Former Rookie Of The Year Mark Carnevale Interview- Golf’s Uncertain Future

Fairways of Life is joined by our friend Mark Carnevale, 1992 Arnold Palmer Award Winner and winner on the PGA Tour. Mark shares his experience as a professional golfer, tournament organizer, and golf analyst/broadcaster.

Mark Carnaval is the 1992 Arnold Palmer award recipient as the Rookie of the Year we love bringing carne on to gain his perspective on what is happening in and around the world of golf whether it be with clubs in hands or otherwise as very much the story right now Carney how are you

Welcome good morning Matt doing great cool uh you had you’ve had time out on the tour already I’m sure of taking all this in uh let me let me just ask you from that standpoint early on the combination of young players that we’re seeing that are going to to hope to

Establish themselves which is impressive incidentally uh and the veterans that were waiting for uh to break through and do even more of what are your thoughts on what you’ve seen so far on tour uh it’s been great uh I think that again I think we’re just starting to get used to

Uh the new schedule starting in January like it had been for years and years and years and you know with the events that were in the fall the FedEx fall uh the the players that were able to be successful there now transitioning to the full season uh it was great to see

Chris Kirk win at Century uh I think uh with Grayson Murray winning last week I mean what a story that is I’m sure you talked about it and documented a little bit Matt uh that that young man really battled some issues in his life he was

Able to seems to be as straightened it out and now uh he becomes a winner on the PJ tour and what we do know about him at least I know I mean he’s one hell of a ball Striker has a lot of talent and now it looks like some of the the

Issues that he was dealing with are are not affecting his golf gam so you know sort of the sky is the limit for him but it’s going to be interesting I think uh with with the way things happened at the end of last season and and in the fall

Um uh the the the so the so-called uh seasoned veterans uh are going to have their hands full it’s interesting that you brought up Grayson Murray because we did feature his story because I think it is inspiring and I have a personal philosophy Mark that if someone is struggling with something and they’re

Willing to be honest with it and share it with the world somewhere somehow there’s probably someone that needed to hear that message and it could be at least life affirming maybe life altering or saving uh but when when you speak about it in terms of kind of a a onew

Punch in Hawaii first of all we had Chris Kirk who dealt with issues of depression and alcoholism and then you had Grayson Murray who had his own issues of substance abuse uh and it was funny because when we were featuring The the interview Mark I’m I’m looking at

Grayson Murray and I’m thinking about the Grayson Murray that used to rail on social media etc etc obviously influenced by all those all those things called them demons if you please and yet he didn’t even look the same in that press conference and from that standpoint I do think it’s incredibly

And inspiring and a credit to both both of those gentlemen who have dealt with what they have to be back in the winter circles well it should be now again I mean one one of the things I’m sure people on the outside look well you know you’re playing a game you’re making a

Lot of money well that’s not you know it’s life what you choose to pursue uh for income or any other reason uh is a challenge like we all have and I think one of the things it says is that you can never say never you never give up uh

You keep trying you figure out a way to battle through whatever issues issues you’re dealing with uh and and both those players are able to do that and I admire both of them and uh and certainly I’ve seen Chris Kirk quite a bit I’ve seen Grayson but when I hopefully see

Them next week or over the next four or five weeks on the west coast uh I’ll absolutely walk up and congratulate because again we we look we tend to look at Sports and the money that players make but I think what is overlooked is is the battles that we that that we go

Through and yes yeah there’s there’s plenty of riches on the other side there’s a lot of rewards for it but it’s still a battle it’s an internal battle and then when you deal with the outside and social media and and everything that comes with it uh it can be challenging

And for both those players to overcome that that really says a lot not only about themselves but their support groups that obviously had to help them get to where they’re at yeah there’s there’s little doubt about that uh now speaking about when when we see depth uh

That is professional golf when we see talent that is professional golf and yes at times we see the traing of of luxury and and that goes along with it but I’ll tell you quite honestly I don’t care what the field is certainly don’t care

What the sport is but if you get the top performers in those respective Sports you’re going to see the same thing you’re going to see people that are richly rewarded because ultimately golf is about entertainment and people pay for entertainment how much would you pay for a ticket to go see the Rolling

Stones in their limited tour uh this summer so the American Express though has a good field take a look at this graphic where we’ve put together just notables that are in the field this week at the American Express includes Xander Schley Tony fow Shane Lowry getting started of course Jason day looking to

Keep the good times rolling Scotty sheffler Patrick cantlay and more I guess the the the broad the wide net I’d cast on this one Mark to ask you would be what is it about this event which is not a signature event but what is it about this event in particular

That has caused a field of this strength to come together a couple of things I think one again these players and the and the modern-day players uh um you know are are going to have to get used to a new type of schedule and and like you said

Those Signature Events that are out there are going to become very important some of these players are in them some of them some of them are not and I think that’s to me that’s one of the things we’re going to watch and I and I’ll get

More to about the event here in a second as we go through the season you know what events are the bigger names players going to play in uh you know Farmers for a long time had a great field of golf but kind of where it sits now you’ve got

A signature event the following week at AT&T you’ve got of course the waste management the WM Phoenix Open the following week then you got another signature event uh at the Genesis Invitational and you where tiger is supposed to make his appearance one of the great things about uh the MX is is

That and it’s changed the format has changed over the years you used to play four golf courses you used to be over five days you’d play the four courses and you’d play the host course uh for the second time on Sunday uh they’ they’ve shortened the number of amers

That are playing it’s a little bit more like uh the AT&T Pebble Beach pram which is going to be different this year uh which will be interesting to watch but it’s it’s like golfing a dome Matt and and if you need reps if you need uh to

Get your sort of hone your game now it’s they’re not the most challenging golf courses we’ll play on the PJ tour you know except maybe the the PJ tour Stadium I mean this this the PJ Stadium Course out there the D Stadium Course um it’s it but it just allows you really to

Go play Golf the putting surfaces are spectacular again you play in normally in pretty calm conditions so I think it gives you a good chance to kind of get into the flow of your game and again you have three rounds of golf not just two so you’re going to play at least three

And I every player wants to make sure he plays the final round and makeing the cut but uh I I think it’s it’s you know it’s it’s it just it’s a great start and if you can you’re okay with the fact that you’re playing with amers and again

They it used to be one Amer one pro and four amers and it used to be really long days I think they’ve improved that uh certainly MX behind this event has done a great job and I think that really it can it can turn to be a very rewarding

Experience when when you’re talking about a pro and whatever combination with an amateur partner or three amateur Partners or four whatever it is what is it is it based on the personality of the tour pro or are there something some conditions that take place in that setting that can drive a

Pro crazy is it a guy that’s that all of a sudden he’s out there and a pro course next to a tbj tour player and he wants to prove that he’s a bucket away from being a tour player himself is it the guy that that can’t get the ball

Airborne what is it that that I know we never we don’t talk about it much but but there’s a lot of tour Pros that prefer not be in that position over the years and I’m curious what it is the primary reasons that a player comes to that

Conclusion well I I always embraced it Matt so to to know why uh you know I don’t I don’t I’ve never looked at it as a bad situation I’ve always looked at every situation as as a possibility I think one of the biggest things is the

Is the pace of play but quite frankly Matt the pace of play on the PJ tour is slow so it shouldn’t be any different there I mean to complain about that you know people talk about being distracting the the great thing about prams and and yes while we as professionals it’s about

Us trying to win a golf tournament and in a championship you have to embrace it I mean it’s opportunity to meet new people you never know when those those relationships can come to fruition into something uh that that’s beneficial not just for you but for that person that

You meet as well I I just think one of the things is that I think players make it too much about themselves and they be they they make themselves bigger than the game and why do I have to deal with this uh I I think that’s a huge mistake

Uh I think you look at it uh you know if you don’t like it you just don’t have to play in it I mean they’re they’re not forcing you to play but I think the benefits so outweigh any negative aspect of playing in an Amer event with a

Professional did you ever we hear it all times I’m curious if it happened to you mark did you ever play in a proam whether it was pre-tournament during tournament uh outside of a of a direct Tour event Etc but did you ever meet somebody on the golf course that ended

Up becoming a good sponsor opportunity for you uh I did uh I’ve become I’ve met some of my best friends uh playing in those events as well and that’s why I said you have to embrace it uh again I’ve always pictured those and not just the you know the

Events like MX and 18 but you know the Wednesday programs or any any events you play with amateurs it’s about them that day Matt I’m there to to to make their day that much better so you know I never really worried about how I play yeah you

Always want to play well but I never worried about that and I think sometimes players get too wrapped up in themselves that’s that was the point I was trying to make is that the game is bigger than you and it’s an opportunity you’re you if you’re playing in a special event

It’s going to benefit some charity uh and and you’ve got to look outside that and I think and embrace it and as I said there’s so many so many great opportunities that I had over the years in playing in different events and prams that uh you know I mean they they’re

Lasting it’s funny it reminds me of a conversation of another mutual friend of ours Curtis Strange and back in the day he was really intense and you know you probably know where I’m going with this story but focused it on him and he was playing his proam and he was out in

Front of his guys remember his Tea’s behind him and he’s out in front of him you kind of marching along and one of his amateurs caught it off the toe and it went dead sideways hit Curtis right in the head man I got when I when I when I quit

Playing and I became the the tournament director for which now would have been the corn Fair event in Virginia Beach which was back then I whatever whoever the sponsor was I went to the tour and I said you know to me why don’t we just have everybody play off one one te and

And the the the sort of backlash was well these guys you know they use it to practice and I’m saying okay what you’re telling me these guys aren’t good enough to play from a te that’s 25 or 30 yards up from where they are they’re that good

They need to use it as a practice round I said this is about the amers it’s not about the players of course again it wasn’t very welcome you know what carne I did the same thing at the PNC it was then called The Father’s son and they used to said you were

Talking about now Grant at the time uh Arnold Palmer Jack Nicholas Lee Travino Gary Player I could go on but you had these players that were well into senior years some of them 70s some of them 80s and they had everybody playing from the same te so I went in I

I went to the tour official and said I don’t know whether anybody’s talked to you about this but it takes away from the glory of who these great players are they’re still good ball Strikers they’re still great players but they can’t play from the back there’s no way you’re ever

Going to use and I’m talking about again Arnold Palmer or Jack Nicholas or Gary play or Lee Vino you will not use their Drive in the proam because they’re going to be 30 yards behind the amateurs because they’re teeing from way in the back they have since modified that I

Don’t know if I had anything to do with it or not I’m not saying I did I’m just telling you the story that there there are things you can do to look at it and make it more fun so I applaud the fact that you’re saying hey let’s just play

From here let’s be together and let’s definitely have a good time Carney with everything that is churning in and around the game right now and there is a lot I’m curious what your perception is about and again you take whatever Direction you want from John Ram going

To live etc etc but what is your P perspective on where the game is right now in January of 2024 are we in a better place than we were a year ago that’s a great question Matt uh I don’t know uh I I quite frankly and I

Was talking to Dom in the break there I know very little about what’s going on um other than what you hear uh I I have no even though I live in pav VRA Beach Florida where the PJ tour World Headquarters is I I don’t know what’s

Going on I I don’t know what the plan is I have my speculations as what I think eventually could happen and there’s no uh there’s no Credence or there’s no information behind this to to know if it will come to fruition but it’s just my my expectation and and maybe I don’t I

Wouldn’t say it’s a hope because I think gol is you know while it’s certainly getting its due with all the news uh uh you know someone always said the any news is good news well not all the time uh you know my my biggest issue with

Everything uh is you know will it change sort of the the structure of the game and what the PJ tour represents and I’m I’m all for change I’m all for things being becoming better uh real I have no problem with competition uh but it’s about choices and and you know ramifications of those

Choices what I think Matt and I think at some point it it’s got to happen because as you were reading those comments from uh uh Mr P earlier it is about the game and how how does it get better and in order order to make the consistency of the game and the

Consistent attention to it the best players in the world have to play together uh that breeds inspiration that that sort of you know breeds desire uh to be where those players are and again this comes from absolutely no information that I received or anything it’s just where I see things going I

Think in my anticipation what’s going to happen is basically you’re going to have a premier league of golf and I don’t know what number that’s going to be is it going to be 70 is it going to be 80 uh might be lower than that but I think

You’re going to have relegation and the relegation is going to come on and off from both the PGA Tour and the DP World Tour uh they’re going to play around the world they’ll play in the major championships but again I think it all goes back to the one sort of point that

All these players have made is that you know they they win to live to play fewer events ultimately I think they’re going to be where they were the whole time with the number of events they’re going to play but that’s that’s sort of what I see is uh possibly where the future of

Of the game as far as trying to get these guys the the best players play together but again that I I don’t have any information leading to that that’s just my speculation do you see in in your speculation Carney that the team aspect of golf uh from Liv would be

Incorporated into that premier league as you called it or would it be something separate I mean it could I wouldn’t I wouldn’t like to see that um in the SC I have no problem with any of that now I have not watched one live event you know I mean you hear

About it you I don’t read much about it because I don’t read much news anyways uh I think he would have some some opportunity for that in the fall I don’t think it should be golf has always been and this is kind of my my feeling for

That golf has always been an individual sport uh I’m not you know we we grew up playing on teams in high school and college and I get that point and you know people would say wellow you know you had it there but at this level it’s

Always the history of it has always been about the individual outside of the the Ryder Cup and the President’s Cup uh I think it would take something away because we we’re always trying to win that Championship that trophy yeah I I get it and they seem to like the team

Thing and and maybe the players do I don’t know I haven’t really talked to any players you know about it uh because ultimately I think it always comes down to the money they they can they’re convinced they like it because they’re getting paid a lot of money I I don’t

Know again these are just my my thoughts but I could see a point with the way the tour schedule is now that you could have a number of events in that period uh in the FedEx Cup fall where you have these team events and guys can choose to play

There’s no there’s not that pressure of trying to win a tournament you out there you know again I would approach it that way just go out and have fun and uh so forth but again it always comes back to this the one of the the big uh issues

That they had is the number of ter are going to play so we can sit there and say that people can say I’m wrong but ultimately it comes down to the money Carney has it surprised you being around the game for as long as you have that we’re in an era right

Now where players are speaking for better for worse does it I it doesn’t really matter to me whether one agrees with what a player said or disagrees with a player from a journalis position I love the fact that they are speaking we have never

Seen a time in the game of golf in my view where we know where a player’s heart lies and whatever the subject is even if it’s with the say the commissioner or another player that they have uh either praised for or scorned for carne I’ve never seen it like this

Before it I described it when we came on the air this morning as kind of it’s almost golf’s we’re in at professional level at at some golf’s wild West have you ever seen anything like this before where it’s openly shared through through mediums such as social media or media at

Large well certainly social media has changed a lot of it um I’ve always been one if I have an issue I’m going to approach that individual with that issue I’m I’m not going to resort to social media I mean there are ways to get in

Touch with people um I think back in the day uh you know 30 one I got to go way back now because I’m thinking I’ve been 30 something years since I first got on tour uh you know maybe 50 60 years ago my understanding through talking to a number of people players

Handled their uh situations you know I think obviously with how the game grows and everything uh you know there were ramifications if you spoke out uh you know conduct uncoming and so forth uh I go back to this Matt it’s something that I’ve believed in and disagree with sort of

The what’s been been put out there over the years you know we we’ve always talked about the PJ tour being about the players well quite frankly I don’t think the players own the tour uh you know it’s it’s said that uh again this is strictly my opinion

Um you know they don’t have owners when I say they don’t have ownership in it you know you have a you have a you have a board and you have all this but there’s no there’s no specific way as you said for players to deal with these

Situations you go to a meeting and there’s a lot of yelling back and forth and you know there’s so many disagreement there no different than we are anywhere in life you know people have different ideas and and I think that they haven’t they don’t have a

Voice you know I mean uh even the members on the board I mean you you mentioned the you know the Rory Mao and and and I don’t know if you mentioned but there was the Grayson Murray you know uh thing I mean there there’s no again Rory’s on the

Board as a player I don’t know if Rory has my best interest at heart um you know you’d like to think they do but they you know people are people I mean they’re going to do what’s in in their own best interest and it was interesting Matt I was working the

Bermuda championship and you know we’ve talked about slow play and and all this stuff and it’s just it’s ridiculous out there and I I don’t know again I think players have to take ownership and I think I went up to Stephen Cox and I said you know if I was playing right now

You guys would be fining the hell out of me because I would be I would be in all these players faces uh with as as slow as the play is out there um it’s it’s interesting Matt um you know I always felt like the the the board should have

A player majority on it uh if if it truly is about the players and I’m not saying any of these any of these independent uh directors are are outstanding very successful businessmen but none of them have played the game of golf they may understand business but I don’t think they understand the game

They may play golf but they don’t understand it at the professional level so I think again ultimately I think for a lot of stuff to change and be different and the way they’re addressed it and I hate to see people address it on social media in the sense that yeah

You can get your but there’s no you can say whatever you want and whether it’s true or not you know who cares I mean I I mean that’s at least that’s the sort of uh perspective I have and I know it’s a big part of our our world right now

But I think when you have issues I’ve always believed the the best way to handle them is is is in person and face to face Mark carnavale a winner on the PGA tour winner at every level that he’s ever played the game as I mentioned previously we love having him on the

Show to give us his Insight uh unvarnished such as it is and that’s the thing that we love about it and that that is as well a reflection I think of where we are with all of the information coming in I happen to love it Mark because my personal philosophy is is

That it’s not my job to tell people how to think I want to get as many views and perspectives in as possible so people can come to their own conclusions and yours is one that we very very much appreciate so we are full of gratitude

For that uh we hope you are doing well and hope your travels are safe and looking forward to your work both on PJ tour radio which you can hear on the PJ tour app you can hear it on pj.com if you subscribe to and both those are free

And work around the world or you if you subscribe to national satellite service SiriusXM as well as on ESPN plus a PGA Tour live and more Carney always a pleasure y m thank you I know that was a lot but people are going to might say I’m kind

Of crazy but I I I’ve been around this game like you have for a long time uh always a pleasure to be with you uh my friend and hopefully we’ll get together soon yeah I hope so too the thought that’s running through my head was crazy

Like a fox if that’s the case Mark Hil joining us