Series five of Drive to Survive was watched for 90.2m hours in the first half of last year – one of Netflix’s biggest hits. Box to Box, the creator of the show, is now applying the popular format across a number of different sports. Warren Smith, the production company’s head of sport and factual, joins the podcast to give us the inside track on Box To Box’s approach to making a hit sports documentary.
Talking points:
• Smith’s background and working at Box to Box (2:10)
• Why did Box to Box’s style cut through so well? (9:05)
• Are the stars more open to the cameras now? (15:44)
• How the producers work on storylines and put the shows together (19:49)
• Waiting for the call to commission the next season and keeping the series fresh (29:47)
• Upcoming projects (33:51)
Hello and welcome to another edition of the sports Pro podcast I am your host Tom Bassam and this week I’m joined by two guests firstly Sports Pro features editor Sam cart hello Sam hey Tom thanks for having me back along not a problem mate always good to see you we’ll also
Be speaking to Warren Smith who is the head of sport and factual at Box tobox films aka the makers of drive to survive we sit down with Warren for a lengthy conversation but to give you a little bit of context about that I’ll hand you
Over to Sam yeah so as you mentioned Tom box to box film is obviously best known for producing the drive to survive Formula 1 docu series but recent years they’ve also produced full swing for the PGA tour in golf breakpoint in tennis tour to France Unchained and more
Recently we’ve also seen them release Six Nations full contact so kind of like carved out a nich for themselves really and have really started to I guess Corner that Sports documentary space so we spoke a little bit to Warren about yeah I guess how they’ve kind of started
To dominate that space a creative process when it comes to making these documentaries the importance of being flexible you know what it’s like working with the athletes and all the executives and that kind of thing so yeah really really interesting far reaching conversation but um I’ll leave it to
Warren to kind of shed some on that so let’s let’s sorry to interrupt your podcast but if you haven’t heard month we are heading to Manhattan for sports Pro New York on the 18th and 19th of March you can hear from industry innovators such as Big 12 commissioner Brett ymar candle
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Checkout terms and conditions apply and this offer is not applicable to pre-existing Purchases Warren Smith head of sport and F show at Box tobox films thanks very much for joining us on the sports Pro podcast well thanks for having me box to box really shots prominence probably in sports industry circles following the success of the drive to survive docu
Series on Netflix which we get into later is about to start its sixth season and has been like widely credited I guess with bringing Formula One to new audiences and also kind of I guess kickstarting this era of the sports documentary before we get into all that
Let’s just talk a little bit about you I guess you know how did you come to be involved in box to box and suppose what’s it like working there at the moment I mean just come to the final part of the question is great I mean
Look we get the opportunity to go to some of the biggest sporting events in the world and it’s exciting because we are known for the sport shows but also we’re looking at non sport as well so there’s a lot of great things that are coming up and I feel really privileged
Because whereas the industry may be quiet I feel like we’re we’re in a really sort of good vein of health so actually we’ve got a lot of great great producers directors uh and also sort of the sports that we are working in are sort of embracing us so I think from
That perspective it’s brilliant I’ve been at box to box now for over three and a half years I came in as a showrunner on the first season of make or break which is an Apple TV plus series it was sort of the first long form series that box to box had done
After Drive survive I know they’ done obviously sort of series that were more sort of historic and things like that but in terms of the sort of sports access dock I suppose it was the second one and driver just dropped around I think it just at season two it was just
Dropping season 3 was coming up or it was midway through the filming of season 3 when I joined so it had been a huge success so I knew that my job as a showrunner was to sort of like well exactly what it says it’s to run the
Show build a team but also how do you follow Drive survive so luckily for us we got on a plane to Hawaii which isn’t too bad in the middle of Co and then that was it rested history I spent a bit of time with James and Paul actually I
Spent sort of eight weeks in Australia with Paul one of the co-founders which was almost like 3 years in a contained period because we were living together having to learn the box to box way and I would say that I think box to box although I’ve come from a very
Traditional television background you know the 20 years of going doing every role from Runner researcher AP producer director etc etc sort of James and Paul don’t and I think that’s what’s really refreshing about the company because we have sort of The Producers directors the production managers the talent that come
In who do have that history but you know James is from more of a sort of feature documentaries or actually scripted background and Paul has done a sort of mixture of lots of different things as well whether it be journalists or game shows or sales or whatever and I think
The combination of that a bit of a Melting Pot I think that’s where it’s great because it’s not like okay this is how we do it and this is how you make a TV show it’s sort of well how we going to make this different how are we going
To improve it and I think that’s it so I came in on That season and then sort of after that sort of moved into sort of more of an in-house exec position which is sort of executive producer and that’s overseeing the showrunner that I would have been
Previously and then also sort of running a couple of different shows and then you know as we grew then I’ve sort of stepped into the sort of head of sport and factual role which my job really is to support James and Paul and their vision for the company but also make
Sure that I can be across as many of the shows and essentially delivering our Sports slate to Netflix Apple Amazon had you had much of a background with sports content before you were saying before we hit record that you working on SCS before but like nor do you feel like you
Need to have a bit that sport background to do a show like drive to survival to do to work on box boxes production slate you definitely don’t need that but I’ve never worked on in a television perspective I love sport I love playing sport as a kid football was my sort of
Passion you know like most people in the UK you’re failed you know Wann toe footballer and then you sort of get into television and you want to make shows and I was lucky enough to make some great TV and I think of’ always you know there’s something about competitive
Nature of sport which you need to make Sports documentaries because you’re having to go into these worlds where you’re you’re dealing with the elite of the elite and you know I might have been playing sort of like Semi-Pro lower Leagues football but you still know what a dressing room environment’s like you
Still know when to talk and when to actually shut up because you know if a Coach is talking a player Etc and I think having a little bit of that background does help but does mean you have to have that I think sort of the key for me is being able to understand
And how to sort of negotiate things with the world that is at best and I think previous to this I did SCS hes wins and in that space you know you’re dealing with special forces operators who who can be tricky I’ve worked in schools on a show called educating where you’re dealing
With sort of head Masters and teachers so these all about access and and relationships really and building a trust with whether it be a someone from the military a sports person or even a a teacher I think it’s all about personal skills having that relationship and and
Also knowing when you actually when no actually means no and when no means you actually can push a bit further I think that’s the key so not necessarily having to be from a sports background no but I do think being able to be in that environment does does help yeah do you
Ever sort of like when you first started this role was there ever an element of being a little bit Star Struck because you guys are working with you know these Global athletes who have such massive following you see them on the screen all the time all of a sudden you kind of
Hanging out with them in a pretty relaxed environment I suppose and kind of getting to know them probably at their most vulnerable I guess some of the stuff they tell you is and what they usually disclos to kind of an official broadcaster or when they’re talking to
The Press I suppose is it is it quite interesting sort of getting to know those athletes and working with them on that level yeah it’s amazing I think it’s a privilege the best thing for me is I sort of had my introduction through surfing and I honestly I’ve got the
Hugest admiration for those athletes because I think as athletes they’re unbelievable because you can’t even stand up let alone go in a barrel but it wasn’t a sport that I really had any background knowledge of so it just allowed me to do the job in the way that
I would do anyway so then when you did step into the PGA Tour or other worlds that you know sort of a little bit more it’s less so and also I think the way that we build the company we want sort of directors and producers that build trust and relationships with individual
Athletes as well so sometimes in my role I don’t want to step over the mark too much and become best mates with an athlete because essentially you want to have that separation so you can tell their story obviously you’re there if there’s any conversations to be had and
Needed but sometimes you want those producer directors we call them to build that trust relationship themselves and you don’t want to feel like you’re stepping on their toes at that points I do sometimes think wow I’m like in this event whether it be Wimbledon or sort of
You know the Masters or at Silverstone but in terms of Star Struck nature it’s just I’ve always been the same way even when I was a producer director filming with a camera you just get in a bit of a zone so you’re not really thinking about
Wow you know what it is it just becomes a job um if that makes sense yeah I guess let’s talk a little bit about drive to survive now I know that you as you mention you sort of joined the company after I guess it was after the
First couple of Seasons right so when that first came out in 2019 and the sports documentary space was a lot less saturated than it is now since then it’s kind of been held up as a reference point for the industry right and I think what’s noticeable is that every time a
New sports documentary is announced it’s probably described as a drive to survive series the idea is that Sports kind of chasing that same sort of effect kind of looking back on when it first launched even just you know as someone who perhaps viewed the show and also working
On it now why do you think it is that it has been so successful and has had the impact that it has I think sort of like from a company perspective as mentioned it earlier you know James and pulled the the rest of the team as well don’t
Approach these things in a sort of the same way as lots of TV producers would initially so it’s about sort of like building trust I think James came you know had made the film Center so having that respect I suppose from the Formula 1 Community goes a long way but then
It’s about sort of building access and Trust doing that and I think that’s what you get from the show you know you’re in those moments where you’re like oh my God they were there I’m not saying anything negative about anybody else’s work but sometimes you watch some things
You think right this is a bit of a puff piece for that football team or that individual club or whatever whereas I think the beauty of Formula 1 Drive survive is you’re doing multiple teams so you can’t do a puff piece for everybody and one season might be
Positive for you the next season might be negative whether that be a team or or an individual and that goes the same as golf or you know tennis or whatever we’re working on so I think that is the slight difference because actually you’re telling multiple Nuance stories
Rather than right okay this is the story of this sports team and you know they’ve got signed off on the edit etc etc and I think that is the difference in that show in my opinion does that mean then you’re coming into the company you’ve made that first couple of series is it
Easier to go and then have those conversations with other places and look and be like look this is what we’re going to do this is what we’re not going to do but they’ve seen your work so they’re already like we’re on board is it does it just make those conversations
Easier when it comes to new projects it does but I think every Sports has their own sort of background and sort of identity and sort of what comes with it is sort of okay we’re not the same as Formula 1 we’re not the same as this whether it be rugby whether it be
Cycling Etc so I think every conversation’s different yeah I think as a sport they will want that sort of drive to survive effect which is talked about a lot but as an individual you just want to win your race game tournament whatever you’re doing you’re not really bothered
About the cameras but I think sort of for me yeah the conversations are easier because we can say you know we aren’t there to be a gotcha program whatever but they’ve seen the shows they’ve seen sort of it’s not always positive and there are some negatives but they also
See the benefits from the show so I think from that perspective having Drive survive out there in front is a definite definite positive thing you know 100% when we came into golf you know everybody’s talking about that well you know Ferrari and Mercedes didn’t do season one so maybe I won’t and actually
Golf did Lean in in the season one and it just made that show just pop straight off the bat so I think sort of that is key and if you hadn’t got Drive survive two or three seasons under its belt would those golfers would those other players have actually lent into the
Sport I’m not sure yeah is there an element of pressure that comes with the drive to survive tag as well because I suppose whenever you guys take on a new project um again the Press will describe you guys as kind of the makers of the drive to surv documentary right that’s
Kind of how the reputation within sport has grown at least does that add an element of pressure to sort of emulate the impact of that show or do you guys not really think about that when you’re work on another project I don’t think you think about the end goal I think you
Just make the best stories possible I think when we have development chats and conversations now we have to be looking at what’s different like what’s individually different about this sport what sort of sets this sport apart from the others because the thing about Formula 1 is it’s pretty much life and
Death you crash that car that there big risk yeah and some sports don’t have that so you’re leaning into other bigger stories whether it be a political story with this Saudi back live or whether it be sort of a character story or even like you look at T of France where you
Know they’re throwing themselves down not throwing themselves but they’re going down a mountain in Lyra and if they come off that’s it game over so I think Stakes are different in every sport and I think that’s our key is to sort of really tap into to what makes
That individual sport sort of sing I mean we’re not in the game of cookie cutter and going right at 3 minutes 50 that happens in drive so we got to do that in this show but it’s about sort of learning lessons from that but also moving it on and trying to be creative
And just not essentially yet like I say not being cookie cutter versions of Drive survive of this sport this Sport and this sport because otherwise people just get bored of that the viewer will they’ll soon sniff it out and we don’t want that to happen I think one of the
Interesting things for me about especially full swing and actually in drive to survive too is the stories that you tell that actually probably don’t hear all that much because usually sport is about the winners in the series like you hear from people that aren’t like
You hear from Joe Damon who is rarely a winner on the PGA tour but he’s a really really interesting character um and you hear from like the teams at the back of the pack in Formula 1 is it in some ways more fun to tell those stories than it
Is to do like they won like that’s it I think sort of a lot of that comes from from necessity before my time but the fact that Mercedes and Ferraris didn’t do season one of drive it made that team have to open up their lens of going what
What are we going to cover and then you all a sudden you uncover Gunther and you uncover these stories so when we went into golf you know Joel was one of those where I think my first tournament was Phoenix wo we call it now like the Waste
Management Phoenix Open and you know he was there with Harry Hicks taking his shirt off swigging a beer and running off and like oh well how the hell you know who’s this character and straight away you start learning and and digging and and the thing the way we do is we
Try and find stories I remember one of The Producers coming and saying oh he’s got this background around with his caddy they were schoolmates they were this that so you start like UNP paling the the sort of narrative and you’re like wow that’s much more compelling than just another winning story so I
Think the winning stories and narratives have to be there and look season two got a powerful episode with Joel where he’s coming to terms that he’s now pretty famous not necessarily for his golf game more so from being involved in full swing and actually how that impacts him
You know he’s never really been that guy where know the gallery crowd follows him round but now he is and he’s like alongside Jen spe and and JT and those guys Rory and maroy and stuff in terms of a fans favorite and actually how does that affect his game so the show can
Impact story lines in the same way as you know the actual tournament itself yeah guess it’s a pretty good example though right but you mentioned there about Mercedes and Ferrari not wanting to be involved and that gives other teams on the grid an opportunity as you mentioned there it gives uh these kind
Of shows give other golf less known golfers an opportunity um do you think the longer you’ve done this essentially I think you know whether they’re teams whether they’re Executives whether they’re the athletes who are perhaps at the start of this a little bit closed off and didn’t want to give the house
Away and were kind of quite protective over you know their habits their story maybe those ones that thought they were maybe a little bit too big for the show they’ve started to realize the benefits of it as well and being involved in them I hope so I think sort of it’s amazing
Every new season you turn up on how quickly it sort of resets back to you got to win over that trust but I think that’s why it’s such a good thing about having we’ve got an amazing team both in the UK and the us who we sort of move
Around shows and also build that relationship and Trust because they’ve been through it if someone’s good comes through the door at box to box we usually sort of lock them in and keep them there I mean it’s pretty good shows to work on as well but it is how you
Deal with that because it’s not for everyone having to turn up well I was sort of we were really close now all of a sudden like you’re not and you know and you never know what’s going on in their personal lives and that’s our job to obviously unpick that for the story
Story lines but you know when you rock up at the start of a season it’s like reset and actually you got to always remember the number one priority for them is to win sporting event you know they’re not thinking oh I could do the Netflix show you know I don’t think
Anybody really is I think sort of some people understand the benefits of that but their number one goal is their job and their job is to win whether it be you know a race in a form one car or a golf tournament or a rugby match so I
Think sort of we always got to meet that and also know and respect that as well that that that is their priority do you get a sort of designated amount of time with talent and the executives because I guess when it’s all packaged up at the end into sort of Eight Episodes or
Whatever it feels as though they’ve been sat with you for ages and reacting to various different things at various different points in the season but I imagine the time has to be limited because of what you just mentioned there sort of certain techniques that the guys
Behind the camera use to get them to be vulnerable with them and kind of CES out the sort of the the lines that maybe the other interviewers aren’t going to be able to get I think the big thing for us is sort of the beginning before we even
Pick up a camera is having a conversation and saying sort of what’s your story what do you want the world to know about you because a lot of sports narrative is what’s printed well formly in the papers now on sort of sports websites Etc and that’s what everybody
Takes in and sometimes you know I think you know the Brooks keper in season one or whatever I don’t think when Paul sat down with him in the Paras which was the first sort of interview I don’t think we ever realized that he would be in that
Head space and then all of a sudden opens up this amazing sort of narrative so I think that’s the thing is giving that time to sort of if you get it you can’t get it with everyone there’s certain people that you just know their time is precious and you know
Everybody’s time is precious but there’s some that you just know well they’re getting pulled left right and Center so you take what you can take but the ones that do lean in the Jo’s the sort of you know the gunters the Christians Etc historically they will be the ones that
Will give you more and therefore will probably benefit more from the show because it’s a true reflection of their character rather than what we would call be role and interview which is just shots of them doing something that doesn’t really relate to the story which
We’re not in the game to do you know I think sort of there was a story that was telling something the other day of sort of latest series of Drive survive where we had two of the biggest sports stars in the world I think leis Hamilton and
Tom Brady but they weren’t talking about the show they weren’t talking about the narrative that is there was just sort of just them playing golf and in a season one that would probably be enough but now sort of season five or six it’s not they got to make sure cuz I think
There’s an expect ation of the viewer now because of mainly drive and golf and Etc of that every scene is like a drama and it needs to sort of move the story forward so our job as producers is to try and sort of capture that and make
Sure that the teams come back with actually some great story lines how do you set up for success to do that like what goes into making an episode of drive to survive was full swing you have the idea before the teams go out and they do the interviews like tell me
Through that process sort of usually starts with trying to sort of get you know we’re doing at the moment there’s a couple of new first Seasons that we’re doing in U us it starts with zooms a lot of it now it’s amazing like you know
What Co has done really you can get on one of the biggest athletes in the world if they’ve got five minutes and just talk them through the process and that’s key answering their questions and understanding what they’re doing and then I think sort of not necessarily having cameras on straight away
Sometimes we do audio interviews probably giving away a bit of a trick there but you know getting in the head it might be over a coffee a beer but it’s a conversation like this pretty much is bit like a podcast because you’re just asking them whatever and
You’re not their like list of questions and like so tell me about like this and the other next question next question is sort of if they start going down a route you let them go down that route and I think that’s the beauty of these and then sort of obviously the on camera
Stuff is important once we know the story but it allows us to sort of then once they’ve told us their story we can then look for that story through the year so if someone’s going but this is where I think I am this year this is where I’m placing the sort of leadership
Or this is where my my problems are you’re then shooting for that narrative that they’ve already told you is in their head so you’re not just going randomly and Scatter Gun filming whatever you can get so it’s just being a bit focused I think and also like on
Some of our Sports it’s like there’s 150 golfers at a tournament 120 tennis players you can’t cover everything so the teams have to be really focused just don’t pivot all the time it’s like anything you have to have a beginning middle and an end and if all
Of a sudden you got like 2 beginnings and no middles and a couple of ends it’s going to be really hard in the edit so you got to commit and stick there and obviously if there’s a couple that blow up like Windam Clark winning the US Open
Came from nowhere for in our team you know and those stories you got to capture those moments but actually that storyline which it goes back to that formula one thing it’s like coming fifth or sixth can be as powerful as coming first so it’s sticking with that story
If you’ve been following it from the beginning I think is always key because we all want to see the the full Ark of a narrative not just necessarily right the winning moment does Sports make that harder in that like stuff will just happen and then you’ve got to react to
It people obviously probably think it’s pretty easy doing what we do we just turn up at sportting event and it’s happening so we just film it but it is pretty tough when you you know you got to you got to cover your bets a little
Bit and um you know a lot of times you’ll go down and the amount of times directors are like oh that was amazing but you’re like well but it doesn’t relate it was you know I think sometimes as well things will be filmed one year and they just won’t make sense because
There’s no payoffs no sporting payoff but a year later so you have to have these conversations which can be quite hard of like well you’ve given up all this time commitment you’re not in the show but actually we’ve had it now where but a year later that story actually
Pays off so you can use all that footage from previous year and and I think that management and relationships the teams that do that with with F1 with golfers whatever they do an amazing job really and you know sometimes we don’t always capture it and we we forgot about that
Bit but I think that’s the key we don’t see these as sort of like season 1es to season sixes we see them as the 2024 season or 2025 whatever and then things that happened this year may impa next year Etc so hopefully there’s a sort of long-term relationship with the sports
It must be semi annoying sometimes when you’ve invested a lot of time in one of the athletes and you think they’re sort destined to say you know win a major or whatever and it kind of doesn’t quite work out that way but I guess on the on
The other side of that sometimes that makes for a better story right and I think I remember watching season one of full swing for example when you’re following around Matt Fitzpatrick a lot of the time and him coming really close to winning that major and eventually he
Does get that and that kind of plays out over the course of a few episodes and the sort of the buildup to that moment is yeah something that keeps you as a viewer hooked I guess I guess you’re obviously also having to react to the things that happening say on the course
On the court on the track Etc but I suppose in some cases especially with full swing you’re having to react to things happening a lot higher up as you’ve already mentioned just how flexible do you have to be with things like that and also does it maybe make it
A little bit more challenging to get the access you need when things are kind of happening at that governance level I guess because you know Liv and the PGA is such a highly politicized issue it’s you know it’s geopolitical there’s States involved yeah it’s hard for
Anyone to get access to that kind of stuff I think sort of um the PJ tour initially have been they really embraced the show from the beginning and actually from season one Liv did as well you know we went over filmed with the impul and
The guys going over to live and and they were very much part or come in you know let us know some sports know the value more than others I think they definitely did I think this year when they just popped up yaser and Jay popped up on
CNBC and news I think in America it was like my phone went crazy it was n it was 3ish here like 9:00 a.m. or something in the US and nobody knew like we were like talking to our contacts at PGA whatever but then it’s like how did we react to
That you know we had a small team up in Canada at the Canadian open so we could capture that moment it’s like get with Rory and we sent up you know Pat who’s got a great relationship with RI to jump in his car and get that instant reaction
It was then about how do we get down to the PJ headquarters in Jacksonville Florida or near Jacksonville in Florida and get that moment of like Jay Avo explain to some of his senior team and that negotiation happens at quite senior level and but it’s about sort of talking to
You know the powers that be and going well it’s not going to make sense you’re gonna the viewers are going to ask where you were and you can’t give us all everything when it’s positive and then when it’s not nothing so yeah that episode one into two of season two of
Full swing is pretty pretty special and then we’re going through the same thing this week with you know Lewis’s news and and other news that’s that’s broken this week with Formula 1 where it’s like the team’s having to react and find out you know what’s going on with individual
Drivers and again that comes from trust it’s about producers having Rel relationships with you know players drivers agents and going can we be there can we jump on sometimes you’re just luckily you’re there you’re embedded and you’re just filming and something happens other times it is really pushing
To try and say well let’s be there let’s tell your side of the story don’t let the rest of the world tell your story this is what they’ve got they’ve got an opportunity to tell their story so if you want that this is the greatest platform to do it with on Netflix 300
Million subscribers or whatnot so I think that’s the opportunity that you know a lot of these um sports stars or agents understand now you you’re in that position where you’ve got a few of these different projects all going on at the same time like how big’s the team got to
Be how like you when you said there like you were lucky you had a team up in Canada but you had to get someone over to to Florida like logistically how has box to box changed even in the time you’ve been there yeah quite drastically I think it’s about sort of building the
Sort of um the senior team which we’d call that the exact team so each each exact has a couple of shows that they oversee James and Paul are still very Hands-On you know because that’s the sort of DNA of the company and they’ll never let go of Drive survive as the
Baby but Al those season ones of stuff and and Paul’s now in the US and James is based here so I think sort of that but each individual team you know each show has their own core team that only are on that show so they’re not having
To react across Sports you know like the full swing team are only thinking about golf all year the formula one team or anything about for so that means that yeah there’s a lot of bodies but their focus is purely on that Sport and that show and that story and those
Relationships so yeah we had to get a crew down but that was just more that you know we make full swing out of New York and they to get from New York down to Pont VRA or whatever it was so um formula 1’s a bit easier because you
Know most of the teams are in the offseason based just outside of London so it’s just reacting to that quite a lot of bodies but it’s quite a core small intimate unit of people that are really across all of the shows just making sure that there’s that quality
Control and it doesn’t sort of get away from itself Tom mentioned um yeah obviously lots of projects going on for you guys now in the sports space and one of the most recent ones I guess most recent new ones that’s dropped is six nations full contact Eight Episodes of
That released I think it was a couple of weeks ago isn’t it couple of weeks ago yeah yeah I guess just like how how are you guys feeling about how that one came together pretty happy with it first move into rugby yeah I think we’re saying with like James for example James G
Reese that’s the sort of passion project for him rugby is he loves it and and Welsh rugby in particular so I think that’s always had huge attention on it although Formula 1 is essentially a team Rugby’s sort of the first proper team access dock you know cycling as teams
And whatever but really like I don’t think I’ve missed any out but that rugby is like you got that core environment and also it’s a bit different it’s not like Club sport where they’re just there like we were realized in the first season like you don’t even know who’s
Going to turn up who’s going to get selected you know soort of you got all these plans and it’s like who’s going to get CAU up and you usually know from the sort of autumn Internationals and through but I think sort of rugby itself self um understands the value of what
The show can do I think season one there were some tricky sort of access conversations but mainly because I think a few weeks before we started the actual series a couple of the managers or coaches left their jobs and therefore you’ve got new people coming in and with
That they’re like wait a minute I didn’t sign up for Netflix cameras in my dressing room giving a team talk where I’m sort of building a new team or whatever so I think going into this year season two hopefully there’s a trust that’s built and also the the beauty of
Some sports is actually you’ve got like a year to build trust Six Nations you’ve literally got like a month two-month period where the tournament is so sort of short and sweet which has benefits but also in a building a trust scenario I think you’re going see see every
Season that that goes that it will get better and better and better one of the things I’ve as a fan have found kind of interesting to watch from the side is the fact that like as viewers we don’t know whether or not there’s going to be
A next season all the time and and you mentioned it there like you said hopefully on on Six Nations so at what point do you know and how do you prepare for a new season if you don’t know whether or not is going to happen is it
Something that you do know and you’re just not allowed to say no you don’t like I mean Netflix is all about it’s got to rate it’s got to do well you know they’ve got a lot of fans there’s a lot of people paying for their subscriptions so they’ve got to wait for
The numbers to come through they’ve got to watch the show and our shows are great because they drop before the tournaments and then are you going to do it so we have what we call bridging sometimes where you have to sort of start the production but it could easily go well
Actually it’s not going to happen we haven’t had that but I think it will happen one day possibly but I think that’s how you do you get the teams up and then you go and then once the numbers drop or they go right okay we’ve
Seen enough data now to say that it’s a success or it’s popped here whatever then they’ll say right with fully green lighting um but that’s the same when every show I mean Drive survive is is pretty much the same even now going into season seven now you know what I mean so
I think is just the nature of the platforms really they want to make sure that the show is successful I mean drive surviv has had multi-season commissions like two two at a time so you when that happens it’s great because you can sort of like plan in the offseason you can
Get backstory filming so from our perspective it would be easier if you knew there was a couple but you know just know that’s not the luxury really to flip that round like d 5 season 7 do we going to get to season 30 where people before people start getting like
Another season of drive to survive or like you have you seen that yet have you had that kind of feedback of like how do we keep this fresh I watch Premier League football obviously I don’t ever go this is season 20 of the live and I think some sports just lend themselves
To the documentary storytelling and I think sort of Formula 1 it’s a 100% one of those it’s you know some parts of the world watch Formula 1 fire the Netflix show rather than live broadcast and I think as long as we keep you know pushing the boundaries and sort of not
Settling I think that’s the key and we keep pushing stories that’s what’s brilliant about sport is every year there’s a new rookie every year there’s someone leaving it’s why we love it whether it be sort of our football teams or whatever so I think sort of that from
Story telling I don’t think it’s ever like oh we ran out stories because you know it’s in season 20 but you know it’s about freshening our teams up it’s about making sure that those teams aren’t going well I’ve told 8 years of this now you know maybe go off and do another
Show or go and do something else maybe someone else come in and sort of take a new angle at Lewis or someone you know what I mean so I think as long as we’re pushing the boundaries it’d be very easy to go right let’s get comfortable but I
Think also Netflix as well like they don’t rest on it either like they know the success of Drive survive and they want to continue that so the executives at the streamers as well are pushing for more all the time they’re not like oh you just call this in and make it
Another year it’s like no you got to have this you got to have that what you doing you wake up every morning it’s like were we there were we there seen this picture on Instagram that’s the thing now it’s like everybody sees every like were we there you’re like yeah we
Were there we were there it’s okay um so I think um yeah that’s the beauty but it’s because everybody loves it everybody’s passionate and that’s good I guess there are a few people who do think I guess now that you know either every sport kind of has its own
Documentary series or is thinking about having one at least and there are those people who are probably making the point that I guess maybe the one that Tom was leaning towards there is that we’re approaching maybe a saturation point but as you mentioned you know there’s new
Stories to tell every year that’s the that’s the nature of sport it’s it’s unscripted it’s entertaining some will be like you know we’re talking at the moment about sport which is actually more the business side of the sport and how you put things together and and all
Of that and that’s like oh that’s really exciting because it’s like you’re going to get the payoff of the sporting event but actually you were in the room and those deals were being made and no one’s ever seen that so I think there’s always different angles of doing it I just
Think you know people are interested you know people are sports fans and they want to see it are there any um any sports out there that don’t have one yet that you kind of look at and think would blend themselves nicely to this sort of format probably can’t give any way the
One that we’re talking about I was mentioning there that we spoke to Netflix about yesterday really want to get it away because it’s exciting and it’s sort of we’re all quite passionate about that sport I think we’ve got another show that’s coming out this year around um 100 meter sprinting which
Might sound quite Niche but it’s been amazing like the characters in there they’re like prize Fighters boxers lining up but they’re actually sort of running as fast the world fastest humans that’s awesome and I think you know growing up everybody knew lym for Christie and car Lewis and all of the
Big names but sort of Bolt came in and sort of just smashed out the parks and no one really knows the current crop so it’s a great opportunity to understand Shaker who Shaker Richardson is or Noah LI or Fred Curley and you know Zell Hughes Etc so it’s
Like let’s put them on the map and send them into the Olympics so that they’ve got bigger presence because they should deserve it they’re like they are the fastest human on the planet so I think I’m excited about that one you know and I think it’s been announced now so
That’s fine to talk about I mean that kind of goes back to what we’re talking about right start the show doesn’t it like of like what you can do for sports do you ever get beer Sports Properties or individual leagues coming to you guys
And be like can you come and do us we want to turn on this this looks like it all feel like we got a story to tell here there’s a lot of incoming definitely but I think we’ve got to be got to see what’s the story lines there
What the characters like you know you don’t just want to just do everything for the sake of the business you got to make sure that there’s a quality control and that we keep delivering I think you know I said before we start rolling like when we’re chatting the reason golf is
Successful is because it has that bigger political landscape and that pulls you through so it’s about who’s got that at that point as well you know as I said about sprinting it’s like it’s only 100 meter dash but there’s so much more going on there you’ve got the whole
Jamaican Vive you know Southern America it’s sort of then you got you know the current Olympic Champions is Italian and how does that play into it so you got to look at it from a sort of wider lens and go right okay is this story lines
Interesting or is it just like hey this is just another paint by number and we don’t want to do do that as as a business for sure we’ve spoken a lot about I guess you know what box to box can do for sport on this podcast and I guess the Empire that it
Already has had but obviously the move into sports documentary has had a pretty significant impact on box to box as well just kind of like what’s the next Evolution for you guys obviously Sport’s going to kind of remain a core Focus for you but you guys looking at expanding
Into other are yeah we’ve got a music project that we’re really excited about I think we can take our storytelling into other genres as well that Sumit is really exciting there’s hopefully you know a move into some scripted space as well and whether that be you know paralleled unscripted and scripted
Projects that that that so really excit us um you know telling a story but also through the through the sort of um the documentary space but then also doing it as a film or a drama would be really exciting I think that’s where we’re at
At the moment it’s just sort of what can we do because our storytelling has been slightly different and I think sort of that’s what we’re excited about is how can we Implement that into other things and I think the other thing as well is it’s if you look back at the history of
Our Founders and you know they made the maradon film James Senna Amy Etc you know more of that as well more of that sort of big what would be known as feature documentaries you know is definitely on our radar as well so we’re excited about that sort of the next
Couple of years because it feels like we’re in quite a good place you know the sports stuff we want to make sure that that’s where our focus is or my focus as the head of that department but then also thinking how do we do that in other
Areas and tell those stories at the I think that’s what we’re about premium storytelling and dialing it up to 100 and making sure that people enjoy it because at the end of the day we’re making entertaining programs and that’s our sort of core value what is your best
Anecdote from uh your time working on these shows I was on the beach Kelly Slater so 50 years old Legend had never really allowed cameras that much he’ done a sort of documentary but it never really allowed them in the in the moment to to be with him and he’
Watched season one of make a break and we went to Hawaii and we’re on the beach and and he allowed us into his home we followed him that week and at the age of 50 he wins Pipeline and for those that don’t know look it up I mean this wave
Is it’s called a wave of consequence because it can pretty much kill you and I remember being on the beach and we’d followed and it was that thing you said earlier about following a narrative and thinking oh God it’s not we’re on the beach we’ filmed and we had everything
It was like this is going to pay off brilliantly and he was losing to this sort of young rookie that no one really newart outside of Hawaii and there was like 3 seconds on the clock and he gets this W and he disappears into the bar
You think oh he’s done and then he came out I’ve never like honestly the buzz of that beach and how that made you feel it’s not sort of the winning goal in the Champions League final but it felt like it and it was for him and at 50 years
Old he wins the pipeline event yeah rest is history and I think for me obviously they they’ve been across and you know obviously they were there and you know box to box were there at the moment where Lewis loses the title and whatever but for me personally that was just such
A moment that I’ll never forget and then also being with him after the event back at his house feeling because 50 years old you shouldn’t be beating a 20-y old in a barrel in pipe in Hawaii so for me that that was the moment obviously there’s been big moments in in golf as
Well for for that show but um that was the big one I mean it sounds like a pretty fun job that you have I mean I’m sure Tom and I could sit there for like several more hours and uh quiz you about other stories from other documentaries
But appreciate those other things to be getting on with but yeah thanks so much really appreciate you coming down and lifting the lid a little bit and talking to us on the sports spr podcast thanks for having me Thanks
