TSS VAULT: Jordan Spieth on the 2016 Masters + technology in golf

Welcome back to The Smylie Show Vault! We launched the pod in May 2023 but didn’t launch our YouTube page until several months later, so we’re going back to upload some of our favorite interviews from our first few months.

We continue with our sixth episode, Jordan Spieth, on June 1, 2023. Jordan and Smylie relived the roller coaster ride that was their shared experience in the final group of the 2016 Masters, and chart their evolution on the mental side of the game as they both dealt with injuries and swing changes.

Listen to the original episode here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/on-the-tee-with-jordan-spieth/id1686899797?i=1000615253581

00:25 beginning of Jordan’s professional career
06:03 Jordan’s 2013 season
09:37 how playing the Ryder and Presidents Cup early on impacted his career
19:53 playing in the final group of the 2016 Masters with Smylie
28:57 winning the 2017 Open Championship
31:04 losing his old “feels” in 2018-19
46:12 playing creative golf
50:53 separating golf from home life
55:57 is Jordan aware of the impact he has on viewers

#golf #golfing #golflife #golfswing #jordanspieth #masters #augustanational #pgatour

All right Jordan spe joining the Smiley Show Jordan known you a long time good friend of mine and uh I appreciate you having me on you’re joining us live um in Memorial from the RV looking great and we just happen to be wearing matching hats of course uh repp and Driftwood

Driftwood shout out shout out Driftwood I mean goodness gracious what are the odds of that but man so I want to go start back to when your professional career kind of got going let’s go back all the way from November 2012 to September 2013 I couldn’t believe it

When I read it again it seems like so long ago but I want to I just want to walk you through it November 2012 you miss final stage of Q School by three shots I remember you said you were struggling with the putter that week hit

It great and in January 2013 you leave Texas you turn pro and then you go play the farmers where you miss the cup so we’re off to an interesting start and go play well in Puerto Rico and Tampa where you eventually earn special member

Uh status on the PGA tour and then go on to win the John Deere in July where you earn your full status as a PGA Tour member and as a winner and in September of 2013 you finished second at the Tour Championship seventh in the FedEx Cup

And 10th on the money list and 22nd in the world named PJ tour Rookie of the Year and then selected to the president C I mean dude what in the world like what a medior like it’s just the craziest rise but also I mean you had

All the downs and all the ups all in I mean a span of nine months what uh what did you remember most about that year well I just remember that year being in stages you know it was I’d left school and had starts and I missed Q

School and then missed the cut in my first start and I just remember it being uh oh no uh you know hopefully this goes well but it’s not off to a great start to five six weeks later you know I’ve got special temporary status on the PGA

Tour and uh just a just a wild bet on yourself six week you know played well at the right time and all of a sudden now I’ve got a whole bunch of freedom for the rest of the year and um just a place to play I mean that’s that’s the

Number one thing for guys that are that are trying to make it out they just want a place to play and that was me then and when I found that I had that place to play the level of my game just stepped up a little bit more and more and um it

Ended up yielding a win by the end of that year but um just that whole year in itself was was just a blast um because I could pick a schedule then and everything’s new everything’s new and I’m traveling on my own and you’re making money and paying bills yourself

And you’re just you feel like such an adult but you can’t sck you can’t you can’t buy a beer at the bar yet though either no but six months earlier you know I was on a I was on scholarship checks at Texas and I was you know net

Net I was trying I was going on like $350 a month you know and all of a sudden I’m like okay well I don’t think I have to keep track of my checking account anymore it’s just kind of like a it was just it was cool because I was I

Was I just hoped to one day play the PJ tour and I just didn’t necessarily I believed it would happen you know sooner rather than later but maybe not in just a a twoe period in a way you know did that Q school being able to qualify

Straight to the PJ tour is that one of the reasons why you gave it a shot or and eventually you just decided I’m I’m ready to be a pro yeah so I actually was planning on turning professional after the US amiter that summer and I got knocked out by

Thomas Peters in the first round and I wasn’t going back to school in three days before school started I wasn’t going to have anywhere to play in the fall professionally I was going to have to Monday qualify for the fall series events but I knew if I was at Texas I

Would play in four top college events so I called coach I said hey is there any way I can come back for this semester is that like legal is this can I be set up is this do you have the scholar like scholarship for it whatever and he’s

Like yeah no problem I had already held on to it just in case and I was like so I was actually on my parents couch I was living with them and uh I called coach and then the next day I packed my bags and drove to Austin and got an apartment

And I went to school that fall to prepare for for Q school because I knew I’d get four starts wow I’m sure you got four A’s as well that uh in that fall semester well I only had to pass 12 I only had to pass

12 hours no maybe nine nine or 12 12 I only had I only had to pass six two classes is that six hours yeah that’s I think so that sounds right I had to p i well I was taking 12 and then I said coach what what do I need what do

You need for me to not lose you know scholarships and eligibilities like you have to pass two classes so I went to my two worst grades and then I dropped out of the classes and then uh I kept my other two and they were both night

Classes so I could just I could just go to the course you know it was Daylight savings so I was back by the time anyway so I could just wake up and and practice and then go back and yeah it was it’s not advised um stay in school kids um I

Got I got lucky uh it doesn’t always happen um well if you ever if you ever need a degree you can Bor borrow mine uh yeah hum yes but that’s from LSU so that’s like the equivalent of here we go here we go hey go ders go digas

2013 besides all the accolades I look back at your Strokes gain data I mean it was incredible you were six in Strokes gain that that year you’re 18th in driving accuracy which is for I’ve played a lot of golf with you I mean that’s that’s pretty dang good 18th is

Is very straight for the PJ tour 67% of your Fairways how how well were you playing that year were you was it as good a golf as you probably um statistically standpoint it looked it looked incredible yeah I was playing really well you got to also remember I wasn’t

Playing in the biggest events um and therefore I think that helps your Strokes gained a little bit you play on a I would say some of the easier courses um I wasn’t in the Masters that year I wasn’t in the players that year uh so there was definitely some bias little

Fraudulent little fraudulent stats maybe a little bit right um but I did you know I I didn’t hit it near anywhere near as far as as I do today although I think everybody could say Technology’s helped over a decade but um yeah I was I was

Hitting it really well I I honestly I was having a I was having a good year I was playing better than the year before and uh um 2012 was a pretty pretty solid year in college for me but it wasn’t really um a massive step off of just

Call it 2011 and then I started to really once I turned professional I had so much more time and I ended up really dialing in a lot of the stuff and learning a lot from the guys I was practicing with I was lucky I had great

Guys take me under their wing um on the PGA tour and I got to I never felt lonely um which was fun to have guys play practice rounds and just watch the shots they hit and stuff so was always a pretty good wedge player and and keeping

The ball you know in between the beacons and and it was just a fine- tuning and and again getting that putter to to get hot where it was pretty cold to start the year so um the rest of that year you know I I felt

That the first half was all the fight to try and get a place to play and once I had that it just felt super free um and I was 20 and 19 turning 20 and then I just ended up the John Deere was what got me into the playoffs and propelled

To the next level the rest of that year so um that was um you know that that was a bit unexpected right at the end I I made a bunker shot but I also needed some help Zack bogie the 72nd hole I think Daniel summer Hayes was leading

And shot one or two over that final round so I needed some help and um but when I won there and I got into the playoffs I ended up taking advantage of that and um working my way up and it was the I eagled like I eagled a 72nd hole

In Boston and I was paired with Mickelson and I remember him telling me after the round that he was going to call Freddy Couples about making sure that I would get picked on that team and uh I I mean as you mentioned I would have never guessed President’s Cup I

Mean even up through John Deere it was like I’m not going to be in the playoffs so I I just take off the playoffs and get ready for the fall series and all of a sudden I’m going to Jack’s place to play in a President’s Cup that year it

Was just there was that part went by really quick as well and it’s where you are there this week I was going to ask you that question how much confidence did that give you being picked by Freddy who’s Hall of Fame player and then Tiger Woods and Phil Mickelson who were also

On that team you just mentioned Phil but to get the sign off from then has to be just all you need as a player especially coming up it’s like okay I know I can compete against these guys I’ve seen it um I’m I know I’m better but then you

Have the veterans who’ve been playing for so long that had so much success then they say wait no we have to have this guy for you like what did that mean yeah that was that was pretty neat hearing that when it happened um you know it’s weird it’s like I you just I

Never I don’t remember ever thinking too hard about it like it was oh all right well how do I how do I sneak a Michelob Ultra for when I’m getting a ride to the airport like you know because I’m I’m not 21 like it was I didn’t it just

Didn’t seem that big of a deal it was I was just playing golf I mean beauty of it right I mean it’s just the beauty of it but um I remember being obviously very excited about that and then I remember playing and I was paired with with Steve Stricker in the first

Round and it was the first first uh first day and I was so nervous um to play in the event and you know on the first te the the Aussies they travel really well and those guys had some chant that like Steve could be my dad

Which you know he very very well could be my dad um and we were playing you know best ball together and I I played number one okay but Steve birdied it and then I hit it in the water on two I hit my second shot in the water on three and

I chunk a six iron 30 yards short of the green on four and I’m just I’m all out of sorts and strick puts his arm around me and he goes all right kid you know I got you don’t worry about it take a deep breath I’ll get you until until you

Settle in and it was just really it was a cool Mo I mean anyone who knows strick at all would not be surprised by that but um it was just a it was a cool moment that I want to say settled me down but to be fair I don’t think it did

I was just fortunate enough to birdie number six and I think that got me settled in but um it was a it was a it was a crazy experience because these team events are just so different the Roars are like if you make a big putt on the

Biggest you know on seeven on the on a 17 par three hole but it’s every single birdie and you’re just like wow this is crazy and just being in the like you know being in the team room having those guys in your corner wanting to be on

That team and then being able to practice with them and um these guys that a year before I could have been out at a tournament I mean I was 2012 I went to the MonDay practice round of the Masters so the year before I was out you

Know watching these guys some of my heroes in the game and and then playing alongside them a year later um it was just it was so so quick and I was trying to take it all in um and I was also sitting there going well if they want me

Here and they think I belong here then you know how do I how do I try and get better than them you know I mean it’s a crazy rise man and you had a good presence cup went two and two you’re were you two and one playing with with

Uh with strick and then lost in in singles to Graham DEET that is that correct strick was two in one playing me yeah play excuse me St stri strick was two strick was two and one and I was along for the ride oh there you go and then Graham deette a

Bunker shot team to win the match I had about a 15-footer that would have tied it or if he didn’t get up and down would have won it um so yeah two and two it was fun it was cool so you talked about uh strick putting his arm around you and

He obviously was uh one of the veterans on that team and there were plenty of veterans in that locker room now I would say you’re considered to be the veteran of the President’s Cup Ridder Cup teams have you felt that type of role now have you taken on that type of Steve Stricker

Putting your arm around a kid who hasn’t done it quite yet in these team rooms you know it’s well it’s a bit odd because I’m 29 so you’re still young but man you’ve how many you’ve played in so many Rider cup and um in pres yeah it’s

Um I feel like I’ll get asked questions but I don’t feel like there’s still I would I’ll go back to presence Cup last year the cup the year before I mean I’m I’m not the oldest one in the room you know between Harris English Patrick kentley and Justin’s older than me

Xander you know these are guys a lot of guys that grew up in in the same grade but then some guys that are even older and it’s just I guess it’s these guys are such great players and and play at the their best golf at the highest level it’s like what and I

Watch it and I’m their peer what exactly can I really say or do do other than hear like few and far between but be able to say hey this is a situation where I think we need to we need to calm down a little bit you know maybe reel in

The breaks a little bit and and recognize that we still got to go out and earn it tomorrow and um I wouldn’t say anyone ever gets ahead of themselves but you you know momentum’s such a big thing in those team events and trying to find a way to be light but still

Everyone individually prepare the way that they so well for big events it’s that balance that I think um it’s more of a collective thing I don’t think there’s ever there’s not a need anymore for someone to go put their arm around somebody because everyone’s doing it all

Week helping each other out and playing games with each other and challenging them to practice a certain shot on the green just it’s a more there’s more um communication and there’s more uh kind of going back to you know some of those Junior events that we played where you’re just messing round

After the round doing a putting contest stuff like that than we do in a normal week and and I think it helps um and we’ve seen a lot of I mean pretty pretty good amount of success over the last three team events so um I don’t find that I need to I’ve

Needed to do that um strick was also probably 45 at the time so yeah I was about to ask you know I I was curious because the teams now it seems most most of the guys are kind of around the same age I would say more on the younger side

You know a full career ahead of them you know tons of success from all the players on the team which is typical but you just seem it just seems when you look at the team now you’re just like okay top to bottom any of these guys can

Win a major championship when they Tee It Up and maybe that wouldn’t be said about teams in the past it’s just a very deep us team now a young team that seems to it just it seems like they’re all in their peak time like all of y’all are

Just in your Peak period of this is I’ve got experience I’ve won and now I’ve played in these events and to me that’s why I feel like yall had so much success is you know each other and you’re all uh kind of in that that time where you’ve

Had a bunch of success yeah we got pretty much everyone on the team wants to play every single match you know and so you’re fighting hard to earn the other matches you’re almost trying to beat the other guys on your team that’s kind of how I mean honestly the success

That I had with Pat Reed we both wanted to be the one that was taking the credit we wanted to beat each other and therefore it led to I would also say like you know the culture itself I think and and you’d have to ask Scotty straight up but it happened to me

In 2014 um as far as just having success in the writer cup and doing it on foreign soil it felt like I had I had contended at the Masters and the players in 2014 and I came up short and then at after the Ryder Cup I felt like I found that

Little extra gear to be able to close stuff out um interesting and those felt like the back nine of winning a major every single match and so when you when you won them it was like all right this doesn’t I didn’t do anything different you know I just did this a little bit

Better and it led to I think it was it was a massive um step in the direction that led to my 2015 season and you look at Scotty and he hadn’t won at the Ryder Cup and I just think the culture around and the belief like you know everyone on

That team wanted him to get he was like one of the last couple picks and everyone wanted him to be on that team and I think that kind of belief in him that maybe took him to that next level of oh these guys see that I’m this

Capable player I probably felt that way but I’ve come up short enough to not be certain you know it’s I can I would imagine just in the time I haven’t spoken depth with him about the impact he thought that rder cup made but when he goes out and beats

You know number one in the world and then it leads to that next year it’s like man I’ve I’ve lived this you know I’ve seen this and um uh I I would be surprised if he didn’t if he didn’t feel that that had something to do with it so

That culture is gon to continue to to make guys feel you know like a Cameron young I mean he’s just one little one little thing away from going off he’s about as talented as anybody that’s out there so it’s that you just keep putting yourself on those teams and it does a

Lot individually for you the next year too man that’s such a great point and uh I I’ve said the same about I believe that you and I are not the only people to say that about Scotty playing John RAM and getting that confidence and and

Then going on a run that he has has been uh crazy he’s he’s fun to watch play and so is Cameron young um the next part I’m going to talk about this is actually a funny story that that you and I took paron this was uh 2016 spring break and

We did go bowling we talked about JT I talked to JT on the podcast the other day we did go bowling but we went back to Ricky’s house and you and I played horse pop a shot in Ricky’s uh den and we probably played for an hour played

Five five or so games and we played loser had to take a I believe it was a tequila shot um I’m not quite sure if that’s what was cuz you wouldn’t know because you didn’t lose and I considered myself to be a great horse POA shot

Player feel like I’m one of the best in the world but I ran into a better match that day and I’ll one of the things I realized this and we had we had known each other but we haven’t hunged out to the extent is that I was like man this

Guy’s really competitive and he doesn’t want to lose and i’ I feel like I’m the exact same way I’m wired the same way and I was so frustrated to lose and boy was I hung over that next day as before we went to Baker’s Bay um but heading

Into two weeks back were me and you were paired together the only time we were ever played paired together on the PJ tour was at the Masters that final round and on 13 so after 12 we get to 13 and what I watched from you from 13 to 18

Was what I saw in that Papa shot was how competitive and how badly you want to win and how were you able to not dwell on 12 and then still go out on those last six holes and literally gave it everything you had which people tend to forget about but I saw it

Firstand yeah I think at that point it’s almost like I mean it can’t get much worse um what’s done is done it’s that old saying that we probably don’t do enough of you know you can’t control what just happened you can can only control what’s coming next

And um I don’t know what got me into gear to be able to go I think I ended up playing the last uh six holes and maybe two under with three birdies and a I think a bogie 17 but um it was closer than that though

It was closer to being more like four or five really oh yeah yeah yeah I mean I had a I had a good look on 16 and I had a couple looks on 16 17 but um yeah it was just one of those like all right

Well at this point you know I went from playing ahead all week now I got to play from behind now I play Attack Mode which I like doing more um clearly I tried to play Attack Mode when I shouldn’t have um in places but now I can and and at

This point I have there is nothing to lose I I you know there’s all there’s all the gain and I just kind of flipped into a different mindset I made a made a putt maybe of like 10 feet I think I remember on 13 for birdie and when it

Went in I thought okay you know I’m right back I I I feel good I feel good I’m right back where I want to be I needed to make a birdie there um and I made I think it was actually right of the hole to like a middle right pin

Short right of the hole and made a nice putt um I was in the same spot and I decided instead I think I believe you chipped it I used a three-wood and actually um I HD it in the water from there it wasn’t a great play oh see I

Was um youa I was in my own world at that point I didn’t remember that I do remember that you made a two on 12 and to this day I’d still pay you a million for that too but um hey did you know that mik you know that grow didn’t I I

Was talking to him about this the other day he didn’t even know I made a birdie that day I had to tell him that day I was like dude you didn’t know I made a birdie I fist pumped and by the way apologize for fist pumping on 12 I uh

Hadn’t seen a ball go in the hole the entire day so when I saw it go in for 15 feet I was like oh thank God you know I finally made a putt so plus you to wait like a solid 25 minutes between t-shot and H so that’s hard

To oh man I mean I’ve I’ve told the story before and you know it but maybe some of your listeners don’t but walking up to 13 you know I got to the tea there and you it’s all quiet right it’s a quiet feels like the quiet even quieter at that point and I

Remember saying I remember asking you who whose tea it is and you were just like in shock you you didn’t know what to say you’re like ah and I was I just kind of smiled at you like try to make a joke of it I know I

Know but like what like what in your mind was like I gotta like somehow make make this a joke and just get is was that your way of like moving on from the situation I get like I get like Chandler on friends in like uncomfortable situations I always turn to like a joke

And uh it was an uncomfortable situation so I guess that’s what happened um it was my oh man you’re right man when you say shock I was like I’ve never been more clueless on what my next word was going to be sorry

I I had a I had a two I’ll go um I had a two man so you know what’s funny about that day is my I’ve had a lot of I’ve had a lot of really cool moments playing playing the Masters I birdied 15 and as I walked to

16t there’s been a number of times where I’ve made runs even the year the year before when I won where the crowd starts to slowly rise like a standing ovation walking to 16 um when they can feel it you know that everyone’s roooting for you um and it’s just such a cool feeling

I me gives me chills right now thinking about it I was right there I that one was like next level it was as we got off of 15 walking to 16 I mean you could feel the entire Place rise up and like try to will will everything in and I hit

A really good shot on six it ended up set like maybe eight or nine feet past the hole which unfortunately is just such a such a hard putt but like you know you take the shot off the te but um that moment walking from 15 to 16 I’ll

Never forget it was just one of the coolest like in such you know such a weird space a place I’d never been before um to have you know everyone on your side it was it was even heighten more than other years it was it was really really neat I mean I

Was going to say I was right there beside you with that and I’ll never forget that moment and what that crowd was was trying to do to will you to win and after you hit your shot on 16 everybody like jumped on their feet and I it sounded like a football game

Seriously as soon as you hit the shot I’m thinking like where am I playing golf right now this is not real life and then I’m watching it in the air I’m like oh my God he’s going to make a one and I’m sitting there it’s like oh crap I

Got a hit again like dude it was such an emotional day that I I hit it so well it felt like the first 12 holes are well enough to at least be around even par and puted terribly and just didn’t never got comfortable with the greens and and

Then we get to that stretch on 12 and then 13 now you’re willing the crowd back it was just I’ll never have a day obviously I’ll never play the Masters probably again but a day like that it was just insane and that when I was

Talking to you about like how how it was coming down those last six holes that’s kind of what I was referring to was that you were able to inspire a crowd like you did it was just absolutely nuts yeah it was it was cool I mean I you know the

Opening 17 I had a similar situation I got off to that time I got off to a really bad start obviously the 13th hole gets a lot of um the talk there but I actually started like two over through four maybe three and and then I bured

The fifth but I made another couple Bogies around the turn and I lost a three shot lead and it was the same deal like after 13 that day I just it was hey I go from the hunted to the Hunter and I just I like I like that

Um and just kick back into gear and it’s like hey this has already happened it’s like for whatever reason in those big moments I find it easier to play the right mental game versus like a regular Thursday or Friday call it this week where I’m like man I just really wish

That I didn’t hit a pitching wedge on three and fly that green you know what I mean like yeah it’s easier for me to shut it off for whatever reason and it has been in bigger moments and and regroup almost because you’re just like hey you’re out here you’re exposed and

You have to versus um Sometimes some of the just regular rounds so do you think you would have won that 2017 Open Championship without the experience you gained from the 2016 Masters yeah yeah I do just slowing what do you think just slowing yourself down on 13 and then

Getting into that attack mode like you’re talking about yeah I don’t think um nothing crossed my mind other than that tournament I wasn’t thinking back I wasn’t thinking forward I I um so there there was no like oh no here here it goes again on 13 I get really um and I’m

Sure you feel this way too like I was playing I was playing better than anyone at the world at the time and I had unbelievable control of my golf ball and I just simply just if I was putting decent I was winning at that point I had

Just won three weeks before um you know I ended up the two I finished second and lost in the playoff the two tournaments after the open yeah and won the open so it was it was just one of those periods of time

I mean I was just so I had so much I was almost just upset like I’m like man I’m I know that I’m I’m better than whoever I’m playing against is it happened to be Matt coocher there didn’t matter who it was I know that I’m better than who’s

Across from me and I’m just letting them in it and I was just mad at my myself for the the weirdness of letting them in it just hitting uncharacteristic that had nothing to do with like most of them I just missed some putts early but like uncharacteristic shots that had nothing

To do with nerves or anything like that they were just like I probably shouldn’t have played a fade there with that rain coming down you know and just get a water water ball like just like random decisions that I just wasn’t really paying attention so that was where my

Mind was it was it was um man I know I’m playing this good I just need to just just see one shot you know I just need I just need to feel like I gained one shot and that 14th hole did that yep you almost made an from there I was like oh

I got this you know it was weird it was I still have four holes left but it’s like man I’ve already I’ve already lost it gained it back and now it’s just a smooth ride you made that made that famous putt we told Michael go get that that was that was incredible it

Was amazing and uh and we keep moving on and we we head to 2018 2019 you you referenced how well you were hitting it really up to that point to to 17 or so how good your ball striking was putting you had years where you’re unbelievable

Years that were up and down but really when you got to 1819 is where I feel like your ball striking definitely uh went down and and you and I have talked about the swing changes you went I was you know with you at times in cars you

Were telling me all the stuff you’re working on and you always kept referencing back to Old swings back in 13 14 15 and so this is what I was doing then and this is what it looks like now why is it so hard to regain an old

Feel well I think there’s a couple things one for me at that time and I only really recognize it now uh now a couple years ago I guess when I started to recognize it but um so I busted my hand up pretty bad training in

Late 17 yeah and I got a bone spur MRI the whole Shang and they said you know it’s not something to operate on it’s something to just manage the pain and I went in and and Cameron would attest to this so I’d go in and started to kind of

Not hit it well and he’s like look your grip is you already have a weak grip you can’t go weaker you’re in where you can go and you’re where you’ve been before but you don’t have any room to go weaker and right now you’re going weaker and

When I would strengthen it when I got to like a four iron and up I mean I couldn’t grip it it hurt so bad and so instead of getting that fixed I just decided to grip it where it would be okay well I got super open-faced and

From open face um you’ve got to get with the Motions I was doing you know the face was five degrees more open so every shot that would have gone straight is now five degrees offline well that’s out of bounds with the driver yep so um then I start backing up and

Flipping um now I don’t have a fade anymore I can only hit draws and they require timing and I went it just seems like how how could you do this you know how do you not and I trust me I’ve I’ve lost plenty of nights of sleep over the

Years off that um of what would have been if I had just done this or that but right um that’s really like when I look back um that was the Catalyst for a lot of uh my my down years uh because back when I when I finally committed to rest strengthening

My grip which wasn’t until 2021 wow so that’s that’s a three-year Gap we’re talking about so what were what were you chasing during those three years I was chasing trying to map the videos I had of swings from call it 2017 with a we grip but with a weaker grip so it would

Never look it couldn’t look the same because the position you’d be in you know the face is in a different spot and even if you get the face in the right spot now the shaft is or the pro the problem is I’ve taken my body totally

Out of it I my body’s not involved in hitting the ball anymore it’s all arms and hands which puts more of an impact on your on your hand that’s already an issue as well yes yes precisely but it’s not an issue if I don’t grip it the right way so then

I commit to gripping it stronger I start to play really well the beginning of 2021 with a um just a couple impact feels with a stronger grip and making it feel like I’m you I’m just using my body so I felt like I could hit a little low

Peeler cut whenever I wanted to just just having all I the the only thing that had to click for me was just having confidence in my start lines like if I was like okay I know for a fact that that’s going to start there um regardless of if it curves enough to get

Back to the Fairway or if it just hangs straight at least I know it’s going to start there and that level of freedom is massive versus having a two-way Miss and um but what started happening is I started to feel a bunch of pain again as

I got to the the middle of that year and that’s when I finally was like wow okay every time I swing it well with the right grip and I the right motion and impact it hurts so I shot it up um July of 2021 after the open I I finished

Second at the open that year I had a pretty good year but I was playing through some anyway so you put it incredible in 2018 2019 year was your best statistical putting year uh 19 yeah the 19 season yeah the 19 season was was was

Incredible and if I just hit it on the like I finished third at the PGA at Beth Page and I mean the ball was going everywhere at a PGA and finished third and that isal group with Brooks on Saturday and I’m standing on that te and

I’m like well look I mean I know what it’s like to have it I’ve been here before I know what it’s like to have it I don’t have it like this is I was in the final group a number of Saturdays that year in 2019 and I’m sitting there think I’m sitting there

Thinking this this is a crapshoot like I know I’m going to make some putts but I got no freaking clue where this Ball’s going and it’s just a really tough feeling because the expectation level from the outside is oh well he’s obviously back and playing well but I

Know like I made it work you know I used my hands really well and I can shoot three rounds of five under but there’s going to be a two over round in there and you’re not going to win um so to be fair you know it was just a it was going

To be a timing thing and timing gets harder Under Pressure you know things are moving faster and um so I was having tough Saturdays or or and and then I’d have an easier Sunday because I threw myself out on Saturday and that was really the 2019 even 2020 season for me

So um it felt really good um to to manage stuff back and it kind of yeah it was uh as you’re mentioning that’s what I was trying to do in 1819 and and I didn’t know why I couldn’t do it and that was the most frustrating part I’d try three different totally

Different swing Fields yeah on one range session and walk away being like man I didn’t gain anything out of this day and I think one of the one of the best parts about our sport is how it you can feel when you know you’re working on the

Right thing and you come out of a session knowing that you got a little bit better that day and you’re confident in what you’re working on that’s something I took for granted and honestly there’s a lot of professionals who who never have anything any other

Way um they felt they feel feel that way most of the time over their careers but um sometimes you know there’s situations where you don’t and you look back and you’re like man if I just rested it would have been better for me today but you have no it’s like when things are

When things aren’t going well you have less patience when things are going well you have more patience and um it’s just funny how how the the brain works and especially how the how golf plays with it um and it just it didn’t take much um but it took a little bit of commitment

To something I wasn’t wasn’t doing to kind of start to get things back in track and I mean I missed the cut at in 2021 my first event was San Diego and I missed the cut and I was I mean my wife will tell you I was at I was the

Lowest of the low I was the lowest I I’d ever felt I was like kind of excited I had started to do some new things some breathing stuff some talking to some people I was like making some strides to do stuff off the course to to get better

And um and I thought you know let’s get started on the right foot and I missed the cut and it was just awful and then by that next Saturday I shot 61 at the at Phoenix and it was honestly that Tuesday it was like it wasn’t like a light bulb

Everything’s right back to normal but it was like man I can play you know I can do this I was still in a place where I was playing in the final group Sunday alongside Xander and Scotty and uh on number one you know my vision

At the time was still I could hit this hybrid out of bounds yeah like this is something that Tiger Woods has never felt like it was enough Scar Tissue there that I was sitting there going holy smokes and I almost did hit it out of bounds to be honest um

But I knew that once I got started I would settle in and I knew that I had a shot I could play and that was like I was just so grateful to feel that little bit of freedom and feel like wow I can actually have fun playing golf again you

Know yeah I mean I I remember watching and I was going to ask you uh what was you know the the tournament where you really was the Breakthrough and and I had in my notes that that Saturday at the Phoenix Open was where I felt like

Your confidence I could see it come back now was it all the way there uh probably not but I knew that you were going to continue to build on it and did and to me one of the things when I spoke to you and all those things you just spoke

About are things that I dealt with as well I had injuries I I struggled with um where I should have taken a break and then I had all the same open Club face weak grip all that same stuff and and then it bleeds into the mental game like

You’re talking about and I think that was the most impressive part about that time period to me is that first you never doubted yourself and then two you were able to still be near the top of the leaderboard heading the weekends even though it was a timing element I

Still just was blown away I was like God this guy is so good at getting the ball in the hole that I just I couldn’t fathom myself because I knew exactly what you’re going through and the go level of golf still that you were able

To play was is was incredible to even in your worst times yeah it was um it was just so few and far between right the consistency there um but then you know and then you’d have a good week you’d be like man I’m on to something with this swing too

And then all of a sudden it just doesn’t let you down the next week so it’s just a it was just such an emotional cycle and the stability and consistency that I had just had the luxury of for so long you know had gone away and I just

Yearned for just a resemblance like I I literally I I said it I said it a number of times to a number of people but I was like I don’t care if I never win another golf tournament just want to feel freedom playing golf because I love

Playing golf and I just want to feel like I’m not trying not to do something and I just want to play in a place of freedom and I I try to remember that all the time now you know that that I feel more consistent and you know in a better

Place is like you know if how do I how am I going to feel free today you know it’s why we play this game it’s just um yeah you know you my expectation is uh my expectation level stays really high because I believe if I was able to do something

That I could do it again or or do it even better and I should be in a place where I can you know I’m stronger and more flexible and still young enough um for the next 10 years that I believe that I have the capabilities to be

Better than I ever have but I still want to kind of tap the brakes as far as trying to rush it and um and catch myself if I’m getting a little a little ahead of myself and recognize that you just got to I mean my dad’s always said

It to me just try to get 1% better each day and um the more you’re a little impatient trying to trying to push five% you don’t you don’t gain that one but um it’s just a it’s a it’s just a funny game but it’s there’s a reason the all

These former athletes are playing it right right like um one it’s a game that you physically can do um you know I don’t think you and I can go lace it up and play four quarters especially can’t get on ice skates and play 60 Minutes um so there’s certainly something to that

But there’s also just that that side that these guys it’s something to constantly improve on that’ll constantly mess with them and it’s addicting in that way and that’s my point is you know I’m I’ve always been addicted to the game and I’ve always loved it when you

Don’t feel like you have a level of freedom and you start to not love it it’s just such a demoralizing feeling and finding a way to um to fall in love with it again however you can is was really my goal and um and honestly um

You know I credit you know my coach um you know quite a bit for some of the progress I credit Jason duffner quite a bit for a lot of it he was very helpful in um telling using a players perspective on feel um this is this is how I imagine

This should feel for you and it only takes a few and you’re like okay that’s you know I wouldn’t say it’s like picking up a putter at you know Golf Galaxy and you make three putts and you’re like oh I’m I’m getting this Putter and all in it’s not quite didn’t know why

That was so good back then but now I know you know it’s almost I can’t remember I think I was talking to like I think tiger mentioned this one time and he said you know you typically find the best players in the world on one end of the

Spectrum or the other the guys who don’t need to think and just step up and hit or the guys who know exactly what they’re doing why they’re doing how they’re doing it and continue to do it over and over again and you have some of the greatest players to ever play on

Both ends but the guy stuck in the middle you know can’t don’t quite have that greatness level and um you know I just found myself stuck in the middle there where I I didn’t know for a while I was pegged as when I came out I pegged

I was pegged as way older for his age the maturity level knows exactly what he’s doing I didn’t know jack [ __ ] about the golf swing I didn’t know why I did what I did well I didn’t know what I thought shallow meant laid off so different I thought that I you know I

Was told oh he he has a laid off swings like no actually I was super Steep and then shallowed it into a slot really well like these kind of I just I was just go play and then when you start diving you can’t go backwards that’s the

Thing once you start moving this way you can’t go so you either got to go all the way or you get stuck and um I wouldn’t say I’m all the way but at least I got a good gauge on what my weapons are and how to get there um and it’s still a

Constant process so you gain all this confidence and you’re playing with a ton of Freedom like you mentioned but to me what I’ve noticed as I watch you now is that you’re really starting to play creative and to me when you’re playing creative you’re playing your best golf

You play golf as an artist you see shots you see windows it’s like it’s why you’re so good out of the trees is because it shapes the window that you have to see and when you’re playing poorly it’s very difficult to play creative and honestly if you do try to

Play Creative you play too creative and you try to turn it too much where you should be more simple in in hitting it just just one shot it but it doesn’t work that way for a creative mind like yours did you kind of fight that as far

As curvature of the golf ball and hitting it straight and what shot you should be playing when you were struggling I think the the easiest way to say this I tried to make swings instead of hit shots and I think that’s what you’re saying right I mean you’re

You’re trying to make swings there’s a lot of guys who try to make swings and they make a nice career out of it but I mean look at John RAM and Scotty Sheffer look at how different their action is and uh even Rory is so different from both of them

Um you know they’re hitting shots um they’re playing they’re playing golf they’re not making swings regardless of the rehearsals I mean John ROM’s the best example I mean I can’t remember ever seeing him like work on something even in a rehearsal um you went through

That sure and I always have like and you know maybe for and I’m not saying he doesn’t you know for follow through for what shot he needs to play and stuff I’m saying like a drastic move you know yeah yeah yeah um he hasn’t he he he hasn’t

Needed to um and it’s a beautiful place to be and play from and I’ve been there and you just you don’t know any different um so it’s a luxury uh you know you never uh but the um I think when you get to a point where you’re

Comfortable enough again I just go back to start lines like if I feel like my start lines are going to be good then I know I can play one shot like I can go to I can go to a nice Pinchy fade and I can play it in the left pins right pins

Doesn’t matter if I know the ball’s going to work left to right and I know it’s going to launch around the right line there’s there’s something to be said about that but for myself who likes to do a lot of working the ball both directions especially in you know an

Iron play um that that can get a little I can get a little maybe too creative I can get a little little out of control with it um where it’s just a little unnecessary but one one thing I I I can’t stand a flat lie with no win to a

Middle pin I just don’t see it I don’t know what I like if you tell me that right now I’m like I don’t know what’s the number you know I don’t know a shot I’d hit um same as like an uphill straight putt yeah I mean you know technically a downhill straight putts

Easier gravity brings it back into the line um it it’s kind of the same deal I always like like even on a pill straight putt i’ like to I’d like to even think oh yeah it’ll probably kick a little right then a little left and then I can

Commit I’m like okay it’ll double break even though it’s gonna be just dead straight um it’s just I don’t know maybe growing up in Texas in the wind and stuff you just never really had the opportunity to hit a a dome shot a straight shot so um yeah make playing

Playing the goal is to is to hit shots and not make swings and the that’s the one thing I will say that this increase in technology that I think is hurt me for a while um technology in the game of golf does so much good but I worry about

It a little bit with the Next Generation and because I didn’t video One golf swing until I was 23 years old and I think you know there’s seven eight nine 10 year olds that are dissecting you know it’s fine for an instructor to do it but I just I don’t I don’t think

It’s a good option um for kids to be doing that because everyone’s got their natural move look at the three guys I just mentioned if they went and tried to swing a certain way at a really young age who knows if they’d be where they are now so um it’s

Just I don’t I don’t think I think it just it’s got to be done the right way with the right instructor and at the right time um it’s certainly good to know why you do what you do well but I think everyone has a certain balance of

What’s most beneficial for them as far as using technology well even in this social media culture that we live in now it’s so easy to compare yourself to other people and then compare your golf swing to other people like you’re talking about and kids at a young age could

Definitely not be uh leaned on to know exactly what to do and that’s ex you know I couldn’t agree with you more on that segment and let me ask you this so Annie you mentioned her and when you rent your lowest of lows of the farmers

When you miss that cut as far as perspective goes from from all that you’ve been through through the highs and the lows and talking about now that you have Sammy you’re a dad when you walk off the golf course for you do you just have a different sense of like just not quite

As you care quite as much you know what I mean like you just care too much about this game but for you are you able to just go home now and and and be the dad and and just have that release you know it’s not something that

It’s something I recognized I was doing myself I wasn’t um I’m sure it was recognized by any but it wasn’t a place where she felt like it was the right time to say something but I was just doing a really poor job of separating um you know work and home it

Had never been something that really was worth separating for a lot of My Life um you know everything was good and so everything was just good off and I was the extension of of my golf game there and um and then I had to kind

Of I had to kind of gain perspective I guess um that again I was people thought I was way more mature than my age and stuff but and maybe in the way I would tactically take a part of golf course but certainly that was probably it

Um and I felt like I feel like now I do a far better job than ever of separating the two um because I think just for stress levels longevity um you have to I mean you just you have to have a release in an out and if that release

Can be you know family I mean some guys got Hobbies um if that release can be a family where everything’s great um that’s not always going to be the case either so uh certainly um finding a way to do that it it doesn’t mean that you just have to be

Fake you know if you have a really bad day I don’t just go home and like fake put on a smile but if you’re able to just get the get the get your job off your mind by finding something to do with your kid or you know or go on a

Date night or whatever it may be um where you’re not talking about the game um Scotty talks about that a lot he picks up a lot of hobbies um goes plays pickle ball all the time or finds something to do sh play basketball because he doesn’t because of when he’s

Home he thinks about golf um we’re all kind of like that right so um having a family has really helped because I’ve especially when things aren’t going as well I’ve had to really be conscious about separating the two and it’s been something that’s been I I’ve had to very actively work on that

It’s not I spent 20 something years of my life not doing it and uh and that’s hard to kind of create a habit out of you have to do it consistently and and actively work on it and and be very aware of it and you know there were

Probably times where she wanted to say I need you to you know to you know golf’s done for the day you know let’s let’s have fun in times where I was probably just not a whole lot of fun to be around and she didn’t say it because um she

Knew how I was feeling about everything but um and I’m very appreciative of that now I I it wasn’t probably the right time or way to do it because I wasn’t in a place where maybe I was mature enough or at least aware enough of how necessary I needed to do something that

I just had to learn on my own um in a way well your dad to Sammy now and uh if if you want to listen to an in-depth conversation uh you talking to my man Brendan Wall go check out dad the man podcast that was actually a very fun

Conversation to listen to you go in to not being on social media to being what it’s like being a father and all the things you’ve learned along the way I I actually took a lot out of that conversation as a new dad some of the things you talked about were so

Relatable so definitely go check that out and my man B wall he’s always keeping a reel over there dad the man podcast and I’ll finish with a couple quick thoughts and now that people people helping people and I want to finish with a quick couple thoughts you

Know being on the course getting to watch you play and you know I’m constantly now always watching broadcast because I’m trying to learn uh to be better at TV do you are you aware of how electric and fun it is to watch you play

On TV I don’t know if if you feel that as a uh knowing how entertaining you can be at times but it really is a fun roller coaster to be on at times yeah you know it’s I I don’t mean this personally to you but I always like it strikes a nerve

With me when that’s told because all I want to do is make it as boring as possible I recognize that it’s not um I recognize it has been at times I recognize it’s not but when it’s not it’s like you know I’m doing something wrong

In my mind you know what I mean um but at the same time I also understand how you know that’s had its benefits as well so um I’ll never stop firing at flag sticks it’ll maybe put me in tough spots but life too short to play away from

Pins and I love it if I do if I do play away from it you know if someone pulls up this clip when I’ve hit one 20 feet right of a pin if it weren’t with a two- shot lead on the last hole then it was an accident I promise

Hey yeah I was gonna ask you this do you know what the five best words in goar five best words it’s it’s Mikey this one’s on me ah I mean when coming when you say that it’s like I mean I lock in because I know I’m about to see

Something awesome and if you pull the shot off great if you don’t pull off the shot it’s it’s just it’s electric and I think as broadcasters and and in TV we always lay out for the player caddy conversations and we might as well just call it the Jordan Michael grower rule

Because when you get to say Mikey this one’s on me it’s like yes we get to see some electric stuff here because because Jordan sees something that Mikey doesn’t yeah yeah it’s uh I I want to say that I want to say that I’ve had that

Work out for me more than not but it it’s had its fair share of both sides of that one that’s for sure I uh the only time I’ve said that and and still thought Michael I think you should have done something different was on the cliff at Pebble I kind of

Wish that he just took a seven iron to my ankle and just actually actually knocked me like toward I wish he kicked the side of my knee and I was out for six months with an ACL like and and he he just had he was so

Handcuffed he had no idea I was like Michael I need you to step away from that Hazard step away step away because I was scared of him because I didn’t want him testing the ground I’m already looking like this anyway I appreciate it that is that is funny and um it’s

Typically followed by a smirk from me because Michael steps away like oh boy here we go again and uh um and and uh you know I mean it’s a game and we’re entertainers it’s fun to watch I don’t I don’t ever think about it’s a game and we’re entertainers when we’re playing

Because of that competitiveness that you’re talking about I’m not I’m not the type to shimmy like Steph’s able to be that competitor and still go be an Entertainer and get the crowd going and shimmy to them and stuff I wish that was me I don’t even have an alter ego that

Can do that I don’t you know I’m not gonna be somebody that’s gonna walk around and um I don’t know I’ve seen you after I’ve seen you after a beer pong shot get a little excited yeah you know if I’m dancing there’s something incredibly wrong either that or Justin

Just got married one of the two but yeah there you go um but I will say that you know looking back those are the moments that I remember you know the Mikey this one’s on me those are the moments I remember too so um and it is a game and

We are entertainers and if people weren’t entertained by the way that we played then we wouldn’t we wouldn’t have the PJ tour is where it’s at so um it’s all it’s a dream come true um and and I love doing it and I love seeing you out there now it’s it’s a lot

Of fun enjoy man it’s fun to watch you yeah and all the guys and this week uh you’re at Jack’s Place Memorial as you can see I got the t-shirt on look at this I see that how about that that’s great I am I am with I’m with the week

I’m ready to rock and roll all right so did you did you is that one of the free ones when we registered one year and you just big enough this uh T-Shirt Company sent it to me recently because uh JT wore a Bushwood Country Club t-shirt during the interview he’s like hey we

Got a copy with stuff and then this showed up it’s like oh it’s Memorial week I’ll wear this uh during J Jordan’s interview so you’re at Memorial and uh so you haven’t won this year but I feel like your game has been more than good enough to win and you’ve been close a

Couple times you’ve had injuries you’ve dealt with um for you how would you sum up the year and a follow-up question of that I’m curious do you think it’s harder to win on the PJ tour this tour this year compared to years pass yeah that’s a good question because

Obviously with the elevated events um but still full Fields you’ve now the tournaments that you’re entering technically would be harder to win um I think it’s been a really good year you know from I didn’t get off to a great start the first couple events and then Phoenix

On um it’s it I would qualify it’s got the potential to be a top five year for me and it can it can also be right in the middle um I feel like I’ve played better than the last two years yet the last two years yielded a win by this

Point uh I don’t think I could have done a whole lot differently I wouldn’t have changed anything I did say at Hilton Head you know at Tampa I made one bad swing um you know just like random little things here or there that um you

Know I had a good chance at Bay Hill the Masters I had nine bad holes so like it’s all these everybody can play that game but it’s been just kind of like close enough where I don’t feel that I need to try to do anything differently

Um but having said that you know where I really where I really look on this year I look at I mean I went through call it eight weeks or or 10 weeks of seven or eight tournaments straight where I was gaining at least two strokes in every category and when

That’s happening you’re doing you’re doing the right things you’re preparing the right way every facet of your game’s in the right place and you just need you I’ve had a lot of bounces go my way and I just need you know at this point stay the course and have the bounces go your

Way I mean my my um hand issue has kind of set me back and put me a little rusty right this second but one thing I’m looking forward to this year is when you get to that Scottish British through the playoffs and then hopefully the Ryder

Cup you know this that’s been a time period the last two years where the playoffs into the team and really the playoffs I didn’t play as well as i’ I’d really like to that was kind of the a few of the worst events of of my season the

Last two years in in two pretty good Seasons so I’m I’m really I’m putting I’m I’m I’m going to be preparing with that in mind to try and really look at this this back half of this year is trying to improve on the front half and and not not kind of be

Stagnant not be okay with the year you know what I mean just right um so if that you it doesn’t necessarily I’ve just gotten in this Frame my like I want to win every single week more than anybody else I promise you but I’m not

It doesn’t I don’t have to win to feel that I was successful in a way um and that’s where I think things have changed like I played way better at Hilton Head this year than I did last year and I won last year and I didn’t win this year um

And I I mean way better so that just happen some years you know yeah uh well I’ve had a chance to watch you play I think you’re playing incredible uh I could see a win happening as soon as this week all the best to your injuries

And I really do think that we’re going to see you in the winter Circle soon or rather than later and and most importantly thank you for joining the Smiley Show and it’s always a pleasure and you are always welcome back I’ll be back on thanks SK always I’ve actually watched a couple of

Episodes of of of y’all earlier and uh you guys have some good takes so thanks for uh thanks for what you guys do it’s cool to see what you guys are doing and uh I I know golf fans appreciate it but we we do too so please keep it up I

Think you’re doing a tremendous job and and you know I listen to this podcast is really cool and