Packers Season Review w/ Ben Fennell

On today’s show, Andy is joined by Ben Fennell to discuss the Packers’ decision to hire Jeff Hafley and what he can bring to the Packers’ defense. Plus a look back at the Packers’ 2023 season. Don’t miss it!

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What is up everybody welcome back to an all new episode of the Packa day podcast I’m your host Andy Herman you can follow me on Twitter at Andy Herman NFL I am joined once again by Ben freaking fennel you can find him on Twitter Ben fennel

NFL Ben it has been far too long I don’t know when the last time we chatted was but however long ago it was like I said it was it was far too long I’m so excited to have you back on the show feels like we were just talking about

Potential draft picks for Green Bay a season ago we’ve got so much to discuss first of all welcome back and how the heck have you been I’m doing great it has been a while but myself like 30 other teams have moved on to the draft

Moved on to the off season and it’s time to start looking ahead and it’s an exciting time it’s kind of that clean slate or build your slate uh time of the year and you know there’s optimism building as teams are kind of uh ripping the page clean and uh like myself

Putting 2023 to bed and uh moving forward here so senior Bulls on the TV Super Bowls a week away we’re hit in February here it’s a good time to be alive it very much is and again we have so much to discuss because it is free

Agency draft end of the season end of year reviews there’s all of it we still have of course Super Bowl to be played uh but I want to start with obviously the the latest news and that is that the Packers have a new defensive coordinator

Uh that is Jeff Halley and I just want to get I know you already did a little bit of a dive into some of the tape and the analytics and the the stats from from so your thoughts on the Packers decision to hire jeffley as defensive coordinator listen full disclosure I’m

Playing catchup like everybody else all right I wasn’t sitting on my couch Saturdays while watching Boston College most weekends and I wasn’t studying their prospects for the most part over the last three and four seasons I think they had one player on the defensive side drafted in the last four years and

Of course that’s our own isaia McDuffy who was a day three pick there but did study him a little bit studying their little Edge rusher that didn’t come out and Josh DeBerry was a nice nickel before he transferred over to Texas A&M so I want to fire up the tape and get a

General assessment for the scheme not necessarily the talent because Boston College these middling College Programs I don’t know what type of talent they’re getting I don’t know if they’re you know paying in the portal and the nil money and getting some of these Kickback kids from the bigger schools or what he’s

Working with so I just want to take a general look at the scheme saw some major kind of schematic points that I had tweeted in that thread man coverage cover zero cover one particularly in the red zone and third down and a lot of creative six-man pressure Concepts which

Come with kind of hand inand with that cover zero because you’re sending obviously six rushers but a much more aggressive approach than we had seen with Joe Barry so it’s going to look different it’s going to feel different not necessarily everything he’s bringing is a truth serum or you know the Golden

Goose type of thing everything in defense has pros and cons always remember that if there was a perfect defensive scheme everybody would play at every play but it’s a chess board you got to move your pieces around take away things and also leave yourself vulnerable in other areas so it was fun

Diving into it and it’s a bit of a projection kind of spinning that forward because four years at Boston College one year at Ohio State very different kind of makeups of those rosters so Ohio State relied a little bit more on the talent the fourman front as you should

With Ohio State type of recruits and that level of talent so it was a fun dive in but I’m still kind of learning and playing cat up like I’d imagine most of Green Bay is yeah very much so I like the fact that it seems adaptable to what

Talent he does have like you said different at Ohio State than it was at Boston College understandably so because the talent gap between the two is going to be massive just kind of looking at it barebones we don’t have to you know go too deep into the rabbit hole but uh

What you did see from the tape in Boston College how do you feel like that sort of system and style melds itself with what Green Bay has on the roster and it’s a little bit difficult of course because because we don’t know what the safety room is going to look like you’ve

Got Eric Stokes coming back from injury you think you have jier and Carrington at least keesan Nixon’s a free agent Kingsley and nbar has got a torn ACL so it’s we don’t exactly know what the makeup of this team is going to look like defensively but knowing what we do

Know and knowing what you did see on tape what are some things that maybe entice you give you concern I’ll let you go in any direction that you want to go with it all right first thing Boston College played an outrageous amount of man coverage over the last two years

Second in the FBS in man coverage coverage that’s 133 teams out there so they’re playing a ton of man coverage what’s going on in the NFL right now everybody’s getting away from man coverage they’re playing a little bit more shell defense we’re hearing this two high scheme quarter

Scheme fangio you know keeping it in front of you preventing explosives there only so many teams out there playing this high volume pressure man that’s wink marale who just left the Giants that’s Brian Flores in Minnesota and there’s some guys like you know Steve Spagnola in Kansas City and Jim Schwarz

That have the guys to do it they also have guys like miles Garrett and Chris Jones up front and a stable of cover Corners it’s also dangerous to play Man coverage in today’s NFL I think Nick Sabin four or five years ago kind of threw his arms up in there and said I

Think man coverage is broken I don’t really know what to do in man coverage we’re getting rubbed all over the place the RPO game is just running away from our Corners with the Run threat so all this high volume man coverage it has some cons too and it is risky so while

The Packers have been preventing explosives and keeping it in front of you and playing a little safer a little bit looser it had the results that reflected that there weren’t as many explosives you weren’t beat over the top as much so this pressure man scheme it could come with more High variant

Defensive results if you get those quarterbacks that know where to go against cover zero they’re typically having opportunities to beat man coverage for a big play so do the Packers have the Personnel to play that way that remains to be seen as you had said I think you know jaer is a corner

That should be able to survive in any scheme we’re still kind of waiting for what type of player Eric Stokes will be but it’s also an exciting time and that you could start developing that Personnel to fit whatever scheme you want to play so as much as he has been

Adaptable to his Personnel you want to get the right jimmies and Joe’s to fit those X’s and O’s too so it’s an exciting time out there but just always remembering there’s no perfect defensive scheme it’s what you want to live and die by so I think Packers fans and

Community judging the reactions of my thread and over the last you know several seasons they’re ready for a little bit more High variant defense a little bit more aggressive attacking style which could come with some burns on the back end but I think that’s the way the Packers fans and the defensive

Approach kind of wants to play it moving forward I will raise my hand Ben I am ready to get beat over the top sign me up for a couple of deep balls over the top I’m I’m ready for it I’m EXC Andy all that stuff cyclical you know during

The Capers years of getting beat over the top and the coverage confusions all you want was just play safe play deep play loose play vanilla now we got a little too vanilla now it’s like all right let’s dial this thing up where’s buddy Ryan cover zero all out Blitz

Let’s do it so these kind of tones are very cyclical as defenses should be because there’s no Perfect Defense so it’s always going to kind of EB and flow based on how you’re getting beat in the feel of it and that’s why I think the adaptability is so important I like the

Fact that he comes from different schemes and systems I like the fact that we saw a little bit something different at Ohio State than we saw at Boston College it feels like he has a pulse on what his team can be good at and he

Adapts it to what they need to be and goody even said in his press conference on Thursday basically that because he was starting to get asked about like what type of scheme and he’s like well first of all it’s a 425 defense for everyone in the NFL anyway um but he’s

Like you know secondly he’s like you know what he’s excited about is that he’s going to be able to come into the building and evaluate the Personnel on the team and then build his system off of that which is a million percent what you want to hear so I’m excited to see

How he puts it together just because he played a ton of single high man in in you know college doesn’t necessarily mean that that’s going to be able to carry over to the NFL as you mentioned they can just play Man beaters all day if you play too much man so there’s GNA

Have to be that chessboard mentality exactly like you said and I do think he has a little bit of that in his bag and we’re just gonna have to kind of see how it plays out before we kind of move on from defensive coordinator I wanted to

Also just sort of combine this with the fact that Joe Barry was let go as defensive coordinator uh did you agree with that did you feel like it was time to move on um and now that we know who the new defensive coordinator is do you

Feel like this is a positive move for the Packers yeah I was probably okay with moving on this time last year so I’m okay with it despite the glimpse of success down the stretch of the Season there I just think we’re ready for a new voice of leadership at the top in that

Defensive room considering the talent and the capital used to acquire some of that talent I think we just need to point to the system the scheme The Voice the coaching to maybe get the most out of those players because there was no question there was talent and aggressive

Capital to acquire Talent on that defensive side and you just weren’t getting the results so I thought the very first thing you should do let’s change the coach so I think that was maybe a calendar year too late but we got here and we’re moving forward yeah

I’m right there with you we definitely talked about it uh last point in the offseason of potentially moving on it didn’t happen I was a little bit more willing to accept that based on the fact that this past year felt like an evaluation year for one I think they got

The evaluation they needed they moved on like you said maybe a year too late but they get the guy that they want now defensive coordinator aside um you know obviously we’re gonna have to wait and see what Jeff Halley brings to the table but from your point of view what would

You like to see this Packers defense mold into how would you like to see them play what maybe positions do they need to Target in free agency or the draft like where would you like to see this defense go in 2024 well like we had said

I just want to see some more calculated dictating schemes a little bit more aggressive not to say I need them to be Brian Flores or wink you just don’t want to be 31st in cover zero and 30th in man coverage on third down there’s a balance

There so that could also come with some lapses too but being a little bit more calculated in how you dial up some aggressive schemes here and there and pick your battles the other thing tackling tackling tackling Andy this team needs to get better at tackling not only the pursuit the effort the angles

The technique the number of chicken wing tack on the back end of this defense are insane now for every Defender that lowers his hat and tries to you know knock out a ball carrier with his crown I want to find a guy for throwing the

Chicken wing and it just kills me in you know in one game in the Niner game you could find Jer giving the chicken wing Darnell Savage giving a chicken wing in the hole Jonathan Owens giving a chicken wing yes does Gyer Alexander’s chicken wing knock out Debo Samuel yes but it

Was a chicken wing nonetheless that’s the HaHa Clinton Dicks I want to see better technique effort angle across the board tackling this Packers team is 30th in force fumbles over the last three years combined this team is just not rallying to the ball and not attacking the ball carry with proper technique and

Aggressiveness and I think that’s the number one thing I think Jeff Halley is going to come in and try to do is make this team a better tackling team first and foremost and I am welcoming it amen I could I could not agree more and we

Saw how it rears its ugly heads at the wrong time you’ve got Christian mcaffrey in the hole one-on-one with Darnell Savage and it results in a 39 yard touchdown instead of what should have been a seven or eight yard gain and I get Christian mcaffrey does that to a

Lot of people but a little bit of better technique work can go a long way in those specific type of scenarios I’m ready for a totally new safety group Ben I don’t know about you um I’ve kind of I’ve kind of uh just let’s just put it

This I’m ready to move on from the Darnell savages the Jonathan Owens the Rudy Fords if you want to bring one of those guys back as like a veteran back of the end safety that can fill in in a pinch and play some special teams like

An Owens or Rudy Ford be my guest that’s fine but I I definitely feel like it’s time to go in a different direction in that safety room get some younger guys get some more Talent it’s a really fun free agency class at safety it just feels like they need to Makeover at that

Position yeah I’m with you it’s almost impressive that they survived you know 20 games with that safety group I mean you go to your any local bar and find an avid fantasy football player or Gambler ask him to name a packer safety that played One Snap this season I think

They’d be tough to do it and there’s a couple position groups like that across the league and maybe even on the Packers I think just as impressed with them surviving with that offensive line group with Jordan love behind them as I am at that secondary so very very overachieving for my expectations of

That Packers team let’s take a look at the the 2023 Packers as a whole because I do want to pick your brain on that you know first of all I’m curious as to kind of what your expectations were going into the season and then how the Packers

Either failed to meet met or overe exceeded your expectations in this past season getting to the divisional game ultimately losing to the 49ers and uh you know just kind of final results versus what you thought they were going to be going in so I was born in 1987 so

Let’s say I’ve been a Packers fan for 30 years this is the first year I think I went in without expectations it was a really weird feeling of going into a season and having no expectation just left you kind of aimless and swirling the drain uh through most of the season

So yes I was impressed with their final product I was impressed they you know made it into the playoffs with a playoff win going toe-to-toe with the 49ers all through and through Jordan loves performance I was impressed I was impressed with the coaching but this team was really exciting on a week to

Week because they often played to their opponent you they battled and beat teams like the Chiefs the Lions the Cowboys in the playoffs they also got their pants pulled down against the Raiders and the Broncos and they let Carolina score 30 on them and he lost to the Giants and

You know so it was a weird team to kind of evaluate on a week to week they never really showed you who they were uh you know in a kind of a full disclosure transparency sense because they kept playing to who they had in front of them which was exciting at times and

Maddening at times but to watch a season with no expectations Andy it was a lot of fun yeah and you know I think that the pressure on Sundays was more of a let’s see what they give us type of thing as opposed to saying you gotta win

This game and I think you sat there in week 17 18 wild card and start to look around and say wait a minute does this team have something here right you know if you just get hot at the right time like they did late uh November kind of a

Lapse there early December but then hot again late December you know that’s the that’s the formula that’s the recipe and for a team that I went in with no expectations it was fun to watch um so I think sitting here with the future ahead of this team coming off of that season

I’m really excited for the future of the Packers yeah I’m right there with you and I I owe you a ton of credit because one of the things that we talked about and you specifically said when we talked about right before the season started was what you’re going to see from this

Packer team is a lot of high highs and some very low lows you’re going to see the peaks in The Valleys you’re going to see the wide variance you’re going to see a young team with a lot of talent go up against some good teams and beat them

You’re gonna see them go against some bad teams and lose to them um I adopted that very same mentality after talking to you and watching them more and more and that’s exactly what they got this past season was a team that saw the high some very high highs some very low lows

Everything in between and but you’re hopeful that they can take those High highs and maybe bring those low lows up and make it a little bit less of that dip and and just kind of continue to improve moving forward you know that’s what it seemed like it started to do you

Know towards November December you just started to kind of Baseline yourself a little bit so that RoR scale wasn’t going up and down was just kind of riding a little bit more steady which I think is a trajectory you get with all these young players out there and these

Young players are lottery tickets some are going to fall in their face make it through after a couple games maybe a year or two some start out hot some never get it so I think each one is its own trajectory its own learning curve you have guys coming from FCS and Tucker

Craft you have guys coming from the group of five here and there ask to contribute and play meaningful snaps in the NFL like that all while learning an NFL Playbook and trying to you know learn with a Young quarterback was really impressive and you know they were

Kind of drowning I think that first month or two but to see the young guys kind of play faster you can see the mental aspect really slow down for them and then they were able to play faster and produce and be productive and exciting young players and it was fun to

Watch that maturation if you’re able to get through that first two months and you you weren’t you know completely drunk by that point in a weird way I do feel like kind of the boak ti Aaron Jones and Christian Watson injuries earlier in the season almost forced them

To get better faster and it I think it almost helped guys like musk grave and craft and read and Wicks and um Rasheed Walker and those guys just get more playing time and just have to step up and then all of a sudden at the end of

The year I know they didn’t get Bak tiari back but all of a sudden Rasheed Walker was playing pretty darn well you get you know Watson back you get Jones back and it’s all of a sudden like oh my goodness they have like weapons everywhere and it was fun to watch I do

Want to pick your brain on that draft class in just a moment but I’d be remiss not to ask you about Jordan love I know you watched a lot of film on him through the course of the Season what was your overall evaluation of love this past

Year I thought he played incredible I you know it was very much a week to week down to down drive to drive figure it out sometimes you look good within structure sometimes it was a backyard type of play and he had to figure it out and you develop that trust that Rapport

The experience with his young Supporting Cast that was clearly clunky you know for the first month or two not only just executing you to make sure guys are in the right spot getting lined up the right way getting the checks knowing their landmarks knowing the conversions

Oh yeah and then we actually have to execute in complete the pass and catch the ball so before any of the physical happens the mental was just setting this team back so much in the first few months and I think that tight end room really speaks to it you know Tucker

Craft Luke Musgrave Tucker cra’s a good player he didn’t know what he was doing the first month he didn’t know his assignments half the time once he got his assignment he can execute it same thing with Musgrave not knowing the right routes the right depths the right checks these guys are talented young

Players you got to know what to do and I think love was starting to grow build that trust with these players through the season as raw as it was right in front of our eyes you can watch that growth and that maturation and that went lock step with Jordan love success so I

Was really impressed um you know you got to see a lot of exciting young players show up for Jordan love and Jaden Reed and davien Wicks and Romeo dubs and to see the game slow down for these young players and show what they can do from Saturdays to Sundays it’s exciting each

Of these young players are lottery tickets they have some value not all of them get these opportunities in the NFL so it’s really exciting to see that blank slate and some of these guys actually fill it in with some exciting highlevel play oh yeah that offensive

Line we just survived how many games at Rasheed Walker at left tackle it’s an amazing job by Jordan love to navigate not only the outside narratives but the actual inside the locker room es and flows of the young Talent Jordan love very very impressive season now his

Personal ity that stoic kind of calmness it’s interesting to evaluate it’s very much that Jil and hurts he’s not going to go too high he’s really not going to go too low that’s not for everybody some want a little more rahah some want a little more emotion when things are

Going wrong I like that even ke type of guy that’s never going to get too high or too low we can evaluate that for another day but Jordan love 2023 he showed everybody exactly what he need to and I think you’re ready to throw him

The keys for the future I with you on literally everything that you just said uh I think it was so impressive how he just navigated the rigors of a full NFL season teams threw different things at him and he had responses to it as the season went on he saw all different

Types of defenses I was expecting at some point like a defense to give him trouble and then every other coordinator was just going to copy paste and just keep and that just that never really happened and credit to Matt laflor for that as well there was this idea going

Into the season that man this is going to be awesome you’re gonna have all of these really young wide receivers ins tight ends developing on the same path as Jordan love and then you get to that early part of the Season you’re like oh maybe maybe this is not the right and

Then all of a sudden they all get going in the same direction you mentioned Tucker craft I thought he made as big of an improvement from day one until end of season as anyone on the entire roster um it was just really fun to watch them play cohesive football and more and more

More so as the season went along it was a hell of a journey and I’m with you from expect no expectation to divisional round and the growth that this team showed I don’t know how you can’t be excited about this moving forward and my one last note before we put Jordan love

To bed here I love watching JT soul breakdowns the QB School my one major takeaway from all his Jordan love breakdowns which I would implore you guys to go watch those on a rainy day if you haven’t already Jordan love does not know how to help himself yet which you

Develop with time and experience in reps so a lot of times you watch JT Sullivan break down a play and it’s an exciting explosive play and the breakdown or the assessment will be it didn’t have to be this hard yep so I think that should really excite Packers fans that he was

This successful this productive making this many plays and he really didn’t how to help himself yet like a veteran quarterback should or would and that’s going to come with time and the game’s going to slow down for Jordan as well and he’s going to start to develop those

Little tips and those little tricks on how to help yourself execute plays and that should really excite the future this team because he made some plays that didn’t have to be so hard and I thought JT did a really a good job of explaining it hey yes this was completed

But it didn’t have to be like this it could have been like that and I think he’s going to start to refine his game make things a little bit easier on himself and find ways to help himself make big plays first of all jto solvin is incredible at his breakdowns and his

Ability to be so smart but so humble and so being able to explain everything on its simplest terms so that everyone can understand he just does phenomenal phenomenal work and a great Packers perspective kind of into things through Sim in Green Bay he’s a great voice it

Really really is um I for those of you who are listening on the audio Channel as Ben is explaining that I am grinning ear to ear because I came away with so much of the same stuff during the course of the Season where it’s like he’s just scratching the surface of what he’s

Capable of and credit to gy and Matt laflor who said all along he just needs reps he needs to play he needs this opportunity and what struck me so much was his ability from the beginning of the year to even start taking some of the things that didn’t work and like

Start erasing that from it you know from his game and then like just start improving it was almost like he was learning legitimately like learning in real time and like like storing things in the data Bank of like oh yeah I can do this oh I can’t do this anymore and

He very rarely made some of the mistakes um twice and I’m just so so freaking thrilled that I think he’s going to be able to even take it to another level moving forward let’s go back uh and talk a little bit about that 2023 draft I

Will give you another Kudos I know Jaden Reed was one of your guys going into weekend that has clearly been a very big hit for Green Bay um what are your other takeaways obviously a very impressive draft class overall we talked Musgrave we talked uh you know Tucker craft

You’ve got davien Wicks Carrington Valentine plays a ton Carl Brooks shows up kobby wooden is a rotational dude we haven’t even talked about their first round pick LVN a little up and down but your thoughts on this overall 2023 draft class yeah it was an exciting Hall and

It was great to see these guys get taken out of package and get opportunities to see if those numbers hit on the lottery ticket and I just don’t think players get these opportunities and I think when we’re studying these draft prospects and kind of projecting and comparing careers

And traits luck and opportunity is such a factor in these guys career and you just think of all players before that had opportunities based on injuries in front of them and things happening you know in their lives in the course of locker rooms not everybody gets these

Chances so it’s great to see guys like Davi and Wicks get an opportunity and show up which he had these traits at Virginia you could beat press coverage you can separate and catch the ball those are three pretty good traits when you’re studying wide receiver prospects this class beat press coverage separate

Catch the ball I don’t need you to run 43 I don’t need you to jump 40 inches I don’t need you to be 6’4 beat press separate catch the ball that’s what Jaden Reed does really well that’s what Wix does really well and it’s exciting to see guys like Carl Brooks get chances

Too or Carrington Valentine you know a guy from Kentucky that easily looks like a start starting Corner in the NFL despite having a couple first round corners in the locker room in the defensive back room with him so I think I just love seeing the makeup these guys

Have opportunities and show up when they can uh and perform and just remember these opportunities don’t come by every year or every week or you know for everybody so it’s fun to see we already touched on the tight ends and the mental stuff kind of holding them back early

Playing faster more confident down the stretch and Lucas vaness remember Packers fans this was a future pick this is a young kid rather inexperienced no starts at Iowa and you didn’t need him to be a 50 QB pressure guy you know behind Preston Smith who I thought

Played really well this year and ran Gary and some really nice presences like anabar and you know outside of uh you know some of the defensive tackles as well stepping up like Clark and Devonte Wyatt so I think Van Ness his expectations weren’t over the moon so it

Was just get your feet wet and I think thought it was a kind of a out-of the- package season of just get some 10 15 20 snaps a game and get a feel for the NFL speed and I thought he started to get a little bit more comfortable down the

Stretch but as the down the stretch went you got to see people like Trent Williams and Tyron Smith and it’s a it’s a learn on the job craft as well rushing the passer he’ll be better for it I think you will be and all those guys got

A tremendous opportunity and a ton of snaps and they’re going to be better for it moving forward I’m going to give you just the floor any direction that you want to go with this anything as you watch the Packers this year a player that stood out a good way a player that

Stood out in a bad way somebody that maybe didn’t progress the way that you were hoping somebody that took a major step that maybe people aren’t talking about floor is yours whatever Direction you want to go with that all right three quick ones here I’m getting a little bit

Uh repetitive here with my Zack Tom praise I just mention it’s impressive what Jordan love did behind this offensive line all you needed was one you needed one offensive lineman you can trust and I think that’s Zack Tom not Elton Jenkins Zack Tom watch Zack Tom

Throughout the season a lot of the long developing plays often blocking the backside end one-on-one he was the guy you can trust if you don’t have one you can trust I don’t think you can survive but Zack Tom continually impressing me every week every snap he is an absolute

Stud getting a little sick of talking about him so we’re gonna move on I thought TJ Slayton had a great season for what they asked him to do I thought he was a really impressive uh dominating nose tackle with a good quick get off was very disruptive down the stretch and

Kind of let’s guys like Devonte Wy and Kenny Clark do what they do and keep them off of the a gaps let them be a little bit more athletic uh I thought TJ slean really played well quietly he’s a 340 pound D tackle he’s not making a lot

Of Splash plays but when you put on the film he’s wrecking guys in there I really like watching him play and thirdly big credit to kesan Nixon who I know they gave that little contract to in the off season was kind of a 670b in the room really good returner that was

Kind of their Splash signing in that weird off season not knowing if you had money with Rogers and Bach tiari I was a little bit lukewarm on it he played great this season particularly down the stretch I thought December into the playoffs he played outstanding and I

Just love the nickel makeup across the NFL whether you have kesan Nixon’s of the world or teron Johnson’s out of Weber State or you know Arthur Mallette was just playing for the Ravens I think some of the Nickels Kenny Moore the Colts some of the Nickels the NFL have

Some crazy paths and stories get to those spots I think kesan Nixon is absolutely an example certainly from a big School in South Carolina and had played in the SEC a little bit but he’s a really good player I was a little bit soured on him coming into this season he

Really impressed me so kesan Nixon at that nickel spot there I think that’s his moving forward I’m glad you brought up Kean Nixon and even as you’re saying this I’m kind of thinking back I at the end of the season especially you mentioned December and January I thought

He easily played his best football at the end of this year and really like almost settled into the position a little bit more and I I maybe wasn’t as high in a middle of the Season early in the season but I absolutely agree with you towards the end of the season that

He really sort of settled into it and I thought he played much much better um and I also have to sort of remind myself of how difficult a position that is to play in the slot and like you just have a variety of different wide receivers

That can beat you in a variety of different ways if you’re an undersized guy they can put a big physical guy in the slot if they’re if you’re a bigger guy they can put a shiftier guy in the slot they have two-way go and so many different like that is a really really

Difficult job and to your point I think Kean deserves more credit probably than even I’ve given him especially the way he played at the end of the season yeah it’s tough business in there not to mention all the coverage assignments you’re pretty much in run support too A

Lot of the times and and if you think you’re GNA go out there is 185 190 pound nickel out there God forbid you’re playing sub against 12 Personnel we’re running right at your ass I know what I’m doing as an offensive coordinator so that’s why these nickels turned into

What we call Big Nickel where you’re playing three safe s instead of three corners because that nickel started to be a liability but remember through the mid 2000s we had to cover West Walkers out there we had to cover Brandon stokeley and the Shifty slot guys those took Shifty Corners what’s the

Maturation of all that we’re going to run at that little corner or the Run of that nickel now he needs to get a little bit bigger now we get more dynamic in the slot and it’s a cycle that keeps moving and Es and flows so as offenses

Want to get smaller defenses get smaller offenses get bigger again defenses have to match and I think that’s kind of where we are heading into 2024 Kean Nixon an unrestricted free agent that’ll be a very interesting decision for oh he is unrestricted wow okay yeah so he’s unrestricted free

Agent um really kind of the only one um you’ve got John runan Jr you’ve got Yosh nyman um not a ton there’s not a there’s not a ton on that list that you’re obviously Savage Rudy Ford Jonathan Owens but there’s not a ton that you’re like super concerned about but Nixon one

Of the bigger ones certainly on that list is a CI returner special teams guy nickel Corner did a little bit of everything even played a snap at wide receiver so that’ll be a very interesting decision as to what they do with him all uh last Packers question

And we kind of discussed a little bit of this already so we can punt on it if you want but any specific positions that you’d like to see Green Bay really attack whether it be via the draft via free agency or just any moves that you’d like to see them specifically make well

I think we touched on the secondary I think we need to make remake the secondary and the particularly the safety room I think we need to kind of get some new blood into that linebacker room as well but in particular got to figure out the offensive line left tackle Center Right

Guard whether that’s Rasheed Walker Josh Myers Shawn Ryan coming back or whether it’s three completely new guys just need a little bit more stability there moving forward and your projection moving forward I think they had a kind of a stable at Right Guard there really like what Rasheed Walker did like what Josh

Meers did but just moving forward I think those are some spots to address and I know we had mentioned all these young players with lottery tickets Andy add something where you know what you’re going to get and that’s just some veteran help and I’d love to see a veteran safety particularly somebody

That’s a really good mind on the back end that’s going to hold the young players accountable with good technique good practice habits good study habits we don’t need a lottery ticket everywhere so something where you kind of know what you’re getting and that could come with some veteran spending so

I hope the Packers maybe spend just a little bit on a veteran presence to kind of balance out some of this youth let me give you some safety names I’m interested just your thoughts obviously you have Antoine Winfield Jr who’s probably just going to get a massive

Contract I don’t expect that to be in Green Bay uh you’ve got Xavier mckenny who’s a free agent Cameron curl from Washington fre before you go further Andy a reminder to fans people aren’t paying safeties anymore Y and I know people said oh Jessie Bates contract Atlanta was the only team giving him

That much money look what Seattle did with Jamal Williams or excuse me Jamal Adams and quandre Diggs they paid them out the butt and did not get the results Derwin James paid a lot did not get the results I think Minka right there is only the one that’s kind of yielding the

Results but people are a little bit Co on paying safeties right now so you may be able to get one of these bigger names for more of a bargain price than people think that’s a really good point uh Anto Winfield uh Xavier McKenna Cameron curl Gino Stone uh Julian

Blackman um Jeremy chin would be like your flyer guy who didn’t play really well but obviously was like a huge athletic tester a couple years ago or Buddha Baker locked up in Arizona I think Buddha Baker might be one as well these were I focus more on guys who are

Like 25 26 27 years old that kind of what goo goino stone is a sneaky good player he’s kind of that seventh eighth guy in the Baltimore defensive back room but obviously you get thrusted in the lineup he’s a really good player at Iowa smart tough kid seemingly anytime he got

On the field for the Ravens in that uh dinard Wilson secondary was making big plays and certainly it’s nice to have Kyle Hamilton and ran Smith and some guys next to you out there but he could be be a sneaky one to to get a splash signing somewhere and get a starting

Opportunity green and gold and those Iowa guys seemingly have a good relationship seven picks this past season he was a stud he’s definitely somebody that’s been on my list as well all right lightning round quick thoughts on 49ers Chiefs listen elite units Elite schemes I don’t care who wins I don’t

Care what happens just sit back and enjoy anytime you get Chris Jones Fred Warner and you know shark Ward lerus Sneed and Trent Williams out there mcaffrey momes there’s so much talent you just have to sit back and and watch and enjoy and these are really impressive offensive line units too so

Whether you get guys like Trey Smith at Right Guard and Creed Humphrey uh for the Chiefs or like we had mentioned Trent Williams even some guys like Aaron banks that plays at guard or Jake brindle at Center don’t get enough credit on that San Francisco uh o line

Up there but just like last year the Eagles Chiefs who’s gon to make that big play on defense and it might not be created by them remember that Jaylen Herz sack fumble return for a touchdown in the blink of an eye and suddenly lost by seven points who’s going to make that

One kind of dummy you know boneheaded move uh on the offensive side and give some easy points to the defense out there but Chiefs Niners I wasn’t ready for a rematch yet I didn’t want a Niners Raven Super Bowl I didn’t want chiefs uh Niners I went into this playoff saying I

Would love for Lamar Jackson or Josh Allen to win a Super Bowl I kind of thought they had that Merit and they had that ability I just wanted to see some new blood with Lombardi trophy if it wasn’t our Green Bay Packers yep so sitting here with the Chiefs Niners a

Super Bowl 54 rematch just sit back and enjoy Shanahan Andy Reed two good teams yeah I’m with you I I don’t think it’s the matchup that a lot of people want wanted but I think it’s going to be a great game and to your point so much

Freaking Talent on the field and you just get some really fun matchups I it’ll still be great football and I love great football so I’m gonna enjoy the hell out of it and last one we will obviously have you on during draft time probably multiple times to talk about

Some prospects but I’ll just give you the floor for a couple people who are currently peing your interest in NFL draft circles well I’m loving a few of these guys on my screen right now at the Senior Bowl Christian Hayes Christian Haynes at a Yukon actually Yukon

Prospect you don’t get him every year he’s a really good Zone blocking guard really quick out of his stance he’s looked great some of these centers making names for themselves 330 pound Jackson Powers Johnson out of Oregon massive Center more of like a Creed Humphrey type but Bo limmer and Zack

Frasier out of West Virginia really centers as well too if the Packers want to go interior o line some really good options couple tackles out there too that are probably going to slide into guard like a Graham Barton at a duke or um this tal fuaga Oregon State kid I

Think would make a great guard moving forward so I know if Packers fans out there maybe looking for a Right Guard of the future look at some of the tackle prospects too some good ones that could slide in as the Packers have been known to do few edges as well Penn State

Another just dripping athleticism explosive Edge rusher and a DC Isaac seemingly creating pressure on every rep out there in the team period and some tank tank tank linebackers no more of these 220 sub linebackers oh you’re a big safety great go play will no no no

No no you’re gonna be 230 pounds 63 and be ready to take on a running back with your face that’s Trayvon Wallace out of Kentucky who’s 240 and can run side to sideline the Lou kid uh from Notre Dame reminds me of Frankie louu you just want

To watch him hit something out there Eder and Cooper at a Texas A&M is 63 245 an absolute missile a lot of these guys look like that Quay Walker long big explosive tough there’s a whole stable of them in this class so I’m not one of these guys that wants to get smaller

More athletic at linebacker oh can you cover no no no we got to be big tough enforcers in the middle there and I think this class has a stable of them to choose from yeah almost like the Baltimore Ravens had a couple of those that helped their defense this past

Season in San Francisco obviously Warner and green law that you need those inside linebackers in the modern NFL if you want a great defense Green Bay could use another one next to Quay Frankie louu by the way a sneaky potential free agent Target as well who could again hit you

In the face Blitz up the middle that’d be a fun potential signing for Green Bay one thing I wanted to mentioned that you mentioned before with the offensive line and you kind of brought it up again with some of the prospects on the interior we

Are in Total Lock step I think the more depth and um competition that Green Bay can get on that offensive line the better they are going to be you want competition for Rasheed you want it for Shawn Ryan you want it for Josh Meyers I think that’s going to push everyone we

Saw competition push people this past season and if you protect Jordan with all the weapons that he has we saw what this offense is capable of just keep breeding those competitions on the offensive line and keep getting better and better and better at that spot I actually just saw his dad down the

Hallway but I was wondering was John renan Jr hurt down the stretch or was he just splitting time with Shawn Ryan splitting time they uh they wanted to I think get Shawn Ryan some experience they saw obviously that running’s going to be a free agent and maybe writing was

On the wall uh running struggled earlier in the season then played really well towards the end um and then you know they did the same thing with Yash and Rasheed at left tackle and then Rasheed just won it um at Right Guard it was a little bit more of an even split I

Thought towards the end ran was just better and was surprised by the time they got to the playoffs that they didn’t just make it Ran’s job but um I think they again probably knew that you know Ryan might need to be the guy next year and wanted to get him as many reps

As possible yeah and definitely different skill sets as ran probably a little bit better mover Sean Ryan obviously squeezing into those pads in that face mask more of a people moving mauling type so for guy that’s probably better moving forward running in a little bit better going backwards so

We’ll see if we can split the difference and find the the best of both yeah you nailed it and it’ll be interesting to see if they want to do some of that competition on the offensive line moving forward and some of those platoon moving forward or if that was just a one-year

Thing that will be something to keep an eye on as well Ben unbelievable stuff as always always love chatting with you uh tell all the people where we can find uh you on social media and what you’re going to be doing during uh the offseason and draft season well you can

Always catch me at Ben fennel NFL on the old tweeter on X uh talking about a lot of draft prospects probably getting into some Oscar movies and conversations soon as well not quite golf time yet and gardening that’ll be in a few months but uh right now working on some senior bull

Stuff and then quickly transition into our coverage of the combine which I’ll be out there at Daniel Jeremiah Rich Eisen Charles Davis all of our NFL network coverage and then quickly in draft season and I will be hitting the links the day after the draft uh in in

Detroit in uh early May so that’s kind of my schedule here Senior Bowl combine draft we are full force in the prospects and studying the draft which this past season I kind of took a backseat for the draft as I did Thursday night football

And a CBS game on Sunday so I was double dipping NFL so I was a little bit removed from the draft so it’s really exciting to dive in and kind of go in with a clean slate and start developing opinions on these guys and got to get

The got to get ahead of the curve quick because these these draft narratives really start to heat up around this time so uh be sure to check out my Twitter where I have a lot of comparisons and talk prospects and all sorts of other nonsense out there but thanks for having

Me on Andy I always appreciate chatting with you yeah right back at you appreciate you as well make sure to go give him a follow at Ben fennel NFL also Ben just make sure right after that draft right between those tea times you leave a little bit of time for the pack

A day podcast to break down all the players from the Packers draft which we love having you on every single season that is going to do it for us again at Ben fennel NFL you can find me at Andy Herman NFL you can follow the podcast at

Paday podcast but until next time and as always go Paco