this kid’s always going to play I don’t think so and and you obviously you hear um I guess parents with kids that you played with back in the day say oh he
Was always going to make it but yeah I I don’t think so and um um yeah I wasn’t I didn’t make any sides during primary school or anything you know kids make your sort of New South Bales and that wasn’t you Victoria that wasn’t me no so
Um I played a bit of touch footy and that’s probably where I got my I guess confidence that oh I’m actually can sort of play this game but rugby league I was like oh like I’ll do it it’s fun I love it but I don’t think I
Don’t think it’s sort of going to be anything obviously had dreams and and um wanted to but I think not having that pressure and not being like a prodigy I think that’s probably helped me and were you a were you a lover of the game did you
Watch it did you have posters on your wall yeah I was a tragic I I um I’d nearly have every NRL team’s Jersey um whenever Friday night footy was whatever team was playing I’d throw in that Jersey and I’d go play like a little preview game in the front yard by myself
I’d commentate I’d um have footy cards in my room whenever mom sent me to my room cuz was in trouble I’d pull them out and have a little 13 V3 with the footy cards and and commentate that and if she took the footy cards away I’d get
The mar balls out and pretend they were players so it was just all she couldn’t stop you then I was obsessed I was obsessed with footy no doubt um yeah probably had a few teams I just liked players I liked people who um which players did you like well I like the
Guys who were probably bit more like me a bit smaller probably weren’t your typical NRL player but they were quick um they were lightning so I think Benny Barber was one that stands out um when he was had that run for the Bulldogs um Brett camoy he actually played for the
Melbourne storm um but I didn’t know that when I was a kid I’d sort of liked him when he was at the Sharks and then when he went to the Bulldogs um but yeah I just like the way they go about it they were little um they weren’t scared
To throw themsel in there and yeah I guess that’s probably my first realization that oh like you actually can make it if you’re you’re not that big and you get people along the journey saying yeah like you’re you’re going to be too small you need to put on weight but
I just think that’s a bit of an excuse to be fair I think if you’re if you’re willing and able you’ll find a way and um yeah I was lucky enough that I had some some good I guess people around me to nurture me and take me on that
Journey with them and not necessarily push me hard because I think I think there’s a real fine balance of being a being pushed hard but then also just being nurtured in a way to like you can make it this is what you have to do but
Then they step away and I think that’s something that I’ve found really important is I didn’t have someone that had many all the time it was like this these are the tools this is what you’ll probably figure out throw me into there and then I got to figure it out for
Myself and then I’ve just sort of built from there but um did did you like can you remember meeting as a kid I’m sure you came across them professional rugby league players did did you meet these guys yeah yeah so I’m at uh I think Nathan High Marsh might to
Come out to one of our trainings bigy big Hy um when I was a kid would that be Stars in Your Eyes for you yeah just one of those moments where you’re like wow these guys are real you know and um like they’re just they’re just cool dudes
Like I was a little 8-year-old kid and I think I was wearing my sharks Jersey and Hy come out to training and I don’t know if his brother might have been at sharks or or something like that but like he didn’t treat me any differently you know and I think that’s probably something
I’ve come to realize is like I don’t care who you go for you know if you’re not a Melbourne storm fan if you’re a rugby league fan I I get a massive kick out of that and um yeah I was one of those kids so I still feel like once it
Goes it ties back to the journaling I I’d really try to relate to how I felt when I was a kid and and when we go back and and do things with the junior clubs um I try to put myself back in those shoes because yeah it’s a moment where
You don’t have to do much like even just being there they get such a great kick out of it but and what’s that like when a kid comes up to you and has you know the number one storm Jersey on his back and he and he looks up to Ryan penham oh
I i’ I love it you you sort of see the look in their eyes too it’s like they’re just staring at you with their Jersey and it’s like it’s such a great feeling and I try acknowledge that every time I see a number one or or paping on the
Back I thank them for you know for doing it and um yeah I guess it’s probably one of those things where it’s it’s just a jersey but even with a haircut or a mullet and you sort of hear people um say oh my son got a haircut because of
You and I just think it’s a really cool feeling cuz I I want to be a role model and I want to be someone who can give back and and share my experiences for the hope that there might be a little kid back in Kellyville at the moment
That’s liking his footy but it is a bit rough for him or he has been told he’s too small and and if I can be that guy for them to express themselves and want to be themselves and and just want to be better in life in general then yeah I
Think that’s something that I get the most sort of gratitude out of and um yeah something I’d like to strive for for the rest of my career I love it talking about the mullet I was just thinking about this on the way up who my favorite Mallet wearers are in sport do
You look at someone else’s Mallet because yours Elite do you look at someone else do and think right that that’s my next step that I’ve got to get to to reach the full mullet standard yeah I think I think it’s hard not to go past um B Linka he just long and Luscious
Isn’t it luscious it’s it’s well kept it it’s flowing it’s bouncy yeah he just I don’t know what he does to I don’t know what he feeds it I don’t know um it’s quite impr but I think he’s probably the the gold standard um for sport think you
Look at the live golf like was saying cam Smith yes he’s he so you’ve got two of mine you got two of mine he’s he’s a bit different bit rough around the edges bit curly um bit short but I think he’s he’s got a pretty impressive one and I
Think the thing I like about is like he’s at the top of his sport and he’s rocking it you know like there’s something about it there I don’t know me personally this like probably goes a little bit deeper here but I think it gives you that confidence to express yourself
The hair the hair yeah that’s probably what I’ve found and and what you see from kids getting it and that’s the feedback I’ve got from parents is like he being more himself he’s you know he’s expressing himself and I wouldn’t have been all louder at school so there’s part of me
That’s I don’t know if it’s resentment or what not but I’m just like I get why school’s there and I get the discipline part of things and I know it’s probably not the most presentable haircut you can have and I understand that but if you
Can give a kid a license to be who they want to be and then explore things and I think that’s just a great power to have and and I probably realized that once I got the Mallet so for me I I was thinking top three mullets in Australian
Sport in no particular order was Smith Cameron Smith Bailey and Pap andh Ryan I’ll take yeah take I got one extra for you that that really Thrills me because this chap has a Australian partner and that that’s where he’s picked it up and he used the term do you
Have any interest in Formula 1 yeah valry botus he rocks real rude not as lengthy and flowing as yours in basilo but a short with a real flick at the back and you occasionally see him wearing a VB Singler Mr from Scandinavia I appreciate V’s mullet I appreciate V’s
I think he was he rocking it when they come down under last time I seen it I wonder if he’s growing it out for this one com I don’t know well I didn’t I only saw him on his helmet in barain last week but he’s definitely rocking it
In last year’s drive to survive um if you weren’t going to be a rugby league player you’re obviously a really well spoken and I’m sure a clever chap did was there something you wanted to do with your life it’s a great question I I think it would have I think it’s varied
Since I’ve started footy um I don’t think I would have been a confident speaker straight out of school I I think take footy out of the equation I think I would have probably been a teacher MH um with a mallet the kids would loved you well I don’t know if the mullet would
Have come around you know mate you might not have expressed I think they would have loved Mr penous yeah no so I don’t know probably a teacher my mom’s a teacher I feel like it’s only natural um I really liked our culture at our school where a lot of the ex- students went
Back and taught and um it’s probably only now I see the value of of teachers and how important their role is into shaping a kid’s a kid’s future you know just being someone that might believe in them a little bit more than what their parents do or or mentors do and um yeah
I could probably see myself doing that but I think I’ve leared a lot from playing footy and and what I want out of it and ideally now I think one I don’t think I’d like to work as hard as what I do now once I finished footy I’d like to
Probably have things in place whether that’s um some investment set up or just being able to I be a mentor or be sort of a life coach where I can I can direct my energy where that I’ve learned everything I’ve learned into something that’s going to make someone else better and that is
Sort of like a teacher I guess so I think it’s always been there of of wanting to help people and um in what capacity I don’t know but I think I’d like to get to a spot where I still have the freedom that I have that I can keep
Learning and exploring different things but then be able to give back and teach or or be a mentor or um yeah have a successful business where I can guide people through that and I think that’s where I’m learning at the moment is um the whole business side of things and
Yeah wanting to be better and um yeah putting things in place so I can I can do that and I don’t have to worry about having a to go to a 9 to-5 and and do all that i’ like to to educate myself enough to be able to help and in what
Capacity still trying to figure it out I reckon any organization or individual would be very lucky to have you um got a few notes here that um Tommy put together I’m not I’m not typically big on notes um but there’s some ones here that I just want to
Certain games or periods I want to touch on with you to sort of bring out your full story of success and then some real real real tough times probably as tough times any athlete in Australia in the last couple of years so the West Tigers signed as a
16-year-old so like what happens on day one is that is that with the full squad or is that with the junior program or you’re 16 and you’re little as it is I’d imagine I think so probably I think my first contract yeah it would have been
16 it would have been like three grand or something just tiny but um it was like an under 20s contract so I never actually to train with the NRL Squad it was always sort of Juniors 20s um but I had probably three years in that 20
System and yeah like I was didn’t really know fo like I knew what to how to play it obviously I’d played it for a while but I didn’t understand what it took I thought what I’d done to get me to that point was going to be enough and I could just
Keep doing that week in week out and um yeah then had a few injuries during 20s I did a few hamstrings um probably played five or six games in two years and uh I guess because I was preoccupied with University and um home yeah I was studying I was studying um physical
Activity and health science at ACU so I was doing that Str Catholic University yeah so I was studying and then I think because I was preoccupied with other things like um whether that was that was work or uni or being with my family I don’t think I put enough energy into to
Footy and what it took to be a professional athlete so I probably just crued through those those years and um probably felt a little bit sorry for myself of I’m just getting injured it’s it’s not my fault there’s nothing more I can be doing you
Know and um yeah and just sort of going through the motions and I think that’s something that obviously we get on onto the journey but I think moving down to Melbourne’s changed my whole perspective on things but um I dead set in that period when I was signed as a
16-year-old I still thought I’d just Cruise in the first grade didn’t think I’d make a career out of it but I thought you know I’ll play a few games and um you just think that’s how the path is and I probably didn’t have anyone before me that I could get a
Gauge off until I until until I moved down to Melbourne but yeah that’s sort of how it come about signed at 16 um a few 20s games and and then what happens does someone say at um West you’re not for us or no it’s a very different
System so we obviously have a draft in the AFL you have no choice of where you’re going how did it work in your world so how do you end up from West have a drink of your what what what did Tommy bring you in ice decaf latte ice
Decaf latte decaf train don’t judge mullet wearing ice decaf latte Tommy is that what we got Shuffle to your right oh just okay I’ll Shuffle to my right okay you mustn’t have got my best side on the camera so what happens yeah so it’s not it’s it’s funny like it’s not a
Draft it’s a pretty much a free agent so as soon as you come off contract there’s about so let’s say 20 that would have been 2016 17 so when you got a year left on your contract you’re able to negotiate with other teams before that it’s only the
Club you’re at you’re allowed to negotiate so that happens in November one November one’s the date um so yeah pretty much I was coming off contract or I still had another year at the Tigers were you getting love from the Tigers in this early contract situation they they
Didn’t they didn’t push me out the door or anything by no means I think um they were actually quite respectful with how they went about it and and they put their trust in me which I I respect massively and I’m forever grateful for that they they did that
But excuse me they they put their trust into me um to be at the club and it just got to a stage where I was coming off contract and tigers put an offer to Reign me so um I’m not sure the figures of it but it was it was a three-year contract
Um sign on and then Melbourne just come knocking at the the door being like Oh we we want to sign you as well and and when it’s Melbourne yeah does that mean you get a call from Craig Bellamy or no it’s a Administration style situation it’s all sort of done through my manager
The start so your manager Clinton shoski okay so he um yeah they sort of I guess talk and then he’ll correspond with me being like Oh Melbourne have given you an offer and it’s like what’s your initial thought when you hear that yeah like Melbourne like like Melbourne storm he is yeah I
Was like what and and Clinton obviously he played a massive career playing rugby league and um I think he was even a bit shocked being like yeah like Melbourne like we should probably take this you know and because they’ve got such a great rap for turning average NRL
Players into regular first graders that really appealed to me in the stage of life I was and uh it wasn’t just that it was the mentors I was going to be taught under you know you got Billy Slater Cooper Cameron Smith Craig Bellamy incred the BR Brothers cusis the list
Goes on um and it was I don’t think I realized at the time I was like I’ve always admired the storm from AF far because of how successful they’ve been but I think from talking to Clinton he just reassured me that like not many people ever get this opportunity at 19 I
Think it was 18 at the time 18 to go down to Melbourne and work their craft under the best fullback to ever play the game and I was like that is so true and there was a few rumors at the time there was they were trying to sign a few other
The fullbacks in that position that were my age and it was sort of like a that probably kicked me in gear a little bit being like no like [ __ ] that like I want that you know and just got to a decision where um Melbourne matched the Tigers
Offer and with Mom and Dad’s blessing they just said you’ve got to like you’ve got to do it I think they understood the the um enormity of it as well and yeah just from there it was bang you you have a meeting with Craig and Frank and um so
That that meeting he Craig came on this show I reckon it was in the back of Co because it was via Zoom yeah we were in lockdown he was fantastic but I’ll never forget we often get the guest on Zoom to record their end of the conversation on the phone
It’s not a big detail and then they WhatsApp me through the audio he he had to get someone from the club to come around his joint to get the file out of his phone to send it through to me but take away from that conversation and
He’s he’s a modest man and I’ll ask you more about him but his answer to the question why have you been so good and been able to turn Journeymen flks that have been left out of other clubs injured players into Elite parts of a team and he said I’m very clear on each
Player’s exact role I tell them exactly what they want them to do if they’re up to that standard to play that role they’ll get a game and they’ll fit in with the system so what did he say he wanted from you and you know he’s obviously influential in you getting
Down there like what was he seeing in you yeah I I don’t think he ever guaranteed anything and I I think that was probably what I needed was no mate you’ve got to work hard um you work hard you get your Awards and he’s very big on
That um he’s got a quote that he goes by as sort of that hard work put you where the good luck can find you and ‘s he’s and he’s yeah I guess you see him do that but um that meeting we had it was like oh you’re not guaranteed to play
First grade but come down here we got a few good mentors and um you work hard and you probably won’t work as hard as ever in your life but we think you can get something out of it and I was like you know what there’s that little bit
There’s that little Drive in me that I probably haven’t achieved what I needed to achieve and um the premiership’s always been a massive goal and I thought you know what I think I can do that at Melbourne whether I get my chance or not I don’t know if I’ll ever play first
Grade but I think I’m going to get my best by going down there and so when you signed on if if Billy was the number one fullback where were you in the list of fullbacks yeah gee pretty far down so you sort of had Billy um Jerome Hughes who’s now a
Halfback was was a fullback um Scott drinkwater who’s the main fullback at the Cowboys up in North Queensland now uh then there was probably me so four fourth Str yeah fourth string so you you roll down there you turn up for your first day this little fella and you’ve got
Smith yeah Kon um Slater and Bellamy like what’s your first thoughts when you roll out on the track for the first time well it probably happened a few weeks before before I actually moved down there was I remember I hadn’t Night Out in Sydney it would have been Friday
Night or something went to Hillside Castle Hill there um with a few boys I would have just freshly turn 18 and um I remember waking up on Saturday morning to a call and I was like what’s going on here I was a little bit Dusty sort of picked
It up answered it hey mate it’s Billy Slater from the storm um heard you coming down mate can’t wait to work with you I was like I got to be tripping this got to be a dream this got to be some sort of this is to you like wow this is
Billy slap yeah I I remember I remember just turning to my side picking up my phone off the bed being like what the [ __ ] like no way he’s calling me anyway like my voice was like cracking and I was just so nervous I was like oh yeah
Hey hey mate yeah like looking forward to it and um you say if you need anything you got my number now give me a buzz and um like is an 18year old kid who probably hasn’t had the best run the past few years and let alone speak to
First graders you know you might cross him in the passway pathway at the Tigers there but um to get a phone call from the kangaroos fullback the Melbourne storm winning Premiership Clive Churchill met winning fullback um that was that was pretty cool and then yeah fast forward a few weeks later and I
Think they just had World Cup so they didn’t get back till January but um it was probably more the staff impact you know you got the head physio you got the head strength and conditioner you got the head speed um coordinator messing you being like let’s get let’s get in
Early let’s do some work you know like they’re meant to be on holidays but they’re asking me to come in and I’m like I said I’m this 18-year-old kid who hasn’t done anything in the game and they’re treating me probably like they’d treat Billy Slater or or Cameron Smith
Or cooperon and I think me seeing that early on just went no you know what I’ve really got to give back I’ve really got to work hard I’ve got to earn my spot because they don’t offer this to anyone and um yeah once they did come back once
Again I was in awe but the way so special how they do it but they just the way they make you feel like you’re their best mate and and that’s probably something I’ve taken out of it and I’d love to have that trait and I do work
Hard on it but there wasn’t one time where I was like in a game being like I shouldn’t say anything because Cameron Smith they were welcoming it you know they were like give me feedback you know you need to speak your mind even if it’s wrong it gives us an idea of where
You’re at and just to have that transparency um from someone who’s at the top of their game to someone who hasn’t even started yet um it was pretty special but there’s there’s rough years in there as well like I like I said I didn’t get my um opportunity straight away I was I
Was fourth string and I think there was a period in 2019 uh no 2018 going into the 19 season so the year before I debuted where um I still wasn’t getting a run I probably didn’t get any reps from the coaches um but but like what happens right you
You’re the fourth string fullback of course they’re not going to put too much time uh technically into you into the game like physically I was getting the Reps I was doing everything um but it was probably more I wasn’t getting involved in those video sessions and probably feeling a bit sorry for myself
And looking back at it I probably should have approached him but I sort of sat back waiting for it to happen to me and did you think it was going to happen or did you think I hang on oh I just thought like oh they don’t care about me
You know like did you still believe at that point I I’ll play for the Melbourne storm or you like no no I it’s funny like I didn’t think I’d be a regular first grader until I’d played a few games okay like I’d thought like you probably have a bit of imposter syndrome
Really of like do I really deserve this but we will touch on that but I I think yeah I just there’s probably a period 2018 going in 2019 where I was sitting down with my manager and he’s like I don’t know if they got you in their
Future plans you know it’s like there’s one other club that’s interested but like and I remember talking about like I just sucks like I just I don’t know and it was probably that once again that victim mentality of of when I first before I moved down there I probably
Just came back a little bit and being away from home and um not feeling like you have that number one support network around you and yeah it probably wasn’t until that meeting where I sat down with Clinton and he’s just like mate there’s probably only one other club that’d be
Interested um I think you just give this this preseason a crack and ask questions and see where you can get better and um yeah just throw everything at it because yeah we we’ll see after but he backed me just to the hilt he just said mate I I
Back you I think you can be one of the great fullbacks just keep asking questions keep being persistent things will happen and um yeah long story short I think drinky got injured in a trial um slaty tired M so I was just Hing in front of me and then I started getting a
Few reps at fullback um and then sort of Midway I debuted in round four that next year so just before you tell me about your debut you said that the coach said you’re going to have to work hard in Craig Bellamy’s world what is working hard yeah I think physically physically
Working hard’s his his thing but I think what I’ve learned over time is yeah it’s not just physic you know it’s it’s what you do off the field um it’s how interact with your teammates um are you are you really working hard at building relationships um in my position that’s
Really important building relationships um studying the game those are the probably things that I’ve leared and now working hard is where I I think when I first got down there I thought it was just physical like I’m putting everything I can into training I’m this 70 kilo bloke getting absolutely belted
By the forwards in contact you were 70 Kil yeah what are you now first 83 so 70 when I first got down here like like physically I cannot be working any hard I’m exhausted this like is this really what foot is about you know that was my
Thought but it was the other working hard but it was the other working hard bro I thought that’s where I figured out I think the point of difference is and um like no you have to work physically hard without a doubt but there’s other areas that if you work hard at that too
It just makes that a little bit easier so yeah that’s what I figured debut what are your memories of it debut yeah 29 round four against the Bulldog so home or away home home yeah so home um with a team I went for when I was a kid so it
Was it was one of those moments where family come down everyone came down yeah Mom Dad brother sister they do a jumper presentation yeah so Billy Slater presented my my jersey and um yeah it was one of those surreal moments where I probably didn’t play in the position I
Wanted to like I came off the bench and played in The Rock which I did for the first few games of my career and um that was an experience within itself but yeah I remember going on probably didn’t play the best game but yeah that that feeling
Of running on and the crowd not knowing who you are but they were cheering and um it’s probably just one of those moments where you reflect on your whole NRL journey and your coaches you had in your Junior days and and the guys that you play with um when under seven
Sending you a message and you’re doing it for those people and I think that was a really special feeling and yeah one that seems like a long time ago now but I know not many people get to do it so yeah forever grateful that I did get
That opportunity and um yeah I’ve had some good luck since well and you’ve had some bad luck as well let’s talk about the good luck first um you won the premiership in 2020 and you won the CL Church medal so it was funny CU you were saying oh geez this
Bl’s rang me and he’s kangaroo fullback and he’s a CL Church medalist you are now C Church what did it mean to well firstly tell me about getting the ball 20 out from their attacking line just after half time so you’re playing the Panthers um I watched it five times
Because it’s just I don’t know I don’t want to sound um I don’t want to sound stupid but there’s a there’s a there’s a poetry to the speed you have when you have the ball and you you like you just look athletic and as soon as you get the
Ball and you get through that first line the first time I’ve watched it back I’m thinking there’s no way anyone’s going to catch you so what’s your memory of that that try yeah it’s all it’s all cracker it is like one of those things that like when it does pop up and you
Watch it it’s just like I can’t believe I did that you know just watch it you few times all my different YouTube account got a few views no it is it is good and like I yeah one of those Sons where it just pops up and you just you dream of
Playing an NRL Grand Final you dream of winning one but then scoring a trying to Grand Final I think you could see by my reaction once I scored it was just pure Joy you know and um I think it put us up 26 nil so you’re sort of thinking gee
That might be the last try they came back and they come back did you start to get edgy that was my lesson learned I think was uh you can never get comfortable and fast forward to last year you look what they did to to Brisbane yeah um like yeah but pretty
Like pretty special feeling and I’m one of those ones where you yeah you feel like you’ve contributed to the game and yeah I think I’d love plenty more of those moments that’s for sure and I was quite young and naive to it all that was
Only my second year of first grade and I think now experiencing what I’ve experienced uh I think you sort of know the hard work that it takes and that was probably a compound of the the 20 years before where I’d sort of yeah been knocked back or worked really hard and
Um you don’t you don’t see the joy in that those disappointing times but when you do achieve something of that great you sort of look back and be like it was definitely worth it and now I think I’m going through that phase where I go okay it’s been tough whatever I’ve been
Through but there’s going to be something at the end of it I’m going to get out of it and I’m going to love it it’s going to be probably the best thing that’s happened in my life and now I just need to ride that wave because yeah
I’ve been on the down one for for a long time I’m trying to give people an understanding not only you but of the Melbourne storm because they’re a Fascination because I think it’d be fair to say in the last 20 years they’ve been the most successful football club
Probably last year in the country in fact it’s not debatable it’s it’s facts so after you win a Premiership like immediately afterwards can do you have any recollection of either before what he said or after what he said the coach to the playing group uh probably not
Probably not I think one thing that stands out um was we all got to choose someone to write us a letter before so we got that on the captain’s run so the day before the game and um we all sat in the lockers there at at A&Z stadium and um like where we
Were to play the next day and we all got these letters from these people we asked to to write to us your letter from uh I asked Billy Slater to write me one so oh wow yeah so it’s do you still have the letter uh I don’t have the oh I would
Have it but I don’t remember sort of where I’ve put it what’s the of what he said to you this is funny again now this the BR you exactly so it’s this guy that you’ve watched on TV achieve what he’s done it’s the guy that called you when
You first got down to Melbourne it’s the guy that presented you to your debut Jersey um now it’s the guy who’s writing me on Grand Final Eve a message and um it was one of those cool moments cuz I don’t think he’d ever told me sort of
How like proud or how he’d seen how hard I’d been working and that message just said that he said um back yourself you’ve done all the hard work I’ve I’ve seen you go through that process of uh I guess being to where you were and where
You are now and you’ve got some great teammates around you you’ve got guys who’ve done it before um don’t think too hard about it go out there and kill it there was something along those lines and um yeah that was that was quite cool I got quite
Emotional and the impact he like now looking back at the impact that he’s had on my whole career whether it’s been through the great times of that um through when it was developing and becoming a fullback and even now going through my injury struggles he’s been through that whole thing and and
Achieved some great things so yeah I think to get a message from him on Grand Final Eve being like you You’ve Got My Ticket of approval that was that was a pretty sick feeling you um you played a game where you scored four tries in the space of I
Reckon it’s 11 minutes yeah some like that can canb or Bron I think maybe Broncos yeah actually he Broncos round 21 so after the Premiership four tries in 11 minutes what and and it’s again it’s it’s beautiful to watch it even for someone that doesn’t really understand the full intricacies
Of the game what is the game like when you’re in that moment where you’re dominating the game where where everything you do touches to goal turns to goal I think I think obviously I get a lot of credit for the the four tries in 11 minutes but I think the way our
Team plays I I’m very fortunate to be in a position where I very picked a few of those tries you know I just pushed with someone else and they gave it to me I did notice I did notice BL whipping it out to you you did the last 12 I did the last
12 like there there is something it was just again I don’t really understand the game but I could watch the game as a sports fan I think whatever they’re doing they’re doing beautifully at the moment yeah and I think that’s just understanding um your teammates and and
The game style you guys play and there’s hard work that goes into it you know you you do those training sessions and you it’s easy not to push with that person cuz you’re getting ready for the next play but um yeah our team that we have it’s like you’ve got to push on
Everything because everyone’s going to be a chance of going through and I remember thinking in that game that gee if we get that ball over there like we might make a break here I could be a chance and you just get in this Flow State of of understanding how teammates
Are going to play um what holes they might run and if I put myself in this picture for the betterment of the team I might not get the ball but it might take a Defender away from him and yeah in that game um few passages of play and
Yeah 11 minutes later I had four dve which was incredible and the the the there was a guy that um I know you’re a North Melbourne man in the AR you it was a guy I follow the Hawks it was a guy that played for Hawthorne and went on to
Win a couple of premierships with Adela called Darren jman and he had the ability is the best BK I’ve seen IFL where he’s shaping to kick or he’s shaping to go one way draws the hand out and then brings it back in and he just yeah ankle breakers my son calls him now
Because he just Tri people over the what’s inv is it natural or learned you or any of that can do it cuz I’ll watch it tell me how you your dummy people in rugby league cuz like I was trying to slow it down what you were doing and I
Couldn’t quite follow the movement it even involves the eyes looking one way and going the other way can you is it is it so natural for you that you can’t break it down or is it a learned thing I think I think it’s a feel thing um there there’s plenty of times I’ve
Thrown a dummy and the defender hasn’t moved and I’ve been smacked so right right right I think it’s like you obviously see the really good parts of things but I think there’s there’s times where you do it and it doesn’t work and um yeah I think yeah you get lucky
Sometimes but I think it’s a feel thing of you’ve played footy for this long now you sort of get a feel if a defender’s going to slide off or he’s going to stay onto you and um then you combine a bit of fatigue in it as well sometimes your
Read isn’t right because you’re fatigued and your your brain’s a bit fuzzy and you go to throw it but the defender hasn’t moved but your brain tells you I know I’ve still got to hold it but then the defender’s there and smacks you so um I probably think reps plenty of reps
Done and how important are the eyes I’d say eyes and hips eyes and hips eyes and hips are a probably indicator because it’s different AFL obviously in NRL your defensive line is coming straight at you so you’re looking straight into someone’s eyes aren’t and it’s probably it’s probably something I’ve learned
From touch football is like you can look at someone’s hips and sort of get the direction they going to go but some guys are really skillful and they’ll turn their hips but still be able to get in and that’s where you find the fine line between really good Defenders and and
Guys who probably don’t have those cues yet and yeah I think you got to try it work it out but sometimes it is a little bit of guess work as well and um I feel like the the way that the game’s G now it’s more Technical and and people are
Trying to to hack the system a little bit and it does work but yeah I guess you got to keep putting yourself in the picture and and turning up and sometimes it might and sometimes it not but I feel like the one time you don’t try it might
Be the one time that it might work so you’re just got to keep persisting and in a match like you would have a GPS on I I know the numbers for for the AFL how far do you run in a typical NRL game yes I’ll probably do 9ks 9k and
What is that broken up into jogging and actual burst high speed meters yeah so high speed sort of Sprint um yeah there wouldn’t be too many low speed I think so the majority of the 9k is yeah is high speed yeah and I think it’s between
A b bit me the half back and the 5’8 yeah we’d probably cover the most ground uh then yeah under that it’s probably anywhere between five and seven K and in the game when how far into the game like do you have a heart rate
Monitor on no okay how far into the game is it tremendously taxing from a cardio perspective oh I think it goes in it goes in waves I think you’re like throughout the whole game the there’s probably oh there there’s plenty of periods where you need to get your
Breath and catch back up but hopefully we’ve scored a try so you get that sort of Break In play yeah um but yeah no there it’s hard to probably put a number on it but there’s times where you’re you’re just moving just being like this
Is this is not I need to stop in play here but and the the the tackling component again because it’s front on tackling when there’s a big guy coming at you right um two parts of this you’ve got to tackle a big guy what what’s the
Main key to to stop a big boy at speed yeah there’s some big units that like really cover the ground I don’t know if I’m the right person I ask I tried to tackle someone and Shadow me kneecap which will get to um no I I mean
From we obviously take part in all those those contact sessions as well and um for me my position probably defending more close to the line at stopping the ball okay um whereas if you’re a bit further out close to your own defensive line cuz you obviously don’t want them
To score a try but um further out I think it’s just yeah just trying to make good contact stepping in and if you can get some help with the other that’s going to help and when you’ve got the ball and they you know do do you know
How many times you get tackled in a game do you get stats on it be like 20 to 30 so that that’s 25 really solid contacts how do you protect your body to to a front on defensive line yeah you just just brace yourselves you just brace
Yourself and you sort of know what’s going to come sometimes you don’t sometimes you break through the line and someone hitss you from the side and um you do all those reps of training to get your body used to that and yeah I think it’s you got so much adrenaline running
Through your body that it doesn’t hurt I mean two days later you’ll be walking around struggling but um in that moment it’s just like you just get up um you need to try get a quick play of the ball so your team can get back on the front
Foot and yeah I think the adrenaline that you feel during a a rugby league game um there’s there’s no other feeling I’ve had quite to it and the the weights to pair obviously you would do a lot of leg weights so I get that but when you
See you guys compared to other football codes you’re really big through the shoulders and The Traps is that sort of is that the upper body focus yeah well we do a lot of we still do a lot of leg work but yeah predominantly um a lot of
Back exercises back shoulders cuz a lot of guys have like injuries around their shoulders and backs it’s like let’s try build your muscles up around there so that if it does copper blow another muscle might be able to help you out um yeah very contact combat sport so um I’d
Say it’s quite a good mix we’re probably doing legs in season twice a week upper body three times a week and yeah P primarily back neck shoulder focused and yeah you just try lift with the heavy boys and then see what you can get how
How heavy are the heavy boys a what are these boys squatting in the gym those big oh silly numbers silly silly numbers give me some numbers you’d have guys having just 200 on their back during the week like on the squat rack on the squat rack yeah 200 kilos 200 kilos just and
Like a powerful explosive squat yeah and I’m just I’ll just stick to my 80 kilo s but no it’s cool to see cuz you’re like we’re obviously not weight we’re not weightlifters you know we’re not professional weightlifters but but to do that in the week of a game yeah to see
The way some guys move it um you can see how they break tackles during the game because it definitely correlates and your and your diet to to stay at your weight as a little are you on the are you have to be a protein shaking creatine man or like you excessive like
Dedicated to your diet one to 10 where do you sit on it all I think I’m I’m learning to be better with it I think I used to be under the impression that you just look at the weight on the scale and that was how you’re going to play that
Week but I think like we said earlier I think that preparation starts weeks and months in advance of you’ve got to be putting the right Foods into you so your gut then speaks to your brain in the right way then your brain’s able to get
Your body to move a certain way and I I think I’m improving that as we go on throughout my career and um yeah early on I could I’d order macers maybe once a week and sit there and be okay with that whereas now I’m like there’s still time
For that don’t get me wrong but if I’m preparing for a game I need to get a certain amount of foods in each week and my big thing at the moment is 30 different plants a week whether that’s fruit and vegetables trying to fit 30
Into my week and that gives me conf to be like I’m getting enough nutrients uh into my gut 30 plants so like 30 bits of fruit or vegetable or whatever leav 30 different um Green Leaf is probably the priority but in the green leafy because it just doesn’t taste it doesn’t taste
Good but like I know my wife tells me all the time you got to eat more green leaves so so I’m like I got I’m the same as you I I’ve actually learned to like them now but only because I’ve like transitioned it in so I go get something like a roto
For dinner and I’ll go buy like a bag of lettuce from wool worth and i’ have a scoop of risoto and i’ just shove lettuce in my mouth and chew it with it so it like tastes like the risoto but it’s still still kid a 12y old but then
Like now I’ve sort of got to a spot where like this sounds so Rogue but I could buy a bag of lettuce and just eat it because I’m like you’ve changed it CU I’m like I know it’s going to make me better you know and I’ve sort of just
Like drip feed it in but now I’ve got like a tolerance to it so I’ll eat it but 30 plants a week so it’s it’s a good guy the the thing that I’ve started having um as I was trying to put on some weight and I was like how can I eat this
And now I just cruise through it cottage cheese yeah yeah it’s it’s good protein doesn’t taste like anything it’s all right a bit of peanut butter in there cottage cheese and add that to your your 30 now round 10 20 21 and this is going
To be more and more of a a relevant discussion in all football codes concussion what you know there’s a lot more of this going on in cricket I will pikovski at the got concussed again the poor bugger obviously Angus BR show has just retired in the AFL um what happened
And what were the after effects for you and I’ll get I’ll move on after that I’ll got another question you know round 10 uh it was magic round actually so every NRL team played up in Brisbane that weekend and um great Fan Fair great thing the NRL do and um yeah genuinely
Excited for it and yeah got just got some footy at the back of shape and the center Jam me and sort of collecting me with a swinging arm and um yeah like I think just another sort of concussion but um how many times would you been concussed before that ien maybe four
Four times um pretty bad one in 2019 2018 um and then just a couple times school rugby so I yeah copped a bit of a knock um obviously complain I had a little bit of neck pain so um probably looked a bit worse than what it was but
Like the medicad come out and stretching me off and um yeah one of those moments where you just think it’s a head knock you know I’ve had a couple I’ll be fine uh but yeah 12 weeks later and I still hadn’t played another NRL game so tell
Me about the symptoms yeah so just 12 weeks later yeah 12 weeks later um really irritable I like I had a girlfriend at the time and she flew up and um yeah I guess was with with me and and I really needed that but I was the
Biggest [ __ ] I just didn’t want to be around anyone um sunlight like any sort of light would hurt me like I just the light would hurt yeah I had real light sensitivity noise sensitivity um really irritable just just not myself it was it was quite scary I think for the first week I
Thought like it’ll pass and then so next week goes along and you get a little bit better and you go back out but I’d go back out for half an hour into into a team environment I’d be like I just can’t like I just had this headache my
Neck was sore um once again just really irritable people would speak to me I’d probably come off as a bit rude um and then as you progress throughout those weeks I think it got to like week six or seven I started doing some walking activity again and I’d walk and I was
Like like this isn’t this isn’t normal you know and what how would you feel when you’re walking oh just like tired just tired exhausted not myself and um yeah it took me probably we I went and seen a um a specialist and he reassured me everything would be all right and you
Know it’s the club were doing a really good thing by being conservative with it and and not rushing me back and as hard as that was like I’m I’m really grateful that they were because I think it’s put me in in a good stad now where I do
Understand it more and um yeah I just it was it was really disappointing cuz I sort of came back and I felt good but there’s probably a bit subconsciously where I probably wasn’t there there or wasn’t thinking about my role as specific as what I should have been and
Um I came back into a side where we’d won like 20 in a row we were flying like we playing really good footy and I think because I’d experienced success that year before with the Premiership I sort of was probably a little bit selfish in thinking I don’t want to miss this again
And um yeah that’s it’s a tough one like you you look back in hindsight should I just sat the whole year out and not disrupted the side um that’s probably something it’s going to hang there for a while that I probably could have done that and and been fine and what not but
I got back to playing and you could just tell that I probably wasn’t where I should have been and um playing the way I should have and even just like video sessions and connecting with my teammates there was still a bit of me because I’d train hard and then we’d go
Back to like I just didn’t have energy for anyone else it was still like physically I felt fine I didn’t have the headaches my neck was feeling good but I just still felt a little bit irritable um um and yeah whether was just subconsciously not being ready I’m not
Too sure but yeah scary period of time and um like I said it’s a big thing in sport at the moment and I’m I’m really grateful that it is because it’s a real thing and we we sign up to to rugby league and we sign up to these Combat
Sports where you know it’s a possibility but I think if we can educate ourselves more and and be a bit more conservative around it then it’s just going to give you that I guess confidence within yourself that no they are doing the right thing for me and um yeah it’s hard
To tell with this this CTE stuff at the moment and I well so so on that and this is and I said to you and I say to every guest at the start if I ask anything or you answer anything that we’re not happy with we chop it out because that’s not
What we’re about here so disregard the NRL disregard Melbourne storm um from this conversation and I’ve no doubt the protocols as Cutting Edge as they can and they’re doing everything to protect the players does it concern you what’s happened to you like you said you’ve been knocked out four times
Y like the average person on the street then is not getting knocked out four times in their entire life yeah does it you’re an intelligent man you talked about what you want to do in the future does it concern you what it potentially could do to you yeah I mean
It’s it’s there my my um my granddad passed away for dementia and he played footy so like know I’m like there’s there might be Noti link that you can potentially see and and I’m quite aware of that and uh yeah I feel like if it’s it’s still we still don’t know
Enough about it to directly correlate it but in saying that I think it is a possibility and I’ve done a bit of re research about it um of off your own back yeah just the brains wave healing which is a a neuroscientist book and um neuros pychology and just learning about
That side of things and I’ve read a book about headach CU I was trying to read about it when I had mine and just trying to figure out what it meant hard to read a book about headaches when you’ve got a massive when you got a headache but it
Was quite insightful so I’ll give it that but uh no I think like I think there’s a lot of things that contribute to it but I think my look on it is I enjoy what I do now um I get a really big kick out of the platform I have to
Be able to share my messages share my stories and be on TV every week to to deliver that uh but at the same time yes it’s a POS possibility um I try to do things off the field a little bit differently to I guess reduce the risk
Of that happening um I don’t drink too much I don’t do drugs um I know that there is probably a correlation between that and and CTE as well but it’s like well what are you you know what do you sacrifice to have that I’ve got a great
Life right now I feel like I’m setting myself up well and hopefully there’s a cure in the future that can fix it up so at this stage the benefits as a 26 year old professional athlete what you get from the game and what you’re able to help uh provide others from the game
Outweighs the potential negatives yeah and I think if it gets to a stage where I I feel like it is damaging um I’m I’ll happily step away would you yeah I’d happily step away I think I’ve got bigger goals in life and I’d obviously like to raise a family one day and i’
I’d like to be able to go down the grounds and play cricket with the young boy or young girl whoever it is and um yeah I’ve got aspirations to to be more than a footy player so I think it ever gets to a stage where I feel like I’m
I guess not ready to play anymore I’ll step away and whether that’s with the head or with that’s with the body that’s that’s just one of those things that I feel like you just have to be okay with and you have to learn that that is part
Of the game and as long as you’re taking care of how you handle it and the way you go about it um that’s all you can do in the moment but yeah unfortunately there’s there’s people who have had to step away from the game and there’s
Massive respect to him CU I know how hard that would be and to give up your whole life really like what you’ve known for your past I guess 30 years for some and yeah to to step into a new Arena just to to better your body that’s a
Massive sacrifice and a lot to give away but I guess if you got goals and um aspirations to do things in the future and you feel like that’s going to be at a detriment to you then I think it’s a massive move and something that yeah I
Think people will think a bit more seriously about now it’s a well thought out answer you know we’re coming to the knee now round 18 versus camra 2022 yeah I remember watching it oh and I remember there was discussions that it was like a a car crash victim it really
Hit me yesterday when I was watching um the I presume it was the Doo the storm dead 25 minute doco following when you get to over to the states and see Bill which will’ll get to and at the start of that there’s dramatic music playing and
The coach is talking about well you no we’re not going to see him we’re not going to see him for the rest of the season but it wasn’t what he was saying it was the look on his face and the tone in his voice and he was just
Absolutely devastated that one of his boys was going through what he was going through what are your memories of of what happened it sounds crazy but but did it hurt what happens when you go into the rooms afterwards like are you happy to talk about it yeah yeah it’s I
Think I think May talking about might help someone going through something similar and like I said I really enjoy doing that so uh yeah first initial thoughts when it happened was so what did your knee hit his knee so it was right knee on knee right knee yeah
Kneeon knee um mine was planted sort of in like a squat position and he was just coming full peled at me so um yeah Direct Hit very very painful straight away so you knew something was not good knew something wasn’t right but I didn’t know
The extent of it sometimes you you cop a hit in footy and you think it’s the worst thing ever and going at half time the doctor be like no you’ll be good and you’ll be right just run back out there and you’re sweet so I think that’s what went
Through Maya cuz I’ve had a few little injuries I was like like this is so sore like you’re nearly hoping that like as bad as you’re not carrying on like you’re s of just like that was like ouch but I was rolling the ground and then that was like ouch yeah
That yeah that hurt but then I don’t know you’re just trying to like I think the whole pain just takes over in your mind of I don’t know what it is but this is like this is this really hurt hurts and then obviously the physio comes over
Presses on it goes oh yeah I think we’ve just sort of got a knock do you want to just try stand up I think there’s footage of me just trying to stand up and as soon as I put weight on I just just collapsed and went no that’s not
Good and still at that time I don’t know what I don’t know what I’ve done like I think um maybe it’s just a really bad cork that’s what I was thinking but I’m like do you get corks in your kneecap or like I think the pain was just above my
Kneecap so I was like maybe I’ve just been hit there and then it’s just like shot down yeah carried off down the sheds and then the doctor was just pressing on it and like sort of just like I guess if you press on like your your quad I guess you
Can feel it like separate y so he was doing that on my kneecap and I could just feel yeah just feel fragments of bone just separating as he pushed his finger into it and um yeah he just looked at me and said yeah you’ve you’ve broken your
Kneecap so I thought oh broken in six weeks you know you’ll be you’ll be sweet I like your positive six weeks so quite positive about it um no painkillers at this stage just sort of like oh I was fine with it I did my rib Cartage a few plays before
So I was like oh actually though my rib’s a bit sore can you check that as well so he’ been pressing money I’d forgotten about it he put a big brace on it he’s like we’ll go get you an x-ray whatnot we’ll check your rib out I
Remember going to the hospital and just like complaining about my rib being like Oh like this is like I think I need a JB but my rib is cooked here so you’re more concerned about your rib than your knck yeah more concerned about my rib and
Then um as we went in to get the x-rays and we like I was sitting there just on the bed and the surgeon doctor was just in front of me he’s like all right we’re going to get you up for an x-ray now um we can’t give you painkillers because
You don’t know how soon we’re going to operate on you so I’m just sitting there yeah like that’s all right I think I was still in a bit of shock um obviously seeing my KNE it was just this big ball on top and I was like that’s not normal
But I’m like maybe it’s just like that’s just the way it reacts to a hit and what not I remember just being at the ball still still really naive to what was to come like I just saw yeah it’ll be an X-Ray once again get a scan
Might be a couple months but we’ll see what happens um and then once I went up and got the X-ray and came back it was the first time I’d like stood up and been like moved along and all the blood just rushed straight from my head and
Like passed out had to have like the nausea tablets and um from the pain yeah from the pain and they just said yeah we need to so yeah this is bad and R room showing me the the X-ray of the knee and what did the X-ray look like like someone
Taking a baseball bat to my knee it was um yeah it was it was it was quite shocking but then again like I hadn’t had a long-term injury you know I had that concussion but I feel like it was quite different um had had long-term
Injury I still didn’t know I was in for the 4 months that I was in for but I remember looking at being like oh [ __ ] like how they going to put that back together and I think the thing that stands out was how naive I was to it all
I just thought this would be fine like I’ll get it back and then you start reading a few things and um yeah this might be a few months it’s quite a difficult rehab and yeah fast forward a few months and so what was the moment when you actually
Realized what it was going to mean I don’t know everyone around me was so positive and I think I probably needed that just to I feel like if someone told me how hard it was going to be early I don’t know but if you told me
How hard it was going to be after 2 months when I knew how hard it was going to be after 14 that would have been disastrous and what was your worst day um worst day was probably around that 8 nine month Mark when I thought I’d be
Back and then you run and you look down at your quad and your quad’s still not back to the same size as it was before and you just question whether it’s ever going to be the same again and that was scary and I think like I spoke to to
Charlie KERO had a quite a similar injury and um like he was awesome he said any like we’d catch up for coffees and anything I was going through he’d just be there to listen to and say yeah like I’ve had something similar or no I
Didn’t and it just gave me a bit of direction to go okay maybe it’s not normal maybe I do need to seek something else to do something else differently and yeah it probably wasn’t until that 8 n month Mark where I went over season and and seen Bill NOS where I probably
Got that that kick I needed so in in the video again your your your first meeting I presume it is with your first meeting with Bill yeah and he’s he’s not talking about athletic performance he’s like how you’re traveling as far as sitting in a chair or standing up or walking and that
Was when it hit me I was like wow this is a really serious really serious um injury why Bill and and what did Bill do for you physically and listening to him it sounded like he’s pretty in tune mentally as well not just physically big Billy he’s he’s changed my career has he
Yeah he I think what he’s done for me and what I’ve been through is yeah it’s probably the best thing I’ve ever done in my inold career so um I guess to break it up what he does is I’d say he’s like a performance movement specialist is how he declare
Himself and um you obviously hear a lot of things about who he’s work with and he’s done and so who’s he worked with for those that are not aware of him oh he’s worked with Tiger Woods he’s done some stuff with Tiger Woods Nick Bosa um
Few of the AFL boys as well tiger you’ve got me tiger tiger was yeah but he just I think because he’s seen so much and and seen different personalities different individuals he sort of knew how to approach my way and first day he got there he just sort of sat there and
He was ear to listen like he just listened to me he just said yep like I can tell you’re frustrated like it’s this sucks if I had this done to like it just really understood what I was about and to have a stranger relay that back
To you it was like all right like he might not feel like he’s helping me in this moment but just for him to listen to me and listen to my frustrations because I feel like no knock to our physios but they’ve got 40 other guys to look after you know it’s like my
Concerns might be not they’re worried they’re probably worried about the guys who are a chance of playing I was no chance of playing and for him to just sit back and listen and and give me a clear plan forward and give me reassurance of no I back he’s like I’ll
Back you dude like you’ll get back to that like you’ll be doing that again and I was like like just to hear that you know it’s so refreshing because there’s periods where I don’t feel like he’s like you’re not going to feel like it right here you’re not going to get to
The end of these two weeks and be like I’m good to run out there and score heaps of tries and kick heaps of goals but he said it is a process and we will get there like he was adamantly we will get there and I think for him to say
That and the way he just goes about his whole process and pumps you with confidence you’re never doing anything wrong there’s always ways you can improve but there was never a moment I felt like I was behind um and yeah it just changed my whole perspective on a
And a long-term rehab and um how to do it differently if something happened again which I did wa mate you come back September 2023 qualifying final against the brisen Broncos you lose the game it’s the first time I was watching the game live um cuz I’d read what you’d been through and
You know people it was a big story it’s the first time I’ve seen one of those sort of plastic blowup things that they put around which in your case is your ankle I’d never seen one of those before um so then you’ve well you busted your ankle yeah it was
Horrible how do you not or do you go poor me oh no definitely I i’ went poor me straight away I think it was the first sort of emotion I felt well the whole country went poor Ryan so yeah no well why me is probably the the one you
Know why me um I’ve let all these people down again you thought you’d let people down yeah geez that’s a bit of a har judgment I mean yeah well now now I see that as as quite a harsh way to look at it but in that moment I
Was yeah like like why me I’ve worked so hard I’ve I’ve done everything I could um and I guess after being through what I went through for so long with the knee The Only Natural Instinct you think of is [ __ ] I’m going to go through another 12
Months you know um and it did look gruesome right at the start yeah that was more painful than the knee was it y that was more painful than the knee so what did you do to your ankle so I snaap my FIB right took a little bit of my tib
Off when the cmosis snapped as well um and then I dislocated my ankle so yeah it was I think visually because I couldn’t visually see my knee is’s anything wrong with it um yeah I straight away looked at my ankle and it probably facing the wrong way facing the
Wrong way um and yeah the the pain during that was yeah was quite immense but yeah the first initial thoughts of yeah like I’ve I’ve let I’ve let people down again and um yeah like why why does it have to be me you know what have I
Done wrong what what do I need to do more to to get a good run at the at this and um yeah I guess it’s only it’s only natural to think that way and how long do you have those thoughts for um probably until I was I was you get
Carded off and you go down into the tunnel and you’re sort of sitting there um then the green whistle kicks in I think so the green whistle kicks in and then I quickly shifted my focus to to wanting a snack pack cuz I was hungry so um yeah like it’s
One of those ones where the emotion just takes over and um I guess I’m probably a little embarrassed with how I initially thought but I think when you’re in a desperate situation like that you you sort of can’t control it and and it’s just up to then what you do after that
And how you control your emotions which which I’ve learned a lot better from the first rehab and um yeah probably took me a while but you do feel sorry for yourself for a bit so what have you learned like resilience is such a a modern buzzword not just
Um in sport in life and with your kids you want them to be resilient like if you if you I wanted one thing for the kids is to be resilient because life’s not always easy what have you learned about resilience through this extended period I think it’s important to have
People around you I think it’s important to have people who like I said at the start of my career gave me that scaffolding nurtured me in a way that they’re not telling me everything to do but they’re giving me the right direction um I think I think yeah
Support’s one of those ones where you have it around you but you’ve you probably take it for granted at times and um I know I did during the first one and yeah during the second one I think in order to be resilient you need some good support around you
And it’s it’s quite it’s quite hard to do sometimes but you’ve got to you got to put things into perspective um here I am still getting paid here I am still with an opportunity to come back here I am in the hands of the best people in
The world to get my body right but again there’s some people who might be in a car crash that have a similar injury and they can’t afford the physio they can’t afford seeing a psycholog just every week you know and I had the tools to be
Able to do that and um yeah like there’s going to be times where you’re caught down and you you’re thinking the worst and um it can be all relative but yeah I think support network a massive one you need good support um you need to put things into perspective and you’ve just
Got to see it as part of your journey that’s probably my third one um um it’s part of my story now I’ve I can relate to people who have have gone through a tough time or a tough injury and um if I can be someone who goes out there on
Center Stage now and and performs at a high level it just shows them that they can do something similar so um yeah I think perspective Support Network and and just inviting into your journey and embracing it for what it is you’ve obviously been training hard over the
Summer and uh played a trial game you went to FG and played um as it is now it’s 10:00 Wednesday on Friday night you’re back in the masterroom um first game of the season and again this will have gone to air do you have or how do you deal with
Any thoughts of trepidation going in thinking [ __ ] what if something had happen again um I think I think I’ve come to terms with that now I think like I said it’s it’s all a part of the journey um everything happens for a reason and you’ve got to react to to
Whatever throwing at you and um I feel like I’ve done all the hard work like I did when I came back from my there I feel like I’ve done enough now um to put myself in a good stad and I think the way I look at it
Is the two ways I got injured were freak incidents absolutely they were um they went my body letting me down they were 110 kilo bloke running 40 km an hour straight into my knee and 130 kilo bloke falling on my ankle so um yeah I
Guess that’s it’s a bit of I’m a bit unlucky and like I said I’ve also experienced some great things in my career already so I feel like it’s just sort of you’re on that curve at the moment where I had some really high highs now I’ve had the really low lows
And whatever comes with that I just got to take it and and roll with the punches but at the same time there’s going to be better that’s going to come from it whether it’s something in footy or it’s me as a person and me learning on the
Journey I think that’s something the way I look at it so yeah I don’t think about it too much um I think I just got to go out there and do what I do and if something happens it happens and I’ll address that but yeah right now I see it
As just a it’s the whole process and um being amongst it and learning about it and yeah whatever you’re faced with just see as a new chapter before we wind this up um and I’m loving the conversation so every NRL player that uh will want to know the answer to this question that
Doesn’t play at the Melbourne storm what is it about the Melbourne storm that have allowed them to be so successful and so respected and have so few public mistakes along the way yeah I think it’s hard like I think it obviously starts from the top um Craig obviously instills values around
The club that if you don’t buy into it you’re not going to last long at the club and um it does revolve around working hard and being a good person and whether you’re yeah whether you’re working in the office or you’re the 40th player on the roster star um you’re marked by the
Same I guess the same criteria and um yeah I guess once you see your your leaders of the club doing it you just naturally foll in that path and and don’t get me wrong there’s times where where guys stuff up and and get things wrong they’re in the human and I’ve done
Things wrong in the past as well and um I think the way they go about just guiding you and and nurturing you and like I said scaffolding is so important in any industry you’re in and um yeah I feel like the way they do that is is quite infectious and yeah it’s
It’s no special recipe I don’t think I think that’s just the way it is there good people working hard who care for each other and when you got that when you got that care for each other you want to work hard for each other and and
You’re going to pull each other up so I texted you yesterday um Fair start to the season I someone was telling me yesterday the the fox numbers on the Vegas games were out of control like enormous numbers I’m sure you had a look at it would you like to get the
Opportunity for the storm to go to Vegas like I sat there and watched it and I typically wouldn’t first round the NRL season on a Sunday when you got your family I thought I need to have a look at this like the crowds everything it
Was your man um Peter vales is a genius what did you make of it all yeah he’s he’s done a really good job I think the NRL uh the way they’ve sort of promoted the game and the teams they took over and the games that they’ve played like
They were they were two high quality games and um yeah I think the fans loved it and and big shout out to the fans too who went over it’s it’s a big investment if you’re coming from Australia to to go watch Vegas and um yeah not just the
Footy but I’m sure the off field stuff too and no I think the way they’ve gone about it was Sensational um my only thing I’d probably say is give it a bit more of a leading next time um whether it’s storm next year just give the fans
12 months to to be able to prepare it uh cuz I know how hard it is to H up that money and get time off work and you got to factor all those things in so no can’t fault how it’s gone I think I think there’s a contract for it for
Another four years and they’ll keep building but yeah Peter V’s done a he’s done a pretty good job and he he is a ball he’s he got us through Co and got us through playing games and that and now he’s he’s got Vegas running too so uh yeah know they they’ve done an
Outstanding job and yeah hopefully can be one of those teams next year get the flying M to Vegas we’ll get people to the strip to go mate we always finish this podcast the same way um for those youngsters out there that want to achieve success and I always give
Different examples whether they want to be statisticians or writers or scien saw rugby league players you’ve had how old are you 20 25 You’ packed a lot of experiences into into a relatively short life what advice would you give to those out there that are hoping to achieve
Success in the field that they are passionate about oh I like that you understood the weight of the question I like that you this is this is this is a big one I think um yeah if you’re if you’re a young kid aspiring to to do something in any walk
Al life I think being successful or um yeah you want to be the best chippy or you want to be the best plumber anything um I think you’ve got to find the right people to to associate with um you’ve got to find people who whose opinions
You respect but also be big enough to walk away from the people whose opinions aren’t leading you down the right path and and that’s that’s a massive sacrifice you have to make and um yeah I guess one thing that I’ve learned throughout my journey that’s probably another one is like embrace the
Imp infection of life like there’s a it’s called like WBY wabby Sai I think it’s called and um you wabby Sai yeah so Adam Grant an organizational psychologist um one of his books I was reading it just spoke about you everyone’s so fine on chasing Perfection
But you need to find the beauty and imperfection and rather than chasing Perfection go for the achievable standards and just keep building your habits up in that way so um yeah I guess for this is a this is probably one for my situation the one that I was in but um
Find the right people who nurture you people who build you up people who will scaffold you people who not tell you what to do and force you into things but give you the right lessons and then I think if you’re if you’re a prodigy or you’re someone who’s achieved hips
Success just keep being creative find something where you can be creative um find a different way to do things and just keep your brain ticking over because it might work now but times are changing and it might not work in 10 years time so just keep trying to change
Things um keep thinking asking questions and be open minded to to having a growth mindset Ryan your story is everything this podcast asir to be um you’ve annunciated it beautifully um I said it right at the start you a rugby league player I love now you’re person I love
The way you talk about yourself and your love for respect for people is outstanding um Good Luck on Friday night in the season moving ahead there’s obviously a lot more to your life than football but um we really appreciate you coming on the show and maybe you have a
Lot of success moving forward good thanks H thanks for having me on appreciate it well done
6 Comments
I love when you post and I love your podcast
Can you please try to get manus La a change on the podcast
Great pod, Guru! 👏
Another Melbourne storm player that I can no longer hate… dammit Howie
over hearing from paps very deep person
Probably the best sporting pod I've ever heard, youre a wizard guru