Grant Brisbee, Andy McCullough and Marc Carig talk about relievers who think they can be starters, who has had the most disappointing offseason so far and we break down the Eagles getting knocked out of the NFL Playoffs.
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Welcome to episode number 80 of the round table I’m Grant brisbee here at anim Mulla and Mark kig Mark how you doing today oh fantastic no I’m not fantastic a pipe broke in the kitchen it’s an absolute disaster and there workers coming through and trying to fix
It um no so I’m not fantastic I’m lying to you I’ve been better but it’s okay there can be worse I could be an Eagles fan anyway uh segue to Andy how are you doing Andy hey we finally found something leakier than the Philadelphia Eagles defense the pipes and Mark’s house
Bazinga I’m done with the Eagles yeah you know I faked my way back into being a fan last year I’m done I’m back I’m agnostic again I’m a journalist okay look I am a journalist yes and I take my impartiality and my credibility very very seriously very seriously and I
Cannot compromise that by throwing my remote at the television as Matt patria’s defense just acts like an actual Civ like the tackling did you see the tackling last night wasn’t great wasn’t great yeah that was bad on that on that one where the rookie guy sprang free and
That was a bad tackle there was like four plays you’re what what play are you talking about Grant which 60 yard touchdown pass with 50 yards after the catch were you talking about you know at least they got a lot better when they made that change a defensive coordinator
Huh Can you can someone explain this to me like that just smells like textbook fail up nonsense or or stab in the back so I I mean Matt Patricia like come on come on isn’t isn’t the book out on this guy already and so then you watch what
The disgrace that they’ve become the last six weeks and that it’s you know because guys can’t tackle or or what was that one play I love that one play where um the defensive backs run into each other they set a pick for the other team there was two plays like that there
Was there were actual two plays like that yeah I don’t know it it does suggest that um that uh the head man Nick serani might not have the sauce long term uh and I would I I don’t know people don’t people actually probably do listen to this for our football takes
Because I don’t know why sickos uh would listen to this podcast otherwise unless they’re trying to like get Mark fired um but it is hard to Envision the birds not seriously considering making a change considering you know bellich Vel Pete Carol and uh Jim Harbaugh all available
So who knows who knows you know would be so funny yeah there’s no chance it’ll be Harbaugh uh Pete Carol will be kind of fun I don’t know I don’t know if that’d be an upgrade or a downgrade so yeah not a ton going on this week uh we can’t
Really fill 45 minutes with Jordan Hicks uh granny did you go on any travels recently I went to Tucson Arizona this weekend I’ll have you know I hand fed an ostrich they’re bitey but they don’t have teeth uh I saw kxo performed with the Tucson Symphony Orchestra uh it was
Just a delightful uh Family Getaway just for a little long three-day weekend so um that’s what I did nothing bring the ostrich I wish I wish I did write about Jordan Hicks in a hotel room though so have you called in to K&B suggesting the Giants should sign the
Ostrich man that would be if well no they need to get a minor leager with that nickname I mean come on ostrich hats you kidding me you could do like little ostrich backpacks you could do all sorts of things with an ostrich uh so I’m just going to go on to Baseball
America pull up a list um pick one guy and that the ostrich and if I’ll keep writing about him and if he breaks through I get what 20% of the cut of the ostrich hats I I am fascinated by the relief pitchers that keep saying no no
Really I’m a starter no really I’m a starting pitcher try no for real let me start some ball games because I I covered Seth luga with the Mets yeah and this was Seth Lugo for years and years and years I I’ll do whatever they want I’m a starter though no really I can
Start and then finally the San Diego Padres kind of listen to it he was right dude a starting pitcher right like that he’s a rich one now yeah I mean well look at him he’s a starting pitcher that’s great so I I am I’ve always been interested in that right we
People make calls about players like starting pitchers pretty early in their careers this is what they are and that’s that and and I wonder if there’s something to reexamining that whole idea just because there’s so much more so many more ways to measure why a pitcher is having
Success that you would think that would make it easier to reconsider some of those decisions and I and I always wonder too like how much of that is you’ve been told that you’re this and a player just sort of believing it at some point right and uh but so it is
Fascinating I’m not saying that you know I don’t know what I don’t know what the Giants thinking is on on hicks in particular but I think in general um I think that’s a fun one and I and I wonder if there you know we see a little bit more openness in these
Scenarios where you know because we’re talking about in Hicks and Seth Leo guys who are like major league players that have done something like there’s some track record there right Nick Martinez Too right time with the Reds is and you know planning to start yeah yeah so is this
Thing I wonder I with with uh Hicks he has a really interesting career path where he’s drafted out of high school right and then he comes up when he’s 2021 I mean really early he skipped double A and triaa came up straight from high a and because he could throw a
Million miles per hour didn’t really know where was going before that he was a starter but the Cardinal said no no no this this cat throws triple digits he can fit in a bullpen right now they were right um but he never lost that bug
Where it’s like no I I really want to start I started my whole career I envision myself as a starter I don’t think the Giants think he’s a starter I think that was kind of the price of admission and they’re in a a position where they can go like yeah knock
Yourself out for a couple months I mean we’re not really seeing it but you’re basically a an opener for us which we might have used anyway we’ve got a bunch of young pitchers we want to see who can stick in a rotation it aligned and so I
I really don’t think they they believe like oh wink wink we’ve got the secret sauce here we’ve got a starter now but they’re going to let him try so you know go nuts well I also think too Mark you raised the question of you do you guys start believing what they’re told about
Themselves right and this was maybe yeah like 10 years ago I was talking with probably with some Royals people about uh the idea of you know starters versus relievers and one of their people said to me something that I think is really true even though it comes across is kind
Of harsh but he was basically saying you know all relievers are broken in some way right they’re starting pitchers who’s somewhere along the way there was some box they couldn’t check on the starting pitcher checklist you know so it’s like maybe they can’t like uh you
They don’t have a third pitch or like they can’t sustain velocity or um you know they they don’t do well you know a third time through the order or they struggle with the running game or there’s something wrong with them that moves them out of the pool right well
We’ve reached a point where like okay you don’t have a third pitch Hey Kevin gausman come on down you know do you have an elite first pitch you know we can we can do that with starting pitchers it’s like oh you can only make it two times through you know two times
Through the order congratulations Blake Snell just won another Sai Young you know all the the standards of what a starting pitcher is have changed more so in the last you know five to 10 years than they probably had in the previous you know 20 I don’t know I could be
Wrong about that but like it you know the barrier for entry is a lot lower so if you can get Jordan Hicks you know healthy in the strike zone once every fth day for you know 75 pitches give it a shot you know see what it looks like
Because that is probably going to be more valuable than him making you know 60 to 70 appearances in in relief yeah that all tracks that all tracks and I you i’ think that what you’re saying about the the role of starting pitchers 100% is true it’s just it’s not the way
It used to be where yeah that third lack of third pitch yeah we can’t have you it’s like no you’re going to be throwing four Innings anyway five innings anyway that’s just that’s just how it is unless you’re like a young Justin berlander or Logan Webb or someone like that like
It’s just yeah I think that all tracks and you might see more of this I’m trying to think of other relievers who might uh have a yen to start and I’m sure they’re out there I’m sure there there’s some that still think like boy if I got my shot um I remember asking
Brandon Morrow uh about you know do you want do you still have that urge to start he’s like no so in the bullpen he’s laugh me off so there are some people who are predisposed to but I bet you there’s some people who are like no
Get me back in there yeah well Brandon Morrow you know who had a wonderful career you know ended up having really made a great career for himself despite a lot of things going wrong um like Brandon Morrow wasn’t forced by a team to become a reliever right the game made
Him a reliever because his body couldn’t handle it and he became an elite reliever for a time you know and that there’s a difference I think when there’s someone like who Mark’s talking about luk who they’re like yeah we just don’t see you as a starter versus like
The game kind of demonstrates that you’re not a starter yeah yeah no I mean it it’s you know what what you’re talking about Andy about the lower uh barrier for entry is interesting and mean we’ve all seen it but as I watch it like I I remember just thinking to
Myself how much easier it would be to like manage pitchers if you had like a video game Life meter on all of them you know like you tell like yeah if you’re playing the show and like you could see the fatigue bar like if that actually existed for people and what you would
Find right is that they very I mean not rarely but it doesn’t there’s a lot of times in the sport where that fatigue bar if you will doesn’t really correlate to the buckets we’ve created so for instance and you talk about you know Grant talking about marrow and like people in the
Bullpen what what I’ve talked to reliever is like a lot of what what they like about being the bullpen mental that that knowing that they’re probably going to throw again the next day so that if it goes good or bad or whatever they’re gonna get a shot right
Away that so many of them one thing I heard so much of when I talk to him about this stuff was the four day weight was torture okay then you talk to the Rel or the I’m sorry the starters and and something you’d hear about them is some
People wanted to throw sooner than their fifth day yeah because they felt like they bounced back faster and some just it would be like day seven until they felt like they were all the way back and so the second their previous start was done was just race against the clock to
Kind of get themselves ready to go however they could and and I find like I If the barrier for entry for starting pitcher is lower what we’re really saying is that that role is totally re it’s getting more chipped away and redefined totally and and so I think it
Now opens the possibilities for more of these things like who’s why does a pitcher have to go every five days yes it’s better for your schedule and it’s sort of this it makes sense arbitrarily right but is that really the best um performance that you’re going to get out
Of a person like everybody’s so different all right and so maybe this is a way for the sport to finally kind of account for those differences because really they’ve never accounted for those differences until now yeah right like if you’re starting picture the expectation was every five days actually it’s more
Now right like it’s really six in a lot of cases okay so there there but even still like what about the guy who might feel better like coing every four days right like those people exist too so and and I don’t know I just saw this thing
About the NBA like load management like their claim that it doesn’t really you know impact injury or whatever like I think there’s some to some extent there’s there’s some of that going on in baseball I would think like not all the way obviously like there’s some like tie
In for overuse or whatever but I don’t know I wonder if there’s a wider birth to be able to kind of maneuver around some of those things it was when the Giants were using an opener two times three times through the rotation sometimes the common complaint on on
Twitter was oh my gosh they’re they’re they’re ruining their Bullpen they’re ruining their Bullpen they’re they’re just everyone’s gas but that wasn’t it it it was he had manah he would go for three Innings one day and it would be Jun the next day and you’d have Alex
Wood going this and what they really had was kind of like a quasi 8 n man rotation and they had like if you look at how many innings how many pitches Jacob junis threw um it’s it’s fewer than the typical you know starter it’s it’s very relish but he was basically a
Starter and I think that’s how teams are going to start looking at things is is less um we have a fiveman rotation and then we’ve got our relievers we got one long guy and no you’re going to start seeing you know quasi 8man rotations or maybe not an eight-man rotation but like
A a 12 13 man bullpen in a way it’s just gonna be you know uh Rose of a different name or color whatever we’re all gonna be we’re all gonna be outg Getters we’re all you know and we’re gonna I I will say that even though I said that sea
Mani didn’t like his role I mean he was a a team player you know he’s like yeah yeah I’ll do it I’ll do it but you see he signs with the m he’s like no I want a freaking start I’m good at it I think
That I so much of what you know doing something outside the perceived Norm the perception I don’t know why I use perception twice but whatever the the the way it’s absorbed matters a lot based on results so for example um the Dodgers are going to do a six-man
Rotation this year they might not call it a six-man rotation there might not be a designated six-man but the pitchers will have probably five days of rest as much as possible in between starts and you know how I know that because they did it last year and that was before
They had Yoshi noo Yamamoto okay like if you look at last year their their four main starters the majority of them pitched the majority of their outings on extra rest quote unquote extra rest and so I think when you’re teams who are sort of assembling um you know a roster
You can’t I mean this has been this way for almost 10 years that that that that the smartest teams or at least the teams who had been trying to get ahead of this hadn’t looked at it as we need five guys who can throw for a thousand Innings
They were like we have a thousand Innings how do we com like how do we do that how do we get our thousand Innings taken care of and you know it might be one guy takes 200 and another guy takes 150 how do you structure it so that the
150 is you know sort of synced up properly so that he’s you know ready to go in October all that sort of stuff um you know so I would like to say that I deserve credit for neither mentioning that Brandon Morrow was taken fifth overall in the 2006 draft two slots
Ahead of Clayton Kershaw and that Mark mentioned pitchers who like going on every fourth day the last of his kind is due out May 7th of it pre-orders Are all uh please pre-order the book please anyway I I think it’s I think it’s gonna be I you know this year will
Probably be seen with you know there’s going to be so much focus on the Dodgers it’s a copycat League um you will probably see teams being more open and I’d have to actually look because I you know I’m not you know I’m not Eno like I’m not locked in on this
On a day-to-day I would be curious to know like how the how the best teams did their sort of days of rest um I think it’s be gonna become more pronounced as you know year by year but there’s going to be such intense focus on the Dodgers
That it’s going to stop being seen as like are you gonna go to a six-man more as like you got six guys don’t you yeah I think there’s something to that okay as far as just not putting a label on it actually just do it without
Calling it that yeah and it sort of takes away some of the um sting and and you know it’s funny because because baseball I think we we uh see things like a starting rotation and feel like it’s been that way forever and it hasn’t you know actually
There used to be like two pitchers on the staff back like now they throw like all the Innings right like I mean so we we have seen this evolve right like this is not um something that’s ever been static so why would it just stop because it’s fiveman rotation and a bullpen and
A closer hell the the idea of like a straightup closer is relatively new right like that’s not even that’s within our lifetime that they invented this idea of a straightup closer which by the way right the idea of a straight up closer doesn’t even you know there’s no
Impact on how many times a team will win a ball game like based on that specialization it’s my favorite fact like in football right like field goal percentages keep Skyrocket and they climb and climb and climb and climb um in baseball like if you look at 1955 or
Now like the same percentage of teams win a ball game if they lead by two or three runs at the end of the game like it actually hasn’t changed is that is that for real yeah like it hasn’t changed very much whereas like I don’t know back then did you see people
Kicking 50 yard field goals no now they’re chipot yeah like that you know it’s insane and that’s where specializ specialization works and baseball is where it doesn’t work at all like the number’s not that different all right going to take a little break to promote spin drift water
Um they’re not a sponsor but if they could send me a couple cases shit’s expensive but it’s delicious so spin drift water if you’re out there spin drift um so so let’s go and let’s let’s go around and talk about the teams that should have done more there’s still time
To do more man there’s still Blake snow there’s still Jordan Montgomery so this is all a little bit Hasty um but at the same time there are some teams where I’m looking at them and going come on come on you know taking their pulse what are
You doing here that sort of thing who wants to go first and yell at a team how many times we gonna say the Baltimore Orioles need a starting pitcher and then watch him not get a starting pitcher that’s what I was thinking of so maybe we just yell at the
Orioles for them I mean you know is this like big takeoff this this [ __ ] talking about oh we’re done building it’s time to like go get after it and whatever like I’m still waiting and it’s like this is a very young exciting team but they also are in
A tough neighborhood the AL East doesn’t sleep all right so I feel like if they’re playing in the Central and you’re just like let’s add Craig Kimbrell and and whatever okay but they don’t play in the AL Central they play in the meanest streets in baseball and every year we’re like where’s the
Starting pitch and every year it see or not every year last year’ good for one year yeah not every year like last year just like where’s a starting pitching like you know they sort of make a couple moves like whatever no one’s excited about it now it’s the off season and
Yeah still waiting and and so it they’re sending signals out that they don’t want to trade the prospects or whatever you know to to get some of the guys who might be available in the trade market like okay but it’s like you’re still GNA need to cover those Innings with
Something of quality right and their Bullpen took a bunch of hits last year right guys got hurt they got worn down so I’m just kind of wondering like where where are they going to fill these Innings I mean I say that not to even hate on them or what I think the Orioles
Are super exciting and interesting or whatever but it just it feels to me like this is so obvious get some help there and it just hadn’t happened really at the level I feel like it needs to I mean am I nuts well you’re you’re not nuts if the
I I wrote about this a little bit like weeks ago like I’m I’m not uh and this it’s kind of stupid for the purpose of this exercise because we’re pretending the offseason is over or whatever but like I think with the Orioles right they’re in a position where they can be
Patient like they’re not going to sign blak nowy I mean maybe they will but they’re not going to sign blak nowy right they’re not going to like spend the money to do that that’s just not the way that they have done business if they’re going to acquire an elite
Pitcher it’s going to be through a trade and the question is if that’s in the next six weeks or if it’s in the next you know six months and it’s something that they end up doing at the deadline um I think the problem with as you
Further Kick the Can down the road or as the you know the exact call it possess optionality um you might miss out on opportunities uh and so the idea though is that you’re well positioned to strike you know whenever an opportunity arises and so that you’re not you know sort of
Locked in and so this this is just a way of saying like look I you know talk talk a lot about the Dodgers on here but like there was a lot of times during you know the the per periods before 2020 where it’s like how come the Dodgers aren’t on
Harper how come they’re not on Machado you know oh man they missed on Cole oh they can’t swing a trade for Lindor like they can’t swing a train for Stanton what are they doing and then it’s like oh hey mie bets just fell into our laps like that’s nice right and so the
Orioles could be in a position where it’s like why are they not like just getting this deal done for Dylan CE and then you look up in July and it’s like hey cman Burns is actually a pretty good guy at the top of their rotation so I I
Don’t I’m not too critical of that because I feel like they Pro they have enough they have probably enough bulk in their rotation to be perfectly fine I think without adding a number one the question becomes if you don’t make a move now and you don’t make a move this
Summer it starts to be like hey are you you know you ever gonna you know kind of get after it right are like are you ever gonna make do the hard thing of you know cutting back you know of of reducing this Prospect Surplus I guess
Um I don’t know I’m more confused by them signing Craig Kimbrell I don’t mean to be like rude like I don’t mean to be rude to Craig kimal who like is has was maybe the best reliever of you know the past whatever 15 years there’s something I don’t clearly I was there’s clearly
Something that they see with him that having watched him for the past couple years that my eyes do not uh correlate with um so you know I don’t uh buy Mark Mark’s had enough he loves CG gimell um but like Grant am I wrong you know what
I mean like when when when teams like clearly like the Orioles have a lot of like brain power in the way they make decisions right the smart guys all that sort of stuff like when you see a team that you perceive as smart doing something that a team that you would
Perceive as being um on the less intellectually rigorous side I.E like hey let’s sign the nine time closer even though every time we’ve watched him it appears incredibly challenging for him to get someone out like you’re clearly you know what I mean yeah I listen I 13 one year 13
Million for Kimbrell like that’s kind of like worth the flyer where if he kicks it back into to Kimbrell shape of a few years ago and you you get that shortened game a little bit like you’re taking a gamble is that going to happen maybe not probably not but for 13 million that’s
Kind of a the standard for just a generic midal reliever almost on the open market so I don’t mind that necessarily I just I can’t believe that people would subject themselves to his style of pitching the aesthetic seriously yeah like he’s he’s good he’s valuable he helps but like I can’t
Imagine having a stake in the game that he’s pitching in and like watching him pitch watching him trying to because he’s generally successful I’m not trying to hate on him I’m just saying aesthetically my baseball experience is rarely uh improved by Craig Kimble yeah nioro friend of the Pod from the Arizona
Republic like during the NLCS he was talking about watching Kimber and he was just like he has to work so hard for every single out and yeah I am not sure why he would subject your Club to that experience unless you are just looking at the raw data and saying like look it
Doesn’t matter what this like looks like we know what this is and we can input that because I just can’t from an eye test level understand making him the highest paid player on your team is is 13 million the highest paid player on the ORS yikes okay so I was going to agree
With you a little bit where it comes to there is something to the idea of let’s get three more months worth of data and let’s attack the trade deadline knowing who’s hot knowing who is throwing the ball well knowing which of our prospects have superficially good stats but we
Know there’s something under the hood where maybe we can swing a deal with them in mind they’re going to be more attractive to another team than our internal reports have there’s going to be more information so I get that and that’s a viable strategy but if your
Highest paid player is a middle reliever making middle reliever money I know he’s a closer but like if that’s your if that’s your guy maybe spend a little money you know if you’re the Orioles because it’s such an easy you can look at that roster and go this team has it
All accept and it’s obvious what the accept is and I get that agents are generally a bad idea but sometimes you have to do the bad ideas in order like you have to take the risk to get the reward and the rewards pretty darn valuable like even if they’re not in the
The AL East like this is a team that’s a couple pieces away and it’s not like ambiguous as to what those pieces are right yeah I wonder if I’m being an old fogy and doing oh they’re in the division because like you don’t have to win a division anymore to you know
Obviously do well in the postseason but yeah I mean it’s certainly doesn’t hurt and I think it’s just weird to me that they’re on this ascendants right and but they really haven’t behaved like it truly except for letting the young kids go play and be good right like they
Haven’t chase the success by by you know wi with basically infusing it with money or devoting resources to get better players in to surround this core so yeah and Andy talks about the Dodgers and optionality and obviously it’s hard to argue with that they have been you know
One of the best run clubs in the sport for so long okay but also they weren’t running payrolls at the Orioles level or anywhere close to it when they were practicing these ideas of optionality they were still spending yeah tons of money right and and you know I get that
Like their ownership group can do that right I get I get it and that the Orioles ownership group maybe it’s they they feel like it’s a very different situation I get it but I still don’t know if you know I I can go along with that comp just because
The disparity is so wide right I mean I don’t I think surely the Orioles could spend more than this surely they could uh yeah I think that but but the thing is though is that Financial disparity makes them makes it more important that they get it right and don’t just spend
To spend and don’t just trade to trade you know and so that almost handcuffs them more in a way right because they if they sign if the Dodgers sign you know whatever like uh I don’t know they if they sign a player and he’s not particularly good right they sign bow
Well yeah I was talking more in the yeah that’s like a catastrophe but I was thinking more of the like you sign a player for 460 and he’s not very good like a mid-tier free agent right that doesn’t prevent the Dodgers from doing anything yeah right for the Oriol if
They all of a sudden have you know 460 on their books that might stop them from doing something sure sure and so you have to be really really targeted and really so it actually increases the need for caution again or you know they could spend in conjunction with their revenues
Pro labor all that sort of stuff he just he just like was like fly anti- labor right there I’m not being anti- labor I’m explaining why they’re doing what they’re doing they work in a monopoly Mark the entire construct is anti labor I just kidding I was just
Trying to press a button jeez did I hit it yeah oh that it the thing with the ORS okay so I guess what I’m not giving him enough credit for is that John means uh is back he should be yeah he should be like to full strength uh you you’ve
Got bradish you’ve got Rodriguez uh ker had a good year last year uh very you know promising in a lot of respects we’re just talking about one spot and that’s where I get that they can’t afford to to whiff that often I feel like they should be able to whiff once
You know what I mean I think that they can handle one 460 or even like one 5100 like I feel like the Orioles if they had that they could go uh you know ah raspberries but they can still sign other players I think they get one and
Their roster is set up to where that is the the glaring holes they’ve got like a 26-man roster and there’s one spot on it where they can be really really improved for this coming season and the postseason if they get there yeah well I think you grant brisbee are giving them
That Authority it’s not clear if John Angelos is providing them that same authority to like whff yeah I’m I’m officially giving them that Authority by the way hey friend of the Pod come on on anytime yeah no who else is in this conversation what are the Cubs doing are the Cubs
Good I like I like imaga but at the same time how much do you like imaga how much like I like him a lot I I think I think he’s got a a deception that people aren’t necessarily give him enough credit for I think he’s got a good mix
Of pitches he struck out more guys last year than Yamamoto um both like number of strikeouts but also rate I think he’s a sneaky deceptive guy and I think he really wanted to be on the Cubs and now he is they’re better with him on it but
I I agree like Matt Chapman kind of fits that roster perfectly so he’s still out there let’s see if they do it but it’s been a weird quiet offseason for them yeah imaga certainly deceived me into thinking he was going to get more than 53 million everyone yeah almost like Market
Cratered uh yeah I don’t know he could be good who knows it’s it’s tough you know the it’s it’s it’s a lot tougher to not a lot tougher but it you know it’s there are some challenges in in coming over it’s not as hard as it as it used
To be um but even then like what okay they won 83 games last year right they clearly decided that moving on from David Ross and bringing in Craig Council was worth you know the AA um but it’s like who who’s who’s the best player on that team like Justin steel you know
Like it’s just kind of unclear like are they you know are they ready for prime time or not and they haven’t done much to you know change kind of that perception so that they’re a club who like still has you know I think Jed Hoyer said this weekend they’re in the
Fourth inning of the off season which like sure makes sense I’d say it’s probably closer to the fifth but you know I don’t want to quibble um you know so like lot of there’s still I I just don’t know how adding Matt Chapman I don’t it fits though it fits yeah
It yeah that’s I don’t know a lot of money’s a really good Defender and but the the the the bat it’s a rough he’s a rough player to Peg he’s a rough player to like get excited about but he’s also really good but he’s also yeah the B you know the
Contact where the contact but he’s really good you look at the war but also it’s almost like he’s the the hitting version of Craig Kimbrell infield Cody Ballinger because you know Ballinger is gonna play plus defense right he now he obviously his swings are like the the the ups and
Downs are more pronounced even than Chapman although Chapman was like had like a 650 Ops after April this past year so that’s you know injured bellingeri and you know territory it there’s just a when you’re when you’re looking at free agents especially the ones who get there you
Know entering their 30s man it’s like it’s it’s a scary proposition sometimes if you’re you know anti- labor I’m just thinking about when Matt Chapman and Matt Olsen were on the same team and you’re if you were to ask me like which one of those two would you have like a
Little bit of hesitation giving a long-term deal to right I wouldn’t have said Matt Chapman I would have said Matt Olson oh interesting right like so I don’t know if I wouldn’t I would have said I mean I don’t point is like it was a fun exercise then and it’s kind of fun
Now because like you know all these things about Matt Chatman is like he’s undeniably a really good ball player yeah undeniably gonna help a team win more ball games uh but also yeah it’s not a straightforward case when it comes to this context of um you know what you
Say Grant tough payer to play or or to pay yeah tough player to pay so yeah I don’t agree with that and and it’s it’s odd except you know the case of the Chicago Cubs boy does it fit right doesn’t it is it not like that’s seems
Like it it it really Clicks in so wait so you’re telling me there was a team that had Olsen at first and Chapman at third did they have did they have a short stop yeah wild yeah crazy right yeah wild stuff wild stuff uh I’m going
To switch to a different team because uh I’m going to list all the free agents that they’ve brought in from outside the organization Here Comes uh Isaiah ker FFA and that’s it that is all the Blue Jays have done from they resigned Kevin K Meer I was gonna say they brought Kier
Meer back that’s it yeah as as far as like from outside the organization they got one utility infielder and they’re just they’re going to roll it’s Alec monoa he’s still in the rotation as of now um so good for him I think the Blue Jays maybe could be doing more it’s
Almost like they’re an advanced version of the Orioles but they’re not winning as much but they’ve they’ve got so many pieces and you just wonder where’s the urgency well what okay so you think they should add a pitcher I think so I mean you know they they’ve got a pretty full
Rotation right and you do you don’t want to give up on the Noah right uh quite yet so I get it I get it um I think that there’s like something they should be doing something and I don’t know if it’s in the bullpen I don’t know if it’s just
An outfielder that helps make km less of a uh full-time guy because I I don’t expect him to hit like he did last year um I don’t know what it is I just if I’m a a blue J’s fan I’m acting like the Giants fans are right now you know what
I mean well I think the the the problem and there’s a I think this kind of the problem for the Blue Jays is similar to what the solution is which is they need their guys to be their guys right they need Vlad Guerrero to be closer to the MVP version rather than
The 780 Ops version right they need you know like bashet to be you know a six- win player they you know they need George Springer and I know this is gonna is challenging just given his injury history but they need him on the field more you know they need bigio to take a
Step forward right they need VAR they need Dalton varo to be you know kind of the player that that the Diamondbacks and everyone expected him to be and I he probably will be pretty good this year I think varo is actually a good bit a good
Bet to be um like an above average hitter I think in 2024 um but that’s you know the answers are like right on the roster the problem is that when you have watched the roster underperform for like three years in a row right or like what
However many it is where you’re kind of like hey this is you know the movie is here you know last year was the trailer now it’s the movie and it’s like this is you know this movie is gie it’s not gie it’s more like um triple Frontier you
Ever see Triple Frontier no triple Frontier is on Netflix man it’s uh it’s got Ben Affleck it’s got Isaac it’s got Charlie honam um and it’s got another handsome guy and uh they’re all like sort of uh uh you know former soldiers who basically go on this like um go on
This raid and it’s either Brazil or Mexico to like steal money from a drug lord and it’s just like you saw the trailer you’re like this movie should be awesome look at all these awesome people and then you watch the movie and you’re like yeah you know and that’s kind of
The Blue Jays where you’re like look at this cast and then you watch and you’re like yeah it didn’t I don’t know something didn’t click and so that’s like that you know yeah sure they can you know add Blake Snell whatever you’re better with Blake Snell but it’s kind of
Like your team’s on the floor you know yeah no that’s that’s all fair uh just real quick I was reminded I saw a uh bootleg Bart Simpson as Dick Tracy shirt it reminded me of the Summer where everyone’s just like Dick Tracy Dick Trac Dick Tracy and like that’s kind of
One of those movies where you look at it and it’s like man that movie it’s it’s gonna be it’s got mcon Al paccino and like you know the makeup’s Wild and no one’s talking about it today anyway uh I yeah I I get it and your point
About VAR is good because I I forgot how poorly he hit uh in his first year at the Blue Jays he had an 85 adjusted Ops yeah 674 he was still worth like four wins he’s a he’s a really player really good Defender and uh I I know just like
Being around the um being around the uh the the Diamondbacks during uh the World Series and you know during that run like they were continuously talking off they’re like no like V because there’s a couple times you know they they would kind of be asked about you know the
Trade uh with Moreno um you know because it looked like it was clear win for the Diamondbacks right and you know on the record you know on back they were just basically like no we think V was a really good player like he just did you
Know we preferred Gabby and thosar for a variety of reasons but like it’s or no sorry lordis gurel excuse me um but you know like there was just a sense of like No like varo is is gonna be a good player yeah the one thing I I didn’t
Like with the Blue Jays uh is that they got him and the whole point of Dalton Faro is that he’s a freak who can be a gold glove type catcher and a gold glove type center fielder which should be illegal but they didn’t use them at
Catcher I mean I get why they have yeah they have too many I mean yeah but that’s like if I’m gonna pay the premium that they did for Dalton bar show don’t you want to like sneak in in at catcher a couple of times that uh I don’t know I
Mean maybe with just the injury risk I mean and and it’s also it’s like when you have Kevin kerm right his value goes down even more because you know he’s playing Left Field you know instead of you know primary but he still was like a
Four- win player as a you know 15% worse than the average hitter so that suggests that if you know he maintains defensive level and gets closer to average like he becomes you know a potential you know real stud and that’s and that’s that’s the path it feels like for the Blue Jays
Right it’s just internal Improvement you know you that’s a great point because like they have been the team that everybody’s like they’re going to be good they’re going to be good and and there they’re just short right they’re just short and and it’s oftentimes been their guys right like and monoa being
Obviously the most extreme example of this this season just sort of not being what you’d expect them to be so you know Vlad Guerrero Jr obviously one of those people um they didn’t settle on on a salary this year like the the fact that they could end up in some kind of
Hearing with this guy for for arbitration like think about how destructive that could be now I don’t I don’t think they’re filing trial team right I think they like they’ll probably keep negotiating because I think they did that with even like bashet last year but um you know the difference is
Something like a million and a half dollars right now so it it tells you just about like at least that sends a signal to me that um you know they have some of these feelings but vgo junor too like they see that like they’re not quite sure like what they’re going to
Get out of it whatever like you know I don’t know I mean SS sends a sign I’m going to read you Vlad Guerrero’s ops’s by season ready 772 791 a02 818 788 seems like now again he’s 24 years old right so like I’m not saying this is
The player he’s going to be I am suggesting when it was written that he was a better hitter than his father my brain exploded um now like he could be a 900,000 guy but what he is right now is not that and so they you know yeah it it
Could be you know like he’s he’s demonstrated who he is at this level it’s it’s kind of on him to level back up he’s shown it’s possible shown it’s possible to be both but he’s been one version four out of five times that’s all fair that’s all fair
And I think we’re going to end on that Dow note oh my my goodness no this this has been uh episode 80 of the Round Table episode 80 we’ll be back in a couple weeks see you then
1 Comment
When I started watching this episode of my favorite baseball podcast, my computer freaked out and shut off my displays, if that isn't a true mark of quality, I don't know what is