Jordan Spieth is one of the great American golfers of all time. His resume is extensive; he is: A 2-time US Junior Amateur Champion, a NCAA National Champion, a 3-time Major Champion (The Masters, The US Open and The Open), a former PGA TOUR Rookie of the Year (2013), the PGA TOUR and PGA Player of the Year (2015), the FedEx Cup Champion (2015), a Vardon Trophy winner (2015, 2017) and he has been ranked #1 in the Official World Golf Ranking.
Spieth has 13 PGA TOUR victories (and counting) and his career has seen the highest of highs and also some heartbreaking lows. Jordan joins Mark Immelman to talk about his career in the game, highs, lows, tournament victories and defeats, and his approach to the golfswing, the short-game and scoring.
He addresses his appearances as an amateur in the Byron Nelson tournament, his first PGA TOUR win at The John Deere Classic, his career at The Masters including the 2015 win and the 2016 defeat. Jordan also revisits the victory at the 2017 Open Championship and his mindset to chase down Matt Kuchar.
Spieth also talks about his slump in form, injury, and how he managed the journey back to the winner’s circle at the 2021 Valero Texas Open.
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ABOUT ON THE MARK: Mark’s knowledge, insight and experience have made him a sought-after mind on the PGA and European tours. Through his career, he has taught and/or consulted to various Major Champions, PGA Tour winners and global Tour professionals such as: Larry Mize, Loren Roberts, Louis Oosthuizen, Patton Kizzire, Trevor Immelman, Charl Schwartzel, Scott Brown, Andrew Georgiou and Rourke can der Spuy. His golf teaching experience and anecdotal storytelling broadcasting style makes him a popular host for golf outings.
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There’s certain conversations that I really look forward to and this one with Jordan spe was one of those Jordan thanks for joining me welcome to the show how are you I’m doing great you doing all right I’m doing fine wintry looking forward to Tory Pines but just
Great to have you on so I know you’re dad right now and there’s lots of dad stuff going on so so so let’s get to it shall we you need no introduction but I want to take you back to the start uh young kid growing up in
Dallas um Lefty right how do you how do you get into golf first off because you were quite the athlete as a kid as well yeah both my parents played uh um division one college sports my mom played basketball and my dad played baseball so I have a brother that’s 18
Months younger than me and we just grew up with with uh with a ball in our hand so we were uh playing basketball baseball soccer football uh golf ended up being um something that I took up around when my brother was born as just a kind of an
Activity to keep myself and now now having a two-year-old I understand what my parents meant when they said you know we just needed a little bit of time to ourselves so um just like Sammy has a couple golf clubs out in the backyard I guess that was how I got started in it
And then um you know it baseball was kind of my love growing up um and uh I played baseball and basketball in into the till till High School um and it wasn’t until I was really 13 years old 12 13 years old where I um fell in love with golf loved
Working at it did more than just a tournament Here There and started actually wanting to go to the course every single day um that that begs a question because you’re a dad and now too and you referenced Sammy in the golf clubs I’m a parent I have two daughters
Um both athletic the one showing some proficiency for golf but she got started later um that moment was there a moment where you’re like okay golf is kind of for me can can you think back and re recall revisit that yeah I think maybe
When I said 13 I I had broken 70 in a tournament when I was 11 that was the first time I broke 70 in a tournament and so that that’s kind of hard not to think maybe we got some potential here at that stage but I was um I wasn’t a
Top ranked in the state or until I was probably 13 or or 14 so you know there were players that were better that started at 6 seven years old and and that’s the way I see a lot of a lot of it going now I mean I go out to the
Course and there’s six seven year olds just hitting balls on the Range and they’re having fun and they’re they’re being kids but it’s like man I don’t remember doing that at that age but um probably trying to be like Jordan spa or just um yeah whoever their whoever their guy is now um
But I think uh you know I could probably pinpoint that but I was still kind of just playing you know ntpga Junior events here it was I wasn’t tested against anybody outside you know the Texas or Oklahoma essentially and and certainly nationally until I was um
Really 13 in the agga you know the American Junior Golf Association opens you up into um being competitive against uh Juniors from from really around the world but especially around the country so I would say you know I sh I played in the starburst junr um which is a a
Really popular Texas Junior Golf Tournament in Waco every year and when I was 12 I played in my age group and I shot 63 finishing eight under on the last eight and so I was 12 and um at that time I was like wow this is actually pretty fun so maybe I should
Keep doing this um and uh so between kind of that it was some time in that it’s hard to think back that far now that’s 18 years ago but uh I just remember what was so cool about it was I felt like I went to the
Course I felt like I was getting better I was having fun doing so we were playing you know hit I was dropped off at 8:30 in the morning I would hit some balls we’d go play 18 then we’d go play some basketball we’d go play some
Football in the parking lot we’d go back eat lunch hit some more balls go play again I was like man I just I’m having a lot of fun these days I got a good group of Juniors I’m with and um starting to uh really enjoy having the ball in my hand
You know I think I’ve spoken to that before is like when I played other sports somebody was better on the team and they always got the last shot okay and in golf it was all on you and that’s what I loved that’s awesome um I want to
Ask you this too because you talk about the other sports it seems to me and obviously this is true on the PGA tour that even though kids are coming up in the game it’s you got to be athletic first first I I’m assuming you would concur because that’s who you are huh I
Believe so I think that that’s how the sports gotten more competitive now even in the tenure I’ve had um it seems like there’s more athletes choosing golf than there were even 12 years ago um and especially 20 25 years ago from what I hear so I mean it would be what I would
Advise um but that’s just because that’s the way I came up and I enjoyed doing that but um you know tiger didn’t do that and he’s done fine for himself so it’s a little you know it’s kind of There’s No One Way um but for me I
Just thought it was a better way to just become an allaround individual was to was um Sport and being part of a team and and then finding out what you love to do I wasn’t pressured um to do anything really I was just given opportunities and to find out what I
Love to do and it happened to be golf that’s awesome you know I’d want to ask you what it was like to to parent Jordan spe but I’m not going to do that because I feel like I know the answer because you know my interactions with you and
I’m digressing a little bit here the one thing if people had to say to me describe Jordan I’d be like he is true to himself he knows where he’s going and when I see you and I’m hearing this from you now when I see you in competition
And you get a sniff of the lead I can see the inner athletes you know the competitor come out um am I correct in my assessment here yeah I think um you that’s what excites me at the same time sometimes maybe too much excitement and I it just can I can
Get away from standard stuff and create um you know I’ve I’ve had plenty scenarios where I’ve made it look easy and I’ve had some where I’ve made it look really hard so but that’s golf but um but yeah I think it’s just I just start getting so giddy when I get
Towards the top because of your confidence is there and all of a sudden you’re now competing and you know it’s a four-day stint and um you’re not always competing from the get-go so if you start working your way up there Friday Saturday you know it’s all of a sudden
Sunday comes and you’re you know you just prepared the whole week just to try to get to that position and it doesn’t happen every week and um so it can be very very exciting look obviously you were decorated amateur um two-time us Junior Champion Alla Tiger Woods um but
Then as a 16 year old and I was just getting into broadcast back then um you get invited to play on the byon Nelson and uh you 16 you know fresh high schooler buddy on the bag they’re cading and you’re inside the top 10 Saturday afternoon and their TV cameras all over
You and uh I I just want to know yes Jordan spe 16year old obviously talented in his Hometown Back Garden there’s got to be pressure I mean talk to me about the feelings of going through all that stuff man I think I I think I remember the pressure being
More um that my first tea shot there was a there was big rain delay I was teeing off on number 10 in the afternoon and I don’t think I teed off till around 5:00 pm because of a you know I was one of the last groups um being on a sponsor
Exemption and um sorry my dog’s here um very cool it’s adding it’s adding to the conversation yeah yeah yeah uh but um I remember teeing off on that 10th hole and being just super nervous to get going but I think by the time Saturday
Hit I was just uh I was just excited I didn’t feel like it was anywhere I shouldn’t be um I was wondering kind of how I was going to get started and that was really it once I was gonna kind of get through the first couple holes
Really um you know two and three are meaty part of that golf course and I was kind of thinking of it like once you get through here two and three you know then there’s a lot of opportunities and and I settled in and um uh it was certainly
More than I probably thought I was going to get out of it but um I guess I wouldn’t say I was surprised but I would say uh you know I guess I I think I I was like man okay I really can do this that
Was kind of the first moment where I was like I not only do I feel like I can get better and and play out here considering that was kind of the only chance I had at the time I actually I wanted to right and that that that’s what it comes down
To like I didn’t feel like it was something that would burn me out I felt like this is um I feel like I can and I feel like I want to and and that’s a that’s a big driving force it’s a it’s confident but
Then it’s it’s also um makes me I mean I probably I guarantee you that next day I was out practicing again because it was so exciting and I was 16 so who needs recovery yeah well look you signal to the rest of the world who you were and
You introduced yourself and you kind of it was a preamble Harbinger to what was coming um I’m going to fast forward past Texas you go there for a year win a National Championship turn pro early um and you make a splash right away You’re contending um kind of doing what
Everyone is expecting you to inside I’m wanting to ask you about expectations but first I want to go to the John Deere classic um you’ve been in contention you’ve been in the mix some you obviously used to it to a certain extent even in your opening season but then
That bunker shot in that in that uh sudden death playoff look the 18th hole for the folks who don’t know it is riddled with disaster down the left hand side there’s water the bunker on the right it’s not the happiest spot in the world and yes Jordan spe against Zack
Johnson and I think David Hearn was the other one in the playoff and you hold a freaking bunker shot to win okay and that wasn’t very easy at all but to me as I watched the footage back I was like it’s like you were made for that shot
Revisit that with me please because to me it’s one of the great you had countless great shots but that one was incredible as a young man coming out yeah I think um you know I was as you mentioned I had contended quite a bit so I didn’t feel like it was want the
Reason I say that is I found myself in the bunker on the 18th hole still oh somewhere around one back or maybe two back I was four three or four groups in front of the last group um Daniel summer Hayes was leading and um uh going into the final round and
Then Zach was there and David Hearn and so I found myself in that bunker and and honestly there was just no point in making in trying to to make par because I knew that if I make par I have no chance of winning winning is all that
Mattered to me at that point considering you know I’d already gotten I’d already played well the only way to actually get full status away from my temporary membership was to win and so I guess when I went into it you know it came off hotter than I maybe intended to um and
So it took a bounce up the stick and certainly fortunate because I’ve had a number of shots you know bounce up off flag sticks and with that kind of spin they they actually end up further away than they may have been or you know if they don’t doesn’t hit the stick it’s
Heading towards you know right towards that Creek um you know it wasn’t a miss it wasn’t um like bladed by any means but it certainly flew further than I wanted to was trying to hit kind of a one hop stop roll in and um but the
Point was is it was going to get to the hole because there was no reason for it not to and um I luckily approached that um most of my shots I hit around the greens that way you know it doesn’t doesn’t have a chance to get stopped or
Go in if it doesn’t get there um and uh so certainly pretty lucky to get into the playoff but uh but it was it was a cool shot and then I got lucky um you know not only did that go in Zack Johnson bogie the
72nd hole um we went to a five hole playoff David Hearn had a a look inside five feet to win um and the shot I hit a shot in uh the playoff hole that I ended up winning on number eight 18 our fifth hole I punched a seven iron out of the
Trees and kind of cut it off the water and ran it up to the back of the green when the other two were in trouble and what’s really interesting is a lot of the focus ends up on the bunker shot of that tournament yeah and like um but to
Me it was like I remember hitting that punch seven iron and now I’m thinking why why was that such an easy shot for me then like I I’m sitting here going man like all right just a little punch seven iron cut off the bunker or cut off
The water split the water in the bunker and running up the green like I can see the shot and it was just like oh yeah I’ll just hit the punch cut seven iron up the up the green and I’m sitting here now like geez that’s hard why was that
The only thing I was thinking there and how do I get to where I can just think that way again um and it’s just kind of funny it was just it was so simple it was just h a normal punch shot yeah look yes obviously you hold in in regulation
Um and then one after the extended playoff um that shut was incredible I I do want to go back to the bunker shot though because you’re in a bunker there’s water on the other side green tilts away from you and you made a statement that I don’t want people to
Lose in the wash where you’re like I’ve always approached short game shots where if the ball doesn’t get to the hole it’s not going in which is kind of people should just pause and really ease that into their soul you’re in there in the over the bunker I want to talk about cuz
I get the sense that you almost will balls into the hole at times but there a bunker shot I’m expecting you had to hit pretty close to it so there was an element of freedom and aggression to the thing I guess is what I’m saying am I
Right yeah no that’s and that’s kind of what I was alluding to is there’s nothing but freedom and aggression into the shot given whether it’s like I just mentioned about the seven iron I just that’s just the way I was thinking or you know the idea that you know I didn’t
Have to finish you know say in Tampa earlier that year I knew that if I finished with a birdie par on the last two I get status so I get unlimited exemptions so it’s like a you’re trying to hit a certain number versus I’m trying to win if I don’t win then I
Don’t care um and that was kind of where once I had that status the only thing that could benefit me in the last two two three weeks of the season was if I won a golf tournament other than that there was almost no benefit um to my
Status or or what the potential could have been through the rest of the Fall so um I wasn’t thinking about that actively over the bunker shop but that that went in to how I was playing every single round at the time got you I want to stay with a short game some because
I’ve described you when you first came out I called you the American sevy because as a young man I was lucky enough to get to watch sevy from close um and that is the ultimate compliment I can give someone because you seem like a magician with a wedge in your hand um
And I want to say to so many aspirant golfers I’m like go and watch spe cuz you are creative you’re not handcuffed by technique it doesn’t look like it looks like a guy with a club and a ball and you just trying to spin this thing
Into the hole talk to us a little bit about about how you approach your craft please yeah I think um you know I part of it is just where I had to learn the short game and I’ll explain that in a second and the other part is being advised by my instructor Cameron
McCormack that’s like chipping is not the full swing at all you’re doing completely different motions you’re changing full planes of motion depending on contact certain lies how quickly you need to stop it um where the ball’s located bunker rough Fairway like they all have completely different um could have completely different motions
Depending on what’s presented so the idea that you would practice something you’re doing on your full swing is um is not correct unless it’s a basic shot from 30 plus yards that you’d hit like you’d hit a full shot and we just don’t experience that very much around the
Greens um something that greens elevated well that changes it um and so growing up at Brook Haven Country Club which has a a great facility now um but when I was learning the game their short game area um consisted of one bunker some rough and a very very firm fast small sloping
AST Turf green so it was Turf and um and so I had to learn how to spin the ball incredibly just to keep it on this chiping green as well as learning how to hit shots really high out of the rough being okay with putting speed under the
Ball with a lot of Loft um just ways to keep it honestly it was just very hard to keep it on the green that I that I learned how to practice on and so I learned how to play bunker shots hitting very close to the ball and that’s how I
Still do it to this day I have almost no balance on my 60 degree wedge and it doesn’t affect me if I if I’m in a bunker at the Open Championship or if I’m at Colonial which are the two extremes of sand traps that we experience one’s incredibly firm and the
Other you know the ball’s never going to sit up in in the open but regardless if I’m if I’m controlling my entry point and my entry point remains consistent now I have distance control regardless of the sand and then that very little bounce allows me um to make up for uh
Some shots that would be more difficult um because the one thing that’s a challenge with very very low balance is if you get you know kakuya or the ball’s sitting up really high because it can dig or very um thick bunkers you know people don’t like low balance but if I
If I’m the way I chip which is more kind of cover cut um on a basic chip and the way that I hit bunker shots which is control your entry point very close to the ball it kind of doesn’t matter then and so it creates an advantage of having
The same wedge everywhere I play and then as I move to um some very difficult shots sometimes into the green Bermuda stuff like that that that very low balance wedge um gives me an advantage over guys who aren’t playing it you that that speaks to what I was saying were
You just so true to who you are because you know at one stage when I was teaching full-time on tour I heard if I heard the term expose the bounce once more I would have vomited because everyone was trying to but then I see you show up there with a weaker grip
You’re not afraid of turning that front edge of that wedge down whatsoever and like I say you’re Symphony around the greens yeah I think um you know the it’s it’s it’s incredibly hard for me to give any advice to anybody um in a proam Because unless you go do it and just get
Comfortable doing it and what I mean by doing is is that cover cut motion that you’re going to hit ball first and you’re going to take a divot even if it’s a 10 yard shot you’re going to go ahead and be aggressive into the ball a
Lot of times what we experience is we can’t get height on a chip out of the Fairway it’s just not going to be possible unless you expose the balce and hit it fat on purpose and then it’s just very hard to actually control how much Turf you’re getting and and how far the
Bar ball is actually going to fly so I try to make up for it with spin by hitting ball first and being very aggressive into the ground yeah um and The Cutting motion allows me to um you know make sure that that that swing direction is significantly to the left
Making it a little bit easier to make sure I’m hitting ball first I can open the face up the club still sits with very little bounce behind the ball that that either can allow for a little more height a little more spin or both so I
Have that option um but there’s a lot of times that you just have to accept the fact that you can’t lift it up in the air when you’re chipping yeah and um and once you get comfortable being more aggressive than you want to be into the
Ball really from any any surface any lie um it it actually makes chipping quite a bit easier but it’s you have to almost get uncomfortable to to to be comfortable if that makes sense you just got to do it enough to start to believe in it yeah there’s another statement I
Want folks to clip and replay get uncom get comfortably comfortable being uncomfortable um let’s move along um 2015 is obviously a banner season for you um hold on one second one second sorry daughters parenting it’s a game changer isn’t it yeah she’ll uh so for the so for the
Audio listeners if you tune on to YouTube you can see J he very cute Labrador looks like black one yeah yeah yeah and now he’s doing parenting stuff um so 15 is just one of those years and you had run close in the Masters the year
Before um and then you get there to Augusta National you had played well leading in and you just Blitz the field you break the scoring record after three rounds you kind of caner to the win my question to you is this Jordan is that the best golf you’ve ever
Played were you kind of in that zone that week over there you you know I think that month was some of the best golf I’ve ever played I finished second in San Antonio followed it up with a loss in a playoff in Houston and then one at
Augusta um it was just a continuation of tightening things up from what was already really good the previous two weeks and regardless of where I was going to be at and I just tried to use the year before as a learning tool um you know I needed a little more patience
On Sunday I needed to hold a few more putts you know I had a few looks against Bubba that could have put pressure on in 14 that I missed on the par fives um and I thought you know keep your head down because just because you have the lead
Through seven or eight holes on Sunday at Augusta doesn’t mean you won’t lose it by number 10 which is what happened in 14 and um and so that just kind of kept me I think very patient that year to to continue it into the back nine to
Not even think that anything that that that not look ahead until I got to really 17 green um 16 I made a big putt to avoid a two shot swing with Justin Rose and um I think the best golf I ever played was actually Tiger’s event about six
Monthsi five months prior at was worth wasn’t it that was at eorth that’s probably the best single week of golf I’ve ever played I I had the ball on a string um I was putting great uh you know between there and then I you know in Hawaii um in
Early 2016 those are the two where I separated from a field and didn’t think didn’t think twice about it but hard to hard to put you know a stretch of a month any better than that kind of spring of 15 talk to me about please um well the challenge of playing Augusta
National is there’s not a level spot on the golf course except for the team grounds and I’ve heard you say that it sort of awakens the the the creative streak inside because it makes you see shots and hit shots and not necessarily play golf swing some so so talk to The
Listener and me but just about you know seeing the wide line because that’s kind of one of the keys around there whereas you got to allow gravity to do its thing um that to me is a it’s a skill but I think it can be learned what say you I
Think that it’s something that is a fault of mine at other places a lot of times I pick too much curve okay and the lies are so flat that in order to create a spin axis that gets the ball all the way to the hole it’s it’s something I’m
Not necessarily doing on the driving range when I’m hitting tighter curves but at austa it it does it for you so you actually play a tighter curve off lining up wider and the hill will throw it more you got to fight the hill on a certain shot you know on number nine you
Got to hook it off the ball below your feet um it it it that’s what I mean when I say the feel aspect comes out um it actually kind of plays into what is sometimes a weakness of mine and creates it into a strength there just like I
Feel like a caloa and these are all the approach shots right shots around the green you just need more imagination feel putting all that but in the approach shot specifically um I think that it takes what’s sometimes a weakness of mind and turns it into a strength whereas some people might have
A lot harder time lining up so wide um and trusting that a hill or wind or whatever will throw a ball back um it’s why I think the Open Championship too even though you have more flat lies you the wind plays such a role um I like
Seeing big curves I don’t create big curves that often and so um I think it does play into a strength in that regard awesome insights um look I must I’d be remiss if I didn’t ask you about 16 but not about the misstep over the final
Nine holes at Augusta to me golf is the ultimate game of recovery and Jordan spe showed me who Jordan spe was there by what you did at Colonial just a little while after that where you birdie six of your last nine holes I think it was to
Come back and win after arguably I guess you can talk to it more than me suffering what was a heartwrenching loss at Augusta let’s talk about the bounceback please because there’s something to be learn there yeah sure I think um you know I thought it was important um I was playing playing
Pretty well at the time I was hitting it really poorly in the spring summer in 16 um but I thought it was obviously very important just mentally to try to get back in the winter Circle as soon as possible especially you know trying to close something out and you know I had a
Bit of Fortune I chipped in um but I had a couple nice birdies as well on that back nine as you mentioned at Colonial and got a win at one of my favorite places in the hometown event um and to me that felt pretty um pretty special I
Think you know I needed to kind of get over the hump in a regular event and close one out after just to just to kind of not even for myself but just to kind of get everything else off my back yeah and then I thought the opening 17
Was one where I did it in a major where you know um I kind of kind of forc my way into the stack the cards being against me again on the back nine with some mistakes and then um was able to have space and time to turn it around
And that helped because I I felt like um you know I went ahead and and closed like truly closed out a major there um more so than I had in the previous two that I had won so um I think combination of colonial along with the open the next
Year was was nice um at least mentally just to you know I’d won a few tournaments in between as well but um the open was just to win the open in general but the way it happened and and I think you know to to just kind of continue to believe in myself as
Somebody who can close and throw some fireworks at the end and stuff um you know I think that that helped a lot I think you say something that’s so important there that I want to camp on a little bit um obviously you kept the train rolling there and you had won the
Masters you had won the US Open at Chambers Bay this was 17 in the open and you know it was nip and Tuck there with coocha coming down the stretch and then you had that wide t- ball on 13 and everyone will talk about you know a
Couple holes later where you pointed at Michael and you’re like go get that and that was kind of the meme moment but to me I remember watching the footage I was back home here in the states and yes you and G with a presence of mind to take
Your time there where the ball was well out of position and you figured out something where to me so many golfers watching this who want to get better it’s like getting comfortable when you’re uncomfortable right you in the ultimate of uncomfortable there but you have the presence of mind and the and
You take the time enough to make the smart decision and you get out there on 13 with what was almost a miraculous save in many ways so talk about that yeah the um I hit it over there and uh it was kind of in a bush I knew I
Couldn’t play it and so I’m just kind of running through my head what are my options you know I go back to the te um I get to club links or I take line of sight with the pin I’m looking in line of sight with the pin I’m like all these
Trailers are there so I with a rules official you know the whole thing took too long um but in my head I was operating quickly it was just trying to figure out you know I had to take a drop take a drop from the drop make sure that
So I just I said is the is the are the trailers or is the um you know the scenarios ran through my head pretty quickly actually like all right well I’ll take line of sight because if the driving range isn’t out of bounds and I
Can drop it over there I have a clean lie and wherever I hit that next shot’s better than rtin I’m gonna be within 30 40 yards of the green regardless where that is I can hit that one closer than than trying to hit um you know two shots
Up there on a on a one of the more difficult holes that day um and so I hit a three iron and I kind of missed my line a little my reaction was like oh no I just kind of mish hited a smidge to the right so I knew it wasn’t going to
Have enough distance had no idea exactly where it was going to end up and the save was really nice and I I actually was walking to the next hole and um you know I’d lost the lead with five to go and I remember going into the um to use
The restroom in the portalet right and I remember actually being in there and being like all right look you lost it but you’re only down one there’s nobody else around it’s just him that you’re playing against and you can beat him by Two Shots on these last five holes like
I when we talk about some of my best stretches of golf I’ve ever played the summer of 2017 was was a ridiculous stretch of golf for me I mean I was finishing first or second taking three weeks off winning the open finishing another you know losing the playoff
Finishing second like there was maybe six or seven events where five or six of those I finished second or first in a row um so in other words my confidence level in my game was not thrown off by one t-shot that I hit um it was I’m
Playing really well it started to rain a little I made a mistake not committing to a shot cut a little water ball this is what I’m telling myself in my head whether it’s true or not doesn’t matter um let’s step up and hit a good iron
Shot and just try to have a putt to win each hole and I remember thinking about that all while I’m in there and I stepped out of there and I probably hit the best shot I would say that I’ve ever hit um to this day it was the six iron I
Hit on 14 yeah and um once I won that hole I said I got this guy and and um and the rest history in a way sort of a way it’s like you Manifest Destiny um and that’s what’s cool about it because again if folks who’ve ever watch Jordan
Play you get this look about you and and it’s almost to me like the Tom Brady sets in and uh and and then you just go about doing what you’re going to do and you’re not ahead you’re not behind you just right where you are and and that’s
So crucial to good golf yeah I think just having experienced a lot of stuff by that time everything it experience helps you kind of create those perspectives and I just you know stuff’s going to happen stuff can happen it can be clean but when stuff happens what’s
The point in um dragging it on if you still have more holes left right so um the 16 Masters I got to 13t and smiley caufman will tell you I asked him he made a two and I made a seven and we got
To the tea and I said whose tea is it to Smiley you know I got to 13t and he was in shock he had no idea what to even say and my point you know point in even saying that is like look I mean it it
Happened um you know I I have six holes left or six holes left I can I can play him a few under and have a chance to win I think I played him two maybe um and I did have a chance to win and uh so even
It wasn’t just at the open there I had experienced stuff like that where it’s like look stuff happened um what are you g to do uh and if you still have golf left then you may as well be trying to hit every shot where you’re looking at
Every put we you’re looking just like I just tried to before it didn’t work out but um doesn’t mean it won’t now uh so I mean you just got to I I mean simplifying things to where if you can this was before you know I struggled for
A couple years and I and I actually really learned what it was like to get out of um kind of ego ego driven um Golf and into kind of Mastery driven Golf and what that meant how to define that and how to work that into my life and golf and um but I
Felt like I the bigger the moment the bigger kind of the the potential to go one way I I I kind of was able to always calm myself down the uncomfortable get more comfortable in a weird way um and uh you know it worked once it didn’t
Work another time but um and I’ve had plenty of times in between where it you know and it’ll it’s just the game so you know you can sometimes I’ll play really really well and on the back end of something and it doesn’t work out sometimes I’ll play a little less that’s
Good and and I win it just depends on how the other guys around you did yeah I love that ego driven versus Mastery driven okay you you touched on the slump um I think there lessons to be learned there because through it all you awfully poised with the media all the time
Because kind of you’re you’re one of the stars of the tour and then you wouldn’t play well and the first thing you get is a microphone in front of your face from guys like me um because we got our jobs to do but through it all you were poised
You were awfully loyal you stuck to your guns and I just watch the guy sort of almost chart his course back to where he had to be um so I want you to advise please the the viewer and The Listener because you know when we start slumping most people start clutching at straws
And just trying any old thing and you almost one almost sells oneself out at times but again you remain true to who you are so I’d love your commentary please I think during the you know 2018 I finished 31st in the FedEx I was playing all right to start the season
And then but it just kind of got worse and worse and um you know I can speak to what I was thinking at the time and I can think and I can speak to what actually was happening now and what I thought at the time was that um you know I I’d overdone
Something in the swing and I’ll just bounce it back like any other time period and um I I was getting um frustrated I was I was putting really poorly um I think I I finished like 200th in putting in 2018 and now I know mechanically what got off that then led
To the kind of mental struggles that come with it um and I just remember kind of going into the fall of 18 thinking oh I got a time to fix it and it it actually continued to kind of get things got worse um until uh January of
2021 um So Co actually kind of bought me some struggle time in a weird way um but I didn’t fix things or plot a chart back I thought I was all the time um I probably worked harder than any time when I was playing well because it was
So frustrating I just wanted to get to the bottom of things and um and be who I know I am and um uh what ended up really happening was I uh and a lot of probably can’t blame one thing but I hurt my hand um really poorly really badly training and I
Didn’t think much of it but I would go to my lesson with Cameron and he would say look you know your grips too weak now you you had a weaker grip you can’t you don’t have room to go any weaker um but when I would strengthen it it would
Be fine and I’d get to a four iron and then I couldn’t do it and it would hurt too bad right and so I would just I’d say look I can’t do it let’s just swing from here and I think that the mistake I made and possibly a little bit on
Cameron there is well you can’t do this you have to fix this before you go further if if he were to say that it’s a tough position for him so for me if I was more mature I would have said let’s not push this let’s figure out what’s
Actually wrong here and and get on top of it and take some time to figure it out um and so I played with an unbelievably weak grip in 18 19 with the face super open and so what ends up happening is you end up having to back
Up out of shots in order to give your self time to flip and for somebody who used to be chicken wing hold you know um and very stable face to go from that to an open face and having to kind of back out of things and flip
You know I could do it well for two or maybe even three rounds just off athleticism hand eye coordination but over the course of 72 holes I’m going to have a number of shots that are just out of control um and what was tough here is
It was so it was kind of so off that I shouldn’t have been able to have I mean make many cuts and I was able to make Cuts like in 2019 I remember I I went from 200th in putting or whatever it was in 2018 to like second in
2019 I turned that around but I was hitting it even worse and and didn’t really have many answers and um I was in the final group with Brooks at Beth Page of all places in the PGA so I’m I’m having like these chances each year I had a chance in 18
To win The Masters 19 at the PGA and I but I’m I’m going to the first team I’m like this guy’s on top of his I know what it feels like to be on top of your game and be confident going to the first team and excited and I’m sitting here
Going I don’t know when things something’s going to happen but something’s going to happen and I can try and save it with putting but there’s just I finished third and it’s like oh finished third in a major but played poorly on the weekend it’s like no I
Just happen to like hold a shot Thursday or Friday and like get the right number a few times and make four 30 Footers and um it the toughest part was when I when I would finish well it would make it seem like things were okay when they
Weren’t and I knew they weren’t I mean I know what it’s supposed to feel like and I couldn’t get it to where it was feeling the right way and um and it was so I started actually taking a full approach taking a step back taking a
Full approach in the winter of 2020 into 21 and I started working with this company called neurop Peak yes and um it was advised by Troy van be in um You probably if you watched the quarterback series on Netflix you’d see Kurt Cousins was somebody that’s been using it well
They’ve recently been on my show just for the okay okay so I started working with them in December of 2020 and I went in and I missed the cut still playing poorly in 2021 at um San Diego and it was probably that was probably Rock Bottom for me um you
Know I had tears I I didn’t know you know it was just another start to another season and and I know I’m trying to do the right things now um taking control mentally talking to people um putting in some work uh to try and help
Kind of get out of fight ORF flight to do some some breathing to kind of introduce some of that meditation stuff and um and it just I was like man I’m looking to get off to a good start and I just didn’t and I and um by the by
The Saturday of the next week I shot 61 and was in the final group in Phoenix okay and um so when you say you saw taken steps it’s funny because yes since then I believe I have but um it wasn’t like I and I took a really good step in
Um and what I was doing there but that week Cameron came in and I and I had to strengthen my grrip um I talked with Jason duffner who has been a a very big influence positive influence on how to how to help um the feel side of things
You know a lot of times as an instructor as you probably know you can instruct all you want but you can’t get in a player’s mind on how something’s feeling and that’s the most difficult separation um and so to kind of have somebody who I knew really well and
Trusted come in and say look you know it should feel like this um this is what you did well don’t even worry about it looking this way it doesn’t matter as long as you’re doing this into impact and it feels like this in Impact then
You’re going to be in a better place and to me that was that face turns down that shaft’s leaning and you’re cleared out and you’re on your left side just those things don’t even care try and pass it back keep it in front of you going back
But then just it doesn’t really matter you know I was always so video obsess for a few years okay why does this not look like it does here I’m trying this I’m trying this how can I not match up to any degree what it looked like in
2015 or 2017 or 2013 whatever and um that got me out of that so it got me impact focused ball flight focused I had just strengthened my grip to allow me to actually have the face in a better place which is a very hard thing to do the
Week of a tournament I’ll say I’m talking I’m talking a five deegree plus grip change okay I yeah I want to stop you there because look your inside is fantastic but I’m thinking ahead here and then when you eventually after thousand something days was all documented you show up there at the
Valera Texas open and that place is single F in places and if you miss Fairways is Desert and Cactus and rocks and stuff in Austin I can imagine what it’s like after now you’ve been on all that stuff in the rear view now you’re coming down the stretch and you win and
You hit the shots coming down the stretch there so was that like man I can imagine the apprehension and I’ve got to trust this but whoa there’s so much sensory overload it must been challenging sure and I wore off some of the scar tissue prior to it being April
By contending in Phoenix First hole with a hybrid on Sunday I hit over in the Rocks I make bogey with a hybrid off the tea um you know Bay Hill uh I’m contending at bill it’s the first time I’ve ever played Bill talk about a place that’s heavy stress yeah I mean Riviera
I contended the next week um after um Phoenix uh Pebble Beach after Phoenix um I contended so there’s three weeks where I hadn’t really contended in a long time um really since 2019 um and then uh I go into Bay Hill uh and uh and you know I
Have a couple shots where on Sunday it’s like I had a chance and you know so the scar tissue wore off um I start learning a little bit I start playing the right shots um the the where my vision starts getting a little bit more narrowed and then all of
A sudden you know it it it all works out there in San Antonio tremendous okay you’ve been so great with your time I have so many questions still this is fascinating for me and I’m loving it um I want to ask this because you know when one’s going
Through changes as you did you had that golf that practice rehearsal that rehearsal swing which to me was very purpose– driven and everyone’s like what’s Jordan doing I I feel like there’s so much to be learned when you want to get to your fields that you and duffner were talking about that practice
Swing was driven with that in mind yes yeah I think so also just trying to get the back swing to a place that allowed the downswing to feel better and better and better um so yeah it was um you know I still have some of it today but it’s
It’s very different it’s not the same idea um it’s just fine-tuning kind of the end of the back swing to kind of keep everything on top of the hands in plain to where um what I didn’t have then which was off speed draws um anything that I wanted to hit had to be
Either a cut or a really hard hit shot um and really getting all the shots back in the Arsenal yes so just a few quick hits here um I’ve asked you about the fields Jordan spe’s belief to playing the game well is there such a thing I mean can you encapsulated like
That having fun and having Freedom so having having they kind of go hand in hand but having freedom to me is I know what I’m doing um I’m stepping onto the te and between the swing and the putting stroke I don’t feel like I have to save anything so feeling in
Front of feeling um like the tempo gets me in front of slotted um so freedom to me uh leads to having fun and both of them together just lead to to playing good golf um you’re Hall of Fame bound you have an incredible career you’re on
The doorstep of the Grand Slam as well um you’ve been through it all it’s been like a roller coaster the train was rolling there was a roller coaster now you’re kind of backing the saddle to me um if you look back is there anything
You know for sure I mean why do you go right I’m writing this in my Memoirs one day where I’m telling Sammy this is kind of what I know for certain um I I think i’ still maybe a few things but um it’s still I still have to think that I’ve
I’ve got a lot to learn okay yeah interesting um I think the number one thing is that it’s not the critic who counts no offense Amen brother I mean I think the number one thing is you know what I mean even in 2015 or so I remember trying to
Work on things based on what I had heard people say that I didn’t know was a weapon of mine and was talked about almost negatively and I think I actually could have won more golf tournaments that year that I was trying to do the wrong things um versus like the opposite of
What I’m trying what I know was successful about what I was doing it’s bizarre you know swing it like Adam Scott well I didn’t and it’s just and it’s like well actually what I was doing was what people are trying to do now um it’s funny hey I’ve been in plenty of
Conversation as a recovering golf instructor with other pundits who would be those folks who would say well Jordan needs to do this to get better I’m like goly anyways um with putting you know th those pressure putts you used to be as at the whole almost all the time and
Then you went away from it now I see you kind of vacillating what’s your take over there yeah I think um it just kind of depends on you know if I if I feel like I’m not needing to be very um mechanic oriented then uh then I’m good
You know picking a spot in front of the ball or whatever um but if I’ve been more mechanically oriented I like looking because it takes me out of it on shorter range putts and just be more athletic um again to Jordan spe with a wedge in his hand is something that I
Dream about um the I I also watch you when you’re chipping and pitching and stuff are you bound to one wedge I mean is there like a go-to is there the playmaker or or you do you vary around greens I use a 60 degree almost all the time if I’m if
It’s a bump and run from long distance or a longdistance bunker shot I hit my 52 degree I don’t chip with my 56 degree I maybe hit one chip or two chips ever professionally with a 56 and they would have been if there was like a rock under
Because if I if I could if I because I didn’t want to damage one of the other two okay last one this is from my daughter Isabelle um she’s a fan naturally and she I said to her look I’m talking with Jordan and she’s like oh
Really she said anything you want to ask him and she said I’d love to know how Jordan manages his emotions and the expectations before around given who you are it’s a great question I should better do the interview yeah I um I I I go through a very similar routine it
Doesn’t matter when the tea time is doesn’t matter what day it is I think you go through the same routine and you fall into a good Rhythm then um and that means when I arrive at the course what I’m doing um physio gym and then when
I’m showing up how how I’m doing my actual practice prior to the round um the expectations a lot of times depend on where I am realistic about where I’m at um they’re always probably too high um for myself that’s better than being too low um I don’t feel like I ever
Exceed them in a round possibly if I get a couple good breaks and um but most of the time I’ve got a good gauge on where I’m at um and so I’ve got a um a good feel on how to manage those expectations but they’re all internal they’re all
About me they’re not anything coming from anyone else anymore um and it’s it’s quite simply I know that my ceiling at each part of my game has been top 10 in the world I’ve been a top 10 driver I’ve been a top 10 iron player I’ve been
A top so um I believe that if I can be as close to my ceiling at every part of the game um then I don’t believe I can be beaten if I’m playing that way and I’ve proven that um it’s happened before which makes it easier to believe that um and so it’s
All about continuing to try to work towards that where my ceiling is um and some sometimes you know one one part of the it’s hard to have it all there um that only comes together even for you know even for someone like tiger he’d probably tell you you only had it all
There a few times in his career um but the point is is if you believe that ceiling’s higher than those around you and you keep pushing to get to it um that’s how you that’s that’s how I’m satisfied Jordan spe um this has been thrilling thank you I’ve kept you out of
Your parental routine so I’ll let you go um thank you so much for your time I really appreciate you joining us got Mark absolutely how’s
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What are Jordan’s go to swing thoughts.