Cardinals Worst-Case Scenarios in 2024 (LIVE Q&A) | 67

It’s probably not going to happen this year, we hope, but what if the 2024 Cardinals season goes similarly to the 2023 season? Will Yadier Molina replace Oli Marmol as manager? Will the Cardinals trade Paul Goldschmidt at the Trade Deadline? What about Nolan Arenado? Will we see a youth movement similar to the Reds or Orioles? We’ve got six doomsday predictions for 2024 that we hope won’t happen, but could if the Cardinals can’t improve from an abysmal 2023. Also, we break down the Matt Carpenter signing. What impacts could that move make on the Cardinals’ bench depth and clubhouse leadership?

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Welcome back to another episode of the new news podcast again Sandy myself and Andrew here and we’re talking worst case scenario today guys this is this is if everything’s gonna go wrong everything can go wrong will go wrong in 2024 this is what the world could look

Like for the Cardinals and so I put up an article today over at Redbird rants that kind of discusses six different things I think Could Happen doesn’t mean all six would happen um but like’s let’s set the stage first about what we mean in terms of like a worst case scenario

Season so people are all on the same page about why some of this stuff could happen so when we’re talking these kind of changes to happen it’s the Cardinals re basically repeat 2023 where it’s May June and we have questions about if it’s even possible to get back into the

Playoff race July they’re clear sellers they’re out of it that’s the kind of scenario and like the chaos of what that looks like that’s the only way any of this stuff really looks like it could happen in my opinion um that’s why they seem drastic but if they’re in those

Situations like the things they did last year seemed drastic if you told me preseason they’re going to trade Jordan Montgomery um and wholesale things I’d been like whoa what happened that’s what this is where’re this is the whoa what happened scenario so Sandy Andrew I know you guys have read the article already

So we’ll get into each individual point but how are you feeling coming into this conversation like How likely do you guys like a scale of like percentage wise that something this drastic could happen again next year I feel like it’s it’s higher than people want to say and I don’t I don’t

Want to come in and say that immediately off the bat but like I I don’t know I’m not fully sold to the pitching is going to hold up and I understand that we had a black hole with Woodford and Wayne Wright last year as like one slot in the

Rotation but I don’t know if Lance Lynn is going to like be any better than that cu like the Dodgers pitching lab tried to fix him and it didn’t work and he led the league in like home runs a low I know he’s going to eat Innings and I

Know like I’m coming s’s ready to bite right now but like is Sony gray really that much better than Jordan Montgomery is he okay okay yes yes he is better than Jordan Montgomery because Jordan montgomer is going to get like a like a nine fig contract right because

He’s 20 like or he’s a lot younger he’s get a lot more years yeah also I happens I don’t think it’s like more likely than having a good I still put it at like 20% chance of happening but like okay that’s really high I feel like

Worst case is is a lot likelier than than we’re saying you’re saying like 20% chance that it implodes like like in terms of they have to sell off again not like it didn’t work and they missed the playoffs because they could win 82 games and this didn’t work because they barely

SC missed the playoffs like you mean 20% % chance they win like 72 games and are not even competitive I I don’t know about that I feel like that’s maybe like a 10% chance see that’s what we’re talking about here we’re not talking about 82 and 80 we’re

Talking about okay they’re one of the worst teams 90 Lost season yeah like last season probably like a like eight% let’s put I think it’s lower than that and I think what people are not realizing is how unlikely the the scenario of 2023 really was like how

Much had to go wrong for the Cardinals to be that bad a lot had to go wrong obviously you had weno come into the season with an injury that we didn’t really know anything about the World Baseball Classic happened we don’t know how that impacted the team a lot of our

Team was not there at spring training that’s not a good excuse but like it’s just another thing that was going on The Wil tras Saga in the beginning of the Season had to throw things off um Woodford having to pitch for a long time because weno actually missed so much

Time then weno coming back and being as bad as he was uh there was no depth at Triple A so the Cardinals were able to bring up absolutely zero offensive or really I mean Jordan Walker obviously came up but besides him they had very little interesting uh Prospect depth to

Bring up no impact Talent on the pitching side at all and I think the pitching Now is better I don’t think you’re going to get to a point where the Cardinals like are signing Jacob Barnes and Casey Lawrence and Ryan toera in the middle of the Season yeah like I just

Don’t think they’re gonna run out of innings the way they did um and yeah I just I don’t see it being the same and so that’s why for me I I see this as like a very remote possibility probably like like 3% and that might even be high

Because I think it was unlikely last year and I think the team is better than it was last year and I think they haven’t just improved in the rotation they’ve improved in the bullpen uh offensively these guys are a year older that’s not a great thing for a guy like

Nol or uh Paul gold Schmid but for Nolan Gorman Jordan Walker BR Donovan Mason wi Lars Nar that’s a great go on exactly exactly and then the last thing the depth so much yeah exactly like Casey Lawrence was never planned e or F or G

He was c yeah he was planned hey we just need someone to throw Innings because the season’s over let’s get Casey Lawrence in there and Taylor a little bit more roster construction than anything else but it also was like hey he’s our backup infielder and we had

Injuries like part of the the good things they did at the deadline this offseason is they do have a plethora of starters in Triple A they actually feel like can pitch in the major leagues now where last year McGreevy gfo those guys weren’t ready and so they weren’t going

To throw him to the fire in a Lost season like if they’re in the race they might have done it because they had to but instead they went to Pera and Lawrence and Barnes and all this stuff and then like you said too like they had worst case scenario Seasons from Nolan

Nado and Paul gold Schmid yeah they had a not healthy large Newar G out like like if it’s like we’re not gonna say every single one of these teames is gonna be better next year but even if like pretty much everything that could have gone wrong went wrong last season

So even if half the things don’t go wrong next season or at least aren’t like terrible they’ll be I think they’ll be competitive but again like we saw last year everything can fall apart it’s possible so we have to look at that as an option so let’s jump into it let’s go

Ahead and throw out some I’d probably put it for me like percentage wise like a 5 percent I think it’s very low that it goes this bad but I mean could I see them missing the playoffs and stuff yeah that’s a decent chance 30 or 40% chance yeah

Sock oh yeah go for it so I like looking at schedule I like getting off to a good start and our schedule to start next season we have four against which is not who I want to start off against at any point three against the Padres I don’t

Really know how good they’re going to be next year they starting lineup right now has two non-roster invitees in it so I’m not concerned about the Padre’s and then three against Miami which you never really know how that’s going to go because their pitching is so deep and

Then three against the Phillies and three against the Diamondbacks that is not good at all don’t they play the Braves later in the month too I think um they they go it’s next is the a Brewers Diamondbacks Mets Tigers white so it’s a tough start it’s not impossible like after that you sweep

The A’s you you take two or three from the Brewers and you just play better but like I don’t I can already see how Twitter is going to be as soon as we like start the season three and eight because we got swept by the Dodgers

And drop two or three to the Marland or something and it’s just like a sweep at the Dodgers is unlikely though like I’ll say that I really four games like I n No One’s Gonna be surprised if the Cardinals win two of those yeah the Cardinals on May 7th last year were 11

And 24 like I I also like even worst case scenario this year like that’s horrible like I just don’t see them being even with a tough schedule being that bad but if they are like you point point out injury like if they start off slow we saw what happened they started falling

Apart because they like put pressure on themselves and it’ll be even more so this year so we’ll see just sounds like 30 and0 first mon po against the Dodgers makes me scared and I I know like I’m higher on the Dodgers than probably everyone

Else here but I just I I don’t see how that that starts well for us especially when we have playoff teams for the next like two weeks yeah we’ll see I mean the Dodgers start off against the Mariners I think before that so you’re not even facing

The top rotation to start Padres so like it’s probably they play those games like a week before in Korea so Yamamoto will start game and then you’ll also start their third game which is probably we’ll see so I’m again getting swept is could happen but anyways so let’s jump into it

So again these are just six things I threw out there I don’t necessarily think these are going to happen or definitely don’t think they’re going to happen do I think they’re guaranteed to happen if things go bad no but I think they’re on the table all of them are um

So let’s throw him out there I’ll just submit him in the chat and throw him up here so we can see him as we’re talking about but the first change I talked about potentially happening if things go poorly is they fire Ali hire yti and the

Reason I put this first is I feel like this is the first change they would make this is the Band-Aid this is the Hail Mary this is the let’s see how things go differently um they’re not tied to Oli and they’ve made it this past offseason obviously moock has put his confidence

In him and they really like him if they didn’t like him he wouldn’t be here they’re they’re not going to just hang on to him for no reason I think we might have lost Sandy he’s he’s Frozen right now um oh there we go um so I don’t I

Think they would have made the change already if they didn’t have confidence in him and they’ve already when asked about it kind of kept the door open for a potential controversy there if things don’t go well for yachty to take over so tea leaves are there you have a slow

April like Andrew said or May’s not going well I think you see that change potentially happen what do you guys think I think this might happen regardless of whether or not we have a good season I don’t think it’ll happen in the middle of the Season obviously um

But if we start out terribly um and like if it just doesn’t go well we’ve seen man managerial changes happen in the middle of season twice now I think with um was it twice no uh just once with um coming in um but then like I feel like

There’s a situation where the Cardinals front office has to choose between Oli and yachty at the end of the off season at some or at the end of this regular season some point um because yachi wants to manage in the Major League level and he’s made it clear and he’s like

Obviously his first choice would be to manage the Cardinals but if say the Braves I I always say the Braves I don’t know why I always say the Braves but like if the Braves I don’t think they’re looking to change managers right it was talked about skips there

Now so I don’t think it’d happen but yachty said earlier this offseason that the Marlins approached him last offseason I think it was about joining their coaching staff obviously being a manager but he said other clubs have reached out too or like the tigers or the the I

Don’t know the twins want to change change it up and they give him an offer then he might end up going there and he’ll tell the Cardinals hey either offer me a manager Royal role or I’m going to go somewhere else and I feel like they’re going to have to pick

Between one of the two maybe not this offseason but next offseason this decision is going to come at some point down the line so this seems like the most likely of the six changes because it seems inevitable anyway I can’t see the Cardinals organization allowing yachty to go somewhere else as a manager

Especially when like obviously oi is Mo’s guy but he’s not like the next successor guy at all so I feel like it it’s gonna happen at some point it’s just maybe it’ll happen this season if things go poorly I don’t know I I I’d be surprised

To see Ali fired this season because of how much the Cardinals have shown that they’re confident in him and also like I maybe you don’t believe this as you know we might not believe this as fans I’m sure not everyone does but a lot of players have come out really strongly

And have publicly backed Ali and I think that says a lot um Ali didn’t lose the clubhouse last year and that’s something um that’s become really apparent people assumed that he did at times with the O’Neal stuff but you’ve seen gold Schmid arnado and several others publicly come

Out and say no we’ve got Ali’s back we really like him he’s a good manager and I think that’s important and so I think because of I’d be really shocked especially if like if the wheels fall off sure it’s a normal thing the wheels fall off you say all right whatever

You’re doing is not working we’ll see you hope you can jump start the team uh kind of like they did in 2018 and it almost worked um if the Cardinals hadn’t blown it in the last week to the Rockies it would have so I would be you know if

That happens sure but if not I I doubt it um honestly I think if the Cardinals have a fine year I’d be surprised if they move on from Ali this off season and I also just don’t see yachty as the kind of guy who’s G to go to the office

And say hey like give me the manager role or I’m gonna you know go be a Traer I I just that doesn’t strike me as something he’ do um I just don’t think that’d be a very like good person thing to do in the first place yeah so I don’t

Know I think uh Ali and yachty have mutual respect for one another too that’s I agree talk about so yeah I think it’ll be I also don’t think it’s like a guarantee that he would leave and go do something else because he might I mean obviously he wants to manage at

Some point but it’s been said he wants to manage right now obviously like because they wanted they explored an everyday role with him this year maybe he would have done it if it was a manager role maybe that’s why he didn’t but he also really likes that um to do

His Puerto Rico stuff he’s a basketball team he’s having time with family right now so it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s imminent but also I I also think there’s a scenario where they said they could say hey yachty we love you but we have a manager right now and they mutually just

Say hey it’s just not going to work out I’m going to go manage somewhere else like that’s not it’s not a wrong for him to decide to go manage somewhere else probably to manage somewhere else at some point skip just did it like that’s

Okay um so I agree I do think they would keep Oli if things go well um and Danny sco like a couple of people said that in here I think he he would have a shot like we just had um uh with st clap on like they have other options it doesn’t

Have to be yachty but I do think that’s kind of like what they’ve set themselves up to potentially do so we’ll see so yeah real quick I don’t want to I don’t want to say like if yti goes somewhere else it’s not a bad thing like that’s not what I’m trying

I just him as the type of guy be like overly confrontational about it and like I wasn’t really trying to say that either he was go off be like hey I have this offer yeah I think it’s just natural of like he might have an offer

And it’s like hey we we don’t have a role for you like that and just happens I don’t know if I don’t know if I as a fan or the Cardinal organization could really see him wearing another uniform it just’ be hard completely wrong I mean there he’s coaching like a little league

Team or high school team called the Cubs right now and he’s wearing Cubs Jersey on his Instagram so like you can go look at that it’s not like makes me squirm and makes me uncomfortable even though it’s well I mean the other side of it

Too though is you bring in yachi and I think we’ve talked about this before that’s I don’t know how you end that relationship because most managers end up getting fired at some point Y you’d have to manage for like four decades to to make it all the way through which is

Just unheard of so I I think it’s not that simple to just put them in there because if things go wrong I don’t know what you do so let’s keep it moving just cuz I feel like that’s one we talked about a lot anyways but it’s second a

Drastic change and one that I feel like has been thrown up on the table a little bit more lately as a possibility is Paul gold Schmid being dealt at the deadline so again reminder we are talking about worst case scenario here we’re are not talking about they in the playoff race

Um and worst case scenario could mean he’s playing like old Paul gmid and so you’re looking at him as a super desirable asset the deadline or worst case scenario could be Paul gmid is regressing again and you’re trying to salvage any value from him I do think this is something that’s potentially on

The table if things go south I don’t necessarily think it has to happen if things go south but based on the te leaves again from John MOS this weekend um this past weekend was Paul Gman doesn’t want to sign an extension right now they don’t necessarily want to sign

An extension right now they both want to see how the season plays out there is a third thing that plays into this and I noted in the article and it’s that they cannot resign him right now to anything that’s not they can’t sign him to anything less than 80% of what his

Contract is right now so I think the lowest they could sign him to is 18.5 million because of some CBA rights on an extension so you have to wait for him to hit free agency to give him less money than that so that could be part of it the Cardinals might be comfortable

Signing him at 17 million for two years but he’s wants more than that or maybe he’s comfortable with that too but they can’t do it so both sides are waiting it out to see what happens what do you guys think about the potential in a disaster

Season that Paul could be traded I like that you note that there are two options here because I was about to say the same thing right either Paul’s playing well or he’s playing poorly the team is definitely playing poorly in this scenario yant yeah exactly obviously I hope we

Don’t get here um it’s a shame and I think for me I’ve been really vocal about this on new news in the past where like I a don’t trade Paul goldmit don’t trade Aron a guy um I’m I’m very very much in that camp because I think Paul

Goldman’s Legacy uh as a St Louis Cardinal is starting to get pretty great he’s won an MVP here now he’s been part of some playoff teams here I think there’s a really good shot Paul goldm wears a Cardinal’s hat into the Hall of Fame at this point I think a lot of

People are starting to view him as a cardinal I remember when he first came here people nationally still seem to see him as a diamondback I think we’ve gotten past that I think arnado passed that as a rocky too uh and I think it’s really important right and if you’re

Talking about Legacy and that’s something that comes to mind with a franchise like the Cardinals franchise that has a ton of history and they’re one of MLB’s Premier franchises um no matter how you want to see it they have the second most championships ever they have a ton of Hall of Famers retired

Numbers whatnot um they’re probably thinking about that and so I think they’re thinking about how the torch has been passed from weno yotti Albert to goldmit and arado I think it’s really important for them to have that sort of Link in there uh so there’s definitely

That um but also just from a baseball perspective like I think it’s unlikely that Paul gold Schmid’s playing really poorly and if you want to contend in 2025 I think Paul gold Schmid’s still going to be your best option at first base so I really hope he’s still on the

Team I think Paul goldmit is still a very very good player his peripherals weren’t bad last year even though he ran into a lot of bad luck uh I’m very much in the camp of if you get rid of Paul gold Schmid I don’t see you trying to contend so there’s

That yeah I mean I’m I’m less attached to to gold Schmidt personally I understand not Training hall of famers and yeah like keeping them around with the organization makes a lot of sense also keep in mind that Paul Gman has a full no trade clause so he can’t really

Go anywhere unless he allows the team to trade him there so yeah that’s something that definitely needs to be considered but I mean if the team isn’t winning and I I was I was possibly in favor of pursuing a Paul Goldman trade this offseason to like the Mariners or some

Team that like has all of that pitching talent and I’m was like this was this was part of the the sin Otani thing so like that wasn’t really something that I I believe in anymore um but like if you could have replaced his Bat and traded

Him to get one of the like younger starting pictures from like the Mariners or Marlins one of those teams that would make sense but um it depends on how much value he has I feel like if he’s playing poorly you might want to just hang on to

Him to like just resign him as like a veteran leader presence um because I don’t think that the organization’s that deep at first base like with prospects and what I mean s JayZ can play first yeah but I don’t I feel like that’s not where you maximize his value you at like

A different position and he’ll provide better defense than at like first base but I won’t name who but what if Wilson conteras was the first baseman next year that was a conversation that was had at winter warmup last year we were talking I’m not gonna name names because

I don’t want it getting aggregated and no one was saying this is going to happen but they’re like if Goldman’s not here next year who’s more likely to be the first baseman they said Wilson conteras or Luke Baker and everyone said wil now again over wi Baker like I think

S JC Donovan Alec RS he could all play first base but I was talking to someone the other day about this Wilson Contreras was like a top seven off statistically offensive first baseman if you play in at first base last year and then his counting stats are a lot lower

Because he only plays a 100 games because he’s a catcher you give him 150 games or you give him the same amount of playing appearan as a first baseman and he’s also not catching every day so his legs aren’t getting Zapped from him he could be a really good offensive first

Baseman again I’m not saying he should be not saying he should be not saying that but if Herrera is good I love Herrera I like that because as a Herrera apologist that’s good for me get Herrera I’m sure wison I mean could be like Joe Mau Buster posy where he’s a primary

First baseman but catches every once in a while like who knows but I I just feel like we paid Wilson contras to be a catcher that’s what the organization said when they brought 17 million for a first baseman though is but like for the organization to go back because the way

I look at the contr signing I think it was a really good signing to get a bat first catcher because that’s a that’s something that most teams don’t have and he’s find defensively if you have Molina calling all the pitches on a pitch com and The Dugout then I don’t really have

Any objections with his defense and if you have contris like as the bat first catcher that’s fine but I feel like the Cardinals signed him kind of expecting him to like turn it around defensively which didn’t make a lot of sense yeah but I don’t think they signed him

Thinking he’d for sure catch all five years because they want they didn’t even want to go five with him they wanted to go four but they couldn’t get the Murphy deal done so they went five with him I again I don’t think their plan is to

Move him off catcher but I don’t think they I don’t think they when they signed him they’re like he’s 100% could be our catcher all five years and now they’re backtracking I think last year was backtracking way earlier but I think people have expected year four year five

You could see him move to a full-time DH or something like that yeah I don’t know I would also like you could still keep Goldie in that scenario too and he could be the DH Wilson’s your first baseman herrera’s your catcher um I think that’d be really

Interesting I would honestly like if the Cardinals had any space I really wanted them to pursue Reese Hoskins I knew it was never going to happen but that would have been so fun for me um and then what you could do if you had Hoskins you

Could bring him in you could trade a guy like s JayZ Hoskins could be um the first baseman of the future you could let Goldie walk and then you could play contras as a DH but whatever that would be a crazy scenario it would have been really fun yeah it’s interesting I just

Think they have enough young bats that don’t know if it’s worth spending money on another one um again there’s some chats in here they’re saying like people are too quick to move off coner again that was just I think something that could explore I think all three of us

Agree The best scenario is catch is Wilson cerus is the catcher I just don’t think you could rule anything out if things go this poorly so um I also would like to keep Paul GID but I think as we talk through the scenario when we look

At what their lineup would look like if they do sell guys off I think it’s really good still and then imagine all the pieces you could get back if you traded gold Schmid and drastic change number three oh as I said that it did not send um drastic change number three

Again if you’re listening audio wise we’ve been put on the screen but jasic change number three would be sell all not all but sell other valuable pieces at the deadline that have limited control left over so that’s Tommy edman who’s a free agent after 2025 that’s Stephen mattz who’s a free agent after

2025 that’s Ryan hel free agent after 2025 that’s Kyle Gibson and Lance Lynn if they give you anything that’s worth being traded for that’s uh any other expiring contracts Andrew kitridge could be someone that could fetch them some value that deadline giovan gyos could be someone yeah again this scenario is kind

Of like last year you trade away the guys you’re about to be free agents because let’s get some prospects in return and look how that turned out they got some really good value back yeah it worked really well and then most of these guys like you look at edman you

Have win you have Gorman Donovan you have Victor Scott you don’t need Edmond anymore especially if you’re out of it um Stephen matz again you’ve got arms coming through he’s valuable but he’s probably more valuable as a trade ship if you’re not contending Ryan Hesley that’s a weird one but like two straight

Years of having an elite closer on a terrible team that’s not necessarily wise usage of your Bullpen so you you cash in on the asset G vanay goes as a club option for 2025 so a contender can take him see how he does and exercise the option for like six and a half

Million if they want to keep him which is a bargain for relever um again all these other names Kyle Gibson if he’s any good could get traded for lowlevel prospects like I think you would see a big sell again what do you guys think I think that makes perfect sense

Um Tommy Edmond’s a guy that I mean half of these guys we were already talking about trading potentially this offseason so I mean I feel like if we’re not going to use them at all um towards the second half of the season I could see most if

Not all of them um going and just giving giving some of the younger guys a chance to to get playing time but seems like seems very reasonable to me I think yeah I think it’s mostly the way the Cardinals handled the last deadline and I think they did a great job at that

Deadline from the very when that happened I was calling it a mo master class and it seems more and more apparent that Mo Master classed it at the deadline he was great um the deals have been fantastic the Cardinals acquired multiple top hundred prospects at one deadline a bunch of guys with

High ceilings too Zack Showalter he could be a big mover in the next couple years so it was it was really well done by them and I would expect them to treat this the same way obviously these guys have more control than the guys they sold off in the first place um but

That’s just because there’s not really anybody on an expiring deal right now so you know it’s probably what they’d have to do yeah and again this is all relative it’s interesting we don’t really know and it’s it’s really not worth the speculating destinations or returns because it’s like who who knows what

People who wants tomm and in July and what they would trade for him so like I you’re not going to see at the end of this they have ex Prospect from the Giants like we’re not going to predict that kind of stuff today but I do think

You to keep this in the back of your mind as if they do trade gold Schmid if they do trade Edmond mats tsle if they do potentially trade other guys later you’re going to expect an influx of talent to the organization and they have the number seven overall pick in the

Draft this year and again in this scenario they do bad they have another top 10 pick the farman this farm system gets really interesting really quick so there’s it’s I’m definitely not talking myself into this I do not like this scenario but it’s yeah it’s not as Doom

And Gloom it’s Doom and Gloom 2024 that’s for sure but it’s not as Doom and Gloom like 2025 and later as I would have thought it would be so anyways it’s interesting so any any other thoughts with that or we want to keep it moving I mean yeah I just think uh I

Would I would be if if this happens I’d probably be okay with it I think I’d be rooting for the same thing that I was last year and the Cardinals would get better in the future so it’s probably worth it but it would really stink I

Just would hate to see Hesley walk out the door because I think the whole time I’ve been watching the Cardinals I’ve watched some really good relievers come through St Louis I’ve watched great individual Seasons Trevor Rosenthal was fantastic for a while suan o had a great

Year uh SEC what’ you say please come back yeah I wish please come back Trevor um but seagrist and mayus that was a great Bullpen that they formed um but Ryan Helly I do think has the best stuff and is the most dominant reliever I’ve

Seen come through St Louis so I would be really sad to see him leave interesting knows Hy will be 30 in July so by the time he hits free agency he’ll be 3 won again he he’s got the stuff to keep being good but yeah relievers are so

Hard to predict I know I know if they were contending it’s a no-brainer but yeah yeah and that’s the thing if you’re not contending it is it is what it is but I would it’d be really hard to just see him leave because we haven’t had a

Guy like 2022 Hesley the whole time I’ve been watching this team that was special what he did yeah and I he’s totally capable of doing it again yeah um I see some messages in here like who would take over as the closer I think that’s I

Mean look back in 2014 and then 2018 2019 like closers change all the time again there’s been eras where the Cardinals haven’t had a good closer and that’s frustrating but like you for the most part and like also 2024 who cares who your closer is if you are terrible

2025 you have the offseason to identify that guy maybe Tink hens fills that role for a year maybe it’s um Zack Thompson maybe gorger SEO doesn’t work out as a starter and he’s a reliever like re Alex Reyes reunion I wrote about that recently and honestly it’s not as

Bad as as people people think it is no it wouldn’t be he’s really talented pitcher okay here’s the one I think we’re gonna have a lot of discussion about I don’t know what people are going to think again if you’re just joining us thanks for hopping in again if you could

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Change number four I think this is one that’s kind of prompted by the other moves too I don’t think it’s necessarily the Cardinals want to do this fully but maybe they kind of would but I think Nolan n a trade could happen in the off season if things go poorly so I’m gonna

Give a reasonings a little bit could it happen at the deadline sure but I think it gets complicated because it’s a lot of money being moved I think ownership or I think the front office is going to want to thread the needle of not paying that contract

And getting value and maybe you can Strongarm the Dodgers at the deadline or something like that but I mean that’s the other thing Nolan Nado is going to be a to control where he goes so it’s probably the Dodgers unless another team emerges and I mean could it could be

Another team um but then it just it’s like if they’re already training goldm they already training all these other guys it’s a lot of place to be spinning I think and I think they’d want to make it work with arnado if they can so I think they delay to the off season see

If they can make it work his contract’s actually kind of interesting if you look at it it’s 32 35 million 2024 32 million in 2025 drops to 27 million in 2026 and then all the way down to 15 million in 2027 so he’s not like a backloaded terrible contract so I actually think

Teams would like it a little bit more than people think right now but it also depends on how he plays this year is he Nolan arado again or is he the 105 Ops plus guy who misses a lot of games like that guy’s not valuable but regular

Norado is so again if they’re already selling they have noan Gorman they have Brendan Donovan they have Thomas to JC they have Mason win they have the infield already they can free up 30 something million dollars and use that another way again I don’t think this is what the Cardinals would

Want to do but I think it’s possible what do you guys think man I have questions like who’s playing third if you move him I’ve seen people saying Gorman but like is Gorman a capable third baseman at this point there were always concerns that he’d have to move

Off the hot Corner coming up as a prospect just because he’s a little bigger um and his arm has some question marks which is why he’s at second and I think he profiles better I think people have been saying that for a long time that he profiled better either at second

First or honestly in left field is what some people were saying when he was younger um and so I I don’t like him there I don’t like Walker at third we’ve seen him play Third outf exactly he’s an outfielder now uh and those were your third basem of the future before ronado

Besides that maybe Sai at third I’d be okay with that you could see Donovan at third but his arm leaves something to be desired from over there so I don’t like the succession plan if you move on from arnado also my gold Schmid don’t trade TR Legends argument still applies to

Arado I think arado is a third base or Walker is a third baseman but that comment sorry I just don’t think he will ever play Third for the Cardinals but I don’t like trading Legends I think arnado is going to be a Hall of Famer I

Think he’s going to be a cardinal in the Hall of Fame I think that matters but again if it’s the best thing for the organization it’s hard not to make that so I don’t know yeah and also like they moved him off the dirt already and we

Already saw how bad that went trying to make him change positions on the fly they’re not going to make him go back to third base and try that again they’re committed to him as an outfielder and they are for the foreseeable future and if you don’t believe that like you don’t

Believe what they say that which I get it they’ve done weird stuff before but they’re committed to him there they do not see him as first baseman they do not see as third baseman so Jordan Walker is not going to play Third Base unless things like I mean I guess this scenario

Things are all things all bats are off so who knows but he’s their right fielder yeah he’s definitely not playing first base for them by the way um but that’s a different argument we can talk about um but I I I guess that makes sense I feel

Like the only way that Aron would leave is if he asked the team to move him but that doesn’t seem likely to me because he committed to the team and uh to staying long term and he already kind of Str strong armed his way out of Denver

So um I I feel like he has more he has more years on his contract I feel like keeping him is probably the best bet yeah especially if he plays like even if the the season goes terribly wrong I know all the Dodgers sites are going to come

After and and be like oh yeah here’s like 10 Nan AR Auto Trade packages it’s like no it’s it’s probably not going to end up happening I feel like this is the least likely out of all the situations that that we’re talking about today but yeah yeah and I think there’s some good

Comments in the chat too like and Andrew just said it’s he has a no trade clause so he can control where he’s gonna go if he’s gonna leave and it’s probably because he requests it so you’re not going to have a bidding war it’s not like you can take the Orioles offer cuz

He’s not going to go go there um but also unless I would really like to play in Baltimore if I was yeah I just don’t think he’s going to do that I agree he’s not but um but then also the contract he’s getting older who knows how he’s

Gonna play I don’t think you get a ton in return for him anyways you’re mostly freeing up money and getting some back in return so for Nolan Jones oh my gosh but like it probably makes more sense of the Cardinals to keep him if he wants to

Be here but also like he committed to the Cardinals to to be on a winning team and then they had 2023 go down and then if they have 2024 go down like 2023 did again that’s when I think you could potentially see that go off the rails so

That’s kind of number four here I how what do you guys think just percentage real quick what do you How likely do you think it is Nolan arnado requests a trade if 2024 is as bad as 2025 probably like 5% I just don’t see him leaving the organization again

Because I mean yeah he he does want to win and that’s that’s what’s most important to him but I feel like the he and the organization both committed to each other at this point and it feels it feels like it would be like a really really bad falling out for them to have

To move on from him and I know you mentioned the Dodgers but do the Dodgers really need Nolan arado at third base probably like they’re they’re fine as their as is they they just spent a billion dollars don’t I don’t think they want to commit to a third baseman like

That for long term um so the the money is not crazy though it’s it’d be 75 million over four years yeah so it’s really not that bad but um okay let’s look at drastic change number five which is kind of a cop out because I think it’s GNA happen either way but I

Think you could see it like happen quicker and maybe there’s a little bit more control and power given to the next front office but I do think drastic change number five as we front office changes accelerated so again this has been forecasted by John mosx since last spring training and he confirmed it

Again at winter warmup that the plan is after the 2025 season he will no longer most likely no longer be the president of baseball operations anymore so they’re look working on a succession plan whether that’s H Bloom who they brought in this offseason whether that’s Randy Flores whether it’s Michael gers

Remains to be seen But if they’re going to be making these franchise altering decisions like potentially trading arnado like potentially changing a manager like blowing up the roster I don’t think they let Mo make all those decisions and then hand it off to someone else that could make sense like

It’s like here’s a clean slate you work with it so actually that could happen where they kind of pull the whole hey everything’s falling apart let’s not make Heim blooms well that actually would be really smart because Hein Bloom’s first move with Boston they made him trade mookie bats so if Hein Bloom’s

First move with the Cardinals was they made him trade noan orado that would not go over well so maybe it is a whole like we like I I again I don’t think there’s any chance they fire John millac before the end of 2025 I think he gets the ride it

Out but I do think you start to see Hein Bloom Randy Flores or Michael gersch whoever it is start pulling more strings by next off season if things happen but honestly that might happen even if things go well Andrew what do you think I actually feel like it might be

Kind of the opposite um to let Mo kind of reconstruct this roster I think he’s earned himself enough time um but I I just I feel like again if this this season goes poorly it’s not really on Mo and his roster construction it’s it’s on the ownership for not giving him enough

Money to spend because like to get three starting pitchers with with the money that was allotted to the organization this off season you kind of have to go out and get to Gibson ly types which was what happened and then you you go out and get Sunny gray and like you

Can’t go go out and sign that that fourth guy you can’t go out and get Yamamoto or arinola or Blake Snell not that I would want some of those guys necessarily but like it’s just some of the ownership is probably going to have to have to see a change because I I

Can’t imagine that Heim bloom or someone else would would do a better job than Mo and I don’t think the front office would be as inclined to to move off from him because they’ve like they’ve trusted him for so long and I know I’m holding Mo’s water um I got some

Uh but like it it makes it makes sense to keep him around because he’s been responsible for a lot of the success that’s happened and I feel like if this season goes as badly as it did last year then ownership really is going to have

To be like okay how do we how do we put a better product on the field because like could Mo really have gotten a better rotation than than what H than what he did this year with the money that was given so I I really don’t know

I I don’t think think I would have been able to to give you something maybe you go out there and get one of the higher upside but like lower floor pictures on the market like Frankie montos but like if that had gone terribly for them then

The season could go even worse than than Kyle Gibson um giving you like yeah I know Sandy I get it um I know I know well it’s fair it’s hard to know how much of this like what like if if if dwit said this is how much money he has

To spend and they signed Yamoto that would have been the only move they made this entire offer season again I would love Yamamoto but like that’s not a rotation that’s you your rotation in 2024 be Yamamoto Michael is mattz Thompson and mcy RAM like oh my

Gosh like so that’s where I think you bring a good point Andrew it’s like obviously Mo’s made a lot of bad moves but when you talk about like his unwillingness to spend you got look at ownership yeah no I I actually got the water because I hold mo water myself I

Would love I think he’s great play Devil’s Advocate though like people Who oversee the Rays though and like they’ve turned in a winner so you can’t just use I can’t spend money as an argument very true but but the fact that they won’t sign big guys you can’t like you can’t

Blame the ray GM for not signing a big good name that’s ownership but you can blame the ray GM for not contending they name it just didn’t go well for them unfortunately oh nope nope we’re not touching that um sorry S I mean to cat

You off there no you’re good I just I don’t think Mo has made that many terrible moves I think Mo’s good moves get overlooked because people want to complain like the JoJo Romero for edmundo Sosa swap is crazy valuable for the Cardinals right now Romero ended up

As the closer last year and all they had to give away was edmundo Sosa I think Mo made a lot of really good moves I getting clipped by someone and oh my gosh look I I like MOS loock I think he’s done a lot of good for the

Organization I think moso’s one of the better GMS in baseball uh he’s not a GM anymore he’s a poo but still like he’s done a lot of good things for the Cardinals I don’t see why people want to get rid of him so quickly the Cardinals

Have done a lot of winning under him they’ve done very little losing and they’ve done so on a budget that doesn’t match what other teams have been able to spend people that blame Mo for not making the big move honestly I think that for the most part like maybe Mo

Wants to make big trades and dit says no to that too like we have no idea really what’s going on those rooms and maybe he’s not aggressive enough that’s fine there are moves that I wish that they would make I wish that their analytics Department was better I think that’s

Something that really is his fault which is why they want H Bloom he’s not an idiot he’s great move exactly it’s it’s bad has taken this long but they’re trying to fix those issues so and also Brad like he’s bring up Jojo like he’s not saying like hey the you should

Celebrate Mo’s best move in the last few years has been JoJo for Ian it’s like he’s he on the fringes and most of the mes he makes end up being positives abely especially in trades um how about Palos they got Palos for cash from Cleveland Palos turned into a fairly

Productive player down the stretch and then they flip Palos for a reliever that we think’s going to be watch Palos W ALCS MVP this year if basos wins ALCS MVP I’m not blaming Mo for making that move I think a lot of the moves that Mo makes that people criticize him for

Afterwards are moves that I probably would have made had they held it in front of me and said do you want to do this at the time that’s why you’ll never be a in a baseball operation it is exactly but like the Adas Garcia move we’ve talked about that ad nauseum it’s

Like what was he supposed to do you know the AR roara move is a little frustrating but Libor was like widely seen as one of the best pitching prospects in the league and I think a lot of people were really excited to bring him in at the time even though it

Meant a ro Arena was gone that was a really good Cardinals at the time here’s a we can move on pretty soon just because we’ve beat this horse dead before think this is a interesting point from Henderson and Wellman agency the front office has slipped in communication pitching development

Player evaluation the past seven years most had a really good overall tenure but three major step backs step backs are pretty bad and I think I’d mostly agree with that it’s like of course they’ve they’ve made significant steps back and it’s part of the reason he

Wants to move on he’s brought up like at some point being in charge 17 years in an organization like this it’s just it things get stale and you have to move on and so I think his his time running up and he shouldn’t be here past 2025 it’s

It needs to be over but he’s earned enough cach a to set up the team for the future and I think he’s absolutely seems like doing a pretty good job of that because I like having gers Flores and H Bloom is all three options right now like a lot of organizations would kill

To have two or three of those names waiting in the wings again that we’re not and I’m not gonna go full on Mo defense here because I just don’t think it’s worth it but sure um yeah we’ll see so last change that we’ll talk about drastic change number six so if all this

Stuff happens especially I think you start to see a youth movement in 2025 and I should have specified on this that they will not be a rebuild or or like a like they’re not gonna go Houston Astros Chicago Cubs Baltimore Orioles where they blow it all up and bring it all the

Way down to the studs and get the number one overall pick multiple years and try to rebuild like that they’ll be ready to contend or at least be competitive that’s probably a better word like the Reds were last year because they’ll have a lot of young players already in place

Here’s all here’s like a potential lineup if they got rid of Paul Goldman or orado next year and this doesn’t even talk about who they could potentially get in return in trades Brendan Donovan Jordan Walker Lars Newar Wilson ceras Nolan Gorman Ivan Herrera Thomas a JC

Mason wi Victor Scott again is it a top five lineup top 10 lineup in baseball I don’t know but like that’s year three from Donovan walk or Newar and Gorman that’s year or year four of them actually year three from Walker contris again that’s a second year of win second

Year of SJC second year Scott like you’ve got guys developing it’s nine good players that’s nine good players and that’s something a lot of teams can’t say yeah with like legitimately High floors and very high ceilings Y and then you obviously Sunny Gray’s contract goes up like 20 by 15

Million I think next year but you clear off 30 B two million from nor unless they money clear off 23 million or something like that from you have money to spend on pitching or you could add other bats to that lineup I it’s it’s when you look at it’s not like I don’t

Know when other teams blow things up you’re like ew how on Earth is Taylor moer batting third and it’s like yeah because they are trying to be terrible I don’t think the Cardinals would be trying to be terrible I think they’d be selling you as a new young fun young

Core um so what do you guys think about that I think it’d be really stupid for the Cardinal to rebuild I’ll say that it just you count this as a rebuild or a retool a and the reason I think you’re right is because I just want to say like

If the Cardinals did rebuild and this is to all the people who have said they want the team to rebuild if they did do that a full rebuild by the time they’re ready to contend Nolan Gorman and Brendan Donovan would be free agents like it would just make no sense you

Have to you have to line up your window properly as a baseball organization and the Cardinals aren’t stupid like they know that and so that’s why I think you’re right I think they they realize that the clock is going to start ticking on some of these young guys sooner

Rather than later because they’ve been around for a little while now um and so they’re not going to tear it all down which is this is great a youth movement would be really good for the team um obviously I would like to see goldian arado I also think there’s a chance

There’s like a like a half youth movement where you keep goldi and arnado but you see a lot of guys brought up which would be wonderful that’s what I really sure and like in that scenario you can start packaging which they kind of should have been doing already you can start Packaging

Want JC Burson and Carlson to go get something like these are just random names but you can start like sending some of these guys out and getting more in return especially because even if like I think best case worst case scenario here is they’re able to hold on

To Goldie and arado next year and they’re both good but then they trade Edmund matz hle like all those guys and they get assets back but they keep their best players and then they go into 2025 kind of like they tried to do this year but then they actually go make better

Moves I don’t know I think it’s interesting Andrew how does that lineup look like what do you think of a team like this that’s a youth movement oriented yeah it’s a solid lineup I I was looking at some of Jordan Walker’s peripherals this morning because I was writing about him and they’re really

Exciting and I feel like heing third is is perfectly fine with me and he’s goingon to be batting what seventh or eighth this year for this team which is crazy um that that he’s going to be so low in the lineup but um crazy I could

See him like if Paul gmid regresses a little bit I could see him third at some point later this season so probably the right move too yeah and it’s it’s something that that I’m really excited about I’m all on the Jordan Walker hype train now um I wasn’t offseason but I’ve

Just been it have you looked at his uh Zips projections they think they already say he’s going to be the best hitter on the team next year and they his 80th percentile projections are a top 15 hitter in all of baseball for next year like 2024 and I’m excited about Nolan

Gorman I just feel like that lineup is perfectly respectable got you spent some money on some more more pitching um and you’re not committed to Goldman arnado long term assuming we trade arado which I don’t think is going to happen but like youth movement would be fun and I

Feel like we could we could be like the Reds and our our Short Stop will throw harder than their short stop you know so yes and also probably be a better hitter hopefully yeah right and not strike out 35% of the time and like it’s gonna be

Exciting like I feel like that that would be perfectly fine for me yeah I’m with you I think it’s not a perfect comparison but if the Cardinals were to do this you could start to say that they looked a little bit like the Braves did

A few years ago where you bring up a really talented position player core at the same time now if they’re gonna do that I wish that they would operate the way the Braves operate and pay these guys before they get to free agency and lock them in on team Friendly Deals yeah

Which is why I love that Brad brought that up in the chat that was a great comment Brad said will the cards have the Monies to extend these potential free agents yes they need to and they need to do that and they need to lock these guys in because the Braves that

Core is in place for like a decade they don’t have these arbitration just make sure people don’t aggravate this Sandy said like not they are the Braves they’re doing moves like them they are not saying they have aunia and Murphy and I wish we did I wish we did

Last year on baseball today Trevor plof said he’d rather have our lineup than the Braves lineup that’s all I’m saying so it wouldn’t have been the worst take in the world and he’s a neutral Source he’s not connected to he say that Trevor plof like last he said this season I was

Like yeah but but the point is again like the Cardinals have a super talented and super deep core that’s coming up all at the same time we haven’t even said Dylan Carlson’s name yet and we know how talented He Is We haven’t even spoken about Alec burles like there are so many

Guys coming up and there are still more interesting players in the lower miners like Juan bcho the Cardinals have so much position player oh my gosh Chase Davis is gonna be also risky K Rosen risky to extend young players okay no we’re so I’m muting I’m muting uh Andrew

For the time being he gets on timeout for that one um but like you also think like again they’re going to have the number seven pick this year so they could get like Chase Burns in return like from that pick or they could get one of the other intriguing bats or else

And then again this scenario they you can’t I think in the Cardinal position they can’t have a top 10 can pick three years in a row based on the new CBA but they can have two years in a row so they could have like the number three five

Seven pick again get another like they would have a lot of interesting talent coming up on top of whoever they get back in trades to like I guess my final question with this before we kind of wrap up with some Matt Carpenter talk now that you see again this is one

Scenario and who knows it know the Cardinals could go even it could be a terrible season and go even more poorly than what these changes were but like let’s say let’s let’s just assume for a moment Goldie and arado are gone how like is it believe is this future Bleak

Or is it exciting like I’m kind of it’s it’s interesting to me how optimistic I end up getting out it’s almost like you have to you have to bear through like a really hard season again which is awful sus but on the other side of it things

Could be good um but again this is not the ideal scenario the better scenario is having Goldman arado the young Corp still coming up and you’re good but free next year and Rak he’s not coming to St Louis but the important thing here is the Cardinals had a top like three

Farm system a couple years ago because you graduated Jordan Walker Brendan Donovan Nolan Gorman Lars Nar and Dylan Carlson all in a really short span and Ivon Herrera like those are six guys that were all top 100 prospects at some point Donovan not really but like everyone would agree that a year into

His tenure he more valuable if you ranked that a to 20 Prospect or something ab and so you graduate all those guys at once and normally when teams do that their Farm systems get really really bad well guess what the Cardinals have five top 100 prospects again six According to some lists who

Have Chase Davis ranked really highly like this is really impressive you’ve you’ve strung together two high quality Farm eras and they’re both really young and teams just don’t do that two years apart the way the Cardinals just did kudos to Randy Flores kudos to the Player Development which yes was not

Great great between 2016 and 2020 but it’s been really really good since then yeah I think the one flaw you can maybe say about the farm system right now and it depends who you ask is like even if they have top if they have five or six

Top 100 prospects they’re not like Elite prospects like the highest ranked one is in the 40s and it’s a lot of 80s guys and like that’s very valuable you want I mean bringing up five or six above average Major Leaguers would be awesome um but it’s not like they’re the Orioles

A bunch of top end talent and then also a lot of people critique the um depth of the organization where you get past the top 100 guys and it’s kind of a crapshoot from there now midseason end of this season maybe Max Rock rockage and um W Beno like all these different

Guys maybe they raise up and people don’t feel that way anymore but right now A lot of people are kind of like yeah outside of they’re like the six that you can rattle off really quick that it’s like a significant drop in lot high but it but regardless like you said

They just promoted a bunch of stuff like the Braves teams like that that do that they’re usually at the bottom of the rankings yeah yeah so any thoughts on that Andrew yeah it’s it’s super cool to see how how many prospects we have that are really exciting like Victor Scott

Someone that I’m super excited about and um I’m all for the youth movement um I feel like that would be super exciting to um to get a team that’s like really young and cheap like the Braves not the Braves um but similar to the Braves um I

Have to specify that but um yeah yeah I’m excited the Nationals I don’t know about that I don’t know about that but um hey CJ ABS is kind of exciting so yeah the team is kind of a youth movement right now anyways and even if they don’t get veterans it’s kind of a

Youth movement next year from the from the position player Bunch so and again next year I doubt they’re resigning Lynn and Gibson they probably want those young arms to come so they don’t have to pay a guy $12 million to fill Innings they want GPO to take it so I’m really

Excited about the young core and again I feel feel much better about 2025 and 2026 than I do 2024 for the Cardinals but we’ll see so again it’s been the big news this past week so that’s our six talking about six potential changes that can happen if things go off the rails

Next year again varying levels of opinion between the three of us How likely that is but I think we all are hoping for the the season to be a lot better this year um but there was some news over the weekend that’s very polarizing to say the least amongst Cardinal Nation we’re back

Matt Carpenter is back hash the return yeah I’m I’ll go last what do you guys thoughts on it it’s fine I think like it’s a lot it’s people are making way no no no that was just the carpenter stuff no are Trevor Ros and Shelby oh no Shelby’s gone yeah like it’s

Fine okay your mic is now oh is it working better now yeah sorry people are making a really big deal about something that’s just not that big a deal with Matt Carpenter it’s like people are acting as if he suddenly plan a at third base Matt Carpenter is probably even

Starting third allason if he’s on the team the entire season I bet he draws like three starts at third base over under 150 plate appearances for him this year two under I’m smashing the under I would be shocked I think Matt Carpenter if he’s on the team All Season gets into

Like 50 games and most those come as like pinch hitter or like weird defensive replacement thing he’ll probably draw like three starts at first three starts at third five or six starts at DH maybe he’ll play in the corner Outfield at some point he’s fine Insurance he’s a good Clubhouse presence

And he’s won before I see no issue with it again your 26 man rarely plays that much anyway remember how long Taylor moer was on the team on the bench in the first half last year people don’t think about that like April he didn’t play like at all

Yeah Trace Barrera like they They Carried a third and never used him so they have space and it’s not a huge deal and it’s like honestly I know that people are like oh I would rather have burles or I would rather have cayi get the last spot in a perfect world yes but

Those guys aren’t gonna play like if Sai rides the bench that’s a mistake he should be at Triple A getting regular plate appearances y that he’s actually ready for something you don’t want him to just get stale on the bench I mean the guy who was going to fill that role

Is Jose for me which honestly I don’t really care like exactly and he probably wouldn’t play either because edan’s the backup shortstop and they have other people who play second base like for me wasn’t going to play either if the Cardinals had nine players that were all

Locked into one position it’d be a little different but they don’t the Cardinals have guys with tons of Versatility because they value that as an organization there’s almost nobody on the roster besides ronado and goldi that you can point to and say they can’t play another position I mean even even guys

Like Alec burles can play first base the Cardinals have a bunch of guys that can play the middle infield and not only that they can play the middle infield at a pretty high level short center field is really shallow but Corner outfielders left infielders middle infielders like

These guys can play all around and so you don’t need a guy on the bench with a ton of Versatility you just need someone who can be in the clubhouse who’s not like ruining a young player’s development and who’s okay sitting on the bench a lot yeah exactly because

People say like oh have Victor Scott for defense and speed it’s like that is a total waste to have him sitting on the bench and you’re not gonna have Tommy eond sit on the bench I mean like you’re just not like it doesn’t make sense and

So um again if again if I mean people are right if I’m if we’re wrong and K plays a lot they deserve a ton of criticism unless he’s somehow really good absolutely but the way they’re talking about it they consistently are saying he’s a bench bat and even Mosel today

Was on Tom AC and he said we’ll see how spring training goes he wasn’t like Carpenters on the opening day roster he’s like let’s see if he’s good enough to make the roster or at least good enough to be the guy who doesn’t play yeah and that’s all they’re asking for

From him so I think we’re making a m out of a mill gosh whatever I mean and also think about the guys that Cardinals have signed in previous Springs right Taylor modder Corey Dickerson Brad Miller actually was pretty good in St Louis he was really good but when Brad Miller

Came in everyone was like oh who’s this guy like what are we doing and it’s the same thing right like they a guy who’s going to ride the bench because someone has to be the 26th guy and did you want it to be like buddy Kennedy if you did

That’s fine if you’re a buddy Kennedy stand that’s okay you can be upset about this but it’s just not that big a deal all I’m saying is there was this one hitter available that could have signed this off them to have in the B Lucas asked uh

I know he has to be a player to get the Braves money but why not hire him as a coach otherwise you just want leadership that’s fair and I think if he gets hurt or is bad he will probably be DFA and retire and might come on as a coach but

Katie Woo has said this and a couple other people have said it like they’re not like there’s a difference between a player who’s a player in leading and a difference between a coach who’s a leader even if they’re a former player and it’s important to remember Paul

Goldman and Nado both asked for Matt Carpenter to be there they both wanted him so it’s not like the Cardinals are like oh we should jump Matt Carpenter on here all this is right idea like again it was partially their idea too but like Gman orado he things went poorly and all

The leadership fell on our shoulders I think that’s a bigger issue that should be talked about is agree how why can’t other players on this team fill that leadership for that’s fair criticism totally but like again if Matt Carpenter plays a ton and is bad and they keep

Putting him in the lineup which I don’t see oi doing okay you were right and this is crazy what are they doing but assuming he gets up at like a couple at bats a week when they’re in a getaway game or whatever I just don’t see it as an

Issue yeah I just I don’t think it’s that big a deal frankly and I I think honestly like people who are mad about it just want something to be upset about right now um and this is their new thing to latch on to it kind of stinks because

I don’t think it’s that big a deal and there like we’ve said this a number of times there are genuine reasons to be upset with the cardal from genu like like you can be really upset that it took them this this freaking long to figure out that analytics matter

In pitching development y can be really mad you can be really mad with the way that they have handled their 40-man roster over the last few years like some of the guys that have stayed on it for no reason um had for example had badell been selected in the rule five draft

Which was a distinct possibility it would have been a huge mistake not protecting him so the Cardinals have made mistakes in the past and you can criticize them for it but I think this is a stupid thing to criticize them for and you know let’s let’s go waste our

Breath criticizing them for things that actually matter yeah I mean when I saw the carpenter signing I was like oh okay I mean the way this team is going to go is they they had to go out there and get a 26 man whether that’s internally like

Jose fine or if it was like signing Taylor modder last year but like when given the option between a bunch of guys on minor league deals and Matt Carpenter who’s been like with the franchise before from both a business perspective and like a baseball perspective it doesn’t make any sense to go after

Anybody else because like they’re going to they’re probably going to make that back um in Jersey sales within an hour and I mean you’re right like they’re paying him $700,000 like that’s not that many jerseys um and for the for a guy who’s been surrounded by the team for a long time

Like that’s that’s perfect but like I’m I’m not excited about this move it’s not something that gets me going but it’s also not something to be upset about like you just signed a guy who’s never going to play I love this another great comment Henderson and Wellman agency

There are a lot of parallels between karp and Donovan’s careers Donan is supposed to be a growing leader hope they connect well makes a lot of sense um so that’s a great observation with that um a couple other thoughts with that so like we talked about this

Already but like people were like okay who’s the backup infielder the Cardinals have the roster constructed in a very interesting way where they want Mason wi to play almost every day he’s young there’s not a reason for him to sit out 30 Games a year unless he’s bad and

Their offense is good enough they can carry a below average bat at shortstop he’s gonna play almost every day and the days he doesn’t play Tommy emin’s gonna play shortstop and Dylan Carlson or large Nar will play center field and or Victor Scott be fine or Victor Scott

Yeah by that point like and then like when does edman get rest well when keep starting Carlson comes in like they have like 12 guys who can fill all nine spots for an entire season pretty much because like Goldman arado cont need to sit a decent amount but you’ve got Herrera and

Then you’ve got the DH spot and you’ve got guys who can fill in those positions you don’t need like four backup guys who can play all the time or because people have been mad the last few years saying like why isn’t gold Schmid playing every day why isn’t arnado playing every day

Why isn’t so it’s like okay they’re gonna this looks like they’re gonna be playing large Newar every day when he’s healthy and Walker every single day he’s healthy it’s like great they have their best lineup out there almost every day and when the few times a week where they

Sit or like few times every other week they sit okay you’ve got Carlson burlson and Herrera who come in great yeah I don’t problem effective lineup it’s a problem if Carpenter plays all the time and I don’t see that happening no no and and it’s like honestly I think I might

Be more upset actually had the Cardinals gone out and like paid a real backup uh it’s a waste of resources and it’s somebody who would actually have the expectation of playing a lot that would be in in my opinion much worse because then like Matt Carpenter being on the

Bench doesn’t hurt the team if you go out and you get someone uh I don’t know like I I really like the idea of Kevin km defensively but if they’d gone out and gotten him and paid him big money all of a sudden like now you’re carrying

A below average bat way more often one more thing about why didn’t they sign Carpenter uh as a coach or whatever I think it matters that Carpenter still wants to be a player obviously he thinks he’s still got something left in the tank and players do this a lot players

Don’t want to retire like Matt Carpenter loves baseball he doesn’t want to retire he wants to continue to play and I think it’s nice that the Cardinals will give him another shot to play also Carpenter’s two years removed from a really really great stretch with Texas’s

Tripa team and then with the Yankees so obviously he thinks there’s still something of that left some of that magic is left maybe it’s not and maybe it’s terrible and Carpenters off the team in June but there’s a chance that he’s a really valuable bench bat he’s

Got power he’s still left-handed um and it’s going to be really fun to see him at Bush Stadium I think if you’re someone who’s getting worked up over the Cardinals enjoying sentiment ality that’s a waste of your time because sentimentality is fun and every franchise does it every franchise likes

It and also like people point to like they wrote with wayo they modder again again we already talked mod thing but like wayo they had real conversations about removing him from the rotation when they were 20 games out of it like they were about to pull the plug with

How bad it was and I guarantee you if they were in contention they weren’t going to let them go for 200 they were going to pull him and it was like I’m sorry but we’re trying to win yeah I I think it’s even less so with car or even

More more so with carp like he might not make the opening day roster if it’s just clear and spring training he’s just bad like so I just again downside i’ see like very little downside unless they do something crazy like playing him every day when he’s bad like sure if that

Happens I guarantee the new news podcast will not be like well they should be trotting out 150 hitting Matt Carpenter every day because it’s nostalgic I mean they were sitting Alber pools against righties like back yeah they stopped playing him like he was not good in the

First half and he wasn’t getting playing time and and he was about to retire and then he gave it one more shot he said he it was so awesome so they literally sat Albert Pooles I don’t think it’s gonna be a problem yeah oh well agree more and it’s

Been said in here he’s been working with Matt holiday this offseason so who knows maybe he’s good if he’s not whatever they wasted $700,000 and I hope Carpenter’s really good I really do I hope car hits like 15 homers in 200 of bats this year that’d

Be really fun and we would enjoy that and I would wear my Carpenter shy to a game and I would be really happy about it mine doesn’t fit me anymore it’s from like Middle School unfortun yeah back in the 2013 Matt Carpenter days I can still wear shirts from middle school it’s

Pretty bad I’m like the same height that I was Brad Brad earlier was like are you like six how tall are you no I’m like 61 and a half or 6’2 just because Andrew well I’m short and Andrew is not tall so that’s why Sandy looked like a giant

I was so tall in middle school and I haven’t grown really since then so it’s tough yeah oh man what a time well I think that pretty much covers everything we want to cover from this episode again if breaking news happens all that will’ll be on it um on Wednesday we’re

Talking with um Robbie who’s a big uh MLB YouTuber you might have seen his YouTube channel before he kind of breaks down big offseason news things are going on but he’s also a Big Red Sox guy and so we’re going to have him come on and talk about Boston talk about the he

Bloom days and so like what are his thoughts on Bloom what he could bring to the Cardinals and he’s also going to talk about these relievers and different moves that the Cardinals have gotten from the Red Sox what does he think about Fernandez and um why BL his name right

Now gosh the other Nick Rober Robertson oh yeah yeah yeah um and then also just the Red Sox situation Tyler O’Neal it would be I think a really fun and different conversation than usual but should give us some insight on Pine Bloom who’s a big name that we’re

Talking about right now in the Cardinal Nation so any any other things you guys want to talk or address before we hop off I think we’re good okay well as always like And subscribe if you could share this too that’s always super helpful but subscriptions are super

Helpful helps people know the podcast is out there and we just want to continue to bring great card Cardinal’s content all year long again we’ve got big plans for 2024 and we’re really excited about what’s going on so thanks for you all of you who were watching Cardinal baseball

On the new news podcast during NFL Playoff games and hanging out with with us and we’re really excited spring training is right around the corner and should be a lot of fun stuff coming so as always hop in the chat um when we’re live on Wednesday and we’d love to see

You guys next time so see You