EP.1 – SEAN TOULON – THE MADE FOR THE RANGE PODCAST

The first episode of the Made for the Range Golf Podcast is finally here and we’ve got a one hell of a guest to jump start the launch of the Podcast.

Sean Toulon has an incredible history in the golf industry. He’s responsible for some of the most famous golf clubs in the history of the game, is renowned for being one of the best personalities in golf, and above all else is a husband and father of three sons.

Now back to work with his wife Kathy and two sons Preston and Tony, Sean and the Toulon crew are embarking on the 3rd life of Toulon Golf with the introduction of their brand new (now released!) lineup of 2024 First Run Collection putters while maintaining a steady stream of small batch releases for the discerning collector.

Jake talks with Sean about his days at TaylorMade and Callaway, how he thinks about golf club design and why decisions he has made in his career happened the way that they did, and gives us a small glimpse into the current state of Toulon Golf now separated from Callaway and Odyssey, carving a new path forward for the company and the family.

For more details on everything Toulon visit their website at toulongolf.com and follow them on Instagram @toulongolf and @seantoulon

As always if you enjoyed the content please like the video and share with your friends. Consider hitting the subscribe button and the notification bell to make sure you never miss an episode.

All righty everybody welcome back to the made for the range YouTube channel and now the made for the range uh podcast of some sort not sure if I’m going to change the title of this eventually there’s probably a heavy chance that I do but for now we’re going to stick with

M for the range podcast I have the absolute pleasure of having Sean tuon as the very first guest on this podcast which uh I mean you know and like I know you you might roll your eyes as I say this again um but I’m a giant fan of

Shawn um Shawn has done so much in the industry that people don’t know and I want dive into a bunch of that today uh and then also we’re now in you know kind of the the third life of Tuan I guess you could say um this time there was no

Feel like a cat yeah there there was no five minute retirement this time uh and we’re we’re diving back into a new breath for to Long which we’ll talk about as we get further into this um but yeah so for if somebody had no idea who

You were which you know uh just let people know kind of how you started in the industry um and then just a high level of where you’ve been throughout and then I’ll get into some of the more specific questions about some of that I’m a golfer just like uh just like you

Are Jake and um you know from like age 12 you know and I think my path um growing up in the midwest my path similar to so many young young kids um I played baseball until I was sure that um I wasn’t going to be a major leager

Which was about 11 the first time I saw a curveball I knew I should become a golfer okay um and uh I just I fell in love with the game at a really early age uh started out as a caddy uh and what struck me was not just the game but

Golfers themselves and the way they really the way they spoke The Way They Carried themselves the way they treated other people there was a reverence to it that was really cool I loved it and then I got to play a lot of golf with my dad

Uh when uh when we could which was typically nine holes Sunday morning and uh I quickly became much better than him he was a very good athlete and a terrible golfer um but I just really took to the game and uh I knew I wanted

To be around golf or in golf at a really really young age so I just followed that path awesome and then so you have you’ve worked at some very large companies you started a couple smaller ones that are uh in the the depths of golf history at

This point and then like we said this is the third breath for Tuan so what was your start in the industry from a let’s say from an equipment standpoint because I know like I said earlier you’re you’re responsible for leading teams or directly responsible for some crazy products that of like legendary products

That people like me or you know guys like WRX kind of guys or guys like Ryan barrath like we still talk about those products right um so what led you down that path because like I don’t care about this the golf swing right care about golf equipment um and it’s there’s

Only select few of us that care so much about the equipment itself right and so it’s always interesting to see like how did you get onto the equipment focused path well I was lucky enough to um go to work for a little startup company right after I finished school I went to

University of Wisconsin and I graduated in December of 82 um and as I said earlier I knew I wanted to be in golf um and I was a a good player but you know certainly not a tour quality player and I was sure I

Didn’t want to be a club pro okay um I thought maybe at first I wanted to be and then decided against that and um so I knew I just loved the game I loved golfers and I especially became really fond of equipment so right when I

Finished school I took a job for a little company believe it or not selling animal head covers okay so sure um for a uh just just a wonderful Korean fell that owned this company um called exm Sports and um you know it it wasn’t the very the sexiest Beginnings to a career

I wouldn’t think but uh I went out and I sold these animal head covers everywhere my territory was pretty much anywhere I could go I was living in Madison Wisconsin uh at the time did a really good job and about six months into it um

I got a call um from uh a fellow named Steinbach who passed a couple years ago just a wonderful man asking if I might be interested in applying for an opening for this little tiny startup company called tailor made and um so I said sure

I’ I’d love to so they were based in mcken McKenry Illinois uh not that far about hour and a half Drive actually I was living in Milwaukee at the time um so I went uh and visited tailor made like the next day and I met John uh who

Was great and I met this man that I would say forever I get emotional um forever changed my life and um he was the guy that founded tailor made um and he was just one of those guys Jake that was just so instrumental in so many things

But he was so um inspirational to me his name was Gary Adams uh and uh Gary took me under let me slow down for a second I got the job right so I interviewed two days in a row um and uh I had lunch with

Gary and um I just fell in love with this guy he was one of those guys Jake that whenever he spoke whatever he spoke about you came away so excited so energized so positive and just you know believing you could kind of do anything right so he had this tiny little company

Which they forgot to tell me when I got the job was about an hour from being bankrupt that would have been good information to know kind of glad I didn’t know uh but when I started with Taylor Made it was about $12 million uh in revenue and my territory was

Wisconsin Minnesota North and South Dakota and humbly I will say I I did a phenomenal job and uh became one of the most decorated salesmen in tailor made history which is something that um means a lot so um I would say that’s that’s how I really got started with it and being

Around Gary I you just started to believe that you were capable of doing almost anything so that’s how I got involved in the equipment side of it um and then you know I got to learn more and more and more and more about equipment and I think what set me apart

From so many of the other really good salespeople and there were tons of them was I dug so deep in into the equipment that I not only knew everything about our equipment I knew everything about everybody’s equipment so um I’m sure I knew more about equipment of other

Companies than those reps did and it was just important to me to for my customers to see me as the Undisputed expert and that was important and and I worked hard to be that well and there’s there’s also there’s a lot of Truth built into that too because there are times where you

Know when you talk about equipment the right way it’s not about what equipment is better than other equipment it’s about what equipment is best for that person that you’re trying to get it in the hands of or or the pro that’s going to sell it to the guys at their qu or

Whatever the case may be and there’s so many different Avenues and I think that’s what I’m trying to to portray the most with what I’m doing now is it’s I I haven’t done and I won’t do a comparison like brand over brand because for me the the brand can sell themselves but the

Person needs to know from a technology standpoint and from an engineering standpoint why one head was made the way it was and another one was and why which one of those would be better for them so from a from an equipment standpoint it’s always such an interesting conversation

Because it’s and I’ve talked to other guys in the field in the golf industry about this of focusing on the engineering and the equipment of it and like almost battling the marketing at the same time because the marketing can usually take it One Direction and that’s great for a retail environment or for

Like an online environment where they’re trying to just get a a sale out of it directly but when you talk about people playing better golf it matters what equipment they play and and knowing the equipment that they play so you had a you had a really long run at tailor made

Then you ended up what was your what was your final title at tailor made Executive Vice President of you’re just Executive Vice President of everybody I yeah I guess you could I was Mark King’s right-and man I would say yeah but I was really in charge of all of the product

And what was the what was the first product that you can say you had the majority of ownership over tell exactly what it was it was 300 series so when I came back um Mark had just been appointed president um and I had an 11 and a half month stint at Cobra um

Working for a Christian which is a wonderful company it was a terrible fit for me okay um but that was that was a Kush cob right when there was that little overhang I report directly to Wally Uline and Wally was amazing um but as a tailor guy um I was just from Gary

I was wired to believe that you could do anything and that the best time to do it is now and um the other companies that you know I either worked for or was around had a very different attitude and uh you know we just we thought we could

Take the World by storm so my very first product um and I can remember to the day um so I started this is amazing actually my first day back uh was January 3rd um 2000 it was the day after Gary Adams died um so you know one of the things

That that I felt was important was that Gary was really honored and remembered right and and you know I am a big I’m a big believer in fate and and I don’t think that date was by accident and um you know I wanted to I wanted to make sure that tailor

Maid would find its rightful place in the history of the game so anyways um so I got to work and uh you know everybody was expecting tailor made in 2000 to come up with a new driver because that’s what they did right um and so I started to as I got there I

Started to um rumage around R&D and there’s some incredibly brilliant people there one of them Beno Vincent who was in charge of R&D uh and another guy named dick ruggy who who left shortly after I got there uh to go and uh run take on the equipment role at the USGA

But um so I started to look and see you know what are we working on and what do we have and what are your thoughts and and W French uh in so many ways uh said to me uh we have a a new new device or

We have a new thought it’s called um uh NCC I said oh that’s cool what does it stand for new club concept I said okay marketing guys haven’t hit this yet so maybe there’s some Goods here so what is it and and it was really um a very

In-depth study on different types of golf swings and what type of of equipment white might work for those right and what they found was there were really three buckets of players um so the way I look at things and and began to create it’s um it’s a

Quote from Steve Jobs on what do how do creative people come up with ideas and and jobs will say when I talk to the most creative people it’s almost like they’re somewhat ashamed because maybe they didn’t really have the idea but they were able to take their life’s uh

Experiences and have them as little dots or data points that they could draw on right and the people that I would say have become the most creative and I would humbly lump myself in there would be the people that are able to connect those dots right absolutely uh to take

Current information draw things that maybe they heard or learned or experienced and put them together in some new unique in in fresh ways so NCC was this cool idea and I said okay well how are we going to determine what a player is oh one player

Is hands one player is body in a very French accent one player is this I said that’s all cool but how do we find out we do not know well that is a problem right so how are we going we need a piece of diagnostic equipment if that’s

What we’re going to do so that was a super interesting thought and idea um but there was no way shape or form was it was it ready so I started to think more about the marketplace and the marketplace at the time there were three really powerful drivers one was a 975d

Yep uh one was a ping tysi and one was the Callaway um big berth at the time and if you looked at the launch conditions that each one of these clubs produced was very different the n 75d was sort of um low launch sort of a low

Spin um the and you know was really good for faster swing speeds and ball speeds which you know there weren’t really launch monitors at the time right I mean there were this was pre-t trck man this is 200000 um and then there was uh the Callaway driver which was sort of a mid-

Lunch pretty spinny driver um so guys that would use that would be Ernie Ells like that driver um Jim furick like that driver it was not the biggest subset but it was a powerful one and then the final one was the Ping tii driver which was a

Monster at the time wasn’t the prettiest thing so you know that didn’t help it uh but it was sort of this thing that was hidden so taking the experiences that I talked about so here’s this concept called NCC and there’s different types of swings and different and you know I

Had just come off of zil golf which you know I’d spent seven years really being around fitting golfers to proper equipment and developing systems and thoughts and you know your brain is just in that zone um so I had all of that information I

Had what Ben W had just told me and then the marketplace is telling you one driver fits none yeah and if you’re going to do a good job um maybe we we need to do something different so longwinded answer to my very first product I wrote the product plan on

January 11th so on my eth day at the office um we created what was known as the 300 Series 300 320 360 everybody was expecting tailor made to come out with one and it was like holy yeah three well and we and and this was at a time

Too where like the the the uh what’s I would say the the stock shaft conversation wasn’t really a thing like it was it was way more about you would switch Brands to switch heads to switch launch conditions rather than what we everybody knows now as pretty much everybody has three some have four

Buckets of drivers but then even you know within those drivers like the biggest nerdiest thing that I get into is shafts and and we know that you know within those buckets of drivers you can also adapt those drivers into sub buckets of those buckets it’s it’s

Gotten so crazy now which is great for everybody right it’s it’s great for the game of golf it lets people play better Golf and but at the time with the the launch of the 300 series I think like obviously I wasn’t I I wasn’t in golf around then I’ve just heard the stories

From everybody about that time but the the 300 series is also you know when people make media and they’re like hey let’s hit an old driver like everybody it’s almost all of those videos is using a 300 series because right of times it still keeps up like whenever somebody

Goes back and it’s like let’s compare today’s technology to Old technology like everybody uses their 300 series for those comparisons well if you can find an r360 R meaning um RNA which was when they bifurcated CLR the r was hot hotter like 860 help yourselves it’s a good one it

Still going to hold up yeah um so then from the from the launch of the 300 um what was the what was the last product that you had your name on at tailor made I know that it was probably something that actually came out after you had officially left tailor made but what

What was that product M1 and M2 okay so that’s what I thought I just wanted to clarify and make sure on that because I think that that is my my statement for most people is you’re I think more popularized by your work with cway because your name was on everything

Physically right like everything physically said Tuan um and and people really associate you with those Putters but like the Zeo story sometimes gets lost and I think the the metal work at Taylor Maid and there was we’ll talk about some of the pter work to Taylor

Made too but the the metalwoods work at tailor mid was phenomenal I mean you go all the way from our the 300 series everything with an Ron on it even R15 which I’m not going to give you too much junk about but sweet spot of a you know

Of a fingernail but uh we didn’t we weren’t perfect it was I I would argue that within that span I think R15 might have been the only the only miss honestly like everything else did a really really good job and the R15 was perfect for the tour

Guys like and that was so my introduction to to the golf equipment space was right at the launch um basically of R15 so my very first introduction into golf was Jordan spe winning three Majors Jason day being world number one and the the tailor made team at that time was Jason day Dustin

Johnson and then that was like right as the Nike stuff ended so Rory was coming on board like Taylor Made had the most incred that was when Sergio was still extremely relevant it’s like they combined The Beatles in their Rolling Stones it was it was wild what Taylor

Maid’s tour staff was at that moment in the you know 15 to 17 basically and so my introduction was with uh my my first driver was a used uh R1 because I thought that the uh very Advanced technologically amazing soulle plate adjustability was really cool super cool

Yeah um and and then I went to I played a exclusively a tailor driver all the way through M2 basically and then I later found out that all of that stuff was kind of Under the Umbrella of one man and then that was when the uh the equipment Obsession started and that’s

Where my admiration for you and the the under appreciation I felt of like the stuff that you’ve been responsible for whether it was directly or with teams um because I know you’re also you’re you’re a very big team guy like you’re never one that’s going to shut down the rest

Of your team I know that so um you can tell that to Tony and and Joe and Preston sometimes yeah well Preston has his own accoes that I would give him but I don’t need to have him smile too much back there um but so walk us walk us

Through the evolution of that from cuz there’s so much in there right and we don’t have time eventually I think we’ll do a whole another one of these just about 300 M2 but there was so much evolution in there so first off the White driver was giant so can we talk

About that release how the heck did that come up can I go back to one thing wherever you need to um because I I feel like I left something okay out on the 300 series what that became a Smash Hit um and Taylor Made this is when you know

You have a product problem um when I got there they had 27 staff players paid to play the driver and the average count Daryl survey count was seven which means there’s 20 guys not thring their contract and yeah so that usually means you got an issue right and Gary Adams

Told me a long time ago tulon just remember one thing products don’t lie they either work or they don’t and if they work the marketplace will figure that out and if they don’t the marketplace will figure that out right uh um so what Beno and his team were

Able to do on the 300 series so basically what we did is the 300 was to go directly against the 975d sure 320 against the Callaway driver and the Ping driver um we we needed a club that would take that down that was the 360 what

Benois had neglected to tell us is they were just starting to sniff around this concept of Co and what we had were drivers that were amazingly fast compared to everybody else not not only did they fit each golfer better but we had a better 975d we had a better

Callaway and we had a way better ping tisi I got a call from one of the best club professional players in the country who I had happened to to know and uh and know well to this day his name is Brett upper he played the tour for eight years

And I came to my office and my little red light on the phone is ble is um lighting up and so I had a message I play it back he says Tulie I know this is going to sound ridiculous but I just got this driver

And I swear to God I think I’m 50 yards longer with this driver and it was a 360 um with the fujur siix shaft um and he he got ahead and he took it to Mark Tims and this is right up your alley budy yeah oh yeah took it to Mark Tims

He put in this Fuji 6 in it um and that driver lit up Scottdale and it was called the tailor made 804 and I said why in the world is it called the tailor made 804 because that’s what we charge people for it and this is in the year

2000 and I’m telling you it was crazy but back to the whole thing about okay as I’m writing the product plan for um the 300 series it was um all golfers need something that fits them specifically um and a given Club is only capable of producing one set of launch

Conditions which is why one’s no good but three made a lot of sense and as soon as I I swear to God as soon as I put that down on the piece of paper that one a club is only capable of producing one set of launch conditions I thought why

Yeah why would that be or more importantly what if it could change and that day the next day we started work on the r seven quad movable weights right so movable weights was was born through the 300 series but that was the The Genesis of the idea was what if

Right and if you could move that amount of mass into different positions of the club head you could change it and I was at um in 2004 I was at wenworth for the European tour launch of the R7 quad we got there on Tuesday got out on

The Range on Tuesday by Wednesday by Wednesday we had 42 drivers committed in play in one day it became the dominant number one Play driver on tour one day it was amazing so that was super cool yeah I so speaking of art seven um so I actually have over last five six months

I have accumulated all of the r seven models and I have them all uh and the the biggest thing about r s I think was that was a it was the first time that there was the the the sub buckets of the buckets right because the movable way technology obviously you could transfer

It between the head and maybe fit somebody slightly unique for that head but to me it was actually it looking back it seems like it’s really the first time that there was a CG story in a lineup of heads because because if you look at something like the R7 draw right

The shape of that thing from the bottom is so unique and actually until the recent launch of qi1 Max which is their you know 10K whatever one now right and the first thing I said to the guys at the Kingdom when I picked it up and

Turned it over I was like wow this is this is very R seven drawish and the one fitter looked at me and he was like yeah yeah it’s pretty it’s pretty similar to that shape and because they just they just cut out of the toe basically they

Were like look why why are we trying to make the soul of something look good instead of making the performance that we need out of this to be very specific for that player and the evolution of that now obviously is like that has now bled into every manufacturer and

Everybody has three again sometimes four buckets of that golfer now and the the Catalyst of that being what you guys did at Taylor Made those driver is really really cool and the the tour story used to be way more prevalent to too right we had like when that occurred on tour for

You guys with with R7 it bled into what became the big tour story that I knew of R15 and the guys that were playing it in the stories on tour right nowadays just like not to jump around too much but what do you what do you see now with

Equipment because the the tour stories are I would say less prevalent now right it is there’s a lot less people concerned about what a tour player is playing and that’s so that’s side A of question side B is what are what are your thoughts on guys like like K morawa

Right K morawa played a driver model through four years of his contract without switching into the new one what what does that do to a product specialist or an engineer or an R&D person at those companies does it anger them or does it invigorate them to to

Really just keep trying to to do better because a top 10 player in the world is not switching right well it should do both right so right off the get-go um you should be disappointed you should be um you should be angry but not at him

You should be angry at yourself I go back to what Gary said products don’t lie so Colin wasn’t using it because it wasn’t demonstrably better right to to use a elely Callaway phrase so um if it’s if it’s not working better I why would you change right I wouldn’t so um

That means you you got a lot of work to do so you haven’t you haven’t figured it out um you know I got I got invited this is years ago probably 2008 um to be on a panel to talk about equipment um at St Andrews and on the

Panel was Kyle Phillips who designed um Kings Barns and many great golf courses Robert Trent Jones was there who was very cool um the uh somebody was there from the RNA I can’t I can’t remember it may have been Martin Slumbers um but anyways there so it was a pretty distinguished panel and

And it was really about equipment and has equipment gone too far and and this was in 2008 yeah oh wow so they were yeah even at that time they thought equipment was going too far and now we’re dealing with rollbacks so I had a book which I I probably left there by

Accident right um but started but so I was the bad guy right because I was the equipment guy right and everybody else was pretty much anti-e equipment which I am way okay being the bad guy in a situation like that but I had a book

That was uh and I read a passage in the book and the IT the passage was basically um I’ll paraphrase thankfully all of the great uh and uh powerful ideas to change and improve equipment have been exhausted cost it and I read that and then I read the date that it

Was written and it was written in 1925 right and then you know so it’s been the ongoing battle right it’s been the ongoing thing um and when these companies work and don’t get a breakthrough um that just means they haven’t looked in the right spots but they haven’t looked hard enough and if

You look at what Callaway is doing now um with AI and the iterative process that they can go through I mean literally tens and tens of thousands of iterations in you know two weeks they can go through to find out an answer right so now their output is only as

Good as their human inputs on what they’re asking the algorithms to to do uh but the equipment is going to continue to get better and better and better and better and that’s the governing bodies know that and that’s what they’re afraid of to some extent they should be but to answer your

Question um they should be upset and they should be invigorated uh because they haven’t either looked hard enough or they haven’t looked in the right spots sure okay so then uh just zoom in back then so white driver story what how the heck did that

Happen um it was the genius I would say and he doesn’t get credit for it but I would say the the Genesis of of the idea was from Mark King and what Mark said is you can do it any color that you want tulon but it can’t be black uh because

It just they just all look the same which was really interesting and I’ll I tell you why it became so important so literally we did um prototypes in 15 colors um a beautiful beautiful sort of a candy sort of Ferrari red but candy um I have a yellow one I think in Tony’s

Office here that was sort of I actually played that driver for a long time that was really cool um we did one called Escalade white which was sort of a pearly white and then you know we did all these different on Silver charcoal but the one when we put them out in

Front of people were that would freak people out cause all of the emotion was the white one and not the Escalade one it was Matt white yeah it was a matte white when we did it in a gloss white it looked pretty feminine and they the the person that

Really came up with the I with the concept of let’s try it in Matt was Tom olavsky who’s now at Cobra right who worked for me for years and just a wonderful guy but um but it was all of these people and but King was the one

Who drove it it can’t be this and um and then we just kept putting these different ideas in front of people you know we didn’t put it in front of you know focus groups and things like that because no nobody’s going to say I want a white driver I mean we already knew

That right but what is the like turn no right I but but if you know you put it in front of Martin kimer um who is not a backs slapping funny German guy right he’s a pretty serious guy or put it in front of Nick falo which we did at the time and

They just said oh my God I think that thing is awesome put it in front of Sergio Garcia over and over again and and I told King these these tour players they love this thing so the really cool thing about it because you talked about the tour earlier is Taylor would always

Have about 60 drivers in play darl survey like year after year after year after year which was a dominant number one um and when we got our 11 done the White driver and put it out on tour we had exactly 60 drivers in play so we had the exact same amount but when

The head cover came off of Luke Donald who was then or um was number one in the world and it wasn’t a Muno but it was a white driver not a black one they knew it was a tailor made right and all of a sudden when you started it was like that

Poor offensive lineman who jumps offside two G two plays in a row and they call his number number 71 blah blah blah the poor guy everybody knows yeah that schmuck did it again right so um when people saw the White driver 60 of them it looked like the PGA Tour was a tailor

Made sales meeting it was crazy and the thing our business just went from here like that it just it it exploded wow I had I didn’t I was just with uh too uh couple weeks ago doing content Co ride it I had no idea he was involved in that

In that decision so that’s really next time I see him I’m going to bring that up and talk to him about it that’s really cool um okay so so white driver exploded White driver lasted through M2 cuz M yeah M4 M5 it was silver we had actually moved away from the White

Driver for SLDR um so I I had a white SLDR though but it wasn’t the like retail it wasn’t the it wasn’t the first launch cuz it was the normal SLDR was it was like a matte gray on top I wouldn’t call it silver it was it was a charcoal gray but

It wasn’t matte okay um it was magnificent I thought it was beautiful was a really interesting Club um it was a great club for a good player with speed yeah well in SLR 440 is one of those things that people still like to this day like I know Ian Fraser is one

Of those guys Ian Ian and I have talked about lcdr 440 because that’s still the like if you can find somebody that can hit that thing out of the middle right and and plus like again this is we could have a whole tailor made talk by itself because like the sld marketing campaign

Of Loft up like that was so cool I still remember those days uh that actually we had a bunch of guys win with 12 degree lost to drivers a bunch cuz well DJ was in 12 degrees when he was playing and that’s the last person you think would

Be in something that high often um that actually brings up a good point though so there was a a time period with tailor made where there was a uh I guess the right way is like a Premiere line but then there was a bonded line too right

So when they became adjustable there was also a bonded so I believe uh SLDR was attached to Rocket balls originally and then the one that I remember the most is R15 and then it had Arrow burner as the the bonded now that one is funny to me because there was a

Bunch of Arrow burners on tour which I don’t think was the point I think having R15 must tour the best product always wins right yeah um so what what’s the Catalyst of of that because you had buckets with the the premier line we’ll call it and then with the bonded stuff

What was what was the reasoning for that like why offer a bonded driver because that’s when people started making a lot of um cost price right so as soon as you begin to add complications whether it’s a putter or a driver they become more expensive right and Driver prices were

Starting to get up there pretty high so um you know then it was um you know there was typically a 3.99 or even a449 or something like that and then there was a need in the marketplace for maybe something that was cheaper so so something like

$2.99 um and you’ll remember when um we did the the bomber and the technician which was um R seven um and I maybe it was R seven super quad and then a burner I can’t remember the one it was now but it was if you were a bomber you just

Grabbed a driver and you know swung for the fences hit as hard as you could and it w and what was really interesting is the tour was sort of bifurcating so there was a guy like um Mike Weir is a perfect example when you would watch

Mike Weir whether um you were at the golf course with him or at a photo shoot or whatever talk about the driver it was like you know it goes this way or this way or this way and he would talk very specifically um and he wasn’t trying to

Hit um a fairway he was trying to hit specific parts of a fairway right so he was very much a technician and ratif gusen is Sergio definitely a technician right um and the in the ad we had one of the ads was Sergio hitting it this way

With an R seven with an adjustable driver and and Goose hitting it the other way bomber um with with a burner of some sort right yeah and what um what it was it so I was so struck by the Stark differences that we started to look at designing clubs not just through numbers

But we started to look really through the psychographics of a golfer right and so somebody that was a technician they looked at the world differently and and the the way the clubs were designed because I led the graphic or the industrial design in graphic design teams as well we started to really

Design the clubs so that they would match sort of the psychology of the different type of golfer so if you remember burner clubs Burner clubs were more overtly um designed with graphics and things like that on the top absolutely right and the our clubs for the most part were not so we really

Started to design as much for a mindset um as we did for numbers that was pretty cool and it was really successful wow um okay so then so that we don’t sit here for three hours um okay so Putters now I know that that started at Taylor M um so

I I do want to talk a little bit about that because I again I think that is an area that people probably don’t understand the things that you could get accredited for um and I think some people very surprised by those products and then obviously as you moved into

Your your five minute retirement before going into callway so talk to us about the the tailor made side of Putters and what you did there again we can go pretty high level with this and then because I want to I want to jump into

The new the new two on to yep so tailor made you know was a driver company um and then was starting to become an iron company but was you know nowhere to be found in Putters and um we wanted to do something that was noticeably different

So there was the whole creation of Rosa I I enjoy cars yeah um so there was a a definite sort of Nod to Ferrari at least um and we developed this insert that was um made out of a special grade of aluminum that included some titanium in

It and uh and it was able to be anodized so we anodized it red but it was basically taking weight out of the middle of the Putter and and you know increasing the inertia we spent a lot of time uh getting the shapes right and I

Spent a lot of time working with a gentleman named Kia ma which I think a lot of people probably don’t know but Kia was one of the great sort of putter Builders um not so much a designer but a putter Builder and mechanically kind of knew how they went together and could

Understand really well intricacies of shape and radi and blends and how to do all of that and just was a wizard at kind of tying the whole package together so Rosa was created and uh and started to Rel gain some traction and then that spilled over into this agsi insert which

Was an insert to create more forward role uh which was great and then um we worked hard to develop a mallet that we felt could could really you know look different but but performed differently and we created spider and my first um my first experience with spider was

With Jim furick uh and I met Jim at Cog Hill during the Western open oh okay and uh and I had the first prototype of the spider and uh and Jim loved Putters and we’re on the putting green uh and he hits the first putt with it

And it had the agsi insert in it as well but it was crazy high inertia it was just a magnificent product and he hit the first Putt and he said oh my God I said what’s wrong he says is the ball supposed to hug the ground like that I

Said well it is a yeah I mean it’s kind of what you’re looking for but but you could hear the role was was better um so that was really cool and um you know that that took off like like crazy and I had Monumental battles with the marketing department to put money

Against the U the pter category specifically spider because our account was going like this and I remember at one point Bob majori was running marketing uh which I wasn’t so he had control of that budget and I said major you either start running ads or I’m

Going to do them myself so you pick and K King was he said that’s awesome I mean there’s so many so this is this is I’m not sure what the the right question here is but that that has to to sit with you some certain way that you

Are responsible in some way shape or form for products that now like I’ll use ping as an example right the answer shape everybody’s got their own version of an answer shape now but like that happened with spider and and I don’t think that that I don’t think it’s evolved quite far enough

Right like the answer shape has been so historic on so long but spider is is growing in its um age essentially and you have spider shapes from multiple manufacturers now and and it’s not like a hidden thing it’s the companies will say like look everybody’s got their

Version of an answer shape and now we all have to have our our versions of the spider shape because or the number seven exactly there’s examples of it but for for you personally right and and talking to your wife and your sons and stuff it’s it’s hard to realize that influence

Right and and I don’t think you do it for influence I I I don’t get that from you ever for anything that you I I see you do but that that does have to sit with you in some way it’s like knowing that there’s this whole branch of golf

That has happened because of you like does it I I don’t I just don’t know how that would make me feel so I’m I’m trying to figure out how that like how that sits with you yeah well number one thanks for for the question the easy answer for me is I

Don’t care yeah I I I thought that was what you were G to say I I don’t I only care about what we do next and you know I don’t collect things I don’t have you know a whole bunch of things in a locker Tony does for sure my son I’m glad Tony

Does cuz if you didn’t nobody would have him and then all this stuff would be lost but I only really care about what we’re going to do next and how we’re going to get something that excites the golfer and nothing gets me more excited

Than when we do a new now Putter and we put it in front of a golfer and they just go oh my God and you know it’s really simple the we’re looking to create an emotion and if I had to sum it all up in one m in one word it’s lust

That when you look at it you know when you think about these Putters that we do whether it’s small bag our upcoming 2024 collection you know we’re selling these Putters to you know a lot of our customers and clients you know they have a bunch of Putters right so they don’t

Really need it right but when they look at it and we’ve done our job really right they just look at it and they go like I have to have this right my life will be better only if I have that in it and that’s what we’re trying to do right can we make

These things so exquisitly beautiful that you have to have it right so there’s a there’s an old thing that I learned long long long ago again from Gary was people buy with emotion and justify with logic and the emotion that we’re looking for again is like oh my God and and if

I go into a golf shop and I look at a club that somebody did um and it’s done really well I’ll buy it yeah because it’s just like that hats off man that is or lady um that is really really good work that gets me excited yeah so I have

I have uh I have one more spin-off question of what you just said that I’ve been waiting for a good time to ask but then I also then we can finally we’ll get into your your five minute retirement the original 2on design the cway version of that as well as

Obviously I do want to get into what we’re doing now um what is what’s the product that had it doesn’t matter when it was released it can be as old as you want want what is the product since you’ve been in the industry that has come out that you didn’t do that you

Were like damn like I wish I had my name on that ap2 iron oh that’s a great answer yeah okay and and what about that got you as excited as you clearly are about it just the the entire concept of it was and I guess maybe they’ve sort of

Recreated that with this t150 but um the the idea of a company that is so traditional beginning to embrace technology and new thinking which you wouldn’t say that’s what they do best right um respectfully I mean they do all kinds of things best um but that

Wouldn’t be the thing that you would say oh my God they that is the most Innovative company they they don’t come up in that yeah no that’s not that um which doesn’t mean they’re not capable but but that’s not how people think of them but that iron um was a different

Way to look at providing performance for a better player and I just think when when that came out it was like yeah that that became the iron a lot of people chased basically agreed it was it’s funny that you say that the t150 example because I was talking to

Mikey from txg the other day actually and it was well it wasn’t the other day it was when the release of the new T Series came out we both hit them and and I called Mikey and we were talking about and I told him I was like look I the 150

Is not for me but the player that it’s for is going to be phenomenal and I was like I just I can’t quite figure out why this feels the way it feels and his first thing he was like dude in in 10 years when we’re talking about equipment

Stuff he’s like we are right now realizing the launch of the new ap2 and I was like that is such a good way to put it because it’s it’s not just us that’s felt like that too I know that a lot of people have made that comparison

Um okay so then jumping into to tulon as a brand so you retired from Taylor M basically you went to bed you woke up you unretired and you started to on design I know that’s not exactly the story but for lack of a better way of saying it Tony and Joe really started

And asked me to join okay right um and it was really interesting because I had just finished playing round of golf with Scotty and um came had we had a wonderful day together and sort of rekindled a friendship that was strained because of you know competitive stuff and you’re member guest Champions

Together a long time ago I think I’m going to use that is going to be the the the first social clip from this podcast is Sean Tuan and Scotty Cameron are member guest Champions together at Shadow a long time ago 30 years ago I

Got to go take a shot of that that photo and put it in here the trophy’s still there uh anyways and I came home and uh tone and Joe said uh hey what do you think about this idea and they laid out the whole plan and I saidwell let’s

Think about it a little bit more and it was to do really high-end M Putters and compete against Scotty and the part of it that uh was weird is 45 minutes before that I was having a beer with him um and then but when you really dug into

It you know there are other people that were making nice Putters at the time but Scotty was a dominant number one and then bardy would would have been a number two but is it we felt like we could bring some things to the table um that would allow us to move quicker

Than it would be in other other categories and um it’s something that both Tony and Joe and now Preston were really passionate about so uh and so so am I um because there’s so much more freedom and art that can go into a putter than uh you know a mallet you

Mallets can look like anything blades not quite as much but mallets can be anything so that part was really cool we dug into it started to do our work um and and came up with a plan that we felt like we could execute and more importantly we felt like the golfer

Would care about it and uh we were right that’s awesome and then so you had you had Tony and Joe with you through the the start of tuon design and my wife C who was basically running the you know all the operations of the company which

Is amazing yeah and she is amazing shout out to Kathy um yeah she’s been so nice like just side note I’ve had so many conversations the last couple days now she’s just so nice like she’s just such a lovely woman yeah she’s she’s awesome um well and there’s there’s definitely there’s a

Balance within the Tuan family as well like I have from an Outsiders perspective I I have uh and I have experience with Joe too like i’ I’ve talked with Joe and connected with Joe about other stuff and like there’s definitely a balance within this fil and

It’s great because you guys all feed off of each other I think that you guys all have very unique strengths and nobody um I haven’t seen anybody within the especially with the new stuff of trying to like overlap or trying to go into something that is not their their thing

Like it seems like there’s a lot of um there’s you’re a very race race race person right like you’re you’re kind of like me where you need the component that slows you down sometimes but at the same time if you weren’t the way you are to keep going the stuff that you’ve done

Probably wouldn’t happen right there’s and I I need that in my life too like I I’m the person that’s thinking I had somebody make the joke the other day we were talking about made for the range and what I was doing and I laid out this

Like beautiful plan to get to where I want to be in 5 years and he looked at me and he’s like what are you doing on Tuesday I was like I don’t know no I do like no clue like I’ll figure that out on Tuesday um and so it’s it’s you know

There’s a there’s a perfect balance here and we we’ll get into that when we talk about the new tuon but so the years the years at cway uh you had Joe and Tony Joe is now the the manager of all tour it might his title might be fancier than

That now I I don’t know exactly what his title is but he basically uh is in charge of the PJ tour for Callaway yeah cuz Cody is now the rep used to be the rep and now rep um so now we have he’s just doing a wonderful job there really

Proud of him yeah and and you’re you’re work at cway I know that you didn’t necessarily work on the teams like directly for some of the other product outside of Odyssey and Tuan but you were I would say you probably got consulted on most of the stuff that I ran all

Um industrial design for all products there so in in many ways I had the same job there that I did at Callaway oh see I thought it was just for Odyssey okay and and then I was also of course general manager of Odyssey running all

Of Odyssey so yeah but so I was involved and in charge of industrial design for all products um and um heavily heavily involved in all the product strategy stuff so that’s what that’s epic epic flash through started with epic okay oh with just with just epic okay so you

Were year I got there right um a year late then right when we were kind of making the final changes to the product sure um and uh was able to to do a couple of things on that one yeah and then everything after that’s actually really interesting because I S so after after

M2 um I went epic flash Subzero and I have since then played a cway tour driver nice which is just super convenient that that was is when you switched over as well um that’s actually hoers I did not I didn’t realize that until this point um because I I I

Honestly I thought it was just the The Odyssey stuff just cuz again I think that’s how people know you now because your name is physically on those products um with with the work that Tony and Joe did over there too so moving through the evolutions of of cway um in

Instead of getting into the whole thing like get do with tailor made what’s the what’s the one thing that really stands out to you from the years that you guys spent with the cow Odyssey team the the R&D um at Callaway is so robust um and so

Resourced um and um important to to that company um it’s amazing I mean there’s there’s nothing like it Taylor M’s got great R&D they don’t have what Galloway has tius has got great R&D and I’m not privy to what tiess looks like now and golf ball and things like that but I can

Just tell you that um the capabilities and resources that Callaway allocates towards R&D is mind-blowing and they’re they’re amazing so I was with you um when the what is now called AI M was Tu on ai ai TI I think was like the full name at the start of it or something

Like that uh um and I was with you hitting the very first iteration of a Chicago that had the AI face with it and I I now realize you you’re a very passionate person about all your products you get very very excited about pretty much everything that comes out

But I had not up until that point so basically two years into the industry at that point with all these reps all these company uh Executives and all these people that I had talked to about the products I had never seen an individual so excited about something so that work

With AI what did that mean to to cow it because it seems like like they had AI jailbreak but it doesn’t seem like AI jailbreak hit this the ceiling of what cway really wanted the AI stuff to be and to me with everybody that I knew at

Callway and still know it felt like the The Innovation to the the topography on the back of those putter faces was the moment that like they felt like the AI was finally giving them the years and years of R&D that they put into it yeah I think just in general Jake um the

Callaway team is learning um I would say daily on on what they on how AI can impact their business and and the performance of their products um and it’s only as good as the inputs so um and then the computing power and um so they’re they’re learning and they’re

Going to continue to get better and better and better which means they’re also going to get faster and faster and faster and it will be a competitive Advantage it is already and I think it’s only going to just continue and a lot of companies are now saying you know ai ai

Ai and I can tell you um it’s not the same yeah they they wrote their press release with AI now the whole thing is influence ba yeah um so okay so now we are in the the third iteration of of Tuan as its own company so we had the

Stint alone now at a cway and now back alone so now we’re to on golf um what is what what’s the Catalyst for why this needed to exist I guess that’s that’s a weird way of asking that question but um to to leave cway

And to to move back to doing it on your own right I think that’s a for a lot of people that would be a really not weird but a a lot of people would feel like that was a a step back and it’s not and that’s that’s kind of

Where I want hit I’m sure a lot of people would think that yeah so let me answer the question this way um one and I’m not comparing myself other than age to this man just so you know that uh when I was contemplating it um

At age 63 it’s like why would you do that um elely Callaway was 63 years old when he founded Callaway golf so think about and again you I’m not saying I’m elely kellway any stretch of the imagination but at that age um you’d think why would

You do it and he did and other people have and I have a ton of energy and and a lot of excitement so um number one and knock on by the way this is a camp Randle table Bucky Badger Bucky Badger shout my little sister went there and

You know that but so shout out to my my little sister for um but the the um I have a lot of energy and and I’m in good health and and you know so I I feel awesome um and I feel like there’s a lot

To do when you get a chance to work with your sons uh it’s incredible and you know the first time around working with tone and and Joe was was great um and now Tony and and Preston joining us it’s amazing um and you know who knows maybe

Over time sometime uh Jo joins the team I you know it’s um he’s doing a wonderful job at at at uh at Callaway and is happy there and he should be um if he ever decides he’d like to come over I’m sure we’ll find a desk for him

But uh but to be able to work with your your boys is is amazing and then for me personally aside from that um when you have these jobs like I had whether it was at tailor maid um or at Callaway and you’re in the middle of you know a a a

Pretty um important job in a big company you end up spending your time doing a lot of things that really don’t drive you professionally uh or personally um or creatively or yeah right yeah um so which is fine it’s just you know that that’s what those jobs are you you know

You manage people and the you know the things the challenges and and issues that come with that and the rewards that come with that but what got me most excited is is being able to sit down and create products that when a golfer sees

It for the first time they go like oh my God I have to have this right like holy that’s what we’re after and when you have the jobs that I had over the past 15 or 20 years you don’t get as much time to do that so now the fact

That I get to do it with my family including my wife uh and and press and and tone and tou who is amazing um and you know we have a small team that will grow I’m sure um it’s it’s super rewarding yeah it’s it has been so he’s

He’s sitting over there behind uh our other cameras but so I I met Preston through his previous job uh and my previous job uh when I was working at club champion at Preston through Mitsubishi and I think the uh for the first couple times I talked to Preston I

Remember like not wanting to ask him about you but at the same time like wanting to ask him about you um and then I came out here for a trip trip uh and we did those those videos at cway and I’ve told people the the biggest difference so

First off um I’ll say it this way if you ask golf industry people right who’s the nicest person in the golf industry I have heard one of two answers from every individual it’s you and Chris FAL right I have and that is I I have not gotten a different answer besides those two

People um and most of the time they say both because people don’t like to decide um but it it’s it’s one of those things I’ve never met Chris but I heard he was a nice he’s I haven’t either I’ve talked I have had chats with Chris um I shook

His hand at PGA show last year really quickly um but I am excited actually hopefully this year to get to do some stuff with Chris um but the the idea that you trying to trying to figure out how to word this right um the second time I

Met you you came right up to me shook my hand and you were like hi Jake how are you doing there was no reason you needed to remember who I was there was we had like a half an hour interaction the first time we met we did some stuff on

Camera it was really fun um but like at your level and at your Bravada within the industry like there was no reason for that and I can tell you right now you are one of I think two people at your level in the golf industry that have done that and

It’s but to me that’s that’s who you are like you’re you’re that person and the the connection that you guys now have here inside and going back to you know me trying not to make it awkward talking about somebody who’s sitting 10 ft away from me is Preston has helped me more

Than anybody else at this point and getting closer with with you guys and with even with with Tony and and your wife and and Joe I can see why right I can see how Preston got to the the attitude and the empathy and the the drive that he’s at and how he has

Influenced me with some of that stuff he also has this this weird ability to like understand people somehow and because he’s pointed me twice now on paths that I probably would not have thought about um and I will always give him credit for that but it’s it’s just

It’s one of those things where I can see it right within within within you and within your wife I’ll give her a lot of credit too because now having you know it’s only been like 48 hours but I feel like I know her very well now over 14

Hours um it’s it’s so easy to see so to see everybody come together and do this and you know I’ve seen Tony throw things on Instagram of like the kid like the grandkids are in here riding bikes or whatever and right now we’re at the you know very beginning stages of whatever

This next chapter ends up becoming um and we have the new 2024 line but I think people also need to understand like I watched you build three small batch Putters to get shipped out and we had you know we talked yesterday I was talking to your wife at at the house

About U people that call in and she’s like I I don’t know the answer I’ll let you talk to Shawn and then people are like wait am I am I am I talking to Shawn too and it’s and for you and for like Preston and your wife it’s like

Yeah you’re talking to Sean that’s great like congratulations it’s just Sean they don’t always know me as the nicest person in golf by the way but like but that’s cool I don’t think I don’t think people realize that you’re you’re talking on the phone to just normal customers you’re answering some of the

Emails Absol love doing it um I do love doing it it’s it that part is really cool and I I’m trying to figure out more ways and you know we’re working on a bunch of content together too which I’m really thrilled to be a part of um I

Think that that’s going to be something that as this gets bigger and bigger I can’t wait to see what that becomes and what what else comes out and the new stuff um but yeah the you know I I think this iteration is has been built from the last two I think that obviously

There was a ton of stuff and I know you still have some relationships with like a ton of people that you met through cway and like supply chain stuff stuff like that and there’s still support that exists there I don’t think it was a um I think it’s important to say like nothing

Bad happened at cway no just the opposite yeah it was just the opposite everything that has happened since we left or or you know to to Really facilitate this happening again has come from from from Chip ruer who is a dear friend and Tim Reid who’s a dear friend

Um you know we they’ve been amazing to us uh and continue to be so so uh we a wonderful relationship um with them that’s going to continue hopefully for hopefully forever um and uh you know I I get to um be with those guys actually still quite

A bit and um you know the things that we built over eight years of putting together a world-class supply chain Mark laosy another one amazing guy um so for for us we’re able to U tap into all of these things that we helped build um together when I was there with with tone

And our capabilities are they’re not amazing they’re incredible and it shows up in these products I mean when you see well you’ve seen it yeah oh yeah what we’re going to launch here in a month knowing that we got started in July and we’re going to launch 11 models

Of right-handed Putters and three lefties and they’re they’re magnificent incredible I’ll put them up against anything I I I believe they truly are the most beautiful M Putters in the world I do yeah I it um when when I got wind of this all happening um because Preston kept me

Informed of some things in the the most vague way possible um I I thought for sure right I was like okay so this is going to happen next year we’re going to get a Madison we’re going to get a Vegas and they’re going to throw one more at

Us and and then when I started to talk to you guys about planning for the the content that we’ve been doing and all you know eight of the heads plus different hle selections for some of them plus the left-handed stuff I was like well we went from what I thought

Was going to be three right-handed only models maybe in a couple of next elections to the entire lineup plus two brand new models and a very uh heavily redefined Memphis so really there’s on top of that I think of all the small batches and one of those is a ground up design right

Yeah this the small batch thing is a whole other discussion about what you guys are doing with that and I don’t think people realize that the the small batch stuff is it’s so hard to a do it at the frequency that you guys are doing it at um I think that’s incredible the

Fact that you guys are basically busting one of those out a month if not closer to like 45 days but still I I think that’s incredible amounts of work um in the the design process that has to to go into those is way deeper because once the 2024 lineup is done that’s your

Lineup until you change the lineup or you change technology you find something new but with small batch it’s you’re not just you’re not just taking a head stripping it of its current finish and changing it to something else like that is not what a small batch putter is um

Like we just saw you build a Sea Island this morning which is beautiful putter those Turtles are crazy but to go through small batch so let’s let’s dive into that just a little bit as we get in cuz the the 2024 product we’re going to have a ton of

Videos on there’s going to be a bunch of content from the ton team I’m going to have a bunch of it as well um and then you know the media is going to catch on to that really quickly and when when those are available for people to buy

It’s going to I think it’s going to shoot just extremely quickly because I think people are really happy that you’re still continuing to to do this um but with small batch what what’s the process there like is that like a you woke up in the middle of the night with

With a dream for a butterhead and you start drawing it and making it or like is it a little bit more thoughtful than that it’s both um but the that whole concept is Tony um which we um started executing against about two years ago when we were still at Odyssey and and

That was really the tulon brand in the middle of this you know Juggernaut called Odyssey uh which you know is dependent on lots of energy lots of designs lot and and the team at Odyssey is you know it’s it’s not huge it’s it’s you there’s nice resources there but

It’s not a big big team um so it it required pretty much all of the brain power and Manpower that we had to just to create products for Odyssey which means tulon didn’t get much attention there um right wrong IND different it it um but well so Tony uh wanted to make

Sure that uh we were moving the brand forward somehow and he he’s the one who really came up with this whole idea um for uh for a small batch and it was really based on six words which was always new always cool always rare So

New rare cool um so what does that look like well that model now creates sort of a structure that’s needed to be able to create those products so um you know some of the design work is um you know heavily inspired by designs that we’d already done um from a head shape

Perspective but not so simple um so it’s definitely not a graphic package and a new finish and no it’s it’s far from that yeah so it because they all get redone uh which means it’s all new CAD it’s all new cam it’s all new fixturing it’s new tooling yeah know it’s it’s a

It’s a ton of work it’s freaking expensive to make to do all that for 75 Putters too I think I think people need to understand that we were talking less than usually less than 100 Putters actually I don’t know L I don’t think any of them have triple dbit but like

It’s so expensive to do that y um and you know we’ve been able to put together um the the right team to be able to do that so we’ll start first at the design phase so that’s an idea typically an idea and it could be the in Inspiration

Can come from anywhere um so we’re we just finished Santa Monica when is this going to go when are people going to hear this um this if I can launch a product here or not this will I don’t think we can do I’ll B I’ll no I I’ll forget to Blink

This out um okay so Latrobe um so Latrobe will be the next one right and so Latrobe when you think about it um Latrobe after Arnold Palmer um he was the one who really was instrumental in the design of the 8802 in 1964 which is just this incredible iconic shape that

Almost all great Putters at one point in time have used a putter like that if not that one um so all right if you were going to do that if that’s an important Putter and um Arnold Palmer is you know who he is or remains to be yeah um uh

And was in the game um that would be that’s something that’s there’s a real story there so we like to be able to tell a story either ideally it would be about a place a person and a product and this this um Preston calls it a love letter really

The the the product itself is which I think is totally apropo and um so when you look at the next one being Latrobe and this this tribute to Mr Palmer that design an incredible place um and then you combine that with u the capabilities that we have with a material called 904l

Which is an amazing material and what we want to do to try to take a design like that which was Now 60 years old um and and make it so that it’s not just something you put up you know on the mantle but can go out and play great

Golf with what would that look like now that brings into uh into play Metallurgy and um hardcore engineering and supply chain capabilities and all these kind of things and then you’re going to do 75 of them and the suppliers at first look at you like you got three eyes sticking out

Of your forehead and then but but they’ve all jumped on board with us uh on this journey to create something special for the golfer and we’re able to do it and um it’s super unique uh and to your point to be able to do one you know virtually every month in super small

Quantities and they sell out really fast um it’s it’s very very cool um and it for us it connects us to the Heart and Soul and Spirit and the honor of the game um but it also allows us creative freedom and flexibility and um kind of keeps us um exercising those

Muscles which is great yeah absolutely and I think I mean the the freedom that you guys have with those because it can be anything you want it can be it can be shapes that you’ve never tackled before and maybe we finally get the the two1 flavor of that and I think the other

Thing too that you you and I have talked about with small batch is small batch can also become kind of a like an R&D mini phase for a shape that you might want to add to the stock collection definitely an incubator like if if something just really goes off and you

Get all these requests of like you know hey I know you made 75 but does there happen to be one laying around or whatever and you get more and more of those request or tour feedback I was a big one um I think that’s that’s a huge

Thing for you guys to do micro testing on level but like you also know that the the testing and the feedback that comes out of those releases is arguably the best feedback you can get because of what they spent on the Putter and how loyal they are to those those Putters

And the feedback there our customers are amazing they’ve just been amazing yeah no this it’s I’m I’m so excited about what you guys are are doing now and to make sure that this doesn’t end up being our whole day we can uh we can start to

Wrap up here but um we’ll definitely do another one of these in the future too I think an update would be great honored to be with you on your first one but I think this is yeah it’s going to be very very cool we love what you’re doing too

And uh we’ll do everything we can to support you as best we can I appreciate that I um I’m very I’m I’m super happy to be on this journey I think um I think these these podcasts are going to be cool too like Kevin you know having

People like yourself willing to sit down I think it’s going to really uh impact some people nice as people say yeah you should be number two I uh I’m I’m hoping Chris ends up being on I think he’s going to be if he big times you call me

I I don’t know him but I’ll I’ll help I’ll make I’ll make sure I I just send that to yeah and be like hey here’s here’s your pressure um no Chris Chris is a great guy and he’s already actually uh he’s helped me with the Muno team a

Little bit so he um It’s a Wonderful company too yeah I I imagine he’s going to be uh later this year probably Chris will jump on which but did you see the the white mauno did you see that the other day no yes so Muno is having a

Special release Matt White Crown uh Muno St stz love it looks it actually looks really sick I was I wanted to not like it like there was a bunch of us within the industry have been talking about it because we’re all like all right like who needs this to be brought back and

We’re all pretty much just negative about it because we knew it was coming and then we see the pictures and we see the inhand stuff all of us were like all right this is pretty sick it’s pretty cool yeah that’s a little mugget there

But um so so the the 2024 stuff guys is uh releasing in just a few days as of this podcast going up uh thank you again for sitting down and for for everything here um excited to uh keep working with you guys for sure that can be

Fun hey hey presson can you do me a favor uh in that camera bag over there was this 9 hours long press okay 5 Z or 15 oh okay that’s not that bad uh in that bag there is a cup that I would like like to give to your

Dad oh um yeah I want to take a picture with it’s fine it can be a decoration um I do use these oh my God I’ll use that that awesome I I had these made so here I can I’ll try to show this to that camera um yeah so yours is a little

Special because it’s got first down there a that is so awesome and I do use it as you know I I get to the office early um usually I’m here a little after 5 and uh I so I need something to load up with coffee to to bring here so this

Is like my this is like a new age thermos yeah it’s and it’s actually awesome so it’s a Orca with um they made that golf ball texture um so I’m uh going to be able to give all the podcast guests one of those and your says first

On it but um I’m uh very yeah very very happy about that so I should have had you do it first and I would have thrown your coffee in there on the table but no the master m is pretty sick too no no problem um yeah I uh you’re if you’re

Watching this you’re watching it on YouTube uh and then obviously you’re going to do some social podcast Clips but I have no idea if this is on Spotify or anything yet haven’t really figured that out but uh thanks for watching on YouTube everybody uh make sure you stay

Tuned for the 2024 release from two on and I know people are going to love it great thanks so much all right